Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Jan 1-21, 2011

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82674 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: OATH OF OFFICE - Gaius Equitius Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82675 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82676 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Noon-Time offering on my entry into the Consulship
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82677 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82678 From: C.Maria Caeca Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82679 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82680 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: P Ullerius Stephanus Venator - Sacramentum Muneris
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82681 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: Noon-Time offering on my entry into the Consulship
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82682 From: Charlie Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath of Office as Tribunus Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82683 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82684 From: Vladimir Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath of Office of Aulus Vitellius Celsus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82685 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82686 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath of Office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82687 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Praetorial edict: Appointment of scribes
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82688 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82689 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82690 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: Noon-Time offering on my entry into the Consulship
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82691 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Text of my offering ritual...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82692 From: Christer Edling Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: After ten years
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82693 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath Of Office: Curule Aedile Maior (English&Latin Trans.)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82694 From: Sabinus Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Kalendae Ianuariae: Annum novum bonum faustum felicem!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82695 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: On CFBQ and GEM 's resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82696 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath as Rex Sacrorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82697 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: FIRST REX SACRORUM of NR ENTERS OFFICE TODAY
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82698 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath of Office: Praetor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82699 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82700 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: Oath as Rex Sacrorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82701 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: New Year's Ritual to Father Janus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82702 From: Gaia Valeria Pulchra Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath of Office of the Plebeian Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82703 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: Oath as Rex Sacrorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82704 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Your Personal New Year's Ritual
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82705 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: After every Kalends, Nones, Ides, the next day is "Ater", 1/2/2011,
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82706 From: C.Maria Caeca Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: new year's prayer and offering to Dea Vesta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82707 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath of Office - Custos
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82708 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: new year's prayer and offering to Dea Vesta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82709 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: After every Kalends, Nones, Ides, the next day is "Ater", 1/2/20
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82710 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: After every Kalends, Nones, Ides, the next day is "Ater", 1/2/20
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82711 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82712 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82713 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82714 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: a.d. IV Non. Ian.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82715 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82716 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82717 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Oath of censorial office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82718 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: On NR official lists and others and their status
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82719 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Religio Romana list
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82720 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Religio_Romana_Cultorum_Deorum@yahoogroups.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82721 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82722 From: Gaius Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82723 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82724 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82725 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82726 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82727 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82728 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Rudimenta Latina class
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82729 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82730 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82731 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82732 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82733 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82734 From: Tragedienne Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Call For Scribae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82735 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: a.d. III Non. Ian.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82736 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Praetorial edict: scribe appointment
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82737 From: Gaia Valeria Pulchra Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Correction to Oath of Office of Plebeian Aedile
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82738 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-04
Subject: prid. Non. Ian.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82739 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-05
Subject: NONIIS IANUARIIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82740 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-06
Subject: a.d. VIII Id. Ian.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82741 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2011-01-06
Subject: MY BEST WISHES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82742 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-06
Subject: Re: MY BEST WISHES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82743 From: mjk@datanet.ab.ca Date: 2011-01-06
Subject: Re: MY BEST WISHES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82744 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-07
Subject: a.d. VII Id. Ian.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82745 From: Vladimir Date: 2011-01-07
Subject: Curule Aediles EDICTUM 2064-01 : Appointment of Scribae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82746 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2011-01-07
Subject: Book recommendation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82747 From: Ian McKay Date: 2011-01-07
Subject: Re: [NR_Senaculum] MY BEST WISHES
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82748 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-07
Subject: Praetorial edict: Appointment of primus scriba
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82749 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Re: Book recommendation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82750 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Funny meeting.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82751 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: a.d. VI Id. Ian.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82752 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Re: Book recommendation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82753 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Censorial edict on the composition of the Senate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82754 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Congratulations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82755 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Re: Funny meeting.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82756 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: princeps senatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82757 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Praetorial edict: Moderation of the Forum Novae Romae (aka Main List
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82758 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Re: princeps senatus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82759 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Re: Praetorial edict: Moderation of the Forum Novae Romae (aka Main
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82760 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-09
Subject: a.d. V Id. Ian.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82761 From: Sabinus Date: 2011-01-09
Subject: Edictum censoris Iulli Sabini de officio censoris.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82762 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-01-09
Subject: Thank you
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82763 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-01-09
Subject: Gratulor Princep Senatus Palladius!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82764 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-01-09
Subject: Re: Thank you
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82765 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-09
Subject: Felicitations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82766 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-10
Subject: a.d. IV Id. Ian.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82767 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2011-01-10
Subject: Latin phrase of the day., 1/11/2011, 12:00 am
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82768 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-11
Subject: a.d. III Id. Ian.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82769 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2011-01-11
Subject: Latin phrase of the day, 1/12/2011, 12:00 am
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82770 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-11
Subject: Re: Latin phrase of the day, 1/12/2011, 12:00 am
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82771 From: A. Domitia Date: 2011-01-11
Subject: Oath of Quaestrix
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82772 From: L. Lucretius Caupo Date: 2011-01-11
Subject: Re: Latin phrase of the day, 1/12/2011, 12:00 am
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82773 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-12
Subject: prid. Id. Ian.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82774 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-12
Subject: Re: Latin phrase of the day, 1/12/2011, 12:00 am
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82775 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-13
Subject: IDIBUS IANURIIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82776 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-14
Subject: a.d. XIX Kal. Feb.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82778 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-14
Subject: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82779 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-14
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82780 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-15
Subject: a.d. XVIII Kal. Feb.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82781 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-15
Subject: Greetings all...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82782 From: Gaia Valeria Pulchra Date: 2011-01-15
Subject: The Coming Games and YOU!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82783 From: L. Lucretius Caupo Date: 2011-01-15
Subject: Re: The Coming Games and YOU!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82784 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: ad Consules Praetoresque et plebis Tribunos
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82785 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: a.d. XVII Kal. Feb.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82786 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: Re: ad Consules Praetoresque et plebis Tribunos
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82787 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: CONCORDIA honored today
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82788 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82789 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: Re: CONCORDIA honored today
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82790 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82791 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82792 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82793 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82794 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82795 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82796 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82797 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Augury, Calling the Senate, Quaestors...concerns expressed
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82798 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: a.d. XVI Kal. FEb.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82799 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82800 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82801 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82802 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82803 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82804 From: Gaia Valeria Pulchra Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: The Coming Games and YOU!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82805 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82806 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82807 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82808 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82809 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82810 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82811 From: C.Maria Caeca Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82812 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82813 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82814 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82815 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82816 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82817 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82818 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82819 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82820 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2011-01-18
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82821 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-18
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82822 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-18
Subject: a.d. XV Kal. Feb.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82823 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-01-18
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82824 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-18
Subject: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82825 From: Charlie Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: "When Rome Ruled" on the National Geographic Channel
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82826 From: Sabinus Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82827 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82828 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82829 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82830 From: Delphicapollo Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82831 From: Cn. Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82832 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82833 From: Delphicapollo Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82834 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82835 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82836 From: Delphicapollo Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82837 From: Delphicapollo Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82838 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82839 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82840 From: Gaia Valeria Pulchra Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: On the Hot Topic of the Virgo Maxima
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82841 From: Delphicapollo Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82842 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: a.d. XIV Kal. Feb.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82843 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-01-20
Subject: Re: On the Hot Topic of the Virgo Maxima
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82844 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-20
Subject: a.d. XIII Kal. Feb.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82845 From: Tragedienne Date: 2011-01-20
Subject: Re: On the Hot Topic of the Virgo Maxima
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82846 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2011-01-20
Subject: British TV programme tonight
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82847 From: David Carmichael Date: 2011-01-20
Subject: a passing
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82848 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-20
Subject: Re: a passing
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82849 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-20
Subject: A reminder...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82850 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2011-01-21
Subject: Senate Call



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82674 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: OATH OF OFFICE - Gaius Equitius Cato
Ego, Gaius Equitius Cato (Michael L Cerrato), hac re ipsa decus Novae Romae me defensurum, et semper pro populo senatuque Novae Romae acturum esse sollemniter IVRO.

Ego, Gaius Equitius Cato (Michael L Cerrato) officio Consulis Novae Romae accepto, deos deasque Romae in omnibus meae vitae publicae temporibus culturum, et virtutes Romanas publica privataque vita me persecuturum esse IVRO.

Ego, Gaius Equitius Cato (Michael L Cerrato) Religioni Romanae me fauturum et eam defensurum, et numquam contra eius statum publicum me acturum esse, ne quid detrimenti capiat IVRO.

Ego, Gaius Equitius Cato (Michael L Cerrato) consulis officiis muneris me quam optime functurum esse praeterea IVRO.

Meo civis Novae Romae honore, coram deis deabusque populi Romani, et
voluntate favoreque eorum, ego munus Consulis una cum iuribus, privilegiis, muneribus et officiis comitantibus ACCIPIO.

Datum sub manu mea Kal. Ian. 2764 aVc Publio Ullerio Venatoris Gai Equitii Catoni coss.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I, Gaius Equitius Cato (Michael L Cerrato) do hereby solemnly swear
to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gaius Equitius Cato (Michael L Cerrato) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Gaius Equitius Cato (Michael L Cerrato) swear to uphold and
defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Gaius Equitius Cato (Michael L Cerrato) swear to protect and
defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Gaius Equitius Cato (Michael L Cerrato) further swear to fulfill
the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Consul to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by Their will and favor, do I accept the position of Consul and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

I do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

Given by my hand on the Kalends of Ianuarius 2764 AVC in the consulships of Ullerius Venator and Gaius Equitius Cato.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82675 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Q. Suetonio Paulino C. Mariae Caecae quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Salvete!
>
> I have belonged to many cultural societies over the years and currently my
> wife, Vibia Lucretia is on the board of directors for our Mexican association
> here in Alberta. These comings and goings seem to be par for the course and
> have to be taken in stride or everything falls apart for good.
>
> ATS: Yes, there will be turnover in any organization. It is, however,
> very sad when an honorable long-time member who has held every office is so
> disgusted that he or she feels that it is necessary to leave.
>
>
> Some people remain members through thick and thin, never giving up whilst
> others will fly the coup if you look at them sideways or say the wrong thing.
>
> ATS: This, too, is quite true; some leave on the slightest provocation,
> and some stick with it. Methinks Marinus stuck with it as long as he could.
> He was with us for many years, but on this, the last day of the free Res
> Publica of Nova Roma, we who knew him mourn his departure from our midst. In
> a few minutes from the time I started to write this much-interrupted letter,
> the terms of the last freely elected magistrates in Nova Roma will end, and
> those handpicked to take their places will enter their offices, swept clean of
> a good many old-fashioned virtues. Honor has packed her bags, and wiped the
> dust of Nova Roma from her feet and trailing skirts; along with her have fled
> the other virtues. To be sure not all of the incoming magistrates lack that
> virtue, or any other, but some surely do. Suetoni, you and Marinus and I are
> among those who remember a time when Nova Roma nurtured fewer vipers in her
> bosom, a time when friends did not turn on their friends and perhaps even
> enemies respected one another. We remember a time when candidates for office
> may have been unopposed, but were not handpicked to be from one political
> viewpoint or faction; we remember a time when the presiding magistrate may
> have held his or her nose when accepting a candidacy, but admitted all
> qualified candidates. We remember a time when deceit and treachery did not
> mark our Res Publica, and when Romanitas was important, more important than an
> alien entity which has elbowed its way into our midst. We remember a time
> when one person held the imperia of four offices, but did not abuse those
> powers; we remember a time when many things which scarred this year simply
> would never have happened. Sadly, those days are gone. The principate has
> arrived; the dying gasps of the free Res Publica were the sound track of the
> departure of one of our finest citizens.
>
> QSP: Hence I've become a little more harder and immune over the years to
> resignations, apathy et al. As my wife's mom taught her think of friends and
> members as feathers on a chicken's back. Some will eventually fall off and
> blow away yet others will sprout up and fill in the patches.
>
> ATS: Ah, but some will never return...and it seems that our Roman eagle
> has turned into a creature far more like that which gave origin to the birds.
>
> Cheers and happy new year
>
> Quem tibi nonnullis aliisque quidem exopto.
>
> QSP
>
>
> Vale.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: David Kling
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 31, 2010 3:17 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] On Resignations
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus C. Mariae Caecae salutem dicit
>
> It is sad to see citizens resign. Yesterday I had the sad task of informing
> the senate that Cn. Equitius Marinus resigned from Nova Roma.
>
> When people leave Nova Roma it leaves a "whole" in our community. One
> resignation will often, as I have seen, lead to other resignations and often
> seem unrelated. We, as a community, are getting smaller and smaller. Nova
> Roma has a lot to offer and it is bothersome to see people leave.
>
> This year has had problems for Nova Roma. I hope that next year will be
> more auspicious.
>
> Vale et valete;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 2:33 AM, C.Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...
> <mailto:c.mariacaeca%40gmail.com> >wrote:
>
>> >
>> >
>> > C. Maria Caeca omnibus in foro S. P. D.
>> >
>> > It is always disheartening to see NR citizens resign ...but, perhaps,
>> > especially, to see our non North American citizens leave us. One of the
>> > things which attracted me to NR, and keeps me here, is our International
>> > character, and I hope, sincerely, that we do not lose that. I do, of
>> course,
>> > wish those who have indicated their desire to leave NR all the best, and
>> > hope that they will find their way back "home", but I also hope that many
>> > will stay with us, and give our new Government the benefit of the doubt.
NR
>> > has much to offer ...for all citizens, no matter where they live or what
>> > their native language might be; and, I think, and have always thought,
>> that,
>> > if we are to build a truly functional Res Publica, it will of necessity,
be
>> > international in character, containing, as did Roma Antiqua, a healthy
>> > diversity of cultures, represented by citizens from many places.
>> >
>> > I would like, also, at this time, to wish all a vey happy New year, filled
>> > with all good things.
>> >
>> > Valete,
>> > C. Maria Caeca, Cives
>> >




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82676 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Noon-Time offering on my entry into the Consulship
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Following the example set by my predecessors in several years, at noon (Eastern time) I will be offering the following ritual:

Iane pater, te hoc ture commovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies
volens propitius mihi et Senatui Populoque Novae Romae.

[Father Ianus, by offering this incense to you I pray good prayers, so that you may be propitious to me and the Senate and People of Nova Roma.]

Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.

Mars pater, te hoc ture commovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies
volens propitius mihi et Senatui Populoque Novae Romae.

[Father Mars, by offering this incense to you I pray good prayers, so that you may be propitious to me and the Senate and People of Nova Roma.]

Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.

Quirine pater, te hoc ture commovendo bonas preces precor, uti sies
volens propitius mihi et Senatui Populoque Novae Romae.

[Father Quirinus, by offering this incense to you I pray good prayers, so that you may be propitious to me and the Senate and People of Nova Roma.]

Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.

Iane pater, uti te ture commovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto.

[Father Ianus, as by offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of this be honored by this humble wine.]

Libation of wine is made.

Mars pater, uti te ture commovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto.

[Father Mars, as by offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of this be honored by this humble wine.]

Libation of wine is made.

Quirine pater, uti te ture commovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto.

[Father Quirinus, as by offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of this be honored by this humble wine.]

Libation of wine is made.

Hands are washed in preparation for the praecatio.

Precatio

Iuppiter Optime Maxime, rex Deorum, qui res publicas Novas Romanas
nunc custodit defenditque perinde ac res publicas patrum nostrorum
Romanorum custodivit defenditque, tibi fieri oportet in hoc tempore
initii culignam vini dapi, eius rei ergo hac illace dape pullucenda
esto.

[Iuppiter Best and Greatest, king of the Gods, who protects and
defends the public affairs of Nova Roma just as he protected and
defended the public affairs of our Roman fathers, to you it is proper
for a cup of wine to be given in this time of beginning, for the sake
of this thing may you be honored by this feast offering].

Libation of wine is made.

Iuno, regina Deorum, qui materne nunc Senatum Populumque Novae Romae
nutrit perinde ac Senatum Populumque Romanum in tempore partum
nostrorum nutrivit, tibi fieri oportet in hoc tempore initii culignam
vini dapi, eius rei ergo hac illace dape pullucenda esto.

[Iuno, queen of the Gods, who maternally nurtures the Senate and People of Nova Roma just as she nurtured the Senate and People of Rome in the time of our fathers, to you it is proper for a cup of wine to be given in this time of beginning, for the sake of this thing may you be honored by this feast offering].

Libation of wine is made.

Minerva, sapientia aeterna, qui recte res publicas Novas Romanas ducit
perinde ac res publicas patrum nostrorum Romanorum duxit, tibi fieri
oportet in hoc tempore initii culignam vini dapi, eius rei ergo hac
illace dape pullucenda esto.

[Minerva, eternal wisdom, who rightly
guides the public affairs of Nova Roma just as she rightly guided the
public affairs of our Roman fathers, to you it is proper for a cup of
wine to be given in this time of beginning, for the sake of this thing
may you be honored by this feast offering].

Libation of wine is made.

Salus, benefactrix Senatus Populique Romani et fideiussorix salutis
nostrae, qui Novam Romam conservat perinde ac Romam antiquam
conservavit, tibi fieri oportet in hoc tempore initii culignam vini
dapi, eius rei ergo hac illace dape pullucenda esto. [Salus,
benefactor of the Roman Senate and People and guarantor of our
well-being, who preserves Nova Roma just as she preserved ancient
Rome, to you it is proper for a cup of wine to be given in this time
of beginning, for the sake of this thing may you be honored by this
feast offering].
Libation of wine is made.

Hands are washed in preparation for the redditio.

Redditio

Iuppiter Optime Maxime, rex Deorum, macte istace dape pollucenda esto,
macte vino inferio esto.

[Iuppiter Best and Greatest, king of the Gods, may you be honoured by this feast offering, may you be honored by the humble wine.]

Libation of wine is made, and an offering of cake is made.

Iuno, regina Deorum, macte istace dape pollucenda esto, macte vino
inferio esto.

[Iuno, queen of the Gods, may you be honored by this
feast offering, may you be honored by the humble wine.]

Libation of wine is made, and an offering of cake is made.

Minerva, sapientia aeterna, macte istace dape pollucenda esto, macte
vino inferio esto. [Minerva, eternal wisdom, may you be honored by
this feast offering, may you be honored by the humble wine.]
Libation of wine is made, and an offering of cake is made.

Salus, benefactrix Novae Romae, macte istace dape pollucenda esto,
macte vino inferio esto. [Salus, benefactrix of Nova Roma, may you be
honored by this feast offering, may you be honored by the humble
wine.]

Libation of wine is made, and an offering of cake is made.

Quirine pater, uti te ture commovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto. [Father Quirinus, as by
offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the
sake of this be honored by this humble wine.]
Libation of wine is made.

Mars pater, uti te ture commovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto.

[Father Mars, as by offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of this be honored by this humble wine.]

Libation of wine is made.

Iane pater, uti te ture commovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto.

[Father Ianus, as by offering to you the incense virtuous prayers were well prayed, for the sake of this be honored by this humble wine.]

Libation of wine is made.

Dea Vesta, custos ignis sacri, macte vino inferio esto.

[Goddess Vesta, guardian of the sacred fire, be honored by this humble wine.]

Libation of wine is made.

Illicet. [It is over.]


In preparation, I ask the augur Flavius Vedius Germanicus to take the auspices to ask if this ritual should occur at this time, or if another time is more propitious. Once it has been approved, I would ask all citizens to stop for just a moment if they can at noon (Eastern time) and stand in silence as this offering is made.

Valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82677 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Cato Tulliae Scholasticae omnibusque in foro SPD

Let us no more play the old saw of "hand-picked" candidates or a single "hive mentality" among those elected.

When the Goths approached the City, many wanted to abandon her and run for "safety"; the true Romans stayed and defended her and kept her spirit alive.

We are true Romans, and have to interest in despotism or imperial forms or any of that claptrap - unlike several of our predecessors. We are Republican Romans, held together by the law and mos maiorum and common sense.

I swear by whatever Divinities are in heaven that my actions shall be transparent always, my desires clearly known and explained, and submitted to the People, from whom my authority derives its authenticity, for approval.

May those same Powers grant peace and prosperity to our Respublica and all her citizens in this new decade.

Valete,

Gaius Equitius Cato
Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82678 From: C.Maria Caeca Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Salvete Omnes,

I think that the auspiciousness of this new year will depend on what each of us do. We have long standing issues with which we must deal, we have a declining population, and we will want to turn that around, once our house is in good order, and we have good people who, I trust, we will want to remain with us. while I have found Utopias interesting academic exercises, they are unrealistic, and I have no particular interest in trying to create one, especially since they reflect the opinions of one author (or small group) than anything else.

Neither do I wish to be a denizen in a shark tank, where those whose opinions are not in absolute concord with those in power are subject to character assassination, at best. there really is a middle ground, though ...and I happen to believe it can be found if we, all of us, work creatively and with good will to build something of lasting value, not just for a few, but for each citizen willing to make the commitment and do the work necessary. If we can be creative, if we can attend to the legal necessities on all levels, and if we can treat our fellow citizens with, if not kindness, at least civility, then I think we can see true progress in all areas of NR life. People will, naturally, come and go, for many reasons ...and their leaving is often a cause for sadness ...but we must, I think, tough we keep a light in the window and the door open, focus our energies on those who remain, and on those who come to us, that they may take their places in our Republic, and contribute in those ways which are best for them.

I will neither wring my hands in despair, nor will I proclaim this the beginning of our "golden age": but, with effort and good will, I think we could have a very good, and productive year, and, at least for me, that is sufficient; elegantly sufficient, as my Grandmother used to say. So, I wish all my fellow citizens a heartfelt Happy New Year ..in all areas of your lives, and, for NR, stability, prosperity, prudent creativity, and a sense of community, no matter how far flung we are, and no matter which language we speak. I hope that we will be able to remember that we have common interests and common goals, really, and that achieving them is, in the final analysis, not the burden of our Magistrates, but the challenge for each and very one of us.

Valete quam optime,
C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82679 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
C. Petronius A. Scholasticae s.p.d.,

>>>ATS: Yes, there will be turnover in any organization. It is, however, very sad when an honorable long-time member who has held every office is so disgusted that he or she feels that it is necessary to leave.<<<

CPD: I really thought that Nova Roma was more than an organization in the mind and the heart of Cn. Marinus. I am very surprised and rather desappointed by his resignation.

The resignation of Cn. Marinus, a gentleman, is a sad news, but, as I am optimist, I hope a

happy new year 2764 to Nova Roma!

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Kalendis Ianuariis P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82680 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: P Ullerius Stephanus Venator - Sacramentum Muneris
Salve et Salvete;

My best wishes to all Cives, Socii, Foederati et Peregrini that the
coming year bring us all, Blessings aplenty.

Ego, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator (Steven Patrick Stewart
Robinson), hac re ipsa decus Novae Romae me defensurum, et semper pro
populo senatuque Novae Romae acturum esse sollemniter IVRO.

Ego, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator (Steven Patrick Stewart
Robinson) officio Consulis Novae Romae accepto, deos deasque Romae in
omnibus meae vitae publicae temporibus culturum, et virtutes Romanas
publica privataque vita me persecuturum esse IVRO.

Ego, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator (Steven Patrick Stewart
Robinson) Religioni Romanae me fauturum et eam defensurum, et numquam
contra eius statum publicum me acturum esse, ne quid detrimenti capiat
IVRO.

Ego, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator (Steven Patrick Stewart
Robinson) consulis officiis muneris me quam optime functurum esse
praeterea IVRO.

Meo civis Novae Romae honore, coram deis deabusque populi Romani, et
voluntate favoreque eorum, ego munus Consulis una cum iuribus,
privilegiis, muneribus et officiis comitantibus ACCIPIO.

Scripsit, Kalenda Ianuarius MMDCCLXIV AVC - Publio Ullerio Stephano
Venatoris et Gai Equitii Catoni
Consulo pro Nova Roma

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator (Steven Patrick Stewart
Robinson) do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma,
and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate
of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
(Steven Patrick Stewart Robinson) swear to honor the Gods and
Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman
Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator (Steven Patrick Stewart
Robinson) swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State
Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would
threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator (Steven Patrick Stewart
Robinson) swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator (Steven Patrick Stewart
Robinson) further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of Consul to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods
and Goddesses of the Roman people and by Their will and favor, do I
accept the position of Consul and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

I do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to
act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova
Roma.

Written on 1 January 2010 CE during the adminstration of Publius
Ullerius Stephanus Venator and Gaius Equitius Cato Consuls of Nova
Roma

-----------------------------------------

I further state, that by the love I hold for the Holy Powers of my
Private Devotions and of my Family Line, I shall try my best for our
Nova Roma.

--
In amicitia et fide
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Consul, Civis et Poeta

Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

(sites subject to occasional updates)
http://www.facebook.com/p.ullerius.stfnus.venator
http://nrfb.korsoft.com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82681 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: Noon-Time offering on my entry into the Consulship
Salve et Salvete;

As my colleague stands at Noon in his home region, I will stand at 11
AM in mine so that our voices and intents shall be lifted at the same
time.

My writ shall be published thereafter.

Sleep well, a New Year has arrived and a new begining is upon us.

Vale et Valete - Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82682 From: Charlie Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath of Office as Tribunus Plebis
Oath of Office of Quintus Servilius Priscus

I, Quintus Servilius Priscus (Charles Collins) do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of
the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Quintus Servilius Priscus (Charles Collins)
swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to
pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Quintus Servilius Priscus (Charles Collins) swear to uphold and defend
the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act
in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Quintus Servilius Priscus (Charles Collins) swear to protect and defend
the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Quintus Servilius Priscus (Charles Collins) further swear to fulfill the
obligations and responsibilities of the office of Tribune to the best of my
abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of Tribune and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and
responsibilities attendant thereto.

Given by my hand on the Kalends of Ianuarius 2764 AVC in the consulships of
Ullerius Venator and Gaius Equitius Cato.




<http://www.cj-collins.com/>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82683 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> C. Petronius A. Scholasticae s.p.d.,
>
>>>> >>>ATS: Yes, there will be turnover in any organization. It is, however,
>>>> very sad when an honorable long-time member who has held every office is so
>>>> disgusted that he or she feels that it is necessary to leave.<<<
>
> CPD: I really thought that Nova Roma was more than an organization in the mind
> and the heart of Cn. Marinus.
>
> ATS2: I¹m sure it is, and was. I have met him on several occasions, and
> corresponded with him, especially when I was a wet-behind-the-ears new
> citizen. I was, however, responding to the post from yet another of my former
> students, Q. Suetonius Paulinus, who mentioned an organization in his frigid
> area, one devoted to the culture of a much warmer clime. It is a given that
> any group will have entries and departures, but as I said, they are more
> common among the newer members.
>
>
>
> I am very surprised and rather desappointed by his resignation.
>
> ATS2: Apparently some were aware of its imminence, and of that of
> Quintilianus. However, I, too, was surprised by both. We have lost many fine
> and long-time citizens this year, including several senators. Unfortunately
> those who are far less honorable and far less gentlemanly (inter alia) remain.
>
> The resignation of Cn. Marinus, a gentleman, is a sad news,
>
> ATS2: It is more than sad news. It is devastating. The worst among us
> must be making merry, for their strongest opponent has left, and a good many
> others have joined the rush to the exits. Pretty soon they won¹t have anyone
> left to fight, and would lose their favorite amusement: attacking the
> innocent and blameless while ignoring gaping holes in what passes for their
> moral framework. Anyone who has been here long enough has seen their methods;
> this year they have gained a new pal, who contributed some refinements worthy
> of The Prince.
>
>
> but, as I am optimist, I hope a
>
> happy new year 2764 to Nova Roma!
>
> ATS2: Utinam, sed principatus adest.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> Et tu valeas!
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> Kalendis Ianuariis P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82684 From: Vladimir Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath of Office of Aulus Vitellius Celsus
Oath of Office of Aulus Vitellius Celsus
I, Aulus Vitellius Celsus (Vladimir Popov) do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Aulus Vitellius Celsus (Vladimir Popov) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Aulus Vitellius Celsus (Vladimir Popov) swear to uphold and defend
the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Aulus Vitellius Celsus (Vladimir Popov) swear to protect and defend
the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Aulus Vitellius Celsus (Vladimir Popov) further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Curule Aedile to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Curule Aedile and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Given by my hand on the Kalends of Ianuarius 2764 AVC in the consulships of Ullerius Venator and Gaius Equitius Cato.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82685 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Cato Tulliae Scholasticae omnibusque in foro SPD
>
> Let us no more play the old saw of "hand-picked" candidates or a single "hive
> mentality" among those elected.
>
> ATS: Well, sometimes old saws cut quite well. If the candidates had NOT
> been hand-picked, there might have been some from other schools of political
> philosophy rather than all from the pharisees and publicans who worship money
> and power along with the dictates of corporate law, but refuse to acknowledge
> that their own behavior might require regulation. Among them there might not
> have been xenophobes who denigrate those who do not speak English (or at least
> those who hang out with them) as well as misogynists who think that no woman
> should have any power at all. Heck, there might have been some candidates who
> were not on the Back Alley...though possibly the BA¹s new pet is not an
> official member...yet.
>
> The new PTB represent different educational levels, occupations, ethnic
> backgrounds, and religions. Political philosophy is another matter. Let us
> know if you think that there should be a strict moderation edictum for what¹s
> left of the ML, or that Roman law is more important than corporate law, or if
> Latin will suddenly become the language required for all official
> correspondence and ML posts (that alone would likely keep problems to a very
> low level), or if you believe that all qualified candidates should be allowed
> to run for office without being drafted into a magistracy they cannot perform,
> but which they are not allowed to refuse. The draft board is more sensible.
>
> When the Goths approached the City, many wanted to abandon her and run for
> "safety"; the true Romans stayed and defended her and kept her spirit alive.
>
> ATS: And my ancestors didn¹t roll over in bed when a certain Mr. Revere
> (or a pal of his) came calling. I plan on sticking around, surrounded by vats
> of red ink. As for the departures, I think you won¹t find a truer Roman than
> Marinus, but when personal and / or family health issues intervene, or when
> enough is enough, good and true people leave.
>
> We are true Romans, and have to interest in despotism or imperial forms or any
> of that claptrap -
>
> ATS: Aw, Cato, you can admit that you want to fondle that shiny new
> imperium stick. Your predecessor seems to have been quite fond of the four he
> held...and probably still holds. Marinus held those four, but never abused
> them.
>
>
> unlike several of our predecessors. We are Republican Romans, held together
> by the law and mos maiorum and common sense.
>
> ATS: Republican Romans? Law? When convenient, and interpreted in the
> most nit-picking fashion possible. You guys have the makings of an oligarchy,
> not a republic.
>
> I swear by whatever Divinities are in heaven that my actions shall be
> transparent always, my desires clearly known and explained, and submitted to
> the People, from whom my authority derives its authenticity, for approval.
>
> ATS: And with another rigged election?
>
> May those same Powers grant peace and prosperity to our Respublica and all her
> citizens in this new decade.
>
> At least to the diminishing number who deserve either.
>
> Valete,
>
> Gaius Equitius Cato
> Consul
>
> My, my; already using a title, something we Americans tend to eschew.
>
> Valete.
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82686 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath of Office
Cn. Iulius Caesar Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit.

I, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar (Nigel Kell) do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar (Nigel Kell) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar (Nigel Kell) swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar (Nigel Kell) swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar (Nigel Kell) further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Praetor to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Praetor and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.


Ego, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar (Nigel Kell), hac re ipsa decus Novae Romae me defensurum, et semper pro populo senatuque Novae Romae acturum esse sollemniter iuro.

Ego, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar (Nigel Kell), officio praetoris Novae Romae accepto, deos deasque Romae in omnibus meae vitae publicae temporibus culturum, et virtutes Romanas publica privataque vita me persecuturum esse iuro.

Ego, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar (Nigel Kell), Religioni Romanae me fauturum et eam defensurum, et numquam contra eius statum publicum me acturum esse, ne quid detrimenti capiat iuro.

Ego, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar (Nigel Kell), praetoris officiis muneris me quam optime functurum esse praeterea iuro.

Meo civis Novae Romae honore, coram deis deabusque populi Romani, et voluntate favoreque eorum, ego munus praetoris una cum iuribus, privilegiis, muneribus et officiis comitantibus accipio.

Optime valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82687 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Praetorial edict: Appointment of scribes
Cn. Iulius Caesar praetor Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit.

Ex Officio Praetoris Nova Roma:

PRAETORIAL EDICT CnIC 64-01: APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBES

I hereby appoint, with immediate effect, the following citizens as scribes to the Officina Praetoris. No oath is required of them. Their duties will include, but not necessarily be limited to, moderation of the forum of the res publica (aka The Main List).

-----------
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Lucia Iulia Aquila
Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
Gaius Marcius Crispus
Gaius Popillius Laenas
Quintus Suetonius Paulinus
Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa
------------

Optime valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82688 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.

It is unfortunate that you see the necessity of sullying the very first day of a brand new decade with slur and innuendo. Yes, you're bitter about Albucius' actions. Got it. You'd rather have Fred Flintstone as consul instead of me. Got it. You think everyone elected in this past election is a mean-spirited, cruel, despot-in-training. Got it. You think the now-departed Marinus should be made a saint for putting up with us for so long. Got it.

Well, you can continue to sit on the sidelines, harping and moaning and casting all kinds of nasty remarks out willy-nilly - OR you can show yourself once more brilliantly useful to the Respublica and truly concerned with her future. No-one is forcing you to do or say anything. The choice is yours.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82689 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
In a message dated 1/1/2011 1:24:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
fororom@... writes:

> ATS2: Apparently some were aware of its imminence, and of that of
> Quintilianus. However, I, too, was surprised by both. We have lost many
fine
> and long-time citizens this year, including several senators.
Unfortunately
> those who are far less honorable and far less gentlemanly (inter alia)
remain.
Q. Fabius Maximus SPD
Salvete

Pardon me madam. You mis state the facts.

Every one who left Nova Roma did so to avoid the consequences of their
actions. After threatening members of the NR Board of Directors earlier this
year, a group of Senators, religious Sacerdotes and citizens attempted to
subvert the legal government of Nova Roma since it wasn't doing what they
wanted, expected or could achieve monetarily.

When the original members of Nova Roma blocked them after a desperate
struggle, of which many citizens were unaware, they realized when we the
victors would not say " Aw shucks we know you were only kidding..." and that
many had opened themselves to real and costly legislation in the real world
for their legal trespasses, they fled.

Their resignations are the equivalent of losers falling on their swords to
avoid proscription. And while that may be the cowardly way out consider
how many of us original Nova Romanoi had to deal, nay endure these
people, who insulted and intimidated those who did not agree with them or
their personal goals. Yet we stayed, we fought, we endured. We did not
leave.
Today the fact that many of the original members of Nova Roma are once
again active, and the Nova Roma which was set on the path by C. Fabius
Quintilianus where the cult of personality ruled Nova Roma has come to an end. It
was these personalities that prevent persons from running for offices,
silenced them through illegal use of laws, and intimidated them by threats.
That day is over, the Cult of Personality has fallen with Fabius
Quintilianus resignation and we will have again a Republic that will be ruled by law
and not whim.

As for honourable Romans madam, you are surrounded by them. Men and Women
who did not forsake their republic when threatened with ruin or worse and
persevered. If you do not wish to remain within their ranks and rather
fall on your sword, we will understand. In fact it is expected if you are a
Roman.

Valete


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82690 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: Noon-Time offering on my entry into the Consulship
Salvete Omnes;

In addenda, I shall follow the Augury of Vedius in this matter and
still Offer in conjunction with my colleague. This was a detail,
which slipped my mind as in my personal tradition, one Offers as one
senses the need and appropriateness of place and time.

Valete - Venator Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82691 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Text of my offering ritual...
Salve et Salvete Omnes;

As the text is about 3 1/2 pages, I uploaded it to Google documents,
with the permission set that anyone with the link can view it.

Here is the full length URL:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_wy9RTKlbwliJT2kRA-BPK8NaTF6kt6FkxvZ0V9PWq0/edit?hl=en&authkey=CPHDiugE#

In case that chops off:
http://tinyurl.com/2cul9do

I would take kindly to critiques.

As I have received no word to the contrary and the sun has broken
through the clouds a bit (shining in my east facing window), I go now
to offer words and gifts to Those Who Watch Over and Care For our
People, Senators, Magistrates and Sacerdotes.

--
In amicitia et fide
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Consul, Civis et Poeta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82692 From: Christer Edling Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: After ten years
Salve Amice!

I deeply appreciate your warm words. Rest assured that will stand by
You if You need my help and it is within my power and accordning to my
conscience.

There might be a day when we all unite again, but until then, if it
ever happens I wish You all the best and good health!

**********

1 jan 2011 kl. 03.24 skrev Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator:

Salve C Fabius Buteo Quintilianus;

This is a sad note.

However life turns for you, may Bona Fortuna follow you.

Thank you for your service.

Please, keep an eye cast in our direction. I am in hopes that the New
Year will bring needed and rational changes, which will improve Nova
Roma for all her Cives.

May your life be long, but the days never become a burden.

Optime Vale - Venator




*****************
Vale

Caeso Fabius Buteo Quintilianus

Civis Romanus sum
************************************************
Aut inveniam viam aut faciam
"I'll either find a way or make one"
************************************************
Dignitas, Iustitia, Fidelitas et Pietas
Dignity, Justice, Loyalty and Dutifulness
************************************************
Mons Palatinus, Clivus Victoriae
Palatine Hill, Incline of Victoriae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82693 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath Of Office: Curule Aedile Maior (English&Latin Trans.)
Sta. Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia Aedilis Curulis Maior-Elect Omnibus
in foro salutem plurimam dicit:

Ave, during this morning I have spent time in reflection and in prayer to
the deities of my personal faith the Aos Si, Thor, and Freya to give me
strength, courage, and to always do the right thing for the people of Nova
Roma.

In the official languages of our republic in both English & Latin do I
hereby take this Oath of Office.


I,Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia (K. Jennifer Harris ) do hereby
solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the
best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I,Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia
(K. Jennifer Harris) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my
public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private
life.

I, Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia (K. Jennifer Harris) swear to
uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and
swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State
Religion.

I, Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia (K. Jennifer Harris) swear to
protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia (K. Jennifer Harris) further
swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of
Praetor to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of Curule Aedile and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and
responsibilities attendant thereto.


Ego, Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia (K. Jennifer Harris ) hac re
ipsa decus Novae Romae me defensuram, et semper pro populo senatuque Novae
Romae acturam esse sollemniter IVRO.

Ego,Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia (K. Jennifer Harris) officio
Curulis Aedilis Novae Romae accepto, deos deasque Romae in omnibus meae
vitae publicae temporibus culturum, et virtutes Romanas publica privataque
vita me persecuturam esse IVRO.

Ego, Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia (K. Jennifer Harris)
Religioni Romanae me fauturam et eam defensuram, et numquam contra eius
statum publicum me acturam esse, ne quid detrimenti capiat IVRO.

Ego, Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia (K.Jennifer Harris) officiis
muneris Curulis Aedilis me quam optime functuram esse praeterea IVRO.

Meo civis Novae Romae honore, coram deis deabusque populi Romani, et
voluntate favoreque eorum, ego munus Curulis Aedilis una cum iuribus,
privilegiis, muneribus et officiis comitantibus ACCIPIO.

Given by my hand on the Kalends of Ianuarius 2764 AVC in the Consulships of
Publius Stephanus
Ullerius Venator and Gaius Equitius Cato.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82694 From: Sabinus Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Kalendae Ianuariae: Annum novum bonum faustum felicem!
SALVETE!

Hodie est Kalendae Ianuariae; natalis Vediovi; natalis Aesculapi; Streniae.

Annum Novum bonum faustum felicem!

L. Furius Purpureo vowed a temple for Vediovis while fighting the Battle of Cremona (200 BCE) during which he defeated the Carthaginians under Hamilcar and their Gallic allies. The temple was built on the River Tiber Island. It was then dedicated on 1 January 194 BCE.
Sources: Livy, History 31.21; 34.53; Fowler, W. W. (1899) "The Roman Festivals of the Period of the Roman Republic", London.

The feriae or "dies natalis" of Asculapius on 1 January designates the day on which a temple for this God of Healing was first dedicated in Rome in 460 AUC (293 BCE). Aesculapius was first called to Rome in response to an oracle that suggested He might aid against a plague.
"The year (293 BCE) had been a happy one in many ways, but this was hardly adequate consolation for the one major disaster: the plague that raged through town and countryside alike. The devastation it caused was thought to be an evil omen, and thus the Sibylline Oracles were consulted to find what limits or remedy the Gods proposed for it ravages. The Books revealed that Aesculapius must be summoned from Epidaurus to Rome; however because the consuls were busy engaged in a war, nothing was done about it that year except that one day was set aside for a supplicatio for the God."
The "numen," or presence of Aesculapius, arrived in the form of a large snake who had traveled with Rome's envoys back from Epidaurus .
"They brought with them a snake that had joined them in the ship and which no doubt was a manifestation of the God; from the ship, it went in the island in the River Tiber, to the place where the temple of Aesculapius has been erected."
His Temple was built in the form of the ship He had first arrived in. The Temple became a center for the introduction of Hippocratic medicine to Rome. Eventually it had a hospital attached to the Temple that mainly treated elderly slaves.
Sources: Livy, History 10.47.6; Livy, Perioche 11.3; Fowler, W. W. (1899) "The Roman Festivals of the Period of the Roman Republic," London.

Strenia is the Goddess of strength and endurance. Originally a Sabine Goddess, she had a temple on the Via Sacra.

This day, capite velato, I have invoked Iuno Covella on the 5th day by saying the traditional formula:

"Die Quinti te kalo Iuno Covella"

I offered incense and saying prayers I asked the Goddess to be favorable toward us the entire Nova Roman community.

The festivals to be celebrated in the month of Ianuarius shall be:

1 F Kal: Vediove, Aesculapio, Strenae (nundina).
2 F dies ater
3 C
4 C
5 F Vicae Poto/ Victoria.
6 F dies ater
7 C
8 C
9 NP Agonalia Iano (nundina)
10 C
11 NP Carmentalia Iuturnalia
12 C
13 NP Feriae Iovi
14 EN dies ater
15 NP Carmentalia
16 C Concordia
17 F (nundina)
18 C Compitalia
19 C
20 C
21 C
22 C
23 C
24 C Feriae Semantivae
25 F (nundina)
26 C
27 C Castoris
28 C
29 F
30 F (Ara Pacis Augustae)
31 C (Hecate)

At the end I poured a libation of honeyed milk thanking to the Goddess for Her benevolence.

VALETE,
Sabinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82695 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: On CFBQ and GEM 's resignations
Omnibus s.d.


I have been obliged to remain more silent than usual during these last days, for family reasons, and I just take knowledge of the resignations of Gn. Equitius Marinus and C. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus.


As many of us, I am sad of these decisions, but not necessarily for the same reasons.


I am sad first, on the form. Censorius Marinus' resignation is not worthy of the image he tried to give us all through these years. I have would have appreciated a few public words, and, personally, a few private ones. We missed both.


My former colleague Quintilianus leaves us with more dignity, with a dignified farewell letter. But here too, I would have like a few private words, once our term and the fights were over.


But I am not really surprised : both resignations seem having been �written�, and still present in the positions both men adopted from last Fall 2009/2762.


First - and I think it is more accurate for my former colleague - behind last year positions, and to the attempt to impose a dictatorship by a coup, stood a global idea of what a Roman organization like ours should be. This idea, Quintilianus has reminded it. It is a coherent and respectable one.


So, this is not the position itself which probably led Quintilianus or Marinus to this resignation, but the way both �played their hand� this year.


The first big error was committed in this Fall 2762, when your servant was not considered, still candidate for consul, as important enough to be informed on the details of the planned dictatorship for 2763 and that, when elected, he was required to �apply� a plan decided by other ones. The second error was not to play honestly the agreement between consuls which consisted in working on new by-laws for NR Inc. first, and second on fixing our IT problems, and to use this, in a second time, as a casus belli for imposing the dictatorship. The last error consisted in the several technical mistakes committed in launching last July coup : when one tries a putsch, one cannot commit such mistakes, or you are dead, politically or, in Ancient Rome, probably physically.


I have thought several times, during these last months, of the advices that gave me, in the recent years, several of those who have now resigned, about the necessity to think �politically� and that �everything is politics� in Nova Roma, while I was speaking of values and Law. I cecorded these advices, and, at the end of my consular term, cannot hide you that my conclusion are that the best theoreticians are not always the best generals on the battlefield...


I wonder whether my ex-friend Quintilianus, was not in fact, since 2762, already in the tracks that would lead him either to a global victory, or to a resignation, and that their were no average retreat position for him : aut Caesar, aut nihil...
As he told it himself, he reached the end of a cycle, and was a bit tired of a form of organization who left him unsatisfied. Has he played, with conscience or not, the wrong card when he could have played the good one ? I do not know. He is the one who may say it.


Our now resigning comrades had, thus, the choice. And they had it several times. They played, lowering the importance of a few parameters, and lost. Quintilianus' resignation is a logical step after this lost battle.


I am sad, also, for Marinus, who had also my sincere respect.
If he kept a marginal role until this summer, he seemed having adopted, all along this year and at the decisive moments, each time the wrong position : he chose first having a �sabbatical year�... and finally accepted to receive a dictatorship ; he chose not working actively on the by-laws, which led us to the first tensions of the Spring ; he chose accepting the dictatorship, for, finally, renouncing to it, while he could have, just consulting me before, be aware of the difficulties he would face.


Finally, our Marinus could have had, in case of victory of my former colleague's side, the second most important role in Nova Roma's history � after our Founders - but is now leaving the Republic through the tiniest window, not because he had bad intents, but because he was blind, accepted to serve �friends� ' interests, and committed one single error : to think that he could be a dictator against the will of the consul maior.
This is not reasonable, for it is a big waste of energy and skills, at individual or global level.




Both men have, naturally, my best and sincere greetings for their projects.


Then, the fact such senior citizens may resign, must bring us considering one obvious reality : even we are strongly living our community as a Republic, a Nation, or the continuation of Ancient Rome, every one may leave it. Apart escaping Roman territorial imperium, it was hard, two milleniums ago, to break the links with Rome. And a Roman citizen kept her/his citizenship, apart exceptions.


So let us not forget that if �we are Romans�, we nevertheless live our romanity inside a non-profit-making corporation framework, and go on seeing how we may improve this last frame in order to avoid such future resignations, and that former members may consider that other organizations could be better places to leave this romanitas.


Valete omnes,


P. Memmius Albucius
former consul

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82696 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath as Rex Sacrorum
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.


After receiving favorable auspicies, and making offerings to Iuno, Ianus,
and Iuppiter I take the following oath:


I, Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus *(David Oliver Kling)* do hereby solemnly
swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As Rex Sacrorum of Nova Roma, I, Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus *(David Oliver
Kling)* swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings,
and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, *Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus (David Oliver Kling)* swear to uphold and
defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never
to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, *Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus (David Oliver Kling)* swear to protect and
defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, *Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus (David Oliver Kling)* further swear to
fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of *Rex Sacrorum* to
the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of Rex Sacrorum and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and
responsibilities attendant thereto.
Given by my hand on the Kalends of Ianuarius 2764 AVC in the consulships of
Ullerius Venator and Gaius Equitius Cato.

Valete;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82697 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: FIRST REX SACRORUM of NR ENTERS OFFICE TODAY
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Pontifex: K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano Regi Sacrorum: Quiritibus: SPD.


HAIL TO THE FIRST REX SACRORUM,
SACRIFICIAL KING OF THE NOVA ROMAN REPUBLIC,
K. FABIUS BUTEO MODIANUS!

I announce you glad news Quirites!

As of today, K. Buteo Modianus, the first Rex Sacrorum (Sacrificial King) of our Republic enters office!

From today, we have a Rex Sacrorum! We are one BIG step closer to the restoration of the Pax Deorum Romana!

Let's congratulate to our first Rex Sacrorum, K. Buteo Modianus!

Hail to the first Rex Sacrorum of Nova Roma!

All the Gods and Janus especially bless him and his sacred activities for our Republic!



Felicem Annum Novum!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82698 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath of Office: Praetor
Salvete,

I, M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus (Walter M. Shandruk) do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus (Walter M. Shandruk) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus (Walter M. Shandruk) swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus (Walter M. Shandruk) swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus (Walter M. Shandruk) further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Praetor to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Praetor and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

-----

Ego, M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus (Walter M. Shandruk), hac re ipsa decus Novae Romae me defensurum, et semper pro populo senatuque Novae Romae acturum esse sollemniter iuro.

Ego, M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus (Walter M. Shandruk), officio praetoris Novae Romae accepto, deos deasque Romae in omnibus meae vitae publicae temporibus culturum, et virtutes Romanas publica privataque vita me persecuturum esse iuro.

Ego, M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus (Walter M. Shandruk), Religioni Romanae me fauturum et eam defensurum, et numquam contra eius statum publicum me acturum esse, ne quid detrimenti capiat iuro.

Ego, M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus (Walter M. Shandruk), praetoris officiis muneris me quam optime functurum esse praeterea iuro.

Meo civis Novae Romae honore, coram deis deabusque populi Romani, et voluntate favoreque eorum, ego munus praetoris una cum iuribus, privilegiis, muneribus et officiis comitantibus accipio.

Valete,

M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82699 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit

Congratulations one your new status as consul.

Regarding Scholastica, as a former censor I can say that she has been an
important person in naming issues pertaining to new citizens. She has
contributed her skills to Nova Roma, and after she was denied the
opportunity to run for office and yet still remains is a tribute to her
sense of fortitude. She presented no "threat" of lawsuit. She is bitter,
but I suspect you would have been bitter as well if it had happened to you.

Vale;

Modianus

On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

>
>
> Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.
>
> It is unfortunate that you see the necessity of sullying the very first day
> of a brand new decade with slur and innuendo. Yes, you're bitter about
> Albucius' actions. Got it. You'd rather have Fred Flintstone as consul
> instead of me. Got it. You think everyone elected in this past election is a
> mean-spirited, cruel, despot-in-training. Got it. You think the now-departed
> Marinus should be made a saint for putting up with us for so long. Got it.
>
> Well, you can continue to sit on the sidelines, harping and moaning and
> casting all kinds of nasty remarks out willy-nilly - OR you can show
> yourself once more brilliantly useful to the Respublica and truly concerned
> with her future. No-one is forcing you to do or say anything. The choice is
> yours.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82700 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: Oath as Rex Sacrorum
Salve Rex Sacrorum,

Having taking this oath, which was not mandatory for you, emphasizes your will placing your action in the consensual role you intended to play in these last months of 2763.

You have my whole support in your office, Modiane.

Vale,


P. Memmius Albucius
censor



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> wrote:
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus S.P.D.
>
>
> After receiving favorable auspicies, and making offerings to Iuno, Ianus,
> and Iuppiter I take the following oath:
>
>
> I, Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus *(David Oliver Kling)* do hereby solemnly
> swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
> interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.
>
> As Rex Sacrorum of Nova Roma, I, Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus *(David Oliver
> Kling)* swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings,
> and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.
>
> I, *Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus (David Oliver Kling)* swear to uphold and
> defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never
> to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.
>
> I, *Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus (David Oliver Kling)* swear to protect and
> defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.
>
> I, *Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus (David Oliver Kling)* further swear to
> fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of *Rex Sacrorum* to
> the best of my abilities.
>
> On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
> Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
> position of Rex Sacrorum and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and
> responsibilities attendant thereto.
> Given by my hand on the Kalends of Ianuarius 2764 AVC in the consulships of
> Ullerius Venator and Gaius Equitius Cato.
>
> Valete;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82701 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: New Year's Ritual to Father Janus
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus pontifex consulibus, praetoribus, tribunis plebis et omnibus Quiritibus s. p. d.

+ + + BONUM FAUSTUM FELICEM FORTUNATUM ANNUM NOVUM MMDCCLXIV + + +

Happy, prosperous, propitious and blessed New Year! The Kalends of Januray, the holiday of Father Ianus, is celebrated today. The celebration of the Beginning of the Beginnings. May Father Ianus bless you all.

You will find a ritual to Father Ianus I as pontifex have today conducted before a home altar. This ritual prays for the new Rex Sacrorum and for the new magistrates, and for all the citizens. In my next message you will find a shorter version, too, for every Nova Roman citizen: you can use that prayer at your lararium during the following days.

FESTIVE RITUALS AND SACRIFICES

I send you two rituals, but here below you'll find one ritual. One of the two rituals is that I've conducted as a pontifex; you, too, can use this one if you are another pontifex or flamen or higher magistrate. But I've created another, shorter and simpler one, for ordinary citizens of Nova Roma. I wish as many of you as possible use that in your regular daily lararium prayers in January.

SACRIFICE TO FATHER IANUS FOR THE KALENDS OF JANUARY, BEGINNING OF 2764 AUC, THE CONSULATE OF P. ULLERIUS AND C. EQUITIUS

Favete linguis!

(Beginning of the sacrifice.)

PRAEFATIO

Iane pater, deus novi initii,
te hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitius
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
mihi, domo, familiae!

(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)

Iane pater, deus novi initii,
uti te ture commovendo
bonas preces precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio esto!

(Libation of wine is made.)

PRECATIO

Iane pater, deus novi initii,
custos futuri et praeteriti temporis sanctissime,
his Kalendis Ianuariis anni novi nunc incepti
te precor, veneror, detestorque quaesoque:
uti laetitiam fortunamque,
omnes eventus bonos fautosque,
fortunatos felicissimosque,
pacem concordiamque constantem
societati Novae Romae tribuas;
utique Rem Publicam Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
confirmes, augeas, adiuves,
omnibusque inceptibus conatibusque Populi Novi Romani Quiritium faveas,
utique sies volens propitius Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
regi sacrorum novo K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano,
consulibus novis P. Ullerio Stephano Venatori et C. Equitio Catoni,
praetoribus novis Cn. Iulio Caesari et M. Cornelio Gualtero Graeco,
omnibus magistratibus et senatui et collegio pontificum,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulieribus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!

SACRIFICIUM

Quarum rerum ergo macte
hoc libo libando,
hoc vino libando,
hoc ture ommovendo
esto fito volens propitius
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
regi sacrorum novo K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano,
consulibus novis P. Ullerio Stephano Venatori et C. Equitio Catoni,
praetoribus novis Cn. Iulio Caesari et M. Cornelio Gualtero Graeco,
omnibus magistratibus et senatui et collegio pontificum,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulierbus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!

(Libum is sacrificed, libation is made and incense is sacrificed.)

REDDITIO

Iane pater, deus novi initii,
uti te ture commovendo
et vino libando,
et libo libando,
bonas preces precatus sum,
earundem rerum ergo
macte vino inferio esto!

(Libation of wine is made)

Ilicet!

(End of the sacrifice.)

PIACULUM

Iane,
Iuppiter Optime Maxmime, Iuno, Minerva,
Omnes Di Immortales quocumque nomine:
si quidquam vobis in hac caerimonia displicuit,
hoc vino inferio
veniam peto
et vitium meum expio.

(Libation of wine is made.)

+ + + BONUM FAUSTUM FELICEM FORTUNATUM ANNUM NOVUM MMDCCLXIV + + +
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82702 From: Gaia Valeria Pulchra Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath of Office of the Plebeian Aedile
Salvete omnes!

I, *Gaia Valeria Pulchra* do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of
Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the
Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, *Gaia Valeria Pulchra* swear to honor the
Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman
Virtues in my public and private life.

I, *Gaia Valeria Pulchra *swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as
the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would
threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, *Gaia Valeria Pulchra* swear to protect and defend the Constitution of
Nova Roma.

I, *Gaia Valeria Pulchra* further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of *Plebeian Aedile* to the best of my
abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of Plebeian Aedile and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and
responsibilities attendant thereto.


Gratias vobis ago!


All hail the King of the Guinea Pigs!!!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82703 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: Oath as Rex Sacrorum
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus P. Memmio Albucio salutem dicit

Thank you for your support. I am hoping this year will be an auspicious
year for Nova Roma.

Vale;

Caeso Buteo

On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 5:16 PM, publiusalbucius <albucius_aoe@...>wrote:

>
>
> Salve Rex Sacrorum,
>
> Having taking this oath, which was not mandatory for you, emphasizes your
> will placing your action in the consensual role you intended to play in
> these last months of 2763.
>
> You have my whole support in your office, Modiane.
>
> Vale,
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> censor
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82704 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Your Personal New Year's Ritual
Cn. Lentulus pontifex amicis et Quiritibus sal.

Bonum felicem faustum fortunatum annum novum MMDCCLXIV!

I wish all Nova Romans a very happy and propitious and blessed New Year, the 2764th year of the City!

You
will find your ritual to Father Ianus, and to other gods you want to
invoke, in this message. It is written for every Nova Roman citizen:
you can use this prayer at your lararium on the 1st of January and
during the days until the Ides of January, for praying a happy,
successful and propitious New Year of your family and Nova Roma.

This
prayer here is a short and simple one, for ordinary citizens of Nova
Roma. I wish as many of you as possible use this in your prayers
tomorrow, and on the first days of January.

After each Latin
section there is an English translation. Please feel free to correct
publicly my English, and then we will find together solutions to have a
religious and sacral Roman English text.

Roman prayers were
generally rhythmical, composed as verse of the rhythm of thoughts,
repetitions, alliterations, the number of words and accents.

This is how my prayers are composed, and I tried to make the English one so that it recall the Latin verses.

USING THE NEW YEAR PRAYER

To use this prayer, you might consult the following articles about rites on our website:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Guide_to_Sacrifice
http://novaroma.org/nr/Adoratio
http://novaroma.org/nr/Daily_Rituals_(Nova_Roma)

After
the words for Ianus, there is "blank text" for other deities you choose
to worship. Please fill the empty place with the name of the deity you
want, and fix the word "propitius" (male) or "propitia" (female)
according to the gender of the deity you invoke. It is STRONGLY
recommended to invoke your patron deities and those deities you
especially need in the New Year. Each of them must have a new
invocation for each section of the entire prayer. I suggest the
following gods and goddesses:

- Concordia
- Iuppiter Optimus Maximus (in vocative: Optime Maxime)
- Fortuna

YOUR TRANSLATED NEW YEAR RITUAL

PRAEFATIO - PREFACE TO THE PRAYER

"Iane pater, deus novi initii,
te hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sis volens propitius
Novis Romanis, amicis meis,
mihi, domo, familiae!"

Father Ianus, God of the New Beginning,
by offering you this incense
I pray good prayers so
that you be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Romans, to my friends,
to me, to my household and to my family.

(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)

"__________( name of another deity in vocative),
te hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sis volens propitius/propitia
Novis Romanis, amicis meis,
mihi, domo, familiae!!"

____________ (name of another deity),
by offering you this incense
I pray good prayers so
that you be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Romans, to my friends,
to me, to my household and to my family.

(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)

"Iane pater, deus novi initii,
uti te ture commovendo
bonas preces precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio esto!"

Father Ianus, God of the New Beginning,
as by offering incense
I have prayed good prayers,
for the very same reason
be thou blessed by this wine.

(Libation of wine is made.)

"__________( name of another deity in vocative),
uti te ture commovendo
bonas preces precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio esto!"

____________ (name of another deity),
as by offering incense
I have prayed good prayers,
for the very same reason
be thou blessed by this wine.

(Libation of wine is made.)

PRECATIO - THE PRAYER

"Iane pater, deus novi initii,
custos futuri et praeteriti temporis sanctissime,
his Kalendis Ianuariis anni novi nunc incepti
te precor, quaesoque:
uti laetitiam fortunamque,
omnes eventus bonos fautosque,
fortunatos felicissimosque,
pacem concordiamque
societati Novae Romae
familiaeque meae tribuas;
utique sis volens propitius
Novis Romanis, amicis meis,
mihi, domo, familiae!"

Father Ianus, God of the New Beginning,
Most Sacred Guardian of the future and past,
on this first day of the New Year, Kalends of January,
I pray and ask you so
that you give gladness and fortune,
a good and prosperous,
successful and most happy progress of events,
peace and concord
to the society of Nova Roma
and to my own family;
and that you be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Romans, to my friends,
to me, to my household and to my family.

SACRIFICIUM - THE SACRIFICE

"Cuius rei ergo macte
hoc vino libando,
hoc ture ommovendo
esto fito volens propitius
Novis Romanis, amicis meis,
mihi, domo, familiae!"

For this reason, thou blessed
by offering this wine,
by offering this incense
be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Romans, to my friends,
to me, to my household and to my family.

(Libation is made and incense is sacrificed.)

PIACULUM - THE EXPIATION OF MISTAKES DURING THE RITUAL

"Iane pater, deus novi initii,
"__________( names of all other deities invoked in vocative),
Lares, Manes, Penates,
Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva,
Omnes Di Immortales quocumque nomine:
si quidquam vobis in hac caerimonia displiceat,
hoc vino inferio
veniam peto
et vitium meum expio."

Father Ianus, God of the New Beginning,
"__________( names of all other deities invoked),
Lares, Manes, Penates,
Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva,
All Gods Immortal, by whichever name:
if something in this ceremony was unpleasant to you,
by this wine
I do apogize
and expiate my mistake.

(Libation of wine is made.)

I
wish my fellow citizens a very happy and blessed New Year, full of
peace and gladness. May Father Ianus bless you all, together with all
the gods and goddesses of the Roman people.

BONUM FELICEM FAUSTUM FORTUNATUM ANNUM NOVUM MMDCCLXIV !!!!


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
P O N T I F E X
SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
------------------------------------------
Legatus Pro Praetore Provinciae Pannoniae
Sacerdos Provinciae Pannoniae






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82705 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: After every Kalends, Nones, Ides, the next day is "Ater", 1/2/2011,
Reminder from:   Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
 
Title:   After every Kalends, Nones, Ides, the next day is "Ater"
 
Date:   Sunday January 2, 2011
Time:   All Day
Repeats:   This event repeats every month.
Notes:   Ater (unlucky)
*Gods or Goddesses should not be invoked by name while indoors, and no celestial God or Goddess should be invoked by name while outdoors.
*Sacrifices should not be made.
*These days are ill-omened to begin any new project since any new project would necessarily begin by performing a rite calling for the assistance of the gods. Such religious rites, beginning something new, are not to be performed.
*Avoid making journeys, or doing anything risky.
NOTA BENE: Normal work would still be performed on dies atri, and as part of performing any work one performs rites for the patron deities, geni locii, and other appropriate deities. Likewise, the daily routine is also performed before the lararium
 
Copyright © 2011  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82706 From: C.Maria Caeca Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: new year's prayer and offering to Dea Vesta
Omnibus in foro S. P. D.



Prayer to Vesta



Salutatio: I greet you, Mother Vesta, and humbly invite you into my home and
into my heart, that my altar might be filled with your great and wonderful
presence, your glory, and your ever enduring strength.



Invocatio:

Great Vesta, your eternal flame guards and gives life to the Res Publica.
Your light safeguards us from the darkness of chaos: the warmth of your
sacred flame protects us from the icy chill of fear: hear me, beloved
mother: keep our Republic safe from all dangers from without and from
within. Protect all her Magistrates', Pontifices, priests and citizens,
their families, homes, and all that they hold dear. Safeguard our new
Magistrates, that the ways they travel may be filled with your light, and
they may always feel the warmth of your care. Prosper them in their
offices, for you, in your steadiness and faithfulness, provide a source of
strength for those who must make careful and difficult choices. Protect
me, great mother, my home, my family and all that I hold dear.



Sacrificio:

Vesta, with this incense, which I offer to you on behalf of all Novi Romani,
I pray good prayers. Hear me, Great Mother, for we would gather in the
warmth of your sacred fire, and live peaceably in the light of it's holy
flame. You who have always cared for and protected Rome, care for and
protect her daughter, Nova Roma, that we may flourish and in so doing, honor
you. Accept this gift of incense that I offer, and accept, too, the service
offered reverently and joyously by this, your most humble priest. To you I
give my mind, that I may serve you with intelligence and wisdom. To you, I
give my voice, that I may speak of you with eloquence and beauty. To you,
beloved Vesta, I give my heart, that I may always find my home in the light
of your presence, and, in so doing, reflect in some small way, your enduring
goodness and be a blessing to those I serve. To you, I give my hands that
they may serve you in any way.



Peaculum:



Great Vesta, if I have done or said anything that is incorrect, or
displeasing to you, I apologize, and beseech your kind forgiveness. If we,
the Quirites of nova Roma have done anything to offend or displease you, I
offer you this incense, in token of the desire of all Novi Romani to be
forgiven our offenses, and to renew our bond with you, that we may shelter,
always, in the light and warmth of your eternal flame.



Father Janus, I invoke you, and offer you this incense in gratitude for your
past blessings, and in the hope that you will continue to guard our gates,
and look kindly upon the Quirites of Nova Roma.



Perlitatio:



No more, Great mother, do I ask of you today; it is enough, and I give
gratitude to you, and rededicate myself to your service.



Note: I do not have the skill in Latin to translate this, so, until I am
able to accomplish such things with something approaching competence, if any
of our Latinists wish to provide a translation, I would be most obliged.



Valete,

C. Maria Caeca, Sacerdos Vestae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82707 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Oath of Office - Custos
Salvete,

I, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (Robert Woolwine) do hereby solemnly swear
to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of
the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (Robert
Woolwine) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public
dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (Robert Woolwine) swear to uphold and defend
the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act
in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (Robert Woolwine) swear to protect and
defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix (Robert Woolwine) further swear to fulfill
the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Custos to the best of
my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of Custos and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and
responsibilities attendant thereto.


Valete,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix/Robert Woolwine


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82708 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: new year's prayer and offering to Dea Vesta
Aeternia Sacerdos Vestae C. Mariae Caecae S.P.D.



Wow. I found this to be truly beautiful. The imagery and the flow of your
words were incredible.

Thank you Caeca for always thinking of us all.


Vale quam Optime,
Aeternia

On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 4:51 PM, C.Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...>wrote:

>
>
> Omnibus in foro S. P. D.
>
> Prayer to Vesta
>
> Salutatio: I greet you, Mother Vesta, and humbly invite you into my home
> and
> into my heart, that my altar might be filled with your great and wonderful
> presence, your glory, and your ever enduring strength.
>
> Invocatio:
>
> Great Vesta, your eternal flame guards and gives life to the Res Publica.
> Your light safeguards us from the darkness of chaos: the warmth of your
> sacred flame protects us from the icy chill of fear: hear me, beloved
> mother: keep our Republic safe from all dangers from without and from
> within. Protect all her Magistrates', Pontifices, priests and citizens,
> their families, homes, and all that they hold dear. Safeguard our new
> Magistrates, that the ways they travel may be filled with your light, and
> they may always feel the warmth of your care. Prosper them in their
> offices, for you, in your steadiness and faithfulness, provide a source of
> strength for those who must make careful and difficult choices. Protect
> me, great mother, my home, my family and all that I hold dear.
>
> Sacrificio:
>
> Vesta, with this incense, which I offer to you on behalf of all Novi
> Romani,
> I pray good prayers. Hear me, Great Mother, for we would gather in the
> warmth of your sacred fire, and live peaceably in the light of it's holy
> flame. You who have always cared for and protected Rome, care for and
> protect her daughter, Nova Roma, that we may flourish and in so doing,
> honor
> you. Accept this gift of incense that I offer, and accept, too, the service
>
> offered reverently and joyously by this, your most humble priest. To you I
> give my mind, that I may serve you with intelligence and wisdom. To you, I
> give my voice, that I may speak of you with eloquence and beauty. To you,
> beloved Vesta, I give my heart, that I may always find my home in the light
>
> of your presence, and, in so doing, reflect in some small way, your
> enduring
> goodness and be a blessing to those I serve. To you, I give my hands that
> they may serve you in any way.
>
> Peaculum:
>
> Great Vesta, if I have done or said anything that is incorrect, or
> displeasing to you, I apologize, and beseech your kind forgiveness. If we,
> the Quirites of nova Roma have done anything to offend or displease you, I
> offer you this incense, in token of the desire of all Novi Romani to be
> forgiven our offenses, and to renew our bond with you, that we may shelter,
>
> always, in the light and warmth of your eternal flame.
>
> Father Janus, I invoke you, and offer you this incense in gratitude for
> your
> past blessings, and in the hope that you will continue to guard our gates,
> and look kindly upon the Quirites of Nova Roma.
>
> Perlitatio:
>
> No more, Great mother, do I ask of you today; it is enough, and I give
> gratitude to you, and rededicate myself to your service.
>
> Note: I do not have the skill in Latin to translate this, so, until I am
> able to accomplish such things with something approaching competence, if
> any
> of our Latinists wish to provide a translation, I would be most obliged.
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Maria Caeca, Sacerdos Vestae
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82709 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-01-01
Subject: Re: After every Kalends, Nones, Ides, the next day is "Ater", 1/2/20
C. Petronius omnibus Quiritibus s.p.d.,

I do not know who wrote this:
> NOTA BENE: Likewise, the daily routine is also performed before the lararium.

But it is absolutely wrong. On dies atri it is not allowed to sacrifice at the lararium.

We have this prohibition in Aulus Gellius Noctes Atticae 5,17,2.
"pontifices decreverunt nullum his diebus sacrificium recte futurum." In T. Livy 6,1,12: "quidam... etiam postridie Idus rebus divinis supersederi iussum, ut postridie Kalendas quoque ac Nonas eadem religio esset, traditum putant." In Macrobius Saturnalia 1,16,25: "Fabius Maximus Servilianus pontifex in libro duodecimo negat oportere atro die parentare, quia tunc quoque ianum Iovemque praefari necesse est."
In Latin *parentare* means to make prayers at the lararium.

I beg the author of this automatic message to correct it, its Nota Bene is not correct.

Today, Jan.2 is a dies ater and the daily sacrifice at the lararium is not allowed.

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
Pontifex Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. IV Nonas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82710 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: After every Kalends, Nones, Ides, the next day is "Ater", 1/2/20
Caesar Dextro sal.

I believe it was Maior's entry. At your request I have edited the calendar and removed that line and inserted this:

"*Sacrifices should not be made, even at the lararium."

Optime vale


--- On Sat, 1/1/11, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:

> From: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: After every Kalends, Nones, Ides, the next day is "Ater", 1/2/2011, 12:00 am
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Saturday, January 1, 2011, 9:52 PM
> C. Petronius omnibus Quiritibus
> s.p.d.,
>
> I do not know who wrote this:
> > NOTA BENE: Likewise, the daily routine is also
> performed before the lararium.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82711 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
C. Petronius A. Scholasticae s.p.d.,

> ATS2: Apparently some were aware of its imminence, and of that of
> Quintilianus. However, I, too, was surprised by both. We have lost many fine
> and long-time citizens this year, including several senators. Unfortunately
> those who are far less honorable and far less gentlemanly (inter alia) remain.

CPD: The resignation is not a proof of wisdom, mostly if we resign from something in building. Nova Roma is not a club, it is a micronation with a prism of opinions. Some wanted reduce Nova Roma to their own, they were wrong. So they leave and as says Quintilianus he goes away to found another Nova Roma... but it is stupid, Nova Roma is one and indivisible. Nova Roma is here.

> ATS2: It is more than sad news. It is devastating.

CPD: I think it will be more devastating for himself than for Nova Roma. If he counts to join the ersatz Nova Roma of Quintilianus and Piscinus, I bet that he will come back sooner here. And I will be happy to have him back citizen of the true Nova Roma.

> ATS2: Utinam, sed principatus adest.

CPD: Principatus cuius principis?

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. IV Nonas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82712 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> C. Petronius A. Scholasticae s.p.d.,
>
>> > ATS2: Apparently some were aware of its imminence, and of that of
>> > Quintilianus. However, I, too, was surprised by both. We have lost many
>> fine
>> > and long-time citizens this year, including several senators. Unfortunately
>> > those who are far less honorable and far less gentlemanly (inter alia)
>> remain.
>
> CPD: The resignation is not a proof of wisdom, mostly if we resign from
> something in building. Nova Roma is not a club, it is a micronation with a
> prism of opinions.
>
>
> ATS3: I think we abandoned that term micronation some time ago as it had
> acquired some unsavory connotations.
>
> Some wanted reduce Nova Roma to their own, they were wrong.
>
> ATS3: And the chief ones who are engaged in that are either on the BA or
> allied with those who are.
>
>
> So they leave and as says Quintilianus he goes away to found another Nova
> Roma... but it is stupid, Nova Roma is one and indivisible. Nova Roma is here.
>
> ATS3: True; it is here. But Cassius founded Novum Byzantium, and many
> seem to have followed him there.
>
>> > ATS2: It is more than sad news. It is devastating.
>
> CPD: I think it will be more devastating for himself than for Nova Roma. If he
> counts to join the ersatz Nova Roma of Quintilianus and Piscinus, I bet that
> he will come back sooner here.
>
> ATS3: I don¹t think he has any such interests. Moreover, it seems that
> Quintilianus wants his group to be all-European; we Americans apparently are
> personae non gratae. Maybe non-cultores are as well.
>
>
> And I will be happy to have him back citizen of the true Nova Roma.
>
> ATS3: And so would several of us, but from what I have heard, he has very
> different reasons for leaving, and that, too, at least one I would not have
> suspected at all. We are not inside his head, and cannot know exactly what
> motivated him to leave, but what Team BA seems to believe led him to leave is
> not likely to be among his reasons for so doing.
>
>> > ATS2: Utinam, sed principatus adest.
>
> CPD: Principatus cuius principis?
>
> ATS3: Nescisne?
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. IV Nonas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
> Vale, et valete.
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82713 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano C. Equitio Catoni Q. Fabio
> Maximo quiritibus S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Catoni salutem dicit
>
> Congratulations one your new status as consul.
>
> Regarding Scholastica, as a former censor I can say that she has been an
> important person in naming issues pertaining to new citizens. She has
> contributed her skills to Nova Roma, and after she was denied the
> opportunity to run for office and yet still remains is a tribute to her
> sense of fortitude.
>
> ATS: Thank you for your kind words. As you, Modiane, may be aware, the
> denial of my candidacy, and its pretext (that of holding another magistracy,
> and that, too, an involuntary one whose duties I could not [and did not]
> perform, and which I therefore refused), were almost certainly intended so
> that I would be unable to run for office. While the former consul likely was
> within his rights to appoint anyone he chose, it was at the very least unwise
> to do so during the period scheduled for candidacy announcements, and to do so
> without asking the prospective appointees whether or not they were able and
> willing to perform said duties. Rejecting my refusal of this office went
> beyond the pale. An honorable person would have accepted my refusal to accept
> this unwanted office. Others were excused, but I was not. Of course, I was
> the only one running for office...draw your own conclusions.
>
> As for holding two magistracies simultaneously (in violation of the law),
> I might point out that our immediate past plebeian aedile was allowed to run
> for tribune, and was elected to that office, therefore held both the aedilitas
> plebeia and the tribunate simultaneously until the end of her term as aedile.
> Things that cause great outcries when attributable to those who have some
> association with one particular faction provoke no such outbursts when the
> same occurs, but resides with members of the other one. If you¹re a member of
> Team BA, formerly known as the Boni, you get a free pass; if not, you get
> abused.
>
>
>
>
> She presented no "threat" of lawsuit. She is bitter,
>
> ATS: No, I¹m not. I don¹t harbor such emotions. I am perhaps surprised
> that a former friend was so intransigent, perhaps so hostile to me and for no
> apparent reason, but not bitter.
>
>
> but I suspect you would have been bitter as well if it had happened to you.
>
> ATS: I suspect that you would be right. I also would have thought that
> Cato might have preferred to win in an election rather than a coronation, that
> is, an election in which his success was not guaranteed because there were
> more candidates than positions, but hey, that¹s just me.
>
> More below in response to Cato, then to QFM.
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Sat, Jan 1, 2011 at 8:11 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...
> <mailto:catoinnyc%40gmail.com> > wrote:
>
>> >
>> >
>> > Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.
>> >
>> > It is unfortunate that you see the necessity of sullying the very first day
>> > of a brand new decade with slur and innuendo.
>
> ATS: My post was begun on the previous day, but in any case, New Year¹s
> is no big deal. It¹s the day one gets out a new calendar and has to remember
> to write a new date in one¹s checkbook. The new magistrates begin their terms
> under a cloud anyway; the elections were that only in name, not fact. That is
> particularly true in regard to the consulate; this is the first time I can
> recall that a fully-qualified candidate was not allowed to run for any office
> whatsoever, and that, too, on specious grounds. Truth may be painful, but if
> it sullies one, well...
>
>
> Yes, you're bitter about
>> > Albucius' actions. Got it.
>
> ATS: As above, I¹m not bitter. Albucius wronged me, and the citizenry,
> including you and Venator. His post earlier today demonstrates a
> misunderstanding of several events and persons; probably he has been hanging
> out with the wrong crowd for too long.
>
>
> You'd rather have Fred Flintstone as consul
>> > instead of me. Got it.
>
> ATS: Nonsense.
>
>
> You think everyone elected in this past election is a
>> > mean-spirited, cruel, despot-in-training. Got it.
>
> ATS: More nonsense. I do think that most, if not all, who were elected
> honor the nit-picking details of corporate law more than they do those of NR
> (or of antiquity). I do think that several do not understand that certain
> behavior, certain topics, and certain vocabulary are unsuitable for the ML, or
> elsewhere in public. I do think that some worship power and / or money, and
> that some deem women inferior and languages other than English beneath their
> dignity.
>
> You think the now-departed
>> > Marinus should be made a saint for putting up with us for so long. Got it.
>
> ATS: Marinus had his own reasons for leaving, and you are not privy to
> them. Neither is Fabius, who has his own take on that and other matters.
>> >
>> > Well, you can continue to sit on the sidelines, harping and moaning and
>> > casting all kinds of nasty remarks out willy-nilly -
>
>
> ATS: Oh, Cato, I am not harping and moaning, or casting nasty remarks
> willy-nilly. Maybe you don¹t like what I said, however; perhaps it came too
> close to the mark.
>
>
> OR you can show
>> > yourself once more brilliantly useful to the Respublica and truly concerned
>> > with her future.
>
> ATS: I am continuing to be quite useful to the quondam Res Publica Novae
> Romae. I am also concerned about her future, if for no better reason than
> that her immediate future seems to lie at least in part in the hands of
> certain allies of those who delight in vicious assaults against those whose
> take on various topics is different from their own, who are prone to
> misinterpreting the words and motives of others, and who appear to have less
> than honorable reasons for their pursuit of office and officeholders.
>
>
> No-one is forcing you to do or say anything. The choice is
>> > yours.
>
> ATS: And no one is forcing you to say anything, or to misinterpret my
> motives, those of Marinus, or those of Quintilianus.
>
> Will try to paste Fabius¹ message and add responses below.
>
> =====
>
>
> In a message dated 1/1/2011 1:24:19 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> fororom@... writes:
>
>> > ATS2: Apparently some were aware of its imminence, and of that of
>> > Quintilianus. However, I, too, was surprised by both. We have lost many
> fine
>> > and long-time citizens this year, including several senators.
> Unfortunately
>> > those who are far less honorable and far less gentlemanly (inter alia)
> remain.
> Q. Fabius Maximus SPD
> Salvete
>
> Pardon me madam. You mis state the facts.
>
> Every one who left Nova Roma did so to avoid the consequences of their
> actions.
>
> ATS: What makes you say that? Do you read minds? I know that there were
> other factors involved with one of these resignations, and just possibly some
> of the stated ones applied to the other. How, too, do you know about every
> single resignation from NR? Maybe Sabinus and Modianus do, but then that is
> part of their job.
>
>
> After threatening members of the NR Board of Directors earlier this
> year, a group of Senators, religious Sacerdotes and citizens attempted to
> subvert the legal government of Nova Roma since it wasn't doing what they
> wanted, expected or could achieve monetarily.
>
> ATS: Really? I saw no threats, but seem to recall that the government
> was totally paralyzed. A legal means of breaking that logjam might have
> appeared to have been a good idea.
>
> When the original members of Nova Roma blocked them after a desperate
> struggle,
>
> ATS: Desperate struggle? Where? On the BA? I sure missed that, so it
> must not have been in the Senate or on the magisterial lists.
>
>
> of which many citizens were unaware,
>
> ATS: Well, I certainly was unaware of any desperate struggle, or, for
> that matter, of anything until the matter of dictatorship was discussed in the
> Senate.
>
>
> they realized when we the
> victors would not say " Aw shucks we know you were only kidding..." and that
> many had opened themselves to real and costly legislation in the real world
> for their legal trespasses, they fled.
>
> ATS: I disagree. As above, there were other reasons. Of course, I¹m not
> paranoid, as some seem to be...
>
> Their resignations are the equivalent of losers falling on their swords to
> avoid proscription. And while that may be the cowardly way out consider
> how many of us original Nova Romanoi had to deal, nay endure these
> people, who insulted and intimidated those who did not agree with them or
> their personal goals. Yet we stayed, we fought, we endured. We did not
> leave.
>
> ATS: Insulted and intimidated the BA members? More like the BA members
> insulted and intimidated anyone whose views they did not like. It¹s the
> favorite activity of some. BTW, there are many good people in NR who did NOT
> arrive in the first week or the first year after its founding, and quite
> possibly some who did are not so meritorious.
>
>
> Today the fact that many of the original members of Nova Roma are once
> again active, and the Nova Roma which was set on the path by C. Fabius
> Quintilianus where the cult of personality ruled Nova Roma has come to an end.
>
> ATS: Cult of personality? Huh? And with Quintilianus? What DID you
> have to drink on New Year¹s Eve? Or subsequently?
>
> It
> was these personalities that prevent persons from running for offices,
> silenced them through illegal use of laws, and intimidated them by threats.
>
> ATS: What? Don¹t be ridiculous. All qualified candidates were
> accepted...until THIS YEAR, when your new-found pal crossed over to the dark
> side.
>
>
> That day is over, the Cult of Personality has fallen with Fabius
> Quintilianus resignation and we will have again a Republic that will be ruled
> by law
> and not whim.
>
> ATS: Guess that¹s why the laws have been ignored. Not by Marinus and /
> or Quintilianus, either.
>
> As for honourable Romans madam, you are surrounded by them. Men and Women
> who did not forsake their republic when threatened with ruin or worse and
> persevered.
>
> ATS: Who are these supposed victims of threats of ruin? The only ones I
> have heard about emanated from your side, from the BA group, not their
> opponents.
>
> If you do not wish to remain within their ranks and rather
> fall on your sword,
>
> ATS: WHAT?! Why should I commit suicide? Or leave NR? For reasons
> unknown to me, but perhaps known to the former consul, I was wrongly prevented
> from running for office. I am not so sure that those still here are so
> honorable as they seem to think, or things would have been done very
> differently. Moreover, in case there are any lingering doubts, I am not a
> member of Quintilianus¹ inner (or outer) circle; in fact, he doesn¹t like me.
> I have also had very little contact with Marinus for the past several years,
> and none with Quintilianus. I was not privy to any thoughts of a
> dictatorship, let alone any plans for that. Now maybe you and / or the former
> consul believe that I was, but you and he are wrong. Wouldn¹t be the first
> time.
>
>
> we will understand. In fact it is expected if you are a
> Roman.
>
> ATS: Sure. Leave if you don¹t think the way Sulla and you and pals do.
> Leave if you are wronged by a magistrate who may have paranoid delusions about
> you. Not really the Roman way at all. Maybe the Shogun Japanese one.
>
> Valete
>
> Valete.
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82714 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: a.d. IV Non. Ian.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem IV Nonas Ianuarius; hic dies fastus aterque est.

"By the order of Amulius some of his servants took the babes [Romulus
and Remus] in an ark and carried them to the river, distant about a
hundred and twenty stades from the city, with the intention of
throwing them into it. But when they drew near and perceived that the
Tiber, swollen by continual rains, had left its natural bed and
overflowed the plains, they came down from the top of the Palatine
hill to that part of the water that lay nearest (for they could no
longer advance any farther) and set down the ark upon the flood where
it washed the foot of the hill. The ark floated for some time, and
then, as the waters retired by degrees from their extreme limits, it
struck against a stone and, overturning, threw out the babes, who lay
whimpering and wallowing in the mud. Upon this, a she-wolf that had
just whelped appeared and, her udder being distended with milk, gave
them her paps to suck and with her tongue licked off the mud with
which they were besmeared. In the meantime the herdsmen happened to be
driving their flocks forth to pasture (for the place was now become
passable) and one of them, seeing the wolf thus fondling the babes,
was for some time struck dumb with astonishment and disbelief of what
he saw. Then going away and getting together as many as he could of
his fellows who kept their herds near at hand (for they would not
believe what he said), he led them to see the sight themselves. When
these also drew near and saw the wolf caring for the babes as if they
had been her young and the babes clinging to her as to their mother,
they thought they were beholding a supernatural sight and advanced in
a body, shouting to terrify the creature. The wolf, however, far from
being provoked at the approach of the men, but as if she had been
tame, withdrew gently from the babes and went away, paying little heed
to the rabble of shepherds. Now there was not far off a holy place,
arched over by a dense wood, and a hollow rock from which springs
issued; the wood was said to be consecrated to Pan, and there was an
altar there to that god. To this place, then, the wolf came and hid
herself. The grove, to be sure, no longer remains, but the cave from
which the spring flows is still pointed out, built up against the side
of the Palatine hill on the road which leads to the Circus, and near
it is a sacred precinct in which there is a statue commemorating the
incident; it represents a she-wolf suckling two infants, the figures
being in bronze and of ancient workmanship. This spot is said to have
been a holy place of the Arcadians who formerly settled there with
Evander.

As soon as the beast was gone the herdsmen took up the babes, and
believing that the god desired their preservation, were eager to bring
them up. There was among them the keeper of the royal herds of swine,
whose name was Faustulus, an upright man, who had been in town upon
some necessary business at the time when the deflowering of Ilia and
her delivery were made public. And afterwards, when the babes were
being carried to the river, he had by some providential chance taken
the same road to the Palatine hill and gone along with those who were
carrying them. this man, without giving the least intimation to the
others that he knew anything of the affair, asked that the babes might
be delivered to him, and having received them by general consent, he
carried them home to his wife. And finding that she had just given
birth to a child and was grieving because it was still-born, he
comforted her and gave her these children to substitute in its place,
informing her of every circumstance of their fortune from the
beginning. And as they grew older he gave to one the name of Romulus
and to the other that of Remus. When they came to be men, they showed
themselves both in dignity of aspect and elevation of mind not like
swineherds and neatherds, but such as we might expect those to be who
are born of royal race and are looked upon as the offspring of the
gods; and as such they are still celebrated by the Romans in the hymns
of their country. But their life was that of herdsmen, and they lived
by their own labour, generally upon the mountains in huts which they
built, roofs and all, out of sticks and reeds. One of these, called
the hut of Romulus, remained even to my day on the flank of the
Palatine hill which faces towards the Circus, and it is preserved holy
by those who have charge of these matters; they add nothing to it to
render it more stately, but if any part of it is injured, either by
storms or by the lapse of time, they repair the damage and restore the
hut as nearly as possible to its former condition." - Dionysius of
Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" 1.79.iiii-xi


"At Patavium, there was a well-known prophet called Caius Cornelius,
who was a fellow-citizen and acquaintance of Livy the historian. On
the day of the battle this man happened to be sitting at his prophetic
work and first, according to Livy, he realized that the battle was
taking place at that very moment and said to those who were present
that now was the time when matters were being decided and now the
troops were going into action; then he had a second look and, when he
had examined the signs, he jumped up in a kind of ecstasy and cried
out: 'Caesar, the victory is yours!' Those who were standing by were
amazed at him, but he took the garland from his head and solemnly
swore that he would not wear it again until facts had proved that his
arts had revealed the truth to him. Livy, certainly, is most emphatic
that this really happened." - Plutarch, Parallel Lives, "Caesar" 47

"There is this exceptionally beneficial and fruitful advantage to be
derived from the study of the past, that you see, set in the clear
light of historical truth, examples of every possible type. From these
you may select for yourself and your country what to imitate, and also
what, as being mischievous in its inception and disastrous in its
issues, you are to avoid. Unless, however, I am misled by affection
for my undertaking, there has never existed any commonwealth greater
in power, with a purer morality, or more fertile in good examples; or
any state in which avarice and luxury have been so late in making
their inroads, or poverty and frugality so highly and continuously
honoured, showing so clearly that the less wealth men possessed the
less they coveted. In these latter years wealth has brought avarice in
its train, and the unlimited command of pleasure has created in men a
passion for ruining themselves and everything else through
self-indulgence and licentiousness. But criticisms which will be
unwelcome, even when perhaps necessary, must not appear in the
commencement at all events of this extensive work. We should much
prefer to start with favourable omens, and if we could have adopted
the poets' custom, it would have been much pleasanter to commence with
prayers and supplications to gods and goddesses that they would grant
a favourable and successful issue to the great task before us." -
Livy, History of Rome, Preface

On this day in A.D. 17, the historian Titus Livius (Livy) died,
probably at Padua. In antiquity, Livy was praised by many authors.
Writing during the reign of the emperor Domitian, Quintilian states
that Romans Livy and Sallustius were the equals of the Greek
historians Herodotus of Halicarnassus and Thucydides. This was, at the
end of the first century, the greatest praise possible --- it was only
during the age of the Severan emperors that the Romans had sufficient
cultural self-confidence to bluntly state that they no longer cared
about Greek civilization. When Livy told a story, Quintilian said, it
was clear as crystal, and his speeches were eloquent beyond
description. Quintilian was not the only one to praise the author of
the History of Rome from its foundation. In 79, Pliny the Younger
preferred reading Livy to the spectacle of the explosion of the
Vesuvius. In the Middle Ages and Renaissance, Livy was still admired
for his style, and this has never changed.


Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82715 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.

Once again, you make your argument weaker and weaker by using phrases like this:

"If you're a member of Team BA, formerly known as the Boni, you get a free pass; if not, you get abused."

A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and when a link is either non-existent or simply false, the chain serves no purpose.

Every time you declare that the subscribers of the BA are all former Boni, you misrepresent them; every time you do so even after being corrected, you purposefully lie. You have been corrected several times, yet you persist in spreading what you *think* is a malicious falsehood. To what end I am not sure, but it is far beneath your dignity to continue to do so.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82716 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Scholasticae salutem dicit

I have joined the Back Alley list, and Lentulus is there also. It is not as
bad as you would think, and I have enjoyed some of the discussion there. It
is filled with a lot of "clutter," but you don't have to participate in
every conversation. I would recommend that you too join the Back Alley and
get to know the people there. Delete what you do not like and participate
in what you find interesting and worthy of your time. I agree with Cato in
that bringing up the Back Alley, and the Boni, does little to further your
cause -- and you did receive support from several folks on the Back Alley.

Vale;

Caeso Buteo

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

>
>
> Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.
>
> Once again, you make your argument weaker and weaker by using phrases like
> this:
>
>
> "If you're a member of Team BA, formerly known as the Boni, you get a free
> pass; if not, you get abused."
>
> A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and when a link is either
> non-existent or simply false, the chain serves no purpose.
>
> Every time you declare that the subscribers of the BA are all former Boni,
> you misrepresent them; every time you do so even after being corrected, you
> purposefully lie. You have been corrected several times, yet you persist in
> spreading what you *think* is a malicious falsehood. To what end I am not
> sure, but it is far beneath your dignity to continue to do so.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82717 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Oath of censorial office
Omnibus collegae s.d.

Here is my oath for the magistracy of censor :

"I, Publius Memmius Albucius (Ch. Puissant) do hereby solemnly swear
to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of
the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Publius Memmius Albucius (Ch. Puissant) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the roman virtues in my public and private life.

I, Publius Memmius Albucius (Ch. Puissant) swear to uphold and defend
the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act
in a way that would threaten its status as the State religion.

I, Publius Memmius Albucius (Ch. Puissant) swear to protect and
defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Publius Memmius Albucius (Ch. Puissant) further swear to fulfill
the obligations and responsibilities of the office of censor to the best of
my abilities.

On my honor as a citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of censor and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and
responsibilities attendant thereto."



P. Memmius Albucius
censor

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82718 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: On NR official lists and others and their status
Salvete omnes,

I have been reported several times, during these last weeks, mainly as consul, on speeches held in various lists which had been created during the previous years, or hosting some of our cives.

You will find below the official (recent) list of... our official lists :

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/SC_2763_Nov._1-1_%28Nova_Roma%29


What does this mean ?

That every list which is not included in the "directory" above is not an official list supported or sponsored by NR government, and cannot commit, in any way, Nova Roma as a Republic or as a non-profit making corporation, nor its moral or legal responsibility.

We have two kinds of lists that escape the above list :
- the ones which were never official lists ;
- the ones which were once, but which are no longer now.

In the first case, we have, for ex. the BA list, but also every list which would have just a marginal relation to NR (for ex. one moderator belonging to NR, and no other NR member inside).

In the second case, we have, for ex., the New Roman list, or the Religio romana one : they were official lists at a given time but are no longer. They must be considered, as the BA and other lists of this global kind, as private lists, either initiated by a person (civis or not), or by a group of NR cives (sodalitas, even informal one).


Legal corollary :

- NR Law apply just on NR official lists, with a difference between public ones and not-public ones (for ex., in this last group, the lists which allow the good working of a magistracy). NR Law, specially penal one or censorial powers, apply on public ones ; the private official lists are ruled by the imperium/potestas of the magistrate/officer who manage them ;

- NR Law is not concerned by the speeches held in all these private lists, who are just under their moderators' and Yahoo! TOS' responsibility, as long as these speeches are not published publicly by one of its members.


Valete omnes,


P. Memmius Albucius
censor









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82719 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Religio Romana list
Salvete omnes

Could i please ask one of the Moderators of the Religio Romana list to contact me privately with regards to the appallingly intolerant message that was posted there this morning.

My email address is:

jbshr1pwa@...

Thank you.

Valete omnes
Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82720 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Religio_Romana_Cultorum_Deorum@yahoogroups.com
Salvete omnes

I apologise for getting confused between the groups called Religio Romana.

Thank you, Metelle for responding to my last message, to say that it wasn't the group he is involved with, but the one under the jurisdiction of Piscinus, and for which the email address is in the header to this message.

Would someone from that group please contact me privately at the following email address:-

jbshr1pwa@...

Valete optime
Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82721 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Most of the back alley came out and said she should be able to run. I
included. She is just becoming very...whats the word..Maioresque. It is
quite amusing and sad at the same time.

Vale,

Sulla

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 3:40 AM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...>wrote:

>
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Scholasticae salutem dicit
>
> I have joined the Back Alley list, and Lentulus is there also. It is not as
> bad as you would think, and I have enjoyed some of the discussion there. It
> is filled with a lot of "clutter," but you don't have to participate in
> every conversation. I would recommend that you too join the Back Alley and
> get to know the people there. Delete what you do not like and participate
> in what you find interesting and worthy of your time. I agree with Cato in
> that bringing up the Back Alley, and the Boni, does little to further your
> cause -- and you did receive support from several folks on the Back Alley.
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Buteo
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...<catoinnyc%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.
> >
> > Once again, you make your argument weaker and weaker by using phrases
> like
> > this:
> >
> >
> > "If you're a member of Team BA, formerly known as the Boni, you get a
> free
> > pass; if not, you get abused."
> >
> > A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and when a link is either
> > non-existent or simply false, the chain serves no purpose.
> >
> > Every time you declare that the subscribers of the BA are all former
> Boni,
> > you misrepresent them; every time you do so even after being corrected,
> you
> > purposefully lie. You have been corrected several times, yet you persist
> in
> > spreading what you *think* is a malicious falsehood. To what end I am not
> > sure, but it is far beneath your dignity to continue to do so.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82722 From: Gaius Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Salvete omnes,

The "here come the bad Boni" stuff is just as tiresome now as it was when Maior spouted it in my candidacy for Consul years ago.

It is not unusual for people who held certain joint beliefs to continue to retain those joint beliefs over time. That does not mean they have to be members of some secret club be it Boni or BA or whatever.

Anyone who wants to see what the BA is about can join. Believe me, it is far less mysterious, scary and vile that some like to think. You can always unsubscribe.

Valete,

C. Popillius Laenas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82723 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Ave!

Scholastica is just as bitter and clingy just as Hortensia Maior was. It
really is that simple. She seems to be have more in common with those who
are having the anti christian fest over at the email lists created by
Piscinus.

Vale,

Sulla

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 10:13 AM, Gaius <gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:

>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> The "here come the bad Boni" stuff is just as tiresome now as it was when
> Maior spouted it in my candidacy for Consul years ago.
>
> It is not unusual for people who held certain joint beliefs to continue to
> retain those joint beliefs over time. That does not mean they have to be
> members of some secret club be it Boni or BA or whatever.
>
> Anyone who wants to see what the BA is about can join. Believe me, it is
> far less mysterious, scary and vile that some like to think. You can always
> unsubscribe.
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Popillius Laenas
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82724 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Lucio Cornelio Sullae Felici salutem dicit

Scholastica is hardly "just as" Marca Hortensia Maior. To compare their
behavior as equal to each other is a gross generalization and unfair.
Likewise, she has shown no "anti-Christian" behavior so comparing her in
such a matter is both absurd and damaging to her character; therefore,
wrong!

Vale;

Caeso Buteo

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Robert Woolwine
<robert.woolwine@...>wrote:

> Ave!
>
> Scholastica is just as bitter and clingy just as Hortensia Maior was. It
> really is that simple. She seems to be have more in common with those who
> are having the anti christian fest over at the email lists created by
> Piscinus.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82725 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Ave!

If it walks like a duck...quacks like a duck....looks like a duck...well,
its time to go hunting.

Vale,

Sulla

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 3:15 PM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...>wrote:

>
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Lucio Cornelio Sullae Felici salutem dicit
>
> Scholastica is hardly "just as" Marca Hortensia Maior. To compare their
> behavior as equal to each other is a gross generalization and unfair.
> Likewise, she has shown no "anti-Christian" behavior so comparing her in
> such a matter is both absurd and damaging to her character; therefore,
> wrong!
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Buteo
>
> On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Robert Woolwine
> <robert.woolwine@... <robert.woolwine%40gmail.com>>wrote:
>
>
> > Ave!
> >
> > Scholastica is just as bitter and clingy just as Hortensia Maior was. It
> > really is that simple. She seems to be have more in common with those who
> > are having the anti christian fest over at the email lists created by
> > Piscinus.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82726 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Lucio Cornelio Sullae Felici salutem dicit

What does a cliche have to do with anything? I am saying you are making a
generalization and you make another one. Scholastica does not mirror the
behavior of Maior. Just because you disagree with both people doesn't make
them the same. And you shouldn't be "hunting" fellow citizens.

Vale;

Caeso Buteo

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Robert Woolwine
<robert.woolwine@...>wrote:

> Ave!
>
> If it walks like a duck...quacks like a duck....looks like a duck...well,
> its time to go hunting.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82727 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-02
Subject: Re: On Resignations
She is beginning to ape the worst characteristics of Maior. That is my
opinion, I believe that would be the opinion of others as well, but I am
fine with claiming it as my own. Stating my opinion is not hunting. It is
stating what I think is becoming a trend with the hope that the person in
particular would take a step back and reflect on the path she is on and
hopefully change the path.

Vale,

Sulla

On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 4:54 PM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...>wrote:

>
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Lucio Cornelio Sullae Felici salutem dicit
>
> What does a cliche have to do with anything? I am saying you are making a
> generalization and you make another one. Scholastica does not mirror the
> behavior of Maior. Just because you disagree with both people doesn't make
> them the same. And you shouldn't be "hunting" fellow citizens.
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Buteo
>
> On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Robert Woolwine
>
> <robert.woolwine@... <robert.woolwine%40gmail.com>>wrote:
>
> > Ave!
> >
> > If it walks like a duck...quacks like a duck....looks like a duck...well,
> > its time to go hunting.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82728 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Rudimenta Latina class
A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

After an absence of over three years, we are now able to offer the short
Rudimenta Latina course, which deals with the history of Latin. This course
provides a background for entry into our Latin language courses, but is not
required for them. This course lasts a mere ten weeks, nine of instruction
and one allotted to an examination; there is no written homework, and only
one test, a final examination. The (very interesting) textbook is A Natural
History of Latin, by Tore Janson. It is advisable, but not required, to
have the text in hand before the course begins. At present the tentative
start date is Monday, January 10th; we do have to make some revisions in the
lessons and dates assigned to them, but in general the course is enrollable
at present. If anyone is interested in this course, he or she should
contact me privately; we do not post the registration information on any
list.

Accincta armis omnibus, ad spatia pergo.

Valete.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82729 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Re: On Resignations
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.
>
> Once again, you make your argument weaker and weaker by using phrases like
> this:
>
> "If you're a member of Team BA, formerly known as the Boni, you get a free
> pass; if not, you get abused."
>
> A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and when a link is either
> non-existent or simply false, the chain serves no purpose.
>
> Every time you declare that the subscribers of the BA are all former Boni,
>
> ATS: What makes you think I said that? For all I know, the membership of
> the BA includes the residents of several Carmelite monasteries along with all
> of Opus Dei. However, it seems that there are in fact several individuals on
> the BA who once upon a time called themselves Boni. Do you deny that?
>
> you misrepresent them; every time you do so even after being corrected, you
> purposefully lie.
>
> ATS: I don¹t lie. Now, maybe I have been misinformed, but that is a
> little different.
>
>
> You have been corrected several times, yet you persist in spreading what you
> *think* is a malicious falsehood. To what end I am not sure, but it is far
> beneath your dignity to continue to do so.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82730 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Re: On Resignations
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Scholasticae salutem dicit
>
> I have joined the Back Alley list, and Lentulus is there also.
>
> ATS: I am aware that Lentulus is there. So are other friends of mine.
>
>
> It is not as
> bad as you would think,
>
> ATS: Did the foulmouthed and aggressive members all leave?
>
>
> and I have enjoyed some of the discussion there.
>
> ATS: Good. I¹m sure that the members are capable of intellectual
> discussions.
>
>
> It
> is filled with a lot of "clutter," but you don't have to participate in
> every conversation. I would recommend that you too join the Back Alley and
> get to know the people there.
>
> ATS: I already know several of them. If I joined the BA, Modiane, I
> might as well wear a sandwich board with a target painted on it and words
> along the lines of Hit Me. A fundamentalist Baptist convention might be more
> merciful to Piscinus, or you, or any of the RR clergy, if any of you chose to
> preach to them. It¹s no secret that Messallina was viciously abused there,
> that suggestions were made that she should indulge in highly inappropriate
> activities with members of her sex (if I were on the BA I could specify their
> nature, but we still have minor citizens on this list), and word has come that
> Lentulus has been viciously assailed there as well. I know that some of these
> BA members hate me; why should I walk into that?
>
>
> Delete what you do not like and participate
> in what you find interesting and worthy of your time. I agree with Cato in
> that bringing up the Back Alley, and the Boni, does little to further your
> cause -- and you did receive support from several folks on the Back Alley.
>
> ATS: Well, it¹s good to know that some of them can recognize wrong when
> they see it. The next time it might be one of them who gets shafted by such
> devious means. . . though I doubt anyone from Libra would pull the sort of
> trick which was engineered against me (and some others).
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Buteo
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 5:15 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...
> <mailto:catoinnyc%40gmail.com> > wrote:
>
>> >
>> >
>> > Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.
>> >
>> > Once again, you make your argument weaker and weaker by using phrases like
>> > this:
>> >
>> >
>> > "If you're a member of Team BA, formerly known as the Boni, you get a free
>> > pass; if not, you get abused."
>> >
>> > A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and when a link is either
>> > non-existent or simply false, the chain serves no purpose.
>> >
>> > Every time you declare that the subscribers of the BA are all former Boni,
>> > you misrepresent them; every time you do so even after being corrected, you
>> > purposefully lie. You have been corrected several times, yet you persist in
>> > spreading what you *think* is a malicious falsehood. To what end I am not
>> > sure, but it is far beneath your dignity to continue to do so.
>> >
>> > Vale,
>> >
>> > Cato
>> >
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82731 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Re: On Resignations
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica iterum K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> Again, thank you for your kind words, Modiane; they probably will get you
> some flak on the BA. And here.
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Lucio Cornelio Sullae Felici salutem dicit
>
> Scholastica is hardly "just as" Marca Hortensia Maior.
>
> ATS: Indeed. We are both white women from NYS (opposite ends thereof),
> both favor Latin and like classical antiquity, and both have graduate
> educations. The similarities seem to end there.
>
>
> To compare their
> behavior as equal to each other is a gross generalization and unfair.
>
> ATS: Indeed.
>
>
> Likewise, she has shown no "anti-Christian" behavior so comparing her in
> such a matter is both absurd and damaging to her character; therefore,
> wrong!
>
> ATS: Indeed. Methinks Sulla is getting bored. He loves verbal fights
> (not sure about physical ones), and has lost so many of his targets. Major is
> gone, Marinus is gone, Quintilianus is gone, Anna is gone (dis gratias)...so
> he has to pick on someone to keep amused. Besides, this so-called
> anti-Christian fest on the RR list is the work of one man who has serious
> English language problems and has spouted off with similar words in the past.
> Those used to be commonplace on the ML in the days of certain departed
> pontifices and others, but that seems to have been conveniently forgotten.
>
> Poor Sulla thinks I am bitter and clingy (how these are related escapes
> me); I am neither! I¹m not a roll of Saran Wrap...or a bottle of vinegar...
>
> I am, however, concerned that someone thought that it was appropriate to
> block qualified candidates, and that, too, by devious means, that someone
> thought it appropriate to ensure that all possible offices be uncontested, and
> that all candidates represent one political philosophy. That is not the way
> things used to be done in NR. One wonders if some tit for tat was involved.
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Buteo
>
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 3:06 PM, Robert Woolwine
> <robert.woolwine@... <mailto:robert.woolwine%40gmail.com> >wrote:
>
>> > Ave!
>> >
>> > Scholastica is just as bitter and clingy just as Hortensia Maior was. It
>> > really is that simple. She seems to be have more in common with those who
>> > are having the anti christian fest over at the email lists created by
>> > Piscinus.
>> >
>> > Vale,
>> >
>> > Sulla
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82732 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Re: On Resignations
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica iterum K. Fabio Buteoni Modiano quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Lucio Cornelio Sullae Felici salutem dicit
>
> What does a cliche have to do with anything? I am saying you are making a
> generalization and you make another one. Scholastica does not mirror the
> behavior of Maior.
>
> ATS: Indeed I do not. We are very different; and in case anyone has
> forgotten, did not get along well.
>
>
> Just because you disagree with both people doesn't make
> them the same.
>
> ATS: Exactly.
>
> And you shouldn't be "hunting" fellow citizens.
>
> ATS: Assentior.
>
> Vale;
>
> Caeso Buteo
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 2, 2011 at 6:02 PM, Robert Woolwine
> <robert.woolwine@... <mailto:robert.woolwine%40gmail.com> >wrote:
>
>> > Ave!
>> >
>> > If it walks like a duck...quacks like a duck....looks like a duck...well,
>> > its time to go hunting.
>> >
>> > Vale,
>> >
>> > Sulla
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82733 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Re: On Resignations
Caesar Scholasticae sal.

You are correct. There are several members who were Boni, several who were Libra, and lots more that were no faction then, now ever likely in the future. On your logic of interlinking the presence of a few former Boni members to a list, you might as well refer to it as Team ML or Team Senatus, since all the former Boni are also on both those lists.

As the years roll by more and more people have come into Nova Roma who have no idea what or who the Boni were. In case you missed Fabius's announcement in 2004 that was when it ceased to operate as a faction. Maybe you were too busy at the time associating with the Libra faction and missed that post, or was it that it was ignored as either not credible because you were mired in conspiracy theories or inconvenient to lose a bogey man to intimidate new citizens with? It is well known what you get up to, my way of indoctrinating new people with your rather absurd views.

I have watched your performance since you were rejected as a candidate, and at the time you were informed you were not going to be allowed to stand I suspected this would become your latest stick to wave about.

Claims that you were foiled in your candidacy because you were a woman, educated and the rest of the clap trap you peddle, would underpin what has always been a woefully erroneous sliver of knowledge you have about the Boni. The Boni prevented you, right, through their minion the Consul?

No doubt your source on the Boni was someone like Marinus, along with his declared loathing for Sulla equal to the heat of a thousand suns, his words not mine. That level of emotion and quite possibly hatred clouded his judgment for years, culminating in his electing to participate in a coup attempt, which had as one of its goals a purge of, amongst others, some or all of the former Boni.

I am sure you knowledge is a mishmash of second hand tittle-tattle and in some cases outright slander, peddled by former factional opponents of the Boni to create a political impetus that pushed them into "power" for nigh on 5 years, in one venue or another. Vote for us and block the scary, scry Boni!

So since you seem to want to commune with the dead, let me, as former member, tell you about the Boni Scholastica. The Boni were a small faction of fairly long standing citizens. Some were still actively involved in "politics", others were not. In 2004 there was an influx of new blood, due in part to Modianus being an effective recruiter. I joined at his suggestion. I found them to be very conservative, something I liked. They didn't favour reconstructing in a hasty manner, but rather to exhaust all the models provided from antiquity before moving to modern adaptations. That made perfect sense to me.

What the Boni was not was very organized. They had a list, oh yes a "secret" list. Yes, as secret as McDonalds. Most factions knew the names of the opposing factions' lists. They had no website, and when one was proposed by Hadrianus it didn't get a lot of support. They didn't believe in a huge program of promises to entice voters, that probably couldn't be kept. Conversations could be very depressing, with (due respect to his shade) Drusus declaiming Nova Roma was on a path to ruin and Scaurus railing against the latest absurdities in the CP. The Boni was reactive, not very proactive. They didn't organize very well, frequently got stuffed electorally and generally were no danger to anyone. They did in my estimation have a pretty good handle on what their opponents were up to, stuffing the upper centuries with appointees bloated on CP points.

Personal dislikes of some of the members of the Boni by people like Marinus, Quintilanus and later others such as Piscinus and of course the omnipresent Maior led to the Boni being cast in the light of the demons of darkness. It was mildly amusing but at the same time also rather pathetic that the voters of NR allowed themselves to be duped into buying that hogwash.

The good thing though was that it paved the way for five jolly fine years of a right old stuff up on just about every level, by those denizens you glorify as such a loss to Nova Roma. When in "power" they managed to make a total flub of everything they touched. Oh jolly us, we got a couple of trials and banishments, a website sent off into the frozen north because they upset the chap who hosted it for free, botched elections, scribes bullied by a praetor, heads in bag over the MMP (the great defunct sacred cow). You name it and they messed it up. It was always the fault of someone else though, a plot, a wicked wicked plot, and under every collapsed bed of their own making they claimed, and at times with you also, they found the Boni! Personally I thought it was due to their sawing the legs off the bed, or not constructing it properly, but a total lack of ownership for their actions meant it was easier to blame the Boni, dead since 2004.

But hey, they were upright people, for a time, or so we were endlessly told so that nausea set in, until someone fell out with someone, or stabbed someone in the back, or quit, or went off the deep end and started planning dictatorships.

So there you go. Anything else you like to know about the Boni, or are just going to continue trawling that corpse around the forum yelling that the u dead have arisen (again) for years to come, like Maior did? Maybe you should offer garlic and stakes for sale too :)

As for the Back Alley, I found it to be a breath of fresh air free from amongst other things the innuendo you slip in to every post of a political nature. For example don't think I am unaware of who you are referring to as nit picking on corporate law. If you invested half the time in understanding why this organization has to be squeaky clean in that regard as you do in building yet another half baked conspiracy theory to support your long standing claims of victimization, then you might actually be worth your space in the Senate. As it is the fact that you got denied the chance to run as consul will no doubt be dinned into our ears for years to come. When the faction that those two you eulogized were running the shop everyone else basically got told to suck it up and quit whining. Well if they were such marvels, let me hand you their spoon and perhaps you can take a dose of "suck it up" and move on? Sauce for the goose.

So either get yourself over to the BA or continue to make a total fool of yourself slamming some of the very people, by associating them with a long dead faction, that supported you in your appeal to stand for the consulship. Frankly I don't care if you continue, because I predicted you would continue regardless in this claim that the BA is a nest of the Boni (though when challenged reduce it to several in number) as it feeds the paranoia you enjoy spreading around about "The Boni are coming, the Boni are coming!" Can you go down to the Halloween store and buy a another more relevant monster to stuff under your bed? The Boni one is getting threadbare and tatty. You need a new voodoo doll to shake and rattle.

Oh, and if the Boni were as dangerous and so inclined to toss ya all out as you and your friends of claimed over many moons, you wouldn't have been here able to moan endlessly about your lost consulship bid or the victimization you and other "decent women" suffer. You might have been long gone, but then the Boni didn't ever stage a coup and try to ram in a dictator.

Optime vale

--- On Mon, 1/3/11, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:

> From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: On Resignations
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, January 3, 2011, 1:01 AM
> > 
> > 
> >  A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni
> quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >   
> >
> > Cato Tulliae Scholasticae sal.
> >
> > Once again, you make your argument weaker and weaker
> by using phrases like
> > this:
> >
> > "If you're a member of Team BA, formerly known as the
> Boni, you get a free
> > pass; if not, you get abused."
> >
> > A chain is only as strong as its weakest link, and
> when a link is either
> > non-existent or simply false, the chain serves no
> purpose.
> >
> > Every time you declare that the subscribers of the BA
> are all former Boni,
> >
> >     ATS:  What makes you
> think I said that?  For all I know, the membership of
> > the BA includes the residents of several Carmelite
> monasteries along with all
> > of Opus Dei.  However, it seems that there are in
> fact several individuals on
> > the BA who once upon a time called themselves
> Boni.  Do you deny that?
> >
> > you misrepresent them; every time you do so even after
> being corrected, you
> > purposefully lie.
> >
> >     ATS:  I don¹t lie. 
> Now, maybe I have been misinformed, but that is a
> > little different.
> >
> >
> >  You have been corrected several times, yet you
> persist in spreading what you
> > *think* is a malicious falsehood.  To what end I
> am not sure, but it is far
> > beneath your dignity to continue to do so.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> > 
> >   
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82734 From: Tragedienne Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Call For Scribae
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.


Greetings cives! Looking for something to do? Come join the Curule Aedilian Cohors, the happiest Cohors in all of Nova Roma! (Well we are the Happy Bees).

My Colleague and I are looking to fill a couple more slots for our yearly Staff of Scribae. I say yearly because we will also be issuing a call for Temporary Scriba to help with the games and other projects, because not everyone has the time to commit for a year, but hey in case people still want to help out, I believe also this gives opportunity and I'm a firm believer in fairness. That call will be issued at a later time this for the entire year at this point.

In a realistic moment, my colleague and I are both peaceful people. We are firm believers in being productive (and right now the Aedile Cohors is popping with activity), so thats what we are looking for, not drama, not random acts of divadom, basically if you can work well and also play well with others. If you fit this bill and you want to do something active in the Res Republica and you must be Assidui (Aeternia unfortunately doesn't make these kinds of rules), contact the Curule Aedile Maior which would be me.

So please e-mail me at the following e-mail address MusesDream@... (not my other three) with the Subject Header "I Wanna Be A Scribe" (no I'm not kidding).

Come join the Happy Bee Crew!


Thank you for your time and Attention in this matter.

Vale Optime,
Aeternia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82735 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: a.d. III Non. Ian.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem III Nonas Ianuarius; hic dies fastus est.


"But others, who hold that nothing bordering on the fabulous has any
place in historical writing, declare that the exposing of the babes by
the servants in a manner not in accordance with their instructions is
improbable, and they ridicule the tameness of the she-wolf that
suckled the children as a story full of melodramatic absurdity. In
place of this they give the following account of the matter: Numitor,
upon learning that Ilia was with child, procured other new-born
infants and when she had given birth to her babes, he substituted the
former in place of the latter. Then he gave the supposititious
children to those who were guarding her at the time of her delivery to
be carried away, having either secured the loyalty of the guards by
money or contrived this exchange by the help of women; and when
Amulius had received them, he made away with them by some means or
other. As for the babes that were born of Ilia, their grandfather, who
was above all things solicitous for their preservation, handed them
over to Faustulus. This Faustulus, they say, was of Arcadian
extraction, being descended from those Arcadians who came over with
Evander; he lived near the Palatine hill and had the care of Amulius'
possessions, and he was prevailed on by his brother, named Faustinus,
who had the oversight of Numitor's herds that fed near the Aventine
hill, to do Numitor the favour of bringing up the children. They say,
moreover, that the one who nursed and suckled them was not a she-wolf,
but, as may well be supposed, a woman, the wife of Faustulus, named
Laurentia, who, having formerly prostituted her beauty, had received
from the people living round the Palatine hill the nickname of Lupa.
This is an ancient Greek term applied to women who prostitute
themselves for gain; but they are now called by a more respectable
name, hetaerae or "companions." But some who were ignorant of this
invented the myth of the she-wolf, this animal being called in the
Latin tongue lupa. The story continues that after the children were
weaned they were sent by those who were rearing them to Gabii, a town
not far from the Palatine hill, to be instructed in Greek learning;
and there they were brought up by some personal friends of Faustulus,
being taught letters, music, and the use of Greek arms until they grew
to manhood. After their return to their supposed parents the quarrel
arose between them and Numitor's herdsmen concerning their common
pastures; thereupon they beat Numitor's men so that these drove away
their cattle, doing this by Numitor's direction, to the intent that it
might serve as a basis for his complaints and at the same time as an
excuse for the crowd of herdsmen to come to town. When this had been
brought about, Numitor raised a clamour against Amulius, declaring
that he was treated outrageously, being plundered by the herdsmen of
Amulius, and demanding that Amulius, if he was not responsible for any
of this, should delivering to him the herdsman and his sons for trial;
and Amulius, wishing to clear himself of the charge, ordered not only
those who were complained of, but all the rest who were accused of
having been present at the conflict, to come and stand trial before
Numitor. Then, when great numbers came to town together with the
accused, ostensibly to attend the trial, the grandfather of the youths
acquainted them with all the circumstances of their fortune, and
telling them that now, if ever, was the time to avenge themselves, he
straightway made his attack upon Amulius with the crowd of herdsmen.
these, then, are the accounts that are given of the birth and rearing
of the founders of Rome." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "Roman
Antiquities" 1.84


"His second wife was radiant Themis; she bore the Seasons,
Lawfulness and Justice and blooming Peace,
who watch over the works of mortal men..." - Hesiod, Theogony, 901-3

Open of yourselves, you doors, for mighty Ploutos (Wealth) will enter
in, and with Ploutos comes jolly Euphrosyne (Mirth) and gentle Eirene
(Peace). " - Homer's Epigrams XV

"And with a heart unsullied labours for Eirene, the city's friend." -
Pindar, Odes Olympian 4

"How far peace outweighs war in benefits to man; Eirene (Peace), the
chief friend and cherisher of the Mousai (Muses); Eirene (Peace), the
enemy of revenge, lover of families and children, patroness of wealth.
Yet these blessings we viciously neglect, embrace wars; man with man,
city with city fights, the strong enslaves the weak." - Euripides,
Suppliant Women 484

"The Horai, as they are called, to each of them, according as her name
indicates, was given [assigned by Zeus and Hera] the ordering and
adornment of life, so as to serve to the greatest advantage of
mankind; for there is nothing which is better to build a life of
felicity than obedience to law (Eunomia) and justice (Dike) and peace
(Eirene)." - Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 5.72.5

Today is held in honor of the goddess Pax. On the Campus Martius
(Field of Mars, the god of war), she had a minor sanctuary called the
Ara Pacis, dedicated to her on January 30, 9 B.C. Her temple was on
the Forum Pacis (Templum Placis) built on the site of a meat market by
Vespasian, which was dedicated in A.D. 75. She was depicted in art
with olive branches, a cornucopia and a sceptre. Pax became
celebrated (in both senses of the word) as Pax Romana and Pax Augusta
from the 2nd century B.C.

In Greek mythology, she was Eirene or Irene ("peace"), daughter of
Zeus and Themis, one of the first generation of Horae. The Horae (the
Hours, or Seasons) were Pax and her sisters Lawfulness, Wisdom and
Order (Eunomia) and Justice (Justitia/Dike). are sometimes considered
to be the three aspects of Themis. As goddesses of the seasons, they
brought order to nature. Eirene was the personification of peace and
wealth and was depicted in art as a beautiful young woman carrying a
cornucopia, sceptre and a torch or rhyton.


Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82736 From: gualterus_graecus Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Praetorial edict: scribe appointment
Salvete,

I, M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus, Praetor for the year MMDCCLXIV, appoint Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus as scriba to the praetorial office to aid in the various daily tasks including, but not limited to, list management. No oath is required. This edict takes effect immediately.

Valete,

M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus
Praetor
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82737 From: Gaia Valeria Pulchra Date: 2011-01-03
Subject: Correction to Oath of Office of Plebeian Aedile
Salvete omnes!

I, *Gaia Valeria Pulchra (Danyell Elaina Brodd)* do hereby solemnly swear to
uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of
the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, *Gaia Valeria Pulchra* swear to honor the
Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman
Virtues in my public and private life.

I, *Gaia Valeria Pulchra *swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as
the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would
threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, *Gaia Valeria Pulchra* swear to protect and defend the Constitution of
Nova Roma.

I, *Gaia Valeria Pulchra* further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of *Plebeian Aedile* to the best of my
abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and
Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the
position of Plebeian Aedile and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and
responsibilities attendant thereto.


Gratias vobis ago!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82738 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-04
Subject: prid. Non. Ian.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est pridie Nonas Ianuarius; haec dies comitialis est.

"I am now going to relate the events that happened at the very time of
its founding; for this part of my account still remains. When Numitor,
upon the death of Amulius, had resumed his rule and had spent a little
time in restoring the city from its late disorder to its former
orderly state, he presently thought of providing an independent rule
for the youths by founding another city. At the same time, the
inhabitants being much increased in number, he thought it good policy
to get rid of some part of them, particularly of those who had once
been his enemies, lest he might have cause to suspect any of his
subjects. And having communicated this plan to the youths and gained
their approval, he gave them, as a district to rule, the region where
they had been brought up in their infancy, and, for subjects, not only
that part of the people which he suspected of a design to begin
rebellion anew, but also any who were willing to migrate voluntarily.
Among these, as is likely to happen when a city sends out a colony,
there were great numbers of the common people, but there were also a
sufficient number of the prominent men of the best class, and of the
Trojan element all those who were esteemed the noblest in birth, some
of whose posterity remained even to my day, consisting of about fifty
families. The youths were supplied with money, arms and corn, with
slaves and beasts of burden and everything else that was of use in the
building of a city. After they had led their people out of Alba and
intermingled with them the local population that still remained in
Pallantium and Saturnia, they divided the whole multitude into two
parts. This they did in the hope of arousing a spirit of emulation,
so that through their rivalry with each other their tasks might be the
sooner finished; however, it produced the greatest of evils, discord.
For each group, exalting its own leader, extolled him as the proper
person to command them all; and the youths themselves, being now no
longer one in mind or feeling it necessary to entertain brotherly
sentiments toward each, since each expected to command the other,
scorned equality and craved superiority. For some time their ambitions
were concealed, but later they burst forth on the occasion which I
shall now describe. They did not both favour the same site for the
building of the city; for Romulus proposed to settle the Palatine
hill, among other reasons, because of the good fortune of the place
where they had been preserved and brought up, whereas Remus favoured
the place that is now named after him Remoria. And indeed this place
is very suitable for a city, being a hill not far from the Tiber and
about thirty stades from Rome. From this rivalry their unsociable love
of rule immediately began to disclose itself; for on the one who now
yielded the victor would inevitably impose his will on all occasions
alike.

Meanwhile, some time having elapsed and their discord in no degree
abating, the two agreed to refer the matter to their grandfather and
for that purpose went to Alba. He advised them to leave it to the
decision of the gods which of them should give his name to the colony
and be its leader. And having appointed for them a day, he ordered
them to place themselves early in the morning at a distance from one
another, in such stations as each of them should think proper, and
after first offering to the gods the customary sacrifices, to watch
for auspicious birds; and he ordered that he to whom the more
favourable birds first appeared should rule the colony. The youths,
approving of this, went away and according to their agreement appeared
on the day appointed for the test. Romulus chose for his station the
Palatine hill, where he proposed settling the colony, and Remus the
Aventine hill adjoining it, or, according to others, Remoria; and a
guard attended them both, to prevent their reporting things otherwise
than as they appeared. When they had taken their respective stations,
Romulus, after a short pause, from eagerness and jealousy of his
brother, — though possibly Heaven was thus directing him, — even
before he saw any omen at all, sent messengers to his brother desiring
him to come immediately, as if he had been the first to see some
auspicious birds. But while the persons he sent were proceeding with
no great haste, feeling ashamed of the fraud, six vultures appeared to
Remus, flying from the right; and he, seeing the birds, rejoiced
greatly. And not long afterwards the men sent by Romulus took him
thence and brought him to the Palatine hill. When they were together,
Remus asked Romulus what birds he had been the first to see, and
Romulus knew not what to answer. But thereupon twelve auspicious
vultures were seen flying; and upon seeing these he took courage, and
pointing them out to Remus, said: "Why do you demand to know what
happened a long time ago? For surely you see these birds yourself."
But Remus was indignant and complained bitterly because he had been
deceived by him; and he refused to yield to him his right to the
colony." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" 1.85-86


"You should know that the sea is separated from the earth. When
Jupiter claimed the land of Etruria for himself, he decided and
commanded the fields to be surveyed and the lands marked out. Knowing
the covetousness of man and his worldly greed, he wanted the
boundaries of everything to be marked by boundary stones. Those which
at any time anyone has placed because of the greed of this eighth -
almost the latest - saeculum, arrogating to themselves licence, men
with wrongful deceit will violate, touch and move. But if anyone
touches or moves a boundary stone, extending his own possessions or
diminishing those of someone else, for this crime he will be condemned
by the gods. If slaves shall do this, they shall be moved to a lower
status by their owner. But if this is done with the knowledge of the
master, the household will be immediately uprooted, and the whole of
his family will perish. The people responsible will be afflicted by
the worst diseases and wounds and their limbs will be weakened. Then
even the land will be shaken by storms or whirlwinds and many
landslips. The crops will be frequently laid low and cut down by rain
and hail, they will perish in the heat of the summer, they will be
killed off by blight. There will be civil strife amongst the people.
Know that these things happen, when such crimes are committed.
Therefore do not be either a deceitful or treacherous. Place restraint
in your heart. ..." - Tarquitius, Etruscan haruspex (c. 90 B.C.)

"Ortum videamus haruspicinae; sic facillume quid habeat auctoritatis
iudicabimus. Tages quidam dicitur in agro Tarquiniensi, cum terra
araretur et sulcus altius esset impressus, exstitisse repente et eum
adfatus esse qui arabat. Is autem Tages, ut in libris est Etruscorum,
puerili specie dicitur visus, sed senili fuisse prudentia. Eius
adspectu cum obstipuisset bubulcus clamoremque maiorem cum admiratione
edidisset, concursum esse factum, totamque brevi tempore in eum locum
Etruriam convenisse. Tum illum plura locutum multis audientibus, qui
omnia verba eius exceperint litterisque mandarint. Omnem autem
orationem fuisse eam qua haruspicinae disciplina contineretur; eam
postea crevisse rebus novis cognoscendis et ad eadem illa principia
referendis. Haec accepimus ab ipsis, haec scripta conservant, hunc
fontem habent disciplinae." - M. Tullius Cicero, "de Divinatione", 2.50

On this day the Etruscans celebrated in honor of the god Fufluns.
Flufuns is an Etruscan god of vegetation, vitality and gaiety, son of
the earth-goddess Semia. He shows many similarities with Dionysus and
Bacchus, the Greek and Roman gods of wine. The Etruscan religion was,
like Christianity and Judaism, a revealed religion. An account of the
revelation is given by Cicero (On Divination, 2.50). One day, says
the legend, in a field near the river Marta in Teruria, a strange
event occurred. A divine being rose up from the newly ploughed furrow,
a being with the appearance of a child, but with the wisdom of an old
man. The startled cry of the ploughman brought the lucomones, the
priest-kings of Etruria hurrying up to the spot. To them, the wise
child chanted the sacred doctrine, which they reverently listened to
and wrote down, so that this most precious possession could be passed
on to their successors. Immediately after the revelation, the
miraculous being fell dead and disappeared into the ploughed field.
His name was Tages, and he was believed to be the son of Genius and
grandson of the highest God, Tinia (or Iuppiter as he became known to
the Romans). This doctrine was known to the Romans as the "disciplina
etrusca".


Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82739 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-05
Subject: NONIIS IANUARIIS
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est Noniis Ianuariis; hic dies fastus est.

"Should the Nones be here, rain from dark clouds
Will be the sign, at the rising of the Lyre." - Ovid, Fasti I

In Greek mythology, Lyra was associated with the myth of Orpheus, the musician who was killed by the Bacchantes. After his death, his lyre was thrown into the river; Zeus sent an eagle to retrieve the lyre, and ordered both of them to be placed in the sky.

"After his death, according to the more common form of the legend, the Muses collected the fragments of his body, and buried them at Leibethra at the foot of Olympus, where the nightingale sang sweetly over his grave. The subsequent transference of his bones to Dium is evidently a local legend. (Paus. l. c.) His head was thrown upon the Hebrus, down which it rolled to the sea, and was borne across to Lesbos, where the grave in which it was interred was shown at Antissa. His lyre was also said to have been carried to Lesbos; and both traditions are simply poetical expressions of the historical fact that Lesbos was the first great seat of the music of the lyre: indeed Antissa itself was the birth-place of Terpander, the earliest historical musician. (Phanocles, ap. Stob. Tit. lxii. p. 399). The astronomers taught that the lyre of Orpheus was placed by Zeus anlong the stars, at the intercession of Apollo and the Muses (Eratosth. 24; Hygin. Astr. ii. 7; Manil. Astron. i. 324)." - http://www.mythindex.com/greek-mythology/O/Orpheus.html

"Thereupon greater strife arose between them than before, as each,
while secretly striving for the advantage, was ostensibly willing to
accept equality, for the following reason. Their grandfather, as I
have stated, had ordered that he to whom the more favourable birds
first appeared should rule the colony; but, as the same kind of birds
had been seen by both, one had the advantage of seeing them first and
the other that of seeing the greater number. The rest of the people
also espoused their quarrel, and arming themselves without orders from
their leaders, began war; and a sharp battle ensued in which many were
slain on both sides. In the course of this battle, as some say,
Faustulus, who had brought up the youths, wishing to put an end to the
strife of the brothers and being unable to do so, threw himself
unarmed into the midst of the combatants, seeking the speediest death,
which fell out accordingly. Some say also that the stone lion which
stood in the principal part of the Forum near the rostra was placed
over the body of Faustulus, who was buried by those who found him in
the place where he fell Remus having been slain in this action,
Romulus, who had gained a most melancholy victory through the death of
his brother and the mutual slaughter of citizens, buried Remus at
Remoria, since when alive he had clung to it as the site for the new
city. As for himself, in his grief and repentance for what had
happened, he became dejected and lost all desire for life. But when
Laurentia, who had received the babes when newly born and brought them
up and loved them no less than a mother, entreated and comforted him,
he listened to her and rose up, and gathering together the Latins who
had not been slain in the battle (they were now little more than three
thousand out of a very great multitude at first, when he led out the
colony), he built a city on the Palatine hill.

The account I have given seems to me the most probable of the stories
about the death of Remus. However, if any has been handed down that
differs from this, let that also be related. Some, indeed, say that
Remus yielded the leadership to Romulus, though not without resentment
and anger at the fraud, but that after the wall was built, wishing to
demonstrate the weakness of the fortification, he cried, 'Well, as for
this wall, one of your enemies could as easily cross it as I do,' and
immediately leaped over it. Thereupon Celer, one of the men standing
on the wall, who was overseer of the work, said, 'Well, as for this
enemy, one of us could easily punish him,' and striking him on the
head with a mattock, he killed him then and there. Such is said to
have been the outcome of the quarrel between the brothers.

Such, then, are the facts concerning the origin of the Romans which I
have been able to discover a reading very diligently many works
written by both Greek and Roman authors. Hence, from now on let the
reader forever renounce the views of those who make Rome a retreat of
barbarians, fugitive and vagabonds, and let him confidently affirm it
to be a Greek city, — which will be easy when he shows that it is at
once the most hospitable and friendly of all cities, and when he bears
in mind that the Aborigines were Oenotrians, and these in turn
Arcadians, and remembers those who joined with them in their
settlement, the Pelasgians who were Argives by descent and came into
Italy from Thessaly; and recalls, moreover, the arrival of Evander and
the Arcadians, who settled round the Palatine hill, after the
Aborigines had granted the place to them; and also the Peloponnesians,
who, coming along with Hercules, settled upon the Saturnian hill; and,
last of all, those who left the Troad and were intermixed with the
earlier settlers." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquitius"
1.87-88


"Plouton [Hades] fell in love with Persephone, and with Zeus' help
secretly kidnapped her. Demeter roamed the earth over in search of
her, by day and by night with torches. When she learned from the
Hermionians that Plouton had kidnapped her, enraged at the gods she
left the sky, and in the likeness of a woman made her way to Eleusis
...When Zeus commanded Plouton to send Kore [Persephone] back up,
Plouto gave her a pomegranate seed to eat, as assurance that she would
not remain long with her mother. With no foreknowledge of the outcome
of her act, she consumed it. Askalaphos, the son of Akheron and
Gorgyra, bore witness against her, in punishment for which Demeter
pinned him down with a heavy rock in Haides' realm. But Persephone was
obliged to spend a third of each year with Plouton, and the remainder
of the year among the gods." - Apollodorus, The Library 1.29

"He [Hades] with Demeter's girl [Persephone] captive, through grassy
plains, drawn in a four-yoked car with loosened reins, rapt over the
deep, impelled by love, you flew till Eleusinia's city rose to view:
there, in a wondrous cave obscure and deep, the sacred maid secure
from search you keep, the cave of Atthis, whose wide gates display an
entrance to the kingdoms void of day." - Orphic Hymn 18 to Pluton

"Pluto asked from Iove that he give him in marriage Ceres' daughter
and his own. Iove said that Ceres would not permit her daughter to
live in gloomy Tartarus, but bade him seize her as she was gathering
flowers on Mount Etna, which is in Sicily. While Proserpina
[Persephone] was gathering flowers with Venus, Diana, and Minerva,
Pluto came in his four-horse chariot, and seized her. Afterwards Ceres
obtained from Iove permission for her to stay half of the year with
her, and half with Pluto." - Hyginus, Fabulae 146

In ancient Greece today was held in honor of the goddess Kore, known
to the Romans as Persephone or Proserpina. One day Kore was gathering
flowers in the flelds of Nysa with her companions when she suddenly
noticed a narcissus of striking beauty. She tan to pick it, but as she
bent down to do so the earth gaped open and Hades appeared. He seized
her and dragged her with him down into the depths of the earth.
According to another tradition, the abduction of Kore took place on
the heights near the town of Enna in Sicily. And in the neighbourhood
of Syracuse they showed the place where Hades plunged back into the
earth, hollowing out a vast cavity in the process, since filled by
waters from the spring of Cyane. Colonus in Attica, Hermione in
Argolis, Pheneus in Arcadia and even Crete, likewise claimed for their
territory the honour of this divine abduction.

Demeter meanwhile had heard her child's despairing cry for help.
'Then,' says the poet of the Homeric hymn, 'bitter sorrow seized her
heart...Over her shoulders she threw a sombre veil and flew like a
bird over land and sea, seeking here, seekíng there...' For nine days
the venerable goddess ranged the world, bearing flaming torches in her
hands. At last on Hecate's advice, she went to consult the divine
Helios who revealed to her the name of her daughter's ravísher. 'No
other god is guilty,' he said to her, 'but Zeus himself, who awarded
thy daughter to his brother Hades so that he might call her his
flowering bride.' This revelation overwhelmed Demeter. In rage and
despair she withdrew from Olympus and in the guise of an old woman
sought refuge among the cities of men.

Still inconsolable at the loss of her daughter, Demeter retired to her
temple at Eleusis. There 'she prepared for mankind a cruel and
terrible year: the earth refused to give forth any crop. Then would
the entire human race have perished of cruel, biting hunger if Zeus
had not bcen concerned.' He hastened to send his messenger Iris to
Demeter, but without success. Then all the gods carne one by one to
supplicate the implacable goddess. She stated fiatly that she would
not permit the earth to bear fruit unless she saw her daughter again.
There was no solution except to give in. Zeus commanded Hermes to
descend into the kingdom of Hades and obtain Hades' promise to return
young Kore - who since her arrival in the underworld had taken the
name Persephone - to her mother. Hades complied with the will of Zeus,
but before sending his wife up to earth tempted her to eat a few
pomegranate seeds. Now this fruit was a symbol of marriage and the
effect of eating it was to tender the union of man and wife indissoluble.

When Kore returned to the world of light her mother hastened to her
and embraced her with transports of joy. 'My daughter,' she cried,
'surely thou hast eaten nothing during your imprisonment in the dark
regions of Hades! For if thou hast not eaten thou shalt live with me
on Olympus. But if thou hast, then must thou return to the depths of
the earth!' Kore admitted that she had tasted of the fatal
pomegranate. It seemed that Demeter was again to lose her daughter.

As a compromise Zeus decided that Persephone should live with her
husband for one-third of the year and pass the other two-thirds with
her mother. The august Rhea herself brought this proposal to Demeter
who agreed to it. She set aside her anger and bade the soil again be
fertile. The vast earth was soon covered with leaves and flowers.
Before she returned to Olympus, Demeter taught the kings of the earth
her divine science and initiated them into her sacred mysteries.


Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82740 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-06
Subject: a.d. VIII Id. Ian.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VIII Idus Ianuarius; hic dies fastus aterque est.


"When, therefore, the ditch was finished, the rampart completed and
the necessary work on the houses done, and the situation required that
they should consider also what form of government they were going to
have, Romulus called an assembly of the people by the advice of his
grandfather, who had instructed him what to say, and told them that
the city [Rome], considering that it was newly built, was sufficiently
adorned both with public and private buildings; but he asked them all
to bear in mind that these were not the most valuable things in
cities. For neither in foreign wars, he said, are deep ditches and
high ramparts sufficient to give the inhabitants an undisturbed
assurance of their safety, but guarantee one thing only, namely, that
they shall suffer no harm through being surprised by an incursion of
the enemy; nor, again, when civil commotions afflict the State, do
private houses and dwellings afford anyone a safe retreat. For these
have been contrived by men for the enjoyment of leisure and
tranquillity in their lives, and with them neither those of their
neighbours who plot against them are prevented from doing mischief nor
do those who are plotted against feel any confidence that they are
free from danger; and no city that has gained splendour from these
adornments only has ever yet become prosperous and great for a long
period, nor, again, has any city from a want of magnificence either in
public or in private buildings ever been hindered from becoming great
and prosperous. But it is other things that preserve cities and make
them great from small beginnings: in foreign wars, strength in arms,
which is acquired by courage and exercise; and in civil commotions,
unanimity among the citizens, and this, he showed, could be most
effectually achieved for the commonwealth by the prudent and just life
of each citizen. Those who practise warlike exercises and at the same
time are masters of their passions are the greatest ornaments to their
country, and these are the men who provide both the commonwealth with
impregnable walls and themselves in their private lives with safe
refuges; but men of bravery, justice and the other virtues are the
result of the form of government when this has been established
wisely, and, on the other hand, men who are cowardly, rapacious and
the slaves of base passions are the product of evil institutions. He
added that he was informed by men who were older and had wide
acquaintance with history that of many large colonies planted in
fruitful regions some had been immediately destroyed by falling into
seditions, and others, after holding out for a short time, had been
forced to become subject to their neighbours and to exchange their
more fruitful country for a worse fortune, becoming slaves instead of
free men; while others, few in numbers and settling in places that
were by no means desirable, had continued, in the first place, to be
free themselves, and, in the second place, to command others; and
neither the successes of the smaller colonies nor the misfortunes of
those that were large were due to any other cause than their form of
government. If, therefore, there had been but one mode of life among
all mankind which made cities prosperous, the choosing of it would not
have been difficult for them; but, as it was, he understood there were
many types of government among both the Greeks and barbarians, and out
of all of them he heard three especially commended by those who had
lived under them, and of these systems none was perfect, but each had
some fatal defects inherent in it, so that the choice among them was
difficult. He therefore asked them to deliberate at leisure and say
whether they would be governed by one man or by a few, or whether they
would establish laws and entrust the protection of the public
interests to the whole body of the people. 'And whichever form of
government you establish,' he said, 'I am ready to comply with your
desire, for I neither consider myself unworthy to command nor refuse
to obey. So far as honours are concerned, I am satisfied with those
you have conferred on me, first, by appointing me leader of the
colony, and, again, by giving my name to the city. For of these
neither a foreign war nor civil dissension nor time, that destroyer of
all that is excellent, nor any other stroke of hostile fortune can
deprive me; but both in life and in death these honours will be mien
to enjoy for all time to come.'" - Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "Roman
Antiquities" 2.3


"They stay up the whole night singing songs and playing the flute,
offering these to the images of the gods; and, when the revelries of
the night are over, after cock-crow, they go down with torches into a
subterranean sanctuary and bring p a carved wooden image, which is
laid naked on a litter. on its forehead it has the sign of the cross,
in gold, and on both its hands two other signs of the same shape, and
two more on its knees; and the five signs are all fashioned in gold.
They carry this carved image seven times around the middle of the
temple precincts, to the sound of flutes and tambourines and hymns,
and after the procession they carry it down again into the crypt. But
if you ask them what this mysterious performance cans they answer:
Today, at this hour, the Kore, that is to say the virgin, has given
birth to the Aeon." - St. Epiphanius of Salamis (A.D. 310-402)

"Mistletoe is, however, seldom found on a hard-oak, and when it is
discovered it is gathered with great ceremony, and particularly on the
6th day of the moon (which for those tribes [Druids] constitutes the
beginning of the months and the years) and after every thirty years of
a generation, because it is then rising in strength and not one half
its full size." - Pliny the Elder, Natural History, XVI.xcv.250

Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82741 From: M•IVL•SEVERVS Date: 2011-01-06
Subject: MY BEST WISHES
Salvete omnes,

After a really hard and difficult process, I am sure that this Nova Roma is not
for me any longer.
So, I am resigning as Senator, Proconsul of Mexico, scriba and citizen.
Thank you very much, quirites. Farewell, dear friends.
My best wishes to all those who are not my friends. I hope that they will be
more than satisfied with this Res publica that they have been building.
I am joining my dear friend K. Fabius Buteo Quintilianus in the attempt to build
a Res Publica Romana.
I wish you all a really happy new year!

Vale,
 
M•IVL•SEVERVS

SENATOR
PRO•CONSVL•PROVINCIÆ•MEXICI




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82742 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-06
Subject: Re: MY BEST WISHES
Salve M Iulius, et salvete omnes;

Via con dios, may life bring you many good things, and thank you for your
efforts on our behalf here in Nova Roma. Perhaps the tides of time and
fortune will bring us together again...?

I know I am likely putting a message out to someone who has already left,
but think I need to say a couple of things here, as a cives.

Anytime someone who has given to all of us their time and effort in aid of
building that, which we all hold in common, leaves, it is a loss.

I have never wanted anything more out of Nova Roma than to have a place
where the Genii of my ancestors are honored, in structure, religion and
culture.

As a community, WE have created both good times and bad.
We ARE a product of all our efforts.

There are some who have wanted much more out of Nova Roma than do I.

There have been some, I believe, who looked to Nova Roma to fill some "need"
within themselves, which has not been or is neither the desire of other
individuals, nor the community consensus.

Be that as it may.

I'd just ask one and all to look at why they came here, at the Nova Roma
Statement of Purpose, Constitution, Laws, Sodalities, history (Rome's and
ours), one's own thought on what Rome MEANS...please, consider, and think.

We must all work, if not together, than separately in the same direction,
though together is better.

bene vale - Venator
(who does welcome corrections of usage not in his native English ,-)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82743 From: mjk@datanet.ab.ca Date: 2011-01-06
Subject: Re: MY BEST WISHES
Salvete omnes,

Well spoken Venator! It is indeed always sad to see people who have been around
a long spell pack her in and leave. As I have done with respect to other
organizations I'll carry on as usual here but watch with anticipation how this
new group of Re Publica is going to fare down the road.

Valete bene,

QSP












Quoting Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...>:

> Salve M Iulius, et salvete omnes;
>
> Via con dios, may life bring you many good things, and thank you for your
> efforts on our behalf here in Nova Roma. Perhaps the tides of time and
> fortune will bring us together again...?
>
> I know I am likely putting a message out to someone who has already left,
> but think I need to say a couple of things here, as a cives.
>
> Anytime someone who has given to all of us their time and effort in aid of
> building that, which we all hold in common, leaves, it is a loss.
>
> I have never wanted anything more out of Nova Roma than to have a place
> where the Genii of my ancestors are honored, in structure, religion and
> culture.
>
> As a community, WE have created both good times and bad.
> We ARE a product of all our efforts.
>
> There are some who have wanted much more out of Nova Roma than do I.
>
> There have been some, I believe, who looked to Nova Roma to fill some "need"
> within themselves, which has not been or is neither the desire of other
> individuals, nor the community consensus.
>
> Be that as it may.
>
> I'd just ask one and all to look at why they came here, at the Nova Roma
> Statement of Purpose, Constitution, Laws, Sodalities, history (Rome's and
> ours), one's own thought on what Rome MEANS...please, consider, and think.
>
> We must all work, if not together, than separately in the same direction,
> though together is better.
>
> bene vale - Venator
> (who does welcome corrections of usage not in his native English ,-)
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82744 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-07
Subject: a.d. VII Id. Ian.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VII Idus Ianuarius; haec dies comitialis est.

"Such was the speech that Romulus, following the instructions of his
grandfather, as I have said, made to the people. And they, having
consulted together by themselves, returned this answer: 'We have no
need of a new form of government and we are not going to change the
one which our ancestors approved of as the best and handed down to us.
In this we show both a deference for the judgment of our elders, whose
superior wisdom we recognize in establishing it, and our own
satisfaction with our present condition. For we could not reasonably
complain of this form of government, which has afforded us under our
kings the greatest of human blessings — liberty and the rule over
others. Concerning the form of government, then, this is our
decision; and to of this honour we conceive none has so good a title
as you yourself by reason both of your royal birth and of your merit,
but above all because we have had you as the leader of our colony and
recognize in you great ability and great wisdom, which we have seen
displayed quite as much in your actions as in your words.' Romulus,
hearing this, said it was a great satisfaction to him to be judged
worthy of the kingly office by his fellow men, but that he would not
accept the honour until Heaven, too, had given its sanction by
favourable omens.

And when the people approved, he appointed a day on which he proposed
to consult the auspices concerning the sovereignty; and when the time
was come, he rose at break of day and went forth from his tent. Then,
taking his stand under the open sky in a clear space and first
offering the customary sacrifice, he prayed to King Jupiter and to the
other gods whom he had chosen for the patrons of the colony, that, if
it was their pleasure he should be king of the city, some favourable
signs might appear in the sky. After this prayer a flash of lightning
darted across the sky from the left to the right. Now the Romans look
upon the lightning that passes from the left to the right as a
favourable omen, having been thus instructed either by the Tyrrhenians
or by their own ancestors. Their reason is, in my opinion, that the
best seat and station for those who take the auspices is that which
looks toward the east, from whence both the sun and the moon rise as
well as the planets and fixed stars; and the revolution of the
firmament, by which all things contained in it are sometimes above the
earth and sometimes beneath it, begins its circular motion thence.
Now to those who look toward the east the parts facing toward the
north are on the left and those extending toward the south are on the
right, and the former are by nature more honourable than the latter.
For in the northern parts the pole of the axis upon which the
firmament turns is elevated, and of the five zones which girdle the
sphere the one called the arctic zone is always visible on this side;
whereas in the southern parts the other zone, called the antarctic, is
depressed and invisible on that side. So it is reasonable to assume
that those signs in the heavens and in mid-air are the best which
appear on the best side; and since the parts that are turned toward
the east have preüeminence over the western parts, and, of the eastern
parts themselves, the northern are higher than the southern, the
former would seem to be the best. But some relate that the ancestors
of the Romans from very early times, even before they had learned it
from the Tyrrhenians, looked upon the lightning that came from the
left as a favourable omen. For they say that when Ascanius, the son of
Aeneas, was warred upon and besieged by the Tyrrhenians led by their
king Mezentius, and was upon the point of making a final sally out of
the town, his situation being now desperate, he prayed with
lamentations to Jupiter and to the rest of the gods to encourage this
sally with favourable omens, and thereupon out of a clear sky there
appeared a flash of lightning coming from the left; and as this battle
had the happiest outcome, this sign continued to be regarded as
favourable by his posterity." - Dionysius of Halicarnasus, "Roman
Antiquities" 2.4-5


"The officer who brought them home to Pompey spread amongst the people
no very fair or favourable report of Caesar, and flattered Pompey
himself with false suggestions that he was wished for by Caesar's
army; and though his affairs here were in some embarrassment through
the envy of some, and the ill state of the government, yet there the
army was at his command, and if they once crossed into Italy would
presently declare for him; so weary were they of Caesar's endless
expeditions, and so suspicious of his designs for a monarchy. Upon
this Pompey grew presumptuous, and neglected all warlike preparations
as fearing no danger, and used no other means against him than mere
speeches and votes, for which Caesar cared nothing. And one of his
captains, it is said, who was sent by him to Rome, standing before the
senate-house one day, and being told that the senate would not give
Caesar longer time in his government, clapped his hand on the hilt of
his sword and said, 'But this shall.'

Yet the demands which Caesar made had the fairest colours of equity
imaginable. For he proposed to lay down his arms, and that Pompey
should do the same, and both together should become private men, and
each expect a reward of his services from the public. For that those
who proposed to disarm him, and at the same time to confirm Pompey in
all the power he held, were simply establishing the one in the tyranny
which they accused the other of aiming at. When Curio made these
proposals to the people in Caesar's name, he was loudly applauded, and
some threw garlands towards him, and dismissed him as they do
successful wrestlers, crowned with flowers. Antony, being tribune,
produced a letter sent from Caesar on this occasion, and read it
though the consuls did what they could to oppose it. But Scipio,
Pompey's father-in-law, proposed in the senate, that if Caesar did not
lay down his arms within such a time he should be voted an enemy; and
the consuls putting it to the question, whether Pompey should dismiss
his soldiers, and again, whether Caesar should disband his, very few
assented to the first, but almost all to the latter. But Antony
proposing again, that both should lay down their commissions, all but
a very few agreed to it. Scipio was upon this very violent, and
Lentulus, the consul, cried aloud, that they had need of arms, and not
of suffrages, against a robber; so that the senators for the present
adjourned, and appeared in mourning as a mark of their grief for the
dissension." - Plutarch, Lives, "Caesar"

On this day in 49 B.C., Gaius Iulius Caesar was ordered by the Senate
of Rome to disband his troops. Born with unbridled political ambition
and unsurpassed oratory skills, Julius Caesar manipulated his way to
the position of consul of Rome in 59 BC. After his year of service he
was named governor of Gaul where he amassed a personal fortune and
exhibited his outstanding military skill in subduing the native Celtic
and Germanic tribes. Caesar's popularity with the people soared,
presenting a threat to the power of the Senate and to Pompey, who held
power in Rome. Accordingly, the Senate called upon Caesar to resign
his command and disband his army or risk being declared an "Enemy of
the State". Pompey was entrusted with enforcing this edict - the
foundation for civil war was laid.

It was January 49 B.C., Caesar was staying in the northern Italian
city of Ravenna and he had a decision to make. Either he acquiesced to
the Senate's command or he moved southward to confront Pompey and
plunge the Roman Republic into a bloody civil war. An ancient Roman
law forbade any general from crossing the Rubicon River and entering
Italy proper with a standing army. To do so was treason. This tiny
stream would reveal Caesar's intentions and mark the point of no return.


Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82745 From: Vladimir Date: 2011-01-07
Subject: Curule Aediles EDICTUM 2064-01 : Appointment of Scribae
Statia Cornelia Valeriana Iuliana Aeternia et Aulus Vitellius Celsus omn. s.p.d.

We hereby appoint the following citizens as our scribae, with all the obligations and privileges prescribed by the laws of Nova Roma.

Gaia Maria Caeca is appointed as prima scriba and Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus is appointed primus scriba.

Gaius Marcius Crispus, Aula Decia Scriptrix, Aula Tullia Scholastica, Gaius Lucretius Seneca, Tiberius Claudius Drusus, Tiberia Claudia Lepida are appointed scribae.

No oath shall be required of them.

This edict is effective immediately.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82746 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2011-01-07
Subject: Book recommendation
Gaius Tullius Valerianus omnibus in foro S.P.D.

Salvete omnes! I just finished reading a book I found at my local library,
"Daily Life In Ancient Rome" by Florence Dupont, and I found it to be one of
the most insightful books I've read in years as far as the psychology of the
Roman mind. I would highly recommend it to all Nova Romans, in fact,
although as always, conclusions should be taken *cum grano salis *(I didn't
agree with *all* of Dupont's conclusions, even though I found the book very
insightful) and watch out for Latin errors (e.g. *homini *where *homines *was
intended). No book is perfect. Still worth reading. ISBN
9780631178774<http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3274406.Daily_Life_in_Ancient_Rome>

<http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/3274406.Daily_Life_in_Ancient_Rome>
Valete!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82747 From: Ian McKay Date: 2011-01-07
Subject: Re: [NR_Senaculum] MY BEST WISHES
My Friend Severus;

When I read the first part of your farewell message, I was worried that I would lose contact with you, however, I too have been invited to join my "brother" Christer Edling in his efforts to establish a Roman Cultural activity which is not devoted to political in-fighting, insult, and foul language.

My good friend Cassius, after he was chased out of NR by the insults of a few hardliners has also since then established just such an organization and I was invited to join him as well. The involvement with this new effort of Cassius has been done very well, with he retaining the right to get rid of those who attempt to join the organization in order to disrupt it or to take it over. In my opinion that is what the organizers of NR should have done. However, I understand that one who devotes as much time and effort to setting up such an organization probably doesn't realize the instability, and personal needs of a portion of the outside world whose primary goals in life are to be recognized no matter what they do good, bad, or indifferent. I will undoubtedly be called a "tyrant" again for this belief, as I have already been named by one of my colleagues, as though that was something evil. However, when people have a little more experience with those persons who are looking to disrupt and ruin, tyranny seems a excellent way to put an immediate stop to such nonsense.

So in all likelihood I will be pleased to meet you again at this new effort. I really do not intend to leave NR since I have said that I will not, and I believe a person must stand by his word regardless of the conditions that temporarily are involved on occasion..

All of my Best to you until we meet again in a new place and to you and yours I wish you a Very, Very, Happy, New Year, Bright with Good Health and Opportunity!!!

Respectfully;

Marcus Audens




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82748 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-07
Subject: Praetorial edict: Appointment of primus scriba
Ex Officio Praetoris Nova Roma:

PRAETORIAL EDICT CnIC MCGG 64-03: APPOINTMENT OF PRMIUS SCRIBA

We, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar and Marcus Cornelius Gualterus Graecus, praetores for the year MMDCCLXIV assign praetorial scriba Gaius Marcius Crispus as primus scriba for the Forum Hospitum Novae Romae (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova_Roma_/).

His duties will include, but not be limited to, list management, membership processing, mentoring co-ordination and general supervision of scribae assigned to the Forum Hospitum Novae Romae, in the conduct of their duties within the Forum Hospitum Novae Romae.

This edict takes effect immediately.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82749 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Re: Book recommendation
C. Petronius C. Valeriano s.p.d.,

This book is from the famous serie "La vie quotidienne" (Daily life) and published in France on 1989. In this collection, for the Roman periods, were published this book of Florence Dupont for the Republican period (509 - 27 BC), the very famous book of Jérôme Carcopino for the Imperial period and the book of Bertrand Lançon for the late period (312 - 604 CE). In this collection, the book of Robert Etienne "La vie quotidienne à Pompéi" (Daily life in Pompeii) is fabulous too and very detailed...

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. VI Idus Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82750 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Funny meeting.
C. Petronius Dexter omnibus civibus s.p.d.,

Here a quotation of the Seneca's letter 4 to Lucilius.

"Gaius Caesar iussit Lepidum Dextro tribuno praebere ceruicem..."

(Caligula ordered Lepidus to offer his neck to the tribune Dexter...)

Funny, in this quotation of Seneca both the nicknames I have on Internet "Caligula" and "Dexter" meet together...

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. VI Idus Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82751 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: a.d. VI Id. Ian.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VI Idus Ianuarius; haec dies comitialis est.

"But there was another division again of the men only, which assigned
kindly services and honours in accordance with merit, of which I am
now going to give an account. He distinguished those who were eminent
for their birth, approved for their virtue and wealthy for those
times, provided they already had children, from the obscure, the lowly
and the poor. Those of the lower rank he called "plebeians" (the Greek
would call them demotikoi or "men of the people"), and those of the
higher rank "fathers," either because they had children or from their
distinguished birth or for all these reasons. One may suspect that he
found his model in the system of government which at that time still
prevailed at Athens. For the Athenians had divided their population
into two parts, the eupatridai or "well-born," as they called those
who were of the noble families and powerful by reason of their wealth,
to whom the government of the city was committed, and the agroikoi or
"husbandmen," consisting of the rest of the citizens, who had no voice
in public affairs, though in the course of time these, also, were
admitted to the offices. Those who give the most probable account of
the Roman government say it was for the reasons I have given that
those men were called "fathers" and their posterity "patricians"; but
others, considering the matter in the light of their own envy and
desirous of casting reproach on the city for the ignoble birth of its
founders, say they were not called patricians for the reasons just
cited, but because these men only could point out their fathers — as
if all the rest were fugitives and unable to name free men as their
fathers. As proof of this style cite the fact that, whenever the
kings thought proper to assemble the patricians, the heralds called
them both by their own names and by the names of their fathers,
whereas public servants summoned the plebeians en masse to the
assemblies by the sound of ox horns. But in reality neither the
calling of the patricians by the heralds is any proof of their
nobility nor is the sound of the horn any mark of the obscurity of the
plebeians; but the former was an indication of honour and the latter
of expedition, since it was not possible in a short to call every one
of the multitude by name.

After Romulus had distinguished those of superior rank from their
inferiors, he next established laws by which the duties of each were
prescribed. The patricians were to be priests, magistrates and judges,
and were to assist him in the management of public affairs, devoting
themselves to the business of the city. The plebeians were excused
from these duties, as being unacquainted with them and because of
their small means wanting leisure to attend to them, but were to apply
themselves to agriculture, the breeding of cattle and the exercise of
gainful trades. This was to prevent them from engaging in seditions,
as happens in other cities when either the magistrates mistreat the
lowly, or the common people and the needy envy those in authority. He
placed the plebeians as a trust in the hands of the patricians, by
allowing every plebeian to choose for his patron any patrician whom he
himself wished. In this he improved upon an ancient Greek custom that
was in use among the Thessalians for a long time and among the
Athenians in the beginning. For the former treated their client with
haughtiness, imposing on them duties unbecoming to free men; and
whenever they disobeyed any of their commands, they beat them and
misused them in all other respects as if had been slaves they had
purchased. The Athenians called their clients thetes or "hirelings,"
because they served for hire, and the Thessalians called theirs
penestai or "toilers," by the very name reproaching them with their
condition. But Romulus not only recommended the relationship by a
handsome designation, calling this protection of the poor and lowly a
"patronage," but he also assigned friendly offices to both parties,
thus making the connexion between them a bond of kindness befitting
fellow citizens." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" II.8-9


"O Phales, comrade revel-roaming
Of Bacchus, wanderer of the gloaming,
Of wives and boys the naughty lover,
Here in my home I gladly greet Ye,
The worst of winter nearly over,
And press You with my bold entreaty.

Far happier 'tis to me and sweeter,
O Phales, Phales, some soft glade in,
To woo the saucy, arch, deceiving,
Young Thratty, buxom country maiden,
As from my woodland fells I meet her,
Descending with my kindling laden,
And catch her up and I'll entreat her,
And make her pay the fine for thieving.

O Phales, Phales, come and sup,
And in the morn, to brace you up,
Of joy you'll quaff a jovial cup." - Aristophanes, "Acharnians"
ll.263-78 (tr. B. B. Rogers)

In ancient Greece today was celebrated as the Lesser (or "Rural")
Dionysia, in honor of Dionysis, the god of reverly and wine. He seems
to be a god who has two distinct personae: he was the god of wine,
agriculture and the fertility of Nature; patron god of the Greek
stage, of poetry, song, festivities and parties; promoter of
civilisation; a lawgiver and lover of peace. However, he also
represented the primary features of mystery religions, such as those
practised at Eleusis: ecstasy, transcendence from the mundane world
through physical or spiritual intoxication, as well as initiation into
secret rites. The Lesser Dionysia were celebrated in the month of
Poseidon. This the most ancient festival of all, when even slaves
enjoyed full freedom. There were dramatic contests; Aristotle claimed
(Poet. 1449a) that comedy was born in the Rural Dionysia. The peasants
would assail the bystanders as they rode by in wagons. According to
Plutarch (3.527D), there was a procession of the carriers of a jar of
wine and a vine, with someone leading a he-goat, followed by the
Kanephoros (Basket-bearer) who carried a basket of raisins. Then came
the carriers of an erect, wooden phallus-pole, decorated with ivy and
fillets, and finally the singer of the Phallikon (Phallic Song), which
was addressed to "Phales".

Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82752 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Re: Book recommendation
C. Valerianus C. Petronio S.P.D.

Salve! I know the Carcopino book, but I have not read Lancon. Do you
recommend his book?

Vale!

On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 2:10 AM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>wrote:

>
>
> C. Petronius C. Valeriano s.p.d.,
>
> This book is from the famous serie "La vie quotidienne" (Daily life) and
> published in France on 1989. In this collection, for the Roman periods, were
> published this book of Florence Dupont for the Republican period (509 - 27
> BC), the very famous book of J�r�me Carcopino for the Imperial period and
> the book of Bertrand Lan�on for the late period (312 - 604 CE). In this
> collection, the book of Robert Etienne "La vie quotidienne � Pomp�i" (Daily
> life in Pompeii) is fabulous too and very detailed...
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. VI Idus Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82753 From: Publius Memmius Albucius Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Censorial edict on the composition of the Senate
EDICTUM CENSORIUM IULIUM MEMMIUM DE SENATORIBUS ADLEGENDIS

In view of the paragraph IV. A. 1. d. of the Constitution of Nova Roma, according which the censors have the powers of maintaining the Album Senatorium ;


In view of the results of the last annual elections ;


Considering the last resignations from the Senate, specially the latest by consularis M. Iulius Severus ;


Considering the need, on the beginning of a new year to reinstate the senators who were suspended for absence of payment of their annual tax ;


Considering the legal necessity to limit the number of the senators to 22, in order to respect Nova Roma inc. articles of incorporation ;



Censors Iulius and Memmius edict jointly:


I. The maximal number of senators is set at twenty - two (XXII) senators/directors, specially to comply with both Nova Roma rules and the State of Maine incorporation law (NR Inc. Articles of incorporation).


II. In order to reach this maximal number of 22 senators/directors, the following moves are recorded :

II-a. The following senators, suspended for non-payment of their annual tax in 2763 auc, are reinstated :
C. Popillius Laenas � censorius America Austrorientalis.
K. Fabius Buteo Modianus - censorius Lacus Magni.
A. Moravia Aurelia - quaestoria Americae Austroccidentalis.
Fr. Apulus Caesar - consularis Italiae


II-b. Are sublected into the Senate :
- P. Ullerius Stephanus Venator (Lacus Magni) in regard of his virtues, dignitas, and current consular position
- G. Petronius Dexter (Gallia), in regard of his virtues, dignitas, and skills.



II-c. The following senators are removed from the Senate from their absence or lack of participation to the Senate of Nova Roma :
A. Moravia Aurelia - quaestoria Americae Austroccidentalis.
Fr. Apulus Caesar - consularis Italiae

The Senate of Nova Roma shall be thus composed, from the present day on, of the twenty-two (22) following senators, listed below :

Censorii:
1. D. Iunius Palladius Invictus - Nova Britannia , princeps Senatus
2. L. Cornelius Sulla Felix - America Austroccidentalis
3. C. Flavius Diocletianus - Germania
4. K. Fabius Buteo Modianus - Lacus Magni
5. Ti. Galerius Paulinus - Mediatlantica
6. C. Popillius Laenas - America Austrorientalis

Consulares:
7. Q. Fabius Maximus - California
8. Titus Iulius Sabinus - Dacia
9. M. Curiatius Complutensis � Hispania
10. P. Memmius Albucius - Gallia
11. M. Minucius Audens - Nova Britannia

Praetorii:
12. C. Equitius Cato - Mediatlantica
13. A. Tullia Scholastica - Mediatlantica
14. M. Iulius Perusianus - Italia
15. M. Arminius Maior - Brasilia


Aedilicii:
16. Cn. Iulius Caesar - Canada Ulterior
17. E. Curia Finnica - Thule


Tribunicii:
18. Q. Suetonius Paulinus - Canada Ulterior
19. C. Vipsanius Agrippa - Canada Ulterior
20. G. Petronius Dexter - Gallia



Quaestorii :
21. P. Ullerius Stephanus Venator - Lacus Magni



Privati :
22. M. Lucretius Agricola - Nipponia




The current magistrates with the ius sententiae are senators-consuls Ullerius and Equitius ; senator-praetor Cn. Iulius Caesar and praetor M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus ; senators-censors Iulius and Memmius.





Datum sub manibus nostris a.d. VI Idus Ian. MMDCCLXIV a.u.c, P.Ullerio C. Equitio coss.
Given under our hands this the 8th day of January 2764 a.u.c, in the consulship of P. Ullerius and C. Equitius.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82754 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Congratulations
Ave!

I would like to offer congratulations to our new Princep Senatus Decius
Iunius Palladius Invictus! I cannot think of a more deserving individual to
have the title. Congratulations!

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82755 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Re: Funny meeting.
Ave Petroni

Ah, you did not need Seneca's portentous advice as you had the wisdom to not cut your own head off while tribune!;)

Vale bene,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius Dexter omnibus civibus s.p.d.,
>
> Here a quotation of the Seneca's letter 4 to Lucilius.
>
> "Gaius Caesar iussit Lepidum Dextro tribuno praebere ceruicem..."
>
> (Caligula ordered Lepidus to offer his neck to the tribune Dexter...)
>
> Funny, in this quotation of Seneca both the nicknames I have on Internet "Caligula" and "Dexter" meet together...
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. VI Idus Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82756 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: princeps senatus
Salvete,

I would like to congratulate my friend D. Iunius Palladius Invictus on his selection by the Censors as the princeps senatus. There is no person in Nova Roma more fitting of this high honor.

Valete

Ti. Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82757 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Praetorial edict: Moderation of the Forum Novae Romae (aka Main List
Ex Officio Praetoris Nova Roma:

PRAETORIAL EDICT CnIC MCGG 64-04: MODERATION EDICT FOR THE FORUM NOVAE ROMAE (AKA MAIN LIST OR ML)

We, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar and Marcus Cornelius Gualterus Graecus, praetores for the year MMDCCLXIV, in the hope of promoting a more free and lively, yet well-ordered, setting for the gathering and interaction of the people of Nova Roma within our principal forum, Forum Novae Romae (also known as The Main List or The ML),

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma

promulgate the following edict for civil conduct within the Forum Novae Romae:

1. All discussions are expected to conform to the requirements and restrictions of the Yahoo Terms of Service (ToS) contract by which this forum and its users are bound (available in summary form here: http://groups.yahoo.com/local/guidelines.html).

2. Citizens/users are reminded this is not classified as an adult group and should govern their choice of language accordingly to comply with the restrictions imposed by Yahoo ToS. Additionally citizens/users should be aware that posts that may be considered defamatory, libellous or otherwise injurious, could give rise to a cause of action either within Nova Roma under any current relevant leges, or macronationally in courts of competent jurisdiction and should therefore govern themselves accordingly.

3. Prohibited, disruptive or offensive conduct/language, or a combination thereof, as defined by either Yahoo ToS and/or the Praetors, will be dealt by warnings and/or imposed moderation. The Praetors are not bound by precedent in deciding these matters, which will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.

4. Serious consideration will be taken of any apology or explanation in defense of a behavior for which a penalty may be or has been considered by the Praetura with the understanding that, ultimately, the decision of the Praetores, subject to all legal forms of redress and veto within the Res Publica, will be considered final.

5. All posts will be expected to be signed by the poster's Roman name. Latin openings and closings will be welcome but not mandatory.

This edict shall take effect immediately.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82758 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Re: princeps senatus
Salve et salvete;

On Sat, Jan 8, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Ti Galerius wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> I would like to congratulate my friend D. Iunius Palladius Invictus on his selection by the Censors as the princeps senatus. There is no person in Nova Roma more fitting of this high honor.
>
> Valete
>
> Ti. Galerius Paulinus
>

I will add my "voice" to this.

For many years in the life of Nova Roma thus far, I have considered
Palladius as a voice of reason and honesty. I consider him one of the
people in Nova Roma I MUST meet in person one day.

I am pleased to see this appointment by our esteemed Censors.

--
In amicitia et fide
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Civis, Poeta et Consul

Sodalitas Coquuorum et Cerevisiae Coctorum
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Sodalis_Coq_et_Coq/

(sites subject to occasional updates)
http://www.facebook.com/p.ullerius.stfnus.venator
http://nrfb.korsoft.com/
http://www.catamount-grange-hearth.org/
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82759 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-08
Subject: Re: Praetorial edict: Moderation of the Forum Novae Romae (aka Main
Salve Gn Iulius et M Cornelius Gualterus, Praetors;

Thank you for setting out your policy for overseeing our main list in
which we converse.

--
In amicitia et fide
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Civis, Poeta, et Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82760 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-09
Subject: a.d. V Id. Ian.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem V Idus Ianuarius; hic dies nefastus publicus est.


"As soon as Romulus had regulated these matters he determined to
appoint senators to assist him in administering the public business,
and to this end he chose a hundred men from among the patricians,
selecting them in the following manner. He himself appointed one, the
best out of their whole number, to whom he thought fit to entrust the
government of the city whenever he himself should lead the army beyond
the borders. He next ordered each of the tribes to choose three men
who were then at the age of greatest prudence and were distinguished
by their birth. After these nine were chosen he ordered each curia
likewise to name three patricians who were the most worthy. Then
adding to the first nine, who had been named by the tribes, the ninety
who were chosen by the curiae, and appointing as their head the man he
himself had first selected, he completed the number of a hundred
senators. The name of this council may be expressed in Greek by
gerousia or "council of elders," and it is called by the Romans to
this day; but whether it received its name from the advanced age of
the men who were appointed to it or from their merit, I cannot say for
certain. For the ancients used to call the older men and those of
greatest merit gerontes or "elders." The members of the senate were
called Conscript Fathers, and they retained that name down to my time.
This council, also, was a Greek institution. At any rate, the Greek
kings, both those who inherited the realms of their ancestors and
those who were elected by the people themselves to be their rulers,
had a council composed of the best men, as both Homer and the most
ancient of the poets testify; and the authority of the ancient kings
was not arbitrary and absolute as it is in our days.

After Romulus had also instituted the senatorial body, consisting of
the hundred men, he perceived, we may suppose, that he would also
require a body of young men whose services he could use both for the
guarding of his person and for urgent business, and accordingly he
chose three hundred men, the most robust of body and from the most
illustrious families, whom the curiae named in the same manner that
they had named the senators, each curia choosing ten young men; and
these he kept always about his person. They were all called by one
common name, celeres; according to most writers this was because of
the "celerity" required in the services they were to perform (for
those who are ready and quick at their tasks the Romans call celeres),
but Valerius Antias says that they were thus named after their
commander. For among them, also, the most distinguished man was their
commander; under him were three centurions, and under these in turn
were others who held the inferior commands. In the city these celeres
constantly attended Romulus, armed with spears, and executed his
orders; and on campaigns they charged before him and defended his
person. And as a rule it was they who gave a favourable issue to the
contest, as they were the first to engage in battle and the last of
all to desist. They fought on horseback where there was level ground
favourable for cavalry manoeuvres, and on foot where it was rough and
inconvenient for horses. This custom Romulus borrowed, I believe,
from the Lacedaemonians, having learned that among them, also, three
hundred of the noblest youths attended the kings as their guards and
also as their defenders in war, fighting both on horseback and on
foot." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" 2.12-13


"Quattuor adde dies ductos ex ordine Nonis,
Ianus Agonali luce piandus erit.
nominis esse potest succinctus causa minister,
hostia caelitibus quo feriente cadit,
qui calido strictos tincturus sanguine cultros
semper agatne rogat nec nisi iussus agit.
pars, quia non veniant pecudes, sed agantur, ab actu
nomen Agonalem credit habere diem.
pars putat hoc festum priscis Agnalia dictum,
una sit ut proprio littera dempta loco.
an, quia praevisos in aqua timet hostia cultros,
a pecoris lux est ipsa notata metu?
fas etiam fieri solitis aetate priorum
nomina de ludis Graeca tulisse diem.
et pecus antiquus dicebat agonia sermo;
veraque iudicio est ultima causa meo.
utque ea non certa est, ita rex placare sacrorum
numina lanigerae coniuge debet ovis." - Ovid, Fasti i.318-333

"Add four successive days to the Nones and Janus
Must be propitiated on the Agonal day.
The day may take its name from the girded priest
At whose blow the god's sacrifice is felled:
Always, before he stains the naked blade with hot blood,
He asks if he should (agatne), and won't unless commanded.
Some believe that the day is called Agonal because
The sheep do not come to the altar but are driven (agantur).
Others think the ancients called this festival Agnalia,
`Of the lambs', dropping a letter from its usual place.
Or because the victim fears the knife mirrored in the water,
The day might be so called from the creature's agony?
It may also be that the day has a Greek name
From the games (agones) that were held in former times.
And in ancient speech agonia meant a sheep,
And this last reason in my judgement is the truth.
Though the meaning is uncertain, the king of the rites,
Must appease the gods with the mate of a woolly ewe.
It's called the victim because a victorious hand fells it:
And hostia, sacrifice, from hostile conquered foes.
Cornmeal, and glittering grains of pure salt,
Were once the means for men to placate the gods."

"Ad naturale discrimen civilia vocabula dierum accesserunt. Dicam
prius qui deorum causa, tum qui hominum sunt instituti. Dies Agonales
per quos rex in Regia arietem immolat, dicti ab "agon," eo quod
interrogat minister sacrificii "agone?": nisi si a Graeca lingua, ubi
agon princeps, ab eo quod immolatur a principe civitatis et princeps
gregis immolatur." - Varro, de Lingua Latina VI.3

Today is a celebration of the Agonalia. It was celebrated 3-4 times a
year and is believed to have been instituted by Numa Pompilius.
Although we don't know exactly what the Agonalia was all about, a ram
was sacrificed by the rex sacrificulus in the regia. The Agonalia
was a "feria stativa" or static festival, held on the ninth of January
to honor the god Ianus. The word Agonalia may have been derived from
the question the priest would pose prior to the sacrifice,"Agone?"
meaning, "Shall I slay?" Also included in the Agonalia were piles of
little cakes, "strues", made from spelt ("farro" to the present day
descendants of the Etruscans), cheese, wine, and laurel incense.

Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82761 From: Sabinus Date: 2011-01-09
Subject: Edictum censoris Iulli Sabini de officio censoris.
Edictum I - EDICTUM CENSORIS IULII SABINI DE OFFICIO CENSORIS

1. CAPUT OFFICII CENSORII.
To supervise the activity of the entire cohort censoris.
- Senior scriba: A. Tullia Scholastica.

2. OFFICIUM APPROBATIONUM ET COMMUNICATIONIS.
To distribute applications among the scribes, process them, handle emails which come to the censorial address box, are responsible about the training of new scribes and edit the "Censor protected pages" on the Nova Roma Wiki.
2.1. Caput officii:
- Senior scriba censoris: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
Primary languages: English, Latin, Hungarian.
Secondary language: Italian.
2.2. Scribae officii:
- Senior scriba censoris: C. Cocceius Spinula.
Primary language: English, Portuguese and Spanish.
Secondary language: French.
- Scriba censoris: L. Iulia Aquila
Primary language: English.

4. OFFICIUM CIVIUM NOVORUM.
To process citizenship applications.
4.1. Caput officii:
- Senior scriba censoris: C. Cocceius Spinula.
Primary languages: English, Portuguese and Spanish.
Secondary language: French.
4.2. Scribae officii:
Senior scriba censoris: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
Primary languages: English, Latin, Hungarian.
Secondary language: Italian.
- Senior scriba censoris: P. Annaeus Constantinus Placidus.
Primary language: Italian.
Secondary language: English.
- Scriba censoris: L. Iulia Aquila
Primary languages: English.
Scriba censoris: C. Maria Caeca
Primary languages: English.
- Scriba censoris: Ap. Furius Lupus.
Primary language: Russian.
Secondary language: English.

5. OFFICIUM INVESTIGATIONIS.
To make investigations of the history of Roman names and other historical and religious censorial works.
- Senior scriba censoris: A. Tullia Scholastica.
- Senior scriba censoris: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.
- Scriba censoris: L. Iulia Aquila.

6. CONSILIUM ONOMASTICUM ("Triage" Onomastic Advisory Board)
a) To advise the scribes of the Censorial Officium Approbationum and in onomastic questions. The advice of the "Triage" OAB shall be considered as an order to the Approbation Scribes, unless the Censor disposes of it otherwise.
b) To advise the Censor in onomastic questions. The advice of the "Triage" OAB does not bind the Censor.
6.1 Scribae consilii:
- Consiliaria Onomiastica: A. Tullia Scholastica.
- Consiliarius Onomasticus: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus.

7. Senior scriba censoris Cn. Cornelius Lentulus act as personal assistant of the censor in various matters.

8. No oath shall be required. This edict takes effect immediately.

Given under my hand this 9th day of January 2763 A.U.C. in the consulship of P. Ullerius and C. Equitius coss.

T. Iulius Sabinus
Censor.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82762 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-01-09
Subject: Thank you
Salvete,

It was quite the shock when I opened my email a few minutes ago to discover I had been appointed princeps senatus. I am stunned and humbled by the appointment and the confidence it implies. I shall do my best to live up to the honor.

Nova Roma had a tumultuous year, like few in its history, one that nearly destroyed it. I hope the coming year will be one of restoring what was almost lost, rebuilding the number of our assidui and giving people a reason to join.

Valete,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82763 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-01-09
Subject: Gratulor Princep Senatus Palladius!
Iulia Aquila Iunio Palladio Senatori Principi S.P.D.

Please accept my sincere congratulations!

Vale optime,

Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82764 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-01-09
Subject: Re: Thank you
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Decio Iunio Palladio salutem dicit:


Congratulations on your appointment Senator, it's well earned.

Felicitations!

Vale Optime,
Aeternia

On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 11:36 AM, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> wrote:

>
>
> Salvete,
>
> It was quite the shock when I opened my email a few minutes ago to discover
> I had been appointed princeps senatus. I am stunned and humbled by the
> appointment and the confidence it implies. I shall do my best to live up to
> the honor.
>
> Nova Roma had a tumultuous year, like few in its history, one that nearly
> destroyed it. I hope the coming year will be one of restoring what was
> almost lost, rebuilding the number of our assidui and giving people a reason
> to join.
>
> Valete,
>
> Palladius
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82765 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-09
Subject: Felicitations
Cato Palladio omnibusque in foro SPD

My sincere congratulations of the appointment of the new princeps senatus. It has been given to a most worthy senator and citizen.

Valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82766 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-10
Subject: a.d. IV Id. Ian.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem IV Idus Ianuarius; haec dies comitialis est.


"Having made these regulations, he distinguished the honors and
powers which he wished each class to have. For the king he had
reserved these prerogatives: in the first place, the supremacy in
religious ceremonies and sacrifices and the conduct of everything
relating to the worship of the gods; secondly, the guardianship of the
laws and customs of the country and the general oversight of justice
in all cases, whether founded on the law of nature or the civil law;
he was also the judge in person the greatest crimes, leaving the
lesser to the senators, but seeing to it that no error was made in
their decisions; he was to summon the senate and call together the
popular assembly, to deliver his opinion first and carry out the
decision of the majority. These prerogatives he granted to the king
and, in addition, the absolute command in war. To the senate he
assigned honor and authority as follows: to deliberate and give their
votes concerning everything the king should refer to them, the
decision of the majority to prevail. This also Romulus took over from
the constitution of the Lacedaemonians; for their kings, too, did not
have arbitrary power to do everything they wished, but the gerousia
exercised complete control of public affairs. To the populace he
granted these three privileges: to choose magistrates, to ratify laws,
and to decide concerning war whenever the king left the decision to
them; yet even in these matters their authority was not unrestricted,
since the concurrence of the senate was necessary to give effect to
their decisions. The people did not give their votes all at the same
time, but were summoned to meet by curiae, and whatever was resolved
upon by the majority of the curiae was reported to the senate. But in
our day this practice is reversed, since the senate does not
deliberate upon the resolutions passed by the people, but the people
have full power over the decrees of the senate; and which of the two
customs is better I leave it open to others to determine. By this
division of authority not only were the civil affairs administered in
a prudent and orderly manner, but the business of war also was carried
on with dispatch and strict obedience. For whenever the king thought
proper to lead out his army there was then no necessity for tribunes
to be chosen by tribes, or centurions by centuries, or commanders of
the horse appointed, nor was it necessary for the army to be numbered
or to be divided into centuries or for every man to be assigned to his
appropriate post. But the king gave his orders to the tribunes and
these to the centurions and they in turn to the decurions, each of
whom led out those who were under his command; and whether the whole
army or part of it was called, at a single summons they presented
themselves ready with arms in hand at the designated post." -
Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" 2.14


"When the news came [to Ravenna, where Caesar was staying] that the
interposition of the tribunes in his favor had been utterly rejected,
and that they themselves had fled Rome, he immediately sent forward
some cohorts, yet secretly, to prevent any suspicion of his plan; and
to keep up appearances, he attended the public games and examined the
model of a fencing school which he proposed building, then - as usual
- sat down to table with a large company of friends. However, after
sunset some mules from a near-by mill were put in his carriage, and he
set forward on his journey as privately as possible, and with an
exceedingly scanty retinue. The lights went out. He lost his way and
wandered about a long time - till at last, by help of a guide, whom he
discovered towards daybreak, he proceeded on foot through some narrow
paths, and again reached the road. Coming up with his troops on the
banks of the Rubicon, which was the frontier of his province, he
halted for a while, and revolving in his mind the importance of the
step he meditated, he turned to those about him, saying: 'Still we can
retreat! But once let us pass this little bridge, - and nothing is
left but to fight it out with arms!' Even as he hesitated this
incident occurred. A man of strikingly noble mien and graceful aspect
appeared close at hand, and played upon a pipe. To hear him not merely
some shepherds, but soldiers too came flocking from their posts, and
amongst them some trumpeters. He snatched a trumpet from one of them
and ran to the river with it; then sounding the "Advance!" with a
piercing blast he crossed to the other side. At this Caesar cried out,
'Let us go where the omens of the Gods and the crimes of our enemies
summon us! THE DIE IS NOW CAST!' Accordingly he marched his army over
the river; he showed them the tribunes of the Plebs, who on being
driven from Rome had come to meet him, and in the presence of that
assembly, called on the troops to pledge him their fidelity; tears
springing to his eyes and his garments rent from his bosom." -
Seutonius, "Life of Caesar"

"There were not about him at that time above three hundred horse and
five thousand foot; for the rest of his army, which was left behind
the Alps, was to be brought after him by officers who had received
orders for that purpose. But he thought the first motion towards the
design which he had on foot did not require large forces at present,
and that what was wanted was to make this first step suddenly, and so
to astound his enemies with the boldness of it; as it would be easier,
he thought, to throw them into consternation by doing what they never
anticipated than fairly to conquer them, if he had alarmed them by his
preparations. And therefore he commanded his captains and other
officers to go only with their swords in their hands, without any
other arms, and make themselves masters of Ariminum, a large city of
Gaul, with as little disturbance and bloodshed as possible. He
committed the care of these forces to Hortensius, and himself spent
the day in public as a stander-by and spectator of the gladiators, who
exercised before him. A little before night he attended to his person,
and then went into the hall, and conversed for some time with those be
had invited to supper, till it began to grow dusk, when he rose from
table and made his excuses to the company, begging them to stay till
he came back, having already given private directions to a few
immediate friends that they should follow him, not all the same way,
but some one way, some another. He himself got into one of the hired
carriages, and drove at first another way, but presently turned
towards Ariminum. When he came to the river Rubicon, which parts Gaul
within the Alps from the rest of Italy, his thoughts began to work,
now he was just entering upon the danger, and he wavered much in his
mind when he considered the greatness of the enterprise into which he
was throwing himself. He checked his course and ordered a halt, while
he revolved with himself, and often changed his opinion one way and
the other, without speaking a word. This was when his purposes
fluctuated most; presently he also discussed the matter with his
friends who were about him (of which number Asinius Pollio was one),
computing how many calamities his passing that river would bring upon
mankind, and what a relation of it would be transmitted to posterity.
At last, in a sort of passion, casting aside calculation, and
abandoning himself to what might come, and using the proverb
frequently in their mouths who enter upon dangerous and bold attempts,
"The die is cast," with these words he took the river. Once over, he
used all expedition possible, and before it was day reached Ariminum
and took it. It is said that the night before he passed the river he
had an impious dream, that he was unnaturally familiar with his own
mother." - Plutarch, Lives, "Caesar"

On this day in 49 B.C., Gaius Iulius Caesar crossed over into Italy
with his army, so breaking both the sacred restraint upon a general
against bringing armed men into Rome and destroying forever his
self-proclaimed ideal of truly "restoring" the Republic. He thus
committed himself to conquer or to perish, and "to cross the Rubicon"
now means to take an irrevocable step.


Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82767 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2011-01-10
Subject: Latin phrase of the day., 1/11/2011, 12:00 am
Reminder from:   Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
 
Title:   Latin phrase of the day.
 
Date:   Tuesday January 11, 2011
Time:   All Day
Repeats:   This event repeats every year.
Notes:   Ab urbe condita - From the foundation of the city. (Rome)
 
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82768 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-11
Subject: a.d. III Id. Ian.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem III Idus Ianuarius; hic dies nefastus publicus est.


"By these institutions Romulus sufficiently regulated and suitably
disposed the city both for peace and for war: and he made it large and
populous by the following means. In the first place, he obliged the
inhabitants to bring up all their male children and the first-born of
the females, and forbade them to destroy any children under three
years of age unless they were maimed or monstrous from their very
birth. These he did not forbid their parents to expose, provided they
first showed them to their five nearest neighbours and these also
approved. Against those who disobeyed this law he fixed various
penalties, including the confiscation of half their property.
Secondly, finding that many of the cities in Italy were very badly
governed, both by tyrannies and by oligarchies, he undertook to
welcome and attract to himself the fugitives from these cities, who
were very numerous, paying no regard either to their calamities or to
their fortunes, provided only they were free men. His purpose was to
increase the power of the Romans and to lessen that of their
neighbours; but he invented a specious pretext for his course, making
it appear that he was showing honour to a god. For he consecrated the
place between the Capitol and the citadel which is now called in the
language of the Romans "the space between the two groves" — a term
that was really descriptive at that time of the actual conditions, as
the place was shaded by thick woods on both sides where it joined the
hills — and made it an asylum for suppliants. And built a temple there
— but to what god or divinity he dedicated it I cannot say for certain
— he engaged, under the colour of religion, to protect those who fled
to it from suffering any harm at the hands of their enemies; and if
they chose to remain with him, he promised them citizenship and a
share of the land he should take from the enemy. And people came
flocking thither from all parts, fleeing from their calamities at
home; nor had they afterwards any thought of removing to any other
place, but were held there by daily instances of his sociability and
kindness." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" 2.15


"Then stretching out her arm to the right bank,
She stamped three times, wildly, on the pine deck:
Evander barely held her back with his hand,
Barely stopped her leaping swiftly to land.
`Hail, you gods of the land we sought' she cried,
`And you the place that will give heaven new gods,
And you nymphs of the grove, and crowds of Naiads!
May the sight of you be a good omen for me and my son,
And happy be the foot that touches that shore!
Am I wrong, or will those hills raise mighty walls,
And from this earth all the earth receive its laws?
The whole world is one day promised to these hills:
Who could believe the place held such fate in store?
Soon Trojan ships will touch these shores,
And a woman, Lavinia, shall cause fresh war.
Pallas, dear grandson, why put on that fatal armour?
Put it on! No mean champion will avenge you.
Conquered Troy you will conquer, and rise from your fall,
Your very ruin overwhelms your enemy's houses.
Conquering flames consume Neptune's Ilium!
Will that prevent its ashes rising higher than the world?
Soon pious Aeneas will bring the sacred Penates, and his
Sacred father here: Vesta, receive the gods of Troy!" ...
But the felicitous prophetess, as she lived beloved of the gods,
Now a goddess herself, has this day of Janus' month as hers. - Ovid,
"Fasti" I: The Carmenatalia

Today is the celebration of the Carmentalia, an ancient Roman festival
celebrated every year in honour of the nymph Carmenta or Carmentis,
the mother of Evander. Upon reaching Latium with her son, she climbed
atop a hill and began prophesying and singing. This festival is
celebrated annually on the 11th and the 15th of January, and no other
particulars of it are recorded except that Carmenta was invoked in it
as "Postvorta" and "Antevorta", epithets which had reference to her
power of looking back into the past and forward into the future. Her
name comes from the word "carmen" or "song"; she is said to have
invented both the sacred music of the Romans and the 15-letter
alphabet. After her are named the Caryae (walnut trees) and the
Carytids (nut nymphs).

"Of this goddess little is said in historical times, when the
primitive Latin worship was obscured by a crowd of Grecian and
Oriental deities; but she must have held a leading place in early
times, for she had a special priest, the Flamen Carmentalis, and the
gate near which her altar stood just at the foot of the Capitoline,
between it and the river, was called Carmentalis. Plutarch says that
some supposed Carmenta to be one of the Fates who presided over the
birth of men. The Greek title of the goddess was Themis. Into her
chapel it was not permitted to carry any part of a dead animal, for
example, anything made of leather. It is related that the famous
Marcus Popillius, in the time of the Samnite wars, the first plebeian
who ever obtained the honor of a triumph, was flamen of Carmentis.
When one day he was performing a sacrifice, clad in the laena, or
priestly robe, a tumult arose in the city. Popillius then hastily left
the sacrifice, clad as he was, made his way to the assembly, and
calmed the tumult by his authority and eloquence. In memory of this,
from the loena or robe which he wore, the people gave him the name of
Laenas, which was borne by his descendants; for it was quite out of
order to address the people in any robe but the toga, the distinctive
costume of a Roman citizen." - William S. Walsh, "Curiosities of
Popular Customs And of Rites, Ceremonies, Observances, and
Miscellaneous Antiquities" (1925)


"Quitting his couch, Tithonus' bride will witness
The high priest's rite of Arcadian Carmentis.
The same light received you too, Juturna, Turnus' sister,
There where the Aqua Virgo circles the Campus.
Where shall I find the cause and nature of these rites?
Who will steer my vessel in mid-ocean? - Ovid, "Fasti" I; 11 January

Today is also the celebration of the Iuturnalia, in honor of the
goddess Iuturna, in a festival celebrated on the anniversary of the
day on which her temple was erected in the Campus Martius (Field of
Mars, where soldiers trained, a place dedicated to the Roman god of
war, Mars) by Quintus Lutatius Catulus, a great-great-great uncle of
Julius Caesar.

Iuturna is the goddess of fountains, wells and springs, nymph of the
fountain in Latium, waters of which were famous for their reputed
healing powers. She was a sister of Turnus and supported him against
Aeneas. She was also the mother of Fontus by her husband, Ianus, the
god who rules the month of January. Iuppiter turned Iuturna into a
nymph and gave her a sacred well in Lavinium, Latium, as well as
another one near the temple to Vesta in the Forum Romanum. The second
well was called Lacus Iuturnae, and was reputed to be the well at
which the Dioscuri refreshed their horses on the way to announce the
victory at the Battle of Lake Regillus (496 B.C.).


Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82769 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2011-01-11
Subject: Latin phrase of the day, 1/12/2011, 12:00 am
Reminder from:   Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
 
Title:   Latin phrase of the day
 
Date:   Wednesday January 12, 2011
Time:   12:00 am - 1:00 am
Repeats:   This event repeats annually on the second Wednesday.
Notes:   Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit - To boldly go where no man has gone before
 
Copyright © 2011  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82770 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-11
Subject: Re: Latin phrase of the day, 1/12/2011, 12:00 am
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis (si sint) S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Reminder from: Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/cal>
>
> Title: Latin phrase of the day
>
> Date: Wednesday January 12, 2011
> Time: 12:00 am - 1:00 am
> Repeats: This event repeats annually on the second Wednesday.
> Notes: Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit - To boldly go where no man has gone
> before
>
>
> ATS: (in exam correcting mode, as that is what I am doing these days):
> There is no word translating boldly here, and the infinitive seems perfectly
> fine to translate to go. Now if we want a purpose clause, i.e., In order to
> go, something on the order of Ut eamus [in order for us to go, that we may go]
> or Ut eant [in order that they may go] seems better, though the periphrastic
> conjugation [above] might be trammeled into such duty. Our Avitus prefers the
> more standard ut + the subjunctive, and he is hardly alone.
>
> Valete.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82771 From: A. Domitia Date: 2011-01-11
Subject: Oath of Quaestrix
I, Rachel Fainbaum/Appia Domitia Taura do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Appia Domitia Taura swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Rachel Fainbaum/Appia Domitia Taura swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Rachel Fainbaum/Appia Domitia Taura swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Rachel Fainbaum/Appia Domitia Taura further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of quaestrix to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of quaestrix and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.





Ap.Domitia Taura
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82772 From: L. Lucretius Caupo Date: 2011-01-11
Subject: Re: Latin phrase of the day, 1/12/2011, 12:00 am
Caupo Scholasticae omnibusque S.P.D.



(Immo quiris civisque bonae voluntatis sum)



Here's a challenge for you: In later iterations of Star Trek, political
correctness dictated that the phrase be altered as follows : "To go where no
human has gone before" (since the Enterprise did encounter space aliens on
various planets). 'Nemo' is pc, but not the equivalent. I'm happy with the
straightforward infinitive 'ire', but how would you incorporate 'boldly' and
'humans' to come up with the definitive Latin translation that Kirk would
approve of (since Latin most certainly would have endured until his
century)?



Salve et salvete,



L. LUCRETIVS CAVPO







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82773 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-12
Subject: prid. Id. Ian.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est pridie Idus Ianuarius; haec dies comitialis est.


"It is not only these institutions of Romulus that I admire, but also
those which I am going to relate. He understood that the good
government of cities was due to certain causes which all statesmen
prate of but few succeed in making effective: first, the favour of the
gods, the enjoyment of which gives success to men's every enterprise;
next, moderation and justice, as a result of which the citizens, being
less disposed to injure one another, are more harmonious, and make
honour, rather than the most shameful pleasures, the measure of their
happiness; and, lastly, bravery in war, which renders the other
virtues also useful to their possessors. And he thought that none of
these advantages is the effect of chance, but recognized that good
laws and the emulation of worthy pursuits render a State pious,
temperate, devoted to justice, and brave in war. He took great care,
therefore, to encourage these, beginning with the worship of the gods
and genii. He established temples, sacred precincts and altars,
arranged for the setting up of statues, determined the representations
and symbols of the gods, and declared their powers, the beneficent
gifts which they have made to mankind, the particular festivals that
should be celebrated in honour of each god or genius, the sacrifices
with which they delight to be honoured by men, as well as the
holidays, festal assemblies, days of rest, and everything alike of
that nature, in all of which he followed the best customs in use among
the Greeks. But he rejected all the traditional myths concerning the
gods that contain blasphemies or calumnies against them, looking upon
these as wicked, useless and indecent, and unworthy, not only of the
gods, but even of good men; and he accustomed people both to think and
to speak the best of the gods and to attribute to them no conduct
unworthy of their blessed nature.

Indeed, there is no tradition among the Romans either of Caelus being
castrated by his own sons or of Saturn destroying his own offspring to
secure himself from their attempts or of Jupiter dethroning Saturn and
confining his own father in the dungeon of Tartarus, or, indeed, of
wars, wounds, or bonds of the gods, or of their servitude among men.
And no festival is observed among them as a day of mourning or by the
wearing of black garments and the beating of breasts and the
lamentations of women because of the disappearance of deities, such as
the Greeks perform in commemorating the rape of Persephone and the
adventures of Dionysus and all the other things of like nature. And
one will see among them, even though their manners are now corrupted,
no ecstatic transports, no Corybantic frenzies, no begging under the
colour of religion, no bacchanals or secret mysteries, no all-night
vigils of men and women together in the temples, nor any other mummery
of this kind; but alike in all their words and actions with respect to
the gods a reverence is shown such as is seen am neither Greeks nor
barbarians. And — the thing which I myself have marvelled at most —
notwithstanding the influx into Rome of innumerable nations which are
under every necessity of worshipping their ancestral gods according to
the customs of their respective countries, yet the city has never
officially adopted any of those foreign practices, as has been the
experience of many cities in the past; but, even though she has, in
pursuance of oracles, introduced certain rites from abroad, she
celebrates them in accordance with her own traditions, after banishing
all fabulous clap-trap. The rites of the Idaean goddess [the Magna
Mater] are a case in point; for the praetors perform sacrifices and
celebrated games in her honour every year according to the Roman
customs, but the priest and priestess of the goddess are Phrygians,
and it is they who carry her image in procession through the city,
begging alms in her name according to their custom, and wearing
figures upon their breasts and striking their timbrels while their
followers play tunes upon their flutes in honour of the Mother of the
Gods. But by a law and decree of the senate no native Roman walks in
procession through the city arrayed in a parti-coloured robe, begging
alms or escorted by flute-players, or worships the god with the
Phrygian ceremonies. So cautious are they about admitting any foreign
religious customs and so great is their aversion to all pompous
display that is wanting in decorum." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus,
"Roman Antiquities" 2.18, 19


"See, Hercules drives the Erythean cattle here:
Travelling a long track through the world:
And while he is entertained in the Tegean house,
The untended cattle wander the wide acres.
It was morning: woken from his sleep the Tyrinthian
Saw that two bulls were missing from the herd.
Seeking, he found no trace of the silently stolen beasts:
Fierce Cacus had dragged them backwards into his cave,
Cacus the infamous terror of the Aventine woods,
No slight evil to neighbours and travellers.
His aspect was grim, his body huge, with strength
To match: the monster's father was Mulciber.
He housed in a vast cavern with deep recesses,
So hidden the wild creatures could barely find it.
Over the entrance hung human arms and skulls,
And the ground bristled with whitened bones.
Jupiter's son was leaving, that part of his herd lost,
When the stolen cattle lowed loudly.
`I am recalled" he said, and following the sound,
As avenger, came through the woods to the evil cave,
Cacus had blocked the entrance with a piece of the hill:
Ten yoked oxen could scarcely have moved it.
Hercules leant with his shoulders, on which the world had rested,
And loosened that vast bulk with the pressure.
A crash that troubled the air followed its toppling,
And the ground subsided under the falling weight.
Cacus at first fought hand to hand, and waged war,
Ferociously, with logs and boulders.
When that failed, beaten, he tried his father's tricks
And vomited roaring flames from his mouth:
You'd think Typhoeus breathed at every blast,
And sudden flares were hurled from Etna's fires.
Hercules anticipated him, raised his triple-knotted club,
And swung it three, then four times, in his adversary's face.
Cacus fell, vomiting smoke mingled with blood,
And beat at the ground, in dying, with his chest.
The victor offered one of the bulls to you, Jupiter,
And invited Evander and his countrymen to the feast,
And himself set up an altar, called Maxima, the Mightiest,
Where that part of the city takes its name from an ox." - Ovid, Fasti I

"And the daughter of Ocean, Callirrhoe... bore a son who was the
strongest of all men, Geryones, whom mighty Heracles killed in
sea-girt Erythea for the sake of his shambling oxen." - Hesiod,
Theogony 980

On or about today one of the lacunae in the Twelve Labors of Hercules
is celebrated by the Romans. Eurystheus ordered the hero to bring him
the cattle of the monster Geryon. Geryon was the son of Chrysaor and
Callirrhoe. Chrysaor had sprung from the body of the Gorgon Medusa
after Perseus beheaded her, and Callirrhoe was the daughter of two
Titans, Oceanus and Tethys. With such distinguished lineage, it is no
surprise that Geryon himself was quite unique. It seems that Geryon
had three heads and three sets of legs all joined at the waist.

The stealing of the cattle was not such a difficult task compared to
the trouble Hercules had bringing the herd back to Greece. In Liguria,
two sons of Poseidon, the god of the sea, tried to steal the cattle,
so he killed them. At Rhegium, a bull got loose and jumped into the
sea. The bull swam to Sicily and then made its way to the neighboring
country. The native word for bull was "italus," and so the country
came to be named after the bull, and was called Italy.

When Hercules was passing what would become the City of Rome, he
encountered Cacus. Cacus was a huge giant, who inhabited a cave on
Mount Aventine (one of the seven hills of Rome), and plundered the
surrounding country. Cacus stole part of the herd of cattle while the
hero slept. That their foot-prints might not serve to show where they
had been driven, he dragged them backward by their tails to his cave
(as Mercury had attempted to fool Apollo), so their tracks all seemed
to show that they had gone in the opposite direction. Hercules was
deceived by this stratagem, and would have failed to find his oxen, if
it had not happened that in driving the remainder of the herd past the
cave where the stolen ones were concealed, those within began to low,
and were thus discovered. Hercules promptly bludgeoned Cacus and
continued his trek with the cattle.


Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82774 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-12
Subject: Re: Latin phrase of the day, 1/12/2011, 12:00 am
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Lucretio Cauponi quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Caupo Scholasticae omnibusque, praesertim Latineloquentibus, S.P.D.
>
> (Immo quiris civisque bonae voluntatis sum)
>
> ATS: Bene! Infelicissime, autem, nonnulli nuperrime discesserunt at isti
> malae voluntatis manent. Nonnulli me oderunt.
>
> Here's a challenge for you: In later iterations of Star Trek, political
> correctness dictated that the phrase be altered as follows : "To go where no
> human has gone before" (since the Enterprise did encounter space aliens on
> various planets). 'Nemo' is pc, but not the equivalent. I'm happy with the
> straightforward infinitive 'ire', but how would you incorporate 'boldly' and
> 'humans' to come up with the definitive Latin translation that Kirk would
> approve of (since Latin most certainly would have endured until his
> century)?
>
> ATS: Well, to me nemo means no one, not just no man (i.e., no male), so
> it could stay as is. If we had to say humans, we could use homines, which is
> sufficiently generic, if somewhat colorless, so nulli homines, or perhaps
> nulli humani, with the understanding that there the masculine encompasses the
> feminine, as is normal in IE languages. Of course we must add fortiter, or
> possibly audacter, though to me the latter has a less positive connotation.
> Nemo sounds better, and the flow is better with it. Perhaps, then, Fortiter
> ire quo nemo anteiit. One could also do Quo humani numquam ierunt.
>
> In order to know what to do with eo / ire, one must almost have the
> preceding phrase in hand to know what was intended: is it (Our purpose is) to
> boldly go (in English, we call that a split infinitive, and many English
> teachers suffer when coming upon them), or is the intent of this phrase
> something else, say, (We intend) to boldly go...
>
> Latin must have endured up until Kirk¹s century; after all, even later
> Jean-Luc became known as Locutus for a while, though the grammar seems to have
> been, er, messed up a bit there. He might not have liked being a past
> participle, especially passive in form, if not in meaning. ;-) Of course he
> might not have liked being Borg at all...
>
> From his testimony, too, we know that Shakespeare survived until the days
> of the Enterprise...along with Earl Grey.
>
> Make it so...
>
>
> Salve et salvete,
>
> L. LUCRETIVS CAVPO
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82775 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-13
Subject: IDIBUS IANURIIS
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est Idibus Ianuariis; hic dies nefastus publicus est.

"On the Ides, in Jove's temple, the chaste priest (the Flamen Dialis)
Offers to the flames the entrails of a gelded ram:
All the provinces were returned to our people,
And your grandfather was given the name Augustus.
Read the legends on wax images in noble halls,
Such titles were never bestowed on men before.
Here Africa named her conqueror after herself:
Another witnesses to Isaurian or Cretan power tamed:
This makes glory from Numidians, that Messana,
While the next drew his fame from Numantia.
Sacred things are called august by the senators...
And so are temples duly dedicated by priestly hands.
From the same root comes the word augury,
And Jupiter augments things by his power.
May he augment our leader's empire and his years,
And may the oak-leaf crown protect his doors.
By the god's auspices, may the father's omens
Attend the heir of so great a name, when he rules the world." - Ovid,
Fasti I

"After he had made these regulations concerning the ministers of the
gods, he again, as I have stated, assigned the sacrifices in an
appropriate manner to the various curiae, appointing for each of them
gods and genii whom they were always to worship, and determined the
expenditures for the sacrifices, which were to be paid to them out of
the public treasury. The members of each curia performed their
appointed sacrifices together with their own priests, and on holy days
they feasted together at their common table. For a banqueting-hall had
been built for each curia, and in it there was consecrated, just as in
the Greek prytanea, a common table for all the members of the curia.
These banqueting-halls had the same name as the curiae themselves, and
are called so to our day. This institution, it seems to me, Romulus
took over from the practice of the Lacedaemonians in the case of their
phiditia, which were then the vogue. It would seem that Lycurgus, who
had learned the institution from the Cretans, introduced it at Sparta
to the great advantage of his country; for he thereby in time of peace
directed the citizens' lives toward frugality and temperance in their
daily repasts, and in time of war inspired every man with a sense of
shame and concern not to forsake his comrade with whom he had offered
libations and sacrifices and shared in common rites. And not alone
for his wisdom in these matters does Romulus deserve praise, but also
for the frugality of the sacrifices that he appointed for the
honouring of the gods, the greatest part of which, if not all,
remained to my day, being still performed in the ancient manner. At
any rate, I myself have seen in the sacred edifices repasts set before
the gods upon ancient wooden tables, in baskets and small earthen
plates, consisting of barley bread, cakes and spelt, with the
first-offerings of some fruits, and other things of like nature,
simple, cheap, and devoid of all vulgar display. I have seen also the
libation wines that had been mixed, not in silver and gold vessels,
but in little earthen cups and jugs, and I have greatly admired these
men for adhering to the customs of their ancestors and not
degenerating from their ancient rites into a boastful magnificence.
There are, it is true, other institutions, worthy to be both
remembered and related, which were established by Numa Pompilius, who
ruled the city after Romulus, a man of consummate wisdom and of rare
sagacity in interpreting the will of the gods, and of them I shall
speak later; and yet others were added by Tullus Hostilius, the second
king after Romulus, and by all the kings who followed him. But the
seeds of them were sown and the foundations laid by Romulus, who
established the principal rites of their religion." - Dionysius of
Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" 2.23


"Then he [Numa Pompilius] built temples. First of all he built a
temple for the Goddess of the sacred fire--Vesta she was named. Her
temple was circular, and the everlasting fire within it was tended by
virgins; as long as they in purity tended Vesta's fire the fortunes of
Rome might not sink down. And after he had built the Temple of Vesta
he built the Temple of Ianus. As the God Ianus has two faces so this
temple has two gates: they stand open in time of war and are closed in
time of peace. Very seldom in later times were the gates of the Temple
of Ianus shut, but in Numa's time the gates were never seen open--no,
not for a single day: for the space of over two score years the gates
were unopened. Wars were not waged in those days. And not only were
the people of Rome made quiet by Numa's influence, but the people of
the neighbouring states and cities were made quiet too; they had
peace; their lives were employed in the tilling of the soil, in the
rearing of their children, and in the worship of the Gods. Of these
days it was said:

"Rust eats the pointed spear and two-edged sword.
No more is heard the trumpet's brazen roar;
Sweet sleep is banished from our eyes no more.

Numa then arranged the months of the year.
He put January, which is
the month of the God of Peace, Ianus, first..." - Padraic Colum,
"Orpheus Myths of the World" p.115


The celebration of the Carmentalia continues. In the Old (Iulian)
Calendar, today was New Year's day.


"The Julian calendar, standardized in 46 B.C.E., was revised by Pope
Gregory XIII in 1582 C.E. The length of the year in the Julian
calendar was figured at 365.25 days, which is greater than the correct
length of 365.2422 days by 0.0078 days. The error accumulated over
time and Pope Gregory XIII revised the calendar by omitting the
accumulated portion which totaled 10 days at the time, from the month
of October, 1582. He ordained that Thursday, October 4, be followed by
Friday, October 15. The leap-year rule was also revised, making the
century years 1700, 1800, 1900, 2100, 2200, etc., non-leap years. The
years 1600, 2000, 2400, etc. which are divisible by 400 were made into
leap years. In this way, the average year-length of the calendar was
brought down to 365.2425 days, the residual error now being 1 day
every 3300 years."

Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82776 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-14
Subject: a.d. XIX Kal. Feb.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XIX Kalendas Februarius; hic dies endotercisus aterque est.

"Observing that the means by which the whole body of citizens, the
greater part of whom are hard to guide, can be induced to lead a life
of moderation, to prefer justice to gain, to cultivate perseverance in
hardships, and to look upon nothing as more valuable than virtue, si
not oral instruction, but the habitual practice of such employments as
lead to each virtue, and knowing that the great mass of men come to
practise them through necessity rather than choice, and hence, if
there is nothing to restrain them, return to their natural
disposition, he appointed slaves and foreigners to exercise those
trades that are sedentary and mechanical and promote shameful
passions, looking upon them as the destroyers and corruptors both of
the bodies and souls of all who practise them; and such trades were
for a very long time held in disgrace by the Romans and were carried
on by none of the native-born citizens. The only employments he left
to free men were two, agriculture and warfare; for he observed that
men so employed become masters of their appetite, are less entangled
in illicit love affairs, and follow that kind of covetousness only
which leads them, not to injure one another, but to enrich themselves
at the expense of the enemy. But, as he regarded each of these
occupations, when separate from the other, as incomplete and conducive
to fault-finding, instead of appointing one part of the men to till
the land and the other to lay waste the enemy's country, according to
the practice of the Lacedaemonians, he ordered the same persons to
exercise the employments both of husbandmen and soldiers. In time of
peace he accustomed them to remain at their tasks in the country,
except when it was necessary for them to come to market, upon which
occasions they were to meet in the city in order to traffic, and to
that end he appointed every ninth day for the markets; and when war
came he taught them to perform the duties of soldiers and not to yield
to others either in the hardships or advantages that war brought. For
he divided equally among them the lands, slaves and money that he took
from the enemy, and thus caused them to take part cheerfully in his
campaigns.

In the case of wrongs committed by the citizens against one another he
did not permit the trials to be delayed, but caused them to be held
promptly, sometimes deciding the suits himself and sometimes referring
them to others; and he proportioned the punishment to the magnitude of
the crime. Observing, also, that nothing restrains men from all evil
actions so effectually as fear, he contrived many things to inspire
it, such as the place where he sat in judgment in the most conspicuous
part of the Forum, the very formidable appearance of the soldiers who
attended him, three hundred in number, and the rods and axes borne by
twelve men, who scourged in the Forum those whose offences deserved it
and beheaded others in public who were guilty of the greatest crimes.
Such then, was the general character of the government established by
Romulus; the details I have mentioned are sufficient to enable one to
form a judgment of the rest." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "Roman
Antiquities" 2.28-29


The Carmentalia continues today.


"From the country of the East,
Came this strong and handsome beast:
This able ass, beyond compare,
Heavy loads and packs to bear.
Now, seignor ass, a noble bray,
Thy beauteous mouth at large display;
Abundant food our hay-lofts yield,
And oats abundant load the field.
Hee-haw! Hee-haw! Hee-haw!" - traditional English tune

On this day the "Festival of the Ass" was celebrated in commemoration
of the flight of Ioseph, Maria and Iesus out of Palestine and into
Egypt. The escape of the holy family of Iesus into Egypt was
represented by a beautiful girl holding a child at her breast, and
seated on an ass, splendidly decorated with trappings of
gold-embroidered cloth. After the procession, the ass was taken to the
church's high altar, where it remained during the religious services.
In place of the usual responses, the congregation brayed like donkeys.
At the end, the priest brayed three times instead of pronouncing the
benediction. He was answered by a general hee-hawing. The Festival of
the Ass, and other religious burlesques of a similar description,
derive their origin from Constantinople; being instituted by the
patriarch Theophylact, with the design of weaning the people's minds
from pagan ceremonies, particularly the Bacchanalean and calendary
observances, by the substitution of Christian spectacles, partaking of
a similar spirit of licentiousness, a principle of accommodation to
the manners and prejudices of an ignorant people, which led to a still
further adoption of rites, more or less imitated from the pagans.
According to the pagan mythology, an ass, by its braying, saved Vesta
from brutal violence, and, in consequence, "the coronation of the ass"
formed part of the ceremonial feast of the chaste goddess.

Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82778 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-14
Subject: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Ex officio consularis Gai Equitii Catoni

The auspices having been taken, and interpreted as favorable by the augur Fabius
Buteo Modianus, I hereby announce my intent to call the Senate of Nova Roma to
order on a.d. XV Kalendas Februarius (18 January).

The session shall consider, but is not limited to, consideration of our actions
in and governance of the provinces, legal activity that has taken place in the
past, the appointment of quaestors, the appointment of a CFO, and other issues
regarding our by-laws.

Optime valete,

C. Equitius Cato
Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82779 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-14
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Salvete Omnes;

Having seen what my colleague proposes, I support his Senate Call.

Valete Bene - Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82780 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-15
Subject: a.d. XVIII Kal. Feb.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XVIII Kalendas Februarius; hic dies nefastus publicus est.


"The other deeds reported of this man, both in his wars and at home,
which may be thought deserving of mention in a history are as follows.
Inasmuch as many nations that were both numerous and brave in war
dwelt round about Rome and none of them was friendly to the Romans, he
desired to conciliate them by intermarriages, which, in the opinion of
the ancients, was the surest method of cementing friendships; but
considering that the cities in question would not of their own accord
untie with the Romans, who were just getting settled together in one
city, and who neither were powerful by reason of their wealth nor had
performed any brilliant exploit, but that they would yield to force if
no insolence accompanied such compulsion, he determined, with the
approval of Numitor, his grandfather, to bring about the desired
intermarriages by a wholesale seizure of virgins. After he had taken
this resolution, he first made a vow to the god who presides over
secret counsels to celebrate sacrifices and festivals every year if
his enterprise should succeed. Then, having laid his plan before the
senate and gaining their approval, he announced that he would hold a
festival and general assemblage in honour of Neptune, and he sent word
round about to the nearest cities, inviting all who wished to do so to
be present at the assemblage and to take part in the increases; for he
was going to hold contests of all sorts, both between horses and
between men. And when many strangers came with their wives and
children to the festival, he first offered the sacrifices to Neptune
and held the contests: then, on the last day, on which he was to
dismiss the assemblage, he ordered the young men, when he himself
should raise the signal, to seize all the virgins who had come to the
spectacle, each group taking those they should first encounter, to
keep them that night without violating their chastity and bring them
to him the next day. So the young men divided themselves into
several groups, and as soon as they saw the signal raised, fell to
seizing the virgins; and straightway the strangers were in an uproar
and fled, suspecting some greater mischief. The next day, when the
virgins were brought before Romulus, he comforted them in their
despair with the assurance that they had been seized, not out of
wantonness, but for the purpose of marriage; for he pointed out that
this was an ancient Greek custom and that of all methods of
contracting marriages for women it was the most illustrious, and he
asked them to cherish those whom Fortune had given them for their
husbands. Then counting them and finding their number to be six
hundred and eighty-three, he chose an equal number of unmarried men to
whom he united them according to the customs of each woman's country,
basing the marriages on a communion of fire and water, in the same
manner as marriages are performed even down to our times." - Dionysius
of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" 2.30


"Such were the formidable allies that ranged themselves against Æneas.
It was night and he lay stretched in sleep on the bank of the river
under the open heavens. The god of the stream, Father Tiber. seemed to
raise his head above the willows and to say,

'O goddess–born, destined possessor of the Latin realms, this is the
promised land, here is to be your home, here shall terminate the
hostility of the heavenly powers, if only you faithfully persevere.
There are friends not far distant. Prepare your boats and row up my
stream; I will lead you to Evander, the Arcadian chief. He has long
been at strife with Turnus and the Rutulians, and is prepared to
become an ally of yours. Rise! offer your vows to Juno, and deprecate
her anger. When you have achieved your victory then think of me.'

Aeneas woke and paid immediate obedience to the friendly vision. He
sacrificed to Juno, and invoked the god of the river and all his
tributary fountains to lend their aid. Then for the first time a
vessel filled with armed warriors floated on the stream of the Tiber.
The river smoothed its waves, and bade its current flow gently, while,
impelled by the vigorous strokes of the rowers, the vessels shot
rapidly up the stream. About the middle of the day they came in sight
of the scattered buildings of the infant town, where in after times
the proud city of Rome grew, whose glory reached the skies. By chance
the old king, Evander, was that day celebrating annual solemnities in
honour of Hercules and all the gods. Pallas, his son, and all the
chiefs of the little commonwealth stood by. When they saw the tall
ship gliding onward near the wood, they were alarmed at the sight, and
rose from the tables. But Pallas forbade the solemnities to be
interrupted, and seizing a weapon, stepped forward to the river's
bank. He called aloud, demanding who they were, and what their object.
Aeneas, holding forth an olive–branch, replied,

'We are Trojans, friends to you, and enemies to the Rutulians. We seek
Evander, and offer to join our arms with yours.'

Pallas, in amaze at the sound of so great a name, invited them to
land, and when Aeneas touched the shore he seized his hand, and held
it long in friendly grasp. Proceeding through the wood, they joined
the king and his party and were most favourably received. Seats were
provided for them at the tables, and the repast proceeded." -
Bullfinch's Mythology, "Evander"


"When the third sun looks back on the past Ides,
The rites of Carmenta, the Parrhasian goddess, are repeated.
Formerly the Ausonian mothers drove in carriages (carpenta)
(These I think were named after Evander's mother).
The honour was later taken from them, so every woman
Vowed not to renew their ungrateful husband's line,
And to avoid giving birth, unwisely, she expelled
Her womb's growing burden, using unpredictable force.
They say the senate reproved the wives for their coldness,
But restored the right which had been taken from them:
And they ordered two like festivals for the Tegean mother,
To promote the birth of both boys and girls.
It is not lawful to take leather into her shrine,
Lest the pure hearths are defiled by sacrifice.
If you love ancient ritual, listen to the prayers,
And you'll hear names you've never heard before.
They placate Porrima and Postverta, whether sisters,
Maenalian goddess, or companions in your exile:
The one thought to sing of what happened long ago (porro),
The other of what is to happen hereafter (venturum postmodo)." - Ovid,
Fasti I

Today is the last day of the Carmentalia, the festival dedicated to
Carmenta (or Carmentis), mother of Evander.


Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82781 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-15
Subject: Greetings all...
Salve et Salvete;

As some of you know, I have had some incidents the past three months
with which to deal in my personal life: death of my family's
patriarch, illnesses (personal and family) and an accident where my
vehicle was totaled (but I was physically unhurt). So, I will be the
first one to admit that my attention has been split, and my thinking
not all of one piece. However, as of the purchase of a new vehicle
last night, I believe the decks are now cleared for action.

I have been conversing with a number of folks, especially my
colleague, about several pressing issues, many administrative, which
we are working to solve. From what I have received thus far, I think
that the magistrates are going to work together for the betterment of
Nova Roma.

I just wanted to send a little note out to you, who make Nova Roma
possible, please bear with us and continue to share your knowledge and
talents.

Those of you who live close to each other, I ask that you find a way
to meet in person on occasion.

For many years in my own Faith Community, primary contacts were by
"snail mail," telephone and finally the Internet. We went through
(sometimes still do) the flares of personality we have seen here. A
person with one idea of the direction for the group "crossing swords"
with those of a different mindset, when the goal is exactly the
same...

Much of this has been mitigated over the years by the increasing
number of face-to-face contacts. The gatherings started small; one I
sponsored had just over 30 at the first and almost 200 at the largest.
Big or small, once you sit, share a meal, converse in person, that
dance of photons on the screen takes on a different meaning. You can
see and hear the person behind the words, and see how they may differ
in detail, they do not differ in purpose.

That part of my life, I've been involved for almost 22 years and it
has had over 40 to build here in the US.

Nova Roma is young yet, in the building process. We have had and will
have "growing pains," but I truly believe we can work together in many
ways towards the aim of a community in which individual
interpretations of Romanitas can live together, under the guidance of
the examples we have from Roma Antiqua.

Nostrum ago beatus res publica!

--
In amicitia et fide
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Consul, Civis et Poeta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82782 From: Gaia Valeria Pulchra Date: 2011-01-15
Subject: The Coming Games and YOU!
Salvete Omnes!

I've wanted to send this message out for a while but I've been snowed in up
here in Rhode island!

I've been thinking about the games coming in April and in November. I
thought I would reach out to everyone and see if I could get some feedback!
I have some ideas that I'd like to throw out to everyone. Fist, for the
chariot races, would anyone be interested in seeing a slide show of the
races, done with miniatures on a grid? Maybe with some commentary on
highlights? Does anyone feel like they would like a visual to go with the
chariot race results?

In regard to the gladiatorial and animal combats, would anyone like to see a
system with more customization? I was thinking of a system, similar to other
combat games, in which each gladiator or animal would have his personal
attributes, and then the creator would have the option of dividing a set
number of points among those attributes. This would make it a little more
involved to crate a gladiator, but it would allow the outcome to be a little
less random.

I thought it might be fun to do a sort of trivia contest based on t.v. Shows
and movies with a roman theme. If enough people are interested I could put
together a list of movies etc that would be the source material so there
would be time to study!

I'd like to consider an �art� competition as well. The categories for
entries would be very open, such as 2d art, 3d art, multi-media art and
composition. If there is any interest in that I'd like to know as well!

My final question is this, is there anyone out there playing �Little Big
Planet� ? I've been working on a Rome themed level for a little while,
tinkering really, and I'd like to know if there's anyone out there who might
be interested in playing it come November?

I'm personally really, really excited about these games and I can't wait to
hear what everyone else is interested in doing! Tell me what you want to
play and I'll do my best to make it happen for you!


Have a fantastic day!

Valete!


This is how I roll...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82783 From: L. Lucretius Caupo Date: 2011-01-15
Subject: Re: The Coming Games and YOU!
Caupo Pulchrae omnibusque in foro S.P.D.

I would love a trivia contest based on Roman-themed shows and movies! What a
neat idea!
Let us know if you would like to receive suggestions.

Vale, et valete,

L. LVCRETIVS CAVPO


-----Original Message-----
From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Gaia Valeria Pulchra
Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 10:24 AM
To: Nova-Roma; BackAlley
Subject: [Nova-Roma] The Coming Games and YOU!

Salvete Omnes!

I've wanted to send this message out for a while but I've been snowed in up
here in Rhode island!

I've been thinking about the games coming in April and in November. I
thought I would reach out to everyone and see if I could get some feedback!
I have some ideas that I'd like to throw out to everyone. Fist, for the
chariot races, would anyone be interested in seeing a slide show of the
races, done with miniatures on a grid? Maybe with some commentary on
highlights? Does anyone feel like they would like a visual to go with the
chariot race results?

In regard to the gladiatorial and animal combats, would anyone like to see a
system with more customization? I was thinking of a system, similar to other
combat games, in which each gladiator or animal would have his personal
attributes, and then the creator would have the option of dividing a set
number of points among those attributes. This would make it a little more
involved to crate a gladiator, but it would allow the outcome to be a little
less random.

I thought it might be fun to do a sort of trivia contest based on t.v. Shows
and movies with a roman theme. If enough people are interested I could put
together a list of movies etc that would be the source material so there
would be time to study!

I'd like to consider an "art" competition as well. The categories for
entries would be very open, such as 2d art, 3d art, multi-media art and
composition. If there is any interest in that I'd like to know as well!

My final question is this, is there anyone out there playing "Little Big
Planet" ? I've been working on a Rome themed level for a little while,
tinkering really, and I'd like to know if there's anyone out there who might
be interested in playing it come November?

I'm personally really, really excited about these games and I can't wait to
hear what everyone else is interested in doing! Tell me what you want to
play and I'll do my best to make it happen for you!


Have a fantastic day!

Valete!


This is how I roll...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82784 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: ad Consules Praetoresque et plebis Tribunos
Q Caecilius Metellus Consulibus Praetoribusque et Tribunis plebis salutem.

Saluete,

Paragraph IV.A. of the lex constitutiua states, in part: "Should an
office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an
election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor
to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the
vacancy." It later provides that exceptions are given in Sec. V of the
same, which provides for what I call the 'three-month senatorial
appointment'. Neither, however, handle the situation of an office
becoming vacant on the end of the term of a magistrate with no elected
successor. With that being the case, I would like to have your opinions
on the application of this law (and any other relevant legislation) to
such a situation.

Further, and with particular reference to the Tribuni plebis, the Lex
Grylla de Magistratibus Plebis Creandis handles a similar situation.
However, it specifically states (also in part): "If *no* candidates for
Tribunus Plebis or Aedilis Plebis declare in December..." (my emphasis).
It too does not provide for a situation in which there are less
candidates than open positions. I believe the Lex Salicia de
Prorogatione et Cumulatione is not applicable here, since it only deals
with the acceptance of candidacies, which would only *help* prevent this
situation, but would not prevent it outright of its own merit.
Therefore, I am equally curious to know, as above, your opinions on the
application of this legislation in the situation outlined above.

Ut ualeatis optime, curate bene.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82785 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: a.d. XVII Kal. Feb.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XVII Kalendas Februarius; haec dies comitialis est.


"Some state that these things happened in the first year of Romulus'
reign, but Gnaeus Gellius says it was in the fourth, which is more
probable. For it is not likely that the head of a newly-built city
would undertake such an enterprise before establishing its
government. As regards the reason for the seizing of the virgins,
some ascribe it to a scarcity of women, others to the seeking of
pretext for war; but those who give the most plausible account — and
with them I agree — attribute it to the design of contracting an
alliance with the neighbouring cities, founded on affinity. And the
Romans even to my day continued to celebrate the festival then
instituted by Romulus, calling it the Consualia, in the course of
which a subterranean altar, erected near the Circus Maximus, is
uncovered by the removal of the soil round about it and honoured
with sacrifices and burnt-offerings of first-fruits and a course is
run both by horses yoked to chariots and by single horses. The god
to whom these honours are paid is called Consus by the Romans, being
the same, according to some who render the name into our tongue, as
Poseidon Seisichthon or the "Earth-shaker"; and they say that this
god was honoured with a subterranean altar because he holds the
earth. I know also from hearsay another tradition, to the effect
that the festival is indeed celebrated in honour of Neptune and the
horse-races are held in his honour, but that the subterranean altar
was erected later to a certain divinity whose name may not be
uttered, who presides over and is the guardian of hidden counsels;
for a secret altar has never been erected to Neptune, they say, in
any part of the world by either Greeks or barbarians. But it is hard
to say what the truth of the matter is.

When, now, the report of the seizure of the virgins and of their
marriage was spread among the neighbouring cities, some of these
were incensed at the proceeding itself, though others, considering
the motive from which it sprang and the outcome to which it led,
bore it with moderation; but, at any rate, in the course of time it
occasioned several wars, of which the rest were of small
consequence, but that against the Sabines was a great and difficult
one. All these wars ended happily, as the oracles had foretold to
Romulus before he undertook the task, indicating as they did that
the difficulties and dangers would be great but that their outcome
would be prosperous. The first cities that made war upon him were
Caenina, Antemnae and Crustumerium. They put forward as a pretext
the seizure of the virgins and their failure to receive satisfaction
on their account; but the truth was that they were displeased at the
founding of Rome and at its great and rapid increase and felt that
they ought not to permit this city to grow up as a common menace to
all its neighbours. For the time being, then, these cities were
sending ambassadors to the Sabines, asking them to take command of
the war, since they possessed the greatest military strength and
were most powerful by reason of their wealth and were laying claim
to the rule over their neighbours and inasmuch as they had suffered
from the Romans' insolence quite as much as any of the rest; for the
greater part of the virgins who had been seized belonged to them." -
Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" 2.31-32



"Dea Concordia Dea, fons felix pacis amicitiaeque nostrae, quae in
mente communi omnes Romanos consociat, quae post caedem tribunorum
sacrosanctorum Senatum ad templum exstruendum coegit ut concordia
ordinum redintegretur, tibi fieri oportet culignam vini dapi, eius
rei ergo hac illace dape pullucenda esto."
(Goddess Concordia, fortunate font of our peace and friendship, who
unites all Romans in a common purpose, who after the murder of
sacrosanct tribunes compelled the Senate to erect a temple to
restore the concord of the orders, to you it is proper for a cup of
wine to be given, for the sake of this thing may you be honoured by
this feast offering.)

"Radiant one, the next day places you in your snow-white shrine,
Near where lofty Moneta lifts her noble stairway:
Concord, you will gaze on the Latin crowd's prosperity,
Now sacred hands have established you.
Camillus, conqueror of the Etruscan people,
Vowed your ancient temple and kept his vow.
His reason was that the commoners had armed themselves,
Seceding from the nobles, and Rome feared their power." - Ovid FASTI
1.639


Today is held in honor of the goddess Concordia. Concordia is the
goddess of agreement, understanding, and marital harmony. Her oldest
temple was on the Forum Romanum. This great temple dedicated to the
goddess Concordia was located on the northwest side of the Forum.
Very little survives in situ but enough evidence remains to allow a
general sketch of the history and design of building on the site. A
temple to the goddess was vowed by Camillus in 367 B.C. on the
occasion of the Licinian-Sextian laws expanding the civil rights of
the plebs. At first, only an altar seems to have been built.
Explorations on the site have established that the first temple was
constructed in 121 B.C. by L. Opimius, who, as consul, used the
senatus consultum ultimum as a license to kill C. Gracchus. The
temple was often used as a meeting place of the Senate. Tiberius
restored and enlarged the building between 7 B.C. and A.D.10,
dedicating it in his name and that of his deceased brother, Drusus
(cf. the Temple of Castor and Pollux). In this form, the building
survived until late antiquity. Its design was unusual in having its
facade on the long side. The dimensions of the building were 45
meters long x 23 meters wide. It was hexastyle in the Corinthian
order; the cella was set on a high podium. The threshold of the
cella survives and is made of Porta Santa marble. The superstructure
was constructed of white marble. Also surviving is an impressive
piece of the entablature, which is elaborately cut. Coins illustrate
the facade, showing a riot of statuary. We know that the temple
housed many works of art, leading some scholars to call it
a ""temple-museum."" Ancient authors mention statues here of Vesta,
Apollo and Juno, Latona and her children, Aesculapius and Hygieia,
Mars and Mercury, Ceres, Jupiter, and Minerva. The temple survived
intact at least until the beginning of the fifth century A.D.



Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82786 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: Re: ad Consules Praetoresque et plebis Tribunos
Cn. Iulius Caesar Praetor Q. Caecilio Metello sal.

You are correct, in that the Constitution and the relevant legislation do not speak to the circumstances you describe.

Such provisions as do exist relate to offices becoming vacant mid-term (a vague and undefined term in the legislation), or where they relate to vacant offices at the start of the year, the solution is predicated on there having been unsuccessful candidates who ran for that office "in the previous election" that can be used in a subsequent election.

This latter provision in section III.A.1 of the Lex Fabia de ratione comitiorum populi tributorum is poorly worded. Say for example there were seven unfilled Quaestor positions as we have now. The lex says that we can draw from the unsuccessful candidates in the previous election for the follow up election to fill the seven slots. Well clearly one could only have seven such candidates if they polled zero votes. It is possible, but unlikely. That begs the question that if they commanded such little support why anyone would want to put them forward again, only weeks later.

The only other possibility of course is that it refers to the previous year's election, yet the wording is such that the previous election, in relation to the follow-up election, has to be the one where the seven did not get elected, so if that was the intent sloppy wording takes its toll. Also this option is not mandatory, for it uses the word "may" and in any case practically such unsuccessful candidates might have been elected to other offices, not be citizens, or may not want to stand for election.

This type of situation will shortly be addressed in the Senate in relation to the shortage of Quaestors we are faced with.

Optime vale.


--- On Sun, 1/16/11, Q Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@...> wrote:

> From: Q Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] ad Consules Praetoresque et plebis Tribunos
> To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, January 16, 2011, 1:52 AM
> Q Caecilius Metellus Consulibus
> Praetoribusque et Tribunis plebis salutem.
>
> Saluete,
>
> Paragraph IV.A. of the lex constitutiua states, in part:
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82787 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: CONCORDIA honored today
Cn. Lentulus sacerdos Concordiae Quiritibus sal.

I inform my fellow Quirites that our Patron Goddess Concordia's temple dedication day has been celebrated today by your NR priest of Concordia.

a.d. XVII Kalendas Februarias (January 16): Aniversary (dies natalis) of the re-dedication of the Temple of Concordia, which stands below the Capitoline Hill, near the Tabularium. This temple was rebuilt by Tiberius in 7 AD out of the spoils of defeated Germany, and it was re-dedicated on 10 AD. According to the tradition the original temple was dedicated in fulfillment of a vow made by Furius Camillus in 367 BCE, upon the end of the revolt that opposed plebeians and patricians. Nevertheless, it is not certain whether this temple was ever built. Probably the temple rebuilt by Tiberius was the one that the senate ordered L. Opimius to build in 121 BCE after the death of C. Gracchus. Whatever the truth, the dies natalis of the older temple was almost certainly July 22.

The ritual I used has been this one (with slight modifications updated):

http://novaroma.org/nr/Aedes_Concordiae_Populi_Novi_Romani_(Nova_Roma)#SACRIFICIUM_CONCORDIAE_DIE_TEMPLI_CONCORDIAE_AUGUSTAE_ANNI_SACRI_X_NOVAE_ROMAE_CONDITAE


CONCORDIA VOS AMET!

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
sacredos Concordiae





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82788 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: CP Question
Ave!

For all of us who are not monitoring the CP list...there seems to be an
sinister development afoot, regarding one of the coup plotters and active
participate in overthrowing the constitutional government of NR.

How do you all feel about the coup plotter and liar Messalina becoming Chief
Vestal again?

Since that is what is going on in the CP Do these people in the CP not know
how to make the tough decisions that need to be made? Do they just want to
be loved by everyone and thusly hated by everyone in the end result?

In the words of our Rex, Pontifex, Augur, Flamin and Senator Modianus, did
we not learn anything from last year?

Vale,

Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82789 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: Re: CONCORDIA honored today
Ave, Lentule
 
Gratias tibi ago. Dea concordia sacerdotis tibi favet.
 
Vale bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis
 


<<--- On Sun, 1/16/11, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

 
Cn. Lentulus sacerdos Concordiae Quiritibus sal.

I inform my fellow Quirites that our Patron Goddess Concordia's temple dedication day has been celebrated today by your NR priest of Concordia.

a.d. XVII Kalendas Februarias (January 16): Aniversary (dies natalis) of the re-dedication of the Temple of Concordia, which stands below the Capitoline Hill, near the Tabularium. This temple was rebuilt by Tiberius in 7 AD out of the spoils of defeated Germany, and it was re-dedicated on 10 AD. According to the tradition the original temple was dedicated in fulfillment of a vow made by Furius Camillus in 367 BCE, upon the end of the revolt that opposed plebeians and patricians. Nevertheless, it is not certain whether this temple was ever built. Probably the temple rebuilt by Tiberius was the one that the senate ordered L. Opimius to build in 121 BCE after the death of C. Gracchus. Whatever the truth, the dies natalis of the older temple was almost certainly July 22.

The ritual I used has been this one (with slight modifications updated):

http://novaroma.org/nr/Aedes_Concordiae_Populi_Novi_Romani_(Nova_Roma)#SACRIFICIUM_CONCORDIAE_DIE_TEMPLI_CONCORDIAE_AUGUSTAE_ANNI_SACRI_X_NOVAE_ROMAE_CONDITAE

CONCORDIA VOS AMET!

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
sacredos Concordiae>>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82790 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Q Caecilius Metellus pontifex C Equitio Catoni consuli salutem dicit.

Salue, Consul.

That things may be unquestionably clear, I must ask you this. Are you
saying that K Fabius Buteo Modianus, currently sitting as Rex Sacrorum,
took the auspices for this session of the senate, as augur? Is that
correct?

I thank you in advance for all the clarification you can give on this
rather important matter.

Ut res publica ualeat,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus
Pontifex
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82791 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-16
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Q Caecilio Metello salutem dicit

I did, in fact, take the auspicies for the current senate session. Do you
have a problem with this?

Vale,

Modianus
On Jan 16, 2011 7:00 PM, "Q Caecilius Metellus" <
q.caecilius.metellus@...> wrote:
> Q Caecilius Metellus pontifex C Equitio Catoni consuli salutem dicit.
>
> Salue, Consul.
>
> That things may be unquestionably clear, I must ask you this. Are you
> saying that K Fabius Buteo Modianus, currently sitting as Rex Sacrorum,
> took the auspices for this session of the senate, as augur? Is that
> correct?
>
> I thank you in advance for all the clarification you can give on this
> rather important matter.
>
> Ut res publica ualeat,
>
> Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus
> Pontifex


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82792 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Ex officio consularis Gai Equitii Catoni
>
> ...Equiti Catonis, genitive case...
>
> The auspices having been taken, and interpreted as favorable by the augur
> Fabius
> Buteo Modianus, I hereby announce my intent to call the Senate of Nova Roma to
> order on a.d. XV Kalendas Februarius (18 January).
>
> ATS: Ummm...errrrr....Cato dear, isn¹t Venator supposed to call the
> Senate in January? Your turn comes in February.
>
> The session shall consider, but is not limited to, consideration of our
> actions
> in and governance of the provinces, legal activity that has taken place in the
> past,
>
> ATS: And what legal activity might that be? Inquiring minds want to
> know.
>
>
> the appointment of quaestors,
>
> ATS: Appointment of quaestors? Why should we appoint quaestores? Is
> anyone in the current oligarchy aware that this sort of thing is supposed to
> be accomplished by (horrors!) a dreadful concept called...elections? And who
> might be the chosen few? Anyone left on the BA who doesn¹t yet hold a
> position?
>
> the appointment of a CFO,
>
> ATS: And the nominees are...
>
>
> and other issues
> regarding our by-laws.
>
> Optime valete,
>
> C. Equitius Cato
> Consul
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82793 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Q Caecilius Metellus Postumianus pontifex Modiano s.d.

> I did, in fact, take the auspicies for the current senate session. Do you
> have a problem with this?

Yes, I most certainly do. You are Rex Sacrorum, as the Collegium
Pontificum has seen fit to make you. Yet you stand to spit on a very
specific tradition -- that he who is to be called Rex shall be so only
in name, he may hold *no* other offices -- by taking auspices for the
State here. Have you no concern for the welfare of the Res Publica?
Does it not occur to you what ire you might be bringing upon the Res
Publica by ignoring the mos maiorum in the way that you have? You
should have declined to take the auspices, being in the position that
you are, and this is something that I ought not need to tell you, nor
even ought it need to be stated. You, Kaeso Fabius, should know better,
especially if you intend to continue as Rex.

Our consul, however, ought to have known better as well, than to have
been willing to utilise the auspices you have taken. It cannot be
unknown to him that the Collegium has seated you as Rex Sacrorum, nor
can it be unknown to him that a Rex Sacrorum ought not hold any other
offices. Unless he does not recognise your holding the post, he should
be well aware that you should not be taking auspices for the Res
Publica. So yes, I have quite a problem with your taking the auspices
for *any* session of the Senate, for as long as you hold the seat of Rex
Sacrorum. That you have done so ought to be criminal, or at very best,
impiety in the extreme, and I cannot but implore the presiding consul to
cancel his session which will have begun under treasonous auspices, and
start his session anew under good auspices, taken by someone not under
the impairments which are upon you by condition of your office. I fully
believe that the items the consul intends the Senate to consider are not
frivolous; I certainly, then, do not suspect that he should like the
results of his session, whatsoever they may be, to be brought to the
ends they very well may if he continues under these auspicia vitiosa.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82794 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Q. Caecilio Metello salutem dicit

I find your tone and candor both unstable and disturbing. If you had a
problem you should have stated it in the Collegium Pontificum when this was
being discussed. Nova Roma is "breaking new ground" by appointing a Rex
Sacrorum, it has never been done before in Nova Roma. It is not and never
has been my intention to spit on anything and I find your words against me
offensive. In fact you made a post within the Collegium Pontificum
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/collegium_pontificum_nr/message/238) where
you state that I am under no compulsion to resign from my other priesthoods.
I advised the Collegium that I would respect the wishes of the majority of
pontifices, and Lentulus asked that I remain in my other priesthoods and no
one objected. I had been my intention to follow the wishes of my colleagues
in a respectful and adult manner -- instead of making a show in the public
arena. However, it would seem that your post (that I list above) was an
attempt to "set me up." How long have you been waiting to issue the venom
you posted below?

You take your OWN interpretation of the Religio as the ONLY interpretation
of the Religio and I do not share your rigid thinking.

I'm not going to engage in a pissing match with you Metellus. If our
colleagues wish to discuss this like adults in the Collegium Pontificum
then, as before, I will respect and honor the counsel of my colleagues.

Vale;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 4:29 AM, Q Caecilius Metellus <
q.caecilius.metellus@...> wrote:

>
>
> Q Caecilius Metellus Postumianus pontifex Modiano s.d.
>
>
> > I did, in fact, take the auspicies for the current senate session. Do you
> > have a problem with this?
>
> Yes, I most certainly do. You are Rex Sacrorum, as the Collegium
> Pontificum has seen fit to make you. Yet you stand to spit on a very
> specific tradition -- that he who is to be called Rex shall be so only
> in name, he may hold *no* other offices -- by taking auspices for the
> State here. Have you no concern for the welfare of the Res Publica?
> Does it not occur to you what ire you might be bringing upon the Res
> Publica by ignoring the mos maiorum in the way that you have? You
> should have declined to take the auspices, being in the position that
> you are, and this is something that I ought not need to tell you, nor
> even ought it need to be stated. You, Kaeso Fabius, should know better,
> especially if you intend to continue as Rex.
>
> Our consul, however, ought to have known better as well, than to have
> been willing to utilise the auspices you have taken. It cannot be
> unknown to him that the Collegium has seated you as Rex Sacrorum, nor
> can it be unknown to him that a Rex Sacrorum ought not hold any other
> offices. Unless he does not recognise your holding the post, he should
> be well aware that you should not be taking auspices for the Res
> Publica. So yes, I have quite a problem with your taking the auspices
> for *any* session of the Senate, for as long as you hold the seat of Rex
> Sacrorum. That you have done so ought to be criminal, or at very best,
> impiety in the extreme, and I cannot but implore the presiding consul to
> cancel his session which will have begun under treasonous auspices, and
> start his session anew under good auspices, taken by someone not under
> the impairments which are upon you by condition of your office. I fully
> believe that the items the consul intends the Senate to consider are not
> frivolous; I certainly, then, do not suspect that he should like the
> results of his session, whatsoever they may be, to be brought to the
> ends they very well may if he continues under these auspicia vitiosa.
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82795 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Q Caecilius Metellus pontifex Modianus sal.

> I find your tone and candor both unstable and disturbing. If you had a
> problem you should have stated it in the Collegium Pontificum when this was
> being discussed. Nova Roma is "breaking new ground" by appointing a Rex
> Sacrorum, it has never been done before in Nova Roma. It is not and never
> has been my intention to spit on anything and I find your words against me
> offensive. In fact you made a post within the Collegium Pontificum
> (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/collegium_pontificum_nr/message/238) where
> you state that I am under no compulsion to resign from my other priesthoods.
> I advised the Collegium that I would respect the wishes of the majority of
> pontifices, and Lentulus asked that I remain in my other priesthoods and no
> one objected. I had been my intention to follow the wishes of my colleagues
> in a respectful and adult manner -- instead of making a show in the public
> arena. However, it would seem that your post (that I list above) was an
> attempt to "set me up." How long have you been waiting to issue the venom
> you posted below?

Let us set the record straight then. I did state, as you demonstrated,
that you cannot be *forced* to resign. When the Collegium Pontificum
appointed you Rex Sacrorum, they did not lay upon you the conditions
historically attendant to the office, and I cannot find it justified
that the Collegium remove you from any of your other posts on the
exclusive ground that you are currently Rex Sacrorum. That is not to
say, however, that I do not feel that you should lay down your other
offices. In fact, I do feel that you ought to do so, of your own
compulsion. So no, my earlier sentiments were not an attempt to set you
up. That was my opinion, and it has not changed. I do not believe the
Collegium may justifiably remove you or compel you to resign from your
other posts on the exclusive ground of your being Rex Sacrorum.
Nevertheless, I maintain that *you ought to lay down those offices*, in
due respect to and acknowledgement of the mos maiorum.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82796 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Cato Tulliae Scholasticae senatore Q. Caecilio Metello pontifice omnibusque in foro SPD

Senator, you are absolutely correct, and I will amend my item on the agenda to rather read that we will discus an SCU regarding allowing elections to be held for quaestores in the same manner as the last set in view of the continued absence of our formal voting procedure.

Regarding who calls the Senate when, or indeed who does *any* consular activity when, that is entirely at the discretion of the consuls as colleagues.

Pontiff, I have been reading a great deal about this since the issue was brought up originally; everything that I have read (Beard, North & Price, Adkins, Ando, Warrior, and Smith) seem to indicate that the rex sacrorum was prohibited from holding a *military or political* career, being banned from all civil positions.

Now, our own rex sacrorum contravenes ancient practice in a number of ways, as we all know; yet the College of Pontiffs has seen fit to create the position as it exists currently - including not having required Fabius Modianus from resigning his place as an augur. That is a fact, and one over which I cannot presume to override or contradict the College.

Another fact is that even the ancients recognized that there was no power on earth that could take away the priesthood of an augur, even if that augur was found guilty of the most vicious or treasonous of crimes; only his ability to publicly pronounce was curtailed, and then only in extraordinarily rare circumstances.

Given all this, I am one of those who have called repeatedly that we try to obey the ancient practices as closely as possible. We all know that magistrates *should be* taking their own auspices, and I have told two of the augurs individually that I, at least, want to learn to do so for myself as soon as possible.

But I will not have even that hint of pollution on something which is so vital to the proper observance of the sacra publica, especially at a time when proper order and correct action are so vital to the Respublica. The College of Pontiffs can figure out exactly what should be done with this internal question.

I hereby rescind my call for the Senate, and announce my intent to re-call it for the time frame of sunrise on a.d. XII Kal. Feb. (22 January) until sunset on a.d. III Kal. Feb. (30 January).

I call upon Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus, augur, to take the auspices for this newly-announced session.

Valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82797 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Augury, Calling the Senate, Quaestors...concerns expressed
Salve et salvete omnes Cives, Magistrates et Senators;

Simply put, we are, all of us, training on the job, with a sometimes
steep learning curve ahead.

There are many details, which have come to light, that were not laid
out on the books (so to speak).

Cato asked Modianus to take the Augury out of respect and as a hand
held out in Concordia I believe. No disrespect was meant to the Rex
Sacrorum tradition, which is still very new to us.

My stepping aside for Cato to call the first Senate session of the
year is practical in nature. He has been more involved in the
day-to-day inner workings than I the past year or so. I admit that I
am more of a "keep your eyes on the prize" sort of intellect,
preferring to work in council and college. In my mind there is no
Maior - Minor divide; who can best lead in a certain situation...

As to the Quaestors; we have to get our financial house in order. We
can not do that very well without a fully staffed financial team.

I have been in contact with our former CFO (Equestria) who cooperated
fully with transferring of the records she possessed. All it took was
actually communicating with her directly, in a courteous, amicable
tone. It was not fully my own doing; I had help from Paulinus.

I have likewise been in contact with our former CIO (Saturninus) and
the web hosting company wherein our website resides. That situation
is likewise well in the works; a move which will keep our website from
disappearing.

This is where I do my best work for any group that has charged me to
help; behind the scenes.

If this upsets the apple cart of precedence for awhile, I see that as
necessary, but not permanent.

Optime vale
Venator
Consul, Cives, Poeta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82798 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: a.d. XVI Kal. FEb.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XVI Kalendas Februarius; haec dies comitialis est.

"When this day is over, Phoebus, you will leave Capricorn,
And take your course through the sign of the Water-Bearer." - Ovid,
FASTI, Book I


"But when they found they were accomplishing nothing, since the
embassies from Romulus opposed them and courted the Sabine people both
by their words and by their actions, they were vexed at the waste of
time — for the Sabines were forever affecting delays and putting off
to distant dates the deliberation concerning the war — and resolved to
make war upon the Romans by themselves alone, believing that their own
strength, if the three cities joined forces, was sufficient to conquer
one inconsiderable city. This was their plan: but they did not all
assemble together promptly enough in one camp, since the Caeninenses,
who seemed to be most eager in promoting the war, rashly set out ahead
of the others. When these men, then, had taken the field and were
wasting the country that bordered on their own, Romulus led out his
army, and unexpectedly falling upon the enemy while they were as yet
off their guard, he made himself master of their camp, which was but
just completed. Then following close upon the heels of those who fled
into the city, where the inhabitants had not as yet learned of the
defeat of their forces, and finding the walls unguarded and the gates
unbarred, he took the town by storm; and when the king of the
Caeninenses met him with a strong body of men, he fought with him, and
slaying him with his own hands, stripped him of his arms." - Dionysius
of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" 2.33

"The personification of happiness, to whom a temple was erected by Lucullus in B. C. 75, which, however, was burnt down in the reign of Claudius. (Plin. H. N. xxxiv. 8; Augustin. de Civ. Dei, iv. 18, 23; comp. Cic. in Verr. iv. 2, 57.) Felicitas is frequently seen on Roman medals, in the form of a matron, with the staff of Mercury (caduceus) and a cornucopia. Sometimes also she has other attributes, according to the kind of happiness she represents. (Lindner, de Felicitate Dea ex Numis illustrata, Arnstadt, 1770; Rasche, Lex Num. ii. 1, p. 956.) The Greeks worshipped the same personification, under the name of Eutuchia, who is frequently represented in works of art." - http://www.mythindex.com/roman-mythology/F/Felicitas.html


Today is held in honor of Felicitas, the goddess of good luck and
prosperity. She personifies happy events and serendipity; in the
later Republic and the Empire she was a particular favorite of
successful commanders.

Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82799 From: Kirsteen Wright Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Ave

I really, really hope this isn't true because I find the idea an utter
travesty and an insult to the gods. Believe me, there is nothing personal in
this. Indeed when Messalina resigned I emailed hr privately with my
sympathies for her situation, her own ill-health and that of her mother and
told her I would offer my prayers for hr as I did. She continues to be my
face-book friend so I find the following even more difficult to write.



I admit that when Messalina first said she was standing for political
office, I was horrified. As someone who has privately served Vesta for many
years now, I was appalled at the thought of the sacred office of Virgo
Maxima being besmirched and polluted by mixing it with politics. However I
listened to what Messalina had to say, accepted the reasons she gave and, in
fact, voted for her.



Later I came to regret doing so. She frequently stated that, as a servant of
Vesta, she could not lie but was, at all times, truthful. I found this very
admirable and, indeed, it was one of the reasons I voted for her. However,
once in office, she made several very derogatory remarks about other
citizens and when called upon to substantiate her remarks, her invariable
response was to the effect that we just had to accept what she said as she
could not lie. I was truly unhappy about anyone putting forth their personal
opinion as gospel truth by hiding behind the skirts of the Goddess Vesta.



However, it�s not any of that that makes me feel this way now. You call her
a coup plotter and a liar. Whether we agree or disagree with that, the fact
remains Maxima Valeria Messalina resigned all her offices and her
citizenship. The reasons she gave were her own ill health and that of her
mother. I, probably more than most, can empathise with that situation and,
as I said, offered my prayers for both of them.



I know others will argue that she resigned for political reasons. I don�t
believe it matters. Had she simply gone to the CP and said �due to my
present circumstances I can not fulfill all of my duties but I�ll do what I
can� then no-one could have been so boorish as not to accept that. There
were others serving Vesta and I�m sure the CP could have worked out some way
of seeing that the duties were fulfilled, while making it as easy as
possible on Messalina. Instead she chose to abandon her position as Virgo
Maxima completely and to completely walk away from Nova Roma.



I admit Vesta happens to be my favourite goddess. I happen to believe that
the role of Virgo Maxima is by far the most important one in Nova Roma.
That�s my opinion. No one can take an oath to publicly serve the gods, then
turn their back and walk away, however dire their circumstances and then
walk back in and take up the same position.



The gods can�t be picked up, laid down and then picked up again. To do that
is a total insult to them. Your life is dedicated to Vesta first and
foremost and ALL else second or it�s not � it�s as simple as that. You take
an oath, that oath is binding. No on can treat Vesta like a plaything,
someone to serve when it suits and not when it doesn�t. No one can lay down
that sacred office, walk totally away from it and then stroll back when it
suits them. What would have happened to any Vestal in ancient Rome, never
mind the Virgo Maxima, who abandoned her sacred office and indeed left Rome
completely? Would she have been allowed to return to that office when it
suited her. Above all, would Vesta have been happy with a community that
allowed this.



On a personal level, if Maxima Valeria Messalina�s health has improved, then
I am delighted for her. Surely, however, we as a community of Nova Roma, the
home of the Religio, the public worship of the gods, don�t care so little
for the Pax Deorum that we would allow this travesty, this public insult to
the gods to take place. Please tell me that those entrusted to care for the
sacra publica care more for Vesta than this.


Respectfully

Flavia Lucilla Merula



On Sun, Jan 16, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Robert Woolwine
<robert.woolwine@...>wrote:

> Ave!
>
> For all of us who are not monitoring the CP list...there seems to be an
> sinister development afoot, regarding one of the coup plotters and active
> participate in overthrowing the constitutional government of NR.
>
> How do you all feel about the coup plotter and liar Messalina becoming
> Chief
> Vestal again?
>
> Since that is what is going on in the CP Do these people in the CP not
> know
> how to make the tough decisions that need to be made? Do they just want to
> be loved by everyone and thusly hated by everyone in the end result?
>
> In the words of our Rex, Pontifex, Augur, Flamin and Senator Modianus, did
> we not learn anything from last year?
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82800 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Cn. Lentulus Q. Metello omnibusque sal.


After studying the historical requirements of the rex sacrorum, I concluded that the rex sacrorum was banned from politics, but nor from holding another priesthood.

Priesthood and magistracy are not equally "offices". Separately, one can call any priesthood as office, but when it comes to a precise analysis, a priesthood differs from a political magistracies in several and many points.

So, while I see a strong and important historical tradition that the rex sacrorum must be forbidden to hold any magistracy, I see no requirement that he could not be flamen or augur. Especially since we need people to fill these positions.

It's a hard and difficult question when it comes to senatorial status. A Roman senatorship has nothing to do with modern American senatorship. American senators are represenative delegates of the people (states), they have a term of office etc. Roman senators are senators for life, it's a rank and status. Roman senators have no "duty", and no "office". They can advise the magistrate, but they can refrain from it, as well. Being senator is indeed somewhat political, but in a lot it depends on the individual senator.

I have never read or heard anything about the rex sacrorum's and senatorial status' connection.

Was the rex sacrorum banned from the senate? Because the flamen Dialis, another priest who could not bear political posts, was outright invited to the senate and an ex officio member.

Does anyone know about whether the rex sacrorum could have been senator or not?




 















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82801 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Ave!

Just a basic look on the Net says this:

Here are some references:

http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Rex_Sacrorum
Establishment

When the Roman people<http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Roman_Republic>overthrew
the last
Roman king <http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Roman_Kingdom> in
510 BC<http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/510s_BC>,
the notion persisted that a person had to perform the
rituals<http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Ritual>that the king of
Rome traditionally presided over. The Romans therefore
appointed a *Rex Sacrorum*, literally *king of the sacred rites*, who
discharged the religious duties of the deposed king. The *Rex Sacrorum* was
a patrician <http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Patrician>, appointed to
the priesthood for life by the Pontifex
Maximus<http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Pontifex_Maximus>.
In theory and in social
precedence<http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Precedence>,
the *Rex Sacrorum* was the highest ranking priest in the Roman religion, in
practice his influence<http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Rex_Sacrorum#>was
far less than that of the Pontifex
Maximus <http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Pontifex_Maximus>. He was
exempt from all civilian or military duties.* Unlike the Pontifex Maximus or
the Augurs he was forbidden to hold any other office, thus he wielded no
civil or military influence.* Because of these restrictions, the office was
never coveted by the plebeians<http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Plebs>,
and remained a patrician monopoly until it was abolished during the reign of
Theodosius I <http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Theodosius_I> in
390<http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/390>AD. The
*Rex Sacrorum's* wife was also a priest, called the *Regina Sacrorum*,
"queen of the sacred rites."


http://www.informationdelight.info/encyclopedia/entry/Rex_sacrorum

The Romans therefore appointed a ''rex sacrorum'', literally ''king of the
sacred rites'', in order to discharge the religious duties of the king. The
''rex sacrorum'' was, of course, a
Patrician<http://www.informationdelight.info/encyclopedia/entry/patrician>,
appointed to the priesthood for life by the '' Pontifex
Maximus<http://www.informationdelight.info/encyclopedia/entry/pontifex_maximus>''.
In theory and in social
Precedence<http://www.informationdelight.info/encyclopedia/entry/precedence>,
the ''rex sacrorum'' was the highest ranking priest in the Roman
religion,
in practice his influence was far less than that of the ''pontifex
maximus''. *He was exempt from all civilian or military duties; he wielded
no civil or military influence.* Because of this, the office was never
coveted by the Plebeian<http://www.informationdelight.info/encyclopedia/entry/plebeian>s,
and remained a patrician monopoly until it was abolished during the
reign
of Theodosius I<http://www.informationdelight.info/encyclopedia/entry/Theodosius_I>in
390 <http://www.informationdelight.info/encyclopedia/entry/390> AD. His
wife, also, was a priest, and she became known as the ''regina sacrorum'',
"queen of the sacred rites."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Sacrorum

The *rex sacrorum* was a feature of
Italic<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_peoples_of_Italy>religion
and possibly also
Etruscan <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etruscan_religion>. The title is
found in Latin cities <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latium> such as
Lanuvium<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanuvium>,
Tusculum <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tusculum>, and
Velitrae<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velitrae>.
The Roman priesthood was deliberately
depoliticized;[10]<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_Sacrorum#cite_note-9>the
*rex sacrorum* was not elected, and the
*comitia<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_assemblies>
* merely witnessed his inauguration. Like the *flamen
Dialis<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flamen_Dialis>
* but in contrast to the pontiffs and
augurs<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augur>,
*the rex was barred from a political and military career. He was thus not a
"decayed king"; rather, after the overthrow of the kings of
Rome<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_of_Rome>,
the office of rex sacrorum fulfilled at least some of the sacral duties of
kingship <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_kingship>, with a diversion of
political power and military command, as well as some sacral functions, to
the consuls <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_consul>.*

http://english.turkcebilgi.com/Rex+Sacrorum

*Double click any English word, to find Turkish meaning * The *Rex Sacrorum*(
Latin <http://english.turkcebilgi.com/Latin>: "king of sacred things") was a
religious office under the Roman
Republic<http://english.turkcebilgi.com/Roman+Republic>.
It is analogous to the office of sacred
king<http://english.turkcebilgi.com/sacred+king>in other cultures.
Establishment When the Roman
people<http://english.turkcebilgi.com/Roman+Republic>overthrew the
last
Roman king <http://english.turkcebilgi.com/Roman+Kingdom> in 510
BC<http://english.turkcebilgi.com/510+BC>,
the notion persisted that a person had to perform the
rituals<http://english.turkcebilgi.com/ritual>that the king of Rome
traditionally presided over. The Romans therefore
appointed a Rex Sacrorum, literally *king of the sacred rites*, who
discharged the religious duties of the deposed king. The *Rex Sacrorum* was
a patrician <http://english.turkcebilgi.com/patrician>, appointed to the
priesthood for life by the Pontifex
Maximus<http://english.turkcebilgi.com/Pontifex+Maximus>.
In theory and in social precedence<http://english.turkcebilgi.com/precedence>,
the *Rex Sacrorum* was the highest ranking priest in the Roman religion, in
practice his influence was far less than that of the Pontifex
Maximus<http://english.turkcebilgi.com/Pontifex+Maximus>.
*He was exempt from all civilian or military duties. Unlike the Pontifex
Maximus or the Augurs he was forbidden to hold any other office, thus he
wielded no civil or military influence. *Because of these restrictions, the
office was never coveted by the
plebeians<http://english.turkcebilgi.com/plebeian>,
and remained a patrician monopoly until it was abolished during the reign of
Theodosius I <http://english.turkcebilgi.com/Theodosius+I> in
390<http://english.turkcebilgi.com/390>AD. The
*Rex Sacrorum's* wife was also a priest, called the *Regina Sacrorum*,
"queen of the sacred rites.

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 9:53 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
>
> Cn. Lentulus Q. Metello omnibusque sal.
>
> After studying the historical requirements of the rex sacrorum, I concluded
> that the rex sacrorum was banned from politics, but nor from holding another
> priesthood.
>
> Priesthood and magistracy are not equally "offices". Separately, one can
> call any priesthood as office, but when it comes to a precise analysis, a
> priesthood differs from a political magistracies in several and many points.
>
> So, while I see a strong and important historical tradition that the rex
> sacrorum must be forbidden to hold any magistracy, I see no requirement that
> he could not be flamen or augur. Especially since we need people to fill
> these positions.
>
> It's a hard and difficult question when it comes to senatorial status. A
> Roman senatorship has nothing to do with modern American senatorship.
> American senators are represenative delegates of the people (states), they
> have a term of office etc. Roman senators are senators for life, it's a rank
> and status. Roman senators have no "duty", and no "office". They can advise
> the magistrate, but they can refrain from it, as well. Being senator is
> indeed somewhat political, but in a lot it depends on the individual
> senator.
>
> I have never read or heard anything about the rex sacrorum's and senatorial
> status' connection.
>
> Was the rex sacrorum banned from the senate? Because the flamen Dialis,
> another priest who could not bear political posts, was outright invited to
> the senate and an ex officio member.
>
> Does anyone know about whether the rex sacrorum could have been senator or
> not?
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82802 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Cn. Cornelio Lentulo salutem dicit

In antiquity I presume that the Rex Sacorurm would have been selected at
early in a man's life before he would have started his political life.
Therefore, it would not have been an issue of him being both a senator and
Rex Sacrorum, because he would never have attained the role of senator. In
Nova Roma we are very different from antiquity.

We are a very young organization. By the time Rome had a Rex Sacrorum they
were already very established as a community. We have a handful of active
people.

Simply put we are doing the best we can with what we have.

Vale;

Modianus

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
>
> Cn. Lentulus Q. Metello omnibusque sal.
>
> After studying the historical requirements of the rex sacrorum, I concluded
> that the rex sacrorum was banned from politics, but nor from holding another
> priesthood.
>
> Priesthood and magistracy are not equally "offices". Separately, one can
> call any priesthood as office, but when it comes to a precise analysis, a
> priesthood differs from a political magistracies in several and many points.
>
> So, while I see a strong and important historical tradition that the rex
> sacrorum must be forbidden to hold any magistracy, I see no requirement that
> he could not be flamen or augur. Especially since we need people to fill
> these positions.
>
> It's a hard and difficult question when it comes to senatorial status. A
> Roman senatorship has nothing to do with modern American senatorship.
> American senators are represenative delegates of the people (states), they
> have a term of office etc. Roman senators are senators for life, it's a rank
> and status. Roman senators have no "duty", and no "office". They can advise
> the magistrate, but they can refrain from it, as well. Being senator is
> indeed somewhat political, but in a lot it depends on the individual
> senator.
>
> I have never read or heard anything about the rex sacrorum's and senatorial
> status' connection.
>
> Was the rex sacrorum banned from the senate? Because the flamen Dialis,
> another priest who could not bear political posts, was outright invited to
> the senate and an ex officio member.
>
> Does anyone know about whether the rex sacrorum could have been senator or
> not?
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82803 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Cn. Lentulus K. Buteoni regi sacrorum sal.


My primary question, however, is still open. Does anyone know an ancient source that states if the rex sacrorum was actually forbidden from bearing another priesthood, at the same time? Because all what I found about the rex sacrorum that he could not be a magistrate.

But could he be a senator? In the Roman legal thinking the senatorship was not an office, and ineed, until the Dictator Sulla's legislation, a big part of the senators had never had held any magistracy, because the senators were permitted to adlect any private person whom they thought of as a decoration of the citizenry. Being a senator was not regarded neither as "civil" or "political". All generals and military ranks were senators, all high priests were (normally) senators. The senate was the highest religious body, because in most of the questions the CP just advised the senate, but the senate could decide otherwise.

So there is no clear division in Rome between "religious" and "civil". We can think of the senate as a religious body, but we can think of the senate as a "civil" body as well. Rome is not a good pleace for people who think in black and white. :-)

A great number of the senators, especially in the pre-Sullan times, were private citizens, who never participated in magistracies and day-to-day politics, and many of them were oscillating between the different factions, they did not have a political mission.

The Roman concept of "senate" was basically that this body is the "elite of the elites", the pool of "best men". It is logical to suppose that such a high priesthood than the rex sacrorum had to right to attend - perhaps not to vote in such a body. As political power in the Roman legal thinking was tied to magistracies, the rex sacrorum's ban from politics, for a Roman, would automatically be understood as ban from holding magistracies, but not a ban from the senate -- since we know of the flamen Dialis that he was ex officio a member of the senate.

I don't know, it is how seems logical to me. I'm just thinking and waiting for others' knowledge. Mine has ended here.





--- Lun 17/1/11, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> ha scritto:

Da: David Kling <tau.athanasios@...>
Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Lunedì 17 gennaio 2011, 18:59







 









Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Cn. Cornelio Lentulo salutem dicit



In antiquity I presume that the Rex Sacorurm would have been selected at

early in a man's life before he would have started his political life.

Therefore, it would not have been an issue of him being both a senator and

Rex Sacrorum, because he would never have attained the role of senator. In

Nova Roma we are very different from antiquity.



We are a very young organization. By the time Rome had a Rex Sacrorum they

were already very established as a community. We have a handful of active

people.



Simply put we are doing the best we can with what we have.



Vale;



Modianus



On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <

cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:



>

>

> Cn. Lentulus Q. Metello omnibusque sal.

>

> After studying the historical requirements of the rex sacrorum, I concluded

> that the rex sacrorum was banned from politics, but nor from holding another

> priesthood.

>

> Priesthood and magistracy are not equally "offices". Separately, one can

> call any priesthood as office, but when it comes to a precise analysis, a

> priesthood differs from a political magistracies in several and many points.

>

> So, while I see a strong and important historical tradition that the rex

> sacrorum must be forbidden to hold any magistracy, I see no requirement that

> he could not be flamen or augur. Especially since we need people to fill

> these positions.

>

> It's a hard and difficult question when it comes to senatorial status. A

> Roman senatorship has nothing to do with modern American senatorship.

> American senators are represenative delegates of the people (states), they

> have a term of office etc. Roman senators are senators for life, it's a rank

> and status. Roman senators have no "duty", and no "office". They can advise

> the magistrate, but they can refrain from it, as well. Being senator is

> indeed somewhat political, but in a lot it depends on the individual

> senator.

>

> I have never read or heard anything about the rex sacrorum's and senatorial

> status' connection.

>

> Was the rex sacrorum banned from the senate? Because the flamen Dialis,

> another priest who could not bear political posts, was outright invited to

> the senate and an ex officio member.

>

> Does anyone know about whether the rex sacrorum could have been senator or

> not?

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82804 From: Gaia Valeria Pulchra Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: The Coming Games and YOU!
absolutely! I would LOVE some suggestions!!!



This is how I roll...




On Sat, Jan 15, 2011 at 3:05 PM, L. Lucretius Caupo <caupo@...
> wrote:

>
>
> Caupo Pulchrae omnibusque in foro S.P.D.
>
> I would love a trivia contest based on Roman-themed shows and movies! What
> a
> neat idea!
> Let us know if you would like to receive suggestions.
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> L. LVCRETIVS CAVPO
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
> Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf
> Of Gaia Valeria Pulchra
> Sent: Saturday, January 15, 2011 10:24 AM
> To: Nova-Roma; BackAlley
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] The Coming Games and YOU!
>
> Salvete Omnes!
>
> I've wanted to send this message out for a while but I've been snowed in up
> here in Rhode island!
>
> I've been thinking about the games coming in April and in November. I
> thought I would reach out to everyone and see if I could get some feedback!
> I have some ideas that I'd like to throw out to everyone. Fist, for the
> chariot races, would anyone be interested in seeing a slide show of the
> races, done with miniatures on a grid? Maybe with some commentary on
> highlights? Does anyone feel like they would like a visual to go with the
> chariot race results?
>
> In regard to the gladiatorial and animal combats, would anyone like to see
> a
> system with more customization? I was thinking of a system, similar to
> other
> combat games, in which each gladiator or animal would have his personal
> attributes, and then the creator would have the option of dividing a set
> number of points among those attributes. This would make it a little more
> involved to crate a gladiator, but it would allow the outcome to be a
> little
> less random.
>
> I thought it might be fun to do a sort of trivia contest based on t.v.
> Shows
> and movies with a roman theme. If enough people are interested I could put
> together a list of movies etc that would be the source material so there
> would be time to study!
>
> I'd like to consider an "art" competition as well. The categories for
> entries would be very open, such as 2d art, 3d art, multi-media art and
> composition. If there is any interest in that I'd like to know as well!
>
> My final question is this, is there anyone out there playing "Little Big
> Planet" ? I've been working on a Rome themed level for a little while,
> tinkering really, and I'd like to know if there's anyone out there who
> might
> be interested in playing it come November?
>
> I'm personally really, really excited about these games and I can't wait to
> hear what everyone else is interested in doing! Tell me what you want to
> play and I'll do my best to make it happen for you!
>
> Have a fantastic day!
>
> Valete!
>
> This is how I roll...
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82805 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
>
>
> I call upon Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus, augur, to take the
> auspices for this newly-announced session.
>
> Cato
>
>
Salve Cato!

Having completed my own inauguration on the Ides and now being prepared to
fully assume the augurate, I shall take auspices as soon as possible and
notify you of the result.

Vale!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82806 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
<<--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
Ave

I really, really hope this isn't true because I find the idea an utter
 travesty and an insult to the gods.>>
 
 
Ave, Merula
 
Allow me to put your troubled mind at ease, as any friend would do for another friend.
 
 
 
<< Believe me, there is nothing personal in this. Indeed when Messalina resigned I emailed hr privately with my sympathies for her situation, her own ill-health and that of her mother and told her I would offer my prayers for hr as I did. She continues to be my face-book friend so I find the following even more difficult to write.>>
 
 
I thanked you then for your prayers and I thank you again. It would seem they have been answered! That should make you very happy. And yes, you were one of my Facebook friends, but you must not have noticed that I no longer have my Facebook account. Too many weirdos trying to friend me and poking me. I got rid of it last August.



<<I admit that when Messalina first said she was standing for political
office, I was horrified. As someone who has privately served Vesta for many
years now, I was appalled at the thought of the sacred office of Virgo
Maxima being besmirched and polluted by mixing it with politics. However I
listened to what Messalina had to say, accepted the reasons she gave and, in
fact, voted for her.>>
 
 
Well, I am glad to hear you overcame your "horror" enough to vote for me at the time. That was very big of you. 
 
 
 
<<Later I came to regret doing so. She frequently stated that, as a servant of
Vesta, she could not lie but was, at all times, truthful.  I found this very
admirable and, indeed, it was one of the reasons I voted for her. However,
once in office, she made several very derogatory remarks about other
citizens and when called upon to substantiate her remarks, her invariable
response was to the effect that we just had to accept what she said as she
could not lie. I was truly unhappy about anyone putting forth their personal
opinion as gospel truth by hiding behind the skirts of the Goddess Vesta.>>
 
 
Hmm, I guess you missed all those posts wherein I explained in detail what I said and did not say, and took apart all the accusations made against me. I have no intention of dredging up the past as it is over and done with, but suffice to say that as Sacerdos Vestalis, I am bound to tell the truth at all times. I did so to the best of my knowledge about any situation at the time. I never put forth anything as "gospel" truth, since I am not a Christian, nor, let me assure you, did I ever hide behind anyone's "skirts," or "pants" for that matter.  


<<However, it’s not any of that that makes me feel this way now.  You call her
a coup plotter and a liar. Whether we agree or disagree with that, the fact
remains Maxima Valeria Messalina resigned all her offices and her
citizenship.  The reasons she gave were her own ill health and that of her
mother. I, probably more than most, can empathise with that situation and,
as I said, offered my prayers for both of them.

I know others will argue that she resigned for political reasons. I don’t
believe it matters. Had she simply gone to the CP and said ‘due to my
present circumstances I can not fulfill all of my duties but I’ll do what I
can’ then no-one could have been so boorish as not to accept that. There
were others serving Vesta and I’m sure the CP could have worked out some way
of seeing that the duties were fulfilled, while making it as easy as
possible on Messalina. Instead she chose to abandon her position as Virgo
Maxima completely and to completely walk away from Nova Roma.
 
I admit Vesta happens to be my favourite goddess.  I happen to believe that
the role of Virgo Maxima is by far the most important one in Nova Roma.
That’s my opinion. No one can take an oath to publicly serve the gods, then
turn their back and walk away, however dire their circumstances and then
walk back in and take up the same position.
 
The gods can’t be picked up, laid down and then picked up again. To do that
is a total insult to them. Your life is dedicated to Vesta first and
foremost and ALL else second or it’s not – it’s as simple as that.  You take
an oath, that oath is binding. No on can treat Vesta like a plaything,
someone to serve when it suits and not when it doesn’t. No one can lay down
that sacred office, walk totally away from it and then stroll back when it
suits them.  What would have happened to any Vestal in ancient Rome, never
mind the Virgo Maxima, who abandoned her sacred office and indeed left Rome
completely?  Would she have been allowed to return to that office when it
suited her. Above all, would Vesta have been happy with a community that
allowed this>>
 
 
 
Yes, I would think that you more than most should feel the most empathy for my situation, even though at the time, I did not reveal it in any detail, as was my prerogative, but I will do so now for your benefit.
 
The only thing that could make me resign was the double whammy of bad news I received in just one week's time - first, my mother, who suffers from Alzheimer's, suffered a stroke and was left speechless and paralyzed, and then my own diagnosis of cancer, which gave very little hope of recovery. Under that heavy burden, I resigned from Nova Roma with great regret. Looking back now, I see it was done in haste as many have since pointed out to me, but my judgment at the time was clouded with despair.
 
Fortunately, I sought a second opinion and received a more favorable diagnosis, one wherein several months of treatments might just save my life. I am very beholden to you and to all who prayed to the Gods on my behalf, for it seems your prayers are being answered, for I am responding very well to the treatments. My mother, too, is doing much better. Thus, when I received an email from our new Pontifex Maximus, Sabinus, asking me if I could return to serve as Virgo Maxima, I said I could. However, because I am still in treatment, I am returning to serve only as Virgo Maxima, with my primary purpose being to finish the training of Aurelia Ibera and Maria Caeca as Vestals.

My life IS dedicated to Vesta first and foremost. That did not change. I never renounced my priesthood and I continued living my life as a Vestal. I have never ever treated Great Vesta as a "plaything". I am Her Vestal for life. My circumstances were not just "dire" - they were life-threatening! I had many things in my personal life that demanded my immediate attention, so I felt, at that moment, that I had to step away from Nova Roma.
 
Lentulus did suggest that I should keep my citizenship and I did ask for my citizenship back two weeks later. I was reinstated as a citizen in November. It was suggested to me that I could petition the Senate to have my citizenship reinstated more quickly, but I decided to wait the 60 days, during which time I would learn if the treatments the doctors were offering would do me any good. Fortunately, they did and continue to do so.
 
I never "abandoned" my Sacred Office as a Vestal. I resigned as Tribuna Plebis, Governor and Virgo Maxima. Those are two different things. And since you asked, in ancient Rome, there were times when Vestals became too ill to continue on in their duties. At such times, they were relieved of their duties and moved out of the Atrium Vestae and into the home of a Roman matron who was chosen to care for the ailing Vestal until she either recovered or passed on. When the Vestal was well again enough to resume her duties, she was brought back to the Atrium Vestae. This was a very common thing and happened at least once in every Vestal's life, for what girl could grow into womanhood without becoming seriously ill at least once in her lifetime? So you see, Mother Vesta, in all Her manifold wisdom, did allow for Vestals who became ill to leave and return to Her sacred community all the time.
 
I do so hope you are feeling better now. That is important to me, as it was when I defended you even before my friend, Maior, when she made some disparaging remarks about your lack of activity in Nova Roma, which you explained where due to your own ongoing health problems. I have kept you in my daily prayers to Great Vesta and shall continue to do so, that we may both make complete recoveries from what ails us.
 
Vale bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82807 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Cato Lentulo sal.

Well, in Smith's it says:

"He held his office for life (Dionys. IV.74), was not allowed to hold any civil or military dignity, and was at the same time exempted from all military and civil duties (Dionys. l.c.; Plut. Quaest. Rom. 63;º Liv. XL.42)."

If one considers - as your post might indicate - that being a senator is a civil "dignity", he would not have been allowed to be a senator.

In addition, Beard North & Price report that

"The rex sacrorum was subject to two sets of limitations, which are always assumed to go back to the founding of the Republic...first, he was absolutely excluded from playing any part in political life - he could not hold political office and he did not sit in the senate...as rex sacrorum, he was to become a member of one college [of priests] and not of the others, having a share in religious decision-making, but only in the pontifical sphere and only as one among others..." - Beard North & Price, "Religions of Rome" Vol. I, p. 56

This indicates that perhaps the rex sacrorum could only be a member of the College of Pontiffs and exercise no other religious function besides those inherent in his own office.

When the kings were overthrown, their sacred duties passed to the flamen dialis and the rex sacrorum while their civic powers passed to the consuls.

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82808 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Cato Tullio Germanico augur sal.

Gratias tibi ago.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > I call upon Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus, augur, to take the
> > auspices for this newly-announced session.
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> Salve Cato!
>
> Having completed my own inauguration on the Ides and now being prepared to
> fully assume the augurate, I shall take auspices as soon as possible and
> notify you of the result.
>
> Vale!
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82809 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Ave!

I would like to hear Pontifex Maximus Sabinus to respond to this.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Maxima Valeria Messallina <
maximavaleriamessallina@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> <<--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...<kirsteen.falconsfan%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
> Ave
>
> I really, really hope this isn't true because I find the idea an utter
> travesty and an insult to the gods.>>
>
>
> Ave, Merula
>
> Allow me to put your troubled mind at ease, as any friend would do for
> another friend.
>
>
>
>
> << Believe me, there is nothing personal in this. Indeed when Messalina
> resigned I emailed hr privately with my sympathies for her situation, her
> own ill-health and that of her mother and told her I would offer my prayers
> for hr as I did. She continues to be my face-book friend so I find the
> following even more difficult to write.>>
>
>
> I thanked you then for your prayers and I thank you again. It would
> seem they have been answered! That should make you very happy. And yes, you
> were one of my Facebook friends, but you must not have noticed that I no
> longer have my Facebook account. Too many weirdos trying to friend me and
> poking me. I got rid of it last August.
>
>
> <<I admit that when Messalina first said she was standing for political
> office, I was horrified. As someone who has privately served Vesta for many
> years now, I was appalled at the thought of the sacred office of Virgo
> Maxima being besmirched and polluted by mixing it with politics. However I
> listened to what Messalina had to say, accepted the reasons she gave and,
> in
> fact, voted for her.>>
>
>
> Well, I am glad to hear you overcame your "horror" enough to vote for me at
> the time. That was very big of you.
>
>
>
>
> <<Later I came to regret doing so. She frequently stated that, as a servant
> of
> Vesta, she could not lie but was, at all times, truthful. I found this
> very
> admirable and, indeed, it was one of the reasons I voted for her. However,
> once in office, she made several very derogatory remarks about other
> citizens and when called upon to substantiate her remarks, her invariable
> response was to the effect that we just had to accept what she said as she
> could not lie. I was truly unhappy about anyone putting forth their
> personal
> opinion as gospel truth by hiding behind the skirts of the Goddess Vesta.>>
>
>
> Hmm, I guess you missed all those posts wherein I explained in detail what
> I said and did not say, and took apart all the accusations made against me.
> I have no intention of dredging up the past as it is over and done with, but
> suffice to say that as Sacerdos Vestalis, I am bound to tell the truth at
> all times. I did so to the best of my knowledge about any situation at the
> time. I never put forth anything as "gospel" truth, since I am not a
> Christian, nor, let me assure you, did I ever hide behind anyone's "skirts,"
> or "pants" for that matter.
>
>
> <<However, it�s not any of that that makes me feel this way now. You call
> her
> a coup plotter and a liar. Whether we agree or disagree with that, the fact
> remains Maxima Valeria Messalina resigned all her offices and her
> citizenship. The reasons she gave were her own ill health and that of her
> mother. I, probably more than most, can empathise with that situation and,
> as I said, offered my prayers for both of them.
>
> I know others will argue that she resigned for political reasons. I don�t
> believe it matters. Had she simply gone to the CP and said �due to my
> present circumstances I can not fulfill all of my duties but I�ll do what I
> can� then no-one could have been so boorish as not to accept that. There
> were others serving Vesta and I�m sure the CP could have worked out some
> way
> of seeing that the duties were fulfilled, while making it as easy as
> possible on Messalina. Instead she chose to abandon her position as Virgo
> Maxima completely and to completely walk away from Nova Roma.
>
> I admit Vesta happens to be my favourite goddess. I happen to believe that
> the role of Virgo Maxima is by far the most important one in Nova Roma.
> That�s my opinion. No one can take an oath to publicly serve the gods, then
> turn their back and walk away, however dire their circumstances and then
> walk back in and take up the same position.
>
> The gods can�t be picked up, laid down and then picked up again. To do that
> is a total insult to them. Your life is dedicated to Vesta first and
> foremost and ALL else second or it�s not � it�s as simple as that. You
> take
> an oath, that oath is binding. No on can treat Vesta like a plaything,
> someone to serve when it suits and not when it doesn�t. No one can lay down
> that sacred office, walk totally away from it and then stroll back when it
> suits them. What would have happened to any Vestal in ancient Rome, never
> mind the Virgo Maxima, who abandoned her sacred office and indeed left Rome
> completely? Would she have been allowed to return to that office when it
> suited her. Above all, would Vesta have been happy with a community that
> allowed this>>
>
>
>
> Yes, I would think that you more than most should feel the most empathy for
> my situation, even though at the time, I did not reveal it in any detail, as
> was my prerogative, but I will do so now for your benefit.
>
> The only thing that could make me resign was the double whammy of bad news
> I received in just one week's time - first, my mother, who suffers from
> Alzheimer's, suffered a stroke and was left speechless and paralyzed, and
> then my own diagnosis of cancer, which gave very little hope of recovery.
> Under that heavy burden, I resigned from Nova Roma with great regret.
> Looking back now, I see it was done in haste as many have since pointed out
> to me, but my judgment at the time was clouded with despair.
>
> Fortunately, I sought a second opinion and received a more favorable
> diagnosis, one wherein several months of treatments might just save my life.
> I am very beholden to you and to all who prayed to the Gods on my behalf,
> for it seems your prayers are being answered, for I am responding very well
> to the treatments. My mother, too, is doing much better. Thus, when I
> received an email from our new Pontifex Maximus, Sabinus, asking me if I
> could return to serve as Virgo Maxima, I said I could. However, because I am
> still in treatment, I am returning to serve only as Virgo Maxima, with my
> primary purpose being to finish the training of Aurelia Ibera and Maria
> Caeca as Vestals.
>
> My life IS dedicated to Vesta first and foremost. That did not change. I
> never renounced my priesthood and I continued living my life as a Vestal. I
> have never ever treated Great Vesta as a "plaything". I am Her Vestal for
> life. My circumstances were not just "dire" - they were life-threatening! I
> had many things in my personal life that demanded my immediate attention, so
> I felt, at that moment, that I had to step away from Nova Roma.
>
> Lentulus did suggest that I should keep my citizenship and I did ask for my
> citizenship back two weeks later. I was reinstated as a citizen in November.
> It was suggested to me that I could petition the Senate to have my
> citizenship reinstated more quickly, but I decided to wait the 60 days,
> during which time I would learn if the treatments the doctors were offering
> would do me any good. Fortunately, they did and continue to do so.
>
> I never "abandoned" my Sacred Office as a Vestal. I resigned as Tribuna
> Plebis, Governor and Virgo Maxima. Those are two different things. And since
> you asked, in ancient Rome, there were times when Vestals became too ill to
> continue on in their duties. At such times, they were relieved of their
> duties and moved out of the Atrium Vestae and into the home of a Roman
> matron who was chosen to care for the ailing Vestal until she either
> recovered or passed on. When the Vestal was well again enough to resume her
> duties, she was brought back to the Atrium Vestae. This was a very common
> thing and happened at least once in every Vestal's life, for what girl could
> grow into womanhood without becoming seriously ill at least once in her
> lifetime? So you see, Mother Vesta, in all Her manifold wisdom, did
> allow for Vestals who became ill to leave and return to Her sacred community
> all the time.
>
> I do so hope you are feeling better now. That is important to me, as it was
> when I defended you even before my friend, Maior, when she made some
> disparaging remarks about your lack of activity in Nova Roma, which you
> explained where due to your own ongoing health problems. I have kept you in
> my daily prayers to Great Vesta and shall continue to do so, that we may
> both make complete recoveries from what ails us.
>
> Vale bene in pace Deorum,
>
> Maxima Valeria Messallina
> Sacerdos Vestalis
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82810 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Cato Valeriae Massalinae sal.

You wrote:

"At such times, they were relieved of their duties and moved out of
the Atrium Vestae and into the home of a Roman matron who was chosen to care for
the ailing Vestal until she either recovered or passed on. When the Vestal was
well again enough to resume her duties, she was brought back to the Atrium
Vestae. This was a very common thing and happened at least once in every
Vestal's life, for what girl could grow into womanhood without
becoming seriously ill at least once in her lifetime? So you see, Mother Vesta,
in all Her manifold wisdom, did allow for Vestals who became ill to leave and
return to Her sacred community all the time."

May I ask what ancient source you use for this idea?

Vale,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82811 From: C.Maria Caeca Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
C. Maria Caeca M. Valeriae Messalinae C. Equitio Catoni Consuli S. P. D.

Although I can't site any sources, I've read that Vestals who were seriously ill were also moved into private homes, to be under the care of a Roman Matron. there were a couple of reasons for this. First, if thee was any chance that the illness might be contagious, the Vestal had to be removed, because having 6 sick vestals would *not* be a good thing. the 2nd reason, as I understand it, was that men were not allowed in the Atrium Vestae, except for the Pontifex Maximus, and if the attending physician was male, he would not be able to attend to her. However ...the Vestal did not leave her community or he Republic, or even her city. She was simply moved to another house for care, and everyone knew that she would be back, if she recovered.

Valete quam optime,
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82812 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Cato Mariae Caecae sal.

While the reasoning is quite sound, it's also true that the Romans were not always necessarily concerned with what we might consider "reasonable" when it came to religious practices; this is the basis for my interest in an actual ancient source which supports the idea.

I appreciate your response, and please do not take this as an affront either to the intent or content of Valeria Messalina's post, merely an interest in the historicity.

Vale,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> C. Maria Caeca M. Valeriae Messalinae C. Equitio Catoni Consuli S. P. D.
>
> Although I can't site any sources, I've read that Vestals who were seriously ill were also moved into private homes, to be under the care of a Roman Matron. there were a couple of reasons for this. First, if thee was any chance that the illness might be contagious, the Vestal had to be removed, because having 6 sick vestals would *not* be a good thing. the 2nd reason, as I understand it, was that men were not allowed in the Atrium Vestae, except for the Pontifex Maximus, and if the attending physician was male, he would not be able to attend to her. However ...the Vestal did not leave her community or he Republic, or even her city. She was simply moved to another house for care, and everyone knew that she would be back, if she recovered.
>
> Valete quam optime,
> C. Maria Caeca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82813 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Salvete,

Pliny the Younger, Epist; VII: 19

Valete optime

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Mariae Caecae sal.
>
> While the reasoning is quite sound, it's also true that the Romans were not always necessarily concerned with what we might consider "reasonable" when it came to religious practices; this is the basis for my interest in an actual ancient source which supports the idea.
>
> I appreciate your response, and please do not take this as an affront either to the intent or content of Valeria Messalina's post, merely an interest in the historicity.
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@> wrote:
> >
> > C. Maria Caeca M. Valeriae Messalinae C. Equitio Catoni Consuli S. P. D.
> >
> > Although I can't site any sources, I've read that Vestals who were seriously ill were also moved into private homes, to be under the care of a Roman Matron. there were a couple of reasons for this. First, if thee was any chance that the illness might be contagious, the Vestal had to be removed, because having 6 sick vestals would *not* be a good thing. the 2nd reason, as I understand it, was that men were not allowed in the Atrium Vestae, except for the Pontifex Maximus, and if the attending physician was male, he would not be able to attend to her. However ...the Vestal did not leave her community or he Republic, or even her city. She was simply moved to another house for care, and everyone knew that she would be back, if she recovered.
> >
> > Valete quam optime,
> > C. Maria Caeca
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82814 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Cato Iuliae Aquilae sal.

The text says:

"Nam virgines, cum vi morbi atrio Vestae coguntur excedere, matronarum curae custodiaeque mandantur."

which, translated, means

"For a virgin, attacked by sickness, is forced to leave the temple of Vesta, placed under the care of the matrons, and freed."

This seems to imply that if they are sick, they are released from their vows and no longer serve as Vestals.

Vale,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete,
>
> Pliny the Younger, Epist; VII: 19
>
> Valete optime
>
> Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82815 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
>
>
>
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> With luck, I shall be able to respond to your earlier post later on, Cato.
>
>
> Cato Iuliae Aquilae sal.
>
>
>
> The text says:
>
> "Nam virgines, cum vi morbi atrio Vestae coguntur excedere, matronarum curae
> custodiaeque mandantur."
>
> which, translated, means
>
> "For a virgin, attacked by sickness, is forced to leave the temple of Vesta,
> placed under the care of the matrons, and freed."
>
> ATS: Huh? O Cato, this says: For the virgins [plural], when they are
> compelled by an attack of illness to leave the Atrium of Vesta, are entrusted
> to the care and safekeeping of matrons. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about
> freeing there; that would be something on the order of liberantur. There is
> also no word for vow present.
>
>
> This seems to imply that if they are sick, they are released from their vows
> and no longer serve as Vestals.
>
> ATS: Well, not if there is no word meaning free. One cannot make
> assumptions about texts in a language not one¹s own based on machine
> translations or even Loeb and other one printed ones. One must know the
> language, and know it well...
>
> Vale,
>
> Cato
>
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Salvete,
>> >
>> > Pliny the Younger, Epist; VII: 19
>> >
>> > Valete optime
>> >
>> > Julia
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82816 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Salvete omnes,
 
<<This seems to imply that if they are sick, they are released from their vows and no longer serve as Vestals.>>
 
 
Nothing I have ever read on the Vestals has ever stated or even implied that. Once a Vestal, always a Vestal until she served her 30 years -  unless she died of natural causes before the 30 years were done or she was interred alive as punishment.
 
Valete bene,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
Sacerdos Vestalis




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82817 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
Ave,

Is there a difference between a Vestal getting a flu or having Epilepsy or
MS or some other kind of chronic illness?

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 7:54 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
> wrote:

>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
> >
> > With luck, I shall be able to respond to your earlier post later on,
> Cato.
>
> >
> >
> > Cato Iuliae Aquilae sal.
> >
> >
> >
> > The text says:
> >
> > "Nam virgines, cum vi morbi atrio Vestae coguntur excedere, matronarum
> curae
> > custodiaeque mandantur."
> >
> > which, translated, means
> >
> > "For a virgin, attacked by sickness, is forced to leave the temple of
> Vesta,
> > placed under the care of the matrons, and freed."
> >
> > ATS: Huh? O Cato, this says: For the virgins [plural], when they are
> > compelled by an attack of illness to leave the Atrium of Vesta, are
> entrusted
> > to the care and safekeeping of matrons. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about
> > freeing there; that would be something on the order of liberantur. There
> is
> > also no word for vow present.
>
> >
> >
> > This seems to imply that if they are sick, they are released from their
> vows
> > and no longer serve as Vestals.
> >
> > ATS: Well, not if there is no word meaning free. One cannot make
> > assumptions about texts in a language not one�s own based on machine
> > translations or even Loeb and other one printed ones. One must know the
> > language, and know it well...
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
> Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%2540yahoogroups.com>> ,
>
> > "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Salvete,
> >> >
> >> > Pliny the Younger, Epist; VII: 19
> >> >
> >> > Valete optime
> >> >
> >> > Julia
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82818 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Salvete,

We are few and becoming fewer.

I see no reason why Nova Roma cannot have a Rex Sacorurm who is also a Senator. Our laws do not prohibit it and to adopt one now, that does, would be
an ex post facto violation of our constitution.


Valete

Ti. Galerius Paulinus




To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: cn_corn_lent@...
Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2011 18:21:21 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764






Cn. Lentulus K. Buteoni regi sacrorum sal.

My primary question, however, is still open. Does anyone know an ancient source that states if the rex sacrorum was actually forbidden from bearing another priesthood, at the same time? Because all what I found about the rex sacrorum that he could not be a magistrate.

But could he be a senator? In the Roman legal thinking the senatorship was not an office, and ineed, until the Dictator Sulla's legislation, a big part of the senators had never had held any magistracy, because the senators were permitted to adlect any private person whom they thought of as a decoration of the citizenry. Being a senator was not regarded neither as "civil" or "political". All generals and military ranks were senators, all high priests were (normally) senators. The senate was the highest religious body, because in most of the questions the CP just advised the senate, but the senate could decide otherwise.

So there is no clear division in Rome between "religious" and "civil". We can think of the senate as a religious body, but we can think of the senate as a "civil" body as well. Rome is not a good pleace for people who think in black and white. :-)

A great number of the senators, especially in the pre-Sullan times, were private citizens, who never participated in magistracies and day-to-day politics, and many of them were oscillating between the different factions, they did not have a political mission.

The Roman concept of "senate" was basically that this body is the "elite of the elites", the pool of "best men". It is logical to suppose that such a high priesthood than the rex sacrorum had to right to attend - perhaps not to vote in such a body. As political power in the Roman legal thinking was tied to magistracies, the rex sacrorum's ban from politics, for a Roman, would automatically be understood as ban from holding magistracies, but not a ban from the senate -- since we know of the flamen Dialis that he was ex officio a member of the senate.

I don't know, it is how seems logical to me. I'm just thinking and waiting for others' knowledge. Mine has ended here.

--- Lun 17/1/11, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...> ha scritto:

Da: David Kling <tau.athanasios@...>
Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Luned� 17 gennaio 2011, 18:59



Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus Cn. Cornelio Lentulo salutem dicit

In antiquity I presume that the Rex Sacorurm would have been selected at

early in a man's life before he would have started his political life.

Therefore, it would not have been an issue of him being both a senator and

Rex Sacrorum, because he would never have attained the role of senator. In

Nova Roma we are very different from antiquity.

We are a very young organization. By the time Rome had a Rex Sacrorum they

were already very established as a community. We have a handful of active

people.

Simply put we are doing the best we can with what we have.

Vale;

Modianus

On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 11:53 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <

cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>

>

> Cn. Lentulus Q. Metello omnibusque sal.

>

> After studying the historical requirements of the rex sacrorum, I concluded

> that the rex sacrorum was banned from politics, but nor from holding another

> priesthood.

>

> Priesthood and magistracy are not equally "offices". Separately, one can

> call any priesthood as office, but when it comes to a precise analysis, a

> priesthood differs from a political magistracies in several and many points.

>

> So, while I see a strong and important historical tradition that the rex

> sacrorum must be forbidden to hold any magistracy, I see no requirement that

> he could not be flamen or augur. Especially since we need people to fill

> these positions.

>

> It's a hard and difficult question when it comes to senatorial status. A

> Roman senatorship has nothing to do with modern American senatorship.

> American senators are represenative delegates of the people (states), they

> have a term of office etc. Roman senators are senators for life, it's a rank

> and status. Roman senators have no "duty", and no "office". They can advise

> the magistrate, but they can refrain from it, as well. Being senator is

> indeed somewhat political, but in a lot it depends on the individual

> senator.

>

> I have never read or heard anything about the rex sacrorum's and senatorial

> status' connection.

>

> Was the rex sacrorum banned from the senate? Because the flamen Dialis,

> another priest who could not bear political posts, was outright invited to

> the senate and an ex officio member.

>

> Does anyone know about whether the rex sacrorum could have been senator or

> not?

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82819 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-01-17
Subject: Re: CP Question
C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> This seems to imply that if they are sick, they are released from their vows and no longer serve as Vestals.

It is not the meaning of this sentence. The main idea is "Virgines matronarum curiae et custodiae mandantur". The sentence means only that the vestals are left in care and protect of matrons. (Do not forget that the vestals were daughters from the patrician families of Rome, so those matrons, id est patrician wives and mothers, are naturally the only to give vestals care and protect). So that implies they are always vestals even sick but they have to go away, during their sickness, the atrium Vestae. The main idea of the sentence is that, and as you can notice from the beginning to the end of the phrase the subject is "virgines", id est "vestals" in this context. So from the beginning to the end of the sentence the vestals main vestals.

Now the coordonate sentence "cum vi morbi atrio Vestae coguntur excedere" it is only the reason for what they are left in care and protect of matrons. The reason is they had to leave the atrium Vestae when they are ill. Excedere atrio = to quit the atrium. Why they quit? Because they are ill. "vi morbi" = because of the sickness.

So, during they are ill as they have to quit the atrium Vestae, they are left in care and protect of the matrons.

So that sentence does not imply that the sick vestals have to abdicate their sacred position and it means the contrary of that; as they are always vestals they are left in the care and protect of matrons.

And if you read the beginning of the Pliny's letter you read:

"Angit me Fanniae valetudo. I am troubled by the sick of Fannia. Contraxit hanc, dum adsidet Iuniae virgini, sponte primum (est enim adfinis) deinde etiam ex auctoritate pontificum. She contracted it in looking after the vestal Junia, first spontaneously (she is indeed connected with her) then by the command of the pontiffs.

And now you have the sentence we are talking about.

Junia vestal being sick was left in the care of Fannia, but Fannia contracted the sick of the vestal Junia.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XV Kalendas Februarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82820 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2011-01-18
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Q Caecilius Metellus Cn Lentulo s.d.

The question of whether a rex sacrorum could be a senator is a good one,
certainly, and one to which I have seen no satisfactory answer. You
point to the history of the flamonium Diale, which in itself is not as
complete as might be desired, in that the flamen Dialis was seated in
the Senate by virtue of his office. That goes without dispute. Yet, I
think we are dealing with only part of the issue here in looking to the
flamonium Diale. There is a more important question, specifically, in
the case of the flamonium Diale. We know, as you rightly state and as
is amply demonstrated, the flamen Dialis was *present* in the Senate.
If memory of my recent reading of Vanggaard's work serves, I recall that
the flamen was also seated 'in sella curule'. But what is not said, is
whether the flamen himself was able to *vote* in the Senate. If,
perhaps, you have a source addressing that issue, it would surely be
appreciated.

Thus, let me return to your original question. Could a rex sacrificulus
be a senator? Following the viewpoint that our ancestors viewed it as a
dignity, and not an office, perhaps he certainly could. I know of no
source which directly handles that question. One might expect that the
rex sacrificulus might be under circumstances similar to the flamen
Dialis in this regard, but the simple answer is that it remains, to the
best of my knowledge, unknown.

With that said, another statement of yours needs address. You stated:
"Priesthood and magistracy are not equally 'offices'. Separately, one
can call any priesthood as office, but when it comes to a precise
analysis, a priesthood differs from a political magistracies in several
and many points." Certainly there are differences between what we see
as priesthoods and what we see as magistracies. Notwithstanding that,
though, is one simple point. It was the duty of those we call
magistrates to see to the safety and welfare of the Res Publica. It was
the duty of those we call priests to see to the safety and welfare of
the Res Publica, for, to a Roman, the continued safety and welfare of
the Res Publica was dependent on the continued satisfaction of the gods
with the Senate and the Roman people. There existed, and still exist,
differences in the means by which this was done, and the specific manner
in which this was done, but this is the proverbial tie that binds, for
which reason, as a matter of course, there was no separation between
what we have come to call "church and state", an issue to perhaps be
handled in another thread, or even on another mailing list altogether.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82821 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-18
Subject: Re: CP Question
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

oops!

Thank you to each of you who pointed out the mistranslation and supplied a correct one.

Valete bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
>
> > This seems to imply that if they are sick, they are released from their vows and no longer serve as Vestals.
>
> It is not the meaning of this sentence. The main idea is "Virgines matronarum curiae et custodiae mandantur". The sentence means only that the vestals are left in care and protect of matrons. (Do not forget that the vestals were daughters from the patrician families of Rome, so those matrons, id est patrician wives and mothers, are naturally the only to give vestals care and protect). So that implies they are always vestals even sick but they have to go away, during their sickness, the atrium Vestae. The main idea of the sentence is that, and as you can notice from the beginning to the end of the phrase the subject is "virgines", id est "vestals" in this context. So from the beginning to the end of the sentence the vestals main vestals.
>
> Now the coordonate sentence "cum vi morbi atrio Vestae coguntur excedere" it is only the reason for what they are left in care and protect of matrons. The reason is they had to leave the atrium Vestae when they are ill. Excedere atrio = to quit the atrium. Why they quit? Because they are ill. "vi morbi" = because of the sickness.
>
> So, during they are ill as they have to quit the atrium Vestae, they are left in care and protect of the matrons.
>
> So that sentence does not imply that the sick vestals have to abdicate their sacred position and it means the contrary of that; as they are always vestals they are left in the care and protect of matrons.
>
> And if you read the beginning of the Pliny's letter you read:
>
> "Angit me Fanniae valetudo. I am troubled by the sick of Fannia. Contraxit hanc, dum adsidet Iuniae virgini, sponte primum (est enim adfinis) deinde etiam ex auctoritate pontificum. She contracted it in looking after the vestal Junia, first spontaneously (she is indeed connected with her) then by the command of the pontiffs.
>
> And now you have the sentence we are talking about.
>
> Junia vestal being sick was left in the care of Fannia, but Fannia contracted the sick of the vestal Junia.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. XV Kalendas Februarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82822 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-18
Subject: a.d. XV Kal. Feb.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XV Kalendas Februarius; haec dies comitialis est.


"These are the memorable wars which Romulus waged. His failure to
subdue any more of the neighboring nations seems to have been due to
his sudden death, which happened while he was still in the vigor of
his age for warlike achievements. There are many different stories
concerning it. Those who give a rather fabulous account of his life
say that while he was haranguing his men in the camp, sudden darkness
rushed down out of a clear sky and a violent storm burst, after which
he was nowhere to be seen; and these writers believe that he was
caught up into heaven by his father, Mars. But those who write the
more plausible accounts say that he was killed by his own people; and
the reason they allege for his murder is that he released without the
common consent, contrary to custom, the hostages he had taken from the
Veientes, and that he no longer comported himself in the same manner
toward the original citizens and toward those who were enrolled later,
but showed greater honor to the former and slighted the latter, and
also because of his great cruelty in the punishment of delinquents
(for instance, he had ordered a group of Romans who were accused of
brigandage against the neighboring peoples to be hurled down the
precipice [the Tarpeian Rock] after he had sat alone in judgment upon
them, although they were neither of mean birth nor few in number), but
chiefly because he now seemed to be harsh and arbitrary and to be
exercising his power more like a tyrant than a king. For these
reasons, they say, the patricians formed a conspiracy against him and
resolved to slay him; and having carried out the deed in the
senate-house, they divided his body into several pieces, that it might
not be seen, and then came out, each one hiding his part of the body
under his robes, and afterwards burying it in secret. Others say that
while haranguing the people he was slain by the new citizens of Rome,
and that they undertook the murder at the time when the rain and the
darkness occurred, the assembly of the people being then dispersed and
their chief left without his guard. And for this reason, they say, the
day on which this event happened got its name from the flight of the
people and is called Populifugia down to our times. Be that as it
may, the incidents that occurred by the direction of Heaven in
connection with this man's conception and death would seem to give no
small authority to the view of those who make gods of mortal men and
place the souls of illustrious persons in heaven. For they say that at
the time when his mother was violated, whether by some man of are by a
god, there was a total eclipse of the sun and a general darkness as in
the night covered the earth, and that at his death the same thing
happened. Such, then, is reported to have been the death of Romulus,
who built Rome and was chosen by her citizens as their first king. He
left no issue, and after reigning thirty-seven years, died in the
fifty-fifth year of his age; for he was very young when he obtained
the rule, being no more than eighteen years old, as is agreed by all
who have written his history." - Dionysius of Halicaenassus, "Roman
Antiquities" 2.56



"I sing of golden-throned Hera whom Rhea bore. Queen of the immortals
is she, surpassing all in beauty: she is the sister and the wife of
loud-thundering Zeus, the glorious one whom all theblessed throughout
high Olympus reverence and honor even as Zeus who delights in
thunder." - Homeric Hymn to Hera

"For Hera sent the Sphinx, whose mother was Echidna and her father
Typhon; and she [the Sphinx] had the face of a woman, the breast and
feet and tail of a lion, and the wings of a bird. And having learned a
riddle from the Muses, she sat on Mount Phicium, and propounded it to
the Thebans. And the riddle was this:-- What is that which has one
voice and yet becomes four-footed and two-footed and three-footed? Now
the Thebans were in possession of an oracle which declared that they
should be rid of the Sphinx whenever they had read her riddle; so they
often met and discussed the answer, and when they could not find it
the Sphinx used to snatch away one of them and gobble him up." -
Apollodorus, Library and Epitome 3.5.8

"So he [Zeus] sat down there upon his throne; but Hera saw, and failed
not to note how silver-footed Thetis, daughter of the old man of the
sea, had taken counsel with him. Forthwith then she spoke to Zeus, son
of Cronos, with mocking words: Who of the gods, crafty one, has now
again taken counsel with you? Always is it your pleasure to hold
aloof from me, and to give judgments which you have pondered in
secret, nor have you ever brought yourself with a ready heart to
declare to me the matter which you devise. In answer to her spoke the
father of men and gods: Hera, do not hope to know all my words: hard
will they prove for you, though you are my wife. Whatever it is
fitting for you to hear, this none other shall know before you,
whether of gods or men; but what I wish to devise apart from the gods,
of all this do not in any way inquire nor ask. In answer to him spoke
the ox-eyed lady Hera..." - Homer, Iliad 1.535-550

In Greece this day was known as the Theogamia of Hera. Both sister
and wife of Zeus, Hera is queen of the gods. She was the third
daughter of Rhea and Cronos, called the "gold-shod Hera". Like her
brothers and sisters (all but Zeus and possibly Poseidon) she was
swallowed by her father as she left her mother's womb, and
regurgitated later when Rhea got tired of having her children
swallowed. After her regurgitation Hera was tended to by the three
Naiades Euryboea, Prosymna, and Acraea. At the Heraeum (an important
temple of Hera's) the environs of the sanctuary is called Euryboea,
the land beneath the Heraeum Prosymna, and the hill opposite the
temple is named Acraea after the three nurses' attendence on the goddess.

The Greeks revered her as protector of marriage, especially married
women. This may be because she had such a difficult marriage herself.
Zeus was not the least bit faithful, always succumbing to his lust for
other women - mortal as well as immortal. Hera herself, however, was
always faithful despite the repeated attentions of others trying to
take her away. Hera was not the first wife of Zeus. His first wife
was Metis, goddess of wisdom. Hesoid believed that she knew more
things than the gods and men put together. Themis was Zeus's second
wife. She was the law that regulated both physical and moral order.
Even after she was replaced by Hera, Themis continued to remain near
Zeus as an advisor, and was always revered on Olympus. She was Zeus's
official consort; Hera's rage however, was a result of the dramatics
that took place throughout their marriage.

Once when Zeus was being partcularly overbearing to the other gods,
Hera convinced them to join in a revolt. Her part in the revolt was to
drug Zeus, and in this she was successful. The gods then bound the
sleeping Zeus to a couch taking care to tie many knots. This done they
began to quarrel over the next step. One of the Hecatonchires
("hundred-handed ones"), Briareus, overheard the arguements. Still
full of gratitude to Zeus for having rescued him from Tartarus,
Briareus slipped in and was able to quickly untie the many knots. Zeus
sprang from the couch and grapped up his thuderbolt. The gods fell to
their knees begging and pleading for mercy --- except for Hera, who
stood aloof and refused to acknowledge him. In fury, Zeus seized Hera
and hung her from the sky with gold chains. She wept in pain all night
but, none of the others dared to interfere. Her weeping kept Zeus up
and the next morning he agreed to release her if she would swear never
to rebel again. She had little choice but to agree. While she never
again rebelled, she often intrigued against Zeus's plans and she was
often able to outwit him.

Hera's sacred animals are the cow and the peacock, a symbol of pride.
Her epithets are Agreie (of Argos), Akraia (of the Heights), Boophis
(Cow/Ox-Eyed), Gamelia (of Marriage), Khera (the Widow), Lakinia,
Leukolenos (White-Armed), Limenia, Nympheuomene (Led as a Bride), Pais
(Maiden), Parthenos (Virgin), Teleia (Accomplisher), Zygia (Uniter).

Hera's counterpart in Rome is Iuno.


Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82823 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-01-18
Subject: Re: CP Question
Ave Sulla,

Good question.

In Nocte Atticae, Attic Nights,
Aulus Gellius nicely covers the selection process of a Vestal including in Liber I 12:3:
" item quae lingua debili sensuve aurium deminuta aliave qua corporis labe insignita sit; "
"she must be free too from any impediment in her speech, must not have impaired hearing, or be marked by any other bodily defect"

But once the Vestal candidate is "taken" by the Pontifex Maximus; "I take thee, [...] as one who has fulfilled all the legal requirements, to be priestess of Vesta, to perform the rites which it is lawful for a Vestal to perform for the Roman people, the Quirites" she is a Vestal for Thirty years. (cit. Aulus Gellius I, 12)
She may stay through old age until death and she will always be Vestal. She is not a Vestal if she leaves the priesthood after she has served 30 years or is deemed unchaste and buried alive. 

When ill with a communicable disease or one that Roman medicine would consider disease due to pollution or corruption, then the Vestal would be quarantined and relieved of her duties until she is recovered and free of disease or until she dies whether acute or chronic. 
Purity and Purification  rituals are of the utmost importance in attending to Vesta. 

Multiple sclerosis is a disease of adulthood that is usually mild at first and onset is about 30 to 40.  Given that the life expectancy was much younger than today there is a possibility that it would be diagnosed as a disease of old age. If it occurred while the Vestal was active then her quarantine would depend upon the diagnosis of the physician. 

Arthritis, heart disease, diabetes,  a limp due to an accident would probably not keep a Vestal from her duties.  Open Sores and rashes on the skin, mouth ulcers, necrotizing cancers, leprosy, TB etc. are examples of disease processes that a Vestal would be quarantined for.  
But those such afflicted would always be Vestals and due the respect and care as a chosen one of Vesta. 

How epilepsy was viewed depended upon the individual, his/her social standing, his/her politics etc.  It could have been seen as receiving divine messages to possession of a negative sort to an actual illness. Again here too a lot would depend upon the physician's  diagnosis. 
However with a Vestal, epilepsy would probably be viewed as divine; the Vestals were also seen as mystical priestesses able to perform miracles. ( look it up, it is quite interesting).

It is important to remember that Ancient Romans believed that Vesta chose the Vestals and that includes everything that comes with it. Since the Vestal is not a god she will still have the physical attributes and infirmities of a human female. But she is a Vestal and as such she also has the support and care of other Vestals. 

In modern times, and in true Roman fashion, we have adapted, and the qualifications for Vestals are altered as well.  The main requirement is Celibacy rather than Virginity. 
As for infirmity or disability the Collegia respects the Disability Act and as long as the candidate is able to attend to the duties of the position than they can be considered - providing she meets the other requirements. 


Vale,

Julia




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave,
>
> Is there a difference between a Vestal getting a flu or having Epilepsy or
> MS or some other kind of chronic illness?
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 7:54 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
> > wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> > S.P.D.
> > >
> > > With luck, I shall be able to respond to your earlier post later on,
> > Cato.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cato Iuliae Aquilae sal.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The text says:
> > >
> > > "Nam virgines, cum vi morbi atrio Vestae coguntur excedere, matronarum
> > curae
> > > custodiaeque mandantur."
> > >
> > > which, translated, means
> > >
> > > "For a virgin, attacked by sickness, is forced to leave the temple of
> > Vesta,
> > > placed under the care of the matrons, and freed."
> > >
> > > ATS: Huh? O Cato, this says: For the virgins [plural], when they are
> > > compelled by an attack of illness to leave the Atrium of Vesta, are
> > entrusted
> > > to the care and safekeeping of matrons. There is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about
> > > freeing there; that would be something on the order of liberantur. There
> > is
> > > also no word for vow present.
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > This seems to imply that if they are sick, they are released from their
> > vows
> > > and no longer serve as Vestals.
> > >
> > > ATS: Well, not if there is no word meaning free. One cannot make
> > > assumptions about texts in a language not one¹s own based on machine
> > > translations or even Loeb and other one printed ones. One must know the
> > > language, and know it well...
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > >
> > > Vale, et valete.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
> > Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%2540yahoogroups.com>> ,
> >
> > > "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@> wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > Salvete,
> > >> >
> > >> > Pliny the Younger, Epist; VII: 19
> > >> >
> > >> > Valete optime
> > >> >
> > >> > Julia
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82824 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-18
Subject: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Ex officio consularis Gai Equitii Catoni

The auspices having been taken, and interpreted as favorable by the augur Tullius Valerianus Germanicus, I hereby announce my intent to call the Senate of Nova Roma to order on a.d. XI Kalendas Februarius (22 January).

The session shall consider, but is not limited to, consideration of our actions in and governance of the provinces, legal activity that has taken place in the past, the holding of elections to fill vacancies in magistracies, the appointment of a CFO, the Magna Mater Project, and other issues regarding our by-laws.

Optime valete,

C. Equitius Cato
Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82825 From: Charlie Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: "When Rome Ruled" on the National Geographic Channel
Salve,

National Geographic Channel is showing a new (2011) series called "When Rome
Ruled". The first episode is "The Birth of Rome" and second one is "Ancient
Superpower". There are 7 parts. But these two episode's are great. Here is
the link to NatGeo's Rome page.

http://tinyurl.com/6abk593

Vale,
Quintus Servilius Priscus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82826 From: Sabinus Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
SALVE ET SALVETE!

In order to save some space I invite all of you to see my information and opinion on the CP list:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/collegium_pontificum_nr/

VALETE,
Sabinus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave!
>
> I would like to hear Pontifex Maximus Sabinus to respond to this.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Maxima Valeria Messallina <
> maximavaleriamessallina@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <<--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...<kirsteen.falconsfan%40gmail.com>>
> > wrote:
> > Ave
> >
> > I really, really hope this isn't true because I find the idea an utter
> > travesty and an insult to the gods.>>
> >
> >
> > Ave, Merula
> >
> > Allow me to put your troubled mind at ease, as any friend would do for
> > another friend.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > << Believe me, there is nothing personal in this. Indeed when Messalina
> > resigned I emailed hr privately with my sympathies for her situation, her
> > own ill-health and that of her mother and told her I would offer my prayers
> > for hr as I did. She continues to be my face-book friend so I find the
> > following even more difficult to write.>>
> >
> >
> > I thanked you then for your prayers and I thank you again. It would
> > seem they have been answered! That should make you very happy. And yes, you
> > were one of my Facebook friends, but you must not have noticed that I no
> > longer have my Facebook account. Too many weirdos trying to friend me and
> > poking me. I got rid of it last August.
> >
> >
> > <<I admit that when Messalina first said she was standing for political
> > office, I was horrified. As someone who has privately served Vesta for many
> > years now, I was appalled at the thought of the sacred office of Virgo
> > Maxima being besmirched and polluted by mixing it with politics. However I
> > listened to what Messalina had to say, accepted the reasons she gave and,
> > in
> > fact, voted for her.>>
> >
> >
> > Well, I am glad to hear you overcame your "horror" enough to vote for me at
> > the time. That was very big of you.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <<Later I came to regret doing so. She frequently stated that, as a servant
> > of
> > Vesta, she could not lie but was, at all times, truthful. I found this
> > very
> > admirable and, indeed, it was one of the reasons I voted for her. However,
> > once in office, she made several very derogatory remarks about other
> > citizens and when called upon to substantiate her remarks, her invariable
> > response was to the effect that we just had to accept what she said as she
> > could not lie. I was truly unhappy about anyone putting forth their
> > personal
> > opinion as gospel truth by hiding behind the skirts of the Goddess Vesta.>>
> >
> >
> > Hmm, I guess you missed all those posts wherein I explained in detail what
> > I said and did not say, and took apart all the accusations made against me.
> > I have no intention of dredging up the past as it is over and done with, but
> > suffice to say that as Sacerdos Vestalis, I am bound to tell the truth at
> > all times. I did so to the best of my knowledge about any situation at the
> > time. I never put forth anything as "gospel" truth, since I am not a
> > Christian, nor, let me assure you, did I ever hide behind anyone's "skirts,"
> > or "pants" for that matter.
> >
> >
> > <<However, it's not any of that that makes me feel this way now. You call
> > her
> > a coup plotter and a liar. Whether we agree or disagree with that, the fact
> > remains Maxima Valeria Messalina resigned all her offices and her
> > citizenship. The reasons she gave were her own ill health and that of her
> > mother. I, probably more than most, can empathise with that situation and,
> > as I said, offered my prayers for both of them.
> >
> > I know others will argue that she resigned for political reasons. I don't
> > believe it matters. Had she simply gone to the CP and said `due to my
> > present circumstances I can not fulfill all of my duties but I'll do what I
> > can' then no-one could have been so boorish as not to accept that. There
> > were others serving Vesta and I'm sure the CP could have worked out some
> > way
> > of seeing that the duties were fulfilled, while making it as easy as
> > possible on Messalina. Instead she chose to abandon her position as Virgo
> > Maxima completely and to completely walk away from Nova Roma.
> >
> > I admit Vesta happens to be my favourite goddess. I happen to believe that
> > the role of Virgo Maxima is by far the most important one in Nova Roma.
> > That's my opinion. No one can take an oath to publicly serve the gods, then
> > turn their back and walk away, however dire their circumstances and then
> > walk back in and take up the same position.
> >
> > The gods can't be picked up, laid down and then picked up again. To do that
> > is a total insult to them. Your life is dedicated to Vesta first and
> > foremost and ALL else second or it's not – it's as simple as that. You
> > take
> > an oath, that oath is binding. No on can treat Vesta like a plaything,
> > someone to serve when it suits and not when it doesn't. No one can lay down
> > that sacred office, walk totally away from it and then stroll back when it
> > suits them. What would have happened to any Vestal in ancient Rome, never
> > mind the Virgo Maxima, who abandoned her sacred office and indeed left Rome
> > completely? Would she have been allowed to return to that office when it
> > suited her. Above all, would Vesta have been happy with a community that
> > allowed this>>
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, I would think that you more than most should feel the most empathy for
> > my situation, even though at the time, I did not reveal it in any detail, as
> > was my prerogative, but I will do so now for your benefit.
> >
> > The only thing that could make me resign was the double whammy of bad news
> > I received in just one week's time - first, my mother, who suffers from
> > Alzheimer's, suffered a stroke and was left speechless and paralyzed, and
> > then my own diagnosis of cancer, which gave very little hope of recovery.
> > Under that heavy burden, I resigned from Nova Roma with great regret.
> > Looking back now, I see it was done in haste as many have since pointed out
> > to me, but my judgment at the time was clouded with despair.
> >
> > Fortunately, I sought a second opinion and received a more favorable
> > diagnosis, one wherein several months of treatments might just save my life.
> > I am very beholden to you and to all who prayed to the Gods on my behalf,
> > for it seems your prayers are being answered, for I am responding very well
> > to the treatments. My mother, too, is doing much better. Thus, when I
> > received an email from our new Pontifex Maximus, Sabinus, asking me if I
> > could return to serve as Virgo Maxima, I said I could. However, because I am
> > still in treatment, I am returning to serve only as Virgo Maxima, with my
> > primary purpose being to finish the training of Aurelia Ibera and Maria
> > Caeca as Vestals.
> >
> > My life IS dedicated to Vesta first and foremost. That did not change. I
> > never renounced my priesthood and I continued living my life as a Vestal. I
> > have never ever treated Great Vesta as a "plaything". I am Her Vestal for
> > life. My circumstances were not just "dire" - they were life-threatening! I
> > had many things in my personal life that demanded my immediate attention, so
> > I felt, at that moment, that I had to step away from Nova Roma.
> >
> > Lentulus did suggest that I should keep my citizenship and I did ask for my
> > citizenship back two weeks later. I was reinstated as a citizen in November.
> > It was suggested to me that I could petition the Senate to have my
> > citizenship reinstated more quickly, but I decided to wait the 60 days,
> > during which time I would learn if the treatments the doctors were offering
> > would do me any good. Fortunately, they did and continue to do so.
> >
> > I never "abandoned" my Sacred Office as a Vestal. I resigned as Tribuna
> > Plebis, Governor and Virgo Maxima. Those are two different things. And since
> > you asked, in ancient Rome, there were times when Vestals became too ill to
> > continue on in their duties. At such times, they were relieved of their
> > duties and moved out of the Atrium Vestae and into the home of a Roman
> > matron who was chosen to care for the ailing Vestal until she either
> > recovered or passed on. When the Vestal was well again enough to resume her
> > duties, she was brought back to the Atrium Vestae. This was a very common
> > thing and happened at least once in every Vestal's life, for what girl could
> > grow into womanhood without becoming seriously ill at least once in her
> > lifetime? So you see, Mother Vesta, in all Her manifold wisdom, did
> > allow for Vestals who became ill to leave and return to Her sacred community
> > all the time.
> >
> > I do so hope you are feeling better now. That is important to me, as it was
> > when I defended you even before my friend, Maior, when she made some
> > disparaging remarks about your lack of activity in Nova Roma, which you
> > explained where due to your own ongoing health problems. I have kept you in
> > my daily prayers to Great Vesta and shall continue to do so, that we may
> > both make complete recoveries from what ails us.
> >
> > Vale bene in pace Deorum,
> >
> > Maxima Valeria Messallina
> > Sacerdos Vestalis
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82827 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Cato Iulio Sabino pontifico maximo omnibusque in foro SPD

Once more I am impressed by our pontifex maximus' steady, calm assessments. It does the College great honor to have a truly reasonable mouthpiece at its helm.

My comment is only that while the call for new auspices *may have been* unnecessary, my sole concern was that absolutely no shadow of doubt be held over the validity of a session of the Senate.

Vale et valete,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82828 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
SALVE CONSUL!


--- On Wed, 1/19/11, gequitiuscato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:




My comment is only that while the call for new auspices *may have been* unnecessary, my sole concern was that absolutely no shadow of doubt be held over the validity of a session of the Senate.>>>
 
I understand your point of view, concern and decision in such situations when the things are not very clear. Indeed it was the only available solution.
 
VALE,
Sabinus

Vale et valete,

Cato













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82829 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: Calling the Senate to order - Ianuarius 2764
Cato Tulliae Scholasticae omnibusque in foro SPD

I have re-read the law carefully, and the provision to which you refer in the constitution only relates to an office falling vacant mid-term:

"Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy." - Const. N.R. IV.A

This isn't mid-term. The quaestorships were never filled after the "general" election. So the Senate will, in fact, be asked to approve an SCU allowing the consuls to appoint quaestors. We have seven vacancies, of which I hope to fill at least three.

In fact, I hereby publicly call on those who fulfill the qualifications necessary write to me to express interest in the quaestorship. We have several projects in the running which will require the work of quaestors, much too much for Appia Domitia Taura to handle alone!

Perhaps, Tullia Scholastica, you would be interested in taking up a quaestorship yourself?

Vale et valete,

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > Ex officio consularis Gai Equitii Catoni
> >
> > ...Equiti Catonis, genitive case...
> >
> > The auspices having been taken, and interpreted as favorable by the augur
> > Fabius
> > Buteo Modianus, I hereby announce my intent to call the Senate of Nova Roma to
> > order on a.d. XV Kalendas Februarius (18 January).
> >
> > ATS: Ummm...errrrr....Cato dear, isn¹t Venator supposed to call the
> > Senate in January? Your turn comes in February.
> >
> > The session shall consider, but is not limited to, consideration of our
> > actions
> > in and governance of the provinces, legal activity that has taken place in the
> > past,
> >
> > ATS: And what legal activity might that be? Inquiring minds want to
> > know.
> >
> >
> > the appointment of quaestors,
> >
> > ATS: Appointment of quaestors? Why should we appoint quaestores? Is
> > anyone in the current oligarchy aware that this sort of thing is supposed to
> > be accomplished by (horrors!) a dreadful concept called...elections? And who
> > might be the chosen few? Anyone left on the BA who doesn¹t yet hold a
> > position?
> >
> > the appointment of a CFO,
> >
> > ATS: And the nominees are...
> >
> >
> > and other issues
> > regarding our by-laws.
> >
> > Optime valete,
> >
> > C. Equitius Cato
> > Consul
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82830 From: Delphicapollo Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Salve!

I am curious: Why does the CP list only show three months of activity,
at the bottom of the page.

Is this a new List? If so, are the Archives of the old CP list safely
tucked away somewhere?

Vale
S E M Troianus

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2011, at 7:01 AM, "Sabinus" <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:

> SALVE ET SALVETE!
>
> In order to save some space I invite all of you to see my
> information and opinion on the CP list:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/collegium_pontificum_nr/
>
> VALETE,
> Sabinus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine
> <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
> >
> > Ave!
> >
> > I would like to hear Pontifex Maximus Sabinus to respond to this.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 17, 2011 at 5:06 PM, Maxima Valeria Messallina <
> > maximavaleriamessallina@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > <<--- On Mon, 1/17/11, Kirsteen Wright
> <kirsteen.falconsfan@...<kirsteen.falconsfan%40gmail.com>>
> > > wrote:
> > > Ave
> > >
> > > I really, really hope this isn't true because I find the idea an
> utter
> > > travesty and an insult to the gods.>>
> > >
> > >
> > > Ave, Merula
> > >
> > > Allow me to put your troubled mind at ease, as any friend would
> do for
> > > another friend.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > << Believe me, there is nothing personal in this. Indeed when
> Messalina
> > > resigned I emailed hr privately with my sympathies for her
> situation, her
> > > own ill-health and that of her mother and told her I would offer
> my prayers
> > > for hr as I did. She continues to be my face-book friend so I
> find the
> > > following even more difficult to write.>>
> > >
> > >
> > > I thanked you then for your prayers and I thank you again. It
> would
> > > seem they have been answered! That should make you very happy.
> And yes, you
> > > were one of my Facebook friends, but you must not have noticed
> that I no
> > > longer have my Facebook account. Too many weirdos trying to
> friend me and
> > > poking me. I got rid of it last August.
> > >
> > >
> > > <<I admit that when Messalina first said she was standing for
> political
> > > office, I was horrified. As someone who has privately served
> Vesta for many
> > > years now, I was appalled at the thought of the sacred office of
> Virgo
> > > Maxima being besmirched and polluted by mixing it with politics.
> However I
> > > listened to what Messalina had to say, accepted the reasons she
> gave and,
> > > in
> > > fact, voted for her.>>
> > >
> > >
> > > Well, I am glad to hear you overcame your "horror" enough to
> vote for me at
> > > the time. That was very big of you.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > <<Later I came to regret doing so. She frequently stated that,
> as a servant
> > > of
> > > Vesta, she could not lie but was, at all times, truthful. I
> found this
> > > very
> > > admirable and, indeed, it was one of the reasons I voted for
> her. However,
> > > once in office, she made several very derogatory remarks about
> other
> > > citizens and when called upon to substantiate her remarks, her
> invariable
> > > response was to the effect that we just had to accept what she
> said as she
> > > could not lie. I was truly unhappy about anyone putting forth
> their
> > > personal
> > > opinion as gospel truth by hiding behind the skirts of the
> Goddess Vesta.>>
> > >
> > >
> > > Hmm, I guess you missed all those posts wherein I explained in
> detail what
> > > I said and did not say, and took apart all the accusations made
> against me.
> > > I have no intention of dredging up the past as it is over and
> done with, but
> > > suffice to say that as Sacerdos Vestalis, I am bound to tell the
> truth at
> > > all times. I did so to the best of my knowledge about any
> situation at the
> > > time. I never put forth anything as "gospel" truth, since I am
> not a
> > > Christian, nor, let me assure you, did I ever hide behind
> anyone's "skirts,"
> > > or "pants" for that matter.
> > >
> > >
> > > <<However, it's not any of that that makes me feel this way now.
> You call
> > > her
> > > a coup plotter and a liar. Whether we agree or disagree with
> that, the fact
> > > remains Maxima Valeria Messalina resigned all her offices and her
> > > citizenship. The reasons she gave were her own ill health and
> that of her
> > > mother. I, probably more than most, can empathise with that
> situation and,
> > > as I said, offered my prayers for both of them.
> > >
> > > I know others will argue that she resigned for political
> reasons. I don't
> > > believe it matters. Had she simply gone to the CP and said `due
> to my
> > > present circumstances I can not fulfill all of my duties but
> I'll do what I
> > > can' then no-one could have been so boorish as not to accept
> that. There
> > > were others serving Vesta and I'm sure the CP could have worked
> out some
> > > way
> > > of seeing that the duties were fulfilled, while making it as
> easy as
> > > possible on Messalina. Instead she chose to abandon her position
> as Virgo
> > > Maxima completely and to completely walk away from Nova Roma.
> > >
> > > I admit Vesta happens to be my favourite goddess. I happen to
> believe that
> > > the role of Virgo Maxima is by far the most important one in
> Nova Roma.
> > > That's my opinion. No one can take an oath to publicly serve the
> gods, then
> > > turn their back and walk away, however dire their circumstances
> and then
> > > walk back in and take up the same position.
> > >
> > > The gods can't be picked up, laid down and then picked up again.
> To do that
> > > is a total insult to them. Your life is dedicated to Vesta first
> and
> > > foremost and ALL else second or it's not – it's as simple as tha
> t. You
> > > take
> > > an oath, that oath is binding. No on can treat Vesta like a
> plaything,
> > > someone to serve when it suits and not when it doesn't. No one
> can lay down
> > > that sacred office, walk totally away from it and then stroll
> back when it
> > > suits them. What would have happened to any Vestal in ancient
> Rome, never
> > > mind the Virgo Maxima, who abandoned her sacred office and
> indeed left Rome
> > > completely? Would she have been allowed to return to that office
> when it
> > > suited her. Above all, would Vesta have been happy with a
> community that
> > > allowed this>>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yes, I would think that you more than most should feel the most
> empathy for
> > > my situation, even though at the time, I did not reveal it in
> any detail, as
> > > was my prerogative, but I will do so now for your benefit.
> > >
> > > The only thing that could make me resign was the double whammy
> of bad news
> > > I received in just one week's time - first, my mother, who
> suffers from
> > > Alzheimer's, suffered a stroke and was left speechless and
> paralyzed, and
> > > then my own diagnosis of cancer, which gave very little hope of
> recovery.
> > > Under that heavy burden, I resigned from Nova Roma with great
> regret.
> > > Looking back now, I see it was done in haste as many have since
> pointed out
> > > to me, but my judgment at the time was clouded with despair.
> > >
> > > Fortunately, I sought a second opinion and received a more
> favorable
> > > diagnosis, one wherein several months of treatments might just
> save my life.
> > > I am very beholden to you and to all who prayed to the Gods on
> my behalf,
> > > for it seems your prayers are being answered, for I am
> responding very well
> > > to the treatments. My mother, too, is doing much better. Thus,
> when I
> > > received an email from our new Pontifex Maximus, Sabinus, asking
> me if I
> > > could return to serve as Virgo Maxima, I said I could. However,
> because I am
> > > still in treatment, I am returning to serve only as Virgo
> Maxima, with my
> > > primary purpose being to finish the training of Aurelia Ibera
> and Maria
> > > Caeca as Vestals.
> > >
> > > My life IS dedicated to Vesta first and foremost. That did not
> change. I
> > > never renounced my priesthood and I continued living my life as
> a Vestal. I
> > > have never ever treated Great Vesta as a "plaything". I am Her
> Vestal for
> > > life. My circumstances were not just "dire" - they were life-
> threatening! I
> > > had many things in my personal life that demanded my immediate
> attention, so
> > > I felt, at that moment, that I had to step away from Nova Roma.
> > >
> > > Lentulus did suggest that I should keep my citizenship and I did
> ask for my
> > > citizenship back two weeks later. I was reinstated as a citizen
> in November.
> > > It was suggested to me that I could petition the Senate to have my
> > > citizenship reinstated more quickly, but I decided to wait the
> 60 days,
> > > during which time I would learn if the treatments the doctors
> were offering
> > > would do me any good. Fortunately, they did and continue to do so.
> > >
> > > I never "abandoned" my Sacred Office as a Vestal. I resigned as
> Tribuna
> > > Plebis, Governor and Virgo Maxima. Those are two different
> things. And since
> > > you asked, in ancient Rome, there were times when Vestals became
> too ill to
> > > continue on in their duties. At such times, they were relieved
> of their
> > > duties and moved out of the Atrium Vestae and into the home of a
> Roman
> > > matron who was chosen to care for the ailing Vestal until she
> either
> > > recovered or passed on. When the Vestal was well again enough to
> resume her
> > > duties, she was brought back to the Atrium Vestae. This was a
> very common
> > > thing and happened at least once in every Vestal's life, for
> what girl could
> > > grow into womanhood without becoming seriously ill at least once
> in her
> > > lifetime? So you see, Mother Vesta, in all Her manifold wisdom,
> did
> > > allow for Vestals who became ill to leave and return to Her
> sacred community
> > > all the time.
> > >
> > > I do so hope you are feeling better now. That is important to
> me, as it was
> > > when I defended you even before my friend, Maior, when she made
> some
> > > disparaging remarks about your lack of activity in Nova Roma,
> which you
> > > explained where due to your own ongoing health problems. I have
> kept you in
> > > my daily prayers to Great Vesta and shall continue to do so,
> that we may
> > > both make complete recoveries from what ails us.
> > >
> > > Vale bene in pace Deorum,
> > >
> > > Maxima Valeria Messallina
> > > Sacerdos Vestalis
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82831 From: Cn. Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Caesar Troiano sal.

It is a new list. The former PM has control of the other. That list is itself a replacement for the one from Cassius' time which he also took with him.

Optime vale.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Delphicapollo <delphicapollo@...> wrote:
>
> Salve!
>
> I am curious: Why does the CP list only show three months of activity,
> at the bottom of the page.
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82832 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus omnibus in foro S.P.D.

Consul Cato scripsit:
> My comment is only that while the call for new auspices *may have been*
> unnecessary, my sole concern was that absolutely no shadow of doubt be held
> over the validity of a session of the Senate.
>

I would like to add that this was my feeling as well. When I agreed to
take the auspices anew for a renewed call for a Senate session, that was not
intended as a criticism of Modianus Rex Sacrorum's authority or ability to
do so. Far from it. But since the consul decided to cancel that call, and
issue a new call, new auspices had to be taken, so I agreed to do so when
asked.

My *personal opinion* is that while the Rex Sacrorum cannot have a
military or political office, our Rex Sacrorum probably retains the sacred
office of Augur. In the Roman tradition, nothing should be able to remove
him from that office. Under our laws, as far as I know, only nonpayment of
taxes can remove him from that office. But it will be for the Collegium
Pontificum, and especially the Pontifex Maximus and Rex Sacrorum themselves,
to figure out how Nova Roma will handle this matter.

Valete!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82833 From: Delphicapollo Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Salve, and thank you for taking the time to answer.

Curiosity assuaged!
Although shouldn't the Republic ask those worthies for a copy, for
our Archives? It seems unfortunate that future Pontifices should lose
the benefit of prior research posted, or be forced to rehash things
debated in the past.
Just a thought.

Vale
Troianus

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2011, at 1:00 PM, "Cn. Iulius Caesar" <gn_iulius_caesar@...
> wrote:

> Caesar Troiano sal.
>
> It is a new list. The former PM has control of the other. That list
> is itself a replacement for the one from Cassius' time which he also
> took with him.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Delphicapollo <delphicapollo@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salve!
> >
> > I am curious: Why does the CP list only show three months of
> activity,
> > at the bottom of the page.
> >
> >
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82834 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Salve Troiane.

Yes, well ownership of lists has been a contentious subject while you were away ;) Suffice it to say that the last CP list before the curent one (it can get confusing as to which is which) was an "official" list. Getting access to it however seems unlikely at this stage. As to one from Cassius' time, I think that is unavailable, as in being possibly deleted.

Vale bene
Caesar



--- On Wed, 1/19/11, Delphicapollo <delphicapollo@...> wrote:

> From: Delphicapollo <delphicapollo@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: CP Question
> To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 11:52 AM
> Salve, and thank you for taking the
> time to answer.
>
>    Curiosity assuaged!
>    Although shouldn't the Republic ask those
> worthies for a copy, for 
> our Archives? It seems unfortunate that future Pontifices
> should lose 
> the benefit of prior research posted, or be forced to
> rehash things 
> debated in the past.
>    Just a thought.
>
> Vale
>          Troianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82835 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Salvete;

The list that Cassius owned, the original CP list, was deleted by Cassius.
The second list is being controlled by Piscinus and I have asked that he
give up control of that list to Sabinus, but he seems immune to reason.

There are only a couple of us pontifices left who were on that original
list. Myself and Quintus Fabius Maximus to my knowledge.

Valete;

Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

>
>
> Salve Troiane.
>
> Yes, well ownership of lists has been a contentious subject while you were
> away ;) Suffice it to say that the last CP list before the curent one (it
> can get confusing as to which is which) was an "official" list. Getting
> access to it however seems unlikely at this stage. As to one from Cassius'
> time, I think that is unavailable, as in being possibly deleted.
>
> Vale bene
> Caesar
>
> --- On Wed, 1/19/11, Delphicapollo <delphicapollo@...<delphicapollo%40gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> > From: Delphicapollo <delphicapollo@... <delphicapollo%40gmail.com>
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: CP Question
> > To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>" <
> Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 11:52 AM
>
> > Salve, and thank you for taking the
> > time to answer.
> >
> > Curiosity assuaged!
> > Although shouldn't the Republic ask those
> > worthies for a copy, for
> > our Archives? It seems unfortunate that future Pontifices
> > should lose
> > the benefit of prior research posted, or be forced to
> > rehash things
> > debated in the past.
> > Just a thought.
> >
> > Vale
> > Troianus
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82836 From: Delphicapollo Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Salve Caesar -

It seems I missed a number of contentious things while I was away.
My bleeding ulcers are no doubt grateful, but the rest of me really
does have some catching up to do!

Vale bene
Troianus

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2011, at 2:12 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...
> wrote:

> Salve Troiane.
>
> Yes, well ownership of lists has been a contentious subject while
> you were away ;) Suffice it to say that the last CP list before the
> curent one (it can get confusing as to which is which) was an
> "official" list. Getting access to it however seems unlikely at this
> stage. As to one from Cassius' time, I think that is unavailable, as
> in being possibly deleted.
>
> Vale bene
> Caesar
>
> --- On Wed, 1/19/11, Delphicapollo <delphicapollo@...> wrote:
>
> > From: Delphicapollo <delphicapollo@...>
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: CP Question
> > To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 11:52 AM
> > Salve, and thank you for taking the
> > time to answer.
> >
> > Curiosity assuaged!
> > Although shouldn't the Republic ask those
> > worthies for a copy, for
> > our Archives? It seems unfortunate that future Pontifices
> > should lose
> > the benefit of prior research posted, or be forced to
> > rehash things
> > debated in the past.
> > Just a thought.
> >
> > Vale
> > Troianus
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82837 From: Delphicapollo Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Salvete -

if the two of you saved e-mails, perhaps you could get together and
create at least a partial reconstruction.

As for the list controlled by Piscinus, surely there is bound to be
someone who is still privately in contact with him, who can ask him -
as a friend - to at least permit access so it can be archived.

Again, just a thought.
Seems somewhat of a tragic loss, to have all that thought and
effort drift off into electronic oblivion.

Vale optime
Troianus


Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2011, at 2:20 PM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...>
wrote:

> Salvete;
>
> The list that Cassius owned, the original CP list, was deleted by
> Cassius.
> The second list is being controlled by Piscinus and I have asked
> that he
> give up control of that list to Sabinus, but he seems immune to
> reason.
>
> There are only a couple of us pontifices left who were on that
> original
> list. Myself and Quintus Fabius Maximus to my knowledge.
>
> Valete;
>
> Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
> gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Salve Troiane.
>>
>> Yes, well ownership of lists has been a contentious subject while
>> you were
>> away ;) Suffice it to say that the last CP list before the curent
>> one (it
>> can get confusing as to which is which) was an "official" list.
>> Getting
>> access to it however seems unlikely at this stage. As to one from
>> Cassius'
>> time, I think that is unavailable, as in being possibly deleted.
>>
>> Vale bene
>> Caesar
>>
>> --- On Wed, 1/19/11, Delphicapollo
>> <delphicapollo@...<delphicapollo%40gmail.com>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Delphicapollo <delphicapollo@... <delphicapollo
>>> %40gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: CP Question
>>> To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>" <
>> Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>>
>>> Date: Wednesday, January 19, 2011, 11:52 AM
>>
>>> Salve, and thank you for taking the
>>> time to answer.
>>>
>>> Curiosity assuaged!
>>> Although shouldn't the Republic ask those
>>> worthies for a copy, for
>>> our Archives? It seems unfortunate that future Pontifices
>>> should lose
>>> the benefit of prior research posted, or be forced to
>>> rehash things
>>> debated in the past.
>>> Just a thought.
>>>
>>> Vale
>>> Troianus
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82838 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
<<--- On Wed, 1/19/11, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

Salve Troiane.

Yes, well ownership of lists has been a contentious subject while you were away ;) Suffice it to say that the last CP list before the curent one (it can get confusing as to which is which) was an "official" list. Getting access to it however seems unlikely at this stage. As to one from Cassius' time, I think that is unavailable, as in being possibly deleted.>>
 
 
Salvete,
 
Yes, the one from Cassius' time was deleted and exists no more.
 
Valete bene,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82839 From: David Kling Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Salve;

I'm still on the list that Piscinus controls, so I have access to that list.

Vale;

Modianus

On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Delphicapollo <delphicapollo@...>wrote:

>
>
> Salvete -
>
> if the two of you saved e-mails, perhaps you could get together and
> create at least a partial reconstruction.
>
> As for the list controlled by Piscinus, surely there is bound to be
> someone who is still privately in contact with him, who can ask him -
> as a friend - to at least permit access so it can be archived.
>
> Again, just a thought.
> Seems somewhat of a tragic loss, to have all that thought and
> effort drift off into electronic oblivion.
>
> Vale optime
>
> Troianus
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82840 From: Gaia Valeria Pulchra Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: On the Hot Topic of the Virgo Maxima
Salvete Omnes,

I posted my thoughts regarding this conversation to the BackAlley, and it
was suggested I share them here. It's well outside my comfort zone to post
to the main list, as I tend to be very out-spoken and sometimes down-right
vulgar. I hope I can clearly express myself here without offending anyone
needlessly. I've re-worded a couple of sentences to make sure I didn't make
any reference to other people's posts on the BackAlley because I feel it is
wrong to cross-post other's words.
As someone who spends about 30% of my day talking to Vesta and beaming at
her as I clean my house, I can tell you this is of interest to me. Honestly,
I don't feel like M has displayed the kind of behavior I want to see in
someone in that kind of position. I'm basically mirroring others here,
because I agree with them 110%.
It tears my heart out that we don't have a Virgo Maxima. I want to see
the religio thrive, but I'm not willing to see persons of questionable
integrity appointed just to make me feel like things are filling out. Vesta
is in my life every single day. She is the force I will direct my daughters
to as I teach them to care for their families, and I would like there to be
a Virgo Maxima that I can direct them to as well.
I feel like there are only a few people who look at the religio from my
personal POV, as not just my own culture, but the culture I'll be raising
generations of my family in. We, as adults can have our own personal and
political beefs with those in the CP etc, but someone needs to point out to
these same people that they are pillars of a community not just of history
nerds on the internet, but of living, breathing families who are growing and
living in the religio.
People on Piscinius' list make the joke that the NR religio is a role
playing game etc. and I feel like far too many people treat it with that
level of insignificance. I get up on my soap box and I rant and I get angry
because this isn't just MY culture, but these are the people who my kids are
going to look to for guidance.
I'm not expressing myself very well, because I'm sick as a dog, and
tired. I'm just getting frustrated trying to get it out of my head and into
this message lol. I'm just thankful my kids will have Uncle Metellus to set
'em straight, and I can always send the girls to Caeca. SHE is the kind of
woman I'd like them to look up to! She's sensitive, creative, independent
and best of all, she doesn't hide behind titles and attack others. Between
her and Tink they should have enough female role models to grow up to be
poetry writing, coffee-mug hurling glamazons!

The Virgo Maxima must be above suspicion. There shouldn't be a need for a
debate. One in such a position should never give us a reason for the kind of
conversation we're involved in.

Valete


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82841 From: Delphicapollo Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: Re: CP Question
Salve!

Would it be possible to copy it, as a "user"?
Yahoo periodically deletes inactive lists, so it could become lost
just from disuse.

Vale bene
S E M Troianus

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 19, 2011, at 3:14 PM, David Kling <tau.athanasios@...>
wrote:

> Salve;
>
> I'm still on the list that Piscinus controls, so I have access to
> that list.
>
> Vale;
>
> Modianus
>
> On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:41 PM, Delphicapollo <delphicapollo@...
> >wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Salvete -
> >
> > if the two of you saved e-mails, perhaps you could get together and
> > create at least a partial reconstruction.
> >
> > As for the list controlled by Piscinus, surely there is bound to be
> > someone who is still privately in contact with him, who can ask
> him -
> > as a friend - to at least permit access so it can be archived.
> >
> > Again, just a thought.
> > Seems somewhat of a tragic loss, to have all that thought and
> > effort drift off into electronic oblivion.
> >
> > Vale optime
> >
> > Troianus
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82842 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-19
Subject: a.d. XIV Kal. Feb.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XIV Kalendas Februarius; haec dies comitialis est.

"The following year there was no king of the Romans elected, but a
certain magistracy, called by them an interregnum, had the oversight
of public affairs, being created in much the following manner: The
patricians who had been enrolled in the senate under Romulus, being,
as I have said, two hundred in number, were divided into decuriae;Link
to the editor's note at the bottom of this page then, when lots had
been cast, the first ten persons upon whom the lot fell were invested
by the rest with the absolute rule of the State. They did not,
however, all reign together, but successively, each for five days,
during which time they had both the rods and the other insignia of the
royal power. The first, after his power had expired, handed over the
government to the second, and he to the third, and so on the to the
last. After the first ten had reigned their appointed time of fifty
days, ten others received the rule from them, and from those in turn
others. But presently the people decided to abolish the rule of the
decuriae, being irked by all the changes of power, since the men did
not all have either the same purposes or the same natural abilities.
Thereupon the senators, calling the people together in assembly by
tribes and curiae, permitted them to consider the form of government
and determine whether they wished to entrust the public interests to a
king or to annual magistrates. The people, however, did not take the
choice upon themselves, but referred the decision to the senator,
intimating that they would be satisfied with whichever form of
government the others should approve. The senators all favoured
establishing a monarchical form of government, but strife arose over
the question from which group the future king should be chosen. For
some thought that the one who was to govern the commonwealth ought to
be chosen from among the original senators, and others that he should
be chosen from among those who had been admitted afterwards and whom
they called new senators.

The contest being drawn out to a great length, they at last reached an
agreement on the basis that one of two courses should be followed —
either the older senators should choose the king, who must not,
however, be one of themselves, but might be anyone else whom they
should regard as most suitable, or the new senators should do the
same. The older senators accepted the right of choosing, and after a
long consultation among themselves decided that, since by their
agreement they themselves were excluded from the sovereignty, they
would not confer it on any of the newly-appointed senators, either,
but would find some man from outside who would espouse neither party,
and declare him king, as the most effectual means of putting an end to
party strife. After they had come to this resolution, they chose a
man of the Sabine race, the son of Pompilius Pompon, a person of
distinction, whose name was Numa. He was in that stage of life, being
near forty, in which prudence is the most conspicuous, and of an
aspect full of royal dignity; and he enjoyed the greatest renown for
wisdom, not only among the citizens of Cures, but among all the
neighbouring peoples as well. After reaching this decision the
senators assembled the people, and that one of their number who was
then the interrex, coming forward, told them that the senators had
unanimously resolved to establish a monarchical form of government and
that he, having been empowered to decide who should succeed to the
rule, chose Numa Pompilius as king of the State. After this he
appointed ambassadors from among the patricians and sent them to
conduct Numa to Rome that he might assume the royal power. This
happened in the third year of the sixteenth Olympiad [713 B.C.], at
which Pythagoras, a Lacedaemonian, won the foot-race." - Dionysius of
Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" 2.57-58


"In fresh myrtle my blade I'll entwine,
Like Harmodious, the gallant and good,
When he made at the tutelar shrine
A libation of Tyranny's blood." - Edgar Allan Poe (born 19 January
A.D. 1809), "Hymn to Aristogeiton and Harmodius"


Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82843 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-01-20
Subject: Re: On the Hot Topic of the Virgo Maxima
C. Petronius C. Valeriae Pulchrae salutem,

> People on Piscinius' list make the joke that the NR religio is a role playing game etc.

Do you speak about the Piscinus list on the religio Romana or about the Piscinus CP list?

In the both case, those private lists and the subjects debate on them are private discussions not official. In Nova Roma we do not care about those discussions more than the BA discussions...

Obviously the religio Romana on Nova Roma is not a role playing game. About the Piscinus CP list, it is also a private list with one owner and the problem connected with a unic ownership.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XIII Kalendas Februarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82844 From: Cato Date: 2011-01-20
Subject: a.d. XIII Kal. Feb.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XIII Kalendas Februarius; haec dies comitialis est.


"When the ambassadors came to Numa to invite him to the sovereignty,
he for some time refused it and long persisted in his resolution not
to accept the royal power. But when his brothers kept urging him
insistently and at last his father argued that the offer of so great
an honour ought not to be rejected, he consented to become king. As
soon as the Romans were informed of this by the ambassadors, they
conceived a great yearning for the man before they saw him, esteeming
it a sufficient proof of his wisdom that, while the others had valued
sovereignty beyond measure, looking upon it as the source of
happiness, he alone despised it as a paltry thing and unworthy of
serious attention. And when he approached the city, they met him upon
the road and with great applause, salutations and other honours
conducted him into the city. After that, an assembly of the people
was held, in which the tribes by curiae gave their votes in his
favour; and when the resolution of the people had been confirmed by
the patricians, and, last of all, the augurs had reported that the
heavenly signs were auspicious, he assumed the office. The Romans say
that he undertook no military campaign, but that, being a pious and
just man, he passed the whole period of his reign in peace and caused
the State to be most excellently governed. They relate also many
marvellous stories about him, attributing his human wisdom to the
suggestions of the gods. For they fabulously affirm that a certain
nymph, Egeria, used to visit him and instruct him on each occasion in
the art of reigning, though others say that it was not a nymph, but
one of the Muses. And this, they claim, became clear to every one;
for, when people were incredulous at first, as may well be supposed,
and regarded the story concerning the goddess as an invention, he, in
order to give the unbelievers a manifest proof of his converse with
this divinity, did as follows, pursuant to her instructions. He
invited to the house where he lived a great many of the Romans, all
men of worth, and having shown them his apartments, very meanly
provided with furniture and particularly lacking in everything that
was necessary to entertain a numerous company, he ordered them to
depart for the time being, but invited them to dinner in the evening.
And when they came at the appointed hour, he showed them rich couches
and tables laden with a multitude of beautiful cups, and when they
were at table, he set before them a banquet consisting of all sorts of
viands, such a banquet, indeed, as it would not have been easy for any
man in those days to have prepared in a long time. The Romans were
astonished at everything they saw, and from that time they entertained
a firm belief that some goddess held converse with him." - Dionysius
of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" 2.60


Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82845 From: Tragedienne Date: 2011-01-20
Subject: Re: On the Hot Topic of the Virgo Maxima
Aeternia C. Valeriae Pulchrae Omnibusque S.P.D.

Thank you cara amica, those words were well said. Although I don't see myself in such regard, I thank you for the praise all the same.


Vale Optime,
Aeternia (Tinca)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82846 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2011-01-20
Subject: British TV programme tonight
Salvete omnes


Those of you who can receive the British TV channel, ITV4 (Channel 4) should try to catch the following programme:-


Rome Wasn't Built In a Day

Two thousand years ago, the Romans transformed Britain with straight roads, spectacular aqueducts and magnificent cities. The countryside was studded with luxurious villas. But today only ruins remain. Now, six skilled builders are about to change that.

This should be an excellent and fascinating programme, as a team of builders work out how to build a villa, by hand and using traditional methods

Those who are not in the UK may be able to watch this on-line.

It is at 21:00 hours London time today.

It would be interesting to exchange impressions after you have watched the programme.

Valete omnes

Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82847 From: David Carmichael Date: 2011-01-20
Subject: a passing
Salvete
my last grandparent on my fathers side has just recently passed away and I am unable to attend the funeral being across the country and unable to afford the $1,000 flight from eastern canada to western. I want to have like a little ceremony of my own the roman way. If anyone can give me information as to how I can do this please contact me.
Gaius Julius Julianus


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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82848 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-20
Subject: Re: a passing
Salve G Iulius;

On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 8:48 PM, David Carmichael wrote:
>
> Salvete
> my last grandparent on my fathers side has just recently passed away and I am unable to attend the funeral being across the country and unable to afford the $1,000 flight from eastern Canadaa to western. I want to have like a little ceremony of my own the roman way. If anyone can give me information as to how I can do this please contact me.
> Gaius Julius Julianus
>

Those who are more versed in Roman Ways of Honoring our Beloved Ones
who have died will no doubt write you.

I just wanted you to know that you have both my sympathy and empathy
as both my dad and last grandparent passed away last year. I was
there for my dad (having gone back expecting to celebrate his 75th
Birthday in February), but was unable to afford going back for my
grandfather (flying at US Thanksgiving time on short notice, not
doable).

We are who were are in large part due to those of our family line who
came before us.

Their Genius is part of what drives us, makes us the men and women who
affect and effect the world in which we live.

In my personal tradition, we have a Minnehorn...a Toast for the Dead.

May I know your grandparent's first name? I should like to raise a
Minnehorn to them, along with my own beloved departed, this weekend
when I stand Offering to the Holy Powers as I see Them.

In amicus - Venator
Consul, Cives et Poeta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82849 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-01-20
Subject: A reminder...
Salvete Omnes;

The message from G Iulius about the loss of his grandparent to which I
responded was in my Spam folder.

Please, look carefully before you delete; the message may be real, and
a real plea.

--
In amicitia et fide
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Consul, Civis et Poeta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 82850 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2011-01-21
Subject: Senate Call
Ex officio Tribunus Plebis Gaius Aemilius Crassus

With the auspices having been taken by Augur Gaius Tullius Valerianus
Germanicus and found to be propitious , notice is given to the Roman people
that Consul Equitius Cato has called the Senate into session.

Consul C. Equitius Cato has called the Senate to meet during the following
times

1. Session
Beginning: sunrise, a.d. XI Kal. Feb. (Jan. 22) ; end: sunset a.d. V Kal.
Feb. 2764 auc (Jan. 29, 2011)
1.1. Contio
Beginning: sunrise, a.d. XI Kal. Feb. (Jan. 22) ; end: sunset a.d. VIII Kal.
Feb. 2764 auc (Jan. 25, 2011 )
1.2. Vote
Beginning: sunrise, a.d. VII Kal. Feb. (Jan. 26) ; end: sunset a.d. V Kal.
Feb. 2764 auc (Jan. 29, 2011)

The Consul has set as the following as the preliminary agenda:

ITEM I - Appointment of a CFO
ITEM II - Creation of a panel to recommend action regarding the leges
Saliciae
ITEM III - Approval of an SCU to allow voting in the comitia centuriata
regarding the repeal of the sententiae against L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
ITEM IV - Approval of an SCU allowing the appointments of quaestores
ITEM V - Discussion on activities in Provincia Sarmatia
ITEM VI - Discussion of the Status of "The Eagle"
ITEM VII - Discussion of age exemption for C. Cocceius Spinula
ITEM VIII - Discussion regarding dissolution of MMP


Valete





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