SALVETE!

Hodie est Kalendae Iuniae; haec dies nefastus est: Iuno Moneta; Ludi Saeculares; Sacrum Iunonis Covellae.

This day, 1st of June, celebrates the dedication of four temples at Rome:

- Temple of Juno Regina, a temple on the Aventine vowed by Camillus just before the taking of Veii in 396 BC to the Iuno Regina of Veii and dedicated by him in 392 BC:

"An enormous crowd went and filled the camp. After the Dictator had taken the auspices and issued orders for the soldiers to arm for battle, he uttered this prayer: `Pythian Apollo, guided and inspired by thy will I go forth to destroy the city of Veii, and a tenth part of its spoils I devote to thee. Thee too, Queen Juno, who now dwellest in Veii, I beseech, that thou wouldst follow us, after our victory, to the City which is ours and which will soon be thine, where a temple worthy of thy majesty will receive thee."
[Perseus Digital Library, T. Livius, The History of Rome, Book V, 23-1]

- Temple of Mars dedicated in the Clivus Martis in 388 BC:

"This same day is a festival of Mars, whose temple
By the Covered Way is seen from beyond the Capene Gate"
[Poetry in translation, A.S Kline, Ovidius, Fasti, Book VI, June 1: Kalends]


- Temple of Juno Moneta vowed by M. Furius Camillus during the war with the Aurunci in 345 B.C., erected by duoviri appointed by the senate pro amplitudine populi Romani, and dedicated in 344 BC. It was on the arx, on the site formerly occupied by the house of M. Manlius Capitolinus.

"M. Fabius Dorsuo and Ser. Sulpicius Camerinus were the next consuls. A sudden raid by the Auruncans led to a war with that people. [2] Fears were entertained that more than one city was concerned in this, that in fact it had been planned by the entire Latin League. To meet all Latium in arms L. Furius Camillus was nominated Dictator; he appointed Cnaeus Manlius Capitolinus Master of the Horse. [3] As usual in great and sudden alarms a suspension of all business was proclaimed and the enlistment was made without any claims to exemption being allowed; when it was completed the legions were marched as rapidly as possible against the Auruncans. They showed the temper of marauders rather than of soldiers, and the war was finished in the very first battle. [4] But as they had begun the war without any provocation and had shown no reluctance to accept battle, the Dictator thought it his duty to secure the help of the gods, and during the actual fighting he vowed a temple to Juno Moneta. On his victorious return to Rome, he resigned his Dictatorship to discharge his vow. [5] The senate ordered two commissioners to be appointed to carry out the construction of that temple in a style commensurate with the greatness of the Roman people, and a site was marked out in the Citadel where the house of M. Manlius Capitolinus had stood."
[Perseus Digital Library, T. Livius, The History of Rome, Book VII, 28]

- Temple of the Tempestes dedicated near the Porta Capena in 259 BC.

"You too, Tempest, were considered worthy of a shrine,
After our fleet was almost sunk in Corsican waters"
[Poetry in translation, A.S Kline, Ovidius, Fasti, Book VI, June 1: Kalends]


Ludi Saeculares led by Augustus and his son-in-law, Vipsanius Agrippa as members of quindecimviri in 17 BC.

Nocturnal sacrifices to Greek deities on the Campus Martius alternated with day-time sacrifices to Roman deities on the Capitoline and Palatine hills: May 31 (night) – Moirae; June 1st (day) – Iupiter Optimus Maximus; June ist (night) – Ilithya; June 2nd (day) – Iuno Regina; June 2nd (night) – Terra Mater; June 3rd (day) – Apollo and Diana.

"Under the same consulate, eight hundred years from the foundation of Rome, sixty-four from their presentation by Augustus, came a performance of the Secular Games"
[Lacus Curtius, Tacitus, Annals, XI-11]

This day, capite velato, I have invoked Iuno Covella on the 5th day by saying the traditional formula: "Die Quinte te kalo Iuno Covella"

I offered incense and saying prayers I asked the Goddess to be favorable toward us, the entire Nova Roman community.

The festivals to be celebrated in the month of June shall be:

IUNIUS:

1 N Kal.
2 F Nundina; Dies ater.
3 C
4 C
5 N Non; Religiousus.
6 N, Dies ater.
7 N Religiousus.
8 N Religiousus.
9 N Religious; Vestalia.
10 N Nundina; Religiousus.
11 N Religiosus; Matralia.
12 N Religiosus.
13 NP Id; Religiosus; Feriae Iovi.
14 N Dies ater.
15 QSDF.
16 C
17 C
18 C Nundina
19 C
20 C
21 C
22 C
23 C
24 C
25 C
26 C Nundina
27 C
28 C
29 C
30 C
31 C

At the end I poured a libation of honeyed milk thanking to the Goddess for Her benevolence.

VALETE,
Sabinus

A. Tullia Scholastica P. Memmio Albucio C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae
voluntatis S.P.D.

As some Yahoo glitch (or that is what we hope it is) has made it
impossible for me to post to the Senate list, let me take a stab at
addressing portions of this similar post here.

> Consul Cato, salve,
>
> Thanks first for this new effort!
>
> I understand you wish having a litteral interpretation of our laws, and
> specially our sc de ratione senatu, prevail on the mos maiorum.
> As you remind it, this is your right, as this is my duty of censor to remind
> that the Senate of Rome, when in session, has constantly closed its doors at
> sunset and re-opened it at dawn the next day.

ATS: That's all very well, but they all lived in the same time zone and
didn't have electricity.

>
> I would like that you understand that this working is not only about a simple
> working of any average non-profit corporation, but about the respect of custom
> rules set in a close relation with religious ones. To say it short, night is
> "nefas" for public acts taken on behalf of a "contract" with our gods (which
> "contract" the auspices witness) and daylight is not (let aside the special
> status of certain days).
>
> Then, the question of having one official reference time zone, and specially
> Rome's, is another question.
>
> We all remind that our lex Cornelia de tempore publico constituendo sets that:
> "For all purposes, the time in Rome shall be regarded as the official time of
> Nova Roma". There is no ambiguity : every official act which is supposed to
> produce legal effects is supposed to be taken under Rome time.
>
> This rule, imo, is a rule of common sense : first, it is one of the basic
> rules that a Roman Republic is morally obliged to set, if the Roman heritage
> means something for her/his members ; second, it is a convenient one for it
> gives a sole time official zone reference. If we were in some Shintoist
> organization, I suppose that the Kyoto time zone would be preferred, as well
> as, if we were in a Navajo International Council, our time zone would probably
> be Window Rock's one.
>
> Here is why I feel necessary to insist on respecting Rome time zone in each of
> our official acts (i.e. 'which are intended to produce legal effects').
>
> The last question is the conjunction Rome time + daylight time.
> I am fully aware that a strict working on Rome time zone, specially for the
> debate periods, is uneasy : I have tested this last year as consul, and
> arrived to the conclusion that, for ex. in our Senate, it is impossible to
> lead the *discussions* of our central assemblies (senate, comitia) within Rome
> time daylight zone.
>
> Now, what is impossible for the contiones is, nevertheless, possible for our
> *voting* periods or for every of our official acts.

ATS: Here you are wrong, for this is quite difficult, even impossible,
for those residing far away from the Roman time zone. Even working with
daylight in one's own time zone is quite challenging, especially in winter.
Not everyone has net access at work, and days are shorter than the workday,
thus making it all but impossible. Is disenfranchisement of non-Europeans
your goal?

>
> It just ask *a bit efforts* by the concerned official : just that (s)he knows
> her/his time difference with Rome.
> If we consider the Senate, each senator should know, since a long time, this
> difference : this is one of the basic duties we may expect from a senator.
> So, for a presiding magistrate or a consul, checking the time in Rome just
> requires 3 things, that (s)he :
> - reminds that (s)he, as an eminent member of a Roman Republic, (s) he has
> basic duties towards what Rome represents, here in terms of official time ;
> - keeps in mind that no public act should be performed from sunset to sunrise
> (mos maiorum) ;
> - sends her/his vote or any official annoucement etc. within Rome daylight.

ATS: Not difficult in summer if one lives in a time zone adjacent to
that of Rome. Rather difficult for those 9 or 10 or more hours different,
especially in the winter.

>
> Example: it takes 2 minutes to check (for ex. on the site :
> http://www.timeanddate.com/ )
>
> that, let us say NYC (EDT) is 6 hours late compared with Rome and that Rome
> daylight is between 05h38 and 20h36. This means that for a NR civis living in
> NYC, a decision, act, vote, etc. should be cast between, in local time, 23h38
> on D-1 and 14h36 on day D.
>
> We see that, for an official living in one of the 23 U.S. States covered by
> EDT (so around 50% of the US States), casting a vote in Rome time is possible
> : it just requires that the concerned official either goes to bed not before
> 23:38 ((s)he is not asked to every day! ;-) ), or find time from the moment
> (s)he gets up and until 2:36 pm.

ATS: Sure, an I think...

>
> You see, we are really not far from a point where we could reach both an
> adapted and clever respect of our mos and, at the same time, take in
> consideration our various time zones for our discussions. It just requires a
> *basic effort* from our senators and officials and your, consuls', support and
> watch.
>
> It costs really not much (maybe, in terms of time, for the Senate regular
> reminders from the presiding magistrate, for ex. in the convening announces,
> and once before the voting period) and would bring back much for our Republic
> shared values and image.
>
> Vale Consul,
>
>
> Albucius csr

Vale, et valete.

>
>
>
>
>
>
> To: SenatusRomanus@yahoogroups.com
> From: catoinnyc@...
> Date: Sun, 29 May 2011 22:29:32 +0000
> Subject: [SenatusRomanus] CLOSING THE SENATE SESSION of Aprilis 2764
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Cato omnibus in senatu SPD
>
> OK. What the censor says in one particular instance is correct, if only in
> that I did not "officially" announce the closing of the earlier Senate
> session. I will do so now:
>
> The Senate session for Aprilis 2764 is hereby officially closed; the voting
> results have been issued already. I request that the tribunes issue an
> official announcement in the Forum.
>
> I am going to wait and ask the augur Valerianus to take brand new auspices for
> a session of the Senate to open on a.d. XV Kal. Quinct. and run through a.d.
> VIII Kal. Quinct. This will give us a couple of weeks to regroup and take
> stock.
>
> However. I disagree that the Senate should "close" every night at sundown
> Roman time, and this will not happen; there is nothing historic about it in
> that the ancients all lived in Rome and so had the luxury of a single time
> zone.
>
> Since - once again - the censor does not have the authority to decide when a
> vote can or cannot be taken as he is neither the presiding magistrate nor does
> he have the power to interpret the law, I have considered his suggestion - and
> I do not find anything to justify this suggestion that the Senate may only
> vote during daytime in Rome.
>
> There is nothing in our law which requires this, and in fact there is
> suggested quite the opposite:
>
> "It is recommended that the voting period begin at sunrise in Rome on the
> first day of the voting period and end at sunset in Rome on the last day of
> the voting period." - Senatus consultum de ratione senatus MMDCCLIX, VI.E
>
> Therefore, the contio and voting periods shall be - as they have been in Nova
> Roma - uninterrupted; senators may speak and vote at any time during the
> respective periods for doing so.
>
> That is my official word on the matter. If this does not sit well with anyone
> I suggest that they introduce legislation to this House to change it and the
> Senate can vote on it.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
>
>
>
>

Q Caecilius Metellus A Tulliae Scholasticae s.d.

> ATS: Here you are wrong, for this is quite difficult, even impossible,
> for those residing far away from the Roman time zone. Even working with
> daylight in one's own time zone is quite challenging, especially in winter.
> Not everyone has net access at work, and days are shorter than the workday,
> thus making it all but impossible. Is disenfranchisement of non-Europeans
> your goal?

This is quite disturbing. I think we are all very well aware that
daylight is shorter in winter than in summer for the greater majority of
the world, so I shan't be re-addressing that. Nevertheless, I feel
rather certain that a few minutes of daylight, even a full half-hour if
truly necessary, could be found or made available, to allow for the
casting of one's senatorial vote.

It is very, very upsetting to know that you think so little of your
senatorial seat, as to fail, or else outright refuse, to give it the
dignity it deserves by treating it seriously enough to appropriately
make time to cast your vote. One can only hope the caliber of your
execution of your senatorial duty is not the standard for your
colleagues in the Senate.

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Q. Caecilio Metello quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Q Caecilius Metellus A Tulliae Scholasticae s.d.
>
>> > ATS: Here you are wrong, for this is quite difficult, even impossible,
>> > for those residing far away from the Roman time zone. Even working with
>> > daylight in one's own time zone is quite challenging, especially in winter.
>> > Not everyone has net access at work, and days are shorter than the workday,
>> > thus making it all but impossible. Is disenfranchisement of non-Europeans
>> > your goal?
>
> This is quite disturbing. I think we are all very well aware that
> daylight is shorter in winter than in summer for the greater majority of
> the world, so I shan't be re-addressing that. Nevertheless, I feel
> rather certain that a few minutes of daylight, even a full half-hour if
> truly necessary, could be found or made available, to allow for the
> casting of one's senatorial vote.
>
> ATS2: Apparently, Metelle, you failed to note my statement that some
> people do not have net access during the work day, which typically occurs
> during daylight. Winter daylight is also nonexistent in the extreme far
> north; there is only twilight. Now where you are in the Southwest, that may
> not be an issue, but to take but one example, the winter sun seemed to set
> around 3 PM in Seattle, and to rise after 9 AM, when many people are in school
> or at work. The days would be even shorter farther North. In addition,
> teachers typically do not have access while teaching their classes, nor do
> many others while they are performing their assigned tasks. Probably you do.
> Apparently Sulla does. Others don¹t.
>
> It is very, very upsetting to know that you think so little of your
> senatorial seat, as to fail, or else outright refuse, to give it the
> dignity it deserves by treating it seriously enough to appropriately
> make time to cast your vote.
>
> ATS2: You are very sadly mistaken. However, at the moment, I cannot
> access the senate list, so if I had to vote, there is no way that I could do
> so, even if it were high noon here or in Rome. Yahoo thinks that I do not
> belong to the Senate, and has refused my posts despite efforts on my part and
> those a consul stated he has made. Now maybe this is a ploy to keep me from
> the Senate, and maybe it is a Yahoo glitch, but the result is the same. I
> have never refused to vote in the Senate, but it is my right to state that
> this kind of Pharisee and Publican nitpicking is both inconvenient and often
> outright impossible for a good many of us. We are not in ancient Rome; we are
> in New Rome, and we make adjustments accordingly. That¹s what intelligent
> people do.
>
> Does the Jewish Sabbath begin at sundown in Jerusalem, or in one¹s own
> time zone? Does Ramadan begin with the new moon sighting in Mecca, or in
> one¹s own time zone? Is the Easter sunrise service timed to coincide with
> sunrise in Rome, or Athens, or in one¹s own area? Midnight Mass at Christmas?
> For that matter, does New Year¹s Day begin in one¹s own area, or at GMT, or at
> the first time zone which passes midnight (maybe the dateline...)? Perhaps
> you may recall that the USSR set all of its many time zones at Moscow time, no
> matter how inconvenient that was for the far Eastern reaches of its territory,
> but that is hardly the best example to follow. Some of us are sensible.
>
>
> One can only hope the caliber of your
> execution of your senatorial duty is not the standard for your
> colleagues in the Senate.
>
> ATS2: The caliber of my execution of my senatorial duties is at or above
> the standard for those therein, Metelle. More importantly, my behavior there
> (and elsewhere) far exceeds the low standard set by some who have been allowed
> to bring their bullying and ruffian behavior into the Senate chambers. You
> have greatly mistaken my words, and must remember some very ancient ones:
> judge not lest ye be judged.
>
> Valete.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est Kalendae Iuniae; hic dies nefastus publicus est.

"Carna, the first day's yours. Goddess of the hinge:
She opens the closed, by her power, closes the open.
The story of how she gained the powers she has is obscured
By time, but you'll still learn of it from my verse.
There's an ancient grove of Alernus near the Tiber:
And the priests still make sacrifices there.
A nymph was born there (men of old called her Cranae)
Who was often sought in vain by many suitors.
She used to hunt the land, chasing wild beasts with spears,
Stretching her woven nets in the hollow valleys.
She'd no quiver, yet considered herself Apollo's
Sister: nor need you, Apollo, have been ashamed of her.
If any youth spoke words of love to her,
She gave him this answer right away:
`There's too much light here, it's too shameful
In the light: if you'll lead to a darker cave, I'll follow.'
While he went in front, credulously, she no sooner reached
The bushes than she hid: and was nowhere to be found.
Janus saw her, and the sight raised his passion.
He used soft words to the hard-hearted nymph.
She told him to find a more private cave,
Followed him closely: then deserted her leader.
Foolish child! Janus can see what happens behind him:
You gain nothing: he looks back at your hiding place.
Nothing gained, as I said, you see! He caught you, hidden
Behind a rock, clasped you, worked his will, then said:
`In return for our union, the hinges belong to you:
Have them as recompense for your maidenhead.'
So saying he gave her a thorn (it was white-thorn)
With which to drive away evil from the threshold.
There are some greedy birds, not those that cheated
Phineus of his meal, though descended from that race:
Their heads are large, their eyes stick out, their beaks
Fit for tearing, their feathers are grey, their claws hooked.
They fly by night, attacking children with absent nurses,
And defiling their bodies, snatched from the cradle.
They're said to rend the flesh of infants with their beaks,
And their throats are full of the blood they drink.
They're called screech-owls, and the reason for the name
Is the horrible screeching they usually make at night.
Whether they're born as birds, or whether they're made so
By spells, old women transformed to birds by Marsian magic,
They still entered Proca's bedroom. Proca was fresh
Prey for the birds, a child of five days old.
They sucked at the infant's chest, with greedy tongues:
And the wretched child screamed for help.
Scared at his cry, the nurse ran to her ward,
And found his cheeks slashed by their sharp claws.
What could she do? The colour of the child's face
Was that of late leaves nipped by an early frost.
She went to Cranae and told her: Cranae said:
`Don't be afraid: your little ward will be safe.'
She approached the cradle: the parents wept:
`Restrain your tears,' she said, `I'll heal him.'
Quickly she touched the doorposts, one after the other,
Three times, with arbutus leaves, three times with arbutus
Marked the threshold: sprinkled the entrance with water,
Medicinal water, while holding the entrails of a two-month sow:
And said: `Birds of night, spare his entrails:
A small victim's offered here for a small child.
Take a heart for a heart, I beg, flesh for flesh,
This life we give you for a dearer life.'
When she'd sacrificed, she placed the severed flesh
In the open air, and forbade those there to look at it.
A `rod of Janus', taken from a whitethorn, was set
Where a little window shed light into the room.
After that, they say, the birds avoided the cradle,
And the boy recovered the colour he'd had before.
You ask why we eat greasy bacon-fat on the Kalends,
And why we mix beans with parched grain?
She's an ancient goddess, nourished by familiar food,
No epicure to seek out alien dainties.
In ancient times the fish still swam unharmed,
And the oysters were safe in their shells.
Italy was unaware of Ionian heath-cocks,
And the cranes that enjoy Pigmy blood:
Only the feathers of the peacock pleased,
And the nations didn't send us captive creatures.
Pigs were prized: men feasted on slaughtered swine:
The earth only yielded beans and hard grains.
They say that whoever eats these two foods together
At the Kalends, in this sixth month, will have sweet digestion.
They also say that the shrine of Juno Moneta was founded
On the summit of the citadel, according to your vow, Camillus:
Before it was built, the house of Manlius had protected
Capitoline Jove against the Gallic weapons.
Great Gods, it would have been better, if he'd fallen,
In defence of your throne, noble Jupiter!
He lived to be executed, condemned for seeking kingship:
That was the crown long years granted him.
This same day is a festival of Mars, whose temple
By the Covered Way is seen from beyond the Capene Gate.
You too, Tempest, were considered worthy of a shrine,
After our fleet was almost sunk in Corsican waters.
These human monuments are obvious. If you look
For stars too, great Jove's eagle, with curved talons, rises." - Ovid,
Fasti VI

"The Sabinoi [Sabines of Italia], since they had long been at war with
the Ombrikoi, vowed to dedicate everything that was produced that
year; and, on winning the victory, they partly sacrificed and partly
dedicated all that was produced; then a dearth ensued, and some one
said that they ought to have dedicated the babies too; this they did,
and devoted to Mars all the children born that year; and these
children, when grown to manhood, they sent away as colonists, and a
bull led the way; and when the bull lay down to rest in the land of
the Opikoi...the Sabinoi ejected them and settled on the spot, and, in
accordance with the utterance of their seers, slaughtered the bull as
a sacrifice to Mars who had given it for a guide." -Strabo 5.4.12

"Ares, to gory strife he speedeth, wroth with foes, when maddeneth his
heart, and grim his frown is, and his eyes flash levin-flame around
him, and his face is clothed with glory of beauty terror-blent, as on
he rusheth: quail the very Gods." - Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 7.400

Today is the Kalends of Iunius; although the month is dedicated to
Iuno, today is specifically held in honor of Mars, the god of war,
known to the Greeks as Ares. Mars, unlike his Greek counterpart, Ares
the god of war, was more widely worshipped than any of the other Roman
gods, probably in part because his sons by the Vestal Virgin Rhea
Silvia, Romulus and Remus, were said to have founded Rome; the Romans
called themselves the sons of Mars. Venus, who was Mars' consort in
legends borrowed from the Greek mythos, held similar importance for
them because of her relationship to Aeneas. Mars was also one of the
three supreme Roman deities of the Archaic Triad, along with Jupiter
and Quirinus.

The primary temple to Mars, dedicated to Mars Gradivus (referring to
Mars' role of preceding the army in battle) was on the northeast side
of the Via Appia outside the Porta Capena, between the first and
second milestones. As a result of the temple, this district came to be
known as ad Martis ("to [the temple] of Mars"). The temple contained a
statue of Mars and probably images of wolves. It was vowed during the
Gallic invasions, and was dedicated c. June 1, 388 BC. It was also the
site where the Roman army gathered before leaving for a war, and was
praised upon returning from victorious battles.

Another major temple to Mars, shared with Jupiter and Quirinus, was on
the Capitoline Hill. Another, the Temple of Mars Ultor ("Mars the
Avenger"), was in the Forum Augustus. It was dedicated in 2 BC by
Augustus, and paid tribute to Mars for supposedly aiding Augustus at
the Battle of Philippi. Yet another temple, designed by a Greek
architect, was built in the Circus Flaminius by Decimus Junius Brutus
Callaicus, probably after his triumph c. 133 BC. It contained a
massive statue of Mars and a naked Venus by Sopas, and the path to the
temple was decorated with verses by the poet Lucius Accius. Julius
Caesar planned to build a titanic temple to Mars on the Naumachia, a
lake used for mock sea battles, but the site was instead used as part
of the location of the Pantheon.

The Campus Martius ("Field of Mars") was dedicated to Mars, and was
where soldiers and athletes trained. Mars also had an altar there, the
Ara Martis. In the Regia on the Roman Forum, the hastae Martiae
("lances of Mars") were kept in a small chamber. Any movement of the
hastae Martiae was seen as an omen of war. If Rome was attacking, the
generals moved their lances and repeated "Mars vigila!" ("Awaken, Mars!").

Valete bene!

Cato

Reminder from:		Nova-Roma Yahoo! Group
Title:		After every Kalends, Nones, Ides, the next day is "Ater"
Date:		Thursday June 2, 2011
Time:		All Day
Repeats:		This event repeats every month.
Notes:		Ater (unlucky) *Gods or Goddesses should not be invoked by name while indoors, and no celestial God or Goddess should be invoked by name while outdoors. *Sacrifices should not be made, even at the lararium. *These days are ill-omened to begin any new project since any new project would necessarily begin by performing a rite calling for the assistance of the gods. Such religious rites, beginning something new, are not to be performed. *Avoid making journeys, or doing anything risky.
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Q Caecilius Metellus A Tulliae Scholasticae scr.

> >> > ATS: Here you are wrong, for this is quite difficult, even impossible,
> >> > for those residing far away from the Roman time zone. Even working with
> >> > daylight in one's own time zone is quite challenging, especially in winter.
> >> > Not everyone has net access at work, and days are shorter than the workday,
> >> > thus making it all but impossible. Is disenfranchisement of non-Europeans
> >> > your goal?
> >
> > This is quite disturbing. I think we are all very well aware that
> > daylight is shorter in winter than in summer for the greater majority of
> > the world, so I shan't be re-addressing that. Nevertheless, I feel
> > rather certain that a few minutes of daylight, even a full half-hour if
> > truly necessary, could be found or made available, to allow for the
> > casting of one's senatorial vote.
> >
> > ATS2: Apparently, Metelle, you failed to note my statement that some
> > people do not have net access during the work day, which typically occurs
> > during daylight. Winter daylight is also nonexistent in the extreme far
> > north; there is only twilight. Now where you are in the Southwest, that may
> > not be an issue, but to take but one example, the winter sun seemed to set
> > around 3 PM in Seattle, and to rise after 9 AM, when many people are in school
> > or at work. The days would be even shorter farther North. In addition,
> > teachers typically do not have access while teaching their classes, nor do
> > many others while they are performing their assigned tasks. Probably you do.
> > Apparently Sulla does. Others don¹t.

As a matter of fact, I noted your statement quite well. That was, in
fact, the purpose of my statement. Have you never left work early, or
taken a full day off work, for, say, a doctor's appointment? Do you
accomplish all your banking electronically or on weekends? I know
you're an intelligent person: I believe my point is clear now; even if
it isn't, I remain glad to clarify it more.

> > It is very, very upsetting to know that you think so little of your
> > senatorial seat, as to fail, or else outright refuse, to give it the
> > dignity it deserves by treating it seriously enough to appropriately
> > make time to cast your vote.
> >
> > ATS2: You are very sadly mistaken. However, at the moment, I cannot
> > access the senate list, so if I had to vote, there is no way that I could do
> > so, even if it were high noon here or in Rome. Yahoo thinks that I do not
> > belong to the Senate, and has refused my posts despite efforts on my part and
> > those a consul stated he has made. Now maybe this is a ploy to keep me from
> > the Senate, and maybe it is a Yahoo glitch, but the result is the same. I
> > have never refused to vote in the Senate, but it is my right to state that
> > this kind of Pharisee and Publican nitpicking is both inconvenient and often
> > outright impossible for a good many of us. We are not in ancient Rome; we are
> > in New Rome, and we make adjustments accordingly. That¹s what intelligent
> > people do.

Should everything worth doing be convenient? Surely that's not what you
mean to say, but the implication is there clearly enough. No, we are
not in ancient Rome, any more than we are all in the same time zone.
But we all ought to be dedicated enough to do what needs to be done to
accomplish what needs to be accomplished, and that may come to mean
that, although inconvenient, time may need to be made to do one's duty.

> > Does the Jewish Sabbath begin at sundown in Jerusalem, or in one¹s own
> > time zone? Does Ramadan begin with the new moon sighting in Mecca, or in
> > one¹s own time zone? Is the Easter sunrise service timed to coincide with
> > sunrise in Rome, or Athens, or in one¹s own area? Midnight Mass at Christmas?
> > For that matter, does New Year¹s Day begin in one¹s own area, or at GMT, or at
> > the first time zone which passes midnight (maybe the dateline...)? Perhaps
> > you may recall that the USSR set all of its many time zones at Moscow time, no
> > matter how inconvenient that was for the far Eastern reaches of its territory,
> > but that is hardly the best example to follow. Some of us are sensible.

Thank you for illustrating my point, and the purpose of the earlier
piggy-back suggestion I made to Consul Cato and Censor Albucius!

> > One can only hope the caliber of your
> > execution of your senatorial duty is not the standard for your
> > colleagues in the Senate.
> >
> > ATS2: The caliber of my execution of my senatorial duties is at or above
> > the standard for those therein, Metelle. More importantly, my behavior there
> > (and elsewhere) far exceeds the low standard set by some who have been allowed
> > to bring their bullying and ruffian behavior into the Senate chambers. You
> > have greatly mistaken my words, and must remember some very ancient ones:
> > judge not lest ye be judged.

Those are words which you should apply to yourself if you intend to put
them on others. Nevertheless, you have demonstrated quite a bit,
especially of late, as is well noted.

C. Petronius Dexter C. Tullio Valeriano et omnibus, qui in hoc Foro spatiantur, s.p.d.,

The problem that I have with Nova Roma is to explain its activity about its generous goals publicly claimed on our website. It is obvious that when a friend of mine wants to know more things on Nova Roma, I am very embarrassed. Or I say it is an organization searching to reenact the Roman society in our times, and automatically the main question of my friends is : "Why the English language is the most common on Nova Roma?" This question, I guess, is very French because as you know French people is the one people in Europe who does not want to speak English. After 7 years of English school, a pupil cannot tell another English sentence than: "My tailor is rich".

So, for my friends it is very strange than an organization which claim to reenact Rome does not promote the Latin language. But, it is also perhaps an excuse, because if French people is not very warm to learn English, he is very cold to learn a "dead language" as the Latin, too. But as my friends to whom I spoke on Nova Roma are from the Circulus Latinus Lutetiensis, those guys are rather interested in learning the Latin than the majority of French people.

Or I say that Nova Roma is a living organisation with power struggles, ambitious people, able to push away a part of citizens and every year with less and less active citizens. It will not be an help if I say that Nova Roma is as I like, a kind corner in which it is good to meet between us and speaking about religio or Latin. If I said this sort of commercials, I will make many deceptions.

So I know what I want from Nova Roma but I know that Nova Roma is not mine and I prefer to notice its changes and evolutions than to make a marble table of "Nova Roma according to Dexter". ;o)

Optime valete.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. IV Non. Iun. P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tulliae sen. Caecilio pont. omn.que s.d.

>ATS: Here you are wrong, for this is quite difficult, even
>impossible, for those residing far away from the Roman time zone. >Even working with daylight in one's own time zone is quite >challenging, especially in winter.Not everyone has net access at >work, and days are shorter than the workday, thus making it all but >impossible. Is disenfranchisement of non-Europeans your goal? (..) >some people do not have net access during the work day, which >typically occurs during daylight. Winter daylight is also >nonexistent in the extreme far north; there is only twilight. (..) >one example, the winter sun seemed to set around 3 PM in Seattle, >and to rise after 9 AM, when many people are in school or at work. (..) In addition, teachers typically do not have access while >teaching their classes, nor do many others while they are performing >their assigned tasks. (..)

Dear Scholastica senatrix, the way you mind thinking of every possible situation is not at stake, and honors you. I think however that Metellus Pontifex' reasoning is a good one.

Let us remember that the time period allowed to discussions in the Senate is not is not at stake here, but the vote on Rome time zone. Let us also remember that we are under, currently, a law (de tempore...) which sets Rome time as the official one. Besides the fact that this sounds much logical to me (maybe not for some of us), this is a fact and a legal obligation.

Now, if we want to examine the arguments which could lead us to show that such habit is incompatible with the way we live, all around the world, we will see that, as Metellus well points at it, this may be less easy for some of us, but, at the end, it is just a matter of good will and light effort.

Just a step point here : we live in a rather balanced system, I mean in Nova Roma : we use internet in our discussions, English as an official language, and Rome time as a reference. The efforts that might be asked, on the time zone "issue" to a Seattle (?) senator, for ex., are balanced, for ex., by the ones that an Italian senator does every time he has to express in English. In terms of efforts, the matter is said : the Italian senator has the big advantage living under Rome time, having the Ancient ruins nearly at his/her door, but needs to express in a language which is the ones of our Founders and of a large part of our citizenry. To say it short, each time you send a message in our forums and spend 10 minutes for it, our average fellow Italians spend twice, and possibly more.
No scandal, for me, in this situation, as long as the ones or the others do not try to draw the blanket to them and promote their selfishness. For, imo, people do not keep this balance in mind enough.


Now, on each of your thoughts :

>people do not have net access during the work day, which typically >occurs during daylight.

Yes, and.... ? The civis working in Tokyo lives in +8 in winter (compared to Rome time) and the Seattle one in -9.

When the Tokyo's civis works on 07:30-19:00, in winter (to take the worst season in your mind), in Rome it is 23:30-11:00. This means that the Japanese civis, when (s)he votes as a senator or as a civis, when back at home, has left nearly 6 hours to vote!

The workday of the Seattle's civis, if ever he worked as much than her/his Japanese fellow, is equivalent, in Rome time, to 16:30-04:00.
Here, you are right pointing at that such a civis or senator would have less time for, in winter, let us say on the solstice, the sun sets at 16:41. So, what will do our Seattle's friend ? (S)he will make what a few of us seem to have forgotten that this word belongs their vocabulary and our Roman virtues : an effort.

The Seattle civis will just mind getting up on the morning, for ex., a quarter of an hour earlier to vote quietly before leaving home, or, if (s)he prefers, (s)he will wait 3,5 hours after the return home, and cast the vote at 22:33, when the sun rises in Rome at the same time. You see : even in the worst case, a good will senator has much time left to honor his/her dignity.

So, no impossibility, nowhere.

>Winter daylight is also nonexistent in the extreme far north; there >is only twilight.

The conditions of our environment in the place we live are not the matter ! :-) The matter is the time difference with Rome. If you would live in North Pole, your life would be organized according a rhythm which would be submitted to a defined time zone, the relevant Canadian ones, or Swedish ones, or Russian ones, etc.. Our point is not the real latitude and how close we are from one Pole, but time zone differences i.e. in other terms, the longitude

And we just saw, in the example above, that they are no problems about this longitudinal difference.

>In addition, teachers typically do not have access while teaching >their classes, nor do many >others while they are performing their >assigned tasks. (..)

Naturally, the teacher is not supposed leaving her/his teachers alone during a quarter of an hour, even it is at worst once a month, to go typing on a keyboard. But I suppose that every teacher of the world is not obliged to work 24h on 24 and that, like our Tokyo's or Seattle's friends, they have a private life, during which we well saw that it was perfectly possible to vote on Rome time.

>We are not in ancient Rome; we are in New Rome, and we make >adjustments accordingly. That's what intelligent

I have shown that the matter of voting on Rome time should not be at stake in a good faith discussion. Being a Roman (wo)man should then mean, for every of us, practice of Roman virtues and, specially making effort for the community. Here, we see that the effort is a tiny one.
The adjustments you are speaking of have already been done. In the Senate, the discussions may be lead in local time. The senators just need to cast their votes, because they are official acts, in Rome time. Note, last, that in case of exceptional situations, every civis -therefore senator- may vote by proxy, and that currently, a senator has Â… four days to vote (!!).

So there is no serious reason why our system could not work, taking in consideration that I have never heard of a problem raised by an average citizen during a comitia.
Our cives do not protest against our official time zone. I think that first the reference to Rome is, for them, a part of the "commitment package" and second that, the less they can vote, the more the right to vote begins precious, and that they are ready to make efforts for it.

I would like that every senator keeps this thought in mind, and remembers that the senatorial dignitas is something to be deserved through example, auctoritas, and effort.


Vale sincerely,


P. Memmius Albucius
censor

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Just a quick note: I have already decided that the voting *period* in the Senate will be determined by Rome time, as suggested in our law:

"It is recommended that the voting period begin at sunrise in Rome on the first day of the voting period and end at sunset in Rome on the last day of the voting period." - Senatus consultum de ratione senatus MMDCCLIX, VI.E

Albucius is absolutely incorrect in implying that every senator individually must vote during daylight hours in Rome. They may vote at any time within the period set aside for voting.

The internal procedures of the Senate are not determined by any legal authority except those put in place by the Senate itself under the authority of the Constitution, and voting most certainly is an internal procedure.

Extrapolating from our official time being that of Rome's to the demand that all senators act as if they are in Rome - even if only for the purposes of voting - is not within the censor's power. He cannot interpret the law on his own, nor can he demand that his interpretation be obeyed. Censors do not carry imperium, and they do not have the authority to interpret the law.

He can *ask*, with reasons for his asking being stated, just as any senator can ask for something pertaining to the way our procedures are followed. Albucius also, like any senator, can absolutely introduce legislation to the Senate to change this; but he cannot simply demand it and expect it to be done.

I have already made my decision: voting periods will last from sunrise Rome time on the first day of voting to sunset Rome time on the last day of voting, uninterrupted - as recommended, not demanded, by our law.

Valete bene,

Cato

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem IV Nonas Iunius; hic dies fastus aterque est.

"Next light summons the Hyades, the horns on Taurus'
Brow, and then the earth's soaked with heavy rain." - Ovid, Fasti VI

"She [Python] it was who once received from gold-throned Hera and
brought up fell, cruel Typhaon to be a plague to men. Once on a time
Hera bare him because she was angry with father Zeus, when Kronides
bare all-glorious Athene in his head. Thereupon queenly Hera was angry
and spoke among the assembled gods: 'Yes, now I will contrive that a
son be born me to be foremost among the undying gods - and that
without casting shame on the holy bond of wedlock between you and me.
And I will not come to your bed, but will consort with the blessed
gods far off from you.'

When she had so spoken, she went apart from the gods, being very
angry. Then straightway large-eyed queenly Hera prayed, striking the
ground flatwise with her hand, and speaking thus: 'Hear now, I pray,
Gaia and wide Ouranos above, and you Titanes gods who dwell beneath
the earth about great Tartaros, and from whom are sprung both gods and
men! Harken you now to me, one and all, and grant that I may bear a
child apart from Zeus, no wit lesser than him in strength - nay, let
him be as much stronger than Zeus as all-seeing Zeus than Kronos.'
Thus she cried and lashed the earth with her strong hand. Then the
life-giving Gaia was moved: and when Hera saw it she was glad in
heart, for she thought her prayer would be fulfilled. And thereafter
she never came to the bed of wise Zeus for a full year.

But when the months and days were fulfilled and the seasons duly came
on as the earth moved round, she bare one neither like the gods nor
mortal men, fell, cruel Typhaon, to be a plague to men. Straightway
large-eyed queenly Hera took him and bringing one evil thing to
another such, gave him to the drakaina; and she received him. And this
Typhaon used to work great mischief among the famous tribes of men." -
Homeric Hymns 3.300-355

"The peacock made complaint to Juno that, while the nightingale
pleased every ear with his song, he himself no sooner opened his mouth
than he became a laughingstock to all who heard him. The Goddess, to
console him, said, "But you far excel in beauty and in size. The
splendor of the emerald shines in your neck and you unfold a tail
gorgeous with painted plumage." "But for what purpose have I," said
the bird, "this dumb beauty so long as I am surpassed in song?' "The
lot of each," replied Juno, "has been assigned by the will of the
Fates--to thee, beauty; to the eagle, strength; to the nightingale,
song; to the raven, favorable, and to the crow, unfavorable auguries.
These are all contented with the endowments allotted to them." - Aesop

"I sing of golden-throned Hera whom Rhea bare. Queen of the Immortals
is she, surpassing all in beauty: she is the sister and wife of
loud-thundering Zeus, - the glorious one whom all the blessed
throughout high Olympos reverence and honour even as Zeus who delights
in thunder." –Homeric Hymn XII To Hera

"The homage of our song is also due to Hera, the goddess of marriage,
who interests herself in every chorus and guards the approach to the
nuptial couch." - Aristophanes Thesmophoriazusae 970

"The parents of the maidens died because of the wrath of the gods,
that they were reared as orphans by Aphrodite and received gifts from
other goddesses: from Hera wisdom and beauty of form, from Artemis
high stature, from Athena schooling in the works that befit women." -
Pausanias 10.30.1

"When Iuppiter wished to lie with Aegina, the daughter of Asopus, he
feared Juno, and took the girl to the island of Delos, and there made
her pregnant. Aeacus was their son. When Juno found this out, she sent
a serpent into the water which poisoned it, and if anyone drank from
it, he paid the debt to nature. Since Aeacus, his allies lost, could
not protect himself on accou t of the scarcity of men, as he gazed at
some ants, he begged Jupiter to give him men for defense. Then
Iuppiter changed the ants into men." –Hyginus, Fabulae 52

"Zeus fell in love with Semele and slept with her, promising her
anything she wanted, and keeping it all from Hera. But Semele was
deceived by Hera into asking Zeus to come to her as he came to Hera
during their courtship. So Zeus, unable to refuse her, arrived in her
bridal chamber in a chariot with lightning flashes and thunder, and
sent a thunderbolt at her. Semele died of fright, and Zeus grabbed
from the fire her six-month aborted baby [Dionysos], which he sowed
into his thigh. Hermes took him [the baby Dionysos] to Ino and
Athamas, and persuaded them to bring him up as a girl. Incensed, Hera
inflicted madness on them, so that Athamas stalked and slew his elder
son Learkhos on the conviction that he was a deer, while Ino threw
Melikertes into a basin of boiling water, and then, carrying both the
basin and the corpse of the boy, she jumped to the bottom of the sea.
As for Zeus, he escaped Hera's anger by changing Dionysos into a baby
goat. Hermes took him to the Nymphai of Asian Nysa." – Apollodorus 3.26, 28

The month of Iunius is dedicated to Iuno, the great Queen of Heaven,
known to the Greeks as Hera. Iuno rules over all aspects of Roman
life. Besides being called Great Mother, she is also invoked as
"Optima Maxima" meaning best and greatest of the Goddesses. Iuno
watches and protects women from the time they are born until they pass
through the veil. For this reason, Roman women call their souls "iuno"
in honor of the Goddess. Every Roman woman embodied a bit of the
Goddess's spirit, her own soul a iuno, corresponding to the genius of
a man.

As the patroness of marriage, Iuno restores peace between quarreling
couples. One of her temples was used as a sanctuary for women who
needed shelter from cruel husbands. Iuno is one of the most powerful
of the Roman goddesses. She is second in power only to Iuppiter, her
husband and according to some legends, her brother. She was the
goddess of women, particularly married women. Serving as a guardian to
women she oversaw all aspects of a woman's life, childbirth, and
marriage being the primary areas of concern. Iuno Lucina was an
aspect of the goddess Iuno associated with light and childbirth. Her
name lucina probably comes from the Latin lucus (grove). Livy records
that the grove on the Esquiline Hill in which a temple was dedicated
to her in 375 BC is the origin of her name.

By the second century BC Iuno Lucina was associated with childbirth
because the name lucina was thought to have come from the Latin word
lux (light). When a child was born it was said to have been "brought
to light." Women who worshiped Iuno Lucina had to untie knots and
unbraid their hair lest lest these entanglements symbolically block
delivery.

Her children Mars, Hebe, and Vulcan, were lesser gods in their own
right. Juno was noted for her husband's affairs and her jealous
reaction to them. She persistently tormented the offspring of his
infidelities.

Valete bene!

Cato

Salve tutti,

I have a suggestion to Gaius' concern. But before I give that suggestion, English to me is the culmination of Latin and sister languages 2000 years later.

SUGGESTION
Find a Latin linguist expert(s) that volunteer, say on quarterly basis, to read each NR email, and translate selected paragraphs into Latin.

Gratia,

Ti. Marci Quadra


________________________________
From: Gaius Petronius Dexter <jfarnoud94@...>
To: Nova Roma <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 2, 2011 6:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] What do YOU want from Nova Roma?


 
C. Petronius Dexter C. Tullio Valeriano et omnibus, qui in hoc Foro spatiantur, s.p.d.,

The problem that I have with Nova Roma is to explain its activity about its generous goals publicly claimed on our website. It is obvious that when a friend of mine wants to know more things on Nova Roma, I am very embarrassed. Or I say it is an organization searching to reenact the Roman society in our times, and automatically the main question of my friends is : "Why the English language is the most common on Nova Roma?" This question, I guess, is very French because as you know French people is the one people in Europe who does not want to speak English. After 7 years of English school, a pupil cannot tell another English sentence than: "My tailor is rich".

So, for my friends it is very strange than an organization which claim to reenact Rome does not promote the Latin language. But, it is also perhaps an excuse, because if French people is not very warm to learn English, he is very cold to learn a "dead language" as the Latin, too. But as my friends to whom I spoke on Nova Roma are from the Circulus Latinus Lutetiensis, those guys are rather interested in learning the Latin than the majority of French people.

Or I say that Nova Roma is a living organisation with power struggles, ambitious people, able to push away a part of citizens and every year with less and less active citizens. It will not be an help if I say that Nova Roma is as I like, a kind corner in which it is good to meet between us and speaking about religio or Latin. If I said this sort of commercials, I will make many deceptions.

So I know what I want from Nova Roma but I know that Nova Roma is not mine and I prefer to notice its changes and evolutions than to make a marble table of "Nova Roma according to Dexter". ;o)

Optime valete.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. IV Non. Iun. P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Quirites !

I did not wish to have this difference displayed in public, and I wrote Consul Equitius on the matter privately these last days.

But, as the consul minor has wished to put the matter in our Forum and, entering a discussion that did not concern him directly, issue his position evoking the censorial point of view and specially mine, I feel obliged to inform you of the censorial position on the matter, which has already been communicated to both consuls:

1/ Any official act (a vote in an assembly is, like an announce, etc.) must take in consideration our official time (Rome one);

2/ this is a basic violation of our mos maiorum to perform an official act between sunset and sunrise (so during the night, as recorded under Rome time); so the votes cast in the Senate or any of our assemblies enter in this scope.

3/ no senatus consultum may oppose this basic rule, seen, if we were to define its nature, as a not written constitutional one, which takes its roots in the essence itself of a Roman society and State, and specially the religious side of its institutions.

4/ the censors, in charge of watching on the moral and honor of a Roman Republic are in the heart of their competencies to watch that the mos maiorum be respected, like, for ex. a certain M. Porcius... Cato did it ;

5/ like every high magistrates, the censors has a power to interpret the law, specially within their competencies ;

6/ the competing power of interpretating the Law cannot be confused with the imperium, which is the power to have decisions implemented

7/ With no imperium, but with the right to remove from the Senate "any existing senatores whose past conduct they consider seriously harmful to the dignity of the senate", the censors count on the good will, cleverness and good sense of the senators to have this rule respected, convinced that every one will understand the interest, for her/him and for the Republic, to show the example that they are supposed to show our citizens ;

8/ No *demand* has been asked by the censors

9/ The consul minor is fully allowed to interpret the Law in another way than the censorial one ; he just commits his own responsibility and the one of senators he would recommend to neglect the censorial reminder.

Thanks for your attention, Quirites, et valete omnes.


P. Memmius Albucius
censor

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato omnibus in foro SPD
>
> Just a quick note: I have already decided that the voting *period* in the Senate will be determined by Rome time, as suggested in our law:
>
> "It is recommended that the voting period begin at sunrise in Rome on the first day of the voting period and end at sunset in Rome on the last day of the voting period." - Senatus consultum de ratione senatus MMDCCLIX, VI.E
>
> Albucius is absolutely incorrect in implying that every senator individually must vote during daylight hours in Rome. They may vote at any time within the period set aside for voting.
>
> The internal procedures of the Senate are not determined by any legal authority except those put in place by the Senate itself under the authority of the Constitution, and voting most certainly is an internal procedure.
>
> Extrapolating from our official time being that of Rome's to the demand that all senators act as if they are in Rome - even if only for the purposes of voting - is not within the censor's power. He cannot interpret the law on his own, nor can he demand that his interpretation be obeyed. Censors do not carry imperium, and they do not have the authority to interpret the law.
>
> He can *ask*, with reasons for his asking being stated, just as any senator can ask for something pertaining to the way our procedures are followed. Albucius also, like any senator, can absolutely introduce legislation to the Senate to change this; but he cannot simply demand it and expect it to be done.
>
> I have already made my decision: voting periods will last from sunrise Rome time on the first day of voting to sunset Rome time on the last day of voting, uninterrupted - as recommended, not demanded, by our law.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>

Cato Memmio Albucio omnibusque in foro SPD

Hmmm.

My responses:

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "publiusalbucius" <albucius_aoe@...> wrote:

> 1/ Any official act (a vote in an assembly is, like an announce, etc.) must take in consideration our official time (Rome one);

CATO: The Senate is the *only* body which can decide, for itself, when a vote can or cannot take place; no other body can doso under our law.

>
> 2/ this is a basic violation of our mos maiorum to perform an official act between sunset and sunrise (so during the night, as recorded under Rome time); so the votes cast in the Senate or any of our assemblies enter in this scope.

CATO: That is the censor's interpretation of the law, which is his own, and private, and has absolutely no weight under our law; nor can it be the basis for any action legally taken against a magistrate, senator, or citizen.

> 3/ no senatus consultum may oppose this basic rule, seen, if we were to define its nature, as a not written constitutional one, which takes its roots in the essence itself of a Roman society and State, and specially the religious side of its institutions.

CATO: no body can defy the Constitution or our law, whetherbased on history or personal disposition.


>
> 4/ the censors, in charge of watching on the moral and honor of a Roman Republic are in the heart of their competencies to watch that the mos maiorum be respected, like, for ex. a certain M. Porcius... Cato did it ;
>
> 5/ like every high magistrates, the censors has a power to interpret the law, specially within their competencies ;

CATO: no, they do not. They do not hold imperium, which under our law is required to interpret the law; a consul has *full* imperium to do so on all subjects at every level of Nova Roman life.

>
> 6/ the competing power of interpretating the Law cannot be confused with the imperium, which is the power to have decisions implemented

CATO: the censor needs to read the lex Arminia Equitia de imperio.


> 7/ With no imperium, but with the right to remove from the Senate "any existing senatores whose past conduct they consider seriously harmful to the dignity of the senate", the censors count on the good will, cleverness and good sense of the senators to have this rule respected, convinced that every one will understand the interest, for her/him and for the Republic, to show the example that they are supposed to show our citizens ;

CATO: so this is where it comes to the real point: "do what the censor says or he'll take you out of the Senate." That, citizens, is the crux of the matter here. And that, citizens, is blackmail.

This was already tried, with the censors usurping power that does not belong to them to pronounce an illegal and irregular nota against this same consul (me).

Once again, the censors do not have the power to define or interpret the law, and if they act in a manner which threatens the civil government of the Respublica they will be responded to in a manner befitting their actions.

Valete bene,

Cato

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem III nonas Iunius; haec dies comitialis est.

"When two dawns are past, and Phoebus has risen twice,
And the crops have twice been wet by the dewfall,
On that day, they say, during the Tuscan War, Bellona's
Shrine was consecrated, she who always brings Rome success.
Appius was responsible, who, when peace was denied Pyrrhus,
Saw clearly with his mind, though deprived of sight.
A little open space looks down on the heights of the Circus
From the temple, there's a little pillar there of no mean importance:
The custom is to hurl a spear from there to declare war,
When it's been decided to take up arms against kings and nations." -
Ovid, Fasti VI

"Hard by them stood Enyo, spurred them on ceaselessly: never paused
they from the strife...Eris (strife incarnate) watched and gloated
o'er them." - Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 8.186

"Stalked through the midst deadly Enyo, her shoulders and her hands
blood-splashed, while fearful sweat streamed from her limbs. Revelling
in equal fight, she aided none, lest Thetis' or Ares' wrath be
stirred." - op. cit. 8.286

"The gifts of Ares are swords and brazen tunics to array the limbs and
helmets and spears and whatsoever things Enyo delights in." - Oppian,
Halieutica 2.24

"And Enyo, revelling in the drunkenness of unmixed blood, danced all
night throughout the city, like a hurricane, turbulent with the waves
of the surging war. And therewithal Eris lifted her head high as
heaven and stirred up the Argives; since even bloody Ares, late but
even so, came and brought to the Danaans the changeful victory in
war." - Tryphiodorus, Sack of Ilium 560

"And to Phorkys Keto bore the Graiai, with fair faces and gray from
birth, and these the gods who are immortal and men who walk on the
earth call Graiai, the gray sisters, Pemphredo robed in beauty and
Enyo robed in saffron." - Hesiod, Theogony 270

"So with Hermes and Athene as his guides Perseus sought out the
daughters of Phorkys, who were named Enyo, Pephredo, and Deino. These
daughters of Phorkys and Keto, sisters of the Gorgones, were old women
from their birth. The three of them possessed only one eye and one
tooth among them, which they took turns using. Perseus appropriated
these, and when they demanded them back, he said he would return them
after they had directed him to the nymphs .. When the daughters of
Phorkys had led Perseus to the nymphs, he returned them their tooth
and eye." - Apollodorus, The Library 2.37-39

"Amid the night-wandering shades the god of battle from on high made
to resound with the thunder of arms the Nemean fields and Arcadia from
end to end, and the height of Taenarum and Therapnae...filled excited
hearts with passion for himself. Furor (Fury) and Iraque (Wrath) make
trim his crest, and Pavor (Panic), his own squire, handles his horses'
reins. But Fama (Rumour), awake to every sound and girt with empty
tidings of tumult, flies before the chariot, sped onward by the winged
steeds' panting breath, and with loud whirring shakes out her
fluttering plumes; for the charioteer [Bellona] with blood-stained
goad urges her to speak, be it truth or falsehood, while threatening
from the lofty car the sire [Mars] with Scythian lance assails the
back and tresses of the goddess." - Statius, Thebaid 3.424

"Bellona flashed her sword o'er their heads." - Valerius Flaccus,
Argonautica 2.228

Today is held in honor of the goddess Bellona. In Greek mythology,
Enyo ("horror") was an ancient goddess known by the epithet "Waster of
Cities" and frequently depicted as being covered in blood and carrying
weapons of war. She was frequently portrayed as a companion of Ares,
the chief god of war, and has been variously said to be his mother or
sister. She was occasionally said to be one of the Graeae. Enyo was,
as you have read above, absolutely without remorse or compassion, and
revelled only in slaughter and destruction.

Enyo's Roman counterpart, Bellona, like Ares's counterpart Mars, was
much more popular. She is believed to be one of the numinous gods of
the Romans (without a particular mythology and possibly of Etruscan
origin), and is supposed by many to have been the Romans' original war
deity, predating the identification of Mars with Ares. Her name,
Bellona, is derived from the Latin word for "war" (bellum), and is
directly related to the modern English word "belligerent" (lit.,
"war-bearing"). In art, she is portrayed with a helmet, sword, spear,
and torch.

All Senate meetings relating to foreign war were conducted in the
Templum Bellonae (Temple of Bellona) on the Collis Capitolinus outside
the pomerium. This temple was built in 296 BC and was burned down in
48 BC.

Valete bene!

Cato

Consuli Equitio s.d.

Due notice taken.


Vale Consul,


Albucius csr

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> Cato Memmio Albucio omnibusque in foro SPD
>
> Hmmm.
>
> My responses:
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "publiusalbucius" <albucius_aoe@> wrote:
>
> > 1/ Any official act (a vote in an assembly is, like an announce, etc.) must take in consideration our official time (Rome one);
>
> CATO: The Senate is the *only* body which can decide, for itself, when a vote can or cannot take place; no other body can doso under our law.
>
> >
> > 2/ this is a basic violation of our mos maiorum to perform an official act between sunset and sunrise (so during the night, as recorded under Rome time); so the votes cast in the Senate or any of our assemblies enter in this scope.
>
> CATO: That is the censor's interpretation of the law, which is his own, and private, and has absolutely no weight under our law; nor can it be the basis for any action legally taken against a magistrate, senator, or citizen.
>
> > 3/ no senatus consultum may oppose this basic rule, seen, if we were to define its nature, as a not written constitutional one, which takes its roots in the essence itself of a Roman society and State, and specially the religious side of its institutions.
>
> CATO: no body can defy the Constitution or our law, whetherbased on history or personal disposition.
>
>
> >
> > 4/ the censors, in charge of watching on the moral and honor of a Roman Republic are in the heart of their competencies to watch that the mos maiorum be respected, like, for ex. a certain M. Porcius... Cato did it ;
> >
> > 5/ like every high magistrates, the censors has a power to interpret the law, specially within their competencies ;
>
> CATO: no, they do not. They do not hold imperium, which under our law is required to interpret the law; a consul has *full* imperium to do so on all subjects at every level of Nova Roman life.
>
> >
> > 6/ the competing power of interpretating the Law cannot be confused with the imperium, which is the power to have decisions implemented
>
> CATO: the censor needs to read the lex Arminia Equitia de imperio.
>
>
> > 7/ With no imperium, but with the right to remove from the Senate "any existing senatores whose past conduct they consider seriously harmful to the dignity of the senate", the censors count on the good will, cleverness and good sense of the senators to have this rule respected, convinced that every one will understand the interest, for her/him and for the Republic, to show the example that they are supposed to show our citizens ;
>
> CATO: so this is where it comes to the real point: "do what the censor says or he'll take you out of the Senate." That, citizens, is the crux of the matter here. And that, citizens, is blackmail.
>
> This was already tried, with the censors usurping power that does not belong to them to pronounce an illegal and irregular nota against this same consul (me).
>
> Once again, the censors do not have the power to define or interpret the law, and if they act in a manner which threatens the civil government of the Respublica they will be responded to in a manner befitting their actions.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>

On Jun 3, 2011, at 1:35 PM, James Mathews wrote:

> Greetings all;
>
> Just a short note to let you know that for any who have any interest
> in such things, I have uploaded some drawings into my two blogs:
>
> --"The Battle Against the Helvetii," (Roman)
>
> --"The Ruins of Aqua Claudia,"(Roman)
>
> --"Towers and Keeps." (Byzantium)
>
> http://RomanStudies.blogspot.com
>
> http://ByzantiumNovumMilitarium.blogspot.com
>
> Respectfully;
>
> Marcus Audens
>
>

Avete omnibus,

CEREALIA festival in Rome and Ariccia.
A news sent to me by the citizen, in her probatory period, C. Livia Argentilla.

Valete.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Nonas Iunias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



CEREALIA

The Cereals Festival.Cerere and the Mediterranean

Rome and Ariccia, 9-10-11-12 June 2011





From June 9th to 12th 2011 it will take place in Rome and Ariccia the first edition of CEREALIA. The Cereals Festival. Promoted and created by Rome ArcheoClub, in occasion of its 40th anniversary, the event is organized in collaboration with the non-profit organizations M.Th.I. and Iter, the Cultural Office of the Egyptian Embassy in Rome and the partners listed below. With the patronage of Provincia di Roma Assessorato alle Politiche Culturali, Roma Capitale Assessorato alle Politiche Culturali e Centro Storico, Municipio Roma I Centro Storico.

Cerealia is an event dedicated to all the cereals according to the Ancient Rome's rituals of Vestals and, in a more wide view it is extended at the Mediterranean region including all those countries which were under the Roman Empire dominion: for this the title Cerere and the Mediterranean.

The ancient rituals of Vestals (the Vestalia in fact took place on June 9) are proposed in a scenic performance and are the "Roman" element which will characterize each edition of the Festival. The relation with the Mediterranean gives to the Festival an international exposure, bringing value to the intercultural exchange, hosting each year a different country: the twined country of the 2011 edition is Egypt.

The festival will be not only a moment of historical revocation but also of intercultural exchange, giving attention to economical and social issues, in consideration of the actual international contest related to the economy of cereals.

The loop of the event is the Rome urban district of Esquilino: some activities in fact will take place in the ancient Roman monument of Mecenate's Auditorium, which ArcheoClub of Rome and Iter received in care by the Municipality of Rome.

Cerealia will open on June 9 at 6:00 pm at Mecenate's Auditorium with an official ceremony followed by an informal conversation between the TV journalist Alberto Angela and Prof. Romolo Augusto Staccioli, president of Rome ArcheoClub with the title "Conversazione sul turismo degli antichi, con particolare riferimento all'Egitto dei faraoni".

Central moment of the Festival will be the congress "Nel solco di Cerere: il mondo dei cereali tra storia, economia ed ambiente" which will take place on June 10 still at the Mecenate's Auditorium, attended by representatives of Italian and Egyptian institutions from the scientific, economic and cultural world.

The event has got a rich calendar of activities including didactical workshops for children, theatre performances, gastronomic walking tours, meetings and talking on the specific topics along with tasting of cereal products, archaeological tours, special menu in Egyptian restaurants, art exibitions, the BrunchCeralia at Terminal Gianicolo and various other activities in Ariccia realized by ArcheoClub Ariccino. Many activities will be at free entrance.

The organizers will pay special attention to the sustainability of all activities included in the Festival, to make this a low impact event. For this reason promoters invite audience and partners to follow sustainable behaviours, selecting public transportation instead of cars, paying attention to the use and final disposal of each material. We particularly thank for its collaboration the technical sponsor Minimo Impatto.



The detailed program is available on the websites:

www.mthi.it - www.archeoclubroma.it





In collaboration with: ArcheoClub d'Italia di Ariccia, Aquisgrana Caffè Letterario, Ass. Internazionale Produttori Stranieri, Associazione Italiana Celiachia, Basileia, Boccale d'Oro, Centro Ricerche Speleo-Archeologiche - Sotterranei di Roma, Chefs sans Frontières, CLE Roma (Centrum Latinitatis Europae), Fondazione Pastificio Cerere, IIITT - Indo Italian Institute for Trade and Technology, INRAN (Istituto Nazionale di Ricerca per gli Alimenti e la Nutrizione), La Rotta dei Fenici Itinerario d'Europa, Libreria Archeologica, Liceo Benedetto Croce di Roma, OROFood and B, Panella-l'arte del pane, Prospettive Mediterranee, RomaIN, Terminal Gianicolo, Università Politecnica delle Marche





Technical sponsor: Minimo Impatto





Egyptian restaurants for "Il Cibo dei Faraoni": Lotus del Mediterraneo, Oriental Grill Shawarma Station, RomAntica





Media partners: Accademia della Cultura Enogastronomica, City4City, Il Giornale del Cibo, Incontri&Eventi, NUR, Stile Naturale



Special tanks to: ARM - Azienda Romana Mercati, Fondazione Latinitas Vaticana, Giuliana Caporali, Claudio Franchi, Riccardo Campagna (autore del logo/simbolo di Cerealia); Bunke grafica & stampa, Cioli Egidio s.r.l., la Cantina Marconi, panificio Fratelli Sciattella, Optical Panzieri.



---------------------------------------------------------------------------------









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

OK I HAVE A PROBLEM!!!!!



---------- Forwarded message ----------
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Date: Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 8:43 AM
Subject: Unable to deliver your message
To: robert.woolwine@...



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Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2011 08:43:40 -0700
Subject: Fwd: Unable to deliver your message


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave

I would like to know, since Cassius has kept me informed of his attempt to
end his Leave of Absence and rejoin the Senate. What is the status of his
re-seatment in the Senate. SINCE HE IS LISTED AS A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF
DIRECTORS - and according to Maine Law?

Vale,

Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Censorio s.d.

Ah... apparently you lost again the private address of the censors! Damn...

For, for your information (but my little censorial finger tells me that you are fully aware of this point), the Senate membership does not depend on any debate, message, or decision of the Senate issued on the Senate e-list.

On Cassius P.P., both censors will answer soon the letter he recently sent us.

Now, I would like that every one be much conscious of the arguments which might be used on the applicable Law. There are two solutions :
- either we consider our Roman Law (the Constitution, the mos maiorum, our Roman laws, etc.) is applicable, specially as a part of our by-laws which prevails on the Inc. Law. In this case, the Senate is composed and reviewed by the censors ;
- or not, and the Incorporation Law applies. In that case, the Senate is a Board of Directors reviewed in the framework organized by Maine Law.

My official position as censor is that we should stick on the first one, for the second one would be incoherent and suicidal : it would lead to denounce the legality of the appointement of 4/5 of the current senators and we would lead us to open a dangerous Pandora box.

I have, last year, proposed the solution of such a possible contradiction : a by-laws reform first with a clear difference between the functions "Board" and the functions "Senate", and second a strict application of Maine Law.

It might be the major workshop of the last half of the consular term.
Ooppss... sorry, I have again issued a *suggestion*. ;-)

Vale Corneli,


Albucius csr

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave
>
> I would like to know, since Cassius has kept me informed of his attempt to
> end his Leave of Absence and rejoin the Senate. What is the status of his
> re-seatment in the Senate. SINCE HE IS LISTED AS A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF
> DIRECTORS - and according to Maine Law?
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Ave,

Censor, that question you answer has already been decided. Remember when
Modianus tried to illegally throw me out of the Senate? That was when that
was decided. Senate = Board of Directors. They are the same.

Vale,

Sulla

On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 9:28 AM, publiusalbucius <albucius_aoe@...>wrote:

>
>
> Censorio s.d.
>
> Ah... apparently you lost again the private address of the censors! Damn...
>
>
> For, for your information (but my little censorial finger tells me that you
> are fully aware of this point), the Senate membership does not depend on any
> debate, message, or decision of the Senate issued on the Senate e-list.
>
> On Cassius P.P., both censors will answer soon the letter he recently sent
> us.
>
> Now, I would like that every one be much conscious of the arguments which
> might be used on the applicable Law. There are two solutions :
> - either we consider our Roman Law (the Constitution, the mos maiorum, our
> Roman laws, etc.) is applicable, specially as a part of our by-laws which
> prevails on the Inc. Law. In this case, the Senate is composed and reviewed
> by the censors ;
> - or not, and the Incorporation Law applies. In that case, the Senate is a
> Board of Directors reviewed in the framework organized by Maine Law.
>
> My official position as censor is that we should stick on the first one,
> for the second one would be incoherent and suicidal : it would lead to
> denounce the legality of the appointement of 4/5 of the current senators and
> we would lead us to open a dangerous Pandora box.
>
> I have, last year, proposed the solution of such a possible contradiction :
> a by-laws reform first with a clear difference between the functions "Board"
> and the functions "Senate", and second a strict application of Maine Law.
>
> It might be the major workshop of the last half of the consular term.
> Ooppss... sorry, I have again issued a *suggestion*. ;-)
>
> Vale Corneli,
>
> Albucius csr
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Ave
> >
> > I would like to know, since Cassius has kept me informed of his attempt
> to
> > end his Leave of Absence and rejoin the Senate. What is the status of his
> > re-seatment in the Senate. SINCE HE IS LISTED AS A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF
> > DIRECTORS - and according to Maine Law?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

No, I would not keep this a private matter. This is why I was going to post
it to the SENATE...but hey for some reason....no one can post in the
Senate. So, out in the ML it is for everyone to see.

Vale,

Sulla

On Sat, Jun 4, 2011 at 9:28 AM, publiusalbucius <albucius_aoe@...>wrote:

>
>
> Censorio s.d.
>
> Ah... apparently you lost again the private address of the censors! Damn...
>
>
> For, for your information (but my little censorial finger tells me that you
> are fully aware of this point), the Senate membership does not depend on any
> debate, message, or decision of the Senate issued on the Senate e-list.
>
> On Cassius P.P., both censors will answer soon the letter he recently sent
> us.
>
> Now, I would like that every one be much conscious of the arguments which
> might be used on the applicable Law. There are two solutions :
> - either we consider our Roman Law (the Constitution, the mos maiorum, our
> Roman laws, etc.) is applicable, specially as a part of our by-laws which
> prevails on the Inc. Law. In this case, the Senate is composed and reviewed
> by the censors ;
> - or not, and the Incorporation Law applies. In that case, the Senate is a
> Board of Directors reviewed in the framework organized by Maine Law.
>
> My official position as censor is that we should stick on the first one,
> for the second one would be incoherent and suicidal : it would lead to
> denounce the legality of the appointement of 4/5 of the current senators and
> we would lead us to open a dangerous Pandora box.
>
> I have, last year, proposed the solution of such a possible contradiction :
> a by-laws reform first with a clear difference between the functions "Board"
> and the functions "Senate", and second a strict application of Maine Law.
>
> It might be the major workshop of the last half of the consular term.
> Ooppss... sorry, I have again issued a *suggestion*. ;-)
>
> Vale Corneli,
>
> Albucius csr
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Ave
> >
> > I would like to know, since Cassius has kept me informed of his attempt
> to
> > end his Leave of Absence and rejoin the Senate. What is the status of his
> > re-seatment in the Senate. SINCE HE IS LISTED AS A MEMBER OF THE BOARD OF
> > DIRECTORS - and according to Maine Law?
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est pridie Nonas Iunius; haec dies comitialis est.

"The rest of the Circus is protected by Hercules the Guardian,
The god holds the office due to the Sibylline oracle.
The day before the Nones is when he takes up office:
If you ask about the inscription, Sulla approved the work." - Ovid,
Fasti VI

Today is held in honor of Hercules (known to the Greeks as Herakles).
There are many wonderful stories about Hercules which have nothing to
do with the famous Twelve Labors, among them:

Hesione was the daughter of King Laomedon of Troy. Hercules met
Hesione after his year of enslavement to Omphale, when he set out for
Troy. Hercules found Troy in a state of crisis, as King Laomedon had
cheated Poseidon and Apollo by failing to pay them for building the
walls. For punishment Poseidon had sent a large sea monster, who would
only be appeased by devouring the princess, Hesione. Hercules sought
to kill the monster and naturally expected a reward, such as
Laomedon's amazing horses. Hercules bravely killed the beast by
allowing himself to be swallowed by the monster, whom he then killed
from the inside. But once a cheat always a cheat: Laomedon skimped on
paying Hercules too. So Hercules raised an army, including such great
men as Telamon, father of Ajax. When his army captured the city,
Hercules gave Hesione in marriage to Telamon (they soon gave birth to
another hero, Teucer). Hesione was given the opportunity to save any
one of her fellow Trojan prisoners: she chose her brother Podarces,
later known as Priam.

After completing his twelve labors, Hercules hit the road, once again.
Somehow or another, Hercules caught wind that Eurytus, the prince of
Oechalia, was offering his beautiful daughter, Iole, as a bride prize
to any man who could best him and his sons in an archery contest. Upon
hearing this, Hercules traveled to Oechalia and competed against
Eurytus and his sons. Legend has it that Eurytus was the man who first
schooled Hercules in the use of the bow. His was a challenge that
pitted student against teacher. It should come as no surprise that
Hercules defeated his fellow contestants with ease. When it came
time, however, for Eurytus to hand over Iole to Hercules, as his
bride, Eurytus refused. In this decision he was supported by all of
his sons except Iphytus. One may wonder why a prince would deny the
strongest man in the world his daughter in marriage. For Eurytus, the
reasoning was simple: he would not allow his beloved daughter to marry
(and eventually have children with) a man who had a history of
murdering his sons in a fit of rage (remember that whole Megara
fiasco?), for fear that the same fate would befall his own
grandchildren. Crestfallen and dismayed, Hercules left Oechalia.
Shortly after Hercules' departure, some mares (or cattle, depending on
the storyteller) were stolen by Autolycus from a local man. Eurytus
instantly thought that Hercules was the culprit. Iphytus, however,
refused to believe that Hercules was the thief and set out to pay him
a visit at Tiryns (another version suggests Iphytus went to Tiryns to
look for the cattle himself). Hercules received Iphytus in good cheer
and the two men passed the time entertaining each other. Unfortunately
for Iphytus, however, during the visit something went awry, and
Hercules, in another fit of madness, hurled Iphytus to his death from
the top of the walls of Tiryns. Following the murder of Iphytus,
Hercules contracted a terrible disease, as a result of his violent
outburst. Hercules then journeyed to the oracle at Delphi, in hopes
that the priestess there would advise him on how to cure himself. But
Hercules was to be disappointed. When he questioned the Pythian
priestess, she was unable to answer him in oracles. Hercules, outraged
at priestesses unwillingness to help, began tearing the temple apart.
When Hercules came upon the Delphic tripod, he started to make off
with it, thinking that he would establish an oracle of his own.
Apollo, however, was not about to let Hercules carry off the prized
tripod from his sacred site. He began to wrestle with Hercules over
its possession; Apollo was supported by his sister, Artemis, while
Hercules was supported by his patron, Athena. In the midst of their
tug-of-war contest, Zeus dropped in and tried to break up the feuding
brothers (Apollo and Hercules are, after all, half-brothers by Zeus).
And as parents are often forced to do, Zeus decided that it would be
best to separate the brothers, hurling one of his mighty thunderbolts
between them. After the two siblings were pried apart, Hercules
finally received an oracle, instructing him to be sold into slavery
for a year, and to pay Eurytus in compensation for the loss of his
son. The tripod remained at Delphi and Hermes sold Hercules to
Omphale, Queen of Lydia, for whom he performed women's work for his
year of servitude.

Valete bene!

Cato

Salvete!

I haven't looked at this site yet, so I don't know if there is anything of
direct interest to us, but ...I decided that it is worth posting, even if
not. After all, 4,000 titles should have *something* of interest to
someone. I've tried to trim as best as I can, but if there is extraneous
material, please forgive.

Valete!



C. Maria Caeca





·
<http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=06022011>
http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=06022011

Date: June 2, 2011

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

The National Academies Press Makes All PDF Books Free to Download;
More Than 4,000 Titles Now Available Free to All Readers

WASHINGTON -- As of today all PDF versions of books published by the
National Academies Press will be downloadable to anyone free of charge.
This includes a current catalog of more than 4,000 books plus future reports
produced by the Press. The mission of the National Academies Press (NAP) --
publisher for the National Academy of Sciences, National Academy of
Engineering, Institute of Medicine, and National Research Council -- is to
disseminate the institutions' content as widely as possible while
maintaining financial sustainability. To that end, NAP began offering free
content online in 1994. Before today's announcement, all PDFs were free to
download in developing countries, and 65 percent of them were available for
free to any user.

"Our business model has evolved so that it is now financially viable to put
this content out to the entire world for free," said Barbara Kline Pope,
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>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro C. Tullio Valeriano quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> C. Petronius Dexter C. Tullio Valeriano et omnibus, qui in hoc Foro
> spatiantur, s.p.d.,
>
> The problem that I have with Nova Roma is to explain its activity about its
> generous goals publicly claimed on our website. It is obvious that when a
> friend of mine wants to know more things on Nova Roma, I am very embarrassed.
> Or I say it is an organization searching to reenact the Roman society in our
> times, and automatically the main question of my friends is : "Why the English
> language is the most common on Nova Roma?" This question, I guess, is very
> French because as you know French people is the one people in Europe who does
> not want to speak English. After 7 years of English school, a pupil cannot
> tell another English sentence than: "My tailor is rich".
>
> ATS: Not even Hello, how are you? It may not be the tailor who is rich,
> but the unscrupulous money-mad businessman...
>
> So, for my friends it is very strange than an organization which claim to
> reenact Rome does not promote the Latin language.
>
> ATS: Of course it is strange, and more than strange. Unfortunately we do
> have a number of citizens who scream and holler whenever anyone uses so much
> as a common Latin expression in an English text, and raise the roof when an
> entire text is in Latin. That has its intended effect of preventing
> discussion in Latin, though of course the correct response to that sort of
> thing is to ignore the protests and proceed in Latin when desired. No one HAS
> to read all messages on any mailing list. Except in rare cases when age and /
> or illness have made it impossible to learn a foreign language, there is no
> excuse for failing to learn Latin or any other tongue which is related to
> one¹s own language. Latin is a cousin of English; they are on different
> branches of the Indo-European language family, but overall work pretty much
> the same. As is well known, too, about 60% of the English vocabulary is
> derived from Latin, either directly or via a Romance language, typically
> Norman or other French. As in the Marines, the answer should be No excuse,
> sir!
>
>
> But, it is also perhaps an excuse, because if French people is not very warm
> to learn English, he is very cold to learn a "dead language" as the Latin,
> too.
>
> ATS: Sadly, this mistaken notion that Latin is a dead language has taken
> hold in far too many places. Reality, however, is very different: there are
> many people who write and speak Latin today, people who communicate in Latin
> with those who share no other common language. I wish I could show you
> (plural) the video we have on the Sermo sites of a meeting in Finland where
> people from all over Europe and even parts of the US were chatting away in
> Latin with those who did not know the other person¹s native tongue (and no,
> Petroni, they did not have scripts except in the case of lectures). There are
> people from Finland, Hungary, Italy, Germany, France, Spain, Bulgaria, Russia
> and the U.S., to name a few of those nations represented. Every other year,
> there is a Mediterranean Sea voyage during which only Latin is spoken. There
> is an all-Latin mailing list, the Grex Latiné Loquentium. There are a good
> many Circuli Latini, groups which gather to speak Latin, among which is yours
> in Paris and that of Avitus in London. Ancient Egyptian may be dead, for it
> is not used for communication by anyone, but Latin is NOT dead.
>
> As I have noted earlier, we have Latin classes to remedy this defect. We
> teach Latin by two different methods, traditional and assimilation, and offer
> both introductory and intermediate courses by both methods. We also offer
> some advanced courses more or less by assimilation and immersion. Anyone who
> is interested in any of our Latin classes should contact me for further
> information. The traditional Grammatica Latina classes have been open for
> registration for some time now, and the combined beginning and intermediate
> assimilation method Sermo Latinus I&II course will open a few hours from now.
> The intermediate Sermo Latinus II course is also open, and I expect that the
> Sermo Latinus I course will soon be open, though the teacher has not prepared
> the site except for removing most of the students. All incoming students must
> possess the relevant texts before being allowed to register, but otherwise all
> is in readiness for the courses listed above as being open. Obviously those
> wishing to enter the intermediate courses must have completed the introductory
> ones, but in Grammatica, we allow equivalent instruction at the college level
> as well as prior completion of Grammatica I. For Grammatica, the text is
> Wheelock¹s Latin, by Frederic Wheelock, sixth edition revised by LaFleur; for
> Sermo, the text is Le Latin Sans Peine, by Clement Desessard; there is an
> Italian translation available as well, and the entire text has been translated
> into English and Spanish for our students only; these translations are not
> otherwise available.
>
> CPD: But as my friends to whom I spoke on Nova Roma are from the Circulus
> Latinus Lutetiensis, those guys are rather interested in learning the Latin
> than the majority of French people.
>
> ATS: Of course, but they are hardly alone.
>
> Or I say that Nova Roma is a living organisation with power struggles,
> ambitious people, able to push away a part of citizens and every year with
> less and less active citizens.
>
> ATS: Some of them are very talented at that, being overgrown playground
> bullies.
>
> It will not be an help if I say that Nova Roma is as I like, a kind corner in
> which it is good to meet between us and speaking about religio or Latin. If I
> said this sort of commercials, I will make many deceptions.
>
> So I know what I want from Nova Roma but I know that Nova Roma is not mine and
> I prefer to notice its changes and evolutions than to make a marble table of
> "Nova Roma according to Dexter". ;o)
>
> Optime valete.
>
> --
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a.d. IV Non. Iun. P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
> Optimé vale(te).
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Tulliae Scholasticae s.p.d.,

> > ATS: Not even Hello, how are you? It may not be the tailor who is rich, but the unscrupulous money-mad businessman...

In fact, "My railor is rich" is the first sentence in the English easy method ASSIMIL. This sentence is known by any French people as THE English sentence. Here an English lesson in the 70's by the "Gendarme de St Tropez":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0aGYmkivN0E

This phrase, "my tailor is rich" became a sort of English touch proverb, you may find it even in "Astérix in Britain" in the French version it is word by word translated in "Mon tailleur est riche" and any French reader smiles thinking to the English motto "My tailor is rich" but for English people this sentence means nothing and the English translators of Astérix wrote "My tailor makes a good thing out of it." They did not know or rather they knew that their English readers could not smile with a sentence like "My tailor is rich"...

For us, THE English phrase is: "My tailor is rich." Even if, of course, this phrase is not in the English school lessons.

>>>ATS: Sadly, this mistaken notion that Latin is a dead language has taken hold in far too many places.<<<

CPD: Yes, but it is perhaps an hope of the contrary. Latin is more and more felt as a international language with a great litterature and we just have found a German "Visuelles Wörterbuch Latein Deutsch". In this dictionary common modern life words are illustrated with photographs and you have the German words with the Neo-Latin words. In which "pizza" is translated by "libum fartum Neapolitanum". :o) Tie is translated by "focale Croatum". And so one...

All that is not unquestionable but it is an interesting step.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Nonis Iuniis P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

Salvete Romans,

I need one of the people in charge of the Wiki to contact me, asap, to discuss a small but important project.

Valete

Ti. Galerius Paulinus

PS I have had my email account restored!!!!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est Nonis Iuniis; hic dies nefastus est.

"I asked whether I should assign the Nones to Sancus,
Or Fidius, or you Father Semo: Sancus answered me:
'Whichever you assign it to, the honour's mine:
I bear all three names: so Cures willed it.'
The Sabines of old granted him a shrine accordingly,
And established it on the Quirinal Hill." - Ovid, Fasti VI


"The same thing the more ancient name of Jupiter shows even better,
for of old He was called Diovis and Diespater; that is, dies pater
(Day Father), from whence sub divo (under the sky) and Dius Fidius
(God of Good Faith) is derived. Thus from this reason the roof of His
temple is pierced with a hole, that in this way the divum, which is
the caelum (sky), may be seen. Some say that it is improper to take an
oath by His name when you are under a roof. Aelius (Stilo) said that
Dius Fidius was a son of Diovis, just as the Greeks call Castor
Dioskoron (Son of Zeus), and he thought that He was Sancus in the
Sabine tongue and Hercules in Greek." - Varro, de Lingua Latina V.66

Semo Sancus was served by the company of priests called the Bidental.
He was likely a pre-Roman sky god. His name as Dius Fidius was used as
an oath, the oath being taken in the unroofed compluvium of a house,
under the open sky, and the god's temple had a hole in the roof open
to the sky also. Fidius is therefore connected to Jupiter. As the god
of oaths, he protected the sanctity of the marriage tie, the rights of
hospitality, international treaties and alliances.

This Sabine cult is said to have been introduced into Rome by Titus
Tatius, but the construction of the temple is generally ascribed to
the last Tarquin, although it was dedicated by Sp. Postumius many
years later, 5th June, 466 BC It contained a bronze statue of
Tanaquil, her distaff and spindle, and a wooden shield covered with
ox-hide, which was a memorial of the league between Rome and Gabii,
and, after the destruction of Privernum in 329 BC, bronze wheels made
of the proceeds of the confiscated property of Vitruvius.

Valete bene!

Cato

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VIII Idus Iunius; hic dies nefastus est.

"I have a daughter (may she outlive me, I pray)
In whom I'll always be happy, while she's safe.
When I wished to give her away to my son-in-law,
I asked which times were fit for weddings, which were not:
Then it was pointed out to me that after the Ides of June
Was a good time for brides, and for bridegrooms,
While the start of the month was unsuitable for marriage:
For the holy wife of the Flamen Dialis told me:
`Till the calm Tiber carries the sweepings from the shrine
Of Ilian Vesta, on its yellow waves to the sea,
I'm not allowed to comb my hair with a toothed comb,
Nor to cut my nails with anything made of iron,
Nor to touch my husband, though he's Jove's priest,
And though he was given to me by law for life.
Don't be in a hurry. Your daughter will be better wed,
When Vesta's fire gleams on purified earth.'" - Ovid, Fasti VI

"Why did the priest of Jupiter (Flamen Dialis) resign his office if
his wife died, as Ateius has recorded?

Is it because the man who has taken a wife and then lost her is more
unfortunate than one who has never taken a wife? For the house of the
married man is complete, but the house of him who has married and
later lost his wife is not only incomplete, but also crippled.
Or is it because the wife assists her husband in the rites, so that
many of them cannot be performed without the wife's presence, and for
a man who has lost his wife to marry again immediately is neither
possible perhaps nor otherwise seemly? Wherefore it was formerly
illegal for the flamen to divorce his wife; and it is still, as it
seems, illegal, but in my day Domitian once permitted it on petition.
The priests were present at that ceremony of divorce and performed
many horrible, strange, and gloomy rites. One might be less surprised
at this resignation of the flamen if one should adduce also the fact
that when one of the censors died, the other was obliged to resign his
office; but when the censor Livius Drusus died, his colleague Aemilius
Scaurus was unwilling to give up his office until certain tribunes
ordered him to be led away to prison." - Plutarch, "The Roman
Questions" 50

A great many ceremonies are imposed upon the Flamen Dialis, and also
many restraints, about which we read in the books "On The Public
Priesthoods" and also in Book I of Fabius Pictor's work. Among them
are the following: it is forbidden ("religio est") the Flamen Dialis
to ride a horse; it is likewise forbidden him to view the "classes
arrayed" outside the pomerium, i.e., armed and in battle order; hence
only rarely is the Flamen Dialis made a consul, since the conduct of
wars is entrusted to the consuls; it is likewise unlawful ("fas
numquam est") for him ever to take an oath by Iuppiter; it is likewise
unlawful for him to wear a ring, unless it is cut through and empty
(i.e., without a jewel). It is also unlawful to carry out fire from
the flaminia, i.e., the Flamen Dialis' dwelling, except for a sacral
purpose; if a prisoner in chains enters the house he must be released
and the chains must be carried up through the impluvium (the opening
in the roof above the atrium or living room) onto the roof tiles and
dropped down from there into the street. He must have no knot in his
head gear or in his girdle or in any other part of his attire. If
anyone is being led away to be flogged and falls at his feet as a
suppliant, it is unlawful ("piaculum est") to flog him that day. The
hair of the Flamen Dialis is not to be cut except by a freeman. It is
customary ("mos est") for the Flamen neither to touch nor even to name
a female goat, or eat or touch raw meat, ivy, or beans.

He must not walk under a trellis for vines. The feet of the bed on
which he lies must have a thin coating of clay, and he must not be
away from this bed for three successive nights, nor is it lawful for
anyone else to sleep in this bed. At the foot of his bed there must be
a box containing a little pile of sacrificial cakes. The nail
trimmings and hair of the Dialis must be buried in the ground beneath
a healthy tree. Every day is a holy day for the Dialis. He must not go
outdoors ("sub divo") without a head-covering.

It is not lawful for him to touch bread made of fermented meal. His
underwear he does not take off except in covered places, lest he
appear nude under the open sky, which is the same as under the eye of
Iuppiter. No one else outranks him in the seating at a banquet except
the Rex sacrificulus. If he loses his wife, he must resign his office.
His marriage cannot be dissolved ("dirimi ius non est") except by
death. He never enters a burying ground, he never touches a corpse. He
is, however, permitted to attend a funeral.

Almost the same ceremonial rules belong to the Flaminica Dialis. They
say that she observes certain other and different ones, for example,
that she wears a dyed gown, and that she has a twig from a fruitful
tree tucked in her veil, and that it is forbidden [religiosum est] for
her to ascend more than three rungs of a ladder and even that when she
goes to the Argei, when twenty-four puppets were thrown into the
Tiber, she must neither comb her head nor arrange her hair.

Valete bene!

Cato

EX OFFICIO P. ULLERIO VENATORI C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIBUS

Under the authority granted to the consuls of Nova Roma by the Senate of Nova Roma in the senatus consultum ultimum regarding individuals holding membership/citizenship in multiple organizations and their relationship to our Respublica while members of those organizations, specifically that:

"No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma shall be allowed to use their her/his membership either to create, develop or promote such competing organizations, or to act negatively towards Nova Roma, its citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization and actions..." (senatus consultum ultimam passed on a.d. IV Kal. Mar. 2764 AUC, Section 1)

and that towards any member who does so

"Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate any one of the situations evoked in the article 1, including the rights to refuse the admission of an applicant member, to remove a member of her/his membership, to remove or deprive him/her, for a given time, of all or a part of her/his rights of member and/or of her/his rights, powers, privileges and honors which (s)he may hold inside Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma, including Article II.B of the Constitution of Nova Roma."

and in view of the statements made by Marcus Lucretius Agricola on the "Cultus Deorum" List, and in view of the fact that he has ignored repeated requests to resign his official position(s) in an entity formed specifically to renounce our Respublica,

we, the consuls of Nova Roma, hereby strip Marcus Lucretius Agricola of his citizenship in Nova Roma, his priesthoods and any titles honors or dignities he may hold in our Republic.

We instruct the owners of any official Lists, religious or civil, of which he may currently be a subscriber, to strike him from those Lists and ban him in perpetuity from them.

This edict is effective immediately upon publication.

Publius Ullerius Venator
Gaius Equitius Cato
Consuls

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem VII Idus Iunius; hic dies nefastus est.

"On the third dawn after the Nones, it's said that Phoebe
Chases away Arcturus, and the Bear's free of fear of her ward.
Then I recall, too, I've seen games, named for you
Smooth-flowing Tiber, held on the turf in the Field of Mars.
The day's a festival for those who tug at dripping lines,
And hide their bronze hooks under little strands of bait." - Ovid,
Fasti VI

"But Rhea was subject in love to Kronos and bare splendid children,
Hestia, Demeter, and gold-shod Hera and strong Haides ... and the
loud-crashing Earth-Shaker [Poseidon], and wise Zeus ... These great
Kronos swallowed as each came forth from the womb to his mother's
knees ... Therefore he kept no blind outlook, but watched and
swallowed down his children ... As the years rolled on, great Kronos
the wily was beguiled by the deep suggestions of Gaia (Earth), and
brought up again his offspring, vanquished by the arts and might of
his own son, and he vomited up first the stone which he had swallowed
last." - Hesiod, Theogony 453

"To Hestia, Fumigation from Aromatics. Daughter of Kronos, venerable
dame, who dwellest amidst great fire's eternal flame; in sacred rites
these ministers are thine, mystics much blessed, holy and divine. In
thee the Gods have fixed their dwelling place, strong, stable basis of
the mortal race. Eternal, much formed, ever florid queen, laughing and
blessed, and of lovely mien; accept these rites, accord each just
desire, and gentle health and needful good inspire." - Orphic Hymn 84
to Hestia

"Zeus the Father gave her a high honour instead of marriage, and she
has her place in the midst of the house and has the richest portion.
In all the temples of the gods she has a share of honour, and among
all mortal men she is chief of the goddesses." - Homeric Hymn V to
Aphrodite 18

"Zeus, the mighty lord, holding the reins of a winged chariot, leads
the way in heaven, ordering all and taking care of all; and there
follows him the array of gods and demigods, marshalled in eleven
bands; Hestia alone abides at home in the house of heaven." - Plato,
Phaedrus 246

"The goddess whom they call Hestia. Her power extends over altars and
hearths, and therefore all prayers and all sacrifices end with this
goddess, because she is the guardian of the innermost things." -
Cicero, De Natura Deorum 2.27

Today is held in honor of Vesta, the Roman goddess of the hearth and
home, known to the Greeks as Hestia. On this day the Romans opened
the penus vestae, the room of sacred objects, including the palladium
and the images of the state penates. The doors would be opened to the
matrons of the city would walk barefoot through the streets carrying
offerings of food.

Valete bene!

Cato

L. Iulia Aquila Pontifex Consulibus Quiritibusque S.P.D.


The "Cultus Deorum" list is an independent list of cultores and has no political affiliation whatsoever. It was created before the strife that has essentially become a schism. As a moderator I have not allowed any political conversation against Nova Roma, or any other group for that matter, to continue - which has been well met in the rare instance. This group of cultores strictly discusses the Religio Romana and subjects pertaining to it. In fact there is much to learn there for any cultore.
Without fighting, divisive arguments and fear of being berated.
To my knowledge Marcus Lucretius Agricola has not said anything against Nova Roma in the independent "Cultus Deorum" list.
I may have missed it if he did as I have been too busy to frequent any list and so I am asking for specifics.

As for the "entity" he is affiliated with please specify in what capacity is he affiliated.
The SCU has stripped a citizen of several years of hard earned titles and accomplishments.
A citizen who in the past has done much for NR.
We, the current citizens of Nova Roma, deserve specifics regarding the Scholar, Augur and Senator M. Lucretius Agricola and why we are taking another step towards the lack of diversity that is so uncharacteristic of ancient Rome.

I am not contesting the SCU because that would be fruitless, I am however requesting specifics (as stated above) because that is the Roman way.
Full disclosure not a bunch of vague statements.

Losing an experienced cultore is a serious issue in Nova Roma because we have become so few and of that even fewer are knowledgeable enough to be examples to others.

It is a black day whenever Nova Roma loses a cultore. I am saddened by this measure. But I realize that and a couple of dollars will buy me a cup of coffee.
However accountability applies to all citizens, from the newest to the highest magistrates. I await your answer esteemed Consuls.

Valete optime pacem deorum,

L. Julia Aquila
Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis
Pontifex Novæ Romæ
Praefectus Regio Tennessee: Provincia A.Æ
Procurator: Provincia A.Æ
Sacerdos Prima A.Æ
VII Id. Iun. ‡ P. Ullerio C. Equitio coss.

http://aedesvenusgenetrix.blogspot.com/
http://www.thelastenchantment.com/
Securum in tenebris me facit esse Venus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> EX OFFICIO P. ULLERIO VENATORI C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIBUS
>
> Under the authority granted to the consuls of Nova Roma by the Senate of Nova Roma in the senatus consultum ultimum regarding individuals holding membership/citizenship in multiple organizations and their relationship to our Respublica while members of those organizations, specifically that:
>
> "No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma shall be allowed to use their her/his membership either to create, develop or promote such competing organizations, or to act negatively towards Nova Roma, its citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization and actions..." (senatus consultum ultimam passed on a.d. IV Kal. Mar. 2764 AUC, Section 1)
>
> and that towards any member who does so
>
> "Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate any one of the situations evoked in the article 1, including the rights to refuse the admission of an applicant member, to remove a member of her/his membership, to remove or deprive him/her, for a given time, of all or a part of her/his rights of member and/or of her/his rights, powers, privileges and honors which (s)he may hold inside Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma, including Article II.B of the Constitution of Nova Roma."
>
> and in view of the statements made by Marcus Lucretius Agricola on the "Cultus Deorum" List, and in view of the fact that he has ignored repeated requests to resign his official position(s) in an entity formed specifically to renounce our Respublica,
>
> we, the consuls of Nova Roma, hereby strip Marcus Lucretius Agricola of his citizenship in Nova Roma, his priesthoods and any titles honors or dignities he may hold in our Republic.
>
> We instruct the owners of any official Lists, religious or civil, of which he may currently be a subscriber, to strike him from those Lists and ban him in perpetuity from them.
>
> This edict is effective immediately upon publication.
>
> Publius Ullerius Venator
> Gaius Equitius Cato
> Consuls
>

C. Petronius Dexter omnibus, qui in Foro spatiantur, salutem dicit:

According to the Constitution:

"The edicts of the dictator are absolute within his sphere of influence, and subject to neither intercessio or provocatio."

In my opinion, a law voted by the comitia is not an intercessio nor a provocatio. So, it is allowed to modify or repeal any dictatorial edict by a law as it was allowed in Ancient Rome. Many edicts of the dictator Sulla in the Ancient Rome were modified or repealed by the comitia. For example, the composition of the Justice courts and other things. To modify, to reenact, to update decreta pontificum is the duty of the CP as well, which modification shall not be an intercessio nor a provocatio.

I beg this question because we have among the decreta pontificum one of them which was enacted by a dictatorial decree, on 30 July 2752/1999.

Here the link of this edictum:
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Decretum_pro_qui_in_collegium_pontificum_et_collegium_augurum_%28Nova_Roma%29

If you read it, you can see that the dictator statued that the pontifex maximus of Nova Roma is elected by the Collegium Pontificum. Which is totally contrary to the mos maiorum and also to the Lex Domitia, 3rd century BC, according to which the pontifex maximus was elected by 17 tribes chosen by sort among the 35 tribes of the comitia.

I think very important that the pontifex maximus be elected by the comitia rather than by the collegium pontificum. Why? The cooptation by a few number of "experts" or "a sort of elite" looks like the election of the Christian pope, who also taken the title of pontifex maximus, and is not the way used by the Romans.

Every thing has its pro and its contra. I know.
Perhaps the election of the pontifex maximus by the comitia was never made before in Nova Roma, but it was the choice of the ancient Romans. And this choice was in force from the 3rd century BC till the imperial period, in which every emperor after Augustus was automatically pontifex maximus.

But, we are living in a Republic, and perhaps the people, at least 17 tribes chosen by sort, id est 17 tribes chosen by the gods, may want to elect the pontifex maximus of Nova Roma among its pontiffs, rather to leave this right (Lex Domitia) to the collegium pontificum.

It is just to know any advices of yours, my fellow citizens.

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. VII Idus Iunias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

Hey is not just a religio thingy...he is a SENATOR...and thusly that is why
he is being 86ed.

You don't keep Benedict Arnold as a General in the Continental Army after he
has been discovered trying to sell West Point to the British.

If he was just a regular citizen, like say...LIVIA...the Edict would not
have been needed.

This is NOT a black day for NR and any attempt to spin it that way is false.

Vale,

Sulla

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 9:00 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

>
>
> L. Iulia Aquila Pontifex Consulibus Quiritibusque S.P.D.
>
> The "Cultus Deorum" list is an independent list of cultores and has no
> political affiliation whatsoever. It was created before the strife that has
> essentially become a schism. As a moderator I have not allowed any political
> conversation against Nova Roma, or any other group for that matter, to
> continue - which has been well met in the rare instance. This group of
> cultores strictly discusses the Religio Romana and subjects pertaining to
> it. In fact there is much to learn there for any cultore.
> Without fighting, divisive arguments and fear of being berated.
> To my knowledge Marcus Lucretius Agricola has not said anything against
> Nova Roma in the independent "Cultus Deorum" list.
> I may have missed it if he did as I have been too busy to frequent any list
> and so I am asking for specifics.
>
> As for the "entity" he is affiliated with please specify in what capacity
> is he affiliated.
> The SCU has stripped a citizen of several years of hard earned titles and
> accomplishments.
> A citizen who in the past has done much for NR.
> We, the current citizens of Nova Roma, deserve specifics regarding the
> Scholar, Augur and Senator M. Lucretius Agricola and why we are taking
> another step towards the lack of diversity that is so uncharacteristic of
> ancient Rome.
>
> I am not contesting the SCU because that would be fruitless, I am however
> requesting specifics (as stated above) because that is the Roman way.
> Full disclosure not a bunch of vague statements.
>
> Losing an experienced cultore is a serious issue in Nova Roma because we
> have become so few and of that even fewer are knowledgeable enough to be
> examples to others.
>
> It is a black day whenever Nova Roma loses a cultore. I am saddened by this
> measure. But I realize that and a couple of dollars will buy me a cup of
> coffee.
> However accountability applies to all citizens, from the newest to the
> highest magistrates. I await your answer esteemed Consuls.
>
> Valete optime pacem deorum,
>
> L. Julia Aquila
> Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis
> Pontifex Novæ Romæ
> Praefectus Regio Tennessee: Provincia A.Æ
> Procurator: Provincia A.Æ
> Sacerdos Prima A.Æ
> VII Id. Iun. ‡ P. Ullerio C. Equitio coss.
>
> http://aedesvenusgenetrix.blogspot.com/
> http://www.thelastenchantment.com/
> Securum in tenebris me facit esse Venus
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
> >
> > EX OFFICIO P. ULLERIO VENATORI C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIBUS
> >
> > Under the authority granted to the consuls of Nova Roma by the Senate of
> Nova Roma in the senatus consultum ultimum regarding individuals holding
> membership/citizenship in multiple organizations and their relationship to
> our Respublica while members of those organizations, specifically that:
> >
> > "No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma shall be
> allowed to use their her/his membership either to create, develop or promote
> such competing organizations, or to act negatively towards Nova Roma, its
> citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization and actions..."
> (senatus consultum ultimam passed on a.d. IV Kal. Mar. 2764 AUC, Section 1)
> >
> > and that towards any member who does so
> >
> > "Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take every measure to prevent, avoid or
> eliminate any one of the situations evoked in the article 1, including the
> rights to refuse the admission of an applicant member, to remove a member of
> her/his membership, to remove or deprive him/her, for a given time, of all
> or a part of her/his rights of member and/or of her/his rights, powers,
> privileges and honors which (s)he may hold inside Nova Roma Inc. or the
> Republic of Nova Roma, including Article II.B of the Constitution of Nova
> Roma."
> >
> > and in view of the statements made by Marcus Lucretius Agricola on the
> "Cultus Deorum" List, and in view of the fact that he has ignored repeated
> requests to resign his official position(s) in an entity formed specifically
> to renounce our Respublica,
> >
> > we, the consuls of Nova Roma, hereby strip Marcus Lucretius Agricola of
> his citizenship in Nova Roma, his priesthoods and any titles honors or
> dignities he may hold in our Republic.
> >
> > We instruct the owners of any official Lists, religious or civil, of
> which he may currently be a subscriber, to strike him from those Lists and
> ban him in perpetuity from them.
> >
> > This edict is effective immediately upon publication.
> >
> > Publius Ullerius Venator
> > Gaius Equitius Cato
> > Consuls
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

L. Iulia Aquila Pontifex Quiritibusque S.P.D.

> Hey is not just a religio thingy

This statement, fellow citizens, demonstrates a lack of utter disregard and disrespect for the Religio.

Sulla is not a cultore and so it obviously means very little to him to lose even one cultore.

Unless Sulla can provide the specifics I requested I will no longer reply to his divisive exaggerated ramblings.

L. Julia Aquila
Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis
Pontifex Novæ Romæ
Praefectus Regio Tennessee: Provincia A.Æ
Procurator: Provincia A.Æ
Sacerdos Prima A.Æ
Ordo Equester
VII Id. Iun. ‡ P. Ullerio C. Equitio coss.

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Hey is not just a religio thingy...he is a SENATOR...and thusly that is why
> he is being 86ed.
>
> You don't keep Benedict Arnold as a General in the Continental Army after he
> has been discovered trying to sell West Point to the British.
>
> If he was just a regular citizen, like say...LIVIA...the Edict would not
> have been needed.
>
> This is NOT a black day for NR and any attempt to spin it that way is false.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 9:00 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > L. Iulia Aquila Pontifex Consulibus Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> >
> > The "Cultus Deorum" list is an independent list of cultores and has no
> > political affiliation whatsoever. It was created before the strife that has
> > essentially become a schism. As a moderator I have not allowed any political
> > conversation against Nova Roma, or any other group for that matter, to
> > continue - which has been well met in the rare instance. This group of
> > cultores strictly discusses the Religio Romana and subjects pertaining to
> > it. In fact there is much to learn there for any cultore.
> > Without fighting, divisive arguments and fear of being berated.
> > To my knowledge Marcus Lucretius Agricola has not said anything against
> > Nova Roma in the independent "Cultus Deorum" list.
> > I may have missed it if he did as I have been too busy to frequent any list
> > and so I am asking for specifics.
> >
> > As for the "entity" he is affiliated with please specify in what capacity
> > is he affiliated.
> > The SCU has stripped a citizen of several years of hard earned titles and
> > accomplishments.
> > A citizen who in the past has done much for NR.
> > We, the current citizens of Nova Roma, deserve specifics regarding the
> > Scholar, Augur and Senator M. Lucretius Agricola and why we are taking
> > another step towards the lack of diversity that is so uncharacteristic of
> > ancient Rome.
> >
> > I am not contesting the SCU because that would be fruitless, I am however
> > requesting specifics (as stated above) because that is the Roman way.
> > Full disclosure not a bunch of vague statements.
> >
> > Losing an experienced cultore is a serious issue in Nova Roma because we
> > have become so few and of that even fewer are knowledgeable enough to be
> > examples to others.
> >
> > It is a black day whenever Nova Roma loses a cultore. I am saddened by this
> > measure. But I realize that and a couple of dollars will buy me a cup of
> > coffee.
> > However accountability applies to all citizens, from the newest to the
> > highest magistrates. I await your answer esteemed Consuls.
> >
> > Valete optime pacem deorum,
> >
> > L. Julia Aquila
> > Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis
> > Pontifex Novæ Romæ
> > Praefectus Regio Tennessee: Provincia A.Æ
> > Procurator: Provincia A.Æ
> > Sacerdos Prima A.Æ
> > VII Id. Iun. ‡ P. Ullerio C. Equitio coss.
> >
> > http://aedesvenusgenetrix.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.thelastenchantment.com/
> > Securum in tenebris me facit esse Venus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > EX OFFICIO P. ULLERIO VENATORI C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIBUS
> > >
> > > Under the authority granted to the consuls of Nova Roma by the Senate of
> > Nova Roma in the senatus consultum ultimum regarding individuals holding
> > membership/citizenship in multiple organizations and their relationship to
> > our Respublica while members of those organizations, specifically that:
> > >
> > > "No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma shall be
> > allowed to use their her/his membership either to create, develop or promote
> > such competing organizations, or to act negatively towards Nova Roma, its
> > citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization and actions..."
> > (senatus consultum ultimam passed on a.d. IV Kal. Mar. 2764 AUC, Section 1)
> > >
> > > and that towards any member who does so
> > >
> > > "Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take every measure to prevent, avoid or
> > eliminate any one of the situations evoked in the article 1, including the
> > rights to refuse the admission of an applicant member, to remove a member of
> > her/his membership, to remove or deprive him/her, for a given time, of all
> > or a part of her/his rights of member and/or of her/his rights, powers,
> > privileges and honors which (s)he may hold inside Nova Roma Inc. or the
> > Republic of Nova Roma, including Article II.B of the Constitution of Nova
> > Roma."
> > >
> > > and in view of the statements made by Marcus Lucretius Agricola on the
> > "Cultus Deorum" List, and in view of the fact that he has ignored repeated
> > requests to resign his official position(s) in an entity formed specifically
> > to renounce our Respublica,
> > >
> > > we, the consuls of Nova Roma, hereby strip Marcus Lucretius Agricola of
> > his citizenship in Nova Roma, his priesthoods and any titles honors or
> > dignities he may hold in our Republic.
> > >
> > > We instruct the owners of any official Lists, religious or civil, of
> > which he may currently be a subscriber, to strike him from those Lists and
> > ban him in perpetuity from them.
> > >
> > > This edict is effective immediately upon publication.
> > >
> > > Publius Ullerius Venator
> > > Gaius Equitius Cato
> > > Consuls
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

L. Livia Plauta L. Iuliae Aquilae Consulibus S.P.D.

Actually the "Cultus Deorum" list is a list with very few subscribers, that
can be reached through the www.cultusdeorum.org website (click the "Forum"
link on the main page). The only "statement" by Agricola there is the
following:
"Welcome to this moderated group. All languages are welcome. Spammers will
be banned. Our topic is the *Cultus Deorum Romanorum*. ~ M. Lucretius
Agricola".

I suspect that the list the consuls and Iulia Aquila refer to is the
"Religio Romana Cultorum Deorum" list, which can be reached at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Religio_Romana_Cultorum_Deorum/

I too would be curious about specifics. What are the incriminated
"statements" (if anyone actually bothered to look for such things, that is).

In any case I (a formerly very active citizen) will now go back to lurking
and observing as the current regime comes up with new entertaining examples
of totalitarian measures (at least as long as it doesn't decide that
expressing any dissent warrants proscription, because that's when I will be
expelled too).

Optime valete,
Livia

----- Original Message -----
From: "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@....>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 6:00 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: EDICT CONCERNING MARCUS LUCRETIUS AGRICOLA


L. Iulia Aquila Pontifex Consulibus Quiritibusque S.P.D.


The "Cultus Deorum" list is an independent list of cultores and has no
political affiliation whatsoever. It was created before the strife that has
essentially become a schism. As a moderator I have not allowed any political
conversation against Nova Roma, or any other group for that matter, to
continue - which has been well met in the rare instance. This group of
cultores strictly discusses the Religio Romana and subjects pertaining to
it. In fact there is much to learn there for any cultore.
Without fighting, divisive arguments and fear of being berated.
To my knowledge Marcus Lucretius Agricola has not said anything against Nova
Roma in the independent "Cultus Deorum" list.
I may have missed it if he did as I have been too busy to frequent any list
and so I am asking for specifics.

As for the "entity" he is affiliated with please specify in what capacity is
he affiliated.
The SCU has stripped a citizen of several years of hard earned titles and
accomplishments.
A citizen who in the past has done much for NR.
We, the current citizens of Nova Roma, deserve specifics regarding the
Scholar, Augur and Senator M. Lucretius Agricola and why we are taking
another step towards the lack of diversity that is so uncharacteristic of
ancient Rome.

I am not contesting the SCU because that would be fruitless, I am however
requesting specifics (as stated above) because that is the Roman way.
Full disclosure not a bunch of vague statements.

Losing an experienced cultore is a serious issue in Nova Roma because we
have become so few and of that even fewer are knowledgeable enough to be
examples to others.

It is a black day whenever Nova Roma loses a cultore. I am saddened by
this measure. But I realize that and a couple of dollars will buy me a cup
of coffee.
However accountability applies to all citizens, from the newest to the
highest magistrates. I await your answer esteemed Consuls.

Valete optime pacem deorum,

L. Julia Aquila
Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis
Pontifex Novæ Romæ
Praefectus Regio Tennessee: Provincia A.Æ
Procurator: Provincia A.Æ
Sacerdos Prima A.Æ
VII Id. Iun. ? P. Ullerio C. Equitio coss.

http://aedesvenusgenetrix.blogspot.com/
http://www.thelastenchantment.com/
Securum in tenebris me facit esse Venus

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> EX OFFICIO P. ULLERIO VENATORI C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIBUS
>
> Under the authority granted to the consuls of Nova Roma by the Senate of
> Nova Roma in the senatus consultum ultimum regarding individuals holding
> membership/citizenship in multiple organizations and their relationship to
> our Respublica while members of those organizations, specifically that:
>
> "No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma shall be allowed
> to use their her/his membership either to create, develop or promote such
> competing organizations, or to act negatively towards Nova Roma, its
> citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization and actions..."
> (senatus consultum ultimam passed on a.d. IV Kal. Mar. 2764 AUC, Section
> 1)
>
> and that towards any member who does so
>
> "Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take every measure to prevent, avoid or
> eliminate any one of the situations evoked in the article 1, including the
> rights to refuse the admission of an applicant member, to remove a member
> of her/his membership, to remove or deprive him/her, for a given time, of
> all or a part of her/his rights of member and/or of her/his rights,
> powers, privileges and honors which (s)he may hold inside Nova Roma Inc.
> or the Republic of Nova Roma, including Article II.B of the Constitution
> of Nova Roma."
>
> and in view of the statements made by Marcus Lucretius Agricola on the
> "Cultus Deorum" List, and in view of the fact that he has ignored repeated
> requests to resign his official position(s) in an entity formed
> specifically to renounce our Respublica,
>
> we, the consuls of Nova Roma, hereby strip Marcus Lucretius Agricola of
> his citizenship in Nova Roma, his priesthoods and any titles honors or
> dignities he may hold in our Republic.
>
> We instruct the owners of any official Lists, religious or civil, of which
> he may currently be a subscriber, to strike him from those Lists and ban
> him in perpetuity from them.
>
> This edict is effective immediately upon publication.
>
> Publius Ullerius Venator
> Gaius Equitius Cato
> Consuls
>

Iulia Petronio S.P.D.

At first glance I do not see any problem with the pontifex maximus being elected by the comitia and further it is my opinion that this decreta was influenced by the current political climate more that what should be a reasonable facet of ancient Rome to adapt.

I will give this much consideration but for now I have a few concerns, and they may not be too different from those of 1999.

In ancient Rome the majority of citizens were cultores. I am not sure this is true today and even moreso that cultores may be in the minority. While I respect (and require) the support of non-cultores they do not, cannot, have the mindset of a cultore in regards to the Religio and who are in its highest positions (unless there are gross infractions that negatively impact the Respublica and these often have little to do with the Religio itself). Just as I do not, cannot, possess the mindset of a Christian, Jew or Asatruar. I doubt very much that I would be asked to vote for the Roman Catholic Pope, or have a say in the appointment of a Kohen Gado or Gothi.

Just a thought, another is item X - I will give more thought to what I just posted and also to other concerns I prefer to mull over before sharing.

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Petroni,

L. Julia Aquila
Cultore Novæ Romæ
a.d. VII Id. Iun. ‡ P. Ullerio C. Equitio coss

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius Dexter omnibus, qui in Foro spatiantur, salutem dicit:
>
> According to the Constitution:
>
> "The edicts of the dictator are absolute within his sphere of influence, and subject to neither intercessio or provocatio."
>
> In my opinion, a law voted by the comitia is not an intercessio nor a provocatio. So, it is allowed to modify or repeal any dictatorial edict by a law as it was allowed in Ancient Rome. Many edicts of the dictator Sulla in the Ancient Rome were modified or repealed by the comitia. For example, the composition of the Justice courts and other things. To modify, to reenact, to update decreta pontificum is the duty of the CP as well, which modification shall not be an intercessio nor a provocatio.
>
> I beg this question because we have among the decreta pontificum one of them which was enacted by a dictatorial decree, on 30 July 2752/1999.
>
> Here the link of this edictum:
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Decretum_pro_qui_in_collegium_pontificum_et_collegium_augurum_%28Nova_Roma%29
>
> If you read it, you can see that the dictator statued that the pontifex maximus of Nova Roma is elected by the Collegium Pontificum. Which is totally contrary to the mos maiorum and also to the Lex Domitia, 3rd century BC, according to which the pontifex maximus was elected by 17 tribes chosen by sort among the 35 tribes of the comitia.
>
> I think very important that the pontifex maximus be elected by the comitia rather than by the collegium pontificum. Why? The cooptation by a few number of "experts" or "a sort of elite" looks like the election of the Christian pope, who also taken the title of pontifex maximus, and is not the way used by the Romans.
>
> Every thing has its pro and its contra. I know.
> Perhaps the election of the pontifex maximus by the comitia was never made before in Nova Roma, but it was the choice of the ancient Romans. And this choice was in force from the 3rd century BC till the imperial period, in which every emperor after Augustus was automatically pontifex maximus.
>
> But, we are living in a Republic, and perhaps the people, at least 17 tribes chosen by sort, id est 17 tribes chosen by the gods, may want to elect the pontifex maximus of Nova Roma among its pontiffs, rather to leave this right (Lex Domitia) to the collegium pontificum.
>
> It is just to know any advices of yours, my fellow citizens.
>
> Optime valete.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. VII Idus Iunias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>

Aeternia L. Iuliae Aquilae Pontifici . Omnibusque S.P.D.


As much as I find you a rockstar Julia( I loves you don't get mad), Sulla
does make some points although ineloquently and over the top as usual...

I read the Tribunes report every time it gets posted, I never see Agricola
vote or give any form of commentary, and he was a Senator by special private
citizen status? I mean how did that even happen?

So what is he was just to be a placeholder? The Senate is our executive
body, why be given the power to vote on matters if you're not going to do
so..

Some food for thought.

Vale Optime,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Senator Sulla,

On 7 June 2011 23:23, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:

> Hey is not just a religio thingy...he is a SENATOR...and thusly that is
> why
>
> he is being 86ed.
>
If my fellow coreligionist is to be "86ed" without specific justifications
and accusations provided, or due process extended, then as a simple matter
of honor I will have to reassess my own continued participation as a citizen
of NR. I don't have the years of dedicated service invested in this
organization (just a few months and $12). Why would I waste my time, effort
and money contributing to an organization that acts in this manner, risking
exactly the same thing happening to me down the line? By your argument I can
never participate in the cursus honorum of NR as a cultor who may wish to
belong to other organized bodies of cultores outside of NR.

> You don't keep Benedict Arnold as a General in the Continental Army after
> he
> has been discovered trying to sell West Point to the British.
>
There was a body of evidence, charges and something other than an implied
guilt-by-association against Benedict Arnold. It seems to me that draconian
powers are being used here without any justification being given to the
people. Where is the evidence that Marcus Lucretius Agricola has said or
done anything to discredit Nova Roma? The people have a right to know. We
cultores have a right to know why the Magister Collegii of the Collegium
Augurum is to be deprived of his rights as a citizen.

We need EVIDENCE. I join Iulia Aquila Pontifex in asking that specifics are
provided.

> If he was just a regular citizen, like say...LIVIA...the Edict would not
> have been needed.
>
What ever happened to your defense of applying the same standard to ALL
citizens Senator? Where is your defense of consistency and concern for what
the people have a right to know? Please show that the proscribed person
poses an imminent threat to NR that justifies the application of this SCU.

> This is NOT a black day for NR and any attempt to spin it that way is
> false.
>
This is a black day for me personally - because I am losing confidence in
the Senate and Magistrates of NR. The edict under the SCU may be legal, but
is it's application just? Perhaps this edict is fully deserved, but if it is
deserved then it should be easy to present a case for it to the people. So,
let us forestall all argument and controversy and furnish the evidence.

Vale,

Volusus.

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 9:00 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <

> luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > L. Iulia Aquila Pontifex Consulibus Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> >
> > The "Cultus Deorum" list is an independent list of cultores and has no
> > political affiliation whatsoever. It was created before the strife that
> has
> > essentially become a schism. As a moderator I have not allowed any
> political
> > conversation against Nova Roma, or any other group for that matter, to
> > continue - which has been well met in the rare instance. This group of
> > cultores strictly discusses the Religio Romana and subjects pertaining to
> > it. In fact there is much to learn there for any cultore.
> > Without fighting, divisive arguments and fear of being berated.
> > To my knowledge Marcus Lucretius Agricola has not said anything against
> > Nova Roma in the independent "Cultus Deorum" list.
> > I may have missed it if he did as I have been too busy to frequent any
> list
> > and so I am asking for specifics.
> >
> > As for the "entity" he is affiliated with please specify in what capacity
> > is he affiliated.
> > The SCU has stripped a citizen of several years of hard earned titles and
> > accomplishments.
> > A citizen who in the past has done much for NR.
> > We, the current citizens of Nova Roma, deserve specifics regarding the
> > Scholar, Augur and Senator M. Lucretius Agricola and why we are taking
> > another step towards the lack of diversity that is so uncharacteristic of
> > ancient Rome.
> >
> > I am not contesting the SCU because that would be fruitless, I am however
> > requesting specifics (as stated above) because that is the Roman way.
> > Full disclosure not a bunch of vague statements.
> >
> > Losing an experienced cultore is a serious issue in Nova Roma because we
> > have become so few and of that even fewer are knowledgeable enough to be
> > examples to others.
> >
> > It is a black day whenever Nova Roma loses a cultore. I am saddened by
> this
> > measure. But I realize that and a couple of dollars will buy me a cup of
> > coffee.
> > However accountability applies to all citizens, from the newest to the
> > highest magistrates. I await your answer esteemed Consuls.
> >
> > Valete optime pacem deorum,
> >
> > L. Julia Aquila
> > Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis
> > Pontifex Novæ Romæ
> > Praefectus Regio Tennessee: Provincia A.Æ
> > Procurator: Provincia A.Æ
> > Sacerdos Prima A.Æ
> > VII Id. Iun. ‡ P. Ullerio C. Equitio coss.
> >
> > http://aedesvenusgenetrix.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.thelastenchantment.com/
> > Securum in tenebris me facit esse Venus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > EX OFFICIO P. ULLERIO VENATORI C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIBUS
> > >
> > > Under the authority granted to the consuls of Nova Roma by the Senate
> of
> > Nova Roma in the senatus consultum ultimum regarding individuals holding
> > membership/citizenship in multiple organizations and their relationship
> to
> > our Respublica while members of those organizations, specifically that:
> > >
> > > "No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma shall be
> > allowed to use their her/his membership either to create, develop or
> promote
> > such competing organizations, or to act negatively towards Nova Roma, its
> > citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization and actions..."
> > (senatus consultum ultimam passed on a.d. IV Kal. Mar. 2764 AUC, Section
> 1)
> > >
> > > and that towards any member who does so
> > >
> > > "Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take every measure to prevent, avoid or
> > eliminate any one of the situations evoked in the article 1, including
> the
> > rights to refuse the admission of an applicant member, to remove a member
> of
> > her/his membership, to remove or deprive him/her, for a given time, of
> all
> > or a part of her/his rights of member and/or of her/his rights, powers,
> > privileges and honors which (s)he may hold inside Nova Roma Inc. or the
> > Republic of Nova Roma, including Article II.B of the Constitution of Nova
> > Roma."
> > >
> > > and in view of the statements made by Marcus Lucretius Agricola on the
> > "Cultus Deorum" List, and in view of the fact that he has ignored
> repeated
> > requests to resign his official position(s) in an entity formed
> specifically
> > to renounce our Respublica,
> > >
> > > we, the consuls of Nova Roma, hereby strip Marcus Lucretius Agricola of
> > his citizenship in Nova Roma, his priesthoods and any titles honors or
> > dignities he may hold in our Republic.
> > >
> > > We instruct the owners of any official Lists, religious or civil, of
> > which he may currently be a subscriber, to strike him from those Lists
> and
> > ban him in perpetuity from them.
> > >
> > > This edict is effective immediately upon publication.
> > >
> > > Publius Ullerius Venator
> > > Gaius Equitius Cato
> > > Consuls
> >
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete

This is a sad day.

Valete

Ti. Galerius Paulinus



To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: catoinnyc@...
Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 13:24:33 +0000
Subject: [Nova-Roma] EDICT CONCERNING MARCUS LUCRETIUS AGRICOLA






EX OFFICIO P. ULLERIO VENATORI C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIBUS

Under the authority granted to the consuls of Nova Roma by the Senate of Nova Roma in the senatus consultum ultimum regarding individuals holding membership/citizenship in multiple organizations and their relationship to our Respublica while members of those organizations, specifically that:

"No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma shall be allowed to use their her/his membership either to create, develop or promote such competing organizations, or to act negatively towards Nova Roma, its citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization and actions..." (senatus consultum ultimam passed on a.d. IV Kal. Mar. 2764 AUC, Section 1)

and that towards any member who does so

"Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate any one of the situations evoked in the article 1, including the rights to refuse the admission of an applicant member, to remove a member of her/his membership, to remove or deprive him/her, for a given time, of all or a part of her/his rights of member and/or of her/his rights, powers, privileges and honors which (s)he may hold inside Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma, including Article II.B of the Constitution of Nova Roma."

and in view of the statements made by Marcus Lucretius Agricola on the "Cultus Deorum" List, and in view of the fact that he has ignored repeated requests to resign his official position(s) in an entity formed specifically to renounce our Respublica,

we, the consuls of Nova Roma, hereby strip Marcus Lucretius Agricola of his citizenship in Nova Roma, his priesthoods and any titles honors or dignities he may hold in our Republic.

We instruct the owners of any official Lists, religious or civil, of which he may currently be a subscriber, to strike him from those Lists and ban him in perpetuity from them.

This edict is effective immediately upon publication.

Publius Ullerius Venator
Gaius Equitius Cato
Consuls





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Except we already have that in nr, amongst the "cultor elite."

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 7, 2011, at 10:03 AM, "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

> Iulia Petronio S.P.D.
>
> At first glance I do not see any problem with the pontifex maximus being elected by the comitia and further it is my opinion that this decreta was influenced by the current political climate more that what should be a reasonable facet of ancient Rome to adapt.
>
> I will give this much consideration but for now I have a few concerns, and they may not be too different from those of 1999.
>
> In ancient Rome the majority of citizens were cultores. I am not sure this is true today and even moreso that cultores may be in the minority. While I respect (and require) the support of non-cultores they do not, cannot, have the mindset of a cultore in regards to the Religio and who are in its highest positions (unless there are gross infractions that negatively impact the Respublica and these often have little to do with the Religio itself). Just as I do not, cannot, possess the mindset of a Christian, Jew or Asatruar. I doubt very much that I would be asked to vote for the Roman Catholic Pope, or have a say in the appointment of a Kohen Gado or Gothi.
>
> Just a thought, another is item X - I will give more thought to what I just posted and also to other concerns I prefer to mull over before sharing.
>
> Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Petroni,
>
> L. Julia Aquila
> Cultore Novæ Romæ
> a.d. VII Id. Iun. ‡ P. Ullerio C. Equitio coss
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
> >
> > C. Petronius Dexter omnibus, qui in Foro spatiantur, salutem dicit:
> >
> > According to the Constitution:
> >
> > "The edicts of the dictator are absolute within his sphere of influence, and subject to neither intercessio or provocatio."
> >
> > In my opinion, a law voted by the comitia is not an intercessio nor a provocatio. So, it is allowed to modify or repeal any dictatorial edict by a law as it was allowed in Ancient Rome. Many edicts of the dictator Sulla in the Ancient Rome were modified or repealed by the comitia. For example, the composition of the Justice courts and other things. To modify, to reenact, to update decreta pontificum is the duty of the CP as well, which modification shall not be an intercessio nor a provocatio.
> >
> > I beg this question because we have among the decreta pontificum one of them which was enacted by a dictatorial decree, on 30 July 2752/1999.
> >
> > Here the link of this edictum:
> > http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Decretum_pro_qui_in_collegium_pontificum_et_collegium_augurum_%28Nova_Roma%29
> >
> > If you read it, you can see that the dictator statued that the pontifex maximus of Nova Roma is elected by the Collegium Pontificum. Which is totally contrary to the mos maiorum and also to the Lex Domitia, 3rd century BC, according to which the pontifex maximus was elected by 17 tribes chosen by sort among the 35 tribes of the comitia.
> >
> > I think very important that the pontifex maximus be elected by the comitia rather than by the collegium pontificum. Why? The cooptation by a few number of "experts" or "a sort of elite" looks like the election of the Christian pope, who also taken the title of pontifex maximus, and is not the way used by the Romans.
> >
> > Every thing has its pro and its contra. I know.
> > Perhaps the election of the pontifex maximus by the comitia was never made before in Nova Roma, but it was the choice of the ancient Romans. And this choice was in force from the 3rd century BC till the imperial period, in which every emperor after Augustus was automatically pontifex maximus.
> >
> > But, we are living in a Republic, and perhaps the people, at least 17 tribes chosen by sort, id est 17 tribes chosen by the gods, may want to elect the pontifex maximus of Nova Roma among its pontiffs, rather to leave this right (Lex Domitia) to the collegium pontificum.
> >
> > It is just to know any advices of yours, my fellow citizens.
> >
> > Optime valete.
> >
> > C. Petronius Dexter
> > Arcoiali scribebat
> > a. d. VII Idus Iunias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
> >
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iulia Aeterniae S.P.D.

I am not mad at you;)
I understand the SCU and Agricola's part in its application towards him - that was his decision and he knew the consequences.
But it is just not Agricola.
We should have specifics, not just vague assertions.
You, me, any citizen might be next.

The fact that Livia feels threatened with loss of citizenship if she expresses her opinion concerns me - because of her outside affiliations and friendships.
In addition citizens are wary to express their opinion because of the harsh reception on the ML rather than a reasonable discussion.
I know about the argument that to fight and fuss is Roman, ancient Roman let us not forget, because not only did they have the Tarpeian Rock but for a price thugs could be hired to put an end to any out of control dissension - or citizen. So that argument does not have credence in modern Nova Roma - in my opinion those that do are only in the Respublica as a game.

It concerns me that an excellent and independent Religio group might be the next target. I want to know what has Agricola said that puts NR in a bad light. Knowing Agricola he would rather stew than say anything, as I suspect this might have been the case in the Senate.
In the least, the specifics might give us a guideline so other should watch their tongue in the future. That should make any free citizen uneasy.
It will be interesting to see if the specifics reveal reasonable evidence to support the claim regarding "the statements made by Marcus Lucretius Agricola on the "Cultus Deorum" List."

Now, there I just presented a banquet for thought;)

Vale bene,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...> wrote:
>
> Aeternia L. Iuliae Aquilae Pontifici . Omnibusque S.P.D.
>
>
> As much as I find you a rockstar Julia( I loves you don't get mad), Sulla
> does make some points although ineloquently and over the top as usual...
>
> I read the Tribunes report every time it gets posted, I never see Agricola
> vote or give any form of commentary, and he was a Senator by special private
> citizen status? I mean how did that even happen?
>
> So what is he was just to be a placeholder? The Senate is our executive
> body, why be given the power to vote on matters if you're not going to do
> so..
>
> Some food for thought.
>
> Vale Optime,
> Aeternia
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

L. Iulia Aquila V. Valerio Voluso S.P.D.

Here again I am concerned that, you, a cultore, would consider leaving NR. I do hope you stay, we need minds like yours.
The Religio needs cultores to continue to exist, our citizens are what holds us together.
I thank you for speaking up, you, Sir, have the courage of your convictions. I admire that, I admire you.

Vale bene,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Nyk Cowham <nyk@...> wrote:
>
> Salve Senator Sulla,
>
> On 7 June 2011 23:23, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> > Hey is not just a religio thingy...he is a SENATOR...and thusly that is
> > why
> >
> > he is being 86ed.
> >
> If my fellow coreligionist is to be "86ed" without specific justifications
> and accusations provided, or due process extended, then as a simple matter
> of honor I will have to reassess my own continued participation as a citizen
> of NR. I don't have the years of dedicated service invested in this
> organization (just a few months and $12). Why would I waste my time, effort
> and money contributing to an organization that acts in this manner, risking
> exactly the same thing happening to me down the line? By your argument I can
> never participate in the cursus honorum of NR as a cultor who may wish to
> belong to other organized bodies of cultores outside of NR.
>
> > You don't keep Benedict Arnold as a General in the Continental Army after
> > he
> > has been discovered trying to sell West Point to the British.
> >
> There was a body of evidence, charges and something other than an implied
> guilt-by-association against Benedict Arnold. It seems to me that draconian
> powers are being used here without any justification being given to the
> people. Where is the evidence that Marcus Lucretius Agricola has said or
> done anything to discredit Nova Roma? The people have a right to know. We
> cultores have a right to know why the Magister Collegii of the Collegium
> Augurum is to be deprived of his rights as a citizen.
>
> We need EVIDENCE. I join Iulia Aquila Pontifex in asking that specifics are
> provided.
>
> > If he was just a regular citizen, like say...LIVIA...the Edict would not
> > have been needed.
> >
> What ever happened to your defense of applying the same standard to ALL
> citizens Senator? Where is your defense of consistency and concern for what
> the people have a right to know? Please show that the proscribed person
> poses an imminent threat to NR that justifies the application of this SCU.
>
> > This is NOT a black day for NR and any attempt to spin it that way is
> > false.
> >
> This is a black day for me personally - because I am losing confidence in
> the Senate and Magistrates of NR. The edict under the SCU may be legal, but
> is it's application just? Perhaps this edict is fully deserved, but if it is
> deserved then it should be easy to present a case for it to the people. So,
> let us forestall all argument and controversy and furnish the evidence.
>
> Vale,
>
> Volusus.
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 9:00 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
>
> > luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > L. Iulia Aquila Pontifex Consulibus Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> > >
> > > The "Cultus Deorum" list is an independent list of cultores and has no
> > > political affiliation whatsoever. It was created before the strife that
> > has
> > > essentially become a schism. As a moderator I have not allowed any
> > political
> > > conversation against Nova Roma, or any other group for that matter, to
> > > continue - which has been well met in the rare instance. This group of
> > > cultores strictly discusses the Religio Romana and subjects pertaining to
> > > it. In fact there is much to learn there for any cultore.
> > > Without fighting, divisive arguments and fear of being berated.
> > > To my knowledge Marcus Lucretius Agricola has not said anything against
> > > Nova Roma in the independent "Cultus Deorum" list.
> > > I may have missed it if he did as I have been too busy to frequent any
> > list
> > > and so I am asking for specifics.
> > >
> > > As for the "entity" he is affiliated with please specify in what capacity
> > > is he affiliated.
> > > The SCU has stripped a citizen of several years of hard earned titles and
> > > accomplishments.
> > > A citizen who in the past has done much for NR.
> > > We, the current citizens of Nova Roma, deserve specifics regarding the
> > > Scholar, Augur and Senator M. Lucretius Agricola and why we are taking
> > > another step towards the lack of diversity that is so uncharacteristic of
> > > ancient Rome.
> > >
> > > I am not contesting the SCU because that would be fruitless, I am however
> > > requesting specifics (as stated above) because that is the Roman way.
> > > Full disclosure not a bunch of vague statements.
> > >
> > > Losing an experienced cultore is a serious issue in Nova Roma because we
> > > have become so few and of that even fewer are knowledgeable enough to be
> > > examples to others.
> > >
> > > It is a black day whenever Nova Roma loses a cultore. I am saddened by
> > this
> > > measure. But I realize that and a couple of dollars will buy me a cup of
> > > coffee.
> > > However accountability applies to all citizens, from the newest to the
> > > highest magistrates. I await your answer esteemed Consuls.
> > >
> > > Valete optime pacem deorum,
> > >
> > > L. Julia Aquila
> > > Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis
> > > Pontifex Novæ Romæ
> > > Praefectus Regio Tennessee: Provincia A.Æ
> > > Procurator: Provincia A.Æ
> > > Sacerdos Prima A.Æ
> > > VII Id. Iun. ‡ P. Ullerio C. Equitio coss.
> > >
> > > http://aedesvenusgenetrix.blogspot.com/
> > > http://www.thelastenchantment.com/
> > > Securum in tenebris me facit esse Venus
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > EX OFFICIO P. ULLERIO VENATORI C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIBUS
> > > >
> > > > Under the authority granted to the consuls of Nova Roma by the Senate
> > of
> > > Nova Roma in the senatus consultum ultimum regarding individuals holding
> > > membership/citizenship in multiple organizations and their relationship
> > to
> > > our Respublica while members of those organizations, specifically that:
> > > >
> > > > "No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma shall be
> > > allowed to use their her/his membership either to create, develop or
> > promote
> > > such competing organizations, or to act negatively towards Nova Roma, its
> > > citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization and actions..."
> > > (senatus consultum ultimam passed on a.d. IV Kal. Mar. 2764 AUC, Section
> > 1)
> > > >
> > > > and that towards any member who does so
> > > >
> > > > "Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take every measure to prevent, avoid or
> > > eliminate any one of the situations evoked in the article 1, including
> > the
> > > rights to refuse the admission of an applicant member, to remove a member
> > of
> > > her/his membership, to remove or deprive him/her, for a given time, of
> > all
> > > or a part of her/his rights of member and/or of her/his rights, powers,
> > > privileges and honors which (s)he may hold inside Nova Roma Inc. or the
> > > Republic of Nova Roma, including Article II.B of the Constitution of Nova
> > > Roma."
> > > >
> > > > and in view of the statements made by Marcus Lucretius Agricola on the
> > > "Cultus Deorum" List, and in view of the fact that he has ignored
> > repeated
> > > requests to resign his official position(s) in an entity formed
> > specifically
> > > to renounce our Respublica,
> > > >
> > > > we, the consuls of Nova Roma, hereby strip Marcus Lucretius Agricola of
> > > his citizenship in Nova Roma, his priesthoods and any titles honors or
> > > dignities he may hold in our Republic.
> > > >
> > > > We instruct the owners of any official Lists, religious or civil, of
> > > which he may currently be a subscriber, to strike him from those Lists
> > and
> > > ban him in perpetuity from them.
> > > >
> > > > This edict is effective immediately upon publication.
> > > >
> > > > Publius Ullerius Venator
> > > > Gaius Equitius Cato
> > > > Consuls
> > >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Aeternia Iuliae S.P.D.


Livia feels threatened of her citizenship if she speaks? Really? If that
were the case I would think she would have been removed a long time ago..
How many times have we read by her own admission she was contently glad to
watch on the sidelines this year and do nothing activity wise. And yet
Livia is still a citizen in Nova Roma, completely free to do what will
including sitting on the sidelines...

If this was truly totalitarian, she would not be still a civis, Livia has
the right to be speak she knows this ...Julia, the current Consuls try
extremely hard to be fair...

Everyone has the right to speak, see you and me are speaking right now... I
will respond more to this after my shift ends...

Vale Optime,
Aeternia



On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:41 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

> nia
>
> Iulia Aeterniae S.P.D.
>
> I am not mad at you;)
> I understand the SCU and Agricola's part in its application towards him -
> that was his decision and he knew the consequences.
> But it is just not Agricola.
> We should have specifics, not just vague assertions.
> You, me, any citizen might be next.
>
> The fact that Livia feels threatened with loss of citizenship if she
> expresses her opinion concerns me - because of her outside affiliations and
> friendships.
> In addition citizens are wary to express their opinion because of the harsh
> reception on the ML rather than a reasonable discussion.
> I know about the argument that to fight and fuss is Roman, ancient Roman
> let us not forget, because not only did they have the Tarpeian Rock but for
> a price thugs could be hired to put an end to any out of control dissension
> - or citizen. So that argument does not have credence in modern Nova Roma -
> in my opinion those that do are only in the Respublica as a game.
>
> It concerns me that an excellent and independent Religio group might be the
> next target. I want to know what has Agricola said that puts NR in a bad
> light. Knowing Agricola he would rather stew than say anything, as I suspect
> this might have been the case in the Senate.
> In the least, the specifics might give us a guideline so other should watch
> their tongue in the future. That should make any free citizen uneasy.
> It will be interesting to see if the specifics reveal reasonable evidence
> to support the claim regarding "the statements made by Marcus Lucretius
> Agricola on the "Cultus Deorum" List."
>
> Now, there I just presented a banquet for thought;)
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Julia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Aeternia L. Iuliae Aquilae Pontifici . Omnibusque S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > As much as I find you a rockstar Julia( I loves you don't get mad), Sulla
> > does make some points although ineloquently and over the top as usual...
> >
> > I read the Tribunes report every time it gets posted, I never see
> Agricola
> > vote or give any form of commentary, and he was a Senator by special
> private
> > citizen status? I mean how did that even happen?
> >
> > So what is he was just to be a placeholder? The Senate is our executive
> > body, why be given the power to vote on matters if you're not going to do
> > so..
> >
> > Some food for thought.
> >
> > Vale Optime,
> > Aeternia
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

Here is my response to you Iulia:

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 9:35 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

>
>
> L. Iulia Aquila Pontifex Quiritibusque S.P.D.
>
>
> > Hey is not just a religio thingy
>
> This statement, fellow citizens, demonstrates a lack of utter disregard and
> disrespect for the Religio.
>

No more disrespect than those who claim to be Co-Religionists or cultors!

>
> Sulla is not a cultore and so it obviously means very little to him to lose
> even one cultore.
>

You are damned right, because I view the corporation as paramount. Not only
that....the CONSTITUTION puts the Corporation paramount. So, ever senator
who has breeched their fiduciary duty should be held to the highest gallow
there. And you know what, at least I wont make a double standard just
because the person who failed to do their fiduciary duty is a cultor!
Double standards, Julia.....really? REALLY?

>
> Unless Sulla can provide the specifics I requested I will no longer reply
> to his divisive exaggerated ramblings.
>

I provided my specifics to the Consul. ;) In compliance with the Edict.
Unlike you Iulia, I strive to have no DOUBLE standards just because the
person is a cultor. Credibility is my watchword.

Vale,

Sulla

>
>
> L. Julia Aquila
> Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis
> Pontifex Novæ Romæ
> Praefectus Regio Tennessee: Provincia A.Æ
> Procurator: Provincia A.Æ
> Sacerdos Prima A.Æ
> Ordo Equester
> VII Id. Iun. ‡ P. Ullerio C. Equitio coss.
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hey is not just a religio thingy...he is a SENATOR...and thusly that is
> why
> > he is being 86ed.
> >
> > You don't keep Benedict Arnold as a General in the Continental Army after
> he
> > has been discovered trying to sell West Point to the British.
> >
> > If he was just a regular citizen, like say...LIVIA...the Edict would not
> > have been needed.
> >
> > This is NOT a black day for NR and any attempt to spin it that way is
> false.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 9:00 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> > luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > L. Iulia Aquila Pontifex Consulibus Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> > >
> > > The "Cultus Deorum" list is an independent list of cultores and has no
> > > political affiliation whatsoever. It was created before the strife that
> has
> > > essentially become a schism. As a moderator I have not allowed any
> political
> > > conversation against Nova Roma, or any other group for that matter, to
> > > continue - which has been well met in the rare instance. This group of
> > > cultores strictly discusses the Religio Romana and subjects pertaining
> to
> > > it. In fact there is much to learn there for any cultore.
> > > Without fighting, divisive arguments and fear of being berated.
> > > To my knowledge Marcus Lucretius Agricola has not said anything against
> > > Nova Roma in the independent "Cultus Deorum" list.
> > > I may have missed it if he did as I have been too busy to frequent any
> list
> > > and so I am asking for specifics.
> > >
> > > As for the "entity" he is affiliated with please specify in what
> capacity
> > > is he affiliated.
> > > The SCU has stripped a citizen of several years of hard earned titles
> and
> > > accomplishments.
> > > A citizen who in the past has done much for NR.
> > > We, the current citizens of Nova Roma, deserve specifics regarding the
> > > Scholar, Augur and Senator M. Lucretius Agricola and why we are taking
> > > another step towards the lack of diversity that is so uncharacteristic
> of
> > > ancient Rome.
> > >
> > > I am not contesting the SCU because that would be fruitless, I am
> however
> > > requesting specifics (as stated above) because that is the Roman way.
> > > Full disclosure not a bunch of vague statements.
> > >
> > > Losing an experienced cultore is a serious issue in Nova Roma because
> we
> > > have become so few and of that even fewer are knowledgeable enough to
> be
> > > examples to others.
> > >
> > > It is a black day whenever Nova Roma loses a cultore. I am saddened by
> this
> > > measure. But I realize that and a couple of dollars will buy me a cup
> of
> > > coffee.
> > > However accountability applies to all citizens, from the newest to the
> > > highest magistrates. I await your answer esteemed Consuls.
> > >
> > > Valete optime pacem deorum,
> > >
> > > L. Julia Aquila
> > > Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis
> > > Pontifex Novæ Romæ
> > > Praefectus Regio Tennessee: Provincia A.Æ
> > > Procurator: Provincia A.Æ
> > > Sacerdos Prima A.Æ
> > > VII Id. Iun. ‡ P. Ullerio C. Equitio coss.
>
> > >
> > > http://aedesvenusgenetrix.blogspot.com/
> > > http://www.thelastenchantment.com/
> > > Securum in tenebris me facit esse Venus
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > EX OFFICIO P. ULLERIO VENATORI C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIBUS
> > > >
> > > > Under the authority granted to the consuls of Nova Roma by the Senate
> of
> > > Nova Roma in the senatus consultum ultimum regarding individuals
> holding
> > > membership/citizenship in multiple organizations and their relationship
> to
> > > our Respublica while members of those organizations, specifically that:
> > > >
> > > > "No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma shall be
> > > allowed to use their her/his membership either to create, develop or
> promote
> > > such competing organizations, or to act negatively towards Nova Roma,
> its
> > > citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization and actions..."
> > > (senatus consultum ultimam passed on a.d. IV Kal. Mar. 2764 AUC,
> Section 1)
> > > >
> > > > and that towards any member who does so
> > > >
> > > > "Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take every measure to prevent, avoid
> or
> > > eliminate any one of the situations evoked in the article 1, including
> the
> > > rights to refuse the admission of an applicant member, to remove a
> member of
> > > her/his membership, to remove or deprive him/her, for a given time, of
> all
> > > or a part of her/his rights of member and/or of her/his rights, powers,
> > > privileges and honors which (s)he may hold inside Nova Roma Inc. or the
> > > Republic of Nova Roma, including Article II.B of the Constitution of
> Nova
> > > Roma."
> > > >
> > > > and in view of the statements made by Marcus Lucretius Agricola on
> the
> > > "Cultus Deorum" List, and in view of the fact that he has ignored
> repeated
> > > requests to resign his official position(s) in an entity formed
> specifically
> > > to renounce our Respublica,
> > > >
> > > > we, the consuls of Nova Roma, hereby strip Marcus Lucretius Agricola
> of
> > > his citizenship in Nova Roma, his priesthoods and any titles honors or
> > > dignities he may hold in our Republic.
> > > >
> > > > We instruct the owners of any official Lists, religious or civil, of
> > > which he may currently be a subscriber, to strike him from those Lists
> and
> > > ban him in perpetuity from them.
> > > >
> > > > This edict is effective immediately upon publication.
> > > >
> > > > Publius Ullerius Venator
> > > > Gaius Equitius Cato
> > > > Consuls
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Livia feels threated to speak up? Wait..didnt she just post about an hour
ago? LOL

What a strawman argument...considering we had this discussion about 2 months
ago on the ML here....I guess Julia was asleep through that discussion.

Vale,

Sulla

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 11:00 AM, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...

> wrote:

> Aeternia Iuliae S.P.D.
>
>
> Livia feels threatened of her citizenship if she speaks? Really? If that
> were the case I would think she would have been removed a long time ago..
> How many times have we read by her own admission she was contently glad to
> watch on the sidelines this year and do nothing activity wise. And yet
> Livia is still a citizen in Nova Roma, completely free to do what will
> including sitting on the sidelines...
>
> If this was truly totalitarian, she would not be still a civis, Livia has
> the right to be speak she knows this ...Julia, the current Consuls try
> extremely hard to be fair...
>
> Everyone has the right to speak, see you and me are speaking right now...
> I
> will respond more to this after my shift ends...
>
> Vale Optime,
> Aeternia
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:41 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>
> > nia
> >
> > Iulia Aeterniae S.P.D.
> >
> > I am not mad at you;)
> > I understand the SCU and Agricola's part in its application towards him -
> > that was his decision and he knew the consequences.
> > But it is just not Agricola.
> > We should have specifics, not just vague assertions.
> > You, me, any citizen might be next.
> >
> > The fact that Livia feels threatened with loss of citizenship if she
> > expresses her opinion concerns me - because of her outside affiliations
> and
> > friendships.
> > In addition citizens are wary to express their opinion because of the
> harsh
> > reception on the ML rather than a reasonable discussion.
> > I know about the argument that to fight and fuss is Roman, ancient Roman
> > let us not forget, because not only did they have the Tarpeian Rock but
> for
> > a price thugs could be hired to put an end to any out of control
> dissension
> > - or citizen. So that argument does not have credence in modern Nova Roma
> -
> > in my opinion those that do are only in the Respublica as a game.
> >
> > It concerns me that an excellent and independent Religio group might be
> the
> > next target. I want to know what has Agricola said that puts NR in a bad
> > light. Knowing Agricola he would rather stew than say anything, as I
> suspect
> > this might have been the case in the Senate.
> > In the least, the specifics might give us a guideline so other should
> watch
> > their tongue in the future. That should make any free citizen uneasy.
> > It will be interesting to see if the specifics reveal reasonable evidence
> > to support the claim regarding "the statements made by Marcus Lucretius
> > Agricola on the "Cultus Deorum" List."
> >
> > Now, there I just presented a banquet for thought;)
> >
> > Vale bene,
> >
> > Julia
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Aeternia L. Iuliae Aquilae Pontifici . Omnibusque S.P.D.
> > >
> > >
> > > As much as I find you a rockstar Julia( I loves you don't get mad),
> Sulla
> > > does make some points although ineloquently and over the top as
> usual...
> > >
> > > I read the Tribunes report every time it gets posted, I never see
> > Agricola
> > > vote or give any form of commentary, and he was a Senator by special
> > private
> > > citizen status? I mean how did that even happen?
> > >
> > > So what is he was just to be a placeholder? The Senate is our executive
> > > body, why be given the power to vote on matters if you're not going to
> do
> > > so..
> > >
> > > Some food for thought.
> > >
> > > Vale Optime,
> > > Aeternia
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:41 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

>
>
> Iulia Aeterniae S.P.D.
>
> I am not mad at you;)
> I understand the SCU and Agricola's part in its application towards him -
> that was his decision and he knew the consequences.
> But it is just not Agricola.
> We should have specifics, not just vague assertions.
> You, me, any citizen might be next.
>

WRONG!!!! Please reread the SCU! It clearly states the requirements of
applicability. Until you do...it is useless to have this discussion...its
like trying to argue 2+2 to someone who has no concept of what addition is!

Vale,

Sulla

>
> The fact that Livia feels threatened with loss of citizenship if she
> expresses her opinion concerns me - because of her outside affiliations and
> friendships.
> In addition citizens are wary to express their opinion because of the harsh
> reception on the ML rather than a reasonable discussion.
> I know about the argument that to fight and fuss is Roman, ancient Roman
> let us not forget, because not only did they have the Tarpeian Rock but for
> a price thugs could be hired to put an end to any out of control dissension
> - or citizen. So that argument does not have credence in modern Nova Roma -
> in my opinion those that do are only in the Respublica as a game.
>
> It concerns me that an excellent and independent Religio group might be the
> next target. I want to know what has Agricola said that puts NR in a bad
> light. Knowing Agricola he would rather stew than say anything, as I suspect
> this might have been the case in the Senate.
> In the least, the specifics might give us a guideline so other should watch
> their tongue in the future. That should make any free citizen uneasy.
> It will be interesting to see if the specifics reveal reasonable evidence
> to support the claim regarding "the statements made by Marcus Lucretius
> Agricola on the "Cultus Deorum" List."
>
> Now, there I just presented a banquet for thought;)
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Julia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Aeternia L. Iuliae Aquilae Pontifici . Omnibusque S.P.D.
> >
> >
> > As much as I find you a rockstar Julia( I loves you don't get mad), Sulla
> > does make some points although ineloquently and over the top as usual...
> >
> > I read the Tribunes report every time it gets posted, I never see
> Agricola
> > vote or give any form of commentary, and he was a Senator by special
> private
> > citizen status? I mean how did that even happen?
> >
> > So what is he was just to be a placeholder? The Senate is our executive
> > body, why be given the power to vote on matters if you're not going to do
> > so..
> >
> > Some food for thought.
> >
> > Vale Optime,
> > Aeternia
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

Once again, this is NOT about cultors but about those citizens who are
magistrates and Board members. I can care less if the individual was a
cultor or NOT. NO DOUBLE STANDARDS...the law applies equally to all.

If that is not applicable to you or V Valerius...then you are in the wrong
organization.

YOU DO NOT GET A FREE PASS just because you are a cultor. My G-d I thought
we got rid of Hortensia like arguments....whats next...banish the
monotheists LOL.

Vale,

Sulla

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 10:56 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

>
>
> L. Iulia Aquila V. Valerio Voluso S.P.D.
>
> Here again I am concerned that, you, a cultore, would consider leaving NR.
> I do hope you stay, we need minds like yours.
> The Religio needs cultores to continue to exist, our citizens are what
> holds us together.
> I thank you for speaking up, you, Sir, have the courage of your
> convictions. I admire that, I admire you.
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Julia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Nyk Cowham <nyk@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salve Senator Sulla,
> >
> > On 7 June 2011 23:23, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
> >
> > > Hey is not just a religio thingy...he is a SENATOR...and thusly that is
> > > why
> > >
> > > he is being 86ed.
> > >
> > If my fellow coreligionist is to be "86ed" without specific
> justifications
> > and accusations provided, or due process extended, then as a simple
> matter
> > of honor I will have to reassess my own continued participation as a
> citizen
> > of NR. I don't have the years of dedicated service invested in this
> > organization (just a few months and $12). Why would I waste my time,
> effort
> > and money contributing to an organization that acts in this manner,
> risking
> > exactly the same thing happening to me down the line? By your argument I
> can
> > never participate in the cursus honorum of NR as a cultor who may wish to
> > belong to other organized bodies of cultores outside of NR.
> >
> > > You don't keep Benedict Arnold as a General in the Continental Army
> after
> > > he
> > > has been discovered trying to sell West Point to the British.
> > >
> > There was a body of evidence, charges and something other than an implied
> > guilt-by-association against Benedict Arnold. It seems to me that
> draconian
> > powers are being used here without any justification being given to the
> > people. Where is the evidence that Marcus Lucretius Agricola has said or
> > done anything to discredit Nova Roma? The people have a right to know. We
> > cultores have a right to know why the Magister Collegii of the Collegium
> > Augurum is to be deprived of his rights as a citizen.
> >
> > We need EVIDENCE. I join Iulia Aquila Pontifex in asking that specifics
> are
> > provided.
> >
> > > If he was just a regular citizen, like say...LIVIA...the Edict would
> not
> > > have been needed.
> > >
> > What ever happened to your defense of applying the same standard to ALL
> > citizens Senator? Where is your defense of consistency and concern for
> what
> > the people have a right to know? Please show that the proscribed person
> > poses an imminent threat to NR that justifies the application of this
> SCU.
> >
> > > This is NOT a black day for NR and any attempt to spin it that way is
> > > false.
> > >
> > This is a black day for me personally - because I am losing confidence in
> > the Senate and Magistrates of NR. The edict under the SCU may be legal,
> but
> > is it's application just? Perhaps this edict is fully deserved, but if it
> is
> > deserved then it should be easy to present a case for it to the people.
> So,
> > let us forestall all argument and controversy and furnish the evidence.
> >
> > Vale,
> >
> > Volusus.
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 9:00 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> >
> > > luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > L. Iulia Aquila Pontifex Consulibus Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> > > >
> > > > The "Cultus Deorum" list is an independent list of cultores and has
> no
> > > > political affiliation whatsoever. It was created before the strife
> that
> > > has
> > > > essentially become a schism. As a moderator I have not allowed any
> > > political
> > > > conversation against Nova Roma, or any other group for that matter,
> to
> > > > continue - which has been well met in the rare instance. This group
> of
> > > > cultores strictly discusses the Religio Romana and subjects
> pertaining to
> > > > it. In fact there is much to learn there for any cultore.
> > > > Without fighting, divisive arguments and fear of being berated.
> > > > To my knowledge Marcus Lucretius Agricola has not said anything
> against
> > > > Nova Roma in the independent "Cultus Deorum" list.
> > > > I may have missed it if he did as I have been too busy to frequent
> any
> > > list
> > > > and so I am asking for specifics.
> > > >
> > > > As for the "entity" he is affiliated with please specify in what
> capacity
> > > > is he affiliated.
> > > > The SCU has stripped a citizen of several years of hard earned titles
> and
> > > > accomplishments.
> > > > A citizen who in the past has done much for NR.
> > > > We, the current citizens of Nova Roma, deserve specifics regarding
> the
> > > > Scholar, Augur and Senator M. Lucretius Agricola and why we are
> taking
> > > > another step towards the lack of diversity that is so
> uncharacteristic of
> > > > ancient Rome.
> > > >
> > > > I am not contesting the SCU because that would be fruitless, I am
> however
> > > > requesting specifics (as stated above) because that is the Roman way.
> > > > Full disclosure not a bunch of vague statements.
> > > >
> > > > Losing an experienced cultore is a serious issue in Nova Roma because
> we
> > > > have become so few and of that even fewer are knowledgeable enough to
> be
> > > > examples to others.
> > > >
> > > > It is a black day whenever Nova Roma loses a cultore. I am saddened
> by
> > > this
> > > > measure. But I realize that and a couple of dollars will buy me a cup
> of
> > > > coffee.
> > > > However accountability applies to all citizens, from the newest to
> the
> > > > highest magistrates. I await your answer esteemed Consuls.
> > > >
> > > > Valete optime pacem deorum,
> > > >
> > > > L. Julia Aquila
> > > > Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis
> > > > Pontifex Novæ Romæ
> > > > Praefectus Regio Tennessee: Provincia A.Æ
> > > > Procurator: Provincia A.Æ
> > > > Sacerdos Prima A.Æ
> > > > VII Id. Iun. ‡ P. Ullerio C. Equitio coss.
>
> > > >
> > > > http://aedesvenusgenetrix.blogspot.com/
> > > > http://www.thelastenchantment.com/
> > > > Securum in tenebris me facit esse Venus
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > EX OFFICIO P. ULLERIO VENATORI C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIBUS
> > > > >
> > > > > Under the authority granted to the consuls of Nova Roma by the
> Senate
> > > of
> > > > Nova Roma in the senatus consultum ultimum regarding individuals
> holding
> > > > membership/citizenship in multiple organizations and their
> relationship
> > > to
> > > > our Respublica while members of those organizations, specifically
> that:
> > > > >
> > > > > "No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma shall be
> > > > allowed to use their her/his membership either to create, develop or
> > > promote
> > > > such competing organizations, or to act negatively towards Nova Roma,
> its
> > > > citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization and actions..."
> > > > (senatus consultum ultimam passed on a.d. IV Kal. Mar. 2764 AUC,
> Section
> > > 1)
> > > > >
> > > > > and that towards any member who does so
> > > > >
> > > > > "Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take every measure to prevent,
> avoid or
> > > > eliminate any one of the situations evoked in the article 1,
> including
> > > the
> > > > rights to refuse the admission of an applicant member, to remove a
> member
> > > of
> > > > her/his membership, to remove or deprive him/her, for a given time,
> of
> > > all
> > > > or a part of her/his rights of member and/or of her/his rights,
> powers,
> > > > privileges and honors which (s)he may hold inside Nova Roma Inc. or
> the
> > > > Republic of Nova Roma, including Article II.B of the Constitution of
> Nova
> > > > Roma."
> > > > >
> > > > > and in view of the statements made by Marcus Lucretius Agricola on
> the
> > > > "Cultus Deorum" List, and in view of the fact that he has ignored
> > > repeated
> > > > requests to resign his official position(s) in an entity formed
> > > specifically
> > > > to renounce our Respublica,
> > > > >
> > > > > we, the consuls of Nova Roma, hereby strip Marcus Lucretius
> Agricola of
> > > > his citizenship in Nova Roma, his priesthoods and any titles honors
> or
> > > > dignities he may hold in our Republic.
> > > > >
> > > > > We instruct the owners of any official Lists, religious or civil,
> of
> > > > which he may currently be a subscriber, to strike him from those
> Lists
> > > and
> > > > ban him in perpetuity from them.
> > > > >
> > > > > This edict is effective immediately upon publication.
> > > > >
> > > > > Publius Ullerius Venator
> > > > > Gaius Equitius Cato
> > > > > Consuls
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus T. Paulino consulari et omnibus SPD

Esteemed Consular Tiberius Paulinus;

It is indeed a sad day, one of the saddest ones in the history of Nova Roma. We are losing our one fully properly consecrated augur, our most senior augur, and the citizen who built most of what our web presence is today.

I must protest against this edict, as it is the only right thing to do now.

I can understand, but can not agree, if the consules strip the great M. Lucretius Agricola of his offices, out of fear from the Quintilian "RPR". It's a major weakness to be afraid instead of doubling work and activity as to achieve victory. However, since Agricola did nothing against NR, and we have never seen an unlawful act from him, WHY TO STRIP him OF HIS CITIZENSHIP? Removing his offices is a mistake and a moral error. But stripping his citizenship is a crime.

All the Gods of Rome and Nova Roma - I pray now publicly and I will never stop to pray, that be one day justice restored, and allow us to have the most excellent and deserved M. Lucretius Agricola Magister among us.

Vivat Nova Roma!

Cn. Lentulus, pontifex
legatus pro praetore


--- Mar 7/6/11, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...> ha scritto:

Da: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@...>
Oggetto: RE: [Nova-Roma] EDICT CONCERNING MARCUS LUCRETIUS AGRICOLA
A: "Nova-Roma" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com>
Data: Martedì 7 giugno 2011, 16:52
















 











Salvete



This is a sad day.



Valete



Ti. Galerius Paulinus





To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

From: catoinnyc@...

Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 13:24:33 +0000

Subject: [Nova-Roma] EDICT CONCERNING MARCUS LUCRETIUS AGRICOLA



EX OFFICIO P. ULLERIO VENATORI C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIBUS



Under the authority granted to the consuls of Nova Roma by the Senate of Nova Roma in the senatus consultum ultimum regarding individuals holding membership/citizenship in multiple organizations and their relationship to our Respublica while members of those organizations, specifically that:



"No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma shall be allowed to use their her/his membership either to create, develop or promote such competing organizations, or to act negatively towards Nova Roma, its citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization and actions..." (senatus consultum ultimam passed on a.d. IV Kal. Mar. 2764 AUC, Section 1)



and that towards any member who does so



"Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take every measure to prevent, avoid or eliminate any one of the situations evoked in the article 1, including the rights to refuse the admission of an applicant member, to remove a member of her/his membership, to remove or deprive him/her, for a given time, of all or a part of her/his rights of member and/or of her/his rights, powers, privileges and honors which (s)he may hold inside Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma, including Article II.B of the Constitution of Nova Roma."



and in view of the statements made by Marcus Lucretius Agricola on the "Cultus Deorum" List, and in view of the fact that he has ignored repeated requests to resign his official position(s) in an entity formed specifically to renounce our Respublica,



we, the consuls of Nova Roma, hereby strip Marcus Lucretius Agricola of his citizenship in Nova Roma, his priesthoods and any titles honors or dignities he may hold in our Republic.



We instruct the owners of any official Lists, religious or civil, of which he may currently be a subscriber, to strike him from those Lists and ban him in perpetuity from them.



This edict is effective immediately upon publication.



Publius Ullerius Venator

Gaius Equitius Cato

Consuls







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Avete omnes,

I have said before and say again - I think it is a dark day whenever we
lose *any* citizen, cultor or not. It is a sad thing, and it diminishes us.
The ONLY exception I have ever made to this statement is former citizen
Piscinus, who caused our fair Republic far more harm than any amount of good
he may have done could ever make up. So yes, I think it *is* a sad thing
that we lose Agricola.

Agricola is a fellow cultor and Latinist - something we can ill-afford
to lose. And my colleague in the Augurs' college - again, something we can
ill-afford to lose. So on that level, it is sad, and I am grieved.

HOWEVER - the edict forbidding a Senator of Nova Roma from being an
officer in rival organizations that seek our destruction has been known for
some time. It is my understanding that Agricola was asked that if he wished
to remain in NR, he stop consorting with our enemies. It is also my
understanding that Agricola never responded, and continued to give aid and
comfort to the enemies of NR. He had months to explain himself, defend
himself, or conform to our laws. Worse, he continued to allow our enemies
access to Nova Roma's Augurs' list, even after some of those enemies
declared their intention to see Nova Roma accursed. He chose to ignore the
situation. So his removal is just. Dura lex, sed lex.

I am genuinely sad to see Agricola expelled, more so because he could
have prevented it and chose this path. Livia can continue to spread her
conspiracy theories all she wants, but this was done openly, with due
process, and with undue generosity to Agricola - he had MONTHS to correct
the situation, time not stipulated in the original decree. It is my
understanding that he chose to waste those months.

Valete omnes,
~ Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus, Augur

On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 12:23 PM, Robert Woolwine
<robert.woolwine@...>wrote:

>
>
> Hey is not just a religio thingy...he is a SENATOR...and thusly that is why
> he is being 86ed.
>
> You don't keep Benedict Arnold as a General in the Continental Army after
> he
> has been discovered trying to sell West Point to the British.
>
> If he was just a regular citizen, like say...LIVIA...the Edict would not
> have been needed.
>
> This is NOT a black day for NR and any attempt to spin it that way is
> false.
>
> Vale,
>
> Sulla
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 9:00 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > L. Iulia Aquila Pontifex Consulibus Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> >
> > The "Cultus Deorum" list is an independent list of cultores and has no
> > political affiliation whatsoever. It was created before the strife that
> has
> > essentially become a schism. As a moderator I have not allowed any
> political
> > conversation against Nova Roma, or any other group for that matter, to
> > continue - which has been well met in the rare instance. This group of
> > cultores strictly discusses the Religio Romana and subjects pertaining to
> > it. In fact there is much to learn there for any cultore.
> > Without fighting, divisive arguments and fear of being berated.
> > To my knowledge Marcus Lucretius Agricola has not said anything against
> > Nova Roma in the independent "Cultus Deorum" list.
> > I may have missed it if he did as I have been too busy to frequent any
> list
> > and so I am asking for specifics.
> >
> > As for the "entity" he is affiliated with please specify in what capacity
> > is he affiliated.
> > The SCU has stripped a citizen of several years of hard earned titles and
> > accomplishments.
> > A citizen who in the past has done much for NR.
> > We, the current citizens of Nova Roma, deserve specifics regarding the
> > Scholar, Augur and Senator M. Lucretius Agricola and why we are taking
> > another step towards the lack of diversity that is so uncharacteristic of
> > ancient Rome.
> >
> > I am not contesting the SCU because that would be fruitless, I am however
> > requesting specifics (as stated above) because that is the Roman way.
> > Full disclosure not a bunch of vague statements.
> >
> > Losing an experienced cultore is a serious issue in Nova Roma because we
> > have become so few and of that even fewer are knowledgeable enough to be
> > examples to others.
> >
> > It is a black day whenever Nova Roma loses a cultore. I am saddened by
> this
> > measure. But I realize that and a couple of dollars will buy me a cup of
> > coffee.
> > However accountability applies to all citizens, from the newest to the
> > highest magistrates. I await your answer esteemed Consuls.
> >
> > Valete optime pacem deorum,
> >
> > L. Julia Aquila
> > Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis
> > Pontifex Novæ Romæ
> > Praefectus Regio Tennessee: Provincia A.Æ
> > Procurator: Provincia A.Æ
> > Sacerdos Prima A.Æ
> > VII Id. Iun. ‡ P. Ullerio C. Equitio coss.
> >
> > http://aedesvenusgenetrix.blogspot.com/
> > http://www.thelastenchantment.com/
> > Securum in tenebris me facit esse Venus
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > EX OFFICIO P. ULLERIO VENATORI C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIBUS
> > >
> > > Under the authority granted to the consuls of Nova Roma by the Senate
> of
> > Nova Roma in the senatus consultum ultimum regarding individuals holding
> > membership/citizenship in multiple organizations and their relationship
> to
> > our Respublica while members of those organizations, specifically that:
> > >
> > > "No member of Nova Roma Inc. or the Republic of Nova Roma shall be
> > allowed to use their her/his membership either to create, develop or
> promote
> > such competing organizations, or to act negatively towards Nova Roma, its
> > citizenry, its image and reputation, its organization and actions..."
> > (senatus consultum ultimam passed on a.d. IV Kal. Mar. 2764 AUC, Section
> 1)
> > >
> > > and that towards any member who does so
> > >
> > > "Nova Roma Inc. is empowered to take every measure to prevent, avoid or
> > eliminate any one of the situations evoked in the article 1, including
> the
> > rights to refuse the admission of an applicant member, to remove a member
> of
> > her/his membership, to remove or deprive him/her, for a given time, of
> all
> > or a part of her/his rights of member and/or of her/his rights, powers,
> > privileges and honors which (s)he may hold inside Nova Roma Inc. or the
> > Republic of Nova Roma, including Article II.B of the Constitution of Nova
> > Roma."
> > >
> > > and in view of the statements made by Marcus Lucretius Agricola on the
> > "Cultus Deorum" List, and in view of the fact that he has ignored
> repeated
> > requests to resign his official position(s) in an entity formed
> specifically
> > to renounce our Respublica,
> > >
> > > we, the consuls of Nova Roma, hereby strip Marcus Lucretius Agricola of
> > his citizenship in Nova Roma, his priesthoods and any titles honors or
> > dignities he may hold in our Republic.
> > >
> > > We instruct the owners of any official Lists, religious or civil, of
> > which he may currently be a subscriber, to strike him from those Lists
> and
> > ban him in perpetuity from them.
> > >
> > > This edict is effective immediately upon publication.
> > >
> > > Publius Ullerius Venator
> > > Gaius Equitius Cato
> > > Consuls
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

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