Ex officio Tribunus Plebis Gaius Aemilius Crassus

With the auspices having been taken by Augur Gaius Tullius Valerianus
Germanicus and found to be propitious , notice is given to the Roman people
that Consul Equitius Cato has called the Senate into session.

Consul C. Equitius Cato has called the Senate to meet during the following
times

1. Session
Beginning: sunrise, a.d. XI Kal. Feb. (Jan. 22) ; end: sunset a.d. V Kal.
Feb. 2764 auc (Jan. 29, 2011)
1.1. Contio
Beginning: sunrise, a.d. XI Kal. Feb. (Jan. 22) ; end: sunset a.d. VIII Kal.
Feb. 2764 auc (Jan. 25, 2011 )
1.2. Vote
Beginning: sunrise, a.d. VII Kal. Feb. (Jan. 26) ; end: sunset a.d. V Kal.
Feb. 2764 auc (Jan. 29, 2011)

The Consul has set as the following as the preliminary agenda:

ITEM I - Appointment of a CFO
ITEM II - Creation of a panel to recommend action regarding the leges
Saliciae
ITEM III - Approval of an SCU to allow voting in the comitia centuriata
regarding the repeal of the sententiae against L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
ITEM IV - Approval of an SCU allowing the appointments of quaestores
ITEM V - Discussion on activities in Provincia Sarmatia
ITEM VI - Discussion of the Status of "The Eagle"
ITEM VII - Discussion of age exemption for C. Cocceius Spinula
ITEM VIII - Discussion regarding dissolution of MMP


Valete





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,



I too can't help much with your question but would like to give you my
sincere condolences on the loss of your family.



Vale,

Crassus



From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of David Carmichael
Sent: sexta-feira, 21 de Janeiro de 2011 02:49
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] a passing






Salvete
my last grandparent on my fathers side has just recently passed away and I
am unable to attend the funeral being across the country and unable to
afford the $1,000 flight from eastern canada to western. I want to have like
a little ceremony of my own the roman way. If anyone can give me information
as to how I can do this please contact me.
Gaius Julius Julianus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XII Kalendas Februarius; haec dies comitialis est.


"After the death of Romulus the senate, being now in full control of
the government and having held the supreme power for one year, as I
have related, began to be at odds with itself and to split into
factions over questions of pre-eminence and equality. For the Alban
element, who together with Romulus had planted the colony, claimed the
right, not only of delivering their opinions first and enjoying the
greatest honours, but also of being courted by the newcomers. Those,
on the other hand, who had been admitted afterwards into the number of
the patricians from among the new settlers thought that they ought not
to be excluded from any honours or to stand in an inferior position to
the others. This was felt particularly by those who were of the Sabine
race and who, in virtue the treaty made by Romulus with Tatius,
supposed they had been granted citizenship by the original inhabitants
on equal terms, and that they had shown the same favour to the former
in their turn. The senate being thus at odds, the clients also were
divided into two parties and each joined their respective factions.
There were, too, among the plebeians not a few, lately admitted into
the number of the citizens, who, having never assisted Romulus in any
of his wars, had been neglected by him and had received neither a
share of land nor any booty. These, having no home, but being poor and
vagabonds, were by necessity enemies to their superiors and quite ripe
for revolution. So Numa, having found the affairs of the State in
such a raging sea of confusion, first relieved the poor among the
plebeians by distributing to them some small part of the land which
Romulus had possessed and of the public land; and afterwards he
allayed the strife of the patricians, not by depriving them of
anything the founders of the city had gained, but by bestowing some
other honours on the new settlers. And having attuned the whole body
of the people, like a musical instrument, to the sole consideration of
the public good and enlarged the circuit of the city by the addition
of the Quirinal hill (for till that time it was still without a wall),
he then addressed himself to the other measures of government,
labouring to inculcate these two things by the possession of which he
conceived the State would become prosperous and great: first, piety,
by informing his subjects that the gods are the givers and guardians
of every blessing to mortal men, and, second, justice, through which,
he showed them, the blessings also which the gods bestow bring honest
enjoyment to their possessors." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "Roman
Antiquities" 2.62


"Frenchmen, I die guiltless of the crimes imputed to me. Pray God my
blood fall not on France!" - Last words of King Louis XVI of France,
guillotined on 21 January A.D. 1793

"A lie told often enough becomes the truth." - Vladimir Ilyich
Ulyanov, better known as Lenin, who died 21 January A.D. 1924


Valete bene!

Cato

Salvete omnes

From the London Daily Mail comes news of the sale of a 2000 year old Roman cinerary urn. A previous owner had converted it into an electric table lamp.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349259/Electric-lamp-sells-445k-revealed-2k-year-old-relic.html

Valete omnes
Crispus

Salvete omnes

I know that some of you would have been unable to watch the programme last night on ITV Channel 4.

So here it is online

I hope you enjoy it, and found it as interesting as I did.

What did you think of the idea for the programme, and the way the workmen went about the job?

It would be really interesting to have your thoughts.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/rome-wasnt-built-in-a-day/4od#3154408

Valete omnes
Crispus

Salvete,
unfortunately it's viewable only from within the UK. I guess I will spend
the next days looking for a UK proxy server which will fool the website into
thinking I'm in the UK.

Optime valete,
Livia

----- Original Message -----
From: "GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS" <jbshr1pwa@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 7:56 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Rome wasn't built in a day - online!


Salvete omnes

I know that some of you would have been unable to watch the programme last
night on ITV Channel 4.

So here it is online

I hope you enjoy it, and found it as interesting as I did.

What did you think of the idea for the programme, and the way the workmen
went about the job?

It would be really interesting to have your thoughts.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/rome-wasnt-built-in-a-day/4od#3154408

Valete omnes
Crispus

Salve,



Oops, can't see it probably because I live outside UK.



Well I hope everyone else and enjoy it.



Vale,

Crassus



From: C. Aemilius Crassus [mailto:c.aemilius.crassus@...]
Sent: sexta-feira, 21 de Janeiro de 2011 19:08
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Rome wasn't built in a day - online!



Salve Crispe,



Thank you very much for the link, I'm watching right now.



Vale,

Crassus



From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS
Sent: sexta-feira, 21 de Janeiro de 2011 18:57
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Rome wasn't built in a day - online!





Salvete omnes

I know that some of you would have been unable to watch the programme last
night on ITV Channel 4.

So here it is online

I hope you enjoy it, and found it as interesting as I did.

What did you think of the idea for the programme, and the way the workmen
went about the job?

It would be really interesting to have your thoughts.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/rome-wasnt-built-in-a-day/4od#3154408

Valete omnes
Crispus





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Crispe,



Thank you very much for the link, I'm watching right now.



Vale,

Crassus



From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS
Sent: sexta-feira, 21 de Janeiro de 2011 18:57
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Rome wasn't built in a day - online!





Salvete omnes

I know that some of you would have been unable to watch the programme last
night on ITV Channel 4.

So here it is online

I hope you enjoy it, and found it as interesting as I did.

What did you think of the idea for the programme, and the way the workmen
went about the job?

It would be really interesting to have your thoughts.

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/rome-wasnt-built-in-a-day/4od#3154408

Valete omnes
Crispus





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes

It is really annoying that this link apparently doesn't work outside the UK.

If anyone finds a way to watch it, please let me know.

Valete omnes
Crispus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Aemilius Crassus" <c.aemilius.crassus@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
>
>
> Oops, can't see it probably because I live outside UK.
>
>
>
> Well I hope everyone else and enjoy it.
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Crassus
>
>
>
> From: C. Aemilius Crassus [mailto:c.aemilius.crassus@...]
> Sent: sexta-feira, 21 de Janeiro de 2011 19:08
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Rome wasn't built in a day - online!
>
>
>
> Salve Crispe,
>
>
>
> Thank you very much for the link, I'm watching right now.
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Crassus
>
>
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS
> Sent: sexta-feira, 21 de Janeiro de 2011 18:57
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Rome wasn't built in a day - online!
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete omnes
>
> I know that some of you would have been unable to watch the programme last
> night on ITV Channel 4.
>
> So here it is online
>
> I hope you enjoy it, and found it as interesting as I did.
>
> What did you think of the idea for the programme, and the way the workmen
> went about the job?
>
> It would be really interesting to have your thoughts.
>
> http://www.channel4.com/programmes/rome-wasnt-built-in-a-day/4od#3154408
>
> Valete omnes
> Crispus
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Ex Officio Statiae Corneliae Valerianae Julianae Aeterniae Aedilis Curulis

Edictum I: Creation of Official Macellum List

As per Article IV A. 4.e. of the Nova Roman Constitution: To maintain
the venues where the Ordo Equester is engaged in commerce within Nova
Roma property. It is the responsibility of the Curule Aediles to
report any changes of the Ordo Equester to the Censors, this edict
addresses the pursuit of Trade & Commerce within the res publica of
Nova Roma.

I hereby create an Official Macellum List specifically to provide
information and resources for those individuals who are both part of
the Macellum and the Ordo Equester. This list will be maintained by
the Office of the Curule Aediles.


Given by my hand 21st day of January 2764 a.u.c. in the Consulship of
P. Ullerius and G. Equitius


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve et Salvete;

As Consul of Nova Roma, I should like to request that each and every
one of us to try and act much more in keeping with the Virtues, Civic
and
Private.

Fraters et Sorors Romanii, we are all of us here, I believe, because
we share a common goal of increasing the "space" in this modern world
of ours for Living in as Roman a manner as possible.

We are, all of us (I believe), capable of making our arguments on
behalf of our opinions in a dignified and enlightened manner.

We are, all of us (I believe), capable of questioning the ideas of
others without calling either their character or sanity into question.

We are, all of us (I believe), capable of improving ourselves, and
thereby, our common discourse.

Be it resolved then, that I ask that we try and make our disagreements
within our main forum (aka Yahoo groups Nova Roma list) pointed, yet
pleasant, contentious, yet courteous, pleasantly banal, but
informative, etceteras...like unto every day, face-to-face
conversation where one would be cognizant of "real world" feed back
and consequence.

I should like to request that the Praetors try and guide those who
post here into more adult (in the genteel and educated meaning)
channels of conversation.

No dictates, just a request, as I think we can make this a truly great
forum for building a Nova Roma in which we can all be fully proud and
in which we all have an equal stake.

============================
In amicitia et fides -
Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Consul, Civis et Poeta

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XI Kalendas Februarius; haecdies comitialis est.


ROMAN IDENTITY AND HONOR

It was to others that a Roman had to look for any confirmation of his
ability and identity. In Roman society confirmation by others was
sought as well as required. Be they the elders of his family, his
patron or his clients, army comrades, or even - in an election - the
people of Rome; no Roman could be his own judge, but could see himself
only through the eyes of others.

One needs also to consider that Romans didn't know of modern day
psychology and hence did not analyze their thoughts and feelings. They
looked not inwards but to others to understand themselves. For it was
the opinion of others which dictated the opinion a Roman ultimately
held of himself. 'A good man' was hence a man deemed worthy by
others, a man deemed honorable. But so too, in the Roman mind set
honorable was only what was actually honored. Glory or honor were also
measured only in the recognition it drew from others.

Great, noble deeds might be done, but without people knowing of them
there was no glory, no fame and no advantage to be gained from them.
And to Romans the only advantage to be gained from glory and honor
was to use it to climb the social ladder. Any credit among one's
fellow men gained by one's ability, either in office or on the
battlefield, was immediately used to further one's political fortunes;
all in the hope of finally achieving that distant goal - a seat in the
Roman senate. Hence any achievement was blatantly bragged about to
make absolutely sure everyone knew about it. And anyone too dignified
to do the bragging oneself, simply found others who would do it for
them. And so in Rome, where nobility, military and political
leadership were all intertwined, there would be no end of bragging,
showing-off and a boundless supply of flattering rumors.

But in a society in which so much depended on the light in which
others saw you, their view could not only elevate you, but so too it
could destroy you. Any news, be it good or bad, spread like wildfire
in a society that spent much of the day gossiping in the public baths,
or mingling at the forum. Graffiti was scribbled on walls, and in the
inns drunken songs might ridicule the high and mighty. In the theatres
actors would in their plays praise or deride public figures of the
day. And so Rome was a city of rumors, for the entertainment of the
many and for the advancement of those whose worst fate could be, not
to be talked about.

"The Lyre sets in the evening: it is a rainy day." - Columella

"Outside the cave he [Hermes] found a tortoise feeding. He cleaned it
out, and stretched across the shell strings made from the cattle he
had sacrificed, and when he had thus devised a lyre he also invented a
plectrum ... When Apollon heard the lyre, he exchanged the cattle for
that. And as Hermes was tending the cattle, this time he fashioned a
shepherd's pipe which he proceeded to play. Covetous also of this,
Apollon offered him the golden staff which he held when he herded
cattle. But Hermes wanted both the staff and proficiency in the art of
prophecy in return for the pipe. So he was taught how to prophesy by
means of pebbles, and gave Apollon the pipe." - Apollodorus, The
Library 3.112-115

"Within the temple of Apollon Lykios in Argos is a statue of ...
Hermes with a tortoise which he has caught to make a lyre." -
Pausanias, Guide to Greece 2.19.6-7

"Constellation Lyre: Others say that when Mercury [Hermes] first made
the lyre on Mount Cyllene in Arcadia, he made it with seven strings to
correspond to the number of Atlantides, since Maia, his mother, was of
their company. Later, when he had driven away the cattle of Apollo and
had been caught in the act, to win pardon more easily, at Apollo's
request he gave him permission to claim the invention of the lyre, and
received from him a certain staff as reward ... Apollo took the lyre,
and is said to have taught Orpheus on it, and after he himself had
invented the cithara, he gave the lyre to Orpheus." - Hyginus,
Astronomica 2.7

"The clever device of the lyre, it is said, was invented by Hermes,
who constructed it of two horns and a crossbar and a tortoise-shell;
and he presented it first to Apollon and the Mousai, then to Amphion
of Thebes." - Philostratus the Elder, Imagines 1.10

The lyre is one of the most ancient of musical instruments. For
example, in the royal city of Ur (circa 3000 BC) musicians played the
lyre for royalty, according to excavated artifacts.

In Greek mythology, the lyre was invented by Hermes. When only a
child, he pulled a cow-gut across a tortoise shell, and thereby
created the lyre. Hermes gave this lyre to his half-brother Apollo
(both were fathered by Zeus). As the god of music, Apollo became
associated with the instrument.

Orpheus was given the instrument by Apollo when only a child, and the
Muses taught him to use it. Even Nature herself would stop to listen,
enraptured by his music. When Eurydice, the wife of Orpheus, died
from a snake bite and was taken to the Underworld, Orpheus followed in
hopes of bringing her back. His playing convinced Hades to release
Eurydice, providing Orpheus didn't look back at her during the journey
home - but just as he emerged into the sunlight Orpheus turned and
gazed upon his wife, and lost her forever.

There are several versions about the death of Orpheus. In the most
widespread version Dionysus invades Thrace, home of Orpheus, and the
female followers of Dionysus (the Maenads) tear Orpheus from limb to
limb. His head is thrown into the river Hebrus, where it floats to
Lesbos, singing the entire time. The lyre of Orpheus is also thrown
into the river, and it too floats to Lesbos, beached near the temple
of Apollo. Apollo then convinces Zeus that the instrument should
become a constellation. Zeus agrees, and places the lyre of Orpheus
between Hercules and Cygnus.

Valete bene!

Cato

Ave Cato,

Very interesting Consul. What is the source of this passage? While modern sources on a Roman antiquity have done much to peel away the layers of time, an error I have found in a few of these sources is the over application of modern sociology and psychology to the ancient mind akin to over zealous views of some 19th and early 20th century scholars. The same words in the passage could be said of modern people esp. politicians, the media and thespians. 
Certainly it will be noble to, for example, be appointed to the Senate based on a dignified reputation, however we know that friendship (both personal and political) political views and social standing was a great influence as well. Much depended upon interpersonal relations whether a citizen was deemed dignified or not. Loyalty (maybe) ability to keep confidences and other qualities often related to power were other considerations.  Given that so many notables had some skeleton in or out of their closets (or so history tells us) and a political ally was like a poisonous serpent that had to be handled just right or you could get bit, I find the passage left a few important elements out but I can discern the inspirational value.
Gratias tibi ago

Vale bene

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>
> Hodiernus dies est ante diem XI Kalendas Februarius; haecdies comitialis est.
>
>
> ROMAN IDENTITY AND HONOR
>
> It was to others that a Roman had to look for any confirmation of his
> ability and identity. In Roman society confirmation by others was
> sought as well as required. Be they the elders of his family, his
> patron or his clients, army comrades, or even - in an election - the
> people of Rome; no Roman could be his own judge, but could see himself
> only through the eyes of others.
>
> One needs also to consider that Romans didn't know of modern day
> psychology and hence did not analyze their thoughts and feelings. They
> looked not inwards but to others to understand themselves. For it was
> the opinion of others which dictated the opinion a Roman ultimately
> held of himself. 'A good man' was hence a man deemed worthy by
> others, a man deemed honorable. But so too, in the Roman mind set
> honorable was only what was actually honored. Glory or honor were also
> measured only in the recognition it drew from others.
>
> Great, noble deeds might be done, but without people knowing of them
> there was no glory, no fame and no advantage to be gained from them.
> And to Romans the only advantage to be gained from glory and honor
> was to use it to climb the social ladder. Any credit among one's
> fellow men gained by one's ability, either in office or on the
> battlefield, was immediately used to further one's political fortunes;
> all in the hope of finally achieving that distant goal - a seat in the
> Roman senate. Hence any achievement was blatantly bragged about to
> make absolutely sure everyone knew about it. And anyone too dignified
> to do the bragging oneself, simply found others who would do it for
> them. And so in Rome, where nobility, military and political
> leadership were all intertwined, there would be no end of bragging,
> showing-off and a boundless supply of flattering rumors.
>
> But in a society in which so much depended on the light in which
> others saw you, their view could not only elevate you, but so too it
> could destroy you. Any news, be it good or bad, spread like wildfire
> in a society that spent much of the day gossiping in the public baths,
> or mingling at the forum. Graffiti was scribbled on walls, and in the
> inns drunken songs might ridicule the high and mighty. In the theatres
> actors would in their plays praise or deride public figures of the
> day. And so Rome was a city of rumors, for the entertainment of the
> many and for the advancement of those whose worst fate could be, not
> to be talked about.
>
> "The Lyre sets in the evening: it is a rainy day." - Columella
>
> "Outside the cave he [Hermes] found a tortoise feeding. He cleaned it
> out, and stretched across the shell strings made from the cattle he
> had sacrificed, and when he had thus devised a lyre he also invented a
> plectrum ... When Apollon heard the lyre, he exchanged the cattle for
> that. And as Hermes was tending the cattle, this time he fashioned a
> shepherd's pipe which he proceeded to play. Covetous also of this,
> Apollon offered him the golden staff which he held when he herded
> cattle. But Hermes wanted both the staff and proficiency in the art of
> prophecy in return for the pipe. So he was taught how to prophesy by
> means of pebbles, and gave Apollon the pipe." - Apollodorus, The
> Library 3.112-115
>
> "Within the temple of Apollon Lykios in Argos is a statue of ...
> Hermes with a tortoise which he has caught to make a lyre." -
> Pausanias, Guide to Greece 2.19.6-7
>
> "Constellation Lyre: Others say that when Mercury [Hermes] first made
> the lyre on Mount Cyllene in Arcadia, he made it with seven strings to
> correspond to the number of Atlantides, since Maia, his mother, was of
> their company. Later, when he had driven away the cattle of Apollo and
> had been caught in the act, to win pardon more easily, at Apollo's
> request he gave him permission to claim the invention of the lyre, and
> received from him a certain staff as reward ... Apollo took the lyre,
> and is said to have taught Orpheus on it, and after he himself had
> invented the cithara, he gave the lyre to Orpheus." - Hyginus,
> Astronomica 2.7
>
> "The clever device of the lyre, it is said, was invented by Hermes,
> who constructed it of two horns and a crossbar and a tortoise-shell;
> and he presented it first to Apollon and the Mousai, then to Amphion
> of Thebes." - Philostratus the Elder, Imagines 1.10
>
> The lyre is one of the most ancient of musical instruments. For
> example, in the royal city of Ur (circa 3000 BC) musicians played the
> lyre for royalty, according to excavated artifacts.
>
> In Greek mythology, the lyre was invented by Hermes. When only a
> child, he pulled a cow-gut across a tortoise shell, and thereby
> created the lyre. Hermes gave this lyre to his half-brother Apollo
> (both were fathered by Zeus). As the god of music, Apollo became
> associated with the instrument.
>
> Orpheus was given the instrument by Apollo when only a child, and the
> Muses taught him to use it. Even Nature herself would stop to listen,
> enraptured by his music. When Eurydice, the wife of Orpheus, died
> from a snake bite and was taken to the Underworld, Orpheus followed in
> hopes of bringing her back. His playing convinced Hades to release
> Eurydice, providing Orpheus didn't look back at her during the journey
> home - but just as he emerged into the sunlight Orpheus turned and
> gazed upon his wife, and lost her forever.
>
> There are several versions about the death of Orpheus. In the most
> widespread version Dionysus invades Thrace, home of Orpheus, and the
> female followers of Dionysus (the Maenads) tear Orpheus from limb to
> limb. His head is thrown into the river Hebrus, where it floats to
> Lesbos, singing the entire time. The lyre of Orpheus is also thrown
> into the river, and it too floats to Lesbos, beached near the temple
> of Apollo. Apollo then convinces Zeus that the instrument should
> become a constellation. Zeus agrees, and places the lyre of Orpheus
> between Hercules and Cygnus.
>
> Valete bene!
>
> Cato
>

Salve,

Wonderful symbols on the urn! Thank you Crispe! As a member of the the "cultus seniores venerabilis" (pre-retirement half of age of senex) or as our Lentulus puts it "cult of the elderly";) I just may commission a similar urn, personalized of course, in anticipation of my own transition.

Vale bene,

Julia

"Nihil igitur adferunt qui in re gerenda versari senectutem negant, similesque sunt ut si qui gubernatorem in navigando nihil agere dicant, cum alii malos scandant, alii per foros cursent, alii sentinam exhauriant, ille autem clavum tenens quietus sedeat in puppi, non faciat ea quae iuvenes. At vero multo maiora et meliora facit. Non viribus aut velocitate aut celeritate corporum res magnae geruntur, sed consilio, auctoritate, sententia; quibus non modo non orbari, sed etiam augeri senectus solet." M. Tulli Ciceronis: Cato Maior de Senectute VI; 17
Trans:
"Those, therefore, who allege that old age is devoid of useful activity adduce nothing to the purpose, and are like those who would say that the pilot does nothing in the sailing of his ship, because, while others are climbing the masts, or running about the gangways, or working at the pumps, he sits quietly in the stern and simply holds the tiller. He may not be doing what younger members of the crew are doing, but what he does is better and much more important. It is not by muscle, speed, or physical dexterity that great things are achieved, but by reflection, force of character, and judgement; in these qualities old age is usually not only not poorer, but is even richer."

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS" <jbshr1pwa@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes
>
> From the London Daily Mail comes news of the sale of a 2000 year old Roman cinerary urn. A previous owner had converted it into an electric table lamp.
>
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349259/Electric-lamp-sells-445k-revealed-2k-year-old-relic.html
>
> Valete omnes
> Crispus
>

Cato Iuliae Aquilae sal.

It is here:

http://www.roman-empire.net/index.html

It's an interesting series, but there doesn't seem to be any source for it itself. I *think* it may be an online version of a textbook several decades old, but I've found it very useful :)

Vale!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>
> Ave Cato,
>
> Very interesting Consul. What is the source of this passage? While modern sources on a Roman antiquity have done much to peel away the layers of time, an error I have found in a few of these sources is the over application of modern sociology and psychology to the ancient mind akin to over zealous views of some 19th and early 20th century scholars. The same words in the passage could be said of modern people esp. politicians, the media and thespians. 
> Certainly it will be noble to, for example, be appointed to the Senate based on a dignified reputation, however we know that friendship (both personal and political) political views and social standing was a great influence as well. Much depended upon interpersonal relations whether a citizen was deemed dignified or not. Loyalty (maybe) ability to keep confidences and other qualities often related to power were other considerations.  Given that so many notables had some skeleton in or out of their closets (or so history tells us) and a political ally was like a poisonous serpent that had to be handled just right or you could get bit, I find the passage left a few important elements out but I can discern the inspirational value.
> Gratias tibi ago
>
> Vale bene
>
> Julia
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
> >
> > Hodiernus dies est ante diem XI Kalendas Februarius; haecdies comitialis est.
> >
> >
> > ROMAN IDENTITY AND HONOR
> >
> > It was to others that a Roman had to look for any confirmation of his
> > ability and identity. In Roman society confirmation by others was
> > sought as well as required. Be they the elders of his family, his
> > patron or his clients, army comrades, or even - in an election - the
> > people of Rome; no Roman could be his own judge, but could see himself
> > only through the eyes of others.
> >
> > One needs also to consider that Romans didn't know of modern day
> > psychology and hence did not analyze their thoughts and feelings. They
> > looked not inwards but to others to understand themselves. For it was
> > the opinion of others which dictated the opinion a Roman ultimately
> > held of himself. 'A good man' was hence a man deemed worthy by
> > others, a man deemed honorable. But so too, in the Roman mind set
> > honorable was only what was actually honored. Glory or honor were also
> > measured only in the recognition it drew from others.
> >
> > Great, noble deeds might be done, but without people knowing of them
> > there was no glory, no fame and no advantage to be gained from them.
> > And to Romans the only advantage to be gained from glory and honor
> > was to use it to climb the social ladder. Any credit among one's
> > fellow men gained by one's ability, either in office or on the
> > battlefield, was immediately used to further one's political fortunes;
> > all in the hope of finally achieving that distant goal - a seat in the
> > Roman senate. Hence any achievement was blatantly bragged about to
> > make absolutely sure everyone knew about it. And anyone too dignified
> > to do the bragging oneself, simply found others who would do it for
> > them. And so in Rome, where nobility, military and political
> > leadership were all intertwined, there would be no end of bragging,
> > showing-off and a boundless supply of flattering rumors.
> >
> > But in a society in which so much depended on the light in which
> > others saw you, their view could not only elevate you, but so too it
> > could destroy you. Any news, be it good or bad, spread like wildfire
> > in a society that spent much of the day gossiping in the public baths,
> > or mingling at the forum. Graffiti was scribbled on walls, and in the
> > inns drunken songs might ridicule the high and mighty. In the theatres
> > actors would in their plays praise or deride public figures of the
> > day. And so Rome was a city of rumors, for the entertainment of the
> > many and for the advancement of those whose worst fate could be, not
> > to be talked about.
> >
> > "The Lyre sets in the evening: it is a rainy day." - Columella
> >
> > "Outside the cave he [Hermes] found a tortoise feeding. He cleaned it
> > out, and stretched across the shell strings made from the cattle he
> > had sacrificed, and when he had thus devised a lyre he also invented a
> > plectrum ... When Apollon heard the lyre, he exchanged the cattle for
> > that. And as Hermes was tending the cattle, this time he fashioned a
> > shepherd's pipe which he proceeded to play. Covetous also of this,
> > Apollon offered him the golden staff which he held when he herded
> > cattle. But Hermes wanted both the staff and proficiency in the art of
> > prophecy in return for the pipe. So he was taught how to prophesy by
> > means of pebbles, and gave Apollon the pipe." - Apollodorus, The
> > Library 3.112-115
> >
> > "Within the temple of Apollon Lykios in Argos is a statue of ...
> > Hermes with a tortoise which he has caught to make a lyre." -
> > Pausanias, Guide to Greece 2.19.6-7
> >
> > "Constellation Lyre: Others say that when Mercury [Hermes] first made
> > the lyre on Mount Cyllene in Arcadia, he made it with seven strings to
> > correspond to the number of Atlantides, since Maia, his mother, was of
> > their company. Later, when he had driven away the cattle of Apollo and
> > had been caught in the act, to win pardon more easily, at Apollo's
> > request he gave him permission to claim the invention of the lyre, and
> > received from him a certain staff as reward ... Apollo took the lyre,
> > and is said to have taught Orpheus on it, and after he himself had
> > invented the cithara, he gave the lyre to Orpheus." - Hyginus,
> > Astronomica 2.7
> >
> > "The clever device of the lyre, it is said, was invented by Hermes,
> > who constructed it of two horns and a crossbar and a tortoise-shell;
> > and he presented it first to Apollon and the Mousai, then to Amphion
> > of Thebes." - Philostratus the Elder, Imagines 1.10
> >
> > The lyre is one of the most ancient of musical instruments. For
> > example, in the royal city of Ur (circa 3000 BC) musicians played the
> > lyre for royalty, according to excavated artifacts.
> >
> > In Greek mythology, the lyre was invented by Hermes. When only a
> > child, he pulled a cow-gut across a tortoise shell, and thereby
> > created the lyre. Hermes gave this lyre to his half-brother Apollo
> > (both were fathered by Zeus). As the god of music, Apollo became
> > associated with the instrument.
> >
> > Orpheus was given the instrument by Apollo when only a child, and the
> > Muses taught him to use it. Even Nature herself would stop to listen,
> > enraptured by his music. When Eurydice, the wife of Orpheus, died
> > from a snake bite and was taken to the Underworld, Orpheus followed in
> > hopes of bringing her back. His playing convinced Hades to release
> > Eurydice, providing Orpheus didn't look back at her during the journey
> > home - but just as he emerged into the sunlight Orpheus turned and
> > gazed upon his wife, and lost her forever.
> >
> > There are several versions about the death of Orpheus. In the most
> > widespread version Dionysus invades Thrace, home of Orpheus, and the
> > female followers of Dionysus (the Maenads) tear Orpheus from limb to
> > limb. His head is thrown into the river Hebrus, where it floats to
> > Lesbos, singing the entire time. The lyre of Orpheus is also thrown
> > into the river, and it too floats to Lesbos, beached near the temple
> > of Apollo. Apollo then convinces Zeus that the instrument should
> > become a constellation. Zeus agrees, and places the lyre of Orpheus
> > between Hercules and Cygnus.
> >
> > Valete bene!
> >
> > Cato
> >
>

Iulia Catoni s.d.

Thank you so much!
As for sources I have a book in my library that is also very interesting but it has very few source citations fortunately it only has a portion of one chapter that is of interest to me in relation to the subject matter I am researching. I shall persevere:)

Cura ut valeas,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Iuliae Aquilae sal.
>
> It is here:
>
> http://www.roman-empire.net/index.html
>
> It's an interesting series, but there doesn't seem to be any source for it itself. I *think* it may be an online version of a textbook several decades old, but I've found it very useful :)
>
> Vale!
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@> wrote:
> >
> > Ave Cato,
> >
> > Very interesting Consul. What is the source of this passage? While modern sources on a Roman antiquity have done much to peel away the layers of time, an error I have found in a few of these sources is the over application of modern sociology and psychology to the ancient mind akin to over zealous views of some 19th and early 20th century scholars. The same words in the passage could be said of modern people esp. politicians, the media and thespians. 
> > Certainly it will be noble to, for example, be appointed to the Senate based on a dignified reputation, however we know that friendship (both personal and political) political views and social standing was a great influence as well. Much depended upon interpersonal relations whether a citizen was deemed dignified or not. Loyalty (maybe) ability to keep confidences and other qualities often related to power were other considerations.  Given that so many notables had some skeleton in or out of their closets (or so history tells us) and a political ally was like a poisonous serpent that had to be handled just right or you could get bit, I find the passage left a few important elements out but I can discern the inspirational value.
> > Gratias tibi ago
> >
> > Vale bene
> >
> > Julia
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
> > >
> > > Hodiernus dies est ante diem XI Kalendas Februarius; haecdies comitialis est.
> > >
> > >
> > > ROMAN IDENTITY AND HONOR
> > >
> > > It was to others that a Roman had to look for any confirmation of his
> > > ability and identity. In Roman society confirmation by others was
> > > sought as well as required. Be they the elders of his family, his
> > > patron or his clients, army comrades, or even - in an election - the
> > > people of Rome; no Roman could be his own judge, but could see himself
> > > only through the eyes of others.
> > >
> > > One needs also to consider that Romans didn't know of modern day
> > > psychology and hence did not analyze their thoughts and feelings. They
> > > looked not inwards but to others to understand themselves. For it was
> > > the opinion of others which dictated the opinion a Roman ultimately
> > > held of himself. 'A good man' was hence a man deemed worthy by
> > > others, a man deemed honorable. But so too, in the Roman mind set
> > > honorable was only what was actually honored. Glory or honor were also
> > > measured only in the recognition it drew from others.
> > >
> > > Great, noble deeds might be done, but without people knowing of them
> > > there was no glory, no fame and no advantage to be gained from them.
> > > And to Romans the only advantage to be gained from glory and honor
> > > was to use it to climb the social ladder. Any credit among one's
> > > fellow men gained by one's ability, either in office or on the
> > > battlefield, was immediately used to further one's political fortunes;
> > > all in the hope of finally achieving that distant goal - a seat in the
> > > Roman senate. Hence any achievement was blatantly bragged about to
> > > make absolutely sure everyone knew about it. And anyone too dignified
> > > to do the bragging oneself, simply found others who would do it for
> > > them. And so in Rome, where nobility, military and political
> > > leadership were all intertwined, there would be no end of bragging,
> > > showing-off and a boundless supply of flattering rumors.
> > >
> > > But in a society in which so much depended on the light in which
> > > others saw you, their view could not only elevate you, but so too it
> > > could destroy you. Any news, be it good or bad, spread like wildfire
> > > in a society that spent much of the day gossiping in the public baths,
> > > or mingling at the forum. Graffiti was scribbled on walls, and in the
> > > inns drunken songs might ridicule the high and mighty. In the theatres
> > > actors would in their plays praise or deride public figures of the
> > > day. And so Rome was a city of rumors, for the entertainment of the
> > > many and for the advancement of those whose worst fate could be, not
> > > to be talked about.
> > >
> > > "The Lyre sets in the evening: it is a rainy day." - Columella
> > >
> > > "Outside the cave he [Hermes] found a tortoise feeding. He cleaned it
> > > out, and stretched across the shell strings made from the cattle he
> > > had sacrificed, and when he had thus devised a lyre he also invented a
> > > plectrum ... When Apollon heard the lyre, he exchanged the cattle for
> > > that. And as Hermes was tending the cattle, this time he fashioned a
> > > shepherd's pipe which he proceeded to play. Covetous also of this,
> > > Apollon offered him the golden staff which he held when he herded
> > > cattle. But Hermes wanted both the staff and proficiency in the art of
> > > prophecy in return for the pipe. So he was taught how to prophesy by
> > > means of pebbles, and gave Apollon the pipe." - Apollodorus, The
> > > Library 3.112-115
> > >
> > > "Within the temple of Apollon Lykios in Argos is a statue of ...
> > > Hermes with a tortoise which he has caught to make a lyre." -
> > > Pausanias, Guide to Greece 2.19.6-7
> > >
> > > "Constellation Lyre: Others say that when Mercury [Hermes] first made
> > > the lyre on Mount Cyllene in Arcadia, he made it with seven strings to
> > > correspond to the number of Atlantides, since Maia, his mother, was of
> > > their company. Later, when he had driven away the cattle of Apollo and
> > > had been caught in the act, to win pardon more easily, at Apollo's
> > > request he gave him permission to claim the invention of the lyre, and
> > > received from him a certain staff as reward ... Apollo took the lyre,
> > > and is said to have taught Orpheus on it, and after he himself had
> > > invented the cithara, he gave the lyre to Orpheus." - Hyginus,
> > > Astronomica 2.7
> > >
> > > "The clever device of the lyre, it is said, was invented by Hermes,
> > > who constructed it of two horns and a crossbar and a tortoise-shell;
> > > and he presented it first to Apollon and the Mousai, then to Amphion
> > > of Thebes." - Philostratus the Elder, Imagines 1.10
> > >
> > > The lyre is one of the most ancient of musical instruments. For
> > > example, in the royal city of Ur (circa 3000 BC) musicians played the
> > > lyre for royalty, according to excavated artifacts.
> > >
> > > In Greek mythology, the lyre was invented by Hermes. When only a
> > > child, he pulled a cow-gut across a tortoise shell, and thereby
> > > created the lyre. Hermes gave this lyre to his half-brother Apollo
> > > (both were fathered by Zeus). As the god of music, Apollo became
> > > associated with the instrument.
> > >
> > > Orpheus was given the instrument by Apollo when only a child, and the
> > > Muses taught him to use it. Even Nature herself would stop to listen,
> > > enraptured by his music. When Eurydice, the wife of Orpheus, died
> > > from a snake bite and was taken to the Underworld, Orpheus followed in
> > > hopes of bringing her back. His playing convinced Hades to release
> > > Eurydice, providing Orpheus didn't look back at her during the journey
> > > home - but just as he emerged into the sunlight Orpheus turned and
> > > gazed upon his wife, and lost her forever.
> > >
> > > There are several versions about the death of Orpheus. In the most
> > > widespread version Dionysus invades Thrace, home of Orpheus, and the
> > > female followers of Dionysus (the Maenads) tear Orpheus from limb to
> > > limb. His head is thrown into the river Hebrus, where it floats to
> > > Lesbos, singing the entire time. The lyre of Orpheus is also thrown
> > > into the river, and it too floats to Lesbos, beached near the temple
> > > of Apollo. Apollo then convinces Zeus that the instrument should
> > > become a constellation. Zeus agrees, and places the lyre of Orpheus
> > > between Hercules and Cygnus.
> > >
> > > Valete bene!
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> >
>

Stephanus--P. Ullerius Stephanus Consul s.p.d.

I am most happy to do that, and I'm even happier to see the request made by someone who lives it.

Vale in pace Deorum.

Paulla

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator <famila.ulleria.venii@...> wrote:
>
> Salve et Salvete;
>
> As Consul of Nova Roma, I should like to request that each and every
> one of us to try and act much more in keeping with the Virtues, Civic
> and
> Private.
>
> Fraters et Sorors Romanii, we are all of us here, I believe, because
> we share a common goal of increasing the "space" in this modern world
> of ours for Living in as Roman a manner as possible.
>
> We are, all of us (I believe), capable of making our arguments on
> behalf of our opinions in a dignified and enlightened manner.
>
> We are, all of us (I believe), capable of questioning the ideas of
> others without calling either their character or sanity into question.
>
> We are, all of us (I believe), capable of improving ourselves, and
> thereby, our common discourse.
>
> Be it resolved then, that I ask that we try and make our disagreements
> within our main forum (aka Yahoo groups Nova Roma list) pointed, yet
> pleasant, contentious, yet courteous, pleasantly banal, but
> informative, etceteras...like unto every day, face-to-face
> conversation where one would be cognizant of "real world" feed back
> and consequence.
>
> I should like to request that the Praetors try and guide those who
> post here into more adult (in the genteel and educated meaning)
> channels of conversation.
>
> No dictates, just a request, as I think we can make this a truly great
> forum for building a Nova Roma in which we can all be fully proud and
> in which we all have an equal stake.
>
> ============================
> In amicitia et fides -
> Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator
> Consul, Civis et Poeta
>

Cato Iuliae Aquilae sal.

I've always been fascinated by the level of what we'd call "self-awareness" the Romans had. They were absolutely dedicated to getting their names on anything big enough to carve them onto :)

Their sense of self was truly formed by their sense of the community of which they were a part, which is what made citizenship so precious. It also goes a long way to explaining how they viewed the sacra publica and the inseparability of the religious and public spheres: anything that happened publicly had a religious tone, and all religious public acts had the welfare and care of the state as their catalyst.

Vale,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>
> Iulia Catoni s.d.
>
> Thank you so much!
> As for sources I have a book in my library that is also very interesting but it has very few source citations fortunately it only has a portion of one chapter that is of interest to me in relation to the subject matter I am researching. I shall persevere:)
>
> Cura ut valeas,
>
> Julia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato Iuliae Aquilae sal.
> >
> > It is here:
> >
> > http://www.roman-empire.net/index.html
> >
> > It's an interesting series, but there doesn't seem to be any source for it itself. I *think* it may be an online version of a textbook several decades old, but I've found it very useful :)
> >
> > Vale!
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ave Cato,
> > >
> > > Very interesting Consul. What is the source of this passage? While modern sources on a Roman antiquity have done much to peel away the layers of time, an error I have found in a few of these sources is the over application of modern sociology and psychology to the ancient mind akin to over zealous views of some 19th and early 20th century scholars. The same words in the passage could be said of modern people esp. politicians, the media and thespians. 
> > > Certainly it will be noble to, for example, be appointed to the Senate based on a dignified reputation, however we know that friendship (both personal and political) political views and social standing was a great influence as well. Much depended upon interpersonal relations whether a citizen was deemed dignified or not. Loyalty (maybe) ability to keep confidences and other qualities often related to power were other considerations.  Given that so many notables had some skeleton in or out of their closets (or so history tells us) and a political ally was like a poisonous serpent that had to be handled just right or you could get bit, I find the passage left a few important elements out but I can discern the inspirational value.
> > > Gratias tibi ago
> > >
> > > Vale bene
> > >
> > > Julia
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
> > > >
> > > > Hodiernus dies est ante diem XI Kalendas Februarius; haecdies comitialis est.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ROMAN IDENTITY AND HONOR
> > > >
> > > > It was to others that a Roman had to look for any confirmation of his
> > > > ability and identity. In Roman society confirmation by others was
> > > > sought as well as required. Be they the elders of his family, his
> > > > patron or his clients, army comrades, or even - in an election - the
> > > > people of Rome; no Roman could be his own judge, but could see himself
> > > > only through the eyes of others.
> > > >
> > > > One needs also to consider that Romans didn't know of modern day
> > > > psychology and hence did not analyze their thoughts and feelings. They
> > > > looked not inwards but to others to understand themselves. For it was
> > > > the opinion of others which dictated the opinion a Roman ultimately
> > > > held of himself. 'A good man' was hence a man deemed worthy by
> > > > others, a man deemed honorable. But so too, in the Roman mind set
> > > > honorable was only what was actually honored. Glory or honor were also
> > > > measured only in the recognition it drew from others.
> > > >
> > > > Great, noble deeds might be done, but without people knowing of them
> > > > there was no glory, no fame and no advantage to be gained from them.
> > > > And to Romans the only advantage to be gained from glory and honor
> > > > was to use it to climb the social ladder. Any credit among one's
> > > > fellow men gained by one's ability, either in office or on the
> > > > battlefield, was immediately used to further one's political fortunes;
> > > > all in the hope of finally achieving that distant goal - a seat in the
> > > > Roman senate. Hence any achievement was blatantly bragged about to
> > > > make absolutely sure everyone knew about it. And anyone too dignified
> > > > to do the bragging oneself, simply found others who would do it for
> > > > them. And so in Rome, where nobility, military and political
> > > > leadership were all intertwined, there would be no end of bragging,
> > > > showing-off and a boundless supply of flattering rumors.
> > > >
> > > > But in a society in which so much depended on the light in which
> > > > others saw you, their view could not only elevate you, but so too it
> > > > could destroy you. Any news, be it good or bad, spread like wildfire
> > > > in a society that spent much of the day gossiping in the public baths,
> > > > or mingling at the forum. Graffiti was scribbled on walls, and in the
> > > > inns drunken songs might ridicule the high and mighty. In the theatres
> > > > actors would in their plays praise or deride public figures of the
> > > > day. And so Rome was a city of rumors, for the entertainment of the
> > > > many and for the advancement of those whose worst fate could be, not
> > > > to be talked about.
> > > >
> > > > "The Lyre sets in the evening: it is a rainy day." - Columella
> > > >
> > > > "Outside the cave he [Hermes] found a tortoise feeding. He cleaned it
> > > > out, and stretched across the shell strings made from the cattle he
> > > > had sacrificed, and when he had thus devised a lyre he also invented a
> > > > plectrum ... When Apollon heard the lyre, he exchanged the cattle for
> > > > that. And as Hermes was tending the cattle, this time he fashioned a
> > > > shepherd's pipe which he proceeded to play. Covetous also of this,
> > > > Apollon offered him the golden staff which he held when he herded
> > > > cattle. But Hermes wanted both the staff and proficiency in the art of
> > > > prophecy in return for the pipe. So he was taught how to prophesy by
> > > > means of pebbles, and gave Apollon the pipe." - Apollodorus, The
> > > > Library 3.112-115
> > > >
> > > > "Within the temple of Apollon Lykios in Argos is a statue of ...
> > > > Hermes with a tortoise which he has caught to make a lyre." -
> > > > Pausanias, Guide to Greece 2.19.6-7
> > > >
> > > > "Constellation Lyre: Others say that when Mercury [Hermes] first made
> > > > the lyre on Mount Cyllene in Arcadia, he made it with seven strings to
> > > > correspond to the number of Atlantides, since Maia, his mother, was of
> > > > their company. Later, when he had driven away the cattle of Apollo and
> > > > had been caught in the act, to win pardon more easily, at Apollo's
> > > > request he gave him permission to claim the invention of the lyre, and
> > > > received from him a certain staff as reward ... Apollo took the lyre,
> > > > and is said to have taught Orpheus on it, and after he himself had
> > > > invented the cithara, he gave the lyre to Orpheus." - Hyginus,
> > > > Astronomica 2.7
> > > >
> > > > "The clever device of the lyre, it is said, was invented by Hermes,
> > > > who constructed it of two horns and a crossbar and a tortoise-shell;
> > > > and he presented it first to Apollon and the Mousai, then to Amphion
> > > > of Thebes." - Philostratus the Elder, Imagines 1.10
> > > >
> > > > The lyre is one of the most ancient of musical instruments. For
> > > > example, in the royal city of Ur (circa 3000 BC) musicians played the
> > > > lyre for royalty, according to excavated artifacts.
> > > >
> > > > In Greek mythology, the lyre was invented by Hermes. When only a
> > > > child, he pulled a cow-gut across a tortoise shell, and thereby
> > > > created the lyre. Hermes gave this lyre to his half-brother Apollo
> > > > (both were fathered by Zeus). As the god of music, Apollo became
> > > > associated with the instrument.
> > > >
> > > > Orpheus was given the instrument by Apollo when only a child, and the
> > > > Muses taught him to use it. Even Nature herself would stop to listen,
> > > > enraptured by his music. When Eurydice, the wife of Orpheus, died
> > > > from a snake bite and was taken to the Underworld, Orpheus followed in
> > > > hopes of bringing her back. His playing convinced Hades to release
> > > > Eurydice, providing Orpheus didn't look back at her during the journey
> > > > home - but just as he emerged into the sunlight Orpheus turned and
> > > > gazed upon his wife, and lost her forever.
> > > >
> > > > There are several versions about the death of Orpheus. In the most
> > > > widespread version Dionysus invades Thrace, home of Orpheus, and the
> > > > female followers of Dionysus (the Maenads) tear Orpheus from limb to
> > > > limb. His head is thrown into the river Hebrus, where it floats to
> > > > Lesbos, singing the entire time. The lyre of Orpheus is also thrown
> > > > into the river, and it too floats to Lesbos, beached near the temple
> > > > of Apollo. Apollo then convinces Zeus that the instrument should
> > > > become a constellation. Zeus agrees, and places the lyre of Orpheus
> > > > between Hercules and Cygnus.
> > > >
> > > > Valete bene!
> > > >
> > > > Cato
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem X Kalendas Februarius; haec dies comitialis est.


"As regards the laws and institutions by which he made great progress
in both these directions, I do not think it fitting that I should
enter into all the details, not only because I fear the length of such
a discussion but also because I do not regard the recording of them as
necessary to a history intended for Greeks; but I shall give a summary
account of the principal measures, which are sufficient to reveal the
man's whole purpose, beginning with his regulations concerning the
worship of the gods. I should state, however, that all those rites
which he found established by Romulus, either in custom or in law, he
left untouched, looking upon them all as established in the best
possible manner. But whatever he thought had been overlooked by his
predecessor, he added, consecrating many precincts to those gods who
had hitherto received no honours, erecting many altars and temples,
instituting festivals in honour of each, and appointing priests to
have charge of their sanctuaries and rites, and enacting laws
concerning purifications, ceremonies, expiations and many other
observances and honours in greater number than are to be found in any
other city, either Greek or barbarian, even in those that have prided
themselves the most at one time or another upon their piety. He also
ordered that Romulus himself, as one who had shown a greatness beyond
mortal nature, should be honoured, under the name of Quirinus, by the
erection of a temple and by sacrifices throughout the year. For while
the Romans were yet in doubt whether divine providence or human
treachery had been the cause of his disappearance, a certain man,
named Julius, descended from Ascanius, who was a husbandman and of
such a blameless life that he would never have told an untruth for his
private advantage, arrived in the Forum and said that, as he was
coming in from the country, he saw Romulus departing from the city
fully armed and that, as he drew near to him, he heard him say these
words: 'Julius, announce to the Romans from me, that the genius to
whom I was allotted at my birth is conducting me to the gods, now that
I have finished my mortal life, and that I am Quirinus.' Numa, having
reduced his whole system of religious laws to writing, divided them
into eight parts, that being the number of the different classes of
religious ceremonies." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "Roman
Antiquities" 2.63


"Then she [Sekhmet] laughed with joy, and her laughter was like the
roar of a lioness hungry for the kill. Thinking that it was indeed
blood, she stooped and drank. Again and yet again she drank, laughing
with delight; and the strength of the beer mounted to her brain, so
that she could no longer slay. At last she came reeling back to where
Ra was waiting; that day she had not killed even a single man. Then
Ra said: 'You come in peace, sweet one.' And her name was changed to
Hathor, and her nature was changed also to the sweetness of love and
the strength of desire. And henceforth Hathor laid low men and women
only with the great power of love. But for ever after her priestesses
drank in her honour of the beer of Heliopolis coloured with the red
ochre of Elephantine when they celebrated her festival each New Year."
- from the Egyptian Book of The Dead

"The beauty of your face
Glitters when you rise
Oh come in peace.
One is drunk
At your beautiful face,
O Gold, Hathor." - 18th Dynasty Hymn to Hathor

In ancient Egypt, today was dedicated to the goddes Hathor. Other
names for Hathor are Het-Hert, Athyr and Hetheru. Her name appears to
mean "house of Horus", a reference to her role as a sky goddess, the
"house" denoting the heavens depicted as a great cow. (At the temple
of Queen Nefertari at Abu Simbel, Nefertari is shown as Hathor, and
her husband Ramses II is shown in one sanctuary receiving milk from
Hathor the cow.) Hathor was often regarded as the mother of the
Egyptian pharaoh, who styled himself the "son of Hathor". During the
Old Kingdom she assumed the properties of an earlier bovine goddess,
Bat. She is an ancient goddess and appears to have been mentioned as
early as the 2nd Dynasty. In early Egyptian mythology she was the
mother of the sky god Horus, but was later replaced in this capacity
by Isis. One of the tales of Hathor tells that she was originally a
goddess of destruction (Hathor-Sekhmet), but Hathor later became a
consort and/or protectress of Horus. She was depicted either as a cow
or in human form wearing a crown consisting of a sun disk held between
the horns of a cow.

Hathor was associated with erotic music and dancing, patron of sexual
love, the sky, the sun, the queen, music, dance and the arts, and the
Egyptian's cognate of the Romans' Venus, while the Greeks identified
her with Aphrodite. Egyptian women prayed to Hathor for assistance
during childbirth, and as a cow deity she was envisioned as suckling
infants. On the occasion of a birth in Egypt, seven Hathors (rather
like European fairy godmothers) would appear to "speak with one mouth"
and determine the child's fate. These goddesses were worshiped in
seven cities: Thebes, Heliopolis, Aphroditopolis, Sinai, Momemphis,
Herakleopolis, and Keset. They are linked to the Pleiades star cluster
in the constellation Taurus, known even today as the Seven Sisters. To
the Greeks, they were the seven daughters of Atlas.


Valete bene!

Cato

fyi



To: explorator@yahoogroups.com
From: rogueclassicist@...
Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2011 09:48:39 -0500
Subject: [Explorator] explorator 13.40






================================================================
explorator 13.40 January 23, 2011
================================================================
Editor's note: Most urls should be active for at least eight
hours from the time of publication.

For your computer's protection, Explorator is sent in plain text
and NEVER has attachments. Be suspicious of any Explorator which
arrives otherwise!!!

================================================================
================================================================
Thanks to Arthur Shippee, Dave Sowdon, Dorothy Lobel King,
Donna Hurst, Carolyn Snively, Keely, Edward Rockstein,
Rick Heli, Cressida Ryan, Barbara Saylor Rodgers, Kurt Theis,
John McMahon, Barnea Selavan, Joseph Lauer, Mike Ruggeri,
Richard Campbell, Richard C. Griffiths, Magnus Fiskesj�
and Ross W. Sargent for headses upses this week (as always
hoping I have left no one out).

... a rather slow week ...

================================================================
EARLY HUMANS
================================================================
How Neanderthals hunted:

http://www.russia-ic.com/education_science/science/breakthrough/1261/

More on Neanderthal faces/noses:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/science-news/8261609/Neanderthals-were-not-ugly-because-of-the-cold-new-research-finds.html
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-neanderthal-cold.html
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=234273
http://blog.seattlepi.com/thebigblog/archives/236047.asp?from=blog_last3
================================================================
ANCIENT NEAR EAST AND EGYPT
================================================================
Somewhat vague item on 'pharaonic coffins' being sound in Abu Yasseen
village:

http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/news/sewage-workers-find-3-pharaonic-coffins

OpEd on plans to close Tut's tomb:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/africaandindianocean/egypt/8267436/Why-Tutankhamun-is-history-now.html

... and more reports on its impending closure:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2011/jan/17/tutankhamun-tomb-to-close

... but they're planning to keep it open for a while longer, it seems:

http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/king-tuts-tomb-to-remain-open.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41181247/ns/technology_and_science-science/

... while Tut's mask is being readied to be transferred to its new home:

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110121a7.html
http://mdn.mainichi.jp/arts/news/20110120p2g00m0et074000c.html

... and folks are arguing about his ancestry:

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20014-royal-rumpus-over-king-tutankhamuns-ancestry.html

A kiln from southern Iran:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/161444.html

On the antiquity of human presence in Syria (some strange dates in this
one):

http://www.english.globalarabnetwork.com/201101178685/Travel/archaeologists-human-settlement-in-syria-dates-back-to-one-million-years.html

A pile of metal artifacts (ca 1800 years old) from Bazgir Tepe (Iran):

http://www.mehrnews.com/en/newsdetail.aspx?NewsID=1233637

Feature on efforts to protect the mosaics in 'Hisham's Palace':

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=4&article_id=123918
http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110123/business/drive-to-save-stunning-mosaics-in-west-bank

...related:

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=351275

Interesting 'fragment of the month' from Cambridge University Library:

http://www.lib.cam.ac.uk/Taylor-Schechter/fotm/january-2011/index.html

... and a feature on a couple of baby mummies in the ROM's collection:

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/924816--royal-ontario-museum-s-secret-mummy-babies-revealed

A feature on the James Ossuary, now that the trial's over or nearly so:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-eisenman/the-james-ossuary-and-its_b_810517.html

A feature on Eilat Mazar's work:

http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=7869.6484.0.0

Interview with Ami Mazar:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/News.aspx/2826

Another twist in that Noah's Ark 'confession':

http://michaelsheiser.com/PaleoBabble/2011/01/noahs-ark-he-said-she-said-hoax-confession-now-denied/

Egyptology News Blog:

http://egyptology.blogspot.com/

Egyptology Blog:

http://www.egyptologyblog.co.uk/

Dr Leen Ritmeyer's Blog:

http://blog.ritmeyer.com/

Paleojudaica:

http://paleojudaica.blogspot.com/

Persepolis Fortification Archives:

http://persepolistablets.blogspot.com/

Archaeologist at Large:

http://spaces.msn.com/members/ArchaeologyinEgypt/
================================================================
ANCIENT GREECE AND ROME (AND CLASSICS)
================================================================
This week's silliness involved claims of the finding of Caligula's tomb (or
at least a
statue of him):

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jan/17/caligula-tomb-found-police-statue
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348356/Caligulas-resting-place-finally--police-arrest-tomb-raider-trying-steal-statue.html
http://www.dailyindia.com/show/419794.php

... the tomb side was quickly poopooed by Mary Beard (and me)

http://timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/2011/01/this-isnt-caligulas-tomb.html
http://rogueclassicism.com/2011/01/18/caligula-tomb-silliness/
http://rogueclassicism.com/2011/01/22/purported-tomb-of-caligula-followup/

... and some news organizations did pick up on that:

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/01/18/5870712-statue-sparks-talk-of-caligulas-tomb
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503543_162-20028786-503543.html
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/18/controversy-over-alleged-discovery-of-caligulas-lost-tomb/
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/features/view/feature/No-You-Have-Not-Found-Caligulas-Tomb-3000

... and others focussed on potential lost villas:

http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/caligula-statue-hints-at-lavish-villa.html

A Roman bathhouse from Bosra (Syria):

http://www.english.globalarabnetwork.com/201101168665/Travel/roman-bathhouses-in-southern-syria-new-archaeological-discoveries.html

Ancient Transylvanians (a.k.a. the Dacians) were pretty well off (perhaps):

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/01/110113-transylvanians-gold-bracelets-treasure-dracula-vampires-science/

This one's been in the works for a while ... a major shoe manufacturer is
going to fund restoration of the Colosseum:

http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/World/Story/STIStory_627155.html
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/01/21/tods-founder-restore-romes-colosseum-639295544/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/21/tods-founder-to-restore-r_n_812444.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/go/rss/int/news/-/news/world-europe-12256813
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2011-01-21-colosseum_N.htm
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/tods-to-help-fund-colosseum-restoration/
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h5EKJITFly9omNiw-XTWziHHD-Bw?docId=b51dff06f7814c2fbf8e46b2e3ea0b34
http://af.reuters.com/article/cameroonNews/idAFLDE70K1T920110121

Repurposing a Roman urn:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-12258359
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349259/Electric-lamp-sells-445k-revealed-2k-year-old-relic.html

Evidence of a Roman vicus/shanty town in Teesdale:

http://www.teesdalemercury.co.uk/teesdale-news/story,3127.html

How Romans made pottery in Britain:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-romans-pottery-britain.html
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2011/january/british-pottery-project-012011.html

Interesting series of essays on Plato's laws by Victor Nuovo:

http://www.addisonindependent.com/category/tags/plato-2010

Knox College is looking at an ancient Roman village:

http://www.knox.edu/News-and-Events/News-Archive/Knox-Students-and-Faculty-Research-Ancient-Roman-Village.html

ClassCon in the Chilcot enquiry:

http://blogs.news.sky.com/editorsblog/Post:31b95f7b-8a1d-4097-96ab-87a6136715c7

cf: http://rogueclassicism.com/2011/01/20/latin-intelligence/

What Philip Freeman has been up to:

http://www.luther.edu/headlines/?story_id=314338

... and here's another review of his Alexander book:

http://www.boston.com/ae/books/articles/2011/01/18/alexander_the_great_bio_gives_a_human_look_to_a_classic_conqueror/

Review (I think) of Joan Mertens, *How to Read Greek Vases*:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704590704576092403407821420.html?mod=googlenews_wsj#articleTabs%3Darticle

Another review of Stacy Schiff:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/jan/22/cleopatra-life-stacy-schiff-review

Excerpt from Gary Corby's *Pericles Commission*:

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/sunday-heraldsun/sunday-read-the-pericles-commission/story-e6frf92f-1225988428444

Latest reviews from Scholia:

http://www.classics.ukzn.ac.za/reviews/

Latest reviews from BMCR:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/recent.html

Visit our blog:

http://rogueclassicism.com/
================================================================
EUROPE AND THE UK (+ Ireland)
================================================================
Pondering bog bodies:

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/columnist/vergano/2011-01-16-bog-bodies_N.htm

Haven't had a facial reconstruction in a while ... here's some third
millennium folk from the
Ural Mountains region:

http://www.russia-ic.com/news/show/11421/

Reviewish sort of thing of *Viking DNA: The Wirral and West Lancashire
Project*:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-dna-viking-north-west.html

Archaeology in Europe Blog:

http://archaeology-in-europe.blogspot.com/

================================================================
ASIA AND THE SOUTH PACIFIC
================================================================
Stones destined for Edo castle found during an underwater survey:

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/national/T110117003127.htm

A recently-found megalith site in South Sumatra has been deemed 'sacred':

http://www.archnews.co.uk/world-archaeology/asia-archaeology/4830-megalithic-site-together-with-a-mass-grave-now-declared-sacred.html

Paper on traditional textiles of southwest Chinese Minorities:

http://scholarworks.iu.edu/journals/index.php/mar/article/view/889/1028

East Asian Archaeology:

http://eastasiablog.wordpress.com/2010/05/20/east-asian-archaeology-cultural-heritage-%E2%80%93-2052010/

Southeast Asian Archaeology Newsblog:

http://www.southeastasianarchaeology.com/

New Zealand Archaeology eNews:

http://www.nzarchaeology.org/netsubnews.htm
================================================================
NORTH AMERICA
================================================================
A potential site with a Colonial fort in St Augustine:

http://www.news4jax.com/news/26528165/detail.html
http://jacksonville.com/news/metro/2011-01-16/story/st-augustines-city-archaeologist-believes-hes-found-old-fort
http://staugustine.com/news/local-news/2011-01-15/find-could-be-1500s
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/18/2020982/dig-could-reveal-colonial-fort.html

... and just down the road from me, archaeology is holding up community
centre
construction:

http://www.thespec.com/community/article/474582--archaeology-delays-stoney-creek-centre

Native American artifacts from various periods turn up during a bridge
replacement project
in New Jersey:

http://www.nativetimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4831:nj-bridge-dig-turns-up-native-american-artifacts&catid=43&Itemid=19

Project to see how humans affected landscapes prior to European contact:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-footprints-ancient-people-affect-modern.html

Plans for an archaeological park at a colonial-era mill site called Petty's
Run (NJ) aren't going
to happen, apparently:

http://www.mercerspace.com/article/86962-archaeology+park+plans+ruined

Interesting item on the restoration of a 1770 map of New York City:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/17/nyregion/17map.html

More on the remains of the oldest-known domesticated dog
in North America:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=44306
http://www.startribune.com/nation/114243479.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/01/19/9400-year-old-dog-found_n_810846.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110119/ap_on_sc/us_early_dog
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/01/19/us/AP-US-Early-Dog.html
http://www.therecord.com/news/article/475878--ancient-dog-was-apparently-tasty
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Latest-News-Wires/2011/0119/9-400-year-old-dog-found-earliest-found-in-Americas?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+feeds%2Fusa+%28Christian+Science+Monitor+%7C+USA%29
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1348546/Bone-fragment-confirms-dogs-bred-food-9-400-years-ago.html

More on that purported Blackbeard's sword find:

http://www.sys-con.com/node/1680223
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/archaeologists-discover-famous-pirates-treasure-off-north-carolinas-coast-114123019.html
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2011/01/sword-belonging-to-infamous-pirate-blackbeard-discovered-in-shipwreck/

More on the USS Revenge:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/01/18/AR2011011802806.html

More on the PeeDee:

http://www.dailygamecock.com/news/item/223-usc-archaeologists-find-civil-war-boat

Review of Mosette Broderick, *Triumvirate*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/16/nyregion/16book.html

================================================================
CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA
================================================================
Some new geoglyphs found on the Nazca Plateau:

http://www.andina.com.pe/Ingles/Noticia.aspx?id=UiWxbbOu2rs=
http://japantoday.com/category/national/view/japanese-team-finds-2-new-geoglyphs-on-perus-nazca-plateau

A 1200 years b.p. Sican culture royal tomb from Lambayaque (Peru):

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=384541&CategoryId=14095
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2011/01/20/year-old-royal-tomb-uncovered-peru/
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20110120/tsc-tomb-of-pre-columbian-noble-discover-c2ff8aa.html

Hype for USCB's plans to work at El Pilar:

http://www.thedailysound.com/News/012211-UCSB-MAYA-MEXICO

Three Clovis points from Mexico:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=44358
http://www.inah.gob.mx/index.php/boletines/14-hallazgos/4828-hallazgo-revelaria-contacto-del-hombre-con-gonfoterio-en-norteamerica

Studying 17th-century drawings of prehispanic sites around Mexico:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=44253

Plans to investigate legends of a Maya city at Quetzalenango (Guatemala):

http://www.prensalibre.com/noticias/Excavaciones-podrian-validar-leyenda-altense_0_409759039.html

Honours for Pilar Luna:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=44326

A Swiss collector has returned four pre-Columbian mummies to Chile:

http://www.boston.com/news/science/articles/2011/01/20/swiss_collector_returns_4_ancient_mummies_to_chile
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-swiss-collector-ancient-mummies-chile.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110120/ap_on_sc/eu_switzerland_chilean_mummies

Interesting blog post on axial symmetry at Uxmal:

http://blog.classicist.org/?p=2046

Mike Ruggeri's Ancient Americas Breaking News:

http://web.mac.com/michaelruggeri

Ancient MesoAmerica News:

http://ancient-mesoamerica-news-updates.blogspot.com/
================================================================
OTHER ITEMS OF INTEREST
================================================================
More on tree rings and the rise and fall of empires:

http://www.tgdaily.com/general-sciences-features/53569-tree-rings-offer-glimpse-into-ancient-rome
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/science/stories/2011/01/16/climate-had-role-in-changing-cultures.html
http://green.yahoo.com/news/afp/20110114/sc_afp/climatescienceuseurope.html
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=133143758&ps=cprs
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1348127/climate-change-blame-fall-Roman-Empire-say-scientists.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1347917/Was-climate-change-responsible-rise-fall-Roman-Empire.html

... and now they're getting monk's diaries in the climate-change research:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20110117/tsc-monk-s-diaries-help-weather-study-4b158bc.html

Pondering Iron-Age beer (I think we had this before):

http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/iron-age-beer-celtic-brewery-110118.html
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-brewery-bc-reveals-secrets.html
http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2011/01/17/Iron-Age-beer-making-analyzed-at-dig/UPI-30671295321286/

... and a follow-up of sorts (I think) to that shipwreck-champagne discovery
last summer:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hpYud37EEIr7VxcPCVPlEFbhzj7w?docId=CNG.9d98f5078c22208156a5fddb2195a4d0.131

Someone doesn't like all those things they're saying about Gauguin:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/news/gauguins-british-relative-disputes-artists-notoriety-2191988.html

A history (of sorts) of vaccinations:

https://mail.google.com/mail/#label/4explorator/12daa91d12a5755f

Interesting story about a 100-year-old French house that is now open to the
public:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12214885

Revisionism about Galileo and the Church:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-revelations-galileo-bruno-aliens.html

Interesting use of 'granite stitching' to help preserve a temple in India:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12127154

Review of James Miller, *Examined Lives*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/23/books/review/Bakewell-t.html
================================================================
TOURISTY THINGS
================================================================
Tarquinia:

http://www.time.com/time/travel/article/0,31542,2043335,00.html
================================================================
BLOGS
================================================================
About.com Archaeology:

http://archaeology.about.com/

Archaeology Briefs:

http://archaeologybriefs.blogspot.com/

Taygete Atlantis excavations blogs aggregator:

http://planet.atlantides.org/taygete/

Time Machine:

http://heatherpringle.wordpress.com/

================================================================
CRIME BEAT
================================================================
Boy George returned an icon he owned to Cyprus when he learned it had
previously been stolen:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=44362
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1348955/Boy-George-returns-stolen-picture-Christ-Cyprus.html#ixzz1BfBh8Kk2
http://www.cyprus-mail.com/church/archbishop-moved-boy-george-gesture/20110121

Another bust in Thessaloniki:

http://www.ana-mpa.gr/anaweb/user/showplain?maindoc=9489265&maindocimg=9489887&service=96&showLink=true

The US returned some stolen Degas (Degases?) to France:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=44369

Looting Matters:

http://lootingmatters.blogspot.com/

Illicit Cultural Property:

http://illicit-cultural-property.blogspot.com/
================================================================
NUMISMATICA
================================================================
An exhibition of Roman coins found in India:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/A-glimpse-of-rare-Roman-coins-at-Museum/articleshow/7315542.cms

A rare coin collection has been returned to its rightful heir:

http://www.tctimes.com/articles/2011/01/16/living/doc4d30fd1c27426019494826.txt

More on that coin of Antiochus:

http://earthsky.org/human-world/ancient-greek-coin-might-mark-blotting-out-of-jupiter-by-the-moon

Latest eSylum newsletter:

http://www.coinbooks.org/club_nbs_esylum_v14n03.html

Ancient Coin Collecting:

http://ancientcoincollecting.blogspot.com/

Ancient Coins:

http://classicalcoins.blogspot.com/

Coin Link:

http://www.coinlink.com/News/
================================================================
EXHIBITIONS, AUCTIONS, AND MUSEUM-RELATED
================================================================
Lewis Chessmen:

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2102326

Vatican Treasures:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/fl-vatican-exhibit-012011-20110119,0,5303531.story

Vatican Manuscripts:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=44379

The Diary:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/22/arts/design/22diary.html

The Story of Francis Buckley:

http://www.ancientdigger.com/2011/01/saddleworths-archaeology-collection-on.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+TheAncientDigger+%28The+Ancient+Digger%29

Lod Mosaic:

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/01/16/eye-on-new-york-lod-mosaic/

All sorts of antiques fairs etc. going on in New York right now:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/arts/design/21fairs.html

A History of the World (BM)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/explorerflash/

================================================================
PERFORMANCES AND THEATRE-RELATED
================================================================
The Odyssey:

http://www.startribune.com/entertainment/onstage/114292534.html?elr=KArksD:aDyaEP:kD:aUg:oaEQDUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aULPQL7PQLanchO7DiUr

Cymbeline:

http://theater.nytimes.com/2011/01/18/theater/18cymbeline.html

Interesting 'Cultural Olympiad' plan for the Globe Theatre:

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/21/shakespeares-globe-theater-to-present-the-bards-canon-in-38-languages/

The 'top ten composers' series continues with Verdi and Wagner:

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/17/top-10-composers-hailing-operas-shakespeare-and-its-proust
================================================================
OBITUARIES
================================================================
Karl Kilinski:

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/dallasmorningnews/obituary.aspx?n=karl-kilinski&pid=147666917
================================================================
HUMOUR
================================================================
The Trojan ...

http://comics.com/free_range/2011-01-16/
================================================================
PODCASTS
================================================================
Latest Archaeo News podcast:

http://www.pasthorizons.com/index.php/archives/01/2011/archaeo-news-podcast-184

The Book and the Spade:

http://www.radioscribe.com/bknspade.htm

The Dig:

http://www.thedigradio.com/

Stone Pages Archaeology News:

http://news.stonepages.com/

Archaeologica Audio News:

http://www.archaeologychannel.org/AudioNews.asp

Naked Archaeology Podcast:

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/podcasts/archaeology/
================================================================
EXPLORATOR is a weekly newsletter representing the fruits of
the labours of 'media research division' of The Atrium. Various
on-line news and magazine sources are scoured for news of the
ancient world (broadly construed: practically anything relating
to archaeology or history prior to about 1700 or so is fair
game) and every Sunday they are delivered to your mailbox free of
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================================================================
Useful Addresses
================================================================
Past issues of Explorator are available on the web via our
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================================================================
Explorator is Copyright (c) 2011 David Meadows. Feel free to
distribute these listings via email to your pals, students,
teachers, etc., but please include this copyright notice. These
links are not to be posted to any website by any means (whether
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e

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem IX Kalendas Februarius; haec dies comitialis est.


"The first division of religious rites he assigned to the thirty
curiones, who, as I have stated, perform the public sacrifices for the
curiae. The second, to those called by the Greeks stephanephoroi or
'wearers of the crown' and by the Romans flamines; they are given this
name from their wearing caps and fillets, called 'flama', which they
continue to wear even to this day. The third, to the commanders of
the celeres, who, as I have stated, were appointed to be the
body-guards of the kings and fought both as cavalry and infantry; for
these also performed certain specified rites. The fourth, to those
who interpret the signs sent by the gods and determine what they
portend both to private persons and to the public; these, from one
branch of the speculations belonging to their art, the Romans call
augurs, and we should call them oionopoloi or 'soothsayers by means of
birds'; they are skilled in all sorts of divination in use among the
Romans, whether founded on signs appearing in the heavens, in mid-air
or on the earth. The fifth he assigned to the virgins who are the
guardians of the sacred fire and who are called Vestals by the Romans,
after the goddess whom they serve, he himself having been the first to
build a temple at Rome to Vesta and to appoint virgins to be her
priestesses. But concerning them it is necessary to make a few
statements that are most essential, since the subject requires it; for
there are problems that have been thought worthy of investigation by
many Roman historians in connexion with this topic and those authors
who have not diligently examined into the causes of these matters have
published rather worthless accounts.

At any rate, as regards the building of the temple of Vesta, some
ascribe it to Romulus, looking upon it as an inconceivable thing that,
when a city was being founded by a man skilled in divination, a public
hearth should not have been erected first of all, particularly since
the founder had been brought up at Alba, where the temple of this
goddess had been established from ancient times, and since his mother
had been her priestess. And recognizing two classes of religious
ceremonies — the one public and common to all the citizens, and the
other private and confined to particular families — they declare that
on both these grounds Romulus was under every obligation to worship
this goddess. For they say that nothing is more necessary for men
than a public hearth, and that nothing more nearly concerned Romulus,
in view of his descent, since his ancestors had brought the sacred
rites of this goddess from Ilium and his mother had been her
priestess. Those, then, who for these reasons ascribe the building of
the temple to Romulus rather than to Numa seem to be right, in so far
as the general principle is concerned that, when a city was being
founded, it was necessary for a hearth to be established first of all,
particularly by a man who was not unskilled in matters of religion;
but of the details relating to the building of the present temple and
to the virgins who are in the service of the goddess they seem to have
been ignorant. For, in the first place, it was not Romulus who
consecrated to the goddess this place where the sacred fire is
preserved (a strong proof of this is that it is outside of what they
call Roma Quadrata, which he surrounded with a wall, whereas all men
place the shrine of the public hearth in the best part of a city and
nobody outside of the walls); and, in the second place, he did not
appoint the service of the goddess to be performed by virgins, being
mindful, I believe, of the experience that had befallen his mother,
who while she was serving the goddess lost her virginity; for he
doubtless felt that the remembrance of his domestic misfortunes would
make it impossible for him to punish according to the traditional laws
any of the priestesses he should find to have been violated. For this
reason, therefore, he did not build a common temple of Vesta nor did
he appoint virgins to be her priestesses; but having erected a hearth
in each of the thirty curiae on which the members sacrificed, he
appointed the chiefs of the curiae to be the priests of those hearths,
therein imitating the customs of the Greeks that are still observed in
the most ancient cities. At any rate, what are called prytaneia among
them are temples of Hestia, and are served by the chief magistrates of
the cities." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus 2.64-65


"On the ninth day before the Kalends of February at about the seventh
hour he hesitated whether or not to get up for luncheon, since his
stomach was still disordered from excess of food on the day before,
but at length he came out at the persuasion of his friends. In the
covered passage through which he had to pass, some boys of good birth,
who had been summoned from Asia to appear on the stage, were
rehearsing their parts, and he stopped to watch and encourage them;
and had not the leader of the troop complained that he had a chill, he
would have returned and had the performance given at once. From this
point there are two versions of the story: some say that as he was
talking with the boys, Chaerea came up behind, and gave him a deep cut
in the neck, having first cried, 'Take that,' and that then the
tribune Cornelius Sabinus, who was the other conspirator and faced
Gaius, stabbed him in the breast. Others say that Sabinus, after
getting rid of the crowd through centurions who were in the plot,
asked for the watchword, as soldiers do; and that when Gaius gave him
'Jupiter,' he cried 'So be it,' and as Gaius looked around, he split
his jawbone with a blow of his sword. As he lay upon the ground and
with writhing limbs called out that he still lived, the others
dispatched him with thirty wounds; for the general signal was 'Strike
again.' Some even thrust their swords through his privates. At the
beginning of the disturbance his bearers ran to his aid with their
poles, and presently the Germans of his body-guard, and they slew
several of his assassins, as well as some inoffensive senators." -
Suetonius, Lives of the Caesars, "Gaius" LVIII

"His surname Caligula he derived from a joke of the troops, because he
was brought up in their midst in the dress of a common soldier. To
what extent besides he won their love and devotion by being reared in
fellowship with them is especially evident from the fact that when
they threatened mutiny after the death of Augustus and were ready for
any act of madness, the mere sight of Gaius unquestionably calmed
them. For they did not become quiet until they saw that he was being
spirited away because of the danger from their outbreak and taken for
protection to the nearest town. Then at last they became contrite, and
laying hold of the carriage and stopping it, begged to be spared the
disgrace which was being put upon them." - Suetonius, Lives of the
Caesars, "Gaius" IX


On this day in AD 41 the emperor Gaius Caesar Augustus Germanicus,
known as "Caligula", was murdered by his own Praetorian Guard, led by
Cassius Chaerea. He was 29 years old, and had reigned for just under
4 years. His brutality and fits of insanity are legendary; he did
not, however, make his horse Incitatus a senator. He did consider
making him a consul.


Valete bene!

Cato

A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis, praesertim
Latineloquentibus, S.P.D.

Avitus provided the information below on one of our course sites. As
several of you are aware, we teach Latin language courses by two different
methods, traditional and assimilation, and have reinstated the Rudímenta
Latína course, which deals with the history of Latin. Fewer know that we
also offer field courses in conjunction with others. The information below
is intended for highly-competent Latinists wishing to take such a field
course; another for more general study will follow. The provider, Reginald
Foster, is a well-known senior Latinist affiliated with a place where Latin
is highly valued...the Vatican.



===============================================

NON ENIM TAM PRAECLARVM EST SCIRE LATINE QVAM TVRPE NESCIRE
NEQVE TAM ID

ORATORIS BONI QVAM CIVIS ROMANI PROPRIVM VIDETVR

[ Marcus Tullius Cicero : Brutus 37, 140 ]

____________________________________________________________________________
____________________________

³A E S T I V A M I L V A V C H I A E L A T I N I T A S ³
=========================================================
(SUMMER LATIN IN MILWAUKEE, WISCONSIN, U.S.A.)


§ Not any kind of rushed immersion into Latin nor a high-pressure tour
of so-called ŒLatin Grammar¹, but rather: a slow and thorough, real and
immediate experience of the whole Latin language in all its historical
periods and types of literature from the past 2300 years ­ through a total,
daily, conscious involvement in precise comprehension of original texts and
unprepared first-sight Latin readings, in personal composition and
extemporaneous Latin Conversation, in discussions about classroom pedagogy
and teaching methods: (all joined with a solid reliving of the Roman world
by means of simple, inexpensive outings and literary trips with the aid of
real, pertinent Latin sources and writings.)

§ Projected and provided only for very well trained Latin teachers
and/or fully educated high-level advanced Latin scholars [at least 21 years
of age ­ to be proven by official documentation] who have decided to develop
further and are determined to advance in Latin mastery and competence
through serious, joyful, constant application. Consequently: = The summer
program is for sure not advisable nor available to inexperienced beginners,
to the first-level students, to fresh grammar-victims, even with the best of
intentions. ((N.B. A preliminary written exercise and examination to be
completed privately and returned quickly by all candidates will show to the
people themselves and to the organizer each one¹s preparation and readiness,
or not. ))

§ A minimum of two encounters of 90 minutes, every day according to a
separately printed outline of class material, six days a week, for eight
complete weeks, from beginning on Monday June 6th, until the conclusion on
Saturday July 30st, of the year 2011. In two sections or on two levels
which occupy, at a slower pace: Œ iuniores¹ = rusty scholars, antiquated
Latinists and first-time Roman summer-schoolers, at a faster speed:
Œseniores¹ = better equipped, tested Latin veterans or perhaps former
Foster subjects: to whom upon request a document can be given after the
proper completion of each one¹s complete course. Except for very special
cases, no person may take any Summer Experience more than twice nor attend
two years in succession: and this is simply in order to avoid many
disgusting repetitions and inevitable boredom.

§ Required, personal undertakings and assignments outside of class
times ­ both in writing and by memory: enriched by spontaneous, casual,
evening meetings Œsub arboribus¹ in nearby gardens with various Latin
readings and free Latin conversations, and also complemented with economical
Latin excursions to meaningful places in and around the area.

§ Therefore: even if guests and observers, relatives and friends of the
approved participants are always welcome to share the summer Latin event
together and the outside activities, nevertheless officially inscribed
members who arbitrarily drift in and out, who inconsistently appear and
disappear because of some private cause, some outside rule of observance or
of the weather, who are on a summer vacation with Latin thrown in or a
honeymoon, who neglect their weekly ³Ludi Aestivi², who do not normally
interact with the others in the Œexperience¹ are neither tolerated nor
recognized, and will be told publicly to abandon summer Latin for the
greater consolation and encouragement of the remaining faithful associates.


(over)
§ While lodging arrangements in the Midwest and surrounding area for
the time of the summer school are the exclusive responsibility of the
partakers themselves confidently entrusted to their ingenuity and good luck,
especially by employing the many offerings on the Internet, all other
classroom materials and the instruction itself are supplied without any
financial obligations or strings attached by Reginald Foster, near the
address provided below, in keeping with the spirit, conditions and
principles indicated above; accordingly ­ without any fixed fees or tuitions
at all, even though spontaneous and completely anonymous contributions to
the Œgood Latin cause¹ are certainly presumed and most gratefully received.

§ Anybody interested in this adventure and undertaking can contact ­
for answers and information:




Reginald Thomas Foster


3553 South 41st St Apt. 403

Milwaukee, Wisconsin ­ 53221-5744
U. S. A

=========================================


Valete.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 
A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus tironibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

    Avítus reappeared on our faculty list the other day, and posted the item
copied below (and one other item which preceded) on one of our course sites.
 As some of you are aware, we offer Latin language classes taught by both
assimilation and traditional methods as well as the introductory Rudímenta
Latína one, which deals with the history of Latin.  Fewer are aware,
however, that we also offer field courses in Latin immersion (conducted by
others) and the Auctórés Latíní one conducted by Reginald Foster, a senior
Latinist associated with the Vatican.  Information on the latter is below;
an English text on the more advanced course has preceded this. This
information is being crossposted to several lists as not all who might be
interested are on all of them; I apologize for any duplications.

Valéte.  

==============================

    UNIVERSUM   LATINITATIS   CURRICULUM


A.    Annua Exercitatio Communis

·     Milvauchiae a mense Octobri ad Maium
·     in triginta quinque congressibus gratuitis
·     quinque ³Experientiarum² sive graduum ab imo ad summum
·     feriis opportunis interpositis
·     pluribus cum lectionibus Œad libitum¹.

[ATS: This is a more general course, from October to May in Milwaukee,
in 35 free meetings in five levels, with holidays in between and lessons /
readings ad libitum].
 
 
 
B.     Aestiva Eruditio Altior
 
·     ibidem mensibus Iunio et Iulio
·     sexies in hebdomada gratis
·     duorum ordinum superioris institutionis: Iuniorum et Seniorum
·     itineribus litterariis propositis
·     liberis cum sessionibus Œsub arboribus¹.

[ATS: This is a more concentrated summer course six times a week, also
free, divided into two levels, senior and junior, with literary excursions
and outdoor sessions].
 
 
PETE  SCRIBE  QUAERE :
 
Reginald Thomas Foster
3553 South 41st Street, Apt #403
Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53221-5744
U.S.A
 
 
414-755-9686







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VIII Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis est.

INDUSTRY IN THE REPUBLIC AND EMPIRE

Latium, the area around Rome, was initially an agricultural region.
But the early influence of the Etruscans and the Greek colonies in
Italy had inspired the creation of a local industry. Pottery was
introduced from Campania and the art of bronze-casting from Etruria.

Rome's conquest of Italy didn't stifle industry but encourage it. It
may well have been that Roman law and order, as well as the political
stability provided the reasons for trade to thrive. Also Rome never
used its authority to insist on goods from the capital be given any
preference. Its dependent territories didn't buy goods from Rome due
to force, but because they chose to do so. Gradually, as Rome
extended its power and empire with conquests, the increasing
population and demands for luxuries, as well as the construction of
large public works caused many industries to flourish; but Rome,
although important as an industrial center, was largely a city which
consumed goods, rather than producing them. Imports exceeded exports
by far (with the exception of bronze goods which were exported all
over the empire).

As the unrivalled metropolis, Rome achieved an absolute lead in in the
production of luxury goods, particularly in articles of precious
metals, such as jewelry and engraved cups. Foreign craftsmen who
migrated to the city, mostly Greeks, created refined masterpieces in
their workshops. Meanwhile the building trade naturally became far
more developed in Rome than anywhere else.

Industry though flourished elsewhere. Genoa, Ostia and Ravenna were
Rome's major harbors, providing her with warships as well as
benefiting from the rise in shipping trade. Como, Sulmona, Salerno
and Puteoli were centres of the iron industry which received great
quantities of iron ore from the minors of Elba. Campania grew rich
not only on its fertile soil which grew, among other things, some of
the best wines, but also for its industrial products. Bronzes from
Capua, terra cotta ware from Puteoli, Cumae and Ischia, glass form
Cumae, Sorento and Pompeii, liquamen from Pompeii. Apulia produced the
finest wool. Northern Italy supplied bronze articles from Bergamo,
bricks from Modena and amphorae from Pola. So, too, did it boast a
famous woollen industry at Istria, Padua and Parma and dye works at
Aquileia. Aquileia was further also known for its cloth making and
glass industry, as well as for its workshops for amber (sucinum) which
was imported from as far away as the Baltic in northern Europe.

Industry benefited much from the existence of a large, almost
limitless empire. Technical advances were helped by the unity of the
empire which much helped the spread of new ideas. But so too, the
policing of the seas and the construction of the famous Roman roads
aided trade into the most distant countries. And all the while the
vast city of Rome and its massive standing army provided vast a demand
for goods.

The rich eastern provinces sent to Rome rare and exotic goods,
fashioned in their factories and workshops from materials from yet
more far flung regions of the world. Silk from China, emeralds from
Scythia, perfumes from Arabia, glass and papyrus from Egypt (Egypt was
the oldest glass-producing country if the Mediterranean and hence had
vast expertise in the matter, producing by far the finest glassware of
the day). In the western and northern provinces, too, industries were
greatly developed, entering into competition with Italian producers.
Spain already in the days of empire should produce some of the finest
steel, but also provided fine wool and the highest quality liquamen.
Gaul became famous for its bronze work, shoes, and woollen industry.
Noricum produced the finest weapons, the Rhine valley the best
earthenware.



"Having spent the greater part of his life under these and like
circumstances, he became emperor in his fiftieth year by a remarkable
freak of fortune. When the assassins of Gaius shut out the crowd under
pretence that the emperor wished to be alone, Claudius was ousted with
the rest and withdrew to an apartment called the Hermaeum; and a
little later, in great terror at the news of the murder, he stole away
to a balcony hard by and hid among the curtains which hung before the
door. As he cowered there, a common soldier, who was prowling about
at random, saw his feet, intending to ask who he was, pulled him out
and recognized him; and when Claudius fell at his feet in terror, he
hailed him as emperor. Then he took him to the rest of his comrades,
who were as yet in a condition of uncertainty and purposeless rage.
These placed him in a litter, took turns in carrying it, since his own
bearers had made off, and bore him to the Camp in a state of despair
and terror, while the throng that met him pitied him, as an innocent
man who was being hurried off to execution. Received within the
rampart, he spent the night among the sentries with much less hope
than confidence; for the consuls with the senate and the city cohorts
had taken possession of the Forum and the Capitol, resolved on
maintaining the public liberty. When he too was summoned to the House
by the tribunes of the commons, to give his advice on the situation,
he sent word that "he was detained by force and compulsion." But the
next day, since the senate was dilatory in putting through its plans
because of the tiresome bickering of those who held divergent views,
while the populace, who stood about the hall, called for one ruler and
expressly named Claudius, he allowed the armed assembly of the
soldiers to swear allegiance to him, and promised each man fifteen
thousand sesterces; being the first of the Caesars who resorted to
bribery to secure the fidelity of the troops." - Seutonius, Lives of
the Twelve Caesars, "Claudius" 10

"The hairy fifth to enslave the State
To enslave the State, though against his will,
Shall be that idiot whom all despised.
He shall have hair in a generous mop.
He shall give Rome water and winter bread
And die at the hand of his wife, no wife,
To the gain of his son, no son" - Sybilline Oracle, Robert Graves, "I,
Claudius" ch. 1

On this day in AD 41, Tiberius Claudius Drusus Nero Germanicus Caesar
was proclaimed imperator, following the murder of his nephew "Caligula".

Valete bene!

Cato

Salve Cato, and thank you so much for these posts.



Vale,

L. Aemilia



_____

From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Cato
Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:46 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] a.d. VIII Kal. Feb.





Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VIII Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis
est.

INDUSTRY IN THE REPUBLIC AND EMPIRE

Latium, the area around Rome, was initially an agricultural region.
But the early influence of the Etruscans and the Greek colonies in
Italy had inspired the creation of a local industry. Pottery was
introduced from Campania and the art of bronze-casting from Etruria.

Rome's conquest of Italy didn't stifle industry but encourage it. It
may well have been that Roman law and order, as well as the political
stability provided the reasons for trade to thrive. Also Rome never
used its authority to insist on goods from the capital be given any
preference. Its dependent territories didn't buy goods from Rome due
to force, but because they chose to do so. Gradually, as Rome
extended its power and empire with conquests, the increasing
population and demands for luxuries, as well as the construction of
large public works caused many industries to flourish; but Rome,
although important as an industrial center, was largely a city which
consumed goods, rather than producing them. Imports exceeded exports
by far (with the exception of bronze goods which were exported all
over the empire).

As the unrivalled metropolis, Rome achieved an absolute lead in in the
production of luxury goods, particularly in articles of precious
metals, such as jewelry and engraved cups. Foreign craftsmen who
migrated to the city, mostly Greeks, created refined masterpieces in
their workshops. Meanwhile the building trade naturally became far
more developed in Rome than anywhere else.

Industry though flourished elsewhere. Genoa, Ostia and Ravenna were
Rome's major harbors, providing her with warships as well as
benefiting from the rise in shipping trade. Como, Sulmona, Salerno
and Puteoli were centres of the iron industry which received great
quantities of iron ore from the minors of Elba. Campania grew rich
not only on its fertile soil which grew, among other things, some of
the best wines, but also for its industrial products. Bronzes from
Capua, terra cotta ware from Puteoli, Cumae and Ischia, glass form
Cumae, Sorento and Pompeii, liquamen from Pompeii. Apulia produced the
finest wool. Northern Italy supplied bronze articles from Bergamo,
bricks from Modena and amphorae from Pola. So, too, did it boast a
famous woollen industry at Istria, Padua and Parma and dye works at
Aquileia. Aquileia was further also known for its cloth making and
glass industry, as well as for its workshops for amber (sucinum) which
was imported from as far away as the Baltic in northern Europe.

Industry benefited much from the existence of a large, almost
limitless empire. Technical advances were helped by the unity of the
empire which much helped the spread of new ideas. But so too, the
policing of the seas and the construction of the famous Roman roads
aided trade into the most distant countries. And all the while the
vast city of Rome and its massive standing army provided vast a demand
for goods.

The rich eastern provinces sent to Rome rare and exotic goods,
fashioned in their factories and workshops from materials from yet
more far flung regions of the world. Silk from China, emeralds from
Scythia, perfumes from Arabia, glass and papyrus from Egypt (Egypt was
the oldest glass-producing country if the Mediterranean and hence had
vast expertise in the matter, producing by far the finest glassware of
the day). In the western and northern provinces, too, industries were
greatly developed, entering into competition with Italian producers.
Spain already in the days of empire should produce some of the finest
steel, but also provided fine wool and the highest quality liquamen.
Gaul became famous for its bronze work, shoes, and woollen industry.
Noricum produced the finest weapons, the Rhine valley the best
earthenware.

"Having spent the greater part of his life under these and like
circumstances, he became emperor in his fiftieth year by a remarkable
freak of fortune. When the assassins of Gaius shut out the crowd under
pretence that the emperor wished to be alone, Claudius was ousted with
the rest and withdrew to an apartment called the Hermaeum; and a
little later, in great terror at the news of the murder, he stole away
to a balcony hard by and hid among the curtains which hung before the
door. As he cowered there, a common soldier, who was prowling about
at random, saw his feet, intending to ask who he was, pulled him out
and recognized him; and when Claudius fell at his feet in terror, he
hailed him as emperor. Then he took him to the rest of his comrades,
who were as yet in a condition of uncertainty and purposeless rage.
These placed him in a litter, took turns in carrying it, since his own
bearers had made off, and bore him to the Camp in a state of despair
and terror, while the throng that met him pitied him, as an innocent
man who was being hurried off to execution. Received within the
rampart, he spent the night among the sentries with much less hope
than confidence; for the consuls with the senate and the city cohorts
had taken possession of the Forum and the Capitol, resolved on
maintaining the public liberty. When he too was summoned to the House
by the tribunes of the commons, to give his advice on the situation,
he sent word that "he was detained by force and compulsion." But the
next day, since the senate was dilatory in putting through its plans
because of the tiresome bickering of those who held divergent views,
while the populace, who stood about the hall, called for one ruler and
expressly named Claudius, he allowed the armed assembly of the
soldiers to swear allegiance to him, and promised each man fifteen
thousand sesterces; being the first of the Caesars who resorted to
bribery to secure the fidelity of the troops." - Seutonius, Lives of
the Twelve Caesars, "Claudius" 10

"The hairy fifth to enslave the State
To enslave the State, though against his will,
Shall be that idiot whom all despised.
He shall have hair in a generous mop.
He shall give Rome water and winter bread
And die at the hand of his wife, no wife,
To the gain of his son, no son" - Sybilline Oracle, Robert Graves, "I,
Claudius" ch. 1

On this day in AD 41, Tiberius Claudius Drusus Nero Germanicus Caesar
was proclaimed imperator, following the murder of his nephew "Caligula".

Valete bene!

Cato





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

Could one of our Latinists please translate this for me?

Veritatem cognoscetis et veritas te liberabit

I have had no luck with the on-line translators :-(

Thanks!

Valete,

C. Popillius Laenas

Salve, et salvete omnes

You will know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

I'm not a latinist, but I recognised the words!

Vale, et valete omnes
Crispus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius" <gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Could one of our Latinists please translate this for me?
>
> Veritatem cognoscetis et veritas te liberabit
>
> I have had no luck with the on-line translators :-(
>
> Thanks!
>
> Valete,
>
> C. Popillius Laenas
>

Thanks!

Laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS" <jbshr1pwa@...> wrote:
>
> Salve, et salvete omnes
>
> You will know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
>
> I'm not a latinist, but I recognised the words!
>
> Vale, et valete omnes
> Crispus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius" <gaiuspopillius@> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> >
> > Could one of our Latinists please translate this for me?
> >
> > Veritatem cognoscetis et veritas te liberabit
> >
> > I have had no luck with the on-line translators :-(
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Valete,
> >
> > C. Popillius Laenas
> >
>

salve,

is anyone going to see the rite when it comes out?

vale bene
 
"Consider your origin, you were not born to live like brutes, but to follow
virtue and knowledge.”
 
                                                                                                                               Dante Alighieri 

 
Ti. Aurelius Trio




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Marcio Crispo C. Popillio Laenati quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Salve, et salvete omnes
>
> You will know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
>
> ATS: Essentially this is correct, but there is one little hitch: the
> first you is plural in the Latin, as marked by the verb ending, and the second
> one is singular, so Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shalt set thee
> free...there is a little problem with this Latin; it¹s not a good translation!
> Either the first verb must be put into the singular or the pronominal object
> in the second clause must be put into the plural: cognosces, or vos.
> Otherwise everyone must know the truth, but only one person will be set
> free... ;-)
>
> I'm not a latinist, but I recognised the words!
>
> ATS: Magistra recommends these Latin courses, and some information in
> your Rudimenta text...
>
> Vale, et valete omnes
> Crispus
>
> Valete!
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Gaius" <gaiuspopillius@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Salvete omnes,
>> >
>> > Could one of our Latinists please translate this for me?
>> >
>> > Veritatem cognoscetis et veritas te liberabit
>> >
>> > I have had no luck with the on-line translators :-(
>> >
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> > Valete,
>> >
>> > C. Popillius Laenas
>> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, et Salvete omnes

I was sort of expecting you to pop in on this one, Magistra. And of course you are correct.

Fortunately English just has "You" nowadays - The King James version has "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free". Plural in both cases.

I suspect the words, from St John, probably meant "all of you", rather than "just one of you". Otherwise it would be an extremely exclusive religion!

Is this another case of those careless monks?

Vale, et valete bene omnes

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Marcio Crispo C. Popillio Laenati quiritibus bonae
> > voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve, et salvete omnes
> >
> > You will know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
> >
> > ATS: Essentially this is correct, but there is one little hitch: the
> > first you is plural in the Latin, as marked by the verb ending, and the second
> > one is singular, so Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shalt set thee
> > free...there is a little problem with this Latin; it¹s not a good translation!
> > Either the first verb must be put into the singular or the pronominal object
> > in the second clause must be put into the plural: cognosces, or vos.
> > Otherwise everyone must know the truth, but only one person will be set
> > free... ;-)
> >
> > I'm not a latinist, but I recognised the words!
> >
> > ATS: Magistra recommends these Latin courses, and some information in
> > your Rudimenta text...
> >
> > Vale, et valete omnes
> > Crispus
> >
> > Valete!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "Gaius" <gaiuspopillius@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Salvete omnes,
> >> >
> >> > Could one of our Latinists please translate this for me?
> >> >
> >> > Veritatem cognoscetis et veritas te liberabit
> >> >
> >> > I have had no luck with the on-line translators :-(
> >> >
> >> > Thanks!
> >> >
> >> > Valete,
> >> >
> >> > C. Popillius Laenas
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Marcio Crispo quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Salve, et Salvete omnes
>
> I was sort of expecting you to pop in on this one, Magistra.
>
> ATS: Funny thing about that... ;-) Had to wait until I finished the
> daily shoveling, however.
>
>
> And of course you are correct.
>
> Fortunately English just has "You" nowadays - The King James version has "And
> ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free". Plural in both
> cases.
>
> I suspect the words, from St John, probably meant "all of you", rather than
> "just one of you".
>
> ATS: Yes. You¹re starting to sound like US Southern dialect, with you
> all, y¹all, and the plural all y¹all (as we have recently been informed during
> our cram course in Southern...). The English second person pronoun collapsed
> fairly recently, and it seems that this sad loss is still felt in certain
> linguistic quarters. I suspect that this phrase was intended to be plural all
> around, but that is not what is written in the Latin version.
>
>
> Otherwise it would be an extremely exclusive religion!
>
> ATS: LOL! Methinks those exist...
>
> Is this another case of those careless monks?
>
> ATS: Probably not. There are errors in copying (which was generally done
> from a text read aloud, not one written and at hand), but I suspect that any
> monk would know THAT much Latin. This might be a mistranslation by an English
> speaker; other languages retain the distinction in the second person pronoun,
> though some keep this as a formal / informal one. I have heard, however, that
> on the net the use of the second person singular (otherwise familiar) is used
> even with strangers among speakers of languages which have this formal /
> informal distinction (French, Spanish, German...).
>
> Vale, et valete bene omnes
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica C. Marcio Crispo C. Popillio Laenati quiritibus
>>> bonae
>>> > > voluntatis S.P.D.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Salve, et salvete omnes
>>> > >
>>> > > You will know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Essentially this is correct, but there is one little hitch:

the

>>> > > first you is plural in the Latin, as marked by the verb ending, and the
>>> second
>>> > > one is singular, so Ye shall know the truth, and the truth shalt set >>>

thee

>>> > > free...there is a little problem with this Latin; it¹s not a good
>>> translation!
>>> > > Either the first verb must be put into the singular or the pronominal
>>> object
>>> > > in the second clause must be put into the plural: cognosces, or vos.
>>> > > Otherwise everyone must know the truth, but only one person will be set
>>> > > free... ;-)
>>> > >
>>> > > I'm not a latinist, but I recognised the words!
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Magistra recommends these Latin courses, and some information

in

>>> > > your Rudimenta text...
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale, et valete omnes
>>> > > Crispus
>>> > >
>>> > > Valete!
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>>> > > "Gaius" <gaiuspopillius@> wrote:
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Salvete omnes,
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Could one of our Latinists please translate this for me?
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Veritatem cognoscetis et veritas te liberabit
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > I have had no luck with the on-line translators :-(
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Thanks!
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Valete,
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > C. Popillius Laenas
>>>>> > >> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>> >
>> >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iulia Magistrae Crispo omnibusque sal,

Speaking of "Southern American English", just a conjecture here but it could simply be "Southern American Latin" (the South likes to make things their own y'hear?) "Veritatem cognoscetis et veritas te liberabit" is the mot-toe of the University of Tennessee. Further here in Tennessee, there is only one Bible recognized (unofficially) and that is the King James Bible, in addition it was probably altered to be directed personally to each student so I can *almost* see their logic by neglecting the plural.
It's a southern thing *laughs* and yes I am just being silly, but we transplanted yankees like to engage in this sort of discourse every now and again;)

"Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos" is what some of the Orders use (Mason, RSCRCN etc.) reflecting the plural "you" and I have a hint by their use of "vos."

"Veritas vos Liberabit" the truth will set you free is probably the more common form of the passage.
Nominative veritas; plural vos; and future active indicative, 3rd conjugation and singular? liberabit - this last word has thrown me, I think it should be plural, no? Nescio. Now I have a Latin headache.
O mi miserum;)

Valete bene

Julia

P.S. This is a chart I found when i first entered rudimenta(sp?) and has been a bit helpful;) and so was my OLD:
http://www.elushae.org/~cislyn/classics/latrev.html

Salve Crispe,

Um ...no, I doubt it, since King James was Protestant, but I suspect that what you see in that passage is a change of changing language. Words like Thee, Thou, (et al) were still used, but falling out of fashion, likewise the separation between plural and singular you was shifting to no separation, but like most things that evolve rather than are "forcibly" (and I don't mean force in the violent sense, necessarily) changed, there is a period of flux. We see this in spelling into the 19th century, in English, at least. Our use of mass communication makes language changes much faster, and more universally accepted faster and easier, as well, but you can still observe the process in such areas as slang, which changes rapidly, but where the old is not necessarily entirely discarded. You can tell someone's generation, (sometimes) by the idioms and slang they use, if they use any, and given enough time, a younger person probably won't understand the term, but it remains until it just fades away and is seen only in period literature.

Vale Bene!
Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato L. Aemilae sal.

It's a pleasure :)

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Lyn" <ldowling@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Cato, and thank you so much for these posts.
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
> L. Aemilia
>
>
>
> _____
>
> From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
> Of Cato
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:46 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] a.d. VIII Kal. Feb.
>
>
>
>
>
> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>
> Hodiernus dies est ante diem VIII Kalendas Februarias; haec dies comitialis
> est.
>
> INDUSTRY IN THE REPUBLIC AND EMPIRE
>
> Latium, the area around Rome, was initially an agricultural region.
> But the early influence of the Etruscans and the Greek colonies in
> Italy had inspired the creation of a local industry. Pottery was
> introduced from Campania and the art of bronze-casting from Etruria.
>
> Rome's conquest of Italy didn't stifle industry but encourage it. It
> may well have been that Roman law and order, as well as the political
> stability provided the reasons for trade to thrive. Also Rome never
> used its authority to insist on goods from the capital be given any
> preference. Its dependent territories didn't buy goods from Rome due
> to force, but because they chose to do so. Gradually, as Rome
> extended its power and empire with conquests, the increasing
> population and demands for luxuries, as well as the construction of
> large public works caused many industries to flourish; but Rome,
> although important as an industrial center, was largely a city which
> consumed goods, rather than producing them. Imports exceeded exports
> by far (with the exception of bronze goods which were exported all
> over the empire).
>
> As the unrivalled metropolis, Rome achieved an absolute lead in in the
> production of luxury goods, particularly in articles of precious
> metals, such as jewelry and engraved cups. Foreign craftsmen who
> migrated to the city, mostly Greeks, created refined masterpieces in
> their workshops. Meanwhile the building trade naturally became far
> more developed in Rome than anywhere else.
>
> Industry though flourished elsewhere. Genoa, Ostia and Ravenna were
> Rome's major harbors, providing her with warships as well as
> benefiting from the rise in shipping trade. Como, Sulmona, Salerno
> and Puteoli were centres of the iron industry which received great
> quantities of iron ore from the minors of Elba. Campania grew rich
> not only on its fertile soil which grew, among other things, some of
> the best wines, but also for its industrial products. Bronzes from
> Capua, terra cotta ware from Puteoli, Cumae and Ischia, glass form
> Cumae, Sorento and Pompeii, liquamen from Pompeii. Apulia produced the
> finest wool. Northern Italy supplied bronze articles from Bergamo,
> bricks from Modena and amphorae from Pola. So, too, did it boast a
> famous woollen industry at Istria, Padua and Parma and dye works at
> Aquileia. Aquileia was further also known for its cloth making and
> glass industry, as well as for its workshops for amber (sucinum) which
> was imported from as far away as the Baltic in northern Europe.
>
> Industry benefited much from the existence of a large, almost
> limitless empire. Technical advances were helped by the unity of the
> empire which much helped the spread of new ideas. But so too, the
> policing of the seas and the construction of the famous Roman roads
> aided trade into the most distant countries. And all the while the
> vast city of Rome and its massive standing army provided vast a demand
> for goods.
>
> The rich eastern provinces sent to Rome rare and exotic goods,
> fashioned in their factories and workshops from materials from yet
> more far flung regions of the world. Silk from China, emeralds from
> Scythia, perfumes from Arabia, glass and papyrus from Egypt (Egypt was
> the oldest glass-producing country if the Mediterranean and hence had
> vast expertise in the matter, producing by far the finest glassware of
> the day). In the western and northern provinces, too, industries were
> greatly developed, entering into competition with Italian producers.
> Spain already in the days of empire should produce some of the finest
> steel, but also provided fine wool and the highest quality liquamen.
> Gaul became famous for its bronze work, shoes, and woollen industry.
> Noricum produced the finest weapons, the Rhine valley the best
> earthenware.
>
> "Having spent the greater part of his life under these and like
> circumstances, he became emperor in his fiftieth year by a remarkable
> freak of fortune. When the assassins of Gaius shut out the crowd under
> pretence that the emperor wished to be alone, Claudius was ousted with
> the rest and withdrew to an apartment called the Hermaeum; and a
> little later, in great terror at the news of the murder, he stole away
> to a balcony hard by and hid among the curtains which hung before the
> door. As he cowered there, a common soldier, who was prowling about
> at random, saw his feet, intending to ask who he was, pulled him out
> and recognized him; and when Claudius fell at his feet in terror, he
> hailed him as emperor. Then he took him to the rest of his comrades,
> who were as yet in a condition of uncertainty and purposeless rage.
> These placed him in a litter, took turns in carrying it, since his own
> bearers had made off, and bore him to the Camp in a state of despair
> and terror, while the throng that met him pitied him, as an innocent
> man who was being hurried off to execution. Received within the
> rampart, he spent the night among the sentries with much less hope
> than confidence; for the consuls with the senate and the city cohorts
> had taken possession of the Forum and the Capitol, resolved on
> maintaining the public liberty. When he too was summoned to the House
> by the tribunes of the commons, to give his advice on the situation,
> he sent word that "he was detained by force and compulsion." But the
> next day, since the senate was dilatory in putting through its plans
> because of the tiresome bickering of those who held divergent views,
> while the populace, who stood about the hall, called for one ruler and
> expressly named Claudius, he allowed the armed assembly of the
> soldiers to swear allegiance to him, and promised each man fifteen
> thousand sesterces; being the first of the Caesars who resorted to
> bribery to secure the fidelity of the troops." - Seutonius, Lives of
> the Twelve Caesars, "Claudius" 10
>
> "The hairy fifth to enslave the State
> To enslave the State, though against his will,
> Shall be that idiot whom all despised.
> He shall have hair in a generous mop.
> He shall give Rome water and winter bread
> And die at the hand of his wife, no wife,
> To the gain of his son, no son" - Sybilline Oracle, Robert Graves, "I,
> Claudius" ch. 1
>
> On this day in AD 41, Tiberius Claudius Drusus Nero Germanicus Caesar
> was proclaimed imperator, following the murder of his nephew "Caligula".
>
> Valete bene!
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
> Magistra Juliae Crispo quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Iulia Magistrae Crispo omnibusque sal,
>
> Speaking of "Southern American English", just a conjecture here but it could
> simply be "Southern American Latin"
>
> ATS: LOL!
>
>
>
> (the South likes to make things their own y'hear?) "Veritatem cognoscetis et
> veritas te liberabit" is the mot-toe of the University of Tennessee.
>
> ATS: Did somebody flunk Latin? We have these personal endings on verbs,
> you see...and your teacher will complain if you mix singulars and plurals. As
> you know, I require my Grammatica students to specify the number in the second
> person...the singular need not be marked, but the (rarer) plural must.
>
>
> Further here in Tennessee, there is only one Bible recognized (unofficially)
> and that is the King James Bible,
>
> ATS: Are they liberal or what?
>
>
> in addition it was probably altered to be directed personally to each student
> so I can *almost* see their logic by neglecting the plural.
> It's a southern thing *laughs* and yes I am just being silly, but we
> transplanted yankees like to engage in this sort of discourse every now and
> again;)
>
> "Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos" is what some of the Orders
> use (Mason, RSCRCN etc.)
>
>
> ATS: What do all of these initials mean? Any relation to the KKK? ;-)
>
> reflecting the plural "you" and I have a hint by their use of "vos."
>
> "Veritas vos Liberabit" the truth will set you free is probably the more
> common form of the passage.
>
> ATS: It¹s definitely the more grammatically correct one.
>
>
> Nominative veritas; plural vos; and future active indicative, 3rd conjugation
> and singular? liberabit - this last word has thrown me, I think it should be
> plural, no?
>
> ATS: No, it¹s singular with veritas, which is a third declension
> nominative singular. Many abstract nouns in Latin are in the third declension
> and end in -tas, -tudo, or -tus. All are feminine endings. Since veritas is
> singular, its verb must also be singular, and in the third person. Your
> English teacher complains when things do not agree with one another. Your
> Latin teacher (or other FL teacher) complains more loudly...
>
> Nescio.
>
> ATS: That was the favorite answer of one of the comparative beginners at
> my Latin immersion in Seattle...one reason why we require at least two years
> of Latin, preferably a rigorous program such as our classes, BEFORE one enters
> immersion or Reggie Foster¹s courses...
>
>
> Now I have a Latin headache.
>
> ATS: Now, now...
>
> O mi miserum;)
>
> ATS: Me miseram (given that you are female, the last I checked). This is
> the accusative of exclamation, not taught in Wheelock...
>
> Valete bene
>
> Julia
>
> Vale, et valete bene.
>
>
> P.S. This is a chart I found when i first entered rudimenta(sp?) and has been
> a bit helpful;) and so was my OLD:
> http://www.elushae.org/~cislyn/classics/latrev.html
>
> Must check this out...gratias!
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve tutti,
I am!

I for one have seen paranormal.
Ti. Marcius Quadra


________________________________
From: jeffery craft <warbuff_4@...>
To: newroman@yahoogroups.com; Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 5:31:50 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] the rite


salve,

is anyone going to see the rite when it comes out?

vale bene

"Consider your origin, you were not born to live like brutes, but to follow
virtue and knowledge.”

Dante Alighieri



Ti. Aurelius Trio

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, et salvete,

I saw the first "Paranormal" (you are talking about the movie right?) and it was the worst movie I have ever seen. Young Marcus talked me into seeing Paranormal 2. I was actually frightened and screamed aloud! A pleasant surprise and there was also comedy afoot. In the row in front of me were a group of Southern Baptist Ladies and they were getting "saved", it was hilarious - a touch of that old time relgion in theater, the scarier it got, the more frightened they became and the funnier they were! The producers utilized all the good old horror tactics for a good scare flik.
I want to see the Rite but might wait until the Eagle comes out and then just hang out in the theater one evening and watch them both.

Vale, et valete,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@...> wrote:
>
> Salve tutti,
> I am!
>
> I for one have seen paranormal.
> Ti. Marcius Quadra
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeffery craft <warbuff_4@...>
> To: newroman@yahoogroups.com; Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 5:31:50 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] the rite
>
>
> salve,
>
> is anyone going to see the rite when it comes out?
>
> vale bene
>
> "Consider your origin, you were not born to live like brutes, but to follow
> virtue and knowledge.”
>
> Dante Alighieri
>
>
>
> Ti. Aurelius Trio
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sorry Julia,
I was talking about real life witnessing of the paranormal in my living room
with objects floating around.

Ti. Marci Quadra


________________________________
From: luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 3:25:31 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: the rite


Salve, et salvete,

I saw the first "Paranormal" (you are talking about the movie right?) and it was
the worst movie I have ever seen. Young Marcus talked me into seeing Paranormal
2. I was actually frightened and screamed aloud! A pleasant surprise and there
was also comedy afoot. In the row in front of me were a group of Southern
Baptist Ladies and they were getting "saved", it was hilarious - a touch of that
old time relgion in theater, the scarier it got, the more frightened they became
and the funnier they were! The producers utilized all the good old horror
tactics for a good scare flik.

I want to see the Rite but might wait until the Eagle comes out and then just
hang out in the theater one evening and watch them both.

Vale, et valete,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@...> wrote:
>
> Salve tutti,
> I am!
>
> I for one have seen paranormal.
> Ti. Marcius Quadra
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: jeffery craft <warbuff_4@...>
> To: newroman@yahoogroups.com; Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 5:31:50 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] the rite
>
>
> salve,
>
> is anyone going to see the rite when it comes out?
>
> vale bene
>
> "Consider your origin, you were not born to live like brutes, but to follow
> virtue and knowledge.”
>
>
>Dante Alighieri
>
>
>
>
> Ti. Aurelius Trio
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Magistra,

This email had me chuckling.

> > ATS: What do all of these initials mean? Any relation to the KKK? ;-)

As for the initials, there is an old saying, in English this time, "if you do not know what they mean then maybe you shouldn't know" or something like that *laughs* and no it has nothing to do with the KKK.

>Your
> > English teacher complains when things do not agree with one another.

I don't need and English teacher, Latin is giving me quite a refresher course.

>Your
> > Latin teacher (or other FL teacher) complains more loudly...

Quid significat "FL Teacher?" Favorite Latin Teacher perhaps? Well then, you are my favorite latin teacher who complains loudly!

> > O mi miserum;)
> >
> > ATS: Me miseram (given that you are female, the last I checked).

*laughs* I was not aware that you ever checked to verify my gender (I am now howling in laughter once again)
However I did make a note of it; one would not want to be thought of as male when she is female, now would one!

> > This is the accusative of exclamation, not taught in Wheelock...

Ok, so I must learn this from the street then?;)

Cura te, vale,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > Magistra Juliae Crispo quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> >
> > Iulia Magistrae Crispo omnibusque sal,
> >
> > Speaking of "Southern American English", just a conjecture here but it could
> > simply be "Southern American Latin"
> >
> > ATS: LOL!
> >
> >
> >
> > (the South likes to make things their own y'hear?) "Veritatem cognoscetis et
> > veritas te liberabit" is the mot-toe of the University of Tennessee.
> >
> > ATS: Did somebody flunk Latin? We have these personal endings on verbs,
> > you see...and your teacher will complain if you mix singulars and plurals. As
> > you know, I require my Grammatica students to specify the number in the second
> > person...the singular need not be marked, but the (rarer) plural must.
> >
> >
> > Further here in Tennessee, there is only one Bible recognized (unofficially)
> > and that is the King James Bible,
> >
> > ATS: Are they liberal or what?
> >
> >
> > in addition it was probably altered to be directed personally to each student
> > so I can *almost* see their logic by neglecting the plural.
> > It's a southern thing *laughs* and yes I am just being silly, but we
> > transplanted yankees like to engage in this sort of discourse every now and
> > again;)
> >
> > "Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos" is what some of the Orders
> > use (Mason, RSCRCN etc.)
> >
> >
> > ATS: What do all of these initials mean? Any relation to the KKK? ;-)
> >
> > reflecting the plural "you" and I have a hint by their use of "vos."
> >
> > "Veritas vos Liberabit" the truth will set you free is probably the more
> > common form of the passage.
> >
> > ATS: It¹s definitely the more grammatically correct one.
> >
> >
> > Nominative veritas; plural vos; and future active indicative, 3rd conjugation
> > and singular? liberabit - this last word has thrown me, I think it should be
> > plural, no?
> >
> > ATS: No, it¹s singular with veritas, which is a third declension
> > nominative singular. Many abstract nouns in Latin are in the third declension
> > and end in -tas, -tudo, or -tus. All are feminine endings. Since veritas is
> > singular, its verb must also be singular, and in the third person. Your
> > English teacher complains when things do not agree with one another. Your
> > Latin teacher (or other FL teacher) complains more loudly...
> >
> > Nescio.
> >
> > ATS: That was the favorite answer of one of the comparative beginners at
> > my Latin immersion in Seattle...one reason why we require at least two years
> > of Latin, preferably a rigorous program such as our classes, BEFORE one enters
> > immersion or Reggie Foster¹s courses...
> >
> >
> > Now I have a Latin headache.
> >
> > ATS: Now, now...
> >
> > O mi miserum;)
> >
> > ATS: Me miseram (given that you are female, the last I checked). This is
> > the accusative of exclamation, not taught in Wheelock...
> >
> > Valete bene
> >
> > Julia
> >
> > Vale, et valete bene.
> >
> >
> > P.S. This is a chart I found when i first entered rudimenta(sp?) and has been
> > a bit helpful;) and so was my OLD:
> > http://www.elushae.org/~cislyn/classics/latrev.html
> >
> > Must check this out...gratias!
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Caeca Scholasticae Aquilae omnibusque Sal,

Um ...Julia ...FL= Foreign Language, I suspect. Favorite Latin Teacher might be FLT, though. Wait ...didn't I *leave* Government employment partly to get away from alphabet soup? Of course, the Romans *loved* it, especially in their inscriptions, but then, if I was chiseling lots of words (that have trimmings that make them *really* long), I probably would, too.

Valete Bene,
Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Marci,

Well then that is a different situation altogether.
What kind of phenomena are you experiencing?

Vale,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry Julia,
> I was talking about real life witnessing of the paranormal in my living room
> with objects floating around.
>
> Ti. Marci Quadra
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 3:25:31 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: the rite
>
>
> Salve, et salvete,
>
> I saw the first "Paranormal" (you are talking about the movie right?) and it was
> the worst movie I have ever seen. Young Marcus talked me into seeing Paranormal
> 2. I was actually frightened and screamed aloud! A pleasant surprise and there
> was also comedy afoot. In the row in front of me were a group of Southern
> Baptist Ladies and they were getting "saved", it was hilarious - a touch of that
> old time relgion in theater, the scarier it got, the more frightened they became
> and the funnier they were! The producers utilized all the good old horror
> tactics for a good scare flik.
>
> I want to see the Rite but might wait until the Eagle comes out and then just
> hang out in the theater one evening and watch them both.
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> Julia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve tutti,
> > I am!
> >
> > I for one have seen paranormal.
> > Ti. Marcius Quadra
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: jeffery craft <warbuff_4@>
> > To: newroman@yahoogroups.com; Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 5:31:50 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] the rite
> >
> >
> > salve,
> >
> > is anyone going to see the rite when it comes out?
> >
> > vale bene
> >
> > "Consider your origin, you were not born to live like brutes, but to follow
> > virtue and knowledge.”
> >
> >
> >Dante Alighieri
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ti. Aurelius Trio
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Ave Caeca (I am behaving tonight)

Well... i suppose "FL teacher" could be Foreign Language Teacher, but my explanation is more fun - so there Missy! *laughs* I like alphabet soup as well, haven't had any in a coon's age. "That's good eatin'!", the soup not the coon.... It is times like this when I realize I have been infected with southern.
Speaking of Romans. I found out earlier tonight that I share a birthday with Julius Caesar! Well with Ciaran Hinds, the fellow who played him in the series "Rome." He also happened to play Abelforth Dumbledore in Harry Potter and also plays Father Xavier in "The Rite".

Cura ut valeas y'all (singular)

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> Caeca Scholasticae Aquilae omnibusque Sal,
>
> Um ...Julia ...FL= Foreign Language, I suspect. Favorite Latin Teacher might be FLT, though. Wait ...didn't I *leave* Government employment partly to get away from alphabet soup? Of course, the Romans *loved* it, especially in their inscriptions, but then, if I was chiseling lots of words (that have trimmings that make them *really* long), I probably would, too.
>
> Valete Bene,
> Caeca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

C. Petronius omnibus s.p.d.,

> Veritatem cognoscetis et veritas te liberabit
> You will know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

It is very strange that English language is unable to express the difference between "you" as plural meaning (cognoscetis) and "you" (te)as singular meaning. You wrote both "you"...

I wonder how a language as imprecise as English can have became universal.:o)

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. VII Kalendas Februarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

Caro Julia,
Until I find a producer to get my story to book and screen, I'll have to limit
the description of the objects floating in the room to the objects interacted
with each other and there were more than one person in the room.

This is why I believe in higher powers, whether they are called Jesus Christ,
Apollo, Venus, or Mars.

Ti. Marci Quadra


________________________________
From: luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 3:51:32 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Rite


Salve Marci,

Well then that is a different situation altogether.
What kind of phenomena are you experiencing?

Vale,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@...> wrote:
>
> Sorry Julia,
> I was talking about real life witnessing of the paranormal in my living room
> with objects floating around.
>
> Ti. Marci Quadra
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 3:25:31 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: the rite
>
>
> Salve, et salvete,
>
> I saw the first "Paranormal" (you are talking about the movie right?) and it
>was
>
> the worst movie I have ever seen. Young Marcus talked me into seeing Paranormal
>
> 2. I was actually frightened and screamed aloud! A pleasant surprise and there

> was also comedy afoot. In the row in front of me were a group of Southern
> Baptist Ladies and they were getting "saved", it was hilarious - a touch of
>that
>
> old time relgion in theater, the scarier it got, the more frightened they
>became
>
> and the funnier they were! The producers utilized all the good old horror
> tactics for a good scare flik.
>
> I want to see the Rite but might wait until the Eagle comes out and then just
> hang out in the theater one evening and watch them both.
>
> Vale, et valete,
>
> Julia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve tutti,
> > I am!
> >
> > I for one have seen paranormal.
> > Ti. Marcius Quadra
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: jeffery craft <warbuff_4@>
> > To: newroman@yahoogroups.com; Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Wed, January 26, 2011 5:31:50 AM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] the rite
> >
> >
> > salve,
> >
> > is anyone going to see the rite when it comes out?
> >
> > vale bene
> >
> > "Consider your origin, you were not born to live like brutes, but to follow
> > virtue and knowledge.”
> >
> >
> >Dante Alighieri
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Ti. Aurelius Trio
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE!

--- On Wed, 1/26/11, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:



I wonder how a language as imprecise as English can have became universal.:o)>>>
 

Exactly this is the reason for universality. The world is not composed of professional linguists but from people who want to interact with other people in simple way. Well, English language allows that.
VALE,
Sabinus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Sabino sal.

Well it seems quite simple to me :) Trouble is it all got a bit messed up after 1776 <cough>.

Optime vale

--- On Tue, 1/25/11, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:

> From: iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin Help
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, January 25, 2011, 11:57 PM
> SALVE!
>
> --- On Wed, 1/26/11, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> I wonder how a language as imprecise as English can have
> became universal.:o)>>>
>  
>
> Exactly this is the reason for universality. The world is
> not composed of professional linguists but from people who
> want to interact with other people in simple way. Well,
> English language allows that.
> VALE,
> Sabinus
>
>
>      
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>

>
> Salve, Julia, et salvete, quirites bonae voluntatis.
>
>
>
> Salve Magistra,
>
> This email had me chuckling.
>
>>> > > ATS: What do all of these initials mean? Any relation to the KKK?

;-)

>
> As for the initials, there is an old saying, in English this time, "if you do
> not know what they mean then maybe you shouldn't know" or something like that
> *laughs* and no it has nothing to do with the KKK.
>
> ATS2: Well, you know I was teasing about that...just another of those
> weird Southern things, you know, but that one came up north and spurred some
> to cross-burning on my great-grandmother¹s lawn. Wrong religion, you see.
>
>> >Your
>>> > > English teacher complains when things do not agree with one another.
>
> I don't need and English teacher, Latin is giving me quite a refresher course.
>
> ATS2: LOL! Latin WILL do that! Who needs English teachers when Latin is
> so much more precise? And produces better marks on the SAT?
>
>> >Your
>>> > > Latin teacher (or other FL teacher) complains more loudly...
>
> Quid significat "FL Teacher?" Favorite Latin Teacher perhaps? Well then, you
> are my favorite latin teacher who complains loudly!
>
> ATS2: Foreign language teacher, as Caeca pointed out. I¹m glad that I¹m
> your favorite Latin teacher, even complaining loudly.
>
>>> > > O mi miserum;)
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Me miseram (given that you are female, the last I checked).
>
> *laughs* I was not aware that you ever checked to verify my gender (I am now
> howling in laughter once again)
>
> ATS2: No need; it¹s obvious. ;-))) So is mine to most; no one will ever
> confuse me with a guy...but in my youth, when men wore long hair and women
> were just starting to wear pants on a regular basis, a group of idiots asked
> me what sex I was. Poor dears have such problems; in psych class we learned
> that that sort of thing is established around age four, not the teens. I
> guess they could not see that I have this prominent chest apparatus...
>
>
> However I did make a note of it; one would not want to be thought of as male
> when she is female, now would one!
>
> ATS2: Very definitely not...though I think some prefer to confuse others.
> I have encountered a couple of individuals whose gender could not be
> determined by outward appearance...
>
>
>>> > > This is the accusative of exclamation, not taught in Wheelock...
> Ok, so I must learn this from the street then?;)
>
> ATS2: Well, a lot of Latin has to be learnt on the street... ;-)
> However, Wheelock just covers the very basics; he does not go into the more
> detailed grammar found in Jenney or some of the other older texts, and
> moreover does not teach the standard Latin I vocabulary leading up to
> excursions in the Bellum Gallicum. Thus if we ever add a course in Caesar, we
> will have to teach the vocabulary first...
>
> Cura te, vale,
>
> Julia
>
> Vale, et valete!
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > Magistra Juliae Crispo quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Iulia Magistrae Crispo omnibusque sal,
>>> > >
>>> > > Speaking of "Southern American English", just a conjecture here but it
>>> could
>>> > > simply be "Southern American Latin"
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: LOL!
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > (the South likes to make things their own y'hear?) "Veritatem
>>> cognoscetis et
>>> > > veritas te liberabit" is the mot-toe of the University of Tennessee.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Did somebody flunk Latin? We have these personal endings on
>>> verbs,
>>> > > you see...and your teacher will complain if you mix singulars and
>>> plurals. As
>>> > > you know, I require my Grammatica students to specify the number in the
>>> second
>>> > > person...the singular need not be marked, but the (rarer) plural must.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Further here in Tennessee, there is only one Bible recognized
>>> (unofficially)
>>> > > and that is the King James Bible,
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Are they liberal or what?
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > in addition it was probably altered to be directed personally to each
>>> student
>>> > > so I can *almost* see their logic by neglecting the plural.
>>> > > It's a southern thing *laughs* and yes I am just being silly, but we
>>> > > transplanted yankees like to engage in this sort of discourse every now

and

>>> > > again;)
>>> > >
>>> > > "Et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos" is what some of the
>>> Orders
>>> > > use (Mason, RSCRCN etc.)
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: What do all of these initials mean? Any relation to the KKK?

;-)

>>> > >
>>> > > reflecting the plural "you" and I have a hint by their use of "vos."
>>> > >
>>> > > "Veritas vos Liberabit" the truth will set you free is probably the more
>>> > > common form of the passage.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: It¹s definitely the more grammatically correct one.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Nominative veritas; plural vos; and future active indicative, 3rd
>>> conjugation
>>> > > and singular? liberabit - this last word has thrown me, I think it
>>> should be
>>> > > plural, no?
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: No, it¹s singular with veritas, which is a third declension
>>> > > nominative singular. Many abstract nouns in Latin are in the third
>>> declension
>>> > > and end in -tas, -tudo, or -tus. All are feminine endings. Since
>>> veritas is
>>> > > singular, its verb must also be singular, and in the third person. Your
>>> > > English teacher complains when things do not agree with one another.
>>> Your
>>> > > Latin teacher (or other FL teacher) complains more loudly...
>>> > >
>>> > > Nescio.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: That was the favorite answer of one of the comparative
>>> beginners at
>>> > > my Latin immersion in Seattle...one reason why we require at least two
>>> years
>>> > > of Latin, preferably a rigorous program such as our classes, BEFORE one
>>> enters
>>> > > immersion or Reggie Foster¹s courses...
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Now I have a Latin headache.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Now, now...
>>> > >
>>> > > O mi miserum;)
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Me miseram (given that you are female, the last I checked).
>>> This is
>>> > > the accusative of exclamation, not taught in Wheelock...
>>> > >
>>> > > Valete bene
>>> > >
>>> > > Julia
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale, et valete bene.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > P.S. This is a chart I found when i first entered rudimenta(sp?) and has
>>> been
>>> > > a bit helpful;) and so was my OLD:
>>> > > http://www.elushae.org/~cislyn/classics/latrev.html
>>> > >
>>> > > Must check this out...gratias!
>>> > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Scholastica Petronio quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

> C. Petronius omnibus s.p.d.,
>
>> Veritatem cognoscetis et veritas te liberabit
>> You will know the truth and the truth shall set you free.
>
> It is very strange that English language is unable to express the difference
> between "you" as plural meaning (cognoscetis) and "you" (te)as singular
> meaning. You wrote both "you"...

We have little choice. The two second person pronouns merged (or as
linguists say, collapsed) a couple or three centuries ago. They survive in
prayers, but most people do not know the difference between thee and thou
and thy and thine, to say nothing of ye. 'Your' survives, so that is
understood.

We cannot tutoyer in English; it's a very democratic language.

>
> I wonder how a language as imprecise as English can have became universal.:o)

It's because it is very immodest; it shucked almost all of its inherited
Germanic grammar, and runs around minus its grammatical clothing. It
therefore can both borrow and lend words as is, and since the morphology is
all but nonexistent, it's easy to learn the basics. As I tell my Latin
students, Latin is very modest; it never goes out in public without at least
a minimum of grammatical clothing. French may be even more so, blessed with
two literary tenses, conditional mode as well as subjunctive mode, and
umpteen principal parts...plus there are lots of letters one has to write,
but which are never pronounced. ;-))))) (jocor...)

>
> Optime valete.

Optime vale et valete.

>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. VII Kalendas Februarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
>
>

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VII Kalendas Februarius; haec dies comitialis est.


"Numa, upon taking over the rule, did not disturb the individual
hearths of the curiae, but erected one common to them all in the space
between the Capitoline hill and the Palatine (for these hills had
already been united by a single wall into one city, and the Forum, in
which the temple is built, lies between them), and he enacted, in
accordance with the ancestral custom of the Latins, that the guarding
of the holy things should be committed to virgins. There is some
doubt, however, what it is that is kept in this temple and for what
reason the care of it has been assigned to virgins, some affirming
that nothing is preserved there but the fire, which is visible to
everybody. And they very reasonably argue that the custody of the fire
was committed to virgins, rather than to men, because fire in
incorrupt and a virgin is undefiled, and the most chaste of mortal
things must be agreeable to the purest of those that are divine. And
they regard the fire as consecrated to Vesta because that goddess,
being the earthLink to the editor's note at the bottom of this page
and occupying the central place in the universe, kindles the celestial
fires from herself. But there are some who say that besides the fire
there are some holy things in the temple of the goddess that may not
be revealed to the public, of which only the pontiffs and the virgins
have knowledge. As a strong confirmation of this story they cite
what happened at the burning of the temple during the First Punic War
between the Romans and the Carthaginians over Sicily. For when the
temple caught fire and the virgins fled from the flames, one of the
pontiffs, Lucius Caecilius, called Metellus, a man of consular rank,
the same who exhibited a hundred and thirty-eight elephants in the
memorable triumph which he celebrated for his defeat of the
Carthaginians in Sicily, neglecting his own safety for the sake of the
public good, ventured to force his way into the burning structure,
and, snatching up the holy things which the virgins had abandoned,
saved them from the fire; for which he received the honours from the
State, as the inscription upon his statue on the Capitol testifies.
Taking this incident, then, as an admitted fact, they add some
conjectures of their own. Thus, some affirm that the objects preserved
here are a part of those holy things which were once in Samothrace;
that Dardanus removed them out of that island into the city which he
himself had built, and that Aeneas, when he fled from the Troad,
brought them along with the other holy things into Italy. But others
declare that it is the Palladium that fell from Heaven, the same that
was in the possession of the people of Ilium; for they hold that
Aeneas, being well acquainted with it, brought it into Italy, whereas
the Achaeans stole away the copy — an incident about which many
stories have been related both by poets and by historians. section
6For my part, I find from very many evidences that there are indeed
some holy things, unknown to the public, kept by the virgins, and not
the fire alone; but what they are I do not think should be inquired
into too curiously, either by me of by anyone else who wishes to
observe the reverence due to the gods." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus,
"Roman Antiquities" 2.66

EARLY ROME

"Fourteen miles from the mouth of the Tiber, the monotonous level of the plain through which the river flows is broken by a cluster of hills. The seven hills of historic Rome were the Aventine, Capitoline, Coelian, Esquiline (the highest, 218 feet), Palatine, Quirinal, and Viminal. The Janiculum was on the other side of the Tiber, and was held by the early Romans as a stronghold against the Etruscans. It was connected with Rome by a wooden bridge (Pons Sublicius). The hills rose to a considerable height, around one of which, the PALATINE, first settled a tribe of Latins called RAMNES, a name gradually changed to ROMANS.

When this settlement was formed is not known. Tradition says in 753 BC. It may have been much earlier. These first settlers of Rome were possibly a colony from Alba. In the early stages of their history they united themselves with a Sabine colony that had settled north of them on the QUIRINAL HILL. The name of TITIES was given to this new tribe. A third tribe, named LUCERES, composed, possibly, of conquered Latins, was afterwards added and settled upon the COELIAN HILL.

All early communities, to which the Romans were no exception, were composed of several groups of FAMILIES. The Romans called these groups GENTES, and a single group was called a GENS. All the members of a gens were descended from a common ancestor, after whom the gens received its name.

The head of each family was called PATER FAMILIAS, and he had absolute authority (called patria potestas) over his household, even in the matter of life and death.

The Roman government at first was conducted by these Fathers of the families, with a KING, elected from their own number, and holding office for life. His duties were to command the army, to perform certain sacrifices (as high priest), and to preside over the assembly of the Fathers of the families, which was called the SENATE, i. e. an assembly of old men (senex).

This body was probably originally composed of all the Fathers of the families, but in historical times it was limited to THREE HUNDRED members, holding life office, and appointed during the regal period by the king. Later the appointment was made by the Consuls, still later by the Censors, and for nearly one hundred years before Christ all persons who had held certain offices were thereby vested with the right of seats in the Senate. Hence, during this later period, the number of Senators was greatly in excess of three hundred. The Senators, when addressed, were called PATRES, or "Fathers," for they were Fathers of the families.

The Romans, as we saw above, were divided at first into three tribes, Ramnes, Tities, and Luceres Each tribe was subdivided into ten districts called CURIAE, and each curia into ten clans called GENTES (3 tribes, 30 curiae, and 300 gentes). Every Roman citizen, therefore, belonged to a particular family, at the head of which was a paterfamilias; every family belonged to a particular gens, named after a common ancestor; every gens belonged to a particular curia; and every curia to a particular tribe.

We have learned that in the early government of Rome there was a king, and a senate that advised the king. Besides this, there was an assembly composed of all Roman citizens who could bear arms. We must remember that at this time no one was a Roman citizen who did not belong to some family. All other residents were either slaves or had no political rights, i.e. had no voice in the government. This assembly of Roman citizens met, from time to time, in an enclosed space called the COMITIUM, which means a place of gathering or coming together. This was between the Palatine and Quirinal hills near the FORUM, or market-place. This assembly itself was called the COMITIA CURIATA, i.e. an assembly composed of the 30 curiae. This body alone had the power of changing the existing laws; of declaring war or peace; and of confirming the election of kings made by the senate. The voting in this assembly was taken by each curia, and the majority of the curiae decided any question." - Ancient Rome from the Earliest Times", Robert F. Pennell (1890)

Valete bene!

Cato

English became widespread for several reasons, but "ease" wasn't one
of them. English is considered a difficult language to learn,
precisely because of the lack of rules or cosistency: Each of those
exceptions has to be memorized, you see.

No, the dominance of English begins with the English Empire, which
covered a quarter of the globe and poked it's nose into just about
everything. There was also a small American Empire during the
Colonial Era, which further helped to spread English.

In both cases, there followed business interests and missionary
activity. If you didn't pick up English for political purposes, then
perhaps you did for business or religious reasons.

Then came Culture. Remember that the Colonial Era was only ended after
WWII. By that time English influence included cinemas showing English
language films, music halls, radio stations and everything else - in
English, of course. TV often only came after Independence, but was
usually introduced by an Emglish speaking ebtrpreneur there to serve
the English speaking portion of the former colony.

During WWII much of the world relied on British or American weapons
and manufactured goods.

After WWII the US had the only undamaged industrial base: All who
wanted to rebuild or modernize needed to know English.

Up to modern times it's been Hollywood and the music industry leading
the spread of English, and maintaining it where it had already been
spread, which is just as important: If a language isn't used, it is
lost.

Now in modern times it is yhe Internet. An American invention, it was
meant to link Universities for research - in English, mainly.
Then came it's non-Academic spread, into what we know today, and it's
spreading English worldwide! Usually anything new comes out in
English, and then translations into other languages follows, so to
stay current you need English.

The same is often true in medical and scientific reearch: To stay on
the cutting edge you need to read English, so you can read the latest
research as it is publshed.

I've had many immigrant friends over the years, and they all report
that English is fiendishly difficult to learn! However, it's utility
is unmatched.

- S E M Troianus

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 26, 2011, at 1:57 AM, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...>
wrote:

> SALVE!
>
> --- On Wed, 1/26/11, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> I wonder how a language as imprecise as English can have became
> universal.:o)>>>
>
>
> Exactly this is the reason for universality. The world is not
> composed of professional linguists but from people who want to
> interact with other people in simple way. Well, English language
> allows that.
> VALE,
> Sabinus
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE TROIANE!
 
Thank you for information.
 
VALE BENE,
Sabinus

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--- On Wed, 1/26/11, Delphicapollo <delphicapollo@...> wrote:


From: Delphicapollo <delphicapollo@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Latin Help
To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, January 26, 2011, 6:28 PM


 



English became widespread for several reasons, but "ease" wasn't one
of them. English is considered a difficult language to learn,
precisely because of the lack of rules or cosistency: Each of those
exceptions has to be memorized, you see.

No, the dominance of English begins with the English Empire, which
covered a quarter of the globe and poked it's nose into just about
everything. There was also a small American Empire during the
Colonial Era, which further helped to spread English.

In both cases, there followed business interests and missionary
activity. If you didn't pick up English for political purposes, then
perhaps you did for business or religious reasons.

Then came Culture. Remember that the Colonial Era was only ended after
WWII. By that time English influence included cinemas showing English
language films, music halls, radio stations and everything else - in
English, of course. TV often only came after Independence, but was
usually introduced by an Emglish speaking ebtrpreneur there to serve
the English speaking portion of the former colony.

During WWII much of the world relied on British or American weapons
and manufactured goods.

After WWII the US had the only undamaged industrial base: All who
wanted to rebuild or modernize needed to know English.

Up to modern times it's been Hollywood and the music industry leading
the spread of English, and maintaining it where it had already been
spread, which is just as important: If a language isn't used, it is
lost.

Now in modern times it is yhe Internet. An American invention, it was
meant to link Universities for research - in English, mainly.
Then came it's non-Academic spread, into what we know today, and it's
spreading English worldwide! Usually anything new comes out in
English, and then translations into other languages follows, so to
stay current you need English.

The same is often true in medical and scientific reearch: To stay on
the cutting edge you need to read English, so you can read the latest
research as it is publshed.

I've had many immigrant friends over the years, and they all report
that English is fiendishly difficult to learn! However, it's utility
is unmatched.

- S E M Troianus

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 26, 2011, at 1:57 AM, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...>
wrote:

> SALVE!
>
> --- On Wed, 1/26/11, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> I wonder how a language as imprecise as English can have became
> universal.:o)>>>
>
>
> Exactly this is the reason for universality. The world is not
> composed of professional linguists but from people who want to
> interact with other people in simple way. Well, English language
> allows that.
> VALE,
> Sabinus
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

In keeping with this thread, I'd like to offer a three-part essay on the development and spread of the Latin language.

"How the armies of Rome mastered the nations of the world is known to every reader of history, but the story of the conquest by Latin of the languages of the world is vague in the minds of most of us. If we should ask ourselves how it came about, we should probably think of the world-wide supremacy of Latin as a natural result of the world-wide supremacy of the Roman legions or of Roman law. But in making this assumption we should be shutting our eyes to the history of our own times. A conquered people does not necessarily accept, perhaps it has not commonly accepted, the tongue of its master. In his 'Ancient and Modern Imperialism' Lord Cromer states that in India only one hundred people in every ten thousand can read and write English, and this condition exists after an occupation of one hundred and fifty years or more. He adds: 'There does not appear the least prospect of French supplanting Arabic in Algeria.' In comparing the results of ancient and modern methods perhaps he should have taken into account the fact that India and Algeria have literatures of their own, which most of the outlying peoples subdued by Rome did not have, and these literatures may have strengthened the resistance which the tongue of the conquered people has offered to that of the conqueror, but, even when allowance is made for this fact, the difference in resultant conditions is surprising. From its narrow confines, within a little district on the banks of the Tiber, covering, at the close of the fifth century B.C., less than a hundred square miles, Latin spread through Italy and the islands of the Mediterranean, through France, Spain, England, northern Africa, and the Danubian provinces, triumphing over all the other tongues of those regions more completely than Roman arms triumphed over the peoples using them.

In tracing the story we must keep in our mind's eye the linguistic geography of Italy, just as we must remember the political geography of the peninsula in following Rome's territorial expansion. Let us think at the outset, then, of a little strip of flat country on the Tiber, dotted here and there with hills crowned with villages. Such hill towns were Rome, Tusculum, and Praeneste, for instance. Each of them was the stronghold and market-place of the country immediately about it, and therefore had a life of its own, so that although Latin was spoken in all of them it varied from one to the other. This is shown clearly enough by the inscriptions which have been found on the sites of these ancient towns, and as late as the close of the third century before our era, Plautus pokes fun in his comedies at the provincialism of Praeneste.

The towns which we have mentioned were only a few miles from Rome. Beyond them, and occupying central Italy and a large part of southern Italy, were people who spoke Oscan and the other Italic dialects, which were related to Latin, and yet quite distinct from it. In the seaports of the south Greek was spoken, while the Messapians and Iapygians occupied Calabria. To the north of Rome were the mysterious Etruscans and the almost equally puzzling Venetians and Ligurians. When we follow the Roman legions across the Alps into Switzerland, France, England, Spain, and Africa, we enter a jungle, as it were, of languages and dialects. A mere reading of the list of tongues with which Latin was brought into contact, if such a list could be drawn up, would bring weariness to the flesh. In the part of Gaul conquered by Caesar, for instance, he tells us that there were three independent languages, and sixty distinct states, whose peoples doubtless differed from one another in their speech. If we look at a map of the Roman world under Augustus, with the Atlantic to bound it on the west, the Euphrates on the east, the desert of Sahara on the south, and the Rhine and Danube on the north, and recall the fact that the linguistic conditions which Caesar found in Gaul in 58 B.C. were typical of what confronted Latin in a great many of the western, southern, and northern provinces, the fact that Latin subdued all these different tongues, and became the every-day speech of these different peoples, will be recognized as one of the marvels of history. In fact, so firmly did it establish itself, that it withstood the assaults of the invading Gothic, Lombardic, Frankish, and Burgundian, and has continued to hold to our own day a very large part of the territory which it acquired some two thousand years ago.

That Latin was the common speech of the western world is attested not only by the fact that the languages of France, Spain, Roumania, and the other Romance countries descend from it, but it is also clearly shown by the thousands of Latin inscriptions composed by freeman and freedman, by carpenter, baker, and soldier, which we find all over the Roman world.

How did this extraordinary result come about? It was not the conquest of the world by the common language of Italy, because in Italy in early days at least nine different languages were spoken, but its subjugation by the tongue spoken in the city of Rome. The traditional narrative of Rome, as Livy and others relate it, tells us of a struggle with the neighboring Latin hill towns in the early days of the Republic, and the ultimate formation of an alliance between them and Rome. The favorable position of the city on the Tiber for trade and defence gave it a great advantage over its rivals, and it soon became the commercial and political centre of the neighboring territory. The most important of these villages, Tusculum, Præneste, and Lanuvium, were not more than twenty miles distant, and the people in them must have come constantly to Rome to attend the markets, and in later days to vote, to hear political speeches, and to listen to plays in the theatre. Some of them probably heard the jests at the expense of their dialectal peculiarities which Plautus introduced into his comedies.

The younger generations became ashamed of their provincialisms; they imitated the Latin spoken in the metropolis, and by the second century of our era, when the Latin grammarians have occasion to cite dialectal peculiarities from Latium outside Rome, they quote at second-hand from Varro of the first century B.C., either because they will not take the trouble to use their own ears or because the differences which were noted in earlier days had ceased to exist. The first stage in the conquest of the world by the Latin of Rome comes to an end, then, with the extension of that form of speech throughout Latium.

Beyond the limits of Latium it came into contact with Oscan and the other Italic dialects, which were related to Latin, but of course were much farther removed from it than the Latin of Tusculum or Lanuvium had been, so that the adoption of Latin was not so simple a matter as the acceptance of Roman Latin by the villages of Latium near Rome had been.

The conflict which went on between Latin and its Italic kinsmen is revealed to us now and then by a Latin inscription, into which Oscan or Umbrian forms have crept. The struggle had come to an end by the beginning of our era. A few Oscan inscriptions are found scratched on the walls of Pompeii after the first earthquake, in 63 A.D., but they are late survivals, and no Umbrian inscriptions are known of a date subsequent to the first century B.C.

The Social War of 90-88 B.C., between Rome and the Italians, was a turning-point in the struggle between Latin and the Italic dialects, because it marks a change in the political treatment of Rome's dependencies in Italy. Up to this time she had followed the policy of isolating all her Italian conquered communities from one another. She was anxious to prevent them from conspiring against her. Thus, with this object in view, she made differences in the rights and privileges granted to neighboring communities, in order that, not being subject to the same limitations, and therefore not having the same grievances, they might not have a common basis for joint action against her. It would naturally be a part of that policy to allow or to encourage the retention by the several communities of their own dialects. The common use of Latin would have enabled them to combine against her with greater ease. With the conclusion of the Social War this policy gave way before the new conception of political unity for the people of Italian stock, and with political unity came the introduction of Latin as the common tongue in all official transactions of a local as well as of a federal character.

The immediate results of the war, and the policy which Rome carried out at its close of sending out colonies and building roads in Italy, contributed still more to the larger use of Latin throughout the central and southern parts of the peninsula. Samnium, Lucania, and the territory of the Bruttii suffered severely from depopulation; many colonies were sent into all these districts, so that, although the old dialects must have persisted for a time in some of the mountain towns to the north of Rome, the years following the conclusion of the Social War mark the rapid disappearance of them and the substitution of Latin in their place. Campania took little part in the war, and was therefore left untouched. This fact accounts probably for the occurrence of a few Oscan inscriptions on the walls of Pompeii as late as 63 A.D.

We need not follow here the story of the subjugation of the Greek seaports in southern Italy and of the peoples to the north who spoke non-Italic languages. In all these cases Latin was brought into conflict with languages not related to itself, and the situation contains slightly different elements from those which present themselves in the struggle between Latin and the Italic dialects. The latter were nearly enough related to Latin to furnish some support for the theory that Latin was modified by contact with them, and this theory has found advocates,[4] but there is no sufficient reason for believing that it was materially influenced. An interesting illustration of the influence of Greek on the Latin of every-day life is furnished by the realistic novel which Petronius wrote in the middle of the first century of our era. The characters in his story are Greeks, and the language which they speak is Latin, but they introduce into it a great many Greek words, and now and then a Greek idiom or construction." - Frank Frost Abbott, The Common People of Ancient Rome (1911)

Valete,

Cato

Caecilio s.d.

You will find below the withdrawal of the censorial nota placed upon your head.

Both censors are convinced that you will show the same dignified behavior that was yours during these last months.


On behalf of both censors,
P. Memmius Albucius
censor

--------------------------------------

Censores Iulius and Memmius,







In view of the nota issued pridie idus Quint. 2763 auc by censors Fabius Buteo and Iulius,

Considering that, in consideration of both the committed offence and the good behavior of Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus Pius since, along with the efforts done by him to contribute to the defence of Nova Roma institutions and to its public services,

Jointly decide :

Article 2

The nota issued pridie idus Quint. 2763 auc by censors Fabius Buteo and Iulius is hereby repealed.


Article 2

Every novaroman public officer and her/his department must, as far as they are concerned, enforce the present edict, which will be published in the Tabularium Novae Romae and in Nova Roma relevant internet 'discussion' lists, as well as notified to Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus Pius.


Edictum a.d. VI Kal. Feb. MMDCCLXIV a.u.c. (27th January 2011 c.c.) P. Ullerius C. Equitius coss.

-----------------------------------------------nota pridie idus Quint. 2763-----------------------------------------------------------




SALVETE!

There are moments when Nova Roma, as the modern restoration of the ancient Roman Republic society, following the principles of ancient Rome culture, civilization and values in the way they are described in the preamble of our Constitution and nova roman laws, must pay attention to it public morality.

Public morality represents one of the censors' duties guaranteed through mos maiorum and Nova Roman Constitution. The term itself includes many interpretations but in first line is related to moral and ethical values of a society, community or group and is applied to public life and to conduct in public places.

It is expected as Nova Roman citizens to understand the importance of Roman values and to promote them inside our community through the personal example, in order to create a basis for what we consider as our own moral and ethical standards and more than that, our own moral code in connection with specific Roman culture, civilization and religion we follow.

Without that, personal and public virtues as dignitas, gravitas, honestas, pietas, veritas, aequitas and nobilitas will remain only empty words.
Without that, Nova Roma, will not succeed in it mission to recreate the best of ancient Rome.

To public characterize a member of our community with words as: "worthless pissant who would be better serving as a mop for the floors of the brothels of Las Vegas than in any official position within Nova Roma or any other organization which intends to hold repute", is more than an insult and the comment belong to improper behavior displayed in a public place how Nova Roma mailing list is.

These words deny any dignity to the human being and in the last part of the phrase of the women and affect one reputation and image.

* Reference: the mailing list message of Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus Pius no. 77802:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/77802

Therefore, we the censores K. Fabius Buteo Modianus and T. Iulius Sabinus in agreement and in concordance with the authority we were invested by the People of Nova Roma and the Nova Roman Constitution, 5.IV.A.1.f1, issue a nota against citizen, legatus pro praetore and pontifex Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus Pius.

"A nota against an ordinary individual is sufficient to deprive that individual of the right to vote until such time as it is removed"

Q. Caecilius Metellus Postumianus Pius is deprived of the right to vote until such time the current nota is removed.

Datum pridie idus Quint. 2763 auc.

K. Fabius Buteo Modianus
T. Iulius Sabinus
Censores.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> Comments interleaved. I recommend the Rudimenta Latina text, A Natural
> History of Latin, by Tore Janson (translated by Merethe Damsgård Sørensen and
> Nigel Vincent, OUP 2004) for a fuller and much more recent treatment of the
> development of Latin.
>
>
>
> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>
> In keeping with this thread, I'd like to offer a three-part essay on the
> development and spread of the Latin language.
>
> ATS: As those in the Rudimenta course may be aware, their text (A Natural
> History of Latin) deals with this subject in a very interesting manner...and
> was written a lot more recently than the text copied below.
>
> "How the armies of Rome mastered the nations of the world is known to every
> reader of history, but the story of the conquest by Latin of the languages of
> the world is vague in the minds of most of us. If we should ask ourselves how
> it came about, we should probably think of the world-wide supremacy of Latin
> as a natural result of the world-wide supremacy of the Roman legions or of
> Roman law. But in making this assumption we should be shutting our eyes to the
> history of our own times. A conquered people does not necessarily accept,
> perhaps it has not commonly accepted, the tongue of its master. In his
> 'Ancient and Modern Imperialism' Lord Cromer states that in India only one
> hundred people in every ten thousand can read and write English,
>
> ATS: I strongly suspect that this has changed quite a bit since the day
> of Lord Cromer (whoever he was). The deshis have to know English so that they
> can manage our American bank accounts...and do many other things which used to
> be done west of the Atlantic.
>
>
> and this condition exists after an occupation of one hundred and fifty years
> or more. He adds: 'There does not appear the least prospect of French
> supplanting Arabic in Algeria.' In comparing the results of ancient and modern
> methods perhaps he should have taken into account the fact that India and
> Algeria have literatures of their own,
>
> ATS: Not to mention that those in India probably exist in all fourteen of
> the official languages. Certainly they do in Bengali and Urdu as well as
> Hindi. Down south, Tamil has been around a while (long enough to produce
> three descendants: Telegu, Kannada, and Malayalam, as well as modern Tamil),
> and almost certainly has its own literature, plus the classical language from
> which the north Indian languages are descended, Sanskrit, has a substantial
> body of literature, much of it with religious overtones. Brahmins pretty well
> have to know Sanskrit...
>
>
> which most of the outlying peoples subdued by Rome did not have, and these
> literatures may have strengthened the resistance which the tongue of the
> conquered people has offered to that of the conqueror, but, even when
> allowance is made for this fact, the difference in resultant conditions is
> surprising. From its narrow confines, within a little district on the banks of
> the Tiber, covering, at the close of the fifth century B.C., less than a
> hundred square miles, Latin spread through Italy and the islands of the
> Mediterranean, through France, Spain, England, northern Africa, and the
> Danubian provinces, triumphing over all the other tongues of those regions
> more completely than Roman arms triumphed over the peoples using them.
>
> ATS: As Tore Janson (as translated) says, Latin is the world¹s most
> successful language. Now, if we could just get NR citizens to learn it...
>
> In tracing the story we must keep in our mind's eye the linguistic geography
> of Italy, just as we must remember the political geography of the peninsula in
> following Rome's territorial expansion. Let us think at the outset, then, of a
> little strip of flat country on the Tiber, dotted here and there with hills
> crowned with villages. Such hill towns were Rome, Tusculum, and Praeneste, for
> instance. Each of them was the stronghold and market-place of the country
> immediately about it, and therefore had a life of its own, so that although
> Latin was spoken in all of them it varied from one to the other. This is shown
> clearly enough by the inscriptions which have been found on the sites of these
> ancient towns, and as late as the close of the third century before our era,
> Plautus pokes fun in his comedies at the provincialism of Praeneste.
>
> The towns which we have mentioned were only a few miles from Rome. Beyond
> them, and occupying central Italy and a large part of southern Italy, were
> people who spoke Oscan and the other Italic dialects, which were related to
> Latin, and yet quite distinct from it.
>
> ATS: There is a little item called Faliscan, which is the language
> closest to Latin. This text seems to be completely unaware of this language.
> Oscan and Umbrian are more distinct, all right; I¹ve seen some examples
> thereof, having been inflicted with a graduate course on these matters.
>
>
> In the seaports of the south Greek was spoken, while the Messapians and
> Iapygians occupied Calabria. To the north of Rome were the mysterious
> Etruscans and the almost equally puzzling Venetians and Ligurians. When we
> follow the Roman legions across the Alps into Switzerland, France, England,
> Spain, and Africa, we enter a jungle, as it were, of languages and dialects. A
> mere reading of the list of tongues with which Latin was brought into contact,
> if such a list could be drawn up, would bring weariness to the flesh. In the
> part of Gaul conquered by Caesar, for instance, he tells us that there were
> three independent languages, and sixty distinct states, whose peoples
> doubtless differed from one another in their speech. If we look at a map of
> the Roman world under Augustus, with the Atlantic to bound it on the west, the
> Euphrates on the east, the desert of Sahara on the south, and the Rhine and
> Danube on the north, and recall the fact that the linguistic conditions which
> Caesar found in Gaul in 58 B.C. were typical of what confronted Latin in a
> great many of the western, southern, and northern provinces, the fact that
> Latin subdued all these different tongues, and became the every-day speech of
> these different peoples, will be recognized as one of the marvels of history.
> In fact, so firmly did it establish itself, that it withstood the assaults of
> the invading Gothic, Lombardic, Frankish, and Burgundian, and has continued to
> hold to our own day a very large part of the territory which it acquired some
> two thousand years ago.
>
> That Latin was the common speech of the western world is attested not only by
> the fact that the languages of France, Spain, Roumania, and the other Romance
> countries descend from it, but it is also clearly shown by the thousands of
> Latin inscriptions composed by freeman and freedman, by carpenter, baker, and
> soldier, which we find all over the Roman world.
>
> How did this extraordinary result come about? It was not the conquest of the
> world by the common language of Italy, because in Italy in early days at least
> nine different languages were spoken, but its subjugation by the tongue spoken
> in the city of Rome. The traditional narrative of Rome, as Livy and others
> relate it, tells us of a struggle with the neighboring Latin hill towns in the
> early days of the Republic, and the ultimate formation of an alliance between
> them and Rome. The favorable position of the city on the Tiber for trade and
> defence gave it a great advantage over its rivals, and it soon became the
> commercial and political centre of the neighboring territory. The most
> important of these villages, Tusculum, Præneste, and Lanuvium, were not more
> than twenty miles distant, and the people in them must have come constantly to
> Rome to attend the markets, and in later days to vote, to hear political
> speeches, and to listen to plays in the theatre. Some of them probably heard
> the jests at the expense of their dialectal peculiarities which Plautus
> introduced into his comedies.
>
> The younger generations became ashamed of their provincialisms; they imitated
> the Latin spoken in the metropolis, and by the second century of our era, when
> the Latin grammarians have occasion to cite dialectal peculiarities from
> Latium outside Rome, they quote at second-hand from Varro of the first century
> B.C., either because they will not take the trouble to use their own ears or
> because the differences which were noted in earlier days had ceased to exist.
> The first stage in the conquest of the world by the Latin of Rome comes to an
> end, then, with the extension of that form of speech throughout Latium.
>
> Beyond the limits of Latium it came into contact with Oscan and the other
> Italic dialects, which were related to Latin, but of course were much farther
> removed from it than the Latin of Tusculum or Lanuvium had been, so that the
> adoption of Latin was not so simple a matter as the acceptance of Roman Latin
> by the villages of Latium near Rome had been.
>
> The conflict which went on between Latin and its Italic kinsmen is revealed to
> us now and then by a Latin inscription, into which Oscan or Umbrian forms have
> crept. The struggle had come to an end by the beginning of our era. A few
> Oscan inscriptions are found scratched on the walls of Pompeii after the first
> earthquake, in 63 A.D., but they are late survivals, and no Umbrian
> inscriptions are known of a date subsequent to the first century B.C.
>
> The Social War of 90-88 B.C., between Rome and the Italians, was a
> turning-point in the struggle between Latin and the Italic dialects, because
> it marks a change in the political treatment of Rome's dependencies in Italy.
> Up to this time she had followed the policy of isolating all her Italian
> conquered communities from one another. She was anxious to prevent them from
> conspiring against her. Thus, with this object in view, she made differences
> in the rights and privileges granted to neighboring communities, in order
> that, not being subject to the same limitations, and therefore not having the
> same grievances, they might not have a common basis for joint action against
> her. It would naturally be a part of that policy to allow or to encourage the
> retention by the several communities of their own dialects. The common use of
> Latin would have enabled them to combine against her with greater ease. With
> the conclusion of the Social War this policy gave way before the new
> conception of political unity for the people of Italian stock, and with
> political unity came the introduction of Latin as the common tongue in all
> official transactions of a local as well as of a federal character.
>
> The immediate results of the war, and the policy which Rome carried out at its
> close of sending out colonies and building roads in Italy, contributed still
> more to the larger use of Latin throughout the central and southern parts of
> the peninsula. Samnium, Lucania, and the territory of the Bruttii suffered
> severely from depopulation; many colonies were sent into all these districts,
> so that, although the old dialects must have persisted for a time in some of
> the mountain towns to the north of Rome, the years following the conclusion of
> the Social War mark the rapid disappearance of them and the substitution of
> Latin in their place. Campania took little part in the war, and was therefore
> left untouched. This fact accounts probably for the occurrence of a few Oscan
> inscriptions on the walls of Pompeii as late as 63 A.D.
>
> We need not follow here the story of the subjugation of the Greek seaports in
> southern Italy and of the peoples to the north who spoke non-Italic languages.
> In all these cases Latin was brought into conflict with languages not related
> to itself,
>
> ATS: Huh? Last I heard, Greek and Latin had a common ancestor we call
> Indo-European; there are clear relationships between Latin and Greek in
> vocabulary and grammar...though Greek has far more of both than Latin does.
> Latin is a piker when it comes to both vocabulary and grammar. The latter in
> particular may look daunting to an English speaker, but Greek has defeated
> many a fine Latin student. Too, any Celtic languages among those the Romans
> encountered were also related to Latin via Indo-European, and the last I
> heard, some believe that the Celtic languages share a special bond with the
> Italic ones.
>
>
> and the situation contains slightly different elements from those which
> present themselves in the struggle between Latin and the Italic dialects. The
> latter were nearly enough related to Latin to furnish some support for the
> theory that Latin was modified by contact with them, and this theory has found
> advocates,[4] but there is no sufficient reason for believing that it was
> materially influenced. An interesting illustration of the influence of Greek
> on the Latin of every-day life is furnished by the realistic novel which
> Petronius wrote in the middle of the first century of our era. The characters
> in his story are Greeks, and the language which they speak is Latin, but they
> introduce into it a great many Greek words, and now and then a Greek idiom or
> construction." -
>
> ATS: And by then the Latin was becoming quite strange, too.
>
>
> Frank Frost Abbott, The Common People of Ancient Rome (1911)
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>

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