Cato Voluso sal.

I am glad that it is understood to be perfectly legal. I am curious as to why even an eyebrow would be raised (archly, no doubt).

It is therefore even more puzzling that both you and Iulia seem to believe that a "very big stink could be made" (your words) unless this stink would only serve the purpose of demagoguery and bluster.

This has perennially been a bete noir of Nova Roma's public life - the seeming inability to refrain from making statements like that, without actual purpose or function other than to create a stir.

I will always champion the right of our citizens to speak freely, yet it equally always amazes me that otherwise seemingly intelligent people insist on dragging discourse down for the sheer perverse pleasure of doing so.

Vale bene, and IO SATURNALIA!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Cowham <nykcowham@...> wrote:
>
> Volusus Catoni S.P.D.
>
> It is more a political "eyebrow raiser", rather than a legal issue. If it
> the edictum was not legal I would have cited exactly how I thought so. As
> it stands, this edict is within your current prerogatives as consul. In
> times past it would have caused a "stink", but the end result would be the
> same, that it is legal and valid. So what's the point of arguing for the
> sake of argument and political point-scoring?
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Volusus
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Cato Iuliae Volususque SPD
> >
> > Pray tell what "legal" objection might be found?
> >
> > Valete bene,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Cowham <nykcowham@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Iulia,
> > >
> > > You actually express my own sentiments concerning this edict, almost
> > > exactly. A very big stink could be made, and in better times such a stink
> > > would be made. However, like you, I don't think it serves anyone's
> > interest
> > > right now to put up any opposition to this. I am not inclined to point
> > out
> > > the obvious flaws. I have been chewing on this all day and conclude that
> > > cooperation is more prudent right now. However, reliance on the prudence
> > > and good-will of others should not be taken for granted or abused.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Volusus
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:11 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> > > luciaiuliaaquila@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Iulia Cato cos. Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> > > >
> > > > I am allowing myself some amusement in this Edict. A few chuckles
> > actually
> > > > as i think of such a post, such a edict, being posted in years past. It
> > > > would have taken on a life of its own.
> > > > Today you can hear a pin drop.
> > > > However, in order to save NR we must have a modicum of cooperation, and
> > > > this stands as a way to that means, so i shall reserve any legal
> > objection.
> > > >
> > > > VIVAT NOVA ROMA
> > > >
> > > > Vale, et valete
> > > >
> > > > Julia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
> > > > >
> > > > > In view of the fact that Cornelius Sulla wishes to offer his
> > services to
> > > > the Respublica in a magisterial office, and that he took an oath to
> > resign
> > > > as CFO if he ran for office, I will consider him officially resigned as
> > > > CFO, thus fulfilling his oath to the Senate.
> > > > >
> > > > > In view of his expertise and intimate and ongoing knowledge of our
> > > > finanncial situation, in view of the authority vested in me by the
> > > > Constitution of Nova Roma to, as consul, "issue those edicta (edicts)
> > > > necessary to engage in those tasks which advance the mission and
> > function
> > > > of Nova Roma" (Const. N.R. IV.2.b),
> > > > >
> > > > > EX OFFICIO C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIS
> > > > >
> > > > > I hereby appoint Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix as interim CFO of Nova
> > > > Roma, Inc. until and unless either the Senate of Nova Roma or future
> > > > consuls find necessary to relieve him of those duties.
> > > > >
> > > > > Given by my hand this a.d. XVIII Kal. Ian. P. Ullerio Venatori C.
> > Equiti
> > > > Catoni coss.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Cato Iuliae Aquilae sal.

LOL yes indeed, and I have raised my own brow (archly) at Volusus :)

Vale bene and IO SATURNALIA!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>
> Iulia Catoni sal,
>
> I was waxing nostalgic and thinking of what stir the edict would have caused in years past with legal objections, most of which went no where.
> And the difference of this election where we are finally coming together in cooperation - and could this be part of the modern mos maiorum.
>
> Merry Christmas Season Consul!
>
> Vale bene,
>
> Julia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> >
> > Cato Iuliae Volususque SPD
> >
> > Pray tell what "legal" objection might be found?
> >
> > Valete bene,
> >
> > Cato
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Cowham <nykcowham@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Salve Iulia,
> > >
> > > You actually express my own sentiments concerning this edict, almost
> > > exactly. A very big stink could be made, and in better times such a stink
> > > would be made. However, like you, I don't think it serves anyone's interest
> > > right now to put up any opposition to this. I am not inclined to point out
> > > the obvious flaws. I have been chewing on this all day and conclude that
> > > cooperation is more prudent right now. However, reliance on the prudence
> > > and good-will of others should not be taken for granted or abused.
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > >
> > > Volusus
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:11 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> > > luciaiuliaaquila@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Iulia Cato cos. Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> > > >
> > > > I am allowing myself some amusement in this Edict. A few chuckles actually
> > > > as i think of such a post, such a edict, being posted in years past. It
> > > > would have taken on a life of its own.
> > > > Today you can hear a pin drop.
> > > > However, in order to save NR we must have a modicum of cooperation, and
> > > > this stands as a way to that means, so i shall reserve any legal objection.
> > > >
> > > > VIVAT NOVA ROMA
> > > >
> > > > Vale, et valete
> > > >
> > > > Julia
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
> > > > >
> > > > > In view of the fact that Cornelius Sulla wishes to offer his services to
> > > > the Respublica in a magisterial office, and that he took an oath to resign
> > > > as CFO if he ran for office, I will consider him officially resigned as
> > > > CFO, thus fulfilling his oath to the Senate.
> > > > >
> > > > > In view of his expertise and intimate and ongoing knowledge of our
> > > > finanncial situation, in view of the authority vested in me by the
> > > > Constitution of Nova Roma to, as consul, "issue those edicta (edicts)
> > > > necessary to engage in those tasks which advance the mission and function
> > > > of Nova Roma" (Const. N.R. IV.2.b),
> > > > >
> > > > > EX OFFICIO C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIS
> > > > >
> > > > > I hereby appoint Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix as interim CFO of Nova
> > > > Roma, Inc. until and unless either the Senate of Nova Roma or future
> > > > consuls find necessary to relieve him of those duties.
> > > > >
> > > > > Given by my hand this a.d. XVIII Kal. Ian. P. Ullerio Venatori C. Equiti
> > > > Catoni coss.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> >
>

A. Liburnius Hadrianus Liviae Plautae atque Cornelio Sullae SPD.

This difference of opinions is similar to the difference of opinion as to the pronounciation of the word tomato...

A controller and a comptroller are different spellings of the same word. Even the pronunciation used to be also the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controller
indicates that a "comptroller" is a "controller" by profession.

The American Heritage Dictionary at:
http://www.yourdictionary.com/comptroller
defines comptroller as variant of controller.

While there is a modern tendency, in the business world, to pronounce comptroller phonetically (as much as it is possible in English...), there should be no argument about the fact that we are dealing with a pair of synonymes.

Valete,
ALH

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave!
>
> Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comptroller
> http://comptroller.defense.gov/
> http://www.comptroller.nyc.gov/
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 12:44 PM, L. Livia Plauta <livia.plauta@...>wrote:
>
> > Salve Sulla,
> > what you say is called a controller in my dictionary.
> >
> > Vale,
> > Livia
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Robert Woolwine" <robert.woolwine@...>
> > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 4:09 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] QQs Re: Candidacy for Consul
> >
> >
> > Ave!
> >
> > No, Livia, a Comptroller is one of the most important business functions an
> > individual can have. They are responsible that a business is able to
> > function by making sure the bills are paid on time, employees are paid on
> > time, taxes are paid on time. When there are disputes with bills that they
> > get resolved with vendors. And value added benefits can be given to the
> > employees like health insurance, 401k, optional insurance can be done -
> > they all go through my position. I am also the shield that protects my
> > boss, the President of the Company. I am the layer in our company that
> > allows her, and I, to find ways for the company to run more efficiently,
> > more profitably and to minimize risk. It is a position that requires
> > absolute trust in someone, and I can state with absolute confidence, given
> > that I am the only individual who is not related to the family that owns
> > Skyce Steel, that I have the absolute trust of my boss in running Skyce
> > Steel.
> >
> > I hope I answered your question.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 6:43 AM, L. Livia Plauta
> > <livia.plauta@...>wrote:
> >
> > > Salve Sulla,
> > > is a "Comptroller" someone who trolls using a computer?
> > >
> > > Vale,
> > > Livia
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Robert Woolwine" <robert.woolwine@...>
> > > To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
> > > Sent: Saturday, December 17, 2011 3:23 AM
> > > Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] QQs Re: Candidacy for Consul
> > >
> > >
> > > Ave!
> > >
> > > Warning this might be a long post.. Please bear with me.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 10:58 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> > > luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > L. Iulia Aquila L. Cornelio Sullae omnibusque S.P.D.
> > > >
> > > > Do you have any professional macro qualifications for the office you
> > > seek?
> > > >
> > > Yes. I have been a Comptroller for Skyce Steel Inc for over 6 years.
> > > During that time I have been responsible for the finances of a
> > > multimillion
> > > dollar construction company handling all aspects of finances, human
> > > resources and internal office management for the company. I am also the
> > > only corporate officer that is not related to the family. Besides the
> > > President of the Company, I know every facet related to the finances of
> > > the
> > > company. I have resolved and still work with the IRS in regards to tax
> > > disputers as well.
> > >
> > > I have also been a college professor teaching primarily business related
> > > classes and in the past couple of years introduction to college classes
> > > for
> > > working adults.
> > >
> > > I have a Masters Degree in Education, Business, a Bachelors Degree in
> > > Political Science with an emphasis in Public Administration and an
> > > Associates Degree in Paralegal studies.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Do you have any prior macro experience in a related field or skills
> > that
> > > > will be useful in the office you seek?
> > > >
> > >
> > > I think I answered that above. :)
> > >
> > >
> > > > What is your prior macro work experience?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Also, answered above, but if you would like a detailed list of specific
> > > job requirements I do, here is just a brief snippet from my resume:
> > >
> > > WORK HISTORY***Comptroller, Skyce Steel – January 2006 – to Present*
> > >
> > > - A/R & A/P Duties – Entering Invoices in QuickBooks & Peachtree,
> > > calendaring payments, track projects.
> > > - Development of Various reports: Aging, Balance sheet, Income
> > > Statements
> > > - Completion of Tax Documents – State and Federal
> > > - Vendor and Project reconciliations – Resolving financial
> > > discrepancies.
> > > - Commercial Collections
> > > - Customer Service
> > > - Calendar Management Responsibilities for Owners
> > > - Payroll Duties – Job Tracking, Entering and maintaining Payroll
> > files,
> > > process and approve raises.
> > > - Human Resources Duties: New Hire Orientation-Entering Employee
> > > Information
> > > - Benefits Analysis - Investigate and negotiate Health Insurance
> > > Benefits
> > > - Technical Support Duties – repair, upgrade and purchase PCs and Macs
> > > (Hardware and software)
> > > - Track various construction projects
> > > - Development of various databases for project management, collections
> > > consolidation, aging reports.
> > > - Various office duties. – Filing, Faxing, Front office.
> > >
> > > This does not count the special projects, project tracking for
> > > construction, preliens and legal interactions I have contact with on a
> > > regular basis or the IRS. ;) Just the basics.
> > >
> > >
> > > > What are your strengths?
> > > >
> > > I have a complete and utter drive to accomplish my goals. I am loyal,
> > > dedicated and competent.
> > >
> > >
> > > > What are your weaknesses (attendance, work history, knowledge deficit
> > > etc)
> > > > and how do you plan to surmount them?
> > > >
> > >
> > > I am completely and utterly driven to accomplish my goals. The easiest
> > > way
> > > I see to overcome them is constant re-assessment in my actions to
> > > determine
> > > and make sure I do not overreach. This year, as I have stated is a make
> > > or
> > > break it year for NR. If we (the magistrates who get elected) do this
> > > right, we wont have to have another year like this, hopefully EVER in NR.
> > > The Finances will be humming along, growth will begin to happen and we
> > can
> > > turn NR back to the focus on ancient Rome to the advancement of our own
> > > knowledge base, credibility for the organization, proliferation of local
> > > groups and local events. We simply cannot do that until the house is in
> > > order.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Can you tell me of a time in your macro work experience when you had to
> > > > overcome major obstacles towards a successful end?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Do you prefer something recent or not? ;) As a corporate officer I am
> > > responsible and accountable for all kinds of things from insurance audits
> > > to obtaining health insurance in the most cost effective way while giving
> > > our employees the best benefits I can get them. It is a balancing act to
> > > say the least. But, I manage to make it work under the fiscal
> > constraints
> > > that I have to work with. In my first professional job, at Cal Baptist,
> > > I
> > > was in charge of a bidding process to build the college's first IT lab.
> > I
> > > was 23 or 24 years old at the time, it was a multi-million dollar project
> > > and to state that it was a huge responsibility using a good chunk of the
> > > college's assets at the time is an understatement. I did presentations
> > to
> > > my direct supervisors, the College President and the Board of Trustees.
> > > Based on my research, examination and presentation the college built its
> > > first computer lab and since then they have built at least 3 more both
> > > within the college and with local extension campus's.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > What is your experience in Nova Roma that qualifies for the office you
> > > > seek?
> > > >
> > > Directly, I have served as Consul twice for the Res Publica. Beyond that
> > > I
> > > have held just about every political post NR offers. But beyond that, I
> > > have also served as CFO of the Corporation (and am acting CFO presently).
> > > I already know what needs to be done and how to do it. I just need to be
> > > empowered, with the necessary authority, to get it done. Then I can get
> > > NR's accounts audited and reported to the Senate and set up the necessary
> > > procedures for the CFO to operate in a fluid manner with adequate
> > controls
> > > and oversight by the Senate.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Have you taken classes or engaged in further study, apprentices etc. in
> > > > the office you seek?
> > > >
> > > My further study has been done by direct hands on experience by serving
> > as
> > > advisor to previous magistrates (like many of us were) with Consul
> > > Albucius
> > > during his tumultuous consulship. And, during his time as Censor scribe
> > > until appointed CFO - after that I gave up each position (Praetura scribe
> > > and Censor scribe) in compliance to the Senatus Consulta.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Do you feel you have the temperament for political office?
> > > >
> > > Everyone is going to say yes to this answer. ;) I don't know anyone who
> > > is running for office who does not believe that lack the temperament to
> > > run
> > > for political office.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Are you able to set your needs, your own self interest and emotions,
> > > aside
> > > > for the needs of the respublica and her citizens?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Again, I believe everyone is going to say yes to this answer. Each
> > > citizen
> > > will have to judge based on the actions and words (I personally believe
> > > actions are more important) of each candidate to determine who would best
> > > be able to address the needs of the Respublica.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I ask the following questions with the understanding that concepts like
> > > > values and culture can be subjective and difficult to define however it
> > > is
> > > > important, particularly the state that Nova Roma is in now, that we
> > > > elect
> > > > candidates whose work ethic, motivations, and methods are in concert
> > > > with
> > > > the mos maiorum:
> > > > What does the mos maiorum mean to you?
> > > >
> > > Hehehe, I know your asking this question to everyone, but you really need
> > > me to answer it? ;) (Just seeing if your paying attention still! )
> > > Look,
> > > people like Scholastica might view the boni as the boogeyman of Nova Roma
> > > but as a founder of what was once the boni I can state that our entire
> > > purpose was to keep Nova Roma as close to the ancients as possible. This
> > > meant following as close as we can, to the Mos Maiorum of the ancients
> > > whenever we possibly could. For example, not running for same offices
> > > consecutively - this would be frowned upon by the ancients. Especially
> > in
> > > the Early and Middle Republic! There are plenty of other examples, but I
> > > expect an uproar from even mentioning the boni word by certain quarters
> > of
> > > citizens. Knowing that the boni have ceased to exist from 2004 to
> > present
> > > does not mean that I disavow my part in the organization. I still stand
> > > by
> > > our ideals, as both a former bonus and a Nova Roman.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Will you adhere to and promote the mos mairoum (within reasonable
> > > > modernity) in Nova Roma without your own self interests testing these
> > > > "time
> > > > honored principles"?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Absolutely, I think the one complaint no one has ever issued about me was
> > > a
> > > disregard to the Mos Maiorum.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Can you give me one measure you plan to take to promote fiscal
> > solvency?
> > > >
> > > Everything I intend to do has to deal with promoting the fiscal solvency
> > > of
> > > Nova Roma. My primary immediate role has to focus on the capital
> > > preservation of existing Nova Roman assets. That would be the greatest
> > > role I have in regards to promoting Nova Roma fiscal solvency. Once that
> > > is completed, confirmed and published then we can move towards meeting
> > our
> > > immediate bills and then to work on the most important aspect, which
> > would
> > > be growth. By the end of the year, I know I can get NR structured in a
> > > way
> > > that the first two mandatory steps (capital preservation and meeting our
> > > bills) will be completed and then we can assess the various ideas and
> > > suggestions I have been given from Paulinus and others with regards to
> > > growing our treasury.
> > >
> > > Have you detailed plan in writing for us to review?
> > > >
> > > More than what I have already discussed previously? I have some sample
> > > Senatus Consulta that I have near completion that I have sent to the
> > > Consuls. I have some thoughts and suggestions that must be done. If
> > > Fabius is elected Censor it is my intention to drive out to California
> > > (taking a Friday off of work) and met up with Fabius at Bank of America
> > > and
> > > having both the Secretary of the Corporation and the President of the
> > > Corporation present armed with the Senatus Consulta regarding the signers
> > > in hand change the signers of the bank account at that time and acquire
> > > bank statements for the past 2 or 3 years so that I can then audit the
> > > accounts in question once back in Arizona. With this regard, I hope that
> > > Senator and Pontiff Q. Fabius earns and is entrusted with one of the two
> > > Censors seats.
> > >
> > > > What changes in spending and/or taxes do you support?
> > > >
> > > I have already posted on this a while ago. I advocated a progressive tax
> > > structure. This was the first year Nova Roma has had this structure in
> > > existence. In my professional opinion it went well. I plan to keep the
> > > same structure in place for the coming year. Thus new citizens and non-
> > > office serving citizens paying a lower rate while they get their feet wet
> > > in learning the organization and the best why they can participate and
> > > grow
> > > in the organization. Besides I am a HUGE believer in leading by example
> > > and believe that those of us who are leaders of the organization should
> > > pay
> > > more! We lead by example!
> > >
> > >
> > > > How well do you know NR leges?
> > > >
> > > Pretty damn well. I have written many of the leges in the Tabularium,
> > > heck, I got passed the Senatus Consulta that named the Tabularium after
> > > the
> > > Tabularim that my namesake, Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, Dictator of
> > > Rome,
> > > had built.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Have you taken a course on Roman Law such as the one in AT (I have a
> > > > copy)?
> > > >
> > >
> > > No, I never supported the AT.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Do you feel you know Roman law well enough to be competent without
> > being
> > > > coached?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Yes.
> > >
> > >
> > > > Do you have the support of one or two of our Nova Roma legal "experts"
> > > and
> > > > could you take the advice without taking it personally or thinking you
> > > are
> > > > being sabotaged or some such?
> > > >
> > > Yes, absolutely. I am always willing to debate, argue and learn from
> > > anyone interested. :)
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Can you tell me of a time when you had to overcome major obstacles
> > > towards
> > > > a successful end?
> > > >
> > > I would have to use the same examples I posted above. Each of those
> > > projects I saw through completion. Even the IRS audit my company went
> > > through I have seen through to completion.
> > >
> > >
> > > > What do you see is your biggest challenge in the next year?
> > > >
> > > Education of the citizens, getting the complacency that has plagued NR
> > > out. Changing the corporate culture of the Senate from one of near
> > > complacency to one of interaction and involvement. This is the lead by
> > > example precept that I think is absolutely essential. If the People see
> > > the senate lead and become more active then it will trickle down to the
> > > population.
> > >
> > > > What do you see in the immediate future of Nova Roma. Immediate plans,
> > > > STG, LTG, 10 years, 20 years in the future?
> > > >
> > > Oh Gosh, alot of hard work! :) One can answer this question in various
> > > ways. It really depends on what direction both the Senate and People
> > want
> > > to go. If Caesar and I are able to successfully implement our ideas and
> > > suggestions then sky's the limits, literally. Because the organization
> > > will have a sound foundation and will get back on the path of growth,
> > > credibility and one of the key sources of conflict will be resolved and
> > > blended together - combining both the corporate and the Roman Government
> > > structure in a workable seamless way. I am not going to lie to anyone.
> > > Nova Roma will have a future if both the citizens and Senate show a
> > > willingness to work hard for Nova Roma. To develop means to retain
> > > citizens, to create an environment where everyone who has whatever
> > > interest
> > > can find a place to exercise their interest. If both the citizens and
> > > Senate are complacent no matter the magistrates NR will just linger on
> > the
> > > sea with no direction, guidance or goals. And, that is what I want to
> > > prevent from happening.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Scenario: You are elected. What is the first project, first on your
> > > > agenda, that you will attend to?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Just one? ;) My primary focus would be on getting NR's fiscal house in
> > > order. If, Fabius is elected, I will immediately schedule either the
> > > second or third Friday off in January to make a trip to California to
> > meet
> > > up with Fabius for both of us to go to Bank of America and represent Nova
> > > Roma as both the Secretary and President of the Corporation to implment
> > > the
> > > Senate's Senatus Consulta regarding the signers of the account and then
> > to
> > > acquire the bank statements of all of Nova Roma's bank accounts for the
> > > past 2-3 years and then begin my detailed audit of NR's finances to
> > > determine the state of NR's treasury. I would then prepare a report to
> > > the
> > > Senate and the People of Nova Roma and have a copy of my analysis posted
> > > on
> > > the website. That would be my first project.
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Finally: If you find, after attempting to resolve a detrimental
> > > > situation
> > > > such as illness, that you will not be able to continue to fulfill the
> > > > duties of your office will you resign in a dignified manner or just
> > > > disappear only reappearing to tell us you have not gone?
> > > >
> > > I would resign.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Thank you so very much for standing as a candidate!
> > > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for your questions.
> > >
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
> > > Sulla
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Vale, et valete optime
> > > >
> > > > L. Julia Aquila
> > > >
> > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@
> > ...>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Avete Omnes,
> > > > >
> > > > > It is with utmost sincerity and respect that today I declare my
> > > > > intention
> > > > > to run for Consul of Nova Roma.
> > > > >
> > > > > Many of you know me from the jokes on the Back Alley, to my
> > > > > argumentative
> > > > > self in the ML and Senate...to one who has actually tried to help
> > > create
> > > > a
> > > > > Roman community in Arizona. My goals have always been to bring a
> > > > > degree
> > > > of
> > > > > professionalism and credibility to the organization in every facet.
> > To
> > > > > that end, I was recently appointed CFO of Nova Roma with charge of
> > > > gaining
> > > > > control of NR's fiances - a progress that is still ongoing.
> > > > >
> > > > > In case anyone, or our newer citizens not familiar with me or my
> > > history
> > > > > and background in Nova Roma I will just briefly state that I have
> > been
> > > > > in
> > > > > Nova Roma from the first day of existence. I had to surface mail my
> > > > > application way back in 1998. I have held the positions of Quaestor,
> > > > > Praetor, Consul (twice), Censor. I have been a Lictor for over 10
> > > years.
> > > > > I have been a Senator for years as well. I have served as Governor of
> > > > > California, served various other roles as scribes/assistants to
> > > > > various
> > > > > magistrates during my tenure in NR and most recently it has been an
> > > > > honor
> > > > > to serve as Chief Financial Officer of the Corporation.
> > > > >
> > > > > In the coming year, as I have stated recently, I believe that Nova
> > > > > Roma
> > > > is
> > > > > at a crossroads, a clear fork the road and has a few directions that
> > > > > he
> > > > can
> > > > > end up following. Nova Roma can go in a direction where it can
> > fulfill
> > > > its
> > > > > potential, based on the vision established by its Founders Marcus
> > > > > Cassius
> > > > > and Flavius Vedius. It can be something real, something tangible,
> > > > > something that can be a light and an adornment to society. Something
> > > > > we
> > > > > and the world can strive to achieve both in a personal level and in
> > an
> > > > > organizational level. This can be achieved! I believe it.....But the
> > > > > only
> > > > > way it can be achieved, ladies and gentlemen is if we not just wish
> > it
> > > > so,
> > > > > but if we apply our efforts to make it so. And, I believe that I am
> > > > > one
> > > > of
> > > > > the few people in Nova Roma who have the drive.....the force of
> > > > > nature....to help make that happen.
> > > > >
> > > > > The reason I have made this drastic decision for two fundamental
> > > > > reasons.
> > > > > First, the completion of the process of the control of finances is
> > > > > absolutely paramount. This will be facilitated to completion if I
> > > > combined
> > > > > both positions CFO and President of the Corporation. This, along with
> > > > > the
> > > > > hope that whoever is appointed Censor, if they reside close to
> > > > > Arizona,
> > > > > will be able to have this concluded in less than a month. The other
> > > > issues
> > > > > would be utilizing the treasury to pay for Nova Roma's bills. At this
> > > > > present time, every bill that I receive, for example a bill from our
> > > > > Registered Agent, must be approved by the Senate. The CFO has no
> > > > > discretionary authority to cut a check without the approval of the
> > > > Senate -
> > > > > and so far I have not paid any bill that has not been approved by the
> > > > > Senate (votingplace.net being a key example). This is inefficient,
> > > > > stressful, and unlike any corporation that I have been involved with.
> > > > Bills
> > > > > need to get paid, and while I have submitted a disbursement
> > > > > procedure -
> > > > it
> > > > > has not yet been presented to the Senate. And, I would continue to
> > > > > professionalize both the CFO position and the organization.
> > > > >
> > > > > The second primary reason is a strong belief that Nova Roma is in
> > > > desperate
> > > > > need for reform. I had the distinct honor of helping my friend Cn
> > > Iulius
> > > > > Caesar in his paper. He and I have seen eye to eye on the need for
> > > > > reformation in Nova Roma. As friends we have been involved in many
> > > > debates
> > > > > and issues. We don't always agree and sometimes he has to work hard
> > to
> > > > > convince me of his position, and sometimes I have to do the same. The
> > > > > Consulship benefits best from when two people with a proven track
> > > > > reord
> > > > of
> > > > > friendship, mutual respect and ability join forces. However, just
> > > > > because
> > > > > Caesar is my friend would not stop me from putting the brakes on him
> > > > > if
> > > > > I
> > > > > thought he was wrong. I know he would do the same with me. We both
> > > > > have
> > > > the
> > > > > maturity to know duty comes first and even if we differ, our
> > > > > friendship
> > > > is
> > > > > stronger than a temporary disagreement.
> > > > >
> > > > > Together, I believe that Caesar and I would stand the best chance in
> > > > > pursuing and executing the necessary reforms and putting NR on a more
> > > > solid
> > > > > base and more steady course. A course that would provide real
> > > incentives
> > > > > for individuals who have a desire to serve, while establishing a
> > > > > strong
> > > > > base where some aspects, like the finances, need
> > > > > to be centralized and other facets of the organization could benefit
> > > > > from
> > > > > decentralization. Examples include having governors involved in the
> > > > > citizenship application process, with the Censors. Creating an
> > > incentive
> > > > > for involvement in local groups, establishment and controls of
> > > > > provincial
> > > > > treasuries.
> > > > >
> > > > > As you can see, my primary focus in regards to the consulship will
> > > focus
> > > > on
> > > > > the corporate side. I believe this is absolutely essential. Once the
> > > > > Corporate side is organized, secure and that foundation is firmly
> > > > > established then NR can take the necessary steps in rebuilding its
> > > > > credibility in all areas (Reenactment organizations, academic
> > > > organizations
> > > > > and in the internet community). The primary point is to establish the
> > > > > foundation from which Nova Roma can be re-launched as a solid and
> > > > > healthy
> > > > > organization. Working with Mr. Ainsworth, Nova Roma's registered
> > agent
> > > I
> > > > > intend to work towards simplifying our laws, compliant with Maine,
> > and
> > > a
> > > > > greater degree of transparency. Toward that end, I am always
> > available
> > > > via
> > > > > the following methods of contact:
> > > > >
> > > > > My address is: 7644 S 64th Lane, Laveen, AZ 85339 - if anyone wishes
> > > > > to
> > > > > mail me.
> > > > > My phone number is 480-567-2265 (cell)
> > > > > My email address is: robert.woolwine@ or
> > > > > robert.woolwine@ or robertcw72@ (all addresses
> > > > > are checked regularly)
> > > > > ICQ: 2122309
> > > > > Yahoo IM: robertcw72
> > > > >
> > > > > Finally, I would like to thank everyone who has taken an interest to
> > > > > volunteer their time to help make Nova Roma a better place. You have
> > > > > my
> > > > > respect and appreciation.
> > > > >
> > > > > If anyone has ideas, suggestions, criticisms - My door would always
> > be
> > > > open.
> > > > >
> > > > > Respectfully,
> > > > >
> > > > > Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

In a message dated 12/15/2011 11:55:56 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
fororom@... writes:

and the other has plenty
(though not in the censura itself), but seems to lack certain qualities one
should see in the censura.

You are right. I'm not a stuck up prude. I don't view Rome through a
Victorian lens, nor do I express my hatred of beliefs through veiled attacks
on persons who I don't agree with. You on the other hand Senator do these
very things in abundance. And we have numerous examples of your inability
to get along even cooperate with those who are supposed to be your friends.
It is campaign season. Game On!

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Dexter A. Tulliae Scholasticae Quiritibus s.p.d.,

> ATS: Could you please explain why my (so-called) official

NR calendar (from a previous year) says that we also may not begin private activities on dies nefasti? That is one of the reasons why I delayed my announcement, for the 14th was ater and nefastus, and my calendar says that the 15th was nefastus publicus, which I thought also prohibited beginning private activities. That is why Cato extended the time in his original edict (but seems to have forgotten about this until reminded by The Man With the Plan, Caesar).

The ater dies and the nefastus dies is not the same thing.

1- Atri dies are the days following the Kalends, Nones and Ides. On those days it is encouraged to not begin any activities.

2- Nefasti dies are days consacred to the gods. On those days "secular activities" are not allowed, except these that you cannot delay. If you search on the scholars, as Varro, which are those secular activities prohibited, you have to yoke the oxen, clip the vines. Those days too you cannot convene the comitia, nor the praetor may give judgement.

The announcement of a candidacy is not an activity. It is not an edict, nor a judgement. A magistrate is not allowed to publish a report, a decree, but a candidate is not yet a magistrate and he may announce his candidacy when he wants. If he did it on an "ater dies" he tempts the fortune, but as private individual he does not fail.

Only magistrates, priests and all who have public activity, being a part of the city, has to strictly follow the nature of the days, because they represent the city/nation towards the gods. So if they do not respect the character of the days, they put the city in danger with the pax deorum. But as private individual, if you act against the character of the days, you are responsible of, and you deal that with the gods.

> > 3- During the night, the character of the day does not work.

>>> ATS: Oh? The nights don¹t count? This is very interesting. If a day (during the time the sun is up) is, say, nefastus, the night need not be? Does the night have any character at all? <<<

The character of the days is for the day, id est from the sunrise to the sunset. For example the days with the character EN are cut in two part, in fact they are Fasti in the middle. Nefasti on the morning to kill the offering and again Nefasti on the evening to burn the sacrifice. Between these two moments the day is Fastus, Fastus and not Comitialis because the comitia always begin on the morning.

The nights have no characters.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XV Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

In a message dated 12/16/2011 10:50:56 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
luciaiuliaaquila@... writes:

Can you tell me of a time in your macro work experience when you had to
overcome major obstacles towards a successful end?

QFM: I'm a producer in the entertainment field. I also own a community
newspaper. Every project has obstacles that must be overcome. As an example
at my holiday party last week our DJ was stuck on the I-60 after a tanker
truck exploded. I had to improvise, find a new system, bring in christmas
music from my own Library and do it the 30 minutes before the party started.
I had the new system in place 5 minutes after the party started.



What is your experience in Nova Roma that qualifies for the office you
seek? Have you taken classes or engaged in further study, apprentices etc. in
the office you seek?
QFM: Censor is my last stop on Cursus Honorium. I have been involved in
the study of Rome 31 years.
Censor Sabinus will stay on as Accencis in the Censor Magistracy.


Do you feel you have the temperament for political office? Are you able to
set your needs, your own self interest and emotions, aside for the needs
of the respublica and her citizens?
QFM Been doing it since Oct 1998, when I joined Nova Roma.



I ask the following questions with the understanding that concepts like
values and culture can be subjective and difficult to define however it is
important, particularly the state that Nova Roma is in now, that we elect
candidates whose work ethic, motivations, and methods are in concert with the
mos maiorum:
What does the mos maiorum mean to you? Will you adhere to and promote the
mos mairoum (within reasonable modernity) in Nova Roma without your own
self interests testing these "time honored principles"?
QFM: The mos maiorum (customs of our ancestors -Cicero) in Nova Roma has
always been in flux. Not only are we tied to a corporate structure but we
have not had enough time to develop our own tradition. The Roman mos
maiorum is substituted. It was best summed up by Posidonius Ambassador to Rome
describing Romans to his fellow Rhodians: "They are modest, frugal, follow
the Law, respect the rights of all. They live a simple life, devoid of
luxuries and worship their Gods piously. They are fierce in war, but righteous
in peace."
We can use some of those qualities in the XXI century but not all.



Can you give me one measure you plan to take to promote fiscal solvency?
QFM: Hmmm. Avoid paying 15,000 USD for a website?


Have you detailed plan in writing for us to review? What changes in
spending and/or taxes do you support?

As a Censor? Huh? As a Senator, I'd like to see the following:

25 USD dues for all citizens who wish to be part of the francise.

50 USD dues for all Senators. At least we would have some financial
qualification for the marble bench.

Unless we actually start getting serious money into our treasury, this
project will remain an on-line pipe dream. But as Censor, I'd have nothing to
do with that. That would be in the hands of the Consuls.


How well do you know NR leges?
QFM: Having proposed, written and debated a lot of them, quite a lot.

Have you taken a course on Roman Law such as the one in AT (I have a
copy)?

QFM: Of course. At the UC in my classic classes. I wrote the first NR
law code before the current and flawed L. Salica was adopted.

Do you feel you know Roman law well enough to be competent without being
coached? Do you have the support of one or two of our Nova Roma legal
"experts" and could you take the advice without taking it personally or thinking
you are being sabotaged or some such?


QFM: My knowledge of Roman Law seems not as important as knowledge of the
Constitution and how the citizen approval process works.

Can you tell me of a time when you had to overcome major obstacles towards
a successful end? What do you see is your biggest challenge in the next
year?

QFM: Staying in NR after constantly attacked by the so-called Moravian
faction. They had accused me of attempted murder, running a brothel, being
sexist, being gay, lying, and other crimes. Guess what? I'm here and they
are all gone. As for challenges, we must restructure the Senate with
people interested in making Nova Roma grow, LEGALLY, not people interested in
their century points and being "besties" with people in positions of power
within the government, or those using NR as a money making oppertunity.


What do you see in the immediate future of Nova Roma. Immediate plans, STG,
LTG, 10 years, 20 years in the future?

QFM: 10 years, a larger treasury due to less expenditure and higher dues.
20 years? Our land purchase.

Scenario: You are elected. What is the first project, first on your
agenda, that you will attend to?


QFM: Updating the Senate Rolls. Returning those unfairly removed.

Finally: If you find, after attempting to resolve a detrimental situation
such as illness, that you will not be able to continue to fulfill the
duties of your office will you resign in a dignified manner or just disappear
only reappearing to tell us you have not gone?


QFM: I have never resigned from anything in my life. As for illness, my
father died while I was Consul. I continued Nova Roma business from my
laptop next to his death bed.
My Co-Consul Marcus Minicius Audens was a large help during that time.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Valerio Voleso salutem,

> In conclusion, there is nothing at all disingenuous about my endorsements and I stand by them.

As you are a tribune of the Plebs, you have access to the tribune archives, and if you have time you can find in the archives the prooves and the evidences of my activity the year when I was tribune. I began with the late Senate reporting of the previous tribunes. Make a report of a Senate meeting in which you were absent is something very hard for beginning his tribune duties. :o)

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XV Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

Ave!

My responses are blow - This will be a long reply but it is important:

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 2:05 PM, C. Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> C. Maria Caeca L. Cornelio Sullae Felici Senatori S. P. D.
>
> I have read your declaration of candidacy with more than little interest,
> Senator, and I have a few questions. I have quoted below the pertinent
> part
> of your statement for my purposes, and would appreciate your responses.
>
> " .hope that whoever is appointed Censor, if they reside close to Arizona,
>
> will be able to have this concluded in less than a month. The other issues
>
> would be utilizing the treasury to pay for Nova Roma's bills. At this
>
> present time, every bill that I receive, for example a bill from our
>
> Registered Agent, must be approved by the Senate. The CFO has no
>
> discretionary authority to cut a check without the approval of the Senate -
>
> and so far I have not paid any bill that has not been approved by the
>
> Senate (votingplace.net being a key example). This is inefficient,
>
> stressful, and unlike any corporation that I have been involved with. Bills
>
> need to get paid, and while I have submitted a disbursement procedure - it
>
> has not yet been presented to the Senate. And, I would continue to
>
> professionalize both the CFO position and the organization." From LCSF
>
> In Roma Antiqua, the sent had specific charge in 2 specific areas. At
> least
> 1 of these mandates applies in Nova Roma, and that is the allocation and
> disbursement of public funds. The other, the conduct of foreign policy
> does
> not correlate as directly, though I could make a good case for it.
> However,
> that is not part of this discussion.
>

Yes, that would be a good analysis. The Senate did control the purse.

>
> At first reading of your statement, it appeared to me that you intend to
> dispense with the Senate, and take to the CFO's position the allocation
> and
> disbursement of funds, thus circumventing the prerogative of the Senate.
> On
> 2nd reading, however, it occurs to me that the issue I see could be one of
> nomenclature and not intent. All professions have their "jargon"and use
> terms perfectly familiar to fellow professionals in the field but not,
> necessarily, to those who are not in that field. So, what, exactly is a
> "disbursement procedure?" I suspect it is a kind of blanket authorization
> that would permit you to pay, without additional approval, any outstanding
> recurrent expenses. Would this then mean that any new expenditure (such as
> the purchase of web space) have to be approved and, if the billing is, say
> by month, that the item would then, with the Senate's approval be included
> in the disbursement procedure? Would one time expenditures need to be
> approved by the Senate?
>

Let me preface this by stating that I using financial jargon. But, I will
try to explain my response in a way that I hope will clear up all doubt and
concern.

Right now, the problem, as I see it is not one of oversight, but an issue
of micromanagement. Oversight is GREAT - micromanagement is bad and worse
it is inefficient. Normally, and right now there is no state of normal in
NR when it comes to the finances yet, but normally the CFO would get a bill
for webhosting say $11.00 a month (if we used the webhosting company I
recommend) and the Senate would have a budget line item. With that
approval in place the CFO would then authorize payment (and send it to a
co-signer on the account - for their signature), then it would be mailed to
the vendor for payment. However, as the finances currently exist, every
single bill I get, regardles of the cost must be approved by the Senate.
Then, because of the lack of control of the bank accounts, I would either
have to pay for it out of my own funds and then seek reimbursement for the
Senate for that OR I would have to sit on the bill until I gain control of
the accounts to be able to write checks (yes I do possess the checks -
though none have been written by me - because I am not a signer on the
account).

So, to briefly recap, if there was a budget in place that would be a great
step in the right direction. However, we then come to another scenario.
Say, for two years, we have been paying $11.00 the Senate has budgeted
$132.00 per year for webhosting. Thus, I get a bill, it straight out gets
paid with no fuss. But, then I get a notice from the webhoster stating
that they will be raising the rate from $11.00 a month to $12.00 a month.
It would exceed the budgeted amount. Thus I would have to go back to the
Senate either every month and get approval because of the cost increase or
I would have to do that once I have exhausted the allotted budgeted amount,
either way it is an inefficent use of the Board's time and of the CFO.

The easiest way to resolve this would be to create a forumla, a procedure a
guide that would give the CFO the ability to do his appointed duty by
making sure our bills are paid within their NET cycle (bills are usually in
a NET 30 cycle - which means that when a bill is issued, we have 30 days to
pay that bill). Thus if our webhosting service decides to up our fee, I
can still get it paid and notify the Senate of the change so that either
the Senate can revise the budget or see if we can get a new vendor.

This in no way affects Senate oversight. What it does is it makes the
board more efficient. It does not bog the Board down with minor issues
like paying the Registered Agent, when we know that is a bill that
absolutely MUST get paid. It also protects the CFO because I cannot pay a
bill without direct approval of the Senate. (This is why the Senate had to
in the last session directly give approval for the purchase).

Boards of Directors, generally meet for large items, generally 4-8 times a
year. Granted in Nova Roma, we try to have the Board meet monthly. Even
in that scenario, if we have senate calls that have 12 items in each
session only 1 or two are going to get serious attention - the rest tend to
get token treatment as a general rule. It would a determent for Senate
oversight to micromanage a position as important as the CFO. Granted, if
there are clearly unforeseen, unplanned or new costs - those issues will be
going to the Senate immediately for review and consideration.

>
> Under normal circumstances, I would have serious concerns about a consul
> combining his/hr office with that of the CFO, because that is an
> accumulation of powers that would allow 1 person alone, or with the
> consent
> and assistance of a fellow consul who shared his/her agenda, to hold our
> organization hostage, and, in fact, make it into the equivalent of a
> Principate. However, these are emphatically *not* normal times, and we
> *must* build a strong fiscal foundation, create the mechanisms that will
> allow it to work, integrate it with our internal Roman Republican
> Government
> structure, and see to it that subsequent Consuls, CFOs and Senates can use
> it effectively.
>
I agree.


>
> If you are elected consul, and remain CFO during your term, how would you
> ensure visible transparency? Would you work to incorporate checks and
> balances into this situation to provide visible forms of accountability to
> all citizens? How would these work?
>
There are a number of ways that I am going to do to ensure visible
transparency.

1st. In the disbursement procedure I have written up, if passed the Senate
is to be notified of every check that is written, regardless of amount
within 48 hours or less.
2nd. There are multiple signers on the checking account. One person
CANNOT sign a check, it would not be valid - and the bank would not honor
it. Thus no single individual can just clean out the bank account. - In
the recently passed Senatus Consulta I am a signer, Consul Cato and Consul
Venator are all listed signers.
3rd. I would like to suggest, if elected, a partner in the CFO position
for the coming year to serve to ensure that any matter that is handled thus
creating an extra layer of oversight for this extraordinary year.
4th. When each step of the process is completed - like I did with annual
report filings and such notification will be given to both the Senate and
the People. It is absolutely essential that everyone from new citizen all
the way to, if elected, my colleague is aware of the financial health of
the organization. Once I can get the audit completed, review the past,
ensure the present balance, then we can finally move forward to bigger and
better things. Then we can finally leave the past in the past and move to
a brighter future!
5th. When my term as CFO does expire I will ensure that the transition I
make with my successor will be seamless and far and away easier than the
transition I have had to experience.

I hope I have answered your questions. Please let me know if you have any
additional questions or concerns.

Respectfully,

Sulla



>
> I look forward to your reply.
>
> Vale quam optime!
>
> C. Maria Caeca
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Censor,

Thank you so very much for your endorsement. I will do my best not to let
you down.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 12:01 PM, Sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> SALVETE!
>
> In the best interest of Nova Roma, here are my endorsements:
>
> For consuls:
>
> My first choice goes to Cn. Iulius Caesar.
> The most important quality I find in him is the patience. Patience is a
> virtue with good implications because in his case is based of personal
> experience, deep analysis and balanced decisions. I like he is not radical
> and able to find time for anyone to advice and help. Open to discussions
> and intelligent debates, in those seven years from when I know him, I
> observed his primary interest is the Nova Roma's progress. Conservative in
> his Roman way and organizational innovative in the same time, Caesar has
> pragmatic vision directed to results. Acting as consul, will fix things.
> It's exactly what Nova Roma needs now.
>
> My next choice is L. Cornelius Sulla Felix.
> Nova Roma currently need experienced consuls. Then, need experienced
> consuls who act in agreement in order to solve some of the problems we have
> and figure out what is the future development.
> This year I collaborated with Cornelius Sulla in that parts where our
> functions, censor and CFO, intersected. With that occasion I observed the
> determination he has. If there was something to be solved, Cornelius Sulla
> was at his post, effective and efficient. For many times he affirmed is
> open to discussions. Yes, he is. With proper communication, one can move on
> in consensus with Cornelius Sulla and will be surprised to discover he is
> very able to accept and respect other opinions.
>
> I will not ignore the candidacy of C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus. He is
> fine and educated. The only observation I have is that was better for him
> to candidate as praetor this year.
>
> Therefore I believe in the team Cn. Iulius Caesar and L. Cornelius Sulla
> Felix for consulship. Nova Roma need that team if wants to see results. I
> will vote for them and ask our co fellows citizens to do the same.
>
> For praetors:
>
> If there is a candidate for praetura I fully support, without any other
> questions and doubts that is Gaius Petronius Dexter.
> He is a reference of what a tribunus plebis shall be.
> Fighting against other four corrupted tribunes, constantly and strongly
> keeping in his heart the Roman Republican values, he has outstanding
> commitments to what is possible to happen now!
> Through his Roman attitude and actions during the year when he acted as
> tribunus plebis - and we know what year was! - he reached the same level of
> performance as the most notable Ancient tribunes. My respect for that!
> C. Petronius Dexter honor Nova Roma and now Nova Roma need to honor him
> giving what he deserve, the praetor office.
>
> For praetura, near C. Petronius Dexter I will sustain the candidacy of
> Statia Cornelia Valeriana Iuliana Aeternia.
> Last year Aeternia was rogatrix. In the censorial office I assigned her to
> answer to the new citizens inquiries. She performed with honor her duties.
> This year she acted as aedilis. Was one of our magistrates present to post
> and performing her duties paying attention to the Roman Religion as time
> the games, are religious in essence.
> My endorsement to Aeternia is an endorsement to all who decide to serve as
> aedilis during their Cursus Honorum giving to this office the real value it
> deserves and saying, without entering in details, against those who see it
> as one of lesser importance that are totally wrong.
>
> Another valuable candidate is C. Aemilius Crassus. He has commitments this
> year, we collaborate very well, but from the reasons I explained, believe
> the other two candidates have priority in that election.
>
> My votes for praetors will go to C. Petronius Dexter and Statia Cornelia
> Valeriana Iuliana Aeternia.
>
> For censors:
>
> I sustain the candidacy of Q. Fabius Maximus as a logical step in his
> Cursus Honorum.
> In the past years he was under continuous attack of his political
> opponents. Now is his time.
> Not visible by all is his activity in the Senate. For many times his
> opinions were appreciated even by those who didn't agree with him in public.
> Fabius Maximus has concise points of view, good knowledge, historically
> and Nova Roma related, and, his long citizenship proves dedication to Nova
> Roma.
> I will prefer anytime those who are here, even if the Nova Roma's time was
> good or bad, in front of those who, in the same way like a comet, shine for
> short period of time and then disappear.
>
> I started reforms in the censorial office asking the Senate to waive the
> requirements of lex Equitia de tirocinio civium novorum. I asked that
> because I consider that joining to Nova Roma shall have only these two
> rules: the applicant desire and correct roman name based of our laws and
> our Latinists researches. Probationary period and tests has no relevance in
> this process.
>
> In this light, near Q. Fabius Maximus, I see as censor Ti. Galerius
> Paulinus. I know they are receptive to changes and have the necessary
> adaptability to take what is good from the past and eliminate what is wrong.
> I respect Ti. Galerius Paulinus because when magistrate, the people voice
> had priority in front of his edicts and respected the people voice.
> During the census, as governor, he performed exemplary the census in his
> province and received public recognition for his performance.
>
> Tullia Scholastica is close to my heart. Her commitments and experience in
> the censorial office are unquestionable. Our site most visited page is that
> about the Roman names. The world gives to Nova Roma recognition in this
> area. That is not possible without her precious work. But for this time �
> and I am sorry she will be sad � I will vote for reform.
>
> I appreciate the Ti. Cornelius Scipio desire to serve the Republic but he
> need to take intermediate steps until censura.
>
> Therefore my vote for censura goes to Q. Fabius Maximus and Ti. Galerius
> Paulinus.
>
> I sustain the candidacy of Cn. Cornelius Lentulus and Lucia Decia Flora
> for rogator. In Lentulus case we talk about someone extremely experienced
> in the job and in the Flora's case about a new citizen who wants to start
> her career in Nova Roma. I will not say more about Lentulus as time he and
> his service is well known but I congratulate Flora for his fine decision to
> serve.
> I will add Sp. Porcius Gemma here, who, in the same way, running for
> queastura decided to start in proper way his career in Nova Roma.
>
> Finally, I want to thanks to all who presented their candidacy and their
> fine desire to serve. It is really appreciated and I wish success to all of
> you.
>
> VALETE,
> Sabinus
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Dexter T. Iulio Sabino a.p.d.,

Thank you, amice, for your endorsement, your words are very appreciated. And your endorsement give me the occasion to say that Nova Roma is also the place in which we can meet gentlemen like you, and just for this reason Nova Roma must continue and grow.

Optime vale

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XV Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

> A. Tullia Scholastica Q. Caecilio Metello quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
>
> Q Caecilius Metellus pontifex A Tulliae Scholasticae ad censuram candidatae
> s.d.
>
> Salue Scholastica.
>
> To my knowledge, nothing has been stated from the Conlegium Pontificum stating
> that private individuals (or, for that matter, individuals privately) may not
> take actions on dies of any type (there were, in Antiquity, traditions on what
> one should or should not do on dies atri and dies religiosi, but those are not
> the kinds of days being referenced). Are you referring to one of the
> calendars printed and marketed by the former citizen Saturninus?
>
> ATS: Yes, I am.
>
>
> Would you point us to whatever it is that gives the prohibition?
>
> ATS: On the page for each month there is a box giving explanations of the
> character of the days. For N (nefasti), it says Normal working days, but no
> comitia meetings, judicial sentences, or beginning of private activities. I
> interpret(ed) the latter to mean that one should not, for example, begin a
> journey or announce a candidacy or do much else that involved a fresh start.
> For NP (nefasti publici), it says Like N, but no judicial acts can be carried
> on, feriae publicae. If these are like nefasti, one assumes that the
> conditions of nefasti also apply. Perhaps there is some confusion with dies
> atri in some of these explanations.
>
> On these matters, I leave the interpretations to the experts, such as
> yourself and Petronius. Thank you very much for your reply; you are one of a
> handful of citizens who is quite knowledgeable about the calendar. I am sure
> that this will be beneficial to all of our citizens.
>
> Vale
>
>
> Vale.
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

"O Oriens, splendor lucis aeternae et sol iustitiae: veni, et illumina
sedentes in tenebris et umbra mortis."

I would like, as we begin our celebrations of the great SATURNALIA, and fast approach the first night of the Festival of Lights and the Nativity of Christ, to wish all of our citizens the most wonderful, peaceful, and blessed of times.

As the earth rolls ever onward through time and space, from light into dark and then back into light without ceasing, remember with love and kindness those around you, especially family and friends, and rejoice.

Valete bene,

Cato

Caeca Sullae Senatori Sal!

Yes, Senator, you have answered my questions, clearly and comprehensively
...and in terms even I can understand. As might be expected, though, your
answers engender one or 2 more questions, and some thoughts.

Q. In the case of a new project or ongoing expense, such as, for example,
our purchase of VotingPlace.com software, wouldn't that initial purchase
need to be debated and approved by the full Senate? Upon approval, couldn't
that approval include delegation of on going maintenance (financial) to the
CFO under the disbursement procedures already in place?

Q. In the case you describe, where there is a price increase, if the
allocation for that item was phrased, not as a dollar amount, but something
like: "to web hosting site: monthly payments not to exceed, (say $22? (this
would allow for a price increase of 100%, which would be exorbitant, but
since you would be keeping track of such increases, you could, when the
price reached, say $15 per month, go back to the Senate and indicate that it
would be fiscally responsible to begin to seek another web hosting site
immediately. I don't know if such a thing is possible, but it seems
logical, at least to me.

I think it is all too easy to say that NR is either a corporation *or* a Res
Publica, as though they have nothing to do with one another. I disagree
with this idea. Legally yes, Nova is a not for profit corporation, with
legal compliance responsibilities to the State of Maine, and, probably, to
the United States. This corporation, if fully compliant provides us with
several benefits. Among other things, it is our interface with the
macro-national world, and protects us in some ways. Within that protection,
so long as we are law compliant, we can govern ourselves in whatever way we
choose, and we choose to be a working Roman Republican government. Now
...this choice means that we have to find a way to successfully interlock
both the corporation and the Res Publica in ways that are seamless, viable
and effective. I am not expert enough to know, exactly *how* to do this,
but I also have absolutely no doubt that it can, and should, be done.

In time, we may become something else. We may have a physical presence in
terms of land. We may have the ability to create a settlement of some sort.
Until we do, however, I think we need to work with what we do have, and yes,
just like any Government at any level, or any other enterprise, from the
smallest 1 person business to a fortune 500 corporation, part of what we do
is, not to put too fine a point upon it, run a business. The stronger our
fiscal foundation is, the better our resource management is, the more we
will be able, eventually, to do. If anyone can set our financial house in
order, and set us on the road to financial growth, I think you can, Senator.

Sta. Cornelia Aeternia C.Aemilio Crasso Omnibusque S.P.D.


Io Saturnalia to all who celebrate it!


Vale bene,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

IO Saturnalia ...to all my friends, and to all NR citizens and guests! I received a very special gift of Ethiopian honey wine, which I will share with the gods, and with which I will toast friends and Nova Roma. (not much, though, a little of that goes a very *long* way, especially since this is home made!)

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Q Caecilius Metellus A Tulliae Scholasticae s.d.

Salue,

Thank you for clarifying things here. I think it should be (and has
not been) noted that the endorsement of the Conlegium Pontificum for C
Curius to have printed those calendars was only so far as to say that
the Conlegium approved his use of the published calendar (the
"official" calendar).

You also noted:

>On the page for each month there is a box giving explanations of the
> character of the days. For N (nefasti), it says Normal working days, but no
> comitia meetings, judicial sentences, or beginning of private activities. I
> interpret(ed) the latter to mean that one should not, for example, begin a
> journey or announce a candidacy or do much else that involved a fresh
> start. [Explanation of NP snipped, for brevity, due to similarity.]

The former part of things is correct, however, the last prohibition
seems to be a conflation of dies atri with dies nefasti (publici), as
you noted. Even the prohibitions on dies atri were, to the best of my
knowledge, enforcable only when public matters were affected. I do
not know of any instance of a private individual being brought under
any charges or legal procedure of any public type for something
prohibited on a dies ater, such as making private offering on a
private altar. (I am also not aware of any private individual being
prosecuted for the same on a public altar, but this may have been an
act that simply did not happen, or was not recorded to have happened.)

Interestingly enough, though perhaps not for too many, A.K. Michels
comments on exactly this type of conflation, which seems (from
Gellius) to have occurred in Antiquity. In _The Calendar of the Roman
Republic_, Michels specifically begins the first paragraph of p. 66:
"Gellius' opinion that it is incorrect to identify dies religiosi and
atri with dies nefasti is confirmed by a glance at the characters of
the days in the Fasti."

Vale!

Ave!

On Sat, Dec 17, 2011 at 7:59 PM, C. Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Caeca Sullae Senatori Sal!
>
> Yes, Senator, you have answered my questions, clearly and comprehensively
> ...and in terms even I can understand. As might be expected, though, your
> answers engender one or 2 more questions, and some thoughts.
>
Great!


>
> Q. In the case of a new project or ongoing expense, such as, for example,
> our purchase of VotingPlace.com software, wouldn't that initial purchase
> need to be debated and approved by the full Senate? Upon approval,
> couldn't
> that approval include delegation of on going maintenance (financial) to
> the
> CFO under the disbursement procedures already in place?
>

Yes, and in the case of the voting place software it could be debated that
it was originally included in the SC back in July, I believe. However, to
be safe, let me be frank, I felt it needed to be spelled out. Partly out
of the need for the Board to directly specify it's complete and agreement
with no possible room for ambiguity that it agreed to purchase the software
and also for my own skin because I will do everything I possibly can to
make sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that if anyone had a concern regarding
the funding of NR and my disbursement of those funds that I cannot and
would not put myself in a position to be hauled up on charges of the Leges
Salicia due to even the slightest financial ambiguity.


>
> Q. In the case you describe, where there is a price increase, if the
> allocation for that item was phrased, not as a dollar amount, but
> something
> like: "to web hosting site: monthly payments not to exceed, (say $22?
> (this
> would allow for a price increase of 100%, which would be exorbitant, but
> since you would be keeping track of such increases, you could, when the
> price reached, say $15 per month, go back to the Senate and indicate that
> it
> would be fiscally responsible to begin to seek another web hosting site
> immediately. I don't know if such a thing is possible, but it seems
> logical, at least to me.
>

It absolutely could! I just know that at current that has not been done.
I think that would be very workable within the budgetary framework and
also within the Formula I have presented to the Consuls. There should be
some wiggle room - the key is to find a balance between the wiggle room for
those possible adjustments and making sure that the Senate maintains its
oversight powers. This is why no matter what changes do take place
notification is absolutely essential to the Senate. In your scenario and
in mine - the Senate will maintain its oversight powers completely.


>
> I think it is all too easy to say that NR is either a corporation *or* a
> Res
> Publica, as though they have nothing to do with one another. I disagree
> with this idea. Legally yes, Nova is a not for profit corporation, with
> legal compliance responsibilities to the State of Maine, and, probably, to
> the United States. This corporation, if fully compliant provides us with
> several benefits. Among other things, it is our interface with the
> macro-national world, and protects us in some ways. Within that
> protection,
> so long as we are law compliant, we can govern ourselves in whatever way
> we
> choose, and we choose to be a working Roman Republican government. Now
> ...this choice means that we have to find a way to successfully interlock
> both the corporation and the Res Publica in ways that are seamless, viable
> and effective. I am not expert enough to know, exactly *how* to do this,
> but I also have absolutely no doubt that it can, and should, be done.
>
Caeca, I completely understand. I am one individual who has served as
Consul of Nova Roma, I know the requirements, responsibilities and the
power vested in that position. I also have a solid corporate background
given my involvement in a wide array of corporations (both not profit and
profit based) I can assure you that I will maintain and work towards a
blending of both: The needs of the corporation AND the requirements and
powers vested into our Nova Roman Republican Government. Both can be
blended successfully. I firmly and absolutely believe that. The issue, at
least for this coming year, is to make certain that the conflict NR has
experienced in the past few years regarding corporation vs Republic is
resolved in a manner that is both professional and balances all aspects
with the extreme importance that they carry. I believe that I am one of
the few individuals in Nova Roma capable of addressing both having
considering both my macronational experience in corporate development and
culture and with my wide varied experience within Nova Roma.


>
> In time, we may become something else. We may have a physical presence in
> terms of land. We may have the ability to create a settlement of some
> sort.
> Until we do, however, I think we need to work with what we do have, and
> yes,
> just like any Government at any level, or any other enterprise, from the
> smallest 1 person business to a fortune 500 corporation, part of what we
> do
> is, not to put too fine a point upon it, run a business. The stronger our
> fiscal foundation is, the better our resource management is, the more we
> will be able, eventually, to do. If anyone can set our financial house in
> order, and set us on the road to financial growth, I think you can,
> Senator.
>
I agree, and at this juncture, I will do my best so that Nova Roma will be
in a position not to rule out any direction Nova Roma wishes to evolve
into. No matter what direction NR will take it will require the solid
fiscal foundation if for no other reason than to make sure that bills are
paid on time and in a timely manner. I believe that if we can show our
citizens and prospective citizens that our financial health is solid it
will encourage more participation, greater transparency, and ultimately
more growth.

Respectfully,

Sulla


>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Iulius Caesar sal

Firstly endorsements are simply a personal expression of who one is voting for. They have value because they firstly reflect my choices, and as a candidate it is important I think for the people to know who I am supporting and why. Secondly, for those who trust my judgment it may give pause for thought and reflection. Thirdly, because they are part of our developing mos maiorum. These are only my reflections on those that I am voting for, and not necessarily in any way a condemnation or reflection on those that I will not be voting for.  

In order of magisterial ranking within the Constitution and not a reflection on any ranking of my own, so to business. 

For Censor: Tiberius Galerius Paulinus and Quintus Fabius Maximus. 

Paulinus has done the job before and knows the ropes. He is an excellent steadfast friend of mine, and he sticks to his post. He is eminently suited to return to the censura. He is a loyal and dedicated citizen and has served the res publica well, and handled many critical issues. He is a true defender of people's rights and it was an honour to serve as he accensus when he was Consul. 

Maximus is also a friend of mine, and though at times we have differed on issues, he is one of the most steadfast and loyal citizens of this res publica. He embodies the true Roman spirit of not quitting, even when his opponents would have cheerfully brought him a ticket for a long one-way voyage to Antarctica. At times his friends too might have contributed to that collection, but Maximus has never flinched from stating his opinion, to friend or opponent, and he doesn't suckle on the teat of popularity at the cost of his beliefs.

Paulinus and Maximus know each other well and will work well together. That is essential in the censura. We cannot afford conflicts between the Censors. We need them acting in unison, unfettered by any personality issues. 

For Consul: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix. 
Maybe for some it was an unexpected turn of events that Sulla threw his hat in the ring, but for me it was a signal that we are teetering on the edge of the pit. Sulla has served Nova Roma well and he knows better than most that holding office has been in the past as pleasurable as eating a bucket of rusty nails. Times must be black and dire to bring Sulla to the Forum to candidate for Consul, but he has an implacable sense of duty. Times are black and we need Sulla's drive, energy and sense of organization. I have known Sulla since 2004 and he is one of my closest friends here. More than that, much more than that, he is capable and driven to succeed. He doesn't wobble, dither, prevaricate or sell himself for popularity or to gain a "pointy hat of power" and position in Nova Roma. For those of you who have decided to vote for me, give me Sulla as a colleague. Together we can institute the necessary changes to drag Nova Roma back from the abyss, in
a productive, harmonious, ordered and collegiate partnership. Sulla will concentrate on his areas of expertise primarily and I on mine, and we will lend support each to the other. For those of you who have decided to vote for Sulla, vote for me too for the same reasons ;)

For Praetor: Statia Cornelia Valeriana Iuliana Aeternia and Gaius Aemilius Crassus.

I have read the flurry of posts in respect of Aeternia. I am a little troubled by the concept that a freedom of expression on ones own Facebook page can be seen as detrimental to Nova Roma. I supported Forum Hospitum as a forum for non-citizens to join because it made sense that on an official communication venue we didn't ram down the throats of prospective citizens, not used to the workings of a res publica, all our political differences and classically Nova Roman style political cut and thrust debate and invective in sustained and heavy doses. Time enough for that later. That is Nova Roma's own forum and we can set our own rules within that environment. The moment however we try to extend that degree of control over content to a citizen's own pages is the moment we have gone too far. I myself have in the past frequently posted acerbic and partisan opinions elsewhere, cheerfully and with relish. I know the concerns over the Facebook posting were
genuinely held and I understand the rationale for them, but I simply cannot find fault with someone for expressing an opinion within their own sphere of control. The office of Praetor can be a force for great good or harm within the context of the moderation of the forum. We have had one lawyer before as Praetor, who was well versed in Roman law, and purported to be in our law, but was one who, in my opinion, presided over a trial that became a benchmark for the failure of our system of justice inside Nova Roma. Another lawyer as Praetor slapped moderation notices and gag orders on people for relatively minor matters. I prefer Aeternia's sense of humanity to a dose of immovable rigor, but equally I know she won't flinch from any tough decisions necessary.

Gaius Aemilius Crassus is as solid as a rock. Utterly dependable and possessed of a set of equitable, fair and just principles. As a tribune this year he demonstrated that he had a firm hand on the legal code and wasn't afraid to question decisions proposed or made, and to gently hint that he was prepared to go the distance on some issues. He is a friend, a good man, a sound man, and a fair man. He isn't prone to running around like a headless chicken in a blind panic or flying off the handle. Crassus is a stable force. The praetura needs that and he and Aeternia will work well together. Nova Roma needs that.


Optime valete

C. Petronius Dexter Quiritibus Novis Romanis salutem plurimam dicit,

This is my statement for the Praetorship.

Now that the candidacies are closed and the Comices will begin on December 20, it is time to me to share with you my official statement.

As I do not want to hurt your ears with my bad English, I will be short.

The praetor faces 2 main tasks. Overseeing the official fora and administering the judicial system.

Those 2 tasks beg from the praetor some main Roman virtues as dignitas, severitas and aequitas. I think that I have the three as you can appreciate it in the year I was tribune of the Plebs. The behavior of a magistrate is more important than a dream plan written in good English.

What I want successfuly obtain if I am elected?
For Nova Roma a year with fora frequented by more people, with interesting discussions and polite debates, fora in which people want to be involved and also put the laws in order, seek and point the incoherences between them in order to propose their improvement to the vote of the comices and finally, obtain also for myself the satisfaction to have been usefull to this big idea that we share: Nova Roma.

Praetorship is a collegial position, you will elect a couple of praetors. The year I was tribune of the Plebs the both praetors resigned together, with me that will not happen. In putting my candidacy for praetor, I make a contract with you to serve Nova Roma the entire year incoming. A collegial position and also a key position in the wheels of the state. So, my fellow citizens, I beg your suffrages on my name because I think that this year will be very constructive as I read on the statements of the candidates for the consulship, so I will help in the frame of the praetor's duties each progress I will agree, for the best of Nova Roma.

Optime valete.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. XV Kal. Ian. P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sta. Cornelia Aeternia C. Petronio Dextero Omnibusque S.P.D.

I agree with your statement regarding the two main functions of the
Praetura. However, I believe you have left out another important function
and in a previous e-mail you downgraded it in a very disturbingly casual
manner. That issue is the Ludi Apollinares, my question to you, is to
please state your opinion and plans for the required Praetorian Ludi?


Vale Optime,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> C. Petronius Dexter A. Tulliae Scholasticae Quiritibus s.p.d.,
>
>> > ATS: Could you please explain why my (so-called) official
> NR calendar (from a previous year) says that we also may not begin private
> activities on dies nefasti? That is one of the reasons why I delayed my
> announcement, for the 14th was ater and nefastus, and my calendar says that
> the 15th was nefastus publicus, which I thought also prohibited beginning
> private activities. That is why Cato extended the time in his original edict
> (but seems to have forgotten about this until reminded by The Man With the
> Plan, Caesar).
>
> The ater dies and the nefastus dies is not the same thing.
>
> ATS2: Indeed they are not, but as I suspected and mentioned in my note in
> response to Metellus, this calendar seems to confuse the two categories.
>
> 1. Atri dies are the days following the Kalends, Nones and Ides. On those days
> it is encouraged to not begin any activities.

ATS2: Bene scio.

>
> 2- Nefasti dies are days consacred to the gods. On those days "secular
> activities" are not allowed, except these that you cannot delay. If you search
> on the scholars, as Varro, which are those secular activities prohibited, you
> have to yoke the oxen, clip the vines. Those days too you cannot convene the
> comitia, nor the praetor may give judgement.
>
> ATS2: Sane. Having been praetrix, I know about that last one in
> particular.
>
> The announcement of a candidacy is not an activity.
>
> ATS2: Bene.
>
> It is not an edict, nor a judgement. A magistrate is not allowed to publish a
> report, a decree, but a candidate is not yet a magistrate and he may announce
> his candidacy when he wants. If he did it on an "ater dies" he tempts the
> fortune, but as private individual he does not fail.
>
> Hmmm...
>
> Only magistrates, priests and all who have public activity, being a part of
> the city, has to strictly follow the nature of the days, because they
> represent the city/nation towards the gods. So if they do not respect the
> character of the days, they put the city in danger with the pax deorum. But as
> private individual, if you act against the character of the days, you are
> responsible of, and you deal that with the gods.
>
>>> > > 3- During the night, the character of the day does not work.
>
>>>> >>> ATS: Oh? The nights don¹t count? This is very interesting. If a day
>>>> (during the time the sun is up) is, say, nefastus, the night need not be?
>>>> Does the night have any character at all? <<<
>
> The character of the days is for the day, id est from the sunrise to the
> sunset. For example the days with the character EN are cut in two part, in
> fact they are Fasti in the middle. Nefasti on the morning to kill the offering
> and again Nefasti on the evening to burn the sacrifice. Between these two
> moments the day is Fastus, Fastus and not Comitialis because the comitia
> always begin on the morning.
>
> The nights have no characters.
>
> ATS2: Comme j¹ai dit, très interessant. The nights lack character...were
> the Romans afraid of the dark?
>
> Plurimas gratias pro responso tuo, et bona fausta felicia Saturnalia tibi
> exopto.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> Et tu!
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. XV Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete et omnes,
First off, Io Saturnalia! Ours was great.
I would like to offer my endorsement to Aeternia, who brings a mature outlook, to Crassus who has proven to be organized, and to Sulla, who has answered all my questions promptly and professionally,
Vale,
Lucia Decia Flora

>
>
>
>

Salve, Pauline, et salvete, quirites bonae voluntatis.

>
> Salve Scholastica ,
>
>
>
> A few points about your post. First congratulations on
> standing. Good luck.

Good luck to you as well. Now more than ever we need experience in the
censura.

>
>
>
> "This year we have some worthy candidates, and some not
> so worthy, as one
>
> might expect. This is most obvious in the censura, for until
> Paulinus
>
> declared his candidacy (though on a dies nefastus), there
> was no one who was
>
> experienced and / or suitable for the position. "
>
>
>
> I checked the
> calendar and posted, ROMAN time on the 15th of December.
>
> As you can see nothing prohibits my announcement on the 15th
> as "ordinary citizens may do anything".

I checked my calendar, too, and there seemed to be some ambiguity about
whether or not one could begin private activities on such a day. It seems
that our pontifices have clarified this matter, and that your candidacy was
announced on an appropriate day. I apologize for any misunderstanding.

My calendar lists 'no beginning of private activities' on dies nefasti,
but it happens that the 15th was nefastus publicus, not nefastus, and does
not have that notation, but according to this calendar (which seems to be in
error) carries the same prohibitions as nefasti and then some. With regard
to such matters, I defer to the experts.

>
>
> Dies nefasti [N]
>
>
>
>
>
> �ordinary citizens may do anything;
>
> �proceedings of the comitia tributa, concilium plebis, and
> comitia centuriata are prohibited;
>
> �exercise of their judicial functions by curule magistrates
> is prohibited[4]
>
>
>
>
> Dies nefasti publici [NP]
>
> �similar to dies nefasti with the following
> modifications:�acts of physical violence and beginning of lawsuits are nefas;
>
> �quarrels should be avoided (but robust and lively debate
> was acceptable);
>
> �slaves are allowed the day off work;
>
> �ordinary citizens should avoid any physical labour except
> what is urgently necessary and ca not be postponed;
>
> �the flamines and the rex sacrorum may not see anyone doing
> any physical labour, and may fine anyone they see doing physical labour.
>
>
>
>
>
> On a second point. You said,
>
>
>
> "The Res Publica needs someone(actually, two some ones)
> with experience in this office especially since we
>
> will have no senior censor."
>
>
>
> Actually the person elected as Censor Suffectus will be
> senior as they will be filling
>
> the last year and a few days of the term of office that has been vacant since
> June.
>
> They will take office, in December, as soon as the election
> results are known
>
> and they can take and publish their oath. The person elected
> to the other Censor position will not take
>
> office until January 1st and will be the junior Censor for
> their first year.
>

I shall look into this. Of course we should have had the suffectus
election shortly after the post became vacant, but that did not occur.

>
>
>
> Vale
>
>
>
> Ti. Galerius Paulinus
>
> Candidate for Censor Suffectus
>

Vale, et valete,

A. Tullia Scholastica

>
>

C. Petronius Dexter Quiritibus omnibus salutem,

Here my endorsements:

For censors:

I endorse the candidacy of Q. Fabius Maximus, because I know him within the Collegium Pontificum and I appreciated his strenght in front of the attacks of his opponents, since I was cooptated to the CP.

I endorse also the candidacy of Ti. Galerius Paulinus, because he has experience as censor and I trust in his professionalism.

Aula Tullia Scholastica has all my sympathy, and she is my favourite latinist. I know her very busy with the Latin courses, this task, as I saw de visu, makes her exhausted. Then I do not believe that she will have the time to be both Latin's magistra and Censor.

As I think that the censorship is the crowning achievement of the cursus honorum and Ti. Cornelius Scipio was at the first step as quaestor, he has to stand for tribune or aedile, praetor and consul before running for the censorship.


For consuls.

I endorse the candidacy of L. Cornelius Sulla, as I yet said. Because I think that he is honest and active. And for the incoming year Nova Roma will need a such consul.

I endorse also the candidacy of Cn. Caesar gave us a Herculean agenda, I hope that he will have success in his 7 tasks. We will see at the end of the year.:o)

[I just notice that a couple of consuls called Sulla & Caesar would have a taste of revenge on the past History.:-)]

C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus has all my sympathy. I think that he must be praetor before consul. In the traditional cursus honorum the consulship is the step after the praetorship.

For quaestors:

I endorse the candidacy of Sp. Porcius Gemma, who begins his cursus honorum and I wish him good beginning.

It is a pity that we have no more candidates as quaestores.

For rogators:

I warmly endorse the candidacy of my friend Cn. Cornelius Lentulus and endorse too the candidacy of Lucia Decia Flora.


Optime valete.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. XV Kal. Ian. P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Q. Caecilio Metello S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Q Caecilius Metellus A Tulliae Scholasticae s.d.
>
> Salue,
>
> Thank you for clarifying things here.
>
> You¹re quite welcome. Thank you again for your response(s).
>
>
> I think it should be (and has
> not been) noted that the endorsement of the Conlegium Pontificum for C
> Curius to have printed those calendars was only so far as to say that
> the Conlegium approved his use of the published calendar (the
> "official" calendar).
>
> You also noted:
>
>> >On the page for each month there is a box giving explanations of the
>> > character of the days. For N (nefasti), it says Normal working days, but
>> no
>> > comitia meetings, judicial sentences, or beginning of private activities. I
>> > interpret(ed) the latter to mean that one should not, for example, begin a
>> > journey or announce a candidacy or do much else that involved a fresh
>> > start. [Explanation of NP snipped, for brevity, due to similarity.]
>
> The former part of things is correct, however, the last prohibition
> seems to be a conflation of dies atri with dies nefasti (publici), as
> you noted.
>
> Yes, it seems so.
>
>
> Even the prohibitions on dies atri were, to the best of my
> knowledge, enforcable only when public matters were affected. I do
> not know of any instance of a private individual being brought under
> any charges or legal procedure of any public type for something
> prohibited on a dies ater, such as making private offering on a
> private altar. (I am also not aware of any private individual being
> prosecuted for the same on a public altar, but this may have been an
> act that simply did not happen, or was not recorded to have happened.)
>
> Interestingly enough, though perhaps not for too many, A.K. Michels
> comments on exactly this type of conflation, which seems (from
> Gellius) to have occurred in Antiquity. In _The Calendar of the Roman
> Republic_, Michels specifically begins the first paragraph of p. 66:
> "Gellius' opinion that it is incorrect to identify dies religiosi and
> atri with dies nefasti is confirmed by a glance at the characters of
> the days in the Fasti."
>
> ;-) It does take a special sort of temperament to be deeply interested in
> such matters. It¹s nice to know that the ancients confused the characters of
> the days as well.
>
> Again, thank you for your insights on this topic. Bona fausta felicia
> Saturnalia tibi exopto!
>
> Vale!
>
> Vale!
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Tulliae Scholasticae s.p.d.,

>>> ATS2: Indeed they are not, but as I suspected and mentioned in my note in response to Metellus, this calendar seems to confuse the two categories. <<<

Each Kalends, I call Iuno Covella during the kalends ceremonial and I give on the list the characters of the days for the month. I did it too on the Kalends of December.

You have the nature of the days of December 2764 as I presented them to Iuno for Nova Roma in the message:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/85752

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XV Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

C. Petronius Aeterniae s.p.d.,

> I agree with your statement regarding the two main functions of the
> Praetura.

Thank you very much.
But all praetors must have to feel those functions as main.

>>> However, I believe you have left out another important function

and in a previous e-mail you downgraded it in a very disturbingly casual manner. That issue is the Ludi Apollinares, my question to you, is to please state your opinion and plans for the required Praetorian Ludi?<<<

The Ludi Apollinares are from the 5 to the 13 July. These Ludi do not beg such time, resources and presence than the managering of the Justice system and for the overseeing of the official lists during all the year, daily. The Ludi, as you know, are a religious fun given to Apollo and for the people of Nova Roma - even if I do not keep memory of the Ludi Apollinares of 2764 - if elected, of course I will manage them on their time. Moreover, Apollo is my favourite God.

But I hope that you are not running the preator position for making active a team of scribae for 9 days in the year. But perhaps I did not well understand your question. What do you want about the Ludi Apollinares 2765? The program? Free seats?

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XV Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

Aeternia C.Petronio S.P.D.

Please see my comments below.

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 12:13 AM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> C. Petronius Aeterniae s.p.d.,
>
>
> > I agree with your statement regarding the two main functions of the
> > Praetura.
>
> Thank you very much.
> But all praetors must have to feel those functions as main.
>

Aeternia: I concur absolutely.



>
>
> >>> However, I believe you have left out another important function
> and in a previous e-mail you downgraded it in a very disturbingly casual
> manner. That issue is the Ludi Apollinares, my question to you, is to
> please state your opinion and plans for the required Praetorian Ludi?<<<
>
> The Ludi Apollinares are from the 5 to the 13 July. These Ludi do not beg
> such time, resources and presence than the managering of the Justice system
> and for the overseeing of the official lists during all the year, daily.
> The Ludi, as you know, are a religious fun given to Apollo and for the
> people of Nova Roma - even if I do not keep memory of the Ludi Apollinares
> of 2764 - if elected, of course I will manage them on their time. Moreover,
> Apollo is my favourite God.
>

Aeternia: Yes I am aware of what the Ludi are more than you'd think, as I
have done five of them consecutively. As Apollo being your favorite God,
then you have renewed my confidence somewhat Dexter, if you are elected
Praetor, I have no doubt that in this case the Ludi Apollinares will indeed
be honored, given your statement mentioned above.

>
> But I hope that you are not running the preator position for making active
> a team of scribae for 9 days in the year. But perhaps I did not well
> understand your question. What do you want about the Ludi Apollinares 2765?
> The program? Free seats?
>

Aeternia: Never expected a free seat because I didn't know you were going
to be charging ;-). I think however we may not be understanding each other
, because my cohors has always been chosen with 365 days in mind of
constant activity. In any case Dexter, you answered my concerns, and I
thank you for them.

Vale Optime et Bonne nuit,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro S.P.D.
>
>
>
> C. Petronius Dexter Quiritibus omnibus salutem,
>
> Here my endorsements:
>
> For censors:
>
> I endorse the candidacy of Q. Fabius Maximus, because I know him within the
> Collegium Pontificum and I appreciated his strenght in front of the attacks of
> his opponents, since I was cooptated to the CP.
>
> I endorse also the candidacy of Ti. Galerius Paulinus, because he has
> experience as censor and I trust in his professionalism.
>
> Aula Tullia Scholastica has all my sympathy, and she is my favourite latinist.
> I know her very busy with the Latin courses, this task, as I saw de visu,
> makes her exhausted. Then I do not believe that she will have the time to be
> both Latin's magistra and Censor.
>
> ATS: There are times, such as the present, when I am very busy with exam
> correction, but the homework and lessons in Sermo are automated, having been
> prepared by Avitus and concealed onsite from the students. I merely have to
> reveal them and answer questions, then correct the exams, which are twice a
> year. The Grammatica classes require individual homework correction, but the
> classes are much smaller, and that does not take long. Only at exams time am
> I extremely short of time, and since nature has spared us shoveling duty so
> far this year, I can devote more time to correction and other duties. When
> you saw me, I had just started the courses, and the questions fly then.
> Things are much quieter later on...and the classes are smaller, too, for some
> have washed out. If I didn¹t think I had the time for this, I would not have
> run for any position.
>
> I¹m glad that I am your favorite Latinist, though there are several good
> ones here. Unfortunately, several others have faded into the background or
> disappeared altogether, even before you appeared.
>
> As I think that the censorship is the crowning achievement of the cursus
> honorum and Ti. Cornelius Scipio was at the first step as quaestor, he has to
> stand for tribune or aedile, praetor and consul before running for the
> censorship.
>
> For consuls.
>
> I endorse the candidacy of L. Cornelius Sulla, as I yet said. Because I think
> that he is honest and active. And for the incoming year Nova Roma will need a
> such consul.
>
> I endorse also the candidacy of Cn. Caesar gave us a Herculean agenda, I hope
> that he will have success in his 7 tasks. We will see at the end of the
> year.:o)
>
> [I just notice that a couple of consuls called Sulla & Caesar would have a
> taste of revenge on the past History.:-)]
>
> C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus has all my sympathy. I think that he must be
> praetor before consul. In the traditional cursus honorum the consulship is the
> step after the praetorship.
>
> For quaestors:
>
> I endorse the candidacy of Sp. Porcius Gemma, who begins his cursus honorum
> and I wish him good beginning.
>
> It is a pity that we have no more candidates as quaestores.
>
> For rogators:
>
> I warmly endorse the candidacy of my friend Cn. Cornelius Lentulus and endorse
> too the candidacy of Lucia Decia Flora.
>
> Optime valete.
>
> --
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a.d. XV Kal. Ian. P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
>
> Vale optime.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Volusus Cato sal.

I respectfully decline the bait, but thanks for offering :D

Volusus.

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 4:49 AM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Cato Iuliae Aquilae sal.
>
> LOL yes indeed, and I have raised my own brow (archly) at Volusus :)
>
> Vale bene and IO SATURNALIA!
>
> Cato
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Iulia Catoni sal,
> >
> > I was waxing nostalgic and thinking of what stir the edict would have
> caused in years past with legal objections, most of which went no where.
> > And the difference of this election where we are finally coming together
> in cooperation - and could this be part of the modern mos maiorum.
> >
> > Merry Christmas Season Consul!
> >
> > Vale bene,
> >
> > Julia
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cato Iuliae Volususque SPD
> > >
> > > Pray tell what "legal" objection might be found?
> > >
> > > Valete bene,
> > >
> > > Cato
> > >
> > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Cowham <nykcowham@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Salve Iulia,
> > > >
> > > > You actually express my own sentiments concerning this edict, almost
> > > > exactly. A very big stink could be made, and in better times such a
> stink
> > > > would be made. However, like you, I don't think it serves anyone's
> interest
> > > > right now to put up any opposition to this. I am not inclined to
> point out
> > > > the obvious flaws. I have been chewing on this all day and conclude
> that
> > > > cooperation is more prudent right now. However, reliance on the
> prudence
> > > > and good-will of others should not be taken for granted or abused.
> > > >
> > > > Vale,
> > > >
> > > > Volusus
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:11 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> > > > luciaiuliaaquila@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > **
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Iulia Cato cos. Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am allowing myself some amusement in this Edict. A few chuckles
> actually
> > > > > as i think of such a post, such a edict, being posted in years
> past. It
> > > > > would have taken on a life of its own.
> > > > > Today you can hear a pin drop.
> > > > > However, in order to save NR we must have a modicum of
> cooperation, and
> > > > > this stands as a way to that means, so i shall reserve any legal
> objection.
> > > > >
> > > > > VIVAT NOVA ROMA
> > > > >
> > > > > Vale, et valete
> > > > >
> > > > > Julia
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In view of the fact that Cornelius Sulla wishes to offer his
> services to
> > > > > the Respublica in a magisterial office, and that he took an oath
> to resign
> > > > > as CFO if he ran for office, I will consider him officially
> resigned as
> > > > > CFO, thus fulfilling his oath to the Senate.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In view of his expertise and intimate and ongoing knowledge of
> our
> > > > > finanncial situation, in view of the authority vested in me by the
> > > > > Constitution of Nova Roma to, as consul, "issue those edicta
> (edicts)
> > > > > necessary to engage in those tasks which advance the mission and
> function
> > > > > of Nova Roma" (Const. N.R. IV.2.b),
> > > > > >
> > > > > > EX OFFICIO C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIS
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I hereby appoint Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix as interim CFO of
> Nova
> > > > > Roma, Inc. until and unless either the Senate of Nova Roma or
> future
> > > > > consuls find necessary to relieve him of those duties.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Given by my hand this a.d. XVIII Kal. Ian. P. Ullerio Venatori
> C. Equiti
> > > > > Catoni coss.
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Juliae Aquilae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> L. Iulia Aquila A. Tulliae Scholasticae omnibusque S.P.D.
>
> Magistra,
>
> I want to clarify that all questions, esp. the macro qqs are optional – no one
> is obligated to answer any questions asked of them.
>
> As one might expect with what amounts to a form letter / questionnaire,
> some of these queries do not pertain to every magistracy, and some may not
> pertain to any.
>
>
> Do you have any prior macro experience in a related field or skills that will
> be useful in the office you seek?
>
> As you know, I have language skills which are very important in the
> censura. Unless one works in the census bureau, there isn¹t much which
> compares with the NR censura, and there are significant differences even
> there. In addition, I was born with the makings of a good moral compass, and
> it is unlikely that there is any of our magistracies in which that element is
> more important than it is in the censura. It is also important in the
> praetura, but the censura is supposed to be our moral center as well as our
> (so to speak) Welcome Center for new citizens. We should expect that our
> censores uphold good moral values and have a pleasant disposition, which I do.
> Through my teaching, I am also accustomed to working with individuals of
> diverse backgrounds, and that, too, is helpful in the censura.
>
> What is your prior macro work experience?
>
> Teacher and adjunct professor, as well as tutor and home instructor, plus
> some office work and miscellanea.
>
> What are your strengths? What are your weaknesses (attendance, work history,
> knowledge deficit etc) and how do you plan to surmount them?
>
> Some might view my strengths as weaknesses (or vice versa). I am
> intelligent, highly educated, and upright. I also have a strong work ethic, a
> good sense of humor, and am basically optimistic. I have experience in the
> censorial office and good language skills, which are very important in that
> capacity. I also work with a content management system as part of my teaching
> online, and have used a similar one for grading purposes during my college
> teaching.
>
>
> What is your experience in Nova Roma that qualifies for the office you seek?
>
> As I pointed out in my announcement of candidacy, I have extensive
> experience in the censorial cohors as rogatrix and as scriba for several
> different censores, and have held other scribaships, an accensaship, a
> quaestura, and a praetura. So far as I know, I am the first woman to complete
> her term as praetrix, and (I believe) the only one. It is now time to break
> the glass ceiling, for though we have had women in virtually every other
> position, to the best of my knowledge, no woman has held the censura.
>
>
> Have you taken classes or engaged in further study, apprentices etc. in the
> office you seek?
>
> Not sure what you mean here. As a censorial scriba and as rogatrix, one
> is a sort of apprentice to the censor. My background in Latin was pretty well
> established before I entered Nova Roma, but I subsequently took the ancestor
> of the Sermo Combined course, which is geared to producing fluency in spoken
> and written Latin, and have been teaching both Grammatica Latina and Sermo
> Latinus for some years now. We have a very diverse group this year in Sermo,
> with students from Africa, eastern and western Europe, central and south
> America, the Far East, and the United States.
>
> Do you feel you have the temperament for political office?
>
> Of course. I already have held a fairly high office, and encountered some
> rather difficult moments during it.
>
>
> Are you able to set your needs, your own self interest and emotions, aside for
> the needs of the respublica and her citizens?
>
> I am not driven by emotions, but have a good sense of humor (often needed
> in both teaching and hanging around NR) and am essentially an optimist.
>
> I ask the following questions with the understanding that concepts like values
> and culture can be subjective and difficult to define however it is important,
> particularly the state that Nova Roma is in now, that we elect candidates
> whose work ethic, motivations, and methods are in concert with the mos
> maiorum:
> What does the mos maiorum mean to you? Will you adhere to and promote the mos
> maiorum (within reasonable modernity) in Nova Roma without your own self
> interests testing these "time honored principles"?
>
> These concepts are extremely subject to interpretation, and we do not have
> the very best handle on just what the Romans deemed the mos majorum. Like
> everything else, things change over time. I do think that since we do not
> live in the same world as the Romans did, we must adapt Roman principles to
> our own day. You would not be a pontifex if we followed a strict
> interpretation of the mos (and no doubt there are those who would prefer
> that); I would not have been praetrix, and (assuming a real-world presence)
> maybe some of the plebeians really would have been polishing our silver
> instead of us making innocent jokes about that. Our ludi might well have been
> bloody, and perhaps involved deaths as well as serious injuries. I rather
> suspect, too, that members of the reenactment legions with which I am familiar
> would prefer not to march on some governmental entity and engage in combat
> with the police or the military or attempt to conquer any bit of a macro
> nation, not even Monaco or Liechtenstein. The Romans were not disposed to the
> equivalent of putting flowers in rifle barrels, but matters are rather
> different among us.
>
> Can you give me one measure you plan to take to promote fiscal solvency? Have
> you detailed plan in writing for us to review? What changes in spending and/or
> taxes do you support?
>
> This is not so relevant to the post of censor, given that this is more a
> consular concern and that we do not follow the Roman practice of evaluating
> people by the size of their bank accounts. We do need to get control of our
> finances and make prudent expenditures both to run our government (such as for
> the voting software) and to make NR attractive to others (such as JSTOR). We
> have to offer people some reason to come here, and to stay. And to pay the
> tax.
>
> How well do you know NR leges? Have you taken a course on Roman Law such as
> the one in AT (I have a copy)? Do you feel you know Roman law well enough to
> be competent without being coached? Do you have the support of one or two of
> our Nova Roma legal "experts" and could you take the advice without taking it
> personally or thinking you are being sabotaged or some such?
>
> As a former praetrix, and as the proofreader for the entire original
> website, I have read those laws many times and am reasonably familiar with
> them, though I have not memorized the Tabularium. I did enroll for Cordus¹
> course. As far as I know, Cordus was our chief legal expert, and he is no
> longer active here. Two or three other attorneys of my acquaintance have left
> NR. I don¹t have these peculiar reactions to advice or the like. Sabotage?
> Goodness!
>
>
> What do you see is your biggest challenge in the next year?
>
> There are several, one of which is increasing the citizen numbers and
> getting NR on sound footing otherwise. Another is dealing with the IT issue
> which has contributed to the drop in citizen numbers as well as other
> problems. We must make NR attractive to potentially interested parties, and
> keep them here.
>
>
> Scenario: You are elected. What is the first project, first on your agenda,
> that you will attend to?
>
> Doing my part to make NR a welcoming place for new citizens (not there are
> many applicants at present, as you well know). That is the main function of
> the censura.
>
> Finally: If you find, after attempting to resolve a detrimental situation such
> as illness, that you will not be able to continue to fulfill the duties of
> your office will you resign in a dignified manner or just disappear only
> reappearing to tell us you have not gone?
>
> I have a strong work ethic, and barring death or utter inability to
> communicate, would resign rather than be a bench warmer like so many of our
> magistrates, especially those of this year.
>
> Thank you so very much for standing as a candidate!
>
> You are welcome.
>
> Vale, et valete optime
>
> L. Julia Aquila
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com> , "A.
> Tullia Scholastica" <fororom@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>> >
>> > More names should be submitted [for our magistracies], as the title
>> > above indicates. This is particularly true with regard to the lower
>> > magistracies elected by the Comitia Populi Tributa, but also applies to the
>> > others, for the Res Publica needs her citizens to step forth to serve her,
>> > and her people deserve a choice, a choice none of us had last year when
>> > (whether intentional or not) only enough candidates to fill the vacancies
>> > were allowed, and (again, whether or not intentional, or due to a dearth of
>> > candidates) apparently only those who belonged to one political faction
>> were
>> > deemed suitable contenders. The sole exception was the praetura, where
>> > there were three candidates for two positions, but all were of the same
>> > political stripe. A subterfuge was employed to prevent the most likely
>> > prospective candidates who held other viewpoints from running for office,
>> > and those elections were forever stained as a result.
>> >
>> > That, of course, was not the only problem we had last year, but like
>> > many of us, I hope that we now have a secure voting system which will allow
>> > fair elections, and that the relevant magistrate(s) will accept any and all
>> > candidates, whatever their political views, and will moreover allow any
>> such
>> > individuals the opportunity to succeed in their quest, free from any
>> > machinations to prevent any who do not belong to the favored faction from
>> > winning. No sensible citizen would like to see election fraud of any kind,
>> > or would like to see the privacy of one¹s vote violated.
>> >
>> > This year we have some worthy candidates, and some not so worthy, as >>

one

>> > might expect. This is most obvious in the censura, for until Paulinus
>> > declared his candidacy (though on a dies nefastus), there was no one who >>

was

>> > experienced and / or suitable for the position. One previous candidate
>> > seems enthusiastic, but has had no experience, and the other has plenty
>> > (though not in the censura itself), but seems to lack certain qualities one
>> > should see in the censura. Troubled by this, I have decided to run for the
>> > censura. I have been rogatrix (elected censorial assistant) twice, and a
>> > senior Latinist in the censorial cohors for several years. My first
>> > position in Nova Roma was as a consular accensa, and I have also served as
>> > scriba for several additional magistrates. I have also held the quaestura
>> > and the praetura, and am the sole senatrix. The Res Publica needs someone
>> > (actually, two someones) with experience in this office especially since we
>> > will have no senior censor. I fulfill all of the other requirements, and
>> > hope that the people will deem me worthy of this honor.
>> >
>> > Valete.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Dexter P. M. Quiritibus s.p.d.,

Ex Domo Pontificis Maximi:

Audi, Iane, audi, Juppiter, audite, Di Deaeque caelestes, Di terrestres, Di inferi, dique omnes, audi Vesta; audite, populus Novae Romae, Quirites, ut illa palam prima postrema ex illis tabulis cerave recitata sunt sine dolo malo, utique hic hodie rectissime intellecta sunt, illis decretis populus Novus Romanus non deficiet.

HOC AGITE!

The Collegium Pontificum,
having met on November and December
in its deliberations, issues the following decreta:

ITEM I:

QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQVE SIT POPULO NOVO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS

Some corrections to the "Decretum Pontificum de Calendario Perpetuo(Nova
Roma)".

1 - Instead of "Decretum Pontificum de Calendario Perpetuo (Nova Roma)". We will
have the more correct title:
Decretum pontificum de Fastis perpetuis (Nova Roma).

2- According to the book of Macrobius, Saturnalia I, 14, and the wishes of the
PM C. Iulius Caesar explained in this book the 10 days following are *Fasti
dies*.

- January:
a. d. IV & III Kal. Feb.
29 & 30 January
- April:
a. d. VI Kal. Mai.
26 April.
- June:
a. d. III Kal. Quint.
29 June.
- August:
a. d. IV & III Kal. Sept.
29 & 30 August
- September:
a. d. III Kal. Oct.
29 September.
- November:
a. d. III Kal. Dec.
29 November.
- December:
a. d. IV & III Kal. Ian.
29 & 30 December.

3- The addition of intercalary days will be determined by the Gregorian formula
using the common era as a reference, but will be inserted between ante Diem VII
Kalendas Martias and ante Diem VI Kalendas Martias.

------------------------------------------

ITEM II:

QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQVE SIT POPULO NOVO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS

Decretum pontificum de litteris dierum et nundinarum.

1- The decretum pontificum de Fastis perpetuis gives one letter to one
dayforever, in perpetuum.

2- Nundinium is the gap between 2 nundinae. This gap is of 8 days. So first each
day has one of the 8 letters A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H; second, in the modern
calendar,each nundina is one week and one day after the previous.

3- Nundinal letter of the year is the letter of the first market day of the
year. For example, if the first market day falls on the 4 January, the nundinal
letter of the year is D.

4 - Each common year has 365 days, but a leap year has 366 days.

5- The day more in the leap year, the intercalary day, is placed between the a.
d. VII kal. Martias and the a. d. VI Kal. Martias, and has the same letter G
than the day that it is the double. This day being into the gap of a nundinium,
after it it becomes necessary that the former nundinal letter of the year
changes. A leap year always has 2 nundinal letters, the first one before the
a.d. bis VI Kal Martias, the second one after this same day. Logically the
second letter is always the letter before the fisrt into the 8 possible nundinal
letters. For example a leap year which begins with the letter A, in this case
its first market day fell on the 1st January, the first market day following the
intercalary day automatically falls on a the first H day after, id est the a. d.
V Kal. Martias.

6- In any case each common year may have as nundinal letter only the letters
A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H; and each leap year always may have as nundinal letters only the
following possibility: AH, BA, CB, DC, ED, FE, GF, HG.

7- It is a good tool to use the Julian days for the comput of the market days,
because the gap between 2 market days must be a multiple of 8 and this comput
can be easily made with the Julian days numbers.

---------------------------------------------

ITEM III:

QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQVE SIT POPULO NOVO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS

Decretum pontificum de binis nundinarum litteris anni MMDCCLXV aVc.

1- The year MMDCCLXV aVc is a leap year. It has its first nundina, market day,
on Wednesday 4 January, [Julian day number: 2 455 931]. So its first nundinal
letter is D.

2- The first market day following the intercalary day on a.d. bis VI Kal.
Martias falls on pridie Kal. Martias, Wednesday 29 February, [Julian day number:
2 455 987] which has as nundinal letter C. The second nundinal letter of this
year is C.

3- The gap between 4 january and 29 February is exactly 56 days, a multiple of 8
(nundinium).

4- The nundinal letters of the leap year MMDCCLXV are DC.

-----------------------------------------------


Datum ante diem XV Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio consulibus,
anno MMDCCLXIV ab Vrbe Condita. (18 December 2011)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Aeterniae s.p.d.,

> Aeternia: Yes I am aware of what the Ludi are more than you'd think,

CPD: Excuse me but as I am not a native English speaker your "you'd think" is it a "you" in general or is it you = Dexter? In the second case, I know that the Ludi is something to do. I was a fresh citizen when Albucius was praetor and managed the games. For the occasion I invented, among others, the chariot Incitatus... and discovered by the comments of Albucius how the praetorship was not a "sinécure".

> as I have done five of them consecutively.

CPD: Five what?

> As Apollo being your favorite God,

CPD: Yes, he is with Portunus, who became a propitious god for me bit by bit, but the Portunalia are less magnificent than the Ludi Apollinares. If I am elected Praetor, I will refuse gladiator games, because Apollo is the God of the Arts. But, I know already what beautiful games I will propose to the people of Nova Roma.

>>> then you have renewed my confidence somewhat Dexter, if you are elected Praetor, I have no doubt that in this case the Ludi Apollinares will indeed be honored, given your statement mentioned above.<<<

CPD: If I am elected, I will manage these Ludi, if I am not you will care. In both the cases Apollo will have the honors of the city. I am not worried about that.

> Aeternia: Never expected a free seat because I didn't know you were going to be charging ;-).

CPD: Of course... vox quiritium, vox deorum.

>>> I think however we may not be understanding each other

, because my cohors has always been chosen with 365 days in mind of
constant activity. In any case Dexter, you answered my concerns, and I thank you for them.<<<

CPD: Can you clear me that? The cohors that you had last year as aedilis curulis, cohors aedilician, will follow you if you are elected praetor?

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XV Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

Aeternia C. Petronio S.P.D.

Some tiny snippets will be in French to make this a bit easier, I will
include English translations as well..

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 4:24 AM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> C. Petronius Aeterniae s.p.d.,
>
>
> > Aeternia: Yes I am aware of what the Ludi are more than you'd think,
>
> CPD: Excuse me but as I am not a native English speaker your "you'd think"
> is it a "you" in general or is it you = Dexter? In the second case, I know
> that the Ludi is something to do. I was a fresh citizen when Albucius was
> praetor and managed the games. For the occasion I invented, among others,
> the chariot Incitatus... and discovered by the comments of Albucius how the
> praetorship was not a "sinécure".
>

SCJA: Non, you'd moyens que vous (No, you'd means you would). Although
I remember Albucius while Curule Aedile did an amazing set of games, I
actually went through the Aedilician Cohors archives and reviewed his games
he did an amazing job. You are again absolutely correct that Praetor is not
a sinécure, it is a office that requires much work and no pay.

>
>
> > as I have done five of them consecutively.
>
> CPD: Five what?
>

SCJA: Cinq Ludi consecutif ( Five consecutive Ludi)

>
> > As Apollo being your favorite God,
>
> SCJA: Yes, he is with Portunus, who became a propitious god for me bit by
> bit, but the Portunalia are less magnificent than the Ludi Apollinares. If
> I am elected Praetor, I will refuse gladiatr games, because Apollo is the
> God of the Arts. But, I know already what beautiful games I will propose to
> the people of Nova Roma.
>

SCJA: I do recall you were Flamen Portunalis before your elevation to
Pontiff and then later Pontifex Maximus correct? To my understanding and
I perceive as such, since Apollo is your favorite deity, then that says
to me, you will be most attentive in making sure the Ludi Apollinares will
be honored in 2765. I have no doubt the Ludi you will hold if elected to
the Praetorship will be most beautiful.

>
> >>> then you have renewed my confidence somewhat Dexter, if you are
> elected Praetor, I have no doubt that in this case the Ludi Apollinares
> will indeed be honored, given your statement mentioned above.<<<
>
> CPD: If I am elected, I will manage these Ludi, if I am not you will care.
> In both the cases Apollo will have the honors of the city. I am not worried
> about that.
>

SCJA: On that we are in complete agreement.

>
>
> > Aeternia: Never expected a free seat because I didn't know you were
> going to be charging ;-).
>
> CPD: Of course... vox quiritium, vox deorum.
>

SCJA: You said it :)

>
>
> >>> I think however we may not be understanding each other
> , because my cohors has always been chosen with 365 days in mind of
> constant activity. In any case Dexter, you answered my concerns, and I
> thank you for them.<<<
>
> CPD: Can you clear me that? The cohors that you had last year as aedilis
> curulis, cohors aedilician, will follow you if you are elected praetor?
>

SCJA: As much I am tempted to say this in french, because I believe this
is the part where we have been misunderstanding each other. No I will not
be running the Praetura Cohors as I did the Aedilician Cohors, the Praetura
must be handled with more seriousness than the approach I had taken with
the Aedilician Cohors. However, any Cohors that I involve myself in, I
expect it to be active 365 days than just nine days. I am hoping this will
clear up the confusion.



> Vale Optime,
>
Aeternia


--
*"Fortes fortuna iuvat"*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

I am glad to see the good quality of candidates we have attracted for the
up-coming election, though the lack of Curule Aediles concerns me. I am
also heartened to see activity once again on this list, and can only hope it
continues once the elections are over. I thoroughly enjoy a constructive,
busy list, especially here.

As to the candidates, here are my very informal thoughts, and I present them
as a citizen with no office, just a great deal of interest in what happens
in, and to, the Res Publica.

For consul, I believe that Gn. Iulius Caesar and L. Cornelius Sulla may be
the only 2 individuals in our Republic that can get us back on track, and
this is true despite the fact that I usually disagree with both of them on
...almost everything. C. Tullius Valerianus, while highly qualified,
should, I think, serve as Praetor before seeking to be consul. I do know
that he can, legally, move directly from Tribune to consul, but I am not
convinced that doing so is wise.

For Censor ...3 of the candidates have excellent qualifications. Q.. Fabius
Maximus (with whom I often disagree), has proved to be utterly loyal to Nova
Roma, even when staying here was more than unpleasant and difficult. He
withstood all the javelins thrown at him, and even threw many of them back.
I have enormous respect for those who stay, even during difficult times,
because it tells me that they *will* stay. Such people are my inspiration
when things seem hopeless, and when I feel that I am sitting at the death
bed of this Res Publica. Their presence, whatever I may think of what they
say publicly, reminds me forcibly of 2 things. The Romans who we so admire
never quit, and they never gave up, even when they had to completely
rebuild, or when they had to make difficult adjustments to impossible
situations.

Paulinus has been Censor, successfully before, knows the Censura, and has
demonstrated his even temper and absolute fairness. In fact, he was Censor
during some of our most tumultuous years, but he did not descend into the
melay. He did his job, even handedly, and with efficiency.

Scholastica is a fine Latinist, and, since part of a Censor's duties involve
the issue of correct Roman nomenclature, having this kind of scholarship in
the Censura is extremely beneficial. As to Cornelius Scipio, I am a bit
confused as to his qualifications in running for the position of Censor.
Perhaps I am mistaken about the requirements for the office, but I was under
the impression that a candidate had to have held the position of either
consul or Praetor to qualify. If he has, I don't remember reading it in his
statements.

For the position of Praetor: there are 3 excellent candidates. I have
worked in Aeternia's cohors, and I know how seriously she took her job, even
if that job was planning Ludi, which we equate to parties. They are that,
of course, but they are much, much, more. The Ludi are movable feasts for
the gods in the form of games and entertainments which the people also can
enjoy. I don't think Aeternia ever lost sight of that fact. She was
extremely creative, and presented some new things ...and that is not a bad
thing. Experimentation is often how a person or a group (or a Res Publica)
grows. Granted, the Praetors requires some different skills, and a far more
serious attitude, especially since the Praetors are vice presidents of the
corporation, members of the Senate, and have charge of our Justice system.
Aeternia covered her attitudes to these things in her statement to my
satisfaction.

C. Aemelius Crassus has proved himself as Tribune. When it became necessary
to present a very important Ludi with almost no notice, he managed it. Yes,
he had help, but it was up to him to *get* that help, and he didn't throw up
his hands and give up. He did what had to be done, and it was done well.

As to C. Petronius Dexter ...what can I say? He has, from the time he came
to Nova Roma, been a shining example of virtue, fierce rectitude and
courage. I remember his Tribunate very, very well, and his courage and
steadfastness were absolutely magnificent. I trust him absolutely to handle
any office whatsoever with dignitas, gravitas, and fairness. I have also
had the pleasure of meeting him, and have found him to be charming,
considerate and thoughtful, as well.

The 2 candidates for Rogatur are excellent, and, in fact, if they both win,
Flora will be extremely fortunate to serve with such an experienced
colleague.

This year, we will have to make some hard choices, because of the quality of
our candidates, and that, I think, is the most healthy sign I have yet seen
that we could well be on the road to recovery and growth. I urge all
citizens to think carefully, read what our candidates say now, as well as
what they have said in the past, consider the history of what they have done
in years past, set personal friendships and inclinations (even
political/factional) aside, and cast your votes entirely for the good of
Nova Roma.

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca

Salve Gaia,

Could you please contact me, as time permits, at my personal e-mail address
C.Aemilis.Priscus@... as I have questions about your term as Plebeian
Aedile. I have accepted this position for the next term.

Vale,

Priscus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

V. Valerius Volusus C. Mariae Caecae S.P.D.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts Caeca. They were, as always, very
gracious and thoughtful; as I have come to expect from you!

You expressed some reservations about the legality of some of the
candidates standing for offices, so I'd like to assure you that all
candidates may legally stand according to Nova Roma laws (Lex Vedia de
cursu honorum). However, whether they are following the expected cursus
observed by our ancient forefathers is another matter.

To summarize and paraphrase the Lex de cursu honorum: The office of Censor,
Consul, Praetor: the candidate must have served at least 6 months as a
magistrate (except the extraordinarii) or as a provincial governor. All the
current candidate for those positions do qualify by law.

Vale optime,

Volusus

P.S. There are other laws related to the cursus honorum in NR, governing
age requirements and plebeian magistracies, that are not applicable to the
doubts you expressed.

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 11:34 PM, C. Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Omnibus in foro S. P. D.
>
> I am glad to see the good quality of candidates we have attracted for the
> up-coming election, though the lack of Curule Aediles concerns me. I am
> also heartened to see activity once again on this list, and can only hope
> it
> continues once the elections are over. I thoroughly enjoy a constructive,
> busy list, especially here.
>
> As to the candidates, here are my very informal thoughts, and I present
> them
> as a citizen with no office, just a great deal of interest in what happens
> in, and to, the Res Publica.
>
> For consul, I believe that Gn. Iulius Caesar and L. Cornelius Sulla may be
> the only 2 individuals in our Republic that can get us back on track, and
> this is true despite the fact that I usually disagree with both of them on
> ...almost everything. C. Tullius Valerianus, while highly qualified,
> should, I think, serve as Praetor before seeking to be consul. I do know
> that he can, legally, move directly from Tribune to consul, but I am not
> convinced that doing so is wise.
>
> For Censor ...3 of the candidates have excellent qualifications. Q..
> Fabius
> Maximus (with whom I often disagree), has proved to be utterly loyal to
> Nova
> Roma, even when staying here was more than unpleasant and difficult. He
> withstood all the javelins thrown at him, and even threw many of them
> back.
> I have enormous respect for those who stay, even during difficult times,
> because it tells me that they *will* stay. Such people are my inspiration
> when things seem hopeless, and when I feel that I am sitting at the death
> bed of this Res Publica. Their presence, whatever I may think of what they
> say publicly, reminds me forcibly of 2 things. The Romans who we so admire
> never quit, and they never gave up, even when they had to completely
> rebuild, or when they had to make difficult adjustments to impossible
> situations.
>
> Paulinus has been Censor, successfully before, knows the Censura, and has
> demonstrated his even temper and absolute fairness. In fact, he was Censor
> during some of our most tumultuous years, but he did not descend into the
> melay. He did his job, even handedly, and with efficiency.
>
> Scholastica is a fine Latinist, and, since part of a Censor's duties
> involve
> the issue of correct Roman nomenclature, having this kind of scholarship
> in
> the Censura is extremely beneficial. As to Cornelius Scipio, I am a bit
> confused as to his qualifications in running for the position of Censor.
> Perhaps I am mistaken about the requirements for the office, but I was
> under
> the impression that a candidate had to have held the position of either
> consul or Praetor to qualify. If he has, I don't remember reading it in
> his
> statements.
>
> For the position of Praetor: there are 3 excellent candidates. I have
> worked in Aeternia's cohors, and I know how seriously she took her job,
> even
> if that job was planning Ludi, which we equate to parties. They are that,
> of course, but they are much, much, more. The Ludi are movable feasts for
> the gods in the form of games and entertainments which the people also can
> enjoy. I don't think Aeternia ever lost sight of that fact. She was
> extremely creative, and presented some new things ...and that is not a bad
> thing. Experimentation is often how a person or a group (or a Res Publica)
> grows. Granted, the Praetors requires some different skills, and a far
> more
> serious attitude, especially since the Praetors are vice presidents of the
> corporation, members of the Senate, and have charge of our Justice system.
> Aeternia covered her attitudes to these things in her statement to my
> satisfaction.
>
> C. Aemelius Crassus has proved himself as Tribune. When it became
> necessary
> to present a very important Ludi with almost no notice, he managed it.
> Yes,
> he had help, but it was up to him to *get* that help, and he didn't throw
> up
> his hands and give up. He did what had to be done, and it was done well.
>
> As to C. Petronius Dexter ...what can I say? He has, from the time he came
> to Nova Roma, been a shining example of virtue, fierce rectitude and
> courage. I remember his Tribunate very, very well, and his courage and
> steadfastness were absolutely magnificent. I trust him absolutely to
> handle
> any office whatsoever with dignitas, gravitas, and fairness. I have also
> had the pleasure of meeting him, and have found him to be charming,
> considerate and thoughtful, as well.
>
> The 2 candidates for Rogatur are excellent, and, in fact, if they both
> win,
> Flora will be extremely fortunate to serve with such an experienced
> colleague.
>
> This year, we will have to make some hard choices, because of the quality
> of
> our candidates, and that, I think, is the most healthy sign I have yet
> seen
> that we could well be on the road to recovery and growth. I urge all
> citizens to think carefully, read what our candidates say now, as well as
> what they have said in the past, consider the history of what they have
> done
> in years past, set personal friendships and inclinations (even
> political/factional) aside, and cast your votes entirely for the good of
> Nova Roma.
>
> Valete bene!
> C. Maria Caeca
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Maria Caeca V. Valerio Voluso Tribuni Plebis S. P. D.

Thank you, Tribune, for your correction. Apparently I misunderstood things
a bit, and I am glad to know I was mistaken.

Vale quam optime!
CMC

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:17 AM, C. Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...>wrote:

> **
> C. Maria Caeca V. Valerio Voluso Tribuni Plebis S. P. D.
>
> Thank you, Tribune, for your correction. Apparently I misunderstood things
> a bit, and I am glad to know I was mistaken.
>

Salve amica
Not really mistaken. You are absolutely correct by the standards of the mos
maiorem and laws of ancient Rome! You're just showing your sensitivity to
the mos maiorem :D It's just that the NR cursus honorum does not follow
ancient practice.

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Cursus_honorum_(Nova_Roma) - provided for
reference for anyone interested.

Vale optime,

Volusus

>
> Vale quam optime!
> CMC
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Tribune Valerio Volusus and Maria Caeca, If you mean the ancient Roman mos maiorem, and the practice of serving and then spending a year out ofoffice I would agree with you. However, in Nova Roma it would seam that our mos maiorem has explicitly been developed that does not requiretime out of office. In fact when I was Consul I proposed a Lex that codified the ancient Roman practice and it was rejectedat the polls by the people. Go figure. The argument against codifying the practice was always the same. We do not have enough peoplewilling to stand and serve. An interesting topic. Valete Ti. Galerius Paulinus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Pauline et salvete omnes!

No, I was referring to something I am pretty sure I read, somewhere in NR concerning qualifications for certain offices. It is possible that I didn't read carefully enough, or it is possible that what I read were not official qualifications, but strong suggestions. This has nothing to do with taking a year off between offices, although I, also think that is a good idea, especially where higher magistracies are concerned. However, the facts of our public lives are that, indeed, we *don't* have enough qualified and willing people to serve in our offices. That can, and I hope will, change at some point, and then we can re-visit the idea of a year between offices.

Vale et valete!
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Mariae Caecae Valerioque Voluso Tribuno Plebis s.p.d.,

Things are not a suchs manicheism nor something about mistake or not. Not put in comparison the mos maiorum with our laws. All is the question to give a sense to the concept of cursus honorum. If the current NR mess allowed by the law is called a cursus honorum, so it is normal and legal that the cursus honorum in Nova Roma is a mess.

Why a mess? Because all the steps or level of this so called cursus honorum in NR laws are on the same level. As if you make a scale with all rungs at the same level. Even if you call it scale, because made with rungs, it is not a scale if all rungs are on the same level.
The cursus honorum is not a race to obtain the magistracy you want but ascending duties that we stand for step by step.

Now the problem is to know if we want a true cursus honorum or a mess so called cursus honorum. Because of the name cursus honorum sounds honorable and hides a mess.

The NR law about this pseudo "cursus honorum" show the evidence that a good standing cursus honorum was not the real goal of this law.

We have the choice to leave things as they are, because it is the Law. Or more adults we know that laws must be changed in order to make true, fair and logical the things. In this case having a true, fair and logical cursus honorum.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XV Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

Salvete Galeri Pauline, Maria Caeca et omnes,

Yes, I think it is an interesting topic. In a way there can really only be
one mos maiorem. It is the way of the ancients. Due to modern circumstances
and constraints Nova Roma has to depart from the mos maiorem in quite a
number of ways. Though we might loosely talk about a "new" mos maiorem,
really we should be keeping in mind that the aim is to honor the way of the
ancients as much as possible, even though with modifications. We certainly
may, and already have, developed a distinctive NR character and customs,
and they may merge into the modified mos maiorem over time.

As you say, the realities of our current circumstances makes it expedient
to suspend the mos maiorem, but that does not mean that we fully dispense
with it. In the future, and if the gods allow, Nova Roma will grow and
florish and we may again be able to honor the mos maiorem correctly. Having
said that, I have the greatest respect for citizens, such as Petronius
Dexter, who choose to follow the mos maiorem in their own magisterial
careers in Nova Roma. I believe that shows the proper respect to our
ancestors.

Valete bene,

Volusus

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:53 AM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <
spqr753@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
>
> Salvete Tribune Valerio Volusus and Maria Caeca, If you mean the ancient
> Roman mos maiorem, and the practice of serving and then spending a year out
> ofoffice I would agree with you. However, in Nova Roma it would seam that
> our mos maiorem has explicitly been developed that does not requiretime out
> of office. In fact when I was Consul I proposed a Lex that codified the
> ancient Roman practice and it was rejectedat the polls by the people. Go
> figure. The argument against codifying the practice was always the same. We
> do not have enough peoplewilling to stand and serve. An interesting topic.
> Valete Ti. Galerius Paulinus
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

V. Valerius Volusus C. Petronio Dextro S.P.D.

I agree. The ideal is to follow the cursus honorum of the ancients. That is
the true and correct way. Your own adherence to the correct cursus is
exemplary, and I would want to follow that fine example. Although, the law
may allow someone to go from, say, a Quaestor to Censor, that does not mean
that it would be well received by the electorate. In that sense, Caeca's
concerns are fully on target!

Right now, the law in NR puts up minimal barriers in the cursus. When we
are in better times and have plenty of eligible and willing candidates
those laws can be, and should be, brought into accord with the mos maiorem.
Surely, the way of the ancients must always be the yardstick by which we
measure Nova Roma. If we lose sight of that, then we lose any claim to
being a revival of Roman civilization.

Vale bene,

Volusus

On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 2:12 AM, petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> C. Petronius Mariae Caecae Valerioque Voluso Tribuno Plebis s.p.d.,
>
> Things are not a suchs manicheism nor something about mistake or not. Not
> put in comparison the mos maiorum with our laws. All is the question to
> give a sense to the concept of cursus honorum. If the current NR mess
> allowed by the law is called a cursus honorum, so it is normal and legal
> that the cursus honorum in Nova Roma is a mess.
>
> Why a mess? Because all the steps or level of this so called cursus
> honorum in NR laws are on the same level. As if you make a scale with all
> rungs at the same level. Even if you call it scale, because made with
> rungs, it is not a scale if all rungs are on the same level.
> The cursus honorum is not a race to obtain the magistracy you want but
> ascending duties that we stand for step by step.
>
> Now the problem is to know if we want a true cursus honorum or a mess so
> called cursus honorum. Because of the name cursus honorum sounds honorable
> and hides a mess.
>
> The NR law about this pseudo "cursus honorum" show the evidence that a
> good standing cursus honorum was not the real goal of this law.
>
> We have the choice to leave things as they are, because it is the Law. Or
> more adults we know that laws must be changed in order to make true, fair
> and logical the things. In this case having a true, fair and logical cursus
> honorum.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. XV Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus Augur L. Iuliae Aquilae Pontifici S.P.D.

Salve! I am glad to see that you are taking such an active role in
questioning the candidates for this election! I did not wish to reply
during the first day of Saturnalia (it would have seemed quite rude to me,
to inundate the voters with political discussion during the holiday) I
shall try to give such answers as I am able:

> Do you have any professional macro qualifications for the office you seek?
> Do you have any prior macro experience in a related field or skills that
> will be useful in the office you seek?
>
> Do you mean by this, "Have I ever been president of the United States of

America?" Well, no. I think that would have made the news, anyway :) But I
have been a teacher of Latin and Classical Humanities for more than ten
years, at levels from middle school to university, which I suppose
qualifies me as an expert on the Romans and their thought (since without
Latin, how can anyone truly claim to know the mode of thinking peculiar to
the Romans?). I have been involved in administration in my macro life,
which is also useful experience, I think.

What is your prior macro work experience? What are your strengths? What are

> your weaknesses (attendance, work history, knowledge deficit etc) and how
> do you plan to surmount them?
>

My prior experience has been varied, and is longer and more complex than I
care to recount in detail. Suffice to say that I have done everything from
professional-class work (e.g. teaching) to retail (including in a
supervisory and managerial capacity) to physical labor (warehouse jobs,
unloading trucks, etc.). I'm not afraid of hard work. When my wife and I
moved in together, I was working 3 jobs (one full time, 2 part time),
because that was what I needed to do at the time. Perhaps in Roma Antiqua,
aristocratic disdain for physical labor might have disqualified me from
office, but in these more enlightened times, I see such jobs as an asset.
They speak not only to my moral stamina and determination, but to my
physical fitness for office as well. More on this below.

What is your experience in Nova Roma that qualifies for the office you
seek? Have you taken classes or engaged in further study, apprentices etc.
in the office you seek

> Well, first of all, I have a lengthy period of citizenship in Nova Roma,

stretching all the way back to the consulship of Quintus Fabius Maximus and
Marcus Minucius Audens (2000). I have been a citizen of NR continuously
since then, never having resigned my citizenship nor "died." I was not
always an extremely active citizen, but I was a loyal one. I have certainly
a student of NR's laws and politics for a while, and I have always upheld
doing what is both legal and right (I think my record speaks for itself,
especially during the tumult of the "Second Civil War" and the events of
the year before that led us to that sorry pass.

> Do you feel you have the temperament for political office? Are you able
> to set your needs, your own self interest and emotions, aside for the needs
> of the respublica and her citizens?
>
> Again, I am not the sort to seek office if I do not think that I can do

the job! As for service to the Republic outweighing my passions, well, I am
a practicing Stoic, and even if I may not be Seneca's ideal Sage, one could
say that the philosophy that guides my entire life is based precisely on
doing what is right rather than being buffeted about by my desires.

> I ask the following questions with the understanding that concepts like
> values and culture can be subjective and difficult to define however it is
> important, particularly the state that Nova Roma is in now, that we elect
> candidates whose work ethic, motivations, and methods are in concert with
> the mos maiorum:
> What does the mos maiorum mean to you? Will you adhere to and promote the
> mos mairoum (within reasonable modernity) in Nova Roma without your own
> self interests testing these "time honored principles"?
>
>This is a matter of some importance to me personally. I am a professional

Classicist, I can honestly say - and it is not idle boasting, but merely a
statement of fact - that I am more cognizant of the *mos maiorum *than a
nonspecialist could possibly be. This is my *life. *Furthermore, as a
Latinist, I can *think *as a Roman, truly, in a way that a non-Latinist
cannot. I do not mean to imply that a non-professional-Classicist or
non-Latinist is incapable of being a good Roman, but I am saying that I
have a "head start" here - I'm *already *in the Roman mindset, so to speak.
Beyond this immediate, intimate familiarity with the *mos maiorum, *I have
lived as a Roman for a while, and have the advantage of having a Roman
household (my wife is Roman, we speak Latin frequently at home, etc.).
Again, not a necessity to be a good citizen of Nova Roma or even to hold
office, but it does mean a daily connection with the *mindset *implied by *mos
maiorum *that is difficult to rival for those without these advantages.
Yes, I adhere to and promote the *mos maiorum *within reasonable modernity
of Nova Roma* already, *so it will not change my stance to be elected!
There are certainly aspects of the *mos *that are not appropriate to modern
life (slavery, gender inequality, etc.) that I do not promote and have not
promoted, but I think my record again speaks for itself (*res ipsa loquitur*,
as a Roman would say).

>
> How well do you know NR leges? Have you taken a course on Roman Law such
> as the one in AT (I have a copy)? Do you feel you know Roman law well
> enough to be competent without being coached? Do you have the support of
> one or two of our Nova Roma legal "experts" and could you take the advice
> without taking it personally or thinking you are being sabotaged or some
> such?
>
> I think it is fair to say that I am conversant in NR's laws, although I

have not taken a course (and I would be interested in the copy of the AT
course you mention, since it is my understanding that the course is defunct
and no longer available). I certainly can say that I have had to advice of
some NR legal experts in the past, and would not hesitate to consult others
as needed again. I would like to add that unlike some of the other
candidates, I a student of *iura sacra *as well as *iura civilia, *and
could in fact be said to be an expert on *augural *law (and have a fair
knowledge of *pontifical *law, though not a pontifex myself). I could Q.
Caecilius Metellus as a close friend, and would certainly consult him
for *fetial
*law (and would in fact like to promote *fetial *ties with some other
nations that ought to be natural allies of Nova Roma, such as Byzantium
Novum).

> Scenario: You are elected. What is the first project, first on your
> agenda, that you will attend to?
>
> Well, I would have a busy first day if elected, since I am a *cultor

deorum *and *augur, *I would be performing the traditional New Year's
consular sacrifice and taking auspices for the new year. But I know that
you meant substantive political agenda items, not these things that go
without saying for most Romans (and I suppose any of the other candidates
incapable of these things for themselves could find someone to perform
these sacred duties for them, if they cannot fulfill their duties
themselves). But as for those agenda items, probably the first thing I
would wish to pursue would be to make certain that NR has control over its
own website on our own server. This problem can be solved relatively
simply, I think (I have several experts in my own household and close
friends in NR that have advised me on the technical aspects of this), and
it should be possible to get it done fairly quickly and efficiently. It is
hard to know how much danger we are in until this is done (I have heard it
said that the current owner of the hardware could simply turn it off at a
whim - someone replied, "No, he can't!" "Why not?" "Well, because we paid
him not to!"), but I find it unacceptable, as I know the majority of our
citizens do, that we are held "hostage" in such a manner. Constitutional
reform, as Caesar and I have discussed, must also begin very soon if we are
to do everything that must be done to assure NR's survival - no, not just
survival, but indeed thriving.

Finally: If you find, after attempting to resolve a detrimental situation

> such as illness, that you will not be able to continue to fulfill the
> duties of your office will you resign in a dignified manner or just
> disappear only reappearing to tell us you have not gone?
>
> > Well, this is a very important point you have brought up. We have seen

magistrates disappear before, and we cannot afford to let that happen
again. People have vanished, "died," or simply been unavailable. First of
all, I can say I do not anticipate this happening. I have never been
hospitalized in my life, I am fortunate to be in robust good health, and
I'm actually getting healthier all the time (I am overweight, but I have
lost 30 lb. in the last 6 months, and continue to build muscle and
strength, combined with improved diet). I agree with your implication that
some people are a sort of "health risk," and certainly anyone with a
chronic history of hospitalization ought not to be considered for office!
But should something come up - after all, who can say? - and I were unable
to fulfill my duties, I would certainly rather resign in a dignifed manner
than just disappear! I can't imagine who would answer your question
otherwise, even if they have a history of doing precisely that!

> Thank you again for your interest and your questions. I hope I may have

your support and your vote, Iulia!

Vale!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus L. Iuliae Aquilae S.P.D.

Salve! I know how close you are or have been to Aeternia, and how much
integrity is required to speak honestly of your experiences, putting the
Republic ahead of your personal friendship. So I applaud you for that, and
sympathize with how hard it must have been to do so.

I also endorse Petronius and Crassus for *praetores!*
*
*
Vale!

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 7:02 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Iulia s.d.
>
> >I believe Aeternia to have all the qualities, skills and honesty to be an
> > optima Praetrix of Nova Roma.
> >I believe she have demonstrate so in this
> > year being the solo Aedilis Curulis for the most of the year.
>
> Aeternia worked hard, her cohors worked harder. She has demonstrated some
> skill as a party planner in a disorganized way - nothing else. Aeternia
> knows little of the law and does not know how to implement the law as she
> demonstrated in a statement that Paulinus pointed out a couple of days ago.
> The mos maiorum is NOT internalized in her, but the SCA is, and so if we
> want to have REN fairres she's the gal. When her advisors or the CP , for
> example gave her advice she did not receive it well, she saw it as sabotage
> or they did't like her - or they didn't know how to have fun. Her maturity
> and level of expertise is just not there. Her respect for the religio, in
> my opinion, is highly questionable and it has nothing to do with her not
> being a cultor, which she isn't, but I heard her refer to the Roman Gods as
> myths.
> As for confidentially, a big factor in the praetura, she fails here as
> well. Airing NR's dirty laundry in a public venue outside of NR on
> Facebook. Esp. when we have been under attack by Nova Roma Revealed and she
> serves them fodder with a silver spoon. Bespeaks immaturity - not to
> mention her propensity for gossip esp. regarding one of our new tribunes,
> whose personal business, some not very flattering, is now public knowledge,
> thanks to Aeternia, -this is disloyal and demonstrates an inability to keep
> confidences.:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/85884
>
> She could not even get the time of the contio right when attacking (talk
> about petty) another candidate for Praetor - which, as a candidate, she
> should be on top of it. She was using this erroneous knowledge to try to
> demean the very very worthy opposition and it backfired.
>
> Backfires, self interest, lack of confidentiality, lack of legal skills
> and a sense of disequilibrium is what we will have in the praetura if
> Aeternia is elected.
> But hey she can give good party!!!
>
> We have two other excellent candidates who will serve the praetura with
> honor and skill. Vote Petronius and Crassus for an honorable praetura.
>
> Vale, et valete
>
> Julia
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Aemilius Crassus"
> <c.aemilius.crassus@...> wrote:
> >
> > C. Aemilius Crassus omnibus SPD,
> >
> >
> >
> > Even being one of them I dare to say Nova Roma has three very good
> > candidates for Praetores this year which is excellent.
> >
> >
> >
> > Nevertheless I saw in last days the wisdom and capabilities and even the
> > honesty of Aeternia being put under question. So I want to publicly
> declare
> > I believe Aeternia to have all the qualities, skills and honesty to be an
> > optima Praetrix of Nova Roma. More I believe she have demonstrate so in
> this
> > year being the solo Aedilis Curulis for the most of the year.
> >
> >
> >
> > I will vote on Aeternia for Praetor and would like to urge all citizens
> to
> > vote on Aeternia for Praetor.
> >
> >
> >
> > Valete optime.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Ti. Paulino s.p.d.,

You rose something very important, but it is one of the faces of the cursus honorum. In fact a good standing cursus honorum has 3 faces.

A- The allowed minimal age of a candidate for standing a position. (each position having his own allowed minimal age)
B- The order of the positions to stand for step by step.
C- The time out of office between each step.

A true, fair and logical law about the cursus honorum must respond to this 3 faces.

Now, if by lack of citizens or candidates this cursus may not be followed, we have to know why standing for magistracies is not interesting for our citizens, instead of adapting fair and logical law to the pleasure of some individuals who take all the positions by cumulation.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XV Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus Augur omnibus Quiritibus S.P.D.

*Salvete omnes! *As the first day of Saturnalia has passed, and elections
are at hand, here are my thoughts and endorsements so far -

First of all, I ask you all to support me and vote for me for consul!

I support my good friend Cn. Cornelius Lentulus for rogator! He is a person
of good experience and character!
I also support L. Decia Flora for rogator! I have met her in person, and
can say that she seems like an excellent candidate!

I support Gaius Petronius Dexter for praetor! His heroic stand as tribune
during the "Second Civil War" speaks to his honorable dedication to NR's
laws!
I also support Gaius Aemilius Crassus for praetor! He was my colleague in
the tribunate, and I can say he is extremely reliable and dependable!

As my colleague for the consulship, I ask that you vote for Cn. Iulius
Caesar! Caesar and I have discussed our plans for next year to reform Nova
Roma, and we can work together very well to make NR healthy and strong
again!

For the censorship, it is a difficult decision, as we have so many fine
candidates! First, I support Tiberius Galerius Paulinus for censor! He is a
person of experience and integrity.
I also support my cousin Aula Tullia Scholastica for the censorship. While
Scholastica and I haven't always gotten along perfectly, I acknowledge that
she has some of the best experience in the *censura *for processing new
citizens, and a growing citizenship is something NR definitely needs!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XV Kalendas Ianuarius; hic dies fastus est.

"For the next three years there was neither settled peace nor open
war. The consuls were Q. Cloelius and T. Larcius. They were succeeded
by A. Sempronius and M. Minucius. During their consulship a temple was
dedicated to Saturn and the festival of the Saturnalia instituted. The
next consuls were A. Postumius and T. Verginius. I find in some
authors this year given as the date of the battle at Lake Regillus,
and that A. Postumius laid down his consulship because the fidelity of
his colleague was suspected, on which a Dictator was appointed. So
many errors as to dates occur, owing to the order in which the consuls
succeeded being variously given, that the remoteness in time of both
the events and the authorities make it impossible to determine either
which consuls succeeded which, or in what year any particular event
occurred. Ap. Claudius and P. Servilius were the next consuls. This
year is memorable for the news of Tarquin's death. His death took
place at Cuma, whither he had retired, to seek the protection of the
tyrant Aristodemus after the power of the Latins was broken. The news
was received with delight by both senate and plebs. But the elation of
the patricians was carried to excess. Up to that time they had treated
the commons with the utmost deference, now their leaders began to
practice injustice upon them. The same year a fresh batch of colonists
was sent to complete the number at Signia, a colony founded by King
Tarquin. The number of tribes at Rome was increased to twenty-one." -
Livy, History of Rome 2.21

"Welcome to the Saturnalia!
The Circle of the Year is cut in fourths,
and in the ancient lands of Greece and Rome
the darkening time from autumn equinox
to winter solstice was the time to plow
and plant the ground, to store away the seeds.
When this was done the people rested through
the winter months, until the Sun returned.
Three ancient Gods are honored at this time:
Saturnus, Ops and Consus are Their names.
Now listen to the Myth of Saturn's reign..."
- Apollonius Sophistes, "A Winter Solstice Ritual" (1996)


"Before the dinner proper came sea hedgehogs; fresh oysters, as many
as the guests wished; large mussels; sphondyli; field fares with
asparagus; fattened fowls; oyster and mussel pasties; black and white
sea acorns; sphondyli again; glycimarides; sea nettles; becaficoes;
roe ribs; boar's ribs; fowls dressed with flour; becaficoes; purple
shellfish of two sorts. The dinner itself consisted of sows' udder;
boar's head; fish-pasties; boar-pasties; ducks; boiled teals; hares;
roasted fowls; starch pastry; Pontic pastry." - Macrobius, Saturnalia
Convivia, III.13

"The resemblance between the Saturnalia of ancient and the Carnival of
modern Italy has often been remarked; but in the light of all the
facts that have come before us, we may well ask whether the
resemblance does not amount to identity. We have seen that in Italy,
Spain, and France, that is, in the countries where the influence of
Rome has been deepest and most lasting, a conspicuous feature of the
Carnival is a burlesque figure personifying the festive season, which
after a short career of glory and dissipation is publicly shot, burnt,
or otherwise destroyed, to the feigned grief or genuine delight of the
populace. If the view here suggested of the Carnival is correct, this
grotesque personage is no other than a direct successor of the old
King of the Saturnalia, the master of the revels, the real man who
personated Saturn and, when the revels were over, suffered a real
death in his assumed character. The King of the Bean on Twelfth Night
and the mediaeval Bishop of Fools, Abbot of Unreason, or Lord of
Misrule are figures of the same sort and may perhaps have had a
similar origin." - James Frazer, The Golden Bough, Ch. 58. "Human
Scapegoats in Classical Antiquity"


Today is the second day of the Saturnalia.

IO SATURNALIA!

Cato

Cato Voluso sal.

WHAT? No "Annual Nova Roma Pre-Christmas Smackdown"? This is unheard of, my good man! I shall have to think of more outrageous things to do before my office expires!

Vale bene et IO SATURNALIA!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Cowham <nykcowham@...> wrote:
>
> Volusus Cato sal.
>
> I respectfully decline the bait, but thanks for offering :D
>
> Volusus.

Cato Petronio Dextero Galerio Paulino omnibusque in foro SPD

I agree wholeheartedly that we should amend the law regarding the cursus to ensure that no-one holds a magistracy two years in a row, as was the case in ancient Rome. If I remember correctly, Galerius Paulinus, you broached the subject again more recently in the ill-fated consular committee on laws to which we both belonged last year. I can certainly dig it up again for people to read.

Valete bene et IO SATURNALIA!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius Mariae Caecae Valerioque Voluso Tribuno Plebis s.p.d.,
>
> Things are not a suchs manicheism nor something about mistake or not. Not put in comparison the mos maiorum with our laws. All is the question to give a sense to the concept of cursus honorum. If the current NR mess allowed by the law is called a cursus honorum, so it is normal and legal that the cursus honorum in Nova Roma is a mess.
>
> Why a mess? Because all the steps or level of this so called cursus honorum in NR laws are on the same level. As if you make a scale with all rungs at the same level. Even if you call it scale, because made with rungs, it is not a scale if all rungs are on the same level.
> The cursus honorum is not a race to obtain the magistracy you want but ascending duties that we stand for step by step.
>
> Now the problem is to know if we want a true cursus honorum or a mess so called cursus honorum. Because of the name cursus honorum sounds honorable and hides a mess.
>
> The NR law about this pseudo "cursus honorum" show the evidence that a good standing cursus honorum was not the real goal of this law.
>
> We have the choice to leave things as they are, because it is the Law. Or more adults we know that laws must be changed in order to make true, fair and logical the things. In this case having a true, fair and logical cursus honorum.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. XV Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>

C. Tullius Valerianus omnibus S.P.D.

Just to weigh in on this - so aside from exercising *praeteritio, *a
favorite rhetorical device of the Romans (bringing attention to a matter by
saying "I've decided not to even mention the fact that . . ."), I'm a
little disturbed by the implications of so many people saying that
political expedience is more important than what is right. But no one is
coming out and saying what they think is *wrong. *

I presume that the problem is that Sulla swore an oath not to do what he is
now trying to do, and plenty of people privately swore that it could never
be allowed to happen that the CFO hold any other office, and now that seems
to be changing because it is more politically expedient? Well, there
is no *legal
*basis for such hesitation, as has been noted, so let us note that he has
every legal right to run. I do not support his candidacy, and will be
voting for Caesar as my colleague, though if the voters should decide that
Sulla and I be colleagues in the consulship, I am sure we can work
together, as we have so often in the past.

It is strictly between Sulla, his own conscience, and whatever god of gods
witnessed his oath not to run, that he has decided to do so. That is a
private matter, so everyone raising their eyebrows ought to either state
their objection or let it go.

Valete

On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 7:29 AM, Nicholas Cowham <nykcowham@...>wrote:

> Salve Iulia,
>
> You actually express my own sentiments concerning this edict, almost
> exactly. A very big stink could be made, and in better times such a stink
> would be made. However, like you, I don't think it serves anyone's interest
> right now to put up any opposition to this. I am not inclined to point out
> the obvious flaws. I have been chewing on this all day and conclude that
> cooperation is more prudent right now. However, reliance on the prudence
> and good-will of others should not be taken for granted or abused.
>
> Vale,
>
> Volusus
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 9:11 PM, luciaiuliaaquila <
> luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Iulia Cato cos. Quiritibusque S.P.D.
> >
> > I am allowing myself some amusement in this Edict. A few chuckles
> actually
> > as i think of such a post, such a edict, being posted in years past. It
> > would have taken on a life of its own.
> > Today you can hear a pin drop.
> > However, in order to save NR we must have a modicum of cooperation, and
> > this stands as a way to that means, so i shall reserve any legal
> objection.
> >
> > VIVAT NOVA ROMA
> >
> > Vale, et valete
> >
> > Julia
> >
> >
> > --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Cato omnibus in foro SPD
> > >
> > > In view of the fact that Cornelius Sulla wishes to offer his services
> to
> > the Respublica in a magisterial office, and that he took an oath to
> resign
> > as CFO if he ran for office, I will consider him officially resigned as
> > CFO, thus fulfilling his oath to the Senate.
> > >
> > > In view of his expertise and intimate and ongoing knowledge of our
> > finanncial situation, in view of the authority vested in me by the
> > Constitution of Nova Roma to, as consul, "issue those edicta (edicts)
> > necessary to engage in those tasks which advance the mission and function
> > of Nova Roma" (Const. N.R. IV.2.b),
> > >
> > > EX OFFICIO C. EQUITI CATONI CONSULIS
> > >
> > > I hereby appoint Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix as interim CFO of Nova
> > Roma, Inc. until and unless either the Senate of Nova Roma or future
> > consuls find necessary to relieve him of those duties.
> > >
> > > Given by my hand this a.d. XVIII Kal. Ian. P. Ullerio Venatori C.
> Equiti
> > Catoni coss.
> > >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Voluso sal.

I empathize with the sentiment behind what you're saying here, Volusus, but disagree somewhat in the specifics. There is not a "single" over-arching and eternal mos maiorum. At its heart, a mos is simply the custom and culture of a specific group of people, so our mos is by necessity and definition different from every other mos observed by every other group of people.

We are not ancient Romans, so we cannot possibly assume for ourselves the mos maiorum of the ancient Romans. We cannot demand that we act precisely within the strictures of the mos of ancient Rome - that has been tried and failed, miserably and appropriately. We can take what we understand to be their mos as a set of guidelines, but we must form our own mos.

Does this lessen our "romanitas"? Not a bit. We can observe the ancient calendar; we can vote by tribe and century; we can assume tripartite names; we can be togate; we can assume the magisterial titles - all these are steps by which we use outward and visible signs to evidence and inward and spiritual harmony with the ancients.

When we create our mos, either on purpose or by default, we are acting just like the ancient Romans; a little more self-aware of it, of course, but the adaptation of our mos to the practicalities (both the good and the bad) of our own time and place is eminently Roman.

Vale bene et IO SATURNALIA!

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Cowham <nykcowham@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete Galeri Pauline, Maria Caeca et omnes,
>
> Yes, I think it is an interesting topic. In a way there can really only be
> one mos maiorem. It is the way of the ancients. Due to modern circumstances
> and constraints Nova Roma has to depart from the mos maiorem in quite a
> number of ways. Though we might loosely talk about a "new" mos maiorem,
> really we should be keeping in mind that the aim is to honor the way of the
> ancients as much as possible, even though with modifications. We certainly
> may, and already have, developed a distinctive NR character and customs,
> and they may merge into the modified mos maiorem over time.
>
> As you say, the realities of our current circumstances makes it expedient
> to suspend the mos maiorem, but that does not mean that we fully dispense
> with it. In the future, and if the gods allow, Nova Roma will grow and
> florish and we may again be able to honor the mos maiorem correctly. Having
> said that, I have the greatest respect for citizens, such as Petronius
> Dexter, who choose to follow the mos maiorem in their own magisterial
> careers in Nova Roma. I believe that shows the proper respect to our
> ancestors.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Volusus
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:53 AM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <
> spqr753@...> wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> >
> > Salvete Tribune Valerio Volusus and Maria Caeca, If you mean the ancient
> > Roman mos maiorem, and the practice of serving and then spending a year out
> > ofoffice I would agree with you. However, in Nova Roma it would seam that
> > our mos maiorem has explicitly been developed that does not requiretime out
> > of office. In fact when I was Consul I proposed a Lex that codified the
> > ancient Roman practice and it was rejectedat the polls by the people. Go
> > figure. The argument against codifying the practice was always the same. We
> > do not have enough peoplewilling to stand and serve. An interesting topic.
> > Valete Ti. Galerius Paulinus
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus Augur Catoni consuli et Voluso tribuno
S.P.D.

Salvete! If I may, I would like to take the opportunity to agree with Cato
here. As Volusus knows, the literal translation of *mos maiorum *(note the
spelling, *maiorUM, *not *maiorEm*) is "the custom/way of the
elders/ancestors." Hence, as time goes on, they "way they used to do
things" can change, since the way the Romans did things in the time of
Romulus and Numa was not the same as the Republic, the Empire, or even in
the consulship of Flavius Vedius Germanicus and Marcus Cassius Iulianus,
our *patres patriae. *Trying to maintain the "way of our ancestors" is
always coupled with awareness that we are *NOT *our ancestors. The concept
of "progress" is possible for Romans, we are not doomed to stagnation! But
we have a healthy respect for tradition, and I sometimes think *mos maiorum
*can be thought of more as a "traditional Roman mindset" than a specific
set of practices and customs.

Valete!

On Sun, Dec 18, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Cato <catoinnyc@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Cato Voluso sal.
>
> I empathize with the sentiment behind what you're saying here, Volusus,
> but disagree somewhat in the specifics. There is not a "single"
> over-arching and eternal mos maiorum. At its heart, a mos is simply the
> custom and culture of a specific group of people, so our mos is by
> necessity and definition different from every other mos observed by every
> other group of people.
>
> We are not ancient Romans, so we cannot possibly assume for ourselves the
> mos maiorum of the ancient Romans. We cannot demand that we act precisely
> within the strictures of the mos of ancient Rome - that has been tried and
> failed, miserably and appropriately. We can take what we understand to be
> their mos as a set of guidelines, but we must form our own mos.
>
> Does this lessen our "romanitas"? Not a bit. We can observe the ancient
> calendar; we can vote by tribe and century; we can assume tripartite names;
> we can be togate; we can assume the magisterial titles - all these are
> steps by which we use outward and visible signs to evidence and inward and
> spiritual harmony with the ancients.
>
> When we create our mos, either on purpose or by default, we are acting
> just like the ancient Romans; a little more self-aware of it, of course,
> but the adaptation of our mos to the practicalities (both the good and the
> bad) of our own time and place is eminently Roman.
>
> Vale bene et IO SATURNALIA!
>
> Cato
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Nicholas Cowham <nykcowham@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete Galeri Pauline, Maria Caeca et omnes,
> >
> > Yes, I think it is an interesting topic. In a way there can really only
> be
> > one mos maiorem. It is the way of the ancients. Due to modern
> circumstances
> > and constraints Nova Roma has to depart from the mos maiorem in quite a
> > number of ways. Though we might loosely talk about a "new" mos maiorem,
> > really we should be keeping in mind that the aim is to honor the way of
> the
> > ancients as much as possible, even though with modifications. We
> certainly
> > may, and already have, developed a distinctive NR character and customs,
> > and they may merge into the modified mos maiorem over time.
> >
> > As you say, the realities of our current circumstances makes it expedient
> > to suspend the mos maiorem, but that does not mean that we fully dispense
> > with it. In the future, and if the gods allow, Nova Roma will grow and
> > florish and we may again be able to honor the mos maiorem correctly.
> Having
> > said that, I have the greatest respect for citizens, such as Petronius
> > Dexter, who choose to follow the mos maiorem in their own magisterial
> > careers in Nova Roma. I believe that shows the proper respect to our
> > ancestors.
> >
> > Valete bene,
> >
> > Volusus
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 19, 2011 at 1:53 AM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <
> > spqr753@...> wrote:
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Salvete Tribune Valerio Volusus and Maria Caeca, If you mean the
> ancient
> > > Roman mos maiorem, and the practice of serving and then spending a
> year out
> > > ofoffice I would agree with you. However, in Nova Roma it would seam
> that
> > > our mos maiorem has explicitly been developed that does not
> requiretime out
> > > of office. In fact when I was Consul I proposed a Lex that codified the
> > > ancient Roman practice and it was rejectedat the polls by the people.
> Go
> > > figure. The argument against codifying the practice was always the
> same. We
> > > do not have enough peoplewilling to stand and serve. An interesting
> topic.
> > > Valete Ti. Galerius Paulinus
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]