Scholasticae omn.que s.d.

Excellent ! Good omens for this Megalensia month.
Please renew our warmest salutations.

Vale,


Albucius csr

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> Monday evening I spoke with Caeca, who is continuing to rebuild her
> strength. She is walking unassisted, and expects to be discharged to home
> on or about April 6th. She will, however, have to return to the hospital
> for additional surgery after a week and a half to two weeks or so as she
> still does not have use of one arm, though she is gaining mobility even
> there.
>
> Valete.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

SALVETE!

Hodie est Kalendae Aprilae; haec dies fastus est: Veneralia; Sacrum Iunonis Covellae.

Veneralia.

The Veneralia, held on April 1st, is the Roman festival of Venus Verticordia, "Venus the Changer of Hearts", the protector against vice. A temple to Venus Verticordia was built in Rome in 114 BC, and dedicated April 1, at the instruction of the Sibylline Books to atone for the inchastity of three Vestal Virgins.
The worship of the Goddess Fortuna Virilis, "Bold fortune", attended a man's career, was also part of this festival. Fortuna had a temple at the Forum Boarium and a sacred precinct on the Quirinalis as Fortuna Populi Romani, "the Fortune of the Roman people".

In Rome, women removed jewelry from the statue of the goddess, washed her, and adorned her with flowers, and similarly bathed themselves in the public baths wearing wreaths of myrtle on their heads. It was generally a day for women to seek divine help in their relations with men.

"Duly do ye worship the goddess, ye Latin mothers and brides, and ye, too, who wear not the fillets and long robe. Take off the golden necklaces from the marble neck of the goddess; take off her gauds; the goddess must be washed from top to toe. Then dry her neck and restore to it her golden necklaces; now give her other flowers, now give her the fresh-blown rose. Ye, too, she herself bids bathe under the green myrtle, and there is a certain reason for her command; learn what it is. Naked, she was drying on the shore her oozy locks, when the satyrs, a wanton crew, espied the goddess. She perceived it, and screened her body by myrtle interposed: that done, she was safe, and she bids you do the same. Learn now why ye give incense to Virile Fortune in the place which reeks of warm water. All women strip when they enter that place, and every blemish on the naked body is plain to see; Virile Fortune undertakes to conceal the blemish and to hide it from the men, and this she does for the consideration of a little incense. Nor grudge to take poppy pounded with snowy milk and liquid honey squeezed from the comb; when Venus was first escorted to her eager spouse, she drank that draught: from that time she was a bride. Propitiate her with supplications; beauty and virtue and good fame are in her keeping. In the time of our forefathers Rome had fallen from a state of chastity, and the ancients consulted the old woman of Cumae. She ordered a temple to be built to Venus, and when that was duly done, Venus took the name of Changer of the Heart (Verticordia) from the event. Fairest of goddesses, ever behold the sons of Aenas with look benign, and guard thine offspring's numerous wives.
[Classical E-Text, Ovid, Fasti Book 4, 133-163, translated by James J. Frazer]

This day, capite velato, I have invoked Iuno Covella on the 5th day by saying the traditional formula:

"Die Quinte te kalo Iuno Covella"

I offered incense and saying prayers I asked the Goddess to be favorable toward us, the entire Nova Roman community.

The festivals to be celebrated in the month of April shall be:

1 F Kalendae, Veneralia.
2 F Dies ater.
3 C.
4 C Ludi Megalenses.
5 N Nones; Ludi Megalenses.
6 N Dies ater, Ludi Megalenses.
7 N Nundina, Ludi Megalenses.
8 N Ludi Megalenses.
9 N Ludi Megalenses.
10 N Ludi Megalenses.
11 N.
12 N Ludi Cereales.
13 NP Idibus; Feriae Iovi, Ludi Cereales.
14 N Ater, Ludi Cereales.
15 NP Nundina, Fordicidia, Ludi Cereales.
16 N Ludi Cerealis
17 N Ludi Cerealis.
18 N Ludi Cerealis.
19 N Cerealia, Ludi Cereales.
20 N.
21 NP Palilia.
22 N.
23 F Nundina, Vinalia priora.
24 C.
25 NP Robigalia.
26 C
27 C
28 C Ludi Florales.
29 C Ludi Florales.
30 C Ludi Florales.

At the end I poured a libation of honeyed milk thanking to the Goddess for Her benevolence.

VALETE,
Sabinus

Salve Consul,

One of our major qualities, as Novaromans, is optimism.

Here, I am convinced that we will succeed soon in writing correctly our Latin dates i.e. at the nominative. ;-)

You remember that Dexter has already called your attention on the way to write correctly the Ides of March : see :
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/83736

For the Kalends, this is the same ! :-)

I know that in our current national languages, we say "to-day", using in fact a dative (same in French "au-jour-d'-hui", with "hui" coming from Latin 'hodie'). This is the same odd deviation which has called Constantinople "Istanbul", just because, when the Ottomans asked for the way of "the city", the people living in the countryside answered them : "Eis tèn polis" (in Greek "to the town").

Here, let us thank Latin, which is more logical than our "modern" languages : it says "hodie (= hoc dies) est Kalendae Apriles" which means "this day is the kalendS April".

In this sentence, you may see that you have a subject + verb "to be" + predicate.
Like in most modern languages, when you have a form "A is B", B is always at the same declension form, the nominative with the verb "to be".
When you say : "I am Tom", you do not say "I am to Tom", nor "My cat is to black" for "My cat is black" !!

It is the same here. The small difficulty is with the declension of the name of the month. In our current national languages, we say :
Kalends OF April. In Latin, the month "follows" the gender and case of the "kalends" : as they are plural+1st case, April will be plural+1st case, so Aprilis (nominative singular) will give AprilES.
It will be the same for all our months ending in -IS.

So, to-day is Kalend-AE April-ES.

If you want to be sure for the remaining months of this year, just ask one of our latinists to help you making a short table including the Kalends, the Nones and the Ides. It may be useful for you, and every official, also.

I suggest that you do not postpone... ad calendas graecas . ;-) (joke ; this said, here you see that it is an accusative, for there is a notion of move in "ad"). If you would like to say that you are mistaking since last Kal. of Dec. 2010 (let us imagine), you would say : "Erro e(x) kalendis decembribus 2763" (dative). :-)


Vale sincerely Consul,


Albucius csr



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est Kalendae Apriles; haec dies fastus est.

"Perform the rites of the goddess, Roman brides and mothers,
And you who must not wear the headbands and long robes.
Remove the golden necklaces from her marble neck,
Remove her riches: the goddess must be cleansed, complete.
Return the gold necklaces to her neck, once it's dry:
Now she's given fresh flowers, and new-sprung roses.
She commands you too to bathe, under the green myrtle,
And there's a particular reason for her command (learn, now!).
Naked, on the shore, she was drying her dripping hair:
The Satyrs, that wanton crowd, spied the goddess.
She sensed it, and hid her body with a screen of myrtle:
Doing so, she was safe: she commands that you do so too.
Learn now why you offer incense to Fortuna Virilis,
In that place that steams with heated water.
All women remove their clothes on entering,
And every blemish on their bodies is seen:
Virile Fortune undertakes to hide those from the men,
And she does this at the behest of a little incense.
Don't begrudge her poppies, crushed in creamy milk
And in flowing honey, squeezed from the comb:
When Venus was first led to her eager spouse,
She drank so: and from that moment was a bride.
Please her with words of supplication: beauty,
Virtue, and good repute are in her keeping.
In our forefather's time Rome lapsed from chastity:
And the ancients consulted the old woman of Cumae.
She ordered a temple built to Venus: when it was done
Venus took the name of Heart-Changer (Verticordia).
Loveliest One, always look with a benign gaze
On the sons of Aeneas, and guard their many wives.
As I speak, Scorpio, the tip of whose raised tail
Strikes fear, plunges down into the green waves." - Ovid, Fasti IV

"...in the Beginning of [April] there is read upon the Calends,
Veneralia ludi, Senatus legitimus. Now, it is possible these
Veneralia, were feasts in honour of Venus, which they celebrated with
publick Sports; which perfectly agrees...with the Words of Ausonius.
Before Venus there stands a Candlestick, with a Wax-taper lighted, in
the Flame of which they burnt Grains of Incense. The lines of Ausonius
are to this purpose: 'April does Honour to Venus cover'd with Myrtle.
With this Month is seen the Light of Incense, with which the
beneficent Ceres shines. Nor are those Perfumes wanting which are
always issue from the Paphian Goddess'." -Montfaucon, Antiq. Suppl.,
on the Calendar of Philocalus (p. 19)

"Hail, Lady of the Morning Star!
You who rose form the sea foam,
Born of the impersonal severed phallus of the sky
Immersed in the impersonal womb of the sea,
You who rode to shore on a shell of pearl
And whose powers no one can resist
Save the virgin goddesses,
You who bring the glow of gold
Into the lives of all whom you touch,
Lady, we revere you as the avatar
Of the love between equals
Who look each other in the eye,
The attraction and pursuit
Between every particle in the universe.
Hail, Lady of the Evening Star!
You who rule the night
With its darker passions,
You who tempt the wistful heart,
You whose hands reach out
To all the world and more,
Lady, we revere you as a force of nature
Far greater than merely the human heart,
For you are the force that binds together
All that dances with another of its kind
In the endless dance of creation." - Pagan Book of Hours, Hymn to
Venus

"Come to us Venus, O Queen of Cnidos and Paphos, leave Cyprus, though
the isle is dear to you, come instead to where the incense is thick
and Glycera sings to you, that you may transfer your home to your new
shrine among us. Bring along for your company desirous Cupid, with
loose-girdled Graces and laughing Nymphs, youthful Juventus and
Mercury, who without you are graceless." - Horace, Carminum Liber I.
XXX.1-8

"Why on the festival of the Veneralia do they pour out a great
quantity of wine from the temple of Venus?

Is it true, as most authorities affirm, that Mezentius, general of the
Etruscans, sent to Aeneas and offered peace on condition of his
receiving the year's vintage? But when Aeneas refused, Mezentius
promised his Etruscans that when he had prevailed in battle, he would
give them the wine. Aeneas learned of his promise and consecrated the
wine to the gods, and after his victory he collected all the vintage
and poured it out in front of the temple of Venus. Or is this also
symbolic, indicating that men should be sober and not drunken on
festival days, since the gods take more pleasure in those who spill
much strong drink than in those who imbibe it?" - Plutarch, Moralia,
"Roman Questions" 45


Today is the Veneralia, the Roman festival of Venus Verticordia
("Changer of hearts"), the goddess of love and beauty. The worship of
the goddess Fortuna Virilis ("Bold fortune") was also part of this
festival. In Rome, women removed jewelry from the statue of the
goddess, washed her, and adorned her with flowers, and similarly
bathed themselves in the public baths wearing wreaths of myrtle on
their heads. It was generally a day for women to seek divine help in
their relations with men. Venus is also the mother of Aeneas, the
Trojan hero of the Aeneid who left the fallen city of Troy with his
father Anchises on his back. Eventually, after a dalliance in Carthage
with Queen Dido, he arrived in Italy.

Venus is the Roman goddess of love and beauty, but originally a
vegetation goddess and patroness of gardens and vineyards. Later,
under Greek influence, she was equated with Aphrodite and assumed many
of her aspects. Her cult originated from Ardea and Lavinium in Latium.
The oldest temple known of Venus dates back to 293 B.C. and was
inaugurated on August 18. Later, on this date the Vinalia Rustica was
observed. A second festival, that of the Veneralia, is celebrated on
April 1 in honor of Venus Verticordia, who later became the protector
against vice. Her temple was built in 114 B.C. After the Roman defeat
near Lake Trasum in 215 B.C., a temple was built on the Capitol for
Venus Erycina.

Venus is the daughter of Iuppiter, and some of her lovers include Mars
and Vulcan, modeled on the affairs of Aphrodite. Venus' importance
rose, and that of her cult, through the influence of several Roman
political leaders. The dictator Sulla made her his patroness, and both
Julius Caesar and the emperor Augustus named her the ancestor of their
(Julian) family: the 'gens Julia' was Aeneas, son of Venus and the
mortal Anchises. Ceasar introduced the cult of Venus Genetrix, the
goddess of motherhood and marriage, and built a temple for her in 46
B.C. She was also honored in the temple of Mars Ultor. The last great
temple of Venus was built by the emperor Hadrianus near the Colusseum
in A.D. 135.

Valete bene!

Cato

Salve censor!

Thank you - it's a constant learning process :)

Vale bene!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Publius Memmius Albucius <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
>
> Salve Consul,
>
> One of our major qualities, as Novaromans, is optimism.
>
> Here, I am convinced that we will succeed soon in writing correctly our Latin dates i.e. at the nominative. ;-)
>
> You remember that Dexter has already called your attention on the way to write correctly the Ides of March : see :
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/83736
>
> For the Kalends, this is the same ! :-)
>
> I know that in our current national languages, we say "to-day", using in fact a dative (same in French "au-jour-d'-hui", with "hui" coming from Latin 'hodie'). This is the same odd deviation which has called Constantinople "Istanbul", just because, when the Ottomans asked for the way of "the city", the people living in the countryside answered them : "Eis tèn polis" (in Greek "to the town").
>
> Here, let us thank Latin, which is more logical than our "modern" languages : it says "hodie (= hoc dies) est Kalendae Apriles" which means "this day is the kalendS April".
>
> In this sentence, you may see that you have a subject + verb "to be" + predicate.
> Like in most modern languages, when you have a form "A is B", B is always at the same declension form, the nominative with the verb "to be".
> When you say : "I am Tom", you do not say "I am to Tom", nor "My cat is to black" for "My cat is black" !!
>
> It is the same here. The small difficulty is with the declension of the name of the month. In our current national languages, we say :
> Kalends OF April. In Latin, the month "follows" the gender and case of the "kalends" : as they are plural+1st case, April will be plural+1st case, so Aprilis (nominative singular) will give AprilES.
> It will be the same for all our months ending in -IS.
>
> So, to-day is Kalend-AE April-ES.
>
> If you want to be sure for the remaining months of this year, just ask one of our latinists to help you making a short table including the Kalends, the Nones and the Ides. It may be useful for you, and every official, also.
>
> I suggest that you do not postpone... ad calendas graecas . ;-) (joke ; this said, here you see that it is an accusative, for there is a notion of move in "ad"). If you would like to say that you are mistaking since last Kal. of Dec. 2010 (let us imagine), you would say : "Erro e(x) kalendis decembribus 2763" (dative). :-)
>
>
> Vale sincerely Consul,
>
>
> Albucius csr
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Actually, the censor's suggestion is a very good one. Could one of our Latinists write out the Kalends, Nones, and Ides of each month for calendrical use?

Valete bene,

Cato

C. Petronius T. Sabino s.p.d.,

> 26 C

Since the Julius Caesar reform, the month of April had 1 day more, from 29 days to 30 days, so the 26 April became Fastus dies by decision of Caesar.

Source: Macrobius, Saturnalia lib.,I,14.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Kalendis Aprilibus P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.


I do apologize for the delay in results, some things were checked many times
for accuracy(I'm nitpicky) especially with this quiz.. This quiz was very
labor filled and required lots of time and effort I'd like to thank all who
had participated in the quiz..If every question was answered absolutely
correct the perfect score would be a total of 197 points.. Also the answers
are located on the Ludi Romani page on the website.. Lets give applause to
our participants!


The results are as follows:

1st place: V. Valerius Volusus--187 pts
2nd place: M. Pomepius Caninus 180 pts.
3rd place: C. Solaris Alexander-44 pts.
4th place: C. Petronius Africanus--21 pts
5th: Ti. Marcius Quadratus--15pts

The prize goes to our first place winner V. Valerius Volusus and I'd like to
congratulate him.. There is a 10 day period of prize claiming after the
publishing of this e-mail, in order to claim prize please contact me at
MusesDream@..... If there is no prize claiming, it will go to the
second place winner and if they don't respond 3rd place winner so forth and
so on...

any questions please e-mail me at MusesDream@...

Vale Optime,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia (Aedilis Curulis)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> Scholastica Albucio quiritibusque S.P.D.
>
>
> Scholasticae omn.que s.d.
>
> Excellent ! Good omens for this Megalensia month.
> Please renew our warmest salutations.
>
> ATS: I conveyed your greetings to Caeca when I spoke with her. Things
> are rather difficult there regarding communications, for there are no bedside
> telephones, and she must use her own cell phone. She must therefore ask
> others to recharge the battery and to purchase minutes for her. We try to
> minimize our contacts so that her own phone is not worn out too quickly.
> Hopefully at least one of us will call her later next week to ascertain her
> location as well as learn about the upcoming plans for surgery and additional
> rehabilitation. We may also be able to visit her in a month or two.
>
> Vale,
>
> Albucius csr
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>> >
>> > Monday evening I spoke with Caeca, who is continuing to rebuild her
>> > strength. She is walking unassisted, and expects to be discharged to home
>> > on or about April 6th. She will, however, have to return to the hospital
>> > for additional surgery after a week and a half to two weeks or so as she
>> > still does not have use of one arm, though she is gaining mobility even
>> > there.
>> >
>> > Valete.
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica iterum P. Memmio Albucio quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Salve Consul,
>
> One of our major qualities, as Novaromans, is optimism.
>
> Here, I am convinced that we will succeed soon in writing correctly our Latin
> dates i.e. at the nominative. ;-)
>
> ATS: LOL!
>
> You remember that Dexter has already called your attention on the way to write
> correctly the Ides of March : see :
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/83736
>
> For the Kalends, this is the same ! :-)
>
> I know that in our current national languages, we say "to-day", using in fact
> a dative (same in French "au-jour-d'-hui", with "hui" coming from Latin
> 'hodie'). This is the same odd deviation which has called Constantinople
> "Istanbul", just because, when the Ottomans asked for the way of "the city",
> the people living in the countryside answered them : "Eis tèn polis" (in Greek
> "to the town").
>
> ATS: Um, probably eis tén polin, accusative...for polis is nominative,
> and eis, being a normal Greek preposition, does not govern the nominative.
> That sort of thing occurs in vernacular English, but not in civilized
> languages such as Latin, Greek, and Sanskrit, to say nothing of German and
> other languages...
>
> Here, let us thank Latin, which is more logical than our "modern" languages :
> it says "hodie (= hoc dies) est Kalendae Apriles" which means "this day is the
> kalendS April".
>
> ATS: And, given that Kalendae, like Nones and Ides, are plural, we might
> also say sunt. Idus sunt hodie...Kalendae sunt hodie...
>
> In this sentence, you may see that you have a subject + verb "to be" +
> predicate.
> Like in most modern languages, when you have a form "A is B", B is always at
> the same declension form, the nominative with the verb "to be".
> When you say : "I am Tom", you do not say "I am to Tom", nor "My cat is to
> black" for "My cat is black" !!
>
> ATS: Our fount of languages, Avitus, said that Arabic uses the predicate
> accusative rather than the predicate nominative...of course that is a Semitic
> language, not an Indo-European one, and rules differ.
>
> It is the same here. The small difficulty is with the declension of the name
> of the month. In our current national languages, we say :
> Kalends OF April. In Latin, the month "follows" the gender and case of the
> "kalends" : as they are plural+1st case, April will be plural+1st case, so
> Aprilis (nominative singular) will give AprilES.
> It will be the same for all our months ending in -IS.
>
> So, to-day is Kalend-AE April-ES.
>
> If you want to be sure for the remaining months of this year, just ask one of
> our latinists to help you making a short table including the Kalends, the
> Nones and the Ides. It may be useful for you, and every official, also.
>
>
> I suggest that you do not postpone... ad calendas graecas . ;-) (joke ; this
> said, here you see that it is an accusative, for there is a notion of move in
> "ad"). If you would like to say that you are mistaking since last Kal. of Dec.
> 2010 (let us imagine), you would say : "Erro e(x) kalendis decembribus 2763"
> (dative). :-)
>
> ATS: um, ablative, though they often look the same. E / ex governs the
> ablative, being one of some ten or twelve Latin prepositions which take the
> ablative rather than the accusative. Greek and German prepositions, of
> course, can take any oblique case with a difference in meaning, but Latin is
> so much simpler.
>
>
> Vale sincerely Consul,
>
>
> Albucius csr
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Reminder from:		Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
Title:		After every Kalends, Nones, Ides, the next day is "Ater"
Date:		Saturday April 2, 2011
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every month.
Notes:		Ater (unlucky) *Gods or Goddesses should not be invoked by name while indoors, and no celestial God or Goddess should be invoked by name while outdoors. *Sacrifices should not be made, even at the lararium. *These days are ill-omened to begin any new project since any new project would necessarily begin by performing a rite calling for the assistance of the gods. Such religious rites, beginning something new, are not to be performed. *Avoid making journeys, or doing anything risky.
Get reminders on your mobile, Yahoo! Messenger, and email. Edit reminder options

Copyright © 2011  Yahoo! Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy

Avete Omnes,

One of the matters I strove to have created when I became CFO of Nova Roma
was the creation of an oversight committee. While traditionally senators
held the position, I want to broaden it by including members of Nova Roma
who are not senators. Preferable not holding other positions like
magisterial positions or in particular multiple positions. I would also
prefer individuals who have accounting/finance and/or fundraising
experiences. This would not be an observational only type of position, but
one of interaction and involvement. While at first there might not be much
to do, over the course of the coming months 2-3 hours a week or more might
be needed. If you have the time and want to serve. Here is your chance.
Please email me privately @ robert.woolwine@....

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Scholasticae s.d.

> > ATS: Um, probably eis tén polin, accusative...for polis is nominative,and eis, being a normal Greek preposition, does not govern the nominative.

Yes, "eis tén poliN" = ad/in+ acc..

This said, there is no "civilized" language, lol : Sami or Estonian is not less civilized than Greek or Quechua.

>> ATS: Our fount of languages, Avitus said that Arabic uses the predicate accusative rather than the predicate nominative...of course that is a Semitic language, not an Indo-European one, and rules differ.

The semitic languages generally "swallow" the verb "to be" at the affirmative present.
But there is, if I well remind, one case which requires the accusative, yes, when the verb "to be" designs the *fact of existing* of the subject, like in the examples : "Be stones and rocks!" or "When we will be bones and ashes, will we raise from the dead ?"
In these cases, the stones, rockes, bones and ashes must be put at the accusative.

>>ATS: And, given that Kalendae, like Nones and Ides, are plural, we >>might also say sunt. Idus sunt hodie...Kalendae sunt hodie...

Yes, absolutely ; I avoided this form, that I rather use, not to make things more complex. The aim is to assist our non-Latinists bettering up their Latin tools, not to Avitizing them.

>>e(x) kalendis decembribus 2763"(dative). :-)
>ATS: um, ablative,

Yes, *naturally* ; it is a lapsus calami : I was writing another letter, at the same time with its dative address form.

Vale,


Albucius csr

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > A. Tullia Scholastica iterum P. Memmio Albucio quiritibus bonae voluntatis
> > S.P.D.
> >
> >
> >
> > Salve Consul,
> >
> > One of our major qualities, as Novaromans, is optimism.
> >
> > Here, I am convinced that we will succeed soon in writing correctly our Latin
> > dates i.e. at the nominative. ;-)
> >
> > ATS: LOL!
> >
> > You remember that Dexter has already called your attention on the way to write
> > correctly the Ides of March : see :
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/83736
> >
> > For the Kalends, this is the same ! :-)
> >
> > I know that in our current national languages, we say "to-day", using in fact
> > a dative (same in French "au-jour-d'-hui", with "hui" coming from Latin
> > 'hodie'). This is the same odd deviation which has called Constantinople
> > "Istanbul", just because, when the Ottomans asked for the way of "the city",
> > the people living in the countryside answered them : "Eis tèn polis" (in Greek
> > "to the town").
> >
> > ATS: Um, probably eis tén polin, accusative...for polis is nominative,
> > and eis, being a normal Greek preposition, does not govern the nominative.
> > That sort of thing occurs in vernacular English, but not in civilized
> > languages such as Latin, Greek, and Sanskrit, to say nothing of German and
> > other languages...
> >
> > Here, let us thank Latin, which is more logical than our "modern" languages :
> > it says "hodie (= hoc dies) est Kalendae Apriles" which means "this day is the
> > kalendS April".
> >
> > ATS: And, given that Kalendae, like Nones and Ides, are plural, we might
> > also say sunt. Idus sunt hodie...Kalendae sunt hodie...
> >
> > In this sentence, you may see that you have a subject + verb "to be" +
> > predicate.

> > Like in most modern languages, when you have a form "A is B", B is always at
> > the same declension form, the nominative with the verb "to be".
> > When you say : "I am Tom", you do not say "I am to Tom", nor "My cat is to
> > black" for "My cat is black" !!
> >
> > ATS: Our fount of languages, Avitus, said that Arabic uses the predicate
> > accusative rather than the predicate nominative...of course that is a Semitic
> > language, not an Indo-European one, and rules differ.
> >
> > It is the same here. The small difficulty is with the declension of the name
> > of the month. In our current national languages, we say :
> > Kalends OF April. In Latin, the month "follows" the gender and case of the
> > "kalends" : as they are plural+1st case, April will be plural+1st case, so
> > Aprilis (nominative singular) will give AprilES.
> > It will be the same for all our months ending in -IS.
> >
> > So, to-day is Kalend-AE April-ES.
> >
> > If you want to be sure for the remaining months of this year, just ask one of
> > our latinists to help you making a short table including the Kalends, the
> > Nones and the Ides. It may be useful for you, and every official, also.
> >
> >
> > I suggest that you do not postpone... ad calendas graecas . ;-) (joke ; this
> > said, here you see that it is an accusative, for there is a notion of move in
> > "ad"). If you would like to say that you are mistaking since last Kal. of Dec.
> > 2010 (let us imagine), you would say : "Erro e(x) kalendis decembribus 2763"
> > (dative). :-)
> >
> > ATS: um, ablative, though they often look the same. E / ex governs the
> > ablative, being one of some ten or twelve Latin prepositions which take the
> > ablative rather than the accusative. Greek and German prepositions, of
> > course, can take any oblique case with a difference in meaning, but Latin is
> > so much simpler.
> >
> >
> > Vale sincerely Consul,
> >
> >
> > Albucius csr
> >
> > Vale, et valete.
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica P. Memmio Albucio quiritibus bonae voluntatis,
> praesertim Latinéloquentibus:
>
>
> Scholasticae s.d.
>
>>> > > ATS: Um, probably eis tén polin, accusative...for polis is
>>> nominative, and eis, being a normal Greek preposition, does not govern the
>>> nominative.
>
> Yes, "eis tén poliN" = ad/in+ acc..
>
> ATS2: Ita¹st.
>
> This said, there is no "civilized" language, lol : Sami or Estonian is not
> less civilized than Greek or Quechua.
>
> ATS2: Did you notice what I said about my own?
>
>>> >> ATS: Our fount of languages, Avitus said that Arabic uses the predicate
>>> accusative rather than the predicate nominative...of course that is a
>>> Semitic language, not an Indo-European one, and rules differ.
>
> The semitic languages generally "swallow" the verb "to be" at the affirmative
> present.
>
> ATS2: They must be hungry for existence.
>
>
> But there is, if I well remind, one case which requires the accusative, yes,
> when the verb "to be" designs the *fact of existing* of the subject, like in
> the examples : "Be stones and rocks!" or "When we will be bones and ashes,
> will we raise from the dead ?"
> In these cases, the stones, rockes, bones and ashes must be put at the
> accusative.
>
> ATS2: Are you studying Arabic in preparation for their conquest of
> Europe?
>
>>> >>ATS: And, given that Kalendae, like Nones and Ides, are plural, we
>>> >>might also say sunt. Idus sunt hodie...Kalendae sunt hodie...
>
> Yes, absolutely ; I avoided this form, that I rather use, not to make things
> more complex.
>
> ATS2: Yes; poor Cato is already suffering with regard to these matters.
> And some others, including the nature of an agenda item.
>
>
> The aim is to assist our non-Latinists bettering up their Latin tools, not to
> Avitizing them.
>
> ATS2: Oh, we Avitize a fair number of students every year, though
> unfortunately this year most of them are not citizens, and some want to keep
> as far as possible from NR. They won¹t even visit our nomenclature pages when
> the time comes for them to Latinize their names, as all of them are supposed
> to do. It seems, however, that the stock of the Italian version of the
> textbook is vanishing, and the students may encounter increasing difficulty in
> obtaining it. All the more reason to get going on obtaining the texts for the
> Latin classes, especially the Sermo ones. Sermo II is finished now, and Sermo
> I should be done in a month or two (instruction should end in about three
> weeks), so one should prepare.
>
>>> >>e(x) kalendis decembribus 2763"(dative). :-)
>> >ATS: um, ablative,
>
> Yes, *naturally* ; it is a lapsus calami : I was writing another letter, at
> the same time with its dative address form.
>
> ATS2: I blame the European method of ordering the cases. They put the
> dative and ablative next to one another instead of separating them by the
> accusative, as is proper. No wonder there is such confusion! ;-)
>
> Vale,
>
> Albucius csr
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > A. Tullia Scholastica iterum P. Memmio Albucio quiritibus bonae
>>> voluntatis
>>> > > S.P.D.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Salve Consul,
>>> > >
>>> > > One of our major qualities, as Novaromans, is optimism.
>>> > >
>>> > > Here, I am convinced that we will succeed soon in writing correctly our
>>> Latin
>>> > > dates i.e. at the nominative. ;-)
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: LOL!
>>> > >
>>> > > You remember that Dexter has already called your attention on the way to
>>> write
>>> > > correctly the Ides of March : see :
>>> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/83736
>>> > >
>>> > > For the Kalends, this is the same ! :-)
>>> > >
>>> > > I know that in our current national languages, we say "to-day", using in
>>> fact
>>> > > a dative (same in French "au-jour-d'-hui", with "hui" coming from Latin
>>> > > 'hodie'). This is the same odd deviation which has called Constantinople
>>> > > "Istanbul", just because, when the Ottomans asked for the way of "the
>>> city",
>>> > > the people living in the countryside answered them : "Eis tèn polis" (in
>>> Greek
>>> > > "to the town").
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Um, probably eis tén polin, accusative...for polis is
>>> nominative,
>>> > > and eis, being a normal Greek preposition, does not govern the
>>> nominative.
>>> > > That sort of thing occurs in vernacular English, but not in civilized
>>> > > languages such as Latin, Greek, and Sanskrit, to say nothing of German

and

>>> > > other languages...
>>> > >
>>> > > Here, let us thank Latin, which is more logical than our "modern"
>>> languages :
>>> > > it says "hodie (= hoc dies) est Kalendae Apriles" which means "this day
>>> is the
>>> > > kalendS April".
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: And, given that Kalendae, like Nones and Ides, are plural, we
>>> might
>>> > > also say sunt. Idus sunt hodie...Kalendae sunt hodie...
>>> > >
>>> > > In this sentence, you may see that you have a subject + verb "to be" +
>>> > > predicate.
>
>>> > > Like in most modern languages, when you have a form "A is B", B is
>>> always at
>>> > > the same declension form, the nominative with the verb "to be".
>>> > > When you say : "I am Tom", you do not say "I am to Tom", nor "My cat is

to

>>> > > black" for "My cat is black" !!
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: Our fount of languages, Avitus, said that Arabic uses the
>>> predicate
>>> > > accusative rather than the predicate nominative...of course that is a
>>> Semitic
>>> > > language, not an Indo-European one, and rules differ.
>>> > >
>>> > > It is the same here. The small difficulty is with the declension of the
>>> name
>>> > > of the month. In our current national languages, we say :
>>> > > Kalends OF April. In Latin, the month "follows" the gender and case of

the

>>> > > "kalends" : as they are plural+1st case, April will be plural+1st case,

so

>>> > > Aprilis (nominative singular) will give AprilES.
>>> > > It will be the same for all our months ending in -IS.
>>> > >
>>> > > So, to-day is Kalend-AE April-ES.
>>> > >
>>> > > If you want to be sure for the remaining months of this year, just ask
>>> one of
>>> > > our latinists to help you making a short table including the Kalends,

the

>>> > > Nones and the Ides. It may be useful for you, and every official, also.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > I suggest that you do not postpone... ad calendas graecas . ;-) (joke
>>> ; this
>>> > > said, here you see that it is an accusative, for there is a notion of
>>> move in
>>> > > "ad"). If you would like to say that you are mistaking since last Kal.
>>> of Dec.
>>> > > 2010 (let us imagine), you would say : "Erro e(x) kalendis decembribus
>>> 2763"
>>> > > (dative). :-)
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS: um, ablative, though they often look the same. E / ex governs

the

>>> > > ablative, being one of some ten or twelve Latin prepositions which take

the

>>> > > ablative rather than the accusative. Greek and German prepositions, of
>>> > > course, can take any oblique case with a difference in meaning, but
>>> Latin is
>>> > > so much simpler.
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale sincerely Consul,
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > Albucius csr
>>> > >
>>> > > Vale, et valete.
>>> > >
>>> > >

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius A. Scholasticae s.p.d.,

>> ATS: Our fount of languages, Avitus said that Arabic uses the predicate accusative

CPD: He must read that somewhere...

> > ATS2: Are you studying Arabic in preparation for their conquest of Europe?

CPD: This sort of fantasy is more an evidence of fear based on ignorance than on truth of the facts. This kind of ignorance is very dangerous and may lead to Buschenwald, Daschau... Arabs do not conquest Europe but some European managers need workers being paid peanuts, as Arabs and Blacks from Africa, Romanians or others from East Europe. Those poor men are not conquering Europe but they are modern slaves or citizens of second class. I think you know the same thing with your Mexicans and Latinos. USA are they conquered by Latinos or Mexicans?

> > ATS2: Oh, we Avitize a fair number of students every year,

CPD: Apparently it is not a success. Perhaps do have we to change those current Latin courses which do not make NR citizens more Latin practitioners.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. IV Nonas Apriles P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> C. Petronius A. Scholasticae s.p.d.,
>
>>> >> ATS: Our fount of languages, Avitus said that Arabic uses the predicate
>>> accusative
>
> CPD: He must read that somewhere...
>
> ATS3: No, I suspect that he taught himself some Arabic. He started in on
> Romanian before having to stop to deal with other things. He loves languages,
> and absorbs them like a sponge. Only 15 so far.
>
>>> > > ATS2: Are you studying Arabic in preparation for their conquest of
>>> Europe?
>
> CPD: This sort of fantasy is more an evidence of fear based on ignorance than
> on truth of the facts. This kind of ignorance is very dangerous and may lead
> to Buschenwald, Daschau... Arabs do not conquest Europe but some European
> managers need workers being paid peanuts, as Arabs and Blacks from Africa,
> Romanians or others from East Europe. Those poor men are not conquering Europe
> but they are modern slaves or citizens of second class. I think you know the
> same thing with your Mexicans and Latinos. USA are they conquered by Latinos
> or Mexicans?
>
> ATS3: Maybe. Their birthrate is rather high...and some of our local
> Arabs were arrested for terrorist activities, and another beheaded his wife
> after stabbing her several dozen times. Charming fellow.
>
>>> > > ATS2: Oh, we Avitize a fair number of students every year,
>
> CPD: Apparently it is not a success. Perhaps do have we to change those
> current Latin courses which do not make NR citizens more Latin practitioners.
>
> ATS3: Well, most students in the Sermo classes are not Roman citizens.
> In fact, they are downright opposed to that, and have very wrong ideas about
> NR, about reenactment, about many, many things. This year there is not a
> single Roman citizen in Sermo I or Sermo II, and only one in Sermo Combined
> and two in Grammatica I (three if Caeca had been able to finish the course).
> The Grammatica students tend to be Roman citizens, but the classes are small,
> and again many are not citizens, or are not active citizens.
>
> By way of example, of the five students who completed the Assimil course
> with Avitus in its first year, I am the only active citizen, though one is
> consularis (Astur) and another used to be very active (Cordus). Both are fine
> Latinists, and Astur could talk your ear off in Latin or English as well as
> his native Spanish. Other graduates include several citizens (and Latinists),
> but of them only Lentulus is active. More citizens should take the Latin
> courses, but due to shyness or the demands of their personal lives or
> whatever, they do not practice Latin. Of course it does not help when people
> here are shot down for using Latin; that must stop.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. IV Nonas Apriles P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

Optime vale!

>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem IV Nones Aprilis; hic dies fastus aterque est.

"When the night is past, and the sky is just beginning
To redden, and the birds, wet with dew, are singing,
And the traveller who's been awake all night, puts down
His half-burnt torch, and the farmer's off to his usual labours,
The Pleiades will start to lighten their father's shoulders,
They who are said to be seven, but usually are six:
Because it's true that six lay in the loving clasp of gods
(Since they say that Asterope slept with Mars:
Alcyone, and you, lovely Celaeno, with Neptune:
Maia, Electra, and Taygete with Jupiter),
While the seventh, Merope, married you, Sisyphus, a mortal,
And repents of it, and, alone of the sisters, hides from shame:
Or because Electra couldn't bear to watch Troy's destruction,
And so her face now is covered by her hands." - Ovid, Fasti IV

"And so soon as he had cut off the members with flint and cast them
from the land into the surging sea, they were swept away over the main
a long time: and a white foam spread around them from the immortal
flesh, and in it there grew a maiden...and came forth an awful and
lovely goddess, and grass grew up about her beneath her shapely feet.
Her gods and men call Aphrodite...because she grew amid the foam." -
Hesiod, Theogony, 185 -200

"At the wedding, Eris (Strife) threw a golden apple into the midst of
the guests. The apple bore the inscription 'for the fairest' a quarrel
arose among Hera, Athena, and Aphrodite, with each goddess claiming
the apple for herself. Eventually, they agreed to make Paris, a Trojan
prince, arbiter of their dispute. All three goddesses offered Paris
bribes; Aphrodite promised the most beautiful woman on Earth as his
wife--this was Helen, wife of Menelaus, ruler of Sparta. Paris awarded
the apple to Aphrodite and proceeded to abduct Helen." - Fritz Graf,
"Greek Mythology: An Introduction" pp.59-60

The derivation of the name of the month of Aprilis is uncertain. The
traditional etymology from the Latin aperire, "to open," in allusion
to its being the season when trees and flowers begin to "open." Since
all the Roman months were named in honour of divinities, and as April
was sacred to Venus, the Festum Veneris et Fortunae Virilis being held
on the first day, it has been suggested that Aprilis was originally
her month Aphrilis, from her Greek name Aphrodite, or from the
Etruscan name Apru.

The poet Hesiod said that Aphrodite was born from sea-foam. Homer, on
the other hand, said that she was the daughter of Zeus and Dione.

When the Trojan prince Paris was asked to judge which of three
Olympian goddesses was the most beautiful, he chose Aphrodite over
Hera and Athena. The latter two had hoped to bribe him with power and
victory in battle, but Aphrodite offered the love of the most
beautiful woman in the world --- Helen of Sparta, who became infamous
as Helen of Troy when Paris subsequently eloped with her. In the
ensuing Trojan War, Hera and Athena were implacable enemies of Troy
while Aphrodite was loyal to Paris and the Trojans.

Aphrodite was very generous in using her powers to help her followers.
She helped Meilanion gain Atalanta for his wife by giving him the
golden apples that enabled him to distract and overtake Atalanta in a
foot race. She had her son Eros strike Medea with one of his arrows so
that she would fall in love with Jason of the Argonauts, which
resulted in his overcoming her father Aeetes and gaining the Golden
Fleece. She also cared for the orphaned daughters of Panderos and
arranged for their marriages.

In other instances, Aphrodite avenged other slights by causing the
perpetrator to experience misfortune in the areas of love or beauty.
After being insulted by six of Poseidon's sons, she struck them mad so
that they gang-raped their mother. She caused Aegus to be childless
until he introduced her worship in Athens. When the women of
Astypalaea angered her by claiming to be more beautiful than she, she
made them grow cow horns. Moo.

Perhaps the most celebrated of Aphrodite's affairs was her
relationship with Ares, the god of war. Although such a union may at
first seem incongruous, it is actually a match of two divinities of
the same nature. Aphrodite, the beautiful maiden who attracts the
attention of the most powerful of the gods only to decline him,
refuses to be controlled by her marriage to Hephaestus--she will not
be denied freedom in the area of her dominion. Likewise Ares, an
alternately rageful and cowardly god, can never be predicted in his
actions.

Aphrodite's rebellious nature is reinforced by the creation of many
children by her liason with Ares. In addition, Phobos and Deimos,
Anteros, and Harmonia were even passed off as the offspring of
Hephaestus.

The ancient travel writer Pausanias describes a number of statues of
Aphrodite dressed for battle, many of them in Sparta. Given the manner
in which the militaristic Spartans raised their girls, it is not
surprising that they conceived of a female goddess in military attire.
She also would have donned armaments to defend cities, such as
Corinth, who adopted her as their patroness. This is not to say that
she was a war goddess, although some have seen her as such and find
significance in her pairing with the war god Ares in mythology and
worship.

Valete bene!

Cato

L. Livia Plauta A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.

>
> ATS2: I blame the European method of ordering the cases. They put
> the
> dative and ablative next to one another instead of separating them by the
> accusative, as is proper. No wonder there is such confusion! ;-)
>

I believe we've had this discussion before: for me the order of nominative,
genitive, dative, accusative, vocative, ablative is "proper". It was good
for me, my father, my grandfather, my great-grandfather, and all the
generations before them.
And you can notice that dative and ablative are separated by both accusative
and vocative.
The truth is that there was no rational motivation to change the order used
by Latin grammarians, because no order is inherently better than another.

Optime vale,
Livia

Liviae Scholasticae Dextro omn.que s.d.

And here we see that there is no truth, but just countries or cultural habits.

We see (lol) that we are just 3, including 2 Europeans, and already 3 methods :

ATS : ...dative/accusative/ablative
LLP : N/G/D/Ac/V/Ab
PMA : N/V/Ac/G/D/Ab (i suppose GPD's one is the same one + same order for Greek, minus ablative).

Livia is right : there is no perfect logical, and there is no reason why a method which seems sound for ourselves and families over generations should be changed.

Valete et omnes,


Albucius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "L. Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>
> L. Livia Plauta A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.
> >
> > ATS2: I blame the European method of ordering the cases. They put
> > the
> > dative and ablative next to one another instead of separating them by the
> > accusative, as is proper. No wonder there is such confusion! ;-)
> >
> I believe we've had this discussion before: for me the order of nominative,
> genitive, dative, accusative, vocative, ablative is "proper". It was good
> for me, my father, my grandfather, my great-grandfather, and all the
> generations before them.
> And you can notice that dative and ablative are separated by both accusative
> and vocative.
> The truth is that there was no rational motivation to change the order used
> by Latin grammarians, because no order is inherently better than another.
>
> Optime vale,
> Livia
>

Salve Scholastica !

>>ATS2: Are you studying Arabic in preparation for their conquest of
>>Europe?

Lol... i was going to answer by a joke, telling you that they had yet, and that's why I know some Arabic. ;-)

Seriously, the relations with Arab countries is a complex one, in Europe. Dexter has well given the most relevant element for the 20th century. There is at the same time previous colonial links and centuries of tensions around Jerusalem (crusades, etc.). Towards that, there is also geography and history, which remind ppl that their destiny is interdependant.

On the violence, it is generally the result of lower education, poverty and ghettoisation: Arabs have no monopoly.
Just think of the casualties due in... some countries to the free purchase of weapons etc..
In a more and more complex world (ah, the good ol'time of Cold War !) where the biggest part of the planet just longs for food and decent life, when you can leave your "middle-ages" village and land in a wealthy capital the next day while our families spent centuries to skip the gap, I am afraid that we have to live with such recurrent internal and outside fundamentalists people who will always find a good reason for some "holy war".

On birthrates, you know, this is, generally, the common characteristic of poor an uneducated population, or of cultures linked to religions who forbid or discourage abortions. Just take a Latin-American, an Italian-American or an Irish one : i'm not sure that you would be that far : Catholiscism and Islam are not different on this point.

Last, serious studies have shown that the "immigrants", whatever their origin, tend to adapt their "fertility" after 2-3 generations inside the settlement country.


Vale,


Albucius

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "A. Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:


> > CPD: This sort of fantasy is more an evidence of fear based on ignorance than
> > on truth of the facts. This kind of ignorance is very dangerous and may lead
> > to Buschenwald, Daschau... Arabs do not conquest Europe but some European
> > managers need workers being paid peanuts, as Arabs and Blacks from Africa,
> > Romanians or others from East Europe. Those poor men are not conquering Europe
> > but they are modern slaves or citizens of second class. I think you know the
> > same thing with your Mexicans and Latinos. USA are they conquered by Latinos
> > or Mexicans?

>> ATS3: Maybe. Their birthrate is rather high...and some of >>our local Arabs were arrested for terrorist activities, and another >>beheaded his wife after stabbing her several dozen times. Charming >>fellow.

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica P. Memmio Albucio L. Liviae Plautae C. Petronio Dextro
> quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> Liviae Scholasticae Dextro omn.que s.d.
>
> And here we see that there is no truth, but just countries or cultural habits.
>
> We see (lol) that we are just 3, including 2 Europeans, and already 3 methods
> :
>
> ATS : ...dative/accusative/ablative
>
> ATS2: Actually, nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, ablative,
> vocative (when present). We use the modern Greek method of opinion research:
> four people, five (or more) opinions.
>
>
> LLP : N/G/D/Ac/V/Ab
> PMA : N/V/Ac/G/D/Ab (i suppose GPD's one is the same one + same order for
> Greek, minus ablative).
>
> ATS2: Well, we could always add some of those Greek extras, and then
> Sanskrit has a lovely instrumental, as well as a full set of duals...Old
> English is blessed with a fine set of declensions, too, with four cases, but
> there is little logic in the patterns. Mater Althochdeutsch was apparently
> far less logical than either Latin or Greek.
>
>
> Livia is right : there is no perfect logical, and there is no reason why a
> method which seems sound for ourselves and families over generations should be
> changed.
>
> ATS2: The good old system I learned makes the best sense to me, though
> the neo-Britannus Avitus and the native Crispus prefer the dative alongside
> the ablative. Confusion city, if you ask me. Some of these weirdo modern
> Latin methods (Cambridge Latin Series, and probably other similar ones) teach
> the accusative first after the nominative, which makes some sense...but they
> also do not teach the paradigms as such at all, and teach only one meaning per
> word. And they wonder why the students don¹t learn anything? Di boni!
>
> Valete et omnes,
>
> Albucius
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "L.
> Livia Plauta" <livia.plauta@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > L. Livia Plauta A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.
>>> > >
>>> > > ATS2: I blame the European method of ordering the cases. They put
>>> > > the
>>> > > dative and ablative next to one another instead of separating them by

the

>>> > > accusative, as is proper. No wonder there is such confusion! ;-)
>>> > >
>> > I believe we've had this discussion before: for me the order of nominative,
>> > genitive, dative, accusative, vocative, ablative is "proper". It was good
>> > for me, my father, my grandfather, my great-grandfather, and all the
>> > generations before them.
>> > And you can notice that dative and ablative are separated by both
>> accusative
>> > and vocative.
>> > The truth is that there was no rational motivation to change the order used
>> > by Latin grammarians, because no order is inherently better than another.
>> >
>> > Optime vale,
>> > Livia
>> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> Salve, Albuci, et salvete, quirites bonae voluntatis.
>
>
>
> Salve Scholastica !
>
>>> >>ATS2: Are you studying Arabic in preparation for their conquest of
>>> >>Europe?
>
> Lol... i was going to answer by a joke, telling you that they had yet, and
> that's why I know some Arabic. ;-)
>
> ATS3: Gee, I thought Muzzamil Hassan, wife-beheader, had engaged you as
> counsel. He¹s already gone through about half a dozen attorneys, and no doubt
> didn¹t like the verdict in his trial. Your linguistic gifts might serve him
> well. ;-)
>
>
> Seriously, the relations with Arab countries is a complex one, in Europe.
> Dexter has well given the most relevant element for the 20th century. There is
> at the same time previous colonial links and centuries of tensions around
> Jerusalem (crusades, etc.). Towards that, there is also geography and history,
> which remind ppl that their destiny is interdependant.
>
> ATS3: Hey, they want Spain, etc., back. Now. Maybe even if they don¹t
> have oil. Watch out if they get interested in perfume, haute couture, or
> haute cuisine...
>
>
>
> On the violence, it is generally the result of lower education, poverty and
> ghettoisation: Arabs have no monopoly.
>
> ATS3: No...but the influence of visual media on the left cortex does not
> help.
>
>
> Just think of the casualties due in... some countries to the free purchase of
> weapons etc..
>
> ATS3: Hey, our agents are supposed to turn a blind eye when they get
> shipped to points south...
>
>
> In a more and more complex world (ah, the good ol'time of Cold War !)
>
> ATS3: Yes, but the Russkies had nukes... Let us pray certain parties
> don¹t.
>
>
> where the biggest part of the planet just longs for food and decent life,
> when you can leave your "middle-ages" village and land in a wealthy capital
> the next day while our families spent centuries to skip the gap,
>
> ATS3: Hasn¹t this been a commonplace for centuries, though, when poor
> rural folk would leave for the city in hopes of a better life?
>
>
> I am afraid that we have to live with such recurrent internal and outside
> fundamentalists people who will always find a good reason for some "holy war".
>
> ATS3: Of course. And when the cortex does not have enough circuitry to
> control the emotions, as in the case of certain individuals and in that of
> those exposed to visual media before full literacy is achieved, incitement to
> violence or holy war or what have you is a lot easier.
>
> On birthrates, you know, this is, generally, the common characteristic of poor
> an uneducated population, or of cultures linked to religions who forbid or
> discourage abortions. Just take a Latin-American, an Italian-American or an
> Irish one : i'm not sure that you would be that far : Catholiscism and Islam
> are not different on this point.
>
> ATS3: Over 51% of the population in my area is Roman Catholic, but I
> don¹t see any families of 12 or 14 children here...those are among the
> Protestants and maybe the Muslims. Maybe Latinos, too. Nonnumquam illae
> quorum aviti quondam eris erant aet. 12 pariunt, et postea saepius.
>
> Last, serious studies have shown that the "immigrants", whatever their origin,
> tend to adapt their "fertility" after 2-3 generations inside the settlement
> country.
>
> ATS3: And I have heard that cephalic index also changes from brachy to
> something rather different. Now why doesn¹t this fertility decrease work for
> other imports, such as the English (house) sparrow? They have yet to adjust
> their fertility downward after all these decades, preferring to produce a
> couple of football teams worth of offspring every year...crowding out our nice
> native birdies...
>
> Vale,
>
> Albucius
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>
>>> > > CPD: This sort of fantasy is more an evidence of fear based on ignorance
>>> than
>>> > > on truth of the facts. This kind of ignorance is very dangerous and may
>>> lead
>>> > > to Buschenwald, Daschau... Arabs do not conquest Europe but some
>>> European
>>> > > managers need workers being paid peanuts, as Arabs and Blacks from
>>> Africa,
>>> > > Romanians or others from East Europe. Those poor men are not conquering
>>> Europe
>>> > > but they are modern slaves or citizens of second class. I think you know

the

>>> > > same thing with your Mexicans and Latinos. USA are they conquered by
>>> Latinos
>>> > > or Mexicans?
>
>>> >> ATS3: Maybe. Their birthrate is rather high...and some of >>our
>>> local Arabs were arrested for terrorist activities, and another >>beheaded
>>> his wife after stabbing her several dozen times. Charming >>fellow.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Cn. Cornelio Lentulo quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> Congratulations to all participants and to the creator of this wonderful
> certamen! I note with pleasure that the second-place winner, M. Martianius
> Lupus, completed the Grammatica Latina II course a few years ago, and despite
> the passage of time still remembered enough to do very well in this
> competition. Already another competitor, V. Valerius Volusus, has expressed a
> desire to take the Grammatica I course when we resume in late August. Several
> others (non-citizens) have informed me that they would like to take Sermo.
> Within a few weeks, I shall be able to register students in the first semester
> Grammatica I course; I won¹t even have to correct the exam before I can do
> that, for the current course is on a different web page. However, the
> students must be able to have access to that page, and I cannot register
> anyone until they have completed their final examination.
>
> Those who read the certamen questions have already seen nearly everything
> Latin grammar can throw at the learner, and not even all of that is covered in
> the introductory traditional-method Grammatica course. I¹m sure Lentulus will
> join with me in encouraging you to register for one of our Latin courses, or
> at least for the background Rudimenta one (if we find someone to teach it); it
> might not be easy, but you won¹t regret it. He has done exemplary work in
> presenting far more grammar to you in much less time than does Professor
> Wheelock; if you digested any of it, you should have a leg up on any Latin
> course work.
>
> Macte virtute!
>
>
>
>
> SALVETE, QUIRITES!
>
> Please accept our apologies for the delay, but now, at least, we have all the
> final results of the 10 sets of questions of the Ludi Novi Romani - Certamen
> Latinum.
>
> You can see all answers for Question # 9 and Question # 10 below, following
> the links. You are free, and outright encourage to ask why this or that
> solution was deemed bad or good, and you are invited to send me questions
> regarding the grammar practiced in this Certamen Latinum, put your questions
> either privately or publicly, as you like.
>
> ANSWERS TO QUESTION 9
>
> See all answers to Question # 9 on our website:
>
> http://novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXIV/Certamen_Latinum#Answers_9
>
> ANSWERS TO QUESTION 10
>
> See all answers to Question # 10 on our website:
>
> http://novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXIV/Certamen_Latinum#Answers_10
>
>  
> BEFORE ANNOUNCING THE WINNER...
>  
> Before the announcement of the name of the winner, I would like to say some
> words of thanks to all those brave and deeply Roman women and men who
> participated in the Certamen Latinum, and thus served Nova Roma and the cause
> of the Roman Revivalist Movement by the most precious thing: with their
> efforts of learning. The more you learn about Roman culture, the better New
> Roman you are. There is no "Rome reborn", there is no "Roman revival"
> without your efforts of learning Latin, learning Roman identity and culture.
> We can go out as Romans even without Latin, and many of our citizens
> contribute wonderful imputs into Nova Roma through their other Roman talents.
>  
> If you can't learn Latin: fine! But do your best in another path of immersion
> into Roman culture. If you are afraid of Latin, or if you feel you can not put
> energy into it, or if you think you are for some reason unable to learn it,
> just play with it. Give it a try. Just try to decline one word every half
> year. There will come the day when you see it is not impossible.
>  
> Here we were wittnesses of some kind of miracle. The Certamen Latinum lasted
> 10 days, and, although I ensured the participants we would not do serious
> grammar just a bit "tasting" how Latin feels, and smells, in fact, WE WENT
> THROUGH basically ALL LATIN GRAMMAR that exists, and in 10 days, IN JUST 10
> DAYS!
>  
> Men and women, everywhere!
>  
> It is possible! You can go through all Latin grammar within 10 days, and you
> can see this language is so logic and so easily learnable, that you can
> understand all facets of it in 10 days, even just by answering some Nova Roma
> quiz questions. We have 8 wittnesses to confirm what I am saying: Caninus,
> Caupo, Demetria, Lupus, Placidus, Popillia, Silvanus, Volusus. All did
> wonderfully well in this Latin Contest, and all of them were amazed to realize
> that we did in fact go through almost all facets of Latin language.
>  
> Let us all praise Caninus, Caupo, Demetria, Lupus, Placidus, Popillia,
> Silvanus and Volusus, who worked hard, and walked with me from day to day in
> this path of Latin grammar, from the simple rules of handling the dictionary,
> up to the Indirect Speech, Accusative with Infinitive and Subjunctive.
>  
> Special recognitions are due to Caninus, Caupo, Lupus and Placidus, who worked
> the hardest, and answered almost every question, especially and above all, to
> Lupus and Placidus who answered all questions, without exception.
>  
> Caninus, Caupo, Demetria, Lupus, Placidus, Popillia, Silvanus, Volusus: you
> all have won, you all have won glory, experience, and knowledge, and you all
> have became more Roman, and there is NO higher prize, NO better score, NO
> bigger victory, than becoming Roman.
>  
> AND NOW, let's see the name of the WINNER, who get the PRIZE which is three
> pieces of Nova Roman brass sestertii, that will be sent to the winner's home
> address.
>  
> AND NOW, FINALLY, THE WINNER IS...:
>  
> 10...
>  
> 9...
>  
> 8...
>  
> 7...
>  
> 6...
>  
> 5...
>  
> 4...
>  
> 3...
>  
> 2...
>  
> 1...
>  
> ...AND THE WINNER OF TH CERTAMEN LATINUM OF THE LUDI NOVI ROMANI, CELEBRATING
> THE 13TH BIRTHDAY OF NOVA ROMA, IS:
>  
>  
>  
> I. ***_P. Annaeus Constantinus Placidus_***,
>  
> from Italia Nova Romana!
>  
>  
>  
> CONGRATULATION TO THE WINNER, T. ANNAEUS CONSTANTINUS PALCIDUS!!!
>  
>  
>  
> P. Annaeus Constantinus Placidus did an incredible job, and he lost almost no
> points during the tests. He can really call himself as a good Latinist from
> now on. Congratulations to Placidus, excellent citizen of Nova Roma.
>  
> P. Annaeus Constantinus Placidus gets the prize, the 3 Nova Roman sestertii,
> described here:
>  
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Sestertius_signum
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Coin_%28Nova_Roma%29
>  
>  
> Congratulations are due to the second and third places, too, who did nearly as
> well as Placidus.
>  
>  
> THE SECOND BEST of the Certamen Latinum of the Ludi Novi Romani, celebrating
> the 13th birthday of Nova Roma, is:
>  
> II. **_M. Martianius Lupus_**
>  
> CONGRATULATIONS TO LUPUS FOR HIS EXCELLENT RESULTS!
>  
>  
> THE THIRD BEST of the Certamen Latinum of the Ludi Novi Romani, celebrating
> the 13th birthday of Nova Roma, is:
>  
> III. *_M. Pompeius Caninus_*
>  
> CONGRATULATIONS TO CANINUS FOR HIS FINE ACHIEVEMENT!
>  
>  
> And now, let's see all final results of all participants, and congratulate
> them all!
>  
>  
> FINAL RANKINGS - FINAL  RESULTS
>  
> Maximum score of points available was: 520 pts.
>
> 1st - P. Annaeus Constantinus Placidus - 499 pts; (Participated in all 10
> questions)
> 2nd - M. Martianius Lupus - 477 pts; (Participated in all 10 questions)
> 3rd - M. Pompeius Caninus - 270 pts;  (Participated in 8 questions)
> 4th - V. Valerius Volusus - 262 pts; (Participated in 5 questions)
> 5th - L. Lucretius Caupo - 193 pts; (Participated in 5 questions)
> 6th - Demetria of Chicago - 86 pts; (Participated in 4 questions)
> 7th - T. Octavius Silvanus - 76 pts; (Participated in 2 questions)
> 8th - T. Popillia Laenas - 47 pts; (Participated in 1 question)
>
> During most of the race, Placidus was first, sometimes shared with Lupus, as
> at the beginning Lupus obtained first place, soon shared, later occupied by
> the final winner Placidus. Incredible struggle and fight! Both men are of the
> highest virtue!
> A big surprise to the end, that Volusus left behind Caupo, who could not
> answer the last questions. Huge "hurrays" are dute to Volusus, and our
> admiration goes for him!
> Demetria of Chicago, our bravest and most Roman peregrina, left behind T.
> Octavius Silvanus, which was a very big thing from her! Fought wonderfully,
> appreciation and a place in Nova Roma's ludi hiistory is now being tributed to
> her.
> I am very sorry for Caninus who had the chance to become even first, but he
> had to leave the race in the last two rounds, as private life demanded on him.
> Another great and fighter in the race of Latinists was Caupo, an excellent
> contestant, who similarly to Caninus, had an immediate occupation that did not
> allow him to finish last questions. He could have been one of the first three
> places, though!
> Silvanus and Popillia show that it was worth participating even in one or two
> questions, because the evidence that they did for Nova Roma, and that they did
> for their Latin, which is part of OUR COMMON Nova Roman Latin, is there,
> forever! They did their part of duty in Nova Roma!
>  
> AND FINALLY...
>  
> THANK YOU, ALL, once again, who participated!
>  
> THANK YOU, ALL, who observed the race and who followed these posts.
>  
> I would like to see your questions, doubts or comments, either in private or
> public, and I would like to encourage all of my fellow citizens that you, too,
> participate next time!
>  
>  
> CURATE UT VALEATIS LATINISSE QUOD EST ROMANISSE!  
>
> Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
> scriba aedilicius etc.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Liviae Plautae s.p.d.,

> I believe we've had this discussion before: for me the order of nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, vocative, ablative is "proper".

It is the order of Donatus:
"- casus nominum quot sunt?
- sex.
- qui?
- nominatiuus, genetiuus, datiuus, accusatiuus, uocatiuus, ablatiuus."

I do not know if it is proper, but it is the most ancient.

In France we learn Latin with the order:
Nominative
Vocative
Accusative
Genitive
Dative
Ablative

And we have great latinists, many of them wrote/write original books in Latin as some philosophers, historians... and now some French people on Internet, so our method is not improper to make modern Galli good Latin writers.

Perhaps instead of "we have" now I have to write "we had" because the Sarkozy's government in order to obtain its "3 A" in the economical notations wants to make an end to the classics learning, "too expensive for nothing"... now the Greek and the Latin is near their ending for a profit teaching of Chinese and English languages.

It is not economical to be the country of the culture and of the Human rights... and as our politicians are obsessed by the economics, the people must become stupid and incult in order to make richer the richest.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. III Nonas Apriles P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

C. Petronius Tulliae Scholasticae s.p.d.,

> ATS3: He loves languages,and absorbs them like a sponge. Only 15 so far.<

CPD 2: Lol. It is worst I thought... Your Avitus looks like Panurge in Pantagruel of Rabelais, speaking all languages but perfectly knowing none. I remember the Seneca sentence: "Who is everywhere is nowhere."

> > ATS3: Maybe. Their birthrate is rather high...and some of our local Arabs were arrested for terrorist activities, and another beheaded his wife after stabbing her several dozen times. Charming fellow.

CPD 2: All Arabs are not terrorists. I know that our "democracies" have preferred that tyrans govern those countries for preventing Islamic terrorism, but it was a wrong issue. The best weapons against terrorism are the human sciences' teaching for everybody and a fair sharing of the national wealths. In Europe their way of life had changed and the Islam radicalism of few people often comes from new converts into Islam, because of a natural zeal for them to be more Arabs than the Arabs, or from imams not born in Europe but coming from their countries.

More of all that, in France we do not have the same integration politic than Anglo Saxon's one. For us, everybody born in France can become French people, we do not have a sort of communautarism politic and the majority of our citizens do not want the Anglo Saxon communautarism which, according to the prime minister Cameron, is a failure. A politic which put the indigenes of a continent into little reserves is not our way of life. For us a good Indian is not a dead Indian.

But our way is not easy because many people in France also would like the communautarism as the solution for making acceptable the ghettoism problems... in fact, the ghettoism is an evidence of the failure of our integration system, but because this system were bit by bit left to the profit of the Anglo-Saxon's communautarism. Our politicians often think that elsewhere is better.

> > ATS3: Well, most students in the Sermo classes are not Roman citizens.<<

CPD 2: That must be changed if we want a real use of the Latin as our language. We cannot be a serious reenacment Roman organization if we do not promote the using of the Latin as our common language.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. III Nonas Apriles P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus S.P.D.
>
>
>
> C. Petronius Tulliae Scholasticae s.p.d.,
>
>> > ATS3: He loves languages,and absorbs them like a sponge. Only 15 so far.<
>
> CPD 2: Lol. It is worst I thought... Your Avitus looks like Panurge in
> Pantagruel of Rabelais, speaking all languages but perfectly knowing none. I
> remember the Seneca sentence: "Who is everywhere is nowhere."
>
> ATS4: That does not appear to be the case with Avitus. He really does
> know those languages. His mom taught him Spanish and / or Catalan; he now
> lives in London, where he has lived for decades, and by compulsion must speak
> English (the Britanni seem less tolerant of these things than we Americans
> are; here everything is in a dozen or more languages, but at Heathrow, only
> English was to be found, and that, too, during a terrorist alert). He writes
> quite well in French and apparently in Italian as well as in Latin; I cannot
> judge the rest, or, for that matter, his Italian. Some people do have this
> ability; word has it that Schliemann did, and he was (and is) not alone.
>
>
>>> > > ATS3: Maybe. Their birthrate is rather high...and some of our
>>> local Arabs were arrested for terrorist activities, and another beheaded his
>>> wife after stabbing her several dozen times. Charming fellow.
>
> CPD 2: All Arabs are not terrorists.
>
> ATS4: Of course not.
>
>
> I know that our "democracies" have preferred that tyrans govern those
> countries for preventing Islamic terrorism, but it was a wrong issue. The best
> weapons against terrorism are the human sciences' teaching for everybody and a
> fair sharing of the national wealths. In Europe their way of life had changed
> and the Islam radicalism of few people often comes from new converts into
> Islam, because of a natural zeal for them to be more Arabs than the Arabs, or
> from imams not born in Europe but coming from their countries.
>
> More of all that, in France we do not have the same integration politic than
> Anglo Saxon's one. For us, everybody born in France can become French people,
>
> ATS4: I believe that everyone born in the US is a US citizen, though they
> may choose another country at the age of majority if their parents were born
> elsewhere.
>
>
> we do not have a sort of communautarism politic and the majority of our
> citizens do not want the Anglo Saxon communautarism which, according to the
> prime minister Cameron, is a failure. A politic which put the indigenes of a
> continent into little reserves is not our way of life. For us a good Indian is
> not a dead Indian.
>
> ATS4: We don¹t think that way any more, either. However, quite possibly
> you did not encounter people who literally wanted your scalp. In my immediate
> area, the Indians (Iroquois Confederacy) apparently did not go in for that
> sort of thing, but elsewhere they did. If someone were headed for you with a
> raised tomahawk, you might consider him better dead, too, just as most
> soldiers consider their enemies better dead, disabled, or captured. Nowadays
> the Indians are doing quite well at casino operations and are buying up land
> for that purpose. After all, it¹s tax free in perpetuity (so long as they own
> it, anyway); they do not have to pay any taxes on anything, so can sell
> gasoline and poison (er, tobacco) and anything else tax free, and in some
> cases the revenue is shared with all tribe members. In the past the treatment
> of the Indians was indeed quite terrible; it was calculated to erase their
> languages and culture, but these days most of us realize that this behavior is
> inappropriate, and don¹t approve of these policies. Indians don¹t have to
> live on the reservations any more, though some prefer to, and others cannot
> afford to move; poverty is a big issue. Some are very wealthy, while others
> barely survive.
>
> CPD: But our way is not easy because many people in France also would like
> the communautarism as the solution for making acceptable the ghettoism
> problems... in fact, the ghettoism is an evidence of the failure of our
> integration system, but because this system were bit by bit left to the profit
> of the Anglo-Saxon's communautarism. Our politicians often think that
> elsewhere is better.
>
>>> > > ATS3: Well, most students in the Sermo classes are not Roman
>>> citizens.<<
>
> CPD 2: That must be changed if we want a real use of the Latin as our
> language. We cannot be a serious reenacment Roman organization if we do not
> promote the using of the Latin as our common language.
>
> ATS4: True, but Sermo is very difficult for those who do not know Latin
> already, especially since English lacks any meaningful arsenal of grammatical
> forms so students must learn the concept of using cases and such as well as
> learn the actual forms. All we have is a broken pocketknife, so to speak:
> -ing, -ed, -s/ -es... For years many of our schools have abandoned Latin
> (including the nearby one where I student-taught), and the students have to
> get some grounding before moving on to Sermo. That is one of the reasons why
> we have Grammatica, which uses a method some prefer to the assimilation method
> of Sermo. I bring in elements from Latin immersion and from modern Latin,
> especially in Grammatica II, so that they may proceed more easily to Sermo if
> they wish. Some find it difficult even so, and some are not pleased with
> elements of Avitus¹ personality which seep into his lessons and homework
> corrections even though someone else is teaching the course. Years ago,
> virtually all of the Sermo students were Roman citizens (the first course had
> ten members, five of whom completed what is now the Combined course: Astur,
> Augustus, Cordus, Serena, and myself), and several former officers of
> Latinitas, etc., took the course at the time Lentulus did, but now the
> majority are Spaniards and non-citizens. There is not a single NR citizen in
> Sermo I or Sermo II, and only one in Sermo Combined, though one other
> individual is on NewRoman and a couple are on Latinitas. All we can do is
> encourage them, but the fast pace of even the slower Sermo courses and the
> homework for Grammatica do demand a commitment from the students, one not all
> of them can fulfill despite their best efforts. That this is compounded by
> the unavailability of the Sermo sound files and even of the text does not help
> our efforts at recruiting students.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> Et tu!
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. III Nonas Apriles P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem III Nonas Aprilis; haec dies comitialis est.

"When Venus was first led to her eager spouse,
She drank so: and from that moment was a bride.
Please her with words of supplication: beauty,
Virtue, and good repute are in her keeping.
In our forefather's time Rome lapsed from chastity:
And the ancients consulted the old woman of Cumae.
She ordered a temple built to Venus: when it was done
Venus took the name of Heart-Changer (Verticordia).
Loveliest One, always look with a benign gaze
On the sons of Aeneas, and guard their many wives.
As I speak, Scorpio, the tip of whose raised tail
Strikes fear, plunges down into the green waves." - Ovid, Fasti IV

"There loomed before me a great painting of the goddess Venus in all
her glorious nudity, feet poised upon a seashell, her golden hair torn
by faint breezes, her dreamy gaze steady, her faithful attendants the
god Zephyr who blew the breezes which guided her landward, and a nymph
as beautiful as the goddess herself who welcomed her to the shore...I
looked at the perfect figure of venus again, covering her most
intimate secret with locks of her abundant hair. I looked at the nymph
with her outstretched hand and her voluminous garments. I looked on
the god Zephyr and the goddess with him, and all of the tiny details
of the painting came to reside in my mind. " - Marius de Romanus,
"Blood and Gold" pg. 228


Like other major Roman deities, Venus is ascribed a number of
epithets to refer to different aspects or roles of the goddess. Some
of the most famous are:

Venus Cloacina ("Venus the Purifier"), also known as Venus Cluacina,
is a fusion of Venus with the Etruscan water goddess Cloacina, likely
resulting from a statue of Venus being prominent near the Cloaca
Maxima, Rome's sewer system. The statue was erected on the spot where
peace was concluded between the Romans and Sabines.

Venus Erycina ("Venus from Eryx"), also called Venus Erucina,
originated on Mount Eryx in western Sicily. Temples were erected to
her on the Capitoline Hill and outside the Porta Collina.

Venus Felix ("Lucky Venus") is an epithet used for a temple on the
Esquiline Hill and for a temple constructed by Hadrian dedicated to
"Venus Felix et Roma Aeterna" ("Favorable Venus and Eternal Rome") on
the north side of the Via Sacra.

Venus Genetrix ("Mother Venus") is Venus in her role as the
ancestress of the Roman people, a goddess of motherhood and
domesticity. A festival was held in her honor on September 26. As
Venus was regarded as the mother of the Julian gens in particular,
Julius Caesar dedicated a temple to her in Rome.

Venus Libertina ("Venus the Freedwoman") is an epithet of Venus that
probably arose from an error, with Romans mistaking lubentina
(possibly meaning "pleasurable" or "passionate") for libertina.
Possibly related is Venus Libitina, also called Venus Libentina, Venus
Libentia, Venus Lubentina, Venus Lubentini and Venus Lubentia, an
epithet that probably arose from confusion between Libitina, a funeral
goddess, and the aforementioned lubentina, leading to an amalgamation
of Libitina and Venus. A temple was dedicated to Venus Libitina on the
Esquiline Hill.

Venus Obsequens ("Graceful Venus" or "Indulgent Venus") is an epithet
to which a temple was dedicated in the late 3rd century BC during the
Third Samnite War by Quintus Fabius Maximus Gurges. It was built with
money fined from women who had been found guilty of adultery. It was
the oldest temple of Venus in Rome, and was probably situated at the
foot of the Aventine Hill near the Circus Maximus. Its dedication day,
August 19, was celebrated in the Vinalia Rustica.

Venus Verticordia ("Venus the Changer of Hearts"), the protector
against vice. A temple to Venus Verticordia was built in Rome in 114
BC, and dedicated April 1, at the instruction of the Sibylline Books
to atone for the inchastity of three Vestal Virgins.

Venus Victrix ("Venus the Victorious") is an aspect of Venus to which
Pompey dedicated a temple at the top of his theater in the Campus
Martius in 55 BC. There was also a shrine to Venus Victrix on the
Capitoline Hill, and festivals to her on August 12 and October 9. A
sacrifice was annually dedicated to her on the latter date.

Other significant epithets for Venus include Venus Amica ("Venus the
Friend"), Venus Armata ("Armed Venus"), Venus Caelestis ("Celestial
Venus"), and Venus Aurea ("Golden Venus").


Valete bene!

Cato

Salve Scholastica, et omnes,

Here the kind of statement who should make us *all* think about our goals, our way of being Romans, our commitments, and the image we throw outside.

Imho, the Golden Age you lived personally is over : we have not, at least currently, people who are at the same time strongly committed in learning Latin, within an "institutional" course, and in being active actors of our Republic.

The consequence is your "customers" are now, for a large part, outside NR. You are in the same situation than Perusianus with Pomerium : you began offering a "product" to ppl who were in NR and now, the most of your public is outside.

Just this fact should bring our Senate to think on what we want about Latin courses, etc..

Second, I am convinced that Romanity is like a BigMac : you got several slices in it : put off a slice, and you will have no longer a BigMac.
Interest in Latin, is, imo, one of these slices. One cannot fully live and understand a civilization if one does not understand, even at a mininum, its language, how it works and how it sounds.

Here is a point we are still weak on : how to better define our several types/levels of romanitas and what to do to go, or to get closest as possible, to an "integrated state of romanitas."

Currently, a NR citizen is just identified by an application accepted, specially by the validated choice of a Roman identity.
Negatively speaking, we may think that this is not enough. Positively, that this is the beginning of a possible informal cursus.

Could not we do more ?
Let us ask ourselves the question : what do we learn being a NR civis, and what should, in our own personal opinion, learn ?

Vale, et omnes,


Albucius csr


-------------------------

>(ATS): Years ago,virtually all of the Sermo students were Roman >citizens (the first course had ten members, five of whom completed >what is now the Combined course: Astur, Augustus, Cordus, Serena, >and >myself), and several former officers of Latinitas, etc., took >the >course at the time Lentulus did, but now the majority are >Spaniards >and non-citizens. There is not a single NR citizen in >Sermo I or >Sermo II

Livia Plauta C. Petronio sal.

C. Petronius Liviae Plautae s.p.d.,

>It is the order of Donatus:
>"- casus nominum quot sunt?
>- sex.
>- qui?
>- nominatiuus, genetiuus, datiuus, accusatiuus, uocatiuus, ablatiuus."

>I do not know if it is proper, but it is the most ancient.

Exactly: we never saw any reason to change it. The motto is: "If it ain't
broke, don't fix it" (in standard English "if it works, don't modify it").

I guess other nations changed it just in order to be "different" in
something.

Optime vale,
Livia

>
>
>
> Salve, Albuci, et salvete, quirites bonae voluntatis.
>
> Salve Scholastica, et omnes,
>
> Here the kind of statement who should make us *all* think about our goals, our
> way of being Romans, our commitments, and the image we throw outside.
>
> Imho, the Golden Age you lived personally is over :
>
> ATS: Maybe, maybe not. Already two citizens have asked to join
> Grammatica I when registration opens, and others may follow. Sermo really
> requires some Latin background, and is less likely to be an entry-level
> course. Further, the Sermo courses are unique in the world, and we will
> always have interested outsiders joining them.
>
>
> we have not, at least currently, people who are at the same time strongly
> committed in learning Latin, within an "institutional" course, and in being
> active actors of our Republic.
>
> ATS: Sadly, it seems that few are interested in any kind of activity in
> NR. The exception seems to be the xenophobic and often misogynistic
> philistines from the Dark Side. They are interested in money and power and
> titles, but not in academics of any kind.
>
> PMA: The consequence is your "customers" are now, for a large part, outside
> NR. You are in the same situation than Perusianus with Pomerium : you began
> offering a "product" to ppl who were in NR and now, the most of your public is
> outside.
>
> ATS: Well, the Sermo classes have been offered to outsiders almost from
> the beginning. That was even more true once the lessons and text were
> translated into Spanish and the text was translated into English. At first we
> had only the text in French or Italian, and lessons in English, so the
> students had to be able to read English and either French or Italian. Avitus
> wanted to broaden his audience, so he translated his lessons and other
> materials into his native Spanish, and enlisted volunteers to translate the
> text. Too, when the Academia Thules was functioning, we had a link with NR;
> when their server broke and was not repaired for some years, we had to strike
> out on our own, using the alternate website by which we attracted students and
> assistance from a friend.
>
> There is also the problem that Assimil withdrew the French text and
> substituted a markedly inferior one which they are foisting off on the unwary,
> on top of which the sound files mandatory for the Sermo courses are completely
> sold out, so the students cannot obtain them. We have worked around these
> situations all year, and can continue to do so, but the prospective students
> do not know this unless they contact us. Add to this that the Assimil text is
> very costly even without the tapes or CDs, and you see why the English
> speakers in Sermo I this year are all professional friends or colleagues of
> the teacher (I am not teaching that course this year), and perhaps why there
> are no Roman citizens among them. There is widespread misunderstanding of NR
> among the English speakers in that class, and it would not surprise me if the
> same were true of the Spanish speakers.
>
> As for Wheelock, the text is fairly cheap and readily available in
> English-speaking countries, but those who are not fluent in English will
> encounter problems. At present there is no native speaker of English in
> Grammatica I (for Caeca is disabled for the moment), and only one lives in an
> English-speaking country, but that also means that I have to explain English
> to several students who are quite competent in English, but not so much so
> that they always understand everything in Wheelock or my lessons or that they
> can always translate Latin into English, or vice versa.
>
> PMA: Just this fact should bring our Senate to think on what we want about
> Latin courses, etc..
>
> ATS: We are totally independent of NR, but do attract some NR citizens as
> students, particularly in the Grammatica classes. Latinitas used to offer
> instruction in Latin, but we handed that over to the AT after its founding.
> The Senate need not get involved in Latin instruction, though it should
> recognize the efforts of Lentulus and yours truly in promoting Latin.
>
> Second, I am convinced that Romanity is like a BigMac : you got several slices
> in it : put off a slice, and you will have no longer a BigMac.
> Interest in Latin, is, imo, one of these slices. One cannot fully live and
> understand a civilization if one does not understand, even at a mininum, its
> language, how it works and how it sounds.
>
> ATS: I agree, but some of us cannot get our mouths around Big Macs (are
> these the new French haute cuisine?), and some cannot get their brains around
> Latin, especially English speakers. The absence of grammatical forms in
> English and the need to learn how to manage the case system from the ground up
> are factors in these difficulties, but not only English speakers have problems
> with that: the Spaniards do as well. So do some others, for our students
> come from a number of linguistic backgrounds. I firmly believe that Romanitas
> includes a knowledge of Latin, but reality may intrude. However, it is the
> philistines who now populate most of the Senate who are the staunchest
> defenders of an English-only environment in NR and everywhere else, who shoot
> down anyone who uses Latin on the ML, who groan and gripe that they cannot
> learn Latin, etc., etc. Now this may be true in some cases, and it is also
> likely that members of the television generations are brain-damaged in the
> language and logic areas of the cerebral cortex, but that does not excuse the
> complaints and lack of effort in the direction of Latin acquisition.
> Different methods work for different people, but the brain normally has enough
> plasticity that it can absorb language, for language is tremendously important
> to the human species.
>
> IMHO, no one can indeed understand Roman civilization without knowing the
> language of the Romans, without knowing the basics of its grammar and its
> phonological system. Reading the works of Latin authors in translation is not
> quite the same as reading the original in Latin. Reading I sing of the arms
> and the man is not quite the same as reading Arma virumque cano, nor is
> reading How far, I should like to know, Catilina, will you abuse our patience
> the same as reading Quousque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientiá nostrá. A
> great deal is lost in the translation, not least the sounds of Latin,
> especially Latin composed so that those sounds were most meaningful and
> evocative to its native speakers.
>
> PMA: Here is a point we are still weak on : how to better define our several
> types/levels of romanitas and what to do to go, or to get closest as possible,
> to an "integrated state of romanitas."
>
> Currently, a NR citizen is just identified by an application accepted,
> specially by the validated choice of a Roman identity.
>
> Negatively speaking, we may think that this is not enough. Positively, that
> this is the beginning of a possible informal cursus.
>
> ATS: Maybe we should give CPs for proficiency in Latin, and tax remission
> as well. That might do it. So might the reverse.
>
> Could not we do more ?
>
> ATS: Quite possibly. I propose that you teach Sulla and Caesar Latin...
>
> Let us ask ourselves the question : what do we learn being a NR civis, and
> what should, in our own personal opinion, learn ?
>
> ATS: Good idea.
>
> Vale, et omnes,
>
> Albucius csr
>
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
> -------------------------
>
>> >(ATS): Years ago,virtually all of the Sermo students were Roman >citizens
>> (the first course had ten members, five of whom completed >what is now the
>> Combined course: Astur, Augustus, Cordus, Serena, >and >myself), and several
>> former officers of Latinitas, etc., took >the >course at the time Lentulus
>> did, but now the majority are >Spaniards >and non-citizens. There is not a
>> single NR citizen in >Sermo I or >Sermo II
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Scholasticae omn.que

>> Imho, the Golden Age you lived personally is over :
> ATS: Maybe, maybe not. Already two citizens have asked to join
> Grammatica I when registration opens, and others may follow. (..)

I meant that you lived a specific "high time" where you belonged to a wave of ppl interested in Roman humanities in general.
We have no such "prolific" generation currently. I do not say that we will not get another one in the future, but it will take some time, mechanically.

>> we have not, at least currently, people who are at the same time strongly committed in learning Latin (..)
> ATS: (..) They are interested in money and power and titles, but not in academics of any kind.

NR is in a low period of its history. The leaving of citizens who were active in various things and were among the ones who showed more interests in "academics", to say it short, hides the fact, imo, that we have never seriously developed this track. They were, with others who are still here and well here, the tree hiding the absent forest.
This is probably due to NR conditions of creation, but also, like for every real activity we have/should have to cope with, to our difficulty to work as a non-profit.
As long that we will not have solved our difficulties (i.e. at the same time having a npmc working normally and our State reenactment activity, working in parallel in the narrow frame of a one year consular term), we will have problems with developing good activities and program over years.
Here, the position of the persons you are thinking about is not necessarily incompatible, in itself, with the development of such activities. I would say that, on the contrary, they are right emphasizing the legal Caudine Forks that is the working, and the good working of a non-profit.
In a second phase, naturally, what will be at stake will be the projects, programs and activities that NR as npmc would be able to set.

> ATS: Well, the Sermo classes have been offered to outsiders almost from
> the beginning. (..)Too, when the Academia Thules was functioning, we had a link with NR;
> when their server broke and was not repaired for some years, we had to strike
> out on our own, using the alternate website by which we attracted students and
> assistance from a friend.

I realize that I do not know who is, apart you, in the "we" : Avitus ? others ? Are you using a specific web site ?

> There is also the problem that Assimil withdrew the French text and
> substituted a markedly inferior one

You mean the 1966 release ?

> which they are foisting off on the unwary, on top of which the sound files mandatory for the Sermo courses are completely
> sold out, so the students cannot obtain them.

You mean that Assimil would display sound files ?


(..) Add to this that the Assimil text is very costly even without the tapes or CDs, and you see why the English

> speakers in Sermo I this year are all professional friends or colleagues of
> the teacher (I am not teaching that course this year), and perhaps why there
> are no Roman citizens among them. There is widespread misunderstanding of NR
> among the English speakers in that class, and it would not surprise me if the
> same were true of the Spanish speakers.

I think that it is not the first problem, at least here, in NR. I think that the problems are that :
- this "package of course" is not seen by ppl as a strong "product" proposed by NR ;
- NR does not institutionally promote this offer;
- ppl do not see the place, role, etc. of such courses in their personal NR cursus.

Honestly, I am convinced that the solution is that independant materials be proposed. This way, no more pb of copyright, bridges between the language to be thrown, etc.. This should be the kind of action NR should finance, imho. But this would need a clear contractual relation between NR and the teaching group.

> ATS: We are totally independent of NR, but do attract some NR citizens as
> students, particularly in the Grammatica classes. Latinitas used to offer
> instruction in Latin, but we handed that over to the AT after its founding.
> The Senate need not get involved in Latin instruction, though it should
> recognize the efforts of Lentulus and yours truly in promoting Latin.

Imo, here is one of your problems : as long NR does not develop such courses, you may go on working this way, but knowing that you will never, at least during the coming years, attract many people. If NR decides one day to develop such courses, there will be no place for alternative "products" but you, as group of teachers, would take profit of the support of a corporation like NR which would have decided to begin working in this field.

(..)

> ATS: (..) some cannot get their brains around Latin, especially English speakers.

Frankly, I am dubious about it. I remember that, when I was a teen, people would tell the same
about German and its cases, while French has none.
Every language has its own difficulties in learning a foreign one.
Apart medical reasons (brain, on learning processes..) every one is able to learn, at least a bit.
And from this point on, everything is matter of consciousness and will, and remembering that
being Roman means being conscious that effort and discipline are good in themselves.

>However, it is the philistines who now populate most of the Senate who are the staunchest
> defenders of an English-only environment in NR and everywhere else, who shoot
> down anyone who uses Latin on the ML, who groan and gripe that they cannot
> learn Latin, etc., etc.

They are not so many, imo. Imk, there is just one case: M. Minucius Audens. As he explained that he suffers of medical difficulties which prevent him being able learning new language's informations, I try personally to adapt myself in his presence in
the senatorial lists, just by basic respect towards an elder colleague. In parallel, I expect that he understands that I may consider a NewRoman, who would refuse hearing or reading Latin, a bit like a Roswellian creature for average Human beings.
I am convinced that all other senators are conscious that Latin is one of the wheel of our common car, even if they have either
no time or not enough motivation to dive in learning a bit Latin.
On this point, my expectations are modest ones : if a senator is better in handling our finances or in proposing good ideas which will help NR developing etc. and has less time than another to work her/his Latin, why not? For, this way, NR will have moved forward and will be able to own larger means... which will in a second time allow us to boost real activities like learning Latin, etc.. It is a win-win relation with time.

> Reading "I sing of the arms and the man" is not quite the same as reading "Arma virumque cano", nor is
> reading "How far, I should like to know, Catilina, will you abuse our patience"
> the same as reading "Quousque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientiá nostrá". A
> great deal is lost in the translation,

Terrific....! Honestly, I never heard, or read - or put attention, maybe - on the English translations of such sentences.
I am not the best placed to judge on this, for I have been taught a similar translation in my own native language, even if its sounds are different. This way, I am cautious on such judgments, specially since I discovered in my youth that Hollywood movies were... "also" translated in other languages than mine. Hearing Bob de Niro speaking Polish or Turkish for a French movies' amateur is a great experience about cultural relativity and ethnocentrism.
This said the "How far, Catilina, will you abuse our patience" sounds a bit odd, indeed! The strenght of the Latin consons is lost, the repetition of the aggressive dentals t-d-t-t-t-t wholly absent, like the echo between the Q and the C, and vanished the troubling effect of the "i" of "patientia", opposed to the closed sounds of the "o" and "u" of the beginning of the sentence.
The worst is probably the "abUse".

> ATS: Maybe we should give CPs for proficiency in Latin, and tax remission
> as well. That might do it. So might the reverse.

We must find a system which encourages ppl to get interested in Latin, as in learning other "key fields" of romanitas.
On the CP, I am convinced that we must rethink the system : our CPs have lost their interest and utility.
Yes, I think that rewarding ppl that make an effort, here learning Latin, might be fairly balanced by a better access to certain situations or "products". But it should be worth of it - for ex, would lowering a 15 usd fee of 5 dollars be ? - and we would need objective patterns to rule on situations.

Vale Scolastica,


Albucius csr





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica P. Memmio Albucio quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> It seems my system considers you a spammer...
>
>
>
> Scholasticae omn.que
>
>>> >> Imho, the Golden Age you lived personally is over :
>> > ATS: Maybe, maybe not. Already two citizens have asked to join
>> > Grammatica I when registration opens, and others may follow. (..)
>
> I meant that you lived a specific "high time" where you belonged to a wave of
> ppl interested in Roman humanities in general.
>
> ATS2: Well, many members of the generations which preceded mine were
> plenty interested in these matters, including some of my uneducated older
> relatives.
>
> We have no such "prolific" generation currently. I do not say that we will not
> get another one in the future, but it will take some time, mechanically.
>
> ATS2: The cure for the failing linguistic abilities is to shut the idiot
> box off, and never allow any child under ten to see the thing.
>
>>> >> we have not, at least currently, people who are at the same time strongly
>>> committed in learning Latin (..)
>> > ATS: (..) They are interested in money and power and titles, but not in
>> academics of any kind.
>
> NR is in a low period of its history.
>
> ATS2: Yes, and I think you know why.
>
>
> The leaving of citizens who were active in various things and were among the
> ones who showed more interests in "academics", to say it short, hides the
> fact, imo, that we have never seriously developed this track. They were, with
> others who are still here and well here, the tree hiding the absent forest.
>
> ATS2: Well, some of them are caught up in their own personal lives. The
> demands of work and family and sudden illnesses take their toll.
> Unfortunately, as you say, the more intellectually-inclined have left or gone
> into retreat. The environment at present favors philistinism, not learning.
>
>
> This is probably due to NR conditions of creation, but also, like for every
> real activity we have/should have to cope with, to our difficulty to work as a
> non-profit.
> As long that we will not have solved our difficulties (i.e. at the same time
> having a npmc working normally and our State reenactment activity, working in
> parallel in the narrow frame of a one year consular term), we will have
> problems with developing good activities and program over years.
> Here, the position of the persons you are thinking about is not necessarily
> incompatible, in itself, with the development of such activities. I would say
> that, on the contrary, they are right emphasizing the legal Caudine Forks that
> is the working, and the good working of a non-profit.
> In a second phase, naturally, what will be at stake will be the projects,
> programs and activities that NR as npmc would be able to set.
>
>
>> > ATS: Well, the Sermo classes have been offered to outsiders almost from
>> > the beginning. (..)Too, when the Academia Thules was functioning, we had a
>> link with NR;
>> > when their server broke and was not repaired for some years, we had to
>> strike
>> > out on our own, using the alternate website by which we attracted students
>> and
>> > assistance from a friend.
>
> I realize that I do not know who is, apart you, in the "we" : Avitus ? others
> ? Are you using a specific web site ?
>
> ATS2: Avitus created the Sermo courses and the Rudimenta one, and I
> created the Grammatica ones. We have a webmaster who is a citizen, a new
> instructor who is not a citizen, and a Spanish interpreter who is not a
> citizen.
>
>> > There is also the problem that Assimil withdrew the French text and
>> > substituted a markedly inferior one
>
> You mean the 1966 release ?
>
> ATS2: No, that is the one I have, as a matter of fact. This is a wholly
> new text by an I. Ducos-Filippi, who does not know how to decline or conjugate
> Latin words (or so I am told; I haven¹t seen this text). Assimil took the
> French Desessard Assimil out of print about three years ago, though the
> Italian translation is still available...minus the sound files.
>
>> > which they are foisting off on the unwary, on top of which the sound files
>> mandatory for the Sermo courses are completely
>> > sold out, so the students cannot obtain them.
>
> You mean that Assimil would display sound files ?
>
> ATS2: The texts were accompanied by three tapes reciting the lessons.
> Some fortunate souls got CDs. The new Ducos-Filippi version has CDs, too, but
> this is a very bad text, and panned by the Latinists. We have sound files per
> se on our course websites, too, so the students can hear Latin as well as see
> it. Part of the Sermo courses involve understanding spoken Latin, so the
> students have exercises and test questions which must be answered solely by
> listening to the sound files; in Grammatica, I have some sound files there for
> practice, but in the first year course I do not require any questions to be
> answered strictly by listening to the files.
>
>
> (..) Add to this that the Assimil text is very costly even without the tapes
> or CDs, and you see why the English
>> > speakers in Sermo I this year are all professional friends or colleagues of
>> > the teacher (I am not teaching that course this year), and perhaps why
>> there
>> > are no Roman citizens among them. There is widespread misunderstanding of
>> NR
>> > among the English speakers in that class, and it would not surprise me if
>> the
>> > same were true of the Spanish speakers.
>
> I think that it is not the first problem, at least here, in NR. I think that
> the problems are that :
> * this "package of course" is not seen by ppl as a strong "product" proposed
> by NR ;

ATS2: Well, a number of our citizens have taken the
courses, and recommend them.

> * NR does not institutionally promote this offer;

ATS2: Maybe it should.

> * ppl do not see the place, role, etc. of such courses in their personal NR
> cursus.

ATS2: As I said, maybe we should give CPs for learning
Latin.

>
> Honestly, I am convinced that the solution is that independant materials be
> proposed. This way, no more pb of copyright, bridges between the language to
> be thrown, etc.. This should be the kind of action NR should finance, imho.
> But this would need a clear contractual relation between NR and the teaching
> group.
>
>
> ATS2: Well, we were affiliated with the AT, and (inter alia) were not
> allowed to expel students who cheated or who insulted the teachers or our
> teachings. Independence, happy land, as my mom used to say.
>
> Moreover, the texts we use are quite good, and very effective, and we do
> not have the time to devise courses ab initio without any reference to some
> existing text. Avitus doesn¹t even have time to sit down and write the books
> he had planned to write on neologisms, and that is something far more critical
> for our field than creating a new pedagogical method when we already have a
> couple which work quite well.
>
>> > ATS: We are totally independent of NR, but do attract some NR citizens as
>> > students, particularly in the Grammatica classes. Latinitas used to offer
>> > instruction in Latin, but we handed that over to the AT after its founding.
>> > The Senate need not get involved in Latin instruction, though it should
>> > recognize the efforts of Lentulus and yours truly in promoting Latin.
>
> Imo, here is one of your problems : as long NR does not develop such courses,
> you may go on working this way, but knowing that you will never, at least
> during the coming years, attract many people.
>
> ATS2: I think we had over 50 in Grammatica I when I took it over from the
> vanished Scaurus. Thing is, most didn¹t want to work, so only about five
> actually finished the course. Sermo has had some 30 or more in the
> introductory courses, but many drop out when they see how difficult it is.
> This year we also had the problem with the sound files being sold out and the
> text being hard to find, plus the primary website was out of date and Avitus
> could not contact the webmaster for that site, so people did not appear. The
> quality seems pretty good in the courses I teach, however...it¹s just that
> there are very few citizens in them.
>
>
> If NR decides one day to develop such courses, there will be no place for
> alternative "products" but you, as group of teachers, would take profit of the
> support of a corporation like NR which would have decided to begin working in
> this field.
>
> ATS2: Some backup might be nice, but as I said about independence...
>
> (..)
>
>> > ATS: (..) some cannot get their brains around Latin, especially English
>> speakers.
>
> Frankly, I am dubious about it. I remember that, when I was a teen, people
> would tell the same
> about German and its cases, while French has none.
>
> ATS2: The real fun about German is the der-Wörter and ein-Wörter.
> English did well to get rid of that (we did have this, too...). Trouble is,
> too, so many of the cases are similar, and the Germanic languages do not have
> those nice, simple Latin and Greek type declensions.
>
>
> Every language has its own difficulties in learning a foreign one.
>
> ATS2: Yes. French has umpteen principal parts, and all of these literary
> and other moods and tenses, plus an inclination to regard everything in the
> world as present before every individual (the partitive).
>
>
> Apart medical reasons (brain, on learning processes..) every one is able to
> learn, at least a bit.
>
> ATS2: Yes, though extra chromosomes might make that difficult.
>
>
> And from this point on, everything is matter of consciousness and will, and
> remembering that
> being Roman means being conscious that effort and discipline are good in
> themselves.
>
> ATS2: Good point. That element of Romanitas, however, seems to be
> lacking in too many.
>
>> >However, it is the philistines who now populate most of the Senate who are
>> the staunchest
>> > defenders of an English-only environment in NR and everywhere else, who
>> shoot
>> > down anyone who uses Latin on the ML, who groan and gripe that they cannot
>> > learn Latin, etc., etc.
>
> They are not so many, imo. Imk, there is just one case: M. Minucius Audens.
>
> ATS2: He is not alone in complaining, though.
>
>
> As he explained that he suffers of medical difficulties which prevent him
> being able learning new language's informations,
>
> ATS2: Apparently not just languages...but at least his excuse is
> legitimate. That of others is much less so.
>
>
> I try personally to adapt myself in his presence in
> the senatorial lists, just by basic respect towards an elder colleague. In
> parallel, I expect that he understands that I may consider a NewRoman, who
> would refuse hearing or reading Latin, a bit like a Roswellian creature for
> average Human beings.
>
> ATS2: Hmmm...not sure about that. He might not agree.
>
> I am convinced that all other senators are conscious that Latin is one of the
> wheel of our common car, even if they have either
> no time or not enough motivation to dive in learning a bit Latin.
>
> ATS2: Ditto there. The more intellectual people are mostly in the
> faction which has been sold down the river; you won¹t find Slytherin House
> terribly interested.
>
> On this point, my expectations are modest ones : if a senator is better in
> handling our finances or in proposing good ideas which will help NR developing
> etc. and has less time than another to work her/his Latin, why not? For, this
> way, NR will have moved forward and will be able to own larger means... which
> will in a second time allow us to boost real activities like learning Latin,
> etc.. It is a win-win relation with time.
>
>> > Reading "I sing of the arms and the man" is not quite the same as reading
>> "Arma virumque cano", nor is
>> > reading "How far, I should like to know, Catilina, will you abuse our
>> patience"
>> > the same as reading "Quousque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientiá nostrá".

A

>> > great deal is lost in the translation,
>
> Terrific....! Honestly, I never heard, or read - or put attention, maybe - on
> the English translations of such sentences.
> I am not the best placed to judge on this, for I have been taught a similar
> translation in my own native language, even if its sounds are different.
>
> ATS2: Methinks French sounds a lot different from Latin...
>
> This way, I am cautious on such judgments, specially since I discovered in my
> youth that Hollywood movies were... "also" translated in other languages than
> mine. Hearing Bob de Niro speaking Polish or Turkish for a French movies'
> amateur is a great experience about cultural relativity and ethnocentrism.
> This said the "How far, Catilina, will you abuse our patience" sounds a bit
> odd, indeed!
>
> ATS2: One of my texts adds a little something: How far, I should like to
> know, will you abuse our patience, Catiline... (if memory serves...). Abuse
> is a fine way of rendering abutere, but one must hear the entire original
> paragraph to understand its effect.
>
> The strenght of the Latin consons is lost, the repetition of the aggressive
> dentals t-d-t-t-t-t wholly absent, like the echo between the Q and the C, and
> vanished the troubling effect of the "i" of "patientia", opposed to the closed
> sounds of the "o" and "u" of the beginning of the sentence.
>
> ATS2: All the more reason to learn Latin, nonne? Add Greek to that, for
> there is no way to really translate the like of tén méden es to méden; one
> must understand it, and feel it, not translate it.
>
> I would like that time machine so we could hear Tullius inveigh against
> Catiline...
>
> The worst is probably the "abUse".
>
>> > ATS: Maybe we should give CPs for proficiency in Latin, and tax remission
>> > as well. That might do it. So might the reverse.
>
> We must find a system which encourages ppl to get interested in Latin, as in
> learning other "key fields" of romanitas.
> On the CP, I am convinced that we must rethink the system : our CPs have lost
> their interest and utility.
>
> ATS2: Well, I don¹t think so, but it is not right that one member of a
> paired magistracy does all of the work while the other gets the same credit
> but does nada. Latinists ought to get CPs, too, just for that.
>
>
> Yes, I think that rewarding ppl that make an effort, here learning Latin,
> might be fairly balanced by a better access to certain situations or
> "products". But it should be worth of it - for ex, would lowering a 15 usd fee
> of 5 dollars be ? - and we would need objective patterns to rule on
> situations.
>
> ATS2: Possibly, possibly...
>
> Vale Scolastica,
>
>
> Albucius csr
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

*Sta. Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia Omnibus in foro salutem plurimam
dicit:
*
*POMPA*
In the first hours of dawn on this first day of the Ludi Megalesia of 2764,
the crowd is gathering outside the Temple of the Magna Mater. There is a
light rain, but the sky is clearing as it lightens. Women are gathering in
groups preparing for this important event. After a last discussion with
organizers, Curule Aedile Sta. Cornelia Valeriana Iuliana Aeternia steps
onto the portable platform she takes with her so as to be able to see over
the crowd and speaks:

*OPENING SPEECH OF THE CURULE AEDILE:
*
In going with the tradition set before by past Predecessors, we give honor
to Rome's Sacred Protectress, the Great Mother, Magna Mater. From the
Mountains to Forests and even the rocky shores, she inhabits in all things
that is life. The Aedilican Cohors carry on the path of bringing you a
wonderful festival focusing on the more cultural aspects of our Republic.
Through history, Latin, and comical literary competitions. We ask the
citizens of Nova Roma to join in partaking of this celebration of
celebrating the Great Mother Goddess.

I hereby delcare the Ludi Megalenses 2764 *OPEN!*


*INVOCATION TO THE MAGNA MATER*
Hail Great Goddess, Magna Mater, safe in the womb of Your sacred forests I,
Sta. Cornelia Valeriana Iuliana Aeternia, praise Thee with voice lifted to
the highest mountains! Draw near, hear, and accept these sacrifices of milk
and honey, of the sweetest incense, in Your honor! I humbly implore You,
Great Mother, to protect and bring propitious blessings, harmony and
happiness to the citizens of Nova Roma, to the sacred city of Rome and to
all those who remember Your name this holy week of Your joyous festival!

From Precatio Terrae 15-24:
Merito vocaris Magna tu Mater deum, pietate quia vicisti divom numina; tuque
illa vera esd gentium et divom parens, sine qua nil maturatur nec nasci
potest: tu es Magna tuque divom regina es, dea. Te, diva, adoro tuumque ego
numen invoco, facilisque praestes hoc mihi quod te rogo; referamque grates,
diva, tibi merita fide. exaudi me, quaeso, et fave coeptis meis; hoc quod
peto a te, diva, mihi praesta volens.

Many of the actors who will perform in the theatricals throughout the
Megalesia are gathered here to honor the goddess. Some are dressed as the
characters they will portray, and others are simply attired in their own
best robes. The image of the Goddess herself will be carried under a canopy
of striped silk, the canopy supported by gallae of the Temple. Such golden
voices! The finest singers in Rome are accompanying the procession as it
wends its way. The sound of flutes, lyres and drums add to the cheerful
atmosphere of the morning. The chorus is followed by a group of fire
dancers, acrobats and magicians, many of them brought from the far-flung
reaches of the world to delight the citizens of Rome. Slaves carrying trays
of massy silver and gold, all the prizes to be awarded as part of the games
are part of this sacred ritual which opens the games. Flower petals of
cherry blossoms are everywhere, and the sweet scent of incense fills the
air, mixing with the scent of food that vendors are starting to offer, a
promise of the many edible delights which await the crowds over the next
days. Across the Forum and through the Porta Triumphalis the procession
moves. The gilded litters carrying the images of the Gods arrive. The
litters are of rare sandalwood and myrrh, newly made and a gift of the
Curule Aedile Aeternia. The litter hangings as well as the raiment of the
statues are of silk brought from far beyond Our Sea. The Aediles Curules
stand right before the altar. Aedile Aeternia covers her head with her
palla, and prays loudly:

*OPENING RITUAL OF THE GAMES
*
�O Great Magna Mater,
Mighty Protectress of Rome,
and You, Vesta, keeper of the Eternal Flame,
and all of You, eternal Gods,
who raised this mass of the Roman Republic
to the highest glories of the world,
I pray and invoke You in the name of the New Roman People:
weave together the many threads of our endeavors,
cement our service to the Republic of Nova Roma,
and let any action or intention which does not meet with Your approbation
dwindle.�

*A LIBATION OF WINE IS POURED & SACRIFICED
*
The statue of the Magna Mater was carried by procession around the templum
and
brought behind the Ara Iovis. The statue remains there until the end of
the ceremony.

Since the sacrifice was accepted by the God favorably Ludi Megalesia (the
Ludi Megalenses ) are proclaimed open.

Vale Optime Omnes,
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia (Aedilis Curulis Maior)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.


Since this is the Ludi Megalenses, each day the Aedilician Cohors will be
presenting Informative posts about the Magna Mater each day throughout the
Ludi. Below is the story of the how the statue of the Great Mater was
delivered to Rome. Translated in both English and Latin please enjoy!


Vale Optime,

Statia Cornelia Aeternia

*
*

*
*

*The Wonder ** That Is Magna Mater:*

Magna Mater ("Great Mother") is originally an eastern goddess of nature and
fertility. Associated with the cult of Cybele was the cult of Attis, a
shepherd. In frenzy he castrated himself, after breaking a promise to
Cybele. He then died under a pine-tree, near the river Gallos, but was
resuscitated and served the Great Mother from than on. Cybele came to Rome
in 204 BC. A black stone representing the goddess was taken to Rome via
Ostia. There was an aristocratic reception committee. One of the members was
a girl named Claudia Quinta, whose reputation was doubted. The ship with the
stone ran aground near a bank of the Tiber. The girl then asked the goddess
for a sign, to prove her innocence. And a miracle occurred: she was able to
set the ship afloat with her own hands. The poet Publius Ovidius Naso (43 BC
- 17 or 18 AD)in book IV describes the events surrounding the arrival in 204
BC of the image of the Magna Mater (Cybele) in Ostia, where the miracle took
place:



*Fasti IV, 291-328*

ostia contigerat, qua se Tiberinus in altum
dividit et campo liberiore natat:
omnis eques mixtaque gravis cum plebe senatus
obvius ad Tusci fluminis ora venit.
[295] procedunt pariter matres nataeque nurusque
quaeque colunt sanctos virginitate focos.
sedula fune viri contento bracchia lassant:
vix subit adversas hospita navis aquas.
sicca diu fuerat tellus, sitis usserat herbas:
[300] sedit limoso pressa carina vado.
quisquis adest operi, plus quam pro parte laborat,
adiuvat et fortes voce sonante manus:
illa velut medio stabilis sedet insula ponto;
attoniti monstro stantque paventque viri.
[305] Claudia Quinta genus Clauso referebat ab alto
(nec facies impar nobilitate fuit),
casta quidem, sed non et credita: rumor iniquus
laeserat, et falsi criminis acta rea est.
cultus et ornatis varie prodisse capillis
[310] obfuit ad rigidos promptaque lingua senes.
conscia mens recti famae mendacia risit,
sed nos in vitium credula turba sumus.
haec ubi castarum processit ab agmine matrum
et manibus puram fluminis hausit aquam,
[315] ter caput inrorat, ter tollit in aethera palmas
(quicumque aspiciunt, mente carere putant),
summissoque genu voltus in imagine divae
figit, et hos edit crine iacente sonos:
"supplicis, alma, tuae, genetrix fecunda deorum,
[320] accipe sub certa condicione preces.
casta negor: si tu damnas, meruisse fatebor;
morte luam poenas iudice victa dea;
sed si crimen abest, tu nostrae pignora vitae
re dabis, et castas casta sequere manus."
[325] dixit, et exiguo funem conamine traxit;
mira, sed et scaena testificata loquar:
mota dea est, sequiturque ducem laudatque sequendo;
index laetitiae fertur ad astra sonus.
fluminis ad flexum veniunt (Tiberina priores
[330] Atria dixerunt), unde sinister abit.
nox aderat: querno religant in stipite funem,
dantque levi somno corpora functa cibo.
lux aderat: querno solvunt a stipite funem,
ante tamen posito tura dedere foco,
[335] ante coronarunt puppem, sine labe iuvencam
mactarunt operum coniugiique rudem.
est locus, in Tiberim qua lubricus influit Almo
et nomen magno perdit in amne minor.
illic purpurea canus cum veste sacerdos
[340] Almonis dominam sacraque lavit aquis.
exululant comites, furiosaque tibia flatur,
et feriunt molles taurea terga manus.
Claudia praecedit laeto celeberrima voltu,
credita vix tandem teste pudica dea;
[345] ipsa sedens plaustro porta est invecta Capena:
sparguntur iunctae flore recente boves.
Nasica accepit; templi non perstitit auctor:
Augustus nunc est, ante Metellus erat.

She�d arrived at the mouth (ostia) where the Tiber divides
To meet the deep, and flows with a wider sweep:
All the Knights, grave Senators, and commoners,
Came to meet her at the mouth of the Tuscan river.
[295] With them walked mothers, daughters, and brides,
And all those virgins who tend the sacred fires.
The men wearied their arms hauling hard on the ropes:
The foreign vessel barely made way against the stream.
For a long time there�d been a drought: the grass was dry
[300] And scorched: the boat stuck fast in the muddy shallows.
Every man, hauling, laboured beyond his strength,
And encouraged their toiling hands with his cries.
Yet the ship lodged there, like an island fixed in mid-ocean:
And astonished at the portent, men stood and quaked.
[305] Claudia Quinta traced her descent from noble Clausus,
And her beauty was in no way unequal to her nobility:
She was chaste, but not believed so: hostile rumour
Had wounded her, false charges were levelled at her:
Her elegance, promenading around in various hairstyles,
[310] And her ready tongue, with stiff old men, counted against her.
Conscious of virtue, she laughed at the rumoured lies,
But we�re always ready to credit others with faults.
Now, when she�d stepped from the line of chaste women,
Taking pure river water in her hands, she wetted her head
[315] Three times, three times lifted her palms to the sky,
(Everyone watching her thought she�d lost her mind)
Then, kneeling, fixed her eyes on the goddess�s statue,
And, with loosened hair, uttered these words:
� Kind and fruitful Mother of the Gods, accept
[320] A suppliant�s prayers, on this one condition:
They deny I�m chaste: let me be guilty if you condemn me:
Convicted by a goddess I�ll pay for it with my life.
But if I�m free of guilt, grant a pledge of my innocence
By your action: and, chaste, give way to my chaste hands.�
[325] She spoke: then gave a slight pull at the rope,
(A wonder, but the sacred drama attests what I say):
The goddess stirred, followed, and, following, approved her:
Witness the sound of jubilation carried to the stars.
They came to a bend in the river (called of old
[330] The Halls of Tiber): there the stream turns left, ascending.
Night fell: they tied the rope to an oak stump,
And, having eaten, settled to a tranquil sleep.
Dawn rose: they loosed the rope from the oak stump,
After first laying a fire and offering incense,
[335] And crowned the stern, and sacrificed a heifer
Free of blemish, that had never known yoke or bull.
There�s a place where smooth-flowing Almo joins the Tiber,
And the lesser flow loses its name in the greater:
There, a white-headed priest in purple robes
[340] Washed the Lady, and sacred relics, in Almo�s water.
The attendants howled, and the mad flutes blew,
And soft hands beat at the bull�s-hide drums.
Claudia walked in front with a joyful face,
Her chastity proven by the goddess�s testimony:
[345] The goddess herself, sitting in a cart, entered the Capene Gate:
Fresh flowers were scattered over the yoked oxen.
Nasica received her. The name of her temple�s founder is lost:
Augustus has re-dedicated it, and, before him, Metellus.

*Translation: A.S. Kline, � 2004.*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est pridie Nonas Aprilis; haec dies comitialis est.

"Let the sky turn three times on its axis,
Let the Sun three times yoke and loose his horses,
And the Berecyntian flute will begin sounding
Its curved horn, it will be the Idaean Mother's feast.
Eunuchs will march, and sound the hollow drums,
And cymbal will clash with cymbal, in ringing tones:
Seated on the soft necks of her servants, she'll be carried
With howling, through the midst of the City streets.
The stage is set: the games are calling. Watch, then,
Quirites, and let those legal wars in the fora cease.

I'd like to ask many things, but I'm made fearful
By shrill clash of bronze, and curved flute's dreadful drone.
`Lend me someone to ask, goddess.' Cybele spying her learned
randdaughters, the Muses, ordered them to take care of me.
`Nurslings of Helicon, mindful of her orders, reveal
Why the Great Goddess delights in continual din.'
So I spoke. And Erato replied (it fell to her to peak about
Venus' month, because her name derives from tender love):
`Saturn was granted this prophecy: "Noblest of kings,
You'll be ousted by your own son's sceptre."
The god, fearful, devoured his children as soon as
Born, and then retained them deep in his guts.

Often Rhea (Cybele) complained, at being so often pregnant,
Yet never a mother, and grieved at her own fruitfulness.
Then Jupiter was born (ancient testimony is credited
By most: so please don't disturb the accepted belief):
A stone, concealed in clothing, went down Saturn's throat,
So the great progenitor was deceived by the fates.
Now steep Ida echoed to a jingling music,
So the child might cry from its infant mouth, in safety.
Some beat shields with sticks, others empty helmets:
That was the Curetes' and the Corybantes' task.
The thing was hidden, and the ancient deed's still acted out:
The goddess's servants strike the bronze and sounding skins.
They beat cymbals for helmets, drums instead of shields:
The flute plays, as long ago, in the Phrygian mode.'
The goddess ceased. I began: `Why do fierce lions
Yield untamed necks to the curving yoke for her?'
I ceased. The goddess began: `It's thought their ferocity
Was first tamed by her: the testament to it's her chariot.'
`But why is her head weighed down by a turreted crown?
Is it because she granted towers to the first cities?'
She nodded. I said `Where did this urge to cut off
Their members come from?' As I ended, the Muse spoke:
`In the woods, a Phrygian boy, Attis, of handsome face,
on the tower-bearing goddess with his chaste passion.
She desired him to serve her, and protect her temple,
And said: "Wish, you might be a boy for ever."
He promised to be true, and said: "If I'm lying
May the love I fail in be my last love."
He did fail, and in meeting the nymph Sagaritis,
Abandoned what he was: the goddess, angered, avenged it.
She destroyed the Naiad, by wounding a tree,
Since the tree contained the Naiad's fate.
Attis was maddened, and thinking his chamber's roof
Was falling, fled for the summit of Mount Dindymus.
Now he cried: "Remove the torches", now he cried:
"Take the whips away": often swearing he saw the Furies.
He tore at his body too with a sharp stone,
And dragged his long hair in the filthy dust,
Shouting: "I deserved this! I pay the due penalty
In blood! Ah! Let the parts that harmed me, perish!
Let them perish!" cutting away the burden of his groin,
And suddenly bereft of every mark of manhood.
His madness set a precedent, and his unmanly servants
Toss their hair, and cut off their members as if worthless.'
So the Aonian Muse, eloquently answering the question
I'd asked her, regarding the causes of their madness.
`Guide of my work, I beg you, teach me also, where She
Was brought from. Was she always resident in our City?
`The Mother Goddess always loved Dindymus, Cybele,
And Ida, with its pleasant streams, and the Trojan realm:
And when Aeneas brought Troy to Italian fields, the goddess
Almost followed those ships that carried the sacred relics.
But she felt that fate didn't require her powers in Latium,
So she stayed behind in her long-accustomed place.
Later, when Rome was more than five centuries old,
And had lifted its head above the conquered world,
The priest consulted the fateful words of Euboean prophecy:
They say that what he found there was as follows:
`The Mother's absent: Roman, I command you: seek the Mother.
When she arrives, she must be received in chaste hands.'
The dark oracle's ambiguity set the senators puzzling
As to who that parent might be, and where to seek her.
Apollo was consulted, and replied: `Fetch the Mother
Of all the Gods, who you'll find there on Mount Ida.'
Noblemen were sent. Attalus at that time held
The Phrygian sceptre: he refused the Italian lords.
Marvellous to tell, the earth shook with long murmurs,
And the goddess, from her shrine, spoke as follows:
`I myself wished them to seek me: don't delay: send me,
Willingly. Rome is a worthy place for all divinities.'
Quaking with fear at her words, Attalus, said: `Go,
You'll still be ours: Rome claims Phrygian ancestry.'
Immediately countless axes felled the pine-trees
Those trees pious Aeneas employed for his flight:
A thousand hands work, and the heavenly Mother
Soon has a hollow ship, painted in fiery colours.
She's carried in perfect safety over her son's waves,
And reaches the long strait named for Phrixus' sister,
Passes fierce Rhoetum and the Sigean shore,
And Tenedos and Eetion's ancient kingdom.
Leaving Lesbos behind she then steered for the Cyclades,
And the waves that break on Euboea's Carystian shoals.
She passed the Icarian Sea, as well, where Icarus shed
His melting wings, giving his name to a vast tract of water.
Then leaving Crete to larboard, and the Pelopian waves
To starboard, she headed for Cythera, sacred to Venus.
From there to the Sicilian Sea, where Brontes, Steropes
And Aemonides forge their red-hot iron,
Then, skirting African waters, she saw the Sardinian
Realm behind to larboard, and reached our Italy.
She'd arrived at the mouth (ostia) where the Tiber divides
To meet the deep, and flows with a wider sweep:
All the Knights, grave Senators, and commoners,
Came to meet her at the mouth of the Tuscan river.
With them walked mothers, daughters, and brides,
And all those virgins who tend the sacred fires.
The men wearied their arms hauling hard on the ropes:
The foreign vessel barely made way against the stream.
For a long time there'd been a drought: the grass was dry
And scorched: the boat stuck fast in the muddy shallows.
Every man, hauling, laboured beyond his strength,
And encouraged their toiling hands with his cries.
Yet the ship lodged there, like an island fixed in mid-ocean:
And astonished at the portent, men stood and quaked.
Claudia Quinta traced her descent from noble Clausus,
And her beauty was in no way unequal to her nobility:
She was chaste, but not believed so: hostile rumour
had wounded her, false charges were levelled at her:
Her elegance, promenading around in various hairstyles,
And her ready tongue, with stiff old men, counted against her.
Conscious of virtue, she laughed at the rumoured lies,
But we're always ready to credit others with faults.
Now, when she'd stepped from the line of chaste women,
Taking pure river water in her hands, she wetted her head
Three times, three times lifted her palms to the sky,
(Everyone watching her thought she'd lost her mind)
Then, kneeling, fixed her eyes on the goddess's statue,
And, with loosened hair, uttered these words:
"Kind and fruitful Mother of the Gods, accept
A suppliant's prayers, on this one condition:
They deny I'm chaste: let me be guilty if you condemn me:
Convicted by a goddess I'll pay for it with my life.
But if I'm free of guilt, grant a pledge of my innocence
By your action: and, chaste, give way to my chaste hands."
She spoke: then gave a slight pull at the rope,
(A wonder, but the sacred drama attests what I say):
The goddess stirred, followed, and, following, approved her:
Witness the sound of jubilation carried to the stars.
They came to a bend in the river (called of old
The Halls of Tiber): there the stream turns left, ascending.
Night fell: they tied the rope to an oak stump,
And, having eaten, settled to a tranquil sleep.
Dawn rose: they loosed the rope from the oak stump,
After first laying a fire and offering incense,
And crowned the stern, and sacrificed a heifer
Free of blemish, that had never known yoke or bull.
There's a place where smooth-flowing Almo joins the Tiber,
And the lesser flow loses its name in the greater:
There, a white-headed priest in purple robes
Washed the Lady, and sacred relics, in Almo's water.
The attendants howled, and the mad flutes blew,
And soft hands beat at the bull's-hide drums.
Claudia walked in front with a joyful face,
Her chastity proven by the goddess's testimony:
The goddess herself, sitting in a cart, entered the Capene Gate:
Fresh flowers were scattered over the yoked oxen.
Nasica received her. The name of her temple's founder is lost:
Augustus has re-dedicated it, and, before him, Metellus.'
Here Erato ceased. There was a pause for me to ask more:
I said: `Why does the goddess collect money in small coins?'
She said: `The people gave coppers, with which Metellus
Built her shrine, so now there's a tradition of giving them.'
I asked why people entertain each other at feasts,
And invite others to banquets, more than at other times.
She said: `It's because the Berecynthian goddess by good luck
Changed her house, and they try for the same luck, by their visits.'
I was about to ask why the Megalesia are the first games
Of the City's year, when the goddess (anticipating) said:
`She gave birth to the gods. They yielded to their mother,
And she was given the honour of precedence.'
Why then do we call those who castrate themselves, Galli,
When the Gallic country's so far from Phrygia?'
`Between green Cybele and high Celaenae,' she said,
`Runs a river of maddening water, called the Gallus.
Whoever drinks of it, is crazed: keep far away, all you
Who desire a sound mind: who drinks of it is crazed.'
`They consider it no shame to set a dish of salad
On the Lady's table. What's the reason?' I asked.
She replied: `It's said the ancients lived on milk,
And on herbs that the earth produced of itself.
Now they mix cream cheese with pounded herbs,
so the ancient goddess might know the ancient food.'" - Ovid, Fasti IV

"Although Africa had not been officially placed among the provinces-
the senators, I think, kept it secret to prevent the Carthaginians
from getting information beforehand-the citizens fully expected that
Africa would be the scene of hostilities this year, and that the end
of the Punic War was not far off. In this state of excitement men's
minds were filled with superstition and the ready credence given to
announcement of portents increased their number. Two suns were said to
have been seen; there were intervals of daylight during the night; a
meteor was seen to shoot from east to west; a gate at Tarracina and at
Anagnia a gate and several portions of the wall were struck by
lightning; in the temple of Juno Sospita at Lanuvium a crash followed
by a dreadful roar was heard. To expiate these portents special
intercessions were offered for a whole day, and in consequence of a
shower of stones a nine days' solemnity of prayer and sacrifice was
observed. The reception of Mater Idaea was also being anxiously
discussed. M. Valerius, the member of the deputation who had come in
advance, had reported that she would be in Italy almost immediately
and a fresh messenger had brought word that she was already at
Tarracina. The attention of the senate was engrossed by a very
difficult question; they had to decide who was the best and noblest
man in the State. Every one felt that to gain this distinction would
be for him a real victory, far outweighing any official position or
honourable distinction which either patricians or plebeians could
confer. Of all the great and good men in the State they adjudged the
best and noblest to be P. Scipio, the son of the Cnaeus Scipio who had
fallen in Spain; a young man not yet old enough to be quaestor. What
special merits of his induced the senate to come to this conclusion I
should have been glad to record for posterity had the writers who
lived nearest to those days handed them down. As it is I will not
obtrude my conjectures upon a matter hidden in the mists of antiquity.

P. Scipio was ordered to go to Ostia, accompanied by all the matrons,
to meet the goddess. He was to receive her as she left the vessel, and
when brought to land he was to place her in the hands of the matrons
who were to bear her to her destination. As soon as the ship appeared
off the mouth of the Tiber he put out to sea in accordance with his
instructions, received the goddess from the hands of her priestesses,
and brought her to land. Here she was received by the foremost matrons
of the City, amongst whom the name of Claudia Quinta stands out pre-
eminently. According to the traditional account her reputation had
previously been doubtful, but this sacred function surrounded her with
a halo of chastity in the eyes of posterity. The matrons, each taking
their turn in bearing the sacred image, carried the goddess into the
temple of Victory on the Palatine. All the citizens flocked out to
meet them, censers in which incense was burning were placed before the
doors in the streets through which she was borne, and from all lips
arose the prayer that she would of her own free will and favour be
pleased to enter Rome. The day on which this event took place was 12th
April, and was observed as a festival; the people came in crowds to
make their offerings to the deity; a lectisternium was held and Games
were constituted which were known afterwards as the Megalesian." -
Livy, History of Rome 29.14

"The other consul, Publius Cornelius Scipio, had in the ballot drawn
Gaul as his province. Before leaving for the coming war with the Boii
he asked the senate to vote a sum of money for the Games which he had
vowed in the crisis of battle during his praetorship in Spain. They
looked upon his request as unprecedented and unjustifiable and passed
a resolution to the effect that as he had vowed Games on his own
initiative without consulting the senate he should meet the cost of
them from the proceeds of the spoils taken from the enemy, if he had
any money reserved for the purpose, otherwise he must bear the expense
himself. He celebrated the Games for ten days. The temple of Mater
Magna Idaea was dedicated about this time. It was during the
consulship of P. C. Scipio-afterwards called Africanus-and P. Licinius
that the goddess was brought from Asia; the above-named P. Cornelius
conducted her from the harbour to the Palatine. The censors, M. Livius
and C. Claudius, had signed the contract for the building in
accordance with instructions from the senate during the consulship of
M. Cornelius and P. Sempronius. After the lapse of thirteen years M.
Junius Brutus dedicated it, and the Games which were exhibited on the
occasion of its dedication were, according to Valerius Antias, the
first scenic Games ever given and were called the Megalesia. Another
dedication was that of the temple of Juventas in the Circus Maximus,
which was carried out by C. Licinius Lucullus. M. Livius had vowed it
on the day when he destroyed Hasdrubal and his army, and when he was
censor he signed the contract for its construction in the consulship
of M. Cornelius and P. Sempronius. Games were celebrated in connection
with this dedication also and everything was done with greater
solemnity in view of the war which was impending with Antiochus." -
op. cit. 36.36

Today begin the Megalesia, the games in honor of the Great Goddess,
the Magna Mater. On the day the statue of the goddess Cybele was
first brought to Rome, in 203 BC, Cybele was honored with a
procession and games. The regular celebration of the Megalesia,
however, did not begin till twelve years later (191 BC), when the
temple which had been vowed and ordered to be built in 203 BC was
completed and dedicated by M. Junius Brutus. Slaves were not
permitted to be present at the games, and the magistrates appeared
dressed in a purple toga and praetexta, whence the proverb "purpura
Megalensis". The games were under the superintendence of the curule
aediles.

Around 200 BC the holy black rock of the goddess was moved from the
Phrygian city of Pessinos, which had been the previous centre of her
worship. Rome became the new centre, and her cult grew. The Romans
identified Cybele with the Greek Rhea, and called her Magna Mater,
the Great Mother. The priests of the cult were men who had castrated
themselves in front of her image, but most of the followers were
women. The cult was a tumultuous, noisy and ecstatic affair which
attracted many people. Only women (and castrated men) were allowed to
attend the main celebrations of the goddess, which quickly got the
reputation of being less religious ritual and more wild orgies. Much
gossip went around about the indecencies and depravities of the cult,
but due to the protection of influential people it avoided
persecution.

The cult was led by the female priestesses and the Archigalli, the
high priest of the subordinate Galli: castrated male priests who were
responsible for most of the dance, divination and healing of the
cult. Many of the worshipers were organised into fraternities, most
notably the Dendrophori ("Tree-bearers") and Cannophori ("Reed-
bearers"). Members of these fraternities enjoyed a bit of social
status and influence, and many important people flocked to them. The
liturgy of the cult was in Greek.

Many of the ceremonies commemorated the deeds of Magna Mater and her
love to Attis, who represented the fertility and plants of the land.
By his castration and death the land was given new life. Many
festivals were held, called ludi ("plays") which were enthusiastic
carnivals with banquets and comedic performances. One of the major
festivals was Megalesia the 4-10 April. The Cannophori carried reeds and stalks to the temple together with the idol of Attis. After three days of sorrow and grief for Attis, the carnival returned with Hilaria, the Day of Joy as Attis was transformed into a pine tree and fertility yet again reigned thanks to the power of Magna Mater.

Mountains and caves were sacred to Magna Mater, and her temples were
often built near them. By sleeping in a temple many women hoped to
get help from the goddess, who was said to help mothers and children.
Midwifes were tied to the cult, and many priests were healers. The
priestesses were more involved with her ecstatic side, celebrating
her secret mysteries behind locked doors. Practically nothing is
known about them, except that they were exclusively women only.

In the end, the cult vanished together with most other mystery cults
of the antique era as Christianity took power and Rome was plundered.
However, the cult was tenacious and left many tracks. St. Peter's
basilica in the Vatican is built right on top of the old temple of
Magna Mater, and some parts are presumably left under the
foundations. Cybele was worshiped under the names Kubaba and Kuba in
Arabia, and Khaba in Mecca was originally a shrine to her. Many early
Christians identified her with Mary. In the second century an ex-
priest of Cybele named Montanus proclaimed that Christ was an
incarnation of Attis and that women were the agents of the Great
Mother and could prophesy as well as men. Naturally Montanism was
declared as a heresy in the 4th century and was crushed.

Valete bene!

Cato

Sta. Cornelia Juliana Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.


Today is the first day of the Certamen Historicum- Republican Era Quiz.
Today is Dies 1, each correct question is worth five points each... DO NOT
(not yelling just emphasizing) answer on the ML please submit your answers
to the following e-mail address: MusesDream@... with the subject
header "History Quiz".. The last day to send in answers will be on April
10th...

Gratias and Bona Fortuna!


1a. What was the name of the consular that the geese awoke during the Gallic
assault on

the Capitol in 390 BC?

1b. When was he consul?

1c. According to tradition when was he condemned to death?

1.d Why was he condemned to death?

2. What is the Latin title of the quaestors who presided in capital cases?

3. Who were the first five tribunes of the plebs?

4. Why did the patricians allow the passage of the Canuleian lex on
intermarriage between patricians and plebeians in 445 BC?

Vale Optime,
Statia Cornelia Juliana Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus pontifex Quiritibus s. p. d.
 
In the name of the aediles Cornelia Aeternia and A. Vitellius, and on the behalf of the Nova Roman State, I have offered the solemn Megalesia sacrifice to Magna Mater, a Goddess with whom Nova Roma has a special connection.
 
I asked her blessings on Nova Roma on the occasion of her games, and I also asked her forgiveness for our failures and mistakes with her sacred project, the now-dissolved Magna Mater Project, for which handling expiations were due to the Goddess Great Mather.
 
Happy Megalesia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
The sacrifice has been this:
 
Magna Mater Deum Idaea,
te hoc thure obmovendo bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitia Novae Romae,
mihi, domo, familiae!
 
Magna Mater Deum Idaea,
uti te thure dato bonas preces precatus sum,
eiudem rei ergo macte hoc lacte libando
esto fito volens propitia Novae Romae,
mihi domo familiae!
 
Magna Mater Deum Idaea,
te quaesumus veneramur precamur
uti hisce ludis Megalensibus tuis sactissimis
Novam Romam augeas, adiuves, confirmes,
utique negligentiam erga te nostram ignoscas,
atque uti nobis ignoscas propter vitia nostra
facta de Proiecto Magnae Matris!
 
Harum rerum ergo macte
hoc lacte melle mixto
et hoc thure dato
esto fito volens propitia Novae Romae
mihi domo familiae!
 
Magna Mater Deum Idaea,
si quid vitii in hac caerimonia infuit,
ex te veniam peto,
et vitium meum hoc lacte dato expio.
 
 
 VIVANT LUDI MEGALENSES!
 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus scriba aedilicius Quiritibus s. p. d.
 
 
I salute you, my People, my friends, my brothers and sisters, Nova Romans, in the name of your aediles curules, and I wish you a Happy Megalesia!
 
This is the second Latin Contest this year, and it will be a different, more colorful one. The questions and tasks will be of entirely different nature each day, and everyone can participate from beginners to advanced level. There's no limit!
 
Let's honor Nova Roma's special Goddess Magna Mater by honoring our spiritual mother tongue, the Latin. The language that makes us Roman. The language of our identity. The language of the Gods. Hail and long live to Latin!
 
APRIL 4TH - QUESTION # 1
 
Use Latin constructions with salutations and greetings. Put the following names below into the form required by Latin grammar, after studying this article:
 
http://novaroma.org/nr/Latin_for_e-mail
 
Address people using both the "Salve!" construction, and the "salutem plurimam dicit" construction. When using the "salutem plurimam dicit" construction, use your own fully spelled Roman name to indicate the sender.
 
Example:
 
Gaius Aurelius Cotta
 
1. Salve, Gai Aureli Cotta!
2. Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus Gaio Aurelio Cottae salutem plurimam dicit 
 
Titus Iulius Sabinus
 
1. Salve, ______________!
2. ___________________   ______________________ salutem plurimam dicit 
 
Aula Tullia Scholastica
 

1. Salve, ______________!
2. ___________________   ______________________ salutem plurimam dicit 
 
Publius Memmius Albucius
 

1. Salve, ______________!
2. ___________________   ______________________ salutem plurimam dicit 
 
Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus
 

1. Salve, ______________!
2. ___________________   ______________________ salutem plurimam dicit 
 
Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus Pius
 

1. Salve, ______________!
2. ___________________   ______________________ salutem plurimam dicit 
 
Marcus Iulius Perusianus
 

1. Salve, ______________!
2. ___________________   ______________________ salutem plurimam dicit 
 
Lucius Lucretius Caupo
 

1. Salve, ______________!
2. ___________________   ______________________ salutem plurimam dicit 
 
Gaius Popillius Laenas
 

1. Salve, ______________!
2. ___________________   ______________________ salutem plurimam dicit 
 
Vibia Rutilia Enodiaria
 

1. Salve, ______________!
2. ___________________   ______________________ salutem plurimam dicit 
 
Gaius Aquillius Rota
 

1. Salve, ______________!
2. ___________________   ______________________ salutem plurimam dicit 
 
 
RULES OF THE CERTAMEN LATINUM MEGALENSE
 
1. All answers must be sent not to this address but to: cnaeus_cornelius@...
2. Please do *not* post answers to the list! Any answer sent publicly disqualifies the contenstant from receiving point for that answer.
3. Answers may be sent until the solutions are published, but at least within 24 hours of posting the question.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

And now the time has come for those with the skill to pull out those
quills. (Look I rhymed) Join the Parody Contest. The Theme is "A Day In
The Life of Nova Roma" it can be about anything NR related.. Minimum is
1500 words or less, please send entries to MusesDream@... subject
header "Parody Contest". Due date for the entries is April 15th.


And to judge this wonderful contest are the following fabulous Quartet:

I. Princep Senatus D. Iunius Palladius Invictus
II. Magistra et Senatrix A. Tullia Scholastica
III. Senator G. Popillius Laenas
IV. Aedilis Sta. Cornelia Aeternia


So come and join in and participate in the Parody Contest!


P.S. The Sponsors meaning the Aedilician Cohors ask that participants submit
entries that are in good taste and decorum..

P.S.S. Yes there is loot involved..


Gratias tibi ago et Bona Fortuna!


Vale Optime,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve et Salvete Omnes:

See I told you all the Latin contest was a surprise, what a great contest!


Hopefully this doesn't give any answers away, but I did have one quick
question Lentule.

Could you give an example say with "Salve" construction with your name
because Gnaeus/Cnaeus seems a bit tricky to switch up...


Just as an example for those that are curious.


Vale et Valete,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Aeternia

Gnaeus is always spelled with a Gn, it is always abbreviated Cn. The vocative or "salve construction" is Gnae or Gnaee. Gaius is always spelled with a G but abbreviated with a C and the vocative is Gai.
Hope that helps, and yes, I know my name is not Lentulus.

Vale bene

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...> wrote:
>
> Salve et Salvete Omnes:
>
> See I told you all the Latin contest was a surprise, what a great contest!
>
>
> Hopefully this doesn't give any answers away, but I did have one quick
> question Lentule.
>
> Could you give an example say with "Salve" construction with your name
> because Gnaeus/Cnaeus seems a bit tricky to switch up...
>
>
> Just as an example for those that are curious.
>
>
> Vale et Valete,
> Aeternia
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Ave Julia,

*waves to Julia* So that's what it is cool beans..

So your name in "Salve Construction" would be:

Salve, Luci Iuli Aquila?

I'm probably off the mark a little for the wheelock book is not in front of
me as I type this lol.


Vale bene,
Aeternia



On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:28 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <
luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

>
>
> Ave Aeternia
>
> Gnaeus is always spelled with a Gn, it is always abbreviated Cn. The
> vocative or "salve construction" is Gnae or Gnaee. Gaius is always spelled
> with a G but abbreviated with a C and the vocative is Gai.
> Hope that helps, and yes, I know my name is not Lentulus.
>
> Vale bene
>
> Julia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Salve et Salvete Omnes:
> >
> > See I told you all the Latin contest was a surprise, what a great
> contest!
> >
> >
> > Hopefully this doesn't give any answers away, but I did have one quick
> > question Lentule.
> >
> > Could you give an example say with "Salve" construction with your name
> > because Gnaeus/Cnaeus seems a bit tricky to switch up...
> >
> >
> > Just as an example for those that are curious.
> >
> >
> > Vale et Valete,
> > Aeternia
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

Sometimes I do come across as a virtual game hostess with this :-)


Omnes, it's a new game.. Haven't you heard..

It's called guess that passage.. During the Ludi we'll be doing alot of
different things with plays and other aspects of Theater.

This is the first passage, your job and that goes to all the citizens who
wish to participate.

Is you have to guess which play does this come from and who wrote it.
Anyone can participate!

Below is a snippet in both Latin and English. Answers will be revealed
tomorrow including who did the translating..


*Argumentum*


*Mercator Siculus, quoi erant gemini filli,
Ei surrupto altero mors optigit.
Nomen surreptici illi indit qui domist,
Avis paternus, facit Menaechmum e Sosicle.
Et is germanum postquam adolevit, quaeritat
Circum omnis oras. post Epidamnum devenit:
Hic fuerat alitus ille surrepticius.
Menachmum omnes cives credunt advenam
Eumque appellant meretrix, uxor et socer.
I se cognoscunt fratres postremo invicem.
*
*The Argument *
*Two twinborn sons, a Sicil merchant had,
Menechmus one, and Sosicles the other:
The first his father lost a little lad,
The Grandsire named the latter like his brother.
This, grown a man, long travel took to seek
His brother, and to Epidamnum came,
Where th'other dwelt enrich'd, and him so like,
That citizens there take him for the same:
Father, wife, neighbours, each mistaking either,
Much pleasant error, ere they meet together.
*

With this the responses can be made public.

Bona Fortuna!

Vale Optime,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Aeternia

*smiles* female names do not have a vocative change therefore:
Vocative: Salve Lucia Julia Aquila

They do change in the dative or the "SPD construction":
Dative: Statia Aeternia etcetera etcetera aed. cur. Luciae Iuliae Aquilae S.P.D.

Vale bene

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...> wrote:
>
> Ave Julia,
>
> *waves to Julia* So that's what it is cool beans..
>
> So your name in "Salve Construction" would be:
>
> Salve, Luci Iuli Aquila?
>
> I'm probably off the mark a little for the wheelock book is not in front of
> me as I type this lol.
>
>
> Vale bene,
> Aeternia
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:28 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Ave Aeternia
> >
> > Gnaeus is always spelled with a Gn, it is always abbreviated Cn. The
> > vocative or "salve construction" is Gnae or Gnaee. Gaius is always spelled
> > with a G but abbreviated with a C and the vocative is Gai.
> > Hope that helps, and yes, I know my name is not Lentulus.
> >
> > Vale bene
> >
> > Julia
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve et Salvete Omnes:
> > >
> > > See I told you all the Latin contest was a surprise, what a great
> > contest!
> > >
> > >
> > > Hopefully this doesn't give any answers away, but I did have one quick
> > > question Lentule.
> > >
> > > Could you give an example say with "Salve" construction with your name
> > > because Gnaeus/Cnaeus seems a bit tricky to switch up...
> > >
> > >
> > > Just as an example for those that are curious.
> > >
> > >
> > > Vale et Valete,
> > > Aeternia
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salve,

Yep I knew it way way off the mark......

Gotcha.

Vale,
Aeternia

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 3:31 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <
luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Ave Aeternia
>
> *smiles* female names do not have a vocative change therefore:
> Vocative: Salve Lucia Julia Aquila
>
> They do change in the dative or the "SPD construction":
> Dative: Statia Aeternia etcetera etcetera aed. cur. Luciae Iuliae Aquilae
> S.P.D.
>
>
> Vale bene
>
> Julia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Ave Julia,
> >
> > *waves to Julia* So that's what it is cool beans..
> >
> > So your name in "Salve Construction" would be:
> >
> > Salve, Luci Iuli Aquila?
> >
> > I'm probably off the mark a little for the wheelock book is not in front
> of
> > me as I type this lol.
> >
> >
> > Vale bene,
> > Aeternia
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:28 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> > luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ave Aeternia
> > >
> > > Gnaeus is always spelled with a Gn, it is always abbreviated Cn. The
> > > vocative or "salve construction" is Gnae or Gnaee. Gaius is always
> spelled
> > > with a G but abbreviated with a C and the vocative is Gai.
> > > Hope that helps, and yes, I know my name is not Lentulus.
> > >
> > > Vale bene
> > >
> > > Julia
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Salve et Salvete Omnes:
> > > >
> > > > See I told you all the Latin contest was a surprise, what a great
> > > contest!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Hopefully this doesn't give any answers away, but I did have one
> quick
> > > > question Lentule.
> > > >
> > > > Could you give an example say with "Salve" construction with your
> name
> > > > because Gnaeus/Cnaeus seems a bit tricky to switch up...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Just as an example for those that are curious.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Vale et Valete,
> > > > Aeternia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave

Menaechmi (The Twin Brothers) Plautus

Cura ut valeas

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...> wrote:
>
> Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.
>
> Sometimes I do come across as a virtual game hostess with this :-)
>
>
> Omnes, it's a new game.. Haven't you heard..
>
> It's called guess that passage.. During the Ludi we'll be doing alot of
> different things with plays and other aspects of Theater.
>
> This is the first passage, your job and that goes to all the citizens who
> wish to participate.
>
> Is you have to guess which play does this come from and who wrote it.
> Anyone can participate!
>
> Below is a snippet in both Latin and English. Answers will be revealed
> tomorrow including who did the translating..
>
>
> *Argumentum*
>
>
> *Mercator Siculus, quoi erant gemini filli,
> Ei surrupto altero mors optigit.
> Nomen surreptici illi indit qui domist,
> Avis paternus, facit Menaechmum e Sosicle.
> Et is germanum postquam adolevit, quaeritat
> Circum omnis oras. post Epidamnum devenit:
> Hic fuerat alitus ille surrepticius.
> Menachmum omnes cives credunt advenam
> Eumque appellant meretrix, uxor et socer.
> I se cognoscunt fratres postremo invicem.
> *
> *The Argument *
> *Two twinborn sons, a Sicil merchant had,
> Menechmus one, and Sosicles the other:
> The first his father lost a little lad,
> The Grandsire named the latter like his brother.
> This, grown a man, long travel took to seek
> His brother, and to Epidamnum came,
> Where th'other dwelt enrich'd, and him so like,
> That citizens there take him for the same:
> Father, wife, neighbours, each mistaking either,
> Much pleasant error, ere they meet together.
> *
>
> With this the responses can be made public.
>
> Bona Fortuna!
>
> Vale Optime,
> Aeternia
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Ave Aeternia

Not too off - you just gave me a gender change:) "Lucius iulius"*laughs*

Well back to playing with the Tornados. My home Internet is still down, they closed the office due to the storms.

Vale bene

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> Yep I knew it way way off the mark......
>
> Gotcha.
>
> Vale,
> Aeternia
>
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 3:31 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Ave Aeternia
> >
> > *smiles* female names do not have a vocative change therefore:
> > Vocative: Salve Lucia Julia Aquila
> >
> > They do change in the dative or the "SPD construction":
> > Dative: Statia Aeternia etcetera etcetera aed. cur. Luciae Iuliae Aquilae
> > S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > Vale bene
> >
> > Julia
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Ave Julia,
> > >
> > > *waves to Julia* So that's what it is cool beans..
> > >
> > > So your name in "Salve Construction" would be:
> > >
> > > Salve, Luci Iuli Aquila?
> > >
> > > I'm probably off the mark a little for the wheelock book is not in front
> > of
> > > me as I type this lol.
> > >
> > >
> > > Vale bene,
> > > Aeternia
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 2:28 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> > > luciaiuliaaquila@> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Ave Aeternia
> > > >
> > > > Gnaeus is always spelled with a Gn, it is always abbreviated Cn. The
> > > > vocative or "salve construction" is Gnae or Gnaee. Gaius is always
> > spelled
> > > > with a G but abbreviated with a C and the vocative is Gai.
> > > > Hope that helps, and yes, I know my name is not Lentulus.
> > > >
> > > > Vale bene
> > > >
> > > > Julia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Salve et Salvete Omnes:
> > > > >
> > > > > See I told you all the Latin contest was a surprise, what a great
> > > > contest!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hopefully this doesn't give any answers away, but I did have one
> > quick
> > > > > question Lentule.
> > > > >
> > > > > Could you give an example say with "Salve" construction with your
> > name
> > > > > because Gnaeus/Cnaeus seems a bit tricky to switch up...
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Just as an example for those that are curious.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Vale et Valete,
> > > > > Aeternia
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.


Behold passage #2 name of the play and the Author... In Latin and English...


Nunc cuius iussu venio et quam ob rem venerim dicam simulque ipse eloquar
nomen meum.
Iovis iussu venio, nomen Mercurio est mihi. pater huc me misit ad vos
oratum meus, 20 tam etsi,
pro imperio vobis quod dictum foret, scibat facturos, quippe qui
intellexerat vereri vos se et metuere, ita ut aequom est Iovem;


Now I will tell you who bade me come, and why I came, and likewise myself
state my own name. Jupiter bade me come: my name is Mercury (*pauses,
evidently hoping he has made an impression*). My father has sent me here to
you to make a plea, yea, albeit he knew that whatever was told you in way of
command you would do, inasmuch as he realized that you revere and dread him
as men should Jupiter.

Answer will be revealed tomorrow.

Again Bona Fortuna!

Vale Optime,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Iterum,

Just a quick sidenote on this..


Yes the Parody Contest can also be done in Latin if the particpant so
wishes..

Same rules do apply..

Vale bene,
Aeternia

On Mon, Apr 4, 2011 at 1:39 PM, Belle Morte Statia
<syrenslullaby@...>wrote:

> Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.
>
> And now the time has come for those with the skill to pull out those
> quills. (Look I rhymed) Join the Parody Contest. The Theme is "A Day In
> The Life of Nova Roma" it can be about anything NR related.. Minimum is
> 1500 words or less, please send entries to MusesDream@... subject
> header "Parody Contest". Due date for the entries is April 15th.
>
>
> And to judge this wonderful contest are the following fabulous Quartet:
>
> I. Princep Senatus D. Iunius Palladius Invictus
> II. Magistra et Senatrix A. Tullia Scholastica
> III. Senator G. Popillius Laenas
> IV. Aedilis Sta. Cornelia Aeternia
>
>
> So come and join in and participate in the Parody Contest!
>
>
> P.S. The Sponsors meaning the Aedilician Cohors ask that participants
> submit entries that are in good taste and decorum..
>
> P.S.S. Yes there is loot involved..
>
>
> Gratias tibi ago et Bona Fortuna!
>
>
> Vale Optime,
> Statia Cornelia Aeternia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve et Salvete Omnes:


This is the final passage of the day, and this was not easy to find I would
like to say, guess the play and the Dramatist... In both Latin and
English. Answer will be revealed tomorrow..

Haec ecfatus pater, germana, repente recessit
Nec sese dedit in conspectum corde cupitus,
Quamquam multa manus ad caeli caerula templa
Tendebam lacrumans et blanda voce vocabam.
Vix aegro cum corde meo me somnus reliquit.


Father having said such things, sister, suddenly
went away and did not show himself although
I desired him in my heart, although I raised my hands
to the blue spaces of the sky weeping and I called him
with a winning call. Sleep relunctantly left me with my
heavy heart.

Enjoy et Bona Fortuna,
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est Nonae Apriles; hic dies nefastus est.

"O Universal Mother, who dost keep
From everlasting thy foundations deep,
Eldest of things, Great Earth, I sing of thee!
All shapes that have their dwelling in the sea,
All things that fly, or on the ground divine
Live, move, and there are nourished... these are thine;
These from thy wealth thou dost sustain; from thee
Fair babes are born, and fruits on every tree
Hang ripe and large, revered Divinity!

The life of mortal men beneath thy sway
Is held; thy power both gives and takes away!
Happy are they whom thy mild favors nourish;
All things unstinted round them grow and flourish.
For them, endures the life-sustaining field
Its load of harvest, and their cattle yield
Large increase, and their house with wealth is filled.
Such honoured dwell in cities fair and free,
The homes of lovely women, prosperously;
Their sons exult in youth's new budding gladness,
And their fresh daughters free from care or sadness,
With bloom-inwoven dance and happy song,
On the soft flowers the meadow-grass among,
Leap round them sporting...such delights by thee
Are given, rich Power, revered Divinity.
Mother of Gods, thou Wife of starry Heaven,
Farewell! be thou propitious, and be given
A happy life for this brief melody,
Nor thou nor other songs shall unremembered be." - Homer, Hymn to
Cybele (trans. Percy Bysshe Shelley)

"O happy to whom is the blessedness given,
To be taught in the Mysteries sent from heaven!
Who is pure in his life, through whose soul the Unsleeping
Revel goes sweeping!
Made meet by the sacred purifying
For the Bacchanal rout o'er the mountains flying,
For the orgies of Cybele, Mystery-folden,
Of the Mother Olden,
Wreathed with the ivy sprays,
The thyrsus on high doth he raise,
Singing the Vine God's praise!" - Euripides (attr.), Hymn to Cybele

"Mother of the immortal gods,
She prepares a fast-riding chariot, drawn by bull-slaying lions:
She who wields the Scepter over the renowned pole,
She of the many names, the Honored One!
Thou occupiest the Central Throne of the Cosmos,
and thus of the earth, while Thou providest delicate foods!
By Thee there was brought forth the race of immortal and mortal
beings!
By Thee, the rivers and the entire sea are ruled!
Go to the Feast, O Lofty One! Delighting in drums, Tamer of all,
Savior of the Phrygians, Bedfellow of Kronos, Child of Ouranos,
the Old One, Life-Giving, Frenzy-Loving, Joyful One.
gratified with acts of piety!
Generous Goddess of Ida, You, Mother of Gods,
Who takes delight in Dindyma, and in towered cities, and in lions
yoked in pairs, now guide me in the coming years!
Goddess, make this sign favorable!
Stride beside me with Your gracious step!" - Vergil, The Aenead

Originally a Phrygian goddess, insofar as the Hellenes were concerned,
Cybele was a manifestation of the Earth Mother who was worshipped in
Anatolia from Neolithic times. Like Gaia (the "Earth") or her Minoan
equivalent Rhea, Cybele embodies the fertile earth, a goddess of
caverns and mountains, walls and fortresses, nature, wild animals
(especially lions and bees). Her title potnia theron, which is also
associated with the Minoan Great Mother, alludes to her ancient
Neolithic roots as "Mistress of the Animals" . She becomes a life-
death-rebirth deity in connection with her consort, her son Attis. Her
Roman equivalent was Magna Mater or "Great Mother".

The goddess was known among the Greeks simply as Meter or Meter oreie
("Mountain-Mother"), or, with a particular Anatolian sacred mountain
in mind, Idaea, inasmuch as she was supposed to have been born on
Mount Ida in Asia Minor, or equally Dindymene or Sipylene, with her
sacred mountains Mount Dindymus (in Mysia) or Mount Sipylus in mind.

Cybele's most ecstatic followers were males who ritually castrated
themselves, after which they were given women's clothing and assumed
female identities, who were referred to by the third century
commentator Callimachus in the feminine Gallai, and who other
contemporary commentators in ancient Greece and Rome referred to as
Gallos or Galli. Her priestesses led the people in orgiastic
ceremonies with wild music, drumming, dancing and drink. She was
associated with the mystery religion concerning her son, Attis, who
was castrated and resurrected. The dactyls were part of her retinue.
Other followers of Cybele, Phrygian kurbantes or Corybantes, expressed
her ecstatic and orgiastic cult in music, especially drumming,
clashing of shields and spears, dancing, singing and shouts, all at
night.

Dionysus of Halicarnassus records that specific laws were passed when
some of the undesirable aspects of the cult became apparent. Cybele's
religion was a bloody cult that required its priests and priestesses
as well as followers to cut themselves during some rituals. The
priests castrated themselves at their initiation; there was wild
music, chanting, and frenzied dancing. During the Republic and early
Empire, festival days were celebrated with eunuchs preceding the
goddess through the streets, banging cymbals and drums, wearing bright
attire and heavy jewelry, their hair long and 'greased'. Priests and
priestesses were segregated, their activities confined to their
temples, and Roman citizens were not allowed to walk in procession
with them. Neither Roman citizens nor their slaves were allowed to
become priests or priestess in the cult. No native-born Roman citizen
was to be allowed to dress in bright colors, beg for alms, walk the
streets with flute players or worship the goddess in 'wild Phrygian
ceremonies'. Those Romans who wanted to continue to worship the
goddess set up secret societies known as sodalitates so they could
dine together in the goddess' honor. The goddess Cybele is usually
depicted in art with a crown and veil. She is sometimes pictured
seated on a throne or on a chariot pulled by lions.

Valete bene!

Cato