Salve,

This incident is a computer intrusion resulting in a disruption of
operations of a U.S. registered corporation, and that is a serious Federal
crime in the United States. Perhaps our incumbent Praetor Iulius Caesar
will be able to advise the consul on reporting this incident to the Cyber
Crime Division of the FBI, if that should be deemed the most appropriate
response.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/cyber/computer-intrusions

Vale,

Volusus

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 7:34 AM, <q.caecilius.metellus@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Q Caecilius Metellus Quiritibus s.d.
>
> Saluete, Quirites.
>
> As one of the individuals handling the operation of our elections, I want
> to second what our consul has said, in that there is nothing that indicates
> either of the candidates mentioned (nor, for that matter, *any* of the
> candidates) were involved in the present situation.
>
> That said, I have only so much to say to whomever the perpetrator(s) may
> be: You tried to hurt us. You failed. For my part, I've got a bowl of rice
> and a pair of chopsticks. It's time for the Romans to eat.
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
>



--
V. Valerius Volusus
Tribunus Plebis

*Public servant*: you don't need any prior introduction to contact me in
private if you
have any problems, worries or concerns about any aspect of Nova Roman
government.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Equitius Cato consulis Valerio Voluso omnibusque in foro SPD

The consul will be taking every appropriate measure available once we have determined the origin of this incident.

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Vibius Valerius Volusus <volvsvs@...> wrote:
>
> Salve,
>
> This incident is a computer intrusion resulting in a disruption of
> operations of a U.S. registered corporation, and that is a serious Federal
> crime in the United States. Perhaps our incumbent Praetor Iulius Caesar
> will be able to advise the consul on reporting this incident to the Cyber
> Crime Division of the FBI, if that should be deemed the most appropriate
> response.
>
> http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/cyber/computer-intrusions
>
> Vale,
>
> Volusus

Citizens

I, Q. Fabius Maximus again reiterate why I request your vote for the
Censorship.

If big changes are coming to NR on both the corporate side and the State,
it would be good to have the Magistrates of the Censorship working in
concert.
With myself and Galerius we have worked on numerous Senate projects
together, we know each other, and we have broken bread together.
I have held every office but one in Nova Roma, this is the last rung on my
Cursus Honorum. I held them not for the Century points nor did I hold them
for Gloria, rather I held them because I am a NR citizen and I believe
strongly in F. Vedius Germanicus and M Cassius Iulliunius' project.
I have been involved non-stop in NR since my arrival. Because of my vocal
disdain of certain new concepts
by late arriving individuals I landed on a bunch of "lists" that spread
distortions about me and Nova Roma.
So,

1. I never wished to be dictator of Nova Roma.

2. I'm not against rapid growth here in Nova Roma as some say I am. But I
am against rapid growth for simple growth sake.
I don't believe that enfranchising a bunch of uninterested members are any
indication of growth.

3. I am independently wealthy, which I say only because there was rumors I
was using Nova Roma to make money. I don't need Nova Roma's money. That
also makes me un bribable.

4. Yes, I'm good friends with two Consul Candidates and three Praetor
Candidates, but what does that have to do with anything in the Censorship?

5. I do believe that NR is going need more money from the Membership if it
is going to accomplish its goals but I never once suggested that NR
encourage temple prostitution to do so.

Hopefully, this will cause the internet rumors to be put to rest, and
allow you dear citizen to vote for me Q. Fabius Maximus with no reservations.

Valete

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Voluso sal.

Indeed Tribune, indeed it is a very serious offence, regardless of the size of the corporation. I and my colleague will pursue that necessary action with the Consuls when we have the information from VPN. I know from my own macronational dealings with the Bureau that their plates are full, but eventually all such reports are assigned to an agent.

The reach of the Bureau is long, and if they detect a suspect it will make travel to any country that has an extradition treaty with the US impossible. If the person(s) responsible are outside of the US in a country with an extradition treaty, due process will take place. Actions such as these have consequences far beyond the res publica, something some people here often forget.

Optime vale

----- Original Message -----
From: "Vibius Valerius Volusus" <volvsvs@...>
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 5:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] ELECTION INTERFERENCE


> Salve,
>
> This incident is a computer intrusion resulting in a disruption of
> operations of a U.S. registered corporation, and that is a serious Federal
> crime in the United States. Perhaps our incumbent Praetor Iulius Caesar
> will be able to advise the consul on reporting this incident to the Cyber
> Crime Division of the FBI, if that should be deemed the most appropriate
> response.
>
> http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/cyber/computer-intrusions
>
> Vale,
>
> Volusus
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iulia Iulio sal,

CnIC>Amica, you have added >another three adjectives >to my list - aggressive,

>unyielding and brutal ;)

Just recycling the same old adjectives with synonyms:>)

CnIC>It will be my colleague, >the Senate, the Tribunes >and the people who will >exert influence, not the >Praetors.

Well certainly not if the Praetor is easily influenced. 
You oversimplified the dynamics of the interplay between the magistrates.
And underestimated the intelligence of the citizens .

CnIC>I really would think that >now of all times we >should be seeking >cohesion in the

>magistrates, 

If, as you say, the Praetores have no influence then it only follows that they do not figure in the "cohesive" equation and so it matters not.  Unless "cohesive" truly means "amiable enough to go along with the will of he who holds Consular Imperium."

CnIC>which is why I strongly >suggested to the voters >they choose

>Aeternia (...)

Again This sounds like  "cohesive" to you truly means "amiable enough to go along with the will of he who holds Consular Imperium."

CnIC>Clealry Dexter can't >work with Aeternia, >whereas she can

Petronius reputation is that he has done a fine job in the past  in various cohors - getting along with all he has worked with. Petronius is professional - I have no doubt that both Petronius and Aeternia would get along - but Petronius and Crassus would be better Praetores. 

 I thought the discussions between you and Petronius  are very interesting. Business plans are best if they are flexible enough to be revised. Expect revisions and rather than becoming even more defensive explore that aspect more thoroughly.  If there is no challenge than there is usually no improvement. 


CnIC>This really does seem >more and more about >your personal issues >with Aeternia

Mine is a purely objective assessment based on different aspects of the equation adding up to my political opinion. 
Aeternia and I worked on projects together as colleagues in a professional amiable relationship. No more, no less. 

We have cohesion. We have a body of citizens that are still standing. Still here voting. Putting their trust in You. However you just may have to compromise. This is politics and this you know. As for personal - it appears the dynamic between you and Aeternia is quite personal as well. You sure do a lot of protesting against any naysaying regarding Aeternia. Almost as much as you defend your plan. Because she is apparently part of your plan. 
You are a candidate for Consul, not an appointment to Dictator. 

Optime vale

Julia

>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: luciaiuliaaquila
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 3:23 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Team Caesar & Dexter: DIVERSITY
>
>
>
> L. Iulia Aquila Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
> After reading the discourse between Petronius Dexter and Iulius Caesar I am even more convinced that we have more diversity amongst the candidates.
> It is a wise check and balance system to do so!
> I support Caesar for Consul and Petronius for Praetor for the very reason that this combination will be progressive yet keep the romanitas in the equation.
>
> I like Aeternia, but not for Praetor in 2012, next year maybe ( and she would be taking the traditional year off as well.) She is a lovely young woman and looks up at Caesar as a paternal figure and mentor, this in itself lends her to be easily influenced if he is elected Consul. It is also important to note that she also lives in the same house as Sulla, who may also be the next Consul - and as a family she will also be influenced if he is elected Consul. This can't be helped - it is human nature to be thusly psychologically and socially influenced - even without a word passed between them. This influence is just not virtual - it is physical, proximal.
> I do not feel she could stand up to such a strong personality such as Caesar who has shown how aggressive, unyielding and brutal he can be when he is defending his plan - we need someone who has an equally strong political constitution who is also able to not only think on his feet but also has the legal and Roman knowledge on the tip of his tongue and does not have to "come back later" after looking things up or conferring with friends.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter, proud plebeian and defender of Romanitas is above the influence and will not cave in when pressured or agree so he will be liked however he will explore and discuss the issues thoroughly and will come to
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Salvete

This is unconscionable and puerile. Illegal as well. And more material for Nova Roma Revealed.

Valete

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cato" <catoinnyc@...> wrote:
>
> C. Equitius Cato consulis omnibus in foro SPD
>
> I have some difficult and disturbing news to share with you, Nova Romans.
>
> In communications with VPN, the company that runs and supports the software we have adopted for our voting purposes, it has been discovered that apparently an outside agency, using information found in our censorial database, accessed the cista and voted for many of you.
>
> To quote from the VPN report:
>
> "My leading hypothesis is that someone in your organization has obtained the voter identification list. That is, they must know the citizen ID, postal code, and birthday of the voters....I don't know of a way they could have obtained the voter info via our system without being a voting admin with knowledge of a voter admin user ID and password for your organization. Maybe they got the info another way from your organization records?"
>
> The answer to this, of course, is that magistrates who have since left Nova Roma - including most specifically those who left after being denied their takeover bid last year - still are in control of many admin passwords for our records and database - something that we have been struggling with them over for the entire year, with them refusing to release vital passwords and control.
>
> The timing of the votes - again from the VPN report - is 1.19am-2.57am US Eastern time, and the votes were *all* cast for Aula Tullia Scholastica and Gaius Petronius Dexter, although there is NO INDICATION that either of them is in ANY WAY involved.
>
> I am appalled that anyone - anyone - would sink so low as to interfere with the electoral process, be they citizen or former citizen. Eric at VPN also notes that this is "the first such incident we [the company] have had happen." VPN and our election officials are now investigating precisely where these votes camev from (tracing IP addresses, etc.) and we should know exactly where this originated.
>
> As soon as I know anything, I will let you all know.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>

Caesar Iuliae sal,

If you see Dexter in the role as an "enforcer" of romanitas as praetor, then the role doesn't afford him any advantage. He can't enforce a wet paper bag against a consul as praetor. If you see him as I do, as a valuable contributor, he doesn't need to be praetor to do that. As I intend to ensure the Tribunes can manage to debates initially in the Senate live, without waiting for the end of the session, I will invite comments from all and listen to all suggestions and debate them with the proposer. I am sure many good ideas can come to the fore which can be incorporated. Dexter is already in the Senate, he is Pontifex Maximus, and thus his influence is established. He doesn't need a pointy hat of praetor on his head to reinforce it. It is after all smaller than the consuls hat:) He can contribute fully and with my warm gratitude just as he is now. His views will still have the same relevance and weight with or without the praetorship.

As to the better praetor, well I have seen paragons of romanitas (or so they told us, or their friends did) in that chair before, and a large number became the worst tyrants you could imagine, gagging people left right and center for no just or lawful cause, just because people had different views, wanted to voice them, or wouldn't be gagged without a struggle. We have had one who held law a degree, knew Roman law well, but failed miserably to read Nova Roman law. He presided over two trials that many still hold was a farce and show trial, with numerous abuses of rights, the Constitution and our laws thrown in for good measure. For me what makes a good praetor is common sense, a fair mind and one not wedded to some rigid doctrine of romanitas that can get shoved down people's throats.

Yes, Dexter gave excellent service during the coup but Aeternia gave her own outstanding service as Curule Aedile, and she has not only a fair mind, but she has showed remarkable restraint in the face of continuing attacks on her personality. I want a praetor like that, one that won't bite back with the club of moderation, or drum their version of Romanitas into others as we have seen before. This year it is vital the ML be able to function freely. Now it is all personal preference and ultimately the voters will decide, but I like her style. Its not my style, but I like it. You obviously don't. Fair enough, but I think I have every right to say I like it and think she will do well as much as you say the opposite, no?

Oh, as to why I advocate for Aeternia, well of course it is personal. I have known her for a number of years and I think she deserves someone in her corner in the face of these postings which do border on personal attacks - some would say cross the line. Of course I want to see her elected, both as a thank you from the people for an unseen and thankless task of pulling the ludi together, which were excellent, and is never an easy task, and because I know I will gain more traction with her as praetor not having to worry about the ML suddenly experiencing a change of flavor and a tightening on moderation. The laws on moderation which Dexter referred to are rather woolly. You can make a case for anything out of them, as we saw in the past. I'd rather have her mind in there. No disrespect to Dexter, just a preference on my part. One less thing to worry about if I am elected. Huge blow ups in the Forum won't be very productive this coming year nor will complaints over excessive and rigid moderation help our goals.

I know Iulia I am not a candidate for Dictator, firstly because the office as structured is illegal under Maine law, and secondly because a Dictator gets appointed not elected. Candidate for Consul or not, I will advocate for a friend who has shown her strong character by not biting back, though by now a number of us wouldn't have blamed her for some sort of harder response, and who I think deserves a chance to progress. That's all. Not everything is a plot ;) A simple choice and preference with no disrespect to Dexter. You have your preferences and advocate for them here, and I do mine. Democracy in action eh? :)

Optime vale.

----- Original Message -----
From: luciaiuliaaquila
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 6:05 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Team Caesar & Dexter: DIVERSITY



Iulia Iulio sal,

CnIC>Amica, you have added >another three adjectives >to my list - aggressive,
>unyielding and brutal ;)

Just recycling the same old adjectives with synonyms:>)

CnIC>It will be my colleague, >the Senate, the Tribunes >and the people who will >exert influence, not the >Praetors.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Liburnius Hadrianus Catoni salutem

Consul, the code of each individual elector is present in each  citizen's page. I just obtained yours (starting with 7) by selecting your page.
You may want to explore ways to close this security exposure in future.

Respectfully 
A. Liburnius



________________________________
From: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 4:22 P M
Subject: [Nova-Roma] ELECTION INTERFERENCE


 
C. Equitius Cato consulis omnibus in foro SPD

I have some difficult and disturbing news to share with you, Nova Romans.

In communications with VPN, the company that runs and supports the software we have adopted for our voting purposes, it has been discovered that apparently an outside agency, using information found in our censorial database, accessed the cista and voted for many of you.

To quote from the VPN report:

"My leading hypothesis is that someone in your organization has obtained the voter identification list. That is, they must know the citizen ID, postal code, and birthday of the voters....I don't know of a way they could have obtained the voter info via our system without being a voting admin with knowledge of a voter admin user ID and password for your organization. Maybe they got the info another way from your organization records?"

The answer to this, of course, is that magistrates who have since left Nova Roma - including most specifically those who left after being denied their takeover bid last year - still are in control of many admin passwords for our records and database - something that we have been struggling with them over for the entire year, with them refusing to release vital passwords and control.

The timing of the votes - again from the VPN report - is 1.19am-2.57am US Eastern time, and the votes were *all* cast for Aula Tullia Scholastica and Gaius Petronius Dexter, although there is NO INDICATION that either of them is in ANY WAY involved.

I am appalled that anyone - anyone - would sink so low as to interfere with the electoral process, be they citizen or former citizen. Eric at VPN also notes that this is "the first such incident we [the company] have had happen." VPN and our election officials are now investigating precisely where these votes camev from (tracing IP addresses, etc.) and we should know exactly where this originated.

As soon as I know anything, I will let you all know.

Valete bene,

Cato




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave, Tribune,

That is only one part. You would also need his zip code and birthdate.
Were you able to get that information as well?

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Bruno Zani <reenbru@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> A. Liburnius Hadrianus Catoni salutem
>
> Consul, the code of each individual elector is present in each citizen's
> page. I just obtained yours (starting with 7) by selecting your page.
> You may want to explore ways to close this security exposure in future.
>
> Respectfully
> A. Liburnius
>
> ________________________________
> From: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 4:22 P M
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] ELECTION INTERFERENCE
>
>
>
>
> C. Equitius Cato consulis omnibus in foro SPD
>
> I have some difficult and disturbing news to share with you, Nova Romans.
>
> In communications with VPN, the company that runs and supports the
> software we have adopted for our voting purposes, it has been discovered
> that apparently an outside agency, using information found in our censorial
> database, accessed the cista and voted for many of you.
>
> To quote from the VPN report:
>
> "My leading hypothesis is that someone in your organization has obtained
> the voter identification list. That is, they must know the citizen ID,
> postal code, and birthday of the voters....I don't know of a way they could
> have obtained the voter info via our system without being a voting admin
> with knowledge of a voter admin user ID and password for your organization.
> Maybe they got the info another way from your organization records?"
>
> The answer to this, of course, is that magistrates who have since left
> Nova Roma - including most specifically those who left after being denied
> their takeover bid last year - still are in control of many admin passwords
> for our records and database - something that we have been struggling with
> them over for the entire year, with them refusing to release vital
> passwords and control.
>
> The timing of the votes - again from the VPN report - is 1.19am-2.57am US
> Eastern time, and the votes were *all* cast for Aula Tullia Scholastica and
> Gaius Petronius Dexter, although there is NO INDICATION that either of them
> is in ANY WAY involved.
>
> I am appalled that anyone - anyone - would sink so low as to interfere
> with the electoral process, be they citizen or former citizen. Eric at VPN
> also notes that this is "the first such incident we [the company] have had
> happen." VPN and our election officials are now investigating precisely
> where these votes camev from (tracing IP addresses, etc.) and we should
> know exactly where this originated.
>
> As soon as I know anything, I will let you all know.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> C. Equitius Cato consulis omnibus in foro SPD
>
> I have some difficult and disturbing news to share with you, Nova Romans.
>
> In communications with VPN, the company that runs and supports the software we
> have adopted for our voting purposes, it has been discovered that apparently
> an outside agency, using information found in our censorial database, accessed
> the cista and voted for many of you.
>
> ATS: Do you mean voted on behalf of (that is, in place of) many of us?
>
> To quote from the VPN report:
>
> "My leading hypothesis is that someone in your organization has obtained the
> voter identification list. That is, they must know the citizen ID, postal
> code, and birthday of the voters....I don't know of a way they could have
> obtained the voter info via our system without being a voting admin with
> knowledge of a voter admin user ID and password for your organization. Maybe
> they got the info another way from your organization records?"
>
> The answer to this, of course, is that magistrates who have since left Nova
> Roma - including most specifically those who left after being denied their
> takeover bid last year - still are in control of many admin passwords for our
> records and database - something that we have been struggling with them over
> for the entire year, with them refusing to release vital passwords and
> control.
>
> The timing of the votes - again from the VPN report - is 1.19am-2.57am US
> Eastern time, and the votes were *all* cast for Aula Tullia Scholastica and
> Gaius Petronius Dexter, although there is NO INDICATION that either of them is
> in ANY WAY involved.
>
> ATS: This is shocking. I know that I am rather popular among my
> students, but my guess is that I am less so among, say, the current holders of
> the magistracies, almost all of whom belong to a rather different political
> faction. I can guarantee you that I am not involved; I am happily finishing
> up the correction of the last bit of the Grammatica II exam, and moreover do
> not possess the skills to tinker with the voting software (or any software,
> for that matter). Now possibly someone is doing this not to guarantee that
> Dexter and I win this election, but rather that we lose it by making us look
> bad. Making NR as a whole look bad is not an outside possibility, either.
> Now who would want that? Guess. Who has access to the voting software?
> Supposedly only three people do. Who has access to the identifying
> information? Well, the citizen ID is public information, and several people
> know my address, and some know my birthday. One does not have to have access
> to the censorial database in order to know that; some of us exchange
> snail-mail correspondence privately. One also does not have to assume that
> former magistrates are involved. However one must point out that access to
> the database had to be partitioned due to the complaints of the resigned
> censor¹s cohors; we can no longer create new accounts there because the
> database is not under our full control. Last I heard, we cannot prevent
> unauthorized changes to the wiki by former citizens, and possibly we also
> cannot prevent access to the database by others.
>
> I am appalled that anyone - anyone - would sink so low as to interfere with
> the electoral process, be they citizen or former citizen. Eric at VPN also
> notes that this is "the first such incident we [the company] have had happen."
> VPN and our election officials are now investigating precisely where these
> votes camev from (tracing IP addresses, etc.) and we should know exactly where
> this originated.
>
> ATS: I am also appalled. I might point out that we have had incidents of
> election fraud in the past, in which several people voted from a single
> computer, etc., but this tops all of them. Now just possibly someone is so
> upset with Dexter and myself that s/he wants to make us look bad, and has done
> a good job. Otherwise I am far more popular than I could ever have
> imagined...surely I wasn¹t with Saturninus or Quintilianus (neither was
> Avitus). Alby? After what he did?
>
> Is it possible that everyone in a given area / time zone voted for Dexter
> and me...without fraud? Or were multiple citizen IDs from different zones
> used? How many votes were involved?
>
> Can the IP address be faked by a knowledgeable person? Spammers seem to
> have found ways...
>
> This indeed makes NR, and all of us, look VERY bad.
>
> As soon as I know anything, I will let you all know.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> Vale, et valete.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

Just wanted to send a brief statement, the Cista is open (the link is on
the website).

Please go ahead and vote now...if you need your voter code, please contact
Censor Sabinus or Metellus for it.

Good luck to all the candidates!

Respectfully,

Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

To say that I am outraged by this would be an understatement, but, since it will accomplish nothing to hurl invective (or physically throttle) persons as yet unknown, I will simply point out that this highlights the need for us to get full control of all our working tools, so that we have sole access to them, and so that we can ensure their security.

In addition, while on the surface this seems to make us look bad, (or utterly incompetent), it doesn't. Now the perpetrators ...ah, that's another matter, indeed, but I will let the appropriate magistrates deal with them.

I see this as an attack on our Res Publica ...an attack that failed, and failed miserably. We (well, our VPN associates, caught it, and we were able to undo any real damage from being done, and will, I am positive, be able to conduct our elections in confidence and safety. If the attempt was to do us damage, it failed. If the attempt was to diminish our confidence in ourselves and in our voting solution, it failed. If the attack had the intent of diminishing this organization in any way, it failed, as will any future attempts.

I'm not saying that this isn't serious, it is. What I am saying is that we blocked this attempt quickly and efficiently, that we will continue to do so, and that when we retaliate, we will do so, in any legal way we can.

Valete!
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Romans,

Today is a black day in Nova Roman history. An attempt has been made to steal the
ability of Romans to elect their own leaders. I hope and pray that when their identities
are known the authorities will use every law, Nova Roman and macro national to
punish this person or persons to the fullest extent of the law.

While it is a black day because of these illegal
events it is also a good day because we had the ability to determine that it
was going on. While it is an inconvenience to our election officials and a slap
in the face of every Nova Roman it will pass. Those of us who are still here,
new and old citizen alike, are actively working to right the ship of state. While most of us, even all of us who are
citizens, are working to solve problems a few miscreants are still playing
games.

When we know who they are the law will show them
that this is not a game. They will
discover that interfering in our internal affairs may have given them a few
moments of pleasure but will, in the end, bring them years of legal troubles and
sanctions .

Valete

Ti. Galerius Paulinus



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Caesar

>If you see Dexter in the >role as an "enforcer" of >romanitas as praetor, >then

You said that not I. You know better than anyone no one can enforce Romanitas 

A lot of words consobrine  .  The same old same old. 
Pointy hats yada yada. Well guess what? You're going to have your very own pointy hat soon!!!
Of course you know this - it's almost a given - no need for you to be diplomatic. 
 I have seen confrontations, (including assessments and opinions that would singe hairs) that you have been involved in that make my opinion look like a sonnet. So you talking about crossing the line raises an eyebrow. 
Your admonishments amuse me.  I spoke truths that are documented. Style has nothing to do with it. Maturity, discretion are lacking - you coming to her rescue do nothing for her. 
 
As for Petronius, he can defend himself. 

CnIC>>because I know I will >gain more traction with >her as praetor not >having to worry about >the ML suddenly >experiencing a change >of flavor and a >tightening on >moderation. 

Exactly ! So you finally admit your plan! No obstacles from the Praetura!!! Thank you.

I think you are "Maior-shocked" - we are not in danger of that sort of moderation from any of the candidates - there probably won't be any changes to moderation of the main list according to what the candidates have said. 
It looks like you are going to get your chance at the helm, i'd go as far as say it is a sure thing, and I hope for the sake of the Respublica you are successful and not on the receiving end of the same kind of  vicious brutality you levied upon Consul Cato.

 Bene Vale

Julia

Caesar Iuliae sal.

I don't think that I said I don't want any obstacles from the praetura. What I think I said and certainly meant was that I don't want the praetura to cause obstacles for Nova Roma. Every Consul wants that. Needless blow ups exacerbated by heavy handed moderation isn't the sign of a good praetura in action, rather one out of control or out of touch at best. I think we both know that whoever sits in the praetura or as consul, the praetura cannot obstruct the consuls for long. Small issue of a larger imperium stick resting with the consuls, no? The praetura can disagree, but if it goes to actual obstruction, well that would be a short lived contest whoever the personalities were.

As to vicious brutality, well I think Cato still has his arms, legs and head and isn't in traction in a hospital bed, so I really don't see a series of stiff verbal exchanges as "vicious brutality", but you do so fair enough :) Having seen the after affects of "vicious brutality" as a police officer, I tend to view such hyperbole as rather like (as some people do) claims that one has been virtually raped. It rather demeans the actual reality of such situations to tie them to a verbal exchange, in my mind anyway.

Now if I am ever on the receiving end of "vicious brutality", I will deal with it. I always seem to deal with things, but I don't believe I have ever experienced "vicious brutality" in Nova Roma as a "victim", so I can add being mugged to my list of novel experiences gained by being here.

As I believe in being prepared though, where does one buy virtual mace or a virtual taser? I'll add it to my to do list if I am elected. Sounds like a job for the Curule Aediles, if we ever get any, to stock the Macellum up ;)

Optime vale

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "luciaiuliaaquila" <luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:
>
> Ave Caesar
>
> >If you see Dexter in the >role as an "enforcer" of >romanitas as praetor, >then
>
> You said that not I. You know better than anyone no one can enforce Romanitas 
>
> A lot of words consobrine  .  The same old same old. 
> Pointy hats yada yada. Well guess what? You're going to have your very own pointy hat soon!!!
> Of course you know this - it's almost a given - no need for you to be diplomatic. 
>  I have seen confrontations, (including assessments and opinions that would singe hairs) that you have been involved in that make my opinion look like a sonnet. So you talking about crossing the line raises an eyebrow. 

Ave Sulla

I input my ID, my voter code and my birthday and the cista does not recognize me.

Vale

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...> wrote:
>
> Ave!
>
> Just wanted to send a brief statement, the Cista is open (the link is on
> the website).
>
> Please go ahead and vote now...if you need your voter code, please contact
> Censor Sabinus or Metellus for it.
>
> Good luck to all the candidates!
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Q Caecilius Metellus Quiritibus salutem dicit.

Saluete, Quirites.

Given the events of today, we have opted to use a randomly generated
alphanumeric codes. Equally, given the available methods for
disseminating the codes, we have determined that the best method will
be to have the voters contact the voting officials to obtain this
final piece of authentication.

Therefore, to obtain your voter code, please send an email to Censor T
Iulius Sabinus and myself, requesting your voter code. Please include
your citizen ID number in your message, and be sure to send your email
from the email address of record. (If you are unsure of which email
address you have on file, please contact me privately for additional
directions.)

Quirites, it is important that you email *both* Sabinus and myself, to
ensure that you receive a response as quickly as possible.

In advance, I thank you for your patience and cooperation, and look
forward to the many votes we will see present in this round of voting.

Di nos custodiant!

C. Petronius Dexter C. Equitio Catoni consuli omnibusque Quiritibus a. p.d.,

> The timing of the votes - again from the VPN report - is 1.19am-2.57am US Eastern time,
> and the votes were *all* cast for Aula Tullia Scholastica and Gaius Petronius Dexter,
> although there is NO INDICATION that either of them is in ANY WAY involved.

First at this time, 1. 19 - 2.57 am US Eastern time, id est 7.19 - 9.57 I was not at home and without access to the Internet. How the VPN report can give my name? I know that I am not involved in that, but I find not very clever to publicly give my name as a possible guilty. Of course it is clever and malicious in this time of elections. Because writing my name as a possible guilty is not fair at this time of the investigation and voting time and put the doubt on my honesty.

Second that shows me that my login and password to access to the database is known by other that me. If someone can pick the IP addresses of access on the database, he will see that I did not access to the database in those days.

> I am appalled that anyone - anyone - would sink so low as to interfere with the electoral process,
> be they citizen or former citizen. Eric at VPN also notes that this is "the first such incident
> we [the company] have had happen." VPN and our election officials are now investigating
> precisely where these votes camev from (tracing IP addresses, etc.) and we should know
> exactly where this originated.

I hope that this company make swiftly its investigation, I know that I am not guilty and I want to know who knows and uses my login and my password.

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. VI Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete

I just voted and it went very well! Thank you to this who worked so quickly to get the cista back up and running - and secure!

Valete

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@...> wrote:
>
> Q Caecilius Metellus Quiritibus salutem dicit.
>
> Saluete, Quirites.
>
> Given the events of today, we have opted to use a randomly generated
> alphanumeric codes. Equally, given the available methods for
> disseminating the codes, we have determined that the best method will
> be to have the voters contact the voting officials to obtain this
> final piece of authentication.
>
> Therefore, to obtain your voter code, please send an email to Censor T
> Iulius Sabinus and myself, requesting your voter code. Please include
> your citizen ID number in your message, and be sure to send your email
> from the email address of record. (If you are unsure of which email
> address you have on file, please contact me privately for additional
> directions.)
>
> Quirites, it is important that you email *both* Sabinus and myself, to
> ensure that you receive a response as quickly as possible.
>
> In advance, I thank you for your patience and cooperation, and look
> forward to the many votes we will see present in this round of voting.
>
> Di nos custodiant!
>

Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

I just voted, also, and it worked flawlessly. As always, I urge all who can, to vote, and, given recent events, showing our support for Nova Roma by casting our vote demonstrates to anyone and everyone, especially those who will us harm, that we will not be deterred, nor even pause when conducting the business of the Res Publica.

Valete!
C. Maria Caeca, Sacerdos Vestae and proud Plebeian citizen of Nova Roma.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve et Salvete Omnes:

I have just voted as well and quite seamlessly even. My thanks to the
Electoral Staff for their swift actions in rectifying a most terrible
situation.

Vale et Valete bene,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia


*"Fortes fortuna iuvat"*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Sulla,
I agree with you. You can not extract birthdate and zip code from the data published on individual citizen's web pages.
  
Respectfully,
A. Liburnius Hadrianus 

From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] ELECTION INTERFERENCE

Ave, Tribune,

That is only one part.  You would also need his zip code and birthdate.
Were you able to get that information as well?

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Mon, Dec 26, 2011 at 6:55 PM, Bruno Zani <reenbru@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> A. Liburnius Hadrianus Catoni salutem
>
> Consul, the code of each individual elector is present in each  citizen's
> page. I just obtained yours (starting with 7) by selecting your page.
> You may want to explore ways to close this security exposure in future.
>
> Respectfully
> A. Liburnius
>
> ________________________________
> From: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 4:22 P M
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] ELECTION INTERFERENCE
>
>
>
>
> C. Equitius Cato consulis omnibus in foro SPD
>
> I have some difficult and disturbing news to share with you, Nova Romans.
>
> In communications with VPN, the company that runs and supports the
> software we have adopted for our voting purposes, it has been discovered
> that apparently an outside agency, using information found in our censorial
> database, accessed the cista and voted for many of you.
>
> To quote from the VPN report:
>
> "My leading hypothesis is that someone in your organization has obtained
> the voter identification list. That is, they must know the citizen ID,
> postal code, and birthday of the voters....I don't know of a way they could
> have obtained the voter info via our system without being a voting admin
> with knowledge of a voter admin user ID and password for your organization.
> Maybe they got the info another way from your organization records?"
>
> The answer to this, of course, is that magistrates who have since left
> Nova Roma - including most specifically those who left after being denied
> their takeover bid last year - still are in control of many admin passwords
> for our records and database - something that we have been struggling with
> them over for the entire year, with them refusing to release vital
> passwords and control.
>
> The timing of the votes - again from the VPN report - is 1.19am-2.57am US
> Eastern time, and the votes were *all* cast for Aula Tullia Scholastica and
> Gaius Petronius Dexter, although there is NO INDICATION that either of them
> is in ANY WAY involved.
>
> I am appalled that anyone - anyone - would sink so low as to interfere
> with the electoral process, be they citizen or former citizen. Eric at VPN
> also notes that this is "the first such incident we [the company] have had
> happen." VPN and our election officials are now investigating precisely
> where these votes camev from (tracing IP addresses, etc.) and we should
> know exactly where this originated.
>
> As soon as I know anything, I will let you all know.
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Dextro sal.

No, the Consul was saying that the people responsible for the fraud voted for you as a candidate, not that they used your login in details. They also voted for Scholastica.

Optime vale

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Petronius Dexter
To: Nova Roma
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] ELECTION INTERFERENCE



C. Petronius Dexter C. Equitio Catoni consuli omnibusque Quiritibus a. p.d.,

> The timing of the votes - again from the VPN report - is 1.19am-2.57am US Eastern time,
> and the votes were *all* cast for Aula Tullia Scholastica and Gaius Petronius Dexter,
> although there is NO INDICATION that either of them is in ANY WAY involved.

First at this time, 1. 19 - 2.57 am US Eastern time, id est 7.19 - 9.57 I was not at home and without access to the Internet. How the VPN report can give my name? I know that I am not involved in that, but I find not very clever to publicly give my name as a possible guilty. Of course it is clever and malicious in this time of elections. Because writing my name as a possible guilty is not fair at this time of the investigation and voting time and put the doubt on my honesty.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Cn. Caesari sal.,

> Dexter is hardly in any better position with the office of Praetor than without it to stand for romanitas.

Praetorship is the step of my cursus honorum, I am standing for it this year. Is it a problem for you? Apparently it is a problem for you because we fought together 2 years ago against the coup, but you do not endorse my candidacy, in preferring individuals whose you only notice their ability to manage the Ludi, and as an evidence of efficiency the CPT elections managed by Crassus alone. Aeternia merits all our praise for her care towards the people's fun, and Crassus not only this care towards the people's fun but also to his voting right.

But I remind you, if you do not remember, that as new elected Pontifex Maximus I privately wrote to you to do not forgot the Ludi of Apollo. At this time the Senate and the Fora were very silent, if you remember, and I did not want that an offense towards the god was made by forgotting his Ludi. So, if you are honest, you know that last year I was not unconcerned by the Ludi of Apollo. And moreover I publicly practiced the opening ritual of the Ludi Megalenses asked by the aedilis Aeternia and the opening ritual to the Cerealia asked by the tribune Crassus. Secondly, as you know, I also was a tribune of the Plebs who managed elections alone at the end of 2763 and more, without electronic cista. At those elections you were elected Praetor.

So logically you did not endorse my candidacy for other reasons that the reasons publicly said.

>>> I really would think that now of all times we should be seeking cohesion in the magistrates, which is why I strongly suggested to the voters they choose Aeternia and Crassus.<<<

Cohesion for you is it to prevent any feedbacks?

> Clealry Dexter can't work with Aeternia,

Not clearly, only according to your mind. As I never worked with Aeternia neither with Crassus, except at their asking to practice opening rituals of the Ludi, you clearly can say nothing about my ability to work with or Aeternia or Crassus.

> whereas she can work with anyone.

Who can work with anyone can work with nobody. Who is everywhere is nowhere. (Seneca)

> It seems an open and shut choice by virtue of that alone. Aeternia and Crassus.

As your major and minor premises are not certified, logically your conclusion is wrong.

> Dexter doesn't need any office to be an effective voice,

Who spoke on my "need"? Praetorship is a step of the cursus honorum and is needed on my way to follow step by step the cursus. But it is not a need for me, it is the occasion for me to serve Nova Roma and to give people a fair justice with a fair and independent Praetor.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. VI Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXIV


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

SALVE ET SALVETE!

Petroni Dexter and Scholastica, you were voted by someone with database access in almost all centuries. That was possible by someone with former access to our database and not using your account and password. What it mean that former access? Is someone who last year worked in the censorial office, had access to database and because the accounts and passwords were not changed from then (the host of censorial tools refused to do that - in fact unresponsive to request)  still have access to the database. So, he/she took from there the elements for vote authentication, logged in the name of our citizens and voted. That was confirmed by VPN based of our request for clarification. Now is only a matter of time to identify the IP of respective person.

Our consul do not give your name. The VPN do not give your name. In fact no name of our candidates is given. Consul Cato only pointed out that your name and of Scholastica is out of discussion.  Therefore clarification you ask is not necessary. At last, no one from our candidates is responsible for what happen. 
There is not any doubt about your honesty or other candidate.

VALE,
Sabinus
 
"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius


________________________________
From: Gaius Petronius Dexter <jfarnoud94@...>
To: Nova Roma <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:29 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] ELECTION INTERFERENCE


 
C. Petronius Dexter C. Equitio Catoni consuli omnibusque Quiritibus a. p.d.,

> The timing of the votes - again from the VPN report - is 1.19am-2.57am US Eastern time,
> and the votes were *all* cast for Aula Tullia Scholastica and Gaius Petronius Dexter,
> although there is NO INDICATION that either of them is in ANY WAY involved.

First at this time, 1. 19 - 2.57 am US Eastern time, id est 7.19 - 9.57 I was not at home and without access to the Internet. How the VPN report can give my name? I know that I am not involved in that, but I find not very clever to publicly give my name as a possible guilty. Of course it is clever and malicious in this time of elections. Because writing my name as a possible guilty is not fair at this time of the investigation and voting time and put the doubt on my honesty.

Second that shows me that my login and password to access to the database is known by other that me. If someone can pick the IP addresses of access on the database, he will see that I did not access to the database in those days.

> I am appalled that anyone - anyone - would sink so low as to interfere with the electoral process,
> be they citizen or former citizen. Eric at VPN also notes that this is "the first such incident
> we [the company] have had happen." VPN and our election officials are now investigating
> precisely where these votes camev from (tracing IP addresses, etc.) and we should know
> exactly where this originated.

I hope that this company make swiftly its investigation, I know that I am not guilty and I want to know who knows and uses my login and my password.

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. VI Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Dextro sal.

You didn't speak of any need for the praetura, I was replying to a post from Iulia where it seemed she was making the case that you should be praetor as it would somehow, or so I thought the point, increase your effectiveness in keeping romanitas in current in the changes I would propose were I to be elected. I didn't see the logic in that as you will be no more effective or less effective whether you win or not in keeping romanitas alive and kicking.

I have no problem at all with you Dexter, I just had to make a choice from the candidates. I also think we all in our own way, those that are left, stood against the coup.

Anyway, it is just the business of elections and having to make a choice. I think you are a fine chap, and that doesn't change just because I endorsed Aeternia. I just happen to think that at this moment she would be an excellent choice. It's just an opinion :)

Optime vale

----- Original Message -----
From: Gaius Petronius Dexter
To: Nova Roma
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 10:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Team Caesar & Dexter: DIVERSITY



C. Petronius Cn. Caesari sal.,

> Dexter is hardly in any better position with the office of Praetor than without it to stand for romanitas.

Praetorship is the step of my cursus honorum, I am standing for it this year. Is it a problem for you? Apparently it is a problem for you because we fought together 2 years ago against the coup, but you do not endorse my candidacy, in preferring individuals whose you only notice their ability to manage the Ludi, and as an evidence of efficiency the CPT elections managed by Crassus alone. Aeternia merits all our praise for her care towards the people's fun, and Crassus not only this care towards the people's fun but also to his voting right.

But I remind you, if you do not remember, that as new elected Pontifex Maximus I privately wrote to you to do not forgot the Ludi of Apollo. At this time the Senate and the Fora were very silent, if you remember, and I did not want that an offense towards the god was made by forgotting his Ludi. So, if you are honest, you know that last year I was not unconcerned by the Ludi of Apollo. And moreover I publicly practiced the opening ritual of the Ludi Megalenses asked by the aedilis Aeternia and the opening ritual to the Cerealia asked by the tribune Crassus. Secondly, as you know, I also was a tribune of the Plebs who managed elections alone at the end of 2763 and more, without electronic cista. At those elections you were elected Praetor.

So logically you did not endorse my candidacy for other reasons that the reasons publicly said.

>>> I really would think that now of all times we should be seeking cohesion in the magistrates, which is why I strongly suggested to the voters they choose Aeternia and Crassus.<<<

Cohesion for you is it to prevent any feedbacks?

> Clealry Dexter can't work with Aeternia,

Not clearly, only according to your mind. As I never worked with Aeternia neither with Crassus, except at their asking to practice opening rituals of the Ludi, you clearly can say nothing about my ability to work with or Aeternia or Crassus.

> whereas she can work with anyone.

Who can work with anyone can work with nobody. Who is everywhere is nowhere. (Seneca)

> It seems an open and shut choice by virtue of that alone. Aeternia and Crassus.

As your major and minor premises are not certified, logically your conclusion is wrong.

> Dexter doesn't need any office to be an effective voice,

Who spoke on my "need"? Praetorship is a step of the cursus honorum and is needed on my way to follow step by step the cursus. But it is not a need for me, it is the occasion for me to serve Nova Roma and to give people a fair justice with a fair and independent Praetor.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a.d. VI Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXIV

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Dexter Cn. Caesari sal.,

> No, the Consul was saying that the people responsible for the fraud voted for you as a candidate, not that they used your login in details. They also voted for Scholastica.

Ok. I read and understood that this people had an access to the NR Citizens database and voted whith the logins of Scholastica and mine.
My apologies for my misunderstanding.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. VI Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

Salvete Romans, I have just voted and it was very easy. I wish to thank all of the election officials for the job they are doing. Thanks!!!!!!! All Romans should get out and vote for the candidates of their choice. Thanks to all the candidates for standing. Valete Ti. Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius T. Sabino censori s.p.d.,

> There is not any doubt about your honesty or other candidate.

Thank you, Sabine, for your explanation. Your words and your exposition of the facts are more understandable, responsible and professional that the emotive mail of Cato which explains nothing and seemed to me bring suspicion on Scholastica and me.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. VI Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

SALVE ET SALVETE!

You are welcome, Petroni Dexter.

I wish you success in election. I know each praetura candidate has merits to take over the office. That is without doubts. 

For me you are the first choice. I really appreciate your sincerity and honesty and I know you keep in your heart the best interests of NR. Your actions proves that more than the words.

You took one year off running for offices following the best interpretation of mos maiorum. You renounced to take the advantage of your great commitments during the fights of the last year not running for office. That is modesty and honesty. An example to follow.

Citizens of Nova Roma! You have as candidate for praetura one of our the best. There is not any reason to not vote for him and in fact voting for Petronius Dexter you vote for correctness and the greatest Roman republican values. Nova Roma needs that. Nova Roma deserve that.

Vote for honor! Vote for Petronius Dexter as praetor!

VALETE,
Sabinus
 
"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius


________________________________
From: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 8:19 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: ELECTION INTERFERENCE


 
C. Petronius T. Sabino censori s.p.d.,

> There is not any doubt about your honesty or other candidate.

Thank you, Sabine, for your explanation. Your words and your exposition of the facts are more understandable, responsible and professional that the emotive mail of Cato which explains nothing and seemed to me bring suspicion on Scholastica and me.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. VI Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica T. Julio Sabino quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> SALVE ET SALVETE!
>
> Petroni Dexter and Scholastica, you were voted by someone with database access
> in almost all centuries. That was possible by someone with former access to
> our database and not using your account and password. What it mean that former
> access? Is someone who last year worked in the censorial office,
>
> ATS: There are a number of possibilities...some are in the RPR, if I am
> not mistaken. There are Albucius¹ scribae, who might want to discredit us.
> There is one woman who fled for no apparent reason, a bilingual Spanish
> speaker...
>
> had access to database and because the accounts and passwords were not
> changed from then (the host of censorial tools refused to do that - in fact
> unresponsive to request)
>
> ATS: Of course, as we in the cohors know very well.
>
>
>  still have access to the database. So, he/she took from there the elements
> for vote authentication, logged in the name of our citizens and voted. That
> was confirmed by VPN based of our request for clarification. Now is only a
> matter of time to identify the IP of respective person.
>
> ATS: Can¹t this be concealed or altered somehow?
>
> Our consul do not give your name. The VPN do not give your name. In fact no
> name of our candidates is given. Consul Cato only pointed out that your name
> and of Scholastica is out of discussion.  
>
> ATS: Why drag us through the mud (other than to assure the election of the
> candidates from the former Boni faction), especially if other candidates were
> affected, or the names of the affected candidates were unknown?
>
>
> Therefore clarification you ask is not necessary. At last, no one from our
> candidates is responsible for what happen. 
>
> ATS: I should hope not. This is appalling, and any idea that Petronius
> or I was responsible is beyond insulting as well as beyond insane. I think it
> would have been better to refrain from naming the candidates for whom these
> improper votes were cast, for that alone tars us. First the date is
> questioned despite the edict in an attempt to remove me, then the names of two
> candidates are dragged through the mud despite total innocence.
>
> There is not any doubt about your honesty or other candidate.
>
> ATS: Again, I should hope not. The damage may be done to Petronius and
> myself, however; there are those who will do anything to prevent my election,
> if not his. We are almost the only candidates who do not swallow the party
> line, along with the hook and sinker. As Julia pointed out, diversity here is
> desirable, though I at least do not follow the reasoning behind some of her
> choices.
>
> Let us hope that we can now have an honest election, and one in which no
> candidate is tarred by these outrageous shenanigans.
>
> VALE,
> Sabinus
>
> Vale, et valete.
>  
> "Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gaius Petronius Dexter <jfarnoud94@...
> <mailto:jfarnoud94%40yahoo.fr> >
> To: Nova Roma <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 6:29 AM
> Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] ELECTION INTERFERENCE
>
>
>  
> C. Petronius Dexter C. Equitio Catoni consuli omnibusque Quiritibus a. p.d.,
>
>> > The timing of the votes - again from the VPN report - is 1.19am-2.57am US
>> Eastern time,
>> > and the votes were *all* cast for Aula Tullia Scholastica and Gaius
>> Petronius Dexter,
>> > although there is NO INDICATION that either of them is in ANY WAY involved.
>
> First at this time, 1. 19 - 2.57 am US Eastern time, id est 7.19 - 9.57 I was
> not at home and without access to the Internet. How the VPN report can give my
> name? I know that I am not involved in that, but I find not very clever to
> publicly give my name as a possible guilty. Of course it is clever and
> malicious in this time of elections. Because writing my name as a possible
> guilty is not fair at this time of the investigation and voting time and put
> the doubt on my honesty.
>
> Second that shows me that my login and password to access to the database is
> known by other that me. If someone can pick the IP addresses of access on the
> database, he will see that I did not access to the database in those days.
>
>> > I am appalled that anyone - anyone - would sink so low as to interfere with
>> the electoral process,
>> > be they citizen or former citizen. Eric at VPN also notes that this is
>> "the first such incident
>> > we [the company] have had happen." VPN and our election officials are now
>> investigating
>> > precisely where these votes camev from (tracing IP addresses, etc.) and we
>> should know
>> > exactly where this originated.
>
> I hope that this company make swiftly its investigation, I know that I am not
> guilty and I want to know who knows and uses my login and my password.
>
> Optime valete.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. VI Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Petronio Dextro quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
> C. Dexter Cn. Caesari sal.,
>
>> > No, the Consul was saying that the people responsible for the fraud voted
>> for you as a candidate, not that they used your login in details. They also
>> voted for Scholastica.
>
> Ok. I read and understood that this people had an access to the NR Citizens
> database and voted whith the logins of Scholastica and mine.
>
> ATS: But is this what happened? They used our logins to the database and
> voted? Or did they access the database by other means, and troll for
> citizens?
>
>
> My apologies for my misunderstanding.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. VI Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

Vale, et valete.

>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Ti. Cornelio Scipioni S.P.D.
>
>
> I, Tiberius Cornelius Scipio, humbly present my candidacy for the position of
> Censor.
>
> My fellow citizen aspiring to the same post, undoubtedly have more experience
> than I do; however, I bring a fresh perspective into the office, and if
> elected, I will set an example of cooperation, compromise and moderation.
>
> ATS: Well, the censor¹s office tends not to be a hotbed of controversy,
> but one must bring certain skills to it. Do you know Latin? The censor must
> upon occasion resolve disputes over the Latin form of a proposed name, and it
> is best to be familiar with Latin and with nomenclature issues. We have two
> Latinists who have been trained in these matters, Lentulus and myself, and
> another, Petronius, who has a text intended to produce fluency in spoken and
> written Latin, but which on its own does not teach Latinization or
> nomenclature. For that one must have taken the Sermo Latinus courses I teach,
> and it is even better to have been present while our nomenclature research was
> in progress, as I was.
>
> My personal qualifications are as follow: I hold a Master Degree on Management
> of Information Systems, a B.A. in Business and in Political Science. For the
> last 15 years I have been a manager of projects and I have worked in the
> Americas (North, Central and South), Africa and Europe. Again, I may not be
> too experienced as my fellow citizen on the ballot, but I have a solid
> track-record of meeting deadlines, accomplishing tasks and team-building in
> organizations to achieve success.
>
> You sound very well qualified to be a consular quaestor, maybe curule
> aedile, probably assistant to the webmaster / CIO / whatever. We have
> vacancies in the aedileship, and could probably put your skills to good use
> there and elsewhere.
>
> Aside from my lacking Censorial experience, or my solid personal
> qualifications, I stand before you guaranteed by neither, but I stand moved by
> my passion for Roman history and traditions, and is my intention, if elected,
> to commit on contributing to the growth and expansion of our res publica.
>
> ATS: We need that sort of enthusiasm.
>
> I ask you for your support in this election, I will not let you down.
>
> TCS+
>
> Vale!
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you for your observation,

I was already a consular quaestor a few years ago.

Yes, i could be assistant to the webmaster, considerying I have 2 employees that have that title/function, that follow my instructions on an everyday basis in a webhosting company I own, probably would be a well suited function for me.

No doubt there is much work to be done, I just hope whomever gets elected, does not have a 'patrician outlook' that the world owes them something..., but actually moves the organization forward. My concern is not only of modern times, it was a concern shared by ancient roman citizens as well: we want results, not people with unique abilities to decorate the public offices. I say this with no particular person in mind, as I don't know most of you. It just seems we have been collectively slughish over the years, and that we could do better... ... maybe I should have run for Consul... :-)

I am a very upset! Who is it who dares accuse C. Petronius Dexter
deception? The
man is crazy and stupid. Anyone who knows the Pontifex Maximus was, very
valuable to know the truth! There is no law that would prohibit Nova Rome
slander innocent people? This happens during the election that no one dare to
vote honestly? What happened to honesty?
--
Spurius Porcius Gemma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

It is politics. Get used to it.



________________________________
From: Spurius Porcius <gladius.porcius@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 1:31:39 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] :( very upset


 
I am a very upset! Who is it who dares accuse C. Petronius Dexter
deception? The
man is crazy and stupid. Anyone who knows the Pontifex Maximus was, very
valuable to know the truth! There is no law that would prohibit Nova Rome
slander innocent people? This happens during the election that no one dare to
vote honestly? What happened to honesty?
--
Spurius Porcius Gemma

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was a soldier Until now, only a few cases, a lawyer. It is a dirty of
blood, lowers cold running water. This is a very dirty politics but not the
hottest wash bath.
spg


2011/12/27 Ty Sponchia <muskegcorner@...>

> **
>
>
> It is politics. Get used to it.
>
> ________________________________
> From: Spurius Porcius <gladius.porcius@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 1:31:39 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] :( very upset
>
>
>
> I am a very upset! Who is it who dares accuse C. Petronius Dexter
> deception? The
> man is crazy and stupid. Anyone who knows the Pontifex Maximus was, very
> valuable to know the truth! There is no law that would prohibit Nova Rome
> slander innocent people? This happens during the election that no one dare
> to
> vote honestly? What happened to honesty?
> --
> Spurius Porcius Gemma
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
Spurius Porcius Gemma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

No one accused Dexter of ANYTHING. What VotingPlace.net (VPN) did was list
the clear consistency that whoever committed the voter fraud voted for 2
candidates. They were: Scholastica and Dexter. This in NO WAY accuses
them. All it means was that those two candidates would have benefited from
the election fraud. That is a huge difference.

I hope it clears that up for you.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 5:31 AM, Spurius Porcius
<gladius.porcius@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> I am a very upset! Who is it who dares accuse C. Petronius Dexter
> deception? The
> man is crazy and stupid. Anyone who knows the Pontifex Maximus was, very
> valuable to know the truth! There is no law that would prohibit Nova Rome
> slander innocent people? This happens during the election that no one dare
> to
> vote honestly? What happened to honesty?
> --
> Spurius Porcius Gemma
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!
It is quite clear to me. Anyone who has committed no friend but an enemy
of the two men.

Spurius Porcius Gemma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

One of them was a woman. And, do you have any evidence? Sir, really we
cannot jump to any conclusion until we have evidence in hand. Please give
us time to get the information from VPN.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 6:20 AM, Spurius Porcius
<gladius.porcius@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Salve!
> It is quite clear to me. Anyone who has committed no friend but an enemy
> of the two men.
>
> Spurius Porcius Gemma
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!
1) Any person (who) wants to influence the election is not the beginning of
it. Holds the end of the fraud.
2) Always the loud cries out his house on fire! Who lost it when Dexter will
win the election?
3) An IP address can not tell that woman or man who is working on a cumputer
. All I know is the owner!

It's just Logic, no evidence is not, unfortunately. It can not be, as a
citizen is unable to track down the servers.

--
Spurius Porcius Gemma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

As we learned from the sockpuppet episode, an IP address can be VERY VERY
illuminating.
'
Again, I suggest you just calm down and wait for VPN to issue their report
then we can see who the possible individual is. Please try to remain
rational and calm. Ok?

Vale,

Sulla

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 6:47 AM, Spurius Porcius
<gladius.porcius@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Salve!
> 1) Any person (who) wants to influence the election is not the beginning of
> it. Holds the end of the fraud.
> 2) Always the loud cries out his house on fire! Who lost it when Dexter
> will
> win the election?
> 3) An IP address can not tell that woman or man who is working on a
> cumputer
> . All I know is the owner!
>
> It's just Logic, no evidence is not, unfortunately. It can not be, as a
> citizen is unable to track down the servers.
>
> --
> Spurius Porcius Gemma
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

Please let's not create unnecessary controversy based on mere speculation.
The announcement of the attempted voter fraud was transparent and
non-accusatory: although the votes were registered to two particular
candidates, neither of those people are under ANY cloud of suspicion
whatsoever. I cannot be considered a partisan supporter of Consul Cato, by
any stretch, but I feel he has reported this incident responsibly and has
kept us all informed concerning the information that is currently available.

The two candidates mentioned are both Senators: both are highly respected
and TRUSTED citizens. I am confident that Consul Cato and Praetor Caesar
will be taking appropriate actions to defend our Republic, and that they
will keep us fully informed as new information is revealed.

Let us all stay calm and let our election officials do their job without
creating a "dust storm" by indulging in wild accusations that are based on
nothing more than suspicion and speculation.

Thank you to our election officials for quickly detecting the irregularity,
working tirelessly to reconfigure VPN with voter codes and getting our
elections back on track. If we want to start point fingers, then let us
point out Sabinus and Metellus for doing an AWESOME job in responding to
this electional crisis. Condemnations can come later, once the person or
persons responsible have been positively identified. We are Romans! So
let's act like it and not give way to panic, hysteria, or public disorder.

Gratias vobis ago.

Volusus

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 8:20 PM, Spurius Porcius
<gladius.porcius@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Salve!
> It is quite clear to me. Anyone who has committed no friend but an enemy
> of the two men.
>
> Spurius Porcius Gemma
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
V. Valerius Volusus
Tribunus Plebis

*Public servant*: you don't need any prior introduction to contact me in
private if you
have any problems, worries or concerns about any aspect of Nova Roman
government.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Porci Gemma,

On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Spurius Porcius
<gladius.porcius@...>wrote:

> **
> Salve!
>
> 1) Any person (who) wants to influence the election is not the beginning of
> it. Holds the end of the fraud.
>

I don't actually understand this point.

> 2) Always the loud cries out his house on fire! Who lost it when Dexter
> will
> win the election?
>

This is highly speculative. We don't know anything about the motives right
now.

> 3) An IP address can not tell that woman or man who is working on a
> cumputer
> . All I know is the owner!
>

Provided the perpetrator did not have the wit or wherewithal to use a proxy
chain to anonymize their IP connection then the IP will show us at least
the state/country and city where the person is located (if using a public
wifi rather than home DSL/Cable). If they used their own DSL/Cable without
a proxy then they could be traced to their home address by law enforcement
officers.

Even without knowing the actual address (only LEO would be able to get a
court order to order the ISP to release that as part of a criminal
investigation) once we have an IP address I can run it against lists of
proxies to eliminate that possibility, and then most likely trace the IP
address to the ISP and the town/city to which the ISP customer belongs.

> It's just Logic, no evidence is not, unfortunately. It can not be, as a
> citizen is unable to track down the servers.
>

Unless we are dealing with a knowledgeable cyber-criminal the chances are
they left their finger prints and DNA at the scene of crime.

--
V. Valerius Volusus
Tribunus Plebis

*Public servant*: you don't need any prior introduction to contact me in
private if you
have any problems, worries or concerns about any aspect of Nova Roman
government.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve! Thanks Tribune!

--
Spurius Porcius Gemma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Do not EVER use my personal email address again.




V
Fide cani






-----Original Message-----
From: luciaiuliaaquila <luciaiuliaaquila@...>
To: Nova-Roma <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Dec 26, 2011 2:18 pm
Subject: [Nova-Roma] ENDORSEMENTS L. Iulia Aquila





L. Iulia Aquila Quiritibus S.P.D.

I have taken into account many aspects of each candidate, their platforms and answers (and the way they answered) questions posed by myself and others. The
questions I posed, esp. the macro qqs are optional – and no candidate was
obligated to answer any questions asked of them – I did not expect private
details such as a company name, addresses etc. In addition I composed the
questions in a generic way or questionnaire for objectivity and while I know some of these queries do not pertain to every magistracy, I trusted that candidates would do their best and answer what was applicable and what they felt comfortable with. I was not disappointed and I had considered each and every one of the candidates based on, amongst other things, NR history, experience, qualification, abilities, skills and most importantly potential.

CONSUL:
I support Cn. Iulius Caesar for years he has been developing a plan for Nova Roma and it has evolved into its present long term plan and it is time for the Senator to begin to put that plan into action. His qualifications and experience will complement this initiative. With the right colleague Nova Roma may just have a chance.
I support L. Cornelius Sulla as well, the Senator has the qualifications and
experience but also a thorough working knowledge of Nova Roma. In my conversations with Sulla I feel confident that he is sincere in giving Nova Roma a shot at achieving her vision. Moreover he and Cn. Iulius Caesar have worked as colleagues before and have been avid Nova Romans in their interim years when they have not been magistrates keeping themselves current and with their eyes on the pulse of the respublica. They work well together as a cooperative team for the respublica.

For CONSUL I Endorse:
CN. IULIUS CAESAR
L. CORNELIUS SULLA

PRAETOR:
While I support the Consular team of Sulla and Caesar because they have already begun work on some of the initiatives for 2012 and have demonstrated they work
well together HOWEVER there should be more DIVERSITY throughout the magistracies to create a sense of checks and balances in the magistracies. We can't elect only those who are "amicis," sometimes our friends are not always the best fit and may be too apt to agree or go along with a more experienced or lauded amice/friend – esp. if that amice is also considered a mentor.
In this year especially we need Praetores, who are able to take office and the
praetura with little outside advice - esp, from the Consuls who will be busy
with extremely serious duties this year. They must not only be somewhat
knowledgeable of the NR leges but also know it well enough to know how to implement it.
Petronius and Crassus have the political mettle to stand up to such a strong personality such as Caesar who has shown how aggressive, unyielding and brutal he can be when he is defending his plan - we need Petronius who possesses an equally strong political constitution and who has the ability to not only think on his feet but also has legal and Roman knowledge on the tip of his tongue therefore he does not have to "come back later" after looking things up or conferring with friends.
For Praetor I support C. Petronius Dexter, who is the epitome of romanitas, able to remain objective, has excellent qualifications and has no ties to any political faction. We need a strong highly qualified to lead in the Praetura this year and C.Petronius Dexter is this citizen. This year we have a candidate actually qualified for Consul and Censor and, with Petronius, have a qualified candidate for Praetor. Based on our goals and needs for this year vote for the qualified candidate who is a man of the people, the defender of the people- C.Petronius Dexter.
I also support C. Aemelius Crassus who worked successfully together in the past.
C. Aemelius Crassus record is indicative of a well qualified candidate and the endorsements, and the reasons for those endorsements, by those who worked alongside him, affirm my assessment.

For PRAETOR I Endorse:
C. PETRONIUS DEXTER
C. AEMELIUS CRASSUS

CENSOR:
This was a tougher for me than the others, for many reasons. In a recent
discussion on the ML the reason for the staggered terms of Censors was
discussed, and one reason is that is the standing Censor teaches the incoming
one. This is extremely important in this year. With this and all the
qualifications in mind I support Ti. Galerius Paulinus. He knows the Censura
inside out, is moderate in his decision making and I see no better teacher of
his colleague. I have made enquiries and listened to other's assessment of Ti.
Cornelius Scipio's work for the respublica and so in this election I shall be
supporting him. The other two candidates Q. Fabius Maximus and A. Tullia
Scholastica have impressive CHs, and are also very experienced but both come
with controversies that they have not resolved and I think this year we need
those who are known for compromise and moderation in their public demeanor.
And I just would like to see us cut through the balderdash this year so we can
move forward.

For CENSOR I endorse:
TI. GALERIUS PAULINUS
TI. CORNELIUS SCIPIO

VIVAT NOVAE ROMAE !!!

Valete optime,

L. Julia Aquila
Nashvillae scribebat
Senior Censorial Scriba
Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis
Pontifex Novæ Romæ
Praefectus Regio Tennessee: Provincia A.Æ
Procurator: Provincia A.Æ
Sacerdos Prima A.Æ
Ordo Equester
a.d. VII Kal. Ian ‡ P. Ullerio C. Equitio cos.









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato Petronio Dextero sal.

Dexter, there is NO indication that you were involved at all, as I made clear earlier; whoever did this simply cast votes for you and Scholastica. Why? We don't know yet. It's not even that important; finding out the "who" is the important part.

Vale bene,

Cato

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius Dexter C. Equitio Catoni consuli omnibusque Quiritibus a. p.d.,
>
> > The timing of the votes - again from the VPN report - is 1.19am-2.57am US Eastern time,
> > and the votes were *all* cast for Aula Tullia Scholastica and Gaius Petronius Dexter,
> > although there is NO INDICATION that either of them is in ANY WAY involved.
>
> First at this time, 1. 19 - 2.57 am US Eastern time, id est 7.19 - 9.57 I was not at home and without access to the Internet. How the VPN report can give my name? I know that I am not involved in that, but I find not very clever to publicly give my name as a possible guilty. Of course it is clever and malicious in this time of elections. Because writing my name as a possible guilty is not fair at this time of the investigation and voting time and put the doubt on my honesty.
>
> Second that shows me that my login and password to access to the database is known by other that me. If someone can pick the IP addresses of access on the database, he will see that I did not access to the database in those days.
>
> > I am appalled that anyone - anyone - would sink so low as to interfere with the electoral process,
> > be they citizen or former citizen. Eric at VPN also notes that this is "the first such incident
> > we [the company] have had happen." VPN and our election officials are now investigating
> > precisely where these votes camev from (tracing IP addresses, etc.) and we should know
> > exactly where this originated.
>
> I hope that this company make swiftly its investigation, I know that I am not guilty and I want to know who knows and uses my login and my password.
>
> Optime valete.
>
> C. Petronius Dexter
> Arcoiali scribebat
> a. d. VI Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

C. Equitius Cato consulis omnibus in foro SPD

Let me re-iterate, as there seems to be some confusion:

1. person or persons AS YET UNKNOWN logged in AS VARIOUS CITIZENS, using information from our database, to vote numerous (about 56) times

2. the votes this/these person(s) cast were cast for Petronius Dexter and Tullia Scolastica

3. Petronius Dexter and Tullia Scholastica are NOT INVOLVED in this; as far as we know, they are victims of this malicious action as much as the rest of us

4. the magistrates of the Respublica, the election officials, and the staff at VPN (our voting system's host) are working now to identify the IP address from which these votes came

5. once the IP address has been identified, every possible step will be taken to see that the perpetrator(s) will be held accountable by whatever means the Respublica and the corporation have at our disposal

Please, citizens, get your voter code from Metellus and Sabinus and vote, securely, and do not jump to any conclusions or create suspicions where none exist.

VIVAT NOVA ROMA!

Valete bene,

Cato

>
>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Ti. Cornelio Scipioni S.P.D.
>
> Methinks you have mistaken at least some of my words, and may not have
> been alone. My main point was that a censor should be familiar with our
> nomenclature rules, and preferably know some Latin. Essentially I asked if
> you were familiar with either; neither seems to be a common part of the
> curriculum in business school...or in far too many other places in recent
> years. A stiff helping of Roman virtues wouldn¹t hurt, either. You seem
> energetic and devoted, and will make a good magistrate.
>
>
> Thank you for your observation,
>
> I was already a consular quaestor a few years ago.
>
> I saw that you had been quaestor. You have the skills to be a consular
> quaestor, for they are involved with tax collection as a rule, and require
> financial / business skills.
>
> Yes, i could be assistant to the webmaster, considerying I have 2 employees
> that have that title/function, that follow my instructions on an everyday
> basis in a webhosting company I own, probably would be a well suited function
> for me.
>
> We need a webmaster / CIO, but I believe that these are appointive
> offices, not elective ones. We also could do with a new webhost, as there are
> problems with the current one.
>
> No doubt there is much work to be done, I just hope whomever gets elected,
> does not have a 'patrician outlook' that the world owes them something..., but
> actually moves the organization forward.
>
> Here we do not have such outlooks, but some, including magistrates, are
> quite content to watch the world go by. Reality, too, means that we are all
> volunteers here and have lives independent of NR, lives which put many demands
> on us, our time, and our energy.
>
>
> My concern is not only of modern times, it was a concern shared by ancient
> roman citizens as well: we want results, not people with unique abilities to
> decorate the public offices.
>
> Lately we have had a good many decorations in the magisterial offices. We
> have always had some, including those who never even took the oath of office
> or disappeared once they had. Some never fulfilled any of the duties they had
> sworn to perform. Resignation would have been more honorable.
>
> I say this with no particular person in mind, as I don't know most of you. It
> just seems we have been collectively slughish over the years, and that we
> could do better...
>
> Well, there has been quite a bit of sluggishness at times.
>
> ... maybe I should have run for Consul... :-)
>
> I suspect that you would make a good one, but should get some seasoning
> first. It is best to hold at least one office between the quaestorship and
> the consulate before attempting the latter.
>
> Vale optime!
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica Sp. Porcio Gemmae S.P.D.
>
>
>
> I am a very upset! Who is it who dares accuse C. Petronius Dexter
> deception?
>
> Dexter is not the only one who has been named in this.
>
> The
> man is crazy and stupid. Anyone who knows the Pontifex Maximus was, very
> valuable to know the truth! There is no law that would prohibit Nova Rome
> slander innocent people?
>
> There is, but some dislike it. If Dexter is slandered by this, so am I.
> Both are completely innocent, as Cato has pointed out. Both of us are
> victims, and will probably lose votes as if we had been guilty of this
> outrage.
>
> This happens during the election that no one dare to
> vote honestly? What happened to honesty?
>
> Honesty is found but rarely. However, what we seem to have here is that
> someone compromised our election system using the citizen database accessible
> to the censorial staff, including that from previous years, not all of whom
> are well-disposed to Nova Roma.
>
> Vale.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica V. Valerio Voluso S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Salve Porci Gemma,
>
> On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Spurius Porcius
> <gladius.porcius@... <mailto:gladius.porcius%40gmail.com> >wrote:
>
>> > **
>> > Salve!
>> >
>> > 1) Any person (who) wants to influence the election is not the beginning of
>> > it. Holds the end of the fraud.
>> >
> I don't actually understand this point.
>
>> > 2) Always the loud cries out his house on fire! Who lost it when Dexter
>> > will
>> > win the election?
>> >
> This is highly speculative. We don't know anything about the motives right
> now.
>
> ATS: It looks to me as if someone wants to make NR look very bad, or who
> wants to make Dexter and me look very bad. Or both. There is no shortage of
> people have never cared for NR, or who have become disaffected with NR, and
> would have no problem bringing disgrace to bear on us, individually or
> collectively.
>
>> > 3) An IP address can not tell that woman or man who is working on a
>> > cumputer
>> > . All I know is the owner!
>> >
> Provided the perpetrator did not have the wit or wherewithal to use a proxy
> chain to anonymize their IP connection then the IP will show us at least
> the state/country and city where the person is located (if using a public
> wifi rather than home DSL/Cable). If they used their own DSL/Cable without
> a proxy then they could be traced to their home address by law enforcement
> officers.
>
> ATS: Some years ago, we had a controversy in Latinitas because the young
> daughter of a member had accessed his computer in his absence and sent
> material which was at best jingoistic and highly inappropriate to the list in
> question. More recently, a citizen was blamed when in fact someone else may
> have used his computer. I had received spam sent from said computer without
> the owner¹s knowledge. Is there any means available to determine who used a
> given computer? Is there any means to exonerate the innocent? Would it be
> possible for someone to filch my IP address, or Dexter¹s, and blame one of us?
>
> Even without knowing the actual address (only LEO would be able to get a
> court order to order the ISP to release that as part of a criminal
> investigation) once we have an IP address I can run it against lists of
> proxies to eliminate that possibility, and then most likely trace the IP
> address to the ISP and the town/city to which the ISP customer belongs.
>
> ATS: And couldn¹t this be used to blame the innocent?
>
>> > It's just Logic, no evidence is not, unfortunately. It can not be, as a
>> > citizen is unable to track down the servers.
>> >
> Unless we are dealing with a knowledgeable cyber-criminal the chances are
> they left their finger prints and DNA at the scene of crime.
>
> ATS: And if we ARE dealing with someone who is very knowledgeable, what
> then?
>
> Vale optime.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica L. Juliae Aquilae S.P.D.
>
>
>
> L. Iulia Aquila Quiritibus S.P.D.
>
>
> <snip>
>
>
> CENSOR:
>
> The other two candidates Q. Fabius Maximus and A. Tullia
> Scholastica have impressive CHs, and are also very experienced but both come
> with controversies that they have not resolved and I think this year we need
> those who are known for compromise and moderation in their public demeanor.
>
> ATS: I don¹t think I have any unresolved controversies. My temperament
> and political outlook are both moderate, but some things, Julia, should not be
> compromised. I intend to advocate for Latin, and for good behavior. Few
> classicists would do otherwise.
>
>
> And I just would like to see us cut through the balderdash this year so we can
> move forward.
>
> ATS: I agree, but we must also cut through the indisposition to do
> ANYTHING. Ditto any paranoid notions that, as you put it, apparently cause
> some to think that any of us is Maior-shocked, and that any candidate would
> impose her lunatic moderation style on anyone merely because said candidate
> has not been baptized into the current version of the True Faith. Hortensia
> is sui generis. Deis gratias...
>
>
> VIVAT NOVAE ROMAE !!!
>
> Valete optime,
>
> L. Julia Aquila
> Nashvillae scribebat
> Senior Censorial Scriba
> Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis
> Pontifex Novæ Romæ
> Praefectus Regio Tennessee: Provincia A.Æ
> Procurator: Provincia A.Æ
> Sacerdos Prima A.Æ
> Ordo Equester
> a.d. VII Kal. Ian ‡ P. Ullerio C. Equitio cos.
>
> Vale.
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius C. Catoni Quiritibusque s.p.d.,

>>> Dexter, there is NO indication that you were involved at all, as I made clear earlier; <<<

I know, but you published my name into the first message which pointed out a voting fraud and investigation by VPN. During the voting process. This message at least is tactless. You were not forced to publish the names for what candidates someone voted with irregularities.

Remind me the English name of the figure of style in which someone says : "He is not stupid, far from it!"

Even if ironicaly (or not) he is said not, the word "stupid" is clearly written.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Praetor candidatus
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. V Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica C. Equitio Catoni S.P.D.
>
>
>
> C. Equitius Cato consulis omnibus in foro SPD
>
> Let me re-iterate, as there seems to be some confusion:
>
> ATS: Indeed there seems to be a good deal of confusion.
>
> 1. person or persons AS YET UNKNOWN logged in AS VARIOUS CITIZENS, using
> information from our database, to vote numerous (about 56) times

ATS: Thank you for providing the numbers and further
clarification. As noted earlier, I never knew I was so popular. If I
remember correctly, 56 votes is more than the total number of voters last
year...

>
> 2. the votes this/these person(s) cast were cast for Petronius Dexter and
> Tullia Scolastica
>
> 3. Petronius Dexter and Tullia Scholastica are NOT INVOLVED in this; as far
> as we know, they are victims of this malicious action as much as the rest of
> us
>
> ATS: Indeed we are victims, more so than most, and were not involved;
> Dexter wasn¹t even at his computer, and though I probably was, I was occupied
> with other matters. Very definitely I was not trolling the database for
> citizen names to use for election fraud.
>
> 4. the magistrates of the Respublica, the election officials, and the staff
> at VPN (our voting system's host) are working now to identify the IP address
> from which these votes came
>
> 5. once the IP address has been identified, every possible step will be taken
> to see that the perpetrator(s) will be held accountable by whatever means the
> Respublica and the corporation have at our disposal
>
> Please, citizens, get your voter code from Metellus and Sabinus and vote,
> securely, and do not jump to any conclusions or create suspicions where none
> exist.
>
> ATS: Indeed on both counts. That suspicion would not have been cast on
> Dexter and myself, however, if you had simply mentioned that two candidates
> for different offices received all of these fraudulent votes. There was no
> need to name names, and thereby cast aspersions on us. We have done nothing
> wrong.
>
> Sabinus and Metellus have done a commendable job on all fronts, especially
> in dealing with this emergency; all concerned deserve our heartfelt thanks.
>
> VIVAT NOVA ROMA!
>
> Rectissimé!
>
> Valete bene,
>
> Cato
>
> Vale bene!
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes!

I'd like to share some very informal thoughts with you, in the hope that
they might give you some ideas. When I read Cato Consul's initial post, my
immediate reaction was something like: "how *DARE* they!" Of course, I had,
and have absolutely no idea, at this point who *they* are, but I'll get to
that in a minute. What angered me was that anyone, *anyone* would have the
viciousness to interfere with us, conducting our own business, in our own
way. In short, I felt, (and yes, I am very well aware this is not a
physical fact) that we had suffered an attack. So yeah, for a minute, I was
quite ready and willing to *really* do someone or something real damage.
But, then, I tend to be more than a little emotional. After that passed,
though, the brain (I do have one), engaged. At the very least, what was
done to us was a highly illegal, hostile act; I could speculate about who
did this, and can come up with all sorts of reasons why they might have,
but, these would be speculations only, and reflect nothing more than the use
of my admittedly fertile imagination. So, let me cut to the chase, as I see
it.

A person or persons as yet unknown tried to interrupt our lawful conduct of
our internal business, and they did so by illegal methods. They did not
succeed, thanks to the vigilance of our own election officials (who I have
forgotten to thank, and for that I apologize), and the VPN staff. All
voters were victimized, but especially those candidates who, on the face of
it, seemed to benefit from this fraud. Again, it would be tempting to
assign motivations, and again, doing so would be useless and, at this point,
do more harm than good. I doubt that any of us hold either candidate
accountable in any way whatsoever, however, and I certainly hope that this
continues, whatever the results of the elections.

Someone said that this gives Nova Roma revealed more material. Well, again,
if someone wants to blog about us, even if they are extremely
uncomplimentary, get a lot of their facts wrong, or spin the few they do get
right in the most vicious way they can ...they have that right. But if they
are going to print this story, then let them also print *this*. The Nova
Roman elections continued in an honest and orderly fashion, and our
magistrates are aggressively pursuing information that will lead to the
legal prosecution of the person or people who tried to interfere in our
electoral process. Let's give them something *else* to report too, if they
dare. Let us, all of us who can vote, demonstrate our support for Nova Roma
not by speculating about who did what, but by voting. Let's have the
largest voter turn out we have had *ever* because, this time, in addition to
voting for our candidates of choice, we are voting for Nova Roma herself,
and we are saying, loudly and clearly, that no one will succeed in
interfering with us, and that we *will* conduct our business, electoral and
otherwise, in safety and confidence. Anyone can be assaulted (and before I
am accused of over dramatization, I have been, physically, so I know of what
I speak), but that doesn't mean that the assailant(s) get to win.

Yes, at the very least, someone (or some people) may have tried to make us
look bad or ridiculous. Well, they haven't done that, and they won't,
unless we, the people of Nova Roma *let* them. We, by our reactions can
support the election officials and magistrates, who, quickly and efficiently
took control of our situation back, and it is now up to us to keep that
control firmly in our hands. While we are doing that, I have every
confidence that our current magistrates, and probably next year's
magistrates as well, since I think this task might take some time, will
tirelessly pursue information concerning the perpetrators of this offense,
and when they are found (and they *will* be found) do whatever needs to be
done to ensure that they understand the true cost of interfering with us.

Oops, sorry, didn't mean to rant ...OK, I'm leaving the forum, now ...

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca
Nova Romana sum. Semper Nova Romana ero!

C. Petronius Cn. Caesari Quiritibus salutem dicit,

Your plan, Cn. Caesar, on the future of Nova Roma has the only line of a division of Nova Roma in two organizations: a non-profit one, a private one. With all the problems of a dangerous dichotomy, because of the changes you propose which can definitely damage her internal backbone.

Duality due to the fact that all the voting, legal, calendar and economic set of our Republic is not compatible with the Laws of the Maine towards the non-profit organization. Both organizations affiliated to the Maine. With your proposal of two Novae Romae we directly jump from the early Republic to the Empire West and East division. Let's be cautious that those new Novae Romae do not become a two-faced organization. I know that Nova Roman Fora are in the domain "Yahoo", id est in a Barbarian area. If my Collins concise Thesaurus is right about the word Yahoo meaning.


1- I am not sure that the only choice for Nova Roma is to be an organization affiliated to the Maine. Perhaps may we find another US State or country accross the world in which a non-profit organization can works with our internal voting, judicial, economical, calendar set.

2- If not why we do not decide, by a general vote of the comices, to make Nova Roma, as she is, not 2 organizations but only 1 private organization? So, she mains Nova Roma and we can freely follow our internal settings as close as possible of the ancient Rome.

3- Private Nova Roma will be free, will have her own Internet domain and many other things, with the benefit to follow all our internal settings.

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
Praetor candidatus
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. V Kalendas Ianuarias P. Vllerio C. Equitio coss.

Salvete Omnes! Salutem Omnibus!

We (Cn, and Sp Lentulus Porcius) in Pannonia, fusion was done. Group 2, the
Gladius Association (who are protected by the historic traditions) and the
NR Pannonia, every time we work together, when there is publicity. I am who I
am president, hear the instructions of the pro Preator. It is therefore easy
to be here in Rome.
3 years after the GLADIVS-NOVA ROMA is authentic in Hungary. Although many
people would like to take on Roman clothes. We're real people. The schools
and museums invite us to show the heritage of the ancient Roman civilization
.
Citizens! I do not brag about it! I want to tell you that anyone who accepts
the Roman road, the easy to get along in the civil sphere as well. You do
not have a complete tear. When we put fázunk fire! Everyone makes a branch into
the fire and a more heat! If everyone is removed from the fire itself, will
be warm enough for everyone? Are you sure?

vale
--
Spurius Porcius Gemma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Dextro sal.

No Dexter we don’t jump under my plan to two of Nova Roma. We have an side of Nova Roma Inc. that handles all the non-profit side, the assets, the finances and the other that is focused on building the res publica. Two components all part of one combined whole concept that we know as Nova Roma. It isn’t so much two faces, but two sides.

In my plan: Nova Roma Inc. + res publica = Nova Roma.

You also seemed to have either not grasped or glossed over the fact that the res publica would be a private organization under my plan. That is the way we free ourselves of the oversight in the res publica of macronational laws designed to deal with non-profit corporations.

As to your points:

1. The issue will not be solved by constantly shuffling the corporation around the world. There will always be regulations that we have to abide by and issues we have to deal with. Unless you want to locate us in Somalia where regulation is non-existent unless it is by pirates, then macronational regulation like the poor will always be with us. What I content we need to do is build a structure that can survive, prosper and handle the stresses of being a Roman res publica existing in the middle of a modern world. My plan I believe affords us that chance.

2. As to the vote, as I have stated throughout this election we will do this in an orderly, logical, and fair manner. Debates in the Senate, votes in the Senate, debates in the Forum, contio, votes in comitia. I suggest if I am elected you try to convince the Senate on your proposal. You will require a 2/3rds majority in the Senate to carry your plan. This is exactly why I would go to the Senate first and start the process there. There is no point rushing ahead holding a comitia vote and failing to convince the Senate. Besides, I think the people should, if I am elected, have an opportunity to review my plan. You will have plenty of opportunities to convince both the senate AND the people of your suggestion. Without the support of both of course any idea will fail.

If we were to turn Nova Roma Inc. from a non-profit all our funds which had been donated and most likely the membership fees too, could not be so easily transferred. People have given knowing that the funds are going to a non-profit. It is the same issue as with the disposal of the funds from the MMP. Simply turning those funds over to the control of a private company is most likely not possible. Even if it were, if we think we have issues with financial probity now imagine the likely reaction of people knowing the funds were going into the control of a private organization with little oversight. We would also lose our tax benefits.

3. Yes, but we have those now protected by a non-profit framework. Under my plan they still would have that extra layer of protection, while under yours they would not. My plan, amongst our benefits, aims to free the res publica but maintain the corporate shield around our assets.

Optime vale.

From: petronius_dexter
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:03 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] NR private and non-profit the only twofold choice?


C. Petronius Cn. Caesari Quiritibus salutem dicit,

Your plan, Cn. Caesar, on the future of Nova Roma has the only line of a division of Nova Roma in two organizations: a non-profit one, a private one. With all the problems of a dangerous dichotomy, because of the changes you propose which can definitely damage her internal backbone.

Duality due to the fact that all the voting, legal, calendar and economic set of our Republic is not compatible with the Laws of the Maine towards the non-profit organization. Both organizations affiliated to the Maine. With your proposal of two Novae Romae we directly jump from the early Republic to the Empire West and East division. Let's be cautious that those new Novae Romae do not become a two-faced organization. I know that Nova Roman Fora are in the domain "Yahoo", id est in a Barbarian area. If my Collins concise Thesaurus is right about the word Yahoo meaning.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

V. Valerius Volusus A. Tulliae Scholasticae S.P.D.

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 5:34 AM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...

> wrote:

> **> A. Tullia Scholastica V. Valerio Voluso S.P.D.
>
> > Salve Porci Gemma,
> >
> > On Tue, Dec 27, 2011 at 8:47 PM, Spurius Porcius
> > <gladius.porcius@... <mailto:gladius.porcius%40gmail.com> >wrote:
> >
> >> > **
>
> >> > Salve!
> >> >
> >> > 1) Any person (who) wants to influence the election is not the
> beginning of
> >> > it. Holds the end of the fraud.
> >> >
> > I don't actually understand this point.
> >
> >> > 2) Always the loud cries out his house on fire! Who lost it when
> Dexter
> >> > will
> >> > win the election?
> >> >
> > This is highly speculative. We don't know anything about the motives
> right
> > now.
> >
> > ATS: It looks to me as if someone wants to make NR look very bad, or who
> > wants to make Dexter and me look very bad. Or both. There is no shortage
> of
> > people have never cared for NR, or who have become disaffected with NR,
> and
> > would have no problem bringing disgrace to bear on us, individually or
> > collectively.
>

Again, this is all rather speculative. There are plenty of people who MAY
be responsible. Nova Roma has plenty of enemies, who may have the
motivation to do this. We simply don't have enough information about who of
the many possible aggrieved persons may have done this.

> >> > 3) An IP address can not tell that woman or man who is working on a
> >> > cumputer
> >> > . All I know is the owner!
> >> >
> > Provided the perpetrator did not have the wit or wherewithal to use a
> proxy
> > chain to anonymize their IP connection then the IP will show us at least
> > the state/country and city where the person is located (if using a public
> > wifi rather than home DSL/Cable). If they used their own DSL/Cable
> without
> > a proxy then they could be traced to their home address by law
> enforcement
> > officers.
> >
> > ATS: Some years ago, we had a controversy in Latinitas because the young
> > daughter of a member had accessed his computer in his absence and sent
> > material which was at best jingoistic and highly inappropriate to the
> list in
> > question. More recently, a citizen was blamed when in fact someone else
> may
> > have used his computer. I had received spam sent from said computer
> without
> > the owner¹s knowledge. Is there any means available to determine who
> used a
> > given computer? Is there any means to exonerate the innocent? Would it be
> > possible for someone to filch my IP address, or Dexter¹s, and blame one
> of us?
>

It is possible, but very difficult to do unless you have intimate knowledge
of the IP protocol and can manipulate every data packet to fake the source
IP address. However, we will not be able to trace an IP address down to a
specific computer, only the city where the IP address is allocated. Most of
us will not even have a static IP address, but a new one will be allocated
every time we connect to the internet. That is why LEO have to get a
warrant to order the ISP to identify the customer that a particular IP
address was allocated at a specific time. That is not an investigation
anyone in NR is equipped to do.

The other means of "implicating" another citizen would be to either hack
into your personal computer and install a proxy server on your machine, or
to trick you into installing a computer program that would install a proxy
(i.e. a trojan). Again, that would be something only LEO would be equipped
to investigate. That is why this needs to be reported to the appropriate
macronational law enforcement agencies.

> Even without knowing the actual address (only LEO would be able to get a
> court order to order the ISP to release that as part of a criminal
> investigation) once we have an IP address I can run it against lists of
> proxies to eliminate that possibility, and then most likely trace the IP
> address to the ISP and the town/city to which the ISP customer belongs.
>

> > ATS: And couldn¹t this be used to blame the innocent?
>

It may help eliminate suspects. You would need a lot more evidence than
just the IP address. That is why it should simply be reported to
macronational LEA, since only they have the legal and forensic means to
investigate.

> >> > It's just Logic, no evidence is not, unfortunately. It can not be, as
> a
> >> > citizen is unable to track down the servers.
> >> >
> > Unless we are dealing with a knowledgeable cyber-criminal the chances are
> > they left their finger prints and DNA at the scene of crime.
> >
> > ATS: And if we ARE dealing with someone who is very knowledgeable, what
> > then?
>

Then there is not a lot we can do about it internally, it would have to be
left up to macronational LEA to investigate. Internally, we would only be
able to determine that the the IP address is an open proxy or not. If it
is, then it eliminates as a suspect anyone who is unlikely to be familiar
internet security.

We really need to have more information before speculating and throwing
around unfounded accusations. Most likely, that is precisely the response
the perpetrator was aiming to produce. Let's not give them the
satisfaction, shall we?

--
V. Valerius Volusus
Tribunus Plebis

*Public servant*: you don't need any prior introduction to contact me in
private if you
have any problems, worries or concerns about any aspect of Nova Roman
government.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D.

The censura, or office of censor, is a very important one in Nova Roma,
and one which may be misunderstood by at least some of our citizens. Some
see it solely or primarily as the source of the dreaded notae, which bar
senators from the curia and others from the franchise, but this is only a
tiny and rare element of its function. Normally it is simply the first
place any new citizen contacts, and the one which shepherds him or her
through the first steps leading toward citizenship and participation in our
Res Publica. There we work with the citizens to obtain their Roman names
and to orient them to NR, both directly and indirectly by pointing them to
lists whose purpose it is to answer any questions the tyros have. We try to
make them feel welcome, in part by communicating with them in their own
language insofar as this is possible (though it seems not all holders of
this position have followed this gracious practice), and by treating them
with respect. We answer their questions, and until recently administered a
simple examination for citizenship, just as most nations do, though theirs
are likely to be a good deal more complex than that for Nova Roma. Newer
citizens have also had a probationary period during which they are supposed
to learn about Nova Roma and our Roman-style government, one which differs
significantly from many others in the modern world and therefore requires
some getting used to.

Some among us feel that the probationary period and the citizen
examination, simple though it was, deterred citizens. Well, that may be
true for those who have an inordinate fear of tests of any kind and for the
instant-gratification set, many of whom are, shall we say, rather young, too
young to go to school, but I doubt it affected many others. Likely the
previous practice of interminable waits for the leader of a gens to approve
new members was far more likely to send many away, shaking their heads in
disbelief. The probationary period, or tirocinium, was instituted for a
very good reason, and so was the simple test. These prevented people from
voting immediately upon obtaining citizenship, and therefore voting for
people about whom they knew little or nothing, and they gave many citizens a
feeling of accomplishment that they had passed the test and had completed
the 90 day probationary period. These elements made citizenship in Nova
Roma worth something; it was not automatic and handed out like candy on
Halloween to anyone who knocked at our cybernetic door. As it turns out,
they also kept some highly undesirable individuals, neo-Nazis, from joining
our ranks, though one did slip through until he was found out and encouraged
to depart. As much as we need new citizens, and active ones, we can very
well do without that sort of Romanophile, thank you very much.

Another function of the censura is to serve as a good example of proper
behavior to all citizens, and to censure the most egregious examples of the
contrary by issuing notae. Some feel that notae are dished out with undue
frequency, but in the many years I have been here, I have not seen anything
of the kind. Those affected may have been less than pleased, but the
chances are that they did something to deserve this. Now if Hortensia had
been censor, one may rest assured that Cato and some others would have been
branded with notae every time they turned around, but that is thankfully not
the way that a responsible censor conducts his (or her) office. It
certainly is not the way I would do things if I were elected to this
position, though it might be necessary to impose that sanction upon rare
occasions. Not being a prophetess, I shan¹t try to predict the future.

What I do know is that citizen applications are down, way down from the
time when the censorial mailbox worked and the database was not shut down on
assorted whims of the server¹s host. Few people are attracted to Nova Roma,
far fewer than should be. That is not a problem for the censor to solve,
but for all of us. We in the censorial cohors can treat those who approach
us with dignity, but we cannot lure people here, or keep them here if they
do not see what they want here, or see things that turn them away. That is
a far more extensive problem, and one we should try to resolve.

Valete.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Caesar!

"Quae volomus, ea credimus libenter, et quae sentimus ipsi, reliqueos
sentre speramus."
*G. Iulius Caesar

*I got your plan in writing, from Sulla himself. I think the original!
Unfortunately, even the title is true. If something is born, that comes to
life, is created from the merger. Disintegrate, but the empty, soulless
corpse used to, which is dead.
39.side there is a detailed drawing. It can not be "wrong to read!"
(overview of the main flows of CP)

I think that we think correctly, the interaction is a good thing. But the
inanimate and the living nature of things is very different. Nova Roma is
not something! People living in the community spirit! As such it is a living
organism!
Plead! Think back to your plan! Are you sure you want to achieve? Give him
life!

Yours to and recognition of workers!
SPG


2011/12/28 Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>

> **
>
>
> Caesar Dextro sal.
>
> No Dexter we don�t jump under my plan to two of Nova Roma. We have an side
> of Nova Roma Inc. that handles all the non-profit side, the assets, the
> finances and the other that is focused on building the res publica. Two
> components all part of one combined whole concept that we know as Nova
> Roma. It isn�t so much two faces, but two sides.
>
> In my plan: Nova Roma Inc. + res publica = Nova Roma.
>
> You also seemed to have either not grasped or glossed over the fact that
> the res publica would be a private organization under my plan. That is the
> way we free ourselves of the oversight in the res publica of macronational
> laws designed to deal with non-profit corporations.
>
> As to your points:
>
> 1. The issue will not be solved by constantly shuffling the corporation
> around the world. There will always be regulations that we have to abide by
> and issues we have to deal with. Unless you want to locate us in Somalia
> where regulation is non-existent unless it is by pirates, then
> macronational regulation like the poor will always be with us. What I
> content we need to do is build a structure that can survive, prosper and
> handle the stresses of being a Roman res publica existing in the middle of
> a modern world. My plan I believe affords us that chance.
>
> 2. As to the vote, as I have stated throughout this election we will do
> this in an orderly, logical, and fair manner. Debates in the Senate, votes
> in the Senate, debates in the Forum, contio, votes in comitia. I suggest if
> I am elected you try to convince the Senate on your proposal. You will
> require a 2/3rds majority in the Senate to carry your plan. This is exactly
> why I would go to the Senate first and start the process there. There is no
> point rushing ahead holding a comitia vote and failing to convince the
> Senate. Besides, I think the people should, if I am elected, have an
> opportunity to review my plan. You will have plenty of opportunities to
> convince both the senate AND the people of your suggestion. Without the
> support of both of course any idea will fail.
>
> If we were to turn Nova Roma Inc. from a non-profit all our funds which
> had been donated and most likely the membership fees too, could not be so
> easily transferred. People have given knowing that the funds are going to a
> non-profit. It is the same issue as with the disposal of the funds from the
> MMP. Simply turning those funds over to the control of a private company is
> most likely not possible. Even if it were, if we think we have issues with
> financial probity now imagine the likely reaction of people knowing the
> funds were going into the control of a private organization with little
> oversight. We would also lose our tax benefits.
>
> 3. Yes, but we have those now protected by a non-profit framework. Under
> my plan they still would have that extra layer of protection, while under
> yours they would not. My plan, amongst our benefits, aims to free the res
> publica but maintain the corporate shield around our assets.
>
> Optime vale.
>
> From: petronius_dexter
> Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:03 PM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] NR private and non-profit the only twofold choice?
>
>
> C. Petronius Cn. Caesari Quiritibus salutem dicit,
>
> Your plan, Cn. Caesar, on the future of Nova Roma has the only line of a
> division of Nova Roma in two organizations: a non-profit one, a private
> one. With all the problems of a dangerous dichotomy, because of the changes
> you propose which can definitely damage her internal backbone.
>
> Duality due to the fact that all the voting, legal, calendar and economic
> set of our Republic is not compatible with the Laws of the Maine towards
> the non-profit organization. Both organizations affiliated to the Maine.
> With your proposal of two Novae Romae we directly jump from the early
> Republic to the Empire West and East division. Let's be cautious that those
> new Novae Romae do not become a two-faced organization. I know that Nova
> Roman Fora are in the domain "Yahoo", id est in a Barbarian area. If my
> Collins concise Thesaurus is right about the word Yahoo meaning.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

--
Spurius Porcius Gemma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem V Kalendas Ianuarius; haec dies comitialis est.


"But the story which comes nearer to the truth and which has been
adopted by many who have narrated his deeds in the form of history is
as follows: Hercules, who was the greatest commander of his age,
marched at the head of a large force through all the country that lies
on this side of the Ocean, destroying any despotisms that were
grievous and oppressive to their subjects, or commonwealths that
outraged and injured the neighbouring states, or organized bands of
men who lived in the manner of savages and lawlessly put strangers to
death, and in their room establishing lawful monarchies, well-ordered
governments and humane and sociable modes of life. Furthermore, he
mingled barbarians with Greeks, and inhabitants of the inland with
dwellers on the sea coast, groups which hitherto had been distrustful
and unsocial in their dealings with each other; he also built cities
in desert places, turned the course of rivers that overflowed the
fields, cut roads through inaccessible mountains, and contrived other
means by which every land and sea might lie open to the use of all
mankind. And he came into Italy not alone nor yet bringing a herd of
cattle (for neither does this country lies on the road of those
returning from Spain to Argos nor would he have been deemed worthy of
so great an honour merely for passing through it), but at the head of
a great army, after he had already conquered Spain, in order to
subjugate and rule the people in this region; and he was obliged to
tarry there a considerable time both because of the absence of his
fleet, due to stormy weather that detained it, and because not all the
nations of Italy willingly submitted to him. For, besides the other
barbarians, the Ligurians, a numerous and warlike people seated in the
passes of the Alps, endeavoured to prevent his entrance into Italy by
force of arms, and in that place so great a battle was fought by the
Greeks that all their missiles gave out in the course of the fighting.
This war is mentioned by Aeschylus, among the ancient poets, in his
Prometheus Unbound; for there Prometheus is represented as foretelling
to Hercules in detail how everything else was to befall him on his
expedition against Geryon and in particular recounting to him the
difficult struggle he was to have in the war with the Ligurians. The
verses are these:

'And thou shalt come to Liguria's dauntless host,
Where no fault shalt thou find, bold though thou art,
With the fray: 'tis fated thy missiles all shall fail.'

After Hercules had defeated this people and gained the passes, some
delivered up their cities to him of their own accord, particularly
those who were any other Greek extraction or who had no considerable
forces; but the greatest part of them were reduced by war and siege.
Among those who were conquered in battle, they say, was Cacus, who is
celebrated in the Roman legend, an exceedingly barbarous chieftain
reigning over a savage people, who had set himself to oppose Hercules;
he was established in the fastnesses and on that account was a pest to
his neighbours. He, when he heard that Hercules lay encamped in the
plain hard by, equipped his followers like brigands and making a
sudden raid while the army lay sleeping, he surrounded and drove off
as much of their booty as he found unguarded. Afterwards, being
besieged by the Greeks, he not only saw his forts taken by storm, but
was himself slain amid his fastnesses. And when his forts had been
demolished, those who had accompanied Hercules on the expedition
(these were some Arcadians with Evander, and Faunus, king of the
Aborigines) took over the districts round about, each group for
itself. And it may be conjecture days that those of the Greeks who
remained there, that is, the Epeans and the Arcadians from Pheneus, as
well as the Trojans, were left to guard the country. For among the
various measures of Hercules that bespoke the true general none was
more worthy of admiration than his practice of carrying along with him
for a time on his expeditions the prisoners taken from the captured
cities, and then, after they had cheerfully assisted him in his wars,
settling them in the conquered regions and bestowing on them the
riches he had gained from others. It was because of these deeds that
Hercules gained the greatest name and renown in Italy, and not because
of his passage through it, which was attended by nothing worthy of
veneration.

Some say that he also left sons by two women in the region now
inhabited by the Romans. One of these sons was Pallas, whom he had by
the daughter of Evander, whose name, they say, was Lavinia; the other,
Latinus, whose mother was a certain Hyperborean girl whom he brought
with him as a hostage given to him by her father and preserved for
some time untouched; but while he was on his voyage to Italy, he fell
in love with her and got her with child. And when he was preparing to
leave for Argos, he married her to Faunus, king of the Aborigines; for
which reason Latinus is generally looked upon as the son of Faunus,
not of Hercules. Pallas, they say, died before he arrived at puberty;
but Latinus, upon reaching man's estate, succeeded to the kingdom of
the Aborigines, and when he was killed in the battle against the
neighbouring Rutulians, without leaving any male issue, the kingdom
devolved on Aeneas, the son of Anchises, his son-in-law. But
these things happened at other times." - Dionysis of Halicarnassus,
"Roman Antiquities", 1.41-43


Valete bene!

Cato

Ave Spurius,

Have you not been around for 14 years of civil war, civil strife, and
discord. Nova Roma, if you want to compare to a living being, is at best a
14 year old child dysfunctional child that has not learned from the
mistakes of the past. As Flavius Vedius said, Caesar's plan will take
longer for NR to achieve the vision of the founders. My response to that
was, longer than what? Can you, can Dexter, can Flavius Vedius please tell
me, just what is longer than infinity? I would like to know, because at
the way NR is, at the way Nova Roma is currently structured, at the way NR
fails to have any progress, please....Spurius, tell me....what is longer
than infinity?

The reason Caesar developed his plan is to set us on the track that we can
START achieving it's vision now, removing a constant source of conflict for
the past 4 years by setting up in a workable way. If you have another
plan, please present it for us to review as well. If not, please I will
repeat my question again, what is longer than infinity?

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 4:39 AM, Spurius Porcius
<gladius.porcius@...>wrote:

> Salve Caesar!
>
> "Quae volomus, ea credimus libenter, et quae sentimus ipsi, reliqueos
> sentre speramus."
> *G. Iulius Caesar
>
> *I got your plan in writing, from Sulla himself. I think the original!
> Unfortunately, even the title is true. If something is born, that comes to
> life, is created from the merger. Disintegrate, but the empty, soulless
> corpse used to, which is dead.
> 39.side there is a detailed drawing. It can not be "wrong to read!"
> (overview of the main flows of CP)
>
> I think that we think correctly, the interaction is a good thing. But the
> inanimate and the living nature of things is very different. Nova Roma is
> not something! People living in the community spirit! As such it is a
> living
> organism!
> Plead! Think back to your plan! Are you sure you want to achieve? Give him
> life!
>
> Yours to and recognition of workers!
> SPG
>
>
> 2011/12/28 Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > Caesar Dextro sal.
> >
> > No Dexter we don�t jump under my plan to two of Nova Roma. We have an
> side
> > of Nova Roma Inc. that handles all the non-profit side, the assets, the
> > finances and the other that is focused on building the res publica. Two
> > components all part of one combined whole concept that we know as Nova
> > Roma. It isn�t so much two faces, but two sides.
> >
> > In my plan: Nova Roma Inc. + res publica = Nova Roma.
> >
> > You also seemed to have either not grasped or glossed over the fact that
> > the res publica would be a private organization under my plan. That is
> the
> > way we free ourselves of the oversight in the res publica of
> macronational
> > laws designed to deal with non-profit corporations.
> >
> > As to your points:
> >
> > 1. The issue will not be solved by constantly shuffling the corporation
> > around the world. There will always be regulations that we have to abide
> by
> > and issues we have to deal with. Unless you want to locate us in Somalia
> > where regulation is non-existent unless it is by pirates, then
> > macronational regulation like the poor will always be with us. What I
> > content we need to do is build a structure that can survive, prosper and
> > handle the stresses of being a Roman res publica existing in the middle
> of
> > a modern world. My plan I believe affords us that chance.
> >
> > 2. As to the vote, as I have stated throughout this election we will do
> > this in an orderly, logical, and fair manner. Debates in the Senate,
> votes
> > in the Senate, debates in the Forum, contio, votes in comitia. I suggest
> if
> > I am elected you try to convince the Senate on your proposal. You will
> > require a 2/3rds majority in the Senate to carry your plan. This is
> exactly
> > why I would go to the Senate first and start the process there. There is
> no
> > point rushing ahead holding a comitia vote and failing to convince the
> > Senate. Besides, I think the people should, if I am elected, have an
> > opportunity to review my plan. You will have plenty of opportunities to
> > convince both the senate AND the people of your suggestion. Without the
> > support of both of course any idea will fail.
> >
> > If we were to turn Nova Roma Inc. from a non-profit all our funds which
> > had been donated and most likely the membership fees too, could not be so
> > easily transferred. People have given knowing that the funds are going
> to a
> > non-profit. It is the same issue as with the disposal of the funds from
> the
> > MMP. Simply turning those funds over to the control of a private company
> is
> > most likely not possible. Even if it were, if we think we have issues
> with
> > financial probity now imagine the likely reaction of people knowing the
> > funds were going into the control of a private organization with little
> > oversight. We would also lose our tax benefits.
> >
> > 3. Yes, but we have those now protected by a non-profit framework. Under
> > my plan they still would have that extra layer of protection, while under
> > yours they would not. My plan, amongst our benefits, aims to free the res
> > publica but maintain the corporate shield around our assets.
> >
> > Optime vale.
> >
> > From: petronius_dexter
> > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:03 PM
> > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Nova-Roma] NR private and non-profit the only twofold choice?
> >
> >
> > C. Petronius Cn. Caesari Quiritibus salutem dicit,
> >
> > Your plan, Cn. Caesar, on the future of Nova Roma has the only line of a
> > division of Nova Roma in two organizations: a non-profit one, a private
> > one. With all the problems of a dangerous dichotomy, because of the
> changes
> > you propose which can definitely damage her internal backbone.
> >
> > Duality due to the fact that all the voting, legal, calendar and economic
> > set of our Republic is not compatible with the Laws of the Maine towards
> > the non-profit organization. Both organizations affiliated to the Maine.
> > With your proposal of two Novae Romae we directly jump from the early
> > Republic to the Empire West and East division. Let's be cautious that
> those
> > new Novae Romae do not become a two-faced organization. I know that Nova
> > Roman Fora are in the domain "Yahoo", id est in a Barbarian area. If my
> > Collins concise Thesaurus is right about the word Yahoo meaning.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Spurius Porcius Gemma
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Porcio sal.

If you look at NR as a whole it is basically dead already, at best dead man
walking. The only thing remaining to do is arrange the funeral and conduct
the oration. You seem to contend that what will arise will be soulless. That
is, with all due respect, utterly incorrect, from my viewpoint at least.

What will arise is a Nova Roma freed at long last from the issues over its
relationship to its corporate shield, a Nova Roma with checks and balances
both on the corporate side and in the res publica. A Nova Roma with a voice
given to the voiceless. Throughout many years here on this Forum you can
read posts from people, from all sides, complaining about magistrates who do
nothing to meet the aspirations of the people, do nothing to achieve the
goals set out. Part of the reason for that failure is that the house we live
in that is Nova Roma is structurally unsound. It cannot withstand external
pressures or internal ones. Walls have collapsed, are collapsing, the roof
leaks, the main supports, such as the Constitution, are riddled with rot.
Fewer and fewer people want to live in the house that is NR, and who can
blame them? It is a miserable hovel. The people who live in it, the few that
are left deserve far better. The house we have now is about to be condemned
and demolished.

Will my plan create something that will be better than what we have now?
Yes. Is what we have now working or worth keeping alive? No. Nova Roma as it
exists while it has a noble vision and soul has a body that is rotten with
disease and it has been so for years. It has spread throughout the entire
body. It is a cancer that has eaten through us. The cancer of structural
failure. I aim to create a new body, a stronger one, for that vision - the
soul of Nova Roma to dwell in.

Am I sure? Yes, I am utterly sure of the worth of Nova Roma Reborn.

Optime vale


-----Original Message-----
From: Spurius Porcius
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 4:39 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Nova-Roma] NR private and non-profit the only twofold
choice?

Salve Caesar!

"Quae volomus, ea credimus libenter, et quae sentimus ipsi, reliqueos
sentre speramus."
*G. Iulius Caesar

*I got your plan in writing, from Sulla himself. I think the original!
Unfortunately, even the title is true. If something is born, that comes to
life, is created from the merger. Disintegrate, but the empty, soulless
corpse used to, which is dead.
39.side there is a detailed drawing. It can not be "wrong to read!"
(overview of the main flows of CP)
.yahoo.com/info/terms/

*Salve Sulla!
I'm sorry that I was late to respond. I have worked.

In short, the answer to your question is:
What a long way to infinity?
The endless trip to the longer path on which it will not start.

Nothing against Caesar in the plan. I think, at times brilliant. But ...
It does not take into account people's behavior.
Why is it important to plan the implementation of the post of Consul?
People should plan to "knead"?

I think the plans to convert the people!
Perhaps no logical reason, many people dream of great differences, and they
want the same ... but it is important to what they can love and accept!
When I plan to, trusts, what kind of people, and how they will act with me. I
do not want to convince anyone, I expect, he is wanting to join.
It is difficult to know, and also urges the time. But who is to be expected
that people are loving what we plan for them.
Otherwise, just plan to remain.

I wish that the people want Caesar's plan a reality!

But alas I am afraid this does not happen then. When the Nova Roma in
persuading citizens need to think again!
(Just as a car navigation system says: re-design ..)

vale PORCIVS
*
2011/12/28 Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>

> Ave Spurius,
>
> Have you not been around for 14 years of civil war, civil strife, and
> discord. Nova Roma, if you want to compare to a living being, is at best a
> 14 year old child dysfunctional child that has not learned from the
> mistakes of the past. As Flavius Vedius said, Caesar's plan will take
> longer for NR to achieve the vision of the founders. My response to that
> was, longer than what? Can you, can Dexter, can Flavius Vedius please tell
> me, just what is longer than infinity? I would like to know, because at
> the way NR is, at the way Nova Roma is currently structured, at the way NR
> fails to have any progress, please....Spurius, tell me....what is longer
> than infinity?
>
> The reason Caesar developed his plan is to set us on the track that we can
> START achieving it's vision now, removing a constant source of conflict for
> the past 4 years by setting up in a workable way. If you have another
> plan, please present it for us to review as well. If not, please I will
> repeat my question again, what is longer than infinity?
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 4:39 AM, Spurius Porcius
> <gladius.porcius@...>wrote:
>
> > Salve Caesar!
> >
> > "Quae volomus, ea credimus libenter, et quae sentimus ipsi, reliqueos
> > sentre speramus."
> > *G. Iulius Caesar
> >
> > *I got your plan in writing, from Sulla himself. I think the original!
> > Unfortunately, even the title is true. If something is born, that comes
> to
> > life, is created from the merger. Disintegrate, but the empty, soulless
> > corpse used to, which is dead.
> > 39.side there is a detailed drawing. It can not be "wrong to read!"
> > (overview of the main flows of CP)
> >
> > I think that we think correctly, the interaction is a good thing. But the
> > inanimate and the living nature of things is very different. Nova Roma is
> > not something! People living in the community spirit! As such it is a
> > living
> > organism!
> > Plead! Think back to your plan! Are you sure you want to achieve? Give
> him
> > life!
> >
> > Yours to and recognition of workers!
> > SPG
> >
> >
> > 2011/12/28 Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
> >
> > > **
> > >
> > >
> > > Caesar Dextro sal.
> > >
> > > No Dexter we don�t jump under my plan to two of Nova Roma. We have an
> > side
> > > of Nova Roma Inc. that handles all the non-profit side, the assets, the
> > > finances and the other that is focused on building the res publica. Two
> > > components all part of one combined whole concept that we know as Nova
> > > Roma. It isn�t so much two faces, but two sides.
> > >
> > > In my plan: Nova Roma Inc. + res publica = Nova Roma.
> > >
> > > You also seemed to have either not grasped or glossed over the fact
> that
> > > the res publica would be a private organization under my plan. That is
> > the
> > > way we free ourselves of the oversight in the res publica of
> > macronational
> > > laws designed to deal with non-profit corporations.
> > >
> > > As to your points:
> > >
> > > 1. The issue will not be solved by constantly shuffling the corporation
> > > around the world. There will always be regulations that we have to
> abide
> > by
> > > and issues we have to deal with. Unless you want to locate us in
> Somalia
> > > where regulation is non-existent unless it is by pirates, then
> > > macronational regulation like the poor will always be with us. What I
> > > content we need to do is build a structure that can survive, prosper
> and
> > > handle the stresses of being a Roman res publica existing in the middle
> > of
> > > a modern world. My plan I believe affords us that chance.
> > >
> > > 2. As to the vote, as I have stated throughout this election we will do
> > > this in an orderly, logical, and fair manner. Debates in the Senate,
> > votes
> > > in the Senate, debates in the Forum, contio, votes in comitia. I
> suggest
> > if
> > > I am elected you try to convince the Senate on your proposal. You will
> > > require a 2/3rds majority in the Senate to carry your plan. This is
> > exactly
> > > why I would go to the Senate first and start the process there. There
> is
> > no
> > > point rushing ahead holding a comitia vote and failing to convince the
> > > Senate. Besides, I think the people should, if I am elected, have an
> > > opportunity to review my plan. You will have plenty of opportunities to
> > > convince both the senate AND the people of your suggestion. Without the
> > > support of both of course any idea will fail.
> > >
> > > If we were to turn Nova Roma Inc. from a non-profit all our funds which
> > > had been donated and most likely the membership fees too, could not be
> so
> > > easily transferred. People have given knowing that the funds are going
> > to a
> > > non-profit. It is the same issue as with the disposal of the funds from
> > the
> > > MMP. Simply turning those funds over to the control of a private
> company
> > is
> > > most likely not possible. Even if it were, if we think we have issues
> > with
> > > financial probity now imagine the likely reaction of people knowing the
> > > funds were going into the control of a private organization with little
> > > oversight. We would also lose our tax benefits.
> > >
> > > 3. Yes, but we have those now protected by a non-profit framework.
> Under
> > > my plan they still would have that extra layer of protection, while
> under
> > > yours they would not. My plan, amongst our benefits, aims to free the
> res
> > > publica but maintain the corporate shield around our assets.
> > >
> > > Optime vale.
> > >
> > > From: petronius_dexter
> > > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:03 PM
> > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] NR private and non-profit the only twofold choice?
> > >
> > >
> > > C. Petronius Cn. Caesari Quiritibus salutem dicit,
> > >
> > > Your plan, Cn. Caesar, on the future of Nova Roma has the only line of
> a
> > > division of Nova Roma in two organizations: a non-profit one, a private
> > > one. With all the problems of a dangerous dichotomy, because of the
> > changes
> > > you propose which can definitely damage her internal backbone.
> > >
> > > Duality due to the fact that all the voting, legal, calendar and
> economic
> > > set of our Republic is not compatible with the Laws of the Maine
> towards
> > > the non-profit organization. Both organizations affiliated to the
> Maine.
> > > With your proposal of two Novae Romae we directly jump from the early
> > > Republic to the Empire West and East division. Let's be cautious that
> > those
> > > new Novae Romae do not become a two-faced organization. I know that
> Nova
> > > Roman Fora are in the domain "Yahoo", id est in a Barbarian area. If my
> > > Collins concise Thesaurus is right about the word Yahoo meaning.
> > >
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Caesar!
Thank you for your answer, I know it is late.
Thank you for your answer, I know it is late. Well with the naked eye to see
that you v�ltoztani the structure. Yes, but can no longer dream of the
founders of what you want, but your own.
I wish that people wholeheartedly support and dolgozzonak you that you can
become a reality!
vale SPG

2011/12/28 Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>

> **
>
>
> Caesar Porcio sal.
>
> If you look at NR as a whole it is basically dead already, at best dead
> man
> walking. The only thing remaining to do is arrange the funeral and conduct
> the oration. You seem to contend that what will arise will be soulless.
> That
> is, with all due respect, utterly incorrect, from my viewpoint at least.
>
> What will arise is a Nova Roma freed at long last from the issues over its
> relationship to its corporate shield, a Nova Roma with checks and balances
> both on the corporate side and in the res publica. A Nova Roma with a
> voice
> given to the voiceless. Throughout many years here on this Forum you can
> read posts from people, from all sides, complaining about magistrates who
> do
> nothing to meet the aspirations of the people, do nothing to achieve the
> goals set out. Part of the reason for that failure is that the house we
> live
> in that is Nova Roma is structurally unsound. It cannot withstand external
> pressures or internal ones. Walls have collapsed, are collapsing, the roof
> leaks, the main supports, such as the Constitution, are riddled with rot.
> Fewer and fewer people want to live in the house that is NR, and who can
> blame them? It is a miserable hovel. The people who live in it, the few
> that
> are left deserve far better. The house we have now is about to be
> condemned
> and demolished.
>
> Will my plan create something that will be better than what we have now?
> Yes. Is what we have now working or worth keeping alive? No. Nova Roma as
> it
> exists while it has a noble vision and soul has a body that is rotten with
> disease and it has been so for years. It has spread throughout the entire
> body. It is a cancer that has eaten through us. The cancer of structural
> failure. I aim to create a new body, a stronger one, for that vision - the
> soul of Nova Roma to dwell in.
>
> Am I sure? Yes, I am utterly sure of the worth of Nova Roma Reborn.
>
> Optime vale
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Spurius Porcius
> Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 4:39 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Bulk] Re: [Nova-Roma] NR private and non-profit the only twofold
> choice?
>
> Salve Caesar!
>
> "Quae volomus, ea credimus libenter, et quae sentimus ipsi, reliqueos
> sentre speramus."
> *G. Iulius Caesar
>
> *I got your plan in writing, from Sulla himself. I think the original!
>
> Unfortunately, even the title is true. If something is born, that comes to
> life, is created from the merger. Disintegrate, but the empty, soulless
> corpse used to, which is dead.
> 39.side there is a detailed drawing. It can not be "wrong to read!"
> (overview of the main flows of CP)
> .yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

--
Spurius Porcius Gemma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Porcio sal.

Yes it does take account of people's behaviour. It expects the worst and
plans for it. It expects the best and plans for it. It expects nothing from
them and plans for it.

As for persuading people - yes we could all sit around and wait for some
collective spark of communal initiative to grip us all. That has not
happened and won't happen. Look around, people are jaded, dispirited,
resigned. Look at our declining numbers. Just look. So to me it most
certainly is the job of a Consul to take the lead and present a solution. It
will be opened for debate and improvements. It will then go to the people
ultimately to decide.

It is equally not our place to think for the people by saying better to wait
for us all to agree to climb out of the mud pool. Some have given up
struggling. Others can't find a way out. The mud is closing over our nose
and will soon drown us Porci. I am not prepared to wait for that. The people
can elect to drown if they wish when it goes to a vote, but they will have
that choice given to them if I am elected. I will not make them drown in
inactivity. That is their right to choose and it will be given to them in
the form of a final firm plan that they can vote yes or no to, or abstain
on.

Optime vale

-----Original Message-----
From: Spurius Porcius
Sent: Wednesday, December 28, 2011 11:56 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] NR private and non-profit the only twofold choice?

*Salve Sulla!
I'm sorry that I was late to respond. I have worked.

In short, the answer to your question is:
What a long way to infinity?
The endless trip to the longer path on which it will not start.
.com/info/terms/

Ave!

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Spurius Porcius <gladius.porcius@...

> wrote:

> *Salve Sulla!
> I'm sorry that I was late to respond. I have worked.
>

No need to apologize, I am responding from work too. :)

>
> In short, the answer to your question is:
> What a long way to infinity?
> The endless trip to the longer path on which it will not start.
>

Umm....isn't that the path that NR is currently on?

>
> Nothing against Caesar in the plan. I think, at times brilliant. But ...
> It does not take into account people's behavior.
>

Actually, if you read the plan, it absolutely does. I typed out Page 19!
In short, everything on caesar's plan hinges on the people! Their
involvement, their determination if there is a conflict between the Res
Publica vs Nova Roma Inc. Everything hinges on the People's involvement,
interaction and participation.

> Why is it important to plan the implementation of the post of Consul?
>

Because the Consul is empowered by Imperium to summon the Senate and the
Comitia from which both the Senate and People will not only be able to
debate, discuss and amend the plan but ultimately pass it as well.

> People should plan to "knead"?
>

Knead? I don't understand, can you please clarify?

>
> I think the plans to convert the people!
> Perhaps no logical reason, many people dream of great differences, and they
> want the same ... but it is important to what they can love and accept!
> When I plan to, trusts, what kind of people, and how they will act with
> me. I
> do not want to convince anyone, I expect, he is wanting to join.
> It is difficult to know, and also urges the time. But who is to be expected
> that people are loving what we plan for them.
> Otherwise, just plan to remain.
>

I think you might be reading too much in between the lines, if I am
understanding you correctly. Yes, both Caesar and I want everyone to read
the plan, understand the plan, and we want to hear constructive criticisms
of the plan. This way we can further develop it and have everyone who
contributes to be vested into the plan. Because your last statement,
"Otherwise, just plan to remain." is unacceptable. We know doing nothing
will not work, has not worked and never will work.

>
> I wish that the people want Caesar's plan a reality!
>

Me too! :)

>
> But alas I am afraid this does not happen then. When the Nova Roma in
> persuading citizens need to think again!
> (Just as a car navigation system says: re-design ..)
>

Sometimes a re-design is necessary, given your car example...let's look at
the infamous Pinto...a car that had a tendency to explode on impact the
car was hit from the rear....Just like NR. We need to do what we can to
prevent that from happening. This is what we are at now. With your help
we can redesign NR so that we will learn from the past and have a better
future because of it.

Respectfully,

Sulla

>
> vale PORCIVS
> *
> 2011/12/28 Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
>
> > Ave Spurius,
> >
> > Have you not been around for 14 years of civil war, civil strife, and
> > discord. Nova Roma, if you want to compare to a living being, is at
> best a
> > 14 year old child dysfunctional child that has not learned from the
> > mistakes of the past. As Flavius Vedius said, Caesar's plan will take
> > longer for NR to achieve the vision of the founders. My response to that
> > was, longer than what? Can you, can Dexter, can Flavius Vedius please
> tell
> > me, just what is longer than infinity? I would like to know, because at
> > the way NR is, at the way Nova Roma is currently structured, at the way
> NR
> > fails to have any progress, please....Spurius, tell me....what is longer
> > than infinity?
> >
> > The reason Caesar developed his plan is to set us on the track that we
> can
> > START achieving it's vision now, removing a constant source of conflict
> for
> > the past 4 years by setting up in a workable way. If you have another
> > plan, please present it for us to review as well. If not, please I will
> > repeat my question again, what is longer than infinity?
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 4:39 AM, Spurius Porcius
> > <gladius.porcius@...>wrote:
> >
> > > Salve Caesar!
> > >
> > > "Quae volomus, ea credimus libenter, et quae sentimus ipsi, reliqueos
> > > sentre speramus."
> > > *G. Iulius Caesar
> > >
> > > *I got your plan in writing, from Sulla himself. I think the original!
> > > Unfortunately, even the title is true. If something is born, that comes
> > to
> > > life, is created from the merger. Disintegrate, but the empty, soulless
> > > corpse used to, which is dead.
> > > 39.side there is a detailed drawing. It can not be "wrong to read!"
> > > (overview of the main flows of CP)
> > >
> > > I think that we think correctly, the interaction is a good thing. But
> the
> > > inanimate and the living nature of things is very different. Nova Roma
> is
> > > not something! People living in the community spirit! As such it is a
> > > living
> > > organism!
> > > Plead! Think back to your plan! Are you sure you want to achieve? Give
> > him
> > > life!
> > >
> > > Yours to and recognition of workers!
> > > SPG
> > >
> > >
> > > 2011/12/28 Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
> > >
> > > > **
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Caesar Dextro sal.
> > > >
> > > > No Dexter we don�t jump under my plan to two of Nova Roma. We have an
> > > side
> > > > of Nova Roma Inc. that handles all the non-profit side, the assets,
> the
> > > > finances and the other that is focused on building the res publica.
> Two
> > > > components all part of one combined whole concept that we know as
> Nova
> > > > Roma. It isn�t so much two faces, but two sides.
> > > >
> > > > In my plan: Nova Roma Inc. + res publica = Nova Roma.
> > > >
> > > > You also seemed to have either not grasped or glossed over the fact
> > that
> > > > the res publica would be a private organization under my plan. That
> is
> > > the
> > > > way we free ourselves of the oversight in the res publica of
> > > macronational
> > > > laws designed to deal with non-profit corporations.
> > > >
> > > > As to your points:
> > > >
> > > > 1. The issue will not be solved by constantly shuffling the
> corporation
> > > > around the world. There will always be regulations that we have to
> > abide
> > > by
> > > > and issues we have to deal with. Unless you want to locate us in
> > Somalia
> > > > where regulation is non-existent unless it is by pirates, then
> > > > macronational regulation like the poor will always be with us. What I
> > > > content we need to do is build a structure that can survive, prosper
> > and
> > > > handle the stresses of being a Roman res publica existing in the
> middle
> > > of
> > > > a modern world. My plan I believe affords us that chance.
> > > >
> > > > 2. As to the vote, as I have stated throughout this election we will
> do
> > > > this in an orderly, logical, and fair manner. Debates in the Senate,
> > > votes
> > > > in the Senate, debates in the Forum, contio, votes in comitia. I
> > suggest
> > > if
> > > > I am elected you try to convince the Senate on your proposal. You
> will
> > > > require a 2/3rds majority in the Senate to carry your plan. This is
> > > exactly
> > > > why I would go to the Senate first and start the process there. There
> > is
> > > no
> > > > point rushing ahead holding a comitia vote and failing to convince
> the
> > > > Senate. Besides, I think the people should, if I am elected, have an
> > > > opportunity to review my plan. You will have plenty of opportunities
> to
> > > > convince both the senate AND the people of your suggestion. Without
> the
> > > > support of both of course any idea will fail.
> > > >
> > > > If we were to turn Nova Roma Inc. from a non-profit all our funds
> which
> > > > had been donated and most likely the membership fees too, could not
> be
> > so
> > > > easily transferred. People have given knowing that the funds are
> going
> > > to a
> > > > non-profit. It is the same issue as with the disposal of the funds
> from
> > > the
> > > > MMP. Simply turning those funds over to the control of a private
> > company
> > > is
> > > > most likely not possible. Even if it were, if we think we have issues
> > > with
> > > > financial probity now imagine the likely reaction of people knowing
> the
> > > > funds were going into the control of a private organization with
> little
> > > > oversight. We would also lose our tax benefits.
> > > >
> > > > 3. Yes, but we have those now protected by a non-profit framework.
> > Under
> > > > my plan they still would have that extra layer of protection, while
> > under
> > > > yours they would not. My plan, amongst our benefits, aims to free the
> > res
> > > > publica but maintain the corporate shield around our assets.
> > > >
> > > > Optime vale.
> > > >
> > > > From: petronius_dexter
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:03 PM
> > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] NR private and non-profit the only twofold
> choice?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > C. Petronius Cn. Caesari Quiritibus salutem dicit,
> > > >
> > > > Your plan, Cn. Caesar, on the future of Nova Roma has the only line
> of
> > a
> > > > division of Nova Roma in two organizations: a non-profit one, a
> private
> > > > one. With all the problems of a dangerous dichotomy, because of the
> > > changes
> > > > you propose which can definitely damage her internal backbone.
> > > >
> > > > Duality due to the fact that all the voting, legal, calendar and
> > economic
> > > > set of our Republic is not compatible with the Laws of the Maine
> > towards
> > > > the non-profit organization. Both organizations affiliated to the
> > Maine.
> > > > With your proposal of two Novae Romae we directly jump from the early
> > > > Republic to the Empire West and East division. Let's be cautious that
> > > those
> > > > new Novae Romae do not become a two-faced organization. I know that
> > Nova
> > > > Roman Fora are in the domain "Yahoo", id est in a Barbarian area. If
> my
> > > > Collins concise Thesaurus is right about the word Yahoo meaning.
> > > >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

salve!
I am of the 19th Offices on the openness of the improvements required and
the nature of one man one vote principle read. You may not listening well,
sorry.
"Knead" the people, it means our own opinion of our true, tell them they can
not hear you.
vale SPG

2011/12/28 Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>

> Ave!
>
> On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Spurius Porcius <
> gladius.porcius@...
> > wrote:
>
> > *Salve Sulla!
> > I'm sorry that I was late to respond. I have worked.
> >
>
> No need to apologize, I am responding from work too. :)
>
>
> >
> > In short, the answer to your question is:
> > What a long way to infinity?
> > The endless trip to the longer path on which it will not start.
> >
>
> Umm....isn't that the path that NR is currently on?
>
>
> >
> > Nothing against Caesar in the plan. I think, at times brilliant. But ...
> > It does not take into account people's behavior.
> >
>
> Actually, if you read the plan, it absolutely does. I typed out Page 19!
> In short, everything on caesar's plan hinges on the people! Their
> involvement, their determination if there is a conflict between the Res
> Publica vs Nova Roma Inc. Everything hinges on the People's involvement,
> interaction and participation.
>
>
> > Why is it important to plan the implementation of the post of Consul?
> >
>
> Because the Consul is empowered by Imperium to summon the Senate and the
> Comitia from which both the Senate and People will not only be able to
> debate, discuss and amend the plan but ultimately pass it as well.
>
>
> > People should plan to "knead"?
> >
>
> Knead? I don't understand, can you please clarify?
>
>
> >
> > I think the plans to convert the people!
> > Perhaps no logical reason, many people dream of great differences, and
> they
> > want the same ... but it is important to what they can love and accept!
> > When I plan to, trusts, what kind of people, and how they will act with
> > me. I
> > do not want to convince anyone, I expect, he is wanting to join.
> > It is difficult to know, and also urges the time. But who is to be
> expected
> > that people are loving what we plan for them.
> > Otherwise, just plan to remain.
> >
>
> I think you might be reading too much in between the lines, if I am
> understanding you correctly. Yes, both Caesar and I want everyone to read
> the plan, understand the plan, and we want to hear constructive criticisms
> of the plan. This way we can further develop it and have everyone who
> contributes to be vested into the plan. Because your last statement,
> "Otherwise, just plan to remain." is unacceptable. We know doing nothing
> will not work, has not worked and never will work.
>
>
> >
> > I wish that the people want Caesar's plan a reality!
> >
>
> Me too! :)
>
>
> >
> > But alas I am afraid this does not happen then. When the Nova Roma in
> > persuading citizens need to think again!
> > (Just as a car navigation system says: re-design ..)
> >
>
> Sometimes a re-design is necessary, given your car example...let's look at
> the infamous Pinto...a car that had a tendency to explode on impact the
> car was hit from the rear....Just like NR. We need to do what we can to
> prevent that from happening. This is what we are at now. With your help
> we can redesign NR so that we will learn from the past and have a better
> future because of it.
>
> Respectfully,
>
> Sulla
>
>
> >
> > vale PORCIVS
> > *
> > 2011/12/28 Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> >
> > > Ave Spurius,
> > >
> > > Have you not been around for 14 years of civil war, civil strife, and
> > > discord. Nova Roma, if you want to compare to a living being, is at
> > best a
> > > 14 year old child dysfunctional child that has not learned from the
> > > mistakes of the past. As Flavius Vedius said, Caesar's plan will take
> > > longer for NR to achieve the vision of the founders. My response to
> that
> > > was, longer than what? Can you, can Dexter, can Flavius Vedius please
> > tell
> > > me, just what is longer than infinity? I would like to know, because
> at
> > > the way NR is, at the way Nova Roma is currently structured, at the way
> > NR
> > > fails to have any progress, please....Spurius, tell me....what is
> longer
> > > than infinity?
> > >
> > > The reason Caesar developed his plan is to set us on the track that we
> > can
> > > START achieving it's vision now, removing a constant source of conflict
> > for
> > > the past 4 years by setting up in a workable way. If you have another
> > > plan, please present it for us to review as well. If not, please I
> will
> > > repeat my question again, what is longer than infinity?
> > >
> > > Respectfully,
> > >
> > > Sulla
> > >
> > > On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 4:39 AM, Spurius Porcius
> > > <gladius.porcius@...>wrote:
> > >
> > > > Salve Caesar!
> > > >
> > > > "Quae volomus, ea credimus libenter, et quae sentimus ipsi, reliqueos
> > > > sentre speramus."
> > > > *G. Iulius Caesar
> > > >
> > > > *I got your plan in writing, from Sulla himself. I think the
> original!
> > > > Unfortunately, even the title is true. If something is born, that
> comes
> > > to
> > > > life, is created from the merger. Disintegrate, but the empty,
> soulless
> > > > corpse used to, which is dead.
> > > > 39.side there is a detailed drawing. It can not be "wrong to read!"
> > > > (overview of the main flows of CP)
> > > >
> > > > I think that we think correctly, the interaction is a good thing. But
> > the
> > > > inanimate and the living nature of things is very different. Nova
> Roma
> > is
> > > > not something! People living in the community spirit! As such it is a
> > > > living
> > > > organism!
> > > > Plead! Think back to your plan! Are you sure you want to achieve?
> Give
> > > him
> > > > life!
> > > >
> > > > Yours to and recognition of workers!
> > > > SPG
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > 2011/12/28 Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
> > > >
> > > > > **
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Caesar Dextro sal.
> > > > >
> > > > > No Dexter we don�t jump under my plan to two of Nova Roma. We have
> an
> > > > side
> > > > > of Nova Roma Inc. that handles all the non-profit side, the assets,
> > the
> > > > > finances and the other that is focused on building the res publica.
> > Two
> > > > > components all part of one combined whole concept that we know as
> > Nova
> > > > > Roma. It isn�t so much two faces, but two sides.
> > > > >
> > > > > In my plan: Nova Roma Inc. + res publica = Nova Roma.
> > > > >
> > > > > You also seemed to have either not grasped or glossed over the fact
> > > that
> > > > > the res publica would be a private organization under my plan. That
> > is
> > > > the
> > > > > way we free ourselves of the oversight in the res publica of
> > > > macronational
> > > > > laws designed to deal with non-profit corporations.
> > > > >
> > > > > As to your points:
> > > > >
> > > > > 1. The issue will not be solved by constantly shuffling the
> > corporation
> > > > > around the world. There will always be regulations that we have to
> > > abide
> > > > by
> > > > > and issues we have to deal with. Unless you want to locate us in
> > > Somalia
> > > > > where regulation is non-existent unless it is by pirates, then
> > > > > macronational regulation like the poor will always be with us.
> What I
> > > > > content we need to do is build a structure that can survive,
> prosper
> > > and
> > > > > handle the stresses of being a Roman res publica existing in the
> > middle
> > > > of
> > > > > a modern world. My plan I believe affords us that chance.
> > > > >
> > > > > 2. As to the vote, as I have stated throughout this election we
> will
> > do
> > > > > this in an orderly, logical, and fair manner. Debates in the
> Senate,
> > > > votes
> > > > > in the Senate, debates in the Forum, contio, votes in comitia. I
> > > suggest
> > > > if
> > > > > I am elected you try to convince the Senate on your proposal. You
> > will
> > > > > require a 2/3rds majority in the Senate to carry your plan. This is
> > > > exactly
> > > > > why I would go to the Senate first and start the process there.
> There
> > > is
> > > > no
> > > > > point rushing ahead holding a comitia vote and failing to convince
> > the
> > > > > Senate. Besides, I think the people should, if I am elected, have
> an
> > > > > opportunity to review my plan. You will have plenty of
> opportunities
> > to
> > > > > convince both the senate AND the people of your suggestion. Without
> > the
> > > > > support of both of course any idea will fail.
> > > > >
> > > > > If we were to turn Nova Roma Inc. from a non-profit all our funds
> > which
> > > > > had been donated and most likely the membership fees too, could not
> > be
> > > so
> > > > > easily transferred. People have given knowing that the funds are
> > going
> > > > to a
> > > > > non-profit. It is the same issue as with the disposal of the funds
> > from
> > > > the
> > > > > MMP. Simply turning those funds over to the control of a private
> > > company
> > > > is
> > > > > most likely not possible. Even if it were, if we think we have
> issues
> > > > with
> > > > > financial probity now imagine the likely reaction of people knowing
> > the
> > > > > funds were going into the control of a private organization with
> > little
> > > > > oversight. We would also lose our tax benefits.
> > > > >
> > > > > 3. Yes, but we have those now protected by a non-profit framework.
> > > Under
> > > > > my plan they still would have that extra layer of protection, while
> > > under
> > > > > yours they would not. My plan, amongst our benefits, aims to free
> the
> > > res
> > > > > publica but maintain the corporate shield around our assets.
> > > > >
> > > > > Optime vale.
> > > > >
> > > > > From: petronius_dexter
> > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:03 PM
> > > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] NR private and non-profit the only twofold
> > choice?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > C. Petronius Cn. Caesari Quiritibus salutem dicit,
> > > > >
> > > > > Your plan, Cn. Caesar, on the future of Nova Roma has the only line
> > of
> > > a
> > > > > division of Nova Roma in two organizations: a non-profit one, a
> > private
> > > > > one. With all the problems of a dangerous dichotomy, because of the
> > > > changes
> > > > > you propose which can definitely damage her internal backbone.
> > > > >
> > > > > Duality due to the fact that all the voting, legal, calendar and
> > > economic
> > > > > set of our Republic is not compatible with the Laws of the Maine
> > > towards
> > > > > the non-profit organization. Both organizations affiliated to the
> > > Maine.
> > > > > With your proposal of two Novae Romae we directly jump from the
> early
> > > > > Republic to the Empire West and East division. Let's be cautious
> that
> > > > those
> > > > > new Novae Romae do not become a two-faced organization. I know that
> > > Nova
> > > > > Roman Fora are in the domain "Yahoo", id est in a Barbarian area.
> If
> > my
> > > > > Collins concise Thesaurus is right about the word Yahoo meaning.
> > > > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

--
Spurius Porcius Gemma


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Caecae sal.

You are correct regarding NRR. They will take what they want and put an interpretation on it. The best way that Nova Roma can globally answer their charges – selective or not – is to survive, then to rebuild and then to prosper.

This is what this election is about, as far as I and Sulla are concerned anyway. Extending to people a rope. Giving the people a choice. I am confident that if given the opportunity to make changes with input from all, that we can rob the editor. or editors. of NRR of more ammunition. We have to stop shooting ourselves in the foot though to do that.

We need a cohesive plan of action.

Optime vale

From: C. Maria Caeca
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 8:03 PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] electoral considerations


Salvete Omnes!

I'd like to share some very informal thoughts with you, in the hope that
they might give you some ideas. When I read Cato Consul's initial post, my
immediate reaction was something like: "how *DARE* they!" Of course, I had,
and have absolutely no idea, at this point who *they* are, but I'll get to



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

Nova Roma offers one man one vote under the Tribal and Century allocations
construct. Thusly, everyone has the opportunity to vote, maybe there might
be a language issue between us?

Spurius, do you not realize that both Caesar and I have been listening to
everyone who has posted their thoughts on the plan. Yes, it is the
Consul's duty to push the plan through, but it will take not only the votes
in the Senate AND the votes in the Comitia Centuriata to be able to
implement the plan. This idea that you seem to have, unless I am
misunderstanding you, that we are not listening to the people is not only
wrong, it is wrong so badly that I seriously hope I am misunderstanding
you. Either that or you have not been paying attention to the debates
Caesar had with others on the ML.

It will take not only the Caesar, or myself but the support of 2/3 of the
Senate and THEN a majority of the Comitia Centuriata.

Most Respectfully,

Sulla

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 12:32 PM, Spurius Porcius <gladius.porcius@...

> wrote:

> salve!
> I am of the 19th Offices on the openness of the improvements required and
> the nature of one man one vote principle read. You may not listening well,
> sorry.
> "Knead" the people, it means our own opinion of our true, tell them they
> can
> not hear you.
> vale SPG
>
> 2011/12/28 Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
>
> > Ave!
> >
> > On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 11:56 AM, Spurius Porcius <
> > gladius.porcius@...
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > *Salve Sulla!
> > > I'm sorry that I was late to respond. I have worked.
> > >
> >
> > No need to apologize, I am responding from work too. :)
> >
> >
> > >
> > > In short, the answer to your question is:
> > > What a long way to infinity?
> > > The endless trip to the longer path on which it will not start.
> > >
> >
> > Umm....isn't that the path that NR is currently on?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Nothing against Caesar in the plan. I think, at times brilliant. But
> ...
> > > It does not take into account people's behavior.
> > >
> >
> > Actually, if you read the plan, it absolutely does. I typed out Page 19!
> > In short, everything on caesar's plan hinges on the people! Their
> > involvement, their determination if there is a conflict between the Res
> > Publica vs Nova Roma Inc. Everything hinges on the People's involvement,
> > interaction and participation.
> >
> >
> > > Why is it important to plan the implementation of the post of Consul?
> > >
> >
> > Because the Consul is empowered by Imperium to summon the Senate and the
> > Comitia from which both the Senate and People will not only be able to
> > debate, discuss and amend the plan but ultimately pass it as well.
> >
> >
> > > People should plan to "knead"?
> > >
> >
> > Knead? I don't understand, can you please clarify?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I think the plans to convert the people!
> > > Perhaps no logical reason, many people dream of great differences, and
> > they
> > > want the same ... but it is important to what they can love and accept!
> > > When I plan to, trusts, what kind of people, and how they will act with
> > > me. I
> > > do not want to convince anyone, I expect, he is wanting to join.
> > > It is difficult to know, and also urges the time. But who is to be
> > expected
> > > that people are loving what we plan for them.
> > > Otherwise, just plan to remain.
> > >
> >
> > I think you might be reading too much in between the lines, if I am
> > understanding you correctly. Yes, both Caesar and I want everyone to
> read
> > the plan, understand the plan, and we want to hear constructive
> criticisms
> > of the plan. This way we can further develop it and have everyone who
> > contributes to be vested into the plan. Because your last statement,
> > "Otherwise, just plan to remain." is unacceptable. We know doing
> nothing
> > will not work, has not worked and never will work.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I wish that the people want Caesar's plan a reality!
> > >
> >
> > Me too! :)
> >
> >
> > >
> > > But alas I am afraid this does not happen then. When the Nova Roma in
> > > persuading citizens need to think again!
> > > (Just as a car navigation system says: re-design ..)
> > >
> >
> > Sometimes a re-design is necessary, given your car example...let's look
> at
> > the infamous Pinto...a car that had a tendency to explode on impact the
> > car was hit from the rear....Just like NR. We need to do what we can to
> > prevent that from happening. This is what we are at now. With your help
> > we can redesign NR so that we will learn from the past and have a better
> > future because of it.
> >
> > Respectfully,
> >
> > Sulla
> >
> >
> > >
> > > vale PORCIVS
> > > *
> > > 2011/12/28 Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...>
> > >
> > > > Ave Spurius,
> > > >
> > > > Have you not been around for 14 years of civil war, civil strife, and
> > > > discord. Nova Roma, if you want to compare to a living being, is at
> > > best a
> > > > 14 year old child dysfunctional child that has not learned from the
> > > > mistakes of the past. As Flavius Vedius said, Caesar's plan will
> take
> > > > longer for NR to achieve the vision of the founders. My response to
> > that
> > > > was, longer than what? Can you, can Dexter, can Flavius Vedius
> please
> > > tell
> > > > me, just what is longer than infinity? I would like to know, because
> > at
> > > > the way NR is, at the way Nova Roma is currently structured, at the
> way
> > > NR
> > > > fails to have any progress, please....Spurius, tell me....what is
> > longer
> > > > than infinity?
> > > >
> > > > The reason Caesar developed his plan is to set us on the track that
> we
> > > can
> > > > START achieving it's vision now, removing a constant source of
> conflict
> > > for
> > > > the past 4 years by setting up in a workable way. If you have
> another
> > > > plan, please present it for us to review as well. If not, please I
> > will
> > > > repeat my question again, what is longer than infinity?
> > > >
> > > > Respectfully,
> > > >
> > > > Sulla
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 4:39 AM, Spurius Porcius
> > > > <gladius.porcius@...>wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Salve Caesar!
> > > > >
> > > > > "Quae volomus, ea credimus libenter, et quae sentimus ipsi,
> reliqueos
> > > > > sentre speramus."
> > > > > *G. Iulius Caesar
> > > > >
> > > > > *I got your plan in writing, from Sulla himself. I think the
> > original!
> > > > > Unfortunately, even the title is true. If something is born, that
> > comes
> > > > to
> > > > > life, is created from the merger. Disintegrate, but the empty,
> > soulless
> > > > > corpse used to, which is dead.
> > > > > 39.side there is a detailed drawing. It can not be "wrong to
> read!"
> > > > > (overview of the main flows of CP)
> > > > >
> > > > > I think that we think correctly, the interaction is a good thing.
> But
> > > the
> > > > > inanimate and the living nature of things is very different. Nova
> > Roma
> > > is
> > > > > not something! People living in the community spirit! As such it
> is a
> > > > > living
> > > > > organism!
> > > > > Plead! Think back to your plan! Are you sure you want to achieve?
> > Give
> > > > him
> > > > > life!
> > > > >
> > > > > Yours to and recognition of workers!
> > > > > SPG
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > 2011/12/28 Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@...>
> > > > >
> > > > > > **
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Caesar Dextro sal.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > No Dexter we don�t jump under my plan to two of Nova Roma. We
> have
> > an
> > > > > side
> > > > > > of Nova Roma Inc. that handles all the non-profit side, the
> assets,
> > > the
> > > > > > finances and the other that is focused on building the res
> publica.
> > > Two
> > > > > > components all part of one combined whole concept that we know as
> > > Nova
> > > > > > Roma. It isn�t so much two faces, but two sides.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In my plan: Nova Roma Inc. + res publica = Nova Roma.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > You also seemed to have either not grasped or glossed over the
> fact
> > > > that
> > > > > > the res publica would be a private organization under my plan.
> That
> > > is
> > > > > the
> > > > > > way we free ourselves of the oversight in the res publica of
> > > > > macronational
> > > > > > laws designed to deal with non-profit corporations.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > As to your points:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 1. The issue will not be solved by constantly shuffling the
> > > corporation
> > > > > > around the world. There will always be regulations that we have
> to
> > > > abide
> > > > > by
> > > > > > and issues we have to deal with. Unless you want to locate us in
> > > > Somalia
> > > > > > where regulation is non-existent unless it is by pirates, then
> > > > > > macronational regulation like the poor will always be with us.
> > What I
> > > > > > content we need to do is build a structure that can survive,
> > prosper
> > > > and
> > > > > > handle the stresses of being a Roman res publica existing in the
> > > middle
> > > > > of
> > > > > > a modern world. My plan I believe affords us that chance.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 2. As to the vote, as I have stated throughout this election we
> > will
> > > do
> > > > > > this in an orderly, logical, and fair manner. Debates in the
> > Senate,
> > > > > votes
> > > > > > in the Senate, debates in the Forum, contio, votes in comitia. I
> > > > suggest
> > > > > if
> > > > > > I am elected you try to convince the Senate on your proposal. You
> > > will
> > > > > > require a 2/3rds majority in the Senate to carry your plan. This
> is
> > > > > exactly
> > > > > > why I would go to the Senate first and start the process there.
> > There
> > > > is
> > > > > no
> > > > > > point rushing ahead holding a comitia vote and failing to
> convince
> > > the
> > > > > > Senate. Besides, I think the people should, if I am elected, have
> > an
> > > > > > opportunity to review my plan. You will have plenty of
> > opportunities
> > > to
> > > > > > convince both the senate AND the people of your suggestion.
> Without
> > > the
> > > > > > support of both of course any idea will fail.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > If we were to turn Nova Roma Inc. from a non-profit all our funds
> > > which
> > > > > > had been donated and most likely the membership fees too, could
> not
> > > be
> > > > so
> > > > > > easily transferred. People have given knowing that the funds are
> > > going
> > > > > to a
> > > > > > non-profit. It is the same issue as with the disposal of the
> funds
> > > from
> > > > > the
> > > > > > MMP. Simply turning those funds over to the control of a private
> > > > company
> > > > > is
> > > > > > most likely not possible. Even if it were, if we think we have
> > issues
> > > > > with
> > > > > > financial probity now imagine the likely reaction of people
> knowing
> > > the
> > > > > > funds were going into the control of a private organization with
> > > little
> > > > > > oversight. We would also lose our tax benefits.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 3. Yes, but we have those now protected by a non-profit
> framework.
> > > > Under
> > > > > > my plan they still would have that extra layer of protection,
> while
> > > > under
> > > > > > yours they would not. My plan, amongst our benefits, aims to free
> > the
> > > > res
> > > > > > publica but maintain the corporate shield around our assets.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Optime vale.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: petronius_dexter
> > > > > > Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 11:03 PM
> > > > > > To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [Nova-Roma] NR private and non-profit the only twofold
> > > choice?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > C. Petronius Cn. Caesari Quiritibus salutem dicit,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Your plan, Cn. Caesar, on the future of Nova Roma has the only
> line
> > > of
> > > > a
> > > > > > division of Nova Roma in two organizations: a non-profit one, a
> > > private
> > > > > > one. With all the problems of a dangerous dichotomy, because of
> the
> > > > > changes
> > > > > > you propose which can definitely damage her internal backbone.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Duality due to the fact that all the voting, legal, calendar and
> > > > economic
> > > > > > set of our Republic is not compatible with the Laws of the Maine
> > > > towards
> > > > > > the non-profit organization. Both organizations affiliated to the
> > > > Maine.
> > > > > > With your proposal of two Novae Romae we directly jump from the
> > early
> > > > > > Republic to the Empire West and East division. Let's be cautious
> > that
> > > > > those
> > > > > > new Novae Romae do not become a two-faced organization. I know
> that
> > > > Nova
> > > > > > Roman Fora are in the domain "Yahoo", id est in a Barbarian area.
> > If
> > > my
> > > > > > Collins concise Thesaurus is right about the word Yahoo meaning.
> > > > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------------
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Spurius Porcius Gemma
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]