Salve collega,

I am afraid you are slightly overestimating your authority, excluding me from Tribunes. Will you please correct that mistake in your report?

Vale,

CORVVS
Still Tribunus plebis

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> C. Maria Caeca C. Aquilio Rotae Tribunis Plebis S. P. D.
>
> In this report, when reporting the votes you used abbreviations with which I am unfamiliar, and I read all tribunition repots carefully, and have done, since I became a citizen. I understand that "VR" is a "yes" vote, but what do the initials *after* the "VR" represent? Could you provide us with a list of these abbreviations and their meanings, so that we can better understand the actions of our Senate?
>
> Gratias tibi ago,
> Vale quam optime,
> C. Maria Caeca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XIII Kalendas Decembris; hic dies fastus est.

"Fabius immediately summoned his troops to assembly, and appealed to
them to show the same courage with which they had defended the
republic from a brave and determined foe in protecting from the
unrestrained ferocity of the Dictator the man under whose auspices and
generalship they had been victorious. He was coming, maddened by
jealousy, exasperated at another man's merits and good fortune,
furious because the republic had triumphed in his absence. If it were
in his power to change the fortune of the day, he would rather that
victory rested with the Samnites than with the Romans. He kept talking
about the contempt of orders as though the reason why he forbade all
fighting were not precisely the same as that which makes him vexed now
that we have fought. Then, prompted by jealousy, he wanted to suppress
the merits of others and deprive of their arms men who were most eager
to use them, so as to prevent their being employed in his absence; now
he is exasperated and furious because the soldiers were not crippled
or defenceless though L. Papirius was not with them, and because Q.
Fabius considered himself Master of the Horse and not the lacquey of
the Dictator. What would he have done if, as often happens amid the
chances of war, the battle had gone against us, seeing that now, after
the enemy has been thoroughly defeated and a victory won for the
republic which even under his unrivalled generalship could not have
been more complete, he is actually menacing the Master of the Horse
with punishment! He would, were it in his power, treat all with equal
severity, not only the Master of Horse but the military tribunes, the
centurions, the men of the rank and file. Jealousy, like lightning,
strikes the summits, and because he cannot reach all he has selected
one man as his victim whom he regards as the chief conspirator-your
general. If he should succeed in crushing him and quenching the
splendour of his success, he will treat this army as a victor treats
the vanquished and with the same ruthlessness which he has been
allowed to practice on the Master of the Horse. In defending his cause
they will be defending the liberty of all. If the Dictator sees that
the army is as united in guarding its victory as it was in fighting
for it, and that one man's safety is the common concern of all, he
will bring himself to a calmer frame of mind. His closing words were:
" I entrust my fortunes and my life to your fidelity and courage." His
words were greeted with universal shouts of approval. They told him
not to be dismayed or depressed, no man should harm him while the
legions of Rome were alive." - Livy, History of Rome 8.31


On this day in A.D. 1492, Christopher Columbus discovered Puerto Rico.


Today is the National Holiday of the Principality of Monaco. Hercules
was said to have passed through the area, and the founders of the
nearby Greek colony, the Phoceans, built him a "single temple"
("monoikos") to commemorate the event.

Monaco was re-founded in AD 1215 as a colony of Genoa, but has been
ruled by the House of Grimaldi since 1297, when Francois Grimaldi
seized the fortress protecting the famous rock while dressed up as a
Franciscan monk ("monaco" in Italian); the only exception to this was
from 1793 to 1814, when Monaco was under French control. Designated as
a protectorate of Sardinia from 1815 until 1860 by the Congress of
Vienna, Monaco's sovereignty was recognised by the Franco-Monegasque
Treaty of 1861. The Prince of Monaco was an absolute ruler until a
constitution was promulgated in 1911. In July 1918, a treaty was
signed providing for limited French protection over Monaco. The
treaty, written into the Treaty of Versailles, established that
Monegasque policy would be aligned with French political, military,
and economic interests.

Prince Rainier III acceded to the throne following the death of his
grandfather, Prince Louis II, in 1949. A new constitution, proclaimed
in 1962, abolished capital punishment, provided for female suffrage,
and established a Supreme Court to guarantee fundamental liberties. In
1993, Monaco became an official member of the United Nations with full
voting rights. In 2002, a new treaty between France and Monaco
clarifies that if there are no heirs to carry on the dynasty, the
Principality will remain an independent nation rather than revert to
the French. Monaco's military defense, however, is still the
responsibility of France.


Valete bene!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

>
> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>
> It is *exactly* the kind of mindset expressed by this "Anna" that undermine every real effort being made to re-create an atmosphere in which we can all work together.
>
> Perhaps she should peddle her animosity and useless antagonism elsewhere, because it has no place in our Respublica.
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>

Salve,

LOL, yea because all those months that I wasn't on the list everyone here was all sparkles and love.


Not.

I'm not your scapegoat, this "Cato".

Vale,

Anna Bucci

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius" <gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:

>
> Salve Anna,
>
> Why don't you just go away?
>

Salve,

I have no reason to. It's moot anyway since guests will no longer be allowed on the main list.


Vale,

Anna Bucci

Salvete omnes,

A BBC news report tells more about the excavations at Syon Park in West London.

You can read it here:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-11773202

At Syon Park, in Brentford, West London, close to the banks of the Thames, and on the main road between Londinium and Calleva Atrebatum (modern day Silchester) an extensive dig in advance of the building of a new Waldorf hotel has produced extensive finds.

After preservation, many of the finds will be displayed in the Museum of London. Others will be displayed in the new hotel.



Valete
Crispus

Lentulus Iuliae sal.


Please allow me to add some comment to your answers to Q. Maximus.

>>>> The biggest concern with the Ordo Equester is it becoming a Rich Citizens club. <<<<

As for me, I will very strongly fight against any attempt to create a "Rich Citizens Club" in Nova Roma. I oppose the idea with fervent resolution.

If we decide to ask a higher amount of tax from the equites (or from the First Class in general), besides the required century points, this amount should be as small as all citizens who are dedicated enough can pay it, so small that retired people, disabled persons or students can afford it.

The only acceptable highness of this equestrian tax should not exceed the 200% of the current basic tax rate.

What does it mean?

The current tax rates are calculated from the per-capita GDP of one's nation of residence, and they are the 1/2800 (the one two-thousand-eight-hundredth) of the per-capita GDP.

In the case of the USA or France, it is 16.00 USD.

The highest possible form of equestrian tax, in my proposal, would be its double, it means the equestrian tax would be the 1/1400 of your per-capita GDP.

In the case of the USA or France, it would be 32.00 USD.

So, hardly a Rich Citizens Club! No one can call himself a rich man, who can save 32$ for Nova Roma during one year. I have hardly any income this year, but I could afford it. And if anyone finds it too much, it can be even lower, but I am open even to skip the taxation factor from the proposal.

In my original proposal, however, I proposed that we lower the basic taxes, and the equestrian tax be the double of this lowered basic tax. In the example of USA, we would lower the plain assiduus tax from 16 USD to something like 10 USD, and the equestrian tax would be its double, 20 USD. That is also very social, very democratic, very fair to everyone.

But, hey, do we want the everyone become an equestrian? Not at all, what would be the point of an award if everyone gets it? What I want it is to open it to everyone, and to ensure that it is VERY FAIRLY accessible to everyone. But not to make it SO EASILY obtainable that 2 days after its establishment we would see every citizen had become an eques. It would add nothing to NR.

This is why I say: the ordo equester has to be very fairly accessible to all who strive for it, but it is not a problem if it requires some sacrifices. What sacrifices would it require? The price of 5-6 café? Or a price of an average book? The price of 3-4 pieces of cake?

If one really, really wants it, almost anyone can spare 2-3 dollars per month so that he can become an equestrian. It is not obligatory, but encouraged. It may very well happen, as Iulia points it out, that some one, like a homeless person, or like a very, very, very poor and disabled person, or a person who had serious disasters in his life, illness or other catastrophe, can not spare even 2-3 dollars per month. That would mean he can't pay the equestrian taxes. But everything, everywhere, works like this: it will not be their main problem to become a NR eques among so many tragedies and difficulties. But I think if that would be really their dream, they could find a way to pay the equestrian tax, just like as they have found a way to pay the plain, basic NR tax for the assiduus status.

There are people who can not pay even the assiduus taxes. Why aren't here daily protests against this? Do we think that it is fine to ask payment for assiduus status? And what about those ill people who can not pay their medication? Who lost their job, their house or their family, in the midst of a disaster? Is it still fair to maintain the assiduus tax payment system?

If we answer "yes", then why is it a problem to add a second level to that, for a similarly low amount of payment? Not everyone will pay that, but everyone could pay that. It is not a purpose that everyone become a first class citizen, but it is a purpose that the most dedicated persons become. Those who can renounce from a dinner for Nova Roma, even if they are very poor. I am very poor, though I'm sure there are a lot poorer persons than I am, but it is not rare that I can not eat lunch or dinner. But I would happily pay the double of my current taxes, although it does mean that I must renounce from things that would be necessary.

I am with full sympathy towards people who are in worse financial condition than I am, but I think everybody who really, really wants to be an equestrian, under the aegis of my proposal, *can* be. If not immediately, later surely.

>>> How many new citizens want to join and organization where they see that they will never be able to afford to become a knight? <<<<

Exaxtly! Exactly, Iulia, that's the point. This is the reason why I drafted my proposal in this way that the amount of money may not be a burden for anyone who wants to become a knight. 20-30 USD is affordable, and someone who REALLY wants it, he will pay it. Those who think NR is just a secondary thing in their lives, they will not pay it. Those who are in the middle of a life tragedy, will not pay it, but they will not do many other things, either. If my house had been burn, my equestrian status would not be a primary concern, I think. After I had arranged my life into its normal, happier course, I would take care of my equestrian taxes. Equestrian status is not equal to be a man of honor or good Roman. It is just a title, and it is NOT NECESSARY to have in order to be a good and honorable citizen. It is laudable to strive for it, but if somebody is in a major life crisis, perhaps he can be more patient with his Nova Roman equestrian status. Once he is
safe, he can collect 20-30 dollars for the next year. And of course, he will need the century points, too! So that's not about money.

I can not imagine we are worrying about these 20-30 dollars. I have a suspicion that the worry here is about a future raising of this 20-30 dollars up to 100-200 or 500 dollars. If you are afraid of this, I can tell you I am afraid of this thought as well. That would mean the death of Nova Roma, and the only reason why I am quite positive that this could not happen it is the certainty that our people would protest like wolves or lions. I would fight like a dragon against such insane idea.

I am quite sure, the equestrian (or first class) tax would remain always low, always so low that a student, a retired or a disabled person can pay it. Otherwise the system, and Nova Roma, too, would collapse.

Omnibus s.d.

A reminder for all.

Candidacies expected, if you consider filling the requirements ! :-)

Valete !


P. Memmius Albucius cos.



From: albucius_aoe@...
To: novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com
CC: nrmagistrates@yahoogroups.com; conventvs_gvbernatorvm@yahoogroups.com; nova-roma@yahoogroups.com; praetores@yahoogroups.com; cn_corn_lent@...
Subject: Curule, qu. and vigint. ELECTIONS for 2764 - CALL for CANDIDATES
Date: Fri, 12 Nov 2010 15:28:00 +0100




CALL FOR CANDIDATES FOR THE CURULE, QUAEST. AND VIGINT. MAGISTRACIES FOR 2011
(ed. Memmium de petitione magistratuus curulium quaestorium et vigintisexvirorum 2764 auc)



In view of the various laws of Nova Roma organizing the electoral process and the conditions to lay, receive, examine and accept a candidacy ;


In view of the senatus consultum ultimum on the electoral legal system issued a.d. III Idus Nov. 2763 (Nov. 11, 2010), and authorizing the consul maior �to modify, by edictum, the current legislation relative to the electoral system of Nova Roma (tools, proceedings, etc.) in order to adapt it to the creation of an electoral system which, as simple and efficient as possible, will allow Nova Roma institutions, and specially its comitia, to go on working normally without the assistance of the current IT system.�


I, P. Memmius Albucius consul of Nova Roma,



Article 1 : hereby call for candidacies to the curule, quaestorial and vigintisexviri magistracies for next year 2764 auc. The Plebeian magistracies will be naturally the matter of a special call, issued by our Tribunes of the Plebs. The election day(s) will be set later.



Article 2 : remind that the magistrates concerned by the present call shall be elected by the Comitia Centuriata and Populi Tributa and shall enter in office on next Kalends of January (Jan. 1, 2011). The concerned magistracies are the following ones : censor (1 open position) ; consul (2 pos.), praetors (2), aediles (2), quaestors (8), rogators (2), diribitors (4).




Article 3 : remind the mandatory requirements that must be fulfilled by any candidate :


3.1. to confirm, with no ambiguity and no later than next a.d. IV Kal. Dec. 2763 (28 November 2010), 17:00 hrs Rome time, her/his intention to stand for office at the address albucius_aoe at hotmail dot com in order to be placed on the ballot. This confirmation shall include in addition :
- the word "candidate" in the subject of the message ;
- the candidate's full Nova Roman name
- the magistracy for which the candidacy is laid.


Every candidacy which would have not respected the above rules shall be considered as void.


3.2. in addition to be :
- at the present date a citizen of Nova Roma ;
- a citizen �in good standing for at least six months� before the entry in office, i.e. at least since pridie Kal. Quint. 2763 (June 30, 2010) ;
- assidu -a/us at the present date.


3.3. Every candidate running for the following magistracies shall be at least, on next Kal. Ian. 2764 auc (Jan. 1, 2011) :


- censor or consul : 27 years old ;
- praetor : 25 y.o. ;
- others : 21 y.o..


3.4. Every candidate running for CENSOR or CONSUL or PRAETOR shall have served at least, on next Kal. Ian. 2764 auc (Jan. 1, 2011), six months as one of the following magistrate : consul, praetor, aedilis, quaestor, tribunus plebis, magister aranearius, editor commentariorum, rogator, or provincial governor.




Article 4 : recommend the citizens, whose availability and motivation would not be adapted to the magistracy for which they would intend to run, to well ponder their decision before laying their candidacy, being reminded that a derelict or failing magistrate may be suspended or removed.


Article 5 � The magistrates and officers of Nova Roma are charged of the good execution of the present senatus consultum, which shall be applicable from its publication on, and be included in the Tabularium Nova Romae (Senate section).



Edictum pridie Idus Novembres P. Memmio Albucio K. Fabio Buteoni Quintiliano (II) coss. 2763 auc..


P. Memmius Albucius
cos. maior

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

can not imagine we are worrying about these 20-30 dollars. I have a suspicion that the worry here is about a future raising of this 20-30 dollars up to 100-200 or 500 dollars. If you are afraid of this, I can tell you I am afraid of this thought as well. That would mean the death of Nova Roma, and the only reason why I am quite positive that this could not happen it is the certainty that our people would protest like wolves or lions. I would fight like a dragon against such insane idea.







Cornelius, you do realize that one can conduct trade in Nova Roma without being a member?
All you lose is 7 CPS. So, the class membership is not required by the constitution.

I believe the Senate will set fair rates, yet ones that will aid the republic. I cannot see 500.00 USD being the rate.

Vale

Q. Fabius Maximus
candidate for Praetor




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

$500.00? I can't even see any members of the Senate paying that amount and
lets face the fact that when it comes to setting examples for higher tax
amounts it should be those of us in the Senate who should bear that burden.


Respectfully,

Sulla

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Q. Fabius Maximus <QFabiusMaxmi@...>wrote:

>
>
>
>
> can not imagine we are worrying about these 20-30 dollars. I have a
> suspicion that the worry here is about a future raising of this 20-30
> dollars up to 100-200 or 500 dollars. If you are afraid of this, I can tell
> you I am afraid of this thought as well. That would mean the death of Nova
> Roma, and the only reason why I am quite positive that this could not happen
> it is the certainty that our people would protest like wolves or lions. I
> would fight like a dragon against such insane idea.
>
> Cornelius, you do realize that one can conduct trade in Nova Roma without
> being a member?
> All you lose is 7 CPS. So, the class membership is not required by the
> constitution.
>
> I believe the Senate will set fair rates, yet ones that will aid the
> republic. I cannot see 500.00 USD being the rate.
>
> Vale
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
> candidate for Praetor
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar sal.

Some members of the Senate wouldn't want to pay 500 cents. No one is suggesting $500 dollars.
 
Optime valete

--- On Fri, 11/19/10, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:


From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: ORDO EQUESTER - The Solution Needed
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 19, 2010, 12:38 PM


Ave!

$500.00? I can't even see any members of the Senate paying that amount and
lets face the fact that when it comes to setting examples for higher tax
amounts it should be those of us in the Senate who should bear that burden.


Respectfully,

Sulla

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Q. Fabius Maximus <QFabiusMaxmi@...>wrote:

>
>
>
>
> can not imagine we are worrying about these 20-30 dollars. I have a
> suspicion that the worry here is about a future raising of this 20-30
> dollars up to 100-200 or 500 dollars. If you are afraid of this, I can tell
> you I am afraid of this thought as well. That would mean the death of Nova
> Roma, and the only reason why I am quite positive that this could not happen
> it is the certainty that our people would protest like wolves or lions. I
> would fight like a dragon against such insane idea.
>
> Cornelius, you do realize that one can conduct trade in Nova Roma without
> being a member?
> All you lose is 7 CPS. So, the class membership is not required by the
> constitution.
>
> I believe the Senate will set fair rates, yet ones that will aid the
> republic. I cannot see 500.00 USD being the rate.
>
> Vale
>
> Q. Fabius Maximus
> candidate for Praetor
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Amice,

Oh, we had some who did not pay at all for years. Hopefully that trend will
be ending quickly, at the least. The Senate still should set an example for
paying taxes and paying a higher amount than the typical citizen, in my
honest opinion.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:47 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

>
>
> Caesar sal.
>
> Some members of the Senate wouldn't want to pay 500 cents. No one is
> suggesting $500 dollars.
>
> Optime valete
>
> --- On Fri, 11/19/10, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...<robert.woolwine%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...<robert.woolwine%40gmail.com>
> >
> Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: ORDO EQUESTER - The Solution Needed
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Friday, November 19, 2010, 12:38 PM
>
>
> Ave!
>
> $500.00? I can't even see any members of the Senate paying that amount and
> lets face the fact that when it comes to setting examples for higher tax
> amounts it should be those of us in the Senate who should bear that burden.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 12:34 PM, Q. Fabius Maximus <QFabiusMaxmi@...<QFabiusMaxmi%40aol.com>
> >wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > can not imagine we are worrying about these 20-30 dollars. I have a
> > suspicion that the worry here is about a future raising of this 20-30
> > dollars up to 100-200 or 500 dollars. If you are afraid of this, I can
> tell
> > you I am afraid of this thought as well. That would mean the death of
> Nova
> > Roma, and the only reason why I am quite positive that this could not
> happen
> > it is the certainty that our people would protest like wolves or lions. I
> > would fight like a dragon against such insane idea.
> >
> > Cornelius, you do realize that one can conduct trade in Nova Roma without
> > being a member?
> > All you lose is 7 CPS. So, the class membership is not required by the
> > constitution.
> >
> > I believe the Senate will set fair rates, yet ones that will aid the
> > republic. I cannot see 500.00 USD being the rate.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Q. Fabius Maximus
> > candidate for Praetor
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Maria Caeca omnibus in foro S. P. D.

Having read the proposal by Cn. Cornelius Pontifex very carefully, and
having asked and graciously received clarification on some points of
concern, I can say that I think this is an idea of considerable merit, that
it has the potential to benefit the Res Publica in many ways, and that I
hope it will be actively pursued. I also hope that, at this point, we don't
become quagmired in details. We can refine, add, change and amend ...but in
my opinion, the concept is sound. No, this might not be for everyone
...although, as it is currently define, it *could* be, in the vast majority
of cases. Yes, it will mean that those who want to work toward this goal
will need to work, and pay, more ...and, frankly, I see no problem with
that, so long as the requirements are: 1. Attainable, and 2. Administered
scrupulously. Both are eminently possible, I think, and I, for one hope to
see this presented to the Senate, if that is required, and to the Comitia
this coming year.

Valete quam optime,
C. Maria Caeca

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Can I break this down into its simplest form?

Cornelius Lentulus seems to be suggesting an Ordo Equester consisting of two parts:

1. knights of the private horse - citizens who voluntarily pay a certain amount above and beyond their yearly tax and are awarded a knighthood based on that payment, and

2. knights of the public horse - citizens who, by exhibiting work for the Respublica and/or by gaining century points, are awarded a knighthood by the censors in recognition of their service.

If I am correct, then this is what I would most definitely support.

The subsequent ideas: senators paying a higher tax rate, etc., are superfluous to this basic idea, although I happen to agree that senators should pay a higher tax rate, perhaps double that of citizens.

Vale,

Cato

Caeca Catoni sal,

In order to be admitted into the Ordo, citizens would have to meet 2 requirements: 1. they would have to pay a certain amount above the general tax rate each year, and 2. They would have to have acquired a specific minimum number of century points. This is true of both the private and public sections of the Ordo, not just the public.

Vale bene,
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes Cives;

I have read over the entire discussion thus far and I see it as a
proposal worthy of implementing. Roma Antiqua had social
stratification, within the Republican system, and I think it worked
well until the "New Men" got theirs hands on the reins of power.

I most certainly have accrued the Century (alias Censor) Points to
become a "Public Horse." ;-) I could most certainly afford to "pony
up" and become a "Private Horse," as well.

Perhaps a modification of the Tax multiplier is in order, to help effect this?

How about a pair of nice round numbers?

1/3000th of a nation's average family income, in light of the national
GDP, for the base Tax? (Large nations could be broken down regionally
if said government publishes such figures.)

1/1000th...Equity Tax rate.

In example...the nation of Marsica has an average family income of US
$30,000, with a GDP that places the country well within the norm for
developed nations. The Base Rate would be US $10 and the Equity Rate
would be US $30.

Just across the mountainous border, their neighbor Samnitia has a
better national GDP, but because of the larger population, the average
family income is US $24,000. Their base rate would be US $8 and the
Equity Rate would be US $24.

...and so on.

The main Asatru organization to which I belong has a tiered dues
structure. Base is US $25 per annum; I pay US $120, plus I normally
donate at least that over the course of the year, each quarter. Other
organizations to which I belong have similar dues structures.

I do hold Life Memberships in 2 Masonic bodies (my "Home Lodge" in
Nebraska and in the Scottish Rite [Southern Jurisdiction]). I am also
a Life member in the US National Rifle Association and in the Law
Enforcement Association of America. My wife, Marca Annia Megas, is a
life member of the NRA, the US Naval Instutute and an Electrical
Engineering society.

Each of these is able to provide tangible benefits in return for the
Life Membership; monthly print magazines, insurance group rates,
discounts on auto rentals, large annual conventions, symposia and
other such...

Nova Roma does not, and I (unfortunately) think we will not, for the
foreseeable future. So, I would not be in favor of a Nova Roma for
Life membership at this point.

--
In amicitia et fide
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Civis et Poeta

Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

(sites subject to occasional updates)
http://www.facebook.com/p.ullerius.stfnus.venator
http://nrfb.korsoft.com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/

Cn. Iulius Caesar sal.
 
A year ago I had a discussion paper uploaded into the files section of this list. It dealt with the Ordo, amongst other things, and having looked into this at some length my conclusion was that it could not be dealt with effectively in a framented manner. Not only do we need to address the Ordo, but the whole way in which business is conducted, and the system of century points. The Ordo is one small part of a much greater whole.
 
If we make decisions of this magnitude by reference to one part of the puzzle, other than the current housekeeping that was addressed in the Senate in relation to the Ordo, then we risk creating an effective independent aspect, but an utterly imperfect dependent part of the whole.
 
There is more to this issue than just deciding on who joins the Ordo and under what conditions, and those alrger issues must be addressed first in order to ensure that there is no inconsistency in any part of the proposed design.
 
Optime valete.

--- On Fri, 11/19/10, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:


From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: ORDO EQUESTER - The Solution Needed
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 19, 2010, 3:56 PM


Salvete Omnes Cives;

I have read over the entire discussion thus far and I see it as a
proposal worthy of implementing.  Roma Antiqua had social
stratification, within the Republican system, and I think it worked
well until the "New Men" got theirs hands on the reins of power.

I most certainly have accrued the Century (alias Censor) Points to
become a "Public Horse." ;-)  I could most certainly afford to "pony
up" and become a "Private Horse," as well.

Perhaps a modification of the Tax multiplier is in order, to help effect this?

How about a pair of nice round numbers?

1/3000th of a nation's average family income, in light of the national
GDP, for the base Tax?  (Large nations could be broken down regionally
if said government publishes such figures.)

1/1000th...Equity Tax rate.

In example...the nation of Marsica has an average family income of US
$30,000, with a GDP that places the country well within the norm for
developed nations.  The Base Rate would be US $10 and the Equity Rate
would be US $30.

Just across the mountainous border, their neighbor Samnitia has a
better national GDP, but because of the larger population, the average
family income is US $24,000.  Their base rate would be US $8 and the
Equity Rate would be US $24.

...and so on.

The main Asatru organization to which I belong has a tiered dues
structure.  Base is US $25 per annum; I pay US $120, plus I normally
donate at least that over the course of the year, each quarter.  Other
organizations to which I belong have similar dues structures.

I do hold Life Memberships in 2 Masonic bodies (my "Home Lodge" in
Nebraska and in the Scottish Rite [Southern Jurisdiction]).  I am also
a Life member in the US National Rifle Association and in the Law
Enforcement Association of America.  My wife, Marca Annia Megas, is a
life member of the NRA, the US Naval Instutute and an Electrical
Engineering society.

Each of these is able to provide tangible benefits in return for the
Life Membership; monthly print magazines, insurance group rates,
discounts on auto rentals, large annual conventions, symposia and
other such...

Nova Roma does not, and I (unfortunately) think we will not, for the
foreseeable future.  So, I would not be in favor of a Nova Roma for
Life membership at this point.

--
In amicitia et fide
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Civis et Poeta

Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

(sites subject to occasional updates)
http://www.facebook.com/p.ullerius.stfnus.venator
http://nrfb.korsoft.com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve et Salvete;

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 6:11 PM, Gn Iulius Caesar wrote:
>
> Cn. Iulius Caesar sal.
>
> A year ago I had a discussion paper uploaded into the files section of this list. It dealt with the Ordo, amongst other things, and having looked into this at some length my conclusion was that it could not be dealt with effectively in a framented manner. Not only do we need to address the Ordo, but the whole way in which business is conducted, and the system of century points. The Ordo is one small part of a much greater whole.
>
> If we make decisions of this magnitude by reference to one part of the puzzle, other than the current housekeeping that was addressed in the Senate in relation to the Ordo, then we risk creating an effective independent aspect, but an utterly imperfect dependent part of the whole.
>
> There is more to this issue than just deciding on who joins the Ordo and under what conditions, and those alrger issues must be addressed first in order to ensure that there is no inconsistency in any part of the proposed design.
>
> Optime valete.
>

I see your point about treating the entire patient rather than just
the head cold. We might cure the cold, but miss the lung tumor.

However, I think the Ordo proposal to be a good launching point.

bene Vale - Venii

Q Caecilius Metellus C Aquilio Rotae salutem dicit.

Salue, Tribune Rota.

While I thank you for reporting to the People the results of the
Senate session, there are a number of items whose content goes yet
unknown. Thus, I must ask what the text is of the items now passed by
the Senate, specifically Items III, VI, and VIII. I thank you in
advance for your swift response.

Cum Populo sit Fortuna Bona.

Salvete,

It has also, traditionally, been the custom to include the comments of Senators which were submitted with their votes. Seeing those is also helpful, I think.

Valete,
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Mariae Caecae Iuli Caesari Ullerio Venatori Cornelio Lentulo omnibusque in foro SPD

Iulius Caesar, point well taken; there may be a total overhaul necessary of the century point system as it stands, this is true.

Following on Ullerius Venator's point, however, my feeling is that if we make the century point system useful for something that citizens can see and feel immediately, not just as some obscure arithmetical formula by which votes are tabulated it can only do good, if only psychologically.

Which brings me to your observation, Maria Caeca. If Cornelius Lentulus is willing to adjust his concept slightly, could we not adopt something more along the lines of what I was thinking he meant? To re-iterate:

1. knights of the private horse - citizens who voluntarily pay a certain amount above and beyond their yearly tax and are awarded a knighthood based on that payment, and

2. knights of the public horse - citizens who, by exhibiting work for the Respublica and/or by gaining century points, are awarded a knighthood by the censors in recognition of their service.

This serves several points. It makes a knighthood available to *any* citizen, regardless of their income, as reward for service to the Respublica; in fact, being honored as a public horse (or should that be "with a public horse"?) is a greater achievement than simply ponying up (pun intended) a little extra cash.

Iulia Aquila's and Petronius Dexter's concerns regarding equalities among citizens are somewhat valid, to a certain extent, but I remain convinced that the ancient Romans would have utterly ridiculed the idea that flaunting wealth was somehow unseemly, as several of them nearly bankrupted themselves to give games and spectacles and to build public buildings while in office precisely to show just how much money they were willing to spend.

Yet this dual system of knighthoods would answer their concerns, I think, rather neatly; again, the public horse - the greater honor, to my mind - would actually require only time and work, not money.

It revives ancient Roman custom but with more accessibility to all citizens.

Valete bene,

Cato

Caesar Catoni sal.

Your point about the century points is spot on amice. Again, as I know since you read my paper, reforming the point system from a simple allocation of points for saying "yes" to serving in unelected positions, and for being elected, forms one of the core objectives I proposed. Points should be awarded for work done that advances the goals of Nova Roma, be it through official projects sponsored by the Senate or through private enterprise and creativity.

Simply tinkering with the Ordo, or even a wholsesale resign that Lentulus proposes, will still mean that we fail to address related issues. These include, establishing a method for promotimg, sponsoring and finally creating new projects, encouraging trade within Nova Roma, not just of goods, but of services. These need to be debated, discussed, mulled over and evaluated. I am all for action, but measured and planned, as I know you are too.

Optime vale

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Catoni sal.

Your point about the century points is spot on amice. Again, as I know since you read my paper, reforming the point system from a simple allocation of points for saying "yes" to serving in unelected positions, and for being elected, forms one of the core objectives I proposed. Points should be awarded for work done that advances the goals of Nova Roma, be it through official projects sponsored by the Senate or through private enterprise and creativity.

Simply tinkering with the Ordo, or even a wholsesale resign that Lentulus proposes, will still mean that we fail to address related issues. These include, establishing a method for promotimg, sponsoring and finally creating new projects, encouraging trade within Nova Roma, not just of goods, but of services. These need to be debated, discussed, mulled over and evaluated. I am all for action, but measured and planned, as I know you are too.

Optime vale

--- On Fri, 11/19/10, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

> From: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: ORDO EQUESTER - The Solution Needed
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Friday, November 19, 2010, 7:04 PM
> Cato Mariae Caecae Iuli Caesari
> Ullerio Venatori Cornelio Lentulo omnibusque in foro SPD
>
> Iulius Caesar, point well taken; there may be a total
> overhaul necessary of the century point system as it stands,
> this is true. 
>
> Following on Ullerius Venator's point, however, my feeling
> is that if we make the century point system useful for
> something that citizens can see and feel immediately, not
> just as some obscure arithmetical formula by which votes are
> tabulated it can only do good, if only psychologically.
>
> Which brings me to your observation, Maria Caeca.  If
> Cornelius Lentulus is willing to adjust his concept
> slightly, could we not adopt something more along the lines
> of what I was thinking he meant?  To re-iterate:
>
> 1. knights of the private horse - citizens who voluntarily
> pay a certain amount above and beyond their yearly tax and
> are awarded a knighthood based on that payment, and
>
> 2. knights of the public horse - citizens who, by
> exhibiting work for the Respublica and/or by gaining century
> points, are awarded a knighthood by the censors in
> recognition of their service.
>
> This serves several points.  It makes a knighthood
> available to *any* citizen, regardless of their income, as
> reward for service to the Respublica; in fact, being honored
> as a public horse (or should that be "with a public horse"?)
> is a greater achievement than simply ponying up (pun
> intended) a little extra cash.
>
> Iulia Aquila's and Petronius Dexter's concerns regarding
> equalities among citizens are somewhat valid, to a certain
> extent, but I remain convinced that the ancient Romans would
> have utterly ridiculed the idea that flaunting wealth was
> somehow unseemly, as several of them nearly bankrupted
> themselves to give games and spectacles and to build public
> buildings while in office precisely to show just how much
> money they were willing to spend.
>
> Yet this dual system of knighthoods would answer their
> concerns, I think, rather neatly;  again, the public
> horse - the greater honor, to my mind - would actually
> require only time and work, not money.
>
> It revives ancient Roman custom but with more accessibility
> to all citizens.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

Caeca Catoni Sal,

No. I, not that it matters, will support nothing that allows anyone to simply buy their way into anything. The award of the public horse by the Censors for special meritorious service, along with having to meet both requirements seems to me an excellent way to reward those citizens who, over the years, have demonstrated their willingness to make not only monetary contributions, but contributions in time, effort and service. In addition, the way Lentulus Pontifex has constructed this system, it would be harder to either abuse or manipulate, based as it is on not one, but several inter-related factors.

Vale,
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Dexter omnibus forensibus s.p.d.,

> It revives ancient Roman custom but with more accessibility to all citizens.

We are not ancient Roman citizens. We have rights and visions of men and women more in progress. We have to be opponent to the slavery as to the ordo equester too.

Ancient Roman customs have to show us what we must avoid. From the lessons of the past we have to build our future.

Why am I against division based on money? Not because I am poor. I am not poor and I can without problem to pay a yearly $1000 fee. You know that the founders of the "socialism" were not from the poorer citizens but were from the middle class for the least and some of them were riches or "bourgeois".

For me it is not a problem of money in itself.
It is a principle.

Dividing people into classes or orders is not efficient.

First class. Senators.
If a senator must to pay a higher tax than another citizen, bit by bit he only see his own interests and not the interest of all the community.

Second class. Equites.
Equites will pay higher taxes than other citizens and lower than senators. Them too will act in the interests of their own class against the senators and against the people.

Third class.
A) cives assidui.
They will pay the normal taxes. They will have les and less access to the magistracies. They will loose the access to the Senate, because the will not want to pay higher taxes. And by this way, a sort of selection by money is made and statued.

B) Cives capite censi.
They have no rights, they are here for the decor. Put on 4 urban tribes and in the century 51. But they are the majority of our citizens!

In my opinion all this manner to divide the citizens is to avoid.

For Patricians and Plebeians division, Valerius Poplicola gave his opinion. For me this division is not very dangerous and it is a religious division. The plebs has his tribunes and ediles to prevent any Patrician coup. But nobody of the third class has any magistrate against senators and the future equites... who will have bit by bit more and more interests for themselves.

If we create divisions based on money, as the human nature seems to push some of us, we need to create a counter power as Plebeians did against Patricians.

We also have the divisons in centuries and tribes. Those divisions are not dangerous because they are not based on concurrence nor for struggle between them.

My fellow citizens, we know by experience and by history that the divisions based on the money are not interesting nor fair, it is a division known in all of our macronations, and we all know that this division never gave good things for the majority but real good only for a smaller majority.

Now you have to choose if you want to put the first step on these divisions. Lentulus is right, in his opinion we are not now where I make my focus, but the first step does not give an idea of all the scale. Fortunately, we have the lessons of the History to know the following steps.

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XII Kalendas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis to all Plebeian assidui:

Only 1 tribune of the plebs candidate is now known.
5 positions are open.
None candidate for plebeian edile with 2 positions open.

Is she Nova Roma dead?

Optime valete.

Copy:
--------------------------------------------------------------


Ex officio Tribunorum Plebis.

A call for Candidates is hereby issued for the offices of Tribuni Plebis and Aediles Plebis. The elected candidates will have their terms of office
begin AVC 2763 a.d. IV Idus Dec. (10 December 2010). Any and all Assidui Plebeian Citizens who wish to serve the Respublica and the People
for the next year shall:

( I ) declare their candidacy to the current Tribuni Plebis at the email address:
jfarnoud94ATyahooDOTfr
and
( II ) announce their intention to run for office before the Comitia Plebis Tributa:
ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com

Announcements of candidacy for these offices that are made to any other official Nova Roma lists are allowed but will not meet the requirements
needed to be recognized as a candidate. All who seek candidacy MUST post their announcement to the Comitia Plebis Tributa.

Eligibility Requirements:
Tribunus Plebis - (V positions available) -
Candidates must be Cives in good standing for at least six full months before taking office; members of the Plebeian Ordo, Assidui today (12
Nov. 2010), and at least 25 years of age by AUC MMDCCLXIII a.d. IV Idus Dec (10 Dec 2010).

NOTE: An exception to the age requirement can be found in the Lex Iunia de Magistratum Aetate.
Aedilis Plebis - (II positions available) -

Candidates must be Cives in good standing for at least six full months before taking office; members of the Plebeian Ordo, Assidui today (12
Nov. 2010), and at least 21 years of age by AUC MMDCCLXIII a.d. IV Idus Dec (10 Dec. 2010). Candidates for Aedilis Plebis must also have
served at least six months as a Tribunus Plebis, Quaestor, Magister Aranearius, Editor Commentariorum, or Provincial Gubenator; or that they
have served as a scribe to one of the current Aediles Plebis for at least six months.

Time Limits for Declaring Candidacy:
Announcements of candidacy before the Comitia Plebis Tributa and declaration of candidacy to the Tribuni Plebis must be received no later than
23.59 CET 25 Nov (before midnight at Rome being 6:00 p.m. EDT or 3:00 p.m. PDT, AUC MMDCCLXIII (2010 Gregorian).

NOTE: If less than the five lawfully qualified candidates for Tribunes or two lawfully qualified candidates for Plebeian Aediles have announced
their candidacies before the dead-line, then the remaining vacancies can be filled under the terms of the Lex Grylla de Securandis Magistratus
Plebis.

Datum sub manu mea pridie Idus Novembres P. Memmio Albucio K. Fabio Buteone Quintiliano iterum consulibus, anno Vrbis conditae
MMDCCLXIII.

C. Petronius Dexter
Tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
Pridie Idus Novembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Tribuni Plebis
C. Petronius Dexter
M. Octavius Corvus
C. Aquillius Rota



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Mariae Caecae Petronio Dextero Iulio Caesari omnibusque in foro SPD

OK. I've heard sound reasoning and some things to consider for a bit. It seems as if we all agree that merit should be the fundamental element of any new system; this is common ground from which we can work.

Valete bene,

Cato

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XII Kalendas Decembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"Not long after this the Dictator appeared, and at once ordered the
trumpet to sound the Assembly. When silence was restored an usher
summoned Q. Fabius, the Master of the Horse. He advanced and stood
immediately below the Dictator's tribunal. The Dictator began:
'Quintus Fabius, inasmuch as the Dictator possesses supreme authority,
to which the consuls who exercise the old kingly power, and the
praetors who are elected under the same auspices as the consuls alike
submit, I ask you whether or not you think it right and fitting that
the Master of the Horse should bow to that authority? Further, I ask
you whether as I was aware that I had left the City under doubtful
auspices I ought to have jeopardized the safety of the republic in the
face of this religious difficulty, or whether I ought to have taken
the auspices afresh and so avoided any action till the pleasure of the
gods was known? I should also like to know whether, if a religious
impediment prevents the Dictator from acting, the Master of the Horse
is at liberty to consider himself free and unhampered by such
impediment? But why am I putting these questions? Surely, if I had
gone away without leaving any orders, you ought to have used your
judgment in interpreting my wishes and acted accordingly. Answer me
this, rather: Did I forbid you to take any action in my absence? Did I
forbid you to engage the enemy? In contempt of my orders, whilst the
auspices were still indecisive and the sanctions of religion withheld,
you dared to give battle, in defiance of all the military custom and
discipline of our ancestors, in defiance of the will of the gods.
Answer the questions put to you, but beware of uttering a single word
about anything else. Lictor, stand by him!'

Fabius found it far from easy to reply to each question in detail, and
protested against the same man being both accuser and judge in a
matter of life and death. He exclaimed that it would be easier to
deprive him of his life than of the glory he had won, and went on to
exculpate himself and bring charges against the Dictator. Papirius in
a fresh outburst of rage ordered the Master of the Horse to be
stripped and the rods and axes to be got ready. Fabius appealed to the
soldiers for help, and as the lictors began to tear off his clothes,
he retreated behind the triarii who were now raising a tumult. Their
shouts were taken up through the whole concourse, threats and
entreaties were heard everywhere. Those nearest the tribunal, who
could be recognised as being within view of the Dictator implored him
to spare the Master of the Horse and not with him to condemn the whole
army; those furthest off and the men who had closed round Fabius
reviled the Dictator as unfeeling and merciless. Matters were rapidly
approaching a mutiny. Even those on the tribunal did not remain quiet;
the staff officers who were standing round the Dictator's chair begged
him to adjourn the proceedings to the following day to allow his anger
to cool and give time for quiet consideration. They urged that the
youthful spirit of Fabius had been sufficiently chastened and his
victory sufficiently sullied; they begged him not to push his
punishment to extremities or to brand with ignominy not only a youth
of exceptional merit but also his distinguished father and the whole
Fabian house. When they found their arguments and entreaties alike
unavailing, they asked him to look at the angry multitude in front. To
add fire to men whose tempers were already inflamed and to provide the
materials for a mutiny was, they said, unworthy of a man of his age
and experience. If a mutiny did occur, no one would throw the blame of
it upon Q. Fabius, who was only deprecating punishment; the sole
responsibility would lie on the Dictator for having in his blind
passion provoked the multitude to a deplorable struggle with him. And
as a final argument they declared that to prevent him from supposing
that they were actuated by any personal feeling in favour of Fabius,
they were prepared to state on oath that they considered the
infliction of punishment on Fabius under present circumstances to be
detrimental to the interests of the State." - Livy, History of Rome 8.31



"Quickly, Demeter let the corn grow up from the fertile fields,
and the broad earth was weighed down with leaves and flowers.
But she, going to the law-giving kings, showed to them – to
Triptolemus and to Diocles, driver of horses, to strong Eumolpus and
to Keleus, leader of his people – the rituals of her worship, and
instituted secret rites for all of them." - Homeric Hymn to Demeter

"But after Praetextatus, who held the office of proconsul in Greece,
declared that this law would make the life of the Greeks unliveable,
if they were prevented from properly observing the most sacred
Mysteries, which hold the whole human race together, he permitted the
entire rite to be performed in the manner inherited from the ancestors
as if the edict were not valid." - Zosimus, Historia Nova IV.33

"...but these things are small: you, a pious initiate of the holy
mysteries, grasp hiddenly the discoveries of the mind; and manifoldly
learned, you cultivate the divine numen." - from the Epitaph of
Paulina to Praetextaus

"To the gods of the dead. Vettius Agorius Praetextatus, augur, priest
of Vesta, priest of the Sun, quindecemvir, curialis of Hercules,
initiate of Liber and the Eleusinian [mysteries], hierophant,
neocorus, tauroboliatus, father of fathers. In public office imperial
quaestor, praetor of Rome, governor of Tuscia and Umbria, governor of
Lusitania, proconsul of Achaia, praefect of Rome, senatorial legate on
seven missions, prefect of the praetorian guard twice in Italy and
Illyrica, consul ordinarius elect, and Aconia Fabia Paulina, initiate
of Ceres and the Eleusinian [mysteries], initiate of Hecate at Aegina,
tauroboliata, hierophant. They lived together for 40 years." - from
the tomb of Paulina and Praetextatus

Today is dedicated to Paulina and Praetextatus, two gaurdians of the
Eleusinian Mysteries who, in AD 364, defied the order of the emperor
Valentinian I to suppress the practice of the Mysteries, and continued
them for another 20 years.

The Mysteries were based on a story revolving around Demeter. Her
daughter, Persephone, was kidnapped by Hades, the god of death and the
underworld. Demeter was the goddess of life, agriculture and
fertility. She neglected her duties while searching for her daughter;
causing a dry season (summer in Greece) in which people starved—
today, we associate this with the first winter. During this time
Demeter taught the secrets of agriculture to Triptolemus. Finally
Demeter was reunited with her daughter and the earth came back to
life— the first spring. (For more information on this story, see
Demeter.) Persephone was unfortunately unable to stay permanently in
the land of the living, because she had eaten six seeds of a
pomegranate that Hades had given her. Those that eat the food of the
dead may not return. A compromise was worked out and Persephone stayed
with Hades for one third of the year (winter, as the Greeks only
recognized three seasons, skipping autumn) and with her mother the
remaining eight months. The Eleusinian Mysteries celebrated
Persephone's return, for it was also the return of plants and of life
to the earth. She had eaten the six pomegranate seeds (symbols of
lives) while in the underworld (underground, like seeds in the winter)
and her rebirth is therefore symbolic of the rebirth of all plant life
during the spring and, by extension, all life on earth.

There were two Eleusinian Mysteries: the Greater and the Lesser. The
Lesser Mysteries were held in Anthesterion (March) (the exact time was
not always fixed and changed occasionally, unlike the Greater
Mysteries). The priests purified the candidates for initiation myesis.
They first sacrificed a pig to Demeter and then purified themselves.
The Greater Mysteries took place in Boedromion (the first month of the
Attic calendar) and lasted nine days. The first act (14th Boedromion)
of the Greater Mysteries was the bringing of the sacred objects from
Eleusis to the Eleusinion, a temple at the base of the Acropolis.

The Roman emperor Theodosius I finally closed the sanctuaries by
decree in AD 392 in an effort to destroy pagan resistance to the
imposition of Christianity as a state religion. The last remnants of
the Mysteries were wiped out in 396, when Alaric, King of the
Goths, invaded accompanied by Christians "in their dark garments",
bringing Arian Christianity and desecrating the old sacred sites. The
closing of the Eleusinian Mysteries in the 4th century is reported by
Eunapios, a historian and biographer of the Greek philosophers.
Eunapios had been initiated by the last legitimate Hierophant, who had
been commissioned by the emperor Julian to restore the Mysteries,
which had fallen into decay. The very last Hierophant was a usurper,
"the man from Thespiai who held the rank of Father in the mysteries of
Mithras" Eunapios calls him.

Vettius Agorius Praetextatus was one of the political leaders of the
pagan intellectual movement in an increasingly Christian late imperial
Rome. Now while it was not quite as bad to be a pagan in Christian
Rome as it had been to be a Christian in pagan Rome — not only you
were not tortured or killed, but you could have the distinguished
career we read in the inscription above — it did take courage. In the
face of the Christian juggernaut, Praetextatus, his activist wife
Fabia Aconia Paulina, and a circle of friends including the statesman
and writer Symmachus, used mostly religious and cultural means to
fight the rearguard battle for Roman classical religion and ideals:
literary works, statues, the restoration of temples.

Valete bene!

Cato

rom <http://rt.com/>

























Marcus Prometheus omnibus SPD
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Tcarnaev]<http://rt.com/politics/russian/caucasus-foothold-russia-kremlin/>23.10,
12:206 comments<http://rt.com/politics/russian/caucasus-foothold-russia-kremlin/comments/>
"Caucasus is the foothold of
Russia"<http://rt.com/politics/russian/caucasus-foothold-russia-kremlin/>

The deputy head of the Russian President�s administration, Vladislav Surkov,
has spoken about the significance of the Caucasus for Russia during his
visit to the Chechen Republic.
<http://rt.com/news/police-foil-terrorist-attacks/>09.09, 11:172
comments<http://rt.com/news/police-foil-terrorist-attacks/comments/>
Police foil terrorist attacks planned for
Moscow<http://rt.com/news/police-foil-terrorist-attacks/>

Two terrorist attacks have been prevented in Moscow by law enforcement
agencies. Police discovered suicide bombers were going to use sneakers
containing explosives as potential weapons.
"Ancient Roman tactics are the solution to Chechnya"
permalink <http://rt.com/news/ancient-roman-solution-chechnya/> email story
to a friend<http://rt.com/emailstory/?doc_id=29735&type_doc=1&referer=http%3A%2F%2Frt.com%2Fnews%2Fancient-roman-solution-chechnya%2F>
print
version <http://rt.com/news/ancient-roman-solution-chechnya/print/>

Published: 07 August, 2009, 15:31

*TAGS:* Conflict <http://rt.com/tags/conflict/>,
Military<http://rt.com/tags/military/>
, Chechnya <http://rt.com/tags/chechnya/>, Russia<http://rt.com/tags/russia/>

Prominent Russian journalist and political analyst Nikolay Svanidze spoke
with RT on the sources of the two military conflicts in Chechnya and what
the future holds for the republic.

RT: Why was it Chechnya, of all the southern Russian republics, that became
the grounds for major extremist movements?

Nikolay Svanidze: Well, it started back in the early 1990s. It so happened
that the Chechen Republic became a base for radical Islamist forces. Why? I
think to some extent it was incidental. For one thing, a very ambitious
Soviet general, who probably craved to have Chechnya separated from Russia,
came to power there. There were a lot of subjective things at play.

Chechnya is what gave Russia the experience � which had to be acquired
eventually � and understanding that using military force to make the
republic remain part of the Russian Federation was probably not the right
option. It is the Caucasus we are talking about where it is very hard to
solve such problems by using force.

RT: Is there any way to establish long-term peace in the region?

N.S.: I think a way has been found � starting from the father of the current
president � Akhmad Kadyrov. The solution is not new. Ancient Romans thousand
of years ago used it, and the British too. You can�t conquer people �
especially freedom-loving people, even if they lag behind in terms of
civilization � by using outside force.

One has to find an individual from the people, find forces within the people
who could control the situation. Ones who would be ready, no matter the
reason � for fear, conscience, money, or ideals � to cooperate and keep
things under control. In that case the situation could be stabilized.

During the first Chechen campaign the force method prevailed and at the very
beginning of the Second military campaign the force method also prevailed.
However, eventually it became clear that the use of force was futile as it
only helped fix the situation for a few months. Then it blows up again,
unless a respected and powerful representative from the people takes the
situation under control.

RT: Could the Second Chechen
campaign<http://rt.com/news/dagestan-chechen-terrorist-war-2009-08-07/>
have
been avoided?

N.S.: It�s hard to say whether it was possible to avoid the confrontation.
Everything depended on the situation within Chechnya, and I think even if it
was possible to avoid it � it wouldn�t have been for long. And an implosion
was pre-programmed anyway.

The implosion potential was caused by the fact that initially the situation
was developing under the impact of the forces who were striving for
independence or a very large autonomy, but afterwards Islamists started
acquiring more and more power. Not just any Islamists � radical ones, the
forces of Islamist extremism. They could not have been satisfied with just
autonomy. Those were religious fanatics who would never hesitate to shed
more and more blood, without end. And I don�t think a deal with them was
possible.

RT: Who do you think was behind the militants?

N.S.: I think a world terrorist network was behind them, no doubt. Radical
Islamist forces in some Muslim countries. It does not cast a shadow on the
religion, of course. It casts a shadow only on some states. The radical
Islamist forces are international. And Al-Qaeda can be traced here without a
doubt. It�s an international terrorist network, and in this case Chechnya
was just one of the bases in a worldwide war of civilizations.

RT: What goals did these Islamist forces have in Chechnya?

N.S.: The ultimate goal was to seize the world, and fully modify the vector
of the development of world civilization to suit their own needs. As for
Chechnya in particular, the goal was to expand the influence first in North
Caucasus, then throughout the Caucasus as a whole, and ultimately to create
a large extremist religious state.

RT: When we look back � what mistakes have been made during the Chechen
campaigns which could have been avoided?

N.S.: It�s hard to go into details but I think sometimes the Federal forces
tend to forget that the confrontation was taking place on the territory of
the Russian Federation, that Chechen people were part of Russia. Their anger
at the militants was at times reaching the overall peaceful Chechen
population and causing parts of it take the side of the militants. The spite
and anger on both sides sometimes reached unprecedented heights and that did
not help the situation. It only prompted the escalation of the hostilities
and the rage. That is why it became important to find an authoritative
Chechen, because the situation was threatening to go beyond the conflict
between the federal forces and the militants, and turn into a conflict
between Chechnya and Russia � something to be avoided by all means. No
military means could solve the situation. The conflict would�ve dragged for
years.

RT: How do you view the future of Chechen republic?

N.S.: It�s hard to forecast. One can only hope for the better. President
Kadyrov has a firm grip of the republic. However, the thing is that danger
is not restricted to Chechnya alone. We can see what is going on in Dagestan
and Ingushetia.

Whereas during the periods of economic prosperity the fires were put out by
money, now it is more problematic, due to the economic crisis, and it does
not help in quelling the situation.
1 COMMENTS <http://rt.com/news/ancient-roman-solution-chechnya/comments/>

stakhonovite August 26, 2009, 06:29

you would think that the genocidal exile of the Chechnyan population to
siberia where half of them perished would have something to do with their
unending hatred of russian domination

http://rt.com/news/ancient-roman-solution-chechnya/
*




*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Marcus Prometheus omnibus in foro spd


lat.: SPINTRIAE (fem. plur.)

= it. marchette per lupanari

= rom. jetoane pentru case de placere

= en. tokens for brothels


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVETE!

Collegium Pontificum was called into session starting with 07.00 hr.(Rome time) on a.d.III Id Nov 2763 a.U.c (Thursday 11 November 2010) until 19.00 hr.(Rome time) on a.d.XII Kal Dec 2763 a.U.c (Saturday 20 November 2010).

QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQUE SIT POPULO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS

Unique item of agenda:
Collegium Pontificum elect a new Pontifex Maximus from the list of available pontifices.

Result:
T. Iulius Sabinus was elected Pontifex Maximus of Nova Roma.

Details:

1. Initial list of available pontifices for position of Pontifex Maximus:
- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus.
- Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.
- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.
- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.
- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.

2. Pontifices who announced their name withdraw from the list or were not interested for position of Pontifex Maximus:
- Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.
- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.
- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.

3. The updated list of candidates:
- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus.
- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.
- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.

4. Collegium Pontificum members who were entitled to vote during the session:
- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus – didn't join to the CP list.
- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.
- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.
- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus – didn't join to the CP
list.
- Flamen K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.
- Flamen C. Petronius Dexter.
- Flamen M'. Titinius Silvanus.

5. The following Collegium Pontificum members voted in favor for T. Iulius Sabinus as Pontifex Maximus:
- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.
- Flamen K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.
- Flamen C. Petronius Dexter.
- Flamen M'. Titinius Silvanus.

6. Abstaining vote:
- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.

7. Absents:
- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus – didn't join to the CP list.
- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus – didn't join to the CP list.

VALETE,
T. Iulius Sabinus

L. Livia Plauta omnibus S. P. D.

From this moment on I resign my position as a lictor of Nova Roma.

Optime valete,
L. Livia Plauta

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sabinus" <iulius_sabinus@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, November 20, 2010 11:37 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Collegium Pontificum session report.


SALVETE!

Collegium Pontificum was called into session starting with 07.00 hr.(Rome
time) on a.d.III Id Nov 2763 a.U.c (Thursday 11 November 2010) until 19.00
hr.(Rome time) on a.d.XII Kal Dec 2763 a.U.c (Saturday 20 November 2010).

QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQUE SIT POPULO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS

Unique item of agenda:
Collegium Pontificum elect a new Pontifex Maximus from the list of available
pontifices.

Result:
T. Iulius Sabinus was elected Pontifex Maximus of Nova Roma.

Details:

1. Initial list of available pontifices for position of Pontifex Maximus:
- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus.
- Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.
- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.
- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.
- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.

2. Pontifices who announced their name withdraw from the list or were not
interested for position of Pontifex Maximus:
- Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.
- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.
- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.

3. The updated list of candidates:
- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus.
- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.
- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.

4. Collegium Pontificum members who were entitled to vote during the
session:
- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus - didn't join to the CP list.
- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.
- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.
- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus - didn't join to the CP
list.
- Flamen K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.
- Flamen C. Petronius Dexter.
- Flamen M'. Titinius Silvanus.

5. The following Collegium Pontificum members voted in favor for T. Iulius
Sabinus as Pontifex Maximus:
- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.
- Flamen K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.
- Flamen C. Petronius Dexter.
- Flamen M'. Titinius Silvanus.

6. Abstaining vote:
- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.

7. Absents:
- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus - didn't join to the CP list.
- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus - didn't join to the CP list.

VALETE,
T. Iulius Sabinus

SALVE!
 
Recorded. Thank you for your past service.
 
VALE,
Sabinus

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--- On Sun, 11/21/10, L. Livia Plauta <livia.plauta@...> wrote:


From: L. Livia Plauta <livia.plauta@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] My resignation as a lictrix
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cc: NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 21, 2010, 1:51 AM


 



L. Livia Plauta omnibus S. P. D.

From this moment on I resign my position as a lictor of Nova Roma.

Optime valete,
L. Livia Plauta






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque bonae voluntatis
S.P.D.

For I presume that members of the latter two categories are still on
this list...

I am pleased to announce that after an absence of a couple of years, we
shall once again be able to offer the popular Rudimenta Latina course. This
brief introductory course discusses the history and background of the Latin
language, but does not include actual instruction in Latin, though the text
does contain some very elementary Latin, which is one of the reasons for
which we recommend it before attempting the actual Latin courses. The
course is slated to begin on (or about) January 10th, 2011, and should last
approximately ten weeks: nine weeks of instruction, followed by an
examination. The course is divided into three sessions of three weeks each;
all students must post to the forum at least once during each of these
sessions, but there is no written homework or other obligation above and
beyond reading and absorbing the single lesson and the relevant portion of
the text until it is time to take the examination. The text for this course
is A Natural History of Latin (subtitled The story of the World¹s Most
Successful Language), by Tore Janson, translated by Merethe Damsgard
Sørensen and Nigel Vincent, Oxford University Press, 2004. Students should
obtain a copy of the text prior to the start of class, but this is not a
strict requirement. Those wishing to take this course should contact me,
preferably after obtaining the text. Registration is not yet open; I shall
post that information when enrollment is possible.

Reminder: those students who have successfully completed Grammatica
Latina I a, or Grammatica Latina II a, but were unable to undertake or
complete the second semester courses due to changes in their circumstances
may rejoin the courses in January, for we have divided both of the
Grammatica courses to allow this. Several students, including some
excellent ones, have had to leave after the first term, and all are welcome
to return if their personal circumstances allow this. Again, concerned
parties should contact me.

Valete.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Iulio Sabino pontificis maximo sal.

Felicitations on your election, Iulius Sabinus. May the divine in all of its forms guide your mind and give you strength as you take on this service to the Respublica.

optime vale,

Cato

Ave!

Congratulations on your election! I hope that you will be an adornment on
the office and the Res Publica benefits from your leadership.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Sat, Nov 20, 2010 at 5:49 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

>
>
> Cato Iulio Sabino pontificis maximo sal.
>
> Felicitations on your election, Iulius Sabinus. May the divine in all of
> its forms guide your mind and give you strength as you take on this service
> to the Respublica.
>
> optime vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Iulius Caesar T. Iulio Sabino sal.

Congratulations on your election amice. The dawn if a new era, and I am confident that under your moderate yet determined guidance, a far better one than just closed. A good day for you, for the Collegium Pontificum, and for Nova Roma.

Optime vale.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve T Iulius et salvete omnes;

I am trusting that the Religio Publica will grow as a true Cultus Deorum
under your leadership. This should be a happy day for both the Respublica,
its Cives and for the Cultors...

Benedicte - Venator


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sta. Cornelia Aeternia T. Iulio Sabino S.P.D.


Felicitations and best of luck to you.

Vale Optime,
Aeternia

2010/11/20 Sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...>

>
>
> SALVETE!
>
> Collegium Pontificum was called into session starting with 07.00 hr.(Rome
> time) on a.d.III Id Nov 2763 a.U.c (Thursday 11 November 2010) until 19.00
> hr.(Rome time) on a.d.XII Kal Dec 2763 a.U.c (Saturday 20 November 2010).
>
> QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQUE SIT POPULO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS
>
> Unique item of agenda:
> Collegium Pontificum elect a new Pontifex Maximus from the list of
> available pontifices.
>
> Result:
> T. Iulius Sabinus was elected Pontifex Maximus of Nova Roma.
>
> Details:
>
> 1. Initial list of available pontifices for position of Pontifex Maximus:
> - Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus.
> - Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.
> - Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
> - Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
> - Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.
> - Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.
> - Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.
>
> 2. Pontifices who announced their name withdraw from the list or were not
> interested for position of Pontifex Maximus:
> - Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.
> - Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
> - Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.
> - Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
>
> 3. The updated list of candidates:
> - Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus.
> - Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.
> - Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.
>
> 4. Collegium Pontificum members who were entitled to vote during the
> session:
> - Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus � didn't join to the CP list.
> - Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
> - Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
> - Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.
> - Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.
> - Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus � didn't join to the CP
> list.
> - Flamen K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.
> - Flamen C. Petronius Dexter.
> - Flamen M'. Titinius Silvanus.
>
> 5. The following Collegium Pontificum members voted in favor for T. Iulius
> Sabinus as Pontifex Maximus:
> - Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
> - Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
> - Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.
> - Flamen K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.
> - Flamen C. Petronius Dexter.
> - Flamen M'. Titinius Silvanus.
>
> 6. Abstaining vote:
> - Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.
>
> 7. Absents:
> - Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus � didn't join to the CP list.
> - Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus � didn't join to the CP list.
>
> VALETE,
> T. Iulius Sabinus
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XI Kalendas Decembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"These remonstrances only irritated the Dictator against them instead
of making him more peaceably disposed towards Fabius, and he ordered
them to leave the tribunal. In vain the ushers demanded silence,
neither the Dictator's voice nor those of his officers could be heard
owing to the noise and uproar; at last night put an end to the
conflict as though it had been a battle. The Master of the Horse was
ordered to appear on the following day. As, however, everybody assured
him that Papirius was so upset and embittered by the resistance he had
met with that he would be more furious than ever, Fabius left the camp
secretly and reached Rome in the night. On the advice of his father,
M. Fabius, who had been thrice consul as well as Dictator a meeting of
the senate was at once summoned. Whilst his son was describing to the
senators the violence and injustice of the Dictator, suddenly the
noise of the lictors clearing the way in front of the Senate-house was
heard and the Dictator himself appeared, having followed him up with
some light cavalry as soon as he heard that he had quitted the camp.
Then the contention began again, and Papirius ordered Fabius to be
arrested. Though not only the leaders of the senate but the whole
House sought to deprecate his wrath, he remained unmoved and persisted
in his purpose. Then M. Fabius, the father, said: "Since neither the
authority of the senate nor the years which I, whom you are preparing
to bereave of a son have reached, nor the noble birth and personal
merits of the Master of the Horse whom you yourself appointed, and
entreaties such as have often mitigated the fierceness of human foes
and pacified the anger of offended deities-since none of these move
you-I claim the intervention of the tribunes of the plebs and appeal
to the people. As you are seeking to escape from the judgment which
the army has passed upon you and which the senate is passing now, I
summon you before the one judge who has at all events more power and
authority than your Dictatorship. I shall see whether you will submit
to an appeal to which a Roman king-Tullus Hotilius-submitted." He at
once left the Senate-house for the Assembly. Thither the Dictator also
proceeded with a small party, whilst the Master of the Horse was
accompanied by all the leaders of the senate in a body. They had both
taken their places on the rostra when Papirius ordered Fabius to be
removed to the space below. His father followed him and turned to
Papirius with the remark, "You do well to order us to be removed to a
position from which we can speak as private citizens."

For some time regular debate was out of the question, nothing was
heard but mutual altercations. At last the loud and indignant tones of
the elder Fabius rose above the hubbub as he expatiated on the tyranny
and brutality of Papirius. He himself, he said, had been Dictator, and
not a single person, not a single plebeian, whether centurion or
private soldier, had ever suffered any wrong from him. But Papirius
would wrest victory and triumph from a Roman commander just as he
would from hostile generals. What a difference there was between the
moderation shown by the men of old and this new fashion of ruthless
severity! The Dictator, Quinctius Cincinnatus, rescued the consul, L.
Minucius, from a blockade, and the only punishment he inflicted was to
leave him as second in command of the army. L. Furius, after
expressing his contempt for the age and authority of M. F. Camillus,
incurred a most disgraceful defeat, but Camillus not only checked his
anger for the moment and refrained from putting in his despatches to
the people, or rather to the senate, anything reflecting on his
colleague, but on his return to Rome, after the senate had allowed him
to choose from the consular tribunes one to be associated with him in
his command, he actually chose L. Furius. Why, even the people
themselves, who hold in their hands the sovereign power, have never
allowed their feelings to carry them beyond the imposition of a fine
even where armies have been lost through the foolhardiness or
ignorance of their generals. Never up to this day has a
commander-in-chief been tried for his life because he was defeated.
But now generals who have won victories and earned the most splendid
triumphs are threatened with the rods and axes, a treatment which the
laws of war forbid even to the vanquished. What, he asked, would his
son have suffered if he had met with defeat, been routed and stripped
of his camp? Could that man's rage and violence go beyond scourging
and killing? It was owing to Q. Fabius that the State was offering up
joyous and grateful thanksgivings for victory; it was on his account
that the sacred fanes stood open and prayers and libations were being
offered at the altars, and the smoke of sacrifice was ascending. How
fitting it was that this very man should be stripped and torn with
rods before the eyes of the Roman people, in sight of the Capitol and
the Citadel, in sight of the gods whom he invoked in two battles nor
invoked in vain! What would be the feelings of the army who had won
their victories under his auspices and generalship? What grief would
there be in the Roman camp, what exultation among the enemy! The old
man wept bitterly as he uttered these protests and expostulations,
ever and anon throwing his arms round his son and appealing for help
to gods and men." - Livy, History of Rome 8.33


"Hathor, Lady of Amenty, the Dweller in the Great Land, the Lady of
Ta-Tchesert, the Eye of Ra, the Dweller in his breast, the Beautiful
Face in the Boat of Millions of Years, the Seat of Peace of the doer
of truth, Dweller in the Boat of the favoured ones..." - The Chapter
of Praise of Hathor, Lady of Amenty, The Book of the Dead

In ancient Egypt, today was held in honor of the goddess Hathor.
Hathor originated in predynastic Egypt, around the fourth millenium
B.C. Her name means "house of Horus" and she was originally seen as
the mother of Horus until Isis took the role. Hathor embodied both
creative and destructive powers and when mankind rebelled against Ra,
he sent her to punish them. She took on the form of Sekhmet and was so
caught up in the bloodlust of slaughtering humans that mankind was in
danger of extinction. To stop her, Ra had his servants brew gallons
upon gallons of beer, adding berry juice to make it red. Then, while
she was sleeping, he poured it onto a field near her. Hathor thought
it was blood and so drank it and became drunk. This stopped her
murderous rampage and saved mankind. Hathor became the goddess of
joy, motherhood, and love. She was considered the protectress of
pregnant women and a midwife. She was the patron of all women, no
matter their station in life. As the goddess of music and dancing her
symbol was the sistrum. As a fertility goddess and a goddess of
moisture, Hathor was associated with the inundation of the Nile. In
this aspect she was associated with the Dog-star Sothis whose rising
above the horizon heralded the annual flooding of the Nile. In the
legend of Ra and Hathor she is called the "Eye of Ra."

In later times, when the Osiris cults gained popularity, her role
changed. She now welcomed the arrival of the deceased to the
underworld, dispensing water to the souls of the dead from the
branches of a sycamore and offering them food. Hathor was also
represented as a cow suckling the soul of the dead, thus giving them
sustenance during their mummification, their journey to the judgement
hall, and the weighing of their soul. In the Late Period, dead women
identified themselves with Hathor, as men identified with Osiris.



In ancient Mesoamerica, today was dedicated to the god Quetzalcoatl.
The name "Quetzalcoatl" literally means snake or serpent
with feathers (Amphitere) of the Quetzal (which implies something
divine or precious) in the Nahuatl language. The meaning of his local
name in other Mesoamerican languages is similar. The Maya knew him as
Kukulkan; the Quiche as Gukumatz. The Feathered Serpent deity was
important in art and religion in most of Mesoamerica for close to
2,000 years, from the Pre-Classic era until the Spanish conquest.
Civilizations worshiping the Feathered Serpent included the Olmec, the
Mixtec, the Toltec, the Aztec, and the Maya.

The worship of Quetzalcoatl sometimes included animal sacrifices, and
in other traditions Quetzalcoatl was said to oppose human sacrifice.
Mesoamerican priests and kings would sometimes take the name of a
deity they were associated with, so Quetzalcoatl and Kukulcan are also
the names of historical persons. The reason being that Quetzalcoatl
called twelve to reign in his stead after he left the people of the
Yucatan. He also called one man, who he gave his rights, priviledges
and powers to administer in his religious duties. This one took on the
name of the Deity, as to show the power had been given to this man.
The name was pronounced differently, to denote this man a mortal, in
contrast to Quetzalcoatl, Kate-Zal, or Kukulcan the God of wind and
waves.

One noted Post-Classic Toltec ruler was named Quetzalcoatl; he may be
the same individual as the Kukulcan who invaded Yucatán at about the
same time. The Mixtec also recorded a ruler named for the Feathered
Serpent. In the 10th century a ruler closely associated with
Quetzalcoatl ruled the Toltecs; his name was Topiltzin Ce Acatl
Quetzalcoatl. This ruler was said to be the son of either the great
Chichimeca warrior, Mixcoatl and the Colhuacano woman Chimalman, or of
their descendant. The Toltecs had a dualistic belief system.
Quetzalcoatl's opposite was Tezcatlipoca, who supposedly sent
Quetzalcoatl into exile. Alternatively, he left willingly on a raft of
snakes, promising to return.

When the Aztecs adopted the culture of the Toltecs, they made twin
gods of Tezcatlipoca and Quetzalcoatl, opposite and equal;
Quetzalcoatl was also called White Tezcatlipoca, to contrast him to
the black Tezcatlipoca. Together, they created the world; Tezcatlipoca
lost his foot in that process. The Aztec Emperor Moctezuma II
initially believed the landing of Hernan Cortes in 1519 was
Quetzalcoatl's return. Cortes played off this belief to aid in his
conquest of Mexico.

The exact significance and attributes of Quetzalcoatl varied somewhat
between civilizations and through history. Quetzalcoatl was often
considered the god of the morning star and his twin brother, Xolotl
was the evening star (Venus). As the morning star he was known under
the title Tlahuizcalpantecuhtli, which means literally "the lord of
the star of the dawn". He was known as the inventor of books and the
calendar, the giver of maize corn to mankind, and sometime as a symbol
of death and resurrection. Quetzalcoatl was also the patron of the
priests and the title of the Aztec high priest.

Most Mesoamerican beliefs included cycles of worlds. Usually, our
current time was considered the fifth world, the previous four having
been destroyed by flood, fire and the like. Quetzalcoatl allegedly
went to Mictlan, the underworld, and created fifth world-mankind from
the bones of the previous races (with the help of Cihuacoatl), using
his own blood, from a wound in his penis, to imbue the bones with new
life. His own birth, along with his twin Xolotl, was unusual; it was
a virgin birth, born to the goddess Coatlicue.

In Terry Pratchett's Discworld novel "Eric", the people of the Tezumen
Empire worshipped a creature described as a "feathered boa" called
Quezovercoatl.

Valete bene!

Cato

Salvete Romans,

I announce my candidacy for the office of Tribune of the Plebs for this years election. I have been a citizen since 21 January 2755. I am 53 years of age, I am of the Plebeian Ordo, Assidui and a citizen in good standing.

I respectfully ask that you cast your vote for me.

Valete

Ti. Galerius Paulinus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Maria Caeca T. Iulio Sabino S. P. D.

Please allow me to offer you my congratulations upon you election to this
great trust, my prayers for your success, and my best wishes that you will
find your newest endeavor both challenging and satisfying in all the very
best ways.

I am confident that your service in this post will be an adornment to the
Res Publica, and that, under guidance, and with your help, we will be able
to re-establish the CP in a way that allows the development and
reconstruction of the Sacra Romans, its healthy practice, and the growth of
its priesthoods in ways that benefit us all.

Vale bene,
With great respect,
C. Maria Caeca

C. Tullius Valerianus & uxor C. Valeria Pulchra Iulio Sabino pontifici
maximo S.P.D.

Ave, Pontifex Maximus! We congratulate you on your election!

Vale!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:

>
> Ave!
>
> Congratulations on your election! I hope that you will be an adornment on
> the office and the Res Publica benefits from your leadership.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
>

Salve,

I find Sulla's congratulations a bit odd, considering he referred to the last elected Pontifex Maximus as the anti-pope(among other epithets).

I wonder if he no longer considers Cassius to be the true Pontifex Maximus, as he previously and regularly claimed on the Back Alley.

This is to all of those that had considered Piscinus to be a false PM, and Cassius the true PM who was wrongfully demoted, what is your opinion of the situation now? I know Octavious Gracchus used the incident as one of his reasons for resigning his titles, office, and citizenship.

Perhaps it was just Piscinus you all didn't like, and the whole "cassius is the true PM" was just a smokescreen.

Vale,

Anna Bucci

Salve,

Do you ever mention historic days from ancient Northern Europe?

Vale,

Anna Bucci

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>
>

Re: plebeian v. patrician.

It is not a division based on religion qua religion. It's a socio-political division that was used to exclude the non-nobles from attaining priesthood. The gods do not care in the least whether someone is patrician or plebeian, as that distinction can only exist in the Roman political context. I'm 100% certain that the gods are not limited to the Roman political arena.

If the US made a law saying that only people of English descent could be priests, would we also think that is religious? Of course not. Even if it affects religion, it's a political distinction. As long as the duties are fulfilled by a free man, there is no harm.

Poplicola

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius Dexter omnibus forensibus s.p.d.,
>
> > It revives ancient Roman custom but with more accessibility to all citizens.
>
> We are not ancient Roman citizens. We have rights and visions of men and women more in progress. We have to be opponent to the slavery as to the ordo equester too.
>
> Ancient Roman customs have to show us what we must avoid. From the lessons of the past we have to build our future.
>
> Why am I against division based on money? Not because I am poor. I am not poor and I can without problem to pay a yearly $1000 fee. You know that the founders of the "socialism" were not from the poorer citizens but were from the middle class for the least and some of them were riches or "bourgeois".
>
> For me it is not a problem of money in itself.
> It is a principle.
>
> Dividing people into classes or orders is not efficient.
>
> First class. Senators.
> If a senator must to pay a higher tax than another citizen, bit by bit he only see his own interests and not the interest of all the community.
>
> Second class. Equites.
> Equites will pay higher taxes than other citizens and lower than senators. Them too will act in the interests of their own class against the senators and against the people.
>
> Third class.
> A) cives assidui.
> They will pay the normal taxes. They will have les and less access to the magistracies. They will loose the access to the Senate, because the will not want to pay higher taxes. And by this way, a sort of selection by money is made and statued.
>
> B) Cives capite censi.
> They have no rights, they are here for the decor. Put on 4 urban tribes and in the century 51. But they are the majority of our citizens!
>
> In my opinion all this manner to divide the citizens is to avoid.
>
> For Patricians and Plebeians division, Valerius Poplicola gave his opinion. For me this division is not very dangerous and it is a religious division. The plebs has his tribunes and ediles to prevent any Patrician coup. But nobody of the third class has any magistrate against senators and the future equites... who will have bit by bit more and more interests for themselves.
>
> If we create divisions based on money, as the human nature seems to push some of us, we need to create a counter power as Plebeians did against Patricians.
>
> We also have the divisons in centuries and tribes. Those divisions are not dangerous because they are not based on concurrence nor for struggle between them.
>
> My fellow citizens, we know by experience and by history that the divisions based on the money are not interesting nor fair, it is a division known in all of our macronations, and we all know that this division never gave good things for the majority but real good only for a smaller majority.
>
> Now you have to choose if you want to put the first step on these divisions. Lentulus is right, in his opinion we are not now where I make my focus, but the first step does not give an idea of all the scale. Fortunately, we have the lessons of the History to know the following steps.
>
> Optime valete.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. XII Kalendas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

Cato Annae sal.

Yes, if I know about them. Of course remember that *anyone* can post anything they'd like for any day; alternatively, if they'd like *me* to include it in a daily posting they can simply send me an email with the info.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Do you ever mention historic days from ancient Northern Europe?
>
> Vale,
>
> Anna Bucci
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
> >
> >
>

FYI



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caupo Catoni sal.



Cato, your posts for each day is one of the things I look forward to on this
list!



Thank you!



Vale optime,



L. Lucius Caupo





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVETE!

The Collegium Pontificum is called into session starting with 07.00 hr.(Rome time) on a.d.X Kal Dec 2763 a.U.c (Monday 22 November 2010) until 19.00 hr.(Rome time) on pr Kal Dec 2763 a.U.c (Tuesday 30 November 2010).

The session schedule.

Contio:

Starting with 07.00 hr.(Rome time) on a.d.X Kal Dec 2763 a.U.c (Monday 22 November 2010) until 19.00 hr.(Rome time) on a.d V Kal 2763 a.U.c (Saturday 27 November 2010).

Vote:
Start immediately after contio and conclude at 19.00 hr.(Rome time) on pr Kal Dec 2763 a.U.c (Tuesday, 30 November 2763).

QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQUE SIT POPULO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS

A. Current items:

1.The CP will analyze and if concluded, remove Decretum de Consule P. Memmio impietate prudente dolo malo.
2.The CP will analyze and if concluded, remove the Decretum Pontificum de Pontifico Q. Caecilio Metello.
3.The CP will analyze and if concluded, remove the Decretum Pontifici Maximi V. Rutilia Enodiaria.
4.The CP will analyze and if concluded suspend for this year the Decretum pontificum de renuntiationibus annualibus sacerdotum and Collegium Pontificum minimum requirements.
5.The CP will analyze and if concluded decide about the application of the Priesthood assidui status requirement decret.
6.The CP will analyze and if concluded decide to complete various religious positions of NR.
7.The CP will analyze and if concluded approve the Collegium Pontificum secretary position.
8.The CP will analyze the members of Comitia Curiata activity and decide about it next componence.
9.The CP will analyze the possibility as the Collegium Pontificum and Collegium Augurum to use the same list of discussions.
10.The CP will perform a piaculum publicum for the collective community of Nova Roma.

B.The Collegium Pontificum members can add new items during the contio but not later than 19.00 hr.(Rome time) on a.d VI Kal 2763 a.U.c (Friday 26 November 2010)- (24 hrs before the vote starts).

C. Participation in session:

1. The following Collegium Pontificum members participate to contio:
- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus – didn't join to the CP list.
- Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.
- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.
- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.
- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus – didn't join to the CP list.
- Flamen K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.
- Flamen C. Petronius Dexter.
- Flamen M'. Titinius Silvanus.
- Augur M. Lucretius Agricola has the right to present his opinions during the contio about the items which enter in his competency (items 6 and 9, but not limited)

2. The following Collegium Pontificum members participate to vote:
- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus – didn't join to the CP list.
- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.
- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.
- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.
- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus – didn't join to the CP list.
- Flamen K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.
- Flamen C. Petronius Dexter.
- Flamen M'. Titinius Silvanus.

D. The Collegium Pontificum session can be observed by the entire Nova Roman community at this address:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/collegium_pontificum_nr/

VALETE,
T. Iulius Sabinus
Pontifex Maximus.

SALVE MINUCIA MARCELLA!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "lathyrus77" <lathyrus77@...> wrote:

> I find Sulla's congratulations a bit odd, considering he referred to the last elected Pontifex Maximus as the anti-pope(among other epithets).
> I wonder if he no longer considers Cassius to be the true Pontifex Maximus, as he previously and regularly claimed on the Back Alley.
> This is to all of those that had considered Piscinus to be a false PM, and Cassius the true PM who was wrongfully demoted, what is your opinion of the situation now? I know Octavious Gracchus used the incident as one of his reasons for resigning his titles, office, and citizenship.
> Perhaps it was just Piscinus you all didn't like, and the whole "cassius is the true PM" was just a smokescreen.>>>

The situation now is simple: at this time I represent the necessary step as Nova Roma to move on in the Roman Religion field in order to equilibrate and correct some things in agreement with the entire Collegium Pontificum for our community benefit.
For the future, anything is open and only the Gods know the course of events. Frankly, I don't worry to much about these because I know that what is happen already happened.

VALE,
Sabinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

>
> Cato Annae sal.
>
> Yes, if I know about them. Of course remember that *anyone* can post anything they'd like for any day; alternatively, if they'd like *me* to include it in a daily posting they can simply send me an email with the info.
>
>

Salve,

I was just curious. I rarely read your Dates posts.

Vale,

Anna Bucci

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:

> I am pleased to announce that after an absence of a couple of years, we shall once again be able to offer the popular Rudimenta Latina course. Students should obtain a copy of the text prior to the start of class, but this is not a strict requirement. Those wishing to take this course should contact me, preferably after obtaining the text.
>

Salve Scholastica, et salvete omnes

I have the book, and, if I may, I should like to announce my interest in joining the course.

Vale, et valete optime
Crispus

Salve Sabinus, Pontifex Maximus pro Nova Roma;

Getting right down to business, very good, sir, very good.

Bona Fortuna!

Venator

Cn. Lentulus pontifex, sacerdos Concordiae, T. Iulio Sabino pontifici maximo novo s. p. d.


I congratulate for your appointment, Pontifex Maxime T. Iuli Sabine, Censor! I wish you success and glory in all your future endeauvors, and I pray for you and for blessings in your priesthood. I dearly remember of the days when we started together in Nova Roma as scribes of the aedilis. And where are you now, amice, in what highness! I am very proud of you! It will be huge life time liability and imposition, but you'll have a lot of helper, you will carry this burden shared with your peer pontifices! We will be there to help you.

You are now the head of the modern Roman religion: long live our Pontifex Maximus, T. Iulius Sabinus!

All the Gods Immortal bless and protect you, may the Gods guide you, especially Iuppiter Optimus Maximus, Mars, Quirinus, Iuno and Minerva!

Cura ut valeas optime in pace et custodia omnium Deorum Romanorum!

Vivat T. Iulius Sabinus, pontifex maximus Rei Publicae Novae Romanae!




--- Sab 20/11/10, Sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> ha scritto:

Da: Sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Collegium Pontificum session report.
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Sabato 20 novembre 2010, 23:37







 









SALVETE!



Collegium Pontificum was called into session starting with 07.00 hr.(Rome time) on a.d.III Id Nov 2763 a.U.c (Thursday 11 November 2010) until 19.00 hr.(Rome time) on a.d.XII Kal Dec 2763 a.U.c (Saturday 20 November 2010).



QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQUE SIT POPULO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS



Unique item of agenda:

Collegium Pontificum elect a new Pontifex Maximus from the list of available pontifices.



Result:

T. Iulius Sabinus was elected Pontifex Maximus of Nova Roma.



Details:



1. Initial list of available pontifices for position of Pontifex Maximus:

- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus.

- Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.

- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.

- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.

- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.

- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.



2. Pontifices who announced their name withdraw from the list or were not interested for position of Pontifex Maximus:

- Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.

- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.

- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.



3. The updated list of candidates:

- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus.

- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.

- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.



4. Collegium Pontificum members who were entitled to vote during the session:

- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus – didn't join to the CP list.

- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.

- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.

- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.

- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus – didn't join to the CP

list.

- Flamen K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.

- Flamen C. Petronius Dexter.

- Flamen M'. Titinius Silvanus.



5. The following Collegium Pontificum members voted in favor for T. Iulius Sabinus as Pontifex Maximus:

- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.

- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.

- Flamen K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.

- Flamen C. Petronius Dexter.

- Flamen M'. Titinius Silvanus.



6. Abstaining vote:

- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.



7. Absents:

- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus – didn't join to the CP list.

- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus – didn't join to the CP list.



VALETE,

T. Iulius Sabinus

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Popllia Laenas Tito Iulio Sabino et omnio salutem dicit;
 
Greetings and congratulations to the new pontifex maximus!
I hope we can see you in Budapest next year in the Floralia.
 
Vale!
 
Popillia
 
 

--- On Sun, 11/21/10, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:


From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Novus pontifex maximus - T. Sabinus!
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 21, 2010, 9:17 PM


 



Cn. Lentulus pontifex, sacerdos Concordiae, T. Iulio Sabino pontifici maximo novo s. p. d.

I congratulate for your appointment, Pontifex Maxime T. Iuli Sabine, Censor! I wish you success and glory in all your future endeauvors, and I pray for you and for blessings in your priesthood. I dearly remember of the days when we started together in Nova Roma as scribes of the aedilis. And where are you now, amice, in what highness! I am very proud of you! It will be huge life time liability and imposition, but you'll have a lot of helper, you will carry this burden shared with your peer pontifices! We will be there to help you.

You are now the head of the modern Roman religion: long live our Pontifex Maximus, T. Iulius Sabinus!

All the Gods Immortal bless and protect you, may the Gods guide you, especially Iuppiter Optimus Maximus, Mars, Quirinus, Iuno and Minerva!

Cura ut valeas optime in pace et custodia omnium Deorum Romanorum!

Vivat T. Iulius Sabinus, pontifex maximus Rei Publicae Novae Romanae!

--- Sab 20/11/10, Sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> ha scritto:

Da: Sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Collegium Pontificum session report.
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Sabato 20 novembre 2010, 23:37

 

SALVETE!

Collegium Pontificum was called into session starting with 07.00 hr.(Rome time) on a.d.III Id Nov 2763 a.U.c (Thursday 11 November 2010) until 19.00 hr.(Rome time) on a.d.XII Kal Dec 2763 a.U.c (Saturday 20 November 2010).

QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQUE SIT POPULO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS

Unique item of agenda:

Collegium Pontificum elect a new Pontifex Maximus from the list of available pontifices.

Result:

T. Iulius Sabinus was elected Pontifex Maximus of Nova Roma.

Details:

1. Initial list of available pontifices for position of Pontifex Maximus:

- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus.

- Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.

- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.

- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.

- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.

- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.

2. Pontifices who announced their name withdraw from the list or were not interested for position of Pontifex Maximus:

- Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.

- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.

- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.

3. The updated list of candidates:

- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus.

- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.

- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.

4. Collegium Pontificum members who were entitled to vote during the session:

- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus – didn't join to the CP list.

- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.

- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.

- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.

- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus – didn't join to the CP

list.

- Flamen K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.

- Flamen C. Petronius Dexter.

- Flamen M'. Titinius Silvanus.

5. The following Collegium Pontificum members voted in favor for T. Iulius Sabinus as Pontifex Maximus:

- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.

- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.

- Flamen K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.

- Flamen C. Petronius Dexter.

- Flamen M'. Titinius Silvanus.

6. Abstaining vote:

- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.

7. Absents:

- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus – didn't join to the CP list.

- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus – didn't join to the CP list.

VALETE,

T. Iulius Sabinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus C. Catoni consuli candidato s. p. d.

I think you understand everything very correctly, consul candidate, except one point which I want to clear up now.

We know that Nova Roma is currently a meritocracy, in society where the most influential citizens are those who have the most merits done for the commonwealth. Both branches of the equestrian order (public and private horse) should reflect on it. The payment or donation to Nova Roma in the form of the so called "taxes" shall always be shaped and designed so that the payment does not mirror one's monetary or financial "power" but one's dedication and "willingness to give", i.e. his or her merit of being a dedicated Nova Roman. So the payment of plain, basic tax rate or the first class tax rate both should symbolic and they should rather test dedication and willingness than one's financial situation. That's the crucial point to see.

Century point, renamed as census point, should be the "sine qua non" of every social category.

Vale optime!


--- Sab 20/11/10, Cato <catoinnyc@...> ha scritto:








 









Cato Mariae Caecae Petronio Dextero Iulio Caesari omnibusque in foro SPD



OK. I've heard sound reasoning and some things to consider for a bit. It seems as if we all agree that merit should be the fundamental element of any new system; this is common ground from which we can work.



Valete bene,



Cato

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

AVETE
 
It seems to me that ROMA in such cases adopted the extermination war way. And it was very successful.
 
VALE OPTIME
 
LQV

--- Sab 20/11/10, Marcus Prometheus <marcusprometheus@...> ha scritto:


Da: Marcus Prometheus <marcusprometheus@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] "Ancient Roman tactics are the solution to Chechnya"
A: NR_Italia@yahoogroups.com, "n_rDACIANR" <DaciaNR@yahoogroups.com>, nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Sabato 20 novembre 2010, 11:14


  rom <http://rt.com/>




Marcus Prometheus omnibus  SPD
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Published: 07 August, 2009, 15:31

*TAGS:* Conflict <http://rt.com/tags/conflict/>,
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, Chechnya <http://rt.com/tags/chechnya/>, Russia<http://rt.com/tags/russia/>

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Nikolay Svanidze: Well, it started back in the early 1990s. It so happened
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Soviet general, who probably craved to have Chechnya separated from Russia,
came to power there. There were a lot of subjective things at play.

Chechnya is what gave Russia the experience – which had to be acquired
eventually – and understanding that using military force to make the
republic remain part of the Russian Federation was probably not the right
option. It is the Caucasus we are talking about where it is very hard to
solve such problems by using force.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Anna;
very interesting. Why isn't Cassius, the Pater Patriae the first (and to some the only), now Pontifex Maximus? I admit to being surprised as well...
M. Hortensia Maior

>
> This is to all of those that had considered Piscinus to be a false PM, and Cassius the true PM who was wrongfully demoted, what is your opinion of the situation now? I know Octavious Gracchus used the incident as one of his reasons for resigning his titles, office, and citizenship.
>
> Perhaps it was just Piscinus you all didn't like, and the whole "cassius is the true PM" was just a smokescreen.
>
> Vale,
>
> Anna Bucci
>

>
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Marcio Crispo quiritibus, sociis, peregrinisque
> bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
>> > I am pleased to announce that after an absence of a couple of years, we
>> shall once again be able to offer the popular Rudimenta Latina course.
>> Students should obtain a copy of the text prior to the start of class, but
>> this is not a strict requirement. Those wishing to take this course should
>> contact me, preferably after obtaining the text.
>> >
>
>
> Salve Scholastica, et salvete omnes
>
> I have the book, and, if I may, I should like to announce my interest in
> joining the course.
>
> ATS2: Optimé! Of course you may announce your intention, and it
> certainly is best to have the text in advance (and have it in hand) ;-),
> though this is the only course we offer which does not require that. We shall
> be delighted to have you...and anyone else! We do, however, have to wait for
> Avitus to revise the lessons before we can begin registration, and that may
> take a while. We just set the date for the start of class, and hope he will
> find the relevant message soon.
>
> Vale, et valete optime
> Crispus
>
> Vale, et valete optimé.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVETE!

I want to present my deep gratitude to those who sent me their congratulations.
I am honored and I use this opportunity to affirm that I will do my best.

Thank you.

VALETE,
T. Iulius Sabinus

SALVE ET SALVETE!
 
My dear friend, Lentule, your words brought back to me the emotions of my first days in Nova Roma and the first job in the aedilician cohort of Iulius Sulla (I'm still in connection with him!)
Then, I still remember our discussion in Shistov about how discovered we both sometime learn correct English words in the same way, using Google. 
Great times my friend! I am happy we are here and I am happy to see how many of us still are here. At the end that is important: to stay and participate.

 
VALE,
Sabinus

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--- On Sun, 11/21/10, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:


From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Novus pontifex maximus - T. Sabinus!
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 21, 2010, 10:17 PM


 



Cn. Lentulus pontifex, sacerdos Concordiae, T. Iulio Sabino pontifici maximo novo s. p. d.

I congratulate for your appointment, Pontifex Maxime T. Iuli Sabine, Censor! I wish you success and glory in all your future endeauvors, and I pray for you and for blessings in your priesthood. I dearly remember of the days when we started together in Nova Roma as scribes of the aedilis. And where are you now, amice, in what highness! I am very proud of you! It will be huge life time liability and imposition, but you'll have a lot of helper, you will carry this burden shared with your peer pontifices! We will be there to help you.

You are now the head of the modern Roman religion: long live our Pontifex Maximus, T. Iulius Sabinus!

All the Gods Immortal bless and protect you, may the Gods guide you, especially Iuppiter Optimus Maximus, Mars, Quirinus, Iuno and Minerva!

Cura ut valeas optime in pace et custodia omnium Deorum Romanorum!

Vivat T. Iulius Sabinus, pontifex maximus Rei Publicae Novae Romanae!

--- Sab 20/11/10, Sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> ha scritto:

Da: Sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Collegium Pontificum session report.
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Sabato 20 novembre 2010, 23:37

 

SALVETE!

Collegium Pontificum was called into session starting with 07.00 hr.(Rome time) on a.d.III Id Nov 2763 a.U.c (Thursday 11 November 2010) until 19.00 hr.(Rome time) on a.d.XII Kal Dec 2763 a.U.c (Saturday 20 November 2010).

QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQUE SIT POPULO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS

Unique item of agenda:

Collegium Pontificum elect a new Pontifex Maximus from the list of available pontifices.

Result:

T. Iulius Sabinus was elected Pontifex Maximus of Nova Roma.

Details:

1. Initial list of available pontifices for position of Pontifex Maximus:

- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus.

- Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.

- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.

- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.

- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.

- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.

2. Pontifices who announced their name withdraw from the list or were not interested for position of Pontifex Maximus:

- Pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus.

- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.

- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.

3. The updated list of candidates:

- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus.

- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.

- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus.

4. Collegium Pontificum members who were entitled to vote during the session:

- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus – didn't join to the CP list.

- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.

- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.

- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.

- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus – didn't join to the CP

list.

- Flamen K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.

- Flamen C. Petronius Dexter.

- Flamen M'. Titinius Silvanus.

5. The following Collegium Pontificum members voted in favor for T. Iulius Sabinus as Pontifex Maximus:

- Pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.

- Pontifex K. Fabius Buteo Modianus.

- Pontifex Q. Fabius Maximus.

- Flamen K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.

- Flamen C. Petronius Dexter.

- Flamen M'. Titinius Silvanus.

6. Abstaining vote:

- Pontifex T. Iulius Sabinus.

7. Absents:

- Pontifex M. Antonius Gryllus Graecus – didn't join to the CP list.

- Pontifex M. Moravius Piscinus Horatianus – didn't join to the CP list.

VALETE,

T. Iulius Sabinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus Caesari omnibusque sal.

>>> Your point about the century points is spot on amice. Again, as I know

since you read my paper, reforming the point system from a simple
allocation of points for saying "yes" to serving in unelected
positions, and for being elected, forms one of the core objectives I
proposed. <<<<


I think my proposal address the very same question, just in a broader approach, as it intends to correct the whole century-tribe system along with the century point (census point) allocations, and together with the question of the equestrian order. By refining the suggestions and proposals of both of us, I think a plausible and elegant "united reform" can very possibly be the result.

>>> Points should be awarded for work done that advances the

goals of Nova Roma, be it through official projects sponsored by the
Senate or through private enterprise and creativity. <<<<


If you read all my posts regarding this subject, you can see that I propose a similar thing. We should give points for learning Romanitas or participating in Roman activities. I am
suggesting that knowledge, scholarship, Latin studies be awarded by
century points. Participation in NR convents and real life meetings must be awarded by century points as well. Participation in
our ludi, too, should be rewarded by century points, although in a smaller extent. This system, and the different amount of points, shall be refined, but there are a lot of ideas about how to implement
this in a very fair and realistic way.

>>> Simply tinkering with the Ordo, or even a wholsesale resign that

Lentulus proposes, will still mean that we fail to address related
issues. >>>>



I think I am suggesting the same method that you suggest. We need the reform the complete NR societal system, the ordo equester is just a part of this question. I am proposing a complex, measured and planned reform.


Valete, omnes!















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Censori Iulio s.d.

Back in office after a short break, I am sincerely happy to state that the Collegium Pontificum has elected you Pontifex Maximus.

Please receive my sincere congratulations for this honor that a majority of the Collegium, and in a consensual mind if I am not wrong, gave you.

I will, if you do not mind, associate the whole Collegium to your name, for it was not easy, for our priests and flamines to do the long way that bring them to renounce considering our religious institutions as political tools at a service of a factio or of an peculiar ideology.

It has been a hard and long way, who took this year more than six months.

I have the odd impress being back in late January, when I called the religious institutions to place them at the service of our People, Senate and institutions, specially teaching, explaining, assisting us all in our daily life.

It is a new start for our Republic. On a negative way, we could say that 2/3 of the present year was lost. I prefer choosing the positive way to see things : it helped us all to be sure that we were decided to keep standing our common house, Nova Roma, and that the few efforts that we might brought to do each of us are a little price compared to this satisfaction stating that the community is still there, with new or renewed challenges, but with more experience for us all and a will to face them pragmatically and in the dialogue.

The agenda of the second session that you called immediately, just after your election, is a positive important step in this direction, for it seems embracing all the matters who are to dealt with at the present time.

Be our Gods with you, Pontifex maxime, and with our Collegia.

Vale sincerely Sabine,


P. Memmius Albucius
cos. maior











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

I have been asked to respond to this by a number of citizens, so, here is my
response in regards to this. Maior, you of all people, should realize that
Rome was not built in a day. And, it is with that recognition that I am
very pleased that the CP is beginning its own efforts at internal
reformation. Between the election of a new Pontifex Maximus (pro tempore -
if I am not mistaken) and the current CP agenda, and the openness of the CP
list to all citizens - all together are most certainly positive steps in the
right direction that will create an environment where the Religio officers
will be more conducive to cooperate and work with the Corporate officers
(and vice versa) in moving NR away from the near civil strife that was the
constant flagship under the previous tenure of lack of leadership.

With regards to the honorable and noble Marcus Cassius, Pater Patriae and
founder of Nova Roma. I hope that under the new leadership that there would
be a much better likelihood of reconciliation than there ever could be under
the worst Pontiff in Nova Roma (Piscinus). Many of us have already taken
steps at reconciliation, and this is just another necessary step that needs
to be addressed, and I hope that this is not overlooked in the coming
months.

NR has had enough conflict, Maior. You and your faction failed to bring any
type of Concordia to Nova Roma. Those of us who fought against the Coup,
that you and your faction tried force on NR, are doing our effort to bring
some kind positive reform out of the mess that your faction has created.
This will be done through hard work, compromise, more hard work, and even
more compromise. It is my sincere hope that the efforts we make (those of
us who remain) will bear fruit from the seeds of Concordia we are planting.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 6:41 PM, rory12001 <rory12001@...> wrote:

>
>
> Salve Anna;
> very interesting. Why isn't Cassius, the Pater Patriae the first (and to
> some the only), now Pontifex Maximus? I admit to being surprised as well...
> M. Hortensia Maior
>
>
> >
> > This is to all of those that had considered Piscinus to be a false PM,
> and Cassius the true PM who was wrongfully demoted, what is your opinion of
> the situation now? I know Octavious Gracchus used the incident as one of his
> reasons for resigning his titles, office, and citizenship.
> >
> > Perhaps it was just Piscinus you all didn't like, and the whole "cassius
> is the true PM" was just a smokescreen.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Anna Bucci
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Metellus,

I will inform about it as soon as I can. Thanks for your reaction .

Optime Vale

C.AQV.ROTA
P.S.: Please excuse some delays here as I am very busy as usual
towards Thanksgiving, Saturnalia and X-Mas too.

--- On Sat, 11/20/10, Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@...> wrote:

From: Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Senate Session Report/ I. Nov. 2763/TRIB. ROTA
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, November 20, 2010, 1:42 AM







 









Q Caecilius Metellus C Aquilio Rotae salutem dicit.



Salue, Tribune Rota.



While I thank you for reporting to the People the results of the

Senate session, there are a number of items whose content goes yet

unknown. Thus, I must ask what the text is of the items now passed by

the Senate, specifically Items III, VI, and VIII. I thank you in

advance for your swift response.



Cum Populo sit Fortuna Bona.























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE CONSUL ET SALVETE!
 
Thank you very much for your kind words. I will do my best.
 
When it comes about that ‘my best’, I use that opportunity of the consular speech to announce that among other very important priorities, one is to set the correct perception about the role of the Pontifex Maximus in the Nova Roman community.
Despite the fact the Pontifex Maximus is an example himself in many things, his function is more administrative, dedicated to the good function of the CP, the connection between the CP members, the CP members and you the people and, of course, the connection with the Nova Roman Senate.
Therefore, my Nova Roman co-fellows, there is nothing spectacular but more work. I count on your help and good support.

 
VALETE,
Sabinus
"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--- On Mon, 11/22/10, Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:


From: Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Your election as Pontifex maximus
To: "Iulius Sabinus" <iulius_sabinus@...>
Cc: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 22, 2010, 4:34 PM


 




Censori Iulio s.d.

Back in office after a short break, I am sincerely happy to state that the Collegium Pontificum has elected you Pontifex Maximus.

Please receive my sincere congratulations for this honor that a majority of the Collegium, and in a consensual mind if I am not wrong, gave you.

I will, if you do not mind, associate the whole Collegium to your name, for it was not easy, for our priests and flamines to do the long way that bring them to renounce considering our religious institutions as political tools at a service of a factio or of an peculiar ideology.

It has been a hard and long way, who took this year more than six months.

I have the odd impress being back in late January, when I called the religious institutions to place them at the service of our People, Senate and institutions, specially teaching, explaining, assisting us all in our daily life.

It is a new start for our Republic. On a negative way, we could say that 2/3 of the present year was lost. I prefer choosing the positive way to see things : it helped us all to be sure that we were decided to keep standing our common house, Nova Roma, and that the few efforts that we might brought to do each of us are a little price compared to this satisfaction stating that the community is still there, with new or renewed challenges, but with more experience for us all and a will to face them pragmatically and in the dialogue.

The agenda of the second session that you called immediately, just after your election, is a positive important step in this direction, for it seems embracing all the matters who are to dealt with at the present time.

Be our Gods with you, Pontifex maxime, and with our Collegia.

Vale sincerely Sabine,


P. Memmius Albucius
cos. maior











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iulia Iulio Sabino Pontifici Maximo S.P.D

Amice mi, my heart filled with joy upon hearing the news in a most profound way! I wish you all the best that fortune has to bestow and offer my hand to assist you in anyway I am able.
Saluto te et gratulator!

Julia

SALVE!
 
Thanks, Iulia. Your help is really appreciated. I count on your wisdom and great dedication.
 
VALE,
Sabinus

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--- On Mon, 11/22/10, luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:


From: luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Your election as Pontifex maximus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 22, 2010, 11:20 PM


 



Iulia Iulio Sabino Pontifici Maximo S.P.D

Amice mi, my heart filled with joy upon hearing the news in a most profound way! I wish you all the best that fortune has to bestow and offer my hand to assist you in anyway I am able.
Saluto te et gratulator!

Julia











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Tullia Scholastica scriba praetoria sociis peregrinisque bonae voluntatis
S.P.D.

We list moderators have received several notes from those who have been
forcibly unsubscribed from the Nova-Roma main list. All non-citizens
(ex-citizens, visitors, and perhaps prospective citizens) are being removed
from this list and moved to another one specifically for them on which
discussion of NR politics is forbidden. This list eventually will be only
for citizens.

Please note that I am not personally participating in this exercise, but
will try to answer legitimate messages sent to the owner¹s box. We have
been getting spam in there, and one gentleman who was unsubscribed
complained about that delivered by the ML itself; we did have someone whose
account had been hijacked and for some reason the moderated messages were
approved, for which I at least apologize (though I was not guilty).

Valete.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem X Kalendas Decembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"He had on his side the support of the august and venerable senate,
the sympathy of the people, the protection of the tribunes, and the
remembrance of the absent army. On the other side were pleaded the
unquestioned sovereign power of the Roman people and all the
traditions of military discipline, the Dictator's edict which had ever
been regarded as possessing divine sanction, and the example of
Manlius who had sacrificed his affection for his son to the interests
of the State. Brutus too, urged the Dictator, the founder of Roman
freedom, had done this before in the case of his two children. Now
fathers were indulgent, and aged men, easy-going in matters that do
not touch themselves, were spoiling the young men, teaching them to
despise authority and treating military discipline as of little
importance. He declared his intention of adhering to his purpose, he
would not abate a single jot of the punishment due to the man who had
fought in defiance of his injunctions' while the auspices were
doubtful and the religious sanction withheld. Whether the supreme
authority of the Dictator was to remain unimpaired did not depend on
him; he, L. Papirius, would do nothing to weaken its power. He
sincerely hoped that the tribunes would not use their authority,
itself inviolable, to violate by their interference the sovereignty of
the Roman government, and that the people to whom the appeal had been
made would not extinguish in his case especially Dictator and
Dictatorship alike. "If it did, it will not be L. Papirius but the
tribunes, the corrupt judgment of the people that posterity will
accuse and accuse in vain. When the bond of military discipline has
once been broken no soldier will obey his centurion, no centurion his
military tribune, no military tribune his general, no Master of the
Horse the Dictator. No one will have any reverence or respect for
either men or gods, no observance will be shown to the orders of
commanders or the auspices under which they acted. Without obtaining
leave of absence soldiers will roam at will through friendly or
hostile country; in total disregard of their military oath they will
abandon their standards when and where they chose, they will refuse to
assemble when ordered, they will fight regardless of day or night,
whether the ground were favourable or unfavourable, whether their
commander has given orders or not, keeping no formation, no order.
Military service, instead of being the solemn and sacred thing it is,
will resemble wild and disorderly brigandage. Expose yourselves,
tribunes, to all future ages as the authors of these evils! Make
yourselves personally responsible for the criminal recklessness of Q.
Fabius!" - Livy, History of Rome 8.34


"The great god Triton appeared before them, taking the form of a young
man. He picked up a clod of earth and held it out to them by way of
welcome, saying: `Accept this gift, my friends. Here and now, I have
no better one with which to welcome strangers such as you. But if you
have lost your bearings, like many a traveller in foreign parts, and
wish to cross the Libyan Sea, I will be your guide. My father Poseidon
has taught me all its secrets, and I am the king of this seaboard. You
may have heard of me though you live so far away - Eurypylos, born in
Libya, the country of wild beasts.' Euphemos gladly held his hand out
for the clod." - Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 4.1548

"When leaping from the prow where Lake Tritonis pours to the sea,
Euphemos took the gift, token of a host's friendship, from a god
[Triton] in mortal guise ho gave a clod of earth; and from aloft, to
mark the sign, a peal of thunder sounded from Zeus the father, son of
Kronos..." - Pindar, Odes Pythian 4.1

In ancient Greece, today was held in honor of the nymph Kalliste. Her
father the god Triton gave her to the Argonaut Euphemos as a clod of
earth, which during the sea voyage was washed overboard and formed the
island of Kalliste. It is told that when the Argonauts came to Libya
they were driven into the Syrtis, quicksands in Libya, carrying their
ship overland to Lake Tritonis. There was no return for ships, once
they had come far within Syrtis. Since there is no outlet from Lake
Tritonis to the sea, they could do nothing. Then the Argonauts
propitiated the gods with a golden tripod on the shore, and Triton
appeared to them in the form of a youth. Triton showed them the way
out, and presented the Argonaut Euphemus with a clod of earth. Later
Euphemus had a dream. It seemed to him that the clod of earth was
being suckled by milk, and that from it a little woman grew. And this
woman Euphemus desired and embraced in love, although he pitied her as
though she were a maiden whom he fed with his own milk. But then she
comforted him, saying that she was daughter of Triton and Libya, and
exhorting him to restore her to the sea near Anaphe. She then became
the island, which is now called Thera.


Today the Sun enters the zodiacal sign of Sagittarius. Sagittarius
(the archer) is commonly depicted as a centaur drawing a bow.
Sagittarius lies between Scorpius to the west and Capricornus to the
east. Its brighter stars form an easily recognizable teapot shape. In
Greek mythology, Sagittarius was the centaur Chiron, aiming his bow at
the Scorpion.


Valete bene!

Cato

Caupo omnibus in for S.P.D.



I echo that sentiment, Julia! Sabinus happened to be the first Nova Roman
with whom I had any contact when first applying for citizenship one year
ago, and it left a warm feeling forever after. Gratulor Sabino and to all in
Nova Roma. I love the new positive spirit in evidence. Bona fortuna for the
road ahead!



Valete,



L. Lucretius Caupo











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I will be leaving this group, it is shameful.

2010/11/22 A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica scriba praetoria sociis peregrinisque bonae
> voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
> We list moderators have received several notes from those who have been
> forcibly unsubscribed from the Nova-Roma main list. All non-citizens
> (ex-citizens, visitors, and perhaps prospective citizens) are being removed
> from this list and moved to another one specifically for them on which
> discussion of NR politics is forbidden. This list eventually will be only
> for citizens.
>
> Please note that I am not personally participating in this exercise, but
> will try to answer legitimate messages sent to the owner�s box. We have
> been getting spam in there, and one gentleman who was unsubscribed
> complained about that delivered by the ML itself; we did have someone whose
> account had been hijacked and for some reason the moderated messages were
> approved, for which I at least apologize (though I was not guilty).
>
> Valete.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE!
 
Thank you very much for your kind words and appreciation. I am honored.
I wish you good time in Nova Roma.
 
VALE,
Sabinus

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--- On Tue, 11/23/10, L. Lucretius Caupo <caupo@...> wrote:


From: L. Lucretius Caupo <caupo@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Your election as Pontifex maximus
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 23, 2010, 5:54 AM


 



Caupo omnibus in for S.P.D.

I echo that sentiment, Julia! Sabinus happened to be the first Nova Roman
with whom I had any contact when first applying for citizenship one year
ago, and it left a warm feeling forever after. Gratulor Sabino and to all in
Nova Roma. I love the new positive spirit in evidence. Bona fortuna for the
road ahead!

Valete,

L. Lucretius Caupo

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem IX Kalendas Decembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"The tribunes were dismayed and felt more anxiety now about their own
position than about the man who had sought their protection. They were
relieved from their heavy responsibility by the action of the people;
the whole Assembly appealed to the Dictator and besought him with
earnest entreaties that he would for their sakes forego inflicting
punishment on the Master of the Horse. When the tribunes saw the turn
matters had taken they added their entreaties also, and implored the
Dictator to make allowance for human frailty and to pardon Q. Fabius
for an error natural to youth, for he had already suffered punishment
enough. And now the youth himself, and even his father, abandoning all
further contention, fell on their knees and sought to turn aside the
Dictator's anger. At last, when silence was restored, the Dictator
spoke. "This, Quirites," he said, "is as it should be. Military
discipline has conquered, the supreme authority of government has
prevailed; it was a question whether either would survive this day's
proceedings. Q. Fabius is not acquitted of guilt in having fought
against his commander's orders, but though condemned as guilty he is
restored as a free gift to the people of Rome, to the authority of the
tribunes, who protected him not by exercising their legal powers but
by their intercession. Live, Q. Fabius; happier now in the unanimous
desire of your fellow-citizens to defend you than in the hour of
exultation after your victory! Live, though you dared to do what even
your father, had he been in the place of Papirius, could not have
pardoned! As for me, you shall be restored to favour whenever you
please. But to the Roman people to whom you owe your life you can make
no better return than to show that you have this day learnt the lesson
of submission to lawful commands in peace and in war." After
announcing that he would no longer detain the Master of the Horse he
left the rostra. The joyful senate, the still more joyful people,
flocked round the Dictator and the Master of the Horse, and
congratulated them on the result and then escorted them to their
homes. It was felt that military authority had been strengthened no
less by the peril in which Q. Fabius had been placed than by the
terrible punishment of young Manlius. It so happened that on each
occasion on which the Dictator was absent from the army, the Samnites
showed increased activity. M. Valerius, however, the second in
command, who was in charge of the camp, had the example of Q. Fabius
before his eyes and dreaded the stern Dictator's anger more than an
attack from the enemy. A foraging party were ambushed and cut to
pieces, and it was commonly believed that they could have been
relieved from the camp had not the commanding officer been deterred by
the peremptory orders he had received. This incident still further
embittered the feelings of the soldiers who were already incensed
against the Dictator owing to his implacable attitude towards Fabius
and then to his having pardoned him at the request of the people after
having refused to do so on their intercession." - Livy, History of
Rome 8.35



On this day in 626 B.C. Nabopolassar, the first king of the
Neo-Babylonian (or Chaldean) Empire, assumed the throne. After the
death of the last truly great Assyrian king Ashurbanipal in 627 B.C.,
Assyria was left with relatively ineffectual leadership; Nabopolassar
rose up against the Assyrians and drove them out of Babylon,
eventually enlisting the aid of the Medes to conquer and destroy the
Assyrian capital at Nineveh in 612 B.C. He waged war on Egypt from
610-605 B.C., when he was succeeded by probably the most famous of all
Babylonian kings, Nebuchadnezzar.



"'I shall give that novice a gift,' said Weland. 'A gift that shall do
him good the wide world over and Old England after him. Blow up my
fire, Old Thing, while I get the iron for my last task.' Then he made
a sword – a dark-grey, wavy-lined sword – and I blew the fire while he
hammered. By Oak, Ash, and Thorn, I tell you, Weland was a Smith of
the Gods! He cooled that sword in running water twice, and the third
time he cooled it in the evening dew, and he laid it out in the
moonlight and said Runes (that's charms) over it, and he carved Runes
of Prophecy on the blade. 'Old Thing,' he said, 'this is the best
blade that Weland ever made. Even the user will never know how good it
is.'" - Sir Walter Scott, "Kenilworth" (1821)

Today was the first day of Winter under the Old Calendar, and it was
held in honor of Weyland Smith in the British Isles. Weyland (also
spelled Wayland, Weland and Watlende) is the mythical smith-god of the
Saxon immigrants into Britain. He is synonymous with the
North-Germanic/Norse Volundr of the Volundarkvidda, a poem in the
Poetic Edda.

Weyland had two brothers, Egil and Slagfidur (or Slagfinn). In one
version of the myth, the three brothers lived with three Valkyries:
Olrun, Alvit and Svanhvit. After nine years, the Valkyries left their
lovers. Egil and Slagfidur followed, never to return. In another
version, Weyland married the swan maiden Hervor, and they had a son,
Heime; Hervor later left him. In both versions, his love left him with
a ring; in the former myth, he forged seven hundred duplicates of this
ring.

At a later point in time, he was captured in his sleep by king Nidud
in Nerike who ordered him hamstrung and imprisoned on the island of
Saeverstod. There he was forced to forge items for the king. Weyland's
wife's ring was given to the king's daughter, Bodvild. Nidud wore
Weyland's sword. For revenge, Weyland killed the king's sons when
they visited him in secret, fashioned goblets from their skulls,
jewels from their eyes, and a brooch from their teeth. He sent the
goblets to the king, the jewels to the queen and the brooch to the
kings' daughter. When Bodvild took her ring to him to be mended, he
took the ring and seduced her, fathering a son and escaping on wings he made.

Weyland forged the sword Balmung, and the armor in which Beowulf
fought Grendel. In Teutonic legend he is also said to have forged a
sword for his son Heime that was wielded by Miming and then by Hodur.
He is sometimes said to be the ruler of the dark elves (svartalfar).

He is particularly associated with Wayland's Smithy, a burial mound in
Oxfordshire. This was named by the Saxons, but the megalithic mound
significantly predates them. It is from this association that the
superstition came about that a horse left there overnight with a small
silver coin (a groat) would be shod by morning.


Valete bene!

Cato