Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Mar 11-17, 2011

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83630 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Congrats to all the well mannered NR Magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83631 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: a.d. III Id. Mar.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83632 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Fide cani ? :-)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83633 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Congrats to all the well mannered NR Magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83634 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Tsunami in the Pacific
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83635 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Certamen Historicum - Questions for Day 11 of Ludi Novi Romani 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83636 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Congrats to all the well mannered NR Magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83637 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Congrats to all the well mannered NR Magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83638 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Certamen Historicum - Questions for Day 12 of Ludi Novi Romani 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83639 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Certamen Historicum - Questions for Day 13 of Ludi Novi Romani 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83640 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: To Novi Romani: A Letter from Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83641 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Congrats to all the well mannered NR Magistrates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83642 From: Ty Sponchia Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Tsunami in the Pacific
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83643 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: To Novi Romani: A Letter from Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83644 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Tsunami in the Pacific
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83645 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: ADMISSION OF AN INTERCESSIO in Bad Latin?
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83646 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Tsunami in the Pacific
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83647 From: Ty Sponchia Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Tsunami in the Pacific
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83648 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: To Novi Romani: A Letter from Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83649 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764 - Triclinium chat
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83650 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Certamen Latinum: Interim Results and Answers to Question # 6
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83651 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: De Caecá
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83652 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI - Certamen Latinum # 9
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83653 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: a.d. IV Id. Mar.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83654 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] De Caecá
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83655 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: Tsunami in the Pacific
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83656 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] De Caecá
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83657 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: To Novi Romani: A Letter from Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83658 From: Sabinus Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Today We Honor: Mercurius, God of commerce and merchants.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83659 From: Sabinus Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Temple of Mercurius.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83660 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Today we also honor: Fortuna Goddess of Luck, Fortune, and Justice
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83661 From: Gaius Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: To Novi Romani: A Letter from Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83662 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: LUDI NOVI 2764: Roman Mythology (Quiz Dies 12)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83663 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: De Caecá
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83664 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] De Caecá
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83665 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] De Caecá
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83666 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764: Triclinium Chat (A Tale With a Different Spin
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83668 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: De Caecá
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83669 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: Certamen Latinum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83670 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: FW: [Explorator] explorator 13.47
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83671 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: CLOSING RITUAL TO PAX AND CONCORDIA of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83672 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: A Prayer to Pax
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83673 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764: Roman Mythology Quiz (Dies 13)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83674 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83675 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83676 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: Nundinal Calendar II: pr. Id. Mar. to a.d. XI Kal. Apr.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83677 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: Re: Nundinal Calendar II: pr. Id. Mar. to a.d. XI Kal. Apr.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83678 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764 - final day parade
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83679 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764 - Triclinium chat
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83680 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: Re: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764 - final day parade
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83681 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764: Final Triclinium Chat of the Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83682 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764: Closing Speech of Curule Aedile Sta. Cornelia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83683 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: And Here Come The Thank-You's
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83684 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: Re: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83685 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: Re: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83686 From: Nyk Cowham Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Hail the Aediles and the Happy Bees!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83687 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: Hail the Aediles and the Happy Bees!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83688 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: Nundinal Calendar II: pr. Id. Mar. to a.d. XI Kal. Apr.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83689 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Thank you for the Ludi Novae Romae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83690 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83691 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: prid. Id. Mar.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83692 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83693 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI: Certamen Latinum # 10
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83694 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83695 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83696 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: Thank you for the Ludi Novae Romae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83697 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83698 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83699 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Last Call for Literary Submissions
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83700 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: EDICTUM CONSULARE - AMENDMENT
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83701 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83702 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: How to send Messages and Get Wells to Caeca:)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83703 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: How to send Messages and Get Wells to Caeca:)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83704 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83705 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83706 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83707 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83708 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83709 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83710 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83711 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83712 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Answer to the Consul's question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83713 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: Answer to the Consul's question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83714 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: Answer to the Consul's question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83715 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: The SCU - setting the stage
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83716 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: Answer to the Consul's question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83717 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: Answer to the Consul's question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83718 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: Answer to the Consul's question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83719 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83720 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83721 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83722 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83723 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83724 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83725 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83726 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: How to send Messages and Get Wells to Caeca:)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83727 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83728 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: FULL TEXT of EDICTUM CONSULARE as AMENDED
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83729 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83730 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83731 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83732 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83733 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83734 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83735 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: IDIBUS MARTIIS
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83736 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: CAVE IDUS MARTIAS!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83737 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83738 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83739 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Gratias Novi Romani!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83740 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: Gratias Novi Romani!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83741 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: CAVE IDUS MARTIAS!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83742 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: For the Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83743 From: Cn. Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83744 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83745 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83746 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83747 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83748 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83749 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83750 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83751 From: Sabinus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83752 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: CAVE IDUS MARTIAS!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83753 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83754 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83755 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83756 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83757 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83758 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83759 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83760 From: L. Livia Plauta Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83761 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: ANNA PERENNA - honored in Pannonia today
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83762 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83763 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: For the Ludi
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83764 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83765 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: De edicto consulari vetando.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83766 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83767 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: De edicto consulari vetando.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83768 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: De edicto consulari - censorial position
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83769 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: a.d. XVII Kal. Aprilis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83770 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: De edicto consulari - censorial position
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83771 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Next SCU application
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83772 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: De edicto consulari - censorial position
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83773 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Answer to the requests of Intercessio on the joint Consular Edictum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83774 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83775 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83776 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: De edicto consulari - censorial position
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83777 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83778 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Gratias Novi Romani!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83779 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83780 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83781 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83782 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Next SCU application
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83783 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Next SCU application
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83784 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Next SCU application
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83785 From: Q. Fabius Maximus Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Next SCU application
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83786 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Next SCU application
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83787 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Next SCU application
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83788 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83789 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: De edicto consulari vetando.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83790 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: De edicto consulari - censorial position
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83791 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: De edicto consulari - censorial position
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83792 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83793 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83794 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83795 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83796 From: Robert Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83797 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: a.d. XVI Kal. April. - LIBERALIA
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83798 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83799 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Shades and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83800 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Shades and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83801 From: Robert Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83802 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Shades and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83803 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83804 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Shades and Jesus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83805 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83806 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Shades and Jesus



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83630 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Congrats to all the well mannered NR Magistrates
Salve Collega !

> I am not sure about that. Probably the 'respublicaromanaorg' domain >registrant knows better.

Do you refer to the domain laid by our Tribunicius Aquillius Rota ?
But what for, this domain ? Is it a competing organization which falls in the scope of the recently voted SCU ?

>> to love throwing dirt at each other.>>>

>You know, maybe that seem like a paradox but somehow is Roman. It's >a part of legacy we received from our ancestors.

Absolutely, Collega.
As we have not the ones, because of our office, who have "picked up the first handful of dirt" (here is a Christian image, as it seems that many of us use such expressions), I can confirm that, from the moment a struggle starts becoming a political one, dirt may always be thrown, and that there would never have been a Rome without such dirt-throwings, not speaking, a fortiori, of the various murders etc..

In addition, I am always perplex towards the "dirty" ;-) remarks from people who have supported, during several weeks, the authors of a coup and that, once they have felt that the wind has turned, have assessed their fidelity to the winning side.
Personally, in such situation, feeling that I would not probably be an example of political courage and of basic Roman virtues, I would care remaining silent.


Vale Sabine,


Albucius csr













--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:
>
> SALVE!
>
> --- On Fri, 3/11/11, Aqvillivs <c.aqvillivs_rota@...> wrote:
>
> <and congratulations to all the fine ex consuls and magistrates who seem
> to love throwing dirt at each other.>>>
>  
> You know, maybe that seem like a paradox but somehow is Roman. It's a part of legacy we received from our ancestors. Near it are more how for example is the political corruption, right ex tribune? 
>
> <What a favor one does for competing orgs., giving them to point on us
> with their fingers!>>>
>  
> I am not sure about that. Probably the 'respublicaromanaorg' domain registrant knows better.
>  
> VALE,
> Sabinus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83631 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: a.d. III Id. Mar.
SALVETE!
 
For who don't know about it, here is the ritual to Hercules performed during the Conventus in Dacia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVBwjACnRr8%c2%a0
 
“O Hercules, energetic Alcidean, unwearied after so many labors, so they recall, even so You laid aside Your cares and made delightful play with a tender girl, having forgotten the Nemean lion, and also the Erymanthian boar. What should come afterward? Twisting spindles with Your thumbs, biting smooth the rough threads in Your mouth. Lydian Omphale beat you for repeatedly knotting and breaking the thread with Your rough hands. Often she would lead You as one of her spinning maidens dressed in flowing robes. Your knotty club together with the lion's skin was thrown down to the ground, and Amor danced upon them with light feet. Who would have thought that would come about when as a babe You strangled monstrous serpents with hands that could barely grasp, or when You swiftly cut off the heads of the Hydra as each grew back again? or conquered the savage steeds of Diomede, or when alone You fought the three brothers who shared a common body and contended
with six hands? After the Lord of Olympus routed the sons of Aloeus they say He rested on a bed until the bright of day, and then sent His eagle in search and bring back anyone worthy to lovingly serve Jove, until in an Idaean valley he found You, handsome priest, and gently carried You away in his talons.”
 
[Anonymous Elegy to Maecenus 1.57-68]
More prayers to Hercules:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Prayers_to_Hercules

 
VALETE,
Sabinus

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--- On Fri, 3/11/11, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:


From: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] a.d. III Id. Mar.
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 11, 2011, 2:54 PM


 



Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem III Idus Martius; haec dies comitialis est.

In ancient Greece, today was celebrated in honor of Hercules.
Hercules (also known as Herakles) was the name in Roman mythology of
the hero Herakles from Greek mythology, the Roman name being a
metathesis of the Greek name. He is the son of Iuppiter, the Roman
counterpart to the Greek god Zeus and the mortal Alcmene. He was made
to perform twelve great tasks, called The Twelve Labours of Hercules
and became a god; the Romans adopted the Greek version of his life and
works essentially unchanged, but added anecdotal detail of their own,
some of it linking the hero with the geography of the Western
Mediterranean. Details of cult were adapted to Rome as well.

Hercules can be identified by his attributes, the lion skin and the
club. He is a paragon of masculinity, and thus embodies
characteristics such as great strength, great courage, and great
appetite, including great sexual appetite for women and boys. By
conquering negative forces he is said to have "made the world safe for
mankind." He is often compared to the biblical strong man Samson, who
also possessed vast superhuman strength and performed similar feats
such as wrestling a lion. The later Roman Emperors, in particular
Commodus and Maximinus, often identified or compared themselves with
Hercules.

The Great Altar of Hercules, housed within the Forum Boarium, has been
dated to the 6th or 5th century B.C. The cult of Hercules may have
been the first foreign one to be adopted in Rome; his most important
shrine, the Ara Maxima, was in the original Palatine settlement. He
became popular with merchants, who customarily paid him a tithe of
their profits.

Hercules is said to have founded an altar where the Forum Boarium, the
cattle market, was later held. One possible origin for the myth of the
Cattle of Geryon, one of The Twelve Labors of Herakles, has been
attributed to an older Milky Way myth which associates the Milky Way
constellation with a herd of dairy cattle, where each cow is
represented by a star.

Zeus, having made Alcmene pregnant with Herakles, proclaimed that the
next son born of the house of Perseus would become king. Hera, Zeus'
consort, hearing this, caused Eurystheus to be born two months early
as he was of the house of Perseus, while Herakles, also of the house,
was three months overdue. When he found out what had been done, Zeus
was furious; however, his rash proclamation still stood.

In a fit of madness, induced by Hera, Herakles slew his wife and
children; the fit then passed. Realising what he had done, he isolated
himself, going into the wilderness and living alone. He was found (by
his brother Iphicles) and convinced to visit the Oracle at Delphi. The
Oracle told him that as a penance he would have to perform a series of
ten tasks set by King Eurystheus, the man who had taken Herakles'
birthright and the man he hated the most.

In his labors, Herakles was often accompanied by his boyfriend (an
eromenos), according to some, Licymnius, or by others Iolaus, his
nephew. Although he was only supposed to perform ten labors, this
assistance led to him suffering two more, hence the dodekathlos, or
Twelve Labors. Eurystheus didn't count the Hydra, because Iolaus
helped him, or the Augean stables, as he received payment for his work
(in other versions it is because the rivers did the work).

The traditional order of the labors is:

1. Slay the Nemean Lion and bring back its skin.

"First he cleared the grove of Zeus of a lion, and put its skin upon
his back, hiding his yellow hair in its fearful tawny gaping jaws." -
Euripides, Hercules, 359

2. Slay the Lernaean Hydra.

"At the source of the Amymone grows a plane tree, beneath which, they
say, the hydra (water-snake) grew. I am ready to believe that this
beast was superior in size to other water-snakes, and that its poison
had something in it so deadly that Heracles treated the points of his
arrows with its gall. It had, however, in my opinion, one head, and
not several. It was Peisander of Camirus who, in order that the beast
might appear more frightful and his poetry might be more remarkable,
represented the hydra with its many heads" - Pausanias, Description of
Greece, 2.37.4

3. Capture the Ceryneian Hind.

"Now the hind was at Oenoe; it had golden horns and was sacred to
Artemis; so wishing neither to kill nor wound it, Hercules hunted it a
whole year. But when, weary with the chase, the beast took refuge on
the mountain called Artemisius, and thence passed to the river Ladon,
Hercules shot it just as it was about to cross the stream, and
catching it put it on his shoulders and hastened through Arcadia. But
Artemis with Apollo met him, and would have wrested the hind from him,
and rebuked him for attempting to kill her sacred animal. Howbeit, by
pleading necessity and laying the blame on Eurystheus, he appeased the
anger of the goddess and carried the beast alive to Mycenae." -
Apollodorus, Library and Epitome 2.5.3

4. Capture the Erymanthian Boar.

"But Pholus, drawing the arrow from a corpse, wondered that so little
a thing could kill such big fellows; howbeit, it slipped from his hand
and lighting on his foot killed him on the spot. So when Hercules
returned to Pholoe, he beheld Pholus dead; and he buried him and
proceeded to the boar hunt. And when he had chased the boar with
shouts from a certain thicket, he drove the exhausted animal into deep
snow, trapped it, and brought it to Mycenae." - Apollodorus, Library
and Epitome 2.5.4

5. Clean the Augean stables in one day.

"Hercules made a breach in the foundations of the cattle-yard, and
then, diverting the courses of the Alpheus and Peneus, [p. 197] which
flowed near each other, he turned them into the yard, having first
made an outlet for the water through another opening. When Augeas
learned that this had been accomplished at the command of Eurystheus,
he would not pay the reward; nay more, he denied that he had promised
to pay it, and on that point he professed himself ready to submit to
arbitration. The arbitrators having taken their seats, Phyleus was
called by Hercules and bore witness against his father, affirming that
he had agreed to give him a reward." - Apollodorus, 2.5.5.

6. Slay the Stymphalian Birds.

"These fly against those who come to hunt them, wounding and killing
them with their beaks. All armor of bronze or iron that men wear is
pierced by the birds; but if they weave a garment of thick cork, the
beaks of the Stymphalian birds are caught in the cork garment... These
birds are of the size of a crane, and are like the ibis, but their
beaks are more powerful, and not crooked like that of the ibis." -
Pausanias, Description of Greece, 8.22.5

7. Capture the Cretan Bull.

"...the Cretan bull. Acusilaus says that this was the bull that
ferried across Europa for Zeus; but some say it was the bull that
Poseidon sent up from the sea when Minos promised to sacrifice to
Poseidon what should appear out of the sea. And they say that when he
saw the beauty of the bull he sent it away to the herds and sacrificed
another to Poseidon; at which the god was angry and made the bull
savage. To attack this bull Hercules came to Crete, and when, in reply
to his request for aid, Minos told him to fight and catch the bull for
himself, he caught it and brought it to Eurystheus, and having shown
it to him he let it afterwards go free. But the bull roamed to Sparta
and all Arcadia, and traversing the Isthmus arrived at Marathon in
Attica and harried the inhabitants." - Apollodorus, 2.5.7

8. Steal the Mares of Diomedes.

"He mounted on a chariot and tamed with the bit the horses of
Diomedes, that greedily champed their bloody food at gory mangers with
unbridled jaws, devouring with hideous joy the flesh of men." -
Euripides, Hercules, 380

9. Obtain the Girdle of Hippolyte.

"The race of the Amazons is said to have been made up entirely of
women. These women possessed the highest knowledge of the warfare, and
they exhibited very great courage; for they dared to engage in
battle even with men. Hippolyte, the Queen of the Amazons, had a very
famous belt (war brest plate, girdle), which Mars had given to her.
Admeta, the daughter of Eursytheus, heard the story about this belt,
and really wanted to have it. Eurystheus, therefore, ordered Hercules
to collect an army and to make war on the Amazons. He sent out
messengers everywhere, and, after a great multitude came together, he
picked out those who had the greatest experience in warfare." -
Euripdes, Hercules 21

10. Obtain the Cows of Geryon.

"Now Erythia was an island near the ocean; it is now called Gadira.
This island was inhabited by Geryon, son of Chrysaor by Callirrhoe,
daughter of Ocean. He had the body of three men grown together and
joined in one at the waist, but parted in three from the flanks and
thighs. He owned red kine, of which Eurytion was the herdsman and
Orthus, the two-headed hound, begotten by Typhon on Echidna, was the
watchdog. So journeying through Europe to fetch the kine of Geryon he
destroyed many wild beasts and set foot in Libya, and proceeding to
Tartessus he erected as tokens of his journey two pillars over against
each other at the boundaries of Europe and Libya. But being heated by
the Sun on his journey, he bent his bow at the god, who in admiration
of his hardihood, gave him a golden goblet in which he crossed the
ocean. And having reached Erythia he lodged on Mount Abas. However
the dog, perceiving him, rushed at him; but he smote it with his club,
and when the herdsman Eurytion came to the help of the dog, Hercules
killed him also. But Menoetes, who was there pasturing the kine of
Hades, reported to Geryon what had occurred, and he, coming up with
Hercules beside the river Anthemus, as he was driving away the kine,
joined battle with him and was shot dead. And Hercules, embarking the
kine in the goblet and sailing across to Tartessus, gave back the
goblet to the Sun." - Apollodorus, Library and Epitome 2.5.10

11. Steal the Apples of the Hesperides.

"Now Prometheus had told Hercules not to go himself after the apples
but to send Atlas, first relieving him of the burden of the sphere; so
when he was come to Atlas in the land of the Hyperboreans, he took the
advice and relieved Atlas. But when Atlas had received three apples
from the Hesperides, he came to Hercules, and not wishing to support
the sphere< he said that he would himself carry the apples to
Eurystheus, and bade Hercules hold up the sky in his stead. Hercules
promised to do so, but succeeded by craft in putting it on Atlas
instead. For at the advice of Prometheus he begged Atlas to hold up
the sky till he should put a pad on his head. When Atlas heard that,
he laid the apples down on the ground and took the sphere from
Hercules. And so Hercules picked up the apples and departed. But some
say that he did not get them from Atlas, but that he plucked the
apples himself after killing the guardian snake. And having brought
the apples he gave them to Eurystheus. But he, on receiving them,
bestowed them on Hercules, from whom Athena got them and conveyed them
back again; for it was not lawful that they should be laid down
anywhere." - Apollodorus, Library and Epitome 2.5.11

12. Capture Cerberus.

"...A monster not to be overcome and that may not be described,
Cerberus who eats raw flesh, the brazen-voiced hound of Hades,
fifty-headed, relentless and strong." - Hesiod, Theogony 310

Valete bene!

Cato











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83632 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Fide cani ? :-)
Dextro s.d.

See the relation with the dog food brand : :-) I dunno if it is sold in the U.S., but in France, one brand is called "Fido", which means in Latin "I trust".

So Aeternia's "Fide cani" seems much correct (fido+dat. - canis, is) and meaning "Trust the dog".

I find this is a beautiful motto :-), that some political analysts might, out of a private framework, apply to some political groups.


Vale Dexter,


P. Memmius Albucius






--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...> wrote:
>
> Aeternia C. Petronio S.P.D.
>
> "Cave Canem" meaning "Beware of the Dog" correct?
>
> Well I guess it would be considered a polar opposite lol.
>
> Btw, changed the subject in the header we've had enough dealing with
> "Intercessio" today ;-)
>
> Vale bene,
> Aeternia
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 10, 2011 at 10:27 PM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > C. Petronius Aeterniae s.p.d.,
> >
> > Ok. Fide is from the verb fidere... and not from the word fides.
> >
> > "Fide cani" being the contrary to "cave canem"... :o)
> >
> > Optime vale.
> >
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> > Arcoiali scribebat
> > a. d. V Idus Martias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83633 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Congrats to all the well mannered NR Magistrates
SALVE!

--- On Fri, 3/11/11, publiusalbucius <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:

> I am not sure about that. Probably the 'respublicaromanaorg' domain >registrant knows better.
Do you refer to the domain laid by our Tribunicius Aquillius Rota ?>>>
 
Yes.
 
But what for, this domain ? Is it a competing organization which falls in the scope of the recently voted SCU ? >>>
 
I want to believe it is not.  Until now, it's simple inoffensive domain.  
When it comes about the SCU I will be not surprised to see somewhere in a show production list how it is contested because the interference with the Collegium Fetialium authority. Everything is possible for this time. What remain for us, magistrates with denied authority, is to contemplate all of these and to comment from the balcony like Statler and Waldorf in the Muppets show.

 
VALE,
Sabinus





 


>> to love throwing dirt at each other.>>>

>You know, maybe that seem like a paradox but somehow is Roman. It's >a part of legacy we received from our ancestors.

Absolutely, Collega.
As we have not the ones, because of our office, who have "picked up the first handful of dirt" (here is a Christian image, as it seems that many of us use such expressions), I can confirm that, from the moment a struggle starts becoming a political one, dirt may always be thrown, and that there would never have been a Rome without such dirt-throwings, not speaking, a fortiori, of the various murders etc..

In addition, I am always perplex towards the "dirty" ;-) remarks from people who have supported, during several weeks, the authors of a coup and that, once they have felt that the wind has turned, have assessed their fidelity to the winning side.
Personally, in such situation, feeling that I would not probably be an example of political courage and of basic Roman virtues, I would care remaining silent.

Vale Sabine,

Albucius csr

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:
>
> SALVE!
>
> --- On Fri, 3/11/11, Aqvillivs <c.aqvillivs_rota@...> wrote:
>
> <and congratulations to all the fine ex consuls and magistrates who seem
> to love throwing dirt at each other.>>>
>  
> You know, maybe that seem like a paradox but somehow is Roman. It's a part of legacy we received from our ancestors. Near it are more how for example is the political corruption, right ex tribune? 
>
> <What a favor one does for competing orgs., giving them to point on us
> with their fingers!>>>
>  
> I am not sure about that. Probably the 'respublicaromanaorg' domain registrant knows better.
>  
> VALE,
> Sabinus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83634 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Tsunami in the Pacific
Salvete Omnes,

In the wee hours of the morning I was speaking with our Augur Agricola as earthquakes (8.8 plus many violent aftershocks)rocked Japan accompanied by a tsunami that hit the coast. Agricola assured me that while there was some shaking going on he is in a relatively safe area.
Now a tsunami is heading for Hawaii and the west coast of the US. In the past few years we have heard of the possibility of this happening and now it is here, I only hope, I pray, as it approaches America's shore, that is is a small tsunami with minimal damage and no life lost.
I do not know if we have any citizens in Hawaii but if anyone has such knowledge please touch base with them and let us know.
Messalina, Vestal Virgin, and Senator Maximus both live in California and my thoughts and prayer go out to them. I do know there are other cives as well but I can't recall their names at this moment.
Romans you are on my mind and you have been remembered to the Gods in my morning ritual when I implored Them to keep you safe.

Valete optime,

Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83635 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Certamen Historicum - Questions for Day 11 of Ludi Novi Romani 2764
M. Pompeius Caninus omnibus in foro SPD:

It's Day 11 of the Ludi Novi Romani for 2764 AUC!

We are running a Certamen Historicum for this edition of the games. We will be
posting three history questions per day. Please send your answers to me in a
private email at m.pompeius@... before 11:59 PM Rome Time on 13
March 2764.

Are you not sure what time 11:59 PM Rome is in your local time zone:

12:59 PM Hawaii
1:59 PM Anchorage
2:59 PM Los Angeles
3:59 PM Phoenix
4:59 PM Chicago
5:59 PM New York
10:59 PM London
11:59 PM Rome
12:59 AM Sofia/Tel Aviv
1:59 AM Moscow
7:59 AM Tokyo
9:59 AM Sydney/Melbourne


See the following page for the current time around the world:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?sort=2


Here are the questions for 11 March 2764 - Day 11 of the ludi:

Question #31. In which direction would you travel from Rome if you wanted to
arrive in Helvetia?


Question #32. What consul, a novus homo, was defeated at the Battle of Arausio?


Question #33. Which citizen of Nova Roma served the shortest time ever
officially as a provincial governor?


For rules and more information, please see our Ludi page on the NR Wiki at:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXIV

Optime valete!

M. Pompeius Caninus
Canis Domum
America Boreoccidentalis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83636 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Congrats to all the well mannered NR Magistrates
Cato Albucio sal.

Dear censor, I think the phrase you are looking for is "cast the first stone". :)

Of course, Rome itself was founded on a murder, and a murder involving the interpretation of signs and signals from the Gods. So we have not strayed as far from them as we might think.

Vale bene!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "publiusalbucius" <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Collega !
>
> > I am not sure about that. Probably the 'respublicaromanaorg' domain >registrant knows better.
>
> Do you refer to the domain laid by our Tribunicius Aquillius Rota ?
> But what for, this domain ? Is it a competing organization which falls in the scope of the recently voted SCU ?
>
> >> to love throwing dirt at each other.>>>
>
> >You know, maybe that seem like a paradox but somehow is Roman. It's >a part of legacy we received from our ancestors.
>
> Absolutely, Collega.
> As we have not the ones, because of our office, who have "picked up the first handful of dirt" (here is a Christian image, as it seems that many of us use such expressions), I can confirm that, from the moment a struggle starts becoming a political one, dirt may always be thrown, and that there would never have been a Rome without such dirt-throwings, not speaking, a fortiori, of the various murders etc..
>
> In addition, I am always perplex towards the "dirty" ;-) remarks from people who have supported, during several weeks, the authors of a coup and that, once they have felt that the wind has turned, have assessed their fidelity to the winning side.
> Personally, in such situation, feeling that I would not probably be an example of political courage and of basic Roman virtues, I would care remaining silent.
>
>
> Vale Sabine,
>
>
> Albucius csr
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@> wrote:
> >
> > SALVE!
> >
> > --- On Fri, 3/11/11, Aqvillivs <c.aqvillivs_rota@> wrote:
> >
> > <and congratulations to all the fine ex consuls and magistrates who seem
> > to love throwing dirt at each other.>>>
> >  
> > You know, maybe that seem like a paradox but somehow is Roman. It's a part of legacy we received from our ancestors. Near it are more how for example is the political corruption, right ex tribune? 
> >
> > <What a favor one does for competing orgs., giving them to point on us
> > with their fingers!>>>
> >  
> > I am not sure about that. Probably the 'respublicaromanaorg' domain registrant knows better.
> >  
> > VALE,
> > Sabinus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83637 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Congrats to all the well mannered NR Magistrates
Cato Iulio Sabino sal.

If I am reading this correctly, Sabine, you seem to think that you cannot act under the SCU. This is incorrect. You only need to bring attention to any concerns you have regarding citizens or organizations and then you and your colleague and I and mine will work together to address these concerns.

Please do not think that the edict means anything more restrictive, because it does not. Since I wrote it, I know :)

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:
>
> SALVE!
>
> --- On Fri, 3/11/11, publiusalbucius <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
> > I am not sure about that. Probably the 'respublicaromanaorg' domain >registrant knows better.
> Do you refer to the domain laid by our Tribunicius Aquillius Rota ?>>>
>  
> Yes.
>  
> But what for, this domain ? Is it a competing organization which falls in the scope of the recently voted SCU ? >>>
>  
> I want to believe it is not.  Until now, it's simple inoffensive domain.  
> When it comes about the SCU I will be not surprised to see somewhere in a show production list how it is contested because the interference with the Collegium Fetialium authority. Everything is possible for this time. What remain for us, magistrates with denied authority, is to contemplate all of these and to comment from the balcony like Statler and Waldorf in the Muppets show.
>
>  
> VALE,
> Sabinus
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
> >> to love throwing dirt at each other.>>>
>
> >You know, maybe that seem like a paradox but somehow is Roman. It's >a part of legacy we received from our ancestors.
>
> Absolutely, Collega.
> As we have not the ones, because of our office, who have "picked up the first handful of dirt" (here is a Christian image, as it seems that many of us use such expressions), I can confirm that, from the moment a struggle starts becoming a political one, dirt may always be thrown, and that there would never have been a Rome without such dirt-throwings, not speaking, a fortiori, of the various murders etc..
>
> In addition, I am always perplex towards the "dirty" ;-) remarks from people who have supported, during several weeks, the authors of a coup and that, once they have felt that the wind has turned, have assessed their fidelity to the winning side.
> Personally, in such situation, feeling that I would not probably be an example of political courage and of basic Roman virtues, I would care remaining silent.
>
> Vale Sabine,
>
> Albucius csr
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@> wrote:
> >
> > SALVE!
> >
> > --- On Fri, 3/11/11, Aqvillivs <c.aqvillivs_rota@> wrote:
> >
> > <and congratulations to all the fine ex consuls and magistrates who seem
> > to love throwing dirt at each other.>>>
> >  
> > You know, maybe that seem like a paradox but somehow is Roman. It's a part of legacy we received from our ancestors. Near it are more how for example is the political corruption, right ex tribune? 
> >
> > <What a favor one does for competing orgs., giving them to point on us
> > with their fingers!>>>
> >  
> > I am not sure about that. Probably the 'respublicaromanaorg' domain registrant knows better.
> >  
> > VALE,
> > Sabinus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83638 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Certamen Historicum - Questions for Day 12 of Ludi Novi Romani 2764
M. Pompeius Caninus omnibus in foro SPD:

We are now in the final weekend of the Ludi Novi Romani for 2764 AUC!

We are running a or this edition of the games. Since it is the final weekend,
and we would like everyone to have a chance to participate in our Certamen
Historicum, we are sending out the questions for Day 12 and Day 13 early. Please
send your answers to me in a
private email at m.pompeius@... before 11:59 PM Rome Time on 13
March 2764.

Are you not sure what time 11:59 PM Rome is in your local time zone:

12:59 PM Hawaii
1:59 PM Anchorage
2:59 PM Los Angeles
3:59 PM Phoenix
4:59 PM Chicago
5:59 PM New York
10:59 PM London
11:59 PM Rome
12:59 AM Sofia/Tel Aviv
1:59 AM Moscow
7:59 AM Tokyo
9:59 AM Sydney/Melbourne


See the following page for the current time around the world:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?sort=2


Here are the questions for 12 March 2764 - Day 12 of the ludi:

Question #34. What king of Rome was the son of Ocrisia?

Question #35. As master of the Roman mint, who issued a coin depicting Bocchus
kneeling before Sulla with the captive Jugurtha?


Question #36. How many citizens of gens Cornelius were assidui in 2763?


For rules and more information, please see our Ludi page on the NR Wiki at:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXIV

Optime valete!

M. Pompeius Caninus
Canis Domum
America Boreoccidentalis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83639 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Certamen Historicum - Questions for Day 13 of Ludi Novi Romani 2764
M. Pompeius Caninus omnibus in foro SPD:

We are now in the final weekend of the Ludi Novi Romani for 2764 AUC!

We are running a or this edition of the games. Since it is the final weekend,
and we would like everyone to have a chance to participate in our Certamen
Historicum, we are sending out the questions for Day 12 and Day 13 early. Please
send your answers to me in a
private email at m.pompeius@... before 11:59 PM Rome Time on 13
March 2764.

Are you not sure what time 11:59 PM Rome is in your local time zone:

12:59 PM Hawaii
1:59 PM Anchorage
2:59 PM Los Angeles
3:59 PM Phoenix
4:59 PM Chicago
5:59 PM New York
10:59 PM London
11:59 PM Rome
12:59 AM Sofia/Tel Aviv
1:59 AM Moscow
7:59 AM Tokyo
9:59 AM Sydney/Melbourne


See the following page for the current time around the world:
http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/custom.html?sort=2


Here are the questions for 13 March 2764 - Day 13 of the ludi:

Question #37. Encouraged by their success in Spain against the Cimbri, the
Celtiberians waged a military campaign against the Romans. Who earned a triumph
by reducing the Celtiberians in 93 BC?

Question #38. After over a decade of minor Roman campaigns against the
Scordisci, who finally restored a durable peace in the Balkans in 101 BC?

Question #39. Nova Roma has four fora where official business takes place, such
as taking an oath of office or recording a law. Where would one find one of
these fora?


For rules and more information, please see our Ludi page on the NR Wiki at:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXIV

Optime valete!

M. Pompeius Caninus
Canis Domum
America Boreoccidentalis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83640 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: To Novi Romani: A Letter from Maria Caeca
Salvete omnes

I have said before that I am and will always be a Nova Romana. I have always made it clear that I am deeply loyal to and deeply committed to our goals and institutions our ideals and the sublime project of creating not only a place where we may joyfully express our worship of the Gods but a Roman state deeply true to its roots and yet strong enough, flexible enough, and vibrant enough to function and function well in our modern world. We have chosen how to govern ourselves and we do, but I have realized also that although our roots may reach far into antiquity at the foundation of every institution, every Nova Roman institution, at the heart of our senate, in soul of our collegium pontificum and at the core of our very being are not just ideals and principles but people, specifically You. Each and Everyone of You is a part of the very essence of what we are and so when I say "Nova Romana Sum Semper Nova Romana Ero" what I am really saying is that I freely offer my love, sincerity, and loyalty to each and everyone of you because we have chosen to make this journey together and I know even when you do not or when doubt it that we will be successful.

Valete quam optime,

Gaia Maria Caeca

(Dictated to L. Iulia Aquila 11Mar2011)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83641 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Congrats to all the well mannered NR Magistrates
SALVE!
 
No, no, no! The message I posted is a metaphor with dedication. The SCU is one of the best decisions and I think to it as security and good protection for Nova Roma. It will require good coordination between magistrates which in essence is not so easy but I am sure we will solve that even if I will pay an incredible attention to it legal application.
 
VALE,
Sabinus

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--- On Fri, 3/11/11, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:


From: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Congrats to all the well mannered NR Magistrates
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 11, 2011, 9:25 PM


 



Cato Iulio Sabino sal.

If I am reading this correctly, Sabine, you seem to think that you cannot act under the SCU. This is incorrect. You only need to bring attention to any concerns you have regarding citizens or organizations and then you and your colleague and I and mine will work together to address these concerns.

Please do not think that the edict means anything more restrictive, because it does not. Since I wrote it, I know :)

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:
>
> SALVE!
>
> --- On Fri, 3/11/11, publiusalbucius <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
> > I am not sure about that. Probably the 'respublicaromanaorg' domain >registrant knows better.
> Do you refer to the domain laid by our Tribunicius Aquillius Rota ?>>>
>  
> Yes.
>  
> But what for, this domain ? Is it a competing organization which falls in the scope of the recently voted SCU ? >>>
>  
> I want to believe it is not.  Until now, it's simple inoffensive domain.  
> When it comes about the SCU I will be not surprised to see somewhere in a show production list how it is contested because the interference with the Collegium Fetialium authority. Everything is possible for this time. What remain for us, magistrates with denied authority, is to contemplate all of these and to comment from the balcony like Statler and Waldorf in the Muppets show.
>
>  
> VALE,
> Sabinus
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
> >> to love throwing dirt at each other.>>>
>
> >You know, maybe that seem like a paradox but somehow is Roman. It's >a part of legacy we received from our ancestors.
>
> Absolutely, Collega.
> As we have not the ones, because of our office, who have "picked up the first handful of dirt" (here is a Christian image, as it seems that many of us use such expressions), I can confirm that, from the moment a struggle starts becoming a political one, dirt may always be thrown, and that there would never have been a Rome without such dirt-throwings, not speaking, a fortiori, of the various murders etc..
>
> In addition, I am always perplex towards the "dirty" ;-) remarks from people who have supported, during several weeks, the authors of a coup and that, once they have felt that the wind has turned, have assessed their fidelity to the winning side.
> Personally, in such situation, feeling that I would not probably be an example of political courage and of basic Roman virtues, I would care remaining silent.
>
> Vale Sabine,
>
> Albucius csr
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@> wrote:
> >
> > SALVE!
> >
> > --- On Fri, 3/11/11, Aqvillivs <c.aqvillivs_rota@> wrote:
> >
> > <and congratulations to all the fine ex consuls and magistrates who seem
> > to love throwing dirt at each other.>>>
> >  
> > You know, maybe that seem like a paradox but somehow is Roman. It's a part of legacy we received from our ancestors. Near it are more how for example is the political corruption, right ex tribune? 
> >
> > <What a favor one does for competing orgs., giving them to point on us
> > with their fingers!>>>
> >  
> > I am not sure about that. Probably the 'respublicaromanaorg' domain registrant knows better.
> >  
> > VALE,
> > Sabinus
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83642 From: Ty Sponchia Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Tsunami in the Pacific
Hail,

I am currently in Hawaii; all is well here. The tsunami did little damage and no loss of life. As the only citizen in Hawaii i will make a report to the Senate when all the information comes in. I have offered thanks to the Gods for the safety of the Islands and it peoples as well as offering prayers to those lost and harmed in Japan.

May Mercury bless the Senate and the people of Nova Roma.

Titus Sicinius Metellus

--- On Fri, 3/11/11, luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

From: luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Tsunami in the Pacific
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Received: Friday, March 11, 2011, 8:20 AM







 









Salvete Omnes,



In the wee hours of the morning I was speaking with our Augur Agricola as earthquakes (8.8 plus many violent aftershocks)rocked Japan accompanied by a tsunami that hit the coast. Agricola assured me that while there was some shaking going on he is in a relatively safe area.

Now a tsunami is heading for Hawaii and the west coast of the US. In the past few years we have heard of the possibility of this happening and now it is here, I only hope, I pray, as it approaches America's shore, that is is a small tsunami with minimal damage and no life lost.

I do not know if we have any citizens in Hawaii but if anyone has such knowledge please touch base with them and let us know.

Messalina, Vestal Virgin, and Senator Maximus both live in California and my thoughts and prayer go out to them. I do know there are other cives as well but I can't recall their names at this moment.

Romans you are on my mind and you have been remembered to the Gods in my morning ritual when I implored Them to keep you safe.



Valete optime,



Julia
























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83643 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: To Novi Romani: A Letter from Maria Caeca
Ave,

Please tell Caeca that we love her too and we are all praying for the day
when she can email all of us again and be blessed by her company! And
please tell her I miss sending her the dissertations that I used to do. :)

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 12:36 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <
luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

>
>
> Salvete omnes
>
> I have said before that I am and will always be a Nova Romana. I have
> always made it clear that I am deeply loyal to and deeply committed to our
> goals and institutions our ideals and the sublime project of creating not
> only a place where we may joyfully express our worship of the Gods but a
> Roman state deeply true to its roots and yet strong enough, flexible enough,
> and vibrant enough to function and function well in our modern world. We
> have chosen how to govern ourselves and we do, but I have realized also that
> although our roots may reach far into antiquity at the foundation of every
> institution, every Nova Roman institution, at the heart of our senate, in
> soul of our collegium pontificum and at the core of our very being are not
> just ideals and principles but people, specifically You. Each and Everyone
> of You is a part of the very essence of what we are and so when I say "Nova
> Romana Sum Semper Nova Romana Ero" what I am really saying is that I freely
> offer my love, sincerity, and loyalty to each and everyone of you because we
> have chosen to make this journey together and I know even when you do not or
> when doubt it that we will be successful.
>
> Valete quam optime,
>
> Gaia Maria Caeca
>
> (Dictated to L. Iulia Aquila 11Mar2011)
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83644 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Tsunami in the Pacific
Ave!

I know we have a citizen in Guam...I spoke to him...but I can't remember his
name at the moment...I hope he is Ok as well!

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 12:53 PM, Ty Sponchia <muskegcorner@...>wrote:

>
>
> Hail,
>
> I am currently in Hawaii; all is well here. The tsunami did little damage
> and no loss of life. As the only citizen in Hawaii i will make a report to
> the Senate when all the information comes in. I have offered thanks to the
> Gods for the safety of the Islands and it peoples as well as offering
> prayers to those lost and harmed in Japan.
>
> May Mercury bless the Senate and the people of Nova Roma.
>
> Titus Sicinius Metellus
>
> --- On Fri, 3/11/11, luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...>
> wrote:
>
> From: luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Tsunami in the Pacific
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Received: Friday, March 11, 2011, 8:20 AM
>
>
>
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> In the wee hours of the morning I was speaking with our Augur Agricola as
> earthquakes (8.8 plus many violent aftershocks)rocked Japan accompanied by a
> tsunami that hit the coast. Agricola assured me that while there was some
> shaking going on he is in a relatively safe area.
>
> Now a tsunami is heading for Hawaii and the west coast of the US. In the
> past few years we have heard of the possibility of this happening and now it
> is here, I only hope, I pray, as it approaches America's shore, that is is a
> small tsunami with minimal damage and no life lost.
>
> I do not know if we have any citizens in Hawaii but if anyone has such
> knowledge please touch base with them and let us know.
>
> Messalina, Vestal Virgin, and Senator Maximus both live in California and
> my thoughts and prayer go out to them. I do know there are other cives as
> well but I can't recall their names at this moment.
>
> Romans you are on my mind and you have been remembered to the Gods in my
> morning ritual when I implored Them to keep you safe.
>
> Valete optime,
>
> Julia
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83645 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: ADMISSION OF AN INTERCESSIO in Bad Latin?
Q. Fabius Maximus Memmio s..d.

(see that I have correctly typed every letter of your cognomen : 4 seconds)
I understand that values seem being more and more relative here.

But do you? Here we just went through hades last year are recovering and
because of two well meaning but ill-advised utterances the government was
paralysed. At your hands. And both IMO un necessary. A warning before the
Senate would have fixed the problem. But no, you would just rather
blindside the offenders for maximum impact, then retreat behind your official
skirts. How was this different from Valeria's antics?
If I understand you correctly, you take the time to check your English
before you post, and you are giving the impression that Senator Galerius does
not since he is an obvious lout. I do not believe that's true.
First off I have seen your cogonomen spelled three different ways in my
time in NR.
Second while I appreciate that Senator Galerius could have gone to your
website and looked up your full Roman name, time as I understood was at the
essence to the whole veto it was the 11th hour of the allowance given, and
the Tribunes were trying to get it out there, right?
No matter, that the spelling of the cogonomen was miss spelled as I said
how many members of Gens Memmi are Censors?
Nowhere in the Vedian Constitution does it says that names must be spelled
perfectly, nor even Romanized names must be used.
For you not to accept the veto in the spirit given was ill-mannered to say
least, and made you appear to be a intellectual snob.

And if that is the way that you wish the People to view you,
congratulations, you succeeded admirably.

Now, let us move forward.

Valete



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83646 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Tsunami in the Pacific
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica T. Sicinio Metello quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Hail,
>
> I am currently in Hawaii; all is well here. The tsunami did little damage and
> no loss of life. As the only citizen in Hawaii
>
> ATS: You are not the only citizen in Hawaii. M. Martianius Lupus, a
> graduate of the Grammatica Latina courses who is participating in the Certamen
> Latinum, is in Honolulu (or was, the last I had heard) and there are other
> citizens there. Not many perhaps, but others.
>
>
> i will make a report to the Senate when all the information comes in. I have
> offered thanks to the Gods for the safety of the Islands and it peoples as
> well as offering prayers to those lost and harmed in Japan.
>
> May Mercury bless the Senate and the people of Nova Roma.
>
> ATS: Perhaps Neptunus should be invoked, but I leave that matter to those
> more familiar with such matters.
>
> Titus Sicinius Metellus
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> --- On Fri, 3/11/11, luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...
> <mailto:luciaiuliaaquila%40hotmail.com> > wrote:
>
> From: luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...
> <mailto:luciaiuliaaquila%40hotmail.com> >
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Tsunami in the Pacific
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> Received: Friday, March 11, 2011, 8:20 AM
>
>  
>
> Salvete Omnes,
>
> In the wee hours of the morning I was speaking with our Augur Agricola as
> earthquakes (8.8 plus many violent aftershocks)rocked Japan accompanied by a
> tsunami that hit the coast. Agricola assured me that while there was some
> shaking going on he is in a relatively safe area.
>
> Now a tsunami is heading for Hawaii and the west coast of the US. In the past
> few years we have heard of the possibility of this happening and now it is
> here, I only hope, I pray, as it approaches America's shore, that is is a
> small tsunami with minimal damage and no life lost.
>
> I do not know if we have any citizens in Hawaii but if anyone has such
> knowledge please touch base with them and let us know.
>
> Messalina, Vestal Virgin, and Senator Maximus both live in California and my
> thoughts and prayer go out to them. I do know there are other cives as well
> but I can't recall their names at this moment.
>
> Romans you are on my mind and you have been remembered to the Gods in my
> morning ritual when I implored Them to keep you safe.
>
> Valete optime,
>
> Julia
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83647 From: Ty Sponchia Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: Tsunami in the Pacific
Neptune? I had considered thanking Him but He rules the seas, and Mercury has long been my protector in trade and body.
Neptune always gets his due from me as do the local Gods. I am not remiss in my devotions.

Titus Sicinius Metellus

--- On Fri, 3/11/11, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:

From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Tsunami in the Pacific
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Received: Friday, March 11, 2011, 2:35 PM







 









>

>

> A. Tullia Scholastica T. Sicinio Metello quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

>

>

> Hail,

>

> I am currently in Hawaii; all is well here. The tsunami did little damage and

> no loss of life. As the only citizen in Hawaii

>

> ATS: You are not the only citizen in Hawaii. M. Martianius Lupus, a

> graduate of the Grammatica Latina courses who is participating in the Certamen

> Latinum, is in Honolulu (or was, the last I had heard) and there are other

> citizens there. Not many perhaps, but others.

>

>

> i will make a report to the Senate when all the information comes in. I have

> offered thanks to the Gods for the safety of the Islands and it peoples as

> well as offering prayers to those lost and harmed in Japan.

>

> May Mercury bless the Senate and the people of Nova Roma.

>

> ATS: Perhaps Neptunus should be invoked, but I leave that matter to those

> more familiar with such matters.

>

> Titus Sicinius Metellus

>

> Vale, et valete.

>

> --- On Fri, 3/11/11, luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...

> <mailto:luciaiuliaaquila%40hotmail.com> > wrote:

>

> From: luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...

> <mailto:luciaiuliaaquila%40hotmail.com> >

> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Tsunami in the Pacific

> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>

> Received: Friday, March 11, 2011, 8:20 AM

>

>  

>

> Salvete Omnes,

>

> In the wee hours of the morning I was speaking with our Augur Agricola as

> earthquakes (8.8 plus many violent aftershocks)rocked Japan accompanied by a

> tsunami that hit the coast. Agricola assured me that while there was some

> shaking going on he is in a relatively safe area.

>

> Now a tsunami is heading for Hawaii and the west coast of the US. In the past

> few years we have heard of the possibility of this happening and now it is

> here, I only hope, I pray, as it approaches America's shore, that is is a

> small tsunami with minimal damage and no life lost.

>

> I do not know if we have any citizens in Hawaii but if anyone has such

> knowledge please touch base with them and let us know.

>

> Messalina, Vestal Virgin, and Senator Maximus both live in California and my

> thoughts and prayer go out to them. I do know there are other cives as well

> but I can't recall their names at this moment.

>

> Romans you are on my mind and you have been remembered to the Gods in my

> morning ritual when I implored Them to keep you safe.

>

> Valete optime,

>

> Julia

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83648 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Re: To Novi Romani: A Letter from Maria Caeca
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Juliae Aquilae C. Mariae Caecae (si adsit)
> quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Salvete omnes
>
> I have said before that I am and will always be a Nova Romana. I have always
> made it clear that I am deeply loyal to and deeply committed to our goals and
> institutions our ideals and the sublime project of creating not only a place
> where we may joyfully express our worship of the Gods but a Roman state deeply
> true to its roots and yet strong enough, flexible enough, and vibrant enough
> to function and function well in our modern world. We have chosen how to
> govern ourselves and we do, but I have realized also that although our roots
> may reach far into antiquity at the foundation of every institution, every
> Nova Roman institution, at the heart of our senate, in soul of our collegium
> pontificum and at the core of our very being are not just ideals and
> principles but people, specifically You. Each and Everyone of You is a part of
> the very essence of what we are and so when I say "Nova Romana Sum Semper Nova
> Romana Ero" what I am really saying is that I freely offer my l ove,
> sincerity, and loyalty to each and everyone of you because we have chosen to
> make this journey together and I know even when you do not or when doubt it
> that we will be successful.
>
> Valete quam optime,
>
> Gaia Maria Caeca
>
> (Dictated to L. Iulia Aquila 11Mar2011)
>
> ATS: Amicae, I am delighted to see that our Caeca is well enough to
> dictate a letter and has shared it with us. As always, she is a true Roman.
> May her health continue to improve and may that laptop be provided to her so
> that she can better communicate with all of us, and may her vision of NR come
> true. We will succeed if we maintain that vision, and refrain from going at
> each others¹ throats and seeing everything in political terms. Otherwise, we
> may not.
>
> Valete.
>
>
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83649 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764 - Triclinium chat
Salvete omnes

How quickly the days seem to be passing. We are now getting towards the end of the Ludi, but what Ludi they have been! We have made new friends, and what had started out as just a few of us is now a growing group. By meeting our fellow citizens through the Ludi, we will clearly never be short of good friends through all our lives in Rome.

What's more, our pleasures do not end with the day's contests, for we have an evening's appointment that could not be missed. And so again today we have hastened towards the street in which there was the tavern called The Eagle, where we had taken over the back room with the three couches and the small table. As we reached the corner we spotted ahead of us the two familiar figures of Merlinius and Parnesius, the Centurion of the Seventh Cohort, and we hurried to catch them up.

The landlord greeted us warmly. We had brought him good trade, and he had made a special effort to make us welcome. The fire burned brightly in the hearth, and the oil lamps brightened the room. We were all in the mood for a good story, and we all decided we wanted something special.

"Please tell us about Diana, the huntress" we asked. Merlinius smiled. Clearly he could remember something about her, and we again wondered where his arcane knowledge came from. He needed a few moments to collect his thoughts, which gave us just enough time to call for the usual jugs of Falernian wine, and the servant brought them over to us. We all settled back comfortably on the couches, and Merlinius began to tell his tale.

"Ah yes, Diana. That darling girl, forever young, forever beautiful, forever a virgin. I seem to recall that she always wore a flowing white dress, or at least that is what I remember. It has been a very long time". What was it about this strange old man? How old was he? Did he actually know Diana, or were his thoughts getting confused because he is so old? Perhaps we would never know, and perhaps we would never really get to know and understand him. Still, he was a friend of Rome, and a friend of the Eagles that protected his own land, and that was enough.

"She had very pale skin, almost white, and when she was younger she had very dark, flowing, glossy hair. Her white dress and dark hair reminds me of moonlight, which she loved. I knew her as a moon goddess, as well as the goddess of the hunt. But she was not like her sister, Hecate, who some people confuse with her. In Britannia they call her Britomartis."

Merlinius sipped his wine, and continued his story. "She fell out with Iuno, who hit her with her own bow and sent her running back to her mother scattering arrows as she ran. Her bow was made of pearl, her quiver of shining crystal, and her arrows were made of moonbeams. That is rather like her brother, Apollo, whose arrows are made of the rays of the sun. Sometimes she wears the skins of the animals she has hunted, but she always has a small diadem made of moonbeams on her head. She was always surrounded by her dogs, and behind her were often some stags or deer that she liked to hunt".

While we marvelled at the image Merlinius had woven, he took another draught of his wine before continuing.

"She fell in love with a shepherd, called Endymion. She saw him sleeping one night, and he looked so perfect that she knew she wanted to marry him. Because she wanted him to stay young and handsome forever, she asked Iuppiter, greatest and best, to allow the shepherd to remain like that always. But you must always be careful what you ask the gods for, and how you phrase your request. Iuppiter, greatest and best granted her request, but from then on, although he never grew old, Endymion was always asleep so he never knew Diana's love for him, and she was never able to marry him. She would watch over him every night as he slept, and she kissed him and she made his flock increase, and guarded his sheep and lambs from the wild beasts. But she remained forever a pure virgin, always seeking for but never finding her true love. From then on, her face was always a mixture of desire and despair".

We looked at one another sadly after hearing this story of love that would never die but could never really live. Merlinius's face had creased a little as he remembered the sadness of this goddess who he obviously loved. Still, he took a few sips of Falernian, and, thus fortified, he continued.

"Diana and her nymphs lived in a cave in a holy precinct, and none dared to trespass into their sanctuary. But one man was curious to see her, and that was Actaeon. He too was a huntsman, and, in the middle of the day's hunting he left his hounds and wandered off into the forest, enchanted by the clear sweet air and the sound of running water and girls laughing. He came to the pool where Diana and her nymphs were bathing, and pushed through the last of the ferns and branches to see them. In an instant a splash of water flew out of the pool and hit his eyes, and he stumbled blindly. He put up his hands to feel his head, but he could feel only antlers growing from his forehead. He staggered back to the brook he had been following, knowing it would take him back out of the forest, and was aghast to see that his reflection was that of a stag. He knew he would soon be back to the place where he had left the other hunters, when suddenly he heard the sound of a horn, and the baying of his hounds. He tried to call out, but only made the roar of a hunted stag. His antlers caught in the branches, and the dogs were on him, his own dogs. They tore him down, and so he paid for his intrusion into the realm of the goddess".

We all gasped at the ending of the story. Diana seemed destined always to remain a pure virgin, never to find love or know a man. "Yes, said Merlinius, she would always be pure and a virgin. Her glossy black hair turned silver, like the moonlight, and she always remained just like the moon, unattainable, always looking down on the earth, always to be worshipped and revered from afar, but never to be held and loved by a man.

Merlinius had nearly finished his wine, so he took a last sip and went on. "She ruled the oceans. The moon, which is part of her realm, causes the tides to flow in and out every day. She shares the skies with her sister Luna, just as she shares the depths and the underworld with Hecate. Her purity and whiteness shine as brightly as her arrows, and she defends the earth through her hunting, which keeps the flocks and the people safe from all who would attack them. And so men loved and feared her as a goddess, but never knew her as that bright pure, untouched girl which she was. Her image will remain unchanged forever, and Britannia will one day have a queen who will adopt her image and again inspire her people by her might, majesty and purity and strength to defend her kingdom. But I can't talk of those things. It is enough for you to know that Diana is the huntress who gives us the strength to survive the changes that would steal our dreams"

He finished his jug of wine, and ended his story. "She has a special place in protecting women, and women often pray to her for their protection and safety. She is not only a goddess of Rome, but of all the Latins, and all the places where Rome rules. She has been, and will be, revered and worshipped throughout all time".

We were all left to think about the magic in Merlinius's story. We could see in his shining eyes that he could read our thoughts, and we could only wonder how much magic Merlin actually knew.

"Come on, you old devil" said Parnesius. "You have given your friends quite enough to think about for one evening. I've already heard the trumpet summoning the guard to their posts, so let's go out in that bright moonlight and see that they are about their duties".

And off they went into the night.

Valete omnes

Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83650 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: Certamen Latinum: Interim Results and Answers to Question # 6
SALVETE, QUIRITES!

Yesterday I was unable to put the answers on our website, and due to several technical and timing problems I could not prepare the part time results announcement, either. Now I present the missing details.

ANSWERS TO QUESTION 6

See the answers to Question 6 on our website:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXIV/Certamen_Latinum#Answers_6

RANKINGS - PART TIME RESULTS

(Counted up to the 7th Question, which is still possible to send in, together with Question # 8, so the rankings may change within the next hours.)

1st - M. Martianius Lupus - 249 pts
2nd - P. Annaeus Constantinus Placidus - 245 pts
3rd - M. Pompeius Caninus - 202 pts
4th - L. Lucretius Caupo - 146 pts
5th - T. Octavius Silvanus - 76 pts
6th - V. Valerius Volusus - 39 pts
7th - Demetria of Chicago - 19 pts

Wow, what a courageous lady! A true grit among us, a peregrine, non-citizen, Demetria of Chicago, entered the race! We are now in seven! I would be much gladder if we had 77 competitors, but let's face the fact, our Romans are not brave enough today to get some knowledge about their spiritual Mother Tongue, our national language, the Latin. So let's chant 77 resounding "hails" to Demetria, who is not even a Nova Roman, but is a better Roman than many. ;-)

M. Martianius Lupus still sits on the throne, but P. Placidus like a wolf is attacking in his foot prints. How exciting! Who will win at the end? Everything is possible right now. Pompeius is strongly in aming the first ones since the beginning of the Certamen, and L. Lucretius Caupo produces a steady high quality. One day is missed by the first ones, and Caupo or Pompeius will take the lead. Even Silvanus and Volusus and Demetria can cause surprises, and right now everything is possible. Silvanus is doing very well, Volusus started excellently.

Encourage our Latin competitors, Quirites!

What an exciting race!

VALETE!






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83651 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-11
Subject: De Caecá
A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

[re-sent as I got an error message in Portuguese...]

I just got off the phone with Caeca; we spoke for almost an hour! She
sounds much, much stronger, and was able to stand up today for about 10
minutes. She is having therapy at the hospital, and is also being
introduced to real food; she anticipates release to rehabilitation in about
a week.

She sends her love to everyone, and misses all of us greatly.

Valete.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83652 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI - Certamen Latinum # 9
SALVETE, QUIRITES!


YESTERDAY'S QUESTION (No 8) IS STILL FREE TO ANSWER AND SEND UNTIL TOMORROW NIGHT.
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXIV/Certamen_Latinum#March_10th_-_Day_10_of_the_Ludi_Novi_Romani_.E2.80.93_Question_8_of_the_Certamen_Latinum

Participate
and try to learn a bit about Latin. It's not a problem if you can't
answer all questions! The Latin Contest is there for fun, and for
learning. "Winning" is just a side effect of the Contest, but if you win, you
will do GET A PRICE.  But if you answer 2-3
questions from all, that's totally fine. When answering, I'll send you
the corrections, and this way you will be informed if you managed to do
it well. It gives you some Latin exercise, and a bit reflection to where
are you at Latin. So I encourage EVERYONE, participate in these
Quizzes. When you have a
few time, answer questions, and you'll get corrected, and you learned
something, like in school. This is why we are here in Nova Roma.
Constant learning. This is the most
important thing what NR can provide you with.

ANSWERS TO QUESTION 7

See all answers to Question # 7 on our website:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXIV/Certamen_Latinum#Answers_7

RANKINGS - PART TIME RESULTS

RANKINGS - PART TIME RESULTS

1st - P. Annaeus Constantinus Placidus - 292 pts
2nd - M. Martianius Lupus - 249 pts
3rd - M. Pompeius Caninus - 240 pts
4th - L. Lucretius Caupo - 146 pts
5th - T.
Octavius Silvanus - 76 pts
6th - V. Valerius Volusus - 39 pts
7th - Demetria of Chicago - 19 pts

I told you so, I TOLD YOU SO! Quirites, I told you this is an exciting race, and what happened! For Question # 8 it's Placidus alone so far who sent the answers to me, so he got points alone for the Question # 8 (which are still open to answer). Now, after a long struggle for the first place, P. Annaeus Placidus left the excellent Lupus behind. What will happen now, is there a chance for Lupus? Will he regain his position? Who will win? I think Pompeius and Caupo are still among the great possibilities. One day is missed by the first ones, and Caupo or Pompeius
will take the
lead. Even Silvanus and Volusus and Demetria can cause surprises, and
right now everything is possible. Silvanus is doing very well, Volusus
started excellently.

Encourage our Latin competitors, Quirites!



TODAY'S QUESTION:
       

March 11th - Day 11 of the Ludi Novi Romani – Question 9 of the Certamen Latinum

I. INTRODUCTION 9 - The Subjunctive

We stared with the dictionary forms of Latin
nouns and verbs, since without knowing them there's no way to use the Latin words in sentences. We declined nouns, and conjugated
verbs in the Present in all three Past Tenses (Imperfect, Perfect, Pluperfect), and we composed simple Latin
sentences with
adjectives and adverbs.
 
Today we learn about the formidable Subjunctive Mood, hardest things in all Latin studies, nightmare of all Barbarians :) Some think it was the Roman weapons that won the Barbarians, but Latinists will tell you, it was the Subjunctive - when Barbarian peoples tried to learn Latin, it killed them all. But I think you will see soon that Subjunctive is not at all as formidable as it might seem, and after a bit of practicing, you'll see the myths around the Subjunctive are just fairy tales, and we'll eat Subjunctive for breakfast.

But let's start from the beginning. What does the Subjunctive Mood mean?

The Subjunctive is a verb mood typically used in subordinate clauses to express a wish, hope, possibility, condition, uncertainty, opinion, necessity, or action that has not yet occurred. It is sometimes referred to as the Conjunctive Mood, as it often follows a
conjunction.

English has a very shy Subjunctive which appears only in a few situations visibly, but sometimes it's there even if the verb does not show it. Examples of English Subjunctives are the following:

"I wish he were here." (In Indicative it would have been "He is here.")

The teaches insisted that the homework be ready." (In Indicative it would have been "The homework is ready.")

"Were" is not Past, and "be" is not infinitive, but both are Subjunctives here. English uses two main Subjunctive forms, the Present Subjunctive (it be, it go, it come) and the Past Subjunctive (it were, it went, it came), which look identical to the normal Indicative forms. These forms, however, sound archaic to the modern English speakers, and in most of the sentences, when Latin uses Subjunctive, English uses auxiliary
verbs like, "may", might", "would", "should", "can", or "could". These are expressed in Latin by the Subjunctive.

Latin uses four Subjunctive Tenses, Present Subjunctive, Imperfect Subjunctive, Perfect Subjunctive and Pluperfect Subjunctive. Let's see what they are there for, and what each of these Subjunctive Tenses mean.

Since it's getting to be very high octane number Latin knowledge, I suggest you review all past lessons on our Certamen Latinum webpage:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXIV/Certamen_Latinum


1. The Subjunctive Present

You use Subjunctive Present (e.g. "Dicam") when English uses the auxiliary verbs "let" ("Let me say it"), "may" ("May I say it") or, mainly in subordinate clauses, when English uses Present Subjunctive or Imperative ("Imperat ut dicam": "He orders I say"; or "Dicas": "Say it"). 

This tense is formed from the 2nd dictionary part, by cutting off the infinitive endings "-are", "-ére", "-ere" and "-ire",
and replacing them with the personal endings shown in the table on our website,
respectively to the conjugation group to which the verb belongs to.

Learn the conjugation of the Imperfect Tense on our website:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Conjugation#Subjunctive_Present

2. The Subjunctive Imperfect

The Subjunctive Imperfect is used when English uses the auxiliary verbs "would" and "should", "Dicerem" can be translated as "I would say" or "I should say". Sometimes it can also be translated with "could" or "might" as "I could say" or "I might say". In wishes and in conditional sentences, it is translated by English Past Subjunctive ("Vellem dicerem": "I wish I said"); in subordinate clauses, however, it is translated by English Present Subjunctive ("Imperavit ut dicerem": "He ordered I say").

This tense is formed from the 2nd dictionary part, by cutting
off the infinitive endings
"-are", "-ére", "-ere" and "-ire",
and replacing them with the personal endings shown in the table on our website,
respectively to the conjugation group to which the verb belongs to. Practically, the formation of this Subjunctive Imperfect looks like as if the personal endings would be simple attached to the infinitive.

Learn the conjugation of the Subjunctive Imperfect on our website:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Conjugation#Subjunctive_Imperfect

3. The Subjunctive Perfect

The Subjunctive Perfect rarely appears in independent sentences, it's mostly used in subordinate clauses. When it's used independently, it normally translates with the English auxiliary verbs "may have". "Dixerim" can be translated as "I may have said".

This
tense is formed from the 3rd dictionary part, by cutting off the
Indicative Perfect Tense first person singular ending "-í", and replacing it with
the Subjunctive Perfect personal endings shown in the table on our website.
Learn the conjugation of the Subjunctive Perfect on our website:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Conjugation#Subjunctive_Perfect

3. The Subjunctive Pluperfect

The Subjunctive Pluperfect can be translated with the English auxiliary verbs "would have" or "should have". "Dixissem" can mean "I would have said", "I should have said". Sometimes it can be translated as "I could have said" or "I might have said". It is translated by English Pluperfect Subjunctive ("I had said") when it is used in subordinated clauses ("Vellem dixissem": "I wish I had said").

This
tense is formed from the 3rd dictionary part, by cutting off the
Indicative Perfect Tense first person singular ending "-í", and replacing it with
the Subjunctive Pluperfect personal endings shown in the table on our website.
Learn the conjugation of the Subjunctive Pluperfect on our website:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Conjugation#Subjunctive_Present

II. QUESTION 9

Translate
the following complex sentences to Latin, using the the Subjunctive Tenses where they are needed. The Latin
words needed to these translations are given below in their dictionary
form. Use them.


Follow the guidelines here:


http://novaroma.org/nr/Conjugation
http://novaroma.org/nr/Latin_sentence



Be careful, and read ALL information on the pages!


"If he had not neglected haughtiliy the ancient customs of the republic, the good and noble senators would not have killed Caesar in the Roman senate." (12 pts)

si (if)
non (not)
neglego, -ere, -lexi, -lectum (neglect)
haughty (superbus, -a, -um)
vetus, -eris (ancient)
mos, moris, m (custom)
res, rei, f; publica, -ae, f (republic)
bonus, -a, -um (good)
nobilis, -e (noble)
senator, -oris, m (senator)
interficio, -ere, -feci, -fectum (kill)
Caesar, -aris, m (Caesar)
in + ablative (in; inside)
Romanus, -a, -um (Roman)
senatus, -ús, m (senate)

"If you were reading the books of the famous poet Vergil about Aeneas, then you would know many things about Roman history." (11 pts)

lego, -ere, legi, lectum (read)
liber, libri, m (book)
clarus, -a, -um
(famous)
poeta, -ae, m
(poet)
Vergilius, -i, m (Vergil)
de + ablative (about)
Aeneas, -ae, m (Aeneas)
tum (then)
scio, -ire, -ivi, -itum (know)
multus, -a, -um (much, many)
historia, -ae, f (history)
clamo, -are, -avi, -atum (shout)
tuus, -a, -um (your)
nomen, -inis, n (name)
quia (because)
cado, -ere, cecidi, casurus (fall)
de + ablative (off)
arbor, -oris, f (tree)

"Let's write some beautiful poems and show the verses to Seneca because he might wish to read our work." (10 pts)

scribo, -ere, scripsi, scriptum (write)
aliquot (some)
pulcher, -chra, -chrum (beautiful)
poema, -atis, n (poem)
et (and)
monstro, -are, -avi, -atum (show)
versus, -ús, m (verse)
Seneca, -ae, m (Seneca)
quia (because)
cupio, -ere, -ivi, -itum (wish)
noster, -tra, -trum (our)
opus, -eris, n (work)

You may have seen Nero today, but I saw Augustus once, the
first Roman
emperor, and I even heard his speech. (10 pts)

video, -ére, vidi, visum (see)
Nero, -onis, m (Nero)
hodie (today)
Augustus, -i, m (Augustus)
olim (once)
primus, -a, -um (first)
princeps, -cipis, m (emperor)
etiam (even)
audio, -ire, -ivi, -itum (hear)
suus, -a, -um (his)
sermo, -onis, m (speech)

"The censors might have left the curia, because the fathers did not find the magistrates in the building where they should have stayed until the sixth hour of the day. (11 pts)

censor, -oris, m
(censor)
relinquo, -ere, -liqui, -lictum (leave)
curia, -ae, f (curia)
pater, -tris, m (father)
invenio, -ire, -ivi, -itum (find)
magistratus, -ús, m (magistrate)
aedificium, -i, n (building)
ubi (where)
maneo, -ére,-nsi, -nsum (stay)
usque ad + accusative (until)
sextus, -a, -um (sixth)
hora, -ae, f (hour)
dies, -ei, m (day)


III. AN EXAMPLE HOW TO
DO IT:

"If the soldiers of Pompey had fought vehemently, Caesar would not have won." (6 pts)

si (if)

miles, -itis, m (soldier)         
Pompeius, -i, m (Pompey)      

bello, -are, -avi, -atum (fight)        

vehemens, -entis (vehement)
Caesar, -aris, m (Caesar)            
non (not)
vinco, -ere, vici, victum (win)         

-
you will easily identify "would not have won" as Subjunctive Pluperfect if you check the introduction about the Subjunctive. "Would have" (or "might have" and "should have") is usually Subjunctive. Since the first clause is introduced by "if", you are right to suspect that is a subordinate clause.
- You can also learn from the introduction that "had fought" is probably an English Pluperfect Subjunctive, and Latin translates it with the same construction, with a Pluperfect Subjunctive.
- Thus we have the two predicates translated, both as Pluperfect Subjunctives: "bellavissent" (1 pt), and "non vicissent". (1 pts)
- After translating the subjects in nominative (soldiers; Caesar) (1 + 1 pts), the possessive construction in genitive (of Pompey) (1 pt), and the adverb (vehemently) (1pt), we get the following solution:

"Si milites Pompei vehementer bellavissent, Caesar non
vicisset."


IV. RULES OF THE CERTAMEN LATINUM

One
question a day will be posted, participants must send their answers not
to this e-mail address but to  <cnaeus_cornelius@...>
within 48 hours of posting. Please do *not* post answers to the list!
Answers posted publicly or posted to the wrong address will not be
awarded with points.

The correct answers of the previous day and interim results will be announced together with the posting of the next questions.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83653 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: a.d. IV Id. Mar.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem IV Idus Martias; haec dies comitialis est.

(By the way, I mixed up the dating; as you may have noticed, I called
yesterday "a.d. III Idus Martias", which it was not. I just skipped
from "a.d. VI Id. Mar." to "a.d. III Id. Mar." We're not moving
backwards in time, no matter how reactionary we might be.)

"Silvia, the Vestal, (why not begin with her?)
Sought water at dawn to wash sacred things.
When she came to where the path ran gently down
The sloping bank, she set down the earthenware jar
From her head. Weary, she sat on the ground and opened
Her dress to the breeze, and composed her ruffled hair.
While she sat there, the shadowy willows, melodious birds,
And the soft murmur of the water made her sleepy.
Sweet slumber slyly stole across her conquered eyes,
And her languid hand fell, from supporting her chin.
Mars saw her, seeing her desired her, desiring her
Possessed her, by divine power hiding his theft.
She lost sleep, lay there heavily: and already,
Rome's founder had his being in her womb." - Ovid, Fasti III

"Ascanius was succeeded by his son Silvius, who by some chance had
been born in the forest. He became the father of Aeneas Silvius, who
in his turn had a son, Latinus Silvius. He planted a number of
colonies: the colonists were called Prisci Latini. The cognomen of
Silvius was common to all the remaining kings of Alba, each of whom
succeeded his father. Their names are Alba, Atys, Capys, Capetus,
Tiberinus, who was drowned in crossing the Albula, and his name
transferred to the river, which became henceforth the famous Tiber.
Then came his son Agrippa, after him his son Romulus Silvius. He was
struck by lightning and left the crown to his son Aventinus, whose
shrine was on the hill which bears his name and is now a part of the
city of Rome. He was succeeded by Proca, who had two sons, Numitor and
Amulius. To Numitor, the elder, he bequeathed the ancient throne of
the Silvian house. Violence, however, proved stronger than either the
father's will or the respect due to the brother's seniority; for
Amulius expelled his brother and seized the crown. Adding crime to
crime, he murdered his brother's sons and made the daughter, Rea
Silvia, a Vestal virgin; thus, under the presence of honouring her,
depriving her of all hopes of issue.

But the Fates had, I believe, already decreed the origin of this great
city and the foundation of the mightiest empire under heaven. The
Vestal was forcibly violated and gave birth to twins. She named Mars
as their father, either because she really believed it, or because the
fault might appear less heinous if a deity were the cause of it. But
neither gods nor men sheltered her or her babes from the king's
cruelty; the priestess was thrown into prison, the boys were ordered
to be thrown into the river. By a heaven-sent chance it happened that
the Tiber was then overflowing its banks, and stretches of standing
water prevented any approach to the main channel. Those who were
carrying the children expected that this stagnant water would be
sufficient to drown them, so under the impression that they were
carrying out the king's orders they exposed the boys at the nearest
point of the overflow, where the Ficus Ruminalis (said to have been
formerly called Romularis) now stands. The locality was then a wild
solitude. The tradition goes on to say that after the floating cradle
in which the boys had been exposed had been left by the retreating
water on dry land, a thirsty she-wolf from the surrounding hills,
attracted by the crying of the children, came to them, gave them her
teats to suck and was so gentle towards them that the king's
flock-master found her licking the boys with her tongue." - Livy,
History of Rome 1.3-4

According to legend, Rhea Sylvia (or Rea Silvia) was the daughter of
Numitor, king of Albalonga and descendant of Aeneas. Numitor's brother
Amulius seized the throne and killed Numitor's son. Amulius forced
Rhea Sylvia to become a Vestal Virgin, a priestess to the goddess
Vesta. Vestal Virgins where sworn to celibacy for a period of thirty
years. Amulius forced her to become a Vestal Virgin so that she (and
through her, Numitor) would have no heirs.

The god Mars, however, took a fancy to Rhea Sylvia and raped her,
conceiving the twins. When he learned of this, Amulius ordered Rhea
Sylvia buried alive (the standard punishment for Vestal Virgins who
did not remain celibate) and ordered a servant to kill the twins, but
the merciful servant set them adrift in the river Tiber. The
river-god, Tiberinus found the twins and gave them to a she-wolf,
Lupa, to suckle, and then he rescued and married Rhea Silvia. Romulus
and Remus went on to found Rome and overthrow Amulius, reinstating
Numitor as King of Alba Longa.

The name Rea Silvia suggests a minor deity, a demi-goddess of forests.
Silva means woods or forest, and Rea may be related to res and regnum;
Rea may also be related to Greek rheo, "flow," and thus relate to her
association with the spirit of the river Tiber.

Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83654 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] De Caecá
Bona dia!

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:37 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica wrote:
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> [re-sent as I got an error message in Portuguese...]
>
> I just got off the phone with Caeca; we spoke for almost an hour! She
> sounds much, much stronger, and was able to stand up today for about 10
> minutes. She is having therapy at the hospital, and is also being
> introduced to real food; she anticipates release to rehabilitation in about
> a week.
>
> She sends her love to everyone, and misses all of us greatly.
>
> Valete.
>

That is a really nice message to wake up to on my Dia Natale...

Optime Vale - Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83655 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: Tsunami in the Pacific
Salve, Iulia
 
Thank you for thinking of us. I, too, was able to get a hold of Agricola and was assured that he is safe and well.
This morning we (my three apprentices and I, and several other women from our community of supporters) will be attending a special service with other people of different pagan faiths - we will be respresenting the Religio Romana, so I am bringing Mola Salsa and honey wine (the staples of the Vestales) to offer as a sacrifice. The service will be for the victims of the Japanese earthquake, tsunami and fires. (Let's not forget that there are several fires burning out of control in many cities.) And now this morning comes disturbing news of an explosion at one of the damaged nuclear power plants and already I hear of people be admitted to hospitals with radiation poisoning. That's all they needed.
Here on the Pacific coast, the bulk of the damage was sustained in northern California and southern Oregon: http://www.npr.org/2011/03/11/134446769/tsunami-warning-wides-to-include-hawaii%c2%a0
Although not mentioned in the above article, there was damage in Morro Bay, which is where I lived last year at this time when we had the tsunami from the Chilean earthquake, but that tsunami was not as strong as this one.
Where I live now in Malibu, I can see the ocean and the first thing I noticed was the absence of seals, pelicans, dolphins and sea gulls, but then it seems animals have far more sense sometimes than people.
Late in the afternoon, we could still see whirlpools off shore that were tainted brown from mud stirred up from the ocean floor. In fact, some people who live closer to the beach than I do told me later that they could smell the mud that was being stirred up by the surges that came in and out with amazing speed. All I can say is if this is what a small tsunami looks like, I never want to see a big one.
Some more good news to add: reports from Mexico and South America say damage was minimal and there was no loss of life. It would seem northern California and southern Oregon got the brunt of it, with only one apparent fatality (that could have been prevented, but I won't go there).
Again, thank you for your concern and for remembering us in your ritual. It was very kind and thoughtful of you. Most appreciated.
 
Vale bene in pace Deorum,
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
 


<<--- On Fri, 3/11/11, luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

Salvete Omnes,

In the wee hours of the morning I was speaking with our Augur Agricola as earthquakes (8.8 plus many violent aftershocks)rocked Japan accompanied by a tsunami that hit the coast. Agricola assured me that while there was some shaking going on he is in a relatively safe area.
Now a tsunami is heading for Hawaii and the west coast of the US. In the past few years we have heard of the possibility of this happening and now it is here, I only hope, I pray, as it approaches America's shore, that is is a small tsunami with minimal damage and no life lost.
I do not know if we have any citizens in Hawaii but if anyone has such knowledge please touch base with them and let us know.
Messalina, Vestal Virgin, and Senator Maximus both live in California and my thoughts and prayer go out to them. I do know there are other cives as well but I can't recall their names at this moment.
Romans you are on my mind and you have been remembered to the Gods in my morning ritual when I implored Them to keep you safe.

Valete optime,

Julia>>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83656 From: Maxima Valeria Messallina Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] De Caecá
That is great news! Thank you for keeping us updated. 
 
Maxima Valeria Messallina
 


--- On Fri, 3/11/11, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:


From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
Subject: [Nova-Roma] De Caecá
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, March 11, 2011, 8:37 PM


 



A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

[re-sent as I got an error message in Portuguese...]

I just got off the phone with Caeca; we spoke for almost an hour! She
sounds much, much stronger, and was able to stand up today for about 10
minutes. She is having therapy at the hospital, and is also being
introduced to real food; she anticipates release to rehabilitation in about
a week.

She sends her love to everyone, and misses all of us greatly.

Valete.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83657 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: To Novi Romani: A Letter from Maria Caeca
Salve Julia et Salvete Omnes:


Thank you for posting this.....

We miss Caeca dearly.


Vale bene,
Aeternia

On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 12:36 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <
luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

>
>
> Salvete omnes
>
> I have said before that I am and will always be a Nova Romana. I have
> always made it clear that I am deeply loyal to and deeply committed to our
> goals and institutions our ideals and the sublime project of creating not
> only a place where we may joyfully express our worship of the Gods but a
> Roman state deeply true to its roots and yet strong enough, flexible enough,
> and vibrant enough to function and function well in our modern world. We
> have chosen how to govern ourselves and we do, but I have realized also that
> although our roots may reach far into antiquity at the foundation of every
> institution, every Nova Roman institution, at the heart of our senate, in
> soul of our collegium pontificum and at the core of our very being are not
> just ideals and principles but people, specifically You. Each and Everyone
> of You is a part of the very essence of what we are and so when I say "Nova
> Romana Sum Semper Nova Romana Ero" what I am really saying is that I freely
> offer my love, sincerity, and loyalty to each and everyone of you because we
> have chosen to make this journey together and I know even when you do not or
> when doubt it that we will be successful.
>
> Valete quam optime,
>
> Gaia Maria Caeca
>
> (Dictated to L. Iulia Aquila 11Mar2011)
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83658 From: Sabinus Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Today We Honor: Mercurius, God of commerce and merchants.
SALVETE!

In the 12th day of the Ludi Novi Romani of the year 2764 a.U.c, the year of the 13th Nova Roma anniversary, we give honor to Mercurius, the God of commerce and merchants.

When Mercurius became identified with the Greek Hermes, he took on the duties of messenger of the Gods, Psychopompus who guides the souls of the dead through the Underworld, and God of sleep and dreams. He also became God of thieves and trickery, owing to a trick he had played on Apollo, by stealing and hiding the Sun God's cattle. His serpent-twined staff, the caduceus, was originally a magician's wand for wealth, but became identified later as a herald's staff.

Mercury's temple in the Circus Maximus, between the Aventine and Palatine hills, was built in 495 BC. This was a fitting place to worship a swift god of trade and travel, since it was a major center of commerce as well as a racetrack. Since it stood between the plebeian stronghold on the Aventine and the patrician center on the Palatine, it also emphasized the role of Mercury as a mediator. Because Mercury was not one of the early deities surviving from the Roman Kingdom, he was not assigned a flamen ("priest"), but he did have a major festival on May 15, the Mercuralia. During the Mercuralia, merchants sprinkled water from his sacred well near the Porta Capena on their heads.

As Sacerdos Mercuri, I performed a sacrifice to Mercurius to obtain his benevolence, praying Him to be willingly propitious with us, to take care about our jobs, businesses and investments, travel safety and bless all with fortune.

This was the ritual:

-----

Favete linguis!

(Beginning of the sacrifice)

PRAEFATIO:

Mercuri,
te hoc ture commovendo bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitius Populo Novo Romano Quirítibus,
mihi, domo, familiae!

(Incense was placed in the focus of the altar.)

Mercuri,
uti te ture commovendo bonas preces precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte vino inferio esto!

(Libation of wine was made.)

PRECATIO:

Mercuri,
hoc die festivissimo ludorum Novum Romanum,
te precor, quaesoque:
uti Rem Publicam Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
confirmes, augeas, adiuves;
utique divitiae, opes, fortunae Populí Noví Romani Quiritium
crescant et convalescant;
utique sies volens propitius
nobis pontificibus, senatui populoque Novo Romano,
consulibus, praetoribus, censoribus, aedilibus,
quaestoribus, tribunís plebis, omnibus civibus,
mihi, domo, familiae!

SACRIFICIUM:

Quarum rerum ergo macte
hoc vino libando,
hoc ture ommovendo
esto fíto volens propitius
populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
nobis, domibus, familiis!

(Libation of wine was made and incense was sacrificed)

Ilicet!

(End of the sacrifice)

PIACULUM:

Iane,
Mercuri,
Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva,
Concordia, Omnes Di Immortales:
si quid vobis in hac caerimonia displicuit,
hoc vino inferio veniam peto
et vitium meum expio.

(Libation of wine was made)
-----

VALETE,
Sabinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83659 From: Sabinus Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Temple of Mercurius.
SALVETE!

Here is the address of Temple of Mercurius:
http://www.dacia-novaroma.org/Temple-of-Mercurius.htm
were you can leave a prayer to Mercurius.

A collection of prayers to Mercurius is available on our web site:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Prayers_to_Mercurius

VALETE,
Sabinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83660 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Today we also honor: Fortuna Goddess of Luck, Fortune, and Justice
Sta. Cornelia Juliana Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.


In this twelfth day of the Ludi Novi Romani 2764, we also give honor and
thanks to another Deity, the goddess known as Fortuna. The goddess of Luck
meaning either or, Fortune, and often personified Justice or as we Romans
would call it "Justitia" one of the most common and practiced virtues.
Fortuna was also an oracular goddess her most known shrine located in
Antium, and also has been depicted as carrying with her the horn of
cornucopia, the horn of plenty. The goddess Fortuna plays a very vital role
in our daily lives, how often do we as citizens encounter Chance?
Whether be it an opportunity or a missed one, an occurrence? How often do we
see the fruits of our labors is it not every day? Nova Roma's existing of
thirteen long years is a testament that indeed luck has been our side. We
thank Fortuna for her continuing cornucopia of Fortuity, we honor her and
praise her constant vigilance of Justice and Prosperity, and we ask her to
continue to watch and guide us over the rocky paths ahead.

Vale quam Optime,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83661 From: Gaius Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: To Novi Romani: A Letter from Maria Caeca
Salvete omnes,

This is very nice and mirrors my own thoughts. Get well soonest Caeca!

Valete,

C. Popillius Laenas


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Julia et Salvete Omnes:
>
>
> Thank you for posting this.....
>
> We miss Caeca dearly.
>
>
> Vale bene,
> Aeternia
>
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 12:36 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Salvete omnes
> >
> > I have said before that I am and will always be a Nova Romana. I have
> > always made it clear that I am deeply loyal to and deeply committed to our
> > goals and institutions our ideals and the sublime project of creating not
> > only a place where we may joyfully express our worship of the Gods but a
> > Roman state deeply true to its roots and yet strong enough, flexible enough,
> > and vibrant enough to function and function well in our modern world. We
> > have chosen how to govern ourselves and we do, but I have realized also that
> > although our roots may reach far into antiquity at the foundation of every
> > institution, every Nova Roman institution, at the heart of our senate, in
> > soul of our collegium pontificum and at the core of our very being are not
> > just ideals and principles but people, specifically You. Each and Everyone
> > of You is a part of the very essence of what we are and so when I say "Nova
> > Romana Sum Semper Nova Romana Ero" what I am really saying is that I freely
> > offer my love, sincerity, and loyalty to each and everyone of you because we
> > have chosen to make this journey together and I know even when you do not or
> > when doubt it that we will be successful.
> >
> > Valete quam optime,
> >
> > Gaia Maria Caeca
> >
> > (Dictated to L. Iulia Aquila 11Mar2011)
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83662 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: LUDI NOVI 2764: Roman Mythology (Quiz Dies 12)
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.


Here are the twelfth set of questions for the mythology quiz.

Please remember to send the answers PRIVATELY (emphasizing not yelling btw)
with the subject header "Mythology Trivium" to MusesDream@... or
phonectically MusesDream ATsign gmail DOT com.


Again send them private e-mail.

Vale Optime,

Aeternia



*Mercury (Dies 12)*
1. True or False. Tuesday is called �Dies Mercurii� (Mercury�s Day)?
2. Identify at least three of Mercury�s counterparts?
3. In Ovid�s Fasti name the Nymph whom Mercury escorted to the
underworld?

*Fortuna (Dies 12)*
1. Who was Fortuna�s Greek counterpart?
2. Fortuna is often described as being veiled or blind depicting which
Roman Virtue?
3. What is the meaning of Fortuna Victrix?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83663 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: De Caecá
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica P. Ullerio Venatori quiritibusque bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Bona dia!
>
> ATS2: I take it that means good day...bonum diem tibi! Good day to you,
> too!
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:37 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica wrote:
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>> >
>> > [re-sent as I got an error message in Portuguese...]
>> >
>> > I just got off the phone with Caeca; we spoke for almost an hour! She
>> > sounds much, much stronger, and was able to stand up today for about 10
>> > minutes. She is having therapy at the hospital, and is also being
>> > introduced to real food; she anticipates release to rehabilitation in about
>> > a week.
>> >
>> > She sends her love to everyone, and misses all of us greatly.
>> >
>> > Valete.
>> >
>
> That is a really nice message to wake up to on my Dia Natale...
>
> ATS2: Yes, it is! Estne hodie natalis tuus? Bonum felicem faustum diem
> natalem tibi exopto, Venator! A very happy birthday to you! Hope you will
> feel inspired to grace us with some poetry someday.
>
> More good news for your birthday: Caeca still has some tubes in her which
> must be removed before she can be discharged to rehabilitation, and must later
> return to the hospital for one more surgery, but it seems that they have
> cancelled the biggie they had planned. She thinks the tubes will start coming
> out around Tuesday. All but the need for another surgery constitute good
> news...
>
> I am amazed at the difference in her in just a few days; when I spoke with
> her earlier, she could barely manage a 12 minute conversation, but this time
> we spoke for about 50 minutes, easily! Her voice was much, much stronger, and
> obviously she had more stamina. The medical people marvel at the speed of her
> recovery, for it was touch and go for a while, and she was gravely ill as well
> as injured.
>
> I think she said her b-day is next month; it would be nice to send her
> sound cards for that; I couldn¹t find any for get well wishes when I was at
> the pharmacy the other night, and none of the standard type of get well cards
> was suitable. She has to have something big and colorful, and loves felines
> of all types.
>
> Optime Vale ­ Venator
>
> Et tibi!
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83664 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] De Caecá
Salve,

Excellent news Magistra!



Vale,
Aeternia



On Friday, March 11, 2011, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> [re-sent as I got an error message in Portuguese...]
>
> I just got off the phone with Caeca; we spoke for almost an hour! She
> sounds much, much stronger, and was able to stand up today for about 10
> minutes. She is having therapy at the hospital, and is also being
> introduced to real food; she anticipates release to rehabilitation in about
> a week.
>
> She sends her love to everyone, and misses all of us greatly.
>
> Valete.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83665 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] De Caecá
Salve Scholastica, Magistra;

Most excellent news about Caeca!

Gratias Tibi Ago!

Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83666 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764: Triclinium Chat (A Tale With a Different Spin
Sta. Cornelia Juliana Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

Today's Triclinium Chat we bring in our second writer, and adding a
different spice to usual story writing. Although I must say Merlinius is
quite the bard wouldn't you say my fellow cives?

This is what you could say is a modern yet ancient Roman Fairy Tale, for
the Triclinium chats I wanted at least one original story depicting examples
of Roman Virtues, I thought today since we are honoring Mercurius & Fortuna,
what better time than today.

Now I wonder how many of you can actually guess who quilled this Tale? ;-)

Now this is me going to stop rambling and on with the story, we hope you
continue to enjoy them.

Vale Optime,
Aeternia (Aedilis Curulis)



*The Tale of Clodia & Stella
*
It was the coming of dusk, and the streets were finally quiet. The
excitement of the earlier day of festivities were coming to an end, and the
extravagance of the Curule Aediles seemed actually
almost appropriate. To put it simply they knew how to put on a good
festival, although Alethia finally made port on one of the last days for the
Ludi.

Alethia was hungry, parched, and needed a place to rest while she
revitalized so that she could go back to her own dwellings aboard her ship,
and sleep safely in the arms of Somnus.


The local gossip was that a Taverna called 'The Eagle' was a good place to
get a warm meal, there were also whispers of a strange man who wears a long
cloak and a floppy hat often accompanied by a Centurion.

As Alethia saw the broken down sign and frayed surroundings, she was almost
hesitant to enter but instinct told her she should go in. The Tavern was
quaint and simple, not too many Tavern girls plying their usual wares. And
the Innkeeper seemed a jolly fellow of sorts. He spoke with warmth and a
gleam in his eye.

"I, see we have a Julian in the house tonight!" said the Innkeeper.

Alethia smiled and couldn't help but chuckle demurely..

"No good sir, I'm afraid you're mistaken" replied Alethia..

"Why those honey golden locks, and those beautiful eyes, surely you must be
a Julia?"

Laughing. "No sir, afraid not, but my ancestors date back to Old Rome."

The Innkeeper looked intrigued with eyebrow raised "Old Rome you say?"

Alethia who drew in closer "Yes, Old Rome to the time of the Kings".

" Why that's a long lineage you be boasting! Tell us more good Matron!"
said the Innkeeper.

Alethia looked around at the crowd who gathered closer, with curious looks
about the exchange that was occurring.

She smiled and simply said.. "Would you like to hear a story ?".........


Long ago in the time of the King,
he had a relative, who had a relative
who in turn also had a relative. Such
were the ways back then in Old Rome.

Once upon a time, there was a little girl
named Clodia, who was surrounded by every
comfort a girl of Royal (by so many distant
relatives ) upbringing could have. Her
Mater Prima made Clodia the center of her
world. And for a span of years, Clodia was
very happy being treated and considered a
"Princess".

The play parties with other girls of Patrician status.
All her dolls and exquisite treats her Pater would
bring to her from foreign provinces.

As Clodia grew older a reverse occurred. She
grew tired of the dolls, the play parties.
Clodia began to request her tunicas
to be in drab colors of black, gray, and other
morose monstrosities. She wore her hair plainly
much to her Mater's dismay.

Prima did not understand her daughter's plight.
Why her only daughter would put up such a fight.

Well one day, while Clodia was languishly brushing
her hair. There was a stir in the wind, Clodia felt
it along her skin, paying no attention to it, she
continued to brush her hair. Then suddenly Clodia
heard a crash in the background.

There was a Woman standing in Clodia's room, with what
looked Wings attached to her. WINGS!!!
Clodia froze in pure astonishment, wondering if this was
all a very bad dream!

When the strange woman spoke "Well aren't you going to drop
to your knees or at least say something my dear?" Clodia reached under
her Tunica and pulled out a dagger. "Who, and better yet what
are you?"

The curious looking woman spoke again. "Why I'm your Roman Fairy-God Mater"!

Clodia looked at the being in front of her and wondered if this was a
horrible
jest concocted by her Mater.

"You're my Roman Fairy God Mater?" asked Clodia.

"Why yes carissima!" said the strange woman like creature.

"How come I have never heard of you like the other Gods?"

The strange woman looked at Clodia and then hesitated..

"Roman-Fairy God Maters are never mentioned, I'm a distant relation to
Cupid, it's Old Rome afterall carissima".

"Right, well Roman Fairy- God Mater, what is that you want?" asked Clodia.

"Stella, that's my name". said the woman.

"Well Stella?" Clodia said sternly.

As Stella began pacing pulling out some strange beaming stick,
apparently a wand of some kind. "Well carissima I'm here to
bring back your inner princess!"

Clodia gasped softly and began to frown, this was definitely her Mater's
involvement. She asked for divine intervention!

Stella chanted some ancient Etruscan incantation, and transformed Clodia's
drab clothing into silks,linens, and wools of all bright colors her hair
was even perfectly coiffed.

Clodia screamed, screaming in utter fury, screaming as if her very soul was
being
torn from her physical being, basically Clodia threw a tantrum of massive
proportions.


"Listen Stella."

"Yes Carissima?" replied Stella marvelling her magical work.

"I appreciate your magical intervention, but it is not needed nor
required."

Stella who was not used to such rejection, merely began to sputter..

"I have made you a Princess again, do you know how many young women
kill to have this opportunity?!?" Stella shrieked.

"Yes, very many, which is all nice and everything, but there's more to being
a person
than looking all nice and wonderful."

Clodia reached out and gently pushed Stella the Roman Fairy-God Mater away.

"So take your wand and your fluff, and find someone else who really needs
to be a Princess."

Stella fumed and said more in rapid ancient Etruscan, and magically
evaporated.

Clodia smiled to herself and decided it was time to go have that Mater-Filia
talk
with Prima her own Mater.

Sometime later it was discovered Clodia eventually married a man of some
known repute,
and lived on the sea happily ever after.


As Alethia's hypnotic voice came to a stop, the crowd began to
draw movements out of the story-like trance, applauded wildly
and returned to what they were doing previously. The Innkeeper approached
with a big grin on his jolly face.

"I must say, never heard of a tale told that way before Madam."

"Yes, well there's a first time for everything. And although this Falnerian
is absolutely delicious, I am ravished for food. I shall order something
now,
since story time is over." said Alethia.

"Oh yes of course! Order what you like good Matron, it's on me." answered
back
the Innkeeper.

Altheia looked again with that look of uncertainty, it's not that she
couldn't
pay for her food, she had the coins. But even she knew not to refuse the
common
courtesies of Hospitality.

"Roasted fowl, stuffed mushrooms, and some warm bread?" Alethia made it a
question.

"On the way." And the Innkeeper bustled off to get the Matron's well earned
meal.

Settling against the cushions, Alethia was content, and she somehow knew
that she
had made at least one new friend. Stopping in Rome during the Ludi season,
mayhaps
wasn't such a bad idea after all.

~~Finis~~


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83668 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-12
Subject: Re: De Caecá
>
>
> Salve, Venator poeta!
>
>
> Salve Scholastica, Magistra;
>
> Most excellent news about Caeca!
>
> ATS: Indeed it is! Not sure of the exact timing of what follows, but she
> said that she felt Vesta¹s arms around her...clearly she is recovering far
> more rapidly than anyone might have expected.
>
> Gratias Tibi Ago!
>
> ATS: You¹re welcome! Happy birthday!
>
> Venator
>
> Vale,
>
> Scholastica
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83669 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: Certamen Latinum
Cn. Lentulus Quiritibus sal.

Please accept my sincere apologies, Quirites, but due technical problems there is a bit time of delay in today's Certamen Latinum question's posting.

Naturally, the time for answering the previous questions is extended until the last ansers and next question are not posted.

Valete!





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83670 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: FW: [Explorator] explorator 13.47
FYI



To: explorator@yahoogroups.com; BRITARCH@...
From: rogueclassicist@...
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 08:53:00 -0400
Subject: [Explorator] explorator 13.47






================================================================
explorator 13.47 March 13, 2011
================================================================
Editor's note: Most urls should be active for at least eight
hours from the time of publication.

For your computer's protection, Explorator is sent in plain text
and NEVER has attachments. Be suspicious of any Explorator which
arrives otherwise!!!

================================================================
================================================================
Thanks to Arthur Shippee, Dave Sowdon, David Critchley,Diane Arnson Svarlien
Diana Wright,Andrew Szegedy-Maszak, Dorothy Lobel King,
Edward Rockstein, Rick Heli, Laval Hunsucker, June Samaras,
Kurt Theis,Charles Pazdernik, John McMahon, Barnea Selavan,
Joseph Lauer, Cressida Ryan,Mike Ruggeri, Richard Campbell,
Richard C. Griffiths, Trevor Ogden,Bob Heuman,
Rochelle Altman, Patrick Swan,Sally Winchester,
and Ross W. Sargent for headses upses this week (as always
hoping I have left no one out).

... hope all those who are in daylight savings time cultures
made the appropriate change if appropriate to your culture
================================================================
EARLY HUMANS
================================================================
Remains of Europe's last Neanderthals?:

http://www.startribune.com/world/117655908.html

Pondering whether Neanderthals were copiers or innovators:

http://www.heraldonline.com/2011/03/09/2896471/stone-tool-troves-point-to-highland.html
http://scienceline.org/2011/03/are-you-smarter-than-a-neanderthal-toolmaker

A 600 000 years b.p. toolmaking site from China:

http://www.zmescience.com/science/anthropology/600000-year-old-discovered-tool-mill-provies-new-homo-erectus-insights/

On tool use and the evolution of the human hand:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110307101504.htm

... and this is a different aspect of human evolution I was utterly unaware
of:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12689692

Review of Clive Finlayson, *The Humans Who Went Extinct*:

http://www.seattlepi.com/books/436941_154743-blogcritics.org.html
================================================================
AFRICA
================================================================
Modern humans may have originated from South Africa:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12665643
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-genetic-analysis-modern-humans-evolved.html
================================================================
ANCIENT NEAR EAST AND EGYPT
================================================================
Ancient Egyptians in Chad?:

http://www.unreportedheritagenews.com/2011/03/ancient-egyptians-made-arduous-trek-to.html

The state of looting etc. in Egypt continues to change on a daily basis it
seems:

http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/egypts-archaeological-sites-stand-unguarded-110309.html

... and archaeologists called for police to step in:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-09/egyptian-archaeologists-call-for-police-to-stop-tomb-looting.html

... just as Explorator went 'to press' last week we read of antiquities from
Qantara East being
transported to the Cairo Museum for safety reasons:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/~/NewsContent/9/40/7070/Heritage/Ancient-Egypt/Egypts-antiquities-moved-for-fear-of-looting.aspx

It seems that Zahi Hawas *did* step down after all:

http://www.voanews.com/english/news/africa/Top-Egyptian-Archeologist-Resigns-in-Protest-117754518.html

... but they did reinstate the Supreme Council of Antiquities outside the
ministry of culture:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/9/40/7208/Heritage/Ancient-Egypt/The-fate-of-Egypts-antiquities.aspx

Interview with Thomas Campbell (of the Met) about concerns for Egypt's
antiquities:

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/art/blog/2011/03/conversation-egypts-antiquities.html

A 1500 years b.p. Byzantine church found southwest of Jerusalem:

http://www.artdaily.com/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=44672

Feature on Lev Eppelbaum's work at locating potential sites in Israel and
environs:

http://www.aftau.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=14094
http://scienceblog.com/43504/scanning-antiquity-underfoot/
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-scanning-antiquity-underfoot.html
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-03/afot-sau030811.php
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110308101447.htm

Mughrabi Bridge latest:

http://www.jpost.com/NationalNews/Article.aspx?id=211203

... and there are renovations going on at the Dome of the Rock:

http://www.jpost.com/VideoArticles/Video/Article.aspx?id=211277

Feature on Bab al-Hawa:

http://www.english.globalarabnetwork.com/2011030710123/Travel/bab-al-hawa-archaeological-gate-linking-syria-and-turkey.html

What Lawrence Schiffman is up to:

http://www.yucommentator.com/new-vice-provost-schiffman-advances-undergraduate-synergy-ideology-1.2067792

Review of Toby Wilkinson, *The Rise and Fall of Ancient Egypt*:

http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/news/books/la-ca-toby-wilkinson-20110313,0,3623024.story
Egyptology News Blog:

http://egyptology.blogspot.com/

Egyptology Blog:

http://www.egyptologyblog.co.uk/

Dr Leen Ritmeyer's Blog:

http://blog.ritmeyer.com/

Paleojudaica:

http://paleojudaica.blogspot.com/

Persepolis Fortification Archives:

http://persepolistablets.blogspot.com/

Archaeologist at Large:

http://spaces.msn.com/members/ArchaeologyinEgypt/
================================================================
ANCIENT GREECE AND ROME (AND CLASSICS)
================================================================
Simon Price's AIA talk on chemical warfare at Dura in back in the news:

http://www.livescience.com/13113-ancient-chemical-warfare-romans-persians.html
http://www.newser.com/story/113638/roman-soldiers-likely-hit-by-chemical-weapon.html

A fourth/fifth century church from Thessaloniki:

http://www.ana-mpa.gr/anaweb/user/showplain?maindoc=9699879&maindocimg=9699436&service=144&showLink=true

Greek/Roman amphorae fragments from Junnar:

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/pune/Amphora-fragments-found-at-Junnar-excavation-site/articleshow/7642967.cms

Remains of a pre-Roman (sophisticated) road from Shropshire:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/what-did-the-romans-ever-do-for-us-if-they-didnt-build-our-roads-2238592.html

Roman remains near Stroud:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-gloucestershire-12676843

Can't remember if we've mentioned the Roman remains found at
Rome's rugby stadium:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2011/feb/27/six-nations-2011-stadio-flaminio

Plans to excavate more of a Roman road which has been uncovered in Dorset:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-12706127

Pre-Classical Greek anchor from off the Campanian coast:

http://www.ecostiera.it/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4032:nei-fondali-dellarea-marina-di-punta-campanella-spunta-unancora-degli-antichi-greci-&catid=43&Itemid=73

A Roman necropolis at Lillebonne:

http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualite/culture/20110311.AFP5408/decouverte-d-une-necropole-romaine-a-lillebonne-en-seine-maritime.html

I think we had this 'reunion' of Pamphilus and his wife a few weeks ago:

http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/pompeii-vesuvius-inscription-110307.html

Classics survives the life raft:

http://www.lanthorn.com/index.php/article/2011/03/staying_afloat_in_the_life_raft_debate

That Cumbria farmer who cashed in on the Roman helmet is 'unchanged' (in
case you were
worried):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-12662829

Mary Beard looks at how differently we look at Roman Women now than in
Balsdon's day:

http://www.historytoday.com/mary-beard/classic-woman

Funding for Northumberland's Vindolanda centre:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-12722236

Feature on Augustus:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2011/mar/12/augustus-roman-emperors-great-dynasties

Feature on laser restoration of the Karyatids:

http://optics.org/news/2/3/8

Atlantis silliness masquerading as National Geographic hype:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/03/110312135018.htm
http://www.wtnh.com/dpp/news/education/conn-scholars-research-into-atlantis-featured

In case you have no idea what the Ides of March is about for some reason:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ac/20110312/pl_ac/8044908_what_is_the_ides_of_march

Review of Bettany Hughes' *Hemlock Cup*:

http://www.nj.com/entertainment/arts/index.ssf/2011/03/post_22.html

Latest reviews from Scholia:

http://www.classics.ukzn.ac.za/reviews/

Latest reviews from BMCR:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/recent.html

Visit our blog:

http://rogueclassicism.com/
================================================================
EUROPE AND THE UK (+ Ireland)
================================================================
A pair of Bronze Age burial pots were revealed when a standing stone in
Scotland fell over:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-12689919
http://news.scotsman.com/scotland/Ancient-burial-pots-discovered.6731401.jp
http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2170758?UserKey=#ixzz1G5jowVbH

They're laser-scanning Stonehenge:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12688085
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/2010052/stonehenge_being_scanned_with_lasers/index.html?source=r_science

cf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxAnanfB_rg

This Celtic find doesn't seem to have made its way to the English press:

http://www.nzz.ch/nachrichten/panorama/opfergaben_in_basler_keltensiedlung_gefunden_1.9756135.html

Finds from various periods during a dig at a pending housing development in
Didcot:

http://www.heraldseries.co.uk/news/hsdidcotnews/8895887.History_unearthed/

A seventh century brooch from Kerry with a Greek connection:

http://www.irishcentral.com/roots/7th-century-brooch-found-in-Kerry-has-links-to-the-early-Greeks-117575713.html

A merman sculpture found in a shipwreck is going on display:

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/8906111.17th_century_merman_carving_to_go_on_display_in_York

Italy's top fifteen cultural exports:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/fast-cars-to-latin-lovers-italys-top-15-cultural-exports-2236961.html#

A Sarup site from Norway (article in Norwegian):

http://www.aftenposten.no/fakta/innsikt/article3846334.ece

Contract archaeology in Sweden threatened?:

http://scienceblogs.com/aardvarchaeology/2011/03/draft_bill_threatens_future_qu.php

Archaeology in Europe Blog:

http://archaeology-in-europe.blogspot.com/

================================================================
ASIA AND THE SOUTH PACIFIC
================================================================
Possible stupa structures from Pune:

http://timesofindia.feedsportal.com/c/33039/f/533915/s/134ef3f9/l/0Ltimesofindia0Bindiatimes0N0Ccity0Cpune0CStupa0Elike0Eblocks0Efound0Eat0Eancient0EPune0Carticleshow0C76843320Bcms/story01.htm

A pile of 7th century or so water reservoirs in central Maharashtra:

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report_archaeologists-discover-ancient-rain-water-harvesting-site-in-maharashtra_1516236

Plans to digitally scan the Rani Ki Vav Stepwell in Gujarat:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-12657410

A roundup of recent finds from China:

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90782/90873/7313517.html

Slideshow of a Ming Dynasty mummy find:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/8361635/Archaeologists-find-Ming-Dynasty-mummy-in-China.html

A 30 000 years b.p. ochre mine in Western Australia has been given
heritage status:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/arts/heritage-status-for-wa-ochre-mine-site/story-e6frg8n6-1226017265120

A pair of 700 years b.p. canoes from the Huong River (Viet Nam):

http://english.vietnamnet.vn/en/arts-entertainment/5793/700-year-old-dug-out-canoes-fished-out-from-huong-river.html

More on that haniwa from Hyogo:

http://search.japantimes.co.jp/rss/nn20110308f2.html

Review of Gyan Prakash, *Mumbai Fables*:

http://www.tnr.com/book/review/mumbai-fables-gyan-prakash?utm_source=The+New+Republic&utm_campaign=a313a68f6a-TNR_BA_031111&utm_medium=email

East Asian Archaeology:

http://eastasiablog.wordpress.com/2010/05/20/east-asian-archaeology-cultural-heritage-%E2%80%93-2052010/

Southeast Asian Archaeology Newsblog:

http://www.southeastasianarchaeology.com/

New Zealand Archaeology eNews:

http://www.nzarchaeology.org/netsubnews.htm
================================================================
NORTH AMERICA
================================================================
A Forida woman was digging in her back yard and found some 2400 years b.p.
bones:

http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/03/08/ancient-human-bones-discovered-in-florida-womans-backyard/

Haven't had a 'lost colony' search for a while:

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/02/27/2088257/finding-the-first-lost-colony.html

... and we've never had a mansard roof story:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/realestate/06streetscapes-mansard-roofs.html

More on those 11 500 years b.p. remains from Alaska:

http://www.adn.com/2011/03/12/1752320/alaska-dune-yields-oldest-human.html
http://www.capitalcityweekly.com/stories/030911/out_796976042.shtml
http://earthsky.org/human-world/ancient-remains-of-a-child-provides-glimpse-into-lives-of-earliest-americans

More on those Channel Islands finds:

http://www.dailyemerald.com/news/university-anthropologists-uncover-evidence-of-ancient-seafaring-community-1.2075453
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-california-islands-evidence-early-seafaring.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/08/science/08obsea.html

Review of Eric Posner and Adrian Vermeule, *The Executive Unbound*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/books/review/book-review-the-executive-unbound-by-eric-a-posner-and-adrian-vermeule.html
================================================================
CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA
================================================================
A monolith from Teotihuacan is going on display for the first time:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=11&int_new=45506&int_modo=1

Maya motifs in various new cave art sites from El Salvador:

http://www.travelio.net/new-archaeological-finds-in-el-salvador.html

Lambayeque/Sican frescoes from northern Peru:

http://www.andina.com.pe/Ingles/Noticia.aspx?id=1WgJjZvIAN8=

More on that reliev from El Tajin:

http://www.artdaily.com/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=45014

Mike Ruggeri's Ancient Americas Breaking News:

http://web.mac.com/michaelruggeri

Ancient MesoAmerica News:

http://ancient-mesoamerica-news-updates.blogspot.com/
================================================================
OTHER ITEMS OF INTEREST
================================================================
Pondering the switch from foraging to farming:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110307/ap_on_sc/us_sci_why_farming
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-03-foraging-farming.html

Interesting item on translating literature of various languages:

http://www.thecrimson.com/article/2011/3/8/translation-nbsp-work-text/

Nikolay Ovcharov is angry with Michael Palin:

http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=126008

Companion piece to the Nimrud Ivories piece (in the Museums etc. section)
all about
Agatha Christie's 'secret life' as an archaeologist:

http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/03/12/uk.christie.writer.archaeology/index.html

Events in Japan occasioned revisiting a 1700 quake there:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Massive+1700+quake+caused+damage+West+Coast+Japan/4425424/story.html

Interesting feature on Arthur Szyk:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/11/arts/design/arthur-szyks-haggadah-and-singapores-sunken-arab-treasure.html

Not quite sure where this one goes ... a huge number of Jewish texts lost
during WWII were found in Manhattan:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/08/nyregion/08books.html

Feature on Montaigne and his essays (semi reviewish):

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/13/books/review/montaignes-moment.html

Review of Francis Fukuyama's latest tome:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/08/science/08fukuyama.html

Review of Robert and Ellen Kaplan, *Hidden Harmonies*:

http://www.npr.org/2011/03/09/134400628/Rhyme-And-Reason-In-A-High-School-Math-Standard
================================================================
TOURISTY THINGS
================================================================
S.C. plantations:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/12/arts/design/charlestons-museums-finally-chronicle-history-of-slavery.html
================================================================
BLOGS
================================================================
About.com Archaeology:

http://archaeology.about.com/

Archaeology Briefs:

http://archaeologybriefs.blogspot.com/

Taygete Atlantis excavations blogs aggregator:

http://planet.atlantides.org/taygete/

Time Machine:

http://heatherpringle.wordpress.com/

================================================================
GENERAL MAGAZINES AND JOURNALS
================================================================
Vidimus (medieval stained glass):

http://vidimus.org/issues/issue-49/news/

================================================================
CRIME BEAT
================================================================
The U.S. returned some items to China:

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90776/90883/7316726.html
http://www.kwes.com/Global/story.asp?S=14234779

I think this is another part of the 'Utah case':

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=45631

A Yemeni embassy involved in antiquities trading?:

http://www.almasryalyoum.com/en/node/344543

A medieval rock monastery in Bulgaria (?) has been vandalized:

http://www.sofiaecho.com/2011/01/26/1031729_oldest-cyrillic-writings-in-the-balkans-vandalised-in-rock-monastery

Looting Matters:

http://lootingmatters.blogspot.com/

Illicit Cultural Property:

http://illicit-cultural-property.blogspot.com/
================================================================
NUMISMATICA
================================================================
A small hoard of gold coins (from France!) from Leicestershire:

http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/news/Golden-wonder/article-3302753-detail/article.html
http://www.metro.co.uk/news/857562-treasure-hunter-strikes-gold-by-unearthing-2-000-year-old-coins

Assorted ancient coins coming to auction:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=45599

Latest eSylum newsletter:

http://www.coinbooks.org/club_nbs_esylum_v14n10.html

Ancient Coin Collecting:

http://ancientcoincollecting.blogspot.com/

Ancient Coins:

http://classicalcoins.blogspot.com/

Coin Link:

http://www.coinlink.com/News/
================================================================
EXHIBITIONS, AUCTIONS, AND MUSEUM-RELATED
================================================================
Andean Tunic:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=45543
http://www.andina.com.pe/Ingles/Noticia.aspx?Id=6O7PtmTESD4=

Nimrud Ivories:

http://www.timesofmalta.com/articles/view/20110309/world-news/3-000-year-old-ivories-go-on-show
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hdfwzg-DEt4WP6MXR2WbS_mZfXJg?docId=CNG.5a4c8cec946c1d67ba07611801ac90e4.c91
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5gFXyxdjz0-YGjaZ6P0sjtEgLz9kw?docId=B24847851299501966A000
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-12675883
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/agatha-christie-the-ivory-statues-and-our-own-indiana-jones-2235172.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2011/mar/07/british-museum-assyrian-treasures-agatha-christie
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1364051/Nimrud-Ivories-cleaned-Agatha-Christie-s-face-cream-display-London.html

Cranach:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2011/mar/08/cranach-exhibition-paris-bellet-review

Cleo:

http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/travel/stories/2011/03/13/royal-treatment.html?sid=101

Pergamon:

http://www.smb.museum/pergamon-panorama_/index.php?lang=en

19th Century Holy Land Photography:

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-0305-beliefs-getty-20110305,0,7922912.story
http://www.palisadespost.com/lifestyles/content.php?id=6469

Picasso:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/11/arts/design/picasso-from-paris-on-exhibit-in-richmond-review.html

Nubia:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=45652

Afghanistan: Crossroads of the Ancient World:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/art-reviews/8368022/Afghanistan-Crossroads-of-the-Ancient-World-British-Museum-review.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/art/features/ancient-wonders-of-afghanistan-2234155.html
http://www.artdaily.com/index.asp?int_sec=11&int_new=45363
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/arts/relics-of-a-treasured-afghan-past/story-e6frg8n6-1226017257691

Pompeii:

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700117599/Pompeii-exhibit-in-NY-shines-light-on-buried-city.html
http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5iQ-t7Zn4jjJlgcBom7wb4WFUVhZA?docId=6139662
http://news.discovery.com/videos/history-pompeii-body-casts-invade-new-york.html#mkcpgn=rssnws1

Tang Treasures:

http://blogs.wsj.com/scene/2011/03/10/discovering-sunken-tang-dynasty-treasures/?mod=google_news_blog
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/08/arts/08iht-singshow08.html

James Watt:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/8367976/James-Watt-Britains-head-of-steam.html

Corn:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/nyregion/06exhibitct.html

The recent events in Egypt are adding fuel to the repatriation of artifacts
issue:

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/11_12/b4220015661759.htm
http://news.discovery.com/archaeology/who-owns-history-egyptian-looting-raises-thorny-issues-110307.html

... meanwhile, there are suggestions Germany just might return that sphinx
to Turkey:

http://www.france24.com/en/20110309-german-hints-will-return-treasured-sphinx-turkey
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-09/hittite-sphinx-may-return-to-turkey-from-germany-minister-says.html

The British Museum is returning some Aboriginal remains:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/03/11/3161066.htm

... as is London's Natural History Museum:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=2&int_new=45633
http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/2011/mar/10/museum-returns-torres-strait-islanders-bones
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12687805
Archaeologists are miffed with the Smithsonian over some Java objects
which were salvaged less-than-responsibly:

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/10/archeologists-criticize-smithsonian-over-java-objects/

Sarkozy's plans for a history museum in Paris are stirring up a debate:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/arts/design/sarkozy-wants-his-history-museum-in-paris.html

Check out our Twitter hashtage for more ancient exhibition reviews:

http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23classicalexhibit
================================================================
PERFORMANCES AND THEATRE-RELATED
================================================================
Prometheus Bound:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/08/theater/prometheus-bound-gets-a-rock-treatment-at-american-rep.html

Jane Eyre:

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/06/movies/06eyre.html

Check out our Twitter hashtag for Ancient Drama reviews:

http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23ancientdrama

... and for Sword and Sandal flicks:

http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23swordandsandal
================================================================
OBITUARIES
================================================================
Ernst Badian:

http://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2011/02/ernst-badian-professor-of-history-emeritus-85/

Edward Ullendorff:

http://announcements.thetimes.co.uk/obituaries/timesonline-uk/obituary.aspx?n=edward-ullendorff&pid=149164948

Douglas S. Parker,

http://hosting-tributes-24744.tributes.com/show/Douglass-Parker-90758249

Anson Rainey (tribute):

http://www.sbl-site.org/publications/article.aspx?ArticleId=871
================================================================
HUMOUR
================================================================
Internet archaeologists have found the ruins of the Friendster
civilization:

http://www.theonion.com/video/internet-archaeologists-find-ruins-of-friendster-c,14389/
================================================================
PODCASTS
================================================================
The Book and the Spade:

http://www.radioscribe.com/bknspade.htm

The Dig:

http://www.thedigradio.com/

Stone Pages Archaeology News:

http://news.stonepages.com/

Archaeologica Audio News:

http://www.archaeologychannel.org/AudioNews.asp

Naked Archaeology Podcast:

http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/podcasts/archaeology/
================================================================
EXPLORATOR is a weekly newsletter representing the fruits of
the labours of 'media research division' of The Atrium. Various
on-line news and magazine sources are scoured for news of the
ancient world (broadly construed: practically anything relating
to archaeology or history prior to about 1700 or so is fair
game) and every Sunday they are delivered to your mailbox free of
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Explorator is Copyright (c) 2011 David Meadows. Feel free to
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links are not to be posted to any website by any means (whether
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83671 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: CLOSING RITUAL TO PAX AND CONCORDIA of Nova Roma
Salvete, Quirites!

This has been the ritual I have conducted today for Pax and Concordia.
Please join into my prayers with your own home rituals, and pray the Peace and Concordance may rule in Nova Roma by creative social cooperation, sense of community and comradeship, sense of togetherness, towards our mission, the restoration ancient Roman religion, culture and virtues.

Together, for our community, together, for our Roman future, together, for a change!

-------------------------------------------------------------

CLOSING SACRIFICE TO PAX AND CONCORDIA POPULI NOVI ROMANI QUIRITIUM


Favete linguis!



(Beginning of the sacrifice.)



PRAEFATIO


Dea Pax,
Pax Novae Romae,


Pax Senatus Populique Novi Romani,


Pax Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Pax civium Novorum Romanorum,


Pax deorum et mortalium,
te hoc ture commovendo bonas preces precor,


uti sies volens propitia Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,

Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,

mihi, domo, familiae!



(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)



Dea Concordia,


Concordia Novae Romae,

Concordia Senatus Populique Novi Romani,

Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,

Concordia civium Novorum Romanorum,

Concordia deorum et mortalium,

Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,

te hoc ture commovendo bonas preces precor,

uti sies volens propitia Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae!


(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)


Dea Pax,

Pax Novae Romae,


Pax Senatus Populique Novi Romani,


Pax Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Pax civium Novorum Romanorum,


Pax deorum et mortalium,


uti te ture commovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,


eiusdem rei ergo macte lacte inferio esto!"




(Libation of milk is made.)




Dea Concordia,


Concordia Novae Romae,

Concordia Senatus Populique Novi Romani,

Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,

Concordia civium Novorum Romanorum,

Concordia deorum et mortalium,

Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,

uti te ture commovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,

eiusdem rei ergo macte lacte inferio esto!"


(Libation of milk is made.)



PRECATIO



Pax et Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,


Pax et Concordia Senatus Populique Novi Romani,

Pax et Concordia Novae Romae,

Pax et Concordia deorum et mortalium,

Deae salutis et gloriae Senatus Populique Novi Romani,

hoc die ultimo ludorum Novorum Romanorum,

vos precor, veneror, quaesoque obtestorque:

uti pacem concordiamque et iustitiam constantem societati Novae Romae tribuatis;

utique Rem Publicam Populi Novi Romani Quiritium confirmetis, augeatis, adiuvetis,

omnibusque discordiis liberetis;

utique Res Publica Populi Novi Romani Quiritium semper floreat;

atque hoc anno anniversario tertio decimo Novae Romae conditae convalescat;

atque pax et concordia, salus et gloria Novae Romae omni tempore crescat,

utique omnes qui se Romanos nominant unificetis,

unum populum unamque gentem omnes qui se Romanos nominant faciatis,

unum populum in Nova Roma omnes Romanos hodiernos colligatis;

utique Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,

Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,

mihi, domo, familiae

omnes in hoc anno quarto decimo Novae Romae eventus bonos faustosque esse siritis; utique sietis volentes propitiae

Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,

Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,

magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,

tribunis Plebis Novae Romanae,

Senatui Novo Romano,

omnibus civibus, viris et mulieribus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,

mihi, domo, familiae!


SACRIFICIUM



Sicut verba nuncupavi,


quaeque ita faxitis,

uti ego me sentio dicere:

harum rerum ergo macte

hoc lacte libando,

hoc ture ommovendo

estote fitote volentes propitiae

et hoc anno anniversario tertio decimo Novae Romae conditae et semper

Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,

Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,

magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,

tribunis Plebis Novae Romanae,

Senatui Novo Romano,

omnibus civibus, viris et mulierbus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,

mihi, domo, familiae!


(Milk with honey and incense are sacrificed.)



(Libation of milk is made)



Mars Pater,


cuius mensis et feriae hodie sunt,

earundem rerum ergo,

macte thure dato esto fito volens propitius

Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,

Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium!


(Incense is sacrificed)



Ilicet!



(End of the sacrifice.)



PIACULUM



Iane,


Pax et Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,

Iuppiter Optime Maxmime,

Iuno, Minerva, Mars,

Omnes Di Immortales quocumque nomine:

si quidquam vobis in hac caerimonia displicet,

hoc vino inferio veniam peto et vitium meum expio.


(Libation of wine is made.)



VIVAT NOVA ROMA ANNORUM XIII !!!


NOVA ROMA XIII !!!


Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,


P O N T I F E X

SACERDOS CONCORDIAE






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83672 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: A Prayer to Pax
Sta. Cornelia Juliana Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

Omnes, as we are winding down this fantastic Ludi, let us take a moment to
observe a moment of Pax. The Goddess of Peace & Harmony.

Below is a beautiful prayer written by Aedilician Cohor member M. Pompeius
Caninus, and I thank him for this wonderful contribution.


*Come, Peace, with your dainty tresses wreathed in laurels,
and let your gentle presence abide in the whole world.
Come, now, to us, the citizens of Nova Roma, with your bounty,
and grant our leaders a glory greater than war.
Teach us to stand and speak with honor and truth.
Bring us closer together, on common ground.
Instruct us on how to listen with empathy and fairness.
Protect us, Peace, and may Nova Roma, with you, last for ever.*

© M.Pompeius Caninus 2764(2011)

Vale bene in Pace Deorum,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83673 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764: Roman Mythology Quiz (Dies 13)
Here are the thirteenth and final set of questions for the mythology quiz.

Please remember to send the answers PRIVATELY (emphasizing not yelling btw)
with the subject header "Mythology Trivium" to MusesDream@... or
phonectically MusesDream ATsign gmail DOT com.


Again send them private e-mail.

Vale Optime,

Aeternia


*Pax (Dies 13)*

1. Who were the parents of Pax?

2.In art Pax is depicted with what three items?

3. Pax is often associated with what season?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83674 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
EX OFFICIO P. ULLERI VENATORI GAII EQUITI CATONI CONSULES

Consular edictum acting under SCU on dual memberships - Number I

A. This consular edictum is issued under the authority of:

1. The Senatus Consultum Ultimum concerning the matter of dual
memberships, passed by the Senate of Nova Roma Inc. as recorded so
passed on 28th of February 2764.
2. Section I.B The Constitution of Nova Roma Inc.
3. Section V.E The Constitution of Nova Roma Inc.

B. Purpose: To apply the relevant articles of the Senatus Consultum
Ultimum on dual memberships (hereafter referred to as SCU DM) to the
citizen of Nova Roma Inc. (hereafter referred to as Nova Roma) named
in C.1 of this edictum.

C. Order:

1. This edictum shall apply to citizen Marcus Moravius Piscinus
Horatianus (hereafter referred to as #432).

2. #432 has authored posts, 83334, 83095, 81456 and 81450 on the
official Nova Roma Forum Romanum Yahoo! list (also known as the "Main
List" or "ML").

3. The content of these posts at (2) are deemed to constitute acts
contrary to Article 1 of the SCU DM, namely that #432 used, and
continues to use, his membership of Nova Roma to create, develop or
promote competing organizations and act negatively towards Nova Roma,
its citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization and actions
through the specific content of these posts.

4. It is further deemed that the specific purpose of such posts at
(2), as well as other posts, statements, communications and activities
made or committed by #432, was and is to injure/damage Nova Roma
through inciting citizens, especially those who are officials and/or
followers of the Religio Romana, to leave Nova Roma and/or join
existing or future organizations whose aim is the creation of a Roman
Republican State.

5. It is further deemed that under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM,
namely the empowerment to take every measure to prevent, avoid or
eliminate the situation created as a result of the acts specified in
(3) and (4) above, that the actions committed by #432 also, and in
addition to situations pertaining to Article 1 SCU DM, constitute the
offence of laesa patriae under section 21 of the Lex Salicia poenalis.

6. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above, the
Censors of Nova Roma are directed, by the authority vested in this
edictum that in turn is based on the authority of the SCU DM, to
immediately upon publication of this edict (or as soon as practicable
thereafter) terminate the Nova Roman citizenship of #432 by
communicating such fact to him at his most currently known active
email address. At the same time as the Censors so communicate the
details of termination to #432, they are further directed to remove
all personal details, photograph(s) and data, including his Nova Roman
name replacing such with "nemo" in all name fields, contained in the
censorial database in relation to #432 and to endorse in that database
as a notation in the record of #432 that the person formerly holding
the Nova Roman name associated with #432 is denied Nova Roman
citizenship, under any Nova Roman name and/or any macronational
identity details, in perpetuity under the authority of Article 2 SCU
DM.

7. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above,
further and in addition to (6), the Censors of Nova Roma are directed,
by the authority vested in this edictum that in turn is based on the
authority of the SCU DM, to take all steps practicable to prevent the
future issuance of the exact Nova Roman name associated with #432, or
the future issuance of the combination of praenomen, nomen and first
cognomen associated with #432. In the event that the exact name, or
the combination of praenomen, nomen and first cognomen, of #432 are
issued to any person applying for or holding Nova Roman citizenship,
then the Censors of Nova Roma shall immediately upon such detection
and/or notification, remove such a name and replace with another
combination that does not violate this prohibition.

8. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above,
further and in addition to (6) it is deemed that pursuant to (5) that
#432 be subject to the sentence of exactio for life as if he had been
duly and lawfully convicted of the offence of laesa patriae by a Nova
Roman court duly and properly constituted under any and all of the
requirements of the Lex Salicia iudiciaria and/or Lex Salicia
poenalis.

9. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above,
pursuant to (8) it is further deemed that all legal appeals against
such conviction and/or sentence, allowed by virtue of the Constitution
of Nova Roma or any lex, have been held, exhausted, with no appeal
recourse of any sort remaining, and that all such appeals failed and
the conviction and/or sentence were upheld.

10. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above, the
Censors of Nova Roma are directed, by the authority vested in this
edictum that in turn is based on the authority of the SCU DM, to
endorse in the Censorial database as a notation in the record of #432
that the person formerly holding the Nova Roman name associated with
#432 has also been deemed to have been convicted of laesa patriae and
is subject to the sentence of exactio for life. The Censors of Nova
Roma are further directed to communicate in the email to #432 at (6)
that he is additionally subject to this aforesaid conviction and
sentence.

11. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above, all
magistrates, governors, officials or citizens of Nova Roma acting as
owners, moderators, sysops, web masters or similar, to or for any and
all official groups, lists, webpages or other communication mediums,
including those such entities aforesaid representing themselves as, or
having the appearance of, part of the official structure of Nova Roma,
are directed, by the authority vested in this edictum that in turn is
based on the authority of the SCU DM, to immediately terminate all
memberships held, rights, privileges and/or access enjoyed, by #432 to
such communication entities aforesaid under their control, ownership
or moderation.

12. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above, the
Magister aranearius shall immediately remove and permanently delete
from the Nova Roman webpage/wiki and/or server, all entries/articles
about the person, career or history of #432, and all photographs of,
or taken/uploaded by, #432, and shall further amend any other entries
or references pertaining to #432 in such a manner that erases such
entries or references to #432 (excluding history logs), or as an
alternative to erasure if required to maintain the linguistic
integrity of the article replacing such incidences of the name of #432
with "nemo". Such proposed replacement, instead of erasure, must be
first reviewed and approved by the Consuls before such an alternative
to erasure is permitted. Under no circumstances shall #432 be used, or
any derivation thereof, as a replacement for the name held by #432.
Any former name(s) held by #432 shall be treated as though it/they
were the name #432 was/were holding at the time this edictum was
published.

13. A failure by any person so directed in this edictum to comply with
such a directive shall be deemed in itself to be an act contrary to
Article 1 of the SCU DM.

14. Under the authority of Section I.B of the Constitution of Nova
Roma, the order of legal precedence of this edictum shall protect it
from the effect of any alteration, revocation, expiration or other
change to any section of the Constitution, or lex, or other legal
authority cited in this edictum. Further, that order of legal
precedence shall protect any act taken by, or in pursuance of, this
edictum from the effects of any such aforesaid changes or other cited
occurrences.

15. Under the authority of Section I.B of the Constitution of Nova
Roma, the order of legal precedence of this edictum shall establish
the only means of alteration, revocation or similar to this edictum
and/or any/all of the directives pursuant to it, which shall be by way
of either dictatorial edict, or by way of consular edictum acting
under the authority of a senatus consultum ultimum.

16. Under the authority of Section V.E of the Constitution of Nova
Roma, and subject only to those provisions of V.E, this edictum, in
whole and/or part, together with any act taken by, or in pursuance of
this edictum, is not subject to any form of intercessio, veto,
interference, obstruction of any sort or authority.

Given under our hands this fourth day before the Ides of March in the
consulships of P. Ullerius Venator and C. Equitius Cato

P. Ullerius Venator
C. Equitius Cato
Consuls
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83675 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Salve et Salvete;

Primus: I would like to thank one and all who sent me good wishes upon
my birthday. Such things help to buoy me up.

Secondly: I am indeed, aware of the content and wording of this
edict, my colleague appended my name with my full cooperation.

Some of the provisions may seem unduly harsh, but (as we have been
urged by some to be) they do appear to me to be fully historical and
Roman in practice. Also, the person named in the Edict has made it
clear that materials, the authorship of which can be attributed to
him, must be removed under his copyrights.

So, in some ways, our hands are bound to much of this action.

As always, I am willing to entertain objections, and my colleague and
I will discuss them. However, I shall not promise that changes will
be made.

--
In amicitia et fide
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator
Consul, Civis et Poeta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83676 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: Nundinal Calendar II: pr. Id. Mar. to a.d. XI Kal. Apr.
Q Caecilius Metellus pontifex Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit.

Saluete, Quirites.

What follows is the calendar for the second full nundinum of the current
sacral year, starting 14 March 2011 through 22 March 2011. As always, I
shall be glad to answer whatever questions may be had.

Our second nundinum of the year consists of the following nine days:

- 14 March 2011 (pr. Id. Mar.): the day is nefastus publicus.
- 15 March 2011 (Id. Mar.): the day is nefastus publicus.
- 16 March 2011 (a.d. XVII Kal. Apr.): the day is fastus, and is a dies
ater.
- 17 March 2011 (a.d. XVI Kal. Apr.): the day is nefastus publicus.
- 18 March 2011 (a.d. XV Kal. Apr.): the day is comitialis.
- 19 March 2011 (a.d. XIV Kal. Apr.): the day is nefastus publicus.
- 20 March 2011 (a.d. XIII Kal. Apr.): the day is comitialis.
- 21 March 2011 (a.d. XII Kal. Apr.): the day is comitialis.
- 22 March 2011 (a.d. XI Kal. Apr.): the day is nefastus.

On all these days, the Feriae Marti are continued, having begun on the
Kalends of the month, and continuing through the 24th. These days are
all dies religiosi (also called 'uitiosi'), very similar to dies atri.

Di Romanis faueant!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83677 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: Re: Nundinal Calendar II: pr. Id. Mar. to a.d. XI Kal. Apr.
C. Petronius Q. Metello s.p.d.,

> What follows is the calendar for the second full nundinum of the current sacral year,

Why do you recall this sort of year when the Romans changed the calendar in 153 BC.
Proof on the Fasti Praenestini:
"Kal. Ian. Annus nouus incipit quia eo die magistratus ineunt, quod coepit post Romam conditam anno DCI."

This reform made by the consul Q. Fulvius Nobilior.

This year 153 BC/601 aUc being the year which began the 6th century of Rome and initiates the new calendar with the January 1st as first day of the year. This calendar had always 355 days but after we had another reform made by the pontifex maximus C. Iulius Caesar himself.

I do not understand why you follow a calendar discarded from 153 BC with the odd name "sacral year"...

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. III Idus Martias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83678 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764 - final day parade
Salvete omnes

Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Nova Roma.

Today the Ludi that we have been enjoying for the past thirteen days have come to an end, and this is the time to say goodbye. The religious observances have been made, and prayers have been offered to Pax and Concordia. The prayers were offered by Pontifex Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus He called for peace, for us, our homes and our families. In another poem that was read out, I was able to hear some of the words, and those that stood out for me was the call to bring us closer together on common ground. I think we really do need to come back together as one family, and forget the strife of the past. The words here were written by M.Pompeius Caninus.

Before we came on air I had been talking to people in the crowd about their visits to Rome and to the Ludi. Everyone agrees that it was a wonderful job, and everyone I spoke to is full of praise for the aedeles and their helpers, the group called the Happy Bees. They have been Busy Bees during the Ludi, but now that everything has gone well and they have reached the end of their labours, they are behaving like Happy Bees. I'm sure they will have a good party this evening.

Now, ladies and gentlemen, what we are going to see today is the final parade, as the magistrates and organisers celebrate their success by walking through the crowds and thanking everyone for being here throughout this great event. I have to tell you that all the commentators who you have heard from have been comparing notes, and we are absolutely agreed that this could only have been done here in Nova Roma, the best state in the known world.

Well, I believe that the parade will soon be coming this way. I have managed to get a lookout point just near where the parade will begin to split up as everyone goes their separate ways. They've made a small detour to the temple of Vesta, to thank the goddess for watching over one of the Happy Bees and helping to restore her. But here they come now.

First I can hear the band playing. They have an escort from the four factiones who have been supporting the various games, and their flags are being held up proudly by their representatives.

But just as they start coming into view, I can see the street boys marching along in front of them. There's one small boy who looks a bit weaker than the others, but he is doing his best to keep up. Oh, look at that, I wish you could see this ladies and gentlemen, the other boys are helping him. Well that's a really good sign of concord and harmony, because these boys often only have thoughts for themselves. Let's hope that is a good omen.

And now here are the Consuls and the Praetors, and here come the Censors and the other magistrates. But pride of place has to go to the Aediles who have organised these Ludi. What a lot of work they have done, ladies and gentlemen, they have worked hard and also played hard. And what's this, ah, its our little flower girl again with her tray full of the freshest meadow flowers, and the crowd are throwing handfuls into the street for Aeternia and her friends to walk on. Aeternia almost seems to be walking on air, so pleased with what she and her team have accomplished. She is smiling and waving to the crowd. And she is beckoning to the Happy Bees, - yes, here they come to salute her. All but one, that is, because Maria Caeca, who worked so hard during the run up to the Ludi, has been unable to be with them. But they have all been thinking of her, and have left a space in their line up where she would normally be. They all have their little Bee ensigns, and are marching along waving them to the crowd. Oh, and I can hear the crowd calling out to them to send their love to Caeca. And of course they are all nodding their heads and promising to do that.

And now we have some gladiators These are the ones who didn't get injured during their contests. They have all fought well, but there always have to be winners and losers, and sometimes chance plays a bigger part than training or equipment. Oh, and that's really appropriate, talking of luck, and chance, and fortune. Here is a wagon with lots of glittery decoration, and the people on the back have big dice and cards that they are holding up so that the crowd can see they are chancing their luck. Some are looking delighted because they have won, but others have clearly been less fortunate because they have got masks with glum faces.

Here is a wagon with a boat on it, and this reminds us of the Naumachia. There are the sailors, oh, and there at the bottom of the wagon are hands lifting up models of dolphins, sea horses, waves crashing against the sides of the boat, oh and look at that, right at the back are four girls dressed as mermaids, who are waving, combing their hair looking in mirrors. They are all sitting on rocks, surrounded by seaweed and starfish. Oh, that is just so clever, ladies and gentlemen. How right it is to see the sea battle remembered in the parade.

And here come some of the merchants. There's a huge wagon, drawn by two of those shire horses, and on the back is – well ladies and gentlemen, you should really see this. That's very clever. The wine merchant's wagon has a great vat, and his girls are dancing on grapes and waving vine branches. They really do look eye-catching, wearing skirts the colour of the must that is foaming around their feet. Some of his other assistants are handing out small tasters and taking orders for delivery. His trade should really have done well this year.

And here come a troupe of horses. These are from one of the livery stables, and they are looking their best. And he next wagon is the baker, with his wagon filled with bread and cakes. That's my favourite honey-cake, and I have managed to get some to take home with me. There is another merchant right behind him, and they have been working so hard feeding the crowds here this week. What a splendid way to show off their wares and keep the crowds fed and refreshed. Their order books should also be very full.

Ah, now we saw those before, its the wild animals, who are being taken to their special areas outside the city. They'll be back for future parades, and we should see them again during the parades. And here are the birds, complete with Aeternia's favourite, the hoopoe, with its great crown of feathers.

There are no soldiers in the parade today, ladies and gentlemen. The Seventh Cohort is preparing to leave for Britannia, and are hard at work making last-minute preparations for their march. We should be able to see their camp when we pass through the gates which are just up ahead.

And here are the dancing girls. Oh, you should see this ladies and gentlemen, the crowd is joining in with their dance, and several small girls obviously want to join this troupe of dancers when they grow up. There's that little boy who we saw earlier. He seems to have recovered from his marching steps, and – oh look – that must be his sister, who has been hugging him, and now she is dancing in the street with the other girls. Oh, what a lovely sight that makes- she looks so carefree and happy – and now she has dashed back to her brother, and their parents are beaming with pride in them both.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, the parade has reached the gates, and its beginning to break up and go its separate ways. So that is the end of the official part of the Ludi. We've all had a fantastic time here in Rome, we've made lots of new friends, we've entered the competitions, we've cheered during the contests, we've remained silent and respectful during the religious ceremonies, and we've joined in the after-hours celebrations.

And I suspect there are more celebrations planned. I can see that Aeternia and the Happy Bees have got something planned. I know that we commentators feel we deserve something to quench our thirsts, and it looks as if the crowd don't want to leave without finding their friends for a last farewell drink.

So goodbye from Rome, thanks for tuning in, and we will see you all at the next set of games here in Nova Roma. Goodbye everyone.

Valete omnes

Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83679 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764 - Triclinium chat
Salvete omnes

It was now our last night in Rome. Tomorrow morning we would all go our separate ways. We would be sorry to leave the friends we had made in recent days, but we had memories to treasure, and we knew that we would all meet up again sometime in the future.

We had all enjoyed the Ludi. We had all entered into the spirit of the competitions, we had all cheered during the combats, we had been amazed at the organisation and spectacle. Truly it showed how great our abilities are, and what we can achieve together.

There were quite a crowd of us on our last trip around the city. We wanted to remember everything, so that we could be sure to get the details right when we were back home, and people would be bound to say "So, you have seen Rome. What is it like?"

A city is more than just buildings. It is the people who give it its life. Without its people a city is just an empty shell. We cannot think of Roma without thinking of the names of the people we know there. We cannot think of those names without thinking of the part they play in the society we call Nova Roma. How wonderful it is to think of our Republic, and its capital city, and the people who dwell there and who we love and care for.

But there are two other characters who we will probably see only once more. We know that the Seventh Cohort are expecting their orders, and that they will march away tomorrow to goodness knows where. And their Centurion, Parnesius, and his old friend, Merlinius, will be leaving Rome for the last time. We were feeling a little sad when our day was drawing to its close, and we walked once more to the corner of the street where the Eagle tavern stood, with its back room brightened by the fire, and lit by the steady glow of oil lamps, and where the three couches were arranged around the low table.

As we turned the corner we spotted our two friends at the door. For once they were waiting for us, so that we knew that they were hoping to see us this one last time.

They greeted us warmly, taking us by the hands and guiding us in. The back room was crowded with friends we had made, and they had already ordered the jugs of Falernian that we knew Merlinius loved.

"What are your orders?" we asked Parnesius. "We go back to Britannia", he replied. We will be picking up and dropping off new drafts along the way, and teaching them what the life of a legionary is really like. then we shall rejoin the Thirtieth. But this will be my final march. I have earned my discharge, and I have my eyes set on a little place in Calleva Atrebatum, where five roads meet and the Legions are always passing. Merlinius will come there with me. He will be happy there because one road leads to the south west, and he can get back in touch with his mountains, and all those places that lie beyond our roads. He has been a good friend to me, but he truly loves the rocks and the wild places, the clouds and mists that swirl over the mountains, the magic places where his own sacred spirits dwell and which is where he goes to regain his strength. But we will say goodbye to you this evening, because we are back under orders tomorrow when we leave our camp, and then there will be no time for goodbyes".

"Did you enjoy your time in Rome?" we asked them. "Yes," said Parnesius, "I certainly did. For my entire life, until now, Rome has been just an idea. I needed to experience it for myself, and, thanks to you and your friends, I have been able to do that. New Rome is only a real place because of its people, so I am glad that I have met so many new friends here, friends who I will never forget".

"What did you make of it?" we asked Merlinius. He sipped his wine, and tasted the strength of the vintage. "Well, I don't much care for cities. All the fine buildings are no doubt very splendid, but, the same as Parnesius, it is the people who make it a real place. And the gods, of course. Those who you have asked me to tell you about, and the others, they are all still alive here because of the love and respect that people have for them. I was glad to see the places where some of those old stories actually happened. I knew about the gods, and the goddesses of course, but the stories go back so far, and they are so entwined by brambles of myth and imagination, that sometimes it helps to visit the places where they now live."

"Of course, they live in many places, not just in Roma. They also live in the moonlight playing through the mists that roll down from the mountains and in from the oceans. They live in the mysterious pools, lakes, forests and stone circles. They live wherever a farmer places simple faith in their power to make the seeds grow and the crops ripen in the fields. They live in the heart of the mother cleaning her hearth and placing a few crumbs as a simple but loving offering. But they especially live wherever their power can be seen in answer to our pleas for their help".

Merlinius took another draught of his Falernian, and continued.

"They are sometimes beginning to become difficult to recognise. Most of them were already no longer young in the old days before Rome. Many are just distant memories from a time when the days before Rome were older than Rome is now. Sometimes men get very confused about them, and muddle them up or change their natures. "

"So I am glad that I have learned something of Rome, and of the Roman people, and of the gods of Rome who are carried to the most distant parts of your world, where they are mingled with our gods and goddesses, and are renewed by the new people who discover them for the first time. Then they feel young and powerful again, as their new peoples take them into their lives, just as their old peoples did so long ago, and just as more new people will do throughout all ages".

"But", he continued, "I shall be glad to get back to my own lands, because that is where my own future lies. I shall eventually have much to do there, but for now it is sufficient that the Eagles march where Rome rules. And, of course, that the people continue to believe in their Republic, and work to ensure that it continues to flourish and grow. You are a proud and talented people, and you have shown it during these Ludi. Hold fast to your beliefs, and prosper."

"Can I just ask about some of the strange things that happened this week?" I asked. "Merlinius took another draught of wine. "Not so strange really", he said. You would be surprised at how much can happen when people want to believe."

"We need to go", said Parnesius. Walk with us to the gates, and we will say our last goodbyes there".

We thanked the owner of the Eagle for his attentive hospitality during our time there, and we all took our leave together.

Valete omnes

Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83680 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: Re: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764 - final day parade
C. Petronius omnibus qui in Foro spatiantur salutem,

> Today the Ludi that we have been enjoying for the past thirteen days have come to an end, and this is the time to say goodbye.

Those games were great, I just enrolled a couple of gladiators, but they were unlucky and both defeated at the first turn! Fortunately, they are alive and I hope they will have more luck the next time.

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Martias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83681 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764: Final Triclinium Chat of the Ludi
Sta. Cornelia Juliana Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

I got a request from an anonymous person to see Alethia make one final
appearance during the Ludi Novi Romani.

Please enjoy the final Triclinium Chat of theLudi Novi Romani.


We as a Cohors hope you have enjoyed the stories, and who knows they may
resurface again sometime ;-)

Vale Optime,
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia



*<<an hour later after Merlinius & Parnesius' departure>>*

As dusk settled into it's warm embrace of slumber, the final hours of the
Ludi were approaching it's decrescendo end. Alethia was sad she wasn't able
to make port
earlier so could enjoy the festivities of the full thirteen days, never has
she heard of Ludi being held for that long. The planning and orchestrating
of such a thing, made
her head swim just thinking about it. The current Aediles deserved a big
hearty thank you for staying sane against the odds.

With trepidation she made her way again towards the Tavern known as 'The
Eagle', it was silly of her to be scared to enter. It wasn't as if she had
not been here before
it's just normally a woman of her ancestral repute should not be seen near
and even more inhabiting such a place. Well certain rules are oft made to
be broken, and besides
the Inn had some of the best Falnerian she's ever had in all of her travels,
and delicious food, plus great company.

There standing by the door was the jolly Innkeeper except this time he
didn't look so jolly, he was polite as he bade me greetings, but the gleam
in his eyes seems to have lost it luster and replaced with a solemn sadness.

"What's wrong good sir, you seem a bit down?" Alethia asked with concern.

"Oh nothing to trouble yourself with good Matron". Replied the Innkeeper as
he escorted me
to a secluded corner, where I could sit down comfortably and not be seen too
visibly.

"Oh come now, you can tell me." Responding back.

The Innkeeper, whose name that I never got, looked in all directions to make
sure none of the other Inn patrons were within earshot. "Well you see, I
lost my best customers, they went
back to Britannia, and now business will be slow again." saying in hushed
tones..

"The odd man with the floppy hat, and his Centurion?"Alethia asked.

The Innkeeper grunted back as a response.

"Well he's been the talk of New Rome, even down by the ports".

" Certainly the games must have promoted some long term business". I replied
not sure what else to say to give comfort to the Innkeeper's legitimate
fears.

"Will you be telling a story tonight my good Matron?" asked the Innkeeper.

Alethia thought for a moment, she wasn't in the mood tonight for
storytelling, more like contemplative. She was going to make amends to the
Innkeeper and offer him a nice
patronage bonus, a security against the slow times ahead. But before she
could do that, she thought asking the Innkeeper for his name might be
somewhat appropriate.

"What's your name good sir?"

"Vinius is what people around here call me, and yours Madam?"

"Alethia."

"Well Alethia all the same, perhaps your story can wait, we're having that
singer from the Naumachia, sing us a tune, so you came just in time. They
call her Aquata not sure what
her actual name is."

"Aquata, surely that must be a stage name" answered Alethia.

As Alethia took her seat and merrily sipped on her flagon of wine, she tuned
all thoughts to listen to the maiden on the impromptu made center stage. The
girl whose tresses were the color of fire and dressed in turquoise, voice
echoed through the suddenly silent Inn.


As Aquata sung, the song was about the hard times of New Rome, the toils and
it's strife, yet it was also about hope, the riding of the storm, and the
promise of a new dawn. A stronger Rome, this song held a promise of hope,
although frail, Alethia felt that strength, and knew it would be true. The
girl was singing what she was seeing everyday, and she was singing in
confidence the survival of her people.

As long as hope remained, what is else is there to loose?

Alethia sat back enthralled with Aquata's siren-like voice and contemplated
staying a while longer in this place known as New Rome.

~finis~


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83682 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764: Closing Speech of Curule Aedile Sta. Cornelia
*Sta. Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.
*

Today we are marking an end to the celebrations of the Ludi Novi Romani, we
have brought Nova Roma to the big *"XIII"* *(13)* and with a jubilatory
bang. At this stage our Republic still has a way to go, in regards to
growing up, we as citizens must brace ourselves against the rocky paths
ahead, and we as one tribe must ride the upcoming storms that are soon to
follow. Although we may fall, and we may fall hard. We will also rise
stronger and unable to be bent, we remain unbroken, in the end we remain
Roman.

My colleague and I along with the members of the Aedilician Cohors, would
like to thank all the citizens, magistrates, senators, and religious
officials, who joined and helped celebrate bringing in our beloved Republic
to a very special milestone.

Bidding farewell to the Ludi Novi Romani, and urging everyone to Carpe
Noctem.

I hereby declare the Ludi Novi Romani 2764 --*CLOSED*


*Gratias vobis ago,
Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia
Aedilis Curulis Maior Novae Romae*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83683 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: And Here Come The Thank-You's
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.


Now that the Ludi are over, it's that time to give accolades, and
expressions of gratitude to those who without their help, this Ludi would
not have been possible.

Primus: To the Aedilician Cohors (The Happy Bee's) the Scribae who work with
me and the colleague and help bring our visions to fruition *snaps major
kudos and gives applause*

Secondly: Our special group of Volunteers, who rock *more applause*

Third: To the Religious Officials & The Tribuna Plebis who performed various
rituals throughout the Ludi: T. Iulius Sabinus, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, V.
Rutilia Enodiaria, and L. Iulia Aquila

Fourth: To those who contributed prayers, and informative speeches (i,e. C.
Equitius Cato, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, Q. Caecilius Metellus, L. Iulia
Aquila, M. Pompeius Caninus)

And of course everyone who has been supportive throughout this Ludi, you
know who you are, my colleague and I give our gratitude.

I'm wrapping this up before it becomes super long and I'm somehow appearing
to be thanking "The Academy"...

Thank you again everyone and we'll see you at the Megalenses!

Vale quam Optime,
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia (Aedilis)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83684 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: Re: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764
Salvete,

I would like to express my sincere thanks to all of the hard working Romans who
have brought us this year's spectacular Ludi Novi Romani! While I wish my gladiators had
faired better the overall games were a joy to behold. We had solemn rituals.
We had contests in Latin and in history. We had play by play reports for the field.
And most important we had fun!

So THANKS to all who helped! Your efforts are most appreciated.

Valete,

Ti. Galerius Paulinus



To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com; Nova_roma_@yahoogroups.com
From: syrenslullaby@...
Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2011 16:27:45 -0700
Subject: [Nova-Roma] LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764: Closing Speech of Curule Aedile Sta. Cornelia Aeternia






*Sta. Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.
*

Today we are marking an end to the celebrations of the Ludi Novi Romani, we
have brought Nova Roma to the big *"XIII"* *(13)* and with a jubilatory
bang. At this stage our Republic still has a way to go, in regards to
growing up, we as citizens must brace ourselves against the rocky paths
ahead, and we as one tribe must ride the upcoming storms that are soon to
follow. Although we may fall, and we may fall hard. We will also rise
stronger and unable to be bent, we remain unbroken, in the end we remain
Roman.

My colleague and I along with the members of the Aedilician Cohors, would
like to thank all the citizens, magistrates, senators, and religious
officials, who joined and helped celebrate bringing in our beloved Republic
to a very special milestone.

Bidding farewell to the Ludi Novi Romani, and urging everyone to Carpe
Noctem.

I hereby declare the Ludi Novi Romani 2764 --*CLOSED*

*Gratias vobis ago,
Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia
Aedilis Curulis Maior Novae Romae*

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83685 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-13
Subject: Re: LUDI NOVI ROMANI 2764
Aeternia Ti. Galerio Paulino sal:


Thank you Tribune, glad you enjoyed them!

Vale Optime,
Aeternia

On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 5:29 PM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <
spqr753@...> wrote:

>
> Salvete,
>
> I would like to express my sincere thanks to all of the hard working Romans
> who
> have brought us this year's spectacular Ludi Novi Romani! While I wish my
> gladiators had
> faired better the overall games were a joy to behold. We had solemn
> rituals.
> We had contests in Latin and in history. We had play by play reports for
> the field.
> And most important we had fun!
>
> So THANKS to all who helped! Your efforts are most appreciated.
>
> Valete,
>
> Ti. Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83686 From: Nyk Cowham Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Hail the Aediles and the Happy Bees!
Valerius Volusus Cornelia Aeternia et omnibus in foro S.P.D.

I would like to express my sincere thanks to the Aediles, Aediliean Cohors,
Volunteers, artists and contributors who have worked so hard to present 13
fun-filled days of games and entertainments.

As a new citizen I was fortunate to arrive in Nova Roma at the time of these
games and to be able to participate in some contests and enter my gladiators
into the Ludi. Suffocatorix and Timomachus Panthera were uninjured and able
to join the final parade. I have forgiven them their defeats and they are
training hard.

Again, thank you for your efforts, they are greatly appreciated!

Optime Vale.

Volusus.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83687 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: Hail the Aediles and the Happy Bees!
Cornelia Aeternia Valerio Volusuo et omnibus in foro S.P.D.



Thank you very much! Glad you enjoyed the games!

Vale Optime,
Aeternia

On Sun, Mar 13, 2011 at 9:17 PM, Nyk Cowham <nyk@...> wrote:

>
>
> Valerius Volusus Cornelia Aeternia et omnibus in foro S.P.D.
>
> I would like to express my sincere thanks to the Aediles, Aediliean Cohors,
> Volunteers, artists and contributors who have worked so hard to present 13
> fun-filled days of games and entertainments.
>
> As a new citizen I was fortunate to arrive in Nova Roma at the time of
> these
> games and to be able to participate in some contests and enter my
> gladiators
> into the Ludi. Suffocatorix and Timomachus Panthera were uninjured and able
> to join the final parade. I have forgiven them their defeats and they are
> training hard.
>
> Again, thank you for your efforts, they are greatly appreciated!
>
> Optime Vale.
>
> Volusus.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83688 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: Nundinal Calendar II: pr. Id. Mar. to a.d. XI Kal. Apr.
Q Caecilius Metellus C Petronio Dextro sal.

Certe, de anno calendario non dissentior: annus Romae, post DCI Kalendis
Ianuariis incepit. Sed annum sacrum praedico, qui Kalendis Martiis
incipit (hoc demonstratur feriarum ambitum uidente, in quo annus a
Terminalibus et aliis finit).

Cur hunc annum sacrum praedico? Quod annus sacer modus operandi meus
est. Imprimere annum sacrum esse rei publicae nolo; si imprimo, est
culpa mea.

Sed status, annum ex Kalendis Martiis nuntiante, dies non muto, ut scis;
plane, mihi annus Kal Mar incipit magis quam Kal Ian.

[Surely I do not disagree about the calendar year: the year at Rome,
after AUC 601, began on the Kalends of January. I am publishing,
however, the sacred year, which begins on the Kalends of March (this is
demonstrated in considering the cycle of festivals, in which the year
ends with the Terminalia, among others).

[Why do I publish the sacred year? This is because it is my way of
operating. I do not intend to give the impression that the sacred year
is the year of the state; if I have done so, that is my own fault.

[But it is the case, while I am proclaiming the year from the Kalends of
March, I do not change the days, as you know. Simply, the year for me
begins by the Kalends of March more so than by the Kalends of January.]

Di nobis Romanis faueant, et tibi, Portunus faueat.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83689 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Thank you for the Ludi Novae Romae
Salvete,



I would like to add my congratulations to the Aediles Curulis and their
cohorts for the marvelous Ludi Novae Romae they have organized this year.



Thank you very much.



Valete,

Crassus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83690 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
C. Petronius C. Catoni consuli salutem,

> A. This consular edictum is issued under the authority of:
> 1. The Senatus Consultum Ultimum concerning the matter of dual
> memberships, passed by the Senate of Nova Roma Inc. as recorded so
> passed on 28th of February 2764.
> 2. Section I.B The Constitution of Nova Roma Inc.
> 3. Section V.E The Constitution of Nova Roma Inc.

In fact, my fellow consul, this edictum is not under those authorities, it sounds rather like a damnatio memoriae.

But a damnatio memoriae exceeds the frame of our dual membership SCU and exceeds too the Constitution and of course, over all, the imperium of a consul.

The damnatio memoriae was mostly used at the imperial period by the Senate against the tyranic emperors never by a consul even if the consul has the plenipotentia given by a SCU, because the SCU never statued about a damnatio memoriae, it only put rules about the dual memberships.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Martias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83691 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: prid. Id. Mar.
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est pridie Idus Martias; hic dies nefastus publicus est.

"When he who, with his swift chariot, brings bright day
Has raised his disc six times, and immersed it again,
You will see horse races again on the Campus,
That grassy plain that Tiber's winding waters wash.
But if by chance it's flooded by overflowing waves,
The dusty Caelian Hill will accept the horses." - Ovid, Fasti III

"Mars Pater, te precor uti fortitudine et peritia horum equitum
Equirriae Senatus Populusque Novorum Romanorum Quiritum iniciantur et
sies volens propitius mihi et Senatui Populoque Novorum Romanorum
Quiritum. Mars Pater, qui currui temporis equos citos suos iungit ut
mensem Martii adduucat, tibi fieri oportet culignam vini dapi, eius
rei ergo hac illace dape pullucenda esto."

(Father Mars, I pray you that the Senate and People of the Nova
Romans, the Quirites, may be inspired by the courage and skill of
these horsemen of the Equirria and that you may be propitious to the
Senate and People of the Nova Romans, the Quirites. Father Mars, who
hitches his swift horses to the chariot of time to bring on the month
of March, to you it is proper for a cup of wine to be given, for the
sake of this thing therefore may you be honoured by this feast
offering)" - Lucius Equitius Cincinnatus Augur (NR), Precatio on the
Equirria of Mars

"A solemn custom was observ'd of old,
Which Latium held, and now the Romans hold,
Their standard when in fighting fields they rear
Against the fierce Hyrcanians, or declare
The Scythian, Indian, or Arabian war;
Or from the boasting Parthians would regain
Their eagles, lost in Carrhae's bloody plain.
Two gates of steel (the name of Mars they bear,
And still are worship'd with religious fear)
Before his temple stand: the dire abode,
And the fear'd issues of the furious god,
Are fenc'd with brazen bolts; without the gates,
The wary guardian Janus doubly waits.
Then, when the sacred senate votes the wars,
The Roman consul their decree declares,
And in his robes the sounding gates unbars.
The youth in military shouts arise,
And the loud trumpets break the yielding skies.
These rites, of old by sov'reign princes us'd,
Were the king's office; but the king refus'd,
Deaf to their cries, nor would the gates unbar
Of sacred peace, or loose th' imprison'd war;
But hid his head, and, safe from loud alarms,
Abhorr'd the wicked ministry of arms.
Then heav'n's imperious queen shot down from high:
At her approach the brazen hinges fly;
The gates are forc'd, and ev'ry falling bar;
And, like a tempest, issues out the war." - Vergil, The Aeneiad Bk.
VII


Today is a celebration of the Equirria; these were holy days with
religious and military significance at either end of the new year
celebrations for Mars. The Roman state placed great emphasis on
celebrating the god of war - to support the army, and to boost public
morale. Priests performed rites purifying of the army. Celebrants
held horse races on the Campius Martius (field of Mars), and drove a
scapegoat out of the city of Rome, expelling the old and bringing in
the new.

Mars was unquestionably the most Roman of the gods, for unlike the
other major deities of Rome, the worship of Mars was never much
affected by foreign influences as the Empire expanded and the city
became more cosmopolitan. Partially this was no doubt due to the fact
that the Greeks reviled their own war god and thus he was not an
important part of the Greek religion that otherwise so heavily
influenced Roman worship. On the other hand, because of Mars'
original character and duties in Roman tradition, they saw him as
their protector rather than as the malefactor of all mankind. Also,
since Mars was the father of Romulus, the first Roman, the people of
Rome considered themselves to be the children of Mars - Martians in
the sense of being connected in lineage to the god. Finally, as the
Roman state became more militarized, the cult of Mars assumed greater
importance, surpassing even that of Iuppiter. It may be said that,
although Iuppiter was the king of the Roman gods, Mars ascended to
the prime ministry of the Roman Pantheon, thus assuming the more
active role with regard to the affairs of men.

The origin of the god's name is uncertain. Possibly, along with Ares,
it is connected with the Sanskrit mar and the Vedic maruts, meaning
"storm divinities", or the Greek root meaning "to carry away".
According to other speculation it comes from the root mar or mas,
meaning the generative force, for Mars was the god of springtime and
fertility before he was the god of war. Still another possible
meaning of mar was "to shine". The most ancient forms of the name
were "Maurs", "Mavors", and "Marmar", which were later contracted to
"Mars". The god was called "Mamers" in the Oscan language, from which
the Mamertine tribe derived its name. Another nominally Martian tribe
were the Marsi. The name had still other forms -- "Marspiter" and
"Maspiter" -- which were created by adding the word pater, meaning
"father", to the name of the god, for legend had it that Mars was the
father of Romulus, the first Roman. During this early period of the
Roman culture, Mars was also known by the surname "Silvanus", meaning
"belonging to a wood or forest". Later, Mars was surnamed "Gradivus",
which has been translated as "he who precedes the army in battle". In
the late 1st century B.C., the emperor Augustus erected the Temple of
Mars Ultor ("Mars the Avenger") in Rome, to give thanks to the god
for his victory over the assassins of his adoptive father, Gaius
Julius Caesar.

Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83692 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

This cannot be a "damnatio memoriae" since no such thing exists in our law. The consuls were given full authority to take whatever measures they felt necessary by the senatus consultum ultimum. We have done so. A slight amendment will be issued later today, but in its practical application, the edict stands.

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius C. Catoni consuli salutem,
>
> > A. This consular edictum is issued under the authority of:
> > 1. The Senatus Consultum Ultimum concerning the matter of dual
> > memberships, passed by the Senate of Nova Roma Inc. as recorded so
> > passed on 28th of February 2764.
> > 2. Section I.B The Constitution of Nova Roma Inc.
> > 3. Section V.E The Constitution of Nova Roma Inc.
>
> In fact, my fellow consul, this edictum is not under those authorities, it sounds rather like a damnatio memoriae.
>
> But a damnatio memoriae exceeds the frame of our dual membership SCU and exceeds too the Constitution and of course, over all, the imperium of a consul.
>
> The damnatio memoriae was mostly used at the imperial period by the Senate against the tyranic emperors never by a consul even if the consul has the plenipotentia given by a SCU, because the SCU never statued about a damnatio memoriae, it only put rules about the dual memberships.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> pridie Idus Martias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83693 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: LUDI NOVI ROMANI: Certamen Latinum # 10
SALVETE, QUIRITES!

Apologies for the inconvenience caused by the delay of this last question!

ATTENTION: YESTERDAY'S QUESTION (# 9) IS STILL FREE TO ANSWER AND SEND UNTIL TOMORROW NIGHT.
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXIV/Certamen_Latinum#March_11th_-_Day_11_of_the_Ludi_Novi_Romani_.E2.80.93_Question_9_of_the_Certamen_Latinum

We
have arrived to the last question today, Question # 10, but it's still
worth joining the competition. I encourage absolutely everyone, try with
these questions, and you'll taste some delicious Roman Mother Tongue.

Participate in our Certamen Latinum!


ANSWERS TO QUESTION 8

See all answers to Question # 8 on our website:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXIV/Certamen_Latinum#Answers_8


RANKINGS - PART TIME RESULTS - BEFORE LAST QUESTION

1st - P. Annaeus Constantinus Placidus - 341 pts
2nd - M. Martianius Lupus - 339 pts
3rd - M. Pompeius Caninus - 270 pts
4th - L. Lucretius Caupo - 192 pts
5th - V. Valerius Volusus - 85 pts
6th - T.
Octavius Silvanus - 76 pts
7th - Demetria of Chicago - 60 pts
8th - T. Popillia Laenas - 47 pts

We are in the last moment, but there are still changes: seeing the high quality of our races, I predict there will be big surprises even after evaluating Question # 10! And what a courageous woman: in the person of Popillia Laenas we can welcome a contestant who entered the race at Question # 9. Brava, errrrr... optima! Well done. Only if others followed the examples of the best ones of Nova Roma, who work hard on their Roman mind and character, by learning our language. And Volusus! Hurray to Volusus: after being absent for rounds, now returned AND left behind the excellent Silvanus! Nice accomplishment!
But who will win, Quirites!? Placidus and Lupus are since the beginning neck and neck, and cheek by jowl. All depends on Question # 10. No one can predict... Placidus or Lupus? Lupus or Placidus? Hold your breath... And Question # 10 is worth
about 150 pts! And there are some contestants who did not yet answer Question # 9 which is still open. Big changes can happen for the next time! There is a great chance that Caninus or Caupo leave Placidus and Lupus behind! Caupo or Caninus, Lupus or Placidus: all can win the 13th Nova Roman Anniversary Latin Games. Let's see what happens now.

Encourage our Latin competitors, Quirites!



TODAY'S QUESTION - LAST QUESTION OF THE CERTAMEN LATINUM:
       
Available in a nice, more perspicuous online format here:



http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXIV/Certamen_Latinum#March_12th_-_Day_12_of_the_Ludi_Novi_Romani_.E2.80.93_Question_10_of_the_Certamen_Latinum



March 12th - Day 12 of the Ludi Novi Romani – Question 10 of the Certamen Latinum


I. INTRODUCTION 10 - Indirect Speech

We
have walked through a long path, but made huge steps, and within just
10 days we are arriving to the hardest height of Latin grammar, to the
Indirect Discourse (or Indirect Speech) which includes the Sequence of
Tenses rules and the Accusative with Infinitive, two things which made
students of Latin cry since the Middle Age.

From the dictionary
forms, where we had started, we went through all declensions of nouns
and adjectives, we learned the formation of adverbs and the conjugations
of Present and Past Tenses, and yesterday we met all tenses of the
Subjunctive.

Today,
on our last day, we will win and conquer the Indirect Speech, the jewel in our crown.

Now
I confess I deceived you when I said we would only "try out" some minor
things in the Latin, or when I said we would take a look at some little
bits of Latin with these Quizzes. The truth is, that with these lessons
we have learned almost all grammar of the Latin language, and almost
every difficult feature in Latin. And now we are on the top, learning
about the hardest grammar in Latin, which if you will be able to
conquer, you will have conquered Goddess Latinitas Herself, and the
doors of the "Roman Mind", and all Classical and Medieval Literature
will re-open for you, forever.

I'm not joking when I say the
Indirect Speech poisoned the lives of many schoolboys and girls since
the Fall of the Roman Empire, especially with the terrible Accusative
with Infinitive and the Sequence of Tenses - but I assure you by the end
of the day you will laugh into
the eyes of
these monsters: they are monsters only to those who are not willing to
domesticate them. 

But first we must define what we are about to domesticate.

Indirect
Speech (Reported Speech, or Indirect Discourse) refers to
a sentence reporting what someone has said, thought, seen, heard or
percieved by any mental activity. It is almost always used in
spoken English.


Direct Speech is:

- Cicero said: "I see Brutus in the garden."

Indirect Speech is:

- Cicero said (that) he saw Brutus in the garden.

From
this example we can see that there must be some rules about the
Sequence of Tenses, because in English Indirect Speech "see" became
"saw". And yes, there is a Sequence of Tenses rule in English, too, and
we will see that the Latin rules are similar, but Latin uses them only
in Indirect Questions, because in Indirect Statements Latin has chosen
an entirely different solution: the Accusative with Infinitive.

There
are three types of Indirect Speech, depending on the reported sentence
if it is a statement, order or question, an Indirect Speech can be
Indirect Statement, Indirect Command, or Indirect Question. Let's start
with the Indirect Statements.

1. Indirect Statements

In
English, the verb
tense of the reported, indirect sentence follows a simple logical
Sequence of Tense rule: if the
reporting verb ("said") is in the past, the reported clause will be in a
Past Tense. If the reporting verb is present ("say"), the reported
clause will be in a Present Tense:

With the reporting verb in Present:


- Cicero says: "I see Brutus in the garden." (Direct Statement)

- Cicero says (that) he sees Brutus in the garden. (Indirect Statement)

With the reporting verb in Past:



- Cicero said: "I see Brutus in the garden." (Direct Statement)

- Cicero said (that) he saw Brutus in the garden. (Indirect Statement)

Instead
of this rule, in Latin we find that there is an entirely different
construction, the Accusative with Infinitive to be used for reporting
statements.

1.1. Accusative with Infinitive

There
is a similar construction in English, when you say "I see Brutus come,"
and "I see him go," where "come" is an infinitive without the usual
"to" (otherwise it would have been "comes"), and "Brutus" is an
accusative. English uses the Accusative plus Infinitive with verbs of
wishing, believing and perception ("I believe Brutus to come"). The
infinitive is usually introduced by "to", but in some cases (e.g. with
"see") it's without "to".

- I see Brutus come.
  Video Brutum venire.

- I believe Brutus to come.
  Credo Brutum
venire.

However, English does
not use this construction with verbs of saying. There is no "I say
Brutus to come". English puts it as
"I say (that) Brutus comes". In Latin, however, we must always use the
Accusative with Infinitive construction with all verbs of saying,
thinking, perceiving or communicating.

- I say (that) Brutus comes.
  Dico Brutum venire. (Literally: I say Brutus 'to come')

1.2. Reported Statments' Timing in the Accusative with Infinitive Construction

1.2.1.
If the Reported Statement is about an event which is contemporaneous,
simultaneous with the time of the reporting verb, like "I say (that)
Brutus comes (is coming)", or "I said (that) Brutus came (was coming),
we use the Present Infinitive, i.e. the 2nd dictionary form:

amo, -are, -avi, -atum --> amare (to love)
facio, -ere, feci, factum --> facere (to make)

venio, -ire, veni, ventum --> venire (to come)

It does not matter of what tense the reporting verb is:

- I say (that) Brutus comes / is coming.
  Dico Brutum venire. (Literally: I say Brutus 'to come')

- I said (that) Brutus came / was coming.
  Dixi Brutum venire. (Literally: I said Brutus 'to come')

1.2.2.
If the action of the reported sentence is prior to the time of the
reporting verb, like "I say (that) Brutus came (has come)", or "I said
(that) Brutus had come", you must use the Perfect Infinitive. To form a
Perfect Infinitive, you simply cut off the Perfect Tense "-i" ending of
the 3rd dictionary form, and add ending "-isse" to the Perfect Stem:

amo, -are, -av|i, -atum --> amavisse (to have loved)
facio, -ere, fec|i, factum --> fecisse (to have
made)
venio, -ire, ven|i, ventum --> venisse (to have
come)

It does not matter of what tense the reporting verb is:

- I say (that) Brutus has come / came / was coming.

  Dico Brutum venisse. (Literally: I say Brutus 'to have come')



- I said (that) Brutus had come.

  Dixi Brutum venisse. (Literally: I said Brutus 'to have come')

All
Latin Indirect Statements have to follow these rules, and all Latin
Indirect Statements are to be transformed into such Accusative
with Infinitive contructions.

2. Indirect Commands
 
An
Indirect Command is a reported command. Indirect Commands express what
someone begs, asks, urges or orders. Let's see an English example:

I begged that Brutus come.

"Come"
is an English Subjunctive here. Latin uses Subjunctive as well. If the
verb introducing the Indirect Command is Present, Latin uses Present
Subjunctive in the subordinate clause; if the main verb is Past, Latin
uses Imperfect Subjunctive in the subordinate clause. English never
varies, it uses always the Present Subjunctive. Let' see on examples:

With the reporting verb in Present:

- I beg that Brutus come.
  Oro ut Brutus veniat.

With the reporting verb in Past:

- I begged that Brutus
come.
  Oravi ut Brutus veniret. (Literally: I begged that Brutus 'came'/'would come')

All Latin Indirect Commands have to be in Present or Imperfect Subjunctive follow the rules above.

3. Indirect Questions

An
Indirect Question is a reported question, it reports what someone asks,
or could have asked. English Indirect Questions follow the same
Sequence of Tenses rules as in the case of
Indirect Statements, but there's an additional change in the structure
of the sentence:

- From where does Brutus come?
- Cicero asks from where Brutus comes.

We can see that English changes word order and does not use the auxiliary verb "do/does" for
Indirect Questions. In Latin you must use the Subjunctive to indicate
Indirect Question. The Latin Sequence of Tenses for Indirect Questions
is the following:

3.1. Sequence of Tenses

3.1.1. If the time of the verb in the reported question is contemporaneous, simultaneous to the verb of asking that introduces the Indirect Question, you will use
a) Present Subjunctive: if the reporting verb is Present;
b) Imperfect Subjunctive: if the reporting verb is Past.

With the reporting verb in Present:


- I ask from where Brutus comes / is coming.
  Quaero unde Brutus veniat.

With the reporting verb in Past:


- I asked from where Brutus came / was coming.
  Quaesivi unde Brutus veniret.

3.1.1. If the time
of the verb in the reported question is prior to the reporting verb of asking that introduces the Indirect Question, you will use

a) Perfect Subjunctive: if the reporting verb is Present;

b) Pluperfect Subjunctive: if the reporting verb is Past.


With the reporting verb in Present:

- I ask from where Brutus came / has come / was coming.
  Quaero unde Brutus venerit.



With the reporting verb in Past:


- I asked from where Brutus had come.
  Quaesivi unde Brutus venisset.

You must use the Subjunctive always, in this Sequence of Tenses, whenever you translate an Indirect Question to Latin.


II. QUESTION 10

Translate

the following complex sentences which contain Indirect Statements,
Indirect Commands and Indirect Questions to Latin, using the Accusative
with Infinitive construction where needed, and the Subjunctive Tenses
according to the Sequence of Tenses, where they are needed. The
sentences below are mostly sligt alterations of all sentences we have
translated so far, so although it's 18 sentences, all of them were translated by you on the previous days. So don't be afraid, it's not as much as it seems. Your work will mostly consist of transforming the sentences we had translated so far into Indirect Speech.
The Latin
words needed to these translations are given below in their dictionary
form. Use them.


Follow the guidelines here:


http://novaroma.org/nr/Declension
http://novaroma.org/nr/Conjugation
http://novaroma.org/nr/Latin_sentence



Be careful, and read ALL information on the pages!

"We have read that Cicero wrote a letter to Brutus on loyalty and duty." (7 pts)

lego, -ere, legi, lectum (read)
Cicero, -onis, m (Cicero)
scribo, -ere, scripsi, scriptum (write)
epistula, -ae, f (letter, mail)
Brutus, -i, m (Brutus)
de + ablative (on; about)
pietas, -atis, f (loyalty)
et (and)
officium, -i, n (duty)

"I think that Brutus sees Cicero, but Cicero does not see Brutus in the gardens of Pompey." (9 pts)

puto, -are, -avi, -atum (think)
video, -ére, vidi, visum (see)
sed (but)
non (not; no)
in + ablative (in)
hortus, -i, m (garden)
Pompeius, -i, m (Pompey)
- Comment: "does/do not see" in Latin is expressed by "non + verb (see)"

"Brutus says that Cicero writes letters by hand and that he
always loved to write so." (8 pts)

dico, -ere,
dixi, dictum (say)
manus, -ús, f
(hand)
amo, -are, -avi, -atum (love)
ita (so)
- Comment: "by" is expressed here by using the ablative without preposition.

"I would have asked what the wise ones were writing about the laws of Rome and about the duties of men." (7 pts)

quaero, -ere, quaesivi, -itum (ask)
quid (what)
sapiens, -entis m/f (the wise one)
lex, legis, f (law)
de + ablative (about; on)
Roma, -ae, f (Rome)
homo, -inis m (man)

"Lentulus said that the citizens had celebrated the women of the world everywhere." (5 pts)

Lentulus, -i, m (Lentulus)
dico, -ere, dixi, dictum (say)
civis, -is m/f (citizen)
celebro, -are, -avi, -atum (celebrate)
femina, -ae, f (woman)
mundus, -i, m (world)
everywhere (ubique)

"I would ask whether Caesar was defending Rome from the Gauls." (5 pts)

Caesar, -aris, m (Caesar)
defendo, -ere, -endi, -ensum (defend)
Roma, -ae, f (Rome)
a + ablative (from)

Gallus, -i, m (Gaul person, Gaulish)

"He asked Servilia that she write nicely to the noble Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus." (7 pts)

rogo, -are, -avi, -atum (ask, request)
Servilia, -ae, f (Servilia)
scribo, -ere, scripsi, scriptum (write)
pulcher, -chra, -chrum (nice)
familia, -ae, f (family)
nobilis, -e (noble)
Lucius, -i, m; Domitius, -i, m; Ahenobarbus, -i, m (Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus)

"They believed that the young Brutus had seen old Cicero in the gardens of Pompey the Great." (9 pts)

iuvenis, -e (young)
video, -ére, vidi, visum (see)
vetus, -eris (old)
in + ablative (in)
hortus, -i, m (garden)
Pompeius, -i, m
(Pompey)
magnus, -a, -um (great)

"Iulia

said quickly to a patriotic man that the Roman people always praised
the virtues of loyalty, then she gently asked if he had defended the
fatherland faithully." (14 pts)

Iulia, -ae, f (Iulia)
dico, -ere,
dixi, dictum (say)
velox, -ocis (quick)
pius, -a, -um (patriotic)
homo, -inis, m (man)
Romanus, -a, um (Roman)
populus, -i, m (people)
semper (always)
laudo, -are, -avi, -atum (praise)
virtus, -utis f (virtue)
pietas, -atis f (loyalty)
tum (then)
urbanus, -a, -um (gentle)
num (if, whether)
fidelis, -e (faithful)
defendo, -ere, -endi, -ensum (defend)
patria, -ae, f (fatherland)

"We are funnily telling that the great events of the fourth Nova Roman Games have finished today." (8 pts)

iocosus, -a, -um (funny)
narro, -are, -avi, -atum (tell)
de + ablative (about; on)
eventus, -ús, m (event)
quartus, -a, -um (fourth)
Novus, -a, -um, Romanus, -a, um (Nova Roman)
ludus, -i, m (game)
finio, -ire, -ivi, -itum (finish)
hodie (today)

"The senate
ordered that the Nova
Roman citizens celebrate the admired and invincible Nova Roma
with Latin competition and various other games." (12 pts)

senatus, -ús, m (senate)
iubeo, -ere, iussi, iussum (order)
civis, -is mf (citizen)
beatus, -a, -um (happy)
celebro, -are, -avi, -atum (celebrate)
mirabilis, -e (admired)
invictus, -a, -um (invincible)
cum + ablative (with)
Latinus, -a, -um (Latin)
certamen, -inis, n (competition)
et (and)
varius, -a, -um
(various)
alius, -a, -ud (other)

"I saw that Cicero was calmly reading a book, but then Brutus shouted that his brother had fallen off the tree." (12 pts)

tranquillus, -a, um (calm)
lego, -ere, legi, lectum (read)
liber, libri, m (book)
sed (but)
clamo, -are, -avi, -atum (shout)
suus, -a, -um (his)
frater, fratris f (brother)
cado, -ere, cecidi, casurus (fall)
de + ablative (off)
arbor, -oris, f (tree)

"He said that the Greek sailor roamed through many wonderful countries, but he had never seen kings or queens." (9 pts)


Graecus, -a, -um (Greek)
nauta, -ae, m (sailor)
erro, -are, -avi, -atum (roam)
per + accusative (through)
multus, -a, -um (much, many)
mirabilis, -e (wonderful)
terra, -ae, f (land, country)
sed (but)
numquam (never)
video, -ere, vidi, visum (see)
rex, regis, m (king)
regina, -ae, f
(queen)


"When the censors arrived to the curia, they asked if the good senators had already decided
about all things, and why they were leaving the building of the Roman senate. (13 pts)"

censor, -oris, m (censor)
advenio, -ire, -veni, -ventum (arrive)
in + accusative (into, to)
curia, -ae, f (curia)
num (if, whether)
bonus, -a, -um (good)
senator, -oris, m (senator)
decerno, -ere, decrevi, -cretum (decide)
iam (already)
de + ablative (about)
omnis, -e (all)
res, rei, f (thing)
et (and)
cur (why)
relinquo, -ere, -liqui, -lictum (leave)
aedificium, -i, n (building)
Romanus, -a, -um (Roman)
senatus, -ús, m (senate)

"He
writes that yesterday Caesar attacked the first cohort of Pompey and
won, and he asks if the soldiers of Pompey were fighting vehemently." (11 pts)


heri (yesterday)
Caesar, -aris, m (Caesar)
oppugno, -are, -avi, -atum (attack)
primus, -a, -um (first)
cohors, -ortis f (cohort)
Pompeius, -i, m (Pompey)
vinco, -ere, vici, victum (win)
quamquam (although)
miles,
-itis, m (soldier)
bello, -are, -avi, -atum
(fight)
vehemens, -entis (vehement)

"He writes in the letter
to the commander Lucius Lucullus that Caesar has never loved to write long letters but he nevertheless answers all questions now." (12 pts)


finio, -ire, -ivi, -itum (finish)
epistula, -ae, f (letter)
imperator, -oris, m (commander)
Lucius, -i, m; Lucullus -i, m (Lucius Lucullus)
respondeo, -ere, -ndi, -nsum (answer)
quaestio, -onis, f (question)
amo, -are, -avi, -atum (love)

tamen (but... nevertheless)
nunc (now)

"Brutus saw that Cicero entered the room and asked what Pompey was writing." (7 pts)


Cicero, -onis, m (Cicero)        
intro, -are, -avi, -atum (enter)
cella, -ae, f (room)
quid (what)
Pompeius, -i, m (Pompey)
scribo, -ere, scripsi, scriptum (write)   



"I think Caninus, Caupo, Demetria, Lupus, Placidus, Popillia, Silvanus, Volusus all did wonderfully in our Latin competition." (12 pts)



Caninus, -i, m (Caninus)

Caupo, -onis, m (Caupo)

Demetria, -ae, f (Demetria)

Lupus, -i, m (Lupus)

Pacidus, -i, m (Placidus)

Popillia, -ae, f (Popillia)

Silvanus, -i, m (Silvanus)

Volusus, -i, m (Volusus)

facio, -ere, feci, factum (do)

noster, -tra, -trum (our)



III. AN EXAMPLE HOW TO
DO IT:

"We heard that the soldiers of Pompey had fought vehemently, but we don't know why Caesar won." (7 pts)

audio, -ire, -ivi, -itum (hear)

miles, -itis, m (soldier)         
Pompeius, -i, m (Pompey)      

bello, -are, -avi, -atum (fight)        

vehemens, -entis (vehement)
nescio, -ire, -ivi, -itum (do/does not know)
cur (why)
Caesar, -aris, m (Caesar)            
vinco, -ere, vici, victum (win)         

-
in the first part is an Indirect Statement, which means that we have to
use the Accusative with Infinitive construction here. We see that the
time of the reported statement's verb "had fought"
is prior to the time of the reporting verb "heard", so "had fought"
will be translated with a Perfect Infinitive: "bellavisse". (1 pt)
-
We put "the soldiers" in accusative ("milites"), because that's the
object of the construction "we heard the soldiers to have fought". (1pt)
-
The second part is an Indirect Question (why Caesar won), thus we will
use the Subjunctive. The time of the reported question's verb, "won" is
prior to the time of the reporting verb "I don't know", which is a
Present Tense. So, according to the rules of the Sequence of Tenses,
after Present reporting verb if a verb of prior time follows, the
repored verb shall be in Perfect Subjunctive. In this case it's
"vicerit". (1 pt)
- After
translating everything else (5 pts), which is not new grammar, we get the following result:

"Audivimus milites Pompei vehementer bellavisse, sed nescimus cur Caesar vicerit."


IV. RULES OF THE CERTAMEN LATINUM

One
question a day will be posted, participants must send their answers not
to this e-mail address but to  <cnaeus_cornelius@...>
within 48 hours of posting. Please do *not* post answers to the list!
Answers posted publicly or posted to the wrong address will not be
awarded with points.

The correct answers of the previous day and interim results will be announced together with the posting of the next questions.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83694 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Lentulus senatori Petronio sal.


The idea in this consular edict is barbarious, but at best highly imperial and not republican at all. It makes us look vengeful, while Piscinus could not even achieve what he wanted, the government punishes him as if he killed dozens of Nova Roma members. With what we could punish a REAL murderer in NR? By deleting even our biological memory in our heads?

We will look utterly ridiculous and pretentious if this edict is executed, and it would cause more harm than Piscinus could have ever.

We will not be closer to a peaceful and community oriented NR with this edict, but further from it. I could name at least ten good and active citizens who certanly will certainly feel disgusted and more alienated from NR, and no, I'm not talking about Piscinus' friends or former friends.

Let's do something productive, and the success of our work will be million times stronger medicine against any bad the split and infighting between Cato, Sulla, Quintilianus and Piscinus might have caused. Productive, good work makes NR healthy and big. This edict idea won't.


--- Lun 14/3/11, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> ha scritto:

Da: petronius_dexter
<jfarnoud94@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Lunedì 14 marzo 2011, 12:58







 









C. Petronius C. Catoni consuli salutem,



> A. This consular edictum is issued under the authority of:

> 1. The Senatus Consultum Ultimum concerning the matter of dual

> memberships, passed by the Senate of Nova Roma Inc. as recorded so

> passed on 28th of February 2764.

> 2. Section I.B The Constitution of Nova Roma Inc.

> 3. Section V.E The Constitution of Nova Roma Inc.



In fact, my fellow consul, this edictum is not under those authorities, it sounds rather like a damnatio memoriae.



But a damnatio memoriae exceeds the frame of our dual membership SCU and exceeds too the Constitution and of course, over all, the imperium of a consul.



The damnatio memoriae was mostly used at the imperial period by the Senate against the tyranic emperors never by a consul even if the consul has the plenipotentia given by a SCU, because the SCU never statued about a damnatio memoriae, it only put rules about the dual memberships.



Optime vale.



C. Petronius Dexter

Arcoiali scribebat

pridie Idus Martias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83695 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Ave,

So it is both barbarious and Roman? LOL

Lentulus please stop the melodramma you sound like Sarah Burnhardt!
SHEESH...

And, in case it has escaped anyone our timeframe goes to the Imperial
times..(despite my desire for the contrary).

Vale,

Sulla

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Lentulus senatori Petronio sal.
>
> The idea in this consular edict is barbarious, but at best highly imperial
> and not republican at all. It makes us look vengeful, while Piscinus could
> not even achieve what he wanted, the government punishes him as if he killed
> dozens of Nova Roma members. With what we could punish a REAL murderer in
> NR? By deleting even our biological memory in our heads?
>
> We will look utterly ridiculous and pretentious if this edict is executed,
> and it would cause more harm than Piscinus could have ever.
>
> We will not be closer to a peaceful and community oriented NR with this
> edict, but further from it. I could name at least ten good and active
> citizens who certanly will certainly feel disgusted and more alienated from
> NR, and no, I'm not talking about Piscinus' friends or former friends.
>
> Let's do something productive, and the success of our work will be million
> times stronger medicine against any bad the split and infighting between
> Cato, Sulla, Quintilianus and Piscinus might have caused. Productive, good
> work makes NR healthy and big. This edict idea won't.
>
> --- Lun 14/3/11, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> ha scritto:
>
> Da: petronius_dexter
> <jfarnoud94@...>
> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Luned� 14 marzo 2011, 12:58
>
>
>
>
> C. Petronius C. Catoni consuli salutem,
>
> > A. This consular edictum is issued under the authority of:
>
> > 1. The Senatus Consultum Ultimum concerning the matter of dual
>
> > memberships, passed by the Senate of Nova Roma Inc. as recorded so
>
> > passed on 28th of February 2764.
>
> > 2. Section I.B The Constitution of Nova Roma Inc.
>
> > 3. Section V.E The Constitution of Nova Roma Inc.
>
> In fact, my fellow consul, this edictum is not under those authorities, it
> sounds rather like a damnatio memoriae.
>
> But a damnatio memoriae exceeds the frame of our dual membership SCU and
> exceeds too the Constitution and of course, over all, the imperium of a
> consul.
>
> The damnatio memoriae was mostly used at the imperial period by the Senate
> against the tyranic emperors never by a consul even if the consul has the
> plenipotentia given by a SCU, because the SCU never statued about a damnatio
> memoriae, it only put rules about the dual memberships.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
>
> Arcoiali scribebat
>
> pridie Idus Martias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83696 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: Thank you for the Ludi Novae Romae
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia C. Aemilio Crasso sal:


Thank you very much Tribune, I am glad you enjoyed them!


Vale Optime,
Aeternia

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 1:50 AM, C. Aemilius Crassus <
c.aemilius.crassus@...> wrote:

>
>
> Salvete,
>
> I would like to add my congratulations to the Aediles Curulis and their
> cohorts for the marvelous Ludi Novae Romae they have organized this year.
>
> Thank you very much.
>
> Valete,
>
> Crassus
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83697 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Caesar Praetor Lentulo sal.

Actually if this edict is executed properly, we won't look any of those things, because there won't be anything left to look at.

So much drama over what happens in organizations the world over, when someone disgraces themselves in the eyes of the organization, their trophies, photographs, etc are removed from view and they are simply not mentioned again. Honours are removed. Privilges revoked.

Only in Nova Roma would this even be considered by someone an issue. Only in NR would someone advocate for keeping such a person on full public view.

Optime vale.


--- On Mon, 3/14/11, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

> From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...>
> Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 12:44 PM
>
> Lentulus senatori Petronio sal.
>
>
> The idea in this consular edict is barbarious, but at best
> highly imperial and not republican at all. It makes us look
> vengeful, while Piscinus could not even achieve what he
> wanted, the government punishes him as if he killed dozens
> of Nova Roma members. With what we could punish a REAL
> murderer in NR? By deleting even our biological memory in
> our heads?
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83698 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Ave!

I think its time we start getting some perspective about this. Since our
dear Lentulus is essentially screaming the sky is falling..the sky is
falling...when it surely is not. So, lets review some websites to see what
they say about this:

http://www.livius.org/da-dd/damnatio/damnatio_memoriae.html
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/romannames1/a/EmperorsErased.htm
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Damnatio_memoriae

I am sure most of us are familar with this picture.
http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Damnatio_memoriae

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation<http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Damnatio_memoriae#mw-head>,
search <http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Damnatio_memoriae#p-search>
This article's introduction
section<http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_%28lead_section%29>
*may not adequately
summarize<http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Summary_style>its
contents
*. To comply with Wikipedia's lead section
guidelines<http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lead_section#Length>,
please consider expanding the lead to provide an accessible
overview<http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Lead_section#Provide_an_accessible_overview>of
the article's key points.
*(September 2010)*
<http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/File:Severan_dynasty_-_tondo.png>
<http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/File:Severan_dynasty_-_tondo.png>
Tondo <http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Tondo_%28art%29> of the Severan
family<http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Severan_dynasty>,
with portraits of Septimius
Severus<http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Septimius_Severus>,
Julia Domna <http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Julia_Domna>,
Caracalla<http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Caracalla>,
and Geta <http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Publius_Septimius_Geta>. Geta's face
has been erased, because of the *damnatio memoriae* ordered by his brother.
<http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/File:Geta_Glyptothek_Munich_352.jpg>
<http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/File:Geta_Glyptothek_Munich_352.jpg>
Head of young Publius Septimius Geta at
Glyptothek<http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Glyptothek>,
Munich <http://jazz.openfun.org/wiki/Munich>


Condemned and consecrated emperors
Augustus<http://www.livius.org/au-az/augustus/augustus.html> 27
BCE - 14 CE Consecrated
Livia<http://www.livius.org/li-ln/livia/livia.html> wife
of Augustus, died 29 Consecrated 42
Tiberius<http://www.livius.org/ti-tn/tiberius/tiberius.html> 14
- 37 - Caligula <http://www.livius.org/caa-can/caligula/caligula.html> 37 -
41 Damnatio memoriae? Julia Drusilla wife of Caligula Consecrated 38
Claudius <http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/claudius_i/claudius.html> 41 - 54
Consecrated Agrippina
Minor<http://www.livius.org/ag-ai/agrippina/agrippina-minor.html> wife
of Claudius; died 59 Damnatio memoriae
Nero<http://www.livius.org/ne-nn/nero/nero.html> 54
- 68 Damnatio memoriae Poppaea Sabina wife of Nero; died 65 Consecrated
Galba <http://www.livius.org/ga-gh/galba/galba.html> 68 - 69 Damnatio
memoriae Vitellius <http://www.livius.org/vi-vr/vitellius/vitellius.html>
69 Damnatio memoriae Otho
<http://www.livius.org/on-oz/otho/otho.html> 69 Damnatio
memoriae Vespasian <http://www.livius.org/va-vh/vespasian/vespasian.html> 69
- 79 Consecrated Titus <http://www.livius.org/ti-tn/titus/titus.html> 79 -
81 Consecrated Domitian<http://www.livius.org/do-dz/domitian/domitian.html> 81
- 96 Damnatio memoriae Nerva <http://www.livius.org/ne-nn/nerva/nerva.html> 96
- 98 Consecrated Trajan <http://www.livius.org/to-ts/trajan/trajan.html> 98
- 117 Consecrated
Plotina<http://www.livius.org/pi-pm/plotina/plotina.html> wife
of Trajan; died 123 Consecrated
Hadrian<http://www.livius.org/ha-hd/hadrian/hadrian.html> 117
- 138 Consecrated Sabina
<http://www.livius.org/saa-san/sabina/sabina.html> wife
of Hadrian; died 137 Consecrated Antoninus
Pius<http://www.livius.org/am-ao/antoninus/pius.html> 138
- 161 Consecrated Faustina
I<http://www.livius.org/fa-fn/faustina/faustina_i.html> wife
of Pius; died 141 Consecrated Marcus
Aurelius<http://www.livius.org/di-dn/divi_fratres/marcus.html> 161
- 180 Consecrated Faustina
II<http://www.livius.org/fa-fn/faustina/faustina_ii.html> wife
of Marcus; died 176 Consecrated Lucius
Verus<http://www.livius.org/di-dn/divi_fratres/lucius.html> 161
- 169 Consecrated Avidius
Cassius<http://www.livius.org/di-dn/divi_fratres/avidius_cassius.html>
175 Damnatio memoriae
Commodus<http://www.livius.org/cn-cs/commodus/commodus.html> 180
- 192 Damnatio memoriae Bruttia
Crispina<http://www.livius.org/bn-bz/bruttius/crispina.html> wife
of Commodus; died 192 Damnatio memoriae
Pertinax<http://www.livius.org/he-hg/helvius/pertinax1.html>
193 Consecrated Didius
Julianus<http://www.livius.org/di-dn/didius/julianus.html>
193 Damnatio memoriae Pescennius
Niger<http://www.livius.org/pen-pg/pescennius/niger.html> 193
- 194 Damnatio memoriae Clodius
Albinus<http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/clodius/albinus.html> 193
- 197 Damnatio memoriae Septimius
Severus<http://www.livius.org/se-sg/severus/septimius.html> 193
- 211 Consecrated <http://www.livius.org/jo-jz/julia/julia_domna.html>Julia
Domna <http://www.livius.org/jo-jz/julia/julia_domna.html>
wife of Severus; died 217 Consecrated
Caracalla<http://www.livius.org/cao-caz/caracalla/caracalla.html> 211
- 217 - Geta <http://www.livius.org/cao-caz/caracalla/geta.html> 211 Damnatio
memoriae Macrinus <http://www.livius.org/on-oz/opellius/macrinus.html> 217
- 218 Damnatio memoriae
Heliogabalus<http://www.livius.org/he-hg/heliogabalus/heliogabalus.htm>
218
- 222 Damnatio memoriae Julia
Soaemias<http://www.livius.org/jo-jz/julia/julia_soaemias.html> mother
of Heliogabalus; d.222 Damnatio memoriae Julia Aquilia Severa wife of
Heliogabalus; d.222 Damnatio memoriae Severus
Alexander<http://www.livius.org/se-sg/severus_alexander/alexander.html>
222
- 235 Consecrated Julia
Mamaea<http://www.livius.org/jo-jz/julia/julia_mamaea.html> mother
of Alexander; d.235 Damnatio memoriae Julia
Maesa<http://www.livius.org/jo-jz/julia/julia_maesa.html> sister
of Julia Domna; d.224 Consecrated Maximinus
Thrax<http://www.livius.org/man-md/maximinus/thrax.html> 235
- 238 Damnatio memoriae Gordian
I<http://www.livius.org/gi-gr/gordianus/gordiani.html>
238 Consecrated Gordian
II<http://www.livius.org/gi-gr/gordianus/gordiani.html>
238 Consecrated Pupienus<http://www.livius.org/ps-pz/pupienus/pupienus.html>
238 Damnatio memoriae
Balbinus<http://www.livius.org/ba-bd/balbinus/balbinus.html>
238 Damnatio memoriae Gordian
III<http://www.livius.org/gi-gr/gordianus/gordianus.html> 238
- 244 Consecrated Philippus
Arabs<http://www.livius.org/phi-php/philippus_arabs/philip.html> 244
- 249 ? Decius <http://www.livius.org/de-dh/decius/decius.html> 249 - 251
Consecrated Trebonianus
Gallus<http://www.livius.org/to-ts/trebonianus/trebonianus.html> 251
- 253 Damnatio memoriae
Aemilianus<http://www.livius.org/ad-af/aemilianus/aemilianus.html>
253 Damnatio memoriae
Valerian<http://www.livius.org/va-vh/valerian/valerian.html> 253
- 260 Consecrated?
Gallienus<http://www.livius.org/ga-gh/gallienus/gallienus.html> 253
- 268 Consecrated Claudius
II<http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/claudius_ii/claudius_gothicus.html> 268
- 270 Consecrated
Aurelian<http://www.livius.org/au-az/aurelian/aurelian.html> 270
- 275 Consecrated
Tacitus<http://www.livius.org/ta-td/tacitus_emperor/tacitus_emperor.html>
275
- 276 - Florianus<http://www.livius.org/ta-td/tacitus_emperor/florianus.html>
276 - Probus <http://www.livius.org/pp-pr/probus/probus.html> 276 - 282
Consecrated Carus <http://www.livius.org/cao-caz/carus/carus.html> 282 -
283 Damnatio memoriae
Numerianus<http://www.livius.org/cao-caz/carus/numerianus.html> 283
- 284 Damnatio memoriae
Carinus<http://www.livius.org/cao-caz/carus/carinus.html> 283
- 285 Damnatio memoriae
Diocletian<http://www.livius.org/di-dn/diocletian/diocletian.html> 284
- 305 Concecrated 313
Maximianus<http://www.livius.org/man-md/maximianus/maximianus.html>
285
- 310 Damnatio memoriae Constantius I
Chlorus<http://www.livius.org/cn-cs/constantius/constantius_chlorus.html>
305
- 306 Consecrated
Galerius<http://www.livius.org/ga-gh/galerius/galerius.html> 305
- 311 Consecrated Maximinus
Daia<http://www.livius.org/man-md/maximinus/daia.html> 305
- 313 Damnatio memoriae Severus
II<http://www.livius.org/se-sg/severus_ii/severus_ii.html> 305
- 307 - Maxentius <http://www.livius.org/man-md/maxentius/maxentius.html> 306
- 312 Damnatio memoriae
Licinius<http://www.livius.org/li-ln/licinius/licinius.html> 308
- 324 Damnatio memoriae Constantine
I<http://www.livius.org/cn-cs/constantine/constantine.html> 306
- 337 Canonized Fausta <http://www.livius.org/fa-fn/fausta/fausta.html> wife
of Constantine; died 326 Damnatio memoriae
Crispus<http://www.livius.org/cn-cs/constantine/crispus.html> son
of Constantine; died 326 Damnatio memoriae Constantine
II<http://www.livius.org/cn-cs/constantine/constantinus_ii.html> 337
- 340 Damnatio memoriae
Constans<http://www.livius.org/cn-cs/constans/constans.html> 337
- 350 Consecrated Constantius
II<http://www.livius.org/cn-cs/constantius/constantius_ii.html> 337
- 361 Consecrated Julian the
Apostate<http://www.livius.org/jo-jz/julian/julian_apostata.html> 361
- 363 Consecrated Jovian <http://www.livius.org/jo-jz/jovian/jovian.html> 363
- 364 Consecrated Valentinian
I<http://www.livius.org/va-vh/valentinian/valentinian_i.html> 364
- 375 Consecrated
Valens<http://www.livius.org/va-vh/valentinian/valens.html> 364
- 378 Consecrated
Gratian<http://www.livius.org/va-vh/valentinian/gratianus.html> 375
- 383 Consecrated Valentinian
II<http://www.livius.org/va-vh/valentinian/valentinian_ii.html> 375
- 392 Consecrated Theodosius
I<http://www.livius.org/th/theodosius/theodosius.html> 378
- 395 Consecrated

The actions taken are perfectly within the bounds of NR. Lentulus, if you
don't want to do the act as MA, resign from the job and someone else will do
it.

Vale,

Sulla

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
> wrote:

> Ave,
>
> So it is both barbarious and Roman? LOL
>
> Lentulus please stop the melodramma you sound like Sarah Burnhardt!
> SHEESH...
>
> And, in case it has escaped anyone our timeframe goes to the Imperial
> times..(despite my desire for the contrary).
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
> cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>> Lentulus senatori Petronio sal.
>>
>> The idea in this consular edict is barbarious, but at best highly imperial
>> and not republican at all. It makes us look vengeful, while Piscinus could
>> not even achieve what he wanted, the government punishes him as if he killed
>> dozens of Nova Roma members. With what we could punish a REAL murderer in
>> NR? By deleting even our biological memory in our heads?
>>
>> We will look utterly ridiculous and pretentious if this edict is executed,
>> and it would cause more harm than Piscinus could have ever.
>>
>> We will not be closer to a peaceful and community oriented NR with this
>> edict, but further from it. I could name at least ten good and active
>> citizens who certanly will certainly feel disgusted and more alienated from
>> NR, and no, I'm not talking about Piscinus' friends or former friends.
>>
>> Let's do something productive, and the success of our work will be million
>> times stronger medicine against any bad the split and infighting between
>> Cato, Sulla, Quintilianus and Piscinus might have caused. Productive, good
>> work makes NR healthy and big. This edict idea won't.
>>
>> --- Lun 14/3/11, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...> ha scritto:
>>
>> Da: petronius_dexter
>> <jfarnoud94@...>
>> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>> Data: Luned� 14 marzo 2011, 12:58
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> C. Petronius C. Catoni consuli salutem,
>>
>> > A. This consular edictum is issued under the authority of:
>>
>> > 1. The Senatus Consultum Ultimum concerning the matter of dual
>>
>> > memberships, passed by the Senate of Nova Roma Inc. as recorded so
>>
>> > passed on 28th of February 2764.
>>
>> > 2. Section I.B The Constitution of Nova Roma Inc.
>>
>> > 3. Section V.E The Constitution of Nova Roma Inc.
>>
>> In fact, my fellow consul, this edictum is not under those authorities, it
>> sounds rather like a damnatio memoriae.
>>
>> But a damnatio memoriae exceeds the frame of our dual membership SCU and
>> exceeds too the Constitution and of course, over all, the imperium of a
>> consul.
>>
>> The damnatio memoriae was mostly used at the imperial period by the Senate
>> against the tyranic emperors never by a consul even if the consul has the
>> plenipotentia given by a SCU, because the SCU never statued about a damnatio
>> memoriae, it only put rules about the dual memberships.
>>
>> Optime vale.
>>
>> C. Petronius Dexter
>>
>> Arcoiali scribebat
>>
>> pridie Idus Martias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83699 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Last Call for Literary Submissions
Salve et Salvete Omnes:


I know it's like when am I going to stop bringing this up right..


<clicks on megaphone>

This is the final call for submissions for the Literary Contest for the Ludi
Novi Romani 2764 (which ended yesterday) we have only one entry so far and
to level the playing field, it would be nice to have a couple more entries.

Entries will be accepted until tomorrow the Ides of March (ooooo spooky).

Remember the theme is "The Roman Gods" for details please e-mail me at
MusesDream@...

I think Dexter and Venator are holding out on me ;-)...

Thank you for your time and attention in this matter.

<clicks off megaphone>

Vale Optime,
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia (Aedilis and one-fifth of mighty Judging Quintet)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83700 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: EDICTUM CONSULARE - AMENDMENT
C. Equitius Cato consule omnibus in foro SPD

I will have more to say in a little while, but am issuing this AMENDMENT to the consular edict regarding former citizen M. Moravius Piscinus:



EX OFFICIO

SCU on dual memberships - Number I.A

Further to Consular edictum acting under SCU on dual memberships -
Number I, Section 6 of the aforesaid edictum shall be forthwith and
immediately amended to read only as follows:

_________________________________________________________________

6. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above, the
Nova Roman citizenship of #432 is immediately revoked and terminated
and that #432 is perpetually prohibited from holding Nova Roman
citizenship. The Censors of Nova Roma are directed, by the authority
vested in this edictum that in turn is based on the authority of the
SCU DM, to immediately upon publication of this edict communicate to
#432 that his Nova Roman citizenship has been revoked and he is
perpetually prohibited from holding Nova Roman citizenship by emailing
him at his most currently known active email address. At the same time
as the Censors so communicate the details of termination to #432, they
are further directed to remove all personal details, photograph(s) and
data, including his Nova Roman name replacing such with "nemo" in all
name fields, contained in the censorial database in relation to #432
and to endorse in that database as a notation in the record of #432
that the person formerly holding the Nova Roman name associated with
#432 is denied Nova Roman citizenship, under any Nova Roman name
and/or any macronational identity details, in perpetuity under the
authority of Article 2 SCU DM"

For the purpose of the implementation of Section 6 SCU on dual
memberships - Number I, and only Section 6, as amended by this edictum
as above, the definition of immediate shall commence (if the Censors
are not already engaged in the execution of the directives they are
required to perform under this section) upon the publication of this
amendment edict SCU on dual memberships - Number I.A.

Given by our hands this day before the Ides of Martius in the consulships of P. Ullerius Venator and C. Equitius Cato

P. Ullerius Venator
C. Equitius Cato
Consuls

_____________________________________________________________________




Valete bene,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83701 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED
EX OFFICIO P. ULLERI VENATORI GAII EQUITI CATONI CONSULES

Consular edictum acting under SCU on dual memberships - Number I

A. This consular edictum is issued under the authority of:

1. The Senatus Consultum Ultimum concerning the matter of dual
memberships, passed by the Senate of Nova Roma Inc. as recorded so
passed on 28th of February 2764.
2. Section I.B The Constitution of Nova Roma Inc.
3. Section V.E The Constitution of Nova Roma Inc.

B. Purpose: To apply the relevant articles of the Senatus Consultum
Ultimum on dual memberships (hereafter referred to as SCU DM) to the
citizen of Nova Roma Inc. (hereafter referred to as Nova Roma) named
in C.1 of this edictum.

C. Order:

1. This edictum shall apply to citizen Marcus Moravius Piscinus
Horatianus (hereafter referred to as #432).

2. #432 has authored posts, 83334, 83095, 81456 and 81450 on the
official Nova Roma Forum Romanum Yahoo! list (also known as the "Main
List" or "ML").

3. The content of these posts at (2) are deemed to constitute acts
contrary to Article 1 of the SCU DM, namely that #432 used, and
continues to use, his membership of Nova Roma to create, develop or
promote competing organizations and act negatively towards Nova Roma,
its citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization and actions
through the specific content of these posts.

4. It is further deemed that the specific purpose of such posts at
(2), as well as other posts, statements, communications and activities
made or committed by #432, was and is to injure/damage Nova Roma
through inciting citizens, especially those who are officials and/or
followers of the Religio Romana, to leave Nova Roma and/or join
existing or future organizations whose aim is the creation of a Roman
Republican State.

5. It is further deemed that under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM,
namely the empowerment to take every measure to prevent, avoid or
eliminate the situation created as a result of the acts specified in
(3) and (4) above, that the actions committed by #432 also, and in
addition to situations pertaining to Article 1 SCU DM, constitute the
offence of laesa patriae under section 21 of the Lex Salicia poenalis.

6. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above, the
Nova Roman citizenship of #432 is immediately revoked and terminated
and that #432 is perpetually prohibited from holding Nova Roman
citizenship. The Censors of Nova Roma are directed, by the authority
vested in this edictum that in turn is based on the authority of the
SCU DM, to immediately upon publication of this edict communicate to
#432 that his Nova Roman citizenship has been revoked and he is
perpetually prohibited from holding Nova Roman citizenship by emailing
him at his most currently known active email address. At the same time
as the Censors so communicate the details of termination to #432, they
are further directed to remove all personal details, photograph(s) and
data, including his Nova Roman name replacing such with "nemo" in all
name fields, contained in the censorial database in relation to #432
and to endorse in that database as a notation in the record of #432
that the person formerly holding the Nova Roman name associated with
#432 is denied Nova Roman citizenship, under any Nova Roman name
and/or any macronational identity details, in perpetuity under the
authority of Article 2 SCU DM

7. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above,
further and in addition to (6), the Censors of Nova Roma are directed,
by the authority vested in this edictum that in turn is based on the
authority of the SCU DM, to take all steps practicable to prevent the
future issuance of the exact Nova Roman name associated with #432, or
the future issuance of the combination of praenomen, nomen and first
cognomen associated with #432. In the event that the exact name, or
the combination of praenomen, nomen and first cognomen, of #432 are
issued to any person applying for or holding Nova Roman citizenship,
then the Censors of Nova Roma shall immediately upon such detection
and/or notification, remove such a name and replace with another
combination that does not violate this prohibition.

8. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above,
further and in addition to (6) it is deemed that pursuant to (5) that
#432 be subject to the sentence of exactio for life as if he had been
duly and lawfully convicted of the offence of laesa patriae by a Nova
Roman court duly and properly constituted under any and all of the
requirements of the Lex Salicia iudiciaria and/or Lex Salicia
poenalis.

9. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above,
pursuant to (8) it is further deemed that all legal appeals against
such conviction and/or sentence, allowed by virtue of the Constitution
of Nova Roma or any lex, have been held, exhausted, with no appeal
recourse of any sort remaining, and that all such appeals failed and
the conviction and/or sentence were upheld.

10. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above, the
Censors of Nova Roma are directed, by the authority vested in this
edictum that in turn is based on the authority of the SCU DM, to
endorse in the Censorial database as a notation in the record of #432
that the person formerly holding the Nova Roman name associated with
#432 has also been deemed to have been convicted of laesa patriae and
is subject to the sentence of exactio for life. The Censors of Nova
Roma are further directed to communicate in the email to #432 at (6)
that he is additionally subject to this aforesaid conviction and
sentence.

11. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above, all
magistrates, governors, officials or citizens of Nova Roma acting as
owners, moderators, sysops, web masters or similar, to or for any and
all official groups, lists, webpages or other communication mediums,
including those such entities aforesaid representing themselves as, or
having the appearance of, part of the official structure of Nova Roma,
are directed, by the authority vested in this edictum that in turn is
based on the authority of the SCU DM, to immediately terminate all
memberships held, rights, privileges and/or access enjoyed, by #432 to
such communication entities aforesaid under their control, ownership
or moderation.

12. Under the authority of Article 2 SCU DM, namely the empowerment to
take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate the situation
created as a result of the acts specified in (3) and (4) above, the
Magister aranearius shall immediately remove and permanently delete
from the Nova Roman webpage/wiki and/or server, all entries/articles
about the person, career or history of #432, and all photographs of,
or taken/uploaded by, #432, and shall further amend any other entries
or references pertaining to #432 in such a manner that erases such
entries or references to #432 (excluding history logs), or as an
alternative to erasure if required to maintain the linguistic
integrity of the article replacing such incidences of the name of #432
with "nemo". Such proposed replacement, instead of erasure, must be
first reviewed and approved by the Consuls before such an alternative
to erasure is permitted. Under no circumstances shall #432 be used, or
any derivation thereof, as a replacement for the name held by #432.
Any former name(s) held by #432 shall be treated as though it/they
were the name #432 was/were holding at the time this edictum was
published.

13. A failure by any person so directed in this edictum to comply with
such a directive shall be deemed in itself to be an act contrary to
Article 1 of the SCU DM.

14. Under the authority of Section I.B of the Constitution of Nova
Roma, the order of legal precedence of this edictum shall protect it
from the effect of any alteration, revocation, expiration or other
change to any section of the Constitution, or lex, or other legal
authority cited in this edictum. Further, that order of legal
precedence shall protect any act taken by, or in pursuance of, this
edictum from the effects of any such aforesaid changes or other cited
occurrences.

15. Under the authority of Section I.B of the Constitution of Nova
Roma, the order of legal precedence of this edictum shall establish
the only means of alteration, revocation or similar to this edictum
and/or any/all of the directives pursuant to it, which shall be by way
of either dictatorial edict, or by way of consular edictum acting
under the authority of a senatus consultum ultimum.

16. Under the authority of Section V.E of the Constitution of Nova
Roma, and subject only to those provisions of V.E, this edictum, in
whole and/or part, together with any act taken by, or in pursuance of
this edictum, is not subject to any form of intercessio, veto,
interference, obstruction of any sort or authority.

Given under our hands this fourth day before the Ides of March in the
consulships of P. Ullerius Venator and C. Equitius Cato

P. Ullerius Venator
C. Equitius Cato
Consuls
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83702 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: How to send Messages and Get Wells to Caeca:)
Salvete omnes,

Because Caeca will be moving about a bit for the next few weeks we, Maria, Aeternia and I, decided that all cards and notes for Maria be sent to Aeternia and she will forward them to the proper place;) This way they will not get lost.
Email Aeternia and she will let you know where to send them.

Also if you would like to leave a message here for Caeca I shall read them to her over the phone, just reply and I will do the rest

Gratias et valete optime

Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83703 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: How to send Messages and Get Wells to Caeca:)
Aeternia Juliae Aquilae Omnibus in foro S.P.D.


You can e-mail me at syrenslullaby@... or musesdream@... subject
header "Caeca".


Vale Optime,
Aeternia

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 2:29 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <
luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Because Caeca will be moving about a bit for the next few weeks we, Maria,
> Aeternia and I, decided that all cards and notes for Maria be sent to
> Aeternia and she will forward them to the proper place;) This way they will
> not get lost.
> Email Aeternia and she will let you know where to send them.
>
> Also if you would like to leave a message here for Caeca I shall read them
> to her over the phone, just reply and I will do the rest
>
> Gratias et valete optime
>
> Julia
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83704 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED
C. Petronius C. Catoni consuli s.p.d.,

> EX OFFICIO P. ULLERI VENATORI GAII EQUITI CATONI CONSULES

When you try to use Latin, and I encourage you to do that, you have to use it in a better fashion...

EX OFFICIO P. VLLERII VENATORIS GAII EQVITII CATONIS CONSVLVM

No thanks, please, it was a pleasure.

But... the following lines, although in a perfect English, are less pleasant.

> Consular edictum acting under SCU on dual memberships - Number I
> A. This consular edictum is issued under the authority of:

This consular edictum, consul, is not a good thing for the dignitas and the auctoritas of the Senate.

The SCU was passed about the dual membership, the senators and I voted to set up and establish rules about the dual membership in Nova Roma and competing organizations. It was a serious problem and we had deep debates. With the possibility to submit a rogatio/bill to the Comitia about the dual membership. But what happened?
(A great deal of effort leading to nothing much.)

This decretum consular...

What a pity!

Did the senators vote a version of Photoshop?

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Martias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83705 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED
Cato Petronio Dextero omnibusque in foro SPD

First, yes, thank you, Petronius Dexter, for the correction in the Latin. I can always say that people often made fun of many ancient writers for their bad Latin grammar...

This has never been done in Nova Roma's history before, that I know of. Many of those who voted for the SCU are now saying either they *thought* it meant something else, or they *think* it means something else, or they *want* it to mean something else, or they didn't think it would be applied so harshly, etc., etc., etc., and to all these and all the citizens of the Respublica I say the following:

Since it is in the full direct authority of the consuls to deal with any situations which arise under the terms of the SCU, why don't you, the People of the Respublica, tell me what you think we should do.

When we find someone who has sworn an oath to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma, her public institutions etc., and yet swears an oath to another entity in direct opposition to us - what would you like us to do?

When someone claims that the Gods have abandoned us, that our citizens are being struck down by the same Gods for our wickedness, that the evil "monotheists" are running the Respublica and trying to destroy the religiones Romanae, that our Respublica is a festering haven of evil and corruption - what would you like us to do?

When we deal with those who deliberately plotted to undermine the civil government of the Respublica, and who failed - what should we do?

Howling for their blood once, now horrified by their treatment...I am not a mind-reader, nor is my colleague (that I know of), nor are either of the censors, and frankly I'm tired of trying to be one. So if removing them from the public spaces of the Respublica is inappropriate for someone like these types mentioned, against whom the SCU is directed, you tell me what you think should happen to them.

Valete bene,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83706 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED
Cato Peronio Dextero sal.

And while my question is being mulled over, I would simply say that this statement:


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> The SCU was passed about the dual membership, the senators and I voted to set up and establish rules about the dual membership in Nova Roma and competing organizations. It was a serious problem and we had deep debates. With the possibility to submit a rogatio/bill to the Comitia about the dual membership.


is not fully correct. There was no specific action prescribed; it was left to the consuls to decide how to implement the SCU. The only consular edict regarding it stated that any magistrates who felt they had cause to be concerned under the terms of the SCU should confer with the consuls and that the consuls would make the final decision, as appropriate under the terms of the SCU.

Now, I am working on a simpler, more direct and perhaps more efficient "template" for the use of the SCU *should it be seen as necessary*; but I will not move forward on it until I have heard from the People and magistrates how *they* think it should read.

In some ways this is like being told just to go out to a field and dig a hole. Then, once the hole has been dug, everyone crowds around and begins describing how the hole *should* have been dug, and why the hole that was dug is unacceptable and contrary to the decision made to dig a hole in the first place, and how it was dug in the wrong area, and just how ugly a hole really is.

Well, here's your chance to tell me EXACTLY what you think the hole should look like.

Vale bene,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83707 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED
Salvete:

Apart from the specifics of the 'nemo' actions that appeared in the edict, I
thought the discussions held in the public fora made the intentions and
potential outcomes of the SCU quite clear. The SCU leaves the specifics of how
to deal with each case up to the discretion of the Consuls. In the case of the
now former citizen who was the subject of this first edict based on the SCU,
that former citizen seems to want to distance himself from Nova Roma and wants
Nova Roma to remove any of his works, which were freely submitted to Nova Roma,
from the NR Wiki. The edict written by the Consuls ensures that no issues
regarding intellectual property or of the use of the likeness of the former
citizen will be raised in the future. The former citizen, his name, his
photographic images and his works will all be removed and he will no longer be
associated with Nova Roma. That seems like a pretty good solution to me and
seems to comply with the wishes of the former citizen.

Bene valete,

M. Pompeius Caninus
Canis Domum
America Boreoccidentalis





________________________________
From: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 14, 2011 3:36:40 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED


Cato Peronio Dextero sal.

And while my question is being mulled over, I would simply say that this
statement:

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> The SCU was passed about the dual membership, the senators and I voted to set
>up and establish rules about the dual membership in Nova Roma and competing
>organizations. It was a serious problem and we had deep debates. With the
>possibility to submit a rogatio/bill to the Comitia about the dual membership.
>


is not fully correct. There was no specific action prescribed; it was left to
the consuls to decide how to implement the SCU. The only consular edict
regarding it stated that any magistrates who felt they had cause to be concerned
under the terms of the SCU should confer with the consuls and that the consuls
would make the final decision, as appropriate under the terms of the SCU.

Now, I am working on a simpler, more direct and perhaps more efficient
"template" for the use of the SCU *should it be seen as necessary*; but I will
not move forward on it until I have heard from the People and magistrates how
*they* think it should read.

In some ways this is like being told just to go out to a field and dig a hole.
Then, once the hole has been dug, everyone crowds around and begins describing
how the hole *should* have been dug, and why the hole that was dug is
unacceptable and contrary to the decision made to dig a hole in the first place,
and how it was dug in the wrong area, and just how ugly a hole really is.


Well, here's your chance to tell me EXACTLY what you think the hole should look
like.

Vale bene,

Cato




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83708 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave,
>
> So it is both barbarious and Roman? LOL

Ok, how about childish and silly? More apt? Keeping the guy out is fine, banning him forever is fine but this smacks like a cheesy attempt at imitating 1984.

"We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia. We are allies with Eurasia!"

New sheet handed to announcer. "We are at war with Eurasia! We have always been at war with Eurasia! We are allies with Eastasia!"


You make the guy more important than he ever was by this act. Nemo, the former 432, once known as Piscinus. Notice how STUPID that makes NR sound? Pretty stupid. We always manage to top our previous attempts at that.

Vale,


Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83709 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Salve amice,


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> Caesar Praetor Lentulo sal.
>
> Actually if this edict is executed properly, we won't look any of those things, because there won't be anything left to look at.
>
> So much drama over what happens in organizations the world over, when someone disgraces themselves in the eyes of the organization, their trophies, photographs, etc are removed from view and they are simply not mentioned again. Honours are removed. Privilges revoked.
>
> Only in Nova Roma would this even be considered by someone an issue. Only in NR would someone advocate for keeping such a person on full public view.

Funny but even though Richard Nixon left office in disgrace, people still learn about him in school. He is still listed in history books as a former president of the United States.


If you pick up a book about the history of Germany in the 20th century, you'll find much written about Adolf Hitler, chancellor of Germany. If you learn the history of Interpol you'll see the pictures and dates of service of their leaders in the 1930s, all SS generals and members of the Gestapo.

Anyone trying to learn the history of NR for the past 3 or 4 years will run into references to "nemo" (I'll say again, notice how STUPID we sound even writing that?) which will mean nothing because there will be no background. Who was this mysterious #432 people will ask? You make him into more than he was as people will seek out information. Who had this banned name? Will we have special banned files for research purposes only, to be released only under guard?

I can't believe we're even discussing this without laughing. Ok, I take that back. I am laughing.

'Nuff said.

Vale bene,


Palladius

>
> Optime vale.
>
>
> --- On Mon, 3/14/11, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> > From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...>
> > Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 12:44 PM
> >
> > Lentulus senatori Petronio sal.
> >
> >
> > The idea in this consular edict is barbarious, but at best
> > highly imperial and not republican at all. It makes us look
> > vengeful, while Piscinus could not even achieve what he
> > wanted, the government punishes him as if he killed dozens
> > of Nova Roma members. With what we could punish a REAL
> > murderer in NR? By deleting even our biological memory in
> > our heads?
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83710 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Cato Iunio Palladio sal.

OK, I take it you are suggesting that we drop the whole "nemo" bit and simply refer to him by his Roman name. That's a good place to start.

I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People of our Respublica like the consuls to work this out?

I don't mean that I'm going to immediately say "oh yeah that's a great idea" but at least I will give everything serious consideration.

This is new, people, and I don't mind taking a few hits for it, but both my colleague and I are truly trying to figure out the best way to go about this. That is, in part, why I made the whole activity surrounding this SCU funnel back to my colleague and I and not let it just be thrown around by any magistrate at their own whim.

Valete bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salve amice,
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@> wrote:
> >
> > Caesar Praetor Lentulo sal.
> >
> > Actually if this edict is executed properly, we won't look any of those things, because there won't be anything left to look at.
> >
> > So much drama over what happens in organizations the world over, when someone disgraces themselves in the eyes of the organization, their trophies, photographs, etc are removed from view and they are simply not mentioned again. Honours are removed. Privilges revoked.
> >
> > Only in Nova Roma would this even be considered by someone an issue. Only in NR would someone advocate for keeping such a person on full public view.
>
> Funny but even though Richard Nixon left office in disgrace, people still learn about him in school. He is still listed in history books as a former president of the United States.
>
>
> If you pick up a book about the history of Germany in the 20th century, you'll find much written about Adolf Hitler, chancellor of Germany. If you learn the history of Interpol you'll see the pictures and dates of service of their leaders in the 1930s, all SS generals and members of the Gestapo.
>
> Anyone trying to learn the history of NR for the past 3 or 4 years will run into references to "nemo" (I'll say again, notice how STUPID we sound even writing that?) which will mean nothing because there will be no background. Who was this mysterious #432 people will ask? You make him into more than he was as people will seek out information. Who had this banned name? Will we have special banned files for research purposes only, to be released only under guard?
>
> I can't believe we're even discussing this without laughing. Ok, I take that back. I am laughing.
>
> 'Nuff said.
>
> Vale bene,
>
>
> Palladius
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83711 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Cn. Lentulus Dec. Palladio principi senatús sal.


>>>> You make the guy more important than he ever was by this act. Nemo, the
former 432, once known as Piscinus. Notice how STUPID that makes NR
sound? Pretty stupid. We always manage to top our previous attempts at
that. <<<<<<


Exactly. I have just recruited a possible citizen last week who is some sort of Roman expert, and when I mentioned the current Past Deletion and history alteration to him at our meeting yesterday, he looked quite strangely at me, and I felt incredibly embarrassed. He told me he expected something serious project on ancient Rome, and that he wasn't interested in such comedies like "Delete All Names of Nonperson No. 36272"...

I was trying to convince him that not all NR is such, but I doubt he would come to our next meeting after this.

We sound more and more like an RPG, and now with Stalinist and Orwellist colors - quite a historio-fantasy...

My solution in applying the SCU in this case would be simply conducting a trial for Piscinus as any citizen must get a trial. If the trial, quite predictably, would condemn him, ban him. That's exactly enough, and anything beyond this looks utterly pretentious and irrealistic.

Piscinus did not kill anyone, and the call for dictator project did not even succed, and it was not even him who would have be the dictator but Cn. Marinus Censorius, and from private conversation with Marinus I know that he was at odds with Piscinus in many things, and as dictator his project was different from what Piscinus had wanted.

So Piscinus can be condemned for seduction to an appointment of dictator - but appointment of dictator can not be called coup. Piscinus certainly can be condemned for attacking NR since he went to the other organization this year, and he spoke against NR. But this is not an act worthy of damnatio memoriae, which is a punishment of those who hurt the current emperor, or of those who are mass murders.


--- Mar 15/3/11, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> ha scritto:

Da: deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Martedì 15 marzo 2011, 03:31







 













--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:

>

> Ave,

>

> So it is both barbarious and Roman? LOL



Ok, how about childish and silly? More apt? Keeping the guy out is fine, banning him forever is fine but this smacks like a cheesy attempt at imitating 1984.



"We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia. We are allies with Eurasia!"



New sheet handed to announcer. "We are at war with Eurasia! We have always been at war with Eurasia! We are allies with Eastasia!"



You make the guy more important than he ever was by this act. Nemo, the former 432, once known as Piscinus. Notice how STUPID that makes NR sound? Pretty stupid. We always manage to top our previous attempts at that.



Vale,



Palladius

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83712 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Answer to the Consul's question
Cn. Lentulus C. Catoni cos. sal.


Honorable Consul, you ask:

"I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People of our Respublica like the consuls to work this out?"

This citizen's answer: Work this out like a res publica, any res publica would work this out in a republican way. Trial, lawful, proper trial.

Once, Piscinus is condemned and expelled, there's nothing more to do... EXCEPT: yes, the work start just then. Namely, if we want that his activity or speeches against NR can not have negative impact on us, we will have to work on projects, activities, convents, studies, PR and recruitment TWICE AS HARD than so far, and if we do so, those who can't bear his fave will not even have time for visiting and re-visiting his photos on our website.

Consul, from the depth of my heart, and under sacred oath I say to you: the ONLY possibility to win and prosper and to get out of this situation is work, projects, and work again, and new projects and new work. Who is organizing this year's USA conventus? Who's doing the European? What new project will substitute the MMP? When we will have a proper Roma republican structure with an ordo equester? When will we get that JSTOR account?

There's plenty to do, and each one of these, if realized, makes us greater, bigger, more successful, and then Piscinus' negative propaganda against NR will fall into nothing.

Once again, Consul illustris, from the depth of my heart: let's get productive, and less political. Nova Roma should be right now talking about interesting project ideas on which we could spend the until today useless treasury. Who invests better he wins.

I want Nova Roma win.





--- Mar 15/3/11, Cato <catoinnyc@...> ha scritto:

Da: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
Oggetto: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Martedì 15 marzo 2011, 04:00







 









Cato Iunio Palladio sal.



OK, I take it you are suggesting that we drop the whole "nemo" bit and simply refer to him by his Roman name. That's a good place to start.



I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People of our Respublica like the consuls to work this out?



I don't mean that I'm going to immediately say "oh yeah that's a great idea" but at least I will give everything serious consideration.



This is new, people, and I don't mind taking a few hits for it, but both my colleague and I are truly trying to figure out the best way to go about this. That is, in part, why I made the whole activity surrounding this SCU funnel back to my colleague and I and not let it just be thrown around by any magistrate at their own whim.



Valete bene,



Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...> wrote:

>

>

> Salve amice,

>

>

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@> wrote:

> >

> > Caesar Praetor Lentulo sal.

> >

> > Actually if this edict is executed properly, we won't look any of those things, because there won't be anything left to look at.

> >

> > So much drama over what happens in organizations the world over, when someone disgraces themselves in the eyes of the organization, their trophies, photographs, etc are removed from view and they are simply not mentioned again. Honours are removed. Privilges revoked.

> >

> > Only in Nova Roma would this even be considered by someone an issue. Only in NR would someone advocate for keeping such a person on full public view.

>

> Funny but even though Richard Nixon left office in disgrace, people still learn about him in school. He is still listed in history books as a former president of the United States.

>

>

> If you pick up a book about the history of Germany in the 20th century, you'll find much written about Adolf Hitler, chancellor of Germany. If you learn the history of Interpol you'll see the pictures and dates of service of their leaders in the 1930s, all SS generals and members of the Gestapo.

>

> Anyone trying to learn the history of NR for the past 3 or 4 years will run into references to "nemo" (I'll say again, notice how STUPID we sound even writing that?) which will mean nothing because there will be no background. Who was this mysterious #432 people will ask? You make him into more than he was as people will seek out information. Who had this banned name? Will we have special banned files for research purposes only, to be released only under guard?

>

> I can't believe we're even discussing this without laughing. Ok, I take that back. I am laughing.

>

> 'Nuff said.

>

> Vale bene,

>

>

> Palladius

>

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83713 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: Answer to the Consul's question
Ave,

I am going to speak against a trial. There is NO ONE in NR capable of being
impartial. Albucius tried to find one and was not able to find one. NO, it
is better that we find the best use of the SCU that will please the most.
Personally I would not have a problem purging him from NR's records, putting
NEMO on there and replacing his picture with the picture of the Big Blue
bubble that news coverage would use to hide the identity of witnesses.

Vale,

Sulla

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Cn. Lentulus C. Catoni cos. sal.
>
> Honorable Consul, you ask:
>
> "I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People of
> our Respublica like the consuls to work this out?"
>
> This citizen's answer: Work this out like a res publica, any res publica
> would work this out in a republican way. Trial, lawful, proper trial.
>
> Once, Piscinus is condemned and expelled, there's nothing more to do...
> EXCEPT: yes, the work start just then. Namely, if we want that his activity
> or speeches against NR can not have negative impact on us, we will have to
> work on projects, activities, convents, studies, PR and recruitment TWICE AS
> HARD than so far, and if we do so, those who can't bear his fave will not
> even have time for visiting and re-visiting his photos on our website.
>
> Consul, from the depth of my heart, and under sacred oath I say to you: the
> ONLY possibility to win and prosper and to get out of this situation is
> work, projects, and work again, and new projects and new work. Who is
> organizing this year's USA conventus? Who's doing the European? What new
> project will substitute the MMP? When we will have a proper Roma republican
> structure with an ordo equester? When will we get that JSTOR account?
>
> There's plenty to do, and each one of these, if realized, makes us greater,
> bigger, more successful, and then Piscinus' negative propaganda against NR
> will fall into nothing.
>
> Once again, Consul illustris, from the depth of my heart: let's get
> productive, and less political. Nova Roma should be right now talking about
> interesting project ideas on which we could spend the until today useless
> treasury. Who invests better he wins.
>
> I want Nova Roma win.
>
> --- Mar 15/3/11, Cato <catoinnyc@...> ha scritto:
>
> Da: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
> Oggetto: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Marted� 15 marzo 2011, 04:00
>
>
>
> Cato Iunio Palladio sal.
>
> OK, I take it you are suggesting that we drop the whole "nemo" bit and
> simply refer to him by his Roman name. That's a good place to start.
>
> I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People of
> our Respublica like the consuls to work this out?
>
> I don't mean that I'm going to immediately say "oh yeah that's a great
> idea" but at least I will give everything serious consideration.
>
> This is new, people, and I don't mind taking a few hits for it, but both my
> colleague and I are truly trying to figure out the best way to go about
> this. That is, in part, why I made the whole activity surrounding this SCU
> funnel back to my colleague and I and not let it just be thrown around by
> any magistrate at their own whim.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Salve amice,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
> <gn_iulius_caesar@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Caesar Praetor Lentulo sal.
>
> > >
>
> > > Actually if this edict is executed properly, we won't look any of those
> things, because there won't be anything left to look at.
>
> > >
>
> > > So much drama over what happens in organizations the world over, when
> someone disgraces themselves in the eyes of the organization, their
> trophies, photographs, etc are removed from view and they are simply not
> mentioned again. Honours are removed. Privilges revoked.
>
> > >
>
> > > Only in Nova Roma would this even be considered by someone an issue.
> Only in NR would someone advocate for keeping such a person on full public
> view.
>
> >
>
> > Funny but even though Richard Nixon left office in disgrace, people still
> learn about him in school. He is still listed in history books as a former
> president of the United States.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > If you pick up a book about the history of Germany in the 20th century,
> you'll find much written about Adolf Hitler, chancellor of Germany. If you
> learn the history of Interpol you'll see the pictures and dates of service
> of their leaders in the 1930s, all SS generals and members of the Gestapo.
>
> >
>
> > Anyone trying to learn the history of NR for the past 3 or 4 years will
> run into references to "nemo" (I'll say again, notice how STUPID we sound
> even writing that?) which will mean nothing because there will be no
> background. Who was this mysterious #432 people will ask? You make him into
> more than he was as people will seek out information. Who had this banned
> name? Will we have special banned files for research purposes only, to be
> released only under guard?
>
> >
>
> > I can't believe we're even discussing this without laughing. Ok, I take
> that back. I am laughing.
>
> >
>
> > 'Nuff said.
>
> >
>
> > Vale bene,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Palladius
>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83714 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: Answer to the Consul's question
Cn. Lentulus L. Sullae sal.


Then let's get Comitia vote on him.

Or let's get the Senate, if the Comitia were considered to be a bad idea.

Or, Gods, just ban through this edict based on the SCU but then period, no Orwell Parody, no Stalinus, no New Roman Kimjongilus.

There's NO better PR and propaganda ADVANCING Piscinus' cause than doing theatrical actions against his face, photos, names etc. I bet right now Piscinus is praying that this damnatio memoriae be applied - he would use as an anti-NR propaganda for at least a decade.



--- Mar 15/3/11, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> ha scritto:

Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Answer to the Consul's question
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Martedì 15 marzo 2011, 04:20

Ave,

I am going to speak against a trial.  There is NO ONE in NR capable of being
impartial.  Albucius tried to find one and was not able to find one.  NO, it
is better that we find the best use of the SCU that will please the most.
Personally I would not have a problem purging him from NR's records, putting
NEMO on there and replacing his picture with the picture of the Big Blue
bubble that news coverage would use to hide the identity of witnesses.

Vale,

Sulla

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Cn. Lentulus C. Catoni cos. sal.
>
> Honorable Consul, you ask:
>
> "I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People of
> our Respublica like the consuls to work this out?"
>
> This citizen's answer: Work this out like a res publica, any res publica
> would work this out in a republican way. Trial, lawful, proper trial.
>
> Once, Piscinus is condemned and expelled, there's nothing more to do...
> EXCEPT: yes, the work start just then. Namely, if we want that his activity
> or speeches against NR can not have negative impact on us, we will have to
> work on projects, activities, convents, studies, PR and recruitment TWICE AS
> HARD than so far, and if we do so, those who can't bear his fave will not
> even have time for visiting and re-visiting his photos on our website.
>
> Consul, from the depth of my heart, and under sacred oath I say to you: the
> ONLY possibility to win and prosper and to get out of this situation is
> work, projects, and work again, and new projects and new work. Who is
> organizing this year's USA conventus? Who's doing the European? What new
> project will substitute the MMP? When we will have a proper Roma republican
> structure with an ordo equester? When will we get that JSTOR account?
>
> There's plenty to do, and each one of these, if realized, makes us greater,
> bigger, more successful, and then Piscinus' negative propaganda against NR
> will fall into nothing.
>
> Once again, Consul illustris, from the depth of my heart: let's get
> productive, and less political. Nova Roma should be right now talking about
> interesting project ideas on which we could spend the until today useless
> treasury. Who invests better he wins.
>
> I want Nova Roma win.
>
> --- Mar 15/3/11, Cato <catoinnyc@...> ha scritto:
>
> Da: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
> Oggetto: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Martedì 15 marzo 2011, 04:00
>
>
>
> Cato Iunio Palladio sal.
>
> OK, I take it you are suggesting that we drop the whole "nemo" bit and
> simply refer to him by his Roman name. That's a good place to start.
>
> I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People of
> our Respublica like the consuls to work this out?
>
> I don't mean that I'm going to immediately say "oh yeah that's a great
> idea" but at least I will give everything serious consideration.
>
> This is new, people, and I don't mind taking a few hits for it, but both my
> colleague and I are truly trying to figure out the best way to go about
> this. That is, in part, why I made the whole activity surrounding this SCU
> funnel back to my colleague and I and not let it just be thrown around by
> any magistrate at their own whim.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Salve amice,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
> <gn_iulius_caesar@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Caesar Praetor Lentulo sal.
>
> > >
>
> > > Actually if this edict is executed properly, we won't look any of those
> things, because there won't be anything left to look at.
>
> > >
>
> > > So much drama over what happens in organizations the world over, when
> someone disgraces themselves in the eyes of the organization, their
> trophies, photographs, etc are removed from view and they are simply not
> mentioned again. Honours are removed. Privilges revoked.
>
> > >
>
> > > Only in Nova Roma would this even be considered by someone an issue.
> Only in NR would someone advocate for keeping such a person on full public
> view.
>
> >
>
> > Funny but even though Richard Nixon left office in disgrace, people still
> learn about him in school. He is still listed in history books as a former
> president of the United States.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > If you pick up a book about the history of Germany in the 20th century,
> you'll find much written about Adolf Hitler, chancellor of Germany. If you
> learn the history of Interpol you'll see the pictures and dates of service
> of their leaders in the 1930s, all SS generals and members of the Gestapo.
>
> >
>
> > Anyone trying to learn the history of NR for the past 3 or 4 years will
> run into references to "nemo" (I'll say again, notice how STUPID we sound
> even writing that?) which will mean nothing because there will be no
> background. Who was this mysterious #432 people will ask? You make him into
> more than he was as people will seek out information. Who had this banned
> name? Will we have special banned files for research purposes only, to be
> released only under guard?
>
> >
>
> > I can't believe we're even discussing this without laughing. Ok, I take
> that back. I am laughing.
>
> >
>
> > 'Nuff said.
>
> >
>
> > Vale bene,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Palladius
>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83715 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: The SCU - setting the stage
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

I thought it might be useful to look at a couple of things regarding the senatus consultum ultimum (SCU), the edict, and the way this works under our law and how I would *like* it to work.

The Senate passes an SCU giving the consuls (according to our Constitution) "absolute powers to deal with a specific situation, subject only to their collegial veto and review by the Senate." (NR Const. VI.E)

An edict pronounced by the consuls acting under the SCU is second only to the Constitution in legal authority: "[The Constitution] shall thereafter be followed in legal authority by edicta issued by consuls acting under the Senatus consulta ultima" (op.cit. I.B), so there is no higher authority other than the Constitution than an edict issued by a consul acting under an SCU (apart from a dictator's edicts, but for the moment let's remove the dictator from the picture).

The SCU the Senate passed on a.d. IV Kal. Mar. (28 February) gives the consuls "direct authority to oversee the application of this
senatus consultum ultimum, especially in coordinating the action of all Nova Roma officials in charge of its application and with full authority to interpret and apply its provisions wherever and whenever a question may arise." (SCU a.d. IV Kal. Mar., section 5) So there is no question that we can, and will, apply the SCU in the manner we best see fit.

We (the consuls) further honed that "application" by issuing an edict explaining how we wished to go about this procedure: magistrates bring us their concerns and we, with them (and if necessary the citizen involved) would determine what, if any, action should be taken under the terms of the SCU.

Without pretension, I can tell you very clearly that I - and many, many others - believe Piscinus needed to go; his words and acts are so inimical to our well-being that it is difficult to imagine anyone with more animus towards us as a whole Respublica, and towards several of us individually. Perhaps this very visceral response to someone whose past actions have caused so much strife and harm was/is a stumbling block, and the edict banishing him may have been a little...tedious and overbearing.

The end result of this edict was meant to remove his citizenship and any/all titles, dignities, and honors within the Respublica; remove all his writings from our Wiki - a process that was begun, actually, by one of his friends without our knowledge or consent until we caught her, and later spurred by his own threats of a lawsuit for copyright infringement; removal of his presence from all official fora of the Respublica; ban him forever from returning to the Respublica; and finally, his solo photographs which may fall under copyright as well, so their removal.

As I have indicated, I am not willing to revoke the edict - it stands, and it will stand. I will, however, consider amendments to it regarding those sections/phrases which you, the People, find most unnecessary or objectionable. I say again "consider"; ultimately, my colleague and I were elected to do a job and ultimately it is by us that final decisions must be made, in accordance with the SCU.

But it is also you, the People, who must feel if not necessarily happy, at least comfortable with the actions of the government in which you have invested the imperium to act in your name.

So.

That's where I am standing. I hope this makes how I see things a little clearer.

Valete bene,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83716 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: Answer to the Consul's question
Ave!

The Comitia cant vote because we have no election officers..remember I was
the only one and I had to resign when I became CFO.

I dont have a problem with the Senate passing a Senatus Consulta on
banishing him but it would not be legal. THE SCU IS LEGAL. But then
legalities seem to be inconvenient for you.

I would prefer him to be banished and his record/Album removed and be done
with it. This constant debate is just tiresome. The SCU passed..the
consuls issued the edict just enforce it and be done with it and move onto
other areas that need attention. This constant harping does better cause in
advancing Fishhead's cause than the effort to remove him from the Wiki.

Vale,

Sulla

On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 8:30 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
>
> Cn. Lentulus L. Sullae sal.
>
> Then let's get Comitia vote on him.
>
> Or let's get the Senate, if the Comitia were considered to be a bad idea.
>
> Or, Gods, just ban through this edict based on the SCU but then period, no
> Orwell Parody, no Stalinus, no New Roman Kimjongilus.
>
> There's NO better PR and propaganda ADVANCING Piscinus' cause than doing
> theatrical actions against his face, photos, names etc. I bet right now
> Piscinus is praying that this damnatio memoriae be applied - he would use as
> an anti-NR propaganda for at least a decade.
>
> --- Mar 15/3/11, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> ha scritto:
>
> Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Answer to the Consul's question
>
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Marted� 15 marzo 2011, 04:20
>
>
> Ave,
>
> I am going to speak against a trial. There is NO ONE in NR capable of
> being
> impartial. Albucius tried to find one and was not able to find one. NO,
> it
> is better that we find the best use of the SCU that will please the most.
> Personally I would not have a problem purging him from NR's records,
> putting
> NEMO on there and replacing his picture with the picture of the Big Blue
> bubble that news coverage would use to hide the identity of witnesses.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Mon, Mar 14, 2011 at 8:18 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
> cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Cn. Lentulus C. Catoni cos. sal.
> >
> > Honorable Consul, you ask:
> >
> > "I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People
> of
> > our Respublica like the consuls to work this out?"
> >
> > This citizen's answer: Work this out like a res publica, any res publica
> > would work this out in a republican way. Trial, lawful, proper trial.
> >
> > Once, Piscinus is condemned and expelled, there's nothing more to do...
> > EXCEPT: yes, the work start just then. Namely, if we want that his
> activity
> > or speeches against NR can not have negative impact on us, we will have
> to
> > work on projects, activities, convents, studies, PR and recruitment TWICE
> AS
> > HARD than so far, and if we do so, those who can't bear his fave will not
> > even have time for visiting and re-visiting his photos on our website.
> >
> > Consul, from the depth of my heart, and under sacred oath I say to you:
> the
> > ONLY possibility to win and prosper and to get out of this situation is
> > work, projects, and work again, and new projects and new work. Who is
> > organizing this year's USA conventus? Who's doing the European? What new
> > project will substitute the MMP? When we will have a proper Roma
> republican
> > structure with an ordo equester? When will we get that JSTOR account?
> >
> > There's plenty to do, and each one of these, if realized, makes us
> greater,
> > bigger, more successful, and then Piscinus' negative propaganda against
> NR
> > will fall into nothing.
> >
> > Once again, Consul illustris, from the depth of my heart: let's get
> > productive, and less political. Nova Roma should be right now talking
> about
> > interesting project ideas on which we could spend the until today useless
> > treasury. Who invests better he wins.
> >
> > I want Nova Roma win.
> >
> > --- Mar 15/3/11, Cato <catoinnyc@...> ha scritto:
> >
> > Da: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
> > Oggetto: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
> > A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Data: Marted� 15 marzo 2011, 04:00
> >
> >
> >
> > Cato Iunio Palladio sal.
> >
> > OK, I take it you are suggesting that we drop the whole "nemo" bit and
> > simply refer to him by his Roman name. That's a good place to start.
> >
> > I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People of
> > our Respublica like the consuls to work this out?
> >
> > I don't mean that I'm going to immediately say "oh yeah that's a great
> > idea" but at least I will give everything serious consideration.
> >
> > This is new, people, and I don't mind taking a few hits for it, but both
> my
> > colleague and I are truly trying to figure out the best way to go about
> > this. That is, in part, why I made the whole activity surrounding this
> SCU
> > funnel back to my colleague and I and not let it just be thrown around by
> > any magistrate at their own whim.
> >
> > Valete bene,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Salve amice,
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar
> > <gn_iulius_caesar@> wrote:
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Caesar Praetor Lentulo sal.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Actually if this edict is executed properly, we won't look any of
> those
> > things, because there won't be anything left to look at.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > So much drama over what happens in organizations the world over, when
> > someone disgraces themselves in the eyes of the organization, their
> > trophies, photographs, etc are removed from view and they are simply not
> > mentioned again. Honours are removed. Privilges revoked.
> >
> > > >
> >
> > > > Only in Nova Roma would this even be considered by someone an issue.
> > Only in NR would someone advocate for keeping such a person on full
> public
> > view.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Funny but even though Richard Nixon left office in disgrace, people
> still
> > learn about him in school. He is still listed in history books as a
> former
> > president of the United States.
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > If you pick up a book about the history of Germany in the 20th century,
> > you'll find much written about Adolf Hitler, chancellor of Germany. If
> you
> > learn the history of Interpol you'll see the pictures and dates of
> service
> > of their leaders in the 1930s, all SS generals and members of the
> Gestapo.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Anyone trying to learn the history of NR for the past 3 or 4 years will
> > run into references to "nemo" (I'll say again, notice how STUPID we sound
> > even writing that?) which will mean nothing because there will be no
> > background. Who was this mysterious #432 people will ask? You make him
> into
> > more than he was as people will seek out information. Who had this banned
> > name? Will we have special banned files for research purposes only, to be
> > released only under guard?
> >
> > >
> >
> > > I can't believe we're even discussing this without laughing. Ok, I take
> > that back. I am laughing.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > 'Nuff said.
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Vale bene,
> >
> > >
> >
> > >
> >
> > > Palladius
> >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83717 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: Answer to the Consul's question
Cato Lentulo sal.

With respect, Lentulus, the SCU was passed to remove the necessity of a trial. This is not something that I am prepared to argue over. The SCU stands as law. We must work *within* it.

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
>
> Cn. Lentulus C. Catoni cos. sal.
>
>
> Honorable Consul, you ask:
>
> "I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People of our Respublica like the consuls to work this out?"
>
> This citizen's answer: Work this out like a res publica, any res publica would work this out in a republican way. Trial, lawful, proper trial.
>
> Once, Piscinus is condemned and expelled, there's nothing more to do... EXCEPT: yes, the work start just then. Namely, if we want that his activity or speeches against NR can not have negative impact on us, we will have to work on projects, activities, convents, studies, PR and recruitment TWICE AS HARD than so far, and if we do so, those who can't bear his fave will not even have time for visiting and re-visiting his photos on our website.
>
> Consul, from the depth of my heart, and under sacred oath I say to you: the ONLY possibility to win and prosper and to get out of this situation is work, projects, and work again, and new projects and new work. Who is organizing this year's USA conventus? Who's doing the European? What new project will substitute the MMP? When we will have a proper Roma republican structure with an ordo equester? When will we get that JSTOR account?
>
> There's plenty to do, and each one of these, if realized, makes us greater, bigger, more successful, and then Piscinus' negative propaganda against NR will fall into nothing.
>
> Once again, Consul illustris, from the depth of my heart: let's get productive, and less political. Nova Roma should be right now talking about interesting project ideas on which we could spend the until today useless treasury. Who invests better he wins.
>
> I want Nova Roma win.
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Mar 15/3/11, Cato <catoinnyc@...> ha scritto:
>
> Da: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
> Oggetto: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Martedì 15 marzo 2011, 04:00
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cato Iunio Palladio sal.
>
>
>
> OK, I take it you are suggesting that we drop the whole "nemo" bit and simply refer to him by his Roman name. That's a good place to start.
>
>
>
> I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People of our Respublica like the consuls to work this out?
>
>
>
> I don't mean that I'm going to immediately say "oh yeah that's a great idea" but at least I will give everything serious consideration.
>
>
>
> This is new, people, and I don't mind taking a few hits for it, but both my colleague and I are truly trying to figure out the best way to go about this. That is, in part, why I made the whole activity surrounding this SCU funnel back to my colleague and I and not let it just be thrown around by any magistrate at their own whim.
>
>
>
> Valete bene,
>
>
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Salve amice,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Caesar Praetor Lentulo sal.
>
> > >
>
> > > Actually if this edict is executed properly, we won't look any of those things, because there won't be anything left to look at.
>
> > >
>
> > > So much drama over what happens in organizations the world over, when someone disgraces themselves in the eyes of the organization, their trophies, photographs, etc are removed from view and they are simply not mentioned again. Honours are removed. Privilges revoked.
>
> > >
>
> > > Only in Nova Roma would this even be considered by someone an issue. Only in NR would someone advocate for keeping such a person on full public view.
>
> >
>
> > Funny but even though Richard Nixon left office in disgrace, people still learn about him in school. He is still listed in history books as a former president of the United States.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > If you pick up a book about the history of Germany in the 20th century, you'll find much written about Adolf Hitler, chancellor of Germany. If you learn the history of Interpol you'll see the pictures and dates of service of their leaders in the 1930s, all SS generals and members of the Gestapo.
>
> >
>
> > Anyone trying to learn the history of NR for the past 3 or 4 years will run into references to "nemo" (I'll say again, notice how STUPID we sound even writing that?) which will mean nothing because there will be no background. Who was this mysterious #432 people will ask? You make him into more than he was as people will seek out information. Who had this banned name? Will we have special banned files for research purposes only, to be released only under guard?
>
> >
>
> > I can't believe we're even discussing this without laughing. Ok, I take that back. I am laughing.
>
> >
>
> > 'Nuff said.
>
> >
>
> > Vale bene,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Palladius
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83718 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: Answer to the Consul's question
Salve, consul!

Than what remains is banning, but I guess it has been done today.

Nothing else is needed. Where we stand right now, after his citizenship has been revoked, it is where we should stop.

Vale!


--- Mar 15/3/11, Cato <catoinnyc@...> ha scritto:

Da: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Answer to the Consul's question
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Martedì 15 marzo 2011, 04:35







 









Cato Lentulo sal.



With respect, Lentulus, the SCU was passed to remove the necessity of a trial. This is not something that I am prepared to argue over. The SCU stands as law. We must work *within* it.



Vale bene,



Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>

>

> Cn. Lentulus C. Catoni cos. sal.

>

>

> Honorable Consul, you ask:

>

> "I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People of our Respublica like the consuls to work this out?"

>

> This citizen's answer: Work this out like a res publica, any res publica would work this out in a republican way. Trial, lawful, proper trial.

>

> Once, Piscinus is condemned and expelled, there's nothing more to do... EXCEPT: yes, the work start just then. Namely, if we want that his activity or speeches against NR can not have negative impact on us, we will have to work on projects, activities, convents, studies, PR and recruitment TWICE AS HARD than so far, and if we do so, those who can't bear his fave will not even have time for visiting and re-visiting his photos on our website.

>

> Consul, from the depth of my heart, and under sacred oath I say to you: the ONLY possibility to win and prosper and to get out of this situation is work, projects, and work again, and new projects and new work. Who is organizing this year's USA conventus? Who's doing the European? What new project will substitute the MMP? When we will have a proper Roma republican structure with an ordo equester? When will we get that JSTOR account?

>

> There's plenty to do, and each one of these, if realized, makes us greater, bigger, more successful, and then Piscinus' negative propaganda against NR will fall into nothing.

>

> Once again, Consul illustris, from the depth of my heart: let's get productive, and less political. Nova Roma should be right now talking about interesting project ideas on which we could spend the until today useless treasury. Who invests better he wins.

>

> I want Nova Roma win.

>

>

>

>

>

> --- Mar 15/3/11, Cato <catoinnyc@...> ha scritto:

>

> Da: Cato <catoinnyc@...>

> Oggetto: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected

> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

> Data: Martedì 15 marzo 2011, 04:00

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Cato Iunio Palladio sal.

>

>

>

> OK, I take it you are suggesting that we drop the whole "nemo" bit and simply refer to him by his Roman name. That's a good place to start.

>

>

>

> I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People of our Respublica like the consuls to work this out?

>

>

>

> I don't mean that I'm going to immediately say "oh yeah that's a great idea" but at least I will give everything serious consideration.

>

>

>

> This is new, people, and I don't mind taking a few hits for it, but both my colleague and I are truly trying to figure out the best way to go about this. That is, in part, why I made the whole activity surrounding this SCU funnel back to my colleague and I and not let it just be thrown around by any magistrate at their own whim.

>

>

>

> Valete bene,

>

>

>

> Cato

>

>

>

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@> wrote:

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Salve amice,

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@> wrote:

>

> > >

>

> > > Caesar Praetor Lentulo sal.

>

> > >

>

> > > Actually if this edict is executed properly, we won't look any of those things, because there won't be anything left to look at.

>

> > >

>

> > > So much drama over what happens in organizations the world over, when someone disgraces themselves in the eyes of the organization, their trophies, photographs, etc are removed from view and they are simply not mentioned again. Honours are removed. Privilges revoked.

>

> > >

>

> > > Only in Nova Roma would this even be considered by someone an issue. Only in NR would someone advocate for keeping such a person on full public view.

>

> >

>

> > Funny but even though Richard Nixon left office in disgrace, people still learn about him in school. He is still listed in history books as a former president of the United States.

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > If you pick up a book about the history of Germany in the 20th century, you'll find much written about Adolf Hitler, chancellor of Germany. If you learn the history of Interpol you'll see the pictures and dates of service of their leaders in the 1930s, all SS generals and members of the Gestapo.

>

> >

>

> > Anyone trying to learn the history of NR for the past 3 or 4 years will run into references to "nemo" (I'll say again, notice how STUPID we sound even writing that?) which will mean nothing because there will be no background. Who was this mysterious #432 people will ask? You make him into more than he was as people will seek out information. Who had this banned name? Will we have special banned files for research purposes only, to be released only under guard?

>

> >

>

> > I can't believe we're even discussing this without laughing. Ok, I take that back. I am laughing.

>

> >

>

> > 'Nuff said.

>

> >

>

> > Vale bene,

>

> >

>

> >

>

> > Palladius

>

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83719 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-14
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Salve amice

Again, I don't have any problem removing his details from our website. None. Corporate websites don't display front and center the biographies of a former disgraced official.

As to how we seem, again I think that this is more accurate to say how we seem to ourselves. It is highly unlikely that any interested third party is going to take note of this. I think it somewhat amusingly typical that we imagine what we do, or don't do, is going to have some wider impact in the world. So I look at this and feel perfectly at ease with it. This is more about why individuals in NR feel uncomfortable about it, than an objective reaction.

People who disgrace themselves in other organizations can expect to have their details removed. Period.

Also raised by someone was how much ammunition it gives people. Again I don't care what ammunition Piscinus has or doesn't have. He is hardly unlikely ever to give a glowing account, whether he had remained in NR or not.

Vale bene
Caesar


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83720 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Caesar Lentulo sal.

Ah yes now I see the problem, It isn't really about anything other than you get embarassed about explaining it.

Optime vale

--- On Mon, 3/14/11, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

> From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...>
> Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 9:02 PM
>
> Cn. Lentulus Dec. Palladio principi senatús sal.
>
>
> >>>> You make the guy more important than he
> ever was by this act. Nemo, the
> former 432, once known as Piscinus. Notice how STUPID that
> makes NR
> sound? Pretty stupid. We always manage to top our previous
> attempts at
> that. <<<<<<
>
>
> Exactly. I have just recruited a possible citizen last week
> who is some sort of Roman expert, and when I mentioned the
> current Past Deletion and history alteration to him at our
> meeting yesterday, he looked quite strangely at me, and I
> felt incredibly embarrassed. He told me he expected
> something serious project on ancient Rome, and that he
> wasn't interested in such comedies like "Delete All Names of
> Nonperson No. 36272"...
>
> I was trying to convince him that not all NR is such, but I
> doubt he would come to our next meeting after this.
>
> We sound more and more like an RPG, and now with Stalinist
> and Orwellist colors - quite a historio-fantasy...
>
> My solution in applying the SCU in this case would be
> simply conducting a trial for Piscinus as any citizen must
> get a trial. If the trial, quite predictably, would condemn
> him, ban him. That's exactly enough, and anything beyond
> this looks utterly pretentious and irrealistic.
>
> Piscinus did not kill anyone, and the call for dictator
> project did not even succed, and it was not even him who
> would have be the dictator but Cn. Marinus Censorius, and
> from private conversation with Marinus I know that he was at
> odds with Piscinus in many things, and as dictator his
> project was different from what Piscinus had wanted.
>
> So Piscinus can be condemned for seduction to an
> appointment of dictator - but appointment of dictator can
> not be called coup. Piscinus certainly can be condemned for
> attacking NR since he went to the other organization this
> year, and he spoke against NR. But this is not an act worthy
> of damnatio memoriae, which is a punishment of those who
> hurt the current emperor, or of those who are mass murders.
>
>
>
> --- Mar 15/3/11, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
> ha scritto:
>
> Da: deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Martedì 15 marzo 2011, 03:31
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>    
>      
>      
>      
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Ave,
>
> >
>
> > So it is both barbarious and Roman? LOL
>
>
>
> Ok, how about childish and silly? More apt? Keeping the guy
> out is fine, banning him forever is fine but this smacks
> like a cheesy attempt at imitating 1984.
>
>
>
> "We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war
> with Eastasia. We are allies with Eurasia!"
>
>
>
> New sheet handed to announcer. "We are at war with Eurasia!
> We have always been at war with Eurasia! We are allies with
> Eastasia!"
>
>
>
> You make the guy more important than he ever was by this
> act. Nemo, the former 432, once known as Piscinus. Notice
> how STUPID that makes NR sound? Pretty stupid. We always
> manage to top our previous attempts at that.
>
>
>
> Vale,
>
>
>
> Palladius
>
>
>
>
>
>    
>      
>
>    
>    
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>      
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83721 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Cato Iulio Caesari omnibusque in foro SPD

I agree to a point. But I think we need to start thinking bigger than just a corporation, too. This makes your point more interesting.

How would a *nation* approach this? It is true that Germany, Italy, Russia, the Eastern European nations which were held under Soviet domination, etc. - all modern nations most certainly preserve even the most unsavory aspects of their own histories as simply a part of the cultural make-up of those countries' histories.

In the United States our own bouts of unappetizing actions - the displacement of the Native American tribes, Benedict Arnold, the Civil War, slavery, the Japanese internment camps, etc., are up for display quite obviously as part of the struggles we have faced in our nation's past.

But on the other hand, we are a restoration of an *ancient Roman Republic*. The rulers of almost every ancient culture, religious and civil, were quite adept at ferociously attacking and destroying all traces of those who fell from favor or were disgraced by their actions.

Think, for instance, of all the religious sects determined to be "heresies" by the Orthodox Church for the first few centuries - we know almost nothing about them, our only sources being the tirades of Orthodox Fathers against them, their own works having been so systematically and thoroughly destroyed.

Think of the countless times busts and statues - and whole buildings and even cities - were torn down throughout ancient Babylonia, Persia, Greece and Rome as one or another popular figure became outcast or an enemy was defeated.

Food for thought.

Valete bene,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83722 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Caeaar Catoni sal.

Amice I agree. I said corporation simply because that grounds it in the realities of life today, without making any wider claims or assumptions.

In a "real" Roman state with land and all the usual instruments of government, well I suspect dear ole Piscinus would be puffing away at a set of oars in the depths of some galley, if he hadn't simply have been executed forthwith.

It's easier in my mind however to keep this to the level of corporations, else or the usual emotion of the nation/state debate starts.

Optime vale


--- On Mon, 3/14/11, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

> From: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
> Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 10:12 PM
> Cato Iulio Caesari omnibusque in foro
> SPD
>
> I agree to a point.  But I think we need to start
> thinking bigger than just a corporation, too.  This
> makes your point more interesting.
>
> How would a *nation* approach this?  It is true that
> Germany, Italy, Russia, the Eastern European nations which
> were held under Soviet domination, etc. - all modern nations
> most certainly preserve even the most unsavory aspects of
> their own histories as simply a part of the cultural make-up
> of those countries' histories.
>
> In the United States our own bouts of unappetizing actions
> - the displacement of the Native American tribes, Benedict
> Arnold, the Civil War, slavery, the Japanese internment
> camps, etc., are up for display quite obviously as part of
> the struggles we have faced in our nation's past.
>
> But on the other hand, we are a restoration of an *ancient
> Roman Republic*.  The rulers of almost every ancient
> culture, religious and civil, were quite adept at
> ferociously attacking and destroying all traces of those who
> fell from favor or were disgraced by their actions. 
>
> Think, for instance, of all the religious sects determined
> to be "heresies" by the Orthodox Church for the first few
> centuries - we know almost nothing about them, our only
> sources being the tirades of Orthodox Fathers against them,
> their own works having been so systematically and thoroughly
> destroyed.
>
> Think of the countless times busts and statues - and whole
> buildings and even cities - were torn down throughout
> ancient Babylonia, Persia, Greece and Rome as one or another
> popular figure became outcast or an enemy was defeated.
>
> Food for thought.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83723 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Iunio Palladio sal.

Salve consul,
>
> OK, I take it you are suggesting that we drop the whole "nemo" bit >and simply refer to him by his Roman name. That's a good place to start.

I agree, it would be. Kick him out, ban him forever but for Gods' sake drop the whole Finding Nemo bit. *humor, ar, ar**


> I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People of our Respublica like the consuls to work this out?

Remove him from citizenship, ban him from ever returning, plain and simple. Any references in the Wiki etc can remain but perhaps access to them can be limited so people can't make modfifications so he isn't made out to be something he wasn't. Keep his basic info and history and move on. Like it or not he is part of our history. No one liked it when Cincinnatus was removed from our history back in 1999, when he was even removed from the name of the year. This is the same thing.

Right now the spite being shown isn't worthy of Nova Roma. I'm not calling for mercy, I'm just asking we not go into the realm of the absurd either, that's all.

Vale,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83724 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Salve amice,



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> Salve amice
>
> Again, I don't have any problem removing his details from our website. None. Corporate websites don't display front and center the biographies of a former disgraced official.

I do. How can it possibly benefit us? I haven't seen a single reason put forward yet how we benefit or why this is being done.

Is Piscinus paying for this free advertisement? Gods if we're going to do him this kind of favor we might as well get money out of it. We're not getting any other benefit.

Vale,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83725 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Salve amice

And equally I haven't seen one argument that convinces me otherwise. As I did say in the Senate, there should be abolsutely no reward for his type of behaviour, there are his copyright claims, there is the focus his pages will attract, and bottom line his records can be text filed and out into the Senate list files.

No publicity. No record. No trace. someone said leave it up so we could learn something. You might have laughed at nemo, but I nearly split my sides on that one. Nova Roma learn anything from its past! Hilarious delusion.

Piscinus will milk his departure in his own way, whatever we do or don't. His collection of wormtongues are already hard at it elsewhere and actually have been well prior to this edict being established. Now granted he is preaching to the converted, all supping his brand of kool-aid, but the point is whatever we say etc. He will morph.

Therefore - since no one in the outwide world gives a damn, and since Piscinus will continue to spread his lies and twisted verson whatever we do or don't, then why should I look at his garbage on our site? So what do we gain? Not rewarding him by befouling our website with his details. That is for starters, but frankly imo well good enough.

Vale bene
Caesar


--- On Tue, 3/15/11, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> wrote:

> From: deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
> Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 12:42 AM
> Salve amice,
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve amice
> >
> > Again, I don't have any problem removing his
> details from our website. None. Corporate websites don't
> display front and center the biographies of a former
> disgraced official.
>
> I do. How can it possibly benefit us? I haven't seen a
> single reason put forward yet how we benefit or why this is
> being done.
>
> Is Piscinus paying for this free advertisement? Gods if
> we're going to do him this kind of favor we might as well
> get money out of it. We're not getting any other benefit.
>
> Vale,
>
> Palladius
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83726 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: How to send Messages and Get Wells to Caeca:)
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Juliae Aquilae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Salvete omnes,
>
> Because Caeca will be moving about a bit for the next few weeks we, Maria,
> Aeternia and I, decided that all cards and notes for Maria be sent to Aeternia
> and she will forward them to the proper place;) This way they will not get
> lost.
>
> ATS: Have you spoken with her since my last chat? If so, any news?
> Secondly, does she have that laptop (which I doubt)? She cannot read without
> her adaptive equipment.
>
>
> Email Aeternia and she will let you know where to send them.
>
> Also if you would like to leave a message here for Caeca I shall read them to
> her over the phone, just reply and I will do the rest
>
> ATS: She knows we are thinking of her. The Three Graces must stick
> together.
>
> Gratias et valete optime
>
> Julia
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83727 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> C. Petronius C. Catoni consuli s.p.d.,
>
>> > EX OFFICIO P. ULLERI VENATORI GAII EQUITI CATONI CONSULES
>
> When you try to use Latin, and I encourage you to do that, you have to use it
> in a better fashion...
>
> EX OFFICIO P. VLLERII VENATORIS GAII EQVITII CATONIS CONSVLVM
>
> No thanks, please, it was a pleasure.
>
>
> ATS: Nuper eum privatim (et in curiá) monui, sed cerebro haud haustum
> est...
>
> But... the following lines, although in a perfect English, are less pleasant.
>
>> > Consular edictum acting under SCU on dual memberships - Number I
>> > A. This consular edictum is issued under the authority of:
>
> This consular edictum, consul, is not a good thing for the dignitas and the
> auctoritas of the Senate.
>
> ATS: Indeed it is not. It is quite the reverse.
>
> The SCU was passed about the dual membership, the senators and I voted to set
> up and establish rules about the dual membership in Nova Roma and competing
> organizations. It was a serious problem and we had deep debates. With the
> possibility to submit a rogatio/bill to the Comitia about the dual membership.
> But what happened?
> (A great deal of effort leading to nothing much.)
>
> This decretum consular...
>
> What a pity!
>
> ATS: I agree.
>
> Did the senators vote a version of Photoshop?
>
> ATS: Well, they dredged up their sixth-grade history lessons about
> Pharaoh Hatshepsut, and mixed them thoroughly with essence of Joe Stalin and
> other assorted dictators, and added a liberal dose of 1984 and Brave New World
> for good measure. Other parties, meanwhile, were engrossed in a little book
> by a certain Niccolo M., while the IT guy instructed the rest on the latest
> version of Photoshop.
>
> Any of us may be next to be treated to damnatio memoriae...watch out!
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> pridie Idus Martias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83728 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: FULL TEXT of EDICTUM CONSULARE as AMENDED
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Cato Petronio Dextero omnibusque in foro SPD
>
> First, yes, thank you, Petronius Dexter, for the correction in the Latin. I
> can always say that people often made fun of many ancient writers for their
> bad Latin grammar...
>
> This has never been done in Nova Roma's history before,
>
> ATS: With good reason.
>
>
> that I know of. Many of those who voted for the SCU are now saying either
> they *thought* it meant something else, or they *think* it means something
> else, or they *want* it to mean something else, or they didn't think it would
> be applied so harshly, etc., etc., etc.,
>
> ATS: Hardly surprising. I saw what lurked there, but others did not care
> to see...typhloi ta t¹wta ton te noun ta t¹ommat¹ eisin...(apologies to S.;
> this does not appear to scan, but seems grammatically correct).
>
>
> and to all these and all the citizens of the Respublica I say the following:
>
> Since it is in the full direct authority of the consuls to deal with any
> situations which arise under the terms of the SCU, why don't you, the People
> of the Respublica, tell me what you think we should do.
>
> ATS: Well, Cato, since you asked...how about ditching this edictum, and
> starting off on, so to speak, the right foot?
>
> When we find someone who has sworn an oath to protect and defend the
> Constitution of Nova Roma, her public institutions etc., and yet swears an
> oath to another entity in direct opposition to us - what would you like us to
> do?
>
> When someone claims that the Gods have abandoned us, that our citizens are
> being struck down by the same Gods for our wickedness, that the evil
> "monotheists" are running the Respublica and trying to destroy the religiones
> Romanae, that our Respublica is a festering haven of evil and corruption -
> what would you like us to do?
>
> When we deal with those who deliberately plotted to undermine the civil
> government of the Respublica, and who failed - what should we do?
>
> Howling for their blood once, now horrified by their treatment...I am not a
> mind-reader, nor is my colleague (that I know of), nor are either of the
> censors, and frankly I'm tired of trying to be one. So if removing them from
> the public spaces of the Respublica is inappropriate for someone like these
> types mentioned, against whom the SCU is directed, you tell me what you think
> should happen to them.
>
> ATS: Apart from the rhetoric, let us do what is right. That, dear Cato,
> is to send your new bosom pal the praetor Caesarian a petitio actionis
> charging Piscinus with laesa patriae or whatever. He will no doubt accept it.
> Have a trial, and see what happens. If Piscinus is convicted, it seems he
> would have to leave, but do not pretend that a trial has occurred when it has
> not, nor compel the censores to join in this lie. Give up this nonsense of
> damnatio memoriae. It makes us look ridiculous. In any case, the provision
> on nomenclature is almost certainly a moot point, since the gens Moravia is
> not ancient, but a Latinization of a modern name, Murray (if memory serves),
> and therefore is probably closed. Ergo no one could take this nomen anyway.
> How silly does it sound to prohibit someone from entering a closed gens just
> out of spite? How idiotic is it for Sabinus to be consul with Nemo (gee,
> Captain Nemo was a character in a children¹s show many years ago, and perhaps
> in a movie...)? How idiotic is it for participants in a religious ritual
> conducted by Piscinus to be with a celebrant whose face is blurred and whose
> name is given as Nemo? How idiotic is it for those attending a conventus with
> him to find Nemo in the picture with them? Di boni! Have you NO respect for
> history? We did not throw all of the bad things about US history into the
> trash and say that we had Nemo as president, or Nemo as vice president (Nixon
> and Agnew), or that groups of white-robed Nemos helped nonwhites to the next
> world after burning crosses near their homes (or gloss over said activities)
> or that Nemo imported people from Africa for unpaid work purposes, or that
> Nemo attempted to obliterate the culture of groups of red-skinned Native
> Nemos... Get real.
>
> This whole thing looks like the result of hatred and spite. It gives a
> terrible example to future magistrates who might think that you, C. Equitius
> Cato, have violated some provision or another and should be expelled. You
> just got a taste of that, but evidently it registered about as well as my
> corrections to your Latin: not at all. Who is next? There have been many
> here who had very fervent beliefs about something or other, several who appear
> to be mentally unbalanced, but paranoia mixed with hatred and spite are
> driving you and your buds now. Who is next?
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> Vale, et valete.
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83729 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica D. Junio Palladio Invicto quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , Robert
> Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ave,
>> >
>> > So it is both barbarious and Roman? LOL
>
> Ok, how about childish and silly? More apt? Keeping the guy out is fine,
> banning him forever is fine but this smacks like a cheesy attempt at imitating
> 1984.
>
> "We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war with Eastasia. We are
> allies with Eurasia!"
>
> New sheet handed to announcer. "We are at war with Eurasia! We have always
> been at war with Eurasia! We are allies with Eastasia!"
>
> You make the guy more important than he ever was by this act. Nemo, the former
> 432, once known as Piscinus. Notice how STUPID that makes NR sound? Pretty
> stupid. We always manage to top our previous attempts at that.
>
> ATS: We are doing a great job of this. No one may take the name Moravius
> Piscinus, which in any case would require entering a gens with a modern rather
> than an ancient name, which gens therefore is probably closed; all records in
> the censorial database must be erased...because of course the censors and
> censorial staff can see them, but no one else can...everyone in a picture with
> Moravius is accompanying Nemo (why not Unidentified citizen)? Sabinus was
> consul with Nemo (well, I¹ve heard of Julius and Caesar, and we are doing a
> credible imitation of that with certain parties...as has been the case all too
> often). Yikes. Mhketi paptaine porsion, as Pindaros said. {Oly. I}
>
> Vale,
>
> Palladius
>
> Vale et valete.
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83730 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica iterum Decio Junio Palladio Invicto quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Salve amice,
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , Gnaeus
> Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Caesar Praetor Lentulo sal.
>> >
>> > Actually if this edict is executed properly, we won't look any of those
>> things, because there won't be anything left to look at.
>> >
>> > So much drama over what happens in organizations the world over, when
>> someone disgraces themselves in the eyes of the organization, their trophies,
>> photographs, etc are removed from view and they are simply not mentioned
>> again. Honours are removed. Privilges revoked.
>> >
>> > Only in Nova Roma would this even be considered by someone an issue. Only
>> in NR would someone advocate for keeping such a person on full public view.
>
> Funny but even though Richard Nixon left office in disgrace, people still
> learn about him in school. He is still listed in history books as a former
> president of the United States.
>
> ATS: Shocking, isn¹t it? Gee, mention of him should have been
> obliterated. Who cares about history? <being ironic here>
>
> If you pick up a book about the history of Germany in the 20th century, you'll
> find much written about Adolf Hitler, chancellor of Germany. If you learn the
> history of Interpol you'll see the pictures and dates of service of their
> leaders in the 1930s, all SS generals and members of the Gestapo.
>
> Anyone trying to learn the history of NR for the past 3 or 4 years will run
> into references to "nemo" (I'll say again, notice how STUPID we sound even
> writing that?) which will mean nothing because there will be no background.
>
> ATS: Ridiculous. Even worse than the obliteration of rescinded laws from
> the Tabularium...but some were mentioned elsewhere...
>
>
> Who was this mysterious #432 people will ask? You make him into more than he
> was as people will seek out information. Who had this banned name? Will we
> have special banned files for research purposes only, to be released only
> under guard?
>
> I can't believe we're even discussing this without laughing. Ok, I take that
> back. I am laughing.
>
> ATS: It¹s hard to know whether to laugh or cry. This is SO ridiculous,
> and so sad at the same time.
>
> 'Nuff said.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Palladius
>
> Vale et valete bene.
>
>> >
>> > Optime vale.
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Mon, 3/14/11, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>> >
>>> > > From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...>
>>> > > Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>>> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> > > Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 12:44 PM
>>> > >
>>> > > Lentulus senatori Petronio sal.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > The idea in this consular edict is barbarious, but at best
>>> > > highly imperial and not republican at all. It makes us look
>>> > > vengeful, while Piscinus could not even achieve what he
>>> > > wanted, the government punishes him as if he killed dozens
>>> > > of Nova Roma members. With what we could punish a REAL
>>> > > murderer in NR? By deleting even our biological memory in
>>> > > our heads?
>>> > >
>> >
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83731 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Cato Iunio Palladio sal.
>
> OK, I take it you are suggesting that we drop the whole "nemo" bit and simply
> refer to him by his Roman name. That's a good place to start.
>
> ATS: Don¹t tell me that a bit of good sense has entered this discussion!
> Even Unidentified celebrant or Unidentified citizen would be better than Nemo.
>
> I'm absolutely serious when I posed the question: how would the People of our
> Respublica like the consuls to work this out?
>
> I don't mean that I'm going to immediately say "oh yeah that's a great idea"
> but at least I will give everything serious consideration.
>
> This is new, people, and I don't mind taking a few hits for it, but both my
> colleague and I are truly trying to figure out the best way to go about this.
> That is, in part, why I made the whole activity surrounding this SCU funnel
> back to my colleague and I
>
> ATS: Ahem: To my colleague and me, objective case as the object of the
> preposition to.
>
>
> and not let it just be thrown around by any magistrate at their own whim.
>
> ATS: Well, right now any magistrate could haul anyone he or she didn¹t
> like off to a similar fate, just as we had the new means of handling potential
> candidates from political camps opposite to those of the convening magistrate
> last year. When one writes something like this, it can be turned against one
> by someone else. This sounds too much like a whim on the part of certain
> individuals, one fueled by paranoia coupled with hatred and spite. Mind, I
> don¹t agree with a lot of those quoted statements by your target, but much of
> this goes way too far.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "deciusiunius" <bcatfd@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > Salve amice,
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>> Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Caesar Praetor Lentulo sal.
>>> > >
>>> > > Actually if this edict is executed properly, we won't look any of those
>>> things, because there won't be anything left to look at.
>>> > >
>>> > > So much drama over what happens in organizations the world over, when
>>> someone disgraces themselves in the eyes of the organization, their
>>> trophies, photographs, etc are removed from view and they are simply not
>>> mentioned again. Honours are removed. Privilges revoked.
>>> > >
>>> > > Only in Nova Roma would this even be considered by someone an issue.
>>> Only in NR would someone advocate for keeping such a person on full public
>>> view.
>> >
>> > Funny but even though Richard Nixon left office in disgrace, people still
>> learn about him in school. He is still listed in history books as a former
>> president of the United States.
>> >
>> >
>> > If you pick up a book about the history of Germany in the 20th century,
>> you'll find much written about Adolf Hitler, chancellor of Germany. If you
>> learn the history of Interpol you'll see the pictures and dates of service of
>> their leaders in the 1930s, all SS generals and members of the Gestapo.
>> >
>> > Anyone trying to learn the history of NR for the past 3 or 4 years will run
>> into references to "nemo" (I'll say again, notice how STUPID we sound even
>> writing that?) which will mean nothing because there will be no background.
>> Who was this mysterious #432 people will ask? You make him into more than he
>> was as people will seek out information. Who had this banned name? Will we
>> have special banned files for research purposes only, to be released only
>> under guard?
>> >
>> > I can't believe we're even discussing this without laughing. Ok, I take
>> that back. I am laughing.
>> >
>> > 'Nuff said.
>> >
>> > Vale bene,
>> >
>> >
>> > Palladius
>> >
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83732 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Ave, Caesar!

What a pervert distorsion of what I said, Julius Caesar!

My arguments against the damnatio memoriae are the same than those of Palladius: it hurts the interests of NR, while makes us pathetic, ridiculous and absurd.

Vale!
Lentulus


--- Mar 15/3/11, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> ha scritto:







 









Caesar Lentulo sal.



Ah yes now I see the problem, It isn't really about anything other than you get embarassed about explaining it.



Optime vale



--- On Mon, 3/14/11, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:



> From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...>

> Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected

> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

> Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 9:02 PM

>

> Cn. Lentulus Dec. Palladio principi senatús sal.

>

>

> >>>> You make the guy more important than he

> ever was by this act. Nemo, the

> former 432, once known as Piscinus. Notice how STUPID that

> makes NR

> sound? Pretty stupid. We always manage to top our previous

> attempts at

> that. <<<<<<

>

>

> Exactly. I have just recruited a possible citizen last week

> who is some sort of Roman expert, and when I mentioned the

> current Past Deletion and history alteration to him at our

> meeting yesterday, he looked quite strangely at me, and I

> felt incredibly embarrassed. He told me he expected

> something serious project on ancient Rome, and that he

> wasn't interested in such comedies like "Delete All Names of

> Nonperson No. 36272"...

>

> I was trying to convince him that not all NR is such, but I

> doubt he would come to our next meeting after this.

>

> We sound more and more like an RPG, and now with Stalinist

> and Orwellist colors - quite a historio-fantasy...

>

> My solution in applying the SCU in this case would be

> simply conducting a trial for Piscinus as any citizen must

> get a trial. If the trial, quite predictably, would condemn

> him, ban him. That's exactly enough, and anything beyond

> this looks utterly pretentious and irrealistic.

>

> Piscinus did not kill anyone, and the call for dictator

> project did not even succed, and it was not even him who

> would have be the dictator but Cn. Marinus Censorius, and

> from private conversation with Marinus I know that he was at

> odds with Piscinus in many things, and as dictator his

> project was different from what Piscinus had wanted.

>

> So Piscinus can be condemned for seduction to an

> appointment of dictator - but appointment of dictator can

> not be called coup. Piscinus certainly can be condemned for

> attacking NR since he went to the other organization this

> year, and he spoke against NR. But this is not an act worthy

> of damnatio memoriae, which is a punishment of those who

> hurt the current emperor, or of those who are mass murders.

>

>

>

> --- Mar 15/3/11, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>

> ha scritto:

>

> Da: deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>

> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected

> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

> Data: Martedì 15 marzo 2011, 03:31

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>  

>

>

>    

>      

>      

>      

>

>

>

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,

> Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:

>

> >

>

> > Ave,

>

> >

>

> > So it is both barbarious and Roman? LOL

>

>

>

> Ok, how about childish and silly? More apt? Keeping the guy

> out is fine, banning him forever is fine but this smacks

> like a cheesy attempt at imitating 1984.

>

>

>

> "We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war

> with Eastasia. We are allies with Eurasia!"

>

>

>

> New sheet handed to announcer. "We are at war with Eurasia!

> We have always been at war with Eurasia! We are allies with

> Eastasia!"

>

>

>

> You make the guy more important than he ever was by this

> act. Nemo, the former 432, once known as Piscinus. Notice

> how STUPID that makes NR sound? Pretty stupid. We always

> manage to top our previous attempts at that.

>

>

>

> Vale,

>

>

>

> Palladius

>

>

>

>

>

>    

>      

>

>    

>    

>

>

>

>

>

>

>  

>

>

>

>

>

>

>      

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>     Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83733 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED
C. Aemilius Crassus Catoni Consli omnibusque SPD,



I sincerely think we all need to cool down some degrees (Celsius,
Fahrenheit, Kelvin whatever suits each one taste) and start to look to this
with a calm head.



First of all the SCU states:

“1. No official of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma shall be at
the

same time a founder or an official of competing organizations which would

include activities or services in the creation, development, and/or working
of a

Republican Roman State. No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova
Roma

shall be allowed to use their her/his membership either to create, develop
or

promote such competing organizations, or to act negatively

towards Nova Roma, its citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization
and

actions, specifically to allow the creation, development or promotion of

competing organizations whose aim is the creation of a Roman Republican
State.



2. Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take every measure to prevent, avoid or

eliminate any one of the situations evoked in the article 1, including the

rights to refuse the admission of an applicant member, to remove a member of

her/his membership, to remove or deprive him/her, for a given time, of all
or a

part of her/his rights of member and/or of her/his rights, powers,
privileges

and honors

which (s)he may hold inside Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma,

including Article II.B of the Constitution of Nova Roma.”



I think the other points arenÂ’t need to this discussion.



There is no doubt that Piscinus falls under the Article 1 of the SCU DM,
among other things because his messages referred in the Consular Edictum.



So there is no doubt that the Consuls are empowered to take every measure to
prevent, avoid or eliminate any one of the situations evoked in Article 1.
The situations of Article 1 are (I know I am repeating myself but is only
for the sake of clarity):

“…No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma

shall be allowed to use their her/his membership either to create, develop
or

promote such competing organizations, or to act negatively

towards Nova Roma, its citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization
and

actions, specifically to allow the creation, development or promotion of

competing organizations whose aim is the creation of a Roman Republican
State.”



So the removal of citizenship and not be allowed to reapply to it are
measures to prevent, avoid or eliminate the above behaviors, no doubt here.



The removal of wiki pages and photos are more hard to fit in the prevent,
avoid or eliminate the behaviors of Article 1, but with the threaten to sue
on base of the Copyrights can justify that.



IÂ’m sorry Consuls but what I canÂ’t see is how to remove the name of Piscinus
of all our official records would do to prevent, avoid or eliminate the use
of his membership to create or act negatively to NR, its citizenry and so
on. If you can explain us how this measure would stop him to do that I would
have no problem but sincerely I canÂ’t see how. He can claim he was Consul
and Pontifex Maximus of NR and for our collective shame that is true either
if it is in our official records or not.



You all know I donÂ’t have the slightest respect for Piscinus and IÂ’m not
worried how he will feel with any action we would do, neither do I care for
whatever he will do outside of NR. We can feel he deserves every conviction
possible in the books but that is not what the SCU DM is about.



Maybe something is escaping me, and it can be due to the fact that I prefer
the Republican way to deal with who had tried harm the state, i.e. keep the
records and the memory of him not to praise but warn us all. We remove his
statues and name from the monuments (wiki pages authored by him and photos)
and start to tell our children this is what happens to who tries to attack
NR from the inside and outside. LetÂ’s edit his bio page with the facts, that
he tried to imposed a Dictator and even when the person publicly refuse he
tried to force the Comitia Curiata to empowered him. That he expelled from
the Comitia the Lictores that publicly refuse to obey his illegal act and
when he saw that he couldnÂ’t have his way he issued a command, without any
legal power to do it, to all leave the NR forums, steeled official lists and
their records of the Collegium Pontificum and Augurum, expelled from those
lists the Pontifices that didnÂ’t agree with him even when he had persecuted
and expelled a citizen for refusing to give him private lists. And since
then has being accusing all citizens of NR to be false cultures and using
his citizenship rights to defame NR and to try to make their citizens to
leave NR. Due to these acts the Consuls had no other option to remove his
citizenship under a SCU.



This way every new citizen when approached by him or his followers will have
the full facts to make any decision.



You have asked so I have said what I would do, but I have not the burden of
being Consul so if you can clarify how to replace his name to nemo in our
official records (aka wiki) would prevent, avoid and eliminate the use of
membership to harm NR than your acts are under SCU DM and my preferences are
exactly that personal preferences. Obviously I am not the one to whom you
need to clarify this but I thank you for the chance of speak my mind on the
subject.



Valete optime bene.







From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Cato
Sent: segunda-feira, 14 de Março de 2011 22:40
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: FULL TEXT of EDICUM CONSULAR as AMENDED





Cato Petronio Dextero omnibusque in foro SPD

First, yes, thank you, Petronius Dexter, for the correction in the Latin. I
can always say that people often made fun of many ancient writers for their
bad Latin grammar...

This has never been done in Nova Roma's history before, that I know of. Many
of those who voted for the SCU are now saying either they *thought* it meant
something else, or they *think* it means something else, or they *want* it
to mean something else, or they didn't think it would be applied so harshly,
etc., etc., etc., and to all these and all the citizens of the Respublica I
say the following:

Since it is in the full direct authority of the consuls to deal with any
situations which arise under the terms of the SCU, why don't you, the People
of the Respublica, tell me what you think we should do.

When we find someone who has sworn an oath to protect and defend the
Constitution of Nova Roma, her public institutions etc., and yet swears an
oath to another entity in direct opposition to us - what would you like us
to do?

When someone claims that the Gods have abandoned us, that our citizens are
being struck down by the same Gods for our wickedness, that the evil
"monotheists" are running the Respublica and trying to destroy the
religiones Romanae, that our Respublica is a festering haven of evil and
corruption - what would you like us to do?

When we deal with those who deliberately plotted to undermine the civil
government of the Respublica, and who failed - what should we do?

Howling for their blood once, now horrified by their treatment...I am not a
mind-reader, nor is my colleague (that I know of), nor are either of the
censors, and frankly I'm tired of trying to be one. So if removing them from
the public spaces of the Respublica is inappropriate for someone like these
types mentioned, against whom the SCU is directed, you tell me what you
think should happen to them.

Valete bene,

Cato





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83734 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>>> Therefore - since no one in the outwide world gives a damn <<<


That's the core of the problem, this mentality.

Many, many Roman oriented people of the outside word CARES. Hundreds and thousends of lurkers visit our website each day (our website's IT statistics reveile it). I know many citizens who lurked around here more than a year before joining. I myself had observed NR about a full year before I joined. We already give a bad impression, but at least until today we seemed somewhat genuine in what we do.  Normal people abhor from any community that is so vengeful, childish and absurd.

And what if the ouside word did not care? I care, Scholastoca cares, Palladius cares, Metellus cares, Sabinus cares, Albucius cares, Paulinus cares, Crassus cares,  Audens cares, Enodiaria cares, people you may not know, care. Nova Romans who voiced concern in private but not in public (at least so far) do care. If you say we should ignore the outside word, you can not say we should ignore our citizens who feel ashamed and worried because of such an absurd "damnatio memoriae". It hurts the citizens of Nova Roma themselves, and - while it makes Piscinus happy, since this is exactly he had wanted, a big theatrical show proscription against him so that he can point out to the nastiness and vengefulness of NR,  - it alienates those few peole who could manage to keep some enthusiasm and hope towards NR.

I think the government wants a working, community oriented, healthy vibrant NR. With such decisions, we get further and further from it, and we will find barely two people next year who would want to be consuls.

We eat ourselves.



--- Mar 15/3/11, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> ha scritto:

Da: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
Oggetto: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Martedì 15 marzo 2011, 07:55







 









Salve amice



And equally I haven't seen one argument that convinces me otherwise. As I did say in the Senate, there should be abolsutely no reward for his type of behaviour, there are his copyright claims, there is the focus his pages will attract, and bottom line his records can be text filed and out into the Senate list files.



No publicity. No record. No trace. someone said leave it up so we could learn something. You might have laughed at nemo, but I nearly split my sides on that one. Nova Roma learn anything from its past! Hilarious delusion.



Piscinus will milk his departure in his own way, whatever we do or don't. His collection of wormtongues are already hard at it elsewhere and actually have been well prior to this edict being established. Now granted he is preaching to the converted, all supping his brand of kool-aid, but the point is whatever we say etc. He will morph.



Therefore - since no one in the outwide world gives a damn, and since Piscinus will continue to spread his lies and twisted verson whatever we do or don't, then why should I look at his garbage on our site? So what do we gain? Not rewarding him by befouling our website with his details. That is for starters, but frankly imo well good enough.



Vale bene

Caesar



--- On Tue, 3/15/11, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> wrote:



> From: deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>

> Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected

> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

> Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 12:42 AM

> Salve amice,

>

>

>

> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,

> Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

> >

> > Salve amice

> >

> > Again, I don't have any problem removing his

> details from our website. None. Corporate websites don't

> display front and center the biographies of a former

> disgraced official.

>

> I do. How can it possibly benefit us? I haven't seen a

> single reason put forward yet how we benefit or why this is

> being done.

>

> Is Piscinus paying for this free advertisement? Gods if

> we're going to do him this kind of favor we might as well

> get money out of it. We're not getting any other benefit.

>

> Vale,

>

> Palladius

>

>

>

>

>

> ------------------------------------

>

> Yahoo! Groups Links

>

>

>     Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83735 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: IDIBUS MARTIIS
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est Idibus Martiis; hic dies nefastus publicus est.


"The happy feast of Anna Perenna is held on the Ides,
Not far from your banks, Tiber, far flowing river.
The people come and drink there, scattered on the grass,
And every man reclines there with his girl.
Some tolerate the open sky, a few pitch tents,
And some make leafy huts out of branches,
While others set reeds up, to form rigid pillars,
And hang their outspread robes from the reeds.
But they're warmed by sun and wine, and pray
For as many years as cups, as many as they drink.
There you'll find a man who quaffs Nestor's years,
A woman who'd age as the Sibyl, in her cups.
There they sing whatever they've learnt in the theatres,
Beating time to the words with ready hands,
And setting the bowl down, dance coarsely,
The trim girl leaping about with streaming hair.
Homecoming they stagger, a sight for vulgar eyes,
And the crowd meeting them call them 'blessed'.
I fell in with the procession lately (it seems to me worth
Saying): a tipsy old woman dragging a tipsy old man."
- Ovid, Fasti III

"Huius etiam prima die ignem novum Vestae aris accendebant, ut
incipiente anno cura denuo servandi novati ignis inciperet: eodem
quoque ingrediente mense tam in regia curiisque atque flaminum domibus
laureae veteres novis laureis mutabantur: eodem quoque mense et
publice et privatim ad Annam Perennam sacrificatum itur, ut annare
perennareque commode liceat." - Macrobius, Saturnalia 1.XII.6


Today is held in honor of Anna Perenna, the goddess of the new year.
The Romans gave various explanations to the origin or her name, "amnis
perennis" ("eternal stream"): she was a river nymph; her name was
derived from annis ("year"); she was a moon-goddess of the running
year; also, she was equated with Anna, the sister of Dido, who was
received in Latium by Aeneas, but drowned herself in a river. In the
class-struggle between the patricians and plebeians she chose the side
of the plebeians.

Macrobius (Saturnalia 1.12.6) related that offerings were made to her
"ut annare perannareque commode liccat" ("that the circle of the year
may be completed happily") and that people sacrificed to her both
publicly and privately. Ovid in his Fasti provides a vivid
description of the revelry and licentiousness of her outdoor festival
where tents were pitched or bowers built from branches, where people
asked that Anna bestow as many more years to them as they could drink
cups of wine at the festival.

Ovid then tells that Anna Perenna was the same Anna who appears in
Virgil's Aeneid as Dido's sister and that after Dido's death, Carthage
was attacked by the Numidians and Anna was forced to flee. Eventually
Anna ended up in ship which happened to be driven by a storm right to
Aeneas' settlement of Lavinium. Aeneas invited her to stay, but his
wife Lavinia became jealous. But Anna, warned in a dream by Dido's
spirit, escaped whatever Lavinia was planning by rushing off into the
night and falling into the river Numicus and drowning. Aeneas and his
folk were able to track Anna part way. Eventually Anna's form appeared
to them and Anna explained that she was now a river nymph hidden in
the "perennial stream" (amnis perennis) of Numicus and her name was
therefore now Anna Perenna. The people immediately celebrated with
outdoor revels. Ovid then notes that some equate Anna Perenna with the
Moon or with Themis or with Io or with Amaltheia, but he turns to what
he claims may be closer to the truth, that during the Plebeian revolt
the rebels ran short on food and an old woman of Bovillae named Anna
baked cakes and brought them to the rebels every morning. The
Plebeians later set up an image to her and worshipped her as a
goddess.

Next Ovid relates that soon after old Anna had become a goddess, the
god Mars attempted to get Anna to persuade Minerva to yield to him in
love. Anna at last pretends that Minerva has agreed and the wedding is
on. But when Mars' supposed new wife was brought into his chamber and
Mars removed the veil he found to his chagrin that it was not Minerva
but old Anna, which is why people tell coarse jokes and sing coarse
songs at Anna Perenna's festivities. Since the fesitval of Anna
Perenna is in the month of Mars, it is reasonable that the Mars and
Anna Perenna should be associated, at least in some rites at that
time, as cult partners.

Two places of worship of Anna Perenna are attested. One in Buscemi,
Sicily, where in 1899 some inscriptions to Anna and Apollo were found,
and in Rome, where a fountain devoted to Anna Perenna rites was
unearthened in 1999.


"Beware the ides of March." - William Shakespeare, "Julius Caesar"
(Soothsayer at I.ii)

"A certain seer warned Caesar to be on his guard against a great peril
on the day of the month of March which the Romans call the Ides; and
when the day had come and Caesar was on his way to the senate-house,
he greeted the seer with a jest and said: 'Well, the Ides of March are
come,' and the seer said to him softly: 'Ay, they are come, but they
are not gone.' Moreover, on the day before, when Marcus Lepidus was
entertaining him at supper, Caesar chanced to be signing letters, as
his custom was, while reclining at table, and the discourse turned
suddenly upon the question what sort of death was the best; before any
one could answer Caesar cried out: "That which is unexpected." After
this, while he was sleeping as usual by the side of his wife, all the
windows and doors of the chamber flew open at once, and Caesar,
confounded by the noise and the light of the moon shining down upon
him, noticed that Calpurnia was in a deep slumber, but was uttering
indistinct words and inarticulate groans in her sleep; for she
dreamed, as it proved, that she was holding her murdered husband in
her arms and bewailing him...

It was Casca who gave him the first blow with his dagger, in the neck,
not a mortal would, nor even a deep one, for which he was too much
confused, as was natural at the beginning of a deed of great daring;
so that Caesar turned about, grasped the knife, and held it fast. At
almost the same instant both cried out, the smitten man in Latin:
"Accursed Casca, what does thou?" and the smiter, in Greek, to his
brother: "Brother, help!"

So the affair began, and those who were not privy to the plot were
filled with consternation and horror at what was going on; they dared
not fly, nor go to Caesar's help, nay, nor even utter a word. But
those who had prepared themselves for the murder bared each of them
his dagger, and Caesar, hemmed in on all sides, whichever way he
turned confronting blows of weapons aimed at his face and eyes, driven
hither and thither like a wild beast, was entangled in the hands of
all; for all had to take part in the sacrifice and taste of the
slaughter. Therefore Brutus also gave him one blow in the groin. And
it is said by some writers that although Caesar defended himself
against the rest and darted this way and that and cried aloud, when he
saw that Brutus had drawn his dagger, he pulled his toga down over his
head and sank, either by chance or because pushed there by his
murderers, against the pedestal on which the statue of Pompey stood.
And the pedestal was drenched with his blood, so that one might have
thought that Pompey himself was presiding over this vengeance upon his
enemy, who now lay prostrate at his feet, quivering from a multitude
of wounds. For it is said that he received twenty-three; and many of
the conspirators were wounded by one another, as they struggled to
plant all those blows in one body." - Plutarch, Lives, "Caesar"
63.5-9, 66.7-14

"The Senate rose in respect for his position when they saw him
entering. Those who were to have part in the plot stood near him.
Right next to him went Tillius Cimber, whose brother had been exiled
by Caesar. Under pretext of a humble request on behalf of this
brother, Cimber approached and grasped the mantle of his toga, seeming
to want to make a more positive move with his hands upon Caesar.
Caesar wanted to get up and use his hands, but was prevented by Cimber
and became exceedingly annoyed. That was the moment for the men to
set to work. All quickly unsheathed their daggers and rushed at him.
First Servilius Casca struck him with the point of the blade on the
left shoulder a little above the collar-bone. He had been aiming for
that, but in the excitement he missed. Caesar rose to defend himself,
and in the uproar Casca shouted out in Greek to his brother. The
latter heard him and drove his sword into the ribs. After a moment,
Cassius made a slash at his face, and Decimus Brutus pierced him in
the side. While Cassius Longinus was trying to give him another blow
he missed and struck Marcus Brutus on the hand. Minucius also hit out
at Caesar and hit Rubrius in the thigh. They were just like men doing
battle against him. Under the mass of wounds, he fell at the foot of
Pompey's statue. Everyone wanted to seem to have had some part in the
murder, and there was not one of them who failed to strike his body as
it lay there, until, wounded thirty-five times, he breathed his last."
- Nicholas of Damascus, "The Assassination of Caesar"

Today is, of course, infamous now because in 44 B.C., Gaius Iulius
Caesar was murdered outside the Senate House under the statue of
Pompeius Magnus.

Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83736 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: CAVE IDUS MARTIAS!
C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> Hodiernus dies est Idibus Martiis; hic dies nefastus publicus est.

Idibus Martiis is an ablative of time. It means "on the Ides of March". You can use the ablative to give at what time something is done, for example "bis millesimo septingentesimo sexagesimo quarto anno Vrbis conditae" which means "on the year 2764/MMDCCLXIV aVc."

So in a letter, you have to use the ablative if you write your letter on the Ides of March.

But, when you speak about the day itself you have to use the nominative, for example in your sentence.

Hodiernus dies (est/sunt) Idus Martiae (Idus is always plural); hic dies nefastus publicus est.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Idibus Martiis P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83737 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Caesar Lentulo sal.

Yes...thousands! Hordes Lentule! All lurking around and noticing one name has been removed, a page here, a photo there! Calamity!

Normal? Ahh so as usual Lentulus produces his box of acme "I'm whiter than you" suds, and proclaims his usual moral superiority. Let's see - if he had have been convicted of macronational rape, kidnapping children, torture..would you still have him up there? I doubt it, or would your intellectual purity still triumph Lentule? Yeah right it would. Half of those clamoring against this would be demanding its removal.

So having probably established that it isn't a question of Lentulus being more "normal;" but just not having the same intolerance for "treason" - for that is the term used in NR's bylaws.

So it's not the principle is it? It's just the degree.

Ahh the old routine of "people are hurting" over this. Rubbish. You mean you're just wobbly and personally uncomfortable, but that isn't the same as the quivering heaps of people so wounded by this step that you conjure up <lol>.

As for the performance, we seeing as how you led most of the wailing and flailing and drew attention to this, if that is your concern, perhaps you should have zipped your mouth and done the task assigned to you as MA, but we already know that Lentulus picks and chooses his duty.

So - in summary - not hordes of shocked people out there monitoring the website who would notice this.

Not hordes inside NR - our paying active membership simply doesn't constitute a horde, probably not even a charter bus.

Optime vale
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83738 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Ave!

EXCUSE ME....but in case anyone remembers...Nova Roma has already revised
history before. If I recall correctly both ex citizen Lucia Maria Fimbria
and myself were both reprimanded by the Senate of Nova Roma. Both of those
reprimands were removed and essentially expunged (though of course mine
still occasionally got mentioned when Fishhead's faction (or clients or cult
members) would try to criticize me). So, what is being requested is
essentially the SAME THING....

Lentulus you sound so weepy...maybe we should get you a tissue?

Vale,

Sulla

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 3:45 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> >>> Therefore - since no one in the outwide world gives a damn <<<
>
> That's the core of the problem, this mentality.
>
> Many, many Roman oriented people of the outside word CARES. Hundreds and
> thousends of lurkers visit our website each day (our website's IT statistics
> reveile it). I know many citizens who lurked around here more than a year
> before joining. I myself had observed NR about a full year before I joined.
> We already give a bad impression, but at least until today we seemed
> somewhat genuine in what we do. Normal people abhor from any community that
> is so vengeful, childish and absurd.
>
> And what if the ouside word did not care? I care, Scholastoca cares,
> Palladius cares, Metellus cares, Sabinus cares, Albucius cares, Paulinus
> cares, Crassus cares, Audens cares, Enodiaria cares, people you may not
> know, care. Nova Romans who voiced concern in private but not in public (at
> least so far) do care. If you say we should ignore the outside word, you can
> not say we should ignore our citizens who feel ashamed and worried because
> of such an absurd "damnatio memoriae". It hurts the citizens of Nova Roma
> themselves, and - while it makes Piscinus happy, since this is exactly he
> had wanted, a big theatrical show proscription against him so that he can
> point out to the nastiness and vengefulness of NR, - it alienates those few
> peole who could manage to keep some enthusiasm and hope towards NR.
>
> I think the government wants a working, community oriented, healthy vibrant
> NR. With such decisions, we get further and further from it, and we will
> find barely two people next year who would want to be consuls.
>
> We eat ourselves.
>
> --- Mar 15/3/11, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> ha
> scritto:
>
> Da: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
> Oggetto: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Marted� 15 marzo 2011, 07:55
>
>
>
>
> Salve amice
>
> And equally I haven't seen one argument that convinces me otherwise. As I
> did say in the Senate, there should be abolsutely no reward for his type of
> behaviour, there are his copyright claims, there is the focus his pages will
> attract, and bottom line his records can be text filed and out into the
> Senate list files.
>
> No publicity. No record. No trace. someone said leave it up so we could
> learn something. You might have laughed at nemo, but I nearly split my sides
> on that one. Nova Roma learn anything from its past! Hilarious delusion.
>
> Piscinus will milk his departure in his own way, whatever we do or don't.
> His collection of wormtongues are already hard at it elsewhere and actually
> have been well prior to this edict being established. Now granted he is
> preaching to the converted, all supping his brand of kool-aid, but the point
> is whatever we say etc. He will morph.
>
> Therefore - since no one in the outwide world gives a damn, and since
> Piscinus will continue to spread his lies and twisted verson whatever we do
> or don't, then why should I look at his garbage on our site? So what do we
> gain? Not rewarding him by befouling our website with his details. That is
> for starters, but frankly imo well good enough.
>
> Vale bene
>
> Caesar
>
> --- On Tue, 3/15/11, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> wrote:
>
> > From: deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
>
> > Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>
> > Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 12:42 AM
>
> > Salve amice,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
>
> > Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Salve amice
>
> > >
>
> > > Again, I don't have any problem removing his
>
> > details from our website. None. Corporate websites don't
>
> > display front and center the biographies of a former
>
> > disgraced official.
>
> >
>
> > I do. How can it possibly benefit us? I haven't seen a
>
> > single reason put forward yet how we benefit or why this is
>
> > being done.
>
> >
>
> > Is Piscinus paying for this free advertisement? Gods if
>
> > we're going to do him this kind of favor we might as well
>
> > get money out of it. We're not getting any other benefit.
>
> >
>
> > Vale,
>
> >
>
> > Palladius
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ------------------------------------
>
> >
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83739 From: luciaiuliaaquila Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Gratias Novi Romani!
Salvete Omnes!

I want to express my deep gratitude to all have participated in the discussion of the Edict in the past few days.

The next Ludi shall have a Roman Parody!

Valete bene

Julia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83740 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: Gratias Novi Romani!
Salve Iulia,

You are most welcome.

Just in case my not so good English is making me miss something, you are being ironic, right?

Vale,
Crassus

No dia 15 de Mar de 2011, às 15:12, "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@...> escreveu:

> Salvete Omnes!
>
> I want to express my deep gratitude to all have participated in the discussion of the Edict in the past few days.
>
> The next Ludi shall have a Roman Parody!
>
> Valete bene
>
> Julia
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83741 From: gequitiuscato Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: CAVE IDUS MARTIAS!
Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

Thanks again, Dexter! But which is more correct: "hodiernus dies EST Idus Martiae" or "hodiernus dies SUNT Idus Martiae"?

And for the subject line, I can still use "Idibus Martiis" because I'm saying what happened *on* this day yes?

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
>
> > Hodiernus dies est Idibus Martiis; hic dies nefastus publicus est.
>
> Idibus Martiis is an ablative of time. It means "on the Ides of March". You can use the ablative to give at what time something is done, for example "bis millesimo septingentesimo sexagesimo quarto anno Vrbis conditae" which means "on the year 2764/MMDCCLXIV aVc."
>
> So in a letter, you have to use the ablative if you write your letter on the Ides of March.
>
> But, when you speak about the day itself you have to use the nominative, for example in your sentence.
>
> Hodiernus dies (est/sunt) Idus Martiae (Idus is always plural); hic dies nefastus publicus est.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> Idibus Martiis P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83742 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: For the Ludi
C. Equitius Cato consule omnibus in foro SPD

On behalf of the consuls and the Respublica as a whole, I would like to offer my deepest and most heartfelt thanks to the Aediles and their cohors, who have put together the delightful and entertaining ludi.

Aeternia, the vision of you standing at the Rostra with a bullhorn is one that I will cherish for a very long time :)

It was a wonderful reprieve during an often rather tense moment in our experience together, and I promise that *next* ludi I plan to write another parody; perhaps with a consul who can't speak Latin correctly!

Again, our thanks and praise to you for an excellent ludi!

Valete bene,

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83743 From: Cn. Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Caesar Lentulo sal.

Instead of sniffling and complaining about this, defying a lawful edict (until a kindly consul gave you some leeway), and generally having another emotional snit on various boards, you could have done this by now.

Are you sure the chap you were explaining it away to didn't find your behavior odd? Perchance did you suddenly tear up at the though of the damage to our world renouned reputation? Did you blindly trip over your own feet in a search for a hanky? Were you dry heaving with emotion, gagging for air and genrally in need of paramedic intervention in front of him, over the loss to history and posteritory? Was that why he moved away, glancing at you oddly?

It is simple. He doesn't want to be up there. We just made it formal in case he or someone later changes their minds.

Sulla is CFO. maybe you should put a requisition in for an especially large hanky to wrap yourself in when you have one of these emotional breakdowns.

Optime vale.


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> Ave, Caesar!
>
> What a pervert distorsion of what I said, Julius Caesar!
>
> My arguments against the damnatio memoriae are the same than those of Palladius: it hurts the interests of NR, while makes us pathetic, ridiculous and absurd.
>
> Vale!
> Lentulus
>
>
> --- Mar 15/3/11, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> ha scritto:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Caesar Lentulo sal.
>
>
>
> Ah yes now I see the problem, It isn't really about anything other than you get embarassed about explaining it.
>
>
>
> Optime vale
>
>
>
> --- On Mon, 3/14/11, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
>
>
> > From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...>
>
> > Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>
> > Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 9:02 PM
>
> >
>
> > Cn. Lentulus Dec. Palladio principi senatús sal.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > >>>> You make the guy more important than he
>
> > ever was by this act. Nemo, the
>
> > former 432, once known as Piscinus. Notice how STUPID that
>
> > makes NR
>
> > sound? Pretty stupid. We always manage to top our previous
>
> > attempts at
>
> > that. <<<<<<
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Exactly. I have just recruited a possible citizen last week
>
> > who is some sort of Roman expert, and when I mentioned the
>
> > current Past Deletion and history alteration to him at our
>
> > meeting yesterday, he looked quite strangely at me, and I
>
> > felt incredibly embarrassed. He told me he expected
>
> > something serious project on ancient Rome, and that he
>
> > wasn't interested in such comedies like "Delete All Names of
>
> > Nonperson No. 36272"...
>
> >
>
> > I was trying to convince him that not all NR is such, but I
>
> > doubt he would come to our next meeting after this.
>
> >
>
> > We sound more and more like an RPG, and now with Stalinist
>
> > and Orwellist colors - quite a historio-fantasy...
>
> >
>
> > My solution in applying the SCU in this case would be
>
> > simply conducting a trial for Piscinus as any citizen must
>
> > get a trial. If the trial, quite predictably, would condemn
>
> > him, ban him. That's exactly enough, and anything beyond
>
> > this looks utterly pretentious and irrealistic.
>
> >
>
> > Piscinus did not kill anyone, and the call for dictator
>
> > project did not even succed, and it was not even him who
>
> > would have be the dictator but Cn. Marinus Censorius, and
>
> > from private conversation with Marinus I know that he was at
>
> > odds with Piscinus in many things, and as dictator his
>
> > project was different from what Piscinus had wanted.
>
> >
>
> > So Piscinus can be condemned for seduction to an
>
> > appointment of dictator - but appointment of dictator can
>
> > not be called coup. Piscinus certainly can be condemned for
>
> > attacking NR since he went to the other organization this
>
> > year, and he spoke against NR. But this is not an act worthy
>
> > of damnatio memoriae, which is a punishment of those who
>
> > hurt the current emperor, or of those who are mass murders.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- Mar 15/3/11, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
>
> > ha scritto:
>
> >
>
> > Da: deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
>
> > Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>
> > A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>
> > Data: Martedì 15 marzo 2011, 03:31
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >  
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >  
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >    
>
> >      
>
> >      
>
> >      
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
>
> > Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > Ave,
>
> >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
> > > So it is both barbarious and Roman? LOL
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Ok, how about childish and silly? More apt? Keeping the guy
>
> > out is fine, banning him forever is fine but this smacks
>
> > like a cheesy attempt at imitating 1984.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > "We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war
>
> > with Eastasia. We are allies with Eurasia!"
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > New sheet handed to announcer. "We are at war with Eurasia!
>
> > We have always been at war with Eurasia! We are allies with
>
> > Eastasia!"
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > You make the guy more important than he ever was by this
>
> > act. Nemo, the former 432, once known as Piscinus. Notice
>
> > how STUPID that makes NR sound? Pretty stupid. We always
>
> > manage to top our previous attempts at that.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Vale,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > Palladius
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >    
>
> >      
>
> >
>
> >    
>
> >    
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >  
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >      
>
> >
>
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ------------------------------------
>
> >
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >     Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83744 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

>
Salve amice
>
> Again, I don't have any problem removing his details from our >website. None. Corporate websites don't display front and center >the biographies of a former disgraced official.

Corporations live in the real world, they wouldn't do what we are doing. They don't go through their official histories and edit out references to disgraced CEOs, removing their pictures and replacing their names with "Nemo," or "nobody." They would take the name and face off the front page of their website, remove his picture from the welcome foyer of a lobby but if they had an official history they wouldn't go through like a WW II censor blacking out the name, and edit his name out of minutes.

Vale,


Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83745 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Salve amice

One has to provide a frame of reference. So obviously some deletions from a webpage would occur.

Therefore since he is deleting his own articles....

Since his page presumably should go...

That leaves exactly how many instances? The issue of whether Sabinus gets to be officially consul with nemo? That's about it.

So in other words..probably not a lot.

Nothing earth shattering in my book.

Vale bene
Caesar

--- On Tue, 3/15/11, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> wrote:

> From: deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
> Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 12:05 PM
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> >
> Salve amice
> >
> > Again, I don't have any problem removing his
> details from our >website. None. Corporate websites
> don't display front and center >the biographies of a
> former disgraced official.
>
> Corporations live in the real world, they wouldn't do what
> we are doing. They don't go through their official histories
> and edit out references to disgraced CEOs, removing their
> pictures and replacing their names with "Nemo," or "nobody."
> They would take the name and face off the front page of
> their website, remove his picture from the welcome foyer of
> a lobby  but if they had an official history they
> wouldn't go through like a WW II censor blacking out the
> name, and edit his name out of minutes.
>
> Vale,
>
>
> Palladius
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83746 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
SALVE!

--- On Tue, 3/15/11, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:


That leaves exactly how many instances? The issue of whether Sabinus gets to be officially consul with nemo? That's about it.>>>
 
That is a date, the year 2008.
 
VALE,
Sabinus






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83747 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Ave!

Actually it's probably both. :) Or we could just call it in the Consulship
of Iulius and Sabinus? At least that has some historic connection - with
the same Gens no less! ;)

Vale,

Sulla

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 11:18 AM, iulius sabinus
<iulius_sabinus@...>wrote:

>
>
> SALVE!
>
>
> --- On Tue, 3/15/11, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
> wrote:
>
> That leaves exactly how many instances? The issue of whether Sabinus gets
> to be officially consul with nemo? That's about it.>>>
>
> That is a date, the year 2008.
>
> VALE,
> Sabinus
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83748 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Caesar Sabino sal

Well we could start a contest for choices for a "pen name" for the miserable ole curmudgeon: Selecting some of his letters from each of his names, it could be the consulship of

Cusram Avius Inus Rat and Titus Iulius Sabinus

Personally, in your shoes, I'd prefer Nemo.

Optime vale.


--- On Tue, 3/15/11, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:

> From: iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...>
> Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 12:18 PM
> SALVE!
>
> --- On Tue, 3/15/11, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
> wrote:
>
>
> That leaves exactly how many instances? The issue of
> whether Sabinus gets to be officially consul with nemo?
> That's about it.>>>
>  
> That is a date, the year 2008.
>  
> VALE,
> Sabinus
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83749 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
C. Petronius omnibus qui in foro spatiantur salutem,

> it could be the consulship of
> Cusram Avius Inus Rat and Titus Iulius Sabinus

This main list looks like a back alley...

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Idibus Martiis P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83750 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Ave!

LOL not even close. ;)

Vale,

Sulla

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 12:21 PM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>wrote:

>
>
> C. Petronius omnibus qui in foro spatiantur salutem,
>
>
> > it could be the consulship of
> > Cusram Avius Inus Rat and Titus Iulius Sabinus
>
> This main list looks like a back alley...
>
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> Idibus Martiis P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83751 From: Sabinus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
SALVE!

> Personally, in your shoes, I'd prefer Nemo.>>>

In the end, why not? Let's make a search box "Finding Nemo" on our main page with a "Help". Pressing "Help" the brown pelican friend of Nemo, appear and will advice. I don't remember well the pelican name...

VALE,
Sabinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83752 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: CAVE IDUS MARTIAS!
C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> Thanks again, Dexter!

It was a pleasure.

> But which is more correct: "hodiernus dies EST Idus Martiae" or "hodiernus dies SUNT Idus Martiae"?

Both are correct.

"est" even if Idus is plural is attested in this quote of Valerius Maximus:
"Praedixerat C. Caesari ut proximos XXX dies quasi fatales caueret, quorum ultimus erat Idus Martiae." Val. Max. (8,11,2)

Instead of "est" we have "erat" as instead of "is" we could have "was".

> And for the subject line, I can still use "Idibus Martiis" because I'm saying what happened *on* this day yes?

Yes, it is correct.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Idibus Martiis P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83753 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Ave!

It isn't like the concept of using NEMO (but then it would be Neo..almost a
good joke) is a new one. In the beginning of NR the Censors office used
NEMO to describe new citizens who were not yet assigned to gentes. We also
used it to identify gentes who had no members to keep the Gens open in the
excel database. So, this isn't an unpaved area we are exploring.

Vale,

Sulla

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 12:31 PM, Sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:

>
>
> SALVE!
>
>
> > Personally, in your shoes, I'd prefer Nemo.>>>
>
> In the end, why not? Let's make a search box "Finding Nemo" on our main
> page with a "Help". Pressing "Help" the brown pelican friend of Nemo, appear
> and will advice. I don't remember well the pelican name...
>
> VALE,
> Sabinus
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83754 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Salvete omnes!

I would like to speak my mind on the topic of the effective "damnatio
memoriae" pronounced upon the former citizen Piscinus, who will apparently
be henceforth referred to as "Nemo" in official records (I say *effective*
"damnatio memoriae because I realize that this is not exactly what has been
decreed - nevertheless, I shall refer to the edict against the former
citizen as "damnatio memoriae" throughout this speech for ease of
reference). I would like to say, for the record, that I believe that no
citizen (or former citizen) is more deserving of the most extreme penalties
than this man, who divided our Republic, profaned our religion by using it
as his weapon and his tool, and has proved again and again his desire to see
the liberty of our Republic replaced with a theocratic system in which only
cultores deorum are above suspicion. No one, I say, deserves it more.

Therefore, it may surprise some of you that I am against the "damnatio
memoriae" of this man. Depriving him of his citizenship - that is certainly
no less than he deserves. Yes, were Nova Roma a macronation with the full
weight and power deserving of the heir to ancient Rome, he might even have
been deprived of his life, hurled from the Tarpeian Rock as befits the worst
of traitors. Some might say that would be no less than he deserves (though I
would personally prefer that he have to live with the shame he has brought
upon himself). Yet there are two considerations that I believe should stand
against the use of "damnatio memoriae."

The first is that the "damnatio memoriae" is not in the best tradition
of our people - neither the Res Publica Romana Antiqua nor the budding mos
maiorum of Nova Roma. "Damnatio memoriae" tended to be a tool of the worst
of tyrants in the imperial period of Roma Antiqua, used to cover up their
crimes and misdeeds, such as Caracalla's removal of his murdered brother
Geta from the record. It was also used vengefully against tyrants, like
Sejanus and Domitian (and probably others I cannot immediately recall). In
either case, it generally represents the worst impulses and instincts of our
people, not the best. For the record - I do NOT call or consuls tyrants for
issuing *this* "damnatio memoriae" - I merely say that they should consider
the tradition of its (mis)use, and consider that Piscinus is lowly vermin
compared to the tyrants against whom "damnatio memoriae" was pronounced in
ancient times.

Secondly, I believe that Nova Roma needs to learn from history. It is
now an old and tired saying that those who do not remember the mistakes of
the past are condemned to repeat them. I doubt we have any danger of any
citizens of this generation forgetting the evils of Piscinus, but if our
Republic is to endure into the future - as I believe it must and will -
future generations need to be able to learn to avoid traitors like Piscinus.
Also, from the 20th century particularly, we have learned how easy it is for
horrors and atrocities to be forgotten and swept under the carpet of
history. I am NOT saying that Piscinus is anything like this in scale, but
"never again" and "never forget" have become mottoes of those determined to
remember atrocities in order to prevent their repetition (again, I am NOT
saying that Piscinus, vile as he is, is equivalent to the Holocaust or 9/11
or similar atrocities - I am just illustrating the principle of remembering
the past so that it cannot later be denied).

I am a rather humble citizen. A plebeian who is not a senator nor high
magistrate. I state my opposition to this measure as a citizen. I believe
that the consuls are within the bounds of our laws in taking this action. I
do not challenge that. I simply wish to publicly state my conscience. I
agree with my dear friend Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus that a trial or question
put before the Comitia would have been preferable to "damnatio memoriae,"
and that I this act makes it look as if we are afraid of Piscinus, and lends
weight to those few who still support the traitor. I need to speak my
conscience, even if I cannot change what is happening.

Thank you for your attention and consideration. May the gods continue
to favor Nova Roma!

>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83755 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Caninus Valeriano omnibusque in foro SPD

You have stated your concerns regarding the 'nemo' actions in the edict very
well, Valeriane. I can see how an attempt to completely erase all trace of this
former citizen can also serve to remove an important lesson from our history.
Perhaps the actions proposed are too great of a response to the actions of such
a small man. Perhaps important lessons would be lost if these actions are taken.
But for the most part, I believe the actions required by the edict fit this
particular case well. I share some of your concerns but I am not sure what other
actions the Consuls can take. A trial is not a good option as it simply provides
a public platform for grandstanding while wasting a lot of time and resources
for, what in the end, would be no good reason. A vote of the curia does not seem
to be practical at this time. So, if the Consuls were to consider taking a
different approach and avoid the 'nemo' actions then what should be done other
than simply stripping this individual of his citizenship? Should the actions
required in the edict be modified so this former citizen's name and album page
remain with an appropriate notation but all other traces, contributions, etc. be
removed from view in the Wiki? How can the Consuls avoid a loss of history while
also ensuring Nova Roma does not leave itself open to nuisance lawsuits
regarding intellectual property or other matters from this former citizen? While
the loss of citizenship would have been a huge punishment for most men in
ancient Rome, it does not seem to have any meaning to this individual, so is
simply stripping this individual of citizenship actually enough?


Vale, et valete


M. Pompeius Caninus
Canis Domum
America Boreoccidentalis





________________________________
From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...>
To: Nova-Roma <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, March 15, 2011 12:09:09 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")


Salvete omnes!

I would like to speak my mind on the topic of the effective "damnatio
memoriae" pronounced upon the former citizen Piscinus, who will apparently
be henceforth referred to as "Nemo" in official records (I say *effective*
"damnatio memoriae because I realize that this is not exactly what has been
decreed - nevertheless, I shall refer to the edict against the former
citizen as "damnatio memoriae" throughout this speech for ease of
reference). I would like to say, for the record, that I believe that no
citizen (or former citizen) is more deserving of the most extreme penalties
than this man, who divided our Republic, profaned our religion by using it
as his weapon and his tool, and has proved again and again his desire to see
the liberty of our Republic replaced with a theocratic system in which only
cultores deorum are above suspicion. No one, I say, deserves it more.

Therefore, it may surprise some of you that I am against the "damnatio
memoriae" of this man. Depriving him of his citizenship - that is certainly
no less than he deserves. Yes, were Nova Roma a macronation with the full
weight and power deserving of the heir to ancient Rome, he might even have
been deprived of his life, hurled from the Tarpeian Rock as befits the worst
of traitors. Some might say that would be no less than he deserves (though I
would personally prefer that he have to live with the shame he has brought
upon himself). Yet there are two considerations that I believe should stand
against the use of "damnatio memoriae."

The first is that the "damnatio memoriae" is not in the best tradition
of our people - neither the Res Publica Romana Antiqua nor the budding mos
maiorum of Nova Roma. "Damnatio memoriae" tended to be a tool of the worst
of tyrants in the imperial period of Roma Antiqua, used to cover up their
crimes and misdeeds, such as Caracalla's removal of his murdered brother
Geta from the record. It was also used vengefully against tyrants, like
Sejanus and Domitian (and probably others I cannot immediately recall). In
either case, it generally represents the worst impulses and instincts of our
people, not the best. For the record - I do NOT call or consuls tyrants for
issuing *this* "damnatio memoriae" - I merely say that they should consider
the tradition of its (mis)use, and consider that Piscinus is lowly vermin
compared to the tyrants against whom "damnatio memoriae" was pronounced in
ancient times.

Secondly, I believe that Nova Roma needs to learn from history. It is
now an old and tired saying that those who do not remember the mistakes of
the past are condemned to repeat them. I doubt we have any danger of any
citizens of this generation forgetting the evils of Piscinus, but if our
Republic is to endure into the future - as I believe it must and will -
future generations need to be able to learn to avoid traitors like Piscinus.
Also, from the 20th century particularly, we have learned how easy it is for
horrors and atrocities to be forgotten and swept under the carpet of
history. I am NOT saying that Piscinus is anything like this in scale, but
"never again" and "never forget" have become mottoes of those determined to
remember atrocities in order to prevent their repetition (again, I am NOT
saying that Piscinus, vile as he is, is equivalent to the Holocaust or 9/11
or similar atrocities - I am just illustrating the principle of remembering
the past so that it cannot later be denied).

I am a rather humble citizen. A plebeian who is not a senator nor high
magistrate. I state my opposition to this measure as a citizen. I believe
that the consuls are within the bounds of our laws in taking this action. I
do not challenge that. I simply wish to publicly state my conscience. I
agree with my dear friend Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus that a trial or question
put before the Comitia would have been preferable to "damnatio memoriae,"
and that I this act makes it look as if we are afraid of Piscinus, and lends
weight to those few who still support the traitor. I need to speak my
conscience, even if I cannot change what is happening.

Thank you for your attention and consideration. May the gods continue
to favor Nova Roma!

>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83756 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Caesar sal.

Or.. it could be said that by not doing this we are afraid of him. Depends what vantage point you start from.

I also don't recall NR actually learning by any past mistakes.

Optime valete


--- On Tue, 3/15/11, Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...> wrote:

> From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
> To: "Nova-Roma" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 2:09 PM
> Salvete omnes!
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83757 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Ave!

Maybe a good compromise would be removal of his citizenship/Album entry and
not replacing his name in the magistrates annals. But promulgating a law in
the Comitia once we can..to prevent John Reali from rejoining NR in
perpetuity?

Because in the end, this isnt about one single person affected by the SCU
and we need to move this along to other matters that NR needs to give proper
attention too.

Vale,

Sulla

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 2:00 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

>
>
> Caesar sal.
>
> Or.. it could be said that by not doing this we are afraid of him. Depends
> what vantage point you start from.
>
> I also don't recall NR actually learning by any past mistakes.
>
> Optime valete
>
>
> --- On Tue, 3/15/11, Gaius Tullius Valerianus <
> gaius.tullius.valerianus@...> wrote:
>
> > From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
> > To: "Nova-Roma" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 2:09 PM
> > Salvete omnes!
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83758 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
C. Petronius C. Tullio s.p.d.,

> hurled from the Tarpeian Rock as befits the worst
> of traitors.

You justify by this example that our ancestors preferred make know forever an infamous act in naming "Tarpeian Rock" the Capitolin rock under the guard of Tarpeia, who betrayed the Capitole Hill to the Sabines, betrayal never forgotten nor erase from the common memory.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Idibus Martiis P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83759 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Caesar sal.

You know for all this hair pulling by some and long appeals to history on the other (still chuckling over our collective hubris that we think we will achieve a foot note in history at the rate we are going), there are only 5 articles and 184 page matches.

I think I could polish this all off in an afternoon of solid work. A bunch of it can be shipped to the Senate files and the rest can be processed according to the nemo solution quite easily, or whatever name you want, or even just a blank space.

Optime valete

--- On Tue, 3/15/11, Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...> wrote:

> From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
> To: "Nova-Roma" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 2:09 PM
> Salvete omnes!
>
>      I would like to speak my mind on
> the topic of the effective "damnatio
> memoriae" pronounced upon the former citizen Piscinus, who
> will apparently
> be henceforth referred to as "Nemo" in official records (I
> say *effective*
> "damnatio memoriae because I realize that this is not
> exactly what has been
> decreed - nevertheless, I shall refer to the edict against
> the former
> citizen as "damnatio memoriae" throughout this speech for
> ease of
> reference). I would like to say, for the record, that I
> believe that no
> citizen (or former citizen) is more deserving of the most
> extreme penalties
> than this man, who divided our Republic, profaned our
> religion by using it
> as his weapon and his tool, and has proved again and again
> his desire to see
> the liberty of our Republic replaced with a theocratic
> system in which only
> cultores deorum are above suspicion. No one, I say,
> deserves it more.
>
>      Therefore, it may surprise some of
> you that I am against the "damnatio
> memoriae" of this man. Depriving him of his citizenship -
> that is certainly
> no less than he deserves. Yes, were Nova Roma a macronation
> with the full
> weight and power deserving of the heir to ancient Rome, he
> might even have
> been deprived of his life, hurled from the Tarpeian Rock as
> befits the worst
> of traitors. Some might say that would be no less than he
> deserves (though I
> would personally prefer that he have to live with the shame
> he has brought
> upon himself). Yet there are two considerations that I
> believe should stand
> against the use of "damnatio memoriae."
>
>      The first is that the "damnatio
> memoriae" is not in the best tradition
> of our people - neither the Res Publica Romana Antiqua nor
> the budding mos
> maiorum of Nova Roma. "Damnatio memoriae" tended to be a
> tool of the worst
> of tyrants in the imperial period of Roma Antiqua, used to
> cover up their
> crimes and misdeeds, such as Caracalla's removal of his
> murdered brother
> Geta from the record. It was also used vengefully against
> tyrants, like
> Sejanus and Domitian (and probably others I cannot
> immediately recall). In
> either case, it generally represents the worst impulses and
> instincts of our
> people, not the best. For the record - I do NOT call or
> consuls tyrants for
> issuing *this* "damnatio memoriae" - I merely say that they
> should consider
> the tradition of its (mis)use, and consider that Piscinus
> is lowly vermin
> compared to the tyrants against whom "damnatio memoriae"
> was pronounced in
> ancient times.
>
>      Secondly, I believe that Nova Roma
> needs to learn from history. It is
> now an old and tired saying that those who do not remember
> the mistakes of
> the past are condemned to repeat them. I doubt we have any
> danger of any
> citizens of this generation forgetting the evils of
> Piscinus, but if our
> Republic is to endure into the future - as I believe it
> must and will -
> future generations need to be able to learn to avoid
> traitors like Piscinus.
> Also, from the 20th century particularly, we have learned
> how easy it is for
> horrors and atrocities to be forgotten and swept under the
> carpet of
> history. I am NOT  saying that Piscinus is anything
> like this in scale, but
> "never again" and "never forget" have become mottoes of
> those determined to
> remember atrocities in order to prevent their repetition
> (again, I am NOT
> saying that Piscinus, vile as he is, is equivalent to the
> Holocaust or 9/11
> or similar atrocities - I am just illustrating the
> principle of remembering
> the past so that it cannot later be denied).
>
>      I am a rather humble citizen. A
> plebeian who is not a senator nor high
> magistrate. I state my opposition to this measure as a
> citizen. I believe
> that the consuls are within the bounds of our laws in
> taking this action. I
> do not challenge that. I simply wish to publicly state my
> conscience. I
> agree with my dear friend Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus that a
> trial or question
> put before the Comitia would have been preferable to
> "damnatio memoriae,"
> and that I this act makes it look as if we are afraid of
> Piscinus, and lends
> weight to those few who still support the traitor. I need
> to speak my
> conscience, even if I cannot change what is happening.
>
>      Thank you for your attention and
> consideration. May the gods continue
> to favor Nova Roma!
>
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83760 From: L. Livia Plauta Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Salvete,
that wasn't a pelican, it was a seagull! Yes please, go on with the circus.
Nova Roma has never been so entartaining so far ...

Valete,
Livia

SALVE!

> Personally, in your shoes, I'd prefer Nemo.>>>

In the end, why not? Let's make a search box "Finding Nemo" on our main page
with a "Help". Pressing "Help" the brown pelican friend of Nemo, appear and
will advice. I don't remember well the pelican name...

VALE,
Sabinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83761 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: ANNA PERENNA - honored in Pannonia today
Salvete, Quirites!

Today three Nova Romans of Pannonia met and honored Anna Perenna with drinking the usual wine, to follow the Ides of March tradition of the Romans, as Ovid describes, when Roman people asked that Anna bestow
as many more years to them as they could drink cups of wine at the
festival.

We darnk from miniature glasses, size of teaspoon, so we were quite tricky and we could drink dozens of cups of wine without getting drunk, not even the slightest.

It was good!

With what did you celebrate Anna Perenna today?





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83762 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Salvete, Romani!

As for the insults, and ad hominem attack rhetorics, I won't address them, as the people can judge and decide themselves.

As for the real, actual points offered by the various parties in this debate, I can not but repeat myself from this point.

My opinion is basically is the same as Palladius princeps senatus' and Valerianus tribunus' ones.

Now I wish a Happy Anna Perenna fest to all involved, and some good wine, and long life to all of you.

Valete!
LENTULUS














On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 3:45 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> >>> Therefore - since no one in the outwide world gives a damn <<<
>
> That's the core of the problem, this mentality.
>
> Many, many Roman oriented people of the outside word CARES. Hundreds and
> thousends of lurkers visit our website each day (our website's IT statistics
> reveile it). I know many citizens who lurked around here more than a year
> before joining. I myself had observed NR about a full year before I joined.
> We already give a bad impression, but at least until today we seemed
> somewhat genuine in what we do.  Normal people abhor from any community that
> is so vengeful, childish and absurd.
>
> And what if the ouside word did not care? I care, Scholastoca cares,
> Palladius cares, Metellus cares, Sabinus cares, Albucius cares, Paulinus
> cares, Crassus cares,  Audens cares, Enodiaria cares, people you may not
> know, care. Nova Romans who voiced concern in private but not in public (at
> least so far) do care. If you say we should ignore the outside word, you can
> not say we should ignore our citizens who feel ashamed and worried because
> of such an absurd "damnatio memoriae". It hurts the citizens of Nova Roma
> themselves, and - while it makes Piscinus happy, since this is exactly he
> had wanted, a big theatrical show proscription against him so that he can
> point out to the nastiness and vengefulness of NR,  - it alienates those few
> peole who could manage to keep some enthusiasm and hope towards NR.
>
> I think the government wants a working, community oriented, healthy vibrant
> NR. With such decisions, we get further and further from it, and we will
> find barely two people next year who would want to be consuls.
>
> We eat ourselves.
>
> --- Mar 15/3/11, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> ha
> scritto:
>
> Da: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
> Oggetto: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Martedì 15 marzo 2011, 07:55
>
>
>
>
> Salve amice
>
> And equally I haven't seen one argument that convinces me otherwise. As I
> did say in the Senate, there should be abolsutely no reward for his type of
> behaviour, there are his copyright claims, there is the focus his pages will
> attract, and bottom line his records can be text filed and out into the
> Senate list files.
>
> No publicity. No record. No trace. someone said leave it up so we could
> learn something. You might have laughed at nemo, but I nearly split my sides
> on that one. Nova Roma learn anything from its past! Hilarious delusion.
>
> Piscinus will milk his departure in his own way, whatever we do or don't.
> His collection of wormtongues are already hard at it elsewhere and actually
> have been well prior to this edict being established. Now granted he is
> preaching to the converted, all supping his brand of kool-aid, but the point
> is whatever we say etc. He will morph.
>
> Therefore - since no one in the outwide world gives a damn, and since
> Piscinus will continue to spread his lies and twisted verson whatever we do
> or don't, then why should I look at his garbage on our site? So what do we
> gain? Not rewarding him by befouling our website with his details. That is
> for starters, but frankly imo well good enough.
>
> Vale bene
>
> Caesar
>
> --- On Tue, 3/15/11, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> wrote:
>
> > From: deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
>
> > Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
>
> > Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 12:42 AM
>
> > Salve amice,
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
>
> > Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Salve amice
>
> > >
>
> > > Again, I don't have any problem removing his
>
> > details from our website. None. Corporate websites don't
>
> > display front and center the biographies of a former
>
> > disgraced official.
>
> >
>
> > I do. How can it possibly benefit us? I haven't seen a
>
> > single reason put forward yet how we benefit or why this is
>
> > being done.
>
> >
>
> > Is Piscinus paying for this free advertisement? Gods if
>
> > we're going to do him this kind of favor we might as well
>
> > get money out of it. We're not getting any other benefit.
>
> >
>
> > Vale,
>
> >
>
> > Palladius
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > ------------------------------------
>
> >
>
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >     Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83763 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2011-03-15
Subject: Re: For the Ludi
Aeternia C. Equitio Catoni S.P.D.


Thank you Consul, I'll be looking forward to your entry :o)

Vale bene,
Aeternia

On Tue, Mar 15, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

>
>
> C. Equitius Cato consule omnibus in foro SPD
>
> On behalf of the consuls and the Respublica as a whole, I would like to
> offer my deepest and most heartfelt thanks to the Aediles and their cohors,
> who have put together the delightful and entertaining ludi.
>
> Aeternia, the vision of you standing at the Rostra with a bullhorn is one
> that I will cherish for a very long time :)
>
> It was a wonderful reprieve during an often rather tense moment in our
> experience together, and I promise that *next* ludi I plan to write another
> parody; perhaps with a consul who can't speak Latin correctly!
>
> Again, our thanks and praise to you for an excellent ludi!
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83764 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Julio Caesari quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Caesar Lentulo sal.
>
> Instead of sniffling and complaining about this, defying a lawful edict (until
> a kindly consul gave you some leeway),
>
> ATS: The edictum itself gives some leeway. In any case, Lentulus knows
> something you apparently do not: not all laws are created equal, and not all
> need be obeyed. Many are completely ignored in the macro world, and many once
> deemed the very foundation of society are now regarded with a far more
> jaundiced eye.
>
>
> and generally having another emotional snit on various boards, you could have
> done this by now.
>
> ATS: Caesar, we already understand that you hate Lentulus...and probably
> hate me...and hate anybody who doesn¹t share your views on such matters. As I
> noted elsewhere, you are acting like a schoolyard bully here.
>
> Are you sure the chap you were explaining it away to didn't find your behavior
> odd?
>
> ATS: And who might that be?
>
> Perchance did you suddenly tear up at the though of the damage to our world
> renouned reputation?
>
> ATS: And that would be the one which makes many academics laugh at us,
> including the classicists who should be flocking here, right? Why try harder
> to deserve that ridicule?
>
>
> Did you blindly trip over your own feet in a search for a hanky? Were you dry
> heaving with emotion, gagging for air and genrally in need of paramedic
> intervention in front of him, over the loss to history and posteritory?
>
> ATS: Really, now, Caesar. Some of us don¹t think that bookburning and
> the destruction of historical records are good things. Most academics don¹t.
>
>
> Was that why he moved away, glancing at you oddly?
>
> It is simple. He doesn't want to be up there. We just made it formal in case
> he or someone later changes their minds.
>
> ATS: Who is this he? Piscinus? Well, if he doesn¹t want his articles on
> the wiki, fine. There are, however, other issues here.
>
> Sulla is CFO. maybe you should put a requisition in for an especially large
> hanky to wrap yourself in when you have one of these emotional breakdowns.
>
> ATS: And now we have to requisition everything through Sulla? Silver
> polish and rags, too?
>
> If Lentulus needs a hanky, I think he can get one for himself. Your
> problem, Caesar, is that he is completely unlike you, and you cannot
> understand him. Lentulus is a fine young man, highly intelligent, highly
> educated, and very dedicated to NR and its foundations. His personality is
> very different from yours, and probably his value system is as well. He
> doesn¹t feel that he has to go around whacking people with a billy club and
> handcuffing them to make his point. He doesn¹t have to run to the civil law,
> either; chances are he knows that it is often less a product of an attempt at
> legislating proper behavior than it is one intended to grease someone¹s palm
> or to prevent someone¹s palm from being degreased. Probably he knows that
> often, too, it is intended to exercise power where it should not be exercised.
> Likely he knows that sometimes the law results from spite. In this case, we
> have a law (read: edict and SCU) based on hatred and spite. That is not a
> proper basis for anything which must be obeyed, ever.
>
> To be specific and mention a few points: the nomenclature provision,
> section 7, assumes that the gens Moravia is open and others can take this
> name. Out of fear that someone might do so, Piscinus¹ nomen-cognomen
> combination has been forbidden. As I mentioned earlier, Moravia is not even
> listed on our nomenclature pages, and is assumed to be closed as it is not an
> ancient gens name.
>
> Records are to be expunged from the censorial database, but the censorial
> database is visible to no one but the censores, rogatores, and censorial
> scribae. Provincial governors can view the portion relating to their own
> provinces. The general population cannot see this. There is no compelling
> reason to forbid anyone from taking this name when the gens itself is closed,
> and there is no compelling reason why censorial records should be destroyed
> inasmuch as very few can even see them.
>
> There is also no compelling reason why we should adopt Stalinist tactics
> and banish someone without a trial... and then instruct the censores to lie
> that one has been held. Have the trial, and see what the outcome is. Honor
> our own laws, and allow provocatio if conviction ensues. You who complain
> about a dictatorship have imposed a worse form of government than any
> contemplated by others; likely this dictatorship you term a coup would have
> been far more benign than the present one and its deeds.
>
> If you don¹t want to listen to Lentulus and me, listen to your friends
> Palladius and Tullius Valerianus and Laenas. This edictum is nonsense; the
> SCU is largely nonsense, and both need to be redone. Better still, rescind
> the edictum.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> Valete.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "Cn.
> Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Ave, Caesar!
>> >
>> > What a pervert distorsion of what I said, Julius Caesar!
>> >
>> > My arguments against the damnatio memoriae are the same than those of
>> Palladius: it hurts the interests of NR, while makes us pathetic, ridiculous
>> and absurd.
>> >
>> > Vale!
>> > Lentulus
>> >
>> >
>> > --- Mar 15/3/11, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> ha scritto:
>> >
>> >
>
>> >
>> >
>> > Caesar Lentulo sal.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Ah yes now I see the problem, It isn't really about anything other than you
>> get embarassed about explaining it.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Optime vale
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --- On Mon, 3/14/11, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>> > > From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...>
>> >
>>> > > Subject: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>> >
>>> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>> >
>>> > > Date: Monday, March 14, 2011, 9:02 PM
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > Cn. Lentulus Dec. Palladio principi senatús sal.
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>>>>>> > > >>>> You make the guy more important than he
>> >
>>> > > ever was by this act. Nemo, the
>> >
>>> > > former 432, once known as Piscinus. Notice how STUPID that
>> >
>>> > > makes NR
>> >
>>> > > sound? Pretty stupid. We always manage to top our previous
>> >
>>> > > attempts at
>> >
>>> > > that. <<<<<<
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > Exactly. I have just recruited a possible citizen last week
>> >
>>> > > who is some sort of Roman expert, and when I mentioned the
>> >
>>> > > current Past Deletion and history alteration to him at our
>> >
>>> > > meeting yesterday, he looked quite strangely at me, and I
>> >
>>> > > felt incredibly embarrassed. He told me he expected
>> >
>>> > > something serious project on ancient Rome, and that he
>> >
>>> > > wasn't interested in such comedies like "Delete All Names of
>> >
>>> > > Nonperson No. 36272"...
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > I was trying to convince him that not all NR is such, but I
>> >
>>> > > doubt he would come to our next meeting after this.
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > We sound more and more like an RPG, and now with Stalinist
>> >
>>> > > and Orwellist colors - quite a historio-fantasy...
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > My solution in applying the SCU in this case would be
>> >
>>> > > simply conducting a trial for Piscinus as any citizen must
>> >
>>> > > get a trial. If the trial, quite predictably, would condemn
>> >
>>> > > him, ban him. That's exactly enough, and anything beyond
>> >
>>> > > this looks utterly pretentious and irrealistic.
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > Piscinus did not kill anyone, and the call for dictator
>> >
>>> > > project did not even succed, and it was not even him who
>> >
>>> > > would have be the dictator but Cn. Marinus Censorius, and
>> >
>>> > > from private conversation with Marinus I know that he was at
>> >
>>> > > odds with Piscinus in many things, and as dictator his
>> >
>>> > > project was different from what Piscinus had wanted.
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > So Piscinus can be condemned for seduction to an
>> >
>>> > > appointment of dictator - but appointment of dictator can
>> >
>>> > > not be called coup. Piscinus certainly can be condemned for
>> >
>>> > > attacking NR since he went to the other organization this
>> >
>>> > > year, and he spoke against NR. But this is not an act worthy
>> >
>>> > > of damnatio memoriae, which is a punishment of those who
>> >
>>> > > hurt the current emperor, or of those who are mass murders.
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > --- Mar 15/3/11, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
>> >
>>> > > ha scritto:
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > Da: deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
>> >
>>> > > Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>> >
>>> > > A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
>> >
>>> > > Data: Martedì 15 marzo 2011, 03:31
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>> >
>>> > > Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>>>> > > > Ave,
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>>> > > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>>> > > > So it is both barbarious and Roman? LOL
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > Ok, how about childish and silly? More apt? Keeping the guy
>> >
>>> > > out is fine, banning him forever is fine but this smacks
>> >
>>> > > like a cheesy attempt at imitating 1984.
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > "We are at war with Eastasia. We have always been at war
>> >
>>> > > with Eastasia. We are allies with Eurasia!"
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > New sheet handed to announcer. "We are at war with Eurasia!
>> >
>>> > > We have always been at war with Eurasia! We are allies with
>> >
>>> > > Eastasia!"
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > You make the guy more important than he ever was by this
>> >
>>> > > act. Nemo, the former 432, once known as Piscinus. Notice
>> >
>>> > > how STUPID that makes NR sound? Pretty stupid. We always
>> >
>>> > > manage to top our previous attempts at that.
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > Vale,
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > >
>> >
>>> > > Palladius
>> >



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83765 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: De edicto consulari vetando.
C. Petronius Cn. Lentulo et tribunis Plebis s.p.d.,

I am the first who said that this consuls' edictum looks like a damnatio memoriae.

It is true that Nova Roma laws do not mention nowhere the damnatio memoriae as a penalty, because my reference was not legal, but moral and based on the evidences of the past history.

Even if the damnatio memoriae is not statued in the Constitution nor in the laws of Nova Roma, deleting or erasing the pictures and the wiki pages of a former magistrate and any mention about him and more replacing his name by "nemo" is a true damnatio memoriae, if not by laws (de iure) unless by facts (de facto).

This edictum de facto unfortunately will create a legal precedent and it is not a good precedent. Our Senate did not vote any damnatio memoriae and voted on a SCU statuing about the dual membership not on a revenge against one individual.

The SCU has in its target any individual having the dual membership between two competing organizations, it was not addressed against one individual. I think this edictum is a bad and radical interpretation of the SCU. And tribunes, if Nova Roma already has, must veto in order that the SCU never gave such imperium to the consul and in order to protect the individuals against this serious precedent of a damnatio memoriae.

Never we acted on the past by this SCU, it was not a retroactive SCU, but on contrary we targetted the future and setted up clear rules. The edictum exceeds the frame of the SCU. We go from the dual membership to the erasing of any public Nova Roman mention of a member who is building a competing organization and not only for today but forever, in perpetuity.

That is not at all the spirit of the SCU and it is a serious bad precedent. For the our pride benefit, I recall to the tribunes that only the Senate was empowered to decree a damnatio memoriae and the consul, making it, is exceeding his imperium and harden the SCU's consequences.

If you, tribunes of the Plebs, do not make an intercessio against a such radicalization, you will be the witnesses and the silent accomplices in this precedent.

Now my opinion is definitely taken, as senator, I will refuse any NR SCU because as I said in the Senate about this one it was a rogatio/bill and not an SCU and because the NR magistrates looks like amateurs breaking their toys.

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XVII Kalendas Apriles P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83766 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Caesar Scholasticae sal.

Now now, there is no need to descend into your normal paranoia about people hating you. Of course I don't. What I do think about Lentulus is that he skips out of his duty. It is as simple as that, and he either does it by bleating or going missing. I also think you coddle him and make excuses for him.

Also the claim to a higher plain of existence being an academic doesn't work either. Both you and Lentulus have been, and are political, just as prepared to use a well crafted little insult or witty slice. You especially are well known for that.

I actually wonder if you have looked at what would be affected on the Wiki. This talk of the loss to posterity clearly tells me you actually haven't examined this closely, or maybe at all, looking at the "affected" pages. Hardly much there to stand out.

Bookburning? <lol> More drama? So much exageration. Between you and Lentulus, you could become a travelling troupe of dramatists. The Nova Roman Mummers starting Lastica and Lenny. Anyway, as to what will or will not be obeyed, well we will see, and as to what is ,and isn't nonsense about the SCU, the need etc. watch this space.

There are always developments.

Optime vale



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83767 From: QFabiusMaxmi@aol.com Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: De edicto consulari vetando.
In a message dated 3/15/2011 11:09:23 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
jfarnoud94@... writes:

It is true that Nova Roma laws do not mention nowhere the damnatio
memoriae as a penalty, because my reference was not legal, but moral and based on
the evidences of the past history.

Even if the damnatio memoriae is not statued in the Constitution nor in
the laws of Nova Roma, deleting or erasing the pictures and the wiki pages of
a former magistrate and any mention about him and more replacing his name
by "nemo" is a true damnatio memoriae, if not by laws (de iure) unless by
facts (de facto).

Senator. If I understand you correctly when you voted to give the
Consuls ultimate power to resolve the situation, you did not understand what you
were doing. Is that your claim?

This is why I do not like SCUs. I'd much rather the SC be crafted with
verbage that lists what the Consuls can and can not do. We saw the same
exact thing happen last year when Consul Memmius was given ultimate power to
hold elections due to the SCU, he drafted Senator Tullia to act on the
election committee. Senator Tullia refused to follow the edict claiming she was
incompetent when it came to numbers. Even though the Senate had declared
that Consul Memmius was to do all that was necessary to ensure elections.

You do not like how the result to HMP will go? Tuff titty as my old DI
would say. The vote was passed. The power given. You don't like it?
Don't vote yes on SCUs in the future.
Stop giving away ultimate power, then saying you didn't mean it.
Valete
QFM

Sent from my Verizon BlackBerry




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83768 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: De edicto consulari - censorial position
Salve sen. Petroni !

Here is for your information the censorial common position on the scu and its application edict :

1/ Does the scu give a carte blanche to the consuls ?

No. The scu's text is clear. The consuls « oversee » the application of the scu wherein every concerned magistrate acts. The situation would have been different if the Senate had just "invest(ed) the consuls with absolute powers to deal with" : such scu would have been issued in one sentence. The fact that the consuls proposed, under a writing previously worked with the praetors and the censors, clearly means that they preferred a "smoother" way, which was, among others, to guarantee a large voting consensus for the text, that a "raw" wording would not have obtained.

2/ Does the scu allow a damnatio memoriae ?

No. As you correctly pointed it, such damnatio, which is rather an imperial times measure, and thus a bit "suspect" for Republicans, is the Senate's competency, which did not include it in its scu.

3/ Must the consular edict be respected ?

As far as it respects the scu, naturally. Every part which would not, however commits the personal responsibility of the consuls and of the citizens who would apply it, knowing that this or that provision may be inconstitutional.

4/ May the Tribunes veto the consular edict ?

In my reading of the V.E of the Constitution, no.

5/ Must we ignore the consular edict ?

Naturally not. All its constitutional/legal provisions must be applied, for the edict, in addition of the usual imperium of the consul, is considered as not separable from the scu.

6/ What is the position of the censors ?

Both censors voted as senators the scu, as it is written (no more, no less).
They intend as censors to apply the constitutional and legal provisions of the consular edict, in their own frame of competency.

7/ What does it mean ?

The censors have finished most of their part of work, as far as they are concerend : M. Moravius has been declared removed as citizen. The mention of this removal has been inserted in our database, and the evidence of this removal sent to the consuls for due information of the Senate ("oversight" role in the framework of the scu).
The censors will immediately inform the consuls and the praetors if ever the removed civis wish to come back, and the appropriate measure will be taken then.

8/ May M. Moravius be expelled "for life" ?

In the absence of precise by-laws, the voted scu is the only legal base. This base does not allow such a measure. Each time a text restricts the rights of the citizens, it must be interpreted in the way which be in favor of such rights : this is a fundamental of Law.
In addition, if it ever did, we must remember that this scu will not last for ever, and that we must no be arrogant enough to refuse our followers to build their own position on such cases. As for every non-profit corporation or sovereign State, what has been done may be done, and the reverse.

9/ Have the censors removed any picture etc. of M. Moravius ?

No. In fact, the censors controlled no picture or other document proper to the database. The way our IT system was created, every picture linked to it is hosted beside, in general pages, who are not watched upon by the censors, but by the concerned other magistrates or, by default, by the webmaster (Lentulus) under the authority of the consuls.

9/ Have the censors inserted a "nemo" mention in M. Moravius' files ?

No. As the Senate did not vote a damnatio memoriae, M. Moravius pictures or name has no legal reason to be erased, and his censorial file will remain as such, like the files of those who left us, for a reason or another. They are a part of Nova Roma History, like Hannibal for our ancestors or Adolf Hitler for the previous generations.

10/ Is there a collaboration between consuls, praetors and censors ?

Naturally, it is a requirement of the scu and a material condition of its application.

11/ Why did some Moravian documents disappear ?

Just because either he or one of his friends deleted them from our web site, with no previous consultation. The erasure comes from the removed citizen.

12/ May anybody delete one document previously uploaded in our site ?

Except if (s)he has warned us at this time that such document was protected by a copyright and that, when withdrawing it, NR was deprived of right to use it, normally not. But fyi, the consuls are checking this legal question.

Vale Senator,


P. Memmius Albucius
censor


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius Cn. Lentulo et tribunis Plebis s.p.d.,
>
> I am the first who said that this consuls' edictum looks like a damnatio memoriae.
>
> It is true that Nova Roma laws do not mention nowhere the damnatio memoriae as a penalty, because my reference was not legal, but moral and based on the evidences of the past history.
(..)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83769 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: a.d. XVII Kal. Aprilis
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XVII Kalendas Aprilis; hic dies fastus aterque est.


"Tiberius's bodily powers were now leaving him, but not his skill in
dissembling. There was the same stern spirit; he had his words and
looks under strict control, and occasionally would try to hide his
weakness, evident as it was, by a forced politeness. After frequent
changes of place, he at last settled down on the promontory of
Misenum in a country-house once owned by Lucius Lucullus. There it
was noted, in this way, that he was drawing near his end. There was a
physician, distinguished in his profession, of the name of Charicles,
usually employed, not indeed to have the direction of the emperor's
varying health, but to put his advice at immediate disposal. This
man, as if he were leaving on business his own, clasped his hand,
with a show of homage, and touched his pulse. Tiberius noticed it.
Whether he was displeased and strove the more to hide his anger, is a
question; at any rate, he ordered the banquet to be renewed, and sat
at the table longer than usual, by way, apparently, of showing honour
to his departing friend. Charicles, however, assured Macro that his
breath was failing and that he would not last more than two days. All
was at once hurry; there were conferences among those on the spot and
despatches to the generals and armies. On the 15th of March, his
breath failing, he was believed to have expired, and Caius Caesar was
going forth with a numerous throng of congratulating followers to
take the first possession of the empire, when suddenly news came that
Tiberius was recovering his voice and sight, and calling for persons
to bring him food to revive him from his faintness. Then ensued a
universal panic, and while the rest fled hither and thither, every
one feigning grief or ignorance, Caius Caesar, in silent stupor,
passed from the highest hopes to the extremity of apprehension.
Macro, nothing daunted, ordered the old emperor to be smothered under
a huge heap of clothes, and all to quit the entrance-hall.

And so died Tiberius, in the seventy eighth year of his age. Nero was
his father, and he was on both sides descended from the Claudian
house, though his mother passed by adoption, first into the Livian,
then into the Julian family. From earliest infancy, perilous
vicissitudes were his lot. Himself an exile, he was the companion of
a proscribed father, and on being admitted as a stepson into the
house of Augustus, he had to struggle with many rivals, so long as
Marcellus and Agrippa and, subsequently, Caius and Lucius Caesar were
in their glory. Again his brother Drusus enjoyed in a greater degree
the affection of the citizens. But he was more than ever on dangerous
ground after his marriage with Julia, whether he tolerated or escaped
from his wife's profligacy. On his return from Rhodes he ruled the
emperor's now heirless house for twelve years, and the Roman world,
with absolute sway, for about twenty-three. His character too had its
distinct periods. It was a bright time in his life and reputation,
while under Augustus he was a private citizen or held high offices; a
time of reserve and crafty assumption of virtue, as long as
Germanicus and Drusus were alive. Again, while his mother lived, he
was a compound of good and evil; he was infamous for his cruelty,
though he veiled his debaucheries, while he loved or feared Sejanus.
Finally, he plunged into every wickedness and disgrace, when fear and
shame being cast off, he simply indulged his own inclinations." -
Tacitus, Annals VI


"Meanwhile, having read in the proceedings of the senate that some of
those under accusation, about whom he had written briefly, merely
stating that they had been named by an informer, had been discharged
without a hearing, he cried out in anger that he was held in
contempt, and resolved to return to Capreae at any cost, since he
would not risk any step except from his place of refuge. Detained,
however, by bad weather and the increasing violence of his illness,
he died a little later in the villa of Lucullus, in the seventy-
eighth year of his age and the twenty-third of his reign, on the
seventeenth day before the Kalends of April, in the consulship of
Gnaeus Acerronius Proculus and Gaius Pontius Nigrinus.

Some think that Gaius [Caligula] gave him a slow and wasting poison;
others that during convalescence from an attack of fever food was
refused him when he asked for it. Some say that a pillow was thrown
upon his face, when he came to and asked for a ring which had been
taken from him during a fainting fit. Seneca writes that conscious of
his approaching end, he took off the ring, as if to give it to
someone, but held fast to it for a time; then he put it back on his
finger, and clenching his left hand, lay for a long time motionless;
suddenly he called for his attendants, and on receiving no response,
got up; but his strength failed him and he fell dead near the couch."
- Seutonius, "Lives of the Twelve Caesars", Tiberius 73.1-2

After Augustus died in AD 14, Tiberius took control of the empire and
ruled until AD 37. A grim and unsociable military man, Tiberius was
rarely popular in Rome and spent much of the last decade of his life
on the remote Isle of Capri. For a time he ruled in absentia through
his lieutenant, Lucius Aelius Sejanus, prefect of the Praetorian
Guard. (He had Sejanus executed in AD 31, fearing that Sejanus was
plotting to overthrow him.) Tiberius married twice but had no
children of his own at the time of his death; he was succeeded by
Caligula.

"Now it came to pass in the ninth year of his reign, in the tenth
month, on the tenth day of the month, that Nebuchadnezzar king of
Babylon and all his army came against Jerusalem and encamped against
it; and they built a siege wall against it all around. 2 So the city
was besieged until the eleventh year of King Zedekiah. 3 By the ninth
day of the fourth month the famine had become so severe in the city
that there was no food for the people of the land. 4 Then the city
wall was broken through, and all the men of war fled at night by way
of the gate between two walls, which was by the king's garden, even
though the Chaldeans were still encamped all around against the city.
And the king went by way of the plain. 5 But the army of the Chaldeans
pursued the king, and they overtook him in the plains of Jericho. All
his army was scattered from him. 6 So they took the king and brought
him up to the king of Babylon at Riblah, and they pronounced judgment
on him. 7 Then they killed the sons of Zedekiah before his eyes, put
out the eyes of Zedekiah, bound him with bronze fetters, and took him
to Babylon. 8 And in the fifth month, on the seventh day of the month
(which was the nineteenth year of King Nebuchadnezzar king of
Babylon), Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard, a servant of the king
of Babylon, came to Jerusalem. 9 He burned the house of the LORD and
the king's house; all the houses of Jerusalem, that is, all the houses
of the great, he burned with fire. 10 And all the army of the
Chaldeans who were with the captain of the guard broke down the walls
of Jerusalem all around. 11 Then Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard
carried away captive the rest of the people who remained in the city
and the defectors who had deserted to the king of Babylon, with the
rest of the multitude. 12 But the captain of the guard left some of
the poor of the land as vinedressers and farmers. 13 The bronze
pillars that were in the house of the LORD, and the carts and the
bronze Sea that were in the house of the LORD, the Chaldeans broke in
pieces, and carried their bronze to Babylon. 14 They also took away
the pots, the shovels, the trimmers, the spoons, and all the bronze
utensils with which the priests ministered. 15 The firepans and the
basins, the things of solid gold and solid silver, the captain of the
guard took away. 16 The two pillars, one Sea, and the carts, which
Solomon had made for the house of the LORD, the bronze of all these
articles was beyond measure. 17 The height of one pillar was eighteen
cubits, and the capital on it was of bronze. The height of the capital
was three cubits, and the network and pomegranates all around the
capital were all of bronze. The second pillar was the same, with a
network. 18 And the captain of the guard took Seraiah the chief
priest, Zephaniah the second priest, and the three doorkeepers. 19 He
also took out of the city an officer who had charge of the men of war,
five men of the king's close associates who were found in the city,
the chief recruiting officer of the army, who mustered the people of
the land, and sixty men of the people of the land who were found in
the city. 20 So Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, took these and
brought them to the king of Babylon at Riblah. 21 Then the king of
Babylon struck them and put them to death at Riblah in the land of
Hamath. Thus Judah was carried away captive from its own land." - II
Kings 25:1-21

In 597 B.C., Jerusalem was captured by Nebuchadnezzar, the King of
Babylon.

Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83770 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: De edicto consulari - censorial position
Caesar sal.

1. The consuls are empowered to oversee the application of the SCU, which
allows them to use any and all means in short to solve the problem.

2. There is no such thing as damnatio memoriae under NR law, so the Senate
can'tr have perogative over something that doesn't exist. The Consuls have
oversight of the MA under normal SC conditions. They can set policy under
that authority for what does up and down on the Wiki. Framing it in the SCU
is extra weight to their existing oversight we all voted to them.

3. Since the SCU allows any and all measures then you must respect it to the
same degree, even if you don't like the measures.

4. Yes he can be expelled for life, both under the terms of the SCU and the
law. The SCU may die, but the edicts issued under it will NOT die, nor will
the conditions they created. Therefore he is expelled for life under the SCU
condition to take any and all measures to AVOID such Article 1 situations.
There is a future element to the SCU which allows for the prevention of such
incidents. Also since the SCU allows any and all actions, the trial process
was deemed to have occurred (yes the wording of the SCU and its
constitutional powers allow this) to extract from that the sentence of
exactio for life. So now, until the constitution is amended, there is a dual
barrier protecting the res publica from Censors/Consuls in the future who
would allow him (and others) back in.

As for the rest - no real comments. This has been gone over before.

Optime valete


-----Original Message-----
From: publiusalbucius
Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 5:47 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] De edicto consulari - censorial position

Salve sen. Petroni !

Here is for your information the censorial common position on the scu and
its application edict :
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83771 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Next SCU application
Ave!

With all this discussion on John Reali, I think we not to lose sight on
others in NR who are affected by the terms of the SCU. Consul, are you
working on the next individual(s) who are affected by the terms of the SCU?

Respectfully,

Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83772 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: De edicto consulari - censorial position
Salve amice,



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar" <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:


> 4. Yes he can be expelled for life, both under the terms of the SCU and the
> law. The SCU may die, but the edicts issued under it will NOT die, nor will
> the conditions they created.

That may be so but don't forget that SCU is still "subject to review by the Senate." Any action taken by the consuls must still be approved after the fact. They might as well get it right now rather than jeopardize the actions being overturned. There is still a check and balance in this process.


Vale,

Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83773 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Answer to the requests of Intercessio on the joint Consular Edictum
Ex officiis Tribunorum Plebis



The Tribuni Plebis Novae Romae have received two requests to veto the joint
Consular Edictum "Consular edictum acting under SCU on dual memberships -
Number I"



After analyzed the SCU, the Edictum in question and Nova Roma Constitution
and Leges we conclude:



1- There is no doubt the actions of former citizen Marcus Moravius Piscinus
Horatianus fall under the article 1 of the SCU DM and consequently the
Consuls have all the authority under the SCU DM to take actions.



2- The article 2 of the SCU DM states "Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take
every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate any one of the situations
evoked in the article 1, including.", without limiting the actions taken
under the SCU DM.



3- Since the Edictum Consular respects Article 1 of the SCU DM and it is not
in clear and obvious contradiction of Article 2 the Tribuni, under our
constitution, can't issue an Intercessio on all or part of the Consular
Edictum. The actions under any SCU can only be review by the Senate itself.



Tiberius Galerius Paulinus

Quintus Servilius Priscus

Vibia Rutilia Enodiaria

Gaius Aemilius Crassus

a.d. XVII Kal. Mar.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83774 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> Caesar sal.
>
> You know for all this hair pulling by some and long appeals to history on the other (still chuckling over our collective hubris that we think we will achieve a foot note in history at the rate we are going), there are only 5 articles and 184 page matches.
>
> I think I could polish this all off in an afternoon of solid work. >A bunch of it can be shipped to the Senate files and the rest can be >processed according to the nemo solution quite easily, or whatever >name you want, or even just a blank space.

You could but you shouldn't. Wrong is wrong. This is wrong. Call me naive but we are turning into what we fought against.

Palladius



>
> Optime valete
>
> --- On Tue, 3/15/11, Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...> wrote:
>
> > From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...>
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
> > To: "Nova-Roma" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 2:09 PM
> > Salvete omnes!
> >
> >      I would like to speak my mind on
> > the topic of the effective "damnatio
> > memoriae" pronounced upon the former citizen Piscinus, who
> > will apparently
> > be henceforth referred to as "Nemo" in official records (I
> > say *effective*
> > "damnatio memoriae because I realize that this is not
> > exactly what has been
> > decreed - nevertheless, I shall refer to the edict against
> > the former
> > citizen as "damnatio memoriae" throughout this speech for
> > ease of
> > reference). I would like to say, for the record, that I
> > believe that no
> > citizen (or former citizen) is more deserving of the most
> > extreme penalties
> > than this man, who divided our Republic, profaned our
> > religion by using it
> > as his weapon and his tool, and has proved again and again
> > his desire to see
> > the liberty of our Republic replaced with a theocratic
> > system in which only
> > cultores deorum are above suspicion. No one, I say,
> > deserves it more.
> >
> >      Therefore, it may surprise some of
> > you that I am against the "damnatio
> > memoriae" of this man. Depriving him of his citizenship -
> > that is certainly
> > no less than he deserves. Yes, were Nova Roma a macronation
> > with the full
> > weight and power deserving of the heir to ancient Rome, he
> > might even have
> > been deprived of his life, hurled from the Tarpeian Rock as
> > befits the worst
> > of traitors. Some might say that would be no less than he
> > deserves (though I
> > would personally prefer that he have to live with the shame
> > he has brought
> > upon himself). Yet there are two considerations that I
> > believe should stand
> > against the use of "damnatio memoriae."
> >
> >      The first is that the "damnatio
> > memoriae" is not in the best tradition
> > of our people - neither the Res Publica Romana Antiqua nor
> > the budding mos
> > maiorum of Nova Roma. "Damnatio memoriae" tended to be a
> > tool of the worst
> > of tyrants in the imperial period of Roma Antiqua, used to
> > cover up their
> > crimes and misdeeds, such as Caracalla's removal of his
> > murdered brother
> > Geta from the record. It was also used vengefully against
> > tyrants, like
> > Sejanus and Domitian (and probably others I cannot
> > immediately recall). In
> > either case, it generally represents the worst impulses and
> > instincts of our
> > people, not the best. For the record - I do NOT call or
> > consuls tyrants for
> > issuing *this* "damnatio memoriae" - I merely say that they
> > should consider
> > the tradition of its (mis)use, and consider that Piscinus
> > is lowly vermin
> > compared to the tyrants against whom "damnatio memoriae"
> > was pronounced in
> > ancient times.
> >
> >      Secondly, I believe that Nova Roma
> > needs to learn from history. It is
> > now an old and tired saying that those who do not remember
> > the mistakes of
> > the past are condemned to repeat them. I doubt we have any
> > danger of any
> > citizens of this generation forgetting the evils of
> > Piscinus, but if our
> > Republic is to endure into the future - as I believe it
> > must and will -
> > future generations need to be able to learn to avoid
> > traitors like Piscinus.
> > Also, from the 20th century particularly, we have learned
> > how easy it is for
> > horrors and atrocities to be forgotten and swept under the
> > carpet of
> > history. I am NOT  saying that Piscinus is anything
> > like this in scale, but
> > "never again" and "never forget" have become mottoes of
> > those determined to
> > remember atrocities in order to prevent their repetition
> > (again, I am NOT
> > saying that Piscinus, vile as he is, is equivalent to the
> > Holocaust or 9/11
> > or similar atrocities - I am just illustrating the
> > principle of remembering
> > the past so that it cannot later be denied).
> >
> >      I am a rather humble citizen. A
> > plebeian who is not a senator nor high
> > magistrate. I state my opposition to this measure as a
> > citizen. I believe
> > that the consuls are within the bounds of our laws in
> > taking this action. I
> > do not challenge that. I simply wish to publicly state my
> > conscience. I
> > agree with my dear friend Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus that a
> > trial or question
> > put before the Comitia would have been preferable to
> > "damnatio memoriae,"
> > and that I this act makes it look as if we are afraid of
> > Piscinus, and lends
> > weight to those few who still support the traitor. I need
> > to speak my
> > conscience, even if I cannot change what is happening.
> >
> >      Thank you for your attention and
> > consideration. May the gods continue
> > to favor Nova Roma!
> >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >     Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> >
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83775 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Ave!

Except for the fact that for all his "intelligence" by getting one upped by
Metellus....he really wasn't that smart. Just look at the final year
Piscinus was in wars with Metellus, Cato/myself, Albucius, Caesar. Not the
sign of an intelligent man having to fight on 4 fronts at the same time.
You would have thought he would have taken a lesson from the Princess Bride
to not get involved in a land war in Asia..but hey...Piscinus had that
Napoleon complex thinking he could take on the world and well...we all know
the results.

But you're right I have already sent an email to the Consuls and Caesar
saying we need to compromise on this...I hate the man probably more than
anyone else in NR; and I would surely have no problem pissing on his grave
and pass out candies to all my friends the day he dies. That aside - we all
have to put aside our feelings and put NR first.

Removing his citizenship - we all agree on. - He is gone.

Removing his articles from the Wiki - We all agree on - He is gone - heck
Livia removed many of them already.

Removing his name from the magistrates/priests page - there needs to be some
consensus and agreement. Personally I would like to remove every freaking
trace of him. But instead we either use an abbreviation - with no link.
Then he will still be listed but not listed.

Removing photos of him - I would like to get rid of them but it would also
mean getting rid of others. Just archive them and don't put them on
display.

It's the second half of March and we MUST move on to other matters. This
evening I will be publishing the second revision of the Dues/Tax Structure
for the senate. We need to deal with Governor issues. There are more
pressing matters that need the attention.

In the end (thanks to President Obama and his infamous quote) we won -
Piscinus and crew are no longer in Nova Roma. Now let all of us reach a
compromise in this matter and move on to other matters.

Vale,

Sulla


On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 10:24 AM, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> wrote:

>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Caesar sal.
> >
> > You know for all this hair pulling by some and long appeals to history on
> the other (still chuckling over our collective hubris that we think we will
> achieve a foot note in history at the rate we are going), there are only 5
> articles and 184 page matches.
> >
> > I think I could polish this all off in an afternoon of solid work. >A
> bunch of it can be shipped to the Senate files and the rest can be
> >processed according to the nemo solution quite easily, or whatever >name
> you want, or even just a blank space.
>
> You could but you shouldn't. Wrong is wrong. This is wrong. Call me naive
> but we are turning into what we fought against.
>
> Palladius
>
> >
> > Optime valete
> >
> > --- On Tue, 3/15/11, Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > > From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...>
>
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
> > > To: "Nova-Roma" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 2:09 PM
> > > Salvete omnes!
> > >
> > > I would like to speak my mind on
> > > the topic of the effective "damnatio
> > > memoriae" pronounced upon the former citizen Piscinus, who
> > > will apparently
> > > be henceforth referred to as "Nemo" in official records (I
> > > say *effective*
> > > "damnatio memoriae because I realize that this is not
> > > exactly what has been
> > > decreed - nevertheless, I shall refer to the edict against
> > > the former
> > > citizen as "damnatio memoriae" throughout this speech for
> > > ease of
> > > reference). I would like to say, for the record, that I
> > > believe that no
> > > citizen (or former citizen) is more deserving of the most
> > > extreme penalties
> > > than this man, who divided our Republic, profaned our
> > > religion by using it
> > > as his weapon and his tool, and has proved again and again
> > > his desire to see
> > > the liberty of our Republic replaced with a theocratic
> > > system in which only
> > > cultores deorum are above suspicion. No one, I say,
> > > deserves it more.
> > >
> > > Therefore, it may surprise some of
> > > you that I am against the "damnatio
> > > memoriae" of this man. Depriving him of his citizenship -
> > > that is certainly
> > > no less than he deserves. Yes, were Nova Roma a macronation
> > > with the full
> > > weight and power deserving of the heir to ancient Rome, he
> > > might even have
> > > been deprived of his life, hurled from the Tarpeian Rock as
> > > befits the worst
> > > of traitors. Some might say that would be no less than he
> > > deserves (though I
> > > would personally prefer that he have to live with the shame
> > > he has brought
> > > upon himself). Yet there are two considerations that I
> > > believe should stand
> > > against the use of "damnatio memoriae."
> > >
> > > The first is that the "damnatio
> > > memoriae" is not in the best tradition
> > > of our people - neither the Res Publica Romana Antiqua nor
> > > the budding mos
> > > maiorum of Nova Roma. "Damnatio memoriae" tended to be a
> > > tool of the worst
> > > of tyrants in the imperial period of Roma Antiqua, used to
> > > cover up their
> > > crimes and misdeeds, such as Caracalla's removal of his
> > > murdered brother
> > > Geta from the record. It was also used vengefully against
> > > tyrants, like
> > > Sejanus and Domitian (and probably others I cannot
> > > immediately recall). In
> > > either case, it generally represents the worst impulses and
> > > instincts of our
> > > people, not the best. For the record - I do NOT call or
> > > consuls tyrants for
> > > issuing *this* "damnatio memoriae" - I merely say that they
> > > should consider
> > > the tradition of its (mis)use, and consider that Piscinus
> > > is lowly vermin
> > > compared to the tyrants against whom "damnatio memoriae"
> > > was pronounced in
> > > ancient times.
> > >
> > > Secondly, I believe that Nova Roma
> > > needs to learn from history. It is
> > > now an old and tired saying that those who do not remember
> > > the mistakes of
> > > the past are condemned to repeat them. I doubt we have any
> > > danger of any
> > > citizens of this generation forgetting the evils of
> > > Piscinus, but if our
> > > Republic is to endure into the future - as I believe it
> > > must and will -
> > > future generations need to be able to learn to avoid
> > > traitors like Piscinus.
> > > Also, from the 20th century particularly, we have learned
> > > how easy it is for
> > > horrors and atrocities to be forgotten and swept under the
> > > carpet of
> > > history. I am NOT saying that Piscinus is anything
> > > like this in scale, but
> > > "never again" and "never forget" have become mottoes of
> > > those determined to
> > > remember atrocities in order to prevent their repetition
> > > (again, I am NOT
> > > saying that Piscinus, vile as he is, is equivalent to the
> > > Holocaust or 9/11
> > > or similar atrocities - I am just illustrating the
> > > principle of remembering
> > > the past so that it cannot later be denied).
> > >
> > > I am a rather humble citizen. A
> > > plebeian who is not a senator nor high
> > > magistrate. I state my opposition to this measure as a
> > > citizen. I believe
> > > that the consuls are within the bounds of our laws in
> > > taking this action. I
> > > do not challenge that. I simply wish to publicly state my
> > > conscience. I
> > > agree with my dear friend Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus that a
> > > trial or question
> > > put before the Comitia would have been preferable to
> > > "damnatio memoriae,"
> > > and that I this act makes it look as if we are afraid of
> > > Piscinus, and lends
> > > weight to those few who still support the traitor. I need
> > > to speak my
> > > conscience, even if I cannot change what is happening.
> > >
> > > Thank you for your attention and
> > > consideration. May the gods continue
> > > to favor Nova Roma!
> > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > > Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83776 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: De edicto consulari - censorial position
Salve amice

Well since the method of review isn't specified (what does review mean? Another constitutional phrase with no legal or practical force) and since a consular edictum becomes part of the legal code as soon as it is issued and ... so forth.

I understand you want NR to be seen to be the usual open handed NR it has been, but maybe the res publica has been sucker punched once too often, and maybe it is time to change the level of response.

We all have our lines in the sand. Mine has been reached. You may not be at yours yet.

Vale bene
Caesar

--- On Wed, 3/16/11, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...> wrote:

> From: deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: De edicto consulari - censorial position
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, March 16, 2011, 11:17 AM
> Salve amice,
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,
> "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar" <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
>
> > 4. Yes he can be expelled for life, both under the
> terms of the SCU and the
> > law. The SCU may die, but the edicts issued under it
> will NOT die, nor will
> > the conditions they created.
>
> That may be so but don't forget that SCU is still "subject
> to review by the Senate." Any action taken by the consuls
> must still be approved after the fact. They might as well
> get it right now rather than jeopardize the actions being
> overturned. There is still a check and balance in this
> process.
>
>
> Vale,
>
> Palladius
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83777 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
Ave!

I forgot to say..we also need to remove the damnatio memoriae from the
edict.

Vale,

Sulla

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 10:41 AM, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
> wrote:

> Ave!
>
> Except for the fact that for all his "intelligence" by getting one upped by
> Metellus....he really wasn't that smart. Just look at the final year
> Piscinus was in wars with Metellus, Cato/myself, Albucius, Caesar. Not the
> sign of an intelligent man having to fight on 4 fronts at the same time.
> You would have thought he would have taken a lesson from the Princess Bride
> to not get involved in a land war in Asia..but hey...Piscinus had that
> Napoleon complex thinking he could take on the world and well...we all know
> the results.
>
> But you're right I have already sent an email to the Consuls and Caesar
> saying we need to compromise on this...I hate the man probably more than
> anyone else in NR; and I would surely have no problem pissing on his grave
> and pass out candies to all my friends the day he dies. That aside - we all
> have to put aside our feelings and put NR first.
>
> Removing his citizenship - we all agree on. - He is gone.
>
> Removing his articles from the Wiki - We all agree on - He is gone - heck
> Livia removed many of them already.
>
> Removing his name from the magistrates/priests page - there needs to be
> some consensus and agreement. Personally I would like to remove every
> freaking trace of him. But instead we either use an abbreviation - with no
> link. Then he will still be listed but not listed.
>
> Removing photos of him - I would like to get rid of them but it would also
> mean getting rid of others. Just archive them and don't put them on
> display.
>
> It's the second half of March and we MUST move on to other matters. This
> evening I will be publishing the second revision of the Dues/Tax Structure
> for the senate. We need to deal with Governor issues. There are more
> pressing matters that need the attention.
>
> In the end (thanks to President Obama and his infamous quote) we won -
> Piscinus and crew are no longer in Nova Roma. Now let all of us reach a
> compromise in this matter and move on to other matters.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 10:24 AM, deciusiunius <bcatfd@...>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Caesar sal.
>> >
>> > You know for all this hair pulling by some and long appeals to history
>> on the other (still chuckling over our collective hubris that we think we
>> will achieve a foot note in history at the rate we are going), there are
>> only 5 articles and 184 page matches.
>> >
>> > I think I could polish this all off in an afternoon of solid work. >A
>> bunch of it can be shipped to the Senate files and the rest can be
>> >processed according to the nemo solution quite easily, or whatever >name
>> you want, or even just a blank space.
>>
>> You could but you shouldn't. Wrong is wrong. This is wrong. Call me naive
>> but we are turning into what we fought against.
>>
>> Palladius
>>
>> >
>> > Optime valete
>> >
>> > --- On Tue, 3/15/11, Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@...>
>>
>> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] Regarding former citizen Piscinus (or "Nemo")
>> > > To: "Nova-Roma" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
>> > > Date: Tuesday, March 15, 2011, 2:09 PM
>> > > Salvete omnes!
>> > >
>> > > I would like to speak my mind on
>> > > the topic of the effective "damnatio
>> > > memoriae" pronounced upon the former citizen Piscinus, who
>> > > will apparently
>> > > be henceforth referred to as "Nemo" in official records (I
>> > > say *effective*
>> > > "damnatio memoriae because I realize that this is not
>> > > exactly what has been
>> > > decreed - nevertheless, I shall refer to the edict against
>> > > the former
>> > > citizen as "damnatio memoriae" throughout this speech for
>> > > ease of
>> > > reference). I would like to say, for the record, that I
>> > > believe that no
>> > > citizen (or former citizen) is more deserving of the most
>> > > extreme penalties
>> > > than this man, who divided our Republic, profaned our
>> > > religion by using it
>> > > as his weapon and his tool, and has proved again and again
>> > > his desire to see
>> > > the liberty of our Republic replaced with a theocratic
>> > > system in which only
>> > > cultores deorum are above suspicion. No one, I say,
>> > > deserves it more.
>> > >
>> > > Therefore, it may surprise some of
>> > > you that I am against the "damnatio
>> > > memoriae" of this man. Depriving him of his citizenship -
>> > > that is certainly
>> > > no less than he deserves. Yes, were Nova Roma a macronation
>> > > with the full
>> > > weight and power deserving of the heir to ancient Rome, he
>> > > might even have
>> > > been deprived of his life, hurled from the Tarpeian Rock as
>> > > befits the worst
>> > > of traitors. Some might say that would be no less than he
>> > > deserves (though I
>> > > would personally prefer that he have to live with the shame
>> > > he has brought
>> > > upon himself). Yet there are two considerations that I
>> > > believe should stand
>> > > against the use of "damnatio memoriae."
>> > >
>> > > The first is that the "damnatio
>> > > memoriae" is not in the best tradition
>> > > of our people - neither the Res Publica Romana Antiqua nor
>> > > the budding mos
>> > > maiorum of Nova Roma. "Damnatio memoriae" tended to be a
>> > > tool of the worst
>> > > of tyrants in the imperial period of Roma Antiqua, used to
>> > > cover up their
>> > > crimes and misdeeds, such as Caracalla's removal of his
>> > > murdered brother
>> > > Geta from the record. It was also used vengefully against
>> > > tyrants, like
>> > > Sejanus and Domitian (and probably others I cannot
>> > > immediately recall). In
>> > > either case, it generally represents the worst impulses and
>> > > instincts of our
>> > > people, not the best. For the record - I do NOT call or
>> > > consuls tyrants for
>> > > issuing *this* "damnatio memoriae" - I merely say that they
>> > > should consider
>> > > the tradition of its (mis)use, and consider that Piscinus
>> > > is lowly vermin
>> > > compared to the tyrants against whom "damnatio memoriae"
>> > > was pronounced in
>> > > ancient times.
>> > >
>> > > Secondly, I believe that Nova Roma
>> > > needs to learn from history. It is
>> > > now an old and tired saying that those who do not remember
>> > > the mistakes of
>> > > the past are condemned to repeat them. I doubt we have any
>> > > danger of any
>> > > citizens of this generation forgetting the evils of
>> > > Piscinus, but if our
>> > > Republic is to endure into the future - as I believe it
>> > > must and will -
>> > > future generations need to be able to learn to avoid
>> > > traitors like Piscinus.
>> > > Also, from the 20th century particularly, we have learned
>> > > how easy it is for
>> > > horrors and atrocities to be forgotten and swept under the
>> > > carpet of
>> > > history. I am NOT saying that Piscinus is anything
>> > > like this in scale, but
>> > > "never again" and "never forget" have become mottoes of
>> > > those determined to
>> > > remember atrocities in order to prevent their repetition
>> > > (again, I am NOT
>> > > saying that Piscinus, vile as he is, is equivalent to the
>> > > Holocaust or 9/11
>> > > or similar atrocities - I am just illustrating the
>> > > principle of remembering
>> > > the past so that it cannot later be denied).
>> > >
>> > > I am a rather humble citizen. A
>> > > plebeian who is not a senator nor high
>> > > magistrate. I state my opposition to this measure as a
>> > > citizen. I believe
>> > > that the consuls are within the bounds of our laws in
>> > > taking this action. I
>> > > do not challenge that. I simply wish to publicly state my
>> > > conscience. I
>> > > agree with my dear friend Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus that a
>> > > trial or question
>> > > put before the Comitia would have been preferable to
>> > > "damnatio memoriae,"
>> > > and that I this act makes it look as if we are afraid of
>> > > Piscinus, and lends
>> > > weight to those few who still support the traitor. I need
>> > > to speak my
>> > > conscience, even if I cannot change what is happening.
>> > >
>> > > Thank you for your attention and
>> > > consideration. May the gods continue
>> > > to favor Nova Roma!
>> > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > ------------------------------------
>> > >
>> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83778 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Gratias Novi Romani!
Salve amica,

In Nova Roma it is always difficult to tell parody from reality. :-)

Vale bene,

Palladius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Omnes!
>
> I want to express my deep gratitude to all have participated in the discussion of the Edict in the past few days.
>
> The next Ludi shall have a Roman Parody!
>
> Valete bene
>
> Julia
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83779 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
>
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Julio Caesari quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> Caesar Scholasticae sal.
>
> Now now, there is no need to descend into your normal paranoia about people
> hating you.
>
>
> ATS: QUID???!!!! WHAT paranoia? Terribly sorry to disappoint you and
> friends, Caesar, but I don¹t suffer from paranoia, normal or otherwise.
> Perhaps, as the song goes, everybody loves somebody sometime, but we cannot
> discount the possibility of the reverse: everybody hates somebody sometime.
> You are showing marked signs of hating Lentulus, if not me.
>
>
> Of course I don't. What I do think about Lentulus is that he skips out of
> his duty. It is as simple as that, and he either does it by bleating or going
> missing.
>
> ATS: Going missing may have to do with net connections and little items
> of greater importance, such as having to take exams...or administer and
> correct them. Illness may also play a role. What you call bleating (do you
> think he is a sheep or a goat?) is likely statement of facts.
>
>
> I also think you coddle him and make excuses for him.
>
> ATS: I don¹t coddle him, at least not in the sense you seem to mean. He
> is perfectly capable of stating his own reasons, which you call excuses.
>
> Also the claim to a higher plain of existence being an academic doesn't
> work either. Both you and Lentulus have been, and are political, just as
> prepared to use a well crafted little insult or witty slice. You especially
> are well known for that.
>
> ATS: Academics may indulge in politics. The late senator Daniel Patrick
> Moynihan did, and so have others.
>
> I actually wonder if you have looked at what would be affected on the Wiki.
> This talk of the loss to posterity clearly tells me you actually haven't
> examined this closely, or maybe at all, looking at the "affected" pages.
> Hardly much there to stand out.
>
> Bookburning? <lol> More drama?
>
> ATS: No drama, but you sure are heading to the Fahrenheit 451 pyre. Your
> pal Sulla has even asked who is next.
>
> So much exageration.
>
> ATS: Exaggeration? When a vindictive group of citizens (apparently those
> in the consular cohors) wants all mention of a major religious official and
> former high magistrate removed from our sites, wants all his pictures removed
> or altered, wants any possible echo of his name forbidden to future citizens
> (although that was already done long ago by virtue of the fact that his gens
> is ahistoric, and closed)...and this is exaggeration? Goodness, what would
> you deem non-exaggeration? If I say Alaska has a tropical climate, now, yes
> that is an exaggeration from our perspective, but if one compares it with that
> of Mars or Jupiter or Saturn, the Alaskan climate might be considered quite
> balmy.
>
>
> Between you and Lentulus, you could become a travelling troupe of dramatists.
>
> ATS: I don¹t think so, though he is pretty good at RR rituals. I have
> zero acting talent.
>
>
> The Nova Roman Mummers starting Lastica and Lenny. Anyway, as to what will or
> will not be obeyed, well we will see, and as to what is ,and isn't
> nonsense about the SCU, the need etc. watch this space.
>
> ATS: And now it seems that even Sulla has called for the removal of the
> damnatio memoriae section...and who wrote that one? Cato?
>
> Difficult concept: laws which are amoral [nefas, in RR terms] need not be
> obeyed. My ancestors fought against some illegal laws, and many others have
> done so in many times and places around the world. Too many have perished
> fighting for what was right, but their goals were reached.
>
> There are always developments.
>
> ATS: Yes, in NR we can always count on the electronic equivalent of
> Hockey Night in Canada. I don¹t know WHAT you lads will do when there is no
> one left in NR who opposes your viewpoints. There won¹t be anyone to fight,
> and for you pugnacious sorts, all the fun will have gone out of membership
> here.
>
> Optime vale
>
> Vale, et valete.
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83780 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Caesar Scholasticae sal.

First of all by the time all the yapping here is over, most of his contributions will have been deleted by his friends anyway. A fair chunk of it has gone already.

The Consuls can remove or not remove what they wish. I stand by their edict. This is not the time for wobbling. How they enforce it is up to them.

As to the future use of the SCU - stay tuned.

Optime valete


--- On Wed, 3/16/11, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:

> From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
> Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, March 16, 2011, 4:03 PM
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >    A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Julio Caesari
> quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> > Caesar Scholasticae sal.
> >
> > Now now, there is no need to descend into your normal
> paranoia about people
> > hating you.
> >
> >
> >     ATS:  QUID???!!!! 
> WHAT paranoia?  Terribly sorry to disappoint you and
> > friends, Caesar, but I don¹t suffer from paranoia,
> normal or otherwise.
> > Perhaps, as the song goes, everybody loves somebody
> sometime, but we cannot
> > discount the possibility of the reverse: 
> everybody hates somebody sometime.
> > You are showing marked signs of hating Lentulus, if
> not me.
> >
> >
> > Of course I don't. What I do think about Lentulus
> is that he skips out of
> > his duty. It is as simple as that, and he either does
> it by bleating or going
> > missing.
> >
> >     ATS:  Going missing may
> have to do with net connections and little items
> > of greater importance, such as having to take
> exams...or administer and
> > correct them.  Illness may also play a
> role.  What you call bleating (do you
> > think he is a sheep or a goat?) is likely statement of
> facts.
> >
> >
> > I also think you coddle him and make excuses for him.
> >
> >     ATS:  I don¹t coddle
> him, at least not in the sense you seem to mean.  He
> > is perfectly capable of stating his own reasons, which
> you call excuses.
> >
> > Also the claim to a higher plain of existence being an
> academic doesn't
> > work either. Both you and Lentulus have been, and are
> political, just as
> > prepared to use a well crafted little insult or witty
> slice. You especially
> > are well known for that.
> >
> >     ATS:  Academics may
> indulge in politics.  The late senator Daniel Patrick
> > Moynihan did, and so have others.
> >
> > I actually wonder if you have looked at what would be
> affected on the Wiki.
> > This talk of the loss to posterity clearly tells me
> you actually haven't
> > examined this closely, or maybe at all, looking at the
> "affected" pages.
> > Hardly much there to stand out.
> >
> > Bookburning?  <lol> More drama?
> >
> >     ATS:  No drama, but you
> sure are heading to the Fahrenheit 451 pyre.  Your
> > pal Sulla has even asked who is next.
> >
> > So much exageration.
> >
> >     ATS:  Exaggeration? 
> When a vindictive group of citizens (apparently those
> > in the consular cohors) wants all mention of a major
> religious official and
> > former high magistrate removed from our sites, wants
> all his pictures removed
> > or altered, wants any possible echo of his name
> forbidden to future citizens
> > (although that was already done long ago by virtue of
> the fact that his gens
> > is ahistoric, and closed)...and this is
> exaggeration?  Goodness, what would
> > you deem non-exaggeration?  If I say Alaska has a
> tropical climate, now, yes
> > that is an exaggeration from our perspective, but if
> one compares it with that
> > of Mars or Jupiter or Saturn, the Alaskan climate
> might be considered quite
> > balmy. 
> >
> >
> > Between you and Lentulus, you could become a
> travelling troupe of dramatists.
> >
> >     ATS:  I don¹t think so,
> though he is pretty good at RR rituals.  I have
> > zero acting talent.
> >
> >
> > The Nova Roman Mummers starting Lastica and Lenny.
> Anyway, as to what will or
> > will not be obeyed, well we will see, and as to what
> is ,and isn't
> > nonsense about the SCU, the need etc. watch this
> space.
> >
> >     ATS:  And now it seems
> that even Sulla has called for the removal of the
> > damnatio memoriae section...and who wrote that
> one?  Cato?
> >
> >     Difficult concept:  laws
> which are amoral [nefas, in RR terms] need not be
> > obeyed.  My ancestors fought against some illegal
> laws, and many others have
> > done so in many times and places around the
> world.  Too many have perished
> > fighting for what was right, but their goals were
> reached.
> >
> > There are always developments.
> >
> >     ATS:  Yes, in NR we can
> always count on the electronic equivalent of
> > Hockey Night in Canada.  I don¹t know WHAT you
> lads will do when there is no
> > one left in NR who opposes your viewpoints. 
> There won¹t be anyone to fight,
> > and for you pugnacious sorts, all the fun will have
> gone out of membership
> > here. 
> >
> > Optime vale
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>     Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83781 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: R: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Ave,

You're god damned right I asked who's next in terms of the application of
the SCU. Because there are a number of people who are office holders in
both organizations - or at least it certainly seems that way. This is
PRECISELY why the senate voted for the SCU! So, yeah if I don't ask who's
next on the review stand, someone else in the senate should be asking that
question. Since the SCU was not passed specifically for Fishhead. It was
promulgated because there were a number of people affected. So, of course I
asked who's next! *You don't like it...you failed to carry the Senate being
the sole no vote. *

Vale,

Sulla

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:03 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
> wrote:

>
>
> >
> >
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Julio Caesari quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
> >
> > Caesar Scholasticae sal.
> >
> > Now now, there is no need to descend into your normal paranoia about
> people
> > hating you.
> >
> >
> > ATS: QUID???!!!! WHAT paranoia? Terribly sorry to disappoint you and
> > friends, Caesar, but I don�t suffer from paranoia, normal or otherwise.
> > Perhaps, as the song goes, everybody loves somebody sometime, but we
> cannot
> > discount the possibility of the reverse: everybody hates somebody
> sometime.
> > You are showing marked signs of hating Lentulus, if not me.
>
> >
> >
> > Of course I don't. What I do think about Lentulus is that he skips
> out of
> > his duty. It is as simple as that, and he either does it by bleating or
> going
> > missing.
> >
> > ATS: Going missing may have to do with net connections and little items
> > of greater importance, such as having to take exams...or administer and
> > correct them. Illness may also play a role. What you call bleating (do
> you
> > think he is a sheep or a goat?) is likely statement of facts.
>
> >
> >
> > I also think you coddle him and make excuses for him.
> >
> > ATS: I don�t coddle him, at least not in the sense you seem to mean. He
> > is perfectly capable of stating his own reasons, which you call excuses.
>
> >
> > Also the claim to a higher plain of existence being an academic
> doesn't
> > work either. Both you and Lentulus have been, and are political, just as
> > prepared to use a well crafted little insult or witty slice. You
> especially
> > are well known for that.
> >
> > ATS: Academics may indulge in politics. The late senator Daniel Patrick
> > Moynihan did, and so have others.
>
> >
> > I actually wonder if you have looked at what would be affected on the
> Wiki.
> > This talk of the loss to posterity clearly tells me you actually
> haven't
> > examined this closely, or maybe at all, looking at the "affected" pages.
> > Hardly much there to stand out.
> >
> > Bookburning? <lol> More drama?
> >
> > ATS: No drama, but you sure are heading to the Fahrenheit 451 pyre. Your
> > pal Sulla has even asked who is next.
> >
> > So much exageration.
> >
> > ATS: Exaggeration? When a vindictive group of citizens (apparently those
> > in the consular cohors) wants all mention of a major religious official
> and
> > former high magistrate removed from our sites, wants all his pictures
> removed
> > or altered, wants any possible echo of his name forbidden to future
> citizens
> > (although that was already done long ago by virtue of the fact that his
> gens
> > is ahistoric, and closed)...and this is exaggeration? Goodness, what
> would
> > you deem non-exaggeration? If I say Alaska has a tropical climate, now,
> yes
> > that is an exaggeration from our perspective, but if one compares it with
> that
> > of Mars or Jupiter or Saturn, the Alaskan climate might be considered
> quite
> > balmy.
> >
> >
> > Between you and Lentulus, you could become a travelling troupe of
> dramatists.
> >
> > ATS: I don�t think so, though he is pretty good at RR rituals. I have
> > zero acting talent.
>
> >
> >
> > The Nova Roman Mummers starting Lastica and Lenny. Anyway, as to what
> will or
> > will not be obeyed, well we will see, and as to what is ,and isn't
> > nonsense about the SCU, the need etc. watch this space.
> >
> > ATS: And now it seems that even Sulla has called for the removal of the
> > damnatio memoriae section...and who wrote that one? Cato?
> >
> > Difficult concept: laws which are amoral [nefas, in RR terms] need not be
> > obeyed. My ancestors fought against some illegal laws, and many others
> have
> > done so in many times and places around the world. Too many have perished
> > fighting for what was right, but their goals were reached.
> >
> > There are always developments.
> >
> > ATS: Yes, in NR we can always count on the electronic equivalent of
> > Hockey Night in Canada. I don�t know WHAT you lads will do when there is
> no
> > one left in NR who opposes your viewpoints. There won�t be anyone to
> fight,
> > and for you pugnacious sorts, all the fun will have gone out of
> membership
> > here.
> >
> > Optime vale
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83782 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Next SCU application
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Cornelio Sullae Cn. Julio Caesari quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Ave!
>
> With all this discussion on <Piscinus> I think we not
>
>
> ATS: Should not? Ought not? Was haben wir heute?
>
> to lose sight on
> others in NR who are affected by the terms of the SCU. Consul, are you
> working on the next individual(s) who are affected by the terms of the SCU?
>
> ATS: As the song goes, You¹ve got to pick up ev¹ry stitch...this is the
> season of the witch. Get out those stakes and torches, those feathers and
> vats of tar. The witch hunt is in session.
>
> Oh, Caesar: Last I heard, edicta expire with the term of the magistrate
> who issued them. They do NOT live on forever.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
>
> Valete.
>
>
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83783 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Next SCU application
Ave!

Ought not to forget. So much for multi-tasking doing NR mail while I am
working on my day job. But, at least the intent of what I was saying did
not get lost - given your previous email to the ML. Since, you knew exactly
the intent of my questioning. ;)

Oh and I thought that too about Edicts that they expire after a year, but
after a conversation with Caesar - I was corrected. I am sure he will
educate you on the Edicts that are promulgated under an SCU.

Vale,

Sulla

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 3:22 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
> wrote:

>
>
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica L. Cornelio Sullae Cn. Julio Caesari quiritibus
> bonae
> > voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> >
> > Ave!
> >
> > With all this discussion on <Piscinus> I think we not
> >
> >
> > ATS: Should not? Ought not? Was haben wir heute?
>
> >
> > to lose sight on
> > others in NR who are affected by the terms of the SCU. Consul, are you
> > working on the next individual(s) who are affected by the terms of the
> SCU?
> >
> > ATS: As the song goes, You�ve got to pick up ev�ry stitch...this is the
> > season of the witch. Get out those stakes and torches, those feathers and
> > vats of tar. The witch hunt is in session.
> >
> > Oh, Caesar: Last I heard, edicta expire with the term of the magistrate
> > who issued them. They do NOT live on forever.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> > Valete.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83784 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Next SCU application
Caesar Scholasticae sal.

Read the law. Unless confirmed is one approach. The other I favour is that the lex on edicta confirmation and term limits clearly is only referring to non-SCU edicta. If and when we get to that stage I will be happy to walk you through both options.

Also if you think I hadn't known there was also going to be an issue over that too ...;)

Ultimately there are a number of ways to deal with this. You get all the benefit of the suspense waiting to see which legal candies are produced for you to choose which one to suck on and digest with our colleagues in the Senate. Just make sure you don't pick the one that makes your tongue swell and turn black. ;)

Just like a festive season come early .... no?

Optime valete


--- On Wed, 3/16/11, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...> wrote:

> From: A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...>
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Next SCU application
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, March 16, 2011, 4:22 PM
> > 
> >  A. Tullia Scholastica L. Cornelio Sullae Cn.
> Julio Caesari quiritibus bonae
> > voluntatis S.P.D.
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83785 From: Q. Fabius Maximus Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Next SCU application
Oh, Caesar: Last I heard, edicta expire with the term of the magistrate
> who issued them. They do NOT live on forever.
>




Unless of course they were renewed.


Fabius

Sent from my Black Berry




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83786 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Next SCU application
Ave,

Not when edicts are promulgated under an SCU.

Vale,

Sulla

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 2:40 PM, Q. Fabius Maximus <QFabiusMaxmi@...>wrote:

>
>
>
>
> Oh, Caesar: Last I heard, edicta expire with the term of the magistrate
> > who issued them. They do NOT live on forever.
> >
>
> Unless of course they were renewed.
>
>
> Fabius
>
> Sent from my Black Berry
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83787 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: Next SCU application
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Citizens and magistrates, I thank you for your input and concerns. It is my final decision that we shall adopt this template then for future use, if and when it becomes necessary.

The edict will stand as pronounced, but no further action than has been taken needs to be taken at this point. There will be NO doctoring of photos, and there will be NO use of "nemo" in place of anyone's name in our records or archives.


----------------------------------------------

EX OFFICIO P. ULLERII VENATORIS GAII EQUITI CATONIS CONSULUM

Under the authority granted to the consuls of Nova Roma by the Senate of Nova
Roma in the senatus consultum ultimum regarding individuals holding
membership/citizenship in multiple organizations and their relationship to our
Respublica while members of those organizations, specifically that:

"No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma shall be allowed to
use their her/his membership either to create, develop or promote such competing
organizations, or to act negatively towards Nova Roma, its citizenry, its image
and reputation, its organization and actions..." (senatus consultum ultimum
passed on a.d. IV Kal. Mar. 2764 AUC, section 1)

and that towards any member who does so

"Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take every measure to prevent, avoid or
eliminate any one of the situations evoked in the article 1, including the
rights to refuse the admission of an applicant member, to remove a member of
her/his membership, to remove or deprive him/her, for a given time, of all or a
part of her/his rights of member and/or of her/his rights, powers, privileges
and honors which (s)he may hold inside Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova
Roma, including Article II.B of the Constitution of Nova Roma." (op.cit. section
5)

and in view of the activities practiced by/statements made by XXX, in violation
of the terms of the senatus consultum ultimum we, the consuls of Nova Roma,
hereby strip XXX of his citizenship in Nova Roma, and any offices, titles,
honors, or dignities he may hold in our Republic.

We instruct the owners of any official Lists, religious or civil, of which he
may currently be a subscriber, to remove him from those Lists and ban him in
perpetuity from them, and we instruct the censors to archive their citizenship
information.

This edict is effective immediately upon publication.

Given under our hands this XXX day of XXX in the consulships of P. Ullerius
Venator and C. Equitius Cato.

Publius Ullerius Venator
Gaius Equitius Cato
Consuls

----------------------------------------------------------

The consuls are currently working with the censors and praetors to identify areas of concern, and will be issuing edicta as necessary.

Valete bene,

Cato


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave!
>
> With all this discussion on John Reali, I think we not to lose sight on
> others in NR who are affected by the terms of the SCU. Consul, are you
> working on the next individual(s) who are affected by the terms of the SCU?
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83788 From: Publius Ullerius Stephanus Venator Date: 2011-03-16
Subject: Re: EDICTUM CONSULARE - corrected
Salve et Salvete;

My power was off and then my ISP was off-synch (could access part of
the 'Web' but not Gmail???); catching up, AGAIN.

It seems to me that if we were following ancient example, the man
formerly known to us as Piscinus would have been killed, along with
those of his family who we were able to find.

The Consular Edict, empowered by the SCU, does this in a "virtual"
fashion, save that members of this Familia have not been targeted for
proscription.

John R, known to us as Piscinus, did make some contributions.

However, his leadership (however failed and faulty) seemed to be
tailored for self aggrandizement.

He sought to bend that which I have sought to help build to his own purposes.

That is not why Cassius and Vedius (in my informed opinion) sought to
create Nova Roma.

I have no problem whatsoever in eliminating (or erasing) those who
seek to bring harm upon Nova Roma, or divert the Res Publica to their
selfish ends.

More as I read more - Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83789 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: De edicto consulari vetando.
C. Petronius Q. Fabio Maximo s.p.d.,

>>> Senator. If I understand you correctly when you voted to give the Consuls ultimate power to resolve the situation, you did not understand what you were doing. Is that your claim?<<<

It is not I did not understand, it is that I voted for his plenipotentia for the SCU, id est about the dual membership, I never voted for a damnatio memoriae.

And I am convinced that a damnatio memoriae is not in accordance with the SCU. Unless I thought to vote for something which will establish rules on the dual membership and I voted the full powers to the consuls, id est to Cato and to Venator, not to Caesar, for running the rules which are exspected and also a future bill on this subject.

In my mind I was on a directors board voting something serious in a serious organization...

But this first experience will show me that I will not vote for an SCU in the future.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XVI Kalendas Apriles P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83790 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: De edicto consulari - censorial position
C. Dexter Cn. Caesari s.p.d.,

> 1. The consuls are empowered to oversee the application of the SCU, which allows them to use any and all means in short to solve the problem.

To oversee is not only to make what we like.

We voted for an SCU on a dual membership and where are the news about? The only thing the consuls (and more I presume) did is an edictum against Moravius.

It is not the in frame of the SCU.

> 2. There is no such thing as damnatio memoriae under NR law, so the Senate can't have perogative over something that doesn't exist.

Our NR laws did not cover all the cases, a damnatio memoriae was something used in ancient Rome, it was used by the Senate. The Senate of Nova Roma being the heir of the old Senate, the NR Senate can use the damnatio memoriae and only the senate.

A society as our is not only moved by the laws but also and mostly by the mos maiorum.

> The Consuls have oversight of the MA under normal SC conditions.

We knew in France laws against Jewish citizens. And all criminals used the laws conditions... I think that we have to reenact the Roman virtues.

I do not want to deny the powers given to the consuls by this SCU on the dual membership problems, but even gods have their limits. Cato and Venator were not mandated to make damnationes memoriae nor lists of proscription.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XVI Kalendas Apriles P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83791 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: De edicto consulari - censorial position
Caesar Dextro sal.

Well I think we will have to agree to disagree.

Optime vale


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83792 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

Once again I interrupt this contentious discussion to inform you that I
spoke with C. Maria Caeca a couple of hours ago, and that she is sounding
stronger than ever. She is on a normal unrestricted diet, liberated from
all tubes, and has been roaming about in a wheelchair.

I informed her of our latest developments, and she said that she wished
she had a computer to post on this issue. I think she would be pleased that
something resembling good sense has begun to penetrate the deep recesses of
minds which prefer to ban it, for they may find that this serpent will bite
them someday, too.

Incidentally, it seems that Yahoo is delivering posts out of order
again...

Valete.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83793 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Ave!

Jesus...shades of Maior and Cordus! Just wow.

Sulla

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 11:23 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <
fororom@...> wrote:

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> Once again I interrupt this contentious discussion to inform you that I
> spoke with C. Maria Caeca a couple of hours ago, and that she is sounding
> stronger than ever. She is on a normal unrestricted diet, liberated from
> all tubes, and has been roaming about in a wheelchair.
>
> I informed her of our latest developments, and she said that she wished
> she had a computer to post on this issue. I think she would be pleased that
> something resembling good sense has begun to penetrate the deep recesses of
> minds which prefer to ban it, for they may find that this serpent will bite
> them someday, too.
>
> Incidentally, it seems that Yahoo is delivering posts out of order
> again...
>
> Valete.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83794 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Caesar Scholasticae sal

The serpent already tried to bite some of us. You forget the dictatorship attempt.

As for your posts, did you adjust your clock on your computer?

Optime vale



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83795 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Julio Caesari quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Caesar Scholasticae sal
>
> The serpent already tried to bite some of us. You forget the dictatorship
> attempt.
>
> ATS: The serpent is the SCU and the edictum...and that dictatorship
> attempt would likely have been much more benign than this vindictive behavior
> we have seen of late.
>
> As for your posts, did you adjust your clock on your computer?
>
> ATS: Didn¹t have to. It adjusts itself automatically. This time both
> your post and Sulla¹s preceded mine. Periodically Yahoo likes to send things
> to Pluto.
>
> Optime vale
>
> Optime valete.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83796 From: Robert Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Ave,

If you think that you are certainly free to go to the rpr and participate in the cult of the fishhead!

Vale

Sulla

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 17, 2011, at 12:36 AM, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:

> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Julio Caesari quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> >
> > Caesar Scholasticae sal
> >
> > The serpent already tried to bite some of us. You forget the dictatorship
> > attempt.
> >
> > ATS: The serpent is the SCU and the edictum...and that dictatorship
> > attempt would likely have been much more benign than this vindictive behavior
> > we have seen of late.
> >
> > As for your posts, did you adjust your clock on your computer?
> >
> > ATS: Didn’t have to. It adjusts itself automatically. This time both
> > your post and Sulla’s preceded mine. Periodically Yahoo likes to send things
> > to Pluto.
> >
> > Optime vale
> >
> > Optime valete.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83797 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: a.d. XVI Kal. April. - LIBERALIA
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XVI Kalendas Aprilis; hic dies nefastus publicus est.

"There's a popular festival of Bacchus, on the third day
After the Ides: Bacchus, favour the poet who sings your feast.
I'll not speak about Semele: you'd have been born defenceless,
If it hadn't been that Jupiter brought her his lightning too.
Nor will I tell how the mother's labour was fulfilled
In a father's body, so you might duly be born their son.
It would take long to tell of the conquered Sithonians,
And the Scythians, and the races of incense-bearing India.
I'll be silent about you too, Pentheus, sad prey to your own mother,
And you Lycurgus, who killed your own son in madness.
Lo, I'd like to speak of the monstrous Tyrrhenians, who
Suddenly became dolphins, but that's not the task of this verse.
The task of this verse is to set out the reasons,
Why a vine-planter sells his cakes to the crowd.
Liber, before your birth the altars were without offerings,
And grass appeared on the stone-cold hearths.
They tell how you set aside the first fruits for Jupiter,
After subduing the Ganges region, and the whole of the East.
You were the first to offer up cinnamon and incense
From conquered lands, and the roast entrails of triumphal oxen.
Libations derive their name from their originator,
And cake (liba) since a part is offered on the sacred hearth.
Honey-cakes are baked for the god, because he delights in sweet
Substances, and they say that Bacchus discovered honey.
He was travelling from sandy Hebrus, accompanied
By Satyrs, (my tale contains a not-unpleasant jest)
And he'd come to Mount Rhodope, and flowering Pangaeus:
With the cymbals clashing in his companions' hands.
Behold unknown winged things gather to the jangling,
Bees, that follow after the echoing bronze.
Liber gathered the swarm and shut it in a hollow tree,
And was rewarded with the prize of discovering honey.
Once the Satyrs, and old bald-headed Silenus, had tasted it,
They searched for the yellow combs in every tree.
The old fellow heard a swarm humming in a hollow elm,
Saw the honeycombs, but pretended otherwise:
And sitting lazily on his hollow-backed ass,
He rode it up to the elm where the trunk was hollow.
He stood and leant on the stump of a branch,
And greedily reached for the honey hidden inside.
But thousands of hornets gathered, thrusting their stings
Into his bald head, leaving their mark on his snub-nosed face.
He fell headlong, and received a kick from the ass,
As he shouted to his friends and called for help.
The Satyrs ran up, and laughed at their father's face,
While he limped about on his damaged knee.
Bacchus himself laughed and showed him the use of mud:
Silenus took his advice, and smeared his face with clay.
Father Liber loves honey: its right to offer its discoverer
Glittering honey diffused through oven-warm cakes.
The reason why a woman presides isn't obscure:
Bacchus stirs crowds of women with his thyrsus.
Why an old woman, you ask? That age drinks more,
And loves the gifts of the teeming vine.
Why is she wreathed with ivy? Ivy's dearest to Bacchus:
And why that's so doesn't take long to tell.
They say that when Juno his stepmother was searching
For the boy, the nymphs of Nysa hid the cradle in ivy leaves.
It remains for me to reveal why the toga virilis, the gown
Of manhood, is given to boys on your day, Bacchus:
Whether it's because you seem to be ever boy or youth,
And your age is somewhere between the two:
Or because you're a father, fathers commend their sons,
Their pledges of love, to your care and divinity:
Or because you're Liber, the gown of liberty
And a more liberated life are adopted, for you:
Or is it because, in the days when the ancients tilled the fields
More vigorously, and Senators worked their fathers' land,
And `rods and axes' took Consuls from the curving plough,
And it wasn't a crime to have work-worn hands,
The farmers came to the City for the games,
(Though that was an honour paid to the gods, and not
Their inclination: and the grape's discoverer held his games
This day, while now he shares that of torch-bearing Ceres):
And the day seemed not unfitting for granting the toga,
So that a crowd could celebrate the fresh novice?
Father turn your mild head here, and gentle horns,
And spread the sails of my art to a favourable breeze.
If I remember rightly, on this, and the preceding day,
Crowds go to the Argei - their own page will tell who they are." -
Ovid, Fasti III

Today is the festival of the Liberalia. Priests and aged priestesses,
adorned with garlands of ivy, carried through the city wine, honey,
cakes, and sweet-meats, together with an altar with a handle (ansata
ara), in the middle of which there was a small fire-pan (foculus), in
which from time to time sacrifices were burnt.

On this day Roman youths who had attained their sixteenth year
received the toga virilis. The boys removed the phallic bullae
charms - which had protected them in youth - from around their necks
and offered them to the household gods. Their fathers took them to the
Forum in Rome and presented them as adults and citizens. This was in
the days when male rites of passage were encouraged.

An infans was incapable of doing any legal act. An impubes, who had
passed the limits of infantia, could do any legal act with the
auctoritas of his tutor; without such auctoritas he could only do
those acts which were for his benefit. With the attainment of
pubertas, a person obtained the full power of his property, and the
tutela ceased: he could also dispose of his property by will; and he
could contract marriage.

Valete bene!

Cato
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83798 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Caesar Scholasticae sal.

Your perception of the benign nature of the proposed dictatorship Is coloured by the fact that you would have been one of those applauding the decisions of Marinus to banish people, rather than one of those banished. You also confuse determined and thorough with vindictive. I must say I am impressed by this transformation of you from the rigid martinet lecturing people about loyalty to NR, the need to obey magistrates, how NR would be better off without certain individuals (never named, only implied), etc etc into a pale faint flicker of Che Guevara.

Optime vale

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83799 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Shades and Jesus
Salve Sulla,

> Jesus...shades of Maior and Cordus!

I do understand the link with "the shades of Maior and Cordus", but who is "Jesus" ? ;-)

If you intend to use an interjection, a Republican Roman would rather use something like "Dii immortales" or "Mehercule". :-)

I know that we may not often realize how - and depending naturally on the countries we live - we are "prisoners" of our language habits and the print marked in it by several centuries of the main monotheist religion.

But I am convinced that why we are here, in a Roma Republic whose official religion is the Roman traditional one, is to make efforts in surpassing our national daily habits.

Small streams make rivers. Just a small stream to bring, or, said otherwise, in a lunar vocabulary, "one small step for each of one, one giant leap for Nova Roma". :-)

Vale Censori,


Albucius csr




--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave!
>
> Jesus...shades of Maior and Cordus! Just wow.
>
> Sulla
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 11:23 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <
> fororom@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> > Once again I interrupt this contentious discussion to inform you that I
> > spoke with C. Maria Caeca a couple of hours ago, and that she is sounding
> > stronger than ever. She is on a normal unrestricted diet, liberated from
> > all tubes, and has been roaming about in a wheelchair.
> >
> > I informed her of our latest developments, and she said that she wished
> > she had a computer to post on this issue. I think she would be pleased that
> > something resembling good sense has begun to penetrate the deep recesses of
> > minds which prefer to ban it, for they may find that this serpent will bite
> > them someday, too.
> >
> > Incidentally, it seems that Yahoo is delivering posts out of order
> > again...
> >
> > Valete.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83800 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Shades and Jesus
Cato Albucio omnibusque in foro SPD

Cute, indeed :)

I would caution us, however, against acting as if the past two thousand years have not occurred, censor. The fact that the "main monotheist" religion has placed its indelible stamp on our languages and cultures is not something that we can simply wish away by avoiding using the Name of its Founder, no matter how fervently one might want to.

Those who practice the religiones Romanae should rather simply say, "yes, we know all about this religion and we do not accept it as a viable alternative to the practices of our ancestors, although we recognize its obvious historical impact" rather than pretending it's an unknown element of life "outside" our experience. One might just as well pretend that we do not have electricity or the printing press.

I have often said that the best way to promote the cultus Deorum is not by comparing or contrasting it to any other religious system, specifically - but not limited to - Christianity, and especially not by acting as some kind of pagan Inquisition, rooting out heretics and suppressing any other expression of private religious belief.

The cult of the Gods is valuable and inherently worthy of respect in and of itself, not because it is "better" than anything else. Its grandeur and majesty are undeniable, its quirks and peculiarities fascinating, and its application necessary for the health of the State; yet it does not exist in a vacuum.

Valete bene!

Cato



--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "publiusalbucius" <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Sulla,
>
> > Jesus...shades of Maior and Cordus!
>
> I do understand the link with "the shades of Maior and Cordus", but who is "Jesus" ? ;-)
>
> If you intend to use an interjection, a Republican Roman would rather use something like "Dii immortales" or "Mehercule". :-)
>
> I know that we may not often realize how - and depending naturally on the countries we live - we are "prisoners" of our language habits and the print marked in it by several centuries of the main monotheist religion.
>
> But I am convinced that why we are here, in a Roma Republic whose official religion is the Roman traditional one, is to make efforts in surpassing our national daily habits.
>
> Small streams make rivers. Just a small stream to bring, or, said otherwise, in a lunar vocabulary, "one small step for each of one, one giant leap for Nova Roma". :-)
>
> Vale Censori,
>
>
> Albucius csr
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83801 From: Robert Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Ave

The only magistrates she obeys are the buddies of Regulus.

Vale

Sulla

Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 17, 2011, at 4:22 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:

> Caesar Scholasticae sal.
>
> Your perception of the benign nature of the proposed dictatorship Is coloured by the fact that you would have been one of those applauding the decisions of Marinus to banish people, rather than one of those banished. You also confuse determined and thorough with vindictive. I must say I am impressed by this transformation of you from the rigid martinet lecturing people about loyalty to NR, the need to obey magistrates, how NR would be better off without certain individuals (never named, only implied), etc etc into a pale faint flicker of Che Guevara.
>
> Optime vale
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83802 From: publiusalbucius Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Shades and Jesus
Catoni consuli s.d.

I think that you are shifting the discussing aside, but a few thoughts :

> The cult of the Gods is valuable and inherently worthy of respect >in and of itself, not because it is "better" than anything else.

This is not the main reason, imo. I would even say that, for our Ancients, the question could not be asked like this (better or not): until Christianism was recognized as State religion in the Late Empire, there was no doubt on the fact that the Gods were several ones. Even the Mithraism, for ex., took a place inside a polytheist frame. They could not even, imho, just imagine a monotheist world. No, the main reason is that there is no, by essence, Roman Republic without an official religion, the Religio Romana aka the ancient polytheist one. This is why our Constitution, with its forces and weaknesses, had recognized it as such, for it had no alternate choice.

> I have often said that the best way to promote the cultus Deorum is >not by comparing or contrasting it to any other religious system, >specifically - but not limited to - Christianity, and especially not >by acting as some kind of pagan Inquisition, rooting out heretics >and suppressing any other expression of private religious belief.

You are mainly right. This is globally the same kind of difference between removing one citizen and trying to erase his memories. ;-)
This said, in both fields, we cannot do without defining the "in" and the "out".
Here, the "in" is to remind the official role of the RR and that, specially when we hold public positions, we are supposed at least to make efforts.
From the moment the "in" is not contested and works normally, the "out" (every other religion or cult) will ask no problem.
For you well know that what is at stake is not the expression of "private religious belief", but of beliefs or religio-cultural habits expressed in our public sphere, and specially by our officials.
To pick up my recurrent example of a Basket team, it is as if one would wish to play with her/his own shirt in official competitions : as long as "you" ;-) come to training session all along the week with your pink-velvet (let us say ;-) ) shirt, there is no problem ; you may keep your trousers, put 3 jackets over your shirt, no problem either. But when we play in the official competition, we are supposed to wear the approved kit, proper to our own team.

Last, I think that we are currently in a period where we *need*, litteraly speaking, to remind our fundamentals.
Why ? because we are in the aftermaths of a crisis, where we risk, after having defended the Republic against our Polytheist Fundamentalists (to say short) now confusing, maybe by "human" these fundamentalists with the fundamentals itself, the RR.
Here, I am still convinced that you will, as non RR-cultor consul, a major role to play in helping our Republic to come back to steadiness, showing that, beyond your own beliefs, you watch defending the institutions as they are.


> Those who practice the religiones Romanae should rather simply >say, "yes, (..)

This point was not mine. :-)
For I do not place myself as a RR cultor, but as a NR official who is requested to have applied its fundamentals and to show the example, as an experienced citizen and as a censor.
Do I approve the way our Constitution has set things ? This is not the matter. :-) What matters is that, when each of us entered NR, we did in full knowledge of our social and legal frame, specially in public.


>On your central argument that Christianism "has placed its indelible >stamp on our languages and cultures (and) is not something that we >can simply wish away by avoiding using the Name of its Founder(..)

The thing is not to contest the weight of History, but just to say that, if we feel ourselves really Romans, and specially Republicans, we must *at least* make a few efforts.
For precisely, if one enters NR, it is not to pay homage to JC, Buddha, Allah or Yahve. There are thousands of organizations to do that.
We are not in an ordinary non-profit : we sign up, from the moment we enter NR, that we have to pay homage to the Gods of Rome in public. No one puts a gun on our head to get in, not prevent us to get out.
Let us be just honest and make small efforts.


Second, also : see the way you are speaking. :-)
Why "indelible" ? It may look now, but in 500 years ?
And why do I succeed in preventing to say "My God" or "Jesus!" and why could not X or Y ? Am I already in the "Post indelibility" phase, and is it just a matter of effort ?

And why putting "name" and "founder" in capitals, if you express as consul and official ? :-)

Understand me : there is no fate : every one of us has the choice. It asks just a bit thought, just to say "here, I am a Roman" and a basic respect for our social common contract. :-)


The last question is an interesting one, objectively : what we would be supposed, here in Nova Roma, in the frame of our community/Republic/heir of Ancient Rome, to take for granted
from the outside ?

I think that we have here a major question that - just because we have the head in daily politics - we do not discuss of.

If we are to reenact the Ancient Rome, we would tend "naturally" to minimize, for example, the History from Theodosius to nowadays, considering it as a parenthesis and to organize our "ideology" in consequence, choosing this, rejecting that, etc.

The other way of living our romanitas is saying that we are a Roman community deeply rooted in our times.

Then whatever the thread picked here up, (1st or 2nd one), each of one carries consequences on how we see the world, and also "political" ones. If we could, here would be a very interesting debate, but which probably structure our future, the way we are organized, and our relation with extra-NR world.

Vale Consul,


Albucius csr


--------------------------------------------


--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Albucio omnibusque in foro SPD
>
> Cute, indeed :)
>
> I would caution us, however, against acting as if the past two thousand years have not occurred, censor. The fact that the "main monotheist" religion has placed its indelible stamp on our languages and cultures is not something that we can simply wish away by avoiding using the Name of its Founder, no matter how fervently one might want to.
>
> Those who practice the religiones Romanae should rather simply say, "yes, we know all about this religion and we do not accept it as a viable alternative to the practices of our ancestors, although we recognize its obvious historical impact" rather than pretending it's an unknown element of life "outside" our experience. One might just as well pretend that we do not have electricity or the printing press.
>
> I have often said that the best way to promote the cultus Deorum is not by comparing or contrasting it to any other religious system, specifically - but not limited to - Christianity, and especially not by acting as some kind of pagan Inquisition, rooting out heretics and suppressing any other expression of private religious belief.
>
> The cult of the Gods is valuable and inherently worthy of respect in and of itself, not because it is "better" than anything else. Its grandeur and majesty are undeniable, its quirks and peculiarities fascinating, and its application necessary for the health of the State; yet it does not exist in a vacuum.
>
> Valete bene!
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "publiusalbucius" <albucius_aoe@> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Sulla,
> >
> > > Jesus...shades of Maior and Cordus!
> >
> > I do understand the link with "the shades of Maior and Cordus", but who is "Jesus" ? ;-)
> >
> > If you intend to use an interjection, a Republican Roman would rather use something like "Dii immortales" or "Mehercule". :-)
> >
> > I know that we may not often realize how - and depending naturally on the countries we live - we are "prisoners" of our language habits and the print marked in it by several centuries of the main monotheist religion.
> >
> > But I am convinced that why we are here, in a Roma Republic whose official religion is the Roman traditional one, is to make efforts in surpassing our national daily habits.
> >
> > Small streams make rivers. Just a small stream to bring, or, said otherwise, in a lunar vocabulary, "one small step for each of one, one giant leap for Nova Roma". :-)
> >
> > Vale Censori,
> >
> >
> > Albucius csr
>
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83803 From: deciusiunius Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
Salve Scholastica,

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Julio Caesari quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
> >
> >
> >
> > Caesar Scholasticae sal
> >
> > The serpent already tried to bite some of us. You forget the dictatorship
> > attempt.
> >
> > ATS: The serpent is the SCU and the edictum...and that dictatorship
> > attempt would likely have been much more benign than this vindictive behavior
> > we have seen of late.


Like you I am no fan of some aspects of the current SCU, namely the damnatio memoriae aspect of it, but am under no illusions that a major component of the dictatorship, beside being an attempt to seize power, would have been a fairly lengthy list of proscriptions.


Vale,


Palladius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83804 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Shades and Jesus
Gentlemen,

Ya'll have deviated from the point I was making which is the clear
comparison between Scholastica and Hortensia! Which is not the first time
Scholastica has done this. Quite frankly it's inappropriate. And, while in
the past when Hortensia used to do this I would joke about the scene from
Misery - this situation is with Caeca is NOT a laughing matter by any
stretch.

And, Scholastica would do Caeca a small mercy if she left Caeca's name out
of any discussion until Caeca recovers enough so that she can speak her own
mind on the topics at hand - because as far as I can see it (for what that
is worth) Caeca has enough of a recuperation that the stresses NR provides
would not be a benefit for her or anyone who has gone through what that
sweet woman is currently going through now.

That was my frustration that led to my outburst comparing Scholastica to
Maior.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Thu, Mar 17, 2011 at 7:48 AM, publiusalbucius
<albucius_aoe@...>wrote:

>
>
> Catoni consuli s.d.
>
> I think that you are shifting the discussing aside, but a few thoughts :
>
>
> > The cult of the Gods is valuable and inherently worthy of respect >in and
> of itself, not because it is "better" than anything else.
>
> This is not the main reason, imo. I would even say that, for our Ancients,
> the question could not be asked like this (better or not): until
> Christianism was recognized as State religion in the Late Empire, there was
> no doubt on the fact that the Gods were several ones. Even the Mithraism,
> for ex., took a place inside a polytheist frame. They could not even, imho,
> just imagine a monotheist world. No, the main reason is that there is no, by
> essence, Roman Republic without an official religion, the Religio Romana aka
> the ancient polytheist one. This is why our Constitution, with its forces
> and weaknesses, had recognized it as such, for it had no alternate choice.
>
>
> > I have often said that the best way to promote the cultus Deorum is >not
> by comparing or contrasting it to any other religious system, >specifically
> - but not limited to - Christianity, and especially not >by acting as some
> kind of pagan Inquisition, rooting out heretics >and suppressing any other
> expression of private religious belief.
>
> You are mainly right. This is globally the same kind of difference between
> removing one citizen and trying to erase his memories. ;-)
> This said, in both fields, we cannot do without defining the "in" and the
> "out".
> Here, the "in" is to remind the official role of the RR and that, specially
> when we hold public positions, we are supposed at least to make efforts.
> From the moment the "in" is not contested and works normally, the "out"
> (every other religion or cult) will ask no problem.
> For you well know that what is at stake is not the expression of "private
> religious belief", but of beliefs or religio-cultural habits expressed in
> our public sphere, and specially by our officials.
> To pick up my recurrent example of a Basket team, it is as if one would
> wish to play with her/his own shirt in official competitions : as long as
> "you" ;-) come to training session all along the week with your pink-velvet
> (let us say ;-) ) shirt, there is no problem ; you may keep your trousers,
> put 3 jackets over your shirt, no problem either. But when we play in the
> official competition, we are supposed to wear the approved kit, proper to
> our own team.
>
> Last, I think that we are currently in a period where we *need*, litteraly
> speaking, to remind our fundamentals.
> Why ? because we are in the aftermaths of a crisis, where we risk, after
> having defended the Republic against our Polytheist Fundamentalists (to say
> short) now confusing, maybe by "human" these fundamentalists with the
> fundamentals itself, the RR.
> Here, I am still convinced that you will, as non RR-cultor consul, a major
> role to play in helping our Republic to come back to steadiness, showing
> that, beyond your own beliefs, you watch defending the institutions as they
> are.
>
> > Those who practice the religiones Romanae should rather simply >say,
> "yes, (..)
>
> This point was not mine. :-)
> For I do not place myself as a RR cultor, but as a NR official who is
> requested to have applied its fundamentals and to show the example, as an
> experienced citizen and as a censor.
> Do I approve the way our Constitution has set things ? This is not the
> matter. :-) What matters is that, when each of us entered NR, we did in full
> knowledge of our social and legal frame, specially in public.
>
> >On your central argument that Christianism "has placed its indelible
> >stamp on our languages and cultures (and) is not something that we >can
> simply wish away by avoiding using the Name of its Founder(..)
>
> The thing is not to contest the weight of History, but just to say that, if
> we feel ourselves really Romans, and specially Republicans, we must *at
> least* make a few efforts.
> For precisely, if one enters NR, it is not to pay homage to JC, Buddha,
> Allah or Yahve. There are thousands of organizations to do that.
> We are not in an ordinary non-profit : we sign up, from the moment we enter
> NR, that we have to pay homage to the Gods of Rome in public. No one puts a
> gun on our head to get in, not prevent us to get out.
> Let us be just honest and make small efforts.
>
> Second, also : see the way you are speaking. :-)
> Why "indelible" ? It may look now, but in 500 years ?
> And why do I succeed in preventing to say "My God" or "Jesus!" and why
> could not X or Y ? Am I already in the "Post indelibility" phase, and is it
> just a matter of effort ?
>
> And why putting "name" and "founder" in capitals, if you express as consul
> and official ? :-)
>
> Understand me : there is no fate : every one of us has the choice. It asks
> just a bit thought, just to say "here, I am a Roman" and a basic respect for
> our social common contract. :-)
>
> The last question is an interesting one, objectively : what we would be
> supposed, here in Nova Roma, in the frame of our community/Republic/heir of
> Ancient Rome, to take for granted
> from the outside ?
>
> I think that we have here a major question that - just because we have the
> head in daily politics - we do not discuss of.
>
> If we are to reenact the Ancient Rome, we would tend "naturally" to
> minimize, for example, the History from Theodosius to nowadays, considering
> it as a parenthesis and to organize our "ideology" in consequence, choosing
> this, rejecting that, etc.
>
> The other way of living our romanitas is saying that we are a Roman
> community deeply rooted in our times.
>
> Then whatever the thread picked here up, (1st or 2nd one), each of one
> carries consequences on how we see the world, and also "political" ones. If
> we could, here would be a very interesting debate, but which probably
> structure our future, the way we are organized, and our relation with
> extra-NR world.
>
> Vale Consul,
>
> Albucius csr
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
> >
> > Cato Albucio omnibusque in foro SPD
> >
> > Cute, indeed :)
> >
> > I would caution us, however, against acting as if the past two thousand
> years have not occurred, censor. The fact that the "main monotheist"
> religion has placed its indelible stamp on our languages and cultures is not
> something that we can simply wish away by avoiding using the Name of its
> Founder, no matter how fervently one might want to.
> >
> > Those who practice the religiones Romanae should rather simply say, "yes,
> we know all about this religion and we do not accept it as a viable
> alternative to the practices of our ancestors, although we recognize its
> obvious historical impact" rather than pretending it's an unknown element of
> life "outside" our experience. One might just as well pretend that we do not
> have electricity or the printing press.
> >
> > I have often said that the best way to promote the cultus Deorum is not
> by comparing or contrasting it to any other religious system, specifically -
> but not limited to - Christianity, and especially not by acting as some kind
> of pagan Inquisition, rooting out heretics and suppressing any other
> expression of private religious belief.
> >
> > The cult of the Gods is valuable and inherently worthy of respect in and
> of itself, not because it is "better" than anything else. Its grandeur and
> majesty are undeniable, its quirks and peculiarities fascinating, and its
> application necessary for the health of the State; yet it does not exist in
> a vacuum.
> >
> > Valete bene!
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "publiusalbucius" <albucius_aoe@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Sulla,
> > >
> > > > Jesus...shades of Maior and Cordus!
> > >
> > > I do understand the link with "the shades of Maior and Cordus", but who
> is "Jesus" ? ;-)
> > >
> > > If you intend to use an interjection, a Republican Roman would rather
> use something like "Dii immortales" or "Mehercule". :-)
> > >
> > > I know that we may not often realize how - and depending naturally on
> the countries we live - we are "prisoners" of our language habits and the
> print marked in it by several centuries of the main monotheist religion.
> > >
> > > But I am convinced that why we are here, in a Roma Republic whose
> official religion is the Roman traditional one, is to make efforts in
> surpassing our national daily habits.
> > >
> > > Small streams make rivers. Just a small stream to bring, or, said
> otherwise, in a lunar vocabulary, "one small step for each of one, one giant
> leap for Nova Roma". :-)
> > >
> > > Vale Censori,
> > >
> > >
> > > Albucius csr
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83805 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Once again we interrupt this discussion...
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Decio Junio Palladio Invicto quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> It seems that several have forgotten that this topic was in reference to
> Caeca, not power trips among the rock ribs. Incidentally, Caeca is
> physically perfectly capable of posting here at present; all she needs is a
> laptop with her adaptive software and a net connection. It might be slow as
> she has the use of only one arm and hand, but otherwise she is able and ready
> to rejoin us.
>
> As for Marinus as putative dictator, yes, there might have been some
> proscriptions. Might. There are people who are disruptive, and who should be
> removed for the sake of NR. I seriously doubt, however, that such a list
> would be long. Moreover, it might have included some unexpected parties.
> Anna is one who might have been asked to leave, for she is very disruptive,
> and her computer expertise makes her even more dangerous.
>
> What we have now, Palladi, is a witch hunt, chasing down everyone in this
> new RPR group and claiming that mere dual membership is a form of treason.
> Originally the SCU (these days a sort of document being handed out like candy
> on Halloween) was supposed to deal with those who held offices in two or more
> organizations, which apparently was automatically deemed injurious to NR.
> Oddly, similar feelings about the SVR seem not to have arisen; only this RPR
> seems to have produced this (over)reaction. Now, however, mere membership is
> enough to trigger edicta of expulsion and bile spewing forth on our lists.
>
> It does not matter to the current PTB that NR is a shadow of its former
> self, and has earned even more ridicule than in the past; it does not matter
> to them that many fine people have left, and taken their talents and their
> devotion and their energy with them. What is most desirable now is the NR
> equivalent of Judenreinheit. Call it Librareinheit (or perhaps
> Frauenreinheit) if you will, but the idea is to drive out of NR everyone who
> does not share a single viewpoint. Attack anyone who is left until they
> leave, or proscribe them. Poor Caeca may return to find NR turned from a fine
> organization with a Roman government to one with a Roman government whose
> citizenship no one would care to seek, an oligarchy reveling in power and
> access to our treasury rather than in Romanitas. Sad, so sad.
>
> Oh, yes...one does not obey magistrates, one obeys directives from
> them...but ONLY if they are in keeping with two sets of other laws: those of
> Mother Nature and those of morality. If it¹s nefas, it does not have to be
> obeyed. If it contradicts the laws of Nature, it cannot be obeyed, You can
> arrange for every legislature on earth to pass a law stating that effective
> noon GMT next Tuesday, two things will be allowed to occupy the same space at
> the same time...but you might as well save your time and skip it, since that
> is impossible in this universe.
>
> Vale.
>
>
>
>
> Salve Scholastica,
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>>> > >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Julio Caesari quiritibus bonae voluntatis
>>> S.P.D.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Caesar Scholasticae sal
>>> > >
>>> > > The serpent already tried to bite some of us. You forget the
>>> dictatorship
>>> > > attempt.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: The serpent is the SCU and the edictum...and that dictatorship
>>> > > attempt would likely have been much more benign than this vindictive
>>> behavior
>>> > > we have seen of late.
>
> Like you I am no fan of some aspects of the current SCU, namely the damnatio
> memoriae aspect of it, but am under no illusions that a major component of the
> dictatorship, beside being an attempt to seize power, would have been a fairly
> lengthy list of proscriptions.
>
> Vale,
>
> Palladius
>
>
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 83806 From: Cato Date: 2011-03-17
Subject: Re: Shades and Jesus
Cato Cornelio Sullae Memmio Albucio censore omnibusque in foro SPD

Yes, Sulla, but so often the original intent of a thread wanders off, no?

And I find this fascinating. Albucius, the underlying current of your argument is troubling to me in some ways, however. It seems as if there is a desire for some kind of orthodoxy that would have been unknown among our ancient forebears.

The gods have made quite clear what They expect: certain prayers and sacrifices at certain times in a certain manner; adding anything to that takes an enormous amount of hubris since by definition you are second-guessing the gods after They've already *told* us what They want. You are adding things to the contract - the pax Deorum - that are neither wanted nor required by Them, telling Them that the actions They've set up as requirements aren't quite ... good enough - for you. A dangerous path to tread, with the temperaments of the gods being what they are.

If I were to walk through ancient Rome and bow my head whenever the Name of the Founder of my private cult was mentioned, I have no doubt that my neighbors would simply assume that He was a household god peculiar to my family for some reason or another - they would not immediately jump to the conclusion that I was of necessity defaming the gods of the State cult.

In fact, it is precisely *only* when members of my private cult refused to publicly offer specific sacrifices that they ran into trouble; otherwise, as Pliny said, they might have been foolish and deluded but they were certainly not dangerous. As long as members of my cult publicly respect and act in accordance with the necessities of keeping the pax Deorum in our Respublica, there is nothing wrong with *also* paying respect to our Founder, as in when I capitalize references to Him. I capitalize pronouns for *all* the gods - and He's one of Them.

Since it is a foundational - and explicitly Constitutional - element of our Respublica that we treat *all* religions with respect, we should strive to do so.

Valete bene,

Cato