Ave Matt Hucke :

> Thanks! I have my principles, which I suspect are somewhat incompatible with the prevailing mentality in Nova Roma...

They are not.
Your so-called "principles" look like the populism principles by which you encourage the people suspicions towards your "victims" without any evidences.

I noticed, for example, your suspicions against future election good working, not only suspicions, you wrote:
" Apparently this election is going to be even more of a farce than I'd been expecting."

All populist politics against the good faith of rules and integrity of those who will manage those elections use the same populist arguments and are waiting for any little mistake to make scandals.

You look like defend the interests of Scholastica not by principles, as you said, but, without knowing the *rerum causae*, as populist politics do in all countries. You could apply for the "The Sun" newspaper.

> Me too! Justice for Scholastica is what I want now, but that's not
> likely to happen, so after that I'll just watch the train wreck.

Lol.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Kalendis Decembribus P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Cato Octavio omnibusque in foro SPD

So. If Tullia Scholastica is not allowed to run, it becomes the fault of those of us who declared our candidacies at the beginning?

I'm sorry, Octavius, if you find my claim that Scholastica's sudden appearance and subsequent claims disingenuous, but I stand by my words. Disingenuous means "lacking in frankness, candor, or sincerity; falsely or hypocritically ingenuous; insincere", and I believe that at least one, if not more, of those meanings characterize this affair. Again, the decision to run for the office of consul - co-president of the corporation - is not one that is (or should) be taken lightly, and I have *never* known Scholastica to be anything but one of the most detailed people I have ever met. That this would somehow escape her knowledge while preparing to run for consul is laughable.

That she is "unable to count" is her own declaration. Pretending that it is a slur being used to malign her is to simply ignore her own words. It has nothing to do with her mental capacity, unless she herself is claiming some incapacitation.

You asked that several of us request the consul to change his decision; we have done so, and given our reasons for doing so. That we have done so in our own way is apparently not sufficient for you - we must absolutely adhere to your way of thinking in order to satisfy your paranoia. This smacks more of simple hysteria than a rational, considered understanding of the senatus consultum ultimam and our law, and I refuse to bow to threats of refusal to use your technical abilities simply to make you feel better.

Yes, when you say "either agree with me the way I want you to, or I will not work with you on the IT side of things", I consider it blackmail of a type, and both morally reprehensible and unacceptable.

The consul is in the right regarding the law, and in my - admittedly grudging - request that he reconsider his stance, you do not seem to understand or care that *I* am compromising my own principles, in particular my desire to adhere to the law for a change in our governance, in calling for her name to be included in the consular race. I even explained my utter abhorrence of involuntary servitude, a phrase which you picked up nicely.

You may not care about my principles, but I do.

Valete,

Cato

Cato Liviae sal.

I understand what you're saying, but this has no relevance.

If Nova Roma is important to you, if you see in her the seeds or fundamentals of what you are eventually attempting to accomplish, you should be putting yourself at her service, not standing aloof and tossing what you think are devastating psychological bombs at those of us who are trying to actually accomplish something.

Those of us who are running are anything but apathetic or inactive, and to claim that the future can only hold what the past has wrought is not only short-sighted by utterly incomprehensible for a woman with your obvious intellect.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Cato,
> legitimate question. I do not stand for office partly because I have been
> "burnt out". I take my offices seriously and do not take it lightly when I
> see it's not possible to get anything accomplished because of the inactivity
> or active boycott on the past of other magistrates.
>
> Then there's the matter that I don't think Nova Roma in its current form is
> a useful venue for Roman religion. Religion isn't my only motivating factor
> or my only "Roman" interest, but it is important enough for me to decide not
> to waste my energies on an organization that has no chance to promote it.
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cato" <catoinnyc@>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 4:36 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De suffragiis numerandis
>
>
> Cato Liviae Plautae sal.
>
> I ask you directly: why did *you* not stand for office? You, Livia, could
> have volunteered your candidacy for any number of offices. Yet, instead,
> you choose to accuse and dissemble. It is so much easier to sit back and
> condemn than it is to actually *do* something, isn't it?
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Salve Octavi,
> > very well expressed. Welcome to the Totalitarian Banana Republic of Nova
> > Roma! Sit back and enjoy the show!
> >
> > Optime vale,
> > Livia
> >
> > >
> > > Ah, so now she's disingenuous too. There was a published time period in
> > > which candidates should declare candidacy - how DARE she wait until late
> > > in that time period to announce!
> > >
> > > She should have read between the lines and known it was acceptable only
> > > to announce *before* the surprise appointments. Obviously, someone not
> > > in constant telepathic communication with the Consul-without-colleague
> > > is not fit for any of the offices other than those chosen for them by
> > > the Commissar.
> > >
> > > Vale, Octavius.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est Kalendis Decembribus; hic dies nefastus est.

"Night surprised them while they were lamenting over their situation
rather than consulting how to meet it. The different temperaments of
the men came out; some exclaimed: "Let us break through the
barricades, scale the mountain slopes, force our way through the
forest, try every way where we can carry arms. Only let us get at the
enemy whom we have beaten for now nearly thirty years; all places will
be smooth and easy to a Roman fighting against the perfidious
Samnite." Others answered: "Where are we to go? How are we to get
there? Are we preparing to move the mountains from their seat? How
will you get at the enemy as long as these peaks hang over us? Armed
and unarmed, brave and cowardly we are all alike trapped and
conquered. The enemy will not even offer us the chance of an
honourable death by the sword, he will finish the war without moving
from his seat." Indifferent to food, unable to sleep, they talked in
this way through the night. Even the Samnites were unable to make up
their minds what to do under such fortunate circumstances. It was
unanimously agreed to write to Herennius, the captain-general's
father, and ask his advice. He was now advanced in years and had given
up all public business, civil as well as military, but though his
physical powers were failing his intellect was as sound and clear as
ever. He had already heard that the Roman armies were hemmed in
between the two passes at the Caudine Forks, and when his son's
courier asked for his advice he gave it as his opinion that the whole
force ought to be at once allowed to depart uninjured. This advice was
rejected and the courier was sent back to consult him again. He now
advised that they should every one be put to death. On receiving these
replies, contradicting each other like the ambiguous utterances of an
oracle, his son's first impression was that his father's mental powers
had become impaired through his physical weakness. However, he yielded
to the unanimous wish and invited his father to the council of war.
The old man, we are told, at once complied and was conveyed in a wagon
to the camp. After taking his seat in the council, it became clear
from what he said that he had not changed his mind, but he explained
his reasons for the advice he gave. He believed that by taking the
course he first proposed, which he considered the best, he was
establishing a durable peace and friendship with a most powerful
people in treating them with such exceptional kindness; by adopting
the second he was postponing war for many generations, for it would
take that time for Rome to recover her strength painfully and slowly
after the loss of two armies. There was no third course. When his son
and the other chiefs went on to ask him what would happen if a middle
course were taken, and they were dismissed unhurt but under such
conditions as by the rights of war are imposed on the vanquished, he
replied: 'That is just the policy which neither procures friends nor
rids us of enemies. Once let men whom you have exasperated by
ignominious treatment live and you will find out your mistake. The
Romans are a nation who know not how to remain quiet under defeat.
Whatever disgrace this present extremity burns into their souls will
rankle there for ever, and will allow them no rest till they have made
you pay for it many times over.'" - Livy, History of Rome 9.3


"I begin to sing about Poseidon, the great god, mover of the earth and
fruitless sea, god of the deep who is also lord of Helicon and wide
Aegae. A two-fold office the gods allotted you, O Shaker of the Earth,
to be a tamer of horses and a saviour of ships!" - Homeric Hymn to
Poseidon II.1-5

"Neptuno has ago gratias meo patrono, qui salsis locis incolit
piscolentis, quom me ex suis locis pulchre ornatum expedivit, reducem
et tempulis, plurima praeda onustum salute horiae." (Thanks be to
Neptune my patron, who dwells in the fish-teeming salt sea, for
speeding me homeward from his sacred abode, well laden and in a good
hour) - Plautus, Rodens 906-910

"Hear, Poseidon, ruler of the sea profound, whose liquid grasp begirds
the solid ground; who, at the bottom of the stormy main, dark and
deep-bosomed holdest they watery reign. Thy awful hand the brazen
trident bears, and sea's utmost bound thy will reveres. Thee I invoke,
whose steeds the foam divide, from whose dark locks the briny waters
glide; shoe voice, loud sounding through the roaring deep, drives all
its billows in a raging heap; when fiercely riding through the boiling
sea, thy hoarse command the trembling waves obey. Earth-shaking,
dark-haired God, the liquid plains, the third division, fate to thee
ordains. `Tis thine, cerulean daimon, to survey, well-pleased, the
monsters of the ocean play. Confirm earth's basis, and with prosperous
gales waft ships along, and swell the spacious sails; add gentle
peace, and fair-haired health beside, and pour abundance in a
blameless tide." - Orphic Hymn 17 to Poseidon

Today is held in honor of the god Neptune, known to the Greeks as
Poseidon. Neptune is the second-born son of Cronus, ruler of the race
of gods known as The Titans, and his wife, the Titan-goddess of
fertility, Rhea. Fearing that he would be dethroned by one of his
offspring just as he had overthrown his own father Ouranos, Cronus
imprisoned each of his own offspring in Tartarus, the darkest section
of Hades, the Olympian underworld, as soon as he or she was born.
Appalled, the children's mother Rhea gave birth to Zeus without
Cronus's knowledge and gave him to the primeval Earth goddess Gaea to
be raised in secret. The adult Zeus freed his siblings and led them in
a successful revolt against Cronus and the Titans.

While it is believed that Neptune was among the offspring of Cronus
and Rhea imprisoned in Tartarus until later adulthood, Neptune, like
Zeus, had actually escaped this fate when his mother Rhea gave birth
to him in Mantineia, Arcadia (in the land known now as Greece). Rhea
hid Neptune who was then raised by other gods on the island of Rhodes
who taught him how to wield his mystical powers just as the Cyclopes
taught Zeus how to wield his own. Approached by the adult Zeus,
Neptune helped him free their other siblings and gather allies against
Cronus and the other Titans. The war against the Titans lasted for a
full decade ending with Zeus and his faction emerging victorious.

After Zeus became ruler of the pocket dimension of Olympus and of the
race of Olympian gods, he forged covenants with his elder brothers
Neptune and Pluto. Pluto, while still subject to Zeus's edicts, was
allowed to become the king of the Olympian underworld without any
interference from Zeus concerning the internal affairs of his kingdom.
Likewise, Neptune was allowed free reign over the vast oceans and the
various water-gods occupying the then ancient Grecian sphere of
influence. As a symbol of his station as the prime sea-god Neptune
carries an enchanted trident of various properties.

Neptune took as his wife the goddess Amphitrite, a daughter of the
elder water deities Nereus and Doris. He and Amphitrite had two
daughters Rhode and Benthiscya and a son Triton whose godly power
enabled him to assume the form of a merman. However, Neptune was
similar to his younger brother Zeus in that he had several affairs
with both mortal Earth women and Olympian goddesses and thus fathered
numerous offspring. Like Zeus, his children were sometimes born as
mortals or immortals. By his union with the Gorgon Medusa he fathered
the warrior Chrysaor and the magical flying horse, Pegasus. Akin to
Zeus who transformed himself into Amphitryon of Troezen to mate with
his wife Alcmena who became the mother of the demigod Hercules,
Neptune once disguised himself as the husband of the mortal woman
Aethra and fathered the Athenian hero Theseus. Other various offspring
of Neptune's include: Eumolpus, the Giant Sinis, the Cyclopes
Polyphemus, Orion, King Amycus, the shape-shifting god Proteus,
Agenor, Belus, Pelias, and Busiris who once became the King of Egypt.
Poseidon also had two twin giant sons, Otus and Ephialtes, who once
attempted to storm Olympus and overthrow Zeus and the Olympians before
meeting their deaths at each other's own hands in a hunting accident.

One of the most infamous affairs of Neptune involves his sister,
Demeter, Olympian goddess of the harvest. Neptune pursued Demeter who,
although first resisted his advances, eventually submitted to him. The
pair united, Demeter in the form of a mare and Neptune in the form of
a horse, and became the parents of Arion, the god of horses and
Despoena, the goddess of fruit.

Neptune was known to quarrel with his fellow Olympians to act as the
patron of particular Greek cities. For example, the sea-god was once
involved in a competition between himself and his niece, the goddess
of war Athena, for the city of Athens. To convince the people to name
the city after him and make him their patron god, Neptune used his
magical trident to produce a flowing spring. However, Athena won as a
result of giving the Athenians the far more useful olive tree (the
flowing spring was salt water). Neptune could also be a very moody
sea-god and at times used his powers to create earthquakes, floods and
storms to inflict fear and/or punishment on people as revenge. Though
difficult at times, Neptune could be cooperative as it was he who
aided the Greeks during the Trojan War before Zeus forbade the
Olympians from participating in it. After the Trojan War ended,
Neptune became angered against the hero Odysseus also known as
Ulysses, when he blinded the sea-god's son, the Cyclopes Polyphemus.
In his rage against this act Neptune saw to it that Odysseus's journey
back to Ithaca was full of trials and difficulties. Indeed it took
Odysseus 10 years to reach Ithaca after he and his men had departed
from Troy.


Today is also dedicated to the goddess Pietas. Pietas is usually
translated as "duty" or "devotion," and it simultaneously suggests
duty to the gods and duty to family - which is expanded to duty to the
community and duty to the state thanks to the analogy between the
family and the state, conventional in the ancient world. Vergil's hero
Aeneas embodies this virtue, and is particularly emblematic of it in
book II of the Aeneid when he flees burning Troy bearing his father on
his back and carrying his household gods. Pietas' symbol is the stork.


Valete bene!

Cato

Q. Valerius Tulliae sal.

Scholastica dixerat: Are you also having problems with the significance of the word NO? I did indeed turn this appointment down, politely.

I can't make a comment on this matter until I've or someone trustworthy has seen the evidence with my or their own eyes.

Also, the last sentence was irony. *That* shouldn't be difficult for you to understand, being someone of letters rather than numbers.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica Q. Valerio Poplicolae quiritibus iterum S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > Q. Valerius C. Tullio sal.
> >
> > I said nothing earlier, but this is symptomatic of Octavius. Nevermind that
> > everyone thinks Scholastica should be able to run. Nevermind that Octavius
> > pronounced Albucius guilty beforehand. Nevermind that Scholastica never turned
> > down the appointment.
> >
> > ATS: Are you also having problems with the significance of the word NO?
> > I did indeed turn this appointment down, politely.
> >
> >
> > Octavius is gonna fight for freedom and democracy!
> >
> > ATS: Good thing someone does.
> >
> > Vale.
> >
> > Vale et valete.
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , Gaius
> > Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus Marco Octavio Graccho S.P.D.
> >> >
> >> > Ave!
> >> >
> >> > What I don't understand is your level of bitterness about the whole
> >> > situation, honestly. Most of the people you are arguing against agree with
> >> > your position - that A. Tullia Scholastica MUST be permitted to run for
> >> > consul. Not all agree with how you got the that position (there are those
> >> > with crazy theories of some vast Piscine conspiracy behind her run, or that
> >> > she was simply lazy or incompetent in not taking the correct steps to
> >> > prepare for her run), but they have reached the same basic conclusion - she
> >> > MUST be allowed to run.
> >> >
> >> > Even several of those who insist "As far as i can see, the law was follwed"
> >> > STILL agree that A. Tullia Scholastica MUST be allowed to run.
> >> >
> >> > I actually agree with you on almost all points, Octavi! But I am not bitter
> >> > about those with contrary opinions - as long as we agree that the decent
> >> > thing is to allow A. Tullia Scholastica to run for consul.
> >> >
> >> > For the record, I endorse Cato and Venator. Two people more dedicated to
> >> > Nova Roma and her Constitution are hard to imagine. For many years I have
> >> > been saying that a joint Cato/Venator consulship was something I hoped to
> >> > see, and now this year they are both running! As mush as I respect my
> >> cousin
> >> > Scholastica as a fellow Latinist and member of gens Tullia, I cannot but
> >> > honor my commitment to Cato and Venator. So she would not be receiving my
> >> > vote - but I have voiced my opinion that she MUST be allowed to run. If I
> >> > may paraphrase you, her exclusion may or may not have been legal, but it
> >> > certainly wasn't decent.
> >> >
> >> > Vale!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salvete omnes!

>>
>> Octavius is gonna fight for freedom and democracy!
>>

Well, apparently there's an end to that, because Octavius has been ejected
from the Forum at 21:01 GMT yesterday.

Optime valete,
Livia

Livia Catoni sal.

I see I have not been clear enough: I no longer see in Nova Roma the seeds
or fundamentals of what I am eventually attempting to accomplish.

Optime vale,
Livia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cato" <catoinnyc@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 6:32 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De suffragiis numerandis


Cato Liviae sal.

I understand what you're saying, but this has no relevance.

If Nova Roma is important to you, if you see in her the seeds or
fundamentals of what you are eventually attempting to accomplish, you should
be putting yourself at her service, not standing aloof and tossing what you
think are devastating psychological bombs at those of us who are trying to
actually accomplish something.

Those of us who are running are anything but apathetic or inactive, and to
claim that the future can only hold what the past has wrought is not only
short-sighted by utterly incomprehensible for a woman with your obvious
intellect.

Vale,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...>
wrote:
>
> Salve Cato,
> legitimate question. I do not stand for office partly because I have been
> "burnt out". I take my offices seriously and do not take it lightly when I
> see it's not possible to get anything accomplished because of the
> inactivity
> or active boycott on the past of other magistrates.
>
> Then there's the matter that I don't think Nova Roma in its current form
> is
> a useful venue for Roman religion. Religion isn't my only motivating
> factor
> or my only "Roman" interest, but it is important enough for me to decide
> not
> to waste my energies on an organization that has no chance to promote it.
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cato" <catoinnyc@>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 4:36 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De suffragiis numerandis
>
>
> Cato Liviae Plautae sal.
>
> I ask you directly: why did *you* not stand for office? You, Livia, could
> have volunteered your candidacy for any number of offices. Yet, instead,
> you choose to accuse and dissemble. It is so much easier to sit back and
> condemn than it is to actually *do* something, isn't it?
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Salve Octavi,
> > very well expressed. Welcome to the Totalitarian Banana Republic of Nova
> > Roma! Sit back and enjoy the show!
> >
> > Optime vale,
> > Livia
> >
> > >
> > > Ah, so now she's disingenuous too. There was a published time period
> > > in
> > > which candidates should declare candidacy - how DARE she wait until
> > > late
> > > in that time period to announce!
> > >
> > > She should have read between the lines and known it was acceptable
> > > only
> > > to announce *before* the surprise appointments. Obviously, someone
> > > not
> > > in constant telepathic communication with the Consul-without-colleague
> > > is not fit for any of the offices other than those chosen for them by
> > > the Commissar.
> > >
> > > Vale, Octavius.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Q. Valerius sal.

Is he not a citizen anymore then? If not, then good riddance. Perhaps we can now peacefully sue the consul to allow Scholastica to run if she did in fact tell him that she refused the appointment. Farewell to histrionics!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes!
>
> >>
> >> Octavius is gonna fight for freedom and democracy!
> >>
>
> Well, apparently there's an end to that, because Octavius has been ejected
> from the Forum at 21:01 GMT yesterday.
>
> Optime valete,
> Livia
>

Q. Valerius sal.

So why are you here then?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Livia Catoni sal.
>
> I see I have not been clear enough: I no longer see in Nova Roma the seeds
> or fundamentals of what I am eventually attempting to accomplish.
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cato" <catoinnyc@>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 6:32 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De suffragiis numerandis
>
>
> Cato Liviae sal.
>
> I understand what you're saying, but this has no relevance.
>
> If Nova Roma is important to you, if you see in her the seeds or
> fundamentals of what you are eventually attempting to accomplish, you should
> be putting yourself at her service, not standing aloof and tossing what you
> think are devastating psychological bombs at those of us who are trying to
> actually accomplish something.
>
> Those of us who are running are anything but apathetic or inactive, and to
> claim that the future can only hold what the past has wrought is not only
> short-sighted by utterly incomprehensible for a woman with your obvious
> intellect.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Cato,
> > legitimate question. I do not stand for office partly because I have been
> > "burnt out". I take my offices seriously and do not take it lightly when I
> > see it's not possible to get anything accomplished because of the
> > inactivity
> > or active boycott on the past of other magistrates.
> >
> > Then there's the matter that I don't think Nova Roma in its current form
> > is
> > a useful venue for Roman religion. Religion isn't my only motivating
> > factor
> > or my only "Roman" interest, but it is important enough for me to decide
> > not
> > to waste my energies on an organization that has no chance to promote it.
> >
> > Optime vale,
> > Livia
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cato" <catoinnyc@>
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 4:36 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De suffragiis numerandis
> >
> >
> > Cato Liviae Plautae sal.
> >
> > I ask you directly: why did *you* not stand for office? You, Livia, could
> > have volunteered your candidacy for any number of offices. Yet, instead,
> > you choose to accuse and dissemble. It is so much easier to sit back and
> > condemn than it is to actually *do* something, isn't it?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Salve Octavi,
> > > very well expressed. Welcome to the Totalitarian Banana Republic of Nova
> > > Roma! Sit back and enjoy the show!
> > >
> > > Optime vale,
> > > Livia
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Ah, so now she's disingenuous too. There was a published time period
> > > > in
> > > > which candidates should declare candidacy - how DARE she wait until
> > > > late
> > > > in that time period to announce!
> > > >
> > > > She should have read between the lines and known it was acceptable
> > > > only
> > > > to announce *before* the surprise appointments. Obviously, someone
> > > > not
> > > > in constant telepathic communication with the Consul-without-colleague
> > > > is not fit for any of the offices other than those chosen for them by
> > > > the Commissar.
> > > >
> > > > Vale, Octavius.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Lentulus Memmio cos. sal.


Sorry for the delayed answering of this letter.

>>>> My ambitions are more modest, unfortunately : at the time we miss candidates for quaestorial and vigintisexviri positions, I have no ambitions to allow our Republic, by my sole own morale authority – if ever I had one – to have contested elections. <<<

That is a strange sentence. One of the strongest moral concerns in any republic, or in any organization, is to have free, contested and non-manipulated elections, with free and equal chance for everyone to run for office. It's the citizens who decide in what office they want to serve, you as consul have but only one tool to determine what office they seek: encouragement and suggestion - but *not* forcing.

>>>> Second and last, dear Lentule, my relations with History are, like with our Gods, very "low profile" ones. <<<<<

As our consul, you are an important part of Nova Roma history. You should set up a good example. Do you prefer to set up an example for our future consuls that they can refuse candidates?

Well, it is (?) now a precedent and a possibility to happen again. Unless you reconsider (wisely) and allow a free election.

>>>> I do not think that History will care much of my acts, <<<<

That is a wrong approach from a consul: you need to try with all your efforts to leave a positive example after your consulship, and it is in your power to do so. With rejecting a candidate who is not favored by you, you are setting up a very bad and dangerous precedent, unseen before. Lest assured, History will care much of this act of you.

>>>> but, if It did, I think that she will be fair, and will record the current chapter objectively, and assign it a place, probably relative, besides the events that we lived this year, specially the failed coup of July. <<<<

What you very colorfully and rhetorically call a "coup", was in fact an attempt to appoint a dictator which position is a fully constitutional and regular office in our Constitution. The calling of the senate was deemed irregular, and much later, Marinus found that the Constitution conflicts with Maine State law regarding this question, and thus refused the office. In that voting, 15 out of the 20 voting senators voted for appointing Marinus as dictator, one voted "no", 4 abstained. Some (4 senators) changed their votes later. If there was ANYTHING wrong with that session, it was the way how the senate was convoked irregularly. But the dictatorship in NR is a constitutional office. Now, how can this be called a coup? At worst, it could be called an illegal session.

Well, now however, we have a consul predetermining the results of a consular election, not allowing choice among candidates. Using as colorful and rhetoric exaggerations as you did, you may be preparing now the real coup.

>>>> Tullia has proved, last year when she declined my proposal to run for consulate with me, that time had not real importance for her and that she was ready to renounce the immediate, but probably minor, opportunities that History may put in her hand. <<<<

Last year you were all the time assuring your friends, including me, that you would run together with Quintilianus.

If you wanted to be Scholastica's colleague last year, why don't you allow her to try with the consulship this year?

What is the objective of this whole stubborness now?

Literally everyone is begging you to allow the candidacy of Scholastica. What do you accomplish with this insisting on her refusal?
A new civil conflict?

You have the power to change what is wrong. People said they found - I'm quoting - "abhorring, revolting, disgusting" what you are doing.

You have the power to save us from another "civil war":

1) If you want a contested election, you accept her resignation, and you allow A. Tullia Scholastica to run for the consulship;

2) If you don't want a free election, you don't allow it.


The decision is yours, but people will remember, and maybe they'll also imitate the bad example.

Lentulus, this issue is NOT going to devolve into a civil war at all. So,
you can get that issue out of your mind. You are reaching. Nova Roma will
have the elections and new corporate officers will take office in January
1st.

We had enough of a civil war from the Piscina faction.

Vale,

Sulla

On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 6:06 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
>
> Lentulus Memmio cos. sal.
>
> Sorry for the delayed answering of this letter.
>
> >>>> My ambitions are more modest, unfortunately : at the time we miss
> candidates for quaestorial and vigintisexviri positions, I have no ambitions
> to allow our Republic, by my sole own morale authority � if ever I had one �
> to have contested elections. <<<
>
> That is a strange sentence. One of the strongest moral concerns in any
> republic, or in any organization, is to have free, contested and
> non-manipulated elections, with free and equal chance for everyone to run
> for office. It's the citizens who decide in what office they want to serve,
> you as consul have but only one tool to determine what office they seek:
> encouragement and suggestion - but *not* forcing.
>
> >>>> Second and last, dear Lentule, my relations with History are, like
> with our Gods, very "low profile" ones. <<<<<
>
> As our consul, you are an important part of Nova Roma history. You should
> set up a good example. Do you prefer to set up an example for our future
> consuls that they can refuse candidates?
>
> Well, it is (?) now a precedent and a possibility to happen again. Unless
> you reconsider (wisely) and allow a free election.
>
> >>>> I do not think that History will care much of my acts, <<<<
>
> That is a wrong approach from a consul: you need to try with all your
> efforts to leave a positive example after your consulship, and it is in your
> power to do so. With rejecting a candidate who is not favored by you, you
> are setting up a very bad and dangerous precedent, unseen before. Lest
> assured, History will care much of this act of you.
>
> >>>> but, if It did, I think that she will be fair, and will record the
> current chapter objectively, and assign it a place, probably relative,
> besides the events that we lived this year, specially the failed coup of
> July. <<<<
>
> What you very colorfully and rhetorically call a "coup", was in fact an
> attempt to appoint a dictator which position is a fully constitutional and
> regular office in our Constitution. The calling of the senate was deemed
> irregular, and much later, Marinus found that the Constitution conflicts
> with Maine State law regarding this question, and thus refused the office.
> In that voting, 15 out of the 20 voting senators voted for appointing
> Marinus as dictator, one voted "no", 4 abstained. Some (4 senators) changed
> their votes later. If there was ANYTHING wrong with that session, it was the
> way how the senate was convoked irregularly. But the dictatorship in NR is a
> constitutional office. Now, how can this be called a coup? At worst, it
> could be called an illegal session.
>
> Well, now however, we have a consul predetermining the results of a
> consular election, not allowing choice among candidates. Using as colorful
> and rhetoric exaggerations as you did, you may be preparing now the real
> coup.
>
> >>>> Tullia has proved, last year when she declined my proposal to run for
> consulate with me, that time had not real importance for her and that she
> was ready to renounce the immediate, but probably minor, opportunities that
> History may put in her hand. <<<<
>
> Last year you were all the time assuring your friends, including me, that
> you would run together with Quintilianus.
>
> If you wanted to be Scholastica's colleague last year, why don't you allow
> her to try with the consulship this year?
>
> What is the objective of this whole stubborness now?
>
> Literally everyone is begging you to allow the candidacy of Scholastica.
> What do you accomplish with this insisting on her refusal?
> A new civil conflict?
>
> You have the power to change what is wrong. People said they found - I'm
> quoting - "abhorring, revolting, disgusting" what you are doing.
>
> You have the power to save us from another "civil war":
>
> 1) If you want a contested election, you accept her resignation, and you
> allow A. Tullia Scholastica to run for the consulship;
>
> 2) If you don't want a free election, you don't allow it.
>
> The decision is yours, but people will remember, and maybe they'll also
> imitate the bad example.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Liviae sal.

Then why are you here?

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Livia Catoni sal.
>
> I see I have not been clear enough: I no longer see in Nova Roma the seeds
> or fundamentals of what I am eventually attempting to accomplish.
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cato" <catoinnyc@>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 6:32 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De suffragiis numerandis
>
>
> Cato Liviae sal.
>
> I understand what you're saying, but this has no relevance.
>
> If Nova Roma is important to you, if you see in her the seeds or
> fundamentals of what you are eventually attempting to accomplish, you should
> be putting yourself at her service, not standing aloof and tossing what you
> think are devastating psychological bombs at those of us who are trying to
> actually accomplish something.
>
> Those of us who are running are anything but apathetic or inactive, and to
> claim that the future can only hold what the past has wrought is not only
> short-sighted by utterly incomprehensible for a woman with your obvious
> intellect.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Cato,
> > legitimate question. I do not stand for office partly because I have been
> > "burnt out". I take my offices seriously and do not take it lightly when I
> > see it's not possible to get anything accomplished because of the
> > inactivity
> > or active boycott on the past of other magistrates.
> >
> > Then there's the matter that I don't think Nova Roma in its current form
> > is
> > a useful venue for Roman religion. Religion isn't my only motivating
> > factor
> > or my only "Roman" interest, but it is important enough for me to decide
> > not
> > to waste my energies on an organization that has no chance to promote it.
> >
> > Optime vale,
> > Livia
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cato" <catoinnyc@>
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 4:36 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De suffragiis numerandis
> >
> >
> > Cato Liviae Plautae sal.
> >
> > I ask you directly: why did *you* not stand for office? You, Livia, could
> > have volunteered your candidacy for any number of offices. Yet, instead,
> > you choose to accuse and dissemble. It is so much easier to sit back and
> > condemn than it is to actually *do* something, isn't it?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Salve Octavi,
> > > very well expressed. Welcome to the Totalitarian Banana Republic of Nova
> > > Roma! Sit back and enjoy the show!
> > >
> > > Optime vale,
> > > Livia
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Ah, so now she's disingenuous too. There was a published time period
> > > > in
> > > > which candidates should declare candidacy - how DARE she wait until
> > > > late
> > > > in that time period to announce!
> > > >
> > > > She should have read between the lines and known it was acceptable
> > > > only
> > > > to announce *before* the surprise appointments. Obviously, someone
> > > > not
> > > > in constant telepathic communication with the Consul-without-colleague
> > > > is not fit for any of the offices other than those chosen for them by
> > > > the Commissar.
> > > >
> > > > Vale, Octavius.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Salve Poplicola,
I already answered that question in one of my answers to Octavius, and also
in my previous answer to Cato.

Vale,
Livia

----- Original Message -----
From: "qvalerius" <q.valerius.poplicola@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 12:20 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De suffragiis numerandis


Q. Valerius sal.

So why are you here then?

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...>
wrote:
>
> Livia Catoni sal.
>
> I see I have not been clear enough: I no longer see in Nova Roma the seeds
> or fundamentals of what I am eventually attempting to accomplish.
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cato" <catoinnyc@>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 6:32 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De suffragiis numerandis
>
>
> Cato Liviae sal.
>
> I understand what you're saying, but this has no relevance.
>
> If Nova Roma is important to you, if you see in her the seeds or
> fundamentals of what you are eventually attempting to accomplish, you
> should
> be putting yourself at her service, not standing aloof and tossing what
> you
> think are devastating psychological bombs at those of us who are trying to
> actually accomplish something.
>
> Those of us who are running are anything but apathetic or inactive, and to
> claim that the future can only hold what the past has wrought is not only
> short-sighted by utterly incomprehensible for a woman with your obvious
> intellect.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Cato,
> > legitimate question. I do not stand for office partly because I have
> > been
> > "burnt out". I take my offices seriously and do not take it lightly when
> > I
> > see it's not possible to get anything accomplished because of the
> > inactivity
> > or active boycott on the past of other magistrates.
> >
> > Then there's the matter that I don't think Nova Roma in its current form
> > is
> > a useful venue for Roman religion. Religion isn't my only motivating
> > factor
> > or my only "Roman" interest, but it is important enough for me to decide
> > not
> > to waste my energies on an organization that has no chance to promote
> > it.
> >
> > Optime vale,
> > Livia
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Cato" <catoinnyc@>
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 4:36 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De suffragiis numerandis
> >
> >
> > Cato Liviae Plautae sal.
> >
> > I ask you directly: why did *you* not stand for office? You, Livia,
> > could
> > have volunteered your candidacy for any number of offices. Yet,
> > instead,
> > you choose to accuse and dissemble. It is so much easier to sit back
> > and
> > condemn than it is to actually *do* something, isn't it?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Salve Octavi,
> > > very well expressed. Welcome to the Totalitarian Banana Republic of
> > > Nova
> > > Roma! Sit back and enjoy the show!
> > >
> > > Optime vale,
> > > Livia
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Ah, so now she's disingenuous too. There was a published time
> > > > period
> > > > in
> > > > which candidates should declare candidacy - how DARE she wait until
> > > > late
> > > > in that time period to announce!
> > > >
> > > > She should have read between the lines and known it was acceptable
> > > > only
> > > > to announce *before* the surprise appointments. Obviously, someone
> > > > not
> > > > in constant telepathic communication with the
> > > > Consul-without-colleague
> > > > is not fit for any of the offices other than those chosen for them
> > > > by
> > > > the Commissar.
> > > >
> > > > Vale, Octavius.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Livia Lentulo sal.

Very well expressed! I have my doubts that consul Albucius will take your
words into consideration.
What about a bet? If he lets Scholastica run for consul I will bring the
Saturnalia leaflets to your home. Otherwise you will have to come and get
them at my place.

Optime vale,
Livia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 2010 2:06 PM
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: De suffragiis numerandis


Lentulus Memmio cos. sal.


Sorry for the delayed answering of this letter.


>>>> My ambitions are more modest, unfortunately : at the time we miss
>>>> candidates for quaestorial and vigintisexviri positions, I have no
>>>> ambitions to allow our Republic, by my sole own morale authority – if
>>>> ever I had one – to have contested elections. <<<


That is a strange sentence. One of the strongest moral concerns in any
republic, or in any organization, is to have free, contested and
non-manipulated elections, with free and equal chance for everyone to run
for office. It's the citizens who decide in what office they want to serve,
you as consul have but only one tool to determine what office they seek:
encouragement and suggestion - but *not* forcing.


>>>> Second and last, dear Lentule, my relations with History are, like with
>>>> our Gods, very "low profile" ones. <<<<<


As our consul, you are an important part of Nova Roma history. You should
set up a good example. Do you prefer to set up an example for our future
consuls that they can refuse candidates?

Well, it is (?) now a precedent and a possibility to happen again. Unless
you reconsider (wisely) and allow a free election.


>>>> I do not think that History will care much of my acts, <<<<


That is a wrong approach from a consul: you need to try with all your
efforts to leave a positive example after your consulship, and it is in your
power to do so. With rejecting a candidate who is not favored by you, you
are setting up a very bad and dangerous precedent, unseen before. Lest
assured, History will care much of this act of you.


>>>> but, if It did, I think that she will be fair, and will record the
>>>> current chapter objectively, and assign it a place, probably relative,
>>>> besides the events that we lived this year, specially the failed coup
>>>> of July. <<<<


What you very colorfully and rhetorically call a "coup", was in fact an
attempt to appoint a dictator which position is a fully constitutional and
regular office in our Constitution. The calling of the senate was deemed
irregular, and much later, Marinus found that the Constitution conflicts
with Maine State law regarding this question, and thus refused the office.
In that voting, 15 out of the 20 voting senators voted for appointing
Marinus as dictator, one voted "no", 4 abstained. Some (4 senators) changed
their votes later. If there was ANYTHING wrong with that session, it was the
way how the senate was convoked irregularly. But the dictatorship in NR is a
constitutional office. Now, how can this be called a coup? At worst, it
could be called an illegal session.

Well, now however, we have a consul predetermining the results of a consular
election, not allowing choice among candidates. Using as colorful and
rhetoric exaggerations as you did, you may be preparing now the real coup.


>>>> Tullia has proved, last year when she declined my proposal to run for
>>>> consulate with me, that time had not real importance for her and that
>>>> she was ready to renounce the immediate, but probably minor,
>>>> opportunities that History may put in her hand. <<<<


Last year you were all the time assuring your friends, including me, that
you would run together with Quintilianus.

If you wanted to be Scholastica's colleague last year, why don't you allow
her to try with the consulship this year?

What is the objective of this whole stubborness now?

Literally everyone is begging you to allow the candidacy of Scholastica.
What do you accomplish with this insisting on her refusal?
A new civil conflict?

You have the power to change what is wrong. People said they found - I'm
quoting - "abhorring, revolting, disgusting" what you are doing.

You have the power to save us from another "civil war":

1) If you want a contested election, you accept her resignation, and you
allow A. Tullia Scholastica to run for the consulship;

2) If you don't want a free election, you don't allow it.


The decision is yours, but people will remember, and maybe they'll also
imitate the bad example.

C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis omnibus Plebeiis civibus a.p.d.,

Tomorrow a. d. IV Nonas Decembres (December 2) at sunrise on Rome the Plebeian votes will begin.

Plebeian Aediles (2 positions / 1 accepted candidate):
GAIA VALERIA PULCHRA

Tribunes (5 positions/ 4 accepted candidates) :
GAIUS TULLIUS VALERIANUS GERMANICUS
TIBERIUS GALERIUS PAULINUS
GAIUS AEMILIUS CRASSUS
VIBIA RUTILIA ENODIARIA

For the candidates statements and profiles, see here:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Elections_2764-Plebs_%28Nova_Roma%29

---------------------------

Here the way for voting:

-----------------------------------

PLEBEIAN 2763 for 2764 VOTING FORM (e-voting)

(lex Moravia de suffragiis in comitiis plebis tributis et ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum)
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_suffragiis_in_comitiis_plebis_tributis\_et_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_tributorum_%28Nova_Roma%29

You will find below the voting form, built up from the list of accepted candidates set by the presiding magistrate, tribune C. Petronius Dexter on a. III Kal. Dec. 2763 auc, in Comitia Plebis Tributa forum, message number 1507.

To cast your vote :
1/ carefully read the notes on and under the FORM below ("1", "2" and "3") ;
2/ if necessary, re-read the Lex Moravia quoted above ;
3/ copy the whole part below, called "THE FORM" (from "THE FORM" to "END of the FORM"), and paste it in the e-mail that you are going to send to cast your
vote ;
4/ BEFORE you send the email with the voting form that you have pasted, you must insert your "VOTING ID." : see below : either your voter code, or at worst and in case of emergency your Novaroman identity (Nomen, cognomen, praenomen, and when available agnomen/-ina) ;
5/ check if you may have forgotten anything (carefully check your voting options) ;
6/ send the whole e-mail (which must contain "my voting id." + "the form" with the elements that you will have inserted yourself, to the following address : <plebelec63 AT gmail DOT com>. If you receive a non-delivery e-mail back, simply re-cast your vote: this address works and has been tested several times before the vote. Just keep the non-delivery notification just in case your second message arrives after the voting deadline.


-----------------------MY VOTING ID.---------------------------
 IF you already have a voter code (6 alphanumerical characters),
insert it here : ______

to get your voter code, go to the web page :
http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album SHOULD THIS BE "ALBUM CIVIUM"?

There, you will need to log in in the log in area in the top of the right-hand margin of the page, and enter your nomen, or cognomen (partial name) in the search box on the left side of the page.You should then be able to find your own photograph and/or identity (click on your image).

You are now in your personal page. Click on "Vote: vote here..." (around the 8th line, and the first "vote" is on a black background).

At this time :

- either the page gives you your voter code, saying :
« Welcome XX XXXXX XXX [your roman id.]
Your Voting Code is ABC987
If there is an election in progress, you may go there immediately using the button below."
DO NOT CLICK ON THE BUTTON !!! Your vote would not be processed.
JUST copy your voter code, save it, make a written note of it, and now paste it in the space above, following "MY VOTING ID.".

- or a page called "Request voting code" opens, in which you have the possibility to get your voter code by inserting your date of birth in a special chart. Your voter code will then be sent to you at your personal address, the one that you gave us and that is listed in our database.

 IF you have NEVER HAD or STILL DO NOT HAVE a voter code, because you are a new citizen, or new assidua/-us, ask for it immediately from the Presiding Magistrate at jfarnoud94 at yahoo dot fr . You will be given a special and provisional secured code, just for these elections.

As soon as you have get your voter code, insert it above, as explained.

 IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, you may send your vote without voter code, but the confidentiality of your vote will be naturally limited. By choosing this way, you agree to renounce every appeal or recourse, for such grounds, against the presiding magistrate, every member of the Plebeian team, or more generally against every institution of Nova Roma Inc.

-------------END of the VOTING ID. PART-----------------------


---------------THE FORM-----------

Aediles (2 positions / 1 accepted candidate):

- VALERIA PULCHRA C. : UR 1
 legal write-in candidate : _______________ 2

OR
 ABSTAIN for the whole magistracy : UR 3

Tribunes (5 positions/ 4 accepted candidates) :

- TULLIUS VALERIANUS GERMANICUS C. UR 1
- GALERIUS PAULINUS Ti. UR 1
 AEMILIUS CRASSUS C. UR 1
 RUTILIA ENODIARIA V. UR 1

 legal write-in candidate : _______________2

OR
 ABSTAIN for the whole magistracy : UR 3

ATTENTION : once cast, your vote cannot be altered or withdrawn (lex Moravia, ibid. VI, C-6)

(1) The currently applicable Lex Moravia does not allow voters to express, for
every candidate, either a negative vote, or an abstention. To express her/his
disapproval or abstention for the considered proposal, the voter must delete the
option [UR]. If this option is not deleted, the diribitores will consider that
this candidate is approved.
(2) Insert here the name and cognomen and, if necessary - to avoid confusions
- the praenomen of a citizen that you propose for the position, even though
(s)he is not an accepted candidate. As Lex Moravia does not accept more than one
insertion, no account will be taken of any additional one.
(3) Lex Moravia allows the voter to abstain, but only for the whole
magistracy. The voter will thus leave in place the [UR] on this line ONLY if
(s)he does not want to approve the candidate(s), whose name is given above, nor
add a write-in candidate. If the [UR] mention is kept on this line and at the
same time the [UR] option is also left on the line of each accepted candidate
and/or the voter inserts a write-in vote, the whole vote, for the given
magistracy, will be considered as void.

---------------------------END of the FORM---------------------------


Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
Kalendis Decembribus P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reminder from:		Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
Title:		After every Kalends, Nones, Ides, the next day is "Ater"
Date:		Thursday December 2, 2010
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every month.
Notes:		Ater (unlucky) *Gods or Goddesses should not be invoked by name while indoors, and no celestial God or Goddess should be invoked by name while outdoors. *Sacrifices should not be made. *These days are ill-omened to begin any new project since any new project would necessarily begin by performing a rite calling for the assistance of the gods. Such religious rites, beginning something new, are not to be performed. *Avoid making journeys, or doing anything risky. NOTA BENE: Normal work would still be performed on dies atri, and as part of performing any work one performs rites for the patron deities, geni locii, and other appropriate deities. Likewise, the daily routine is also performed before the lararium
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C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis omnibus Plebeiis civibus a.p.d.,

Tomorrow a. d. IV Nonas Decembres (December 2) at sunrise on Rome the Plebeian votes will begin.

Plebeian Aediles (2 positions / 1 accepted candidate):
GAIA VALERIA PULCHRA

Tribunes (5 positions/ 4 accepted candidates) :
GAIUS TULLIUS VALERIANUS GERMANICUS
TIBERIUS GALERIUS PAULINUS
GAIUS AEMILIUS CRASSUS
VIBIA RUTILIA ENODIARIA

For the candidates statements and profiles, see here:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Elections_2764-Plebs_%28Nova_Roma%29

---------------------------

Here the way for voting:

-----------------------------------

PLEBEIAN 2763 for 2764 VOTING FORM (e-voting)

(lex Moravia de suffragiis in comitiis plebis tributis et ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum)
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_suffragiis_in_comitiis_plebis_tributis\_et_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_tributorum_%28Nova_Roma%29

You will find below the voting form, built up from the list of accepted candidates set by the presiding magistrate, tribune C. Petronius Dexter on a. III Kal. Dec. 2763 auc, in Comitia Plebis Tributa forum, message number 1507.

To cast your vote :
1/ carefully read the notes on and under the FORM below ("1", "2" and "3") ;
2/ if necessary, re-read the Lex Moravia quoted above ;
3/ copy the whole part below, called "THE FORM" (from "THE FORM" to "END of the FORM"), and paste it in the e-mail that you are going to send to cast your
vote ;
4/ BEFORE you send the email with the voting form that you have pasted, you must insert your "VOTING ID." : see below : either your voter code, or at worst and in case of emergency your Novaroman identity (Nomen, cognomen, praenomen, and when available agnomen/-ina) ;
5/ check if you may have forgotten anything (carefully check your voting options) ;
6/ send the whole e-mail (which must contain "my voting id." + "the form" with the elements that you will have inserted yourself, to the following address : <plebelec63 AT gmail DOT com>. If you receive a non-delivery e-mail back, simply re-cast your vote: this address works and has been tested several times before the vote. Just keep the non-delivery notification just in case your second message arrives after the voting deadline.


-----------------------MY VOTING ID.---------------------------
 IF you already have a voter code (6 alphanumerical characters),
insert it here : ______

to get your voter code, go to the Album Civium web page :
http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album
There, you will need to log in in the log in area in the top of the right-hand margin of the page, and enter your nomen, or cognomen (partial name) in the search box on the left side of the page.You should then be able to find your own photograph and/or identity (click on your image).

You are now in your personal page. Click on "Vote: vote here..." (around the 8th line, and the first "vote" is on a black background).

At this time :

- either the page gives you your voter code, saying :
« Welcome XX XXXXX XXX [your roman id.]
Your Voting Code is ABC987
If there is an election in progress, you may go there immediately using the button below."
DO NOT CLICK ON THE BUTTON !!! Your vote would not be processed.
JUST copy your voter code, save it, make a written note of it, and now paste it in the space above, following "MY VOTING ID.".

- or a page called "Request voting code" opens, in which you have the possibility to get your voter code by inserting your date of birth in a special chart. Your voter code will then be sent to you at your personal address, the one that you gave us and that is listed in our database.

 IF you have NEVER HAD or STILL DO NOT HAVE a voter code, because you are a new citizen, or new assidua/-us, ask for it immediately from the Presiding Magistrate at jfarnoud94 at yahoo dot fr . You will be given a special and provisional secured code, just for these elections.

As soon as you have get your voter code, insert it above, as explained.

 IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, you may send your vote without voter code, but the confidentiality of your vote will be naturally limited. By choosing this way, you agree to renounce every appeal or recourse, for such grounds, against the presiding magistrate, every member of the Plebeian team, or more generally against every institution of Nova Roma Inc.

-------------END of the VOTING ID. PART-----------------------


---------------THE FORM-----------

Aediles (2 positions / 1 accepted candidate):

- VALERIA PULCHRA C. : UR 1
 legal write-in candidate : _______________ 2

OR
 ABSTAIN for the whole magistracy : UR 3

Tribunes (5 positions/ 4 accepted candidates) :

- TULLIUS VALERIANUS GERMANICUS C. UR 1
- GALERIUS PAULINUS Ti. UR 1
 AEMILIUS CRASSUS C. UR 1
 RUTILIA ENODIARIA V. UR 1

 legal write-in candidate : _______________2

OR
 ABSTAIN for the whole magistracy : UR 3

ATTENTION : once cast, your vote cannot be altered or withdrawn (lex Moravia, ibid. VI, C-6)

(1) The currently applicable Lex Moravia does not allow voters to express, for
every candidate, either a negative vote, or an abstention. To express her/his
disapproval or abstention for the considered proposal, the voter must delete the
option [UR]. If this option is not deleted, the diribitores will consider that
this candidate is approved.
(2) Insert here the name and cognomen and, if necessary - to avoid confusions
- the praenomen of a citizen that you propose for the position, even though
(s)he is not an accepted candidate. As Lex Moravia does not accept more than one
insertion, no account will be taken of any additional one.
(3) Lex Moravia allows the voter to abstain, but only for the whole
magistracy. The voter will thus leave in place the [UR] on this line ONLY if
(s)he does not want to approve the candidate(s), whose name is given above, nor
add a write-in candidate. If the [UR] mention is kept on this line and at the
same time the [UR] option is also left on the line of each accepted candidate
and/or the voter inserts a write-in vote, the whole vote, for the given
magistracy, will be considered as void.

---------------------------END of the FORM---------------------------


Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
Kalendis Decembribus P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Q. Valerio Poplicolae quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
>
> Q. Valerius sal.
>
> Is he not a citizen anymore then? If not, then good riddance. Perhaps we can
> now peacefully sue the consul to allow Scholastica to run if she did in fact
> tell him that she refused the appointment.
>
> ATS: Answered privately. I have provided proof that I did in fact refuse
> the appointment, and that, too, before my announcement of candidacy, and that
> that refusal was ignored. I have more of the same, but hope that that will
> suffice.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Farewell to histrionics!
>
> ATS: I wouldn¹t call standing up for what is right histrionics. Any one
> of us might face a similar situation, especially if this precedent is allowed
> to stand. This is not a matter of imperium (which does not matter to me) or
> of the consulatus, but of justice.
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "L.
> Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Salvete omnes!
>> >
>>>> > >>
>>>> > >> Octavius is gonna fight for freedom and democracy!
>>>> > >>
>> >
>> > Well, apparently there's an end to that, because Octavius has been ejected
>> > from the Forum at 21:01 GMT yesterday.
>> >
>> > Optime valete,
>> > Livia
>> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

For those of our citizens who celebrate it, I wish you all a very happy Hannukah.

"Hanukkah is a Jewish holiday celebrated for eight days and nights. It starts on the 25th of the Jewish month of Kislev, which coincides with late November-late December on the secular calendar.

In Hebrew, the word "hanukkah" means "dedication." The name reminds us that this holiday commemorates the re-dedication of the holy Temple in Jerusalem following the Jewish victory over the Syrian-Greeks in 165 BC.

Prior to the year 165 BC, the Jewish people who dwelled in Judea where living under the rule of the Greek kings of Damascus. During this time Seleucid King Antiochus Epiphanes, the Greco-Syrian king, took control of the Temple in Jerusalem and forced the Jewish people to abandon their worship of God, their holy customs and reading of the Torah, and he made them bow down to the Greek gods. According to the records, this King Antiochus IV defiled the temple by sacrificing a pig on the altar and spilling its blood on the holy scrolls of Scripture.

As a result of the severe persecution and pagan oppression, a group of four Jewish brothers, led by Judah Maccabee, decided to raise up an army of religious freedom fighters. These men of fierce faith and loyalty to God became known as the Maccabees. The small band of warriors fought for three years with "strength from heaven" until achieving a miraculous victory and deliverance from the Greco-Syrian control.

After regaining the Temple, it was cleansed by the Maccabees, cleared of all Greek idolatry, and readied for rededicated. The re-dedication of the Temple to the Lord took place in the year 165 BC, on the 25th day of the Hebrew month called Kislev.

So Hanukkah received its name, the Feast of Dedication, because it celebrates the Maccabees' victory over Greek oppression and the re-dedication of the temple. But Hanukkah is also known as the Festival of Lights, and this is because immediately following the miraculous deliverance, God provided another miracle of provision.
In the Temple, the eternal flame of God was to be lit at all time as a symbol of God's presence. But according to tradition, when the Temple was rededicated, there was only enough oil left in the temple to burn the flame for one day. The rest of the oil had been defiled by the Greeks during their invasion, and it would take a week for new oil to be processed and purified. But at the re-dedication, the Maccabees went ahead and lit the eternal flame with the remaining supply of oil, and God's Holy presence caused it to burn miraculously for eight days, until the new sacred oil was ready.

This is why the feast is also called the Festival of Lights, and why the Hanukkah Menorah is lit for eight consecutive nights of celebration. Jews also commemorate this miracle of oil provision by making oil-rich foods, such as latkas, an important part of Hanukkah celebrations." - http://judaism.about.com/od/holidays/a/hanukkah.htm

Valete bene!

Cato

C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis omnibus Plebeiis Quiritibus,

As today is Nefastus dies and Ater too, in order to avoid any remark or any action de impietate I delay the beginning of the convening of the Concilium Plebis Tributa on Pridie Nonas Decembres (December 4) which is a Comitialis dies.

I know that historically changed but written on our web site:
Dies nefasti [N]
ordinary citizens may do anything;
a.. proceedings of the comitia tributa, concilium plebis, and comitia centuriata are prohibited;
b.. exercise of their judicial functions by curule magistrates is prohibited.
I know that the diribitors will have less time to proceed on the votes tally but I trust in the team electoral to be efficient.

I will give you more details later in the day.

Optime valete.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. IV Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem IV Nones Decembris; hic dies nefastus aterque est.

"Neither of these plans was approved and Herennius was carried home
from the camp. In the Roman camp, after many fruitless attempts had
been made to break out and they found themselves at last in a state of
utter destitution, necessity compelled them to send envoys to the
Samnites to ask in the first instance for fair terms of peace, and
failing that to challenge them to battle. Pontius replied that all war
was at an end, and since even now that they were vanquished and
captured they were incapable of acknowledging their true position, he
should deprive them of their arms and send them under the yoke,
allowing them to retain one garment each. The other conditions would
be fair to both victors and vanquished. If they evacuated Samnium and
withdrew their colonists from his country, the Roman and the Samnite
would henceforth live under their own laws as sovereign states united
by a just and honourable treaty. On these conditions he was ready to
conclude a treaty with the consuls, if they rejected any of them he
forbade any further overtures to be made to him. When the result was
announced, such a universal cry of distress arose, such gloom and
melancholy prevailed, that they evidently could not have taken it more
heavily if it had been announced to them all that they must die on the
spot. Then followed a long silence. The consuls were unable to breathe
a word either in favour of a capitulation so humiliating or against
one so necessary. At last L. Lentulus, of all the staff-officers the
most distinguished, both by his personal qualities and the offices he
had held, spoke: "I have often," he said, "heard my father, consuls,
say that he was the only one in the Capitol who refused to ransom the
City from the Gauls with gold, for the force in the Capitol was not
invested and shut in with fosse and rampart, as the Gauls were too
indolent to undertake that sort of work; it was therefore quite
possible for them to make a sortie involving, perhaps, heavy loss, but
not certain destruction. If we had the same chance of fighting,
whether on favourable or unfavourable ground, which they had of
charging down upon the foe from the Capitol, in the same way as the
besieged have often made sorties against their besiegers, I should not
fall behind my father's spirit and courage in the advice which I
should give. To die for one's country is, I admit, a glorious thing,
and as concerns myself I am ready to devote myself for the people and
legions of Rome or to plunge into the midst of the enemy. But it is
here that I behold my country, it is on this spot that all the legions
which Rome possesses are gathered, and unless they wish to rush to
death for their own sakes, to save their honour, what else have they
that they can save by their death. 'The dwellings of the City,'
somebody may reply, ' and its walls, and that crowd of human beings
who form its population.' Nay, on the contrary, all these things are
not saved, they are handed over to the enemy if this army is
annihilated. For who will protect them? A defenceless multitude of
non-combatants, I suppose; as successfully as it defended them from
the approach of the Gauls. Or will they implore the help of an army
from Veii with Camillus at its head ? Here and here alone are all our
hopes, all our strength. If we save these we save our country, if we
give these up to death we desert and betray our country. 'Yes,' you
say, 'but surrender is base and ignominious.' It is; but true
affection for our country demands that we should preserve it, if need
be, by our disgrace as much as by our death. However great then the
indignity, we must submit to it and yield to the compulsion of
necessity, a compulsion which the gods themselves cannot evade! Go,
consuls, give up your arms as a ransom for that State which your
ancestors ransomed with gold!" - Livy, History of Rome 9.4


On this day in A.D. 1814, Donatien Alphonse Francois, comte de Sade
(although he always referred to himself as the "Marquis de Sade"),
died at the insane asylum at Charenton (now Saint-Maurice,
Val-de-Marne) near Paris.


Valete bene!

Cato

Salve dear Tribune,

I take good note of your wish observing a strict interpretation of our public calendar and to consider that the character of "dies nefastus" of this day prevails on the fact that the elections could have started, under other circumstances, in a dies ater.

Even if I may confirm Censorius Marinus' analysis, I do understand your choice in our current context and in the different state of the relations between Plebs and Nobilitas in Nova Roma. I will therefore adapt, from the informations that you will send me asap, please, the edictum on our electoral rules, so that you do not start the elections under the now "old rules".

I will contact you privately this evening Rome time to check with you if the new schedule you will propose asks no other difficulties that we would not have remarked at this point.

Tibi gratias et vale sincerely,


Albucius cos.



From: c.petronius-dexter@...
To: ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com; enodia2002@...; castra.rota@...; corvvs@...; albucius_aoe@...; christer.edling@...; iulius_sabinus@...
CC: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Plebeian vote is 2 days delayed.
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 06:40:04 +0100





C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis omnibus Plebeiis Quiritibus,

As today is Nefastus dies and Ater too, in order to avoid any remark or any action de impietate I delay the beginning of the convening of the Concilium Plebis Tributa on Pridie Nonas Decembres (December 4) which is a Comitialis dies.

I know that historically changed but written on our web site:

Dies nefasti [N]
ordinary citizens may do anything;

proceedings of the comitia tributa, concilium plebis, and comitia centuriata are prohibited;
exercise of their judicial functions by curule magistrates is prohibited.
I know that the diribitors will have less time to proceed on the votes tally but I trust in the team electoral to be efficient.

I will give you more details later in the day.

Optime valete.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. IV Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Q. Valerius omnibus sal.

I can attest that the language used by Tullia Scholastica indicates she did not accept the appointment after the consul made the announcement. Wasn't those very words, but it was close, saying she must refuse for she is not able to perform the duties of that appointment.

Valete.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica Q. Valerio Poplicolae quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> > S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > Q. Valerius sal.
> >
> > Is he not a citizen anymore then? If not, then good riddance. Perhaps we can
> > now peacefully sue the consul to allow Scholastica to run if she did in fact
> > tell him that she refused the appointment.
> >
> > ATS: Answered privately. I have provided proof that I did in fact refuse
> > the appointment, and that, too, before my announcement of candidacy, and that
> > that refusal was ignored. I have more of the same, but hope that that will
> > suffice.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Farewell to histrionics!
> >
> > ATS: I wouldn¹t call standing up for what is right histrionics. Any one
> > of us might face a similar situation, especially if this precedent is allowed
> > to stand. This is not a matter of imperium (which does not matter to me) or
> > of the consulatus, but of justice.
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "L.
> > Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Salvete omnes!
> >> >
> >>>> > >>
> >>>> > >> Octavius is gonna fight for freedom and democracy!
> >>>> > >>
> >> >
> >> > Well, apparently there's an end to that, because Octavius has been ejected
> >> > from the Forum at 21:01 GMT yesterday.
> >> >
> >> > Optime valete,
> >> > Livia
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

I'd like to say a couple of things here.

First - bearing in mind that I have called upon the consul to re-consider and allow Scholastica's candidacy - the power to appoint the vigintisexviri was given under the authority of the Senate, and in a senatus consultum ultimum. When Scholastica says "This is not a matter of imperium (which does not matter to me)..." we see the very heart of the matter. The senatus consultum ultimum gives the consul the absolute authority - the imperium - to do exactly what it says. The actual wording of the Constitution is this:

"The Senate shall have the power to issue the Senatus consultum ultimum (the ultimate decree of the Senate). When in effect, this decree will supersede all other governmental bodies and authorities (with the exception of the dictator) and allow the Senate to invest the consuls with absolute powers to deal with a specific situation..." (Const. N.R. 5.E)

So the Senate gave the consul the absolute authority to deal with the lack of vigintisexviri.

He did so.

Now, how many of us have been called for jury duty? How many of us have tried to get *out* of jury duty by claiming some handicap of one kind or another? How often does that actually work?

The answer is that every citizen in the United States understands that jury duty is a civil responsibility. The judge in a US courtroom has been given, by the government, absolute authority within that sphere - to run his courtroom as he sees fit and to decide who may avoid jury duty and who may not; it is certainly not a trampling of my rights under the US Constitution that I be called and made to serve. To avoid jury duty I would be required to show absolutely *compelling* evidence that doing so would cause me or my family irreparable harm in some way.

As Scholastica has declined to show us what her actual words were, and only paraphrases them as under an inability to perform the functions of the job (counting ballots) - *not* that she intended to run for office and should therefore be allowed to be released - if this were a US court she would be told to sit down and stay in her seat as a prospective juror. This is what the consul has done. Scholastica doesn't like it. I don't blame her, but that does not excuse her from her appointed duties to the Respublica.


Second, to portray those who are running for office as some sort of monolithic, Borg-like hive mind is utterly ridiculous. Just because Venator and I both fought hard against the attempt to drag the Respublica into a theocracy based on hatred and division does not mean that we think alike by any means whatsoever. It means that he and I agreed that these particular actions were abhorrent to the health and safety of the Respublica, and acted in that light. I'd be willing to bet that both President Obama and ex-President Bush both think that cancer is a horrific disease, and would both like to wipe it out. That does not mean they think alike on any number of other things.

So yes, Octavius' speeches were histrionic, catering to a lowest common denominator of fear and unrest, and as such should be viewed not as the calm, rational disagreement to a particular situation but as the wildly inaccurate and ill-stated rants that they were.


I don't know if the consul will allow Scholastica to run. I think in his mind that to do so simply because we want him to is not a justification that will hold much water. He has stood with his hands pressed firmly against an avalanche of disregard for our law and his personal dignity over the past several months, and to allow someone to refuse to serve the State because they just don't want to is an insult to that law, the law *we*, the citizens, made and gave him the imperium to uphold.

What I *do* know is that he has the duty to uphold the law as best as he possibly can. We elected him to do so, and gave him the authority to do so. Normally, he might have a colleague to consult, even if they disagree. His has vanished. So I refuse to belittle him, no matter what choice he makes.

Valete,

Cato

C. Iulius Caesar L. Cornelio Sullae Felici S.P.D.

My real concern lies with actually creating a list and proceeding to eliminate the legislation without first checking how the disappearance of a particular law can affect other legislation. It is, sadly, not as easy as checking to see whether the law you want to eradicate is cross referenced by name in another lex. Oh that it were that simple.

The problems really start when a set of circumstances conspire to create an unforeseen situation, which wouldn't have occurred had you not eliminated the targeted lex in the first place. So how do we prevent that? By carefully examining the legislation, line by line, section by section, looking to other leges to determine if the removal of that content would affect them, by consultation, by trying to predict crisis points, and generally proceeding with caution.

As I said before the praetors are unlikely to be the driving force for the elimination of say the legal code in Nova Roma. Practically the consuls drive that particular bus, determining their legislative agenda and priorities.

You can rest assured though that if elected I will expect the consuls to fully involve myself and my colleague in a through consultation process, not to be swayed by demands and expectations to eliminate this or that lex immediately, to procure the advice of the senate so as to allow for the experience of former consuls, praetors and all our senatorial colleagues to be utilized.

On those items that require constitutional changes it will be necessary and prudent to ensure that the proposed change can command the requisite support in the senate BEFORE the matter is taken to comitia. That will ensure precious legislative time is not wasted on bringing such items without warning to the comitia, passing them, only to find they fail inside the senate. On such significant constitutional items the consuls might do well to commit to the senate to seek a senatus consultum prior to seeking a comitia vote.

Additionally promoting this approach to the senate will mark a change in the way in which it has been used, and promote and develop, hopefully, not only a degree of independence of thought but also an expectation that such a practice would become common place in future years.

Negotiation to ensure passage of significant items has been sadly lacking in the last few years, for it wasn't seen as necessary when one faction or another commanded sufficient voting muscle to push items through. Times have changed, and should change and I would hope our colleagues would place any proposals for legislative amendments, especially the wholesale eradication of legislation, under intense scrutiny, and that the consuls afford them the chance to do so. If they don't, then nothing will have been learnt from the crises of recent years and they, and future consuls, may find their legislative proposals die a painful death on the floor of the house.

Anyone in management, be it in government or business, will tell you that simply tearing up policies, or in our cases leges, without doing the due diligence necessary to ensure that the situation doesn't become far worse, as well as ensuring that replacement legislation is ready and has been equally scrutinized, is a recipe for disaster. I am not advocating no change or prevarication, but measured caution, and not charging in like a bull at a gate, repealing this or that lex, only to find we need it later, especially if we could have predicted such a need by taking a measure of time more.

I also hope that if there is actually merit in legislative change that its timetable is not dictated by the desire to "achieve" something in one's consular year at the expense of it running over into the next year and thereby ensuring full due diligence is done. If the senate so wishes it can pass a senatus consultum to require the next year's consuls to continue the work, so change need not be mandatory within a twelve month period and must not be driven around consular ambition. This is a general comment, and not directed at the current candidates for consul.

Change for change sake, or just because it is popular, or change without due diligence is a very bad thing. We should proceed in a measured and cautious way.

Optime vale

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave!
>
> In regards to your post, can you think of some examples that would give you
> cause for concern?
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla

Cn. Iulius Caesar L. Cornelio Sullae Felici S.P.D

And here is a classic example of not checking throughly, I keep renaming myself, because I cut, not legislation, but text which had an error in it :)

C. Iulius Caesar? I think not!

Case proved amice, we should proceed with caution!

Optime vale

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Iulius Caesar" <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> C. Iulius Caesar L. Cornelio Sullae Felici S.P.D.
>
> My real concern lies with actually creating a list and proceeding to eliminate the

C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis omnibus Plebeiis s.p.d.,

I strongly suggest to each of you, as plebeian, to suscribe on the CPT list, your forum during elections, in which you may speak about those elections and discuss between voters and candidates.

CPT group address:
ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com

The votes will begin tomorrow Saturday Dec. 4 00:01 (Rome time) untill Tuesday Dec. 7 23:59 (Rome time).
You will have 4 full days to vote.

This evening I will re-explain the process to vote.

One thing is very important, my fellow citizens: Vote!

We have to make those Plebeian elections a success.

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem III Nones Decembris; hic dies nefastus est.

"The consuls left to confer with Pontius. When the victor began to
insist upon a treaty, they told him that a treaty could not possibly
be made without the orders of the people nor without the fetials and
the usual ceremonial. So that the convention of Claudium did not, as
is commonly believed and as even Claudius asserts, take the form of a
regular treaty. It was concluded through a sponsio, i.e. by the
officers giving their word of honour to observe the conditions. For
what need would there have been in the case of a treaty for any pledge
from the officers or for any hostages, since in concluding a treaty
the imprecation is always used: "By whosesoever default it may come
about that the said conditions are not observed, may Jupiter so smite
that people as this swine is now struck by the fetials." The consuls,
the staff-officers, the quaestors, and the military tribunes all gave
their word on oath, and all their names are extant today, whereas if a
regular treaty had been concluded no names but those of the two
fetials would have survived. Owing to the inevitable delay in
arranging a treaty, 600 equites were demanded as hostages to answer
with their lives if the terms of the capitulation were not observed.
Then a definite time was fixed for surrendering the hostages and
sending the army, deprived of its arms, under the yoke. The return of
the consuls with the terms of surrender renewed the grief and distress
in the camp. So bitter was the feeling that the men had difficulty in
keeping their hands off those "through whose rashness," they said,
"they had been brought into that place and through whose cowardice
they would have to leave it in a more shameful plight than they had
come. They had had no guides who knew the neighbourhood, no scouts had
been thrown out, they had fallen blindly like wild animals into a
trap." There they were, looking at each other, gazing sadly at the
armour and weapons which were soon to be given up, their right hands
which were to be defenceless, their bodies which were to be at the
mercy of their enemies. They pictured to themselves the hostile yoke,
the taunts and insulting looks of the victors, their marching disarmed
between the armed ranks, and then afterwards the miserable progress of
an army in disgrace through the cities of their allies, their return
to their country and their parents, whither their ancestors had so
often returned in triumphal procession. They alone, they said, had
been defeated without receiving a single wound, or using a single
weapon, or fighting a single battle, they had not been allowed to draw
the sword or come to grips with the enemy; courage and strength had
been given them in vain. While they were uttering these indignant
protests, the hour of their humiliation arrived which was to make
everything more bitter for them by actual experience than they had
anticipated or imagined. First of all they were ordered to lay down
their arms and go outside the rampart with only one garment each. The
first to be dealt with were those surrendered as hostages who were
taken away for safe keeping. Next, the lictors were ordered to retire
from the consuls, who were then stripped of their paludamenta. This
aroused such deep commiseration amongst those who a short time ago had
been cursing them and saying that they ought to be surrendered and
scourged, that every man, forgetting his own plight, turned away his
eyes from such an outrage upon the majesty of state as from a
spectacle too horrible to behold." - Livy, History of Rome 9.5



"Publius Clodius was a man of noble birth and notable for his wealth
and reputation, but not even the most notorious scoundrels came close
to him in insolence and audacity. Clodius was in love with Caesar's
wife Pompeia, and she was not unwilling. But a close watch was kept on
the women's apartment, and Caesar's mother Aurelia followed the young
wife around and made it difficult and dangerous for the lovers to
meet. The Romans have a goddess whom they call Good, whom the Greeks
call the Women's Goddess. The Phrygians say that this goddess
originated with them, and that she was the mother of their king Midas.
The Romans say that she was a Dryad nymph who married Faunus, and the
Greeks say that she was the Unnameable One among the mothers of
Dionysus. For this reason the women who celebrate her rites cover
their tents with vine-branches, and a sacred serpent sits beside the
goddess on her throne, as in the myth. It is unlawful for a man to
approach or to be in the house when the rites are celebrated. The
women, alone by themselves, are said to perform rites that conform to
Orphic ritual during the sacred ceremony. As a result, when the time
for the festival comes, and a man is consul or praetor or general, he
goes away and takes every male with him, and his wife takes over the
house and decorates it for the festival. Most of the rites are
celebrated at night, and with great amounts of festivity in the revels
and music as well.

At the time [that the incident occurred] Pompeia was celebrating this
ritual; Clodius did not yet have a beard and for this reason thought
that he would escape detection if he were dressed up as lyre-player,
and went into the house looking like a young woman. He found the doors
open and was led in without difficulty by a slave-woman who was in on
the plot; this woman went to Pompeia and told her, and some time
passed, but Clodius could not bear to wait, and as he was wandering
around the large house and trying to avoid the lights, one of
Aurelia's attendants got hold of him, and asked him to play with her,
as one woman might with another, and when he refused, she dragged him
before the others and asked who he was and where he came from.
Clodius said that he was waiting for Pompeia's slave Abra (which
happened to be the woman's name), and gave himself away by his voice.
The attendant dashed away from him towards the lights and the crowd,
shouting that she had caught a man. The women were terrified, and
Aurelia called a halt to the rites of the goddess and hid the sacred
objects; she ordered the doors to be shut and went around the house
with torches, looking for Clodius. He was found in the room that
belonged to the girl where he had gone in an attempt to escape. When
he was discovered, he was taken through the doors by the women and
thrown out of the house. That night the women went right off and told
their husbands about the affair, and during the day the story spread
through the city that Clodius had been involved in sacrilege and had
committed injustice against not only those he had insulted, but the
city and the gods. Clodius was indicted for sacrilege by one of the
tribunes, and the most influential senators joined forces against him
and testified about other dreadful outrages he had committed and his
incest with his sister, who was married to Lucullus. But the common
people strenuously opposed these senators' efforts, and defended
Clodius, and the mob helped him considerably by terrifying and
frightening the jury. Caesar immediately divorced Pompeia, but when
he was summoned as a witness in the trial said that he knew nothing
about the accusations against Clodius. The prosecutor asked him about
the apparent contradiction: 'why then did you divorce your wife?' He
answered, 'because I thought my wife should be above suspicion'. Some
say that that was what Caesar really thought; others that he was eager
to save Clodius in order to gratify the common people. Clodius was
acquitted because most of the jurors handed in their opinions in
illegible writing, so that they would not endanger themselves with the
common people by voting against him, or disgrace themselves with the
nobility by letting him off." - Plutarch, Lives, "Iulius Caesar"
9.1,4; 10.1-6

Today is held in honor of Bona Dea. Bona Dea is the patron of the
good of the earth and of chastity and fertility in women. She is the
daughter of the god Faunus and she herself is often called Fauna. She
had a temple on the Aventine Hill, but her secret rites were not held
there but in the house of a prominent Roman magistrate or the Pontifex
Maximus. Only women were admitted and even representations of men and
beasts were removed. At these secret meetings it was forbidden to
speak the words 'wine' and 'myrtle' because Faunus had once made her
drunk and beaten her with a myrtle stick. Bona Dea was invoked for
healing and for freedom from slavery; many of her worshippers were
freed slaves and plebians, and many were women seeking aid in sickness
or for fertility. She was also considered a protector from
earthquakes. Bona Dea, or the "Good Goddess", was represented under
the form of a matron with her right hand opened, as if tendering
assistance to the helpless, and holding a loaf in her left hand. She
was also venerated under the name of Ops, and other denominations, but
with the highest attributes; and when so designated, she was
worshipped by men and boys, as well as women and virgins; and priests
ministered to her in dances with brazen cymbals. These motions
signified that the Earth only imparted blessings upon being constantly
moved; and as brass was discovered before iron, the cymbals were
composed of that metal to indicate her antiquity. The worshippers
seated themselves on the ground, and the posture of devotion was
bending forward, and touching the ground with the right hand. Her
sacrificial victim was a sow (porca) called damium. The goddess
herself was also known as Damia and her priestess as damiatrix. These
names are almost certainly Greek, and it is highly probable that the
Greek cult of Damia was grafted onto the original cult of the Roman
goddess Bona Dea. On the head of the goddess was placed a crown of
towers, denoting strength.

In the year 62 B.C, following the consulship of Cicero and the
destruction of the Catilinian conspiracy, the office of Pontifex
Maximus (more a political than religious office) was held by C. Iulius
Caesar. Since all males, even male animals, were excluded from the
event, Caesar absented himself for the evening and the ceremony was
planned and hosted by his wife Pompeia.

Since Pompeia was not the most stable of women, her mother-in-law
Aurelia, Caesar's respected and noble mother, was actually in charge
of the details. She noticed one woman who was heavily cloaked, tall,
and with an affected tone in her voice. Aurelia prided herself on
knowing every guest present but she could not recall this individual.
She asked a servant girl to keep an eye on the unknown guest, who lost
control of her affected voice and was discovered to be in fact a man.
He escaped from the house without being definitively identified.

Rumors flew. No one in Rome doubted that the guilty man was Publius
Clodius Pulcher: it was not unlike him to play wild pranks -- even
with so sacred an event as the Bona Dea ceremony. One story suggested
that Clodius and Pompeia were having an affair and that she herself
had smuggled him into her house. This was a difficult accusation to
squelch. An impiety certainly had occurred and conservative Romans
were very upset. In response, Caesar divorced Pompeia, reputedly
justifying himself --- in a quote of unknown origins --- by asserting
that "Caesar's wife must be above suspicion." There was no proof at
all, only gossip and suspicion, of Pompeia's involvement. But for
Caesar it may have been a useful way to get rid of a wife whom he had
married for political reasons that no longer mattered.

Clodius was actually brought to trial for the sacrilege in 61 B.C.
(693 A.U.C.). He offered an alibi defense, claiming that he had been
out of town on the night in question. Cicero spoke against him and
with his skillful oratory he demolished Clodius's alibi. Nevertheless,
the jury - thought to have been well bribed - voted to acquit
Clodius. Because of his prosecution, Cicero acquired a dangerous and
powerful enemy: three years later (in 58 B.C.) Clodius was chiefly
responsible for Cicero's exile from Rome.


Valete bene!

Cato

Au. Liburnius C. Dextero Novis Quiritibusque S.P.D.

tribune plebis, this plebeian will now take a short vacation on Mons Sacer: since the results of the elections are predetermined, our vote has become useless and superfluous.

Cato and Venator WILL be consuls, since they run unopposed, as are all the other candidates.

My sense of duty to liberty, for me and for my fellows citizens, prevents me from validating this farce with my active participation.

I shall, instead, patiently wait for the day of glory to arrive.

Dii deaeque nos faveant!

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis omnibus Plebeiis s.p.d.,
>
> I strongly suggest to each of you, as plebeian, to suscribe on the CPT list, your forum during elections, in which you may speak about those elections and discuss between voters and candidates.
>
> CPT group address:
> ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com
>
> The votes will begin tomorrow Saturday Dec. 4 00:01 (Rome time) untill Tuesday Dec. 7 23:59 (Rome time).
> You will have 4 full days to vote.
>
> This evening I will re-explain the process to vote.
>
> One thing is very important, my fellow citizens: Vote!
>
> We have to make those Plebeian elections a success.
>
> Optime valete.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

C. Tullius Valerianus Au. Liburnio S.P.D.

Salve, Liburni! I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the consular
election of which you speak is NOT the plebeian election of which Tribune
Dexter is speaking. This is the vote of the plebeians for tribunes and
plebeian aediles, not consuls. Albucius had nothing to do with accepting or
rejecting candidates for the plebeian elections, and nothing has been
"predetermined," although there are only 4 people running for tribune and 1
for aedile (of 5 tribunal and 2 aedilician seats), so it does look like a
fairly uncontested election here too.

Nevertheless, your differences with the current Senior Consul have nothing
whatsoever to do with the plebeian comitia. Don't confuse the issue!

Vale!

On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Bruno <reenbru@...> wrote:

>
>
> Au. Liburnius C. Dextero Novis Quiritibusque S.P.D.
>
> tribune plebis, this plebeian will now take a short vacation on Mons Sacer:
> since the results of the elections are predetermined, our vote has become
> useless and superfluous.
>
> Cato and Venator WILL be consuls, since they run unopposed, as are all the
> other candidates.
>
> My sense of duty to liberty, for me and for my fellows citizens, prevents
> me from validating this farce with my active participation.
>
> I shall, instead, patiently wait for the day of glory to arrive.
>
> Dii deaeque nos faveant!
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
> >
> > C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis omnibus Plebeiis s.p.d.,
> >
> > I strongly suggest to each of you, as plebeian, to suscribe on the CPT
> list, your forum during elections, in which you may speak about those
> elections and discuss between voters and candidates.
> >
> > CPT group address:
> > ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com<ComitiaPlebisTributa%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> > The votes will begin tomorrow Saturday Dec. 4 00:01 (Rome time) untill
> Tuesday Dec. 7 23:59 (Rome time).
> > You will have 4 full days to vote.
> >
> > This evening I will re-explain the process to vote.
> >
> > One thing is very important, my fellow citizens: Vote!
> >
> > We have to make those Plebeian elections a success.
> >
> > Optime valete.
> >
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> > tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
> > a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

You know if you felt so strongly you could have ran yourself? Instead of this useless gesture that accomplishes nothing other than given up your most precious voice. Something that men and women have died for (I speak generally about the right to vote), but hey be foolish just know there are those who will judge your action.

Vale

Sulla

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 3, 2010, at 10:45 AM, "Bruno" <reenbru@...> wrote:

> Au. Liburnius C. Dextero Novis Quiritibusque S.P.D.
>
> tribune plebis, this plebeian will now take a short vacation on Mons Sacer: since the results of the elections are predetermined, our vote has become useless and superfluous.
>
> Cato and Venator WILL be consuls, since they run unopposed, as are all the other candidates.
>
> My sense of duty to liberty, for me and for my fellows citizens, prevents me from validating this farce with my active participation.
>
> I shall, instead, patiently wait for the day of glory to arrive.
>
> Dii deaeque nos faveant!
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
> >
> > C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis omnibus Plebeiis s.p.d.,
> >
> > I strongly suggest to each of you, as plebeian, to suscribe on the CPT list, your forum during elections, in which you may speak about those elections and discuss between voters and candidates.
> >
> > CPT group address:
> > ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com
> >
> > The votes will begin tomorrow Saturday Dec. 4 00:01 (Rome time) untill Tuesday Dec. 7 23:59 (Rome time).
> > You will have 4 full days to vote.
> >
> > This evening I will re-explain the process to vote.
> >
> > One thing is very important, my fellow citizens: Vote!
> >
> > We have to make those Plebeian elections a success.
> >
> > Optime valete.
> >
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> > tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
> > a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> >
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius A. Liburnio salutem dicit,

> Cato and Venator WILL be consuls, since they run unopposed, as are all the other candidates.

Cato and Venator are not candidates for tribunes of Plebs neither for Plebeian aediles.

> My sense of duty to liberty, for me and for my fellows citizens, prevents me from validating this farce with my active participation.

As plebeian, you are invited to vote on the Comitia Plebis Tributa elections from tomorrow Dec. 4 at 00:01 (Rome Time) untill Dec. 7 at 23:59 (Rome time).

> I shall, instead, patiently wait for the day of glory to arrive.

On December 10 new tribunes and Plebeian aediles will be elected, and I will have done my last duties as tribune of this year, you too, Liburni, make your citizen duty and vote.

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

Au. Liburnius G. Valeriano S.D.

Thank you for your kind reminder, but I am aware of the fact that different comitia elect different magistrates. I used the plural "elections" intentionally.

I noticed that only one tribunes has posted a short statement at the "official" page of the Comitia Plebis reserved to this purpose.

I do not even know where you stand on the issue of defending the Plebeians vs their current marginalization and future attempts to silence them.

And Albucius has everything to do with anything currently happening in Nova Roma: he has absolute power.

Cura ut valeas.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...> wrote:
>
> C. Tullius Valerianus Au. Liburnio S.P.D.
>
> Salve, Liburni! I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the consular
> election of which you speak is NOT the plebeian election of which Tribune
> Dexter is speaking. This is the vote of the plebeians for tribunes and
> plebeian aediles, not consuls. Albucius had nothing to do with accepting or
> rejecting candidates for the plebeian elections, and nothing has been
> "predetermined," although there are only 4 people running for tribune and 1
> for aedile (of 5 tribunal and 2 aedilician seats), so it does look like a
> fairly uncontested election here too.
>
> Nevertheless, your differences with the current Senior Consul have nothing
> whatsoever to do with the plebeian comitia. Don't confuse the issue!
>
> Vale!
>
> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Bruno <reenbru@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Au. Liburnius C. Dextero Novis Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> >
> > tribune plebis, this plebeian will now take a short vacation on Mons Sacer:
> > since the results of the elections are predetermined, our vote has become
> > useless and superfluous.
> >
> > Cato and Venator WILL be consuls, since they run unopposed, as are all the
> > other candidates.
> >
> > My sense of duty to liberty, for me and for my fellows citizens, prevents
> > me from validating this farce with my active participation.
> >
> > I shall, instead, patiently wait for the day of glory to arrive.
> >
> > Dii deaeque nos faveant!
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>,
> > "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> > >
> > > C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis omnibus Plebeiis s.p.d.,
> > >
> > > I strongly suggest to each of you, as plebeian, to suscribe on the CPT
> > list, your forum during elections, in which you may speak about those
> > elections and discuss between voters and candidates.
> > >
> > > CPT group address:
> > > ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com<ComitiaPlebisTributa%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >
> > > The votes will begin tomorrow Saturday Dec. 4 00:01 (Rome time) untill
> > Tuesday Dec. 7 23:59 (Rome time).
> > > You will have 4 full days to vote.
> > >
> > > This evening I will re-explain the process to vote.
> > >
> > > One thing is very important, my fellow citizens: Vote!
> > >
> > > We have to make those Plebeian elections a success.
> > >
> > > Optime valete.
> > >
> > > C. Petronius Dexter
> > > tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
> > > a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Ave!

I do not even know where you stand on the issue of defending the Plebeians
vs their current marginalization and future attempts to silence them.

Uh, what the hell does this mean? You do realize that Consul Memmius is a
Pleb just like you, or has that slipped your mind?

You're attempt at generating class warfare fails because uh your lack of
knowledge regarding the facts is apparent. This is not a Pleb vs whatever
thing. This is a law issue. Do you not understand that? If Consul
Albicius had appointed me as a Dribitor instead of Scholastica, I would have
been just as unable to run for Custos. Because the law applies equally
without preference for the individual.

Vale,

Sulla

On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Bruno <reenbru@...> wrote:

>
>
> Au. Liburnius G. Valeriano S.D.
>
> Thank you for your kind reminder, but I am aware of the fact that different
> comitia elect different magistrates. I used the plural "elections"
> intentionally.
>
> I noticed that only one tribunes has posted a short statement at the
> "official" page of the Comitia Plebis reserved to this purpose.
>
> I do not even know where you stand on the issue of defending the Plebeians
> vs their current marginalization and future attempts to silence them.
>
> And Albucius has everything to do with anything currently happening in Nova
> Roma: he has absolute power.
>
> Cura ut valeas.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, Gaius
> Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...> wrote:
> >
> > C. Tullius Valerianus Au. Liburnio S.P.D.
> >
> > Salve, Liburni! I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the consular
> > election of which you speak is NOT the plebeian election of which Tribune
> > Dexter is speaking. This is the vote of the plebeians for tribunes and
> > plebeian aediles, not consuls. Albucius had nothing to do with accepting
> or
> > rejecting candidates for the plebeian elections, and nothing has been
> > "predetermined," although there are only 4 people running for tribune and
> 1
> > for aedile (of 5 tribunal and 2 aedilician seats), so it does look like a
> > fairly uncontested election here too.
> >
> > Nevertheless, your differences with the current Senior Consul have
> nothing
> > whatsoever to do with the plebeian comitia. Don't confuse the issue!
> >
> > Vale!
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Bruno <reenbru@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Au. Liburnius C. Dextero Novis Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> > >
> > > tribune plebis, this plebeian will now take a short vacation on Mons
> Sacer:
> > > since the results of the elections are predetermined, our vote has
> become
> > > useless and superfluous.
> > >
> > > Cato and Venator WILL be consuls, since they run unopposed, as are all
> the
> > > other candidates.
> > >
> > > My sense of duty to liberty, for me and for my fellows citizens,
> prevents
> > > me from validating this farce with my active participation.
> > >
> > > I shall, instead, patiently wait for the day of glory to arrive.
> > >
> > > Dii deaeque nos faveant!
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com><Nova-Roma%
> 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis omnibus Plebeiis s.p.d.,
> > > >
> > > > I strongly suggest to each of you, as plebeian, to suscribe on the
> CPT
> > > list, your forum during elections, in which you may speak about those
> > > elections and discuss between voters and candidates.
> > > >
> > > > CPT group address:
> > > > ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com<ComitiaPlebisTributa%40yahoogroups.com>
> <ComitiaPlebisTributa%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > >
> > > > The votes will begin tomorrow Saturday Dec. 4 00:01 (Rome time)
> untill
> > > Tuesday Dec. 7 23:59 (Rome time).
> > > > You will have 4 full days to vote.
> > > >
> > > > This evening I will re-explain the process to vote.
> > > >
> > > > One thing is very important, my fellow citizens: Vote!
> > > >
> > > > We have to make those Plebeian elections a success.
> > > >
> > > > Optime valete.
> > > >
> > > > C. Petronius Dexter
> > > > tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
> > > > a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Au. Liburnius C. Petronio salutem dicit.

I thank you for your kind invitation, but I do not have a favorite candidate in any of the races. I have therefore decided not to exercise my "right" to vote in these election.

As a tribunus plebis you have failed me and the other plebeians by contributing to create a situation, in which there is no freedom to vote for any candidate dissenting from the official party line.

Vale

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius A. Liburnio salutem dicit,
>
> > Cato and Venator WILL be consuls, since they run unopposed, as are all the other candidates.
>
> Cato and Venator are not candidates for tribunes of Plebs neither for Plebeian aediles.
>
> > My sense of duty to liberty, for me and for my fellows citizens, prevents me from validating this farce with my active participation.
>
> As plebeian, you are invited to vote on the Comitia Plebis Tributa elections from tomorrow Dec. 4 at 00:01 (Rome Time) untill Dec. 7 at 23:59 (Rome time).
>
> > I shall, instead, patiently wait for the day of glory to arrive.
>
> On December 10 new tribunes and Plebeian aediles will be elected, and I will have done my last duties as tribune of this year, you too, Liburni, make your citizen duty and vote.
>
> Optime valete.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>

C. Petronius A. Liburnius salutem dicit,

> I thank you for your kind invitation, but I do not have a favorite candidate in any of the races. I have therefore decided not to exercise my "right" to vote in these election.

You have this right.

> As a tribunus plebis you have failed me and the other plebeians by contributing to create a situation, in which there is no freedom to vote for any candidate dissenting from the official party line.

Every Plebeian citizen having the requirements allowed by the laws can run, I did not contribute to create any situation, except to process to the Plebeian elections.

I did not have failed you nor the other plebeians, you were free to run for tribune, you did not. Your intention to continue the mess is not interesting, you were not candidate, you do not want to vote, that is your problem.

Vale quam optime.

C. Petronius Dexter
tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.

C. Petronius Dexter civibus Plebeiis s.p.d.,

As consul P. Memmius statued in the message *Elections 2763 auc rules* on Nov. 25
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ComitiaPlebisTributa/message/82135

Are assigned to the Plebeian elections 2763 :
.custos : E. Curia Finnica
.diribitors : Gaius Marcius Crispus and G. Cocceius Spinula

In case of unavailability of one of these three citizens, (s)he will be replaced by Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus, whose title (custos or diribitor) will be adapted accordingly.

I sent all them a message on Nov. 28 in order to create the Plebeian electoral team.
Today, I establish that diribitores C. Marcius Crispus and C. Cocceius Spinula are in function, but the custos E. Curia Finnica did not join the team, so I ask the Consul to make Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus the official custos of those elections.

Optime valete.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. III Non. Dec. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Presiding Tribune,





As requested, please find below the edict which allow Q. Caecilius to replace Curia dir., now suspended, as custos and in order to guarantee the


continuity of our elections.




Thanks for your reactivity and efficiency.







Vale sincerely Tribune,






P. Memmius Albucius

cos.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Edictum consulare Memmium on the suspension of dir. Curia, and her replacement


In view of:


my edict modified �concerning the organization of Novaroman elections 2763 auc� of a.d. VII Kal. Dec. 2763 auc, and specially its articles 14 and 15 ;

the statement issued today by Tribune Petronius, presiding magistrate of the Plebeian elections for 2764 auc, stating the failure of diribitrix E. Curia Finnica ;




I, P. Memmius Albucius, consul maior for year 2763 a.u.c., issue the present edict:


Article 1:


Diribitor E. Curia Finnica is, for having failed her duty not having join her assigned electoral team with no information to the presiding magistrate, suspended from this pridie Nonas Dec. 2763 auc.


Article 2:


Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus is appointed custos for the Plebeian elections for 2764 auc until next a.d. V Idus Dec. 2763 auc and will remain diribitor from a.d. IV Idus Dec. 2763 to next Kal. Ian. 2764 auc.


Article 3:


The other provisions of my edict above mentioned remain unchanged.


Article 4:

Every Nova Roman public officer shall, as far as their duties require, enforce the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae Romae and in Nova Roma relevant internet 'discussion' lists.




Datum a.d. III Nonas Dec. 2763 a.u.c. (Dec. 3rd 2010 cc.) P. Memmio Albucio K. Fabio Buteone Quintiliano II coss.




P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS cos.




From: c.petronius-dexter@...
To: ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com; corvvs@...; castra.rota@...; enodia2002@...; cocceius.spinula@...; jbshr1pwa@...; albucius_aoe@...; christer.edling@...; iulius_sabinus@...; novaroma-announce@yahoogroups.com
CC: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com; nr_senaculum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Custos for the Plebeian elections.
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 22:44:12 +0100





C. Petronius Dexter civibus Plebeiis s.p.d.,

As consul P. Memmius statued in the message *Elections 2763 auc rules* on Nov. 25
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ComitiaPlebisTributa/message/82135

Are assigned to the Plebeian elections 2763 :
�custos : E. Curia Finnica
�diribitors : Gaius Marcius Crispus and G. Cocceius Spinula

In case of unavailability of one of these three citizens, (s)he will be replaced by Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus, whose title (custos or diribitor) will be adapted accordingly.

I sent all them a message on Nov. 28 in order to create the Plebeian electoral team.
Today, I establish that diribitores C. Marcius Crispus and C. Cocceius Spinula are in function, but the custos E. Curia Finnica did not join the team, so I ask the Consul to make Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus the official custos of those elections.

Optime valete.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. III Non. Dec. P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Au. Liburnius Sullae s.d.

Yes, I could have run and, probably, I would have won, also unopposed. I did not consider it for several reasons: the most compelling being my own personal commitments of time in the real world. Right now I am on vacation, but things will change early next year.

I did try to perform a conciliatory gesture by offering myself, to non avail, as an impartial diribitor. As a member of the inner circle you may probably be aware of this, as you may probably be already aware that the fix is already in.

I do not consider any "right" as particularly important as they may or may not be exercised at one's whim, or even bartered away for a bowl of lentils.

The "duty" to freedom, everybosy's freedom, instead, can not be ignored or bartered away. It is what pushes a wolf to gnaw off its own paw, in order to be free of a trap.

It is innate in every creature and when repressed too long, il will explode furiously. That is what people have died, die and will continue to die for.

As for the judgement of others, i will remind you that it is foolish to forget that I also do judge others, their words and their actions...

Vale

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave,
>
> You know if you felt so strongly you could have ran yourself? Instead of this useless gesture that accomplishes nothing other than given up your most precious voice. Something that men and women have died for (I speak generally about the right to vote), but hey be foolish just know there are those who will judge your action.
>
> Vale
>
> Sulla
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Dec 3, 2010, at 10:45 AM, "Bruno" <reenbru@...> wrote:
>
> > Au. Liburnius C. Dextero Novis Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> >
> > tribune plebis, this plebeian will now take a short vacation on Mons Sacer: since the results of the elections are predetermined, our vote has become useless and superfluous.
> >
> > Cato and Venator WILL be consuls, since they run unopposed, as are all the other candidates.
> >
> > My sense of duty to liberty, for me and for my fellows citizens, prevents me from validating this farce with my active participation.
> >
> > I shall, instead, patiently wait for the day of glory to arrive.
> >
> > Dii deaeque nos faveant!
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> > >
> > > C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis omnibus Plebeiis s.p.d.,
> > >
> > > I strongly suggest to each of you, as plebeian, to suscribe on the CPT list, your forum during elections, in which you may speak about those elections and discuss between voters and candidates.
> > >
> > > CPT group address:
> > > ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > The votes will begin tomorrow Saturday Dec. 4 00:01 (Rome time) untill Tuesday Dec. 7 23:59 (Rome time).
> > > You will have 4 full days to vote.
> > >
> > > This evening I will re-explain the process to vote.
> > >
> > > One thing is very important, my fellow citizens: Vote!
> > >
> > > We have to make those Plebeian elections a success.
> > >
> > > Optime valete.
> > >
> > > C. Petronius Dexter
> > > tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
> > > a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Quirites,

The edictum below modifies our general edict on the elections, in order to fit the new schedule decided by the presiding tribune.


Valete omnes,


Albucius cos.



----------------------------------




Edictum consulare Memmium concerning the organization of Novaroman elections 2763 auc - modificiation


(de conventu Novaromani suffragii 2763 auc ferendi � mutatio)




In view of:


my edict modified �concerning the organization of Novaroman elections 2763 auc� of a.d. VII Kal. Dec. 2763 auc, and specially its articles 14 and 15 ;

the wish expressed by the presiding Tribune that the Plebeian elections not begin on a dies nefastus, which oblige Nova Roma institutions to move a few provisions of the initial edict.




I, P. Memmius Albucius, consul maior for year 2763 a.u.c., issue the present edict:




Article 1:


The article 5 of the present edict is replaced by the following one :


�Article 5:


The contio and voting periods of every concerned annual elections 2763 are reduced to :


for the plebeian elections :







three (3) days for the contio ;

four (4) days for the vote.

for the other elections,


four (4) days for the contio ;

five (5) days for the vote. �




Article 2:


The article 7 of the present edict is replaced by the following one :


�Article 7:


The counting and tally of the votes, as well as their assignment to the relevant tribes or centuries, or the verification of such assignment, shall last three (3) days, from:


8-9 Dec. 2010 cc. for the plebeian elections ;


16 to 18 Dec. 2010 cc. for the other elections. �


Article 3:


The other provisions of my edict above mentioned remain unchanged.


Article 4:

Every Nova Roman public officer shall, as far as their duties require, enforce the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae Romae and in Nova Roma relevant internet 'discussion' lists.




Datum a.d. III Nonas Dec. 2763 a.u.c. (Dec. 3rd 2010 cc.) P. Memmio Albucio K. Fabio Buteone Quintiliano II coss.






P. MEMMIUS ALBUCIUS cos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,
are you talking for Valerianus?

If valerianus is unclear the wording of my message, I am sure HE can ask me for clarifications.


Vale

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave!
>
> I do not even know where you stand on the issue of defending the Plebeians
> vs their current marginalization and future attempts to silence them.
>
> Uh, what the hell does this mean? You do realize that Consul Memmius is a
> Pleb just like you, or has that slipped your mind?
>
> You're attempt at generating class warfare fails because uh your lack of
> knowledge regarding the facts is apparent. This is not a Pleb vs whatever
> thing. This is a law issue. Do you not understand that? If Consul
> Albicius had appointed me as a Dribitor instead of Scholastica, I would have
> been just as unable to run for Custos. Because the law applies equally
> without preference for the individual.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Bruno <reenbru@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Au. Liburnius G. Valeriano S.D.
> >
> > Thank you for your kind reminder, but I am aware of the fact that different
> > comitia elect different magistrates. I used the plural "elections"
> > intentionally.
> >
> > I noticed that only one tribunes has posted a short statement at the
> > "official" page of the Comitia Plebis reserved to this purpose.
> >
> > I do not even know where you stand on the issue of defending the Plebeians
> > vs their current marginalization and future attempts to silence them.
> >
> > And Albucius has everything to do with anything currently happening in Nova
> > Roma: he has absolute power.
> >
> > Cura ut valeas.
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, Gaius
> > Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@> wrote:
> > >
> > > C. Tullius Valerianus Au. Liburnio S.P.D.
> > >
> > > Salve, Liburni! I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the consular
> > > election of which you speak is NOT the plebeian election of which Tribune
> > > Dexter is speaking. This is the vote of the plebeians for tribunes and
> > > plebeian aediles, not consuls. Albucius had nothing to do with accepting
> > or
> > > rejecting candidates for the plebeian elections, and nothing has been
> > > "predetermined," although there are only 4 people running for tribune and
> > 1
> > > for aedile (of 5 tribunal and 2 aedilician seats), so it does look like a
> > > fairly uncontested election here too.
> > >
> > > Nevertheless, your differences with the current Senior Consul have
> > nothing
> > > whatsoever to do with the plebeian comitia. Don't confuse the issue!
> > >
> > > Vale!
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Bruno <reenbru@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Au. Liburnius C. Dextero Novis Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> > > >
> > > > tribune plebis, this plebeian will now take a short vacation on Mons
> > Sacer:
> > > > since the results of the elections are predetermined, our vote has
> > become
> > > > useless and superfluous.
> > > >
> > > > Cato and Venator WILL be consuls, since they run unopposed, as are all
> > the
> > > > other candidates.
> > > >
> > > > My sense of duty to liberty, for me and for my fellows citizens,
> > prevents
> > > > me from validating this farce with my active participation.
> > > >
> > > > I shall, instead, patiently wait for the day of glory to arrive.
> > > >
> > > > Dii deaeque nos faveant!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com><Nova-Roma%
> > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis omnibus Plebeiis s.p.d.,
> > > > >
> > > > > I strongly suggest to each of you, as plebeian, to suscribe on the
> > CPT
> > > > list, your forum during elections, in which you may speak about those
> > > > elections and discuss between voters and candidates.
> > > > >
> > > > > CPT group address:
> > > > > ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com<ComitiaPlebisTributa%40yahoogroups.com>
> > <ComitiaPlebisTributa%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > >
> > > > > The votes will begin tomorrow Saturday Dec. 4 00:01 (Rome time)
> > untill
> > > > Tuesday Dec. 7 23:59 (Rome time).
> > > > > You will have 4 full days to vote.
> > > > >
> > > > > This evening I will re-explain the process to vote.
> > > > >
> > > > > One thing is very important, my fellow citizens: Vote!
> > > > >
> > > > > We have to make those Plebeian elections a success.
> > > > >
> > > > > Optime valete.
> > > > >
> > > > > C. Petronius Dexter
> > > > > tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
> > > > > a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Ex officio Tribunorum Plebis.

C. Petronius Dexter omnibus civibus Plebeiis salutem plurimam dicit;

The election begins today on December 4 at 00:01 CET (Rome time)
and last until December 7 at 23:59 CET (Rome Time).

The following citizens have announced their candidacy
for the following offices:

Plebeian aediles (2 positions):
- Gaia Valeria Pulchra.
-

Tribunes of the Plebs (5 positions):
- Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus.
- Tiberius Galerius Paulinus.
- Gaius Aemilius Crassus.
- Vibia Rutilia Enodiaria.
-

Here the table :
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Elections_2764-Plebs_%28Nova_Roma%29


----------------------PLEBEIAN 2763 for 2764 VOTING FORM (e-voting)-------------------
(lex Moravia de suffragiis in comitiis plebis tributis et ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum) http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_suffragiis_in_comitiis_plebis_tributis\_et_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_tributorum_%28Nova_Roma%29

You will find below the voting form, built up from the list of accepted candidates set by the presiding magistrate, tribune C. Petronius Dexter on a. III Kal. Dec. 2763 auc, in Comitia Plebis Tributa forum, message number 1507.

To cast your vote :
1/ carefully read the notes on and under the FORM below ("1", "2" and "3") ;
2/ if necessary, re-read the Lex Moravia quoted above ;
3/ copy the whole part below, called "THE FORM" (from "THE FORM" to "END of the FORM"), and paste it in the e-mail that you are going to send to cast your vote through your e-address that you gave NR when you registered ;
4/ BEFORE you send the email with the voting form that you have pasted, you must insert your "VOTING ID." : see below : either your voter code, or at worst and in case of emergency your Novaroman identity (Nomen, cognomen, praenomen, and when available agnomen/-ina) ;
5/ check if you may have forgotten anything (carefully check your voting options) ;
6/ send the whole e-mail (which must contain "my voting id." + "the form" with the elements that you will have inserted yourself, to the following address : <plebelec63 AT gmail DOT com>.
If you receive a non-delivery e-mail back, simply re-cast your vote: this address works and has been tested several times before the vote. Just keep the non-delivery notification just in case your second message arrives after the voting deadline.

-----------------------MY VOTING ID.---------------------------

IF you already have a voter code (6 alphanumerical characters), insert it here : ______

To get your voter code, go to the Album Civium web page :

http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album

There, you will need to log in in the log in area in the top of the right-hand margin of the page, and enter your nomen, or cognomen (partial name) in the search box on the left side of the page.You should then be able to find your own photograph and/or identity (click on your image).

You are now in your personal page. Click on "Vote: vote here..." (around the 8th line, and the first "vote" is on a black background).

At this time :
- either the page gives you your voter code, saying :
" Welcome XX XXXXX XXX [your roman id.]
Your Voting Code is ABC987 If there is an election in progress, you may go there immediately using the button below."

DO NOT CLICK ON THE BUTTON !!!
Your vote would not be processed.

JUST copy your voter code, save it, make a written note of it, and now paste it in the space above, following "MY VOTING ID.".

- or a page called "Request voting code" opens, in which you have the possibility to get your voter code by inserting your date of birth in a special chart. Your voter code will then be sent to you at your personal address, the one that you gave us and that is listed in our database.

IF you have NEVER HAD or STILL DO NOT HAVE a voter code, because you are a new citizen, or new assidua/-us, ask for it immediately from the Presiding Magistrate at

<jfarnoud94 at yahoo dot fr> .

You will be given a special and provisional secured code, just for these elections.
As soon as you have get your voter code, insert it above, as explained.

IN CASE OF EMERGENCY, you may send your vote without voter code, but the confidentiality of your vote will be naturally limited. By choosing this way, you agree to renounce every appeal or recourse, for such grounds, against the presiding magistrate, every member of the Plebeian team, or more generally against every institution of Nova Roma Inc.

-------------END of the VOTING ID. PART-----------------------


---------------THE FORM-----------

Aediles (2 positions / 1 accepted candidate):

- VALERIA PULCHRA C. : UR 1

legal write-in candidate : _______________ 2

OR

ABSTAIN for the whole magistracy : UR 3


Tribunes (5 positions/ 4 accepted candidates) :

- TULLIUS VALERIANUS GERMANICUS C. UR 1

- GALERIUS PAULINUS Ti. UR 1

- AEMILIUS CRASSUS C. UR 1

- RUTILIA ENODIARIA V. UR 1

legal write-in candidate : _______________2

OR

ABSTAIN for the whole magistracy : UR 3


ATTENTION : once cast, your vote cannot be altered or withdrawn (lex Moravia, ibid. VI, C-6)

(1) The currently applicable Lex Moravia does not allow voters to express, for every candidate, either a negative vote, or an abstention. To express her/his disapproval or abstention for the considered proposal, the voter must delete the option [UR]. If this option is not deleted, the diribitores will consider that this candidate is approved.
(2) Insert here the name and cognomen and, if necessary - to avoid confusions - the praenomen of a citizen that you propose for the position, even though (s)he is not an accepted candidate. As Lex Moravia does not accept more than one insertion, no account will be taken of any additional one.
(3) Lex Moravia allows the voter to abstain, but only for the whole magistracy. The voter will thus leave in place the [UR] on this line ONLY if
(s)he does not want to approve the candidate(s), whose name is given above, nor add a write-in candidate. If the [UR] mention is kept on this line and at the same time the [UR] option is also left on the line of each accepted candidate and/or the voter inserts a write-in vote, the whole vote, for the given magistracy, will be considered as void.

---------------------------END of the FORM---------------------------


Optime valete.

Datum sub manu mea pridie nonas Decembres P. Memmio Albucio K. Fabio Buteone Quintiliano iterum consulibus, anno Vrbis conditae MMDCCLXIII.

C. Petronius Dexter
tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

Then why did you post on the ML. If you intended your message just for
Valerianus you could have sent it to him privately. You posted your
response in the Main Forum therefor anyone can take issue with your weak and
ineffective arguments.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 3:35 PM, Bruno <reenbru@...> wrote:

>
>
> Ave,
> are you talking for Valerianus?
>
> If valerianus is unclear the wording of my message, I am sure HE can ask me
> for clarifications.
>
> Vale
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, Robert
> Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ave!
> >
> > I do not even know where you stand on the issue of defending the
> Plebeians
> > vs their current marginalization and future attempts to silence them.
> >
> > Uh, what the hell does this mean? You do realize that Consul Memmius is a
> > Pleb just like you, or has that slipped your mind?
> >
> > You're attempt at generating class warfare fails because uh your lack of
> > knowledge regarding the facts is apparent. This is not a Pleb vs whatever
> > thing. This is a law issue. Do you not understand that? If Consul
> > Albicius had appointed me as a Dribitor instead of Scholastica, I would
> have
> > been just as unable to run for Custos. Because the law applies equally
> > without preference for the individual.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 1:02 PM, Bruno <reenbru@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Au. Liburnius G. Valeriano S.D.
> > >
> > > Thank you for your kind reminder, but I am aware of the fact that
> different
> > > comitia elect different magistrates. I used the plural "elections"
> > > intentionally.
> > >
> > > I noticed that only one tribunes has posted a short statement at the
> > > "official" page of the Comitia Plebis reserved to this purpose.
> > >
> > > I do not even know where you stand on the issue of defending the
> Plebeians
> > > vs their current marginalization and future attempts to silence them.
> > >
> > > And Albucius has everything to do with anything currently happening in
> Nova
> > > Roma: he has absolute power.
> > >
> > > Cura ut valeas.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com><Nova-Roma%
> 40yahoogroups.com>, Gaius
>
> > > Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > C. Tullius Valerianus Au. Liburnio S.P.D.
> > > >
> > > > Salve, Liburni! I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but the
> consular
> > > > election of which you speak is NOT the plebeian election of which
> Tribune
> > > > Dexter is speaking. This is the vote of the plebeians for tribunes
> and
> > > > plebeian aediles, not consuls. Albucius had nothing to do with
> accepting
> > > or
> > > > rejecting candidates for the plebeian elections, and nothing has been
> > > > "predetermined," although there are only 4 people running for tribune
> and
> > > 1
> > > > for aedile (of 5 tribunal and 2 aedilician seats), so it does look
> like a
> > > > fairly uncontested election here too.
> > > >
> > > > Nevertheless, your differences with the current Senior Consul have
> > > nothing
> > > > whatsoever to do with the plebeian comitia. Don't confuse the issue!
> > > >
> > > > Vale!
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 12:45 PM, Bruno <reenbru@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Au. Liburnius C. Dextero Novis Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> > > > >
> > > > > tribune plebis, this plebeian will now take a short vacation on
> Mons
> > > Sacer:
> > > > > since the results of the elections are predetermined, our vote has
> > > become
> > > > > useless and superfluous.
> > > > >
> > > > > Cato and Venator WILL be consuls, since they run unopposed, as are
> all
> > > the
> > > > > other candidates.
> > > > >
> > > > > My sense of duty to liberty, for me and for my fellows citizens,
> > > prevents
> > > > > me from validating this farce with my active participation.
> > > > >
> > > > > I shall, instead, patiently wait for the day of glory to arrive.
> > > > >
> > > > > Dii deaeque nos faveant!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com><Nova-Roma%
> 40yahoogroups.com><Nova-Roma%
>
> > > 40yahoogroups.com>,
> > > > > "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis omnibus Plebeiis s.p.d.,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I strongly suggest to each of you, as plebeian, to suscribe on
> the
> > > CPT
> > > > > list, your forum during elections, in which you may speak about
> those
> > > > > elections and discuss between voters and candidates.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > CPT group address:
> > > > > > ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com<ComitiaPlebisTributa%40yahoogroups.com>
> <ComitiaPlebisTributa%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > <ComitiaPlebisTributa%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The votes will begin tomorrow Saturday Dec. 4 00:01 (Rome time)
> > > untill
> > > > > Tuesday Dec. 7 23:59 (Rome time).
> > > > > > You will have 4 full days to vote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > This evening I will re-explain the process to vote.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One thing is very important, my fellow citizens: Vote!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We have to make those Plebeian elections a success.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Optime valete.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > C. Petronius Dexter
> > > > > > tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
> > > > > > a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

I don't know what the big hang up that is being voiced this year, and as far
as I know, ONLY this year regarding uncontested elections. This is not a
new appearance in Nova Roma. NR has had PLENTY of uncontested elections in
the past. The result in those elections will be the same as it is in this
election. Those elected will have Imperium and will have the same duties,
honors and responsibilities as all previous magistrates going back to the
beginning of Nova Roma.

Now, I don't know what world you live in, but in your Utopian vision your
view of freedom would be correct. The problem is we live on this world.
The world of reality. Our reality is that we are compelled to do a variety
of manners regardless if we like them or not. Let me give you some
examples, in the United States, I am compelled to pay taxes. If I do not, I
run the risk of being incarcerated. In the state of Arizona, I am unable to
smoke in restaurants, supermarkets or even at my job. If I had Freedom, I
should be able to do that. In the United States, when I turned 18 years old
I had to register for the Selective Service and if the US still had a
compulsory draft I would have had to comply regardless if I wanted to or
not. In the US, almost yearly I get a summons for Jury Duty, and I always
tend to get them at the worst possible moments, yet while I may get
extensions, ultimately I must comply with those requests or face the
consequences. And, just to give you an idea of another country, my best
friends in Israel, both men and women are forced to do compulsory military
service, they are FORCED. Women serve two years of their lives in the
military and men serve 3 years.

The freedom you speak of is great in concept, but it does not stand up to
muster under the real world. We all have obligations and requirements that
we must fulfill if we like them or not.

Vale,

Sulla

On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 3:26 PM, Bruno <reenbru@...> wrote:

>
>
> Au. Liburnius Sullae s.d.
>
> Yes, I could have run and, probably, I would have won, also unopposed. I
> did not consider it for several reasons: the most compelling being my own
> personal commitments of time in the real world. Right now I am on vacation,
> but things will change early next year.
>
> I did try to perform a conciliatory gesture by offering myself, to non
> avail, as an impartial diribitor. As a member of the inner circle you may
> probably be aware of this, as you may probably be already aware that the fix
> is already in.
>
> I do not consider any "right" as particularly important as they may or may
> not be exercised at one's whim, or even bartered away for a bowl of lentils.
>
>
> The "duty" to freedom, everybosy's freedom, instead, can not be ignored or
> bartered away. It is what pushes a wolf to gnaw off its own paw, in order to
> be free of a trap.
>
> It is innate in every creature and when repressed too long, il will explode
> furiously. That is what people have died, die and will continue to die for.
>
> As for the judgement of others, i will remind you that it is foolish to
> forget that I also do judge others, their words and their actions...
>
> Vale
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>, Robert
> <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ave,
> >
> > You know if you felt so strongly you could have ran yourself? Instead of
> this useless gesture that accomplishes nothing other than given up your most
> precious voice. Something that men and women have died for (I speak
> generally about the right to vote), but hey be foolish just know there are
> those who will judge your action.
> >
> > Vale
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> > On Dec 3, 2010, at 10:45 AM, "Bruno" <reenbru@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Au. Liburnius C. Dextero Novis Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> > >
> > > tribune plebis, this plebeian will now take a short vacation on Mons
> Sacer: since the results of the elections are predetermined, our vote has
> become useless and superfluous.
> > >
> > > Cato and Venator WILL be consuls, since they run unopposed, as are all
> the other candidates.
> > >
> > > My sense of duty to liberty, for me and for my fellows citizens,
> prevents me from validating this farce with my active participation.
> > >
> > > I shall, instead, patiently wait for the day of glory to arrive.
> > >
> > > Dii deaeque nos faveant!
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>,
> "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > C. Petronius Dexter tribunus Plebis omnibus Plebeiis s.p.d.,
> > > >
> > > > I strongly suggest to each of you, as plebeian, to suscribe on the
> CPT list, your forum during elections, in which you may speak about those
> elections and discuss between voters and candidates.
> > > >
> > > > CPT group address:
> > > > ComitiaPlebisTributa@yahoogroups.com<ComitiaPlebisTributa%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > >
> > > > The votes will begin tomorrow Saturday Dec. 4 00:01 (Rome time)
> untill Tuesday Dec. 7 23:59 (Rome time).
> > > > You will have 4 full days to vote.
> > > >
> > > > This evening I will re-explain the process to vote.
> > > >
> > > > One thing is very important, my fellow citizens: Vote!
> > > >
> > > > We have to make those Plebeian elections a success.
> > > >
> > > > Optime valete.
> > > >
> > > > C. Petronius Dexter
> > > > tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
> > > > a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Q. Valerius sal.

What on godly earth are you blathering about? If you didn't like the uncontested elections, then you should have manned up and run for a position yourself. No one was prevented from running with 1 exception, Scholastica, but if you look at it carefully, she too could have run if she followed procedures properly.

In the end, you're just another conspiracy theorist who knows nothing and therefore says nothing.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Bruno" <reenbru@...> wrote:
>
> Au. Liburnius C. Petronio salutem dicit.
>
> I thank you for your kind invitation, but I do not have a favorite candidate in any of the races. I have therefore decided not to exercise my "right" to vote in these election.
>
> As a tribunus plebis you have failed me and the other plebeians by contributing to create a situation, in which there is no freedom to vote for any candidate dissenting from the official party line.
>
> Vale
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
> >
> > C. Petronius A. Liburnio salutem dicit,
> >
> > > Cato and Venator WILL be consuls, since they run unopposed, as are all the other candidates.
> >
> > Cato and Venator are not candidates for tribunes of Plebs neither for Plebeian aediles.
> >
> > > My sense of duty to liberty, for me and for my fellows citizens, prevents me from validating this farce with my active participation.
> >
> > As plebeian, you are invited to vote on the Comitia Plebis Tributa elections from tomorrow Dec. 4 at 00:01 (Rome Time) untill Dec. 7 at 23:59 (Rome time).
> >
> > > I shall, instead, patiently wait for the day of glory to arrive.
> >
> > On December 10 new tribunes and Plebeian aediles will be elected, and I will have done my last duties as tribune of this year, you too, Liburni, make your citizen duty and vote.
> >
> > Optime valete.
> >
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> > tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
> > a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
> >
>

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Q. Valerio Poplicolae A. Liburnio quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Q. Valerius sal.
>
> What on godly earth are you blathering about? If you didn't like the
> uncontested elections, then you should have manned up and run for a position
> yourself. No one was prevented from running with 1 exception, Scholastica, but
> if you look at it carefully, she too could have run if she followed procedures
> properly.
>
> ATS: I did follow procedures correctly. Secondly, we don¹t know if
> anyone else was affected. I find it difficult to believe that no one else was
> interested in holding office. We have had one disappear before taking the
> oath, and a good many resignations and disappearances during the term of
> office; we have had other uncontested elections...but so far as I know, no
> other candidate has been prevented from standing for office because of an
> unwanted and unexpected appointment to a post for which he or she is unsuited,
> but not allowed to refuse.
>
>
>
> In the end, you're just another conspiracy theorist who knows nothing and
> therefore says nothing.
>
> ATS: That does not follow. However, I, too, would advise Liburnius to
> vote in the plebeian elections, which have a slate of candidates similar to
> those in other years: insufficient to fill all positions. So far as I know,
> no one was blocked from contention in the plebeian elections, and I am the
> only known victim in the others, though I may not be alone. We just don¹t
> know.
>
> I¹d like to know how these elections are being conducted, given that the
> normal means seem to be unavailable. I¹m not interested in the details (after
> all, I have rejected the post of diribitrix), but the general means by which
> we may be able to vote would be interesting...not that I trust much around
> here these days.
>
> Valete.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Bruno" <reenbru@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Au. Liburnius C. Petronio salutem dicit.
>> >
>> > I thank you for your kind invitation, but I do not have a favorite
>> candidate in any of the races. I have therefore decided not to exercise my
>> "right" to vote in these election.
>> >
>> > As a tribunus plebis you have failed me and the other plebeians by
>> contributing to create a situation, in which there is no freedom to vote for
>> any candidate dissenting from the official party line.
>> >
>> > Vale
>> >
>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>> "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > C. Petronius A. Liburnio salutem dicit,
>>> > >
>>>> > > > Cato and Venator WILL be consuls, since they run unopposed, as are
>>>> all the other candidates.
>>> > >
>>> > > Cato and Venator are not candidates for tribunes of Plebs neither for
>>> Plebeian aediles.
>>> > >
>>>> > > > My sense of duty to liberty, for me and for my fellows citizens,
>>>> prevents me from validating this farce with my active participation.
>>> > >
>>> > > As plebeian, you are invited to vote on the Comitia Plebis Tributa
>>> elections from tomorrow Dec. 4 at 00:01 (Rome Time) untill Dec. 7 at 23:59
>>> (Rome time).
>>> > >
>>>> > > > I shall, instead, patiently wait for the day of glory to arrive.
>>> > >
>>> > > On December 10 new tribunes and Plebeian aediles will be elected, and I
>>> will have done my last duties as tribune of this year, you too, Liburni,
>>> make your citizen duty and vote.
>>> > >
>>> > > Optime valete.
>>> > >
>>> > > C. Petronius Dexter
>>> > > tribunus Plebis Arcoiali scribebat
>>> > > a. d. III Nonas Decembres P. Memmio K. Fabio II coss.
>>> > >
>> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est pridie Nonas Decembris; haec dies comitialis est.

"The consuls were the first to be sent, little more than half-clothed,
under the yoke, then each in the order of his rank was exposed to the
same disgrace, and finally, the legionaries one after another. Around
them stood the enemy fully armed, reviling and jeering at them; swords
were pointed at most of them, and when they offended their victors by
showing their indignation and resentment too plainly some were wounded
and even killed. Thus were they marched under the yoke. But what was
still harder to bear was that after they had emerged from the pass
under the eyes of the foe though, like men dragged up from the jaws of
hell, they seemed to behold the light for the first time, the very
light itself, serving only to reveal such a hideous sight as they
marched along, was more gloomy than any shape of death. They could
have reached Capua before nightfall, but not knowing how their allies
would receive them, and kept back by a feeling of shame, they all
flung themselves, destitute of everything, on the sides of the road
near Capua. As soon as news of this reached the place, a proper
feeling of compassion for their allies got the better of the inborn
disdain of the Campanian; they immediately sent to the consuls their
own insignia of office, the fasces and the lictors, and the soldiers
they generously supplied with arms, horses, clothes, and provisions.
As they entered Capua the senate and people came out in a body to meet
them, showed them all due hospitality, and paid them all the
consideration to which as individuals and as members of an allied
state they were entitled. But all the courtesies and kindly looks and
cheerful greetings of their allies were powerless to evoke a single
word or even to make them lift up their eyes and look in the face the
friends who were trying to comfort them. To such an extent did
feelings of shame make their gloom and despondency all the heavier,
and constrain them to shun the converse and society of men. The next
day some young nobles were commissioned to escort them to the
frontier. On their return they were summoned to the Senate-house, and
in answer to inquiries on the part of the older senators they reported
that they seemed to be much more gloomy and depressed than the day
before; the column moved along so silently that they might have been
dumb; the Roman mettle was cowed; they had lost their spirit with
their arms; they saluted no man, nor did they return any man's
salutation; not a single man had the power to open his mouth for fear
of what was coming; their necks were bowed as if they were still
beneath the yoke. The Samnites had won not only a glorious victory but
a lasting one; they had not only captured Rome as the Gauls had done
before them, but, what was a still more warlike exploit, they had
captured the Roman courage and hardihood." - Livy, History of Rome 9.6



"Zeus had intercourse with Metis, who turned into many shapes in order
to avoid his embraces. When she was with child, Zeus, taking time by
the forelock, swallowed her, because Earth said that, after giving
birth to the maiden who was then in her womb, Metis would bear a son
who should be the lord of heaven. From fear of that Zeus swallowed
her. And when the time came for the birth to take place, Prometheus
or, as others say, Hephaestus, smote the head of Zeus with an axe, and
Athena, fully armed, leaped up from the top of his head at the river
Triton." - Apollodorus, Library and Epitome 1.3.6

"Truly, a cloud of forgetfulness sometimes descends unexpectedly, and
draws the straight path of action away from the mind. For they climbed
the hill without bringing the seed of burning flame; and they
established the sacred precinct on the acropolis with fireless
sacrifices. Zeus brought to them a yellow cloud and rained on them
abundant gold. And the gray-eyed goddess herself bestowed on them
every art, so that they surpassed all mortal men as the best workers
with their hands; and the roads bore works of art like living, moving
creatures, and their fame was profound. For a wise craftsman, even
superior skill is free from guile." - Pindar, Odes ("Olympian" 7.45)

"They celebrate a yearly festival of Athena, where their maidens are
separated into two bands and fight each other with stones and sticks,
thus (they say) honoring in the way of their ancestors that native
goddess whom we call Athena. Maidens who die of their wounds are
called false virgins. Before the girls are set fighting, the whole
people choose the fairest maid, and arm her with a Corinthian helmet
and Greek panoply, to be then mounted on a chariot and drawn all along
the lake shore. With what armor they equipped their maidens before
Greeks came to live near them, I cannot say; but I suppose the armor
was Egyptian; for I maintain that the Greeks took their shield and
helmet from Egypt. As for Athena, they say that she was daughter of
Poseidon and the Tritonian lake, and that, being for some reason angry
at her father, she gave herself to Zeus, who made her his own
daughter. Such is their tale. The intercourse of men and women there
is promiscuous; they do not cohabit but have intercourse like cattle.
When a woman's child is well grown, the men assemble within three
months and the child is adjudged to be that man's whom it is most
like." - Herodotus, The Histories CLXXX.2-6

Today is sacred to Minerva, the goddess of wisdom, war, the arts,
industry, justice and skill, known to the Greeks as Athena.

An oracle foretold to Zeus, the king of the gods, that if his wife
Metis bore another child it would be a boy who would depose him. He
promptly swallowed Metis, but was later smitten by terrible pains in
his head - Metis had begun making her daughter's armor while inside
Iuppiter's head. Mercury, the messenger of the gods, suspected the
cause, and persuaded Vulcan, the god of fire, to split his head open.
Immediately Minerva leapt out, fully grown and in full armour. She
became his favourite child, and he gave her his shield, the aegis,
which bore the image of the gorgon Medusa, and the thunderbolt. She
is the virgin mother of Erichthnonius.

Minerva and Neptune were very fond of a certain city in Greece. Both
of them claimed the city, it was decided that the one that could give
the finest gift should have it. Neptune struck the side of the cliff
with his trident and a spring welled up. The people marveled, but the
water was as salty as Neptune's sea and it was not very useful.
Minerva's gift was an olive tree, which was better because it gave the
people food, oil and wood. Minerva (as the Greek Athena) named her
city Athens.

Minerva's companion is the goddess of victory, Nike, and her usual
attribute is the owl. Sacred to her are the olive, serpent, owl,
lance, and crow. As Minerva Medica, she is the goddess of medicine
and doctors.

In 207 B.C., a guild of poets and actors was formed to meet and make
votive offerings at the temple of Minerva on the Aventine hill. Among
others, its members included Livius Andronicus. The Aventine sanctuary
of Minerva continued to be an important center of the arts for much of
the middle Roman Republic. With Iuppiter and Iuno, she forms the
great Capitoline Triad of gods.

Valete bene!

Cato

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>
> I'd like to say a couple of things here.
>
>
>
> First - bearing in mind that I have called upon the consul to re-consider and
> allow Scholastica's candidacy - the power to appoint the vigintisexviri was
> given under the authority of the Senate, and in a senatus consultum ultimum.
> When Scholastica says "This is not a matter of imperium (which does not matter
> to me)..." we see the very heart of the matter.
>
> ATS: Oh, Cato, you have surprised me by failing to understand what I
> said. Perhaps I wasn¹t clear enough, so let me try to clarify: I don¹t care
> about having imperium, that is, I do not seek imperium (unlike some of us
> around here, for whom it apparently is the ultimate good). The people,
> however, do deserve a choice in who has it.
>
> The senatus consultum ultimum gives the consul the absolute authority - the
> imperium - to do exactly what it says. The actual wording of the Constitution
> is this:
>
> "The Senate shall have the power to issue the Senatus consultum ultimum (the
> ultimate decree of the Senate). When in effect, this decree will supersede all
> other governmental bodies and authorities (with the exception of the dictator)
> and allow the Senate to invest the consuls with absolute powers to deal with a
> specific situation..." (Const. N.R. 5.E)
>
> So the Senate gave the consul the absolute authority to deal with the lack of
> vigintisexviri.
>
> He did so.
>
> ATS: And excused at least one of them, plus I now see that another has not
> appeared...but she was dismissed. Maybe I should simply have not said
> anything, and not appeared...I still haven¹t entered the relevant e-mail list,
> and have no intention of so doing. I guess I have disappeared as much as
> Finnica has...
>
> Now, how many of us have been called for jury duty? How many of us have tried
> to get *out* of jury duty by claiming some handicap of one kind or another?
> How often does that actually work?
>
> ATS: Oh Cato, here again we have a problem, for your analogy is hardly
> perfect. Jury duty does not keep one from running for office, not even in NR,
> but being appointed as an election official does. Of course I don¹t know how
> the jury system works in NYC, but around here, they provide a phone number and
> give the prospective juror a number; one must telephone daily to see if one¹s
> number has come up, and then appear...for one day. Or less. In my case, even
> if I had to appear (and I didn¹t the last time I was called), I would not be
> put on a jury, for your average attorney does not want people with graduate
> degrees on his juries, especially if they watch the news and have studied
> rhetoric. Heck, they might see through his rhetoric, and that might damage
> his case. Incidentally, a fair number of people are in fact excused from jury
> duty, and since our population base is much smaller than yours, methinks that
> even in NYC, one would stand a good chance of being excused. Have you ever
> been summoned to jury duty, or served on a jury?
>
> The answer is that every citizen in the United States understands that jury
> duty is a civil responsibility.
>
> ATS: Most of us do, anyway. I wonder how many NR citizens know that
> they, too, can be summoned for online jury duty. Even here, however, being
> appointed as a judex (even if accepted) does not prevent one from holding a
> magistracy or religious office, or from running for one. Being appointed as
> an election official does prevent candidacy, and therefore abrogates one¹s
> rights as a result. Those who run for either of these election offices know
> that, and surrender that right for the year...but some think better of that,
> and resign so that they can in fact run for office. Those who are drafted
> for such duty, whose refusal is rejected, have no such right. I have refused
> this office on a number of grounds, and am not alone in either refusing it or
> failing to appear. The difference is that one person who refused was allowed
> to withdraw, and another who did not appear or contact the presiding
> magistrate was dismissed. I wasn¹t. Why? The person who was excused (and
> rightly so) is capable of performing the duties in question, whereas I lack
> his superior skills in that regard, and am particularly busy at this time due
> to midterm and other examinations. He, moreover, is not running for office,
> whereas I had petitioned to do that. The other party apparently simply didn¹t
> appear; perhaps I should have done the same. Denying me the opportunity to
> reject this appointment, especially when I expressed a desire to run for
> office, looks suspiciously as if the primary, if not the sole, purpose of this
> appointment was to keep me off the ticket and give you and any prospective
> colleague a free pass to the coveted consulate. Now maybe that is not the
> case, but it certainly does not appear to have been done for no purpose other
> than to provide a respected long-time citizen as diribitrix.
>
> Incidentally, Cato, I have a note from our imperator saying that he had
> put me on the official candidates¹ page...but maybe he changed his mind when
> he thought up this new and more devious way of silencing the opposition. If
> this precedent is allowed to stand, no candidate will be safe; none will be
> allowed to run if their politics don¹t suit those of the consul. As the
> handpicked successors of the current (loosely defined) team, you can pull the
> same dirty trick, and so can your successors. We have moved from a Res
> Publica, with free elections, to something rather different. In the past, all
> candidates who fulfilled the requirements were accepted whatever their views;
> only those who did not meet the qualifications were not accepted. Now only
> those whose politics suit are allowed to contend...and that, too, mostly
> unopposed. We now have coronations instead of elections. That may please
> you, for you will be acclaimed as consul, but it bodes ill for Nova Roma.
>
> If you and the other candidates actually stood for anything that is right,
> if you actually put certain of your religious tenets into practice, you and
> they would withdraw in protest, and the people would refuse to vote on the
> magistracies. The election officials would refuse to count the votes or
> certify the election, and if they did, the lictores would think enough of
> their personal honor not to confer imperium on any elected in such a fashion.
> However, here we have sheep, just like those who flock to the airports and
> submit to their choice of public nudity or sexual assault as the price of
> sitting on an airplane. Octavius was silenced; who will be next? Will anyone
> else stand up to this outrage?
>
> GEC: The judge in a US courtroom has been given, by the government, absolute
> authority within that sphere - to run his courtroom as he sees fit and to
> decide who may avoid jury duty and who may not; it is certainly not a
> trampling of my rights under the US Constitution that I be called and made to
> serve. To avoid jury duty I would be required to show absolutely *compelling*
> evidence that doing so would cause me or my family irreparable harm in some
> way.
>
> ATS: Again, I am not familiar with the situation in NYC, but here we have
> a commissioner of jurors, who decides on such matters. The judges do not.
> The judges do not send out jury duty notices, nor do they rule on who may or
> may not serve as jurors. Within the courtroom, they have some latitude in
> choosing those who will sit on an individual jury, as do the attorneys, but
> actual service as a juror is not determined by any judge. To reiterate, jury
> duty does not prevent anything else (other than going to work, perhaps
> sleeping at home), but duty as an NR election official does. In the real
> world, too, perhaps the elections commissioner can¹t run for office...but s/he
> has a choice in the matter. You are trying to compare not apples and oranges,
> but cats and polecats. Jury duty is the former, both in NR and the outside
> world.
>
> As Scholastica has declined to show us what her actual words were,
>
> ATS: Some of them may be hiding in plain sight.
>
>
> and only paraphrases them as under an inability to perform the functions of
> the job (counting ballots) - *not* that she intended to run for office and
> should therefore be allowed to be released -
>
> ATS: Oh? You think that a prospective candidate MIGHT be allowed to be
> released? Does our consul agree with you? In any case, all correspondence,
> or the most relevant part thereof, will eventually be provided to certain
> parties, if not the shrunken ML. It must be assembled, and that takes time.
> Sorry about that, but I have exams to write and correct, and the former at
> least must be done on time.
>
>
> if this were a US court she would be told to sit down and stay in her seat as
> a prospective juror.
>
> ATS: Have you ever been in a jury pool? Most of the sitting involves
> watching the tube. Read if you can. Very little involves sitting in the jury
> box, and many are excused during the voir dire.
>
> This is what the consul has done.
>
> ATS: Perhaps on the surface...but outside of places like Hollywood and
> Bollywood, the surface matters only in certain of the arts and sciences
> (painting, physics...), not ethics. This is a moral issue.
>
> Scholastica doesn't like it. I don't blame her, but that does not excuse her
> from her appointed duties to the Respublica.
>
> ATS: Respublica? What Respublica? It¹s dead. I refused this
> appointment on a number of grounds, and that should have been quite
> sufficient. Others were released. I wasn¹t. Now, why is that?
>
>
> Second, to portray those who are running for office as some sort of
> monolithic, Borg-like hive mind is utterly ridiculous.
>
> ATS: Oh? Well, yes, different religious views are represented: Venator
> is Asatru, you are Orthodox, Gualterus may be a devotee of Mithras (for all I
> know), and it is likely that some of the others are cultores deorum
> Romanorum...but politically, you seem to be slightly different flavors of the
> same product.
>
> I have heard murmurings, too, that the more paranoid among us think that I
> conspired to run for office (no; sorry), and / or was told to do so (ditto),
> and saw some comment (here, I believe) that I was a whining old lady. Please
> be advised that I do not whine, and while I am a lady, I am not old. Age is a
> matter of physiology, not chronology.
>
>
> Just because Venator and I both fought hard against the attempt to drag the
> Respublica into a theocracy based on hatred and division does not mean that we
> think alike by any means whatsoever.
>
>
> ATS: Well, I don¹t approve of a theocracy based on anything (the Islamic
> Republic of Iran is less than appealing), or a government based on hatred and
> division. Surprised?
>
>
> It means that he and I agreed that these particular actions were abhorrent to
> the health and safety of the Respublica,
>
>
> ATS: And I suspect that I would agree with you overall.
>
>
> and acted in that light. I'd be willing to bet that both President Obama and
> ex-President Bush both think that cancer is a horrific disease, and would both
> like to wipe it out. That does not mean they think alike on any number of
> other things.
>
>
> ATS: It also does not mean that either has the ability to wipe cancer
> out. The best either could do is increase funding for research. Now, maybe
> both of them also think that Parkinson¹s or Alzheimer¹s or any of several
> other diseases are horrific, but if I were a betting person, I might bet that
> Obama would be more willing than W not only to fund, but also to allow,
> embryonic stem cell research, even if that were proven to assist in curing or
> eliminating these diseases.
>
>
> So yes, Octavius' speeches were histrionic, catering to a lowest common
> denominator of fear and unrest, and as such should be viewed not as the calm,
> rational disagreement to a particular situation but as the wildly inaccurate
> and ill-stated rants that they were.
>
> ATS: Emotional, perhaps. As for accuracy, methinks he was pretty close
> to spot on. Besides, there was a nice description of our wonderful British
> Conventus...too bad you missed that.
>
> I don't know if the consul will allow Scholastica to run.
>
>
> ATS: Oh, I¹m sure he won¹t. It would give you an opponent, and a
> candidate who does not share certain viewpoints you and the others almost
> certainly do. I would have thought that you would have preferred to win in an
> honest, contested election, but then...
>
>
> I think in his mind that to do so simply because we want him to is not a
> justification that will hold much water. He has stood with his hands pressed
> firmly against an avalanche of disregard for our law
>
> ATS: What avalanche was that? Certainly we have had paralysis, with the
> consules doing what apparently was never done in ancient Rome (vetoing each
> other¹s meetings of the Senate), and with, shall we say, unusual religious
> objections being tossed about. It has been a very bad year.
>
>
>
> and his personal dignity over the past several months, and to allow someone to
> refuse to serve the State because they just don't want to
>
> ATS: This is not a matter of Don¹t want to. I serve the State in a
> number of ways, as I have for years.
>
>
> is an insult to that law, the law *we*, the citizens, made and gave him the
> imperium to uphold.
>
> ATS: Those of us who are polite think one should ask before imposing a
> duty on someone, especially when it was totally unexpected and not within the
> skill set of the prospective appointee. One should then be allowed to
> decline, as one of us was.
>
>
> What I *do* know is that he has the duty to uphold the law as best as he
> possibly can. We elected him to do so, and gave him the authority to do so.
> Normally, he might have a colleague to consult, even if they disagree. His
> has vanished.
>
> ATS: Well, his colleague does put in appearances now and again, so I
> wouldn¹t state that he had vanished. I also note that some years ago, a
> praetor vanished and Quintilianus was among those who made great efforts to
> find that individual. I also note that I seem to recall that a great fuss was
> made over the consul at the time having to take over the duties of both
> praetorships and both consulates...but that gentleman did not exercise the
> kind of authority which is being imposed on us here in a similar situation.
> Of course, he was from the other faction, so his actions may be criticized,
> however just they were, but those of a newly-minted ally of Certain Parties
> may not be criticized, no matter what.
>
>
> So I refuse to belittle him, no matter what choice he makes.
>
> ATS: I am not belittling him, either. That is inappropriate (there¹s
> that difficult concept again)! Our consul is highly educated, and
> intelligent. He was also quite gentlemanly at Conventus. Here, however, he
> is wrong. Perhaps he has not yet attained the level of Divus, and may yet
> make mistakes...
>
> Don¹t worry, Cato; it won¹t be long until your coronation. The imperium
> stick will be placed in your hand, and the pointy hat set on your head; maybe
> someone will even lay the One Ring on a velvet cushion before you and let you
> place it on your finger. The one-party rule of a dictatorship has replaced
> the two (or more) party version of a res publica. The trappings you and your
> pals despised when they belonged to others will be yours, and treasured.
> It¹ll be only a few more days; I¹m sure you can wait.
>
>
>
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>
> Valete.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

L. Livia Plauta omnibus sal.

I think these three excerpts of Scholastica's post need to be repeated,
because they may have gone unnoticed in the middle of the long post.

Of course I agree with her analysis. if anyone had any doubts about why I'm
still here, I repeat it once again: I'm not resigning because in Nova Roma I
can have the privilege of witnessing the birth of a totalitarian system
without being negatively affected.
Unfortunately I'm witnessing the same in Hungary, but as that's a real
nation, I do have to fear real consequences, and it's not as much fun to
watch.

Optime valete,
Livia

>
> Incidentally, Cato, I have a note from our imperator saying that he
> had
> put me on the official candidates¹ page...but maybe he changed his mind
> when
> he thought up this new and more devious way of silencing the opposition.
> If
> this precedent is allowed to stand, no candidate will be safe; none will
> be
> allowed to run if their politics don¹t suit those of the consul. As the
> handpicked successors of the current (loosely defined) team, you can pull
> the
> same dirty trick, and so can your successors. We have moved from a Res
> Publica, with free elections, to something rather different. In the past,
> all
> candidates who fulfilled the requirements were accepted whatever their
> views;
> only those who did not meet the qualifications were not accepted. Now
> only
> those whose politics suit are allowed to contend...and that, too, mostly
> unopposed. We now have coronations instead of elections. That may please
> you, for you will be acclaimed as consul, but it bodes ill for Nova Roma.
>
> If you and the other candidates actually stood for anything that is
> right,
> if you actually put certain of your religious tenets into practice, you
> and
> they would withdraw in protest, and the people would refuse to vote on the
> magistracies. The election officials would refuse to count the votes or
> certify the election, and if they did, the lictores would think enough of
> their personal honor not to confer imperium on any elected in such a
> fashion.
> However, here we have sheep, just like those who flock to the airports and
> submit to their choice of public nudity or sexual assault as the price of
> sitting on an airplane. Octavius was silenced; who will be next? Will
> anyone
> else stand up to this outrage?
>

--------

>
> ATS: Respublica? What Respublica? It¹s dead. I refused this
> appointment on a number of grounds, and that should have been quite
> sufficient. Others were released. I wasn¹t. Now, why is that?
>

------------

> Don¹t worry, Cato; it won¹t be long until your coronation. The
> imperium
> stick will be placed in your hand, and the pointy hat set on your head;
> maybe
> someone will even lay the One Ring on a velvet cushion before you and let
> you
> place it on your finger. The one-party rule of a dictatorship has
> replaced
> the two (or more) party version of a res publica. The trappings you and
> your
> pals despised when they belonged to others will be yours, and treasured.
> It¹ll be only a few more days; I¹m sure you can wait.
>

Salvete,

I believe that Scholastica should be allowed to stand for Consul and said as much in my last post on this issue. I also pointed out I was prevented from being a candidate last year even though I met all of the requirements to stand and to serve in office.

I am not sure but I do not recall many of TPTB standing up for me at that time.
I hope this years refusal is not a case of what goes around comes around.

Valete

Ti. Galerius Paulinus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Tullius Valerianus Au. Liburnio S.D.

Salve, Liburni!
You wrote:

> I noticed that only one tribunes has posted a short statement at the
> "official" page of the Comitia Plebis reserved to this purpose.
>

I respond:
Perhaps, like myself, they felt that the statements they made when they
declared their candidacies spoke for themselves.

You wrote:

> I do not even know where you stand on the issue of defending the Plebeians
> vs their current marginalization and future attempts to silence them.
>

I respond:
You do not know where I stand? Considering my rather vocal role in
speaking out against the illegalities and abuses of the now-defeated coup
attempt, I would have thought that was obvious. But where I stand is with
the law, the Constitution, and the people. The illegal attempt to seize
power by appointing a pliable dictator was a disgrace, and we needed a good
tribune to protect the people - which Gaius Petronius Dexter did, admirably.
I intend to protect the Constitution and the people of Nova Roma, and vow
not to let any faction seize power illegally.
I would like to add that the exclusion of Aula Tullia Scholastica from
running for consul would appear to have been done legally. That does not
mean it's right, and I have urged Consul Albucius to reconsider. I argue on
her behalf, both as a matter of decency and because she is my cousin (a
fellow member of the gens Tullia) and colleague (a fellow Latinist).

You wrote:

> And Albucius has everything to do with anything currently happening in Nova
> Roma: he has absolute power.
>

I respond:
You are incorrect on both counts. One, the candidacies for plebeian
offices were accepted or rejected by Tribune of the Plebs Gaius Petronius
Dexter. Albucius was not involved. Secondly, Albucius does not have absolute
power - his power is limited by our Constitution, our laws, our Tribunes,
and his consular colleague. Of those, the Constitution, the laws, and at
least Tribune Dexter stand firm. His colleague could take action if he
wished, but does not do so, and as the Romans said, "Qui tacet consentit" -
Whoever does not speak, consents. So Quintilianus consents to everything
that is happening in Nova Roma. With both colleagues in agreement, what is
the problem?

I answer you, Liburni, not because I owe you an explanation (you have
declared yourself a non-voter, and if you don't care about Nova Roma enough
to vote, you forfeit any moral, though not legal, right to demand
explanations or complain about anything), but because there may be others
who don't know my record, who DO want to vote and participate and make
things better. I answer you so that *they* know where I stand, and can make
good decisions when casting their votes.

Vale!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]