Salve Merula, et salvete omnes

No problem.

The way it is set out can look confusing. That is why I explained it again on the Britannia site.

There is a very easy and straightforward table divided up by lines and colours, but I cannot locate it immediately. Versions for previous years are available, but I don't think this year's version is on the "wiki" site yet.

This makes it very clear that the local currency is given simply for information. The tax rates are in Dollars, not local currencies. 12 Dollars has now become £7.31.

Vale, et valete omnes
Crispus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
>
> Salve
>
> i totally apologise for getting it mixed up. Put it down to brainfog :-)
> thank you for clearing this up
>
> Merula
>
>
> On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 9:06 PM, GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS <
> jbshr1pwa@...> wrote:
>
> > Salve Merula, et salvete omnes
> >
> > I explained the taxes some days ago on the Britannia site. Sadly you have
> > confused the position.
> >
> > The tax for ordinary citizens of Britannia who fall into the tax Tier 1 is
> > 12 US Dollars. That is the amount to be paid. In Dollars.
> >
> > The information that has been posted about tax rates also includes the
> > information that the UK currency is the £ Sterling. However, the tax rates
> > are not quoted in £ Sterling, but in US Dollars.
> >
> > It is therefore very straightforward. All citizens of Britannia except
> > myself should pay 12 Dollars. I have already paid my 17 Dollars (under Tier
> > 3).
> >
> > Do not attempt to convert the Dollar rate to Sterling. You will not arrive
> > at the correct value. Just pay the Dollars.
> >
> > Vale, et valete omnes
> > Crispus
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve
> > > Ah that makes more sense. the original posting said
> > >
> > >
> > > *Britannia* <
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Provincia_Britannia_%28Nova_Roma%29>
> > >
> > > 12,00
> > >
> > > 14,00
> > >
> > > 17,00
> > >
> > > British pounds (GBP)
> > >
> > > Now if we pay £12 that's actually $19.51 so there's a bit of a
> > difference.
> > > so is the first tir in the Uk just $12? that's about £7.38.
> > >
> > > Respectfully
> > > Merula
> > >
> > > On Fri, May 13, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Cato Popillio Laeno omnibusque in foro SPD
> > > >
> > > > I'm not sure what you mean, amice. The calculations are based on the
> > > > International Monetary Fund's listing for 2010, found here:
> > > >
> > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
> > > >
> > > > and, if you notice, the tiers 1-3 for the UK in our taxes are
> > > >
> > > > 1 - $12
> > > > 2 - $14
> > > > 3 - $17
> > > >
> > > > while the US is
> > > >
> > > > 1 - $16
> > > > 2 - $19
> > > > 3 - $24
> > > >
> > > > Vale et valete bene,
> > > >
> > > > Cato
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius" <gaiuspopillius@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ave,
> > > > >
> > > > > Whatever was used the calculation does not appear to make sense.
> > > > >
> > > > > Laenas
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est pridie Idus Maias; haec dies comitialis est.

"The day before the Ides is marked by Taurus lifting
His starry muzzle. The sign's explained by a familiar tale.
Jupiter, as a bull, offered his back to a Tyrian girl,
And carried horns on his deceptive forehead.
Europa grasped his hair in her right hand, her drapery
In her left, while fear itself lent her fresh grace.
The breeze filled her dress, ruffled her blonde hair:
Sidonian girl, like that, you were fit to be seen by Jove.
Often girlishly she withdrew her feet from the sea,
Fearing the touch of the leaping billows:
Often the god knowingly plunged his back in the waves,
So that she'd cling to his neck more tightly.
Reaching shore, the god was no longer a bull,
Jupiter stood there, without the horns.
The bull entered the heavens: you, Sidonian girl, Jove
Impregnated, and now a third of the world bears your name.
Others say the sign is Io, the Pharian heifer,
Turned from girl to cow, from cow to goddess.
On this day too, the Vestals throw effigies made of rushes,
In the form of men of old, from the oak bridge.
Some accuse our ancestors of a wicked crime,
Putting to death men over sixty years of age.
There's an old story, that when the land was 'Saturnia',
Jove, prophetically, said something like this:
'Throw two people into the Tuscan river,
As a sacrifice to the sickle-bearing Ancient.'
Until Tirynthian Hercules came to our fields,
The sad rite was performed each year, as at Leucas:
He threw Quirites of straw into the water:
And now they throw effigies in the same way.
Some think that the young men used to hurl
Feeble old men from the bridges, to steal their votes.
Tell me the truth, Tiber. Your shores pre-date the City,
You should know the true origin of the rite.
Tiber, crowned in reeds, lifted his head from mid-stream,
And opened his mouth to speak these words, hoarsely:
'I saw this place when it was grassland, without walls:
Cattle were scattered grazing on either bank,
And Tiber whom the nations know and fear,
Was disregarded then, even by the cattle.
Arcadian Evander is often named to you:
A stranger, he churned my waters with his oars.
Hercules came here too, with a crowd of Greeks,
(My name was Albula then, if I remember true)
Evander, hero from Pallantium, received him warmly,
And Cacus had the punishment he deserved.
The victor left, taking the cattle, his plunder from Erythea
With him, but his friends refused to go any further.
Most of them had come from deserted Argos:
They established their hopes, and houses, on our hills.
Yet sweet love for their native land often stirred them,
And one of them, in dying, gave this brief command:
"Throw me into the Tiber, that carried by Tiber's waves
My spiritless dust might journey to the Inachian shore."
That funeral duty laid on him, displeased his heir:
The dead stranger was buried in Italian ground,
And a rush effigy thrown into the Tiber instead,
To return to his Greek home over the wide waters.'
Tiber spoke, entering a moist cave of natural stone,
While you, gentle waters, checked your flow." - Ovid, Fasti V

The oldest tradition of the founding of Rome ascribes to Evander the
erection of the Great Altar of Hercules in the Forum Boarium. In
Virgil's Aeneid, where Aeneas and his crew first come upon them,
Evander and his people are engaged in venerating Hercules for having
dispatched the giant Cacus. Virgil's hearers recognized the very same
Great Altar of Hercules in the Forum Boarium of their own day, one
detail among the passages that Virgil has saturated with references
linking a heroic past with the Age of Augustus.

As Virgil's backstory goes, Hercules had been returning from Gades with Geryon's cattle when Evander entertained him and was the first to raise an altar to this hero. The archaic altar was destroyed in the Great Fire of Rome in AD 64. Evander was born to Mercury and Carmenta, and his wisdom was beyond that of all Arcadians. According to Virgil previous to the Trojan War he gathered a group of natives to a city he founded in Italy near the Tiber river, which he named Pallantium. Virgil states that he named the city in honor of his son, Pallas, although Pausanias says that Evander's birth city was Pallantium, thus he named the new city after the one in Arcadia. Evander was said to have brought to Rome the Greek pantheon, laws and alphabet sixty years before the Trojan War.

Valete bene!

Cato

Salvete omnes

I have detected that post 845000 from Chantal Gaudiano, which contains no text, contains a piece of malware.

I have deleted the post, but those who have already received it are advised not to open it.

Valete
Crispus

>
>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
> Reminder: The Grammatica Latina I class is now open for registration.
> All students must have the text (Wheelock¹s Latin, by Frederic Wheelock, Sixth
> edition revised by LaFleur) before being allowed to register, and must prove
> that to my satisfaction.
>
> This course will begin on Monday, August 29th and continue through
> approximately mid-May, with a winter break and possibly a spring one.
> Instruction is by a very traditional method, requiring memorization of
> vocabulary, grammatical paradigms, and syntactical rules, but we also add some
> modern Latin and material from outside the textbook even in the separate first
> semester course. After the first week, there is weekly written homework, and
> each semester will conclude with an examination.
>
> Those who continue on to the intermediate Grammatica II course will
> complete grammatical instruction around late February, and proceed to read
> genuine, unaltered selections from various Roman authors. Registration is
> also open in the Grammatica II course for those who have completed Grammatica
> I or who have completed the equivalent of Wheelock lesson 22 (all declensions
> and the indicative mood of the verb).
>
> We also teach Latin by an assimilation method, one which produces fluency
> in spoken and written Latin, but at present only the intermediate course is
> available for registration as both of the others are technically still in
> session: one class is working on its final and the teacher for the other
> should be correcting the submitted examinations. I recommend that those who
> attempt these Sermo Latinus courses have a thorough grounding in Latin before
> registering for them; several of the students are Latin teachers, or Latinists
> of varying sorts, and the fast pace of these courses requires a solid
> foundation.
>
> Those wishing to register for any of our Latin courses should contact me
> privately.
>
> Valete.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Avete Omnes,

I just read what Pontifex Maximus Sabinus wrote/forwarded on the CP and
something struck out as I read the final paragraph (of the Censor's
statement)...that just kinda struck me raw....the request of an answer
before the next ides of June before action is taken? Which, I think the
answer of possible actions would be none.

My problem is why is this issue even remotely more important than
say...developing job discriptions for all of the religio positions (which
upon reading the item brought by Censor Albucius - I feel it is LESS
important) than the development of clear measureable job descriptions so
that when individuals who are both currently IN the positions or might be
soon posted before said positions - would be able to function effectively.

So, if we have waited YEARS (See Pontifex Maximus I am not blaming you
personally) and are still waiting for job descriptions to be developed,
implemented and assessed...the very idea that something else can be
essentially ramrodded through sounds....well...not kosher.

Nevermind the fact that dealing with issue that the Censor raised, which
might or might not be valid ARE a distraction from the greater and MORE
IMPORTANT concern of job descriptions is in itself a distraction.

Vale,

Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Quiritibus s.d. Q Caecilius Metellus pontifex

Saluete, Quirites.

Let me first state my appreciation that Censor Albucius, as Aedilis
Curulis Aeternia earlier, has sought to have a matter decided by the
collegium pontificum utilising the responsum, following the mos
maiorum. This is something which has only exceptionally scarcely been
done in our own history, and has not ever been done by a number of
bodies of our Republic; I appreciate that the step is being taken
here. Indeed, the continued use of this method will only serve to
help build a cultus publicus that has already been damaged far too
much by the careless and reckless disregard shown by the responsible
bodies and individuals in the Collegium Pontificum over the years,
even including very recently.

Although the Collegium Pontificum will be in session later this month,
as the presiding pontifex for that upcoming session, I will not add
the issue to the current session. Much as I want to see the Censor's
questions answered, I do believe that they should be answered in the
fullest reasonable extent, and that this answer be correct in as much
as may be achieved.

I do not believe that Censor Albucius wishes to rush the item through
the Collegium, nor am I entirely convinced that pontifex Sabinus
wishes to rush the item as well. Instead, I suspect that the
honourable censor wishes to have answers to questions which impact the
continued functioning of our Republic, thus the urgency indicated
therein. Nevertheless, as I reminded my colleagues many times when
they sought to quickly decide certain issues without discussion during
this past November through January, "haste makes waste". I do not
believe it is appropriate that we answer these questions with
incomplete information, or with such haste as to require that we
unnecessarily soon need to revisit the issue and revise our answer
accordingly. Therefore, I can state here and now that I will convene
the Collegium Pontificum to consider the issue, beginning a.d. XVI
Kal. Qui., through to a.d. V Kal. Qui.

It is also worth noting here that all pontifices are equals within the
Collegium, and although it has become nearly expected and very
commonly yet inappropriately believed, the pontifex maximus is not the
chair nor leader of the Collegium: *any* item may be submitted to
*any* pontifex at *any* time to be reviewed by the Collegium, or by
that pontifex individually, as so desired.

Di Romanis faueant.

C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,

> Hodiernus dies est Idae Maiae; hic dies nefastus publicus est.

Dies est "Idus" Maiae.

Idus est on the same declension than manus. And this word Idus is always at plurial.

Declension.
Nom: Idus
Voc: Idus
Acc: Idus
Gen: Iduum
Dat: Idibus
Abl: Idibus

If you like early Latin you can write Eidus.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Idibus Maiis P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est Idus Maiae; hic dies nefastus publicus est.

"Come, Mercury, Atlas' famous grandson, you whom
A Pleiad once bore to Jove, among the Arcadian hills,
Arbiter of war and peace to gods on high, and those below:
You who make your way with winged feet: who delight
In the sounding lyre, and the gleaming wrestling:
You through whose teaching the tongue learnt eloquence:
On the Ides, the Senate founded for you, a temple facing
The Circus: since then today has been your festival.
All those who make a living trading their wares,
Offer you incense, and beg you to swell their profits.
There's Mercury's fountain close to the Capene Gate:
It's potent, if you believe those who've tried it.
Here the merchant, cleansed, with his tunic girt,
Draws water and carries it off, in a purified jar.
With it he wets some laurel, sprinkles his goods
With damp laurel: those soon to have new owners.
And he sprinkles his hair with dripping laurel too,
And with that voice, that often deceives, utters prayers:
`Wash away all the lies of the past,' he says,
`Wash away all the perjured words of a day that's gone.
If I've called on you as witness, and falsely invoked
Jove's great power, hoping he wouldn't hear:
If I've knowingly taken the names of gods and goddesses,
In vain: let the swift southerlies steal my sinful words,
And leave the day clear for me, for further perjuries,
And let the gods above fail to notice I've uttered any.
Just grant me my profit, give me joy of the profit I've made:
And make sure I'll have the pleasure of cheating a buyer.'
Mercury, on high, laughs aloud at such prayers,
Remembering how he himself stole Apollo's cattle." - Ovid, Fasti V

"Though he was laid out in swaddling-clothes with her winnowing-basket
for a cradle, he escaped and made his way to Pieria, where he stole
some cattle that Apollon was tending. To keep from being discovered by
the tracks, he put boots on their feet and led them to Pylos. He hid
them in a grotto, except for two which he sacrificed, pinning up their
hides on rocks, boiling some o the meat for his meal and burning the
rest. Outside the cave he found a tortoise feeding. He cleaned it
out, and stretched across the shell strings made from the cattle he
had sacrificed, and when he had thus devised a lyre he also invented a
plectrum. Meanwhile Apollon reached Pylos in his search for the
cattle, and asked the locals about them. They told him that they had
indeed seen a boy driving some cattle, but they could not say where
they had been driven because there were no tracks to be found. So
Apollon learned who the thief was by divine science, and made his way
to Maia on Kyllene to charge Hermes. Maia, however, showed Apollon the
baby in his swaddling-clothes, whereupon Apollon took him to Zeus and
demanded his cattle. When Zeus told Hermes to return them, he denied
everything, but since his father would not believe him, he led Apollon
to Pylos and gave him back his cattle. Then, when Apollon heard the
lyre, he exchanged the cattle for that." - Apollodorus, the Library

"I am he who bears his father's mandates through the sky. My father's
Juppiter himself." - Ovid, Metamorphoses 2.708

"Hermes ... messenger of Zeus ... Celestial messenger of various
skill, whose powerful arts could watchful Argos kill. With winged feet
`tis thine through air to course." - Orphic Hymn 28 to Hermes

"Zeus who masses the clouds made answer ... turned to his dear son
Hermes: `Hermes, you are always our messenger." - Homer, Odyssey 5.4

"There was a craftsman who had a wooden statue of Hermes. Every day he
poured libations and made sacrifices to it, but he still wasn't able
to earn a living. The man got angry at the god so he grabbed the
statue by the leg and threw it down on the ground. The head of the
statue shattered and gold coins came pouring out from inside it. As he
gathered the gold, the man remarked, 'Hermes, you are an unlucky god,
since you take no thought for your friends. You didn't do me any good
when I was treating you with devotion, but now that I have wronged
you, you give me this immense reward. I do not understand this strange
kind of cult!" - Aesop, Fables 464

"A man fashioned a Hermes out of wood and carried it to the market to
put it up for sale but no customers approached him. In order to
attract some buyers the man began to shout that he was selling a
wish-fulfilling god who brought profit to its owner. 'Hey you,'
someone said, 'why are you putting such a thing up for sale, instead
of enjoying its benefits yourself?' The man answered, 'I am in need of
some immediate benefits, but this god happens to take his time when
distributing profits!" - Aesop, Fables 561

Today is the Mercuralia. Mercury, whose name is connected with
"merchandise" (merx), is the Roman divinity of commerce and gain,
later identified by the Romans with the Greek Hermes. His mother was
Maia, the eldest of the Pleiades, and the most beautiful of the seven
sisters. The Ides of May was recognized as his birthday. It became a
festival of traders and merchants; Ovid records the details of their
rites.

With laurel boughs, they sprinkled their goods for sale, along with
their hair, with water from a fountain near the Caperna Gate called
aqua Mercurii. They offered prayers to Mercury, who in legend had been
a thief, for forgiveness for past and future perjuries, for profit,
and for the continued ability to cheat customers! It is reasonable to
suppose that the guild of merchants spent the evening of the Ides of
May dining and feasting together.

Valete bene!

Cato

Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

Gratias tibi ago :)

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius C. Catoni s.p.d.,
>
> > Hodiernus dies est Idae Maiae; hic dies nefastus publicus est.
>
> Dies est "Idus" Maiae.
>
> Idus est on the same declension than manus. And this word Idus is always at plurial.
>
> Declension.
> Nom: Idus
> Voc: Idus
> Acc: Idus
> Gen: Iduum
> Dat: Idibus
> Abl: Idibus
>
> If you like early Latin you can write Eidus.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> Idibus Maiis P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>

Quirites,

As the CP matters have been, once again, put in our public forums, I feel necessary to bring our citizens a few additional objective informations.

I requested, as censor, the Collegium to give its opinion on a point arisen during the now ending Senate session and other close ones.
Not to enter the detail, the most "up-to-date" point is to know whether the senate should vote on defined days, specially on "dies nefasti".

Beyond a strict "boring" senatorial schedule question, the question is a major one for it asks the nature of the relation between the Gods of Rome and us. To say it short, some days were supposed to be "reserved" to the Gods, and other ones not. During the first ones, the public action or the personal ones, was limited or forbidden.

Well knowing these rules is thus important to well apply them. And the problem is that our only applicable text is not clear on these points.

In addition, the Senate seems (here is a point submitted to the CP for confirmation) being considered, by nature, as a religious place when in session, so, therefore, not a place where anything can be done.

Imo, this is an urgent point, just because our Senate will keep, from now on, this question over Its head, until the point be solved by an enlightened advice. Every senator and both consuls have the interest to get this point answered asap, so that the conditions of every coming session, vote, etc. be not contested afterwards.

For everyone's info, I have requested the Collegium to issue its advice if possible for next ides of June. Why ? Just for the above reasons, and so that a new senate session be not been convened and held under this interrogation. Thirty days seemed to me much reasonable to preserve everyone's respective schedule and avaibility.

If the Collegium Pontificum has no time to meet and answer my request with the coming 30 days, or does not consider the laid matter as urgent, I will probably withdraw my request, and take after mid-June my own responsibilities of censor in charge of the dignitas of the Senate and of the watch of the mos maiorum.

I sincerely do not wish to, for I think that this is a wonderful opportunity for the Collegium Pontificum to show that It may work efficiently on true questions and for us all to get gathered around a consensual reading of our institutions, whose the religious side cannot be distinguished.

Valete omnes,


P. Memmius Albucius
censor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Avete Omnes,
>
> I just read what Pontifex Maximus Sabinus wrote/forwarded on the CP and
> something struck out as I read the final paragraph (of the Censor's
> statement)...that just kinda struck me raw....the request of an answer
> before the next ides of June before action is taken? Which, I think the
> answer of possible actions would be none.
>
> My problem is why is this issue even remotely more important than
> say...developing job discriptions for all of the religio positions (which
> upon reading the item brought by Censor Albucius - I feel it is LESS
> important) than the development of clear measureable job descriptions so
> that when individuals who are both currently IN the positions or might be
> soon posted before said positions - would be able to function effectively.
>
> So, if we have waited YEARS (See Pontifex Maximus I am not blaming you
> personally) and are still waiting for job descriptions to be developed,
> implemented and assessed...the very idea that something else can be
> essentially ramrodded through sounds....well...not kosher.
>
> Nevermind the fact that dealing with issue that the Censor raised, which
> might or might not be valid ARE a distraction from the greater and MORE
> IMPORTANT concern of job descriptions is in itself a distraction.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

The information our censor has brought forward is, of course, not "objective", as he has very clear ideas of what the answer should be and has made those answers clear in his questions :)

Now, to bring to the attention of our citizens another point of view, based not in ancient practice but in our law: the only body authorized to decide the internal procedures of the Senate - including whether, when in session, it is to be considered a "holy" place, is the Senate itself.

While I agree that in the ancient mos the Senate was absolutely considered a ssacred place - and in fact could *only* meet in a place designated as a "templum", regardless of what that space was (a building, a field, a theater, etc.) - it is not the business of any other authority to decide for the Senate of Nova Roma anything that would impact its own internal rules.

The censor cannot, under our law, interpret or make statements of interpretation regarding the law; he does not have the potestas, auctoritas, or imperium to do so. That power is reserved for the consuls and the praetors, and - to a lesser degree - the tribunes. He may, of course, suggest ways in which he believes we can make our practices more closely conform to the anicient mos, but he cannot unilaterally enforce them by action or edict under our law.

I would caution - very strongly - the censor against abrogating the rights reserved for those magistrates with imperium, which his statements seem to imply he may be considering if the College of Pontiffs does not act within his time frame. If the censor wishes to make the Senate a templum, he is welcome to introduce into the Senate a proposal to do so, and upon which the Senate can vote.

I would also very gently caution the College of Pontiffs against abrogating for itself the rights reserved solely to the Senate of Nova Roma. While the Colleges do have authority over all aspects of the public cultus, they cannot make rules regarding the internal workings of the Senate.

Valete bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "publiusalbucius" <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
> Quirites,
>
> As the CP matters have been, once again, put in our public forums, I feel necessary to bring our citizens a few additional objective informations.
>
> I requested, as censor, the Collegium to give its opinion on a point arisen during the now ending Senate session and other close ones.
> Not to enter the detail, the most "up-to-date" point is to know whether the senate should vote on defined days, specially on "dies nefasti".
>
> Beyond a strict "boring" senatorial schedule question, the question is a major one for it asks the nature of the relation between the Gods of Rome and us. To say it short, some days were supposed to be "reserved" to the Gods, and other ones not. During the first ones, the public action or the personal ones, was limited or forbidden.
>
> Well knowing these rules is thus important to well apply them. And the problem is that our only applicable text is not clear on these points.
>
> In addition, the Senate seems (here is a point submitted to the CP for confirmation) being considered, by nature, as a religious place when in session, so, therefore, not a place where anything can be done.
>
> Imo, this is an urgent point, just because our Senate will keep, from now on, this question over Its head, until the point be solved by an enlightened advice. Every senator and both consuls have the interest to get this point answered asap, so that the conditions of every coming session, vote, etc. be not contested afterwards.
>
> For everyone's info, I have requested the Collegium to issue its advice if possible for next ides of June. Why ? Just for the above reasons, and so that a new senate session be not been convened and held under this interrogation. Thirty days seemed to me much reasonable to preserve everyone's respective schedule and avaibility.
>
> If the Collegium Pontificum has no time to meet and answer my request with the coming 30 days, or does not consider the laid matter as urgent, I will probably withdraw my request, and take after mid-June my own responsibilities of censor in charge of the dignitas of the Senate and of the watch of the mos maiorum.
>
> I sincerely do not wish to, for I think that this is a wonderful opportunity for the Collegium Pontificum to show that It may work efficiently on true questions and for us all to get gathered around a consensual reading of our institutions, whose the religious side cannot be distinguished.
>
> Valete omnes,
>
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> censor
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@> wrote:
> >
> > Avete Omnes,
> >
> > I just read what Pontifex Maximus Sabinus wrote/forwarded on the CP and
> > something struck out as I read the final paragraph (of the Censor's
> > statement)...that just kinda struck me raw....the request of an answer
> > before the next ides of June before action is taken? Which, I think the
> > answer of possible actions would be none.
> >
> > My problem is why is this issue even remotely more important than
> > say...developing job discriptions for all of the religio positions (which
> > upon reading the item brought by Censor Albucius - I feel it is LESS
> > important) than the development of clear measureable job descriptions so
> > that when individuals who are both currently IN the positions or might be
> > soon posted before said positions - would be able to function effectively.
> >
> > So, if we have waited YEARS (See Pontifex Maximus I am not blaming you
> > personally) and are still waiting for job descriptions to be developed,
> > implemented and assessed...the very idea that something else can be
> > essentially ramrodded through sounds....well...not kosher.
> >
> > Nevermind the fact that dealing with issue that the Censor raised, which
> > might or might not be valid ARE a distraction from the greater and MORE
> > IMPORTANT concern of job descriptions is in itself a distraction.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Ave!

ALL MATTERS BEFORE THE CP are able to be observed by all citizens. Thusly
if those citizens have questions or concerns - as I do. I have my right as
a Nova Roman to bring that to the Main List for airing.

Censor, you have done many of the things during your consulship that Cato
has done now during his. Why was it acceptable for you..and not for him?
Consistency and the lack of a double standard is all I am trying to keep
going. That...and eventually the job descriptions of the Religio offices.

Vale,

Sulla

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 6:22 AM, publiusalbucius
<albucius_aoe@...>wrote:

>
>
> Quirites,
>
> As the CP matters have been, once again, put in our public forums, I feel
> necessary to bring our citizens a few additional objective informations.
>
> I requested, as censor, the Collegium to give its opinion on a point arisen
> during the now ending Senate session and other close ones.
> Not to enter the detail, the most "up-to-date" point is to know whether the
> senate should vote on defined days, specially on "dies nefasti".
>
> Beyond a strict "boring" senatorial schedule question, the question is a
> major one for it asks the nature of the relation between the Gods of Rome
> and us. To say it short, some days were supposed to be "reserved" to the
> Gods, and other ones not. During the first ones, the public action or the
> personal ones, was limited or forbidden.
>
> Well knowing these rules is thus important to well apply them. And the
> problem is that our only applicable text is not clear on these points.
>
> In addition, the Senate seems (here is a point submitted to the CP for
> confirmation) being considered, by nature, as a religious place when in
> session, so, therefore, not a place where anything can be done.
>
> Imo, this is an urgent point, just because our Senate will keep, from now
> on, this question over Its head, until the point be solved by an enlightened
> advice. Every senator and both consuls have the interest to get this point
> answered asap, so that the conditions of every coming session, vote, etc. be
> not contested afterwards.
>
> For everyone's info, I have requested the Collegium to issue its advice if
> possible for next ides of June. Why ? Just for the above reasons, and so
> that a new senate session be not been convened and held under this
> interrogation. Thirty days seemed to me much reasonable to preserve
> everyone's respective schedule and avaibility.
>
> If the Collegium Pontificum has no time to meet and answer my request with
> the coming 30 days, or does not consider the laid matter as urgent, I will
> probably withdraw my request, and take after mid-June my own
> responsibilities of censor in charge of the dignitas of the Senate and of
> the watch of the mos maiorum.
>
> I sincerely do not wish to, for I think that this is a wonderful
> opportunity for the Collegium Pontificum to show that It may work
> efficiently on true questions and for us all to get gathered around a
> consensual reading of our institutions, whose the religious side cannot be
> distinguished.
>
> Valete omnes,
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> censor
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Avete Omnes,
> >
> > I just read what Pontifex Maximus Sabinus wrote/forwarded on the CP and
> > something struck out as I read the final paragraph (of the Censor's
> > statement)...that just kinda struck me raw....the request of an answer
> > before the next ides of June before action is taken? Which, I think the
> > answer of possible actions would be none.
> >
> > My problem is why is this issue even remotely more important than
> > say...developing job discriptions for all of the religio positions (which
> > upon reading the item brought by Censor Albucius - I feel it is LESS
> > important) than the development of clear measureable job descriptions so
> > that when individuals who are both currently IN the positions or might be
> > soon posted before said positions - would be able to function
> effectively.
> >
> > So, if we have waited YEARS (See Pontifex Maximus I am not blaming you
> > personally) and are still waiting for job descriptions to be developed,
> > implemented and assessed...the very idea that something else can be
> > essentially ramrodded through sounds....well...not kosher.
> >
> > Nevermind the fact that dealing with issue that the Censor raised, which
> > might or might not be valid ARE a distraction from the greater and MORE
> > IMPORTANT concern of job descriptions is in itself a distraction.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

I thought I should make a specific example of what I mean regarding the authority of the College of Pontiffs and the rights of the Senate.

The College has full authority to define *what* a templum is.

Only the Senate can decide if the Senate House *is* a templum.

Valete bene,

Cato

Ave,

True and nevermind the fact of a lack of a job description, there is no clear explanation of what can or what cannot be a templum is or can be!

Another example of putting the cart well in front of the horse.

Vale,

Sulla

Sent from my iPhone

On May 15, 2011, at 7:41 AM, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>
> I thought I should make a specific example of what I mean regarding the authority of the College of Pontiffs and the rights of the Senate.
>
> The College has full authority to define *what* a templum is.
>
> Only the Senate can decide if the Senate House *is* a templum.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE!

--- On Sun, 5/15/11, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:



>I thought I should make a specific example of what I mean regarding the authority of the College of Pontiffs and the rights of the Senate.



The College has full authority to define *what* a templum is.>>>Yes.  In my opinion the CA has a word to say here, too, but we will discuss that in the CP. I will add to your words the CP right to advice the Senate.>Only the Senate can decide if the Senate House *is* a templum.>>>Again yes. The Senate decide based of the CP advice. That is the first role of the CP, to advice the Senate.Note: there are many other details about the subject but are under the CP to discuss so I don't enter in details as time,  preserving the essence of your message, until now, in my opinion, is correct.VALE,Sabinus





























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE!
My colleague censor asked some questions. The CP will deal with them and is normally to do so. Pontifex Metellus proposed a CP session in July for that. It is ok.Until then there is not any horse, cart or whatever. We will see at that time which is the CP advice to the Senate.
VALE,Sabinus

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--- On Sun, 5/15/11, Robert <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:

From: Robert <robert.woolwine@...>
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Censor Request
To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, May 15, 2011, 6:06 PM
















 









Ave,



True and nevermind the fact of a lack of a job description, there is no clear explanation of what can or what cannot be a templum is or can be!



Another example of putting the cart well in front of the horse.



Vale,



Sulla



Sent from my iPhone



On May 15, 2011, at 7:41 AM, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:



> Cato omnibus in foro SPD

>

> I thought I should make a specific example of what I mean regarding the authority of the College of Pontiffs and the rights of the Senate.

>

> The College has full authority to define *what* a templum is.

>

> Only the Senate can decide if the Senate House *is* a templum.

>

> Valete bene,

>

> Cato

>

>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Q Caecilius Metellus pontifex Quiritibus s.d.

Saluete, Quirites.

Let me take a moment now to address some of what I am given to believe
are the concerns of the present issue.

First, to the Consul C Equitius Cato, whom I believe is concerned
about the manner in which the response to the questions posed by
Censor Albucius will be given. It is outside, as is known, the
competency of the Collegium Pontificum to direct the Senate on how to
handle itself. The response will be something similar to: "Sacred law
states that x must be done for y to be valid. If x is not done, steps
a, r, q, and z must be taken to correct it." As was the case in
Antiquity, the Collegium Pontificum will not (or, rather, I will not
convene it to) give a direct response to a specific situation, but
will instead state and elucidate what the iura sacra are on the
overall question at issue. Therefore, what the Senate and the People
do with the information rests outside the competency of the Collegium
Pontificum.

Next, to the Censor P Memmius Albucius, neither do I posit, nor do I
hold, the belief that the questions, which have been presented to the
Collegium from you, are not urgent or unworthy of swift response.
However, I am firmly of the opinion that anything worth doing is worth
the time it takes to do it properly. Similarly, as someone who knows
intimately the problems of mental focus, I wish to ensure that due
focus is given the the questions that have been raised. In summary, I
want to ensure that your questions are given due, full, and proper
consideration, and that the answer given is as complete and proper as
may be given within the confines of our available knowledge. It is
for these reasons that I have stated my intention to hold the question
for the time I have noted previously. To restate my earlier noted
opinion, there is the idiom: haste makes waste. I do not intend to
see the answers to your questions be waste.

Last, to my friend, the senator censorius L Cornelius Sulla Felix,
what else can I say but what I have told you personally? There is a
certain point at which the cart is so far ahead of the horse, that one
must question whether the cart is indeed in front of it, or behind it,
or even if the cart and the horse go together! Surely it seems that
my colleagues would rather we not have the cart at all, and would
instead opt for the use of the electric car, but I suspect that
someone might need to discover electricity, torque, the differences
between alternating and direct currents, voltage, amperes, Ohms, and a
host of other marvels of technological advancements before that could
even happen. Never mind all that, though! There are questions, which
must be answered, and those answers must come at a time when yet are
undefined their roles and duties.

Di Romanis faueant.

Ave!

What do you mean, "There are questions, which must be answered, and those
answers must come at a time when yet are undefined their roles and
duties.?" Are you stating something akin that due to the absence of clear
delineated job descriptions that one could argue that the members of the CP
do not have competency to give this type of advice - without input from
other bodies?

GIven this clear focus of the Constitution:

*1*. <SNIP> The *collegium pontificum* shall have the following honors,
powers, and responsibilities: *a*. To control the calendar, and determine
when the festivals and *dies fasti* and *dies nefasti* shall occur, and what
their effects shall be, within the boundaries of the example of ancient
Rome; Respectfully,

Sulla


On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 10:40 AM, Quintus Caecilius Metellus <
q.caecilius.metellus@...> wrote:

>
>
> Q Caecilius Metellus pontifex Quiritibus s.d.
>
> Saluete, Quirites.
>
> Let me take a moment now to address some of what I am given to believe
> are the concerns of the present issue.
>
> First, to the Consul C Equitius Cato, whom I believe is concerned
> about the manner in which the response to the questions posed by
> Censor Albucius will be given. It is outside, as is known, the
> competency of the Collegium Pontificum to direct the Senate on how to
> handle itself. The response will be something similar to: "Sacred law
> states that x must be done for y to be valid. If x is not done, steps
> a, r, q, and z must be taken to correct it." As was the case in
> Antiquity, the Collegium Pontificum will not (or, rather, I will not
> convene it to) give a direct response to a specific situation, but
> will instead state and elucidate what the iura sacra are on the
> overall question at issue. Therefore, what the Senate and the People
> do with the information rests outside the competency of the Collegium
> Pontificum.
>
> Next, to the Censor P Memmius Albucius, neither do I posit, nor do I
> hold, the belief that the questions, which have been presented to the
> Collegium from you, are not urgent or unworthy of swift response.
> However, I am firmly of the opinion that anything worth doing is worth
> the time it takes to do it properly. Similarly, as someone who knows
> intimately the problems of mental focus, I wish to ensure that due
> focus is given the the questions that have been raised. In summary, I
> want to ensure that your questions are given due, full, and proper
> consideration, and that the answer given is as complete and proper as
> may be given within the confines of our available knowledge. It is
> for these reasons that I have stated my intention to hold the question
> for the time I have noted previously. To restate my earlier noted
> opinion, there is the idiom: haste makes waste. I do not intend to
> see the answers to your questions be waste.
>
> Last, to my friend, the senator censorius L Cornelius Sulla Felix,
> what else can I say but what I have told you personally? There is a
> certain point at which the cart is so far ahead of the horse, that one
> must question whether the cart is indeed in front of it, or behind it,
> or even if the cart and the horse go together! Surely it seems that
> my colleagues would rather we not have the cart at all, and would
> instead opt for the use of the electric car, but I suspect that
> someone might need to discover electricity, torque, the differences
> between alternating and direct currents, voltage, amperes, Ohms, and a
> host of other marvels of technological advancements before that could
> even happen. Never mind all that, though! There are questions, which
> must be answered, and those answers must come at a time when yet are
> undefined their roles and duties.
>
> Di Romanis faueant.
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Iulio Sabino Caecilo Metello omnibusque in foro SPD

Thank you pontifices, for both your responses.

My deepest concern is, of course, that any responsum given by the College of Pontiffs - or College of Augurs - might be used as the basis for some sort of "action" - read "punishment" - of a citizen or citizens in the future.

Given the censors' actions against myself and senator Marcus Audens earlier this year - notae based on authority which the censors do not possess - you understand my misgivings when Memmius Albucius states that unless things happen within a certain amount of time - his time frame - then he will begin acting on his own.

Valete bene,

Cato

C. Petronius L. Sullae salutem,

>>> Are you stating something akin that due to the absence of clear

delineated job descriptions that one could argue that the members of the CP do not have competency to give this type of advice - without input from other bodies?<<<

Members of the CP have various jobs and a pontiff did not have the same duties and tasks than a Vestal nor a flamine. There is no problem of competency.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Idibus Maiis P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

SALVE!

--- On Sun, 5/15/11, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:


>My deepest concern is, of course, that any responsum given by the College of Pontiffs - or College of Augurs - might be used as the basis for some sort of "action" - read "punishment" - of a citizen or citizens in the future.>>>
 

Please allow me to not believe you. This part of your message is only populist. We know very well that the CP and CA don't enter in the citizens’ religious life. By the other hand we have citizens who also are magistrates. That is another story because they have more responsibilities.

>Given the censors' actions against myself and senator Marcus Audens earlier this year - notae based on authority which the censors do not possess - you understand my misgivings when Memmius Albucius states that unless things happen within a certain amount of time - his time frame - then he will begin acting on his own.>>>
 

That is subjective and reflects a vision limited in time. NR history proved that for many times. Frankly, I am not impressed.
My colleague censor will understand that the CP works based of the same rules as any other NR institution, paying attention to the session’s dates. However his questions deserve an answer asap as time your performance as consul arise them.
The things are simple and a risk always exists. We learned that one in order to be a man in his life shall assume risks. Therefore courage, mi amice!
 
VALE,
Sabinus

Valete bene,

Cato










[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Iulio Sabino sal.

I agree with both of your points, pontifex; my argument is not the intentions of the Colleges but rather what might be used as a...lever...based on what the Colleges decide on the questions.

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:
>
> SALVE!
>
>
> --- On Sun, 5/15/11, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
>
> >My deepest concern is, of course, that any responsum given by the College of Pontiffs - or College of Augurs - might be used as the basis for some sort of "action" - read "punishment" - of a citizen or citizens in the future.>>>
>  
>
> Please allow me to not believe you. This part of your message is only populist. We know very well that the CP and CA don't enter in the citizens’ religious life. By the other hand we have citizens who also are magistrates. That is another story because they have more responsibilities.
>
> >Given the censors' actions against myself and senator Marcus Audens earlier this year - notae based on authority which the censors do not possess - you understand my misgivings when Memmius Albucius states that unless things happen within a certain amount of time - his time frame - then he will begin acting on his own.>>>
>  
>
> That is subjective and reflects a vision limited in time. NR history proved that for many times. Frankly, I am not impressed.
> My colleague censor will understand that the CP works based of the same rules as any other NR institution, paying attention to the session’s dates. However his questions deserve an answer asap as time your performance as consul arise them.
> The things are simple and a risk always exists. We learned that one in order to be a man in his life shall assume risks. Therefore courage, mi amice!
>  
> VALE,
> Sabinus
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Consul,

My request to the CP aims to solve asap what I see as a delicate situation for the Senate, for yourself as consul and brought to preside It, and for every concerned public institution.

If ever the Collegium confirms before next Ides of June, specially on the matter of the vote on nefasti dies, my point of view, which is the same that our consuls of the last three years, I take here the clear commitment not taking or asking for some "punishment" or supporting any.
I will just recommend that you do another piaculum, to close the misunderstanding that you would have had with our Gods. And that's all, for the major experience of this episod would have been the positive step forward done by our institutions on this matter.

Vale sincerely,


Albucius csr

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Iulio Sabino sal.
>
> I agree with both of your points, pontifex; my argument is not the intentions of the Colleges but rather what might be used as a...lever...based on what the Colleges decide on the questions.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@> wrote:
> >
> > SALVE!
> >
> >
> > --- On Sun, 5/15/11, Cato <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> >
> > >My deepest concern is, of course, that any responsum given by the College of Pontiffs - or College of Augurs - might be used as the basis for some sort of "action" - read "punishment" - of a citizen or citizens in the future.>>>
> >  
> >
> > Please allow me to not believe you. This part of your message is only populist. We know very well that the CP and CA don't enter in the citizens’ religious life. By the other hand we have citizens who also are magistrates. That is another story because they have more responsibilities.
> >
> > >Given the censors' actions against myself and senator Marcus Audens earlier this year - notae based on authority which the censors do not possess - you understand my misgivings when Memmius Albucius states that unless things happen within a certain amount of time - his time frame - then he will begin acting on his own.>>>
> >  
> >
> > That is subjective and reflects a vision limited in time. NR history proved that for many times. Frankly, I am not impressed.
> > My colleague censor will understand that the CP works based of the same rules as any other NR institution, paying attention to the session’s dates. However his questions deserve an answer asap as time your performance as consul arise them.
> > The things are simple and a risk always exists. We learned that one in order to be a man in his life shall assume risks. Therefore courage, mi amice!
> >  
> > VALE,
> > Sabinus
> >
> > Valete bene,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Ave,

You do not have the authority to compel a piaculum, no more or no less than
any citizen. I would like to request that you let this matter drop
regarding the Piaculum. There is no reason to hold Cato to a different
standard than you held.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:20 PM, publiusalbucius
<albucius_aoe@...>wrote:

>
>
> Consul,
>
> My request to the CP aims to solve asap what I see as a delicate situation
> for the Senate, for yourself as consul and brought to preside It, and for
> every concerned public institution.
>
> If ever the Collegium confirms before next Ides of June, specially on the
> matter of the vote on nefasti dies, my point of view, which is the same that
> our consuls of the last three years, I take here the clear commitment not
> taking or asking for some "punishment" or supporting any.
> I will just recommend that you do another piaculum, to close the
> misunderstanding that you would have had with our Gods. And that's all, for
> the major experience of this episod would have been the positive step
> forward done by our institutions on this matter.
>
> Vale sincerely,
>
> Albucius csr
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
> >
> > Cato Iulio Sabino sal.
> >
> > I agree with both of your points, pontifex; my argument is not the
> intentions of the Colleges but rather what might be used as
> a...lever...based on what the Colleges decide on the questions.
> >
> > Vale bene,
> >
> > Cato
>
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > SALVE!
> > >
> > >
> > > --- On Sun, 5/15/11, Cato <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >My deepest concern is, of course, that any responsum given by the
> College of Pontiffs - or College of Augurs - might be used as the basis for
> some sort of "action" - read "punishment" - of a citizen or citizens in the
> future.>>>
> > > �
> > >
> > > Please allow me to not believe you. This part of your message is only
> populist. We know very well that the CP and CA don't enter in the
> citizens��� religious life. By the other hand we have citizens who also are
> magistrates. That is another story because they have more responsibilities.
>
> > >
> > > >Given the censors' actions against myself and senator Marcus Audens
> earlier this year - notae based on authority which the censors do not
> possess - you understand my misgivings when Memmius Albucius states that
> unless things happen within a certain amount of time - his time frame - then
> he will begin acting on his own.>>>
> > > �
> > >
> > > That is subjective and reflects� a vision limited in time. NR history
> proved that for many times. Frankly, I am not impressed.
> > > My colleague censor will understand that the CP works based of the same
> rules as any other NR institution, paying attention to the session���s
> dates. However his questions deserve an answer asap as time your performance
> as consul arise them.
>
> > > The things are simple and a risk always exists. We learned that one in
> order to be a man in his life shall assume risks. Therefore courage, mi
> amice!
> > > �
>
> > > VALE,
> > > Sabinus
> > >
> > > Valete bene,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://naranjatoscano.net/Iindex.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Sulla,

I used the word *recommend*, did not I ?

I am conscious that the way a few of our senators and magistrates happen to live their duties and our laws seems to be... elastic - not to say worse - but I did not imagine that the meaning of the verb "to recommend" had also suffered such modification.

On the matter, I cannot understand your reluctance on the fact that the consul - if ever he was wrong - may perform a piaculum. Again, and as I told it last March, a piaculum is a mark of respect towards our Gods. Its essence is to restore the peace between the Gods and the Republic and specially Its concerned magistrates or institutions.

I had, thus, and to answer one of your interrogations, proposed in June last year when I was consul - towards witnesses - and though my responsibility was not at stake, to be a part of a joint piaculum whose aim would have then been to restore the pax deorum. I considered that the aimed result was worthy a small effort and such basic mark of respect towards our Gods.

To show you that I remain open-minded on this point, I propose that the possible piaculum - if ever - be performed at the same time in the consul's name and in our institutions' one : for, somehow, and because we did not fix the question sooner in our texts (probably believing that our mos maiorum was enough), we probably all share a part of responsibility here. :-)

Now, if you agree, let us wait that the Collegium sets its agenda. I am available, as usual, privately, for any idea or proposal, for example which would aim to build up a more secured future for our community.

Vale sincerely Corneli,


Albucius csr.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave,
>
> You do not have the authority to compel a piaculum, no more or no less than
> any citizen. I would like to request that you let this matter drop
> regarding the Piaculum. There is no reason to hold Cato to a different
> standard than you held.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:20 PM, publiusalbucius
> <albucius_aoe@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Consul,
> >
> > My request to the CP aims to solve asap what I see as a delicate situation
> > for the Senate, for yourself as consul and brought to preside It, and for
> > every concerned public institution.
> >
> > If ever the Collegium confirms before next Ides of June, specially on the
> > matter of the vote on nefasti dies, my point of view, which is the same that
> > our consuls of the last three years, I take here the clear commitment not
> > taking or asking for some "punishment" or supporting any.
> > I will just recommend that you do another piaculum, to close the
> > misunderstanding that you would have had with our Gods. And that's all, for
> > the major experience of this episod would have been the positive step
> > forward done by our institutions on this matter.
> >
> > Vale sincerely,
> >
> > Albucius csr
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cato Iulio Sabino sal.
> > >
> > > I agree with both of your points, pontifex; my argument is not the
> > intentions of the Colleges but rather what might be used as
> > a...lever...based on what the Colleges decide on the questions.
> > >
> > > Vale bene,
> > >
> > > Cato
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > SALVE!
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- On Sun, 5/15/11, Cato <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >My deepest concern is, of course, that any responsum given by the
> > College of Pontiffs - or College of Augurs - might be used as the basis for
> > some sort of "action" - read "punishment" - of a citizen or citizens in the
> > future.>>>
> > > > Â
> > > >
> > > > Please allow me to not believe you. This part of your message is only
> > populist. We know very well that the CP and CA don't enter in the
> > citizens’ religious life. By the other hand we have citizens who also are
> > magistrates. That is another story because they have more responsibilities.
> >
> > > >
> > > > >Given the censors' actions against myself and senator Marcus Audens
> > earlier this year - notae based on authority which the censors do not
> > possess - you understand my misgivings when Memmius Albucius states that
> > unless things happen within a certain amount of time - his time frame - then
> > he will begin acting on his own.>>>
> > > > Â
> > > >
> > > > That is subjective and reflects a vision limited in time. NR history
> > proved that for many times. Frankly, I am not impressed.
> > > > My colleague censor will understand that the CP works based of the same
> > rules as any other NR institution, paying attention to the session’s
> > dates. However his questions deserve an answer asap as time your performance
> > as consul arise them.
> >
> > > > The things are simple and a risk always exists. We learned that one in
> > order to be a man in his life shall assume risks. Therefore courage, mi
> > amice!
> > > > Â
> >
> > > > VALE,
> > > > Sabinus
> > > >
> > > > Valete bene,
> > > >
> > > > Cato
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

However, a crucial point - again, under our law. If the College of Pontiffs decides that certain actions are incorrect and that if they are performed a piaculum should be made, that would have *no bearing* on anything that has already taken place, and a citizen or magistrate who did *not* perform a piaculum as ... "recommended" ... by the censor would not and could not be held accountable for it.

We have an ex post facto clause in our Constitution, which makes it illegal for someone to be punished for something that was not a "crime" at the time it was committed. No matter how heinous the censor might think something is, if it did not violate our law *at the time it happened*, it is not a crime and cannot be viewed as one. So *nothing* that has occurred - or will occur - until the College has met and issued their responsum can be considered subject to whatever they decide.

The College of Pontiffs could declare that not offering a piaculum under certain circumstances would constitute an affront to "public morality" - the *only* tool that a censor can use under the Constitution to do, well, anything, really, since the only power of compulsion they have is to issue notae.

The arguments I am hearing the censor make are frighteningly similar to those made by apologists for the Holy Office of the Inquisition - or, for that matter, almost any fundamentalist religious mindset: "it can't hurt, so why not just to be sure?" The unspoken part of the equation is what happens if a piaculum *isn't* performed, although the censor's language is setting off loud alarums.

We'll see where this all goes, in time.

Valete bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "publiusalbucius" <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:
>
> Ave Sulla,
>
> I used the word *recommend*, did not I ?
>
> I am conscious that the way a few of our senators and magistrates happen to live their duties and our laws seems to be... elastic - not to say worse - but I did not imagine that the meaning of the verb "to recommend" had also suffered such modification.
>
> On the matter, I cannot understand your reluctance on the fact that the consul - if ever he was wrong - may perform a piaculum. Again, and as I told it last March, a piaculum is a mark of respect towards our Gods. Its essence is to restore the peace between the Gods and the Republic and specially Its concerned magistrates or institutions.
>
> I had, thus, and to answer one of your interrogations, proposed in June last year when I was consul - towards witnesses - and though my responsibility was not at stake, to be a part of a joint piaculum whose aim would have then been to restore the pax deorum. I considered that the aimed result was worthy a small effort and such basic mark of respect towards our Gods.
>
> To show you that I remain open-minded on this point, I propose that the possible piaculum - if ever - be performed at the same time in the consul's name and in our institutions' one : for, somehow, and because we did not fix the question sooner in our texts (probably believing that our mos maiorum was enough), we probably all share a part of responsibility here. :-)
>
> Now, if you agree, let us wait that the Collegium sets its agenda. I am available, as usual, privately, for any idea or proposal, for example which would aim to build up a more secured future for our community.
>
> Vale sincerely Corneli,
>
>
> Albucius csr.
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@> wrote:
> >
> > Ave,
> >
> > You do not have the authority to compel a piaculum, no more or no less than
> > any citizen. I would like to request that you let this matter drop
> > regarding the Piaculum. There is no reason to hold Cato to a different
> > standard than you held.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:20 PM, publiusalbucius
> > <albucius_aoe@>wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Consul,
> > >
> > > My request to the CP aims to solve asap what I see as a delicate situation
> > > for the Senate, for yourself as consul and brought to preside It, and for
> > > every concerned public institution.
> > >
> > > If ever the Collegium confirms before next Ides of June, specially on the
> > > matter of the vote on nefasti dies, my point of view, which is the same that
> > > our consuls of the last three years, I take here the clear commitment not
> > > taking or asking for some "punishment" or supporting any.
> > > I will just recommend that you do another piaculum, to close the
> > > misunderstanding that you would have had with our Gods. And that's all, for
> > > the major experience of this episod would have been the positive step
> > > forward done by our institutions on this matter.
> > >
> > > Vale sincerely,
> > >
> > > Albucius csr
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Cato Iulio Sabino sal.
> > > >
> > > > I agree with both of your points, pontifex; my argument is not the
> > > intentions of the Colleges but rather what might be used as
> > > a...lever...based on what the Colleges decide on the questions.
> > > >
> > > > Vale bene,
> > > >
> > > > Cato
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > SALVE!
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- On Sun, 5/15/11, Cato <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >My deepest concern is, of course, that any responsum given by the
> > > College of Pontiffs - or College of Augurs - might be used as the basis for
> > > some sort of "action" - read "punishment" - of a citizen or citizens in the
> > > future.>>>
> > > > > Â
> > > > >
> > > > > Please allow me to not believe you. This part of your message is only
> > > populist. We know very well that the CP and CA don't enter in the
> > > citizens’ religious life. By the other hand we have citizens who also are
> > > magistrates. That is another story because they have more responsibilities.
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >Given the censors' actions against myself and senator Marcus Audens
> > > earlier this year - notae based on authority which the censors do not
> > > possess - you understand my misgivings when Memmius Albucius states that
> > > unless things happen within a certain amount of time - his time frame - then
> > > he will begin acting on his own.>>>
> > > > > Â
> > > > >
> > > > > That is subjective and reflects a vision limited in time. NR history
> > > proved that for many times. Frankly, I am not impressed.
> > > > > My colleague censor will understand that the CP works based of the same
> > > rules as any other NR institution, paying attention to the session’s
> > > dates. However his questions deserve an answer asap as time your performance
> > > as consul arise them.
> > >
> > > > > The things are simple and a risk always exists. We learned that one in
> > > order to be a man in his life shall assume risks. Therefore courage, mi
> > > amice!
> > > > > Â
> > >
> > > > > VALE,
> > > > > Sabinus
> > > > >
> > > > > Valete bene,
> > > > >
> > > > > Cato
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XVII Kalendas Iunius; hic dies fastus aterque est.

"On 13th January, 27 BC, Octavian completed his first attempt to
find a constitutional basis for his extraordinary position, and on
16th January he received from the senate the cognomen Augustus, which
henceforward remained the personal appellation of the reigning Roman
emperors, and, substantially, of them alone. It has been generally
recognised that the name was well chosen, but no writer, so far as I
know, has offered any positive reason why it in particular should have
been chosen. Yet some reason is surely needed. Before 27 B.C. the
name, though not altogether unknown, does not seem to have served as a
Roman proper name. It had not been borne as a cognomen by any
republican statesman, or indeed by any historical character or
legendary hero. It was an adjective adapted by Octavian. We can,
indeed, see how much it had to recommend it to the genius in
adaptation. It possessed no political associations of any sort; it had
belonged to nobody before Octavian and recalled no one's peculiar
policy or aims. It had been merely an adjective used occasionally, yet
not very often, in earlier literature (since Ennius), and, so far as
it implied anything at all, implied simply a semi-religious sanctity —
'sancta vocant augusta patres,' as Ovid says (Fasti I.609). Thus it
fitted singularly well with the half-divinity of the divi filius. Just
as Augustus, early in his career (40 BC), had dropped the name
Julius and had adapted an appellation (Imp. Caesar, etc.) which marked
him off from the ordinary citizens, thereby indicating by the subtle
change his great aims and his ambitions, so by the name Augustus he
again set himself apart. Still, the name did not lie ready-made to his
hand; we need some reason, beyond its fitness, to explain why his
peculiar choice fell on it; such a reason can, I think, be learnt from
coins. The coins of Mark Antony, notably his legionary silver, which
must have been issued in great profusion not long before Actium, bear
regularly the legend " ANT- AVG - III - VIR R - P - C " Here avg. is,
of course, short for augur. But it is also an obvious abbreviation of
Augustus (as already in the Monumentum Ancyranum, that is, before AD
13), and, as this silver of Antony must have been circulating freely
in the Roman world about 28 B.C. it might well have suggested the name
Augustus. This would be the more likely since such faint associations
as the adjective had possessed in earlier literature were with augur;
compare Ennius Annals: 'augusto augurio postquam incluta condita
Romast,' and so Servius on Aen. VII.153: 'augusta ad moenia regis,'
paraphrases augusta by augurio consecrata. To take a title which would
(so to say) absorb automatically the familiar style of Antony, would
well accord with the methods of Octavian.

Once created, the name Augustus never spread. Apart from derivatives
('Augustinus,' 'Augustalis' and the like), it remained almost wholly
confined to the actual rulers of the empire. Occasionally, it occurs
as cognomen of some unimportant personage whose obscurity kept him
safe. The terrors of a prosecution for 'maiestas' no doubt stopped
most private persons from adopting it; indeed, it was not till the
Renaissance and the sixteenth century that it came to be used by
various princes in Germany in some abundance." - Prof. F. J.
Haverfield [ed.]

"My prayer to God is a very short one: 'O, Lord, make my enemies
ridiculous.' God has granted it." - Voltaire (1694 - 1778), letter to
M. Damilaville, 16 May AD 1767

Valete bene!

Cato

Ave!

My issue is even more simple than that...

It is if the Censor is requesting a piaculum from our current consul. I
think our previous consul (the current Censor) should lead the way by doing
one for the very same issues he is raising about this year - for the same
actions he did last year. It is a matter of consistency and it would show
his good faith on this matter. He should do a piaculum and post it so that
we all are aware that it was done and then and only then, a second one
performed for this year. Otherwise it is utterly inconsistent and a double
standard and it would not look like the use of religion as a tool to beat
down a fellow magistrate with - and instead the Gods would be duly respected
by being respected and duly honored by both magistrates - last year and this
year.

Because to do only one piaculum for this year only would ease the haze for
this year but the cloud of last year would still remain.

Vale,

Sulla

On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

>
>
> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>
> However, a crucial point - again, under our law. If the College of Pontiffs
> decides that certain actions are incorrect and that if they are performed a
> piaculum should be made, that would have *no bearing* on anything that has
> already taken place, and a citizen or magistrate who did *not* perform a
> piaculum as ... "recommended" ... by the censor would not and could not be
> held accountable for it.
>
> We have an ex post facto clause in our Constitution, which makes it illegal
> for someone to be punished for something that was not a "crime" at the time
> it was committed. No matter how heinous the censor might think something is,
> if it did not violate our law *at the time it happened*, it is not a crime
> and cannot be viewed as one. So *nothing* that has occurred - or will occur
> - until the College has met and issued their responsum can be considered
> subject to whatever they decide.
>
> The College of Pontiffs could declare that not offering a piaculum under
> certain circumstances would constitute an affront to "public morality" - the
> *only* tool that a censor can use under the Constitution to do, well,
> anything, really, since the only power of compulsion they have is to issue
> notae.
>
> The arguments I am hearing the censor make are frighteningly similar to
> those made by apologists for the Holy Office of the Inquisition - or, for
> that matter, almost any fundamentalist religious mindset: "it can't hurt, so
> why not just to be sure?" The unspoken part of the equation is what happens
> if a piaculum *isn't* performed, although the censor's language is setting
> off loud alarums.
>
> We'll see where this all goes, in time.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "publiusalbucius" <albucius_aoe@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Ave Sulla,
> >
> > I used the word *recommend*, did not I ?
> >
> > I am conscious that the way a few of our senators and magistrates happen
> to live their duties and our laws seems to be... elastic - not to say worse
> - but I did not imagine that the meaning of the verb "to recommend" had also
> suffered such modification.
> >
> > On the matter, I cannot understand your reluctance on the fact that the
> consul - if ever he was wrong - may perform a piaculum. Again, and as I told
> it last March, a piaculum is a mark of respect towards our Gods. Its essence
> is to restore the peace between the Gods and the Republic and specially Its
> concerned magistrates or institutions.
> >
> > I had, thus, and to answer one of your interrogations, proposed in June
> last year when I was consul - towards witnesses - and though my
> responsibility was not at stake, to be a part of a joint piaculum whose aim
> would have then been to restore the pax deorum. I considered that the aimed
> result was worthy a small effort and such basic mark of respect towards our
> Gods.
> >
> > To show you that I remain open-minded on this point, I propose that the
> possible piaculum - if ever - be performed at the same time in the consul's
> name and in our institutions' one : for, somehow, and because we did not fix
> the question sooner in our texts (probably believing that our mos maiorum
> was enough), we probably all share a part of responsibility here. :-)
> >
> > Now, if you agree, let us wait that the Collegium sets its agenda. I am
> available, as usual, privately, for any idea or proposal, for example which
> would aim to build up a more secured future for our community.
> >
> > Vale sincerely Corneli,
> >
> >
> > Albucius csr.
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > Ave,
> > >
> > > You do not have the authority to compel a piaculum, no more or no less
> than
> > > any citizen. I would like to request that you let this matter drop
> > > regarding the Piaculum. There is no reason to hold Cato to a different
> > > standard than you held.
> > >
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
> > > Sulla
> > >
> > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:20 PM, publiusalbucius
> > > <albucius_aoe@>wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Consul,
> > > >
> > > > My request to the CP aims to solve asap what I see as a delicate
> situation
> > > > for the Senate, for yourself as consul and brought to preside It, and
> for
> > > > every concerned public institution.
> > > >
> > > > If ever the Collegium confirms before next Ides of June, specially on
> the
> > > > matter of the vote on nefasti dies, my point of view, which is the
> same that
> > > > our consuls of the last three years, I take here the clear commitment
> not
> > > > taking or asking for some "punishment" or supporting any.
> > > > I will just recommend that you do another piaculum, to close the
> > > > misunderstanding that you would have had with our Gods. And that's
> all, for
> > > > the major experience of this episod would have been the positive step
> > > > forward done by our institutions on this matter.
> > > >
> > > > Vale sincerely,
> > > >
> > > > Albucius csr
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Cato Iulio Sabino sal.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with both of your points, pontifex; my argument is not the
> > > > intentions of the Colleges but rather what might be used as
> > > > a...lever...based on what the Colleges decide on the questions.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vale bene,
> > > > >
> > > > > Cato
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > SALVE!
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/15/11, Cato <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >My deepest concern is, of course, that any responsum given by
> the
> > > > College of Pontiffs - or College of Augurs - might be used as the
> basis for
> > > > some sort of "action" - read "punishment" - of a citizen or citizens
> in the
> > > > future.>>>
> > > > > > �
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Please allow me to not believe you. This part of your message is
> only
> > > > populist. We know very well that the CP and CA don't enter in the
> > > > citizens��� religious life. By the other hand we have citizens who
> also are
> > > > magistrates. That is another story because they have more
> responsibilities.
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >Given the censors' actions against myself and senator Marcus
> Audens
> > > > earlier this year - notae based on authority which the censors do not
> > > > possess - you understand my misgivings when Memmius Albucius states
> that
> > > > unless things happen within a certain amount of time - his time frame
> - then
> > > > he will begin acting on his own.>>>
> > > > > > �
> > > > > >
> > > > > > That is subjective and reflects� a vision limited in time. NR
> history
> > > > proved that for many times. Frankly, I am not impressed.
> > > > > > My colleague censor will understand that the CP works based of
> the same
> > > > rules as any other NR institution, paying attention to the
> session���s
> > > > dates. However his questions deserve an answer asap as time your
> performance
> > > > as consul arise them.
> > > >
> > > > > > The things are simple and a risk always exists. We learned that
> one in
> > > > order to be a man in his life shall assume risks. Therefore courage,
> mi
> > > > amice!
> > > > > > �
> > > >
> > > > > > VALE,
> > > > > > Sabinus
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Valete bene,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cato
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Censori Sullae s.d.,

Here is my last public answer on the matter (you well know my private address for you use it several times a week): I am ready to be an active part of any piaculum, as I have already told it.

Concerning the events of last year, I am also ready to take part of any public piaculum which would concern our institutions as a whole, if there is still some sense doing such ceremony 6 months after the end of the term (are our Gods so passive and indifferent, or stupid to accept such possible lack of respect ?! :-) )

Naturally, you will have to bring good reasons why you are, just now, re-excavating some irregularity committed towards our Gods last year.


Now, please allow me to suggest you to keep away from our Forum for a few days.

I do know that you feel obliged to enter it each time a matter concerns the Collegium Pontificum and specially each time Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius issues here an opinion, as if our Metellus could not express alone his opinions and as if he did not do it well and clearly. ;-)

Imho, you are more reacting, towards our Metellus or Consul, in your try to move the matter on a political or personal field, with the emotion of a Roman domineering mother rather than with the wiseness and dignity of a senior Senator.

How touching and noble be your reaction towards a friend or a political ally, it does not give your arguments more grounds or good sense :-).
No counterfire - and yours is a big one, here ;-) - can hides a long time the initially asked question.

So, with the most sincere friendship, take a breath now ;-), and care not going too far on this sliding slope, on which one clumsy word generally brings another clumsy and worse one.

Let us work our Roman institutions, quietly and with confidence. Let us be in a win-win bet.

This time, there will be no xth answer : i let you say the very last word, for I suppose that you will not be able to refrain pronouncing it (will you? just amaze me). ;-)


Vale respectfully Corneli,


P. Memmius Albucius
censor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave!
>
> My issue is even more simple than that...
>
> It is if the Censor is requesting a piaculum from our current consul. I
> think our previous consul (the current Censor) should lead the way by doing
> one for the very same issues he is raising about this year - for the same
> actions he did last year. It is a matter of consistency and it would show
> his good faith on this matter. He should do a piaculum and post it so that
> we all are aware that it was done and then and only then, a second one
> performed for this year. Otherwise it is utterly inconsistent and a double
> standard and it would not look like the use of religion as a tool to beat
> down a fellow magistrate with - and instead the Gods would be duly respected
> by being respected and duly honored by both magistrates - last year and this
> year.
>
> Because to do only one piaculum for this year only would ease the haze for
> this year but the cloud of last year would still remain.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
> >
> > However, a crucial point - again, under our law. If the College of Pontiffs
> > decides that certain actions are incorrect and that if they are performed a
> > piaculum should be made, that would have *no bearing* on anything that has
> > already taken place, and a citizen or magistrate who did *not* perform a
> > piaculum as ... "recommended" ... by the censor would not and could not be
> > held accountable for it.
> >
> > We have an ex post facto clause in our Constitution, which makes it illegal
> > for someone to be punished for something that was not a "crime" at the time
> > it was committed. No matter how heinous the censor might think something is,
> > if it did not violate our law *at the time it happened*, it is not a crime
> > and cannot be viewed as one. So *nothing* that has occurred - or will occur
> > - until the College has met and issued their responsum can be considered
> > subject to whatever they decide.
> >
> > The College of Pontiffs could declare that not offering a piaculum under
> > certain circumstances would constitute an affront to "public morality" - the
> > *only* tool that a censor can use under the Constitution to do, well,
> > anything, really, since the only power of compulsion they have is to issue
> > notae.
> >
> > The arguments I am hearing the censor make are frighteningly similar to
> > those made by apologists for the Holy Office of the Inquisition - or, for
> > that matter, almost any fundamentalist religious mindset: "it can't hurt, so
> > why not just to be sure?" The unspoken part of the equation is what happens
> > if a piaculum *isn't* performed, although the censor's language is setting
> > off loud alarums.
> >
> > We'll see where this all goes, in time.
> >
> > Valete bene,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "publiusalbucius" <albucius_aoe@>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Ave Sulla,
> > >
> > > I used the word *recommend*, did not I ?
> > >
> > > I am conscious that the way a few of our senators and magistrates happen
> > to live their duties and our laws seems to be... elastic - not to say worse
> > - but I did not imagine that the meaning of the verb "to recommend" had also
> > suffered such modification.
> > >
> > > On the matter, I cannot understand your reluctance on the fact that the
> > consul - if ever he was wrong - may perform a piaculum. Again, and as I told
> > it last March, a piaculum is a mark of respect towards our Gods. Its essence
> > is to restore the peace between the Gods and the Republic and specially Its
> > concerned magistrates or institutions.
> > >
> > > I had, thus, and to answer one of your interrogations, proposed in June
> > last year when I was consul - towards witnesses - and though my
> > responsibility was not at stake, to be a part of a joint piaculum whose aim
> > would have then been to restore the pax deorum. I considered that the aimed
> > result was worthy a small effort and such basic mark of respect towards our
> > Gods.
> > >
> > > To show you that I remain open-minded on this point, I propose that the
> > possible piaculum - if ever - be performed at the same time in the consul's
> > name and in our institutions' one : for, somehow, and because we did not fix
> > the question sooner in our texts (probably believing that our mos maiorum
> > was enough), we probably all share a part of responsibility here. :-)
> > >
> > > Now, if you agree, let us wait that the Collegium sets its agenda. I am
> > available, as usual, privately, for any idea or proposal, for example which
> > would aim to build up a more secured future for our community.
> > >
> > > Vale sincerely Corneli,
> > >
> > >
> > > Albucius csr.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ave,
> > > >
> > > > You do not have the authority to compel a piaculum, no more or no less
> > than
> > > > any citizen. I would like to request that you let this matter drop
> > > > regarding the Piaculum. There is no reason to hold Cato to a different
> > > > standard than you held.
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully,
> > > >
> > > > Sulla
> > > >
> > > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:20 PM, publiusalbucius
> > > > <albucius_aoe@>wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Consul,
> > > > >
> > > > > My request to the CP aims to solve asap what I see as a delicate
> > situation
> > > > > for the Senate, for yourself as consul and brought to preside It, and
> > for
> > > > > every concerned public institution.
> > > > >
> > > > > If ever the Collegium confirms before next Ides of June, specially on
> > the
> > > > > matter of the vote on nefasti dies, my point of view, which is the
> > same that
> > > > > our consuls of the last three years, I take here the clear commitment
> > not
> > > > > taking or asking for some "punishment" or supporting any.
> > > > > I will just recommend that you do another piaculum, to close the
> > > > > misunderstanding that you would have had with our Gods. And that's
> > all, for
> > > > > the major experience of this episod would have been the positive step
> > > > > forward done by our institutions on this matter.
> > > > >
> > > > > Vale sincerely,
> > > > >
> > > > > Albucius csr
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cato Iulio Sabino sal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I agree with both of your points, pontifex; my argument is not the
> > > > > intentions of the Colleges but rather what might be used as
> > > > > a...lever...based on what the Colleges decide on the questions.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vale bene,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cato
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > SALVE!
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/15/11, Cato <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >My deepest concern is, of course, that any responsum given by
> > the
> > > > > College of Pontiffs - or College of Augurs - might be used as the
> > basis for
> > > > > some sort of "action" - read "punishment" - of a citizen or citizens
> > in the
> > > > > future.>>>
> > > > > > > Â
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Please allow me to not believe you. This part of your message is
> > only
> > > > > populist. We know very well that the CP and CA don't enter in the
> > > > > citizens’ religious life. By the other hand we have citizens who
> > also are
> > > > > magistrates. That is another story because they have more
> > responsibilities.
> > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >Given the censors' actions against myself and senator Marcus
> > Audens
> > > > > earlier this year - notae based on authority which the censors do not
> > > > > possess - you understand my misgivings when Memmius Albucius states
> > that
> > > > > unless things happen within a certain amount of time - his time frame
> > - then
> > > > > he will begin acting on his own.>>>
> > > > > > > Â
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > That is subjective and reflects a vision limited in time. NR
> > history
> > > > > proved that for many times. Frankly, I am not impressed.
> > > > > > > My colleague censor will understand that the CP works based of
> > the same
> > > > > rules as any other NR institution, paying attention to the
> > session’s
> > > > > dates. However his questions deserve an answer asap as time your
> > performance
> > > > > as consul arise them.
> > > > >
> > > > > > > The things are simple and a risk always exists. We learned that
> > one in
> > > > > order to be a man in his life shall assume risks. Therefore courage,
> > mi
> > > > > amice!
> > > > > > > Â
> > > > >
> > > > > > > VALE,
> > > > > > > Sabinus
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Valete bene,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cato
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Ave Censor,

My response below


On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 9:33 AM, publiusalbucius
<albucius_aoe@...>wrote:

>
>
> Censori Sullae s.d.,
>
> Here is my last public answer on the matter (you well know my private
> address for you use it several times a week): I am ready to be an active
> part of any piaculum, as I have already told it.
>

Then why haven't you done it already? You should be leading by example,
given that you are a Consular. Without actually doing the piaculum but just
stating your willingness yet not doing it. In other words your grounds for
this effort would be much stronger if you had come before the People
stating..I am guilty of the same thing I am trying to hold Cato accountable
for and I have already done my piaculum. See here it is! Yet you have
not. Therefore until it is done, you, my friend are just not being
consistent. First we remove the beam from our own eye before we judge
others. That is my point.

>
> Concerning the events of last year, I am also ready to take part of any
> public piaculum which would concern our institutions as a whole, if there is
> still some sense doing such ceremony 6 months after the end of the term (are
> our Gods so passive and indifferent, or stupid to accept such possible lack
> of respect ?! :-) )
>

Let me repeat myself again:
Then why haven't you done it already? You should be leading by example,
given that you are a Consular. Without actually doing the piaculum but just
stating your willingness yet not doing it. In other words your grounds for
this effort would be much stronger if you had come before the People
stating..I am guilty of the same thing I am trying to hold Cato accountable
for and I have already done my piaculum. See here it is! Yet you have
not. Therefore until it is done, you, my friend are just not being
consistent. First we remove the beam from our own eye before we judge
others. That is my point.

>
> Naturally, you will have to bring good reasons why you are, just now,
> re-excavating some irregularity committed towards our Gods last year.
>

Actually, my reason is the same as I complained about since I returned to NR
after I died....Consistency and no double standards. In this I am being
consistent.

>
> Now, please allow me to suggest you to keep away from our Forum for a few
> days.
>

Thank you for your advice, but I must decline. Considering I am one of the
only Nova Roman Citizens who seem to be observing AND asking questions
regarding items being put up to the CP, I would not be doing my civic duty
to basically question everything.

>
> I do know that you feel obliged to enter it each time a matter concerns the
> Collegium Pontificum and specially each time Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius
> issues here an opinion, as if our Metellus could not express alone his
> opinions and as if he did not do it well and clearly. ;-)
>

If I felt Q. Caecilius was incorrect regarding his opinion - I would be the
first to tell him...both in person and via message. The problem is he is
not wrong. Therefore when someone responds to his valid and coherent points
by deflecting the issue- I will be the first to counter those
inconsistencies - since I am in a position to know first hand what he does.

>
> Imho, you are more reacting, towards our Metellus or Consul, in your try to
> move the matter on a political or personal field, with the emotion of a
> Roman domineering mother rather than with the wiseness and dignity of a
> senior Senator.
>

Wait, are you trying to say I am a tool of Metellus or the Consul? lol You
know better than that considering my previous disagreements with the
consul. I simply defend and reinforce those points of view I consider
correct and abhor the concepts of double standards, which unfortunately is
something that has affected this proposal you have sent to the CP.

>
> How touching and noble be your reaction towards a friend or a political
> ally, it does not give your arguments more grounds or good sense :-).
>

I respectfully disagree, amice.

> No counterfire - and yours is a big one, here ;-) - can hides a long time
> the initially asked question.
>

Who is hiding? ;) Certainly not myself, the Consul or the Pontiff.
Actually I have taken the effort to bring to the people my own concerns
regarding this proposal and the possible ramifications that it touches on in
areas I bet you have not forseen.

>
> So, with the most sincere friendship, take a breath now ;-), and care not
> going too far on this sliding slope, on which one clumsy word generally
> brings another clumsy and worse one.
>

Amice, the sliding slope is not what I am on...but what Nova Roma is on.
You do realize that what you have opened is worse than the Pandora's box
that Schoastica has opened because of her hesitancy regarding the listing of
her macronational name. I can see it clearly. Metellus and I have
discussed it. The ramfications far exceed the narrow scope you have focused
on, Amice. Hence my concern.

>
> Let us work our Roman institutions, quietly and with confidence. Let us be
> in a win-win bet.
>

Amice, I have. Remember my Ordo Equesto item - I sent it to you, the
consuls, praetors and others. I did not sneak around to the CP to try to
push something through. If we are going to work together - why did you not
send the request to the Consuls, Praetors, your colleague and myself? If we
are going to work together - it should be a two way street - NOT a one way
road. ;)

Respectfully,

Sulla

>
> This time, there will be no xth answer : i let you say the very last word,
> for I suppose that you will not be able to refrain pronouncing it (will you?
> just amaze me). ;-)
>
> Vale respectfully Corneli,
>
> P. Memmius Albucius
> censor
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Ave!
> >
> > My issue is even more simple than that...
> >
> > It is if the Censor is requesting a piaculum from our current consul. I
> > think our previous consul (the current Censor) should lead the way by
> doing
> > one for the very same issues he is raising about this year - for the same
> > actions he did last year. It is a matter of consistency and it would show
> > his good faith on this matter. He should do a piaculum and post it so
> that
> > we all are aware that it was done and then and only then, a second one
> > performed for this year. Otherwise it is utterly inconsistent and a
> double
> > standard and it would not look like the use of religion as a tool to beat
> > down a fellow magistrate with - and instead the Gods would be duly
> respected
> > by being respected and duly honored by both magistrates - last year and
> this
> > year.
> >
> > Because to do only one piaculum for this year only would ease the haze
> for
> > this year but the cloud of last year would still remain.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> > On Mon, May 16, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
> > >
> > > However, a crucial point - again, under our law. If the College of
> Pontiffs
> > > decides that certain actions are incorrect and that if they are
> performed a
> > > piaculum should be made, that would have *no bearing* on anything that
> has
> > > already taken place, and a citizen or magistrate who did *not* perform
> a
> > > piaculum as ... "recommended" ... by the censor would not and could not
> be
> > > held accountable for it.
> > >
> > > We have an ex post facto clause in our Constitution, which makes it
> illegal
> > > for someone to be punished for something that was not a "crime" at the
> time
> > > it was committed. No matter how heinous the censor might think
> something is,
> > > if it did not violate our law *at the time it happened*, it is not a
> crime
> > > and cannot be viewed as one. So *nothing* that has occurred - or will
> occur
> > > - until the College has met and issued their responsum can be
> considered
> > > subject to whatever they decide.
> > >
> > > The College of Pontiffs could declare that not offering a piaculum
> under
> > > certain circumstances would constitute an affront to "public morality"
> - the
> > > *only* tool that a censor can use under the Constitution to do, well,
> > > anything, really, since the only power of compulsion they have is to
> issue
> > > notae.
> > >
> > > The arguments I am hearing the censor make are frighteningly similar to
> > > those made by apologists for the Holy Office of the Inquisition - or,
> for
> > > that matter, almost any fundamentalist religious mindset: "it can't
> hurt, so
> > > why not just to be sure?" The unspoken part of the equation is what
> happens
> > > if a piaculum *isn't* performed, although the censor's language is
> setting
> > > off loud alarums.
> > >
> > > We'll see where this all goes, in time.
> > >
> > > Valete bene,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "publiusalbucius" <albucius_aoe@>
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Ave Sulla,
> > > >
> > > > I used the word *recommend*, did not I ?
> > > >
> > > > I am conscious that the way a few of our senators and magistrates
> happen
> > > to live their duties and our laws seems to be... elastic - not to say
> worse
> > > - but I did not imagine that the meaning of the verb "to recommend" had
> also
> > > suffered such modification.
> > > >
> > > > On the matter, I cannot understand your reluctance on the fact that
> the
> > > consul - if ever he was wrong - may perform a piaculum. Again, and as I
> told
> > > it last March, a piaculum is a mark of respect towards our Gods. Its
> essence
> > > is to restore the peace between the Gods and the Republic and specially
> Its
> > > concerned magistrates or institutions.
> > > >
> > > > I had, thus, and to answer one of your interrogations, proposed in
> June
> > > last year when I was consul - towards witnesses - and though my
> > > responsibility was not at stake, to be a part of a joint piaculum whose
> aim
> > > would have then been to restore the pax deorum. I considered that the
> aimed
> > > result was worthy a small effort and such basic mark of respect towards
> our
> > > Gods.
> > > >
> > > > To show you that I remain open-minded on this point, I propose that
> the
> > > possible piaculum - if ever - be performed at the same time in the
> consul's
> > > name and in our institutions' one : for, somehow, and because we did
> not fix
> > > the question sooner in our texts (probably believing that our mos
> maiorum
> > > was enough), we probably all share a part of responsibility here. :-)
> > > >
> > > > Now, if you agree, let us wait that the Collegium sets its agenda. I
> am
> > > available, as usual, privately, for any idea or proposal, for example
> which
> > > would aim to build up a more secured future for our community.
> > > >
> > > > Vale sincerely Corneli,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Albucius csr.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Ave,
> > > > >
> > > > > You do not have the authority to compel a piaculum, no more or no
> less
> > > than
> > > > > any citizen. I would like to request that you let this matter drop
> > > > > regarding the Piaculum. There is no reason to hold Cato to a
> different
> > > > > standard than you held.
> > > > >
> > > > > Respectfully,
> > > > >
> > > > > Sulla
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, May 15, 2011 at 3:20 PM, publiusalbucius
> > > > > <albucius_aoe@>wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Consul,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > My request to the CP aims to solve asap what I see as a delicate
> > > situation
> > > > > > for the Senate, for yourself as consul and brought to preside It,
> and
> > > for
> > > > > > every concerned public institution.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If ever the Collegium confirms before next Ides of June,
> specially on
> > > the
> > > > > > matter of the vote on nefasti dies, my point of view, which is
> the
> > > same that
> > > > > > our consuls of the last three years, I take here the clear
> commitment
> > > not
> > > > > > taking or asking for some "punishment" or supporting any.
> > > > > > I will just recommend that you do another piaculum, to close the
> > > > > > misunderstanding that you would have had with our Gods. And
> that's
> > > all, for
> > > > > > the major experience of this episod would have been the positive
> step
> > > > > > forward done by our institutions on this matter.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Vale sincerely,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Albucius csr
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cato Iulio Sabino sal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I agree with both of your points, pontifex; my argument is not
> the
> > > > > > intentions of the Colleges but rather what might be used as
> > > > > > a...lever...based on what the Colleges decide on the questions.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Vale bene,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Cato
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, iulius sabinus
> <iulius_sabinus@>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > SALVE!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --- On Sun, 5/15/11, Cato <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >My deepest concern is, of course, that any responsum given
> by
> > > the
> > > > > > College of Pontiffs - or College of Augurs - might be used as the
> > > basis for
> > > > > > some sort of "action" - read "punishment" - of a citizen or
> citizens
> > > in the
> > > > > > future.>>>
> > > > > > > > �
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Please allow me to not believe you. This part of your message
> is
> > > only
> > > > > > populist. We know very well that the CP and CA don't enter in the
> > > > > > citizens��� religious life. By the other hand we have citizens
> who
> > > also are
> > > > > > magistrates. That is another story because they have more
> > > responsibilities.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >Given the censors' actions against myself and senator Marcus
> > > Audens
> > > > > > earlier this year - notae based on authority which the censors do
> not
> > > > > > possess - you understand my misgivings when Memmius Albucius
> states
> > > that
> > > > > > unless things happen within a certain amount of time - his time
> frame
> > > - then
> > > > > > he will begin acting on his own.>>>
> > > > > > > > �
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > That is subjective and reflects� a vision limited in time. NR
> > > history
> > > > > > proved that for many times. Frankly, I am not impressed.
> > > > > > > > My colleague censor will understand that the CP works based
> of
> > > the same
> > > > > > rules as any other NR institution, paying attention to the
> > > session���s
> > > > > > dates. However his questions deserve an answer asap as time your
> > > performance
> > > > > > as consul arise them.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The things are simple and a risk always exists. We learned
> that
> > > one in
> > > > > > order to be a man in his life shall assume risks. Therefore
> courage,
> > > mi
> > > > > > amice!
> > > > > > > > �
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > > VALE,
> > > > > > > > Sabinus
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Valete bene,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Cato
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Consul,

Thank you. I must have misread the tax table. My apologies.

Vale,

laenas

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Popillio Laeno omnibusque in foro SPD
>
> I'm not sure what you mean, amice. The calculations are based on the International Monetary Fund's listing for 2010, found here:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita
>
> and, if you notice, the tiers 1-3 for the UK in our taxes are
>
> 1 - $12
> 2 - $14
> 3 - $17
>
> while the US is
>
> 1 - $16
> 2 - $19
> 3 - $24
>
> Vale et valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius" <gaiuspopillius@> wrote:
> >
> > Ave,
> >
> > Whatever was used the calculation does not appear to make sense.
> >
> > Laenas
>

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XVI Kalendas Iunius; haec dies comitialis est.

"Arvorum sacerdotes Romulus in primis instituit seque duodecimum
fratrem appellavit inter illos Acca Larentia nutrice sua genitos,
spicea corona, quae vitta alba colligaretur, sacerdotio ei pro
religiosissimo insigni data; quae prima apud Romanos fuit corona,
honosque is non nisi vita finitur et exules etiam captosque
comitatur." - Pliny, "Natural History" xviii.2

"ille mag. manibus lautis capite velato sub divo contra orientem
sacrificium indixit deae Diae sic Quod bonum faustum felix
fortunatumque sit populo Romano Quiritibus, fratribusque arvalibus,
Tiberio Caesar Augusto, Iuliae Augustae et liberis nepotibus totique
domui eorum, sacrificium deae Diae hoc anno erit a.d. XVI Kalendas Iunias"

("The magister [of the Fratres Arvales], with washed hands, head
covered, below the open sky and turned to East proclaimed the
sacrifice to Dea Dia in the following way: 'In order that it may be
auspicious, prosperous and happy to the Roman people of the Quirites,
to the Fratres Arvales, to Tiberius Caesar Augustus, to Iulia Augusta
and to all grandchildren of their household, the sacrifice to Dea Dia
this year will be on the 16th day before the Kalends of June.'") -
Comentarii Fratrum Arvalium, CIL VI, 32340.0-20

Today is held in honor of the Dea Dia. The worship of the Roman
goddess Dea Dia was in the hands of a priesthood of twelve, the
fratres arvales (Arval brethren), and she possessed a shrine in a
grove outside Rome at the fifth (or sixth, depending on the period)
milestone on the Via Campana, in the modern suburb of La Magliana. The
deity, her cult, and her priesthood supposedly date back to very early
in Roman history, but they underwent a major renovation by Augustus.
Roman legend held that the priestly college was originated by Romulus,
who took the place of a dead son of his nurse Acca Laurentia, and
formed the priesthood with the remaining eleven sons. They were also
connected originally with the Sabine priesthood of Sodales Titii and
were probably originally their counterpart among the Sabines. From
the previous period, we only know of the existence of the arvales and
of a public sacrifice, mentioned by Varro. The site itself bears
testimony of cultic occupation since at least the third century BC.
But it is impossible to be sure whether these items belonged to Dea
Dia or to Fors Fortuna, who possessed a temple on the same spot.

After Augustus's reform the priesthood consisted of twelve members
chosen by cooptation from the most distinguished families. The
reigning emperor was always a member. The reorganization was one
element in Augustus's policy of directing enthusiasm for his person
and policies into traditional religious channels. Under the empire the
Arval brethren offered sacrifices not only to Dea Dia but to a wide
variety of divinities to secure the health and prosperity of the
emperor and his family. Along with sometimes lengthy descriptions of
the rituals celebrated in the grove of Dea Dia, and of other
sacrifices of the brotherhood in Rome, the records of the Arval
brethren were inscribed on marble, and numerous fragments have been
preserved. These records, extending from 21 BC to AD 241, are a major
source for traditional Roman religion in the imperial age. The cult
and its priesthood are documented as late as AD 304.

Dea Dia, who was the owner of the lucus fratrum arvalium and the main
addressee of the cult celebrated by the Arval brethren, is only known
by the proceedings of this brotherhood. Thus, there has been much
speculation about her identity. During the nineteenth century, when
scholars tended to assimilate gods, some saw her as a goddess similar
to Ceres, if not Ceres herself. In the "Romische Mythologie" (1831) of
Ludwig Preller and Heinrich Jordan, Dea Dia was supposed to embody
certain aspects of the numen otherwise venerated under the names of
Ceres, Tellus, and perhaps Ops or Acca Larentia. One also finds
assimilations to Diana, Hebe, and the Mother of the Gods. In short,
Dea Dia was supposed to be an indigitation (the assimilation of minor
deities to one major god or goddess) of Ceres or another goddess
linked to agriculture.

The name Dea Dia is an emphatic doublet, meaning literally, "the
celestial goddess." According to the Arval proceedings, Dea Dia
performed her divine function between the periods of sowing and
harvesting and was thus the good light of heaven that brought the
crops from germination to maturation. The ritual at her festival
employed, among other offerings (a lamb, meatballs, sweet wine, and
pastries), green ears from the current crop, together with dried ears
of grain from the previous year's crop. The other gods and goddesses
mentioned in her lucus are to be considered her assistants or her guests.

Valete bene!

Cato

SALVETE!

Edictum censorium Iulium Memmium de censu.

I. Nova Roma will be conducting its census of citizens from May 17th to October 20th, 2764 a.U.c (2011) following the schedule:
- 17 May : starting of the Census 2764
- 19 July: suspension of the census (summer)
- 1 Sept. : the census is resumed.
- 13 Oct : all tables are closed - the census' operations are officially closed.
- 20 Oct : the censors publish the Census reports.

II. Censors will complete this edict during the census with any other necessary information.

III. This edict becomes effective immediately.

Given under our hands this the 17th day of May 2764 a.u.c, in the consulship of P. Ullerius and C. Equitius.
Datum sub manibus nostris a.d XVI Kal Iun. MMDCCLXIV a.u.c, P. Ullerio C. Equitio coss.

VALETE,
T. Iulius Sabinus
P. Memmius Albucius
censores

Q Caecilius Metellus pontifex Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit.

Saluete, Quirites.

What follows is the calendar for the tenth full nundinum of the
current sacral year, starting 17 May 2011 and continuing through 25
May 2011. As always, I shall be glad to answer whatever questions may
be had.

Our tenth nundinum of the year consists of the following nine days:

- 17 May 2011 (a.d. XVI Kal. Iun.): the day is comitialis
- 18 May 2011 (a.d. XV Kal. Iun.): the day is comitialis
- 19 May 2011 (a.d. XIV Kal. Iun.): the day is comitialis
- 20 May 2011 (a.d. XIII Kal. Iun.): the day is comitialis
- 21 May 2011 (a.d. XII Kal. Iun.): the day is nefastus publicus
- 22 May 2011 (a.d. XI Kal. Iun.): the day is nefastus
- 23 May 2011 (a.d. X Kal. Iun.): the day is nefastus publicus
- 24 May 2011 (a.d. IX Kal. Iun.): quando rex comitiauit, fas
- 25 May 2011 (a.d. VIII Kal. Iun.): the day is comitialis

Of note this nundinum are the Agonium (also, "Agonalia"), of 21 May.
Also, the Tubilustrium, of 23 May, and one of the more difficultly
observed days of the year: Q(uando) R(ex) C(omitiauit) F(as), on 24 May.

Romani pietatis exemplum sint.

a.d. XVI Kal Iun
Phoenice, Arizonae scr.
P Ullerio C Equitio coss.

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XV Kalendas Iunius; haec dies comitialis est.

"Why do men not marry during the month of May? Is it because this
month comes between April and June, of which they regard April as
sacred to Venus and June as sacred to Juno, both of them divinities of
marriage; and so they put the wedding a little earlier or wait until
later? Or is it because in this month they hold their most important
ceremony of purification, in which they now throw images from the
bridge into the river, but in days of old they used to throw human
beings? Wherefore it is the custom that the Flaminica, reputed to be
consecrate to Juno, shall wear a stern face, and refrain from bathing
and wearing ornaments at this time.

Or is it because many of the Latins make offerings to the departed in
this month? And it is for this reason, perhaps, that they worship
Mercury in this month and that the month derives its name from Maia.
Or is May, as some relate, named after the older (maior) and June
after the younger generation (iunior)? For youth is better fitted for
marriage, as Euripides also says:

Old age bids Love to take her leave for aye
And Aphrodite wearies of the old.

They do not, therefore, marry in May, but wait for June which comes
next after May." - Plutarch, "The Roman Questions" 86


"The people of Rome were regretting that they had not prevented
Hannibal from sailing home, and when they learned that he was
consolidating the opposition in Africa, they were again greatly
terrified. Accordingly, they sent Claudius Nero, one of the
p263consuls, against him, and allotted to Marcus Servilius the
protection of Italy. Nero, however, was unable to reach Africa, being
detained by stormy weather in Italy and again in Sardinia. After that
he progressed no farther than Sicily, for he learned that Scipio had
proved the victor. Scipio, in fact, had been afraid that Nero might be
so prompt as to appropriate the glory of his own toils, and so at the
first glimmer of spring, he had advanced against Hannibal, having
learned that the latter had conquered Masinissa. And Hannibal, when he
found out that Scipio was approaching, went to meet him. They encamped
opposite each other, though they did not at once come to blows, but
delayed several days; and each commander addressed his army, inciting
it to battle.

When it seemed best to Scipio not to delay any longer, but to draw
Hannibal into a struggle whether he wished it or not, he set out for
Utica, that by creating an impression of fear and flight he might gain
a favourable opportunity for attack; and thus it turned out. Hannibal,
thinking that he was in flight, and being correspondingly encouraged,
pursued him with his cavalry only. Contrary to his expectations Scipio
resisted, engaged in battle, and came out victorious. After routing
this body he then directed his attention not to pursuing them, but to
their equipment train, which was on the march, and he captured it
entire. This caused Hannibal alarm, and his alarm was increased by the
news that Scipio had done no injury to three Carthaginian spies whom
he had found in his camp. Hannibal had learned this fact from one of
them, after the other two had chosen to remain with the Romans.
Disheartened, therefore, he no longer felt the courage to carry on a
decisive engagement with the Romans, but determined to make efforts
for a truce as quickly as possible, in order that even if this attempt
should not be successful, it might at least cause a temporary delay
and cessation of hostilities. So he sent to Masinissa, and through
him, as a man of the same race, asked for a truce. And he secured a
conference with Scipio, but accomplished nothing. For Scipio avoided a
definite answer as well as a harsh one, but pursued a middle course
throughout, although adopting a particularly mild tone, in order to
lead Hannibal into careless behavior by pretending a willingness to
come to terms. And such was the result. For Hannibal now gave no
thought to battle, but was desirous of shifting his camp to a more
favorable place. Scipio, gaining this information from deserters,
broke camp by night and occupied the spot which was the goal of
Hannibal's efforts. And when the Carthaginians had reached a valley
unsuited for a camping place, he suddenly confronted them. Hannibal
refused to fight, but in his efforts to pitch camp there and to dig
wells he had a hard time of it all night long. Thus Scipio forced the
enemy, while at a disadvantage from weariness and thirst, to offer
battle in spite of themselves.

Accordingly, the Romans entered the conflict well marshalled and
eager, but Hannibal and the Carthaginians listless and dejected. This
was owing in part to a total eclipse of the sun; for in view of the
other circumstances, Hannibal suspected that this, too, augured
nothing auspicious for them. In this frame of mind they stationed the
elephants in front of them as a protection. Suddenly the Romans
uttered a great and terrible shout, and smiting their spears against
their shields, rushed furiously against the elephants. Thrown into a
panic by their charge, most of the beasts did not await their coming,
but turned to flight, and receiving frequent wounds caused still
greater confusion among those stationed beside them. But some of the
beasts charged the Romans, whereupon the latter would stand apart so
that they ran through the spaces between the ranks, getting struck
with missiles and wounded from close at hand as they passed along. For
a time the Carthaginians resisted, but at length, when Masinissa and
Laelius fell upon them from the rear with the horsemen, they all fled.
The majority of them were destroyed, and Hannibal came very near
losing his life. For as he fled, Masinissa pursued him at breakneck
speed, giving his horse a free rein. But Hannibal turned, and seeing
him thus pursuing, swerved aside slightly and checked his course; thus
Masinissa rushed by, and Hannibal got in his rear and wounded him.
Thus he made his escape with a few followers." - Cassius Dio, "Roman
History" XVII.xiv

"One of the symptoms of an approaching nervous breakdown is the belief
that one's work is terribly important." - Bertrand Russell, born 18
May AD 1872

Valete bene!

Cato

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XIV Kalendas Iunius; haec dies comitialis est.

"They say that Aeneas, the son of Anchises and Venus, when he had
landed in Italy, was intending to sacrifice to some one or other of
the gods, and after praying was about to begin the sacrifice of the
animal that had been prepared for the rite, when he caught sight of
one of the Achaeans approaching at a distance — either Ulysses, when
he was about to consult the oracle near Lake Avernus, or Diomed, when
he came as an ally to Daunus. And being vexed at the coincidence and
wishing to avert as an evil omen the sight of an enemy that had
appeared at the time of a sacrifice, he veiled himself and turned
back; then, after the departure of the enemy, he washed his hands
again and finished the sacrifice. When the sacrifices turned out
rather favorably, he was pleased at the coincidence and observed the
same practice on the occasion of every prayer; and his posterity keep
this also as one of the customary observances in connection with their
sacrifices. It was in accordance with the traditional usages, then,
that Camillus, after making his prayer and drawing his garment down
over his head, wished to turn his back; however, his foot slipped and
he was unable to recover himself, but fell flat on the ground. Though
this omen called for no divination or uncertainty but was easy for
even the most ordinary mind to interpret, signifying that it was
absolutely inevitable that he should come a disgraceful fall,
nevertheless, he did not consider it worth while either to guard
against it or to avert it by expiations, but altered it to the mention
gate that pleased him, assuming that the gods had given ear to his
prayers and had contrived that the mischief should be of the
slightest." - Dionysius of Halicarnassus, "Roman Antiquities" XII.16


"Why is it that when they worship the gods, they cover their heads,
but when they meet any of their fellow-men worthy of honour, if they
happen to have the toga over the head, they uncover?

This second fact seems to intensify the difficulty of the first. If,
then, the tale told of Aeneas is true, that, when Diomedes passed by,
he covered his head and completed the sacrifice, it is reasonable and
consistent with the covering of one's head in the presence of an enemy
that men who meet good men and their friends should uncover. In fact,
the behavior in regard to the gods is not properly related to this
custom, but accidentally resembles it; and its observance has
persisted since the days of Aeneas.

But if there is anything else to be said, consider whether it be not
true that there is only one matter that needs investigation: why men
cover their heads when they worship the gods; and the other follows
from this. For they uncover their heads in the presence of men more
influential than they: it is not to invest these men with additional
honor, but rather to avert from them the jealousy of the gods, that
these men may not seem to demand the same honors as the gods, nor to
tolerate an attention like that bestowed on the gods, nor to rejoice
therein. But they thus worshipped the gods, either humbling themselves
by concealing the head, or rather by pulling the toga over their ears
as a precaution lest any ill-omened and baleful sound from without
should reach them while they were praying. That they were mightily
vigilant in this matter is obvious from the fact that when they went
forth for purposes of divination, they surrounded themselves with the
clashing of bronze.

Or, as Castor states when he is trying to bring Roman customs into
relation with Pythagorean doctrines: the Spirit within us entreats and
supplicates the gods without, and thus he symbolizes by the covering
of the head the covering and concealment of the soul by the body." -
Plutarch, "The Roman Questions" 10

Valete bene!

Cato

Hi all

Just wanted to let you know I'm taking a break from Nova Roma for a while,
not that I'm particularly active at the best of times :-). I'm not
renouncing citizenship or anything but I just don't have the energy for it
right now.

The M.E. has been pretty bad lately and just to add the icing on the cake,
I've been diagnosed with cancer of the breast and lymph nodes. I've been up
and down to the hospital, which has caused a pretty major M.E. crash. I've
had biopsies, a CT scan, a bone scan and I've to go for my first MUGA scan
on Monday. Then I'll have neoadjuvant chemotherapy and surgery (a mastectomy
and level 3 axillary clearance).

So I'm sure you can understand I just don't have the energy for NR at the
moment. I'll shortly be going nomail on all the lists. If you want to
contact me for anything, it'll have to be off list. Oh and, of course, all
prayers etc more than welcome.

Take care
Merula


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Merula Amica,

Please know that my prayers and good wishes go with you, and always will.

Vale bene (and I will miss you)
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Merula,
As a cancer survivor myself I know where you are. I am sure the Gods and
Goddess will be with you in this as will be my prayers.
Vale,
Gaius Pompeius Marcellus


On Thu, 19 May 2011 15:08:13 +0100
Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:

> Hi all
>
> Just wanted to let you know I'm taking a break from Nova Roma for a while,
> not that I'm particularly active at the best of times :-). I'm not
> renouncing citizenship or anything but I just don't have the energy for it
> right now.
>
> The M.E. has been pretty bad lately and just to add the icing on the cake,
> I've been diagnosed with cancer of the breast and lymph nodes. I've been up
> and down to the hospital, which has caused a pretty major M.E. crash. I've
> had biopsies, a CT scan, a bone scan and I've to go for my first MUGA scan
> on Monday. Then I'll have neoadjuvant chemotherapy and surgery (a mastectomy
> and level 3 axillary clearance).
>
> So I'm sure you can understand I just don't have the energy for NR at the
> moment. I'll shortly be going nomail on all the lists. If you want to
> contact me for anything, it'll have to be off list. Oh and, of course, all
> prayers etc more than welcome.
>
> Take care
> Merula
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Merulae s.d.

Your NR friends keep you in their hearts and prayers. :-)


Vale sincerely,


P. Memmius Albucius
censor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> Just wanted to let you know I'm taking a break from Nova Roma for a while,
> not that I'm particularly active at the best of times :-). I'm not
> renouncing citizenship or anything but I just don't have the energy for it
> right now.
>
> The M.E. has been pretty bad lately and just to add the icing on the cake,
> I've been diagnosed with cancer of the breast and lymph nodes. I've been up
> and down to the hospital, which has caused a pretty major M.E. crash. I've
> had biopsies, a CT scan, a bone scan and I've to go for my first MUGA scan
> on Monday. Then I'll have neoadjuvant chemotherapy and surgery (a mastectomy
> and level 3 axillary clearance).
>
> So I'm sure you can understand I just don't have the energy for NR at the
> moment. I'll shortly be going nomail on all the lists. If you want to
> contact me for anything, it'll have to be off list. Oh and, of course, all
> prayers etc more than welcome.
>
> Take care
> Merula
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Aeternia Merulae sal:


As someone who lost a grandparent to lymphnoma, I remember the experience
acutely.

I will miss you terribly but we'll keep in touch offlist.

May the Mother and the gods and continue to watch over you.

Vale quam Optime,
Aeternia (Tinka)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus legatus pro praetore Pannoniae Quiritibus s. p. d.


I gladly and proudly announce you Consuls, Conscript Fathers and all Quirites, that I have organized the 5th Nova Roman Floralia Carnival in the Aquincum ruins area museum, Budapest, Hungary, which is our Pannonia Provincia under my authority.

The event will display the usual huge Nova Roman sacrifice at the original temple and altar, with hundreds of attendants. The Nova Roma related events are, as always in the last 4 years, in the center of the city-level programs of the Aquincum Museum, Nova Roma will open the whole Carnival and we will produce other events, too, like Roman military show, Roman fashion show, Roman trial show, presentation of Roman way of life etc.

A. Apollonius Cordus, C. Petronius Dexter, Sex. Lucilius Tutor and many other international Nova Roman guests who once visited this event can tell you how big and pompous it is!

Pray for our success, pray for Nova Roma in Pannonia, in Hungary.

AND OF COURSE: anyone who can manage to come, or who happens to be around the area, will be the guest of the Pannonian Nova Romans!

Valete!

CN LENTVLVS
LEGATVS PRO PRAETORE
Pannonia

C. Petronius Cn. Lentulo s.p.d.,

These Floralia are a good news. Yes, I may witness that it is a great event, a "flourish" event too. I was at the Floralia in Pannonia on 2762, a great and warm memory.

Have good Floralia, mi Lentule.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. XIII Kal. Iun. P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Maria Caeca Cn. Cornelio Lentulo S. P. D.

Amice, I'd wish you a wonderful festival, but that would be sending coals to Newcastle. I know it will be the most spectacular event you've ever had, and I jus wish I could be there to celebrate it with you!

Vale quam Optime!

C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XIII Kalendas Iunius; haec dies comitialis est.

"But, I beg you, Mercury, to respond to a better prayer,
And tell me when Phoebus enters Gemini, the Twins.
He said: `When you see as many days remaining
In the month as the labours Hercules completed.'
`Tell me,' I replied, `the origin of the sign.'
The god explained its origin, eloquently:
`The Tyndarides, brothers, one a horseman, the other
A boxer, raped and abducted Phoebe and her sister Hilaira.
Idas, and Lynceus, his brother, prepared to fight, and claim
Their own, both sworn to be Leucippus' sons-in-law.
Love urges one set of twins to demand restitution,
The other to refuse it: each fights for a common cause.
The Oebalids could have escaped by taking flight,
But it seemed dishonourable to conquer by their speed.
There's a spot clear of trees, a good place for a fight:
They took their stand there (its called Aphidna).
Pierced in the chest by Lynceus' sword, a wound
He'd not expected, Castor fell to the ground.
Pollux rushed to avenge him, and with his spear
Ran Lynceus through, where neck meets shoulder.
Idas attacked him then, and was only repulsed by Jove's
Lightning, yet without, they say, his weapon being torn from him.
And the heights of heaven were opening for you,
Pollux, when you cried: `Father, hear my words:
That heaven you grant me alone, share between us:
Half will be more, then, than the whole of your gift.'
He spoke, and redeemed his brother, by their changing
Places alternately: both stars aid the storm-tossed vessel." -Ovid,
Fasti V

"So like they were, no mortal
Might one from other know;
White as snow their armor was,
Their steeds were white as snow.
Never on earthly anvil
Did such rare armor gleam,
And never did such gallant steeds
Drink of an earthly stream.

Back comes the chief in triumph
Who in the hour of fight
Hath seen the great Twin Brethren
In harness on his right.
Safe comes the ship to haven
Through billows and through gales,
If once the great Twin Brethren
Sit shining on the sails." - McCaulay, "Lays of Ancient Rome"

Castor and Pollux (or "Polydeukes") were the offspring of Leda and the
Swan, under which disguise Iuppiter had concealed himself. Leda gave
birth to an egg, from which sprang the twins. Helen, so famous
afterwards as the cause of the Trojan war, was their sister. They are
known as the Gemini, Latin for twins. According to Liddell and Scott's
Lexicon, kastor is Greek for "beaver", and poludeukeis means "very
sweet".

When Theseus and his friend Pirithous had carried off Helen from
Sparta, the youthful heroes Castor and Pollux, with their
followers, hasted to her rescue. Theseus was absent from Attica,
and the brothers were successful in recovering their sister.

Castor was famous for taming and managing horses, and Pollux for
skill in boxing. They were united by the warmest affection, and
inseparable in all their enterprises. They accompanied the
Argonautic expedition. During the voyage a storm arose, and
Orpheus prayed to the Samothracian gods, and played on his harp,
whereupon the storm ceased and stars appeared on the heads of the
brothers. From this incident, Castor and Pollux came afterwards
to be considered the patron deities of seamen and voyagers (One
of the ships in which St. Paul sailed was named the Castor and
Pollux. See Acts xxviii.II.), and the lambent flames, which in
certain sates of the atmosphere play round the sails and masts of
vessels, were called by their names.

After the Argonautic expedition, we find Castor and Pollux
engaged in a war with Idas and Lynceus. Castor was slain, and
Pollux, inconsolable for the loss of his brother, besought
Jupiter to be permitted to give his own life as a ransom for him.
Jupiter so far consented as to allow the two brothers to enjoy
the boon of life alternately, passing one day under the earth and
the next in the heavenly abodes. According to another form of
the story, Jupiter rewarded the attachment of the brothers by
placing them among the stars as Gemini, the Twins.

They received divine honors under the name of Dioscuri (sons of
Jove). They were believed to have appeared occasionally in later
times, taking part with one side or the other, in hard-fought
fields, and were said on such occasions to be mounted on
magnificent white steeds. Thus, in the early history of Rome,
they are said to have assisted the Romans at the battle of Lake
Regillus, and after the victory a temple was erected in their
honor on the spot where they appeared.

The Temple of Castor and Pollux (Templum Castorum or Aedes Castoris)
introduced the Greek cult of the dioscuri into Rome, in its very
heart, the Forum Romanum, where it is located between Basilica Julia
across the Vicus Tuscus, the Temple of Divus Julius, the Arch of
Augustus and the Temple of Vesta. The foundation of the temple is
closely related to an ancient myth. The last, deposed king of Rome,
Tarquinius Superbus, and his allies, the Latins, waged war on the
infant Roman Republic. It came to a battle near the Lake Regillus in
c. 496 BC. The legend says that two able, but unknown horsemen helped
the losing the Roman troops to victory, and immediately afterwards
they were seen watering their horses at the Spring of Juturna in the
Forum Romanum. They were identified as the Dioscuri, and the dictator,
Aulus Postumius Albinus, vowed to build a temple in their honour. The
temple was finished by his son in 484 BC.

The archaic temple was completely reconstructed and enlarged in 117 BC
by L. Cecilius Metellus Dalmaticus after his victory over the
Dalmatians. This second temple was again restored in 73 BCE by Gaius
Verres.

In 14 BC the temple was destroyed by a fire that ravaged major parts
of the forum, and it was rebuilt by Tiberius, then heir to the throne.
Tiberius' temple was dedicated in AD 6. The remains visible today are
from the temple of Tiberius, except the podium, which is from the time
of Metellus.

In republican times the temple served as a meeting place for the
senate, and from the middle of the 2nd century BC the front of the
podium served as a speakers platform. During the imperial period the
temple housed the office for weights and measures, and was a
depository for the State treasury.

Valete bene!

Cato

Aeternia Cn. Cornelio Lentulo Omnbisque sal:


There you are!

Best of luck to you and your colleagues Lentule, hope it's a great festival!


Vale Optime,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes

The continuing archaeological exploration of Roman Colchester (Camulodunum) has unearthed a buried pot of coins, plus an empty pot.

The BBC has covered the story, and there are links to other reports in the piece below.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-13467666

Valete omnes

Crispus

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XII Kalendas Iunius; hic dies nefastus publicus est.

"Turn back to January to learn what the Agonia are:
Though they've a place in the calendar here as well." - Ovid, Fasti V

(Always obedient, we turn back to a.d. V Id. Ianuarius)

"The day may take its name from the girded priest
At whose blow the god's sacrifice is felled:
Always, before he stains the naked blade with hot blood,
He asks if he should (agatne), and won't unless commanded.
Some believe that the day is called Agonal because
The sheep do not come to the altar but are driven (agantur).
Others think the ancients called this festival Agnalia,
`Of the lambs', dropping a letter from its usual place.
Or because the victim fears the knife mirrored in the water,
The day might be so called from the creature's agony?
It may also be that the day has a Greek name
From the games (agones) that were held in former times.
And in ancient speech agonia meant a sheep,
And this last reason in my judgement is the truth.
Though the meaning is uncertain, the king of the rites,
Must appease the gods with the mate of a woolly ewe.
It's called the victim because a victorious hand fells it:
And hostia, sacrifice, from hostile conquered foes.
Cornmeal, and glittering grains of pure salt,
Were once the means for men to placate the gods." - Ovid, Fasti I

"Ad naturale discrimen civilia vocabula dierum accesserunt. Dicam
prius qui deorum causa, tum qui hominum sunt instituti. Dies Agonales
per quos rex in Regia arietem immolat, dicti ab "agon," eo quod
interrogat minister sacrificii "agone?": nisi si a Graeca lingua, ubi
agon princeps, ab eo quod immolatur a principe civitatis et princeps
gregis immolatur." - Varro, de Lingua Latina VI.3

Today is a celebration of the Agonalia. It was celebrated 3-4 times a
year and is believed to have been instituted by Numa Pompilius.
Although we don't know exactly what the Agonalia was all about, a ram
was sacrificed by the rex sacrificulus in the regia. The Agonalia
was a "feria stativa" or static festival, held on the ninth of January
to honor the god Ianus. The word Agonalia may have been derived from
the question the priest would pose prior to the sacrifice,"Agone?"
meaning, "Shall I slay?" Also included in the Agonalia were piles of
little cakes, "strues", made from spelt ("farro" to the present day
descendants of the Etruscans), cheese, wine, and laurel incense.

Valete bene!

Cato

Salvete omnes,

I posted this on facebook after playing it for the baby birds nested in the eaves of my house - somehow I became their babysitter while their parents escaped the next for a while.
Of course, our CA Aeternia was drawn to it - must be the Hoopoe/CA bond;)
So somehow she coerced me into posting this, so at about 1:39 you will see our CA's mascot, the Hoopoe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rL4Z9d9oObY&feature=related

Enjoy!

Valete optime,

Julia

Ave Merula,

My best to you and I shall keep you in my prayers,

Cura ut valeas,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> Just wanted to let you know I'm taking a break from Nova Roma for a while,
> not that I'm particularly active at the best of times :-). I'm not
> renouncing citizenship or anything but I just don't have the energy for it
> right now.
>
> The M.E. has been pretty bad lately and just to add the icing on the cake,
> I've been diagnosed with cancer of the breast and lymph nodes. I've been up
> and down to the hospital, which has caused a pretty major M.E. crash. I've
> had biopsies, a CT scan, a bone scan and I've to go for my first MUGA scan
> on Monday. Then I'll have neoadjuvant chemotherapy and surgery (a mastectomy
> and level 3 axillary clearance).
>
> So I'm sure you can understand I just don't have the energy for NR at the
> moment. I'll shortly be going nomail on all the lists. If you want to
> contact me for anything, it'll have to be off list. Oh and, of course, all
> prayers etc more than welcome.
>
> Take care
> Merula
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Ave Lentule amice!

Very wonderful!
How i wish I could be there with you!
Much love, happiness and bona fortuna!

Cura ut valeas,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> Cn. Lentulus legatus pro praetore Pannoniae Quiritibus s. p. d.
>
>
> I gladly and proudly announce you Consuls, Conscript Fathers and all Quirites, that I have organized the 5th Nova Roman Floralia Carnival in the Aquincum ruins area museum, Budapest, Hungary, which is our Pannonia Provincia under my authority.
>
> The event will display the usual huge Nova Roman sacrifice at the original temple and altar, with hundreds of attendants. The Nova Roma related events are, as always in the last 4 years, in the center of the city-level programs of the Aquincum Museum, Nova Roma will open the whole Carnival and we will produce other events, too, like Roman military show, Roman fashion show, Roman trial show, presentation of Roman way of life etc.
>
> A. Apollonius Cordus, C. Petronius Dexter, Sex. Lucilius Tutor and many other international Nova Roman guests who once visited this event can tell you how big and pompous it is!
>
> Pray for our success, pray for Nova Roma in Pannonia, in Hungary.
>
> AND OF COURSE: anyone who can manage to come, or who happens to be around the area, will be the guest of the Pannonian Nova Romans!
>
> Valete!
>
> CN LENTVLVS
> LEGATVS PRO PRAETORE
> Pannonia
>

Salve Julia et salvete omnes!

Um, Julia, if we both got this wish, and descended on Pannonia at the same time ...it would just *never* be the same again, but wouldn't we have fun!

Vale et valete!
Maria, mindful of just *how* easy it is to get into mischief with Julia egging me on ...or is it the other way around?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Amici,

I want to accurately translate a phrase indicating stern disapproval for a particular piece of music included in a mass.

The preside exclaimed "This must not be!"

My first crack at this is:

HOC NE FIAT!

Is that pretty accurate, or is there a better choice?

Thanks,

TH

Salve!

Dear TH, I can't identify you from your e-mail address, so please accept my apologies that I am not addressing you on your name, as it is proper in this forum.

The answer is "yes", "Hoc ne fiat" is a good Latin translation.

VALE!
Cn. Lentulus

--- Sab 21/5/11, treehorse <rroanyhoo@...> ha scritto:

Da: treehorse <rroanyhoo@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Assistance with Latin translation
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Sabato 21 maggio 2011, 20:30
















 









Salvete Amici,



I want to accurately translate a phrase indicating stern disapproval for a particular piece of music included in a mass.



The preside exclaimed "This must not be!"



My first crack at this is:



HOC NE FIAT!



Is that pretty accurate, or is there a better choice?



Thanks,



TH



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus pontifex Iuliae Aquilae pontifici SPD

Dear Julia; thanks for your good wishes! It would be amazing to have you here, as well as to have Maria here and the other New Roman sisters and brothers of our blessed and beloved Nova Roman Nation.

I am happy to announce that the first day has just finished, and it was wonderful; especially the ceremony. I had people who came to me after the huge Nova Roman sacrifice and thanked me because they felt so elevated spiritually. It meant much to me, because they were not from Nova Roma, but still they got the "feeling", the worship, respect and honor what we intended to express publicly with these sacrifices to the Gods of Nova Roma.

We ended the day with honeyed wine.

Lots of flyers recruiting for Nova Roma were distributed - so I am excited to wait for the possibly new citizens' e-mails and phone calls! We have even got a new contact with a professional archeologist group who would like to invite us create something like a Roman "show-colonia" built among the ruins of a Pannonian Roman place.

Very early tomorrow, we, Livia Plauta, Lucretia, Sp. Porcius, Valerius, Habitus and the rest of the guys and girls, will continue our efforts in serving Nova Roma with this event.

VALETE!






--- Sab 21/5/11, luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...> ha scritto:

Da: luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nova Roman Floralia Carnival in Pannonia
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Sabato 21 maggio 2011, 18:36
















 









Ave Lentule amice!



Very wonderful!

How i wish I could be there with you!

Much love, happiness and bona fortuna!



Cura ut valeas,



Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>

> Cn. Lentulus legatus pro praetore Pannoniae Quiritibus s. p. d.

>

>

> I gladly and proudly announce you Consuls, Conscript Fathers and all Quirites, that I have organized the 5th Nova Roman Floralia Carnival in the Aquincum ruins area museum, Budapest, Hungary, which is our Pannonia Provincia under my authority.

>

> The event will display the usual huge Nova Roman sacrifice at the original temple and altar, with hundreds of attendants. The Nova Roma related events are, as always in the last 4 years, in the center of the city-level programs of the Aquincum Museum, Nova Roma will open the whole Carnival and we will produce other events, too, like Roman military show, Roman fashion show, Roman trial show, presentation of Roman way of life etc.

>

> A. Apollonius Cordus, C. Petronius Dexter, Sex. Lucilius Tutor and many other international Nova Roman guests who once visited this event can tell you how big and pompous it is!

>

> Pray for our success, pray for Nova Roma in Pannonia, in Hungary.

>

> AND OF COURSE: anyone who can manage to come, or who happens to be around the area, will be the guest of the Pannonian Nova Romans!

>

> Valete!

>

> CN LENTVLVS

> LEGATVS PRO PRAETORE

> Pannonia

>



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Mareeee eeee aaaahhhh!

You were saying? Oh we all know who the real fury is, now don't we? *laughs*
Pannonia would not only never be the same again but they would rally for many repeat performances!!!!

Vale darlin'

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Julia et salvete omnes!
>
> Um, Julia, if we both got this wish, and descended on Pannonia at the same time ...it would just *never* be the same again, but wouldn't we have fun!
>
> Vale et valete!
> Maria, mindful of just *how* easy it is to get into mischief with Julia egging me on ...or is it the other way around?
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Lentulus aedili suae SPD

Thank you, boss! :)

Vale optime!
LENT.




--- Sab 21/5/11, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...> ha scritto:

Da: Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...>
Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Nova Roman Floralia Carnival in Pannonia
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Sabato 21 maggio 2011, 06:42
















 









Aeternia Cn. Cornelio Lentulo Omnbisque sal:



There you are!



Best of luck to you and your colleagues Lentule, hope it's a great festival!



Vale Optime,

Aeternia



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, Maria Caeca mea!

Thank you for you spiritual support! I am sure it contributed to that we had a god weather today (the rain came only after we finished all programs) and a great time.

Only if you could be here!

VALE!
LENTVLVS


--- Ven 20/5/11, C.Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...> ha scritto:

Da: C.Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...>
Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Nova Roman Floralia Carnival in Pannonia
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Venerdì 20 maggio 2011, 15:16
















 









C. Maria Caeca Cn. Cornelio Lentulo S. P. D.



Amice, I'd wish you a wonderful festival, but that would be sending coals to Newcastle. I know it will be the most spectacular event you've ever had, and I jus wish I could be there to celebrate it with you!



Vale quam Optime!



C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus C Dextro fl. pont. suo carissimo SPD


I can't wait the day when you come again, amice mi!

Quando te iterum in Pannonia recipiemus? Anno fortasse proximo?

VALE AMICE PONTIFEX ET FLAMEN!
LENTVLVS PONT..



--- Ven 20/5/11, Gaius Petronius Dexter <jfarnoud94@...> ha scritto:

Da: Gaius Petronius Dexter <jfarnoud94@...>
Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Nova Roman Floralia Carnival in Pannonia
A: "Nova Roma" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Data: Venerdì 20 maggio 2011, 10:03
















 









C. Petronius Cn. Lentulo s.p.d.,



These Floralia are a good news. Yes, I may witness that it is a great event, a "flourish" event too. I was at the Floralia in Pannonia on 2762, a great and warm memory.



Have good Floralia, mi Lentule.



Optime vale.



--

C. Petronius Dexter

Arcoiali scribebat

a.d. XIII Kal. Iun. P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iulia pontifex Cn. Lentulo pontifici SPD

Please send my best regards to everyone! I am there in spirit and you have a permanent place in my heart!

It so does my heart good to see cultores coming together in ceremony!

Here in Nashville we are creating ancestors masks so our ritual will be a bit different, and in the evening.

It is inspiring to hear about, and be involved in, the living breathing religio!

Cura ut valeas care amice mi!,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:
>
> Cn. Lentulus pontifex Iuliae Aquilae pontifici SPD
>
> Dear Julia; thanks for your good wishes! It would be amazing to have you here, as well as to have Maria here and the other New Roman sisters and brothers of our blessed and beloved Nova Roman Nation.
>
> I am happy to announce that the first day has just finished, and it was wonderful; especially the ceremony. I had people who came to me after the huge Nova Roman sacrifice and thanked me because they felt so elevated spiritually. It meant much to me, because they were not from Nova Roma, but still they got the "feeling", the worship, respect and honor what we intended to express publicly with these sacrifices to the Gods of Nova Roma.
>
> We ended the day with honeyed wine.
>
> Lots of flyers recruiting for Nova Roma were distributed - so I am excited to wait for the possibly new citizens' e-mails and phone calls! We have even got a new contact with a professional archeologist group who would like to invite us create something like a Roman "show-colonia" built among the ruins of a Pannonian Roman place.
>
> Very early tomorrow, we, Livia Plauta, Lucretia, Sp. Porcius, Valerius, Habitus and the rest of the guys and girls, will continue our efforts in serving Nova Roma with this event.
>
> VALETE!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --- Sab 21/5/11, luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...> ha scritto:
>
> Da: luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...>
> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Nova Roman Floralia Carnival in Pannonia
> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Sabato 21 maggio 2011, 18:36
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Ave Lentule amice!
>
>
>
> Very wonderful!
>
> How i wish I could be there with you!
>
> Much love, happiness and bona fortuna!
>
>
>
> Cura ut valeas,
>
>
>
> Julia
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Cn. Lentulus legatus pro praetore Pannoniae Quiritibus s. p. d.
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > I gladly and proudly announce you Consuls, Conscript Fathers and all Quirites, that I have organized the 5th Nova Roman Floralia Carnival in the Aquincum ruins area museum, Budapest, Hungary, which is our Pannonia Provincia under my authority.
>
> >
>
> > The event will display the usual huge Nova Roman sacrifice at the original temple and altar, with hundreds of attendants. The Nova Roma related events are, as always in the last 4 years, in the center of the city-level programs of the Aquincum Museum, Nova Roma will open the whole Carnival and we will produce other events, too, like Roman military show, Roman fashion show, Roman trial show, presentation of Roman way of life etc.
>
> >
>
> > A. Apollonius Cordus, C. Petronius Dexter, Sex. Lucilius Tutor and many other international Nova Roman guests who once visited this event can tell you how big and pompous it is!
>
> >
>
> > Pray for our success, pray for Nova Roma in Pannonia, in Hungary.
>
> >
>
> > AND OF COURSE: anyone who can manage to come, or who happens to be around the area, will be the guest of the Pannonian Nova Romans!
>
> >
>
> > Valete!
>
> >
>
> > CN LENTVLVS
>
> > LEGATVS PRO PRAETORE
>
> > Pannonia
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Lentulus Merulae SPD


I wish you good health!

I will pray for your health! We will expect you to return soon!

Valetudinem conserva et vale!

Lentulus pontifex



--- Gio 19/5/11, Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...> ha scritto:

Da: Kirsteen Wright <kirsteen.falconsfan@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Taking a break
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Giovedì 19 maggio 2011, 16:08
















 









Hi all



Just wanted to let you know I'm taking a break from Nova Roma for a while,

not that I'm particularly active at the best of times :-). I'm not

renouncing citizenship or anything but I just don't have the energy for it

right now.



The M.E. has been pretty bad lately and just to add the icing on the cake,

I've been diagnosed with cancer of the breast and lymph nodes. I've been up

and down to the hospital, which has caused a pretty major M.E. crash. I've

had biopsies, a CT scan, a bone scan and I've to go for my first MUGA scan

on Monday. Then I'll have neoadjuvant chemotherapy and surgery (a mastectomy

and level 3 axillary clearance).



So I'm sure you can understand I just don't have the energy for NR at the

moment. I'll shortly be going nomail on all the lists. If you want to

contact me for anything, it'll have to be off list. Oh and, of course, all

prayers etc more than welcome.



Take care

Merula



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Juliae Aquilae C. Mariae Caecae Cn. Cornelio Lentulo
> quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Ave Mareeee eeee aaaahhhh!
>
> ATS: Gratia plena! Dominus tecum (Ricardus juris peritus...)
>
> You were saying? Oh we all know who the real fury is, now don't we? *laughs*
> Pannonia would not only never be the same again but they would rally for many
> repeat performances!!!!
>
> ATS: I, too, wish I could be there, but circumstances prevent this.
> Utinam volatui pretium solvere possimus...et Lentulo ut nos visat!
>
> Vale darlin'
>
> Julia
>
> Valete!
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "C.Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Salve Julia et salvete omnes!
>> >
>> > Um, Julia, if we both got this wish, and descended on Pannonia at the same
>> time ...it would just *never* be the same again, but wouldn't we have fun!
>> >
>> > Vale et valete!
>> > Maria, mindful of just *how* easy it is to get into mischief with Julia
>> egging me on ...or is it the other way around?
>> >
>> >
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Aeternia Juliae Aquilae Omnibusque sal:

Moi coerce? Noooo I wouldn't.. Alright so it was slightly negotiated.

So far it seems that only me, you, and the Aedilician Cohors find the
hilarity of the Hoopoe. Since the incident I have done a great deal of
research about the Hoopoe and decided to take it all in good stride with
light humor.

Long live the Upupa Epops, that cheeky little Aves :-)



Vale Optime,

Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]