Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est Kalendis Februariis; hic dies nefastus publicus est.

"His [Numa Pompilius'] regulations, moreover, that tended to inspire
frugality and moderation in the life of the individual citizen and to
create a passion for justice, which preserves the harmony of the
State, were exceedingly numerous, some of them being comprehended in
written laws, and others not written down by embodied in custom and
long usage. To treat of all these would be a difficult task; but
mention of the two of them which have been most frequently cited will
suffice to give evidence of the rest. First, to the end that people
should be content with what they had and should not covet what
belonged to others, there was the law that appointed boundaries to
every man's possessions. For, having ordered every one to draw a line
around his own land and to place stones on the bounds, he consecrated
these stones to Jupiter Terminalis and ordained that all should
assemble at the place every year on a fixed day and offer sacrifices
to them; and he made the festival in honour of these gods of
boundaries among the most dignified of all. This festival the Romans
call Terminalia, from the boundaries, and the boundaries themselves,
by the change of one letter as compared with our language, they call
termines. He also enacted that, if any person demolished or displaced
these boundary stones he should be looked upon as devoted to the god,
to the end that anyone who wished might kill him a sacrilegious person
with impunity and without incurring any stain of guilt. He
established this law with reference not only to private possessions
but also to those belonging to the public; for he marked these also
with boundary stones, to the end that the gods of boundaries might
distinguish the lands of the Romans from those of their neighbours,
and the public lands from such as belonged to private persons.
Memorials of this custom are observed by the Romans down to our times,
purely as a religious form. For they look upon these boundary stones
as gods and sacrifice to them yearly, offering up no kind of animal
(for it is not lawful to stain these stones with blood), but cakes
made of cereals and other first-fruits of the earth. But they ought
still to observe the motive, as well, which led Numa to regard these
boundary stones as gods and content themselves with their own
possessions without appropriating those of others either by violence
or by fraud; whereas now there are some who, in disregard of what is
best and of the example of their ancestors, instead of distinguishing
that which is theirs from that which belongs to others, set as bounds
to their possessions, not the law, but their greed to possess
everything, — which is disgraceful behaviour. But we leave the
considerations of these matters to others." - Dionysius of
Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" 2.74


"At the start of the month they say that Juno the Saviour (Sospita),
Neighbouring the Phrygian Mother, was honoured with new shrines.
If you ask where those temples, dedicated to the goddess
On the Kalends, are now, they are fallen with the lapse of time.
All the rest would have similarly fallen in ruins,
But for the far-sighted concern of our sacred Leader,
Under whose rule the shrines are untouched by age:
Not satisfied with mere men, he also serves the gods.
Pious one, you who build and repair the temples,
May there be mutual care between you and the gods!
May the gods grant you the length of years you grant them,
And may they stand on guard before your house!
On this day too the grove of Alernus is crowded,
Near where Tiber, from afar, meets the ocean waves.
At Numa's sanctuary, and the Thunderer's on the Capitol,
And on the summit of Jove's citadel, a sheep is sacrificed.
Often the sky, covered with cloud, rains heavily,
Or the earth is hidden under a blanket of snow." - Ovid, Fasti II

February is dedicated to the god Mars and to His mother, Iuno (as Iuno
Sospita). The name Februarius, the modern February, is probably
derived from the Latin word februum, religious purification, or from
februa, instruments of purification, or perhaps from the name of the
obscure Etruscan deity Februus. He originally belonged to the Sabine
people of the Apennines. The Etruscans were also very keen on him, but
he was borrowed by the conquering Romans who were looking for a decent
purifying God to help with the spring-cleaning. Most of the festival
days in February are days of solemn religious observance, dedicated to
honoring and propitiating the spirits of the ancestors. February is a
month in which particular reverence was shown to the spirits of
deceased ancestors. In a familiar cultural dichotomy in which both
death and life were celebrated, this was a month devoted to fertility,
both of men and women, and of the land. Many of the rites had vestiges
of agricultural overtones. It may be more than coincidence that the
dead, who were either buried or considered to be in the "underworld",
and the fruits of agriculture, both relate to the earth.


Valete bene,

Cato

SALVETE!

Hodie est Kalendae Februariae; haec dies nefastus est, Iuno Sospita.

To Iuno Sospita a temple was vowed in 197 B.C. by the consul C. Cornelius Cethegus during the Insubrian war and dedicated in 104 on 1st February.
It is said that L. Julius, consul in 90 B.C., restored a temple of Iuno Sospita, in consequence of a dream of Cornelia, the daughter of Q. Caecilius Metellus Balearicus, and it is probable that it is this temple of Iuno Sospita in Rome that is meant rather than the more famous one at Lanuvium. It was in the Forum Holitorium and is generally identified with the smallest of the three temples.
[A Topographical Dictionary of Ancient Rome]

"Huc ades, o regina deum, gens casta precamur et ferimus, digno quaecumque est nomine, turba Ausonidum pulchrumque et, acu et subtemine fuluo quod nostrae neuere manus, uenerabile donum. ac dum decrescit matrum metus, hoc tibi, diua, interea uelamen erit. Si pellere nostris Marmaricam terris nubem dabis, omnis in auro pressa tibi uaria fulgebit gemma corona".

"Be present O Queen of the Heavenly Gods, we Your chaste daughters pray and bring forth this venerable gift, we, all the Roman women of noble name, have woven this mantle with our own hands, embroidered it for You with threads of gold. This veil You shall wear for now, O Juno, until we mothers grow less fearful for our sons. But if You will grant that we may repel these African storm clouds from our land, we shall set upon You a flashing crown of diverse gems set in gold".
[The Latin Library: Ti. Catius Asconius Silius Italicus – Punica, L.VII, 78-85.]

This day, capite velato, I have invoked Iuno Covella on the 5th day by saying the traditional formula:

"Die Quinti te kalo Iuno Covella"

I offered incense and saying prayers I asked the Goddess to be favorable toward us, the entire Nova Roman community.

The festivals to be celebrated in the month of Februarius shall be:

1 N Kalendae, Iuno Sospita
2 N Nundina, dies ater, Iuno Februa, Ceres.
3 N
4 N Fornicalia.
5 N Nonae, Faunus, Concordia.
6 N Dies ater
7 N
8 N
9 N
10 N Nundina.
11 N
12 N
13 NP Idibus, religiosus, Feriae Iovi, Virgo Vestalis Parentatio.
14 N Dies ater
15 NP Religiosus, Lupercalia.
16 EN Religiosus
17 NP Religiosus, Quirinalia.
18 C Nundina, religiosus, Parentalia.
19 C Religiosus, Parentalia.
20 C Religiosus Parentalia.
21 F Religiosus, Feralia.
22 C Carista.
23 NP Terminalia.
24 N Regifugium.
25 C
26 EN, Nundina.
27 NP Equirria.
28 C

At the end I poured a libation of honeyed milk thanking to the Goddess for Her benevolence.

VALETE,
Sabinus

PS. My appologies in advance if the message was sent twice to the group.

Cato Iulio Sabino pontifex maximus omnibusque in foro SPD

Pontiff, thank you for the listing of days in Februarius; would you be kind enough to let all magistrates know on which days they might do things like make appointments and issue edicts? Thank you!

Valete,

Cato

SALVETE!

Hodie est Kalendae Februariae; haec dies nefastus est, Iuno Sospita.

To Iuno Sospita a temple was vowed in 197 B.C. by the consul C. Cornelius Cethegus during the Insubrian war and dedicated in 104 on 1st February.
It is said that L. Julius, consul in 90 B.C., restored a temple of Iuno Sospita, in consequence of a dream of Cornelia, the daughter of Q. Caecilius Metellus Balearicus, and it is probable that it is this temple of Iuno Sospita in Rome that is meant rather than the more famous one at Lanuvium. It was in the Forum Holitorium and is generally identified with the smallest of the three temples.
[A Topographical Dictionary of Ancient Rome]

"Huc ades, o regina deum, gens casta precamur et ferimus, digno quaecumque est nomine, turba Ausonidum pulchrumque et, acu et subtemine fuluo quod nostrae neuere manus, uenerabile donum. ac dum decrescit matrum metus, hoc tibi, diua, interea uelamen erit. si pellere nostris Marmaricam terris nubem dabis, omnis in auro pressa tibi uaria fulgebit gemma corona".

"Be present O Queen of the Heavenly Gods, we Your chaste daughters pray and bring forth this venerable gift, we, all the Roman women of noble name, have woven this mantle with our own hands, embroidered it for You with threads of gold. This veil You shall wear for now, O Juno, until we mothers grow less fearful for our sons. But if You will grant that we may repel these African storm clouds from our land, we shall set upon You a flashing crown of diverse gems set in gold".
[The Latin Library: Ti. Catius Asconius Silius Italicus – Punica, L.VII, 78-85.]

This day, capite velato, I have invoked Iuno Covella on the 5th day by saying the traditional formula:

"Die Quinti te kalo Iuno Covella"

I offered incense and saying prayers I asked the Goddess to be favorable toward us, the entire Nova Roman community.

The festivals to be celebrated in the month of Februarius shall be:

1 N Kalendae, Iuno Sospita
2 N Nundina, dies ater, Iuno Februa, Ceres.
3 N
4 N Fornicalia.
5 N Nonae, Faunus, Concordia.
6 N Dies ater
7 N
8 N
9 N
10 N Nundina.
11 N
12 N
13 NP Idibus, religiosus, Feriae Iovi, Virgo Vestalis Parentatio.
14 N Dies ater
15 NP Religiosus, Lupercalia.
16 EN Religiosus
17 NP Religiosus, Quirinalia.
18 C Nundina, religiosus, Parentalia.
19 C Religiosus, Parentalia.
20 C Religiosus Parentalia.
21 F Religiosus, Feralia.
22 C Carista.
23 NP Terminalia.
24 N Regifugium.
25 C
26 EN, Nundina.
27 NP Equirria.
28 C

At the end I poured a libation of honeyed milk thanking to the Goddess for Her benevolence.

VALETE,
Sabinus

Reminder from:		Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
Title:		After every Kalends, Nones, Ides, the next day is "Ater"
Date:		Wednesday February 2, 2011
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every month.
Notes:		Ater (unlucky) *Gods or Goddesses should not be invoked by name while indoors, and no celestial God or Goddess should be invoked by name while outdoors. *Sacrifices should not be made, even at the lararium. *These days are ill-omened to begin any new project since any new project would necessarily begin by performing a rite calling for the assistance of the gods. Such religious rites, beginning something new, are not to be performed. *Avoid making journeys, or doing anything risky.
Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options

Copyright © 2011  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem IV Nonas Februarius; hic dies nefastus aterque est.


"After the death of Numa Pompilius the senate, being once more in full
control of the commonwealth, resolved to abide by the same form of
government, and as the people did not adopt any contrary opinion, they
appointed some of the older senators to govern as interreges for a
definite number of days. These men, pursuant to the unanimous desire
of the people, chose as king Tullus Hostilius, whose descent was as
follows. From Medullia, a city which had been built by the Albans and
made a Roman colony by Romulus after he had taken it by capitulation,
a man of distinguished birth and great fortune, named Hostilius, had
removed to Rome and married a woman of the Sabine race, the daughter
of Hersilius, the same woman who had advised her country-women to go
as envoys to their fathers on behalf of their husbands at the time
when the Sabines were making war against the Romans, and was regarded
as the person chiefly responsible for the alliance then concluded by
the leaders of the two nations. This man, after taking part with
Romulus in many wars and performing mighty deeds in the battles with
the Sabines, died, leaving an only son, a young child at the time, and
was buried by the kings in the principal part of the Forum and
honoured with a monument and an inscription testifying to his valour.
His only son, having come to manhood and married a woman of
distinction, had by her Tullius Hostilius, a man of action, the same
who was now chosen king by a vote passed by the citizens concerning
him according to the laws; and the decision of the people was
confirmed by favourable omens from Heaven. The year in which he
assumed the sovereignty was the second of the twenty-seventh Olympiad,
the one in which Eurybates, an Athenian, won the prize in the
foot-race, Leostratus being archon at Athens. Tullus, immediately
upon his accession, gained the hearts of all the labouring class and
of the needy among the populace by performing an act of the most
splendid kind. It was this: The kings before him had possessed much
fertile land, especially reserved for them, from the revenues of which
they not only offered sacrifices to the gods, but also had abundant
provision for their private needs. This land Romulus had acquired in
war by dispossessing the former owners, and when he died childless,
Numa Pompilius, his successor, had enjoyed its use; it was no longer
the property of the state, but the inherited possession of the
successive kings. Tullus now permitted this land to be divided
equally among such of the Romans as had no allotment, declaring that
his own patrimony was sufficient both for the sacrifices and for his
personal expenditures. By this act of humanity he relieved the poor
among the citizens by freeing them from the necessity of labouring as
serfs on the estates of others. And, to the end that none might lack a
habitation either, he included within the city wall the hill called
the Caelian, where those Romans who were unprovided with dwellings
were allotted a sufficient amount of ground and built houses; and he
himself had his residence in this quarter. These, then, are the
memorable actions reported of this king so far as regards his civil
administration." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" 3.1


Today is celebrated as Groundhog Day in the U.S. Punxsutawney Phil, a
groundhog, is the official arbiter of when winter will end; he
annually makes an appearance to forecast whether there are six more
weeks of winter or if spring is just around the corner. For more
information, see this website:

http://www.groundhog.org


Valete bene!

Cato

SALVE!

--- On Tue, 2/1/11, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote: 





Cato Iulio Sabino pontifex maximus omnibusque in foro SPD

Pontiff, thank you for the listing of days in Februarius; would you be kind enough to let all magistrates know on which days they might do things like make appointments and issue edicts? Thank you!>>> 
There is a wiki page which deal with the character of the days:
 http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Roman_calendar#Nundinae_and_Nundinal_letters
Starting from there we have:
Dies Fasti: as time curule magistrates can perform their judicial duties there is not any reason as they to be forbidden issuing edicts and makeing appointments.
Dies Comitiales: no restrictions.
Dies Nefasti: magistrates can not issue edicts and make appointments.
Dies Nefasti Publici: the same as Dies Nefasti.
Dies Endotercisi: as time is fasti in the afternoon magistrates at that time can issue edicts and make appointments.
Dies Fasti Publici: as time there are some interpretations among scholars is better to abstain issuing edicts and make appointments. However if very necessary it works in the morning.
Dies Atri: as time are unlucky days is better to avoid.
 
For the rest of days is more complex and is better to avoid or at last to respect the rules. For example in the Quando Rex Comitiavit fas magistrates must wait until Modianus appears in the comitia. Then they can issue edicts or make appointments as time as after the Rex apparition the day become Dies Fasti.
 
The most important source about the subject is the Macrobius’ “Saturnalia”, Liber I, 16, one can find on line here in Latin or French:
http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/L/Roman/Texts/Macrobius/Saturnalia/1*.html%c2%a0
 
VALE,
Sabinus
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tribunus Plebis C. Aemilius Crassus Quiritibus SPD,



Senate Voting Results published on February 3.



The Senate has finished its latest session and the votes have been tallied
as below.



Formal debate began at sunrise Roman time Saturday January 22.

Voting began at 7.29 Roman time Wednesday January 26.

Voting ended at 17.20 Roman time Saturday January 29.



Results were officially published by the presiding magistrate on the Senate
list on January 30.



The following 17 Senators cast votes in time. They are referred to by their
initials, which are listed in alphabetical order:



*ATS: Aula Tullia Scholastica

*CEC: Gaius Equitius Cato

*CFD: Caius Flavius Diocletianus

*CPD: Gaius Petronius Dexter

*CPL: Gaius Popillius Laenas

*CVA: Gaius Vipsanius Agrippa

*CnIC: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar

*DIPI: Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus

*KFBM: Caeso Fabius Buteo Modianus

*LCSF: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

*MIP: Marcus Iulius Perusianus

*PMA: Publius Memmius Albucius

*PUSV: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator

*QFM: Quintus Fabius Maximus

*QSP: Quintus Suetonius Paulinus

*TiGP: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

*TIS: Titus Iulius Sabinus



The following Senator informed the presiding magistrate that his absence of
vote was due to unexpected health and informatics problems.

*MMA: Marcus Minucius Audens



The following 4 Senators did not cast a vote:

*ECF: Emilia Curia Finnica

*MAM: Marcus Arminius Maior

*MCC: Marcus Curiatius Complutensis

*MLA: Marcus Lucretius Agricola



“UTI ROGAS” indicates a vote in favour of an item, “ANTIQUO” is a vote
against, and “ABSTINEO” is an expressed abstention.



Item VI - Discussion of the Status of "The Eagle" was removed by Consul Cato
and postpone for future session.



The items for consideration were as follows



Agenda



Item I: Appointment of a CFO



“1. By this senatus consultum, the Senate hereby defines the position of
Chief

Financial Officer (herein designated as "CFO"). An individual shall be

appointed to the position of CFO by senatus consultum, passing by no less
than a

two-thirds majority vote, for a term specified by the same, but in no case

longer than thirty-six months.



2. An individual appointed to, and accepting of, the position of CFO,

shall be given access to all financial data and accounts, including

but not limited to the deposit, credit, and brokerage accounts of the

corporation and its associated entities, and all access methods

thereto, as well as the surface mail directed to Nova Roma, Inc.



3. The CFO shall report directly to the co-presidents of Nova Roma, or in
their

absence, the co-vice presidents, and through them, to the Board of
Directors.



4. The CFO shall have the ability to appoint and dismiss assistants as it
sees

fit, not to exceed four individuals, who shall be treated as under direct

appointment by the Board of Directors. For their

service, these individuals shall receive an amount of century points

equal to those of regularly appointed scribae.



5. An incoming CFO shall be appointed to a term so as to overlap that of an

outgoing CFO by three months, during which time the incoming CFO

shall co-operate with the outgoing CFO to ensure smooth transition of

necessary access to records and operations as outlined elsewhere in

this and relevant consulta. An incoming CFO, during this three-month

period, shall also assess the financial status and performance of the

corporation and report the same to the Board of Directors, and

complete and analysis of the financial results of the corporation and

develop recommendations for future measures.



6. An individual accepting appointment to the position of CFO may hold no
other

position within Nova Roma, as defined and allowed for by Section II.B. of
the

Lex Vedia Centuriata (or any such legislation as replaces the same),
excepting a

seat as Senator. Standing for office by a sitting CFO shall be understood as

the announcement of resignation, to be effective on the starting date of the

position for which the individual is standing. Such a resignation will still
be

effective even if the individual does not come to hold the office.



7. In the event of a vacancy in the position of CFO, the consuls shall

have the authority to appoint, from the appointed assistants to the

previous CFO, a CFO "pro tempore", for a term to last no longer than

six months from the date of appointment. By the end of that time, the

Board of Directors must appoint a new CFO, to serve the remainder of

the previous incomplete term, or if less than six months remain of

that term, to start a new term.



8. The CFO shall have overall responsibility for the financial data of

Nova Roma and its associated entities, and shall oversee all financial

operations of the organisation, including, butn not limited to: those

undertaken by those individuals elected by the comitia, those

undertaken by the provinciae and their subsidiaries, those undertaken

by the sodalitates, and those undertaken by the sacerdotes publici as

appointed by the Senate, Collegium Pontificum, or other body so

empowered.



9. The CFO shall be responsible for the development and recommendation of

financial protocols to ensure proper compliance with laws and regulations,
both

inside and outside Nova Roma, shall be responsible for the monitoring of

internal financial controls and procedures, and shall produce financial
reports

to be provided to the Board of Directors at such frequency as required by
Nova

Roman law.



10. The CFO shall maintain financial oversight of all accounting

practises, budget and cash management, oversight of debt financing,

and shall undertake those administrative tasks related to maintaining

the financial welfare of the corporation.



11. The CFO shall also oversee budgetary planning, make recommendations for

budgetary measures, represent the organization to the financial community,
work

with the officers and other elected and appointed individuals to ensure

operational success and compliance, minimize potential risks to the

organization, and oversee business insurance

plans.



12. The Senate of Nova hereby appoints Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix as CFO
of

Nova Roma, Inc.”



UTI ROGAS: 11

ANTIQUO: 1

ABSTINEO: 5



The result of voting is Item I PASSED



*CEC: UTI ROGAS

*CnIC: UTI ROGAS

*LCSF: I do have one comment on the Item 1 (The CFO appointment) as a
general rule I would always abstain in items that would involve myself. In
this item I make an exception for two specific reasons. First the
importance of the position I felt required my vote. Secondly, my request to
the consuls in regards to this item was such that I felt that I would need
the overwhelming support of the senate as a sign of confidence in my ability
to do the job justice. That is why I asked both consuls for a 2/3 majority
vote on this agenda item. UTI ROGAS

*CPL: UTI ROGAS

*QSP: UTI ROGAS

*CVA: UTI ROGAS

*TiGP: UTI ROGAS

*CFD: UTI ROGAS

*PUSV: UTI ROGAS

*PMA: I have obliged to ask informations about the documents etc., that were
kept by our former CFO, Eq. Iunia Laeca, and that it had not been considered
important enough to give the Senate, spontaneously, a full information on
this situation, so important for Nova Roma.I have been also surprised that
the information came from Censorius Sulla, then not yet a candidate for CFO,
and not from the consul(s), who should represent Nova Roma on this matter
and defend his proposals.I am willing to bring my support to the consuls on
this important field, but from the moment the Senate will be clearly
confirmed by our consuls/co-presidents, towards the Curia/board in session,
that the whole package of infos until then kept by Iunia is now under
control and under their responsibility, or at least its key elements (basic
books, check books, and other codes). I have well recorded the candidacy of
Censorius Sulla and am ready to give him my sincere and full support.For the
moment, I will therefore take the opportunity that, contrary to what
provides the proposed § 1 of the sc, no precise length is proposed for the
appointment of the CFO in article 12 of the proposed SC, and refrain voting
(NO PROPOSAL ==> NO VOTE). This statement works, naturally, under Nova Roma
internal laws as in the frame of the incorporation law.

*QFM: I much as I like L. Cornelius Sulla I believe putting our finances in
the hands of one person is asking for trouble. Look at what the illness of
the former CFO did to our republic?

I believe the more people involved i.e, the Quaestors, the less chance
something untowards will occur.

Therefore, until more then one person is involved. ANTIQUO

*MIP: ABSTINEO

*KFBM: I would like to comment on the CFO position. I do agree with Q.
Fabius Maximus that I do not like this being in the hands of one person and
think our quaestores should have this task. I would recommend, as I have
said before, that we establish two quaestores that are elected for two year
terms similar to the censores who act as joint CFOs. This way our financial
officers are elected magistrates and have some continuity. Also, I think
these quaestores should be of the senatorial class. UTI ROGAS

*CPD: ABSTINEO

*ATS:

*DIuPI: As a stopgap measure, yes, though we definitely need to revisit this
position. UTI ROGAS

*TIS: No proposal – no vote.



Item II: Creation of a panel to recommend action regarding the leges

Saliciae

UTI ROGAS: 12

ANTIQUO: 0

ABSTINEO: 5



The result of voting is Item II PASSED



*CEC: UTI ROGAS

*CnIC: UTI ROGAS

*LCSF: UTI ROGAS

*CPL: UTI ROGAS

*QSP: UTI ROGAS

*CVA: UTI ROGAS

*TiGP: UTI ROGAS

*CFD: UTI ROGAS

*PUSV: UTI ROGAS

*PMA: If I am not wrong, I did not see any written contents under this
title, submitted either during the discussion, or for the vote. As only the
contents of a legal text produces a legal binding force, and not its title,
I understand that, in this absence of contents, there is no proposal for the
vote. No information has been given on the consular motivations, the kind
and composition of this “panel”.NO PROPOSAL ==> NO VOTE.

*QFM: This was very vague. I assume you mean "recommending how best to
replace the leges Salicae"

We all ready know what action needs to be taken. It needs to be replaced.
What we are going to replace it with, there is where a concilium would be
useful.

In that case: UTI ROGAS

*MIP: If I am not wrong, I did not see any written contents under this title
as well. I can'vote so I abstain. ABSTINEO

*KFBM: UTI ROGAS

*CPD: What do you exactly recommend? ABSTINEO

*ATS: May I inquire just what action is contemplated? There is no text.
ABSTINEO

*DIuPI: I agree with Albucius, this is kind of putting the cart before the
horse, as a more specific proposal for a panel should have been presented.
This essentially asks whether we should have a panel. To which I respond,
"sure," "uti rogas," but wait for something more concrete later. UTI ROGAS

*TIS: No proposal – no vote.



Item III: SCU to allow voting in the comitia centuriata regarding the repeal
of the sententiae against L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur



SENATUS CONSULTUM ULTIMUM RE: VOTING/ELECTORAL PROCEDURES





1. In accordance with Section V.E of the Constitution of Nova Roma, the
Senate

enacts this Senatus consultum ultimum.



2. The consuls are authorized to override, by consular edicta, those
sections of

the Constitution and leges of Nova Roma that deal directly or indirectly
with

the calling of any comitia to vote upon legislative proposals or to conduct

elections, in order that such comitia calls may proceed without recourse to
the

cista software tools.



3. The scope of the authority at (2) above shall be limited only to
overriding

those sections of the Constitution and leges which would otherwise make the

conduct of comitia business impossible or in the opinion of the consuls

unnecessarily complicated and time consuming without recourse to the cista

software tools.



4. This Senatus consultum ultimum shall expire no later than pridie Kalendas

Ianuarius 2765 AUC (December 31st 2011) or upon the recovery of the cista

software tools in full working order and fully operable by the magistrates
and

their staff normally concerned with the conduct of comitia calls and votes,

whichever event shall occur first.



UTI ROGAS: 13

ANTIQUO: 0

ABSTINEO: 4



The result of voting is Item III PASSED



*CEC: UTI ROGAS

*CnIC: UTI ROGAS

*LCSF: UTI ROGAS

*CPL: UTI ROGAS

*QSP: UTI ROGAS

*CVA: UTI ROGAS

*TiGP: UTI ROGAS

*CFD: UTI ROGAS

*PUSV: UTI ROGAS

*PMA: If I am not wrong, I did not see any written contents under this
title, submitted either during the discussion, or for the vote. As only the
contents of a legal text produces a legal binding force, and not its title,
I understand that, in this absence of contents, there is no proposal for the
vote. No information has been given on the need of a SCU, nor the reason to
invite the comitia to repeal the Equitian judicial sentence. NO PROPOSAL ==>
NO VOTE.

*QFM: I am assuming that the Consuls believes that the sentence against L.
Equitius was too harsh and they request that it be overturned through

an appeal to the Century assembly.

Actually since IMO the "trial" was extra ordinem and had nothing to do with
the L. Salica an Edictum would overturn it by the Consul's use of exercito
iudicii publici, just as the former Consul Moravius used it to convict.

If that is the case I do agree and vote UTI ROGAS

*MIP: ABSTINEO

*KFBM: UTI ROGAS

*CPD: ABSTINEO

*ATS: Uti rogas, though I thought that there was only one sententia.
Again, there is no text. That means that the validity of this item may be
called into question. UTI ROGAS

*DIuPI: An injustice long overdue to be overturned. This should go to a
comitia ASAP. UTI ROGAS

*TIS: No proposal – no vote.



Item IV: Approval of an SCU allowing the appointments of quaestores



“SENATUS CONSULTUM ULTIMAM REGARDING THE APPOINTMENT OF QUAESTORS



1. This Senatus consultum ultimum is issued under the authority of

Section V.E of the Constitution of Nova Roma.



2. The election for quaestors held in 2763 left seven positions vacant

due to a lack of candidates.



3. Section IV.A of the Constitution is unsuitable to deal with that

situation at (2) due to it referring to vacancies "mid-term", whereas

these positions were never filled to begin with. Section III.A.1 Lex

Fabia de ratione comitiorum populi tributorum requires the presiding

magistrate of the elections where vacancies occurred to call for a

follow up election from unsuccessful candidates. The presiding officer

is no longer in office and there were no unsuccessful candidates. The

Constitution and law therefore do not address the current situation.



4. In recognition of the current lack of cista software, the complex

and time consuming alternative electoral process, the lack of

unsuccessful candidates, the uncertainty of sufficient candidates

becoming available in one election call and the Constitution and law

being silent on this specific situation, this Senatus Consultum

Ultimum authorises the Consuls to directly appoint to the office of

Quaestor such persons as are subsequently identified as both willing

to serve in that capacity and who meet the requirements of the Lex

Iunia de magistratuum aetate, the Lex Vedia de cursu honorum, the Lex

Cornelia Iunia de definitione intervallorum magistratuum and the Lex

Salicia de prorogatione et cumulatione. Such appointments shall be

made by consular edicta under the authority of this Senatus consultum

ultimum.



5. This Senatus consultum ultimum shall expire no later than Kalendiis

Septembribus 2764 AUC (1 September AD 2011) or upon the recovery of the
cista

software tools in full working order and fully operable by the magistrates
and

their staff normally concerned with the conduct of comitia calls and votes,

whichever event shall occur first.”



UTI ROGAS: 11

ANTIQUO: 4

ABSTINEO: 2



The result of voting is Item IV PASSED



*CEC: UTI ROGAS

*CnIC: UTI ROGAS

*LCSF: UTI ROGAS

*CPL: UTI ROGAS

*QSP: UTI ROGAS

*CVA: UTI ROGAS

*TiGP: UTI ROGAS

*CFD: UTI ROGAS

*PUSV: UTI ROGAS

*PMA: As no updated version of the text has been issued, I suppose that my
recommendations to limit in time this SCU have not been considered as
appropriate.

I would have been ready to support a SCU that would have left our consuls
the time to organize an election by electronic way like in last November,
and that they could have made profitable with the addition of several legal
proposals. The normal working of our institutions cannot, neither last year
nor now, depend on the technical work to be done on our IT system.

We have now two working consuls, a renewed Senate, a renewed Collegium
Pontificum and no more conspirators who intend to take the control of the
Republic illegally. Let us come back to a normal way, and use our SCU for
limited periods, the time for us, in such cases, to organize elections.

As a consequence, my vote will be, with sincere regret : ANTIQUO

*QFM: If this was actually Republican Rome, the Senate would appoint a
dictator to oversee the elections. He would conduct them and then resign.

This does not IMO rise to the level of an SCU. Let's organize elections,
like last winter through a SC. The less use of a SCU here in NR, the
better.

Therefore my vote will be ANTIQUO

*MIP: ABSTINEO

*KFBM: UTI ROGAS

*CPD: I would prefer quaestores elected than appointed.

Elections must be hold. ANTIQUO

*ATS: I prefer elections, but not like the past ones. With extreme
reservations, UTI ROGAS

*DIuPI: ABSTINEO

*TIS: I prefer a way to lesser the quaestores number and then elections.
ANTIQUO



Item V: SC on activities in Provincia Sarmatia



“SENATUS CONSULTUM REGARDING PROVINCIA SARMATIA



1. The governor and citizens of the Nova Roman province of Sarmatia is

instructed to forthwith terminate all fund raising activity, all

disbursement of money or any other financial activity conducted in the

name of the province of Sarmatia or in the name of Nova Roma, or on

behalf of Sodalitas proDIIS or any other activity, project, entity or

person(s).



2. The governor of the Nova Roman province of Sarmatia or his

successor(s) or designates is/are instructed to prepare a full

accounting of all assets, donations or payments of monies received

together any other income and all expenditures from the date of the

formation of the province onwards, together with a full list of any

and all bank accounts, PayPal accounts, or any other account used for

the

collection, storage or distribution of money that it has raised or

otherwise acquired.



3. The governor of the Nova Roman province of Sarmatia or his

successor(s) or designates will remit the full accounting required at

(2) above to the Consuls of Nova Roma within 30 (thirty) days of the

passing of this Senatus Consultum.



4. The Consuls shall by consular edictum specify the form that

accounting and provision of information as required at (2) shall take

and may amend that form by subsequent edicta, as well as further

define by consular edictum details of any other items, information or

action required that they deem necessary to provide full and

comprehensive disclosure by the Nova Roman province of Sarmatia of its

activities.



5. The Consuls are empowered to determine whether, based on the

information received, or as a result of the failure to provide any or

all of the information required by this Senatus Consultum or under

Consular edictum, the Nova Roman province of Sarmatia should be placed

under direct control and administration of the Consuls, which if they

so determine shall be made effective by the issuance of a Consular

edict to that effect.”



UTI ROGAS: 12

ANTIQUO: 3

ABSTINEO: 2



The result of voting is Item V PASSED



*CEC: UTI ROGAS

*CnIC: UTI ROGAS

*LCSF: UTI ROGAS

*CPL: UTI ROGAS

*QSP: UTI ROGAS

*CVA: UTI ROGAS

*TiGP: UTI ROGAS

*CFD: UTI ROGAS

*PUSV: UTI ROGAS

*PMA: As no updated version of the text has been issued, I suppose that my
recommendations have not been considered as appropriate.

One of the points on which we still need to progress is our good knowledge
of every constitutional Powers' field.

Here, our consuls do not need a senatus consultum, for, in the present
circumstance, Sarmatia has no governor. They just have to use their higher
imperium to take the interim lead of Provincia Sarmatia, to state what
happens there, to report the Curia, and afterwards, if necessary, to request
from the Curia the authorization to go on ruling Sarmatia, specially to
obtain a prorogation beyond pr. Kal. Apriles.

Second, this proposal apparently aims to deal with the relations between
Sarmatia and the Sodalitas ProDiis. But it does not say it and do not
explain the reasons why Sarmatia would be, specially and as a whole, a
matter of suspicion.

Last, the proposed text aims “the governor of the Nova Roma province of
Sarmatia” who is, currently... no one, since the resignation of former leg.
p.p. Octavius Corvus.

So, on this not necessary and legally not applicable text, my vote is :
ANTIQUO.

*QFM: What a mess. But with Corvus gone we have to reorganize. As for a
Temple that is supposed to be in Rome, now transplanted to Sarmatia

let's close the book on this situation. UTI ROGAS

*MIP: ABSTINEO

*KFBM: UTI ROGAS

*CPD: UTI ROGAS

*ATS: And this concerns...a nonexistent governor? And the exact text is?
ANTIQUO

*DIuPI: ABSTINEO

*TIS: No need for that. ANTIQUO



Item VII: Age exemption for C. Cocceius Spinula



“SENATUS CONSULTUM REGARDING AN AGE EXEMPTION



In view of lex Iunia de Magistratuum aetate, paragraph IV and VI, the Senate
of

Rome decides that G. Cocceius Spinula is granted an exemption of age, which

allows him to enter, if elected or appointed, the public magistracy of
quaestor

before he has reached the age of 21.”



UTI ROGAS: 15

ANTIQUO: 2

ABSTINEO: 0



The result of voting is Item VII PASSED



*CEC: UTI ROGAS

*CnIC: UTI ROGAS

*LCSF: UTI ROGAS

*CPL: UTI ROGAS

*QSP: UTI ROGAS

*CVA: UTI ROGAS

*TiGP: UTI ROGAS

*CFD: UTI ROGAS

*PUSV: UTI ROGAS

*PMA: Harassment seems to come back in fashion : we have already voted two
months ago on this request, and it was rejected. Nothing has changed since
last Nov. 19 : Cocceius is still a worthy and working citizen, but his
birthday has not moved : still next July 6th. I expect that, as a real
Roman, he be patient enough.

As I have always told my reluctance to accept exemptions of any kind, my
position has, therefore, not changed. Moreover, as I do not appreciate being
requested to vote on this same item, I will oppose this exemption. If our
consul wishes to record my vote, it will thus be antiquo.

But this possible vote will have no legal consequences for, beside the
Senate's vote, the agreement of both censors is required. ANTIQUO

*QFM: Put Spinula to work. But as Censor Memmius points out, it is a
symbolic vote unless he changes his mind. UTI ROGAS

*MIP: UTI ROGAS

*KFBM: UTI ROGAS

*CPD: UTI ROGAS

*ATS: Most of us (indeed, nearly all of us, if memory serves) agreed to this
last time around. It is time to let this highly energetic young man run for
the magistracy he seeks especially since we are short of candidates.
Several others seeking various posts have been exempted for a few monthsÂ’
difference in their ages from that specified in the law; there is nothing
new about this. UTI ROGAS

*DIuPI: ANTIQUO

*TIS: Maybe my colleague censor will understand that we live that time when
is not good option to reject the good voluntary work, especially when the
applicant demonstrated that. UTI ROGAS



Item VIII: SC regarding dissolution of MMP



“THE MAGNA MATER PROJECT PROPOSED SENATUS CONSULTUM



1. All previously issued Senatus consulta in respect of the Magna Mater
Project

(also known as the MMP) are rescinded.



2. The Magna Mater Project is terminated forthwith.



3. The Consuls are directed to either directly and/or by delegation to a
team of

their own choice, to refund all identifiable donations made to the Magna
Mater

Project to such donors as can be identified, traced and communicated with.
Such

refunds should be made by PayPal or if that service is not used by a donor
by

cheque drawn upon the Nova Roman bank account.



4. The Senate directs that such funds that cannot be refunded as at (3)
shall

before December 31st 2011, be transferred to a separate bank account in
order

not to co-mingle funds. The senate authorises the creation of a PayPal
account

linked to this separate bank account now or at such time in the future as it
may

be required to process refunds to donors.



5. The Senate directs that such funds that are transferred as at (4) shall
not

be used for any purpose and shall be maintained until and if unidentified
donors

are subsequently identified, traced and communicated with and their
donations

refunded, until such point as the funds transferred at (4) are exhausted and
the

bank account able to be closed.



6. The Senate directs that copies of the Magna Mater Project website files
be

obtained and stored on the same server as the Nova Roman website/wiki is
hosted

upon, now or in the future.



7. The Senate directs that the Consuls shall first arrange that the content
of

any article referring to the Magna Mater Project on the Nova Roman website
wiki

shall be copied into text files and stored within the records of the Senate
list

and also as text files on the same server as the Nova Roman website/wiki.

Subsequent to such copying being done, the Senate directs that the Consuls
shall

have all references to the Magna Mater Project deleted from the Nova Roman

website/wiki.



8. The Senate directs that any work upon the Magna Mater Project, apart from

that specified in this Senatus consultum, shall cease immediately and no
further

action or work be taken upon or in support of the Magna Mater Project.”



UTI ROGAS: 14

ANTIQUO: 3

ABSTINEO: 0



The result of voting is Item VIII PASSED



*CEC: UTI ROGAS

*CnIC: UTI ROGAS

*LCSF: UTI ROGAS

*CPL: UTI ROGAS

*QSP: UTI ROGAS

*CVA: UTI ROGAS

*TiGP: UTI ROGAS

*CFD: UTI ROGAS

*PUSV: UTI ROGAS

*PMA: Uti rogas, for I am convinced that our organization has not the
necessary skills or enough (political) will to deal with such a project,
which would need a steady Project team over years, and whose legitimacy
would not be at stake every year. Let us being honest with ourselves and
close this Project.

I recommend our Consuls and their assistants to :

find the best words to explain our donors why we were not able to implement
the program voted initially or modified three years ago ;

ask our collegium pontificum to have a piaculum organized, which would
associate the Senate and the major magistrates present in our walls, to
confirm the Magna Mater that our decision must not be as a mark of lack of
respect towards her. UTI ROGAS

*QFM: Finally. My lawyer will be pleased. About returning the money, those
who wish it applied to NR's treasury will have to express that wish in
writing. UTI ROGAS

*MIP: It's a real pity that NR found no way of developing this project which
was at the very beginning a real way of be considered seriuosly by the
Italian public administration. I've spent days and money in the very first
steps, believed in it, exposed myself with University scholars, filmed
documentaries in the ruins, visited the temple three or four times.... all
is lost thank to NR bureocracts, people who dwell here only to criticize,
people who see cospiracy and fraud everywhere.

For what was once the MMP (the name I gave to the project), its website (the
domain I took control on behalf of NR), all that time and money wasted, I
vote ANTIQVO.

*KFBM: UTI ROGAS

*CPD: ANTIQUO

*ATS: Again with reservations, but it is clear that the original plan cannot
be realized. I hope that the secondary one concerning the bench and
reflection area or whatever will be reconsidered. UTI ROGAS

*DIuPI: UTI ROGAS

*TIS: I understand the Senator Perusianus' points, I lived them, and, with
regret I must say that NR is not able to sustain, develop or adapt any
complex project whatever the project is. ANTIQUO



Item IX: SC regarding Sodalitas proDIIS



“SENATUS CONSULTUM REGARDING SODALITAS PRODIIS



Senatus consultum - Suspension of activity - Sodalitas proDIIS



1. The governing authority (Collegium) of proDIIS and Sodalitas

proDIIS is instructed to forthwith terminate all activity other than

that necessary to fulfill the requirements of this Senatus Consultum

and is specifically forbidden to engage in any further fund raising

activity.



2. The governing authority (Collegium) of proDIIS is instructed to

prepare a full accounting of all assets, donations or payments of

monies received together any other income and all expenditures from

December 3rd 2262 onwards, together with a full list of any and all

bank accounts, PayPal accounts, or any other account used for the

collection, storage or distribution of money that it has raised or

otherwise acquired.



3. The governing authority (Collegium) of proDIIS will remit the full

accounting required at (2) above to the Consuls of Nova Roma within 30

(thirty) days of the passing of this Senatus Consultum



4. The Consuls shall by consular edictum specify the form that

accounting and provision of information as required at (2) shall take

and may amend that form by subsequent edicta, as well as further

define by consular edictum details of any other items, information or

action required that they deem necessary to provide full and

comprehensive disclosure by proDIIS of its activities.”



UTI ROGAS: 12

ANTIQUO: 3

ABSTINEO: 2



The result of voting is Item IX PASSED



*CEC: UTI ROGAS

*CnIC: UTI ROGAS

*LCSF: UTI ROGAS

*CPL: UTI ROGAS

*QSP: UTI ROGAS

*CVA: UTI ROGAS

*TiGP: UTI ROGAS

*CFD: UTI ROGAS

*PUSV: UTI ROGAS

*PMA: As no updated version of the text has been issued, I suppose that my
recommendations have not been considered as appropriate.

I am conscious that the poor writing of the SC of Dec., 2762, whose only
legally binding decision is to make of this sodalitas “an officially
promoted project and sodalitas of Nova Roma”, strongly reduces our legal
basis. I am also ready to believe that the working framework, goals and
means of the sodalitas ProDiis should be discussed again with it.

But, in such situation, the consuls should have first written the sodalitas
and ask its head(s) to produce the Senate reports and information ; for :
either our previous SC allow them to, and they do not need the present
proposal, or it does not, and they need to propose a new working frame
between the Republic and the sodalitas, what could have done have been the
subject of the present SC.

Last, in the present legal frame, both Novaroman or national one, our
Republic/corporation has no legal means to oblige a group whose status is,
in addition, not well defined by our own rules (see lex Cassia) to abide any
of our “instruction(s)”.

If my heart would invite me to abstain, the seriousness and dignitas of our
Senate bring me to vote, with sincere regret : ANTIQUO.

*QFM: We are in no postion to build any type of temple in the near future.
For the time being NR has no business in the temple building business. UTI
ROGAS

*MIP: ABSTINEO

*KFBM: UTI ROGAS

*CPD: UTI ROGAS

*ATS: Well, to me quibbling about where a temple is to be built is less
important than that it is to be built. If the donations are not being
diverted, but are being used for a temple in Sarmatia, non sollicitor. It
is a matter of procedure. The probability of any temple being built in Rome
seems about as likely as that I will be chosen by NASA to lead an FTL flight
to P Cen. ANTIQUO

*DIuPI: ABSTINEO

*TIS: There is not any communication with the Sodalitas to fix things but an
abrupt decision to end it. The same: with regret I must say that NR is not
able to sustain, develop or adapt any complex project whatever the project
is. ANTIQUO



Di vos incolumes custodiant.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem III Nonas Februarius; hic dies nefastus est.


"Many military exploits are related of him, but the greatest are those
which I shall now narrate, beginning with the war against the Albans.
The man responsible for the quarrel between the two cities and the
severing of their bond of kinship was an Alban named Cluilius, who had
been honoured with the chief magistracy; this man, vexed at the
prosperity of the Romans and unable to contain his envy, and being by
nature headstrong and somewhat inclined to madness, resolved to
involve the cities in war with each other. But not seeing how he
could persuade the Albans to permit him to lead an army against the
Romans without just and urgent reasons, he contrived a plan of the
following sort: he permitted the poorest and boldest of the Albans to
pillage the fields of the Romans, promising them immunity, and so
caused many to overrun the neighbouring territory in a series of
plundering raids, as they would now be pursuing without danger gains
from which they would never desist even under the constraint of fear.
In doing this he was following a very natural line of reasoning, as
the event bore witness. For he assumed that the Romans would not
submit to being plundered but would rush to arms, and he would thus
have an opportunity of accusing them to his people as the aggressors
in the war; and he also believed that the majority of the Albans,
envying the prosperity of their colony, would gladly listen to these
false accusations and would begin war against the Romans. And that is
just what happened. For when the worst elements of each city fell to
robbing and plundering each other and at last a Roman army made an
incursion into the territory of the Albans and killed or took prisoner
many of the bandits, Cluilius assembled the people and inveighed
against the Romans at great length, showed them many who were wounded,
produced the relations of those who had been seized or slain, and at
the same time added other circumstances of his own invention;
whereupon it was voted on his motion to send an embassy first of all
to demand satisfaction for what had happened, and then, if the Romans
refused it, to begin war against them." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus,
Roman Antiquities 3.2



"Trembling with fear, Arion said: `I don't plead for life,
But let me take up my lyre and play a little.'
They granted it, laughing at the delay. He took the wreath
That might have graced your tresses, Phoebus:
Put on his robe, twice-stained with Tyrian purple:
And, plucked by his thumb, the strings gave out their music,
Such a melody as the swan's mournful measures,
When the cruel shaft has transfixed its brow.
At once, he plunged, fully clothed into the waves:
The water, leaping, splashed the sky-blue stern.
Then (beyond belief) they say a dolphin
Yielded its back to the unaccustomed weight.
Sitting there, Arion gripped the lyre, and paid his fare
In song, soothing the ocean waves with his singing.
The gods see good deeds: Jupiter took the dolphin
And ordered its constellation to contain nine stars." - Ovid, Fasti
II: 3 February

"Then was there heard a most celestial sound
Of dainty music which did next ensue,
And, on the floating waters as enthroned,
Arion with his harp unto him drew
The ears and hearts of all that goodly crew;
Even when as yet the dolphin which him bore
Through the Aegean Seas from pirates' view,
Stood still, by him astonished at his love,
And all the raging seas for joy forgot to roar." - Edmund Spenser

Arion was a musician from the court of King Periander of Corinth;
sources indicate that the two may have also been lovers. Against
Periander's wishes, Arion decided to enter a musical contest in
Sicily. He won, and was returning home by ship with his prize, when
the sailors on the ship decided that they could put his winnings to
better use than he could. Afraid of the wrath of Periander, however,
they were reluctant to actually kill him; instead, they ordered him to
jump off the ship in the middle of the ocean. His last request was to
play his lyre before he leaped to a watery grave, and the sailors
allowed it.

Arion's playing was the most beautiful music ever heard on earth, in
heaven, or under the earth; it was so beautiful that it drew a school
of dolphins to the side of the ship, and they leapt and played in the
ship's wake. Upon finishing, Arion threw himself overboard --- only
to be picked up by a dolphin and carried, on its back, to safety. He
made it back to Corinth and Periander, the sailors' wickedness was
exposed (they were banished forever), and the dolphin was rewarded by
being placed among the celestial bodies by Iuppiter to mark its
kindness forever.

"Arion the Immortal" is also a character from DC Comics, but has
little or no relation to the Arion of the Greek story, as far as I know.


Valete bene!

Cato

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Now that the Senate report is published, I will announce that we have six positions in the quaestura open.

Since the calendar forbids appointments until a.d. XII Kal. Mar. (18 February), if you are interested in serving in the quaestura please send myself or my colleague Venator a message to that effect no later than pridie Id. Feb. (12 February).

There is a great deal of work to be done and the quaestura will be an integral part of that work, so I encourage all qualified citizens to consider it.

Valete,

Cato

Salvente Omnes;

On Thu, Feb 3, 2011 at 8:38 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>
> Now that the Senate report is published, I will announce that we have six positions in the quaestura open.
>
> Since the calendar forbids appointments until a.d. XII Kal. Mar. (18 February), if you are interested in serving in the quaestura please send myself or my colleague Venator a message to that effect no later than pridie Id. Feb. (12 February).
>
> There is a great deal of work to be done and the quaestura will be an integral part of that work, so I encourage all qualified citizens to consider it.
>
> Valete,
>
> Cato
>

Please remember to read the Tabularium in regards to the extent of the
office and duties, also.

Here's a start:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Quaestor
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Quaestor_overview
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Quaestor_(Nova_Roma)

I held this office 3 times and was very gratified by the working
relationship I had with the other magistrates.

This is a necessary function of both our government and state.

--
In amicitia et fide
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Consul, Civis et Poeta

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est pridie Nonas Februarius; hic dies nefastus est.

"Upon the arrival of the ambassadors at Rome, Tullius, suspecting that
they had come to demand satisfaction, resolved to anticipate them in
doing this, since he wished to turn upon the Albans the blame for
breaking the compact between them and their colony. For there existed
a treaty between the two cities which had been made in the reign of
Romulus, wherein, among other articles, it was stipulated that neither
of them should begin a war, but if either complained of any injury
whatsoever, that city would demand satisfaction from the city which
had done the injury, and failing to obtain it, should then make war as
a matter of necessity, the treaty being looked upon as already broken.
Tullius, therefore, taking care that the Romans should not be the
first called upon to give satisfaction and, by refusing it, become
guilty in the eyes of the Albans, ordered the most distinguished of
his friends to entertain the ambassadors of the Albans with every
courtesy and to detain them inside their homes while he himself,
pretending to be occupied with some necessary business, put off their
audience. The following night he sent to Alba some Romans of
distinction, duly instructed as to the course they should pursue,
together with the fetiales, to demand satisfaction from the Albans for
the injuries the Romans had received. These, having performed their
journey before sunrise, found Cluilius in the market-place at the time
when the early morning crowd was gathered there. And having set forth
the injuries which the Romans had received at the hands of the Albans,
they demanded that he should act in conformity with the compact
between the cities. But Cluilius, alleging that the Albans had been
first in sending envoys to Rome to demand satisfaction and had not
even been vouchsafed an answer, ordered the Romans to depart, on the
ground that they had violated the terms of the treaty, and declared
war against them. The chief of the embassy, however, as he was
departing, demanded from Cluilius an answer to just this one question,
namely, whether he admitted that those were violating the treaty who,
being the first called upon to give satisfaction, had refused to
comply with any part of their obligation. And when Cluilius said he
did, he exclaimed: 'Well, then, I call the gods, whom we made
witnesses of our treaty, to witness that the Romans, having been the
first to be refused satisfaction, will be undertaking a just war
against the violators of that treaty, and that it is you Albans who
have avoided giving satisfaction, as the events themselves show. For
you, being the first called upon for satisfaction, have refused it and
you have been the first to declare war against us. Look, therefore,
for vengeance to come upon you ere long with the sword.' Tullius,
having learned of all this from the ambassadors upon their return to
Rome, then ordered the Albans to be brought before him and to state
the reasons for their coming; and when they had delivered the message
entrusted to them by Cluilius and were threatening war in case they
did not obtain satisfaction, he replied: 'I have anticipated you in
doing this, and having obtained nothing that the treaty directs, I
declare against the Albans the war that is both necessary and just.'"
- Dionysius of Halicarnassus 3.2


February is dedicated to the god Mars and Iuno in her aspect as Iuno
Sospita. Mars was initially a god of springtime and fertility before
he was a god of war. The first god Romans (and Italians) recognised as
the chief of all the divinities, he was associated with Iuppiter (who
later became top god) and Quirinus. These three shared an ancient
sanctuary housed in the Regia in the Roman forum.

Although often associated with the Greek Ares, Mars is separate. Not a
bellacose bringer of war like Ares, Mars is instead the protector of
the Roman people, in agriculture as well as in war. Additionally, in
the Roman tradition Mars was conceived by the Queen of Heaven alone.
According to Ovid Mars was conceived by Iuno via a flower with fertile
properties which the goddess Flora obtained for her.

He was the protector of agriculture who lived in forests and
mountains. The first month of the Roman calendar, Martius, which
originally began on the vernal equinox, honored the god and marked the
annual return of life to the Earth, as this was the season for
planting crops. For a time Mars was both an agricultural and military
deity, thus symbolizing the duality of the Roman citizen as both
farmer and soldier. Eventually, Mars transferred his agricultural
duties to Ceres and Liber, and his chief concern became that of
protecting the Roman state in time of war, much as among mortals the
defense of the state passed out of the hands of a militia --
temporarily raised from the agrarian citizenry to meet an immediate
threat -- and instead became the responsibility of a huge standing
army of professional soldiers. As god of war Mars was accompanied by
the goddess Bellona.

The sacrarium of Mars stood on the Palatine Hill in the Roma Quadrata
of Romulus, and this is where his sacred spears and shields, the
symbolic armory of the Roman state, were kept. At first there was only
one shield, dropped from the sky by Mars to the second Roman king Numa
Pompilius as a token of his benevolence, but in order to insure
against theft or destruction, Numa had eleven identical shields made.
The twelve shields were then placed under the stewardship of the
Salii, a college of twelve priests created by Numa for that purpose.
The Salii ("jumpers"), who served both Quirinus and Mars, derived
their name from the procession through the streets of the city which
they completed by jumping the entire way and singing the Carmen
Saliare. Primitively the rites of the Salii were intended to protect
the growth of plants. Mars' own priest was called the flamen
Martialis. In the Regia on the Forum Romanum, the hastae Martiae
("lances of Mars") were kept. When these lances moved, it was seen as
a portent of war. Whenever war broke out, it was the consul's
ceremonial duty to shake the sacred spears and shout "Mars vigila!"
("Mars, wake up!").


Valete bene!

Cato

`

In a message dated 2/3/2011 6:38:07 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
catoinnyc@... writes:

if you are interested in serving in the quaestura please send myself or my
colleague Venator a message to that effect no later than pridie Id. Feb.
(12 February).

Q. Fabius SD
Salvete Consule

I would like to put my name forth.

Valete




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibusque in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est Nonis Februariis; hic dies nefastus est.

"Now I wish for a thousand tongues, and that spirit
Of yours, Homer, you who celebrated Achilles,
While I sing the sacred Nones in alternating verse." - Ovid, Fasti II

"After these pretences they both prepared themselves for war, not only
arming their own forces but also calling to their assistance those of
their subjects. And when they had everything ready the two armies drew
near to each other and encamped at the distance of forty stades from
Rome, the Albans at the Cluilian Ditches, as they are called (for they
still preserve the name of the man who constructed them) and the
Romans a little farther inside, having chosen the most convenient
place for their camp. When the two armies saw each other's forces
neither inferior in numbers nor poorly armed nor to be despised in
respect of their other preparations, they lost their impetuous ardour
for the combat, which they had felt at first because of their
expectation of defeating the enemy by their very onset, and they took
thought rather of defending themselves by building their ramparts to a
greater height than of being the first to attack. At the same time the
most intelligent among them began to reflect, feeling that they were
not being governed by the best counsels, and there was a spirit of
faultfinding against those in authority. And as the time dragged on
in vain (for they were not injuring one another to any notable extent
by sudden dashes of the light-armed troops or by skirmishes of the
horse), the man who was looked upon as responsible for the war,
Cluilius, being irked at lying idle, resolved to march out with his
army and challenge the enemy to battle, and if they declined it, to
attack their entrenchments. And having made his preparations for an
engagement and all the plans necessary for an attack upon the enemy's
ramparts, in case that should prove necessary, when night came on he
went to sleep in the general's tent, attended by his usual guard; but
about daybreak he was found dead, no signs appearing on his body
either of wounds, strangling, poison, or any other violent death." -
Dionysius of Halicarnassus 3.4


"The peacock made complaint to Juno that, while the nightingale
pleased every ear with his song, he himself no sooner opened his mouth
than he became a laughingstock to all who heard him. The Goddess, to
console him, said, "But you far excel in beauty and in size. The
splendor of the emerald shines in your neck and you unfold a tail
gorgeous with painted plumage." "But for what purpose have I," said
the bird, "this dumb beauty so long as I am surpassed in song?' "The
lot of each," replied Juno, "has been assigned by the will of the
Fates--to thee, beauty; to the eagle, strength; to the nightingale,
song; to the raven, favorable, and to the crow, unfavorable auguries.
These are all contented with the endowments allotted to them." - Aesop

Although February is dedicated to Mars, it is also dedicated to Iuno
Sospita, the Savior of the State and the special protectress of women
and children. Her temple in Rome was in the Forum Holitorium, and
hercult, that of Sospita (or "Sispes") was important in Lanuvium as
well. The cave where offerings were made is in Lanuvio, which is
about 40 km from Rome. The name Lanuvio is thought to be derived from
"the goddess covered in wool (lana)": girls offered barley-cakes to
the sacred snake in her grove, and if their offerings were accepted,
their virginity was confirmed and the year's fertility assured. She
wore a goat-skin headdress and carried a spear and a shield.


Valete bene!

Cato

C. Petronius Dexter omnibus Quiritibus s.p.d.,

The quaestorship, the first step of your future career, is not difficult and does not require to spend a lot of times, it is not a labour of Hercules, but is interesting for beginning the cursus honorum and to make friendly connections with other magistrates and create his own network of supporters. Roman citizens must be wolves with great ambitions for their city.

The gods of Nova Roma like the citizens whose the main virtue is to love and to serve the city.

I would prefer, as I said it into the Senate, quaestors elected by the comitia than appointed by the consuls, but as the appointment of the six quaestors left has passed after a Senate's vote, you just have to send your candidacy to our consuls.

Just do it!

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Nonis Februariis P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

Salvete


FYI

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/6669953/forget-mandarin-latin-is-the-key-to-success.thtml

Valete

Ti. Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

FYI



To: explorator@yahoogroups.com; BRITARCH@...
From: rogueclassicist@...
Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2011 15:11:34 -0500
Subject: [Explorator] explorator 13.42






================================================================
explorator 13.42 February 6, 2011
================================================================
Editor's note: Most urls should be active for at least eight
hours from the time of publication.

For your computer's protection, Explorator is sent in plain text
and NEVER has attachments. Be suspicious of any Explorator which
arrives otherwise!!!
================================================================
================================================================
Thanks to Arthur Shippee, Dave Sowdon,David Critchley, Helena Jaeschke
Diana Wright,Dorothy Lobel King,Donna Hurst, Edward Rockstein,
Rick Heli, Patrick Swan,Kurt Theis, Anthony Williams,
John McMahon, Barnea Selavan,Joseph Lauer, Barbara Saylor Rodgers,
Mike Ruggeri, Richard Campbell,Bob Heuman, Michael T. Stulac,
Rochelle Altman, Trevor Ogden,and Ross W. Sargent for headses upses
this week (as always hoping I have left no one out).

... we're sending this out a bit early this weekend because I'll
be finishing up report cards tomorrow prior to some major sporting
event ...
================================================================
CRISIS IN EGYPT
================================================================
... I figure this deserves a section of its own at this
particular time; we'll see if it's needed next week:

First, a few blogs which are keeping on top of things (almost on an hourly
basis):

http://egyptology.blogspot.com/
http://www.eloquentpeasant.com/
http://www.kv64.info/ (might have to scroll a bit through this one)
http://paul-barford.blogspot.com/ (ditto)

... and a Facebook page (Restore + Save the Egyptian Museum!):

http://www.facebook.com/home.php?sk=group_197921123555505&ap=1

... and a looting database:

http://egyptopaedia.com/2011/

Mary Beard's son sent out some dispatches about the general atmosphere:

http://timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/2011/01/cairo-riots-eye-witness-account.html
http://timesonline.typepad.com/dons_life/2011/02/live-from-cairo.html

No doubt folks are familiar with the early reports of damage to things
associated with Tut, e.g.:

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/01/28/5943271-archaeologists-assess-tut-tragedy
http://www.artinfo.com/news/story/36841/mummies-are-beheaded-and-museums-ransacked-amid-egypts-revolutionary-chaos/
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/01/pictures/110131-egyptian-museum-looted-artifacts-damaged-egypt-protests-mubarak/?now=2011-01-31-00:01
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/01/110131-egypt-egyptian-museum-zahi-hawass-mubarak-science-world-cairo-tombs/
http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/tut-family-mummies-damaged-in-egypt-riots.html
http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/egypts-tombs-temples-under-siege.html

Zahi Hawass (now Minister of Antiquities) has given the impression that
everything is 'just fine':

http://www.drhawass.com/blog/state-egyptian-antiquities-3-february-2011
http://www.livescience.com/culture/egypt-museum-cairo-110303.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-01-30/egyptian-antiquities-safe-after-museum-s-looting-official-says.html
http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/02/01/5967554-government-says-antiquities-are-safe

... but he's giving mixed messages in the press:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hzDtpsLDQuq03GDXOwb6_QBcMvNg?docId=CNG.5059cecfb0aba8394b7f8d99ed739f16.5e1
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/02/world/middleeast/02antiquities.html
http://abcnews.go.com/International/video/mummies-safe-egypt-12812079

... but clearly there were things happening at Saqqarah (and environs):

http://www.artsjournal.com/culturegrrl/2011/02/news_flash_detailed_report_abo_1.html
http://news.sciencemag.org/scienceinsider/2011/02/egypt-update-rare-tomb-may-have.html
http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/egypts-tombs-temples-under-siege.html

... and at the tombs of Neferefre and Sahure (not sure if this is lumped in
with the Saqqarah items):

http://www.tntmagazine.com/tnt-today/archive/2011/02/01/egypt-revolt-antiquities-in-danger.aspx

... and Qantara Museum:

http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptNews/idAFLDE70U0XN20110131

... and there was possibly another attempt at the Cairo Museum (I'm not sure
of the chronology of this
report):

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gwO71j6o3JQqrJOuDHmfO1yaLv3Q?docId=5811480

... and elsewhere:

http://www.lefigaro.fr/culture/2011/02/04/03004-20110204ARTFIG00656-les-archeologues-redoutent-de-nouveaux-pillages-en-egypte.php

... and Cleopatra-seeker Kathleen Martinez was suggesting otherwise too:

http://www.dominicantoday.com/dr/local/2011/2/4/38490/Dominican-Egyptologist-regrets-the-looting-of-antiquities

... and we're reading reports of several museums being looted:

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/fighting-raiders-of-ancient-history/story-fn6ccwsa-1226000503142

... and some sort of 'international alert' was sent out to watch for looted
items:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/02/us-britain-egypt-antiquities-idUSTRE7114YM20110202
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110202/sc_nm/us_britain_egypt_antiquities
http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Museums+high+alert+ancient+Egyptian+loot/4210925/story.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110202/lf_nm_life/us_finearts_egypt_antiquities_3
http://www.wbir.com/rss/article/155310/2/UTs-McClung-Museum-experts-keeping-eye-on-Egypt

... and UNESCO waded in:

http://af.reuters.com/article/egyptNews/idAFLDE71013C20110201

... so despite the assurances, other scholars seem to be adopting a 'wait
and see' attitude (these are all different; many
of the scholars have 'connections' to digs going on, of course):

http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/media/chaos-in-todays-egypt-sparks-worries-about-its-ancient-past/19828072/
(Laurel Bostock)
http://blogs.nationalgeographic.com/blogs/news/chiefeditor/2011/02/qa-with-dr-willeke-wendrich.html(Willeke
Wendrich)
http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/02/03/egypt%E2%80%99s-treasures-at-risk/
(Bob Brier)
http://www.telegram.com/article/20110203/NEWS/102030853/-1/NEWS04 (Donny
George; Alexandra Cleworth)
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/national_world&id=7936370(Carol
Redmount)
http://www.rnw.nl/english/bulletin/dutch-egyptologist-sounds-vandalism-alarm(Maarten
Raven)
http://www.unreportedheritagenews.com/2011/01/damage-reported-at-giza-pyramids.html(Gerry
Scott)

Still, we're getting some followup pieces that are giving some hope:

http://blogs.ngm.com/blog_central/2011/02/report-from-egypt-checking-out-the-tombs-at-saqqara.html

And in case you were wondering about the beheaded mummies mentioned last
weekend:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41433151/ns/technology_and_science-science/
http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/egypt-headless-mummies-identity-110204.html

Oddly, we didn't get many stories of evacuations of archaeological types
(that I saw, anyway):

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/02/uc-study-abroad-students-archeology-team-evacuated-from-egypt.html

Folks were protecting the Bibliotheca Alexandrina:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/feb/01/alexandria-youth-protecting-library

We're also getting the first of the oped pieces suggesting 'repatriation'
ideas from various
countries might not be the best idea after all:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703833204576114580200904212.html
================================================================
EARLY HUMANS
================================================================
Apparently we're faster than Neanderthals:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1353644/Achilles-heel-Reason-won-race-survival-Neanderthals-went-extinct.html
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20927984.700-youd-beat-a-neanderthal-in-a-race.html

... although there's still a bit of Neanderthal in all of us:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1352499/Modern-man-4-cent-Neanderthal-DNA-inside-him.html

Pondering the Denisovans:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/13.7/2011/02/03/133464424/leaky-replacement-human-neanderthal-and-denisovan-blends

More on an earlier departure from Africa:

http://www.jpost.com/Sci-Tech/Article.aspx?id=206056
================================================================
AFRICA
================================================================

================================================================
ANCIENT NEAR EAST AND EGYPT
================================================================
I think we mentioned this 16 500 years b.p. site at Uyun al-Hammam in the
context
of having a fox as part of the burial:

http://www.artsci.utoronto.ca/main/media-releases/anthropologists-discover-earliest-cemetery-in-middle-east
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2011/02/04/science-foxes-cemetery-banning.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110202132609.htm

A Byzantine church find might also be the site of the tomb of Zechariah:

http://www.antiquities.org.il/about_eng.asp?Modul_id=14
http://news.scotsman.com/world/Israel-Tomb-raiders-lead-officials.6709597.jp
http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=44672
http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/zechariah-tomb-old-testament-110203.html
http://www.upi.com/News_Photos/Features/Archeological-Excavations-in-Horbat-Midras-Israel/4566/(photos)
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/History/Early+History+-+Archaeology/Byzantine_church_mosaic_floor_Hirbet_Madras_2-Feb-2011.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1353003/Byzantine-church-discovered-near-Jerusalem-burial-place-prophet-Zechariah.html
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=133429116
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/02/israel-archeology-byzantine-mosaic-phrophet-zecharia
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/03/archaeologists-may-have-found-tomb-of-prophet-zechariah/
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Latest-News-Wires/2011/0203/1-500-year-old-church-discovered-by-archaeologists-in-Israel
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/18/20110202/tsc-church-unearthed-in-israel-may-hold-c2ff8aa.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/02/israel-old-church_n_817422.html
http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2011/02/02/17123266.html
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110202/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_israel_ancient_church

... while the discovery (it is claimed) of the Laodicea Church isn't getting
quite as much
attention:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=ancient-church-discovered-in-western-turkey-2011-01-31

Interview wit Leen Ritmeyer about the dimensions of the Temple:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Radio/News.aspx/2869

Ayyubid-era finds from Tel Ghweran (Syria):

http://www.english.globalarabnetwork.com/201101318825/Related-news-from-Syria/tel-ghweran-archaeological-findings-dating-back-to-ayyubid-period-in-north-eastern-syria.html

A pile of sites in Saudi Arabia identified via Google Earth:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/google/8303805/Google-Earth-finds-Saudi-Arabias-forbidden-archaeological-secrets.html
http://www.newkerala.com/news/world/fullnews-139510.html
http://www.businessinsider.com/google-earth-archaeology-2011-2
http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/onepercent/2011/02/giant-archaeological-trove-fou.html

Talking about Mesopotamian women:

http://unlvrebelyell.com/2011/02/03/forum-displays-history-of-mesopotamian-women/

Egyptology News Blog:

http://egyptology.blogspot.com/

Egyptology Blog:

http://www.egyptologyblog.co.uk/

Dr Leen Ritmeyer's Blog:

http://blog.ritmeyer.com/

Paleojudaica:

http://paleojudaica.blogspot.com/

Persepolis Fortification Archives:

http://persepolistablets.blogspot.com/

Archaeologist at Large:

http://spaces.msn.com/members/ArchaeologyinEgypt/
================================================================
ANCIENT GREECE AND ROME (AND CLASSICS)
================================================================
Restoration work continues on the Acropolis:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5haEDR92V5k7lbrFx76H2CCSr_taw?docId=CNG.5a73e88b2737221ddfdd9d4ecd2a1988.7b1

Philip Freeman on what Alexander the Great would do with Egypt right about
now:

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/article/20110203/OPINION01/102030335/Guest-opinion-What-would-Alexander-do-in-Egypt-today-?BUSINESS04

TellmeOmuse is an interesting project:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703652104576122182508638812.html

On the possible Syrian origins of the myth of Orion:

http://www.english.globalarabnetwork.com/201102018849/Travel/archaeologists-orion-the-hunter-greek-myth-born-in-syrian-mountain.html

J. Rufus Fears talks about democracy:

http://www.npr.org/2011/02/05/133520533/Different-Meanings-Of-Democracy-For-West-Middle-East

More on that Roman road found in Puddletown Forest:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1353574/Motorway-maximus-Unearthed-stunning-Roman-super-highway-built-1-900-years-ago.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1353574/Roman-road-Dorset-forest--1-900-years-constructed.html

On the utility of Latin:

http://www.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/6669953/forget-mandarin-latin-is-the-key-to-success.thtml

Feature on Mt Hymettus:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite4_25545_02/02/2011_370862

Didn't we have this medicine-from-a-shipwreck story a few months ago?:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/01/AR2011020100169.html
http://www.smh.com.au/world/shipwreck-gives-up-secrets-of-ancient-medicine-20110203-1affk.html

Not sure if this feature on one of the 'curves' in the Circus Maximus will
make it into English or not:

http://roma.repubblica.it/cronaca/2011/02/01/news/circo_massimo-11907048/

What Frederick Danker is up to:

http://www.christianchronicle.org/blog/2011/02/new-testament-scholar-danker-donates-extensive-library-to-heritage-christian-university/

What Susan Rotroff is up to:

http://news.brynmawr.edu/?p=7738

Stephen Margheim appears to be a rising star:

http://www.baylor.edu/pr/news.php?action=story&story=87928

... although they don't seem to get that at UMaine:

http://mainecampus.com/2011/01/31/petition-appeals-for-latin/

... while Howard has dropped its Classics major:

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2011/02/01/howard_university_spares_philosophy_and_african_studies_the_axe_but_guts_or_changes_71_others

The annual Roman numerals attempt at wit:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/03/AR2011020303182.html

... while Tom Payne puts a Greek/Roman spin on the Super Bowl:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=6076613

Nice followup story on the Tod-sponsoring-the-Colosseum thing:

http://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/No+Venice-style+mega-ads+on+the+Colosseum+during+its+sponsored+conservation/23017

Review/interview/podcast with Peter Stothard, *Spartacus Road*:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-04/rome-crucified-6-000-spartacus-led-slave-rebels-lewis-lapham.html

Review of Tom Payne's translation of Ovid's *Ars Amatoria*:

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/427b8534-2a63-11e0-804a-00144feab49a.html

Review of Matthew Dennison, *Livia, Empress of Rome*:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/04/AR2011020402997.html

More on efforts to restore the Olympias:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite6_10590_30/01/2011_375914
http://jacksonsun.com/article/20110130/NEWS01/110129013/1002/rss

Latest reviews from Scholia:

http://www.classics.ukzn.ac.za/reviews/

Latest reviews from BMCR:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/recent.html

Visit our blog:

http://rogueclassicism.com/
================================================================
EUROPE AND THE UK (+ Ireland)
================================================================
Another henge at Stonehenge:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-henge-stonehenge.html

The high density of hunter-gatherers in northern Europe slowed the influx of
farmers:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-02/f-sf-nhs020311.php

Vikings apparently had a thing for stone objects:

http://www.newsinenglish.no/2011/02/02/vikings-revered-stone-age-%E2%80%98antiques%E2%80%99/

... and a theory about their methods of navigation:

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110131/full/news.2011.58.html

Excitement over some Norwegian petroglyphs:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-norwegian-petroglyphs-beneath-burial-mounds.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/01/110131073133.htm

The 'bog girl' Moora is the latest to get the facial reconstruction
treatment:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2011/02/pictures/110202-ancient-bog-body-moora-girl-face-science-recreation/?now=2011-02-02-00:01

Possible Neolithic remains under a Guernsey park:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-guernsey-12334385

Remains of a Norman Cathedral from Bath Abbey:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-12299434

... and other things too!:

http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/news/New-discoveries-Bath-Abbey-dig/article-3172716-detail/article.html

Auckland Castle isn't for sale:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12322167

Slide show of assorted Capuchin mummyish things from Palermo:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/picturegalleries/8296522/Ghoulish-mummies-in-the-Capuchin-Catacombs-in-Palermo-Sicily.html

On Queen Victoria's stalker:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011/feb/01/queen-victoria-stalker-boy-jones

Archaeology in Europe Blog:

http://archaeology-in-europe.blogspot.com/

================================================================
ASIA AND THE SOUTH PACIFIC
================================================================
Latest DNA study looks at Polynesian origins:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110203124726.htm
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-02-genetic-uncovers-path-polynesia.html

Remains of what might be the world's oldest stage ... from India:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/rajkot/Will-Dholavira-ruins-rewrite-history-of-ancient-theatre/articleshow/7400422.cms

Remains of the so-called 'Wooden Great Wall":

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/china/2011-02/04/c_13718841.htm
http://www.asiapacificnews.net/story/740249

Not sure of how old the skeletons found near a Jaffna fort are (they sort of
sound recent):

http://www.jdslanka.org/2011/02/sri-lanka-archaeology-unearths.html

East Asian Archaeology:

http://eastasiablog.wordpress.com/2010/05/20/east-asian-archaeology-cultural-heritage-%E2%80%93-2052010/

Southeast Asian Archaeology Newsblog:

http://www.southeastasianarchaeology.com/

New Zealand Archaeology eNews:

http://www.nzarchaeology.org/netsubnews.htm
================================================================
NORTH AMERICA
================================================================
An update on Boston's Big Dig (didn't know it was still going on) ...
something brothel-related:

http://in.news.yahoo.com/archeologists-reveal-boston-brothel-secrets-20110203-022350-684.html

They've unearthed some chess pieces at James Madison's country estate:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=44698
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/8301887/James-Madison-chess-pieces-unearthed-at-US-estate.html

Looking for various aspects of the war-filled times of the Kayenta Anasazi:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/post.cfm?id=in-search-of-the-origins-of-warfare-2011-01-31

The Archdiocese of New Orleans has put up a database of slave baptisms:

http://www.patheos.com/community/deaconsbench/2011/02/01/history-archdiocese-posts-baptism-records-of-slaves-online/

There's still a WWI vet alive in the US (!):

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/01/frank-buckles-the-last-ww_n_817147.html

More on 19th-century New York brothel guides:

http://documents.nytimes.com/a-vest-pocket-guide-to-brothels-in-19th-century-new-york-for-gentlemen-on-the-go

More on those Lincoln document alteration accusations:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/25/us/25lincoln.html
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/a-blot-on-lincoln-historians/

================================================================
CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA
================================================================
This week's tree-ring study connects droughts and rises and falls of
civilizations
in Mexico:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110203124816.htm
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1990917/new_drought_record_from_longlived_mexican_trees_may_illuminate_fates/index.html
http://www.agu.org/news/press/pr_archives/2011/2011-06.shtml

Eight 8000 years b.p. 'nomadic' archaeological sites from Baja:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=44671
http://www.inah.gob.mx/index.php/boletines/14-hallazgos/4849-descubren-nuevos-sitios-arqueologicos-en-bc
A Mochica temple and assorted tombs from Lambayeque:

http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=386017&CategoryId=13003

Mike Ruggeri's Ancient Americas Breaking News:

http://web.mac.com/michaelruggeri

Ancient MesoAmerica News:

http://ancient-mesoamerica-news-updates.blogspot.com/
================================================================
OTHER ITEMS OF INTEREST
================================================================
Time Magazine has a feature on the 'Top 25 Political Icons':

http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2046285_2045996_2045906,00.html

... while elsewhere we have a list of the 10 most powerful women in history:

http://listverse.com/2008/10/02/top-10-most-powerful-women-in-history/

... and a list of five famous philosophers greatest hypocrises:

http://www.slate.com/BLOGS/blogs/browbeat/archive/2011/01/31/5-famous-philosophers-greatest-hypocrisies.aspx

Another day ... another theory about the Mona Lisa (this is getting kind of
tiresome):

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=44665
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20110203/twl-da-vinci-s-mona-lisa-model-was-a-man-3fd0ae9.html
http://www.timesunion.com/entertainment/article/Male-model-behind-the-Mona-Lisa-expert-claims-991587.php

Legislation in the UK is forcing reburial of human remains:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2011/feb/04/archaeologists-forced-to-rebury-finds?INTCMP=SRCH
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1353620/Law-requiring-reburial-ancient-remains-threatens-future-archaeology.html

On the history of encyclopedias:

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/features/knowledge-through-the-pages-the-evolution-of-encyclopedias-2203767.html

Solving a mystery of Chopin's sojourn in Majorca:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/8296219/Row-over-Chopins-Majorcan-residence-solved-by-piano.html

... and more on the idea that he had epilepsy:

http://www.classical-music.com/news/chopin-may-have-had-epilepsy

A couple of Notre Dame profs have received NEH grants:

http://www.ndsmcobserver.com/news/professors-receive-fellowships-1.1956421

On the possibility that Humanities are an endangered species:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-02-humanities-america-endangered-species.html

Some dirty ditties apparently explain the popularity of an 18th century book
... go figure:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-02-hidden-pornographic-poems-bestseller-success.html

On nonsense and natural history:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/the-brittle-stars-danced-the-stingray-smoked-a-pipe/

On links between music and spirituality:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-01-music-spirituality-legacies-motherese-expert.html
================================================================
TOURISTY THINGS
================================================================
Palmyra:

http://www.hellomagazine.com/travel/201102024881/ancient-ruins/palmyra/syria/1/
================================================================
BLOGS
================================================================
About.com Archaeology:

http://archaeology.about.com/

Archaeology Briefs:

http://archaeologybriefs.blogspot.com/

Taygete Atlantis excavations blogs aggregator:

http://planet.atlantides.org/taygete/

Time Machine:

http://heatherpringle.wordpress.com/

================================================================
GENERAL MAGAZINES AND JOURNALS
================================================================
Atiqot 65:

http://www.atiqot.org.il/

AJA Reviews:

http://www.ajaonline.org/index.php?ptype=oreview

================================================================
CRIME BEAT
================================================================
Jewish artifacts stolen from a synagogue in Milan:

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90782/90873/7280305.html

Second Temple coins and jugs found during a weapons search in Galilee:

http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=206567
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/142125

Icons stolen from a Paphos church:

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/crime/valuable-icons-stolen-paphos-church/20110205

Looting Matters:

http://lootingmatters.blogspot.com/

Illicit Cultural Property:

http://illicit-cultural-property.blogspot.com/
================================================================
NUMISMATICA
================================================================
Not sure if I mentioned attempts by a Somerset museum to keep the Frome
Hoard:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-12285254

Latest eSylum newsletter:

http://www.coinbooks.org/club_nbs_esylum_v14n05.html

Ancient Coin Collecting:

http://ancientcoincollecting.blogspot.com/

Ancient Coins:

http://classicalcoins.blogspot.com/

Coin Link:

http://www.coinlink.com/News/
================================================================
EXHIBITIONS, AUCTIONS, AND MUSEUM-RELATED
================================================================
Everyone is going gaga at Google's Art Project:

http://www.googleartproject.com/

Septimius Severus:

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/leisure/exhibitions/8826893.New_exhibition_about_Roman_Emperor_Septimius_Severus_at_the_Yorkshire_Museum/
http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8833444.Bust_of_Roman_Emperor_unveiled/

Alexander the Great:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2011/feb/02/macedonia-exhibition-alexander-the-great

Poetry of Drawing:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/art-reviews/8293832/The-Poetry-of-Drawing-Birmingham-Museum-and-Art-Gallery-review.html

A couple of Titians are on tour of the US:

http://www.npr.org/2011/02/03/133441944/two-titian-masterpieces-traveling-through-u-s

Strange goings-on in relation to the Silk Road exhibition coming to UPenn:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1353962/Museum-exhibition-pulled-Chinese-travel-ban-4-000-year-old-mummy.html
http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=44659
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/02/china-bowers-museum-mummies-.html
http://articles.philly.com/2011-02-03/news/27099058_1_victor-mair-penn-museum-burial-trappings
http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory?id=12821919
http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/02/02/china-asks-penn-museum-to-remove-all-artifacts-from-upcoming-show/
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/mystery-of-the-mummys-chinese-travel-ban-2205033.html
http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/02/02/arts/AP-US-China-Mummies-Dispute-.html

... while Iran is grumpy with the Louvre:

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/afp_world/view/1108046/1/.html

Big hopes for a Ming vase coming to auction:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2011/feb/02/ming-vase-auction-dorchester

More on the Pergamon Museum's reconstructions:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/30/uk-germany-museum-artefacts-idUKLNE70T00G20110130

================================================================
PERFORMANCES AND THEATRE-RELATED
================================================================
Antigona and Danae (two different things):

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/02/arts/02iht-loomis02.html

Liszt:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/arts/music/31fred.html

What the Public Wants:

http://theater.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/theater/reviews/31what.html

Review of John Szwed, *Alan Lomax*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/books/31book.html
================================================================
ON THE WEB
================================================================
Teaching Resources for Ancient Assyria:

http://knp.prs.heacademy.ac.uk/teachingresources/
================================================================
OBITUARIES
================================================================
Richard M. Krill:

http://www.toledoblade.com/article/20110131/NEWS13/101310317/-1/rss

Andre Laronde:

http://blog.passion-histoire.net/?p=9089

Leon Knopoff:

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_17281713?source=rss

Ron Patterson:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/31/us/31patterson.html
================================================================
PODCASTS
================================================================
The Book and the Spade:

http://www.radioscribe.com/bknspade.htm

The Dig:

http://www.thedigradio.com/

Stone Pages Archaeology News:

http://news.stonepages.com/

Archaeologica Audio News:

http://www.archaeologychannel.org/AudioNews.asp

Naked Archaeology Podcast:

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/podcasts/archaeology/
================================================================
EXPLORATOR is a weekly newsletter representing the fruits of
the labours of 'media research division' of The Atrium. Various
on-line news and magazine sources are scoured for news of the
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete

I know there has been many reasons given for the Decline and Fall but I have a different question.

At one point in time there were millions of "Romans" At a later point there were none.

How and when did this happen?

Valete

Ti. Galerius Paulinus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VIII Idus Februarius; hic dies fastus aterque est.

"This unfortunate event appearing extraordinary to everybody, as one
would naturally expect, and the cause of it being enquired into — for
no preceding illness could be alleged — those who ascribed all human
fortunes to divine providence said that this death had been due to the
anger of the gods, because he had handled an unjust and unnecessary
war between the mother-city and her colony. But others, who looked
upon war as a profitable business and thought they had been deprived
of great gains, attributed the event to human treachery and envy,
accusing some of his fellow citizens of the opposing faction of having
made away with him by secret and untraceable poisons that they had
discovered. Still others alleged that, being overcome with grief and
despair, he had taken his own life, since all his plans were becoming
difficult and impracticable and none of the things that he had looked
forward to in the beginning when he first took hold of affairs was
succeeding according to his desire. But those who were not influenced
by either friendship or enmity for the general and based their
judgment of what had happened on the soundest grounds were of the
opinion that neither the anger of the gods nor the envy of the
opposing faction nor despair of his plans had put an end to his life,
but rather Nature's stern law and fate, when once he had finished the
destined course which is marked out for everyone that is born. Such,
then, was the end that Cluilius met, before he had performed any noble
deed. In his place Mettius Fufetius was chosen general by those in the
camp and invested with absolute power; he was a man without either
ability to conduct a war or constancy to preserve a peace, one who,
though he had been at first as zealous as any of the Albans in
creating strife between the two cities and for that reason had been
honoured with the command after the death of Cluilius, yet after he
had obtained it and perceived the many difficulties and embarrassments
with which the business was attended, no longer adhered to the same
plans, but resolved to delay and put off matters, since he observed
that not all the Albans now had the same ardour for war and also that
the victims, whenever he offered sacrifice concerning battle, were
unfavourable. And at last he even determined to invite the enemy to
an accommodation, taking the initiative himself in sending heralds,
after he had been informed of a danger from the outside which
threatened both the Albans and Romans, a danger which, if they did not
terminate their war with each other by a treaty, was unavoidable and
bound to destroy both armies." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus 3.5


"Ouranos came, bringing on night and longing for love, and he lay
about Gaia spreading himself full upon her. Then the son [Kronos] from
his ambush stretched forth his left hand and in his right took the
great long sickle with jagged teeth, and swiftly lopped off his own
father's members and cast them away to fall behind him ... and so soon
as he had cut off the members with flint and cast them from the land
into the surging sea, they were swept away over the main a long time:
and a white foam spread around them from the immortal flesh, and in it
there grew a maiden. First she drew near holy Kythera, and from there,
afterwards, she came to sea-girt Kypros, and came forth an awful and
lovely goddess, and grass grew up about her beneath her shapely feet.
Her gods and men call Aphrodite, and Aphrogeneia (the foam-born)
because she grew amid the foam, and Eustephanos (well-crowned or
girdled) Kythereia because she reached Kythera, and Kyprogenes because
she was born in billowy Kypros, and Philommeides (Genital-Loving)
because sprang from the members. And with her went Eros (Love), and
comely Himeros (Desire) followed her at her birth at the first and as
she went into the assembly of the gods. This honour she has from the
beginning, and this is the portion allotted to her amongst men and
undying gods, - the whisperings of maidens and smiles and deceits with
sweet delight and love and graciousness." - Hesiod, Theogony 176

"To Sea-set Kypros the moist breath of the western wind wafted her
[Aphrodite] over the waves of the loud-moaning sea in soft foam, and
there the gold-filleted Horai welcomed her joyously. They clothed her
with heavenly garments: on her head they put a fine, well-wrought
crown of gold, and in her pierced ears they hung ornaments of orichalc
and precious gold, and adorned her with golden necklaces over her soft
neck and snow-white breasts, jewels which the gold-filleted Horai wear
themselves whenever they go to their father's house to join the lovely
dances of the gods. And when they had fully decked her, they brought
her to the gods, who welcomed her when they saw her, giving her their
hands. Each one of them prayed that he might lead her home to be his
wedded wife, so greatly were they amazed at the beauty of
violet-crowned Kythereia." - Homeric Hymns 6 to Aphrodite

In ancient Greece, today was celebrated as the birth of Aphrodite,
known to the Romans as Venus. According to Hesiod (Theogony 188-198),
when Kronos had cut off his father's members, he tossed them into the
sea. The immortal flesh eventually spread into a circle of white
foam... from this foam, Aphrodite was created. Her name literally
means foam-born. She was attended by Eros and Himeros when she was
first born but when she stepped ashore on the island of Kypros she was
a "modest and lovely Goddess", since known as the Lady of Kypros. Her
gentle domain was intended to be "the sweetness of love" and "the
whispering of girls" but her adventures, and the adventures of her
children, caused as much misery and bloodshed as any of the immortals
--- except for Ares (Mars) and Athene (Athena), who thrived on warfare.

Aphrodite was born fully grown out of the foam, and as such is of an
older generation than Zeus. The Iliad (Book V) expresses another
version of her origin, by which she was considered a daughter of
Dione, who was the original oracular goddess ("Dione" being simply
"the goddess," etymologically an equivalent of "Diana") at Dodona. In
Homer, Aphrodite, venturing into battle to protect her son, Aeneas,
who has been wounded by Diomedes and returns to her mother, to sink
down at her knee and be comforted. "Dione" seems to be an equivalent
of Rhea, the Earth Mother, whom Homer has relocated to Olympus. After
this story, Aphrodite herself was sometimes referred to as "Dione".
Once Zeus had usurped the oak-grove oracle at Dodona, some poets made
him out to be the father of Aphrodite.

Aphrodite's chief center of worship remained at Paphos, on the
south-western coast of Cyprus, where the goddess of desire had long
been worshipped as Ishtar and Ashtaroth. It is said that she first
tentatively came ashore at Cytherea, a stopping place for trade and
culture between Crete and the Peloponesus. Thus perhaps we have hints
of the track of Aphrodite's original cult from the Levant to mainland
Greece. In Plato's Symposium the speech of Pausanias distinguishes
two manifestations of Aphrodite, represented by the two stories:
Aphrodite Ourania ("heavenly" Aphrodite), and Aphrodite Pandemos
("Common" Aphrodite). These two manifestations represented her role in
homosexuality and heterosexuality, respectively.

Venus was originally a vegetation goddess and patroness of gardens and
vineyards. Later, under Greek influence, she was equated with
Aphrodite and assumed many of her aspects. The oldest temple known of
Venus dates back to 293 B.C., and was inaugurated on August 18. Later,
on this date the Vinalia Rustica was observed. A second festival, that
of the Veneralia, was celebrated on April 1 in honor of Venus
Verticordia, who later became the protector against vice. Her temple
was built in 114 B.C. After the Roman defeat near Lake Trasum in 215
B.C., a temple was built on the Capitol for Venus Erycina. This temple
was officially opened on April 23, and a festival, the Vinalia Priora,
was instituted to celebrate the occasion.


Valete bene!

Cato

Salve!

I believe this has to do with the fall of the Roman Empire itself. It wasn't the people who disappeared, but the Roman identity. When the Roman Empire was still in existence, people considered themselves Romans regardless of which part of the empire they were from, just like we would associate ourselves with our countries nowadays. When the empire ceased to exist, people no longer identified themselves with Rome but the tribes they were divided into (Gauls, Goths, Franks - depending on which period you are looking at).

Good to know there're still plenty of Romans around today!

Vale bene!

L. Sempronia Sabina

Salvete!

What a delight it is to read that article. Glad to hear (or read) Professor Morgan speaking in defence of the Latin language!

Valete!

L. Sempronia Sabina

Salvete omnes,
how come that nobody on this list points out the obvious fact that there
were millions of people who called themselves Roman until 1453? That's when
Constantinople fell, and the Turks cancelled the national identity of the
local population.

Recently there was media hype about an archaic Greek dialect spoken on the
Black sea coast in Turkey. And, guess what? It's called Romeiki, which means
exactly "Roman" in Greek.

Valete,
Livia

----- Original Message -----
From: "Sempronia Sabina" <skyandwaves@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:10 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Fall of the Roman Empire




Salve!

I believe this has to do with the fall of the Roman Empire itself. It wasn't
the people who disappeared, but the Roman identity. When the Roman Empire
was still in existence, people considered themselves Romans regardless of
which part of the empire they were from, just like we would associate
ourselves with our countries nowadays. When the empire ceased to exist,
people no longer identified themselves with Rome but the tribes they were
divided into (Gauls, Goths, Franks - depending on which period you are
looking at).

Good to know there're still plenty of Romans around today!

Vale bene!

L. Sempronia Sabina

Salvete Livia et omnes!

It's true that inhabitants of the Eastern Roman Empire would probably have considered themselves as "Romans", but I doubt people in the western half of Europe would, as it was largely divided into different tribes since the fall of Romulus Augustus. The people under Charlemagne, for instance, are likely to have called themselves "Franks", and likewise people in the Ostrogothic Kingdom would have seen themselves as "Goths". They would hardly associate themselves with the people they had just defeated.

It's interesting how the Greeks saw their language as Roman. Do you know when this dialect is dated?

Valete!

L. Sempronia Sabina

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Sempronia Sabina" <skyandwaves@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete Livia et omnes!
>
> It's true that inhabitants of the Eastern Roman Empire would probably have considered themselves as "Romans", but I doubt people in the western half of Europe would, as it was largely divided into different tribes since the fall of Romulus Augustus.

Cassius respondit:

It would have been hard to deny the Eastern empire the status of being a legitimate continuation of the Roman Empire. The East remained basically intact from 330 until the 1200's when Constantinope was finally sacked by Western Crusaders. The Eastern Empire considered itself Roman right up to the final loss of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453. The Eastern Empire continued to have completely Latin administration until the 600's... long after the time of Romulus Augustulus.


Sempronia:
The people under Charlemagne, for instance, are likely to have called themselves "Franks", and likewise people in the Ostrogothic Kingdom would have seen themselves as "Goths". They would hardly associate themselves with the people they had just defeated.

Cassius:
The dream of Rome never completely died in the West... Charlemagne intentionally had himself declared "Emperor of Rome" which he knew would be an affront to the Roman Emperor still reigning in the East.

Sempronia:

> It's interesting how the Greeks saw their language as Roman. Do you know when this dialect is dated?
>

Cassius:
The Greeks did not see their language as Roman. Latin was the official administrative language in the East until the reign of Heracletus. After that Greek became the dominant language since it was the basic language of the Eastern provinces.

This partiuclar dialect is interesting... it may be a continuation of the Classical Latin originally spoken in the Eastern Empire. Probably more likely it is a continuation of the Latin brought back by the Latin States which were set up in Greek territory during the Second Crusade...

I would recommend the book "Lost to the West" by Lars Brownworth for an enjoyable introduction to the Byzantine Empire. It's a great read!

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

Just a correction. There was no Eastern Roman Emperor in 800 ce. Irene was
Empress. In the eyes of both the Pope and Charlemagne (Charles the Great).
there was no emperor thus they felt he could simply usurp the title. This
essentially started the cold war between the Franks and the Eastern Romans
that did not really end until the Pax Nichphori in 803 ce.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Sun, Feb 6, 2011 at 7:27 PM, William <cassius622@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Sempronia Sabina" <skyandwaves@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete Livia et omnes!
> >
> > It's true that inhabitants of the Eastern Roman Empire would probably
> have considered themselves as "Romans", but I doubt people in the western
> half of Europe would, as it was largely divided into different tribes since
> the fall of Romulus Augustus.
>
> Cassius respondit:
>
> It would have been hard to deny the Eastern empire the status of being a
> legitimate continuation of the Roman Empire. The East remained basically
> intact from 330 until the 1200's when Constantinope was finally sacked by
> Western Crusaders. The Eastern Empire considered itself Roman right up to
> the final loss of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453. The Eastern Empire
> continued to have completely Latin administration until the 600's... long
> after the time of Romulus Augustulus.
>
> Sempronia:
> The people under Charlemagne, for instance, are likely to have called
> themselves "Franks", and likewise people in the Ostrogothic Kingdom would
> have seen themselves as "Goths". They would hardly associate themselves with
> the people they had just defeated.
>
> Cassius:
> The dream of Rome never completely died in the West... Charlemagne
> intentionally had himself declared "Emperor of Rome" which he knew would be
> an affront to the Roman Emperor still reigning in the East.
>
> Sempronia:
>
> > It's interesting how the Greeks saw their language as Roman. Do you know
> when this dialect is dated?
> >
> Cassius:
> The Greeks did not see their language as Roman. Latin was the official
> administrative language in the East until the reign of Heracletus. After
> that Greek became the dominant language since it was the basic language of
> the Eastern provinces.
>
> This partiuclar dialect is interesting... it may be a continuation of the
> Classical Latin originally spoken in the Eastern Empire. Probably more
> likely it is a continuation of the Latin brought back by the Latin States
> which were set up in Greek territory during the Second Crusade...
>
> I would recommend the book "Lost to the West" by Lars Brownworth for an
> enjoyable introduction to the Byzantine Empire. It's a great read!
>
> Valete,
>
> Marcus Cassius Julianus
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Semproniae Sabinae Liviae Plautae omnibusque in foro SPD

Almost the entire world considered the Eastern Empire as "the Romans" - the Western provincial powers were given titles like "magister militum per Italiam" under the authority of the Roman Emperor. The Empire itself was referred to as "Imperium Romanorum" in Latin and "Basileia ton Rhomaion" in Greek, and the Persian and Islamic powers called it simply "Rum" ("Rome"). The inhabitants called themselves "Romans". In the words of Gil Page in "Being Byzantine: Greek Identity Before the Ottomans", they "overwhelmingly used the self-identifying term Rhomaios 'Roman'."

The single most important contrast to this was, of course (as Livia has mentioned), the Frankish kingdom; after Charlemagne's coronation - which horrified the Eastern Romans since there could only be one Emperor - in the words of Paul Foureacre and Richard Gerberding in "Late Merovingian France: History and Hagiography, 640-720": "The Frankish court no longer regarded the Byzantine Empire as holding valid claims of universality; instead it was now termed the 'Empire of the Greeks'." Of course, the Frankish kingdom disintegrated very soon after Charlemagne's death - the Eastern Empire continued on for another 600 years.

The Goths were different; although they did identify themselves as non-Romans (they considered themselves foederati), they identified the Eastern Empire as the Roman Empire, and held authority in Italy quite specifically as vassals of the Empire - Theodoric the Great was actually named consul in AD 484. He wrote to Anastasius in Constantinople:

"It behooves us, most clement Emperor, to seek for peace, since there are no causes for anger between us. [...] Our royalty is an imitation of yours, modeled on your good purpose, a copy of the only Empire; and insofar as we follow you do we excel all other nations. Often you have exhorted me to love the senate, to accept cordially the laws of past emperors, to join together in one all the members of Italy. [...] There is moreover that noble sentiment, love for the city of Rome, from which two princes, both of whom govern in her name, should never be disjoined." - Letter of Theodoric to Anastasius, from Cassiodorus, Variae I.1

It was only in AD 1557 that the use of "Byzantine" began, and only very haphazardly, until the 19th century, when the Eastern Empire became the victim of the kind of denigration and demotion that has left it, quite unfairly, as a little-understood part of history.

Valete,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Sempronia Sabina" <skyandwaves@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Livia et omnes!
>
> It's true that inhabitants of the Eastern Roman Empire would probably have considered themselves as "Romans", but I doubt people in the western half of Europe would, as it was largely divided into different tribes since the fall of Romulus Augustus. The people under Charlemagne, for instance, are likely to have called themselves "Franks", and likewise people in the Ostrogothic Kingdom would have seen themselves as "Goths". They would hardly associate themselves with the people they had just defeated.
>
> It's interesting how the Greeks saw their language as Roman. Do you know when this dialect is dated?
>
> Valete!
>
> L. Sempronia Sabina
>

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VII Idus Februarius; hic dies nefastus est.

"The Veientes and Fidenates, who inhabited large and populous cities,
had in the reign of Romulus engaged in a war with the Romans for
command and sovereignty, and after losing many armies in the course of
the war and being punished by the loss of part of their territory,
they had been forced to become subjects of the conquerors; concerning
which I have given a precise account in the preceding Book. But
having enjoyed an uninterrupted peace during the reign of Numa
Pompilius, they had greatly increased in population, wealth and every
other form of prosperity. Elated, therefore, by these advantages, they
again aspired to freedom, assumed a bolder spirit and prepared to
yield obedience to the Romans no longer. For a time, indeed, their
intention of revolting remained undiscovered, but during the Alban war
it became manifest. For when they learned that the Romans had marched
out with all their forces to engaged the Albans, they thought that
they had now got the most favourable opportunity for their attack, and
through their most influential men they entered into a secret
conspiracy. It was arranged that all who were capable of bearing arms
should assemble in Fidenae, going secretly, a few at a time, so as to
escape as far as possible the notice of to against whom the plot was
aimed, and should remain there awaiting the moment when the armies of
the Romans and Albans should quit their camps and march out to battle,
the actual time to be indicated to them by means of signals given by
some scouts posted on the mountains; and as soon as the signals were
raised they were all to take arms and advance in haste against the
combatants (the road leading from Fidenae to the camps was not a long
one, but only a march of two or three hours at most), and appearing on
the battlefield at the time when presumably the conflict would be
over, they were to regard neither side as friends, but whether the
Romans or the Albans had won, were to slay the victors. This was the
plan of action on which the chiefs of those cities had determined.
If, therefore, the Albans, in their contempt for the Romans, had
rushed more boldly into an engagement and had resolved to stake
everything upon the issue of a single battle, nothing could have
hindered the treachery contrived against them from remaining secret
and both their armies from being destroyed. But as it was, their delay
in beginning war, contrary to all expectations, and the length of time
they employed in making their preparations were bringing their foes'
plans to nought. For some of the conspirators, either seeking to
compass their private advantage or envying their leaders and those who
had been the authors of the undertaking or fearing that others might
lay information — a thing which has often happened in conspiracies
where there are many accomplices and the execution is long delayed —
or being compelled by the will of Heaven, which could not consent that
a wicked design should meet with success, informed their enemies of
the treachery." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus 3.6



"Muses, sweet-speaking daughters of Zeus Kronides and mistresses of
song, sing next of long-winged Moon! From her immortal head a
heaven-sent glow envelops the earth and great beauty arises under its
radiance. From her golden crown the dim air is made to glitter as her
rays turn night to noon, whenever bright Selene, having bathed her
beautiful skin in the Ocean, put on her shining rainment and harnessed
her proud-necked and glittering steeds, swiftly drives them on as
their manes play with the evening, dividing the months. Her great
orbit is full and as she waxes a most brilliant light appears in the
sky. Thus to mortals she is a sign and a token." - Homer, Hymn to Selene 2

In ancient Greece, today was dedicated to the goddess Selene. She
represents the full moon phase of the lunar cycle, along with Artemis
(the crescent new moon) and Hecate (the waning moon). Like her brother
Helius, she drives a chariot through the sky each night; hers is
usually drawn by two horses. By Zeus, she is the mother of Pandia
(All-bright) and Ersa (Dew). By Endymion, she is the mother of fifty
daughters, who represent the fifty lunar months that elapse between
each Olympiad. The days of the full and new moon were set aside for
her worship. Endymion was a beautiful shepherd boy of Asia Minor, the
mortal lover of the moon goddess Selene. Each night he was kissed to
sleep by her. She begged Zeus to grant him eternal life so she might
be able to embrace him forever. Endymion was allowed to choose what
he would, and he chose to sleep for ever, remaining deathless and
ageless. Zeus granted his wish. Every night Selene visits him on Mt.
Latmus.

In Rome, Luna ("moon") had a temple on the Aventine Hill. It was built
in the 6th century B.C. but was destroyed in the Great Fire of Rome
under Nero.


Valete bene!

Cato

Salvete omnes,
I'm glad that Cato set facts straight about the Byzantine empire.

Not much is known about the Romeiki dialect. The media hyped it by saying it
is "Jason's dialect", because it is spoken in the area Jason and the
Argonauts come from. I was not able to find any information on it except the
name.
The name, however, is sufficient to deduce that, while it may be an archaic
Greek dialect, it is not as archaic as that.
I don't know exactly when the diphtongue "ai" started to be pronounced as
"e", but it was certainly some centuries after Christ.
So the Byzantinians called themselves "Romaioi", and at some point in their
history they pronounced it as "Romei", because the "oi" diphtongue also
collapsed into an "i" vowel.

Please note that all the pronounciations above are written according to
normal phonetic pronounciation. I don't know how to spell vowels and
diphtongues so that non-linguistically trained native English speakers can
guess how to pronounce them as normal humans do.

Optime valete,
Livia


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Sempronia Sabina" <skyandwaves@...>
wrote:

>
> Salvete Livia et omnes!
>
> It's true that inhabitants of the Eastern Roman Empire would probably have
> considered themselves as "Romans", but I doubt people in the western half
> of Europe would, as it was largely divided into different tribes since the
> fall of Romulus Augustus.

Cassius respondit:

It would have been hard to deny the Eastern empire the status of being a
legitimate continuation of the Roman Empire. The East remained basically
intact from 330 until the 1200's when Constantinope was finally sacked by
Western Crusaders. The Eastern Empire considered itself Roman right up to
the final loss of Constantinople to the Turks in 1453. The Eastern Empire
continued to have completely Latin administration until the 600's... long
after the time of Romulus Augustulus.


Sempronia:
The people under Charlemagne, for instance, are likely to have called
themselves "Franks", and likewise people in the Ostrogothic Kingdom would
have seen themselves as "Goths". They would hardly associate themselves with
the people they had just defeated.

Cassius:
The dream of Rome never completely died in the West... Charlemagne
intentionally had himself declared "Emperor of Rome" which he knew would be
an affront to the Roman Emperor still reigning in the East.

Sempronia:

> It's interesting how the Greeks saw their language as Roman. Do you know
> when this dialect is dated?
>

Cassius:
The Greeks did not see their language as Roman. Latin was the official
administrative language in the East until the reign of Heracletus. After
that Greek became the dominant language since it was the basic language of
the Eastern provinces.

This partiuclar dialect is interesting... it may be a continuation of the
Classical Latin originally spoken in the Eastern Empire. Probably more
likely it is a continuation of the Latin brought back by the Latin States
which were set up in Greek territory during the Second Crusade...

I would recommend the book "Lost to the West" by Lars Brownworth for an
enjoyable introduction to the Byzantine Empire. It's a great read!

Valete,

Marcus Cassius Julianus

Cato Cassio Iuliano omnibusque in foro SPD

One remark here, though...

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "William" <cassius622@...> wrote:
>

>
> Cassius:
> The dream of Rome never completely died in the West... Charlemagne intentionally had himself declared "Emperor of Rome" which he knew would be an affront to the Roman Emperor still reigning in the East.


Actually, Charlemagne did not have himself declared anything - it was Pope Leo III who, by pretty much all accounts, crowned Charlemagne without his previous knowledge (a stealth crowning?) as "Emperor of the Romans". Charlemagne himself was horrified, and his biographer Einhardt writes:

"at first [he] had such an aversion that he declared that he would not have set foot in the Church the day that they [the imperial titles] were conferred, although it was a great feast-day, if he could have foreseen the design of the Pope."

Charlemagne usually referred to himself as the "emperor ruling the Romans".

Valete!

Cato

In a message dated 2/7/2011 2:10:38 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
livia.plauta@... writes:

Romaioi"

Actually Livia it is still written Romaioi in the 13th century, how it was
pronounced is unknown, though your comment does hold merit.

Vale

Q. Fabius Maximus
(Byzantinist)

Sent from my Verizon BlackBerry.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VI Idus Februarius; hic dies nefastus est.

"These were the reasons urged by the two generals to support the
pretensions of their respective cities to the supremacy; and the
outcome of the discussion was the adoption of the plan Tullius
proposed. For both the Albans and Romans who were present at the
conference, in their desire to put a speedy end to the war, resolved
to decide the controversy by arms. This also being agreed to, the
question arose concerning the number of the combatants, since the two
generals were not of the same mind. For Tullius desired that the
fate of the war might be decided by the smallest possible number of
combatants, the most distinguished man among the Albans fighting the
bravest of the Romans in single combat, and he cheerfully offered
himself to fight for his own country, inviting the Alban leader to
emulate him. He pointed out that for those who have assumed the
command of armies combats for sovereignty and power are glorious, not
only when they conquer brave men, but also when they are conquered by
the brave; and he enumerated all the generals and kings who had risked
their lives for their country, regarding it as a reproach to them to
have a greater share of the honours than others but a smaller share of
the dangers. The Alban, however, while approving of the proposal to
commit the fate of the cities to a few champions, would not agree to
decide it by single combat. He owned that when commanders of the
armies were seeking to establish their own power a combat between them
for the supremacy was noble and necessary, but when states themselves
were contending for the first place he thought the risk of single
combat not only hazardous but even dishonourable, whether they met
with good or ill fortune. And he proposed that three chosen men
p55from each city should fight in the presence of all the Albans and
Romans, declaring that this was the most suitable number for deciding
any matter in controversy, as containing in itself a beginning, a
middle and an end. This proposal meeting with the approval of both
Romans and Albans, the conference broke up and each side returned to
its own camp.

After this the generals assembled their respective armies and gave
them an account both of what they had said to each other and of the
terms upon which they had agreed to put an end to the war. And both
armies having with great approbation ratified the agreement entered
into by their generals, there arose a wonderful emulation among the
officers and soldiers alike, since a great many were eager to carry
off the prize of valour in the combat and expressed their emulation
not only by their words but also by their actions, so that their
leaders found great difficulty in selecting the most suitable
champions. For if anyone was renowned for his illustrious ancestry or
remarkable for his strength of body, famous for some brave dee in
action, or distinguished by some other good fortune or bold
achievement, he insisted upon being chosen first among the three
champions. This emulation, which was running to great lengths in both
armies, was checked by the Alban general, who called to mind that some
divine providence, long since foreseeing this conflict between the two
cities, had arranged that their future champions should be sprung of
no obscure families and should be brave in arms, most comely in
appearance, and distinguished from the generality of mankind by their
birth, which should be unusual and wonderful because of its
extraordinary nature. 4It seems that Sicinius, an Alban, had at one
and the same time married his twin daughters to Horatius, a Roman, and
to Curiatius, an Alban; and the two wives came with child at the same
time and each was brought to bed, at her first lying-in, of three male
children. The parents, looking upon the event as a happy omen both to
their cities and families, brought up all these children till they
arrived at manhood. And Heaven, as I said in the beginning, gave them
beauty and strength and nobility of mind, so that they were not
inferior to any of those most highly endowed by Nature. It was to
these men that Fufetius resolved to commit the combat for supremacy;
and having invited the Roman king to a conference, he addressed him as
follows..." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus 3.12-13


Valete bene!

Cato

Cn. Iulius Caesar praetor Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit.

Ex Officio Praetoris Nova Roma:

PRAETORIAL EDICT CnIC 64-05: APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBES

I hereby appoint, with immediate effect, the following citizens as scribes to
the Officina Praetoris. No oath is required of them. Their duties will include,
but not necessarily be limited to, moderation of the forum of the res publica
(aka The Main List) and Forum Hospitum.

-----------
Gaia Maria Caeca
Lucius Cornelius Cicero
------------

Optime valete

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem V Idus Februarius; hic dies nefastus est.

"[Fufetius speaks] 'Tullius, some god who keeps watch over both our
cities would seem, just as upon many other occasions, so especially in
what relates to this combat to have made his goodwill manifest. For
that the champions who are to fight on behalf of all their people
should be found inferior to none in birth, brave in arms, most comely
in appearance, and that they should furthermore have been born of one
father and mother, and, most wonderful of all, that they should have
come p59into the world on the same day, the Horatii with you and the
Curiatii with us, all this, I say, has every appearance of a
remarkable instance of divine favour. Why, therefore, do we not
accept this great providence of the god and each of us invite the
triplets on his side to engage in the combat for the supremacy? For
not only all the other advantages which we could desire in the
best-qualified champions are to be found in these men, but, as they
are brothers, they will be more unwilling than any others among either
the Romans or the Albans to forsake their companions when in distress;
and furthermore, the emulation of the other youths, which cannot
easily be appeased in any other way, will be promptly settled. For I
surmise that among you also, as well as among the Albans, there is a
kind of strife among many of those who lay claim to bravery; but if we
inform them that some providential fortune has anticipated all human
efforts and has itself furnished us with champions qualified to engage
upon equal terms in the cause of the cities, we shall easily persuade
them to desist. For they will then look upon themselves as inferior to
the triplets, not in point of bravery, but only in respect of a
special boon of Nature and of the favour of a Chance that is equally
inclined toward both sides.'" - Dionysius of Halicarnassus 3.14


"I will remember and not be unmindful of Apollo who shoots afar. As he
goes through the house of Zeus, the gods tremble before him and all
spring up from their seats when he draws near, as he bends his bright
bow. But Leto alone stays by the side of Zeus who delights in thunder;
and then she unstrings his bow, and closes his quiver, and takes his
archery from his strong shoulders in her hands and hangs them on a
golden peg against a pillar of his father's house. Then she leads him
to a seat and makes him sit: and the Father gives him nectar in a
golden cup welcoming his dear son, while the other gods make him sit
down there, and queenly Leto rejoices because she bare a mighty son
and an archer. Rejoice, blessed Leto, for you bare glorious children,
the lord Apollo and Artemis who delights in arrows; her in Ortygia,
and him in rocky Delos, as you rested against the great mass of the
Cynthian hill hard by a palm-tree by the streams of Inopus." - Homer,
Hymn to the Delian Apollo

In ancient Greece, today was dedicated to Apollo. The son of Zeus and
Leto, and the twin brother of Artemis. Apollo was the god of music
(principally the lyre, and he directed the choir of the Muses) and
also of prophecy, colonization, medicine, archery (but not for war or
hunting), poetry, dance, intellectual inquiry and the carer of herds
and flocks. He was also a god of light, known as "Phoebus" (radiant or
beaming, and he was sometimes identified with Helios the sun god). He
was also the god of plague and was worshiped as Smintheus (from
sminthos, rat) and as Parnopius (from parnops, grasshopper) and was
known as the destroyer of rats and locust, and according to Homer's
Iliad, Apollo shot arrows of plague into the Greek camp. Apollo being
the god of religious healing would give those guilty of murder and
other immoral deeds a ritual purification. Sacred to Apollo are the
swan (one legend says that Apollo flew on the back of a swan to the
land of the Hyperboreans, he would spend the winter months among
them), the wolf and the dolphin. His attributes are the bow and
arrows, on his head a laurel crown, and the cithara (or lyre) and
plectrum. But his most famous attribute is the tripod, the symbol of
his prophetic powers.

When the goddesss Hera, the wife of Zeus (it was he who had coupled
with Leto) found out about Leto's pregnancy, she was outraged with
jealousy. Seeking revenge Hera forced Leto to roam the earth in search
of a place to give birth. Sicne Hera had forbidden Leto to stay
anywhere on earth, either on terra-ferma or an island at sea, the only
place to seek shelter was Delos, being in the center of the Aegean,
and also difficult to reach, as there were strong under-currents,
because it was said to be a floating island. Because it was a floating
island, it was not considered either of Hera's prohibitions, and so
Leto was able to give birth to the divine twins Apollo and Artemis
(before Leto gave birth to Apollo, the island was encircled by a flock
of swans, this is why the swan was sacred to him). As a gesture of
thanks Delos was secured to the sea-bed by four columns to give it
stability, and from then on it became one of the most important
sanctuaries to Apollo. (A variation of Apollo's birth was that the
jealous Hera had incarcerated Ilithyia, the goddess of childbirth, but
the other gods intervened forcing Hera to release Ilithyia, which
allowed Leto to give birth).

"I sprang upon the ship in the form of a dolphin, pray to me as Apollo
Delphinius; also the altar itself shall be called Delphinius ..." -
Homer, Hymn to the Pythian Apollo 493

Apollo's first achievement was to rid Pytho (Delphi) of the serpent
(or dragon) Python. This monstrous beast protected the sanctuary of
Pytho from its lair beside the Castalian Spring. There it stood guard
while the "Sibyl" gave out her prophecies as she inhaled the trance
inducing vapors from an open chasm. Apollo killed Python with his bow
and arrows (Homer wrote "he killed the fearsome dragon Python,
piercing it with his darts"). Apollo not only took charge of the
oracle but rid the neighboring countryside of widespread destruction,
as Python had destroyed crops, sacked villages and polluted streams
and springs. However, to make amends for killing Python, as the
fearsome beast was the son of Gaia, Apollo had to serve king Admetus
for nine years (in some versions eight) as a cowherd. This he did, and
when he returned to Pytho he came in the guise of a dolphin bringing
with him priests from Crete (Apollo's cult title "Delphinios" meaning
dolphin or porpoise, is probably how Delphi was so named). After
killing Python and taking possession of the oracle, the god of light
(Phobus) became known as "Pythian Apollo". He dedicated a bronze
tripod to the sanctuary and bestowed divine powers on one of the
priestesses, and she became known as the "Pythia". It was she who
inhaled the hallucinating vapors from the fissure in the temple floor,
while she sat on a tripod chewing laurel leaves. After she mumbled her
answer, a male priest would translate it for the supplicant. Delphi
became the most important oracle center of Apollo, there were several
including Clarus and Branchidae.

Apollo, as with Zeus his father, had many love affairs with goddesses
and mortals. Apollo's infatuation for the nymph Daphne, which had been
invoked by the young god of love Eros, because Apollo had mocked him,
saying his archery skills were pathetic, and Apollo's singing had also
irritated him. Daphne was the beautiful daughter of the river god
Ladon, and she was constantly pursued by Apollo. To escape from
Apollo's insistent behavior, she fled to the mountains, but the
persistent Apollo followed her. Annoyed by this, she asked the river
god Peneus for help, which he did. As soon as Apollo approached
Daphne, he tried to embrace her, but when he stretched out his arms
she transformed into a laurel tree. Apollo, distraught by what had
happened, made the laurel his sacred tree. Apollo also loved Cyrene,
she was another nymph, and she bore Apollo a son: Aristaeus, a
demi-god, who became a protector of cattle and fruit trees, and a
deity of hunting, husbandry and bee-keeping. He taught men dairy
skills and the use of nets and traps in hunting.

The most famous mortal loves of Apollo was Hecuba, she was the wife of
Priam, the king of Troy. She bore him Troilius. Foretold by an oracle,
as long as Troilius reached the age of twenty, Troy could not be
defeated. But the hero Achilles ambushed and killed him, when the
young prince and his sister Polyxena secretly visited a spring. Apollo
also fell in love with Cassandra, the sister of Troilius, and daughter
of Hecuba and Priam. He seduced Cassandra on the promise that he would
teach her the art of prophecy, but having learnt the prophetic art she
rejected him. Apollo, being angry of her rejection punished her, by
declaring her prophecies never to be accepted or believed.

Asclepius, the god of healing, was also Apollo's offspring, after his
union with Coronis, who was daughter of Phlegyas, king of the Lapiths.
While she was pregnant by Apollo, Coronis fell in love with Ischys,
son of Elatus, but a crow informed Apollo of the affair. Apollo sent
his twin sister Artemis to kill Coronis, and Artemis carried out he
brothers wishes. While her body was burning on the funeral pyre,
Apollo removed the unborn child, and took him to Chiron, who raised
the child Asclepius.

Apollo also, as did his father Zeus, fall in love with one of his own
gender, Hyacinthus, a Spartan prince. He was very handsome and
athletic, which inflamed the passions of Apollo. One day while Apollo
and Hyacinthus were practicing throwing the discus, Zephyrus, the god
of the west wind, who was also attracted to the young prince, and
jealous of Apollo's amorous affection towards the boy, made the discus
veer off course by blowing an ill wind. The discus, which Apollo had
thrown, hit Hyacinthus, smashing his skull. Apollo rushed to him, but
he was dead. The god was overcome with grief, but to immortalize the
love he had for the beautiful youth, he had a flower grow were his
blood had stained the earth. Apollo also loved the young boy
Cyparissus, a descendant of Heracles. The impassioned Apollo gave
Cyparissus a sacred deer, as a love token. The young deer became tame,
and was the constant companion of the boy, until a tragic accident
occurred. As the young deer lay sleeping in the shade of the
undergrowth, Cyparissus threw his javelin, which by chance hit, and
killed the deer. Grief-stricken by what had happened, Cyparissus
wanted to die. He asked Apollo to let his tears fall for all eternity.
With apprehension Apollo transformed the boy into a tree, the cypress,
which became the symbol of sorrow as the sap on its trunk forms
droplets like tears.

Apollo could also be ruthless when he was angered. The mortal Niobe,
boasted to Apollo's mother Leto, that she had fourteen children (in
some versions six or seven), which must make her more superior than
Leto, who had only bore two. Apollo greatly angered by this slew her
sons, and Artemis killed Niobe's daughters. Niobe wept so much that
she turned into a pillar of stone. Apollo was infuriated when the
satyr Marsyas challenged Apollo to music contest. After winning the
competition, Apollo had Marsyas flayed alive, for being so
presumptuous as to challenge a god.

Apollo was worshiped throughout the Greek world, and at Delphi every
four years they held the Pythian Games in his honor. He had many
epithets, including "Pythian Apollo" (his name at Delphi), "Apollo
Apotropaeus" (Apollo who averts evil), and "Apollo Nymphegetes"
(Apollo who looks after the Nymphs). As the god of shepherds he also
had the cult titles "Lukeios" (from lykos; wolf), protecting the
flocks from wolfs, and "Nomius" (of pastures, belonging to shepherds).
Being the god of colonists, Apollo influenced his priests at Delphi to
give divine guidance, as to where the expedition should proceed. This
was during the height of the colonizing era circa 750-550 BC.
Apollo's title was "Archigetes" (leader of colonists). According to
one legend, it was Apollo who helped either Cretan or Arcadian
colonists found the city of Troy.

Valete bene!

Cato

Salvete omnes

This look at Roman decorative art started from an interest in the frescoes from Campania (the area around Naples that includes Pompeii and Herculaneum. Though works recovered from the areas buried by the eruption of Vesuvius are key to our understanding, wall plaster from elsewhere in the Roman world, and modern re-creations, also help us understand and appreciate what the original artists tried to achieve.

Without the benefit of windows, many Roman dwellings, particularly tenements, were naturally dark, drab, colourless and depressing. Some apartments were small, perhaps with only one or two rooms, and with little or no outlook onto the surrounding area. What they needed was a good make-over. Anyone who has visited a Roman site may have been surprised at just how gaudy some of the paint effects were.

The art of fresco as practised in Classical times was described by Vitruvius (De Architectura) and Pliny The Elder (Naturalis Historia.) A wall was prepared by the application of up to 3 coats of lime and sand mortar followed by 1-3 coats of lime mixed with finely powdered marble; coloured pigments were applied while the wall was still damp.Hence "Fresco - painted onto fresh plaster). Sometimes tempera and liquid wax were added after the wall had dried.
The basic technique was, of course, to just add pigment to decorate the bare plaster, either for the whole wall or by dividing it up into multiple rectangular areas, with different patches of colour for each area. Those with talent of their own or access to a skilled craftsman, might have added a few scenes from rural or urban life. Those with better finances might have moved on to one of the following schemes.

One of the early styles was to try to copy the technique of placing slabs of marble onto a wall. This could be done by painting the wall to look like the veins and colours of marble. That technique has been used down through history, from ancient Greece to the stately homes of England. An example of this is the Samnite House, Herculaneum.

If you could paint a wall to look like marble blocks, you could also paint windows, complete with scenes you would like to have seen through those windows. This sort of Trompe l'oeil effect originates from ancient Greece:
Two painters were rivals in a contest. Each would paint a picture that produced a more perfect illusion of the real world. One, named Zeuxis painted a likeness of grapes so natural that birds flew down to peck at them. Then his opponent, Parrhasius asked him to examine his own picture, hidden behind a curtain. When he tried to lift the curtain, Zeuxis was stunned to discover he had lost the contest. What had appeared to be a cloth was in reality his rival's painting.

Even a simple tenement might possess a crude painting of a window, with light patterns coming through it.From the basic to the sublime, many examples can be found. Examples include the Odyssey paintings from a Roman house on the Esquiline (now in the Vatican), Livia's Villa at Prima Porta (paintings in the Museo Nazionale Romano), and the Villa of the Mysteries at Pompeii.

Another style used the opposite effect. Instead of fooling the eye into thinking that it could see through a window, this one transformed the interior of the room into a library or gallery. Visitors would be impressed by what appeared to be a large central picture surrounded by smaller accompanying ones. These of course were pictures of pictures. There could also be statues or exotic beasts standing in niches.

Given time and limitless money, of course, all these ideas could be, and were, developed. Nero's Domus Aurea in Rome boasted rooms sheathed in dazzling white polished marble, with richly varied floor plans often containing views out onto real vistas, and with real fountains in some rooms and corridors. A real oculus (glazed dome) let in real, rather than painted light. Mosaics covered ceilings as well as floors, developments that led to designs seen in cathedrals and major public buildings today. The style of wall paintings in Domus Aurea inspired Raphael's Vatican Stanze and 18th-century Neoclassicism alike.

From simple wall decoration through to stately homes and palaces, and mighty cathedrals, the advances in Roman decorative art have been one of the spearheads of architecture and design, right down to our own day. That gaudy slab of plasterwork you might see on your visit to a restored Roman site represents only the very beginning of Roman domestic decorative art.

Valete omnes
Crispus

Salve,

It sounds like media hype over noticing that some people in Turkey still speak Pontic Greek.

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
> how come that nobody on this list points out the obvious fact that there
> were millions of people who called themselves Roman until 1453? That's when
> Constantinople fell, and the Turks cancelled the national identity of the
> local population.
>
> Recently there was media hype about an archaic Greek dialect spoken on the
> Black sea coast in Turkey. And, guess what? It's called Romeiki, which means
> exactly "Roman" in Greek.
>
> Valete,
> Livia
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sempronia Sabina" <skyandwaves@>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:10 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Fall of the Roman Empire
>
>
>
>
> Salve!
>
> I believe this has to do with the fall of the Roman Empire itself. It wasn't
> the people who disappeared, but the Roman identity. When the Roman Empire
> was still in existence, people considered themselves Romans regardless of
> which part of the empire they were from, just like we would associate
> ourselves with our countries nowadays. When the empire ceased to exist,
> people no longer identified themselves with Rome but the tribes they were
> divided into (Gauls, Goths, Franks - depending on which period you are
> looking at).
>
> Good to know there're still plenty of Romans around today!
>
> Vale bene!
>
> L. Sempronia Sabina
>

Salve Crispe!

Thank you for this! I found it fascinating, but then, I do have a fondness for decorative arts of all types, from those made with needle and yarn to ...well, mosaics, certainly, but even furniture, glassware, and carved chests and such.

Vale quam optime!
C. Maria Caeca, collector of tiny trinket boxes, among other furbelows!

----- Original Message -----
From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:20 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Those Arty Romans - Roman decorative art



Salvete omnes

This look at Roman decorative art started from an interest in the frescoes from Campania (the area around Naples that includes Pompeii and Herculaneum. Though works recovered from the areas buried by the eruption of Vesuvius are key to our understanding, wall plaster from elsewhere in the Roman world, and modern re-creations, also help us understand and appreciate what the original artists tried to achieve.

Without the benefit of windows, many Roman dwellings, particularly tenements, were naturally dark, drab, colourless and depressing. Some apartments were small, perhaps with only one or two rooms, and with little or no outlook onto the surrounding area. What they needed was a good make-over. Anyone who has visited a Roman site may have been surprised at just how gaudy some of the paint effects were.

The art of fresco as practised in Classical times was described by Vitruvius (De Architectura) and Pliny The Elder (Naturalis Historia.) A wall was prepared by the application of up to 3 coats of lime and sand mortar followed by 1-3 coats of lime mixed with finely powdered marble; coloured pigments were applied while the wall was still damp.Hence "Fresco - painted onto fresh plaster). Sometimes tempera and liquid wax were added after the wall had dried.
The basic technique was, of course, to just add pigment to decorate the bare plaster, either for the whole wall or by dividing it up into multiple rectangular areas, with different patches of colour for each area. Those with talent of their own or access to a skilled craftsman, might have added a few scenes from rural or urban life. Those with better finances might have moved on to one of the following schemes.

One of the early styles was to try to copy the technique of placing slabs of marble onto a wall. This could be done by painting the wall to look like the veins and colours of marble. That technique has been used down through history, from ancient Greece to the stately homes of England. An example of this is the Samnite House, Herculaneum.

If you could paint a wall to look like marble blocks, you could also paint windows, complete with scenes you would like to have seen through those windows. This sort of Trompe l'oeil effect originates from ancient Greece:
Two painters were rivals in a contest. Each would paint a picture that produced a more perfect illusion of the real world. One, named Zeuxis painted a likeness of grapes so natural that birds flew down to peck at them. Then his opponent, Parrhasius asked him to examine his own picture, hidden behind a curtain. When he tried to lift the curtain, Zeuxis was stunned to discover he had lost the contest. What had appeared to be a cloth was in reality his rival's painting.

Even a simple tenement might possess a crude painting of a window, with light patterns coming through it.From the basic to the sublime, many examples can be found. Examples include the Odyssey paintings from a Roman house on the Esquiline (now in the Vatican), Livia's Villa at Prima Porta (paintings in the Museo Nazionale Romano), and the Villa of the Mysteries at Pompeii.

Another style used the opposite effect. Instead of fooling the eye into thinking that it could see through a window, this one transformed the interior of the room into a library or gallery. Visitors would be impressed by what appeared to be a large central picture surrounded by smaller accompanying ones. These of course were pictures of pictures. There could also be statues or exotic beasts standing in niches.

Given time and limitless money, of course, all these ideas could be, and were, developed. Nero's Domus Aurea in Rome boasted rooms sheathed in dazzling white polished marble, with richly varied floor plans often containing views out onto real vistas, and with real fountains in some rooms and corridors. A real oculus (glazed dome) let in real, rather than painted light. Mosaics covered ceilings as well as floors, developments that led to designs seen in cathedrals and major public buildings today. The style of wall paintings in Domus Aurea inspired Raphael's Vatican Stanze and 18th-century Neoclassicism alike.

From simple wall decoration through to stately homes and palaces, and mighty cathedrals, the advances in Roman decorative art have been one of the spearheads of architecture and design, right down to our own day. That gaudy slab of plasterwork you might see on your visit to a restored Roman site represents only the very beginning of Roman domestic decorative art.

Valete omnes
Crispus





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

I thought that the Ottoman successors of the Greeks in the east actually took up
the title of Emperor of the Romans for themselves.  I read this on wikipedia, so
I'm not sure how reliable it is, but still, by some historical standard I
thought the roman empire actually ended in 1921-provided you accept the Turkish
assumption of the title Emperor of the Romans.

I could be wrong, so please don't get mad.

Vale,

T. Claudius Galea




________________________________
From: gualterus_graecus <waltms1@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, February 9, 2011 4:20:51 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Fall of the Roman Empire

 
Salve,

It sounds like media hype over noticing that some people in Turkey still speak
Pontic Greek.

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
> how come that nobody on this list points out the obvious fact that there
> were millions of people who called themselves Roman until 1453? That's when
> Constantinople fell, and the Turks cancelled the national identity of the
> local population.
>
> Recently there was media hype about an archaic Greek dialect spoken on the
> Black sea coast in Turkey. And, guess what? It's called Romeiki, which means
> exactly "Roman" in Greek.
>
> Valete,
> Livia
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sempronia Sabina" <skyandwaves@>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:10 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Fall of the Roman Empire
>
>
>
>
> Salve!
>
> I believe this has to do with the fall of the Roman Empire itself. It wasn't
> the people who disappeared, but the Roman identity. When the Roman Empire
> was still in existence, people considered themselves Romans regardless of
> which part of the empire they were from, just like we would associate
> ourselves with our countries nowadays. When the empire ceased to exist,
> people no longer identified themselves with Rome but the tribes they were
> divided into (Gauls, Goths, Franks - depending on which period you are
> looking at).
>
> Good to know there're still plenty of Romans around today!
>
> Vale bene!
>
> L. Sempronia Sabina
>






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Caeca, et salvete omnes.

Thanks for that. I'm no expert, but it's fascinating to watch how these techniques developed over more than two thousand years, moving from practical necessities to extravagant opulence.

I'm looking forward to seeing more discoveries coming out of Nero's golden house.

Vale optime, et valete omnes
Crispus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Crispe!
>
> Thank you for this! I found it fascinating, but then, I do have a fondness for decorative arts of all types, from those made with needle and yarn to ...well, mosaics, certainly, but even furniture, glassware, and carved chests and such.
>
> Vale quam optime!
> C. Maria Caeca, collector of tiny trinket boxes, among other furbelows!
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:20 AM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Those Arty Romans - Roman decorative art
>
>
>
> Salvete omnes
>
> This look at Roman decorative art started from an interest in the frescoes from Campania (the area around Naples that includes Pompeii and Herculaneum. Though works recovered from the areas buried by the eruption of Vesuvius are key to our understanding, wall plaster from elsewhere in the Roman world, and modern re-creations, also help us understand and appreciate what the original artists tried to achieve.
>
> Without the benefit of windows, many Roman dwellings, particularly tenements, were naturally dark, drab, colourless and depressing. Some apartments were small, perhaps with only one or two rooms, and with little or no outlook onto the surrounding area. What they needed was a good make-over. Anyone who has visited a Roman site may have been surprised at just how gaudy some of the paint effects were.
>
> The art of fresco as practised in Classical times was described by Vitruvius (De Architectura) and Pliny The Elder (Naturalis Historia.) A wall was prepared by the application of up to 3 coats of lime and sand mortar followed by 1-3 coats of lime mixed with finely powdered marble; coloured pigments were applied while the wall was still damp.Hence "Fresco - painted onto fresh plaster). Sometimes tempera and liquid wax were added after the wall had dried.
> The basic technique was, of course, to just add pigment to decorate the bare plaster, either for the whole wall or by dividing it up into multiple rectangular areas, with different patches of colour for each area. Those with talent of their own or access to a skilled craftsman, might have added a few scenes from rural or urban life. Those with better finances might have moved on to one of the following schemes.
>
> One of the early styles was to try to copy the technique of placing slabs of marble onto a wall. This could be done by painting the wall to look like the veins and colours of marble. That technique has been used down through history, from ancient Greece to the stately homes of England. An example of this is the Samnite House, Herculaneum.
>
> If you could paint a wall to look like marble blocks, you could also paint windows, complete with scenes you would like to have seen through those windows. This sort of Trompe l'oeil effect originates from ancient Greece:
> Two painters were rivals in a contest. Each would paint a picture that produced a more perfect illusion of the real world. One, named Zeuxis painted a likeness of grapes so natural that birds flew down to peck at them. Then his opponent, Parrhasius asked him to examine his own picture, hidden behind a curtain. When he tried to lift the curtain, Zeuxis was stunned to discover he had lost the contest. What had appeared to be a cloth was in reality his rival's painting.
>
> Even a simple tenement might possess a crude painting of a window, with light patterns coming through it.From the basic to the sublime, many examples can be found. Examples include the Odyssey paintings from a Roman house on the Esquiline (now in the Vatican), Livia's Villa at Prima Porta (paintings in the Museo Nazionale Romano), and the Villa of the Mysteries at Pompeii.
>
> Another style used the opposite effect. Instead of fooling the eye into thinking that it could see through a window, this one transformed the interior of the room into a library or gallery. Visitors would be impressed by what appeared to be a large central picture surrounded by smaller accompanying ones. These of course were pictures of pictures. There could also be statues or exotic beasts standing in niches.
>
> Given time and limitless money, of course, all these ideas could be, and were, developed. Nero's Domus Aurea in Rome boasted rooms sheathed in dazzling white polished marble, with richly varied floor plans often containing views out onto real vistas, and with real fountains in some rooms and corridors. A real oculus (glazed dome) let in real, rather than painted light. Mosaics covered ceilings as well as floors, developments that led to designs seen in cathedrals and major public buildings today. The style of wall paintings in Domus Aurea inspired Raphael's Vatican Stanze and 18th-century Neoclassicism alike.
>
> From simple wall decoration through to stately homes and palaces, and mighty cathedrals, the advances in Roman decorative art have been one of the spearheads of architecture and design, right down to our own day. That gaudy slab of plasterwork you might see on your visit to a restored Roman site represents only the very beginning of Roman domestic decorative art.
>
> Valete omnes
> Crispus
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Ave!

Not the Ottomans, but the Seljuk Turks - after the battle of Manizkert in
1071 ce after the Eastern Romans basically invalidated the generous peace
treaty Alp Arslen gave to Romanos Diogenes. Because by the time the emperor
came close to Constantinople there was already a new emperor on the throne
and Romanos was blinded and basically killed. Thus the treaty was never
accepted on the Eastern Roman Empire end, and it gave a reason for the
Seljuk to continue their advance almost effortlessly. By the time Alexus I
ascended to the thrown in 1081 the Eastern Roman Empire presence in Asia
Minor was almost eliminated. (And all this change happened within a
decade!) Thus the Turks began to fragment and the conglomeration itself was
known as the Sultan of Rum (Sultan of the Romans) because the lands they
took over were ruled by the Romans- but it was a continuation of the Seljuk
Sultanate.

Vale,

Sulla

On Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Peter Michienzi <forculus217@...>wrote:

>
>
> Salve,
>
> I thought that the Ottoman successors of the Greeks in the east actually
> took up
> the title of Emperor of the Romans for themselves. I read this on
> wikipedia, so
> I'm not sure how reliable it is, but still, by some historical standard I
> thought the roman empire actually ended in 1921-provided you accept the
> Turkish
> assumption of the title Emperor of the Romans.
>
> I could be wrong, so please don't get mad.
>
> Vale,
>
> T. Claudius Galea
>
> ________________________________
> From: gualterus_graecus <waltms1@...>
>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wed, February 9, 2011 4:20:51 PM
>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Fall of the Roman Empire
>
>
> Salve,
>
> It sounds like media hype over noticing that some people in Turkey still
> speak
> Pontic Greek.
>
> Vale,
>
> Gualterus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete omnes,
> > how come that nobody on this list points out the obvious fact that there
> > were millions of people who called themselves Roman until 1453? That's
> when
> > Constantinople fell, and the Turks cancelled the national identity of the
>
> > local population.
> >
> > Recently there was media hype about an archaic Greek dialect spoken on
> the
> > Black sea coast in Turkey. And, guess what? It's called Romeiki, which
> means
> > exactly "Roman" in Greek.
> >
> > Valete,
> > Livia
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sempronia Sabina" <skyandwaves@>
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:10 PM
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Fall of the Roman Empire
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve!
> >
> > I believe this has to do with the fall of the Roman Empire itself. It
> wasn't
> > the people who disappeared, but the Roman identity. When the Roman Empire
>
> > was still in existence, people considered themselves Romans regardless of
>
> > which part of the empire they were from, just like we would associate
> > ourselves with our countries nowadays. When the empire ceased to exist,
> > people no longer identified themselves with Rome but the tribes they were
>
> > divided into (Gauls, Goths, Franks - depending on which period you are
> > looking at).
> >
> > Good to know there're still plenty of Romans around today!
> >
> > Vale bene!
> >
> > L. Sempronia Sabina
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

n Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Peter Michienzi <forculus217@...>wrote:

>

Salve,

I thought that the Ottoman successors of the Greeks in the east actually
took up
the title of Emperor of the Romans for themselves. I read this on
wikipedia, so
I'm not sure how reliable it is, but still, by some historical standard I
thought the roman empire actually ended in 1921-provided you accept the
Turkish
assumption of the title Emperor of the Romans.

I could be wrong, so please don't get mad.

Vale,

T. Claudius Galea
Q. Fabius Maximus SPD
Salvete No, the Sultan of the Ottomans became known as the "Destroyer of the Greek Empire, since under his reign the various Roman splinter lands, fragmented by the Latin invasion (1204) was completed.
The last true Roman principate which could trace its legitimacy to the Imperator, was subjugated in 1461 by the Ottomans.
Valete



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Gualtere,
that's exactly what it was.

Vale,
Livia

----- Original Message -----
From: "gualterus_graecus" <waltms1@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 10:20 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Fall of the Roman Empire


Salve,

It sounds like media hype over noticing that some people in Turkey still
speak Pontic Greek.

Vale,

Gualterus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...>
wrote:
>
> Salvete omnes,
> how come that nobody on this list points out the obvious fact that there
> were millions of people who called themselves Roman until 1453? That's
> when
> Constantinople fell, and the Turks cancelled the national identity of the
> local population.
>
> Recently there was media hype about an archaic Greek dialect spoken on the
> Black sea coast in Turkey. And, guess what? It's called Romeiki, which
> means
> exactly "Roman" in Greek.
>
> Valete,
> Livia
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sempronia Sabina" <skyandwaves@>
> To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Sunday, February 06, 2011 8:10 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Fall of the Roman Empire
>
>
>
>
> Salve!
>
> I believe this has to do with the fall of the Roman Empire itself. It
> wasn't
> the people who disappeared, but the Roman identity. When the Roman Empire
> was still in existence, people considered themselves Romans regardless of
> which part of the empire they were from, just like we would associate
> ourselves with our countries nowadays. When the empire ceased to exist,
> people no longer identified themselves with Rome but the tribes they were
> divided into (Gauls, Goths, Franks - depending on which period you are
> looking at).
>
> Good to know there're still plenty of Romans around today!
>
> Vale bene!
>
> L. Sempronia Sabina
>

Salve Fabius,

I think you understood my post better.  Mehmet 2 felt he was continuing on with
a "third Rome" according to the blurb on wikipedia.  I wasn't referring at all
to the Seljuk Turks, since I didn't think their battles with the eastern empire
were regarded as the fall of Constantinople-I thought it was universally
agreed that occurred in 1453.  Maybe I'm wrong, like I said earlier.  Anyway,
here's the article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fall_of_Constantinople%c2%a0 scroll
down for the relevant bit.  Since his dynasty ended in 1921, again, I thought it
was plausible to argue the Roman empire truly met its end in the 20th century.

Vale,

Claudius



________________________________
From: Q. Fabius Maximus <QFabiusMaxmi@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, February 9, 2011 6:01:49 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Fall of the Roman Empire

 


n Wed, Feb 9, 2011 at 3:17 PM, Peter Michienzi <forculus217@...>wrote:

>

Salve,

I thought that the Ottoman successors of the Greeks in the east actually
took up
the title of Emperor of the Romans for themselves. I read this on
wikipedia, so
I'm not sure how reliable it is, but still, by some historical standard I
thought the roman empire actually ended in 1921-provided you accept the
Turkish
assumption of the title Emperor of the Romans.

I could be wrong, so please don't get mad.

Vale,

T. Claudius Galea
Q. Fabius Maximus SPD
Salvete No, the Sultan of the Ottomans became known as the "Destroyer of the
Greek Empire, since under his reign the various Roman splinter lands, fragmented
by the Latin invasion (1204) was completed.

The last true Roman principate which could trace its legitimacy to the
Imperator, was subjugated in 1461 by the Ottomans.
Valete

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem IV Idus Februarius; hic dies nefastus est.

"After Fufetius had thus spoken and his proposal had been received
with general approbation (for the most important both of the Romans
and Albans were with the two leaders), Tullius, after a short
pause, spoke as follows:

[Tullius speaks] 'In other respects, Fufetius, you seem to me to
have reasoned well; for it must be some wonderful fortune that has
produced in both our cities in our generation a similarity of birth
never known before. But of one consideration you seem to be unaware —
a matter which will cause great reluctance in the youths if we ask
them to fight with one another. For the mother of our Horatii is
sister to the mother of the Alban Curiatii, and the young men have
been brought up in the arms of both the women and cherish and love one
another no less than their own brothers. Consider, therefore, whether,
as they are cousins and have been brought up together, it would not be
impious in us to put arms in their hands and invite them to mutual
slaughter. For the pollution of kindred blood, if they are compelled
to stain their hands with one another's blood, will deservedly fall
upon us who compel them.'

To this Fufetius answered: 'Neither have I failed, Tullius, to note
the kinship of the youths, nor did I purpose to compel them to fight
with their cousins unless they themselves were inclined to undertake
the combat. But as soon as this plan came into my mind I sent for the
Alban Curiatii and sacred them in private to learn whether they were
willing to engage in the combat; and it was only after they had
accepted the proposal with incredible and wonderful alacrity that I
decided to disclose my plan and bring it forward for consideration.
And I advise you to take the same course yourself — to send for the
triplets on your side and sound out their disposition. And if they,
too, agree of their own accord to risk their lives for their country,
accept the favour; but if hesitate, bring no compulsion to bear upon
them. I predict, however, the same result with them as with our own
youths — that is, if they are such men as we have been informed, like
the few most highly endowed by Nature, and are brave in arms; for the
reputation of their valour has reached us also.' " - Dionysius of
Halicarnassus 3.15


On this day, tradition says, Pharoah Thutmosis III of Egypt was
victorious in a battle on the plains of Meggido in Palestine in1468
B.C. Tuthmosis III fought with considerable nerve and cunning. On
this campaign, he marched to Gaza in ten days and from Yehem, planned
the battle to take take Megiddo which was held by a rebellious prince
named Kadesh. There were three possible approaches to Megiddo, two of
which were fairly open, straightforward routes while the third was
through a narrow pass that soldiers would only be able to march
through in single file.

Though he was advised against this dangerous pass by his commanders,
Tuthmosis not only took this dangerous route, but actually led the
troops through. Whether by luck, or gifted intuition this gamble paid
off, for when he emerged from the tight canyon, he saw that his
enemies had arranged their armies to defend the easier routes. In
fact, he emerged between the north and south wings of the enemy's
armies, and the next day decisively beat them in battle. It apparently
took a long siege (seven months) to take the city of Megiddo, but the
rewards were great. The spoils were considerable, and included 894
chariots, including two covered with gold, 200 suites of armor
including two of bronze, as well as over 2,000 horses and 25,000 other
animals. The human slaughter was so great (some casualty estimates
range between 30,000 - 50,000) that the site of the battle passed into
local lore; both Hebrew and Christian tradition have the final battle
between Good and Evil taking place at "har-Meggidon" or Armaggedon.

Tuthmosis III had marched from Thebes up the Syrian coast fighting
decisive battles, capturing three cities, and then returned back to
Thebes. Over the next 18 years, his armies would march against Syria
every summer and by the end of that period, he established Egyptian
dominance over Palestine. At Karnak he records the capture of 350
cities, and in the 42nd year of his rule, Kadesh itself was finally taken.


Valete bene!

Cato