Ave!

I wish :) that would remind me back in the days when I was in college. :)
I think its a great idea. When Tink was Curule Aedile I kept trying to get
something like this going and to give prizes to the best essay and have
them posted on the website.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 7:03 AM, Yehya <yehya_61@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Salve!
>
> In Plato's Symposium the participants all spoke in turn on a given subject
> and then debated the different responses. Is there any interest in
> something similar here where the participants would all post a short essay
> on a defined topic, either by name or anonymously, and then we debate the
> responses? The topic could be related to any aspect of Ancient Rome or Nova
> Roma we all agree on.
>
> Vale!
>
> Gaius Claudius
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Claudi et omnes,



""First I would like to say it is always dangerous to try to rationalize too
much complex social dynamics because there is an important, but many times
hidden, irrational aspect in how every society behaves. In fact many time
first there is the moral norm and afterwards appears the rationalization for
it."

All too true, although I think the danger comes from trying to implement
such rationalizations. Debating and discussing them simply adds to the
discussion."



True, I wasn't saying it is dangerous or a bad idea to debate it, much on
the contrary. The danger would be in a conceptual way to expect a totally
rational behavior and in practical way to try to implement an artificial and
over rationalized society.

Valete optime,

Crassus





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!

"While this communal understanding can be observed and practiced in practical ways, it cannot and should not be legislated, first, because behavior, which can be legislated, and sometimes must be, is the product, not the source of this code, and 2nd, because attitudes, being internal, can be altered in some ways, but never forcibly, even with clubs and guns, virtual or otherwise."

Nor would I recommend legislating, or even codifying, such practices. As I mentioned in my initial post such matters as should be legislated, the structural and financial aspects, of this society are well in hand.

Unwritten codes are unwritten for a reason and are best left unwritten. But not written does not mean not discussed or not debated.

Social norms are usually unwritten and develop over time. One can not, nor should not try to, legislate the impact of morality on social norms, nor should they try to enforce against any less than egregious breeches of a code that cross the line from annoyance to destructive.

As you state Nova Roma is a virtual society incorporating segments of a diverse multi-national group. As such I would find it interesting to discuss, and debate, the various approaches to morality and virtues to find commonalities, not to force one approach on the others, but to learn from each approach.

Vale!

Gaius Claudius

Ave!

There is a saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions. :) I
kinda see it like that. We want to strike a balance because ultimately
Nova Roma is a voluntary organization. You get too controlling people will
walk away. But we cannot at the same time be paralyzed from taking
appropriate and necessary action.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 10:15 AM, Yehya <yehya_61@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Salve!
>
>
> "First I would like to say it is always dangerous to try to rationalize
> too much complex social dynamics because there is an important, but many
> times hidden, irrational aspect in how every society behaves. In fact many
> time first there is the moral norm and afterwards appears the
> rationalization for it."
>
> All too true, although I think the danger comes from trying to implement
> such rationalizations. Debating and discussing them simply adds to the
> discussion.
>
> Vale!
>
> Gaius Claudius
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!

"There is a saying the road to hell is paved with good intentions. :) I kinda see it like that. We want to strike a balance because ultimately Nova Roma is a voluntary organization. You get too controlling people will walk away. But we cannot at the same time be paralyzed from taking appropriate and necessary action."

Interesting the responses. I enjoy debating morality and virtues to see the different approaches, the different philosophical bases, and the different influences each of us brings to the discussion. It never occurred to me that any would then seek to implement that discussion in any way, except what each of us would voluntarily retain from the discussion and incorporate as we saw fit.

As I would never seek to impose my code, my beliefs, or my moral virtues on another (nor would I expect another to follow my example) I didn't forecast the problems you all see. The responses themselves, the hesitance to discuss these issues, is in itself educational.

But to be clear I was proposing no action beyond a healthy debate of philosophical underpinnings. Debating philosophy isn't like proposing laws, or writing legislation, it is more akin to herding kittens from room to room.

Vale!

Gaius Claudius

Salvete,

Since "Aeternia & Tinka" are the same person. Sulla remember we must try
to use my Roman moniker please.

The problem with this idea would be participation, as it is hard to get
participation for the Essay contests for the Ludi currently..

Nice idea though...

Valete bene,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!

"The problem with this idea would be participation, as it is hard to get participation for the Essay contests for the Ludi currently."

You, Sulla, and I would make three :) Sometimes you need to start small. No contest, no judging, no one needs even sign their name to the entry if they don't want to (I could post it for them) just a different way to get conversations started

Vale!

Gaius Claudius

Salve,

Me? I always support innovation in NR, is there a theme/topic these would
fall under?

Expound this idea please...


Vale bene,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!

"Me? I always support innovation in NR, is there a theme/topic these would fall under?"

Someone picks a topic they are interested in, as in you could pick one. It could be a functional aspect of Nova Roma, a historical aspect of Rome, philosophy, art, literature, anything that interests you that is some way related to Nova Roma.

Anyone who wants to contribute then has two weeks, or four weeks, or whatever sounds good to us to write an essay. Then we all post them to one thread, under one topic, read each others, and discuss them. Plus anyone who didn't write an essay can also discuss them, which might get them to write one the next time.

The purpose is two fold, one to encourage participation and interaction in debating interesting topics and, two, to expose each of us to new and interesting ways of looking at things.

Vale!

Gaius Claudius

Salve et Salvete Omnes.


Thinking outside the square box. I like it.

Well, Gai Claudi, this is your idea & concept, it's fitting the first round
would be yours to start =).


Vale et Valete bene,
Aetermia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

And, I think that the essays should be posted on the website especially if
they are well written and good information essays.

Vale,

Sulla

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 11:55 AM, Belle Morte Statia <
syrenslullaby@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Salve et Salvete Omnes.
>
> Thinking outside the square box. I like it.
>
> Well, Gai Claudi, this is your idea & concept, it's fitting the first round
> would be yours to start =).
>
> Vale et Valete bene,
> Aetermia
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!

"Well, Gai Claudi, this is your idea & concept, it's fitting the first round would be yours to start =)"

OK, I will set the first topic:

What aspect of Ancient Rome has the most relevance to our lives today?

Essays a minimum of 300 words (no maximum) and to be posted around April 14th. I will start a thread on the 14th by that title for anyone who wants to contribute to add their essay to. If you want to participate anonymously send your essay to me by that date and I will post it for you.

Vale!

Gaius Claudius

Salvete,

Nice topic, I can see a few cives participating with topic selection. You
may also want to cross-post this idea to the FH forum, I believe there
would be a certain member of the Iulian gens who'd like to participate with
this... It would give this cive a chance to participate, he doesn't get
the chance often..


Valete bene,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,
Here's my request: To Nova Roma's fluent Latin speakers.
On a daily basis that restarts annually, create 12 monthly levels of progressive basic speaking.

Since I, as well as many others, read NR emails daily, these lessons will build Latin speakers. However, lessons that have more than one basic (two or 3 to 5 max) daily lesson become too time consuming.

THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE.
Example of progressive lessons:
Level 1 (Dictata Uno) - I am a man. (continue for the month)
Level 2 (Dictata Due) - I am a man who reads. (continue for the month)
Level 3 (Dictata Tre) - I am a man who likes to read. (continue for the month)
Level 4 (Dictata Quattuor) - I am a man who writes books. (continue for the month)
Level 5 (Dictata Quinque) - I am a man who has written five books. (continue for the month)
Level 6 (Dictata Sei) - I am a man who wrote five books, one on the subject of the ides of March. (continue for the month)
Level 7 (Dictata Septem) - The ides of March is on the 15th of March. (continue for the month)
Level 8 (Dictata Octo) - The ides of March is date we should honor Julius Caesar. (continue for the month)
Level 9 (Dictata Noven) - We should honor Julius Caesar because he was a great Roman leader. (continue for the month)
Level 10 (Dictata Decim) - Julius Caesar lead Rome to many victories. (continue for the month)
Level 11 (Dictata Undecim) - Many wars were fought as Rome experienced a learning curve. (continue for the month)
Level 12 (Dictata Duodecim) - Rome is a great example of how wars lead to civility as in the United States of America. (continue for the month)
THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE.

What I'm trying relay is my request of a daily and monthly set of brief Latin lessons, that repeat annually, and gradually progress; so that in a year's time, five years time, I can converse in Latin. The basis of this request is that since I'm reading Nova Roma emails regularly, it would be an additional benefit if a system is in place.
Gratias tibi ago,
Tiberius Marcius Quadra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete!

You know, a couple of years ago, Lentulus did some wonderful things on the ML with Latin grammar, built first around writing salutations. I remember 2 of his exercises, that were a lot of fun for many people, even those with some knowledge. In one, we put our names into the dative case, which is what you use to the person you are addressing in a formal salutation, and then in the vocative case, which you use in an individual greeting. I think those exercises, and the fun we had with them, encouraged some who would never have tried, to start using more complex salutations. It certainly increased my confidence. Perhaps ....?

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iulia Ti. Marcio Quadrae C. Mariae Caecae Quiritibusque S.P.D

Excellent initiative! Quadra, would you volunteer to coordinate it, say every six months, so new citizens could take advantage as well? You might be able to get Magistra, Lentulus, Petronius, Placidus and Hadrianus to contribute as well, this way it is not left to one.

Caeca, that was fun, here is the link:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/69920?var=1&l=1

At novaroma.org there is quite a bit of beginning material on Latin salutations and simple phrases:
http://novaroma.org/nr/Latin_phrasebook
http://novaroma.org/nr/Latin_for_e-mail

In addition, Magistra Scholastica mentioned that her new classes will begin in the fall (I think).

Vale, et valete,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete!
>
> You know, a couple of years ago, Lentulus did some wonderful things on the ML with Latin grammar, built first around writing salutations. I remember 2 of his exercises, that were a lot of fun for many people, even those with some knowledge. In one, we put our names into the dative case, which is what you use to the person you are addressing in a formal salutation, and then in the vocative case, which you use in an individual greeting. I think those exercises, and the fun we had with them, encouraged some who would never have tried, to start using more complex salutations. It certainly increased my confidence. Perhaps ....?
>
> Valete bene!
> C. Maria Caeca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Iulia G. Claudio Axenrotho Quiritibusque S.P.D

An ambitious project to be sure and I thank you for serving the respublica by volunteering to administer it! I am beyond pleased that you are not just offering ideas but also availing yourself to see it through. I look forward to what transpires:)

Just an fyi, if you wish to address the entire group use the plural "Salvete", "Salve" is when you are speaking to one person. You may also use "Salve, et salvete", to one and all.

Gai Claudi, I look forward to many good things from you in the future!

Vale, et valete,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Yehya" <yehya_61@...> wrote:
>
> Salve!
>
> "Well, Gai Claudi, this is your idea & concept, it's fitting the first round would be yours to start =)"
>
> OK, I will set the first topic:
>
> What aspect of Ancient Rome has the most relevance to our lives today?
>
> Essays a minimum of 300 words (no maximum) and to be posted around April 14th. I will start a thread on the 14th by that title for anyone who wants to contribute to add their essay to. If you want to participate anonymously send your essay to me by that date and I will post it for you.
>
> Vale!
>
> Gaius Claudius
>

Iulia C. Mariae Caecae Aedili Curuli Ceteris Scribis Bonae Voluntatis Quiritibusque S.P.D

Plurimas gratias vobis for a most splendid Ludi! Much gratitude to all for volunteering to serve the respublica!
Congratulations to all the winners of the games, you participation serves the respublica as well! Optime factum! [very well done]
Vivat Res Publica nostra prosperrime!

The Gods of Nova Roma have once again been honored – and as in past years – this proves that despite problems we rally together!
Dis gratias! [rich thanks]


Vale, et Valete et habete fortunam bonam!

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete!
>
> Congratulations, all you very smart people! Thanks, also for participating! You are all far more brave than I am! Canine, you need to contact me, please, I need info from you ...and *you* have a choice to make!
>
> Valete Bene!
> C. Maria Caeca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

http://vimeo.com/32038695


Rome Reborn 2.2: A Tour of Ancient Rome in 320 CE
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer> [image:
plus]<http://vimeo.com/frischer>
4 months ago
See all <http://vimeo.com/frischer/videos/sort:date>Show me
Bernard Frischer's videos

<http://vimeo.com/32079453>
19. A Digital Restoration of the Portrait of Epicurus
�<http://vimeo.com/32079453>
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
3 months ago
18. Rome Reborn 2.2: A Tour of Ancient Rome in 320 CE
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
4 months ago
<http://vimeo.com/30021107>
17. Caligula Toga Praetexta <http://vimeo.com/30021107>
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
5 months ago
<http://vimeo.com/30020285>
16. Caligula with Toga Purpurea <http://vimeo.com/30020285>
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
5 months ago
<http://vimeo.com/30016140>
15. Augustus of Prima Porta <http://vimeo.com/30016140>
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
5 months ago
<http://vimeo.com/29679846>
14. 3D Model of the Augustus of Prima Porta <http://vimeo.com/29679846>
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
5 months ago
<http://vimeo.com/29679547>
13. The Lansdowne Hercules <http://vimeo.com/29679547>
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
5 months ago
<http://vimeo.com/15808133>
12. Rome Reborn 2.1: A View of the Current State of
th�<http://vimeo.com/15808133>
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
1 year ago
<http://vimeo.com/11805593>
11. Rome Reborn 2.1: A Tour Through Ancient Rome <http://vimeo.com/11805593>
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
1 year ago
<http://vimeo.com/11502620>
10. Rome Reborn 2.1: A tour of the ancient city in A.D.
320<http://vimeo.com/11502620>
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
1 year ago
<http://vimeo.com/9413637>
9. The Roman Forum - Part 2 <http://vimeo.com/9413637>
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
2 years ago
<http://vimeo.com/9413076>
8. The Roman Forum - Part 1 <http://vimeo.com/9413076>
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
2 years ago
<http://vimeo.com/9408030>
7. The Early Building History of the Basilica of Sant�<http://vimeo.com/9408030>
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
2 years ago
<http://vimeo.com/9407401>
6. A Roman Villa in Malibu - Part 4 <http://vimeo.com/9407401>
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
2 years ago
<http://vimeo.com/9406916>
5. A Roman Villa in Malibu. A Guided Tour by Prof. Be�<http://vimeo.com/9406916>
by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
2 years ago
This video presents a fly-through of the latest version of Rome Reborn
(2.2). The new version incorporates some new content (including the
Pantheon) and for the first time includes animations.

Rome Reborn is an international initiative to create a 3D digital model of
the ancient city as it might have appeared in A.D. 320. For more about the
project, please see:
romereborn.virginia.edu<http://www.romereborn.virginia.edu/>
.

For more information, contact the project director, Prof. Bernard Frischer
at:bernard.d.frischer@...; cell +1-310-266-0183


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Julia!

Hmmm ...that doesn't sound as ... familiar as your usual greeting to me, LOL! I might only add this. What the Aedilician cohors does in producing and presenting the Ludi is only half of the equation. In order for them to be successful and memorable ...the other half, your active participation, is absolutely essential ...so, thank each and every one of you who participated in any way, shape or form ...and get ready ...we aren't done by a long shot! April is going to be almost, but not quite, a 30 day party! Can you stand it? Are you brave enough? Strong enough? (big smile) We'll find out!

Vale et valete omnes!
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iulia Quiritibusque S.P.D

Cicero believed that natural law had predominance over governmental laws. This did not mean that if a person broke a law he would not be culpable but that careful judgment based on the variables of the case, not subjective prejudices etc, are necessary for justice. Societies are judged on many factors but how they treat each other, particularly the elderly, infirm and dead, count greatly in how their humanity is perceived by others.

Meminerimus etiam adversus infimos justitiam esse servandam.
[Let us remember that justice must be observed even to the lowest.]
Cicero, De Natura Deorum (45 BC), III. 15

Observantior æqui
Fit populus, nec ferre negat, cum viderit ipsum
Auctorem parere sibi.
[The people become more observant of justice, and do not refuse to submit to the laws when they see them obeyed by their enactor.]
Claudianus, De Quarto Consulatu Honorii Augusti Panegyris, CCXCVII.

Arma tenenti
Omnia dat qui justa negat.
[He who refuses what is just, gives up everything to him who is armed.]
Marcus Annaeus Lucanus, Pharsalia, I. 348.

Curate ut valeatis optime!

Julia

Ave Maria!

And you totally missed my greeting done in the accusative! There you were referred to as "caecam". *laughs* I have been practicing!

Looking forward to April of course!

I shall be performing ritual as I always do for Venus on the Veneralia, April 1st. You should come up *laughs* it would be so much fun to see you awake at 4 am!!! But I think you would enjoy it.

Vale dahlin'

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "C. Maria Caeca" <c.mariacaeca@...> wrote:
>
> Ave Julia!
>
> Hmmm ...that doesn't sound as ... familiar as your usual greeting to me, LOL! I might only add this. What the Aedilician cohors does in producing and presenting the Ludi is only half of the equation. In order for them to be successful and memorable ...the other half, your active participation, is absolutely essential ...so, thank each and every one of you who participated in any way, shape or form ...and get ready ...we aren't done by a long shot! April is going to be almost, but not quite, a 30 day party! Can you stand it? Are you brave enough? Strong enough? (big smile) We'll find out!
>
> Vale et valete omnes!
> C. Maria Caeca
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Sta. Cornelia Aeternia C. Mariae Caecae Aedili Curuli Omnibusque S.P.D.

Congratulations to our Curule Aedile and to the Aedilician Cohors for a
fantastic Ludi, their continuing efforts of hard work and creativity never
cease to amaze me.

Many kudos, for it was truly smashing =)


Valete quam Optime,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!

These are wonderful!

Gratias tibi!

Vale optime

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, Marcus Prometheus <marcusprometheus@...> wrote:
>
> http://vimeo.com/32038695
>
>
> Rome Reborn 2.2: A Tour of Ancient Rome in 320 CE
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer> [image:
> plus]<http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 4 months ago
> See all <http://vimeo.com/frischer/videos/sort:date>Show me
> Bernard Frischer's videos
>
> <http://vimeo.com/32079453>
> 19. A Digital Restoration of the Portrait of Epicurus
> Â…<http://vimeo.com/32079453>
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 3 months ago
> 18. Rome Reborn 2.2: A Tour of Ancient Rome in 320 CE
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 4 months ago
> <http://vimeo.com/30021107>
> 17. Caligula Toga Praetexta <http://vimeo.com/30021107>
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 5 months ago
> <http://vimeo.com/30020285>
> 16. Caligula with Toga Purpurea <http://vimeo.com/30020285>
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 5 months ago
> <http://vimeo.com/30016140>
> 15. Augustus of Prima Porta <http://vimeo.com/30016140>
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 5 months ago
> <http://vimeo.com/29679846>
> 14. 3D Model of the Augustus of Prima Porta <http://vimeo.com/29679846>
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 5 months ago
> <http://vimeo.com/29679547>
> 13. The Lansdowne Hercules <http://vimeo.com/29679547>
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 5 months ago
> <http://vimeo.com/15808133>
> 12. Rome Reborn 2.1: A View of the Current State of
> thÂ…<http://vimeo.com/15808133>
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 1 year ago
> <http://vimeo.com/11805593>
> 11. Rome Reborn 2.1: A Tour Through Ancient Rome <http://vimeo.com/11805593>
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 1 year ago
> <http://vimeo.com/11502620>
> 10. Rome Reborn 2.1: A tour of the ancient city in A.D.
> 320<http://vimeo.com/11502620>
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 1 year ago
> <http://vimeo.com/9413637>
> 9. The Roman Forum - Part 2 <http://vimeo.com/9413637>
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 2 years ago
> <http://vimeo.com/9413076>
> 8. The Roman Forum - Part 1 <http://vimeo.com/9413076>
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 2 years ago
> <http://vimeo.com/9408030>
> 7. The Early Building History of the Basilica of SantÂ…<http://vimeo.com/9408030>
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 2 years ago
> <http://vimeo.com/9407401>
> 6. A Roman Villa in Malibu - Part 4 <http://vimeo.com/9407401>
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 2 years ago
> <http://vimeo.com/9406916>
> 5. A Roman Villa in Malibu. A Guided Tour by Prof. BeÂ…<http://vimeo.com/9406916>
> by Bernard Frischer <http://vimeo.com/frischer>
> 2 years ago
> This video presents a fly-through of the latest version of Rome Reborn
> (2.2). The new version incorporates some new content (including the
> Pantheon) and for the first time includes animations.
>
> Rome Reborn is an international initiative to create a 3D digital model of
> the ancient city as it might have appeared in A.D. 320. For more about the
> project, please see:
> romereborn.virginia.edu<http://www.romereborn.virginia.edu/>
> .
>
> For more information, contact the project director, Prof. Bernard Frischer
> at:bernard.d.frischer@...; cell +1-310-266-0183
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

M. Pompeius Caninus Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

I would like to thank the citizens who have participated in these games. I received a total of 22 entries from 17 citizens in the Circenses! That was a great turn out for the first chariot races of the year. Another four citizens participated in the Certamen Historicum. Thank you. Citizen participation makes the work worthwhile and is really the only true gauge of success for the games. I look forward to seeing even greater levels of participation through the rest of the year.

Optime valete! 

M. Pompeius Caninus
America Boreoccidentalis
Vivat Nova Roma! 

Caeca Juliae sal!

You want to see me awake ...and I assume coherent at *what* time??????? Um ...yeah, OK, LOL! Not even the *birds* are awake at 4 AM ...except the mockingbird outside my window, perhaps.

Vale et valete!
Maria

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caeca Aeterniae sal!

Don't forget to pat yourself on the back, too ...and take a deep breath! We have ...work to do!

Vale et valete!
CMC

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On this Ides of March, allow me to begin the Speak Latin Initiative. How to participate. I will write a sentence. The Latin speakers of Nova Roma will translate; I will write another sentence, speakers of NR will translate, and this process will continue forever.

SPEAK LATIN (Narro Latin)
Tiberius Marcius Quadra's name can be written Ti. Marci Quadra. He reads and writes emails.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete,
My answer: Public senate and litigation. 
Ti. Marci Quadra

________________________________
From: Yehya <yehya_61@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 5:53 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Symposium


 
Salve!

"Well, Gai Claudi, this is your idea & concept, it's fitting the first round would be yours to start =)"

OK, I will set the first topic:

What aspect of Ancient Rome has the most relevance to our lives today?

Essays a minimum of 300 words (no maximum) and to be posted around April 14th. I will start a thread on the 14th by that title for anyone who wants to contribute to add their essay to. If you want to participate anonymously send your essay to me by that date and I will post it for you.

Vale!

Gaius Claudius




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Ti. Marquae Quiritibusque salutem,

>>> On this Ides of March, allow me to begin the Speak Latin Initiative. How to participate. I will write a sentence. The Latin speakers of Nova Roma will translate; I will write another sentence, speakers of NR will translate, and this process will continue forever.<<<

This forum is not the ground of such exercices. As you know in this forum we write we do not speak. If you want to speak Latin you must use something like Skype and speak with Latin speakers of Nova Roma in a Skype group.

Now for writing in Latin in Nova Roma, you may meet the NR Latin writers in 2 fora.
First Latinitas:
Latinitas@yahoogroups.com

secondly Nova Roma Latina:
Nova-Roma-Latina@yahoogroups.com

I suggest all those interested to write or read Latin to join these fora.

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Idibus Martiis Cn. Caesare C. Tullio coss.

C. Petronius C. Claudio salutem,

One of the first mos maiorum virtue is to be honest. When I read such mails that you wrote since you join the ML, I wonder if you are such a new citizen that you claimed. You seem more experienced on what could be Nova Roma than a new citizen is. If I remember the mos maiorum, the new citizens in ancient Rome, the tirones, wanted to learn more throught the elders, they did not come in the Forum with their wishes about the society, they were more modest.

A second mos maiorum virtue is to be frank. But as everyone, in Nova Roma is behind a internet screen everyone imagines more than knows who is writting, and everybody may write exactly the contrary that he thinks. The anonymous of internet permits many things.

So, I think that sharing an internet society we must to write our laws and our constitution. The mos maiorum does not work on an internet society, because the Internet is virtual not virtuous.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Idibus Martiis Cn. Caesare C. Tullio coss.

How do I address the person who prefers to keep the spoken Latin by whatever means, written, dead?

 
I don't blame him, because if I wanted to keep a language among a privileged few, I too would prevent the slightest chance of the language to be practiced.

Let me ask Dexter: if those of us who do want to practice writing Latin here, would that be a violation of any kind? Considering the numerous arguments I read that seem aimless, I'm sorry, I see no harm in Nova Romans reviving Latin in this forum.
Cordially,

Ti. Marci Quadra


________________________________
From: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2012 3:07 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: SPEAK LATIN - March 15, 2012 Thursday


 
C. Petronius Ti. Marquae Quiritibusque salutem,

>>> On this Ides of March, allow me to begin the Speak Latin Initiative. How to participate. I will write a sentence. The Latin speakers of Nova Roma will translate; I will write another sentence, speakers of NR will translate, and this process will continue forever.<<<

This forum is not the ground of such exercices. As you know in this forum we write we do not speak. If you want to speak Latin you must use something like Skype and speak with Latin speakers of Nova Roma in a Skype group.

Now for writing in Latin in Nova Roma, you may meet the NR Latin writers in 2 fora.
First Latinitas:
Latinitas@yahoogroups.com

secondly Nova Roma Latina:
Nova-Roma-Latina@yahoogroups.com

I suggest all those interested to write or read Latin to join these fora.

Optime valete.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
Idibus Martiis Cn. Caesare C. Tullio coss.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sta. Cornelia Aeternia C.Petronio Dextro S.P.D.

As I just have made a post to the Latinitas list, and now in waiting for my
message to approved..

Perhaps people are making posts to the Latin lists, and their posts are
just stuck in pending land?

Maybe this is the reason why there are stronger attempts for Latin to be on
the ML?

There is a connection. And I have a feeling my own post will be pending
land for quite some time.

Vale Optime,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve!
"One of the first mos maiorum virtue is to be honest. When I read such mails that you wrote since you join the ML, I wonder if you are such a new citizen that you claimed. You seem more experienced on what could be Nova Roma than a new citizen is. If I remember the mos maiorum, the new citizens in ancient Rome, the tirones, wanted to learn more throught the elders, they did not come in the Forum with their wishes about the society, they were more modest."

I am completely new to Nova Roma and, yes, honesty is important both to the Mos and in all aspects of life. It has always been my policy to be upfront and honest in all my dealings

Am I more experienced on what Nova Roma could be then a new citizen. should be? Interesting question, or opinion if not a question. And should I be here to learn, and not to challenge or question? I will try to answer directly.

Although new to Nova Roma, and and all aspects of Ancient Roman restoration societies, I am not new to the internet, philosophical thought, religion, or life. I am 50, not 20, and have been discussing and debating these issues on the internet, in one forum or another, for many years.

Do I have a vision for what Nova Roma could be? Yes.

Is it appropriate for me, as a tirone, to have such a vision? Maybe not. It certainly isn't modest, as you point out, yet modesty is not a virtue I have attained yet.

Is my vision consistent with what the leaders of Nova Roma, and the majority of its members are comfortable with? I am unsure and that is one aspect I want to learn.

Should I be here to learn from my elders? Yes, if you want to define the learning process for me. My method of learning is to post on a topic and learn from the responses. Perhaps not modest but I have found it effective. So to learn about the Mos I construct a virtual one, not to be adopted or implemented, but to learn from the responses. To understand the vision of Nova Roma I post my own, not for others to accept or reject but to be debated so I can learn from the responses.

I think it is a matter of style and perhaps my style is inappropriate but sitting quietly and waiting for pearls of wisdom to drip out never worked for me. What I try to do is turn the faucet on as there is a lot of wisdom here.

"A second mos maiorum virtue is to be frank. But as everyone, in Nova Roma is behind a internet screen everyone imagines more than knows who is writing, and everybody may write exactly the contrary that he thinks. The anonymous of internet permits many things."

The internet can hide a multitude of sins which makes honesty even more important. That's why I try to answer every question straight out.

"So, I think that sharing an internet society we must to write our laws and our constitution. The mos maiorum does not work on an internet society, because the Internet is virtual not virtuous."

I disagree. If the Mos Maiorum is simply another name for a set of social norms governing a society, and what we have on the internet is a virtual society, than a version of the Mos Maiorum will develop naturally.

Each of us, in our own life, develops our own set of rules we live by. Usually they are based on existing social norms in the society where we live, religious instructions, our own life experiences, and conscious decisions based on study and reflection. What I hoped to bring out, and learn from, were others experiences, rules, codes, and basis for moral thought. Not to implement them for others but for my own edification. Perhaps not modest but it is how I learn.

Vale!

Gaius Claudius

Salvete aqtue avete, Quirites!

This is the text of the ritual I conducted yesterday to ritually close the ludi Novi Romani, celebrating the 14th anniversary of the founding of the Res Publica Nova Romana, a ritual for Pax and Concordia.

Quirites, if Nova Roma means anything to you, please join into my prayers with your own home rituals, and pray the Peace and Concordance may rule in Nova Roma by creative social cooperation, sense of community and comradeship, sense of togetherness, towards our mission, the restoration ancient Roman religion, culture and virtues.

Together, for our community, together, for our Roman future, together, for a change!

-------------------------------------------------------------

CLOSING SACRIFICE TO PAX AND CONCORDIA POPULI NOVI ROMANI QUIRITIUM

Favete linguis!

(Beginning of the sacrifice.)

1. PRAEFATIO

Dea Pax,
Pax Novae Romae,
Pax Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
Pax Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Pax civium Novorum Romanorum,
Pax deorum et mortalium,
te hoc ture commovendo bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitia Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae!

[Goddess Pax,
the Peace of Nova Roma,
the Peace of the Senate and the People of Nova Roma,
the Peace of the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
the Peace of the Nova Roman citizens,
the Peace of the gods and the mortals,
by offering you this incense, I pray good prayers so
that you may be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
to me, to my household and to my family.]

(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)

Dea Concordia,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Concordia Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia civium Novorum Romanorum,
Concordia deorum et mortalium,
Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
te hoc ture commovendo bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitia Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae!

[Goddess Concordia,
the Concordance of Nova Roma,
the Concord of the Senate and the People of Nova Roma,
the Concordance of the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
the Concordance of the Nova Roman citizens,
the Concord of the gods and the mortals,
Goddess of peace and welfare of the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
by offering you this incense, I pray good prayers so
that you may be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
to me, to my household and to my family.]

(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)

Dea Pax,
Pax Novae Romae,
Pax Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
Pax Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Pax civium Novorum Romanorum,
Pax deorum et mortalium,
uti te ture commovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte lacte inferio esto!"

[Goddess Pax,
the Peace of Nova Roma,
the Peace of the Senate and the People of Nova Roma,
the Peace of the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
the Peace of the Nova Roman citizens,
the Peace of the gods and the mortals,
as by offering you the incense I have well prayed good prayers,
for the very same reason be thou blessed by this sacrificial milk.]

(Libation of milk is made.)

Dea Concordia,
Concordia Novae Romae,
Concordia Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Concordia civium Novorum Romanorum,
Concordia deorum et mortalium,
Dea pacis et salutis et gloriae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
uti te ture commovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte lacte inferio esto!"

[Goddess Concordia,
the Concordance of Nova Roma,
the Concord of the Senate and the People of Nova Roma,
the Concordance of the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
the Concordance of the Nova Roman citizens,
the Concord of the gods and the mortals,
Goddess of peace and welfare of the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
as by offering you the incense I have well prayed good prayers,
for the very same reason be thou blessed by this sacrificial milk.]

(Libation of milk is made.)

2. PRECATIO

Pax et Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Pax et Concordia Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
Pax et Concordia Novae Romae,
Pax et Concordia deorum et mortalium,
Deae salutis et gloriae Senatus Populique Novi Romani,
hoc die ultimo ludorum Novorum Romanorum,
vos precor, veneror, quaesoque obtestorque:
uti pacem concordiamque et iustitiam constantem societati Novae Romae tribuatis;
utique Rem Publicam Populi Novi Romani Quiritium confirmetis, augeatis, adiuvetis,
omnibusque discordiis liberetis;
utique Res Publica Populi Novi Romani Quiritium semper floreat;
atque hoc anno anniversarii quarti decimi Novae Romae conditae convalescat;
atque pax et concordia, salus et gloria Novae Romae omni tempore crescat,
utique omnes qui se Romanos nominant unificetis,
unum populum unamque gentem omnes qui se Romanos nominant faciatis,
unum populum in Nova Roma omnes Romanos hodiernos colligatis;
utique Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae
omnes in hoc anno quinto decimo Novae Romae eventus bonos faustosque esse siritis;
utique sietis volentes propitiae
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, censoribus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebis Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
Collegio Pontificum,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulieribus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!

[Peace and Concordance of the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
Peace and Concord of the Senate and the People of Nova Roma,
Peace and Concordance of Nova Roma,
the Peace and Concord of the gods and the mortals,
Goddesses of peace, welfare and glory of the Senate and the People of Nova Roma,
on this last day of the New Roman Games
I pray, worship, ask and beseech you so
that you may grant peace and steadfast concord to the society of Nova Roma;
so that you may confirm, strengthen and help
the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
and save it from all discord;
so that the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites
may always flourish and prosper,
and in this year of the 14th anniversary may get even stronger;
that peace and concord, the welfare and glory of Nova Roma may increase all the time;
and that you may unite all people who call themselves Roman,
make them who call themselves Roman one people and one nation,
collect together all modern Romans as one nation united into Nova Roma;
and that you allow all events in this now starting 15th year of Nova Roma to be good and salutary
to the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to me, to my household and to my family;
and so that you may be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the magistrates, the censors, consuls, the praetors of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the tribunes of the Nova Roman Plebs,
to the Nova Roman Senate,
to the College of Pontiffs,
to all Nova Roman citizens, men and women, boys and girls,
to me, to my household and to my family.]

3. SACRIFICIUM

Sicut verba nuncupavi,
quaeque ita faxitis,
uti ego me sentio dicere:
harum rerum ergo macte
his quattuordecim libis libandis,
hoc lacte melle mixto libando,
hoc ture ommovendo
estote fitote volentes propitiae
et hoc anno anniversarii quarti decimo Novae Romae conditae et semper
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebis Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulierbus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!

[As I have these words pronounced,
you shall do exactly
what I mean I am saying:
for all these reasons, thou blessed
by offering these 14 liba,
by offering this milk with honey,
by offering this incense
be benevolent and propitious
both in this year of the 14th anniversary of the founding of Nova Roma and always,
to the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the magistrates, the consuls, the praetors of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the tribunes of the Nova Roman Plebs,
to the Nova Roman Senate,
to the College of Pontiffs,
to all Nova Roman citizens, men and women, boys and girls,
to me, to my household and to my family.]

(Libation of 14 liba, milk with honey is made and incense is
sacrificed.)

4. SACRIFICE TO MARS

Mars Pater,
cuius mensis et feriae hodie sunt,
earundem rerum ergo
macte vino inferio esto fito volens propitius
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae!

[Father Mars,
whose month and festival is today,
for the very same reasons
be thou blessed by offering you this sacrificial wine,
and be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
to me, to my household and to my family.]

(Libation of wine is made)

Ilicet!

(End of the sacrifice.)

5. PIACULUM

Iane,
Pax, Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Iuppiter Optime Maxmime,
Iuno, Minerva, Mars,
Omnes Di Immortales quocumque nomine:
si quidquam vobis in hac caerimonia displicet,
hoc vino inferio veniam peto et vitium meum expio.

[Ianus,
Pax, Concordia of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
Iuppiter, the Best and Greatest,
Iuno, Minerva, Mars,
All Gods Immortal by whathever name I may call you:
if anything in this ceremony was displeasing to you,
with this sacrificial wine I ask forgiveness and expiate my fault.]

(I offered incense on the altar and poured a libation of wine on the altar.)



VIVAT NOVA ROMA ANNORUM XIV !!!

NOVA ROMA XIV !!!

Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
P O N T I F E X
SACERDOS CONCORDIAE


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Claudi et omnes,



For my part I like your questions and willing to debate and to think what we
are and what we want to achieve.



It wasnÂ’t the way I learned about Nova Roma but for each one his own ways. I
only hope to see you also giving contributions and thoughts and not only
questions. But that will probably will happen in the symposium project you
are starting.



Valete optime,

Crassus



From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Yehya
Sent: quinta-feira, 15 de Março de 2012 09:27
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Morality, Virtue, & Mos Maiorum







Salve!
"One of the first mos maiorum virtue is to be honest. When I read such mails
that you wrote since you join the ML, I wonder if you are such a new citizen
that you claimed. You seem more experienced on what could be Nova Roma than
a new citizen is. If I remember the mos maiorum, the new citizens in ancient
Rome, the tirones, wanted to learn more throught the elders, they did not
come in the Forum with their wishes about the society, they were more
modest."

I am completely new to Nova Roma and, yes, honesty is important both to the
Mos and in all aspects of life. It has always been my policy to be upfront
and honest in all my dealings

Am I more experienced on what Nova Roma could be then a new citizen. should
be? Interesting question, or opinion if not a question. And should I be here
to learn, and not to challenge or question? I will try to answer directly.

Although new to Nova Roma, and and all aspects of Ancient Roman restoration
societies, I am not new to the internet, philosophical thought, religion, or
life. I am 50, not 20, and have been discussing and debating these issues on
the internet, in one forum or another, for many years.

Do I have a vision for what Nova Roma could be? Yes.

Is it appropriate for me, as a tirone, to have such a vision? Maybe not. It
certainly isn't modest, as you point out, yet modesty is not a virtue I have
attained yet.

Is my vision consistent with what the leaders of Nova Roma, and the majority
of its members are comfortable with? I am unsure and that is one aspect I
want to learn.

Should I be here to learn from my elders? Yes, if you want to define the
learning process for me. My method of learning is to post on a topic and
learn from the responses. Perhaps not modest but I have found it effective.
So to learn about the Mos I construct a virtual one, not to be adopted or
implemented, but to learn from the responses. To understand the vision of
Nova Roma I post my own, not for others to accept or reject but to be
debated so I can learn from the responses.

I think it is a matter of style and perhaps my style is inappropriate but
sitting quietly and waiting for pearls of wisdom to drip out never worked
for me. What I try to do is turn the faucet on as there is a lot of wisdom
here.

"A second mos maiorum virtue is to be frank. But as everyone, in Nova Roma
is behind a internet screen everyone imagines more than knows who is
writing, and everybody may write exactly the contrary that he thinks. The
anonymous of internet permits many things."

The internet can hide a multitude of sins which makes honesty even more
important. That's why I try to answer every question straight out.

"So, I think that sharing an internet society we must to write our laws and
our constitution. The mos maiorum does not work on an internet society,
because the Internet is virtual not virtuous."

I disagree. If the Mos Maiorum is simply another name for a set of social
norms governing a society, and what we have on the internet is a virtual
society, than a version of the Mos Maiorum will develop naturally.

Each of us, in our own life, develops our own set of rules we live by.
Usually they are based on existing social norms in the society where we
live, religious instructions, our own life experiences, and conscious
decisions based on study and reflection. What I hoped to bring out, and
learn from, were others experiences, rules, codes, and basis for moral
thought. Not to implement them for others but for my own edification.
Perhaps not modest but it is how I learn.

Vale!

Gaius Claudius





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Crassus,

"For my part I like your questions and willing to debate and to think what we are and what we want to achieve.
It wasn't the way I learned about Nova Roma but for each one his own ways. I only hope to see you also giving contributions and thoughts and not only questions."

Me offer my own opinions? Kind of like expecting birds to fly or fish to swim. I am not only too opinionated, and given of sharing them, but over fond of the sound of my own voice. I try to keep it on the good side of boorishness but I do probably overstep at times and do not get insulted if taken to task for it. I like to debate, probably appear too sure of myself and my opinions but am always open to listening, learning, and changing, and can be too pushy at times. So while I may appear to strongly take a position I am always open to being challenged and to learning if the challenger has a better argument. My goal is never to "win" the debate but arrive at a better, more honest, or more truthful understanding of the topic under discussion

Vale!

Gaius Claudius

EX OFFICIO

I, C. Maria Caeca Curulis Aedilis in Nova Roma, declare the Ludi Novi Romani closed.

3/15 2765 A.U.C.
Cn. Iulius Caesar, C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus Cos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Crassus

"I would say a moral action is one which seems to contribute to the benefit and/or social cohesion of the society within a long time span so it is fixed in the moral custom. I mean moral custom isn't a casuistic matter and usually it is absolute. It is wrong to rob someone no matter the circumstances (at least from the same society if it from other society as you have said in other post it is good and it is called plunder). For something to become part of the moral custom it needs to be considered good or bad for the most of the society for long time and gradually it is fixed in the moral code. So I can't use the formula if it contributes for social cohesion it is moral to decide the moral action."

I did want to answer this I just wanted to clear up the matter of motives for discussing these issues first.

I think you make some good points about why things are adopted into a moral code but are there moral absolutes? In other words is theft immoral across all moral codes? I think it is and I think underlying the many different moral codes are some basic universal moral principles. But what is the source of these principles?

The most common source for many moral codes is in "divine" origin. The ten commandments are just one example of a basic moral code masquerading as being of such origins (hope I didn't just insult anyone's beliefs) as a commandment from God. Yet to accept divine origin as a source, given the commonality of many basic moral principles, would require either the acceptance of a commonality of divine origins across multiple religious disciplines and beliefs or point to some other origin. I tend to prefer the latter interpretation.

So what is the correct origin? I believe basic moral principles developed evolutionary using the criteria stated above, in that actions that resulted in social cohesion were adopted by primitive man and the social groups that adopted these basic moral principles survived, and that groups that failed to adopted them did not survive. Later they were codified and given divine sanction.

Does this matter if both you and I agree that theft is morally wrong? No probably not for practical reasons, we both agree on the outcome, but I find it interesting in the discussion of adoption of moral codes.

Is the internet community that mush different as a social dynamic from primitive man? Although survival as a social group is not a matter of life and death as it was to tribal societies internet communities do also grow or perish in part based on the moral codes they adopt.

Vale
Gaius Axenrothus

Sta. Cornelia Aeternia C.Claudio S.P.D.


I must say Gai Claudi, most likely you are a new citizen with a extensive
knowledge of Ancient Rome, but you do remind me of another citizen it's
truly uncanny. One of our Tribunes, V. Valerius Volusus, shares very
similar traits and interests as you do. He seems to be away for a bit, but
if he were present on the lists as of now. One could say he would have
found a twin , hopefully Volusus will rejoin us, the two of you conversing
would be an interesting sight to see and fantastic dialogue.

Just a few thoughts.

Vale Optime,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Praetor Ti.Marcio Quadrae S.P.D.

Quick question for Ti. Marci, have you joined either of the Latin lists? I
understand they moderate new coming members, my own Latinitas post finally
did appear (although I am confused as to why I was stuck in pending land,
after being a member of that particular list for three years is slightly
beyond me). Are you a member, have you tried making posts at all?

To get to the grit of your questions..

There is a Moderation Edict in effect for this year, in case you missed the
memo I'll provide you the link to it if required.

Also, I do not believe anyone wants to hamper you or anyone else from
using Latin on this forum (we just request a English translation to
accompany it). What my fellow Praetor may have tried to stress was with
the exercises you propose, would be well suited in a more structured
environment where there are other Latinists to offer support, knowledge,
and their expertise.

Plus a resurgence of a non-active list, never a bad notion.


Vale Optime,
Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete By decree of the Censors we hereby give free JSTOR to everybody! http://about.jstor.org/rr Ok so it is JSTOR who is giving away. But I guy can try , right? :) Valete Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Aeternia, et al,

Yes; I joined both of the Latin lists yesterday, posted my first elementary sentence, and have yet to get better acquainted with the aspects of the two lists (?are they named Latinitas, and Nuntii Latini).  

Yes; please provide the link for the Moderation Edict for this year.

My tendency to want to get my way combined with my passion leads me to have a "whatever it takes" approach. So if I slip and use this forum for my Latin practice, where I'm not supposed too, my apologies.

To mark and date for my mental awareness, I am connected with NOVA ROMA, Latinitas, and Nuntii Latini. Are these the correct names and order of the three groups?

I get the nuance of proper place for specific activities.
Gratius tibi ago,

Tiberius Marcius Quadra


________________________________
From: Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 6:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: SPEAK LATIN - March 15, 2012 Thursday


 
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Praetor Ti.Marcio Quadrae S.P.D.

Quick question for Ti. Marci, have you joined either of the Latin lists? I
understand they moderate new coming members, my own Latinitas post finally
did appear (although I am confused as to why I was stuck in pending land,
after being a member of that particular list for three years is slightly
beyond me). Are you a member, have you tried making posts at all?

To get to the grit of your questions..

There is a Moderation Edict in effect for this year, in case you missed the
memo I'll provide you the link to it if required.

Also, I do not believe anyone wants to hamper you or anyone else from
using Latin on this forum (we just request a English translation to
accompany it). What my fellow Praetor may have tried to stress was with
the exercises you propose, would be well suited in a more structured
environment where there are other Latinists to offer support, knowledge,
and their expertise.

Plus a resurgence of a non-active list, never a bad notion.

Vale Optime,
Aeternia

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus scriba aedilicius Quiritibus: S. P. D.


Citizens and visitors, I am proud to announce you the final results and rankings of the Certamen Latinum of the Ludi Novi Romani, celebrating the 14th Anniversary of our beloved Nova Roman Republic.

This was the page of the Certamen Latinum, with all info:
http://novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXV/Certamen_Latinum

Let's see those answers that were kept unpublished until this moment:

Answer #8
http://novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXV/Certamen_Latinum#Answers_8

Answer #9
http://novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXV/Certamen_Latinum#Answers_9

Answer #10
http://novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXV/Certamen_Latinum#Answers_10


CLSOING THE CERTAMEN LATINUM


First of all, thank YOU, all who participated in the Certamen Latinum, even if not in all questions! I think it was worth to answer even if one question. But those who participate in all 10 questions, even if they did not notice it, but they have now become real Latinists. We went through all the hardest and most difficult parts of the Latin language. There is no monster in this grammar that you would not have seen and killed in this certamen. This means that from now you must not fear Latin anymore.

You are just some steps away from complete knowledge of Latin grammar. Keep studying this language - I will help you if you ask me privately.

Keep studying: you have to make some efforts, on vocabulary, on completing the missing grammar. But there is no barrier that you could not jump over - once you have gone through this certamen this far.

So, let's not delay the most exciting part anymore.

WHO IS THE WINNER OF THE CERTAMEN LATINUM of 2765 AUC?

...

...

...


1. THE WINNER OF THE CERTAMEN LATINUM:


P. Annaeus Constantinus Placidus!!!

CONGRATULATIONS!

Placidus again, that's impressive! He has been triumphs unbeaten for years now as winner of the Certamen Latinum! It will be a REAL challenge to win over Placidus next time - because be sure that there will be a next time for revenge :)

2. THE SECOND PLACE GOES TO:

A. Liburnius Hadrianus!!

He is proven to be a very fine Latinist, and jus with a little effor Hadrianus would easily become a star Latinist of Nova Roma. His performace was extraordinary and exquisite! Congratulations to A. Liburnius!

3. THE THIRD PLACE GOES TO:

L. Aelia Corva!

A brand new citizen, unknown to many, but from now she is the bronze medal Latinist of the New Roman Games, a princess of the Latin language, emerging and soon demanding the throne. Very well done, Aelia, please accept our deepest admiration and respect. Congratultions! And welcome to your new home: Nova Roma!

And now, let's see all rankings and points:


RANKINGS - FINAL RESULTS


http://novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Novi_Romani/MMDCCLXV/Certamen_Latinum#Final_Results

1st Place: P. Annaeus Constantinus Placidus - 484 pts; (Participated in all questions)
2nd Place: A. Liburnius Hadrianus - 473.5 pts; (Participated in all questions)
3rd Place: L. Aelia Corva - 466; (Participated in all questions)
4th Place: V. Aemilia Regilla - 446 pts; (Participated in all questions)
5th Place: M. Pompeius Caninus - 329 pts; (Participated in 8 questions)
6th Place: Ti. Valeria Celeris - 166 pts; (Participated in 5 questions)
7th Place: St. Cornelia Valeriana Iuliana Aeternia - 12 pts; (Participated in 1 question)

This was an epic competition indeed!
A. Liburnius fought himself from the lower places slowly up entirely to the second place, and while Placidus did not started as first, he managed himself to crown this year, too.
Aemilia Regilla was first for 5 turns, than slowly went back to the 4 place, nontheless glorious, and close to first three ones. She must count now among the number of the bests.
M. Pompeius Caninus was excellent and he had all the chances to win this certamen, but, unfortunatelly he did not sent in the last two questions -- the same thing happened last year. So we still can't know how far he could have gone. May be now he would be the first?
Valeria Celeris performed excellently until she withdrew from the race, but we hope next time we can welcome her again in the certamen! We are grateful she participated, a new citizen.
And Cornelia Aeternia praetrix showed example to the citizenry that it's worth trying a contest even if you just jump in for one turn. Thank to the praetrix for participating!

THANK YOU ALL WHO WATCHED US AND FOLLOWED THIS CERTAMEN LATINUM!

LONG LIVE LATIN!

LONG LIVE NOVA ROMA!

LONG LIVE THE LATIN NOVA ROMA!



Valete!

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus,
scriba aedilis curulis Mariae Caecae
magister sodalitatis Latinitatis

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes!

My congratulations to all who participated in this Certamen! You all have my absolute and humble admiration! In other words, you all are rock stars! I will be contacting our Plebeian Aedile very soon, with news that I think he will like!

I would also like to thank Lentulus for providing this certamen for our games. As always, he has outdone himself! And ...I'm going to brag, so be warned! I have the absolute best cohors in Nova Roma, and I appreciate each and every one of them more than I can say!

Again, congratulations to all!

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sta. Cornelia Aeterni Ti. Marci Quadrae Omnibusque S.P.D.

Please see my comments below..

On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 4:43 PM, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Salve Aeternia, et al,
>
> Yes; I joined both of the Latin lists yesterday, posted my first
> elementary sentence, and have yet to get better acquainted with the aspects
> of the two lists (?are they named Latinitas, and Nuntii Latini).
>

Aeternia- The Nuntii Latini is an online radio station (which it is awesome
and I'm huge fan) the Latin lists for Nova Roma are the following
Latinitas@yahoogroups.com and the second Nova Roma Latina:
Nova-Roma-Latina@yahoogroups.com which I recall quite vividly both my
colleague and myself have pointed you in that direction many times in the
last few weeks.

>
> Yes; please provide the link for the Moderation Edict for this year.
>

Aeternia- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/86665

>
> My tendency to want to get my way combined with my passion leads me to
> have a "whatever it takes" approach. So if I slip and use this forum for my
> Latin practice, where I'm not supposed too, my apologies.
>

Aeternia- Everyone has a "want" but not one can always "do" that want or
what we want it is how life is . There is nothing wrong with having
passion, if you don't have passion for an interest/hobby then why bother
doing it? Although I think you are taking my words slightly out of
context hence why I feel you should actually read this Edict, I understand
you want to learn and speak Latin and there is nothing wrong with that.
However like any other language you learn as a second,third, fourth (etc)
you have to have discipline, sure translations can be provided to your
requests but hopefully you are also retaining the knowledge. But since
you display such passion and vigor Ti. Marci, I'm sure you are giving your
Latin studies an extreme amount of discipline with a balance of tender care.

>
> To mark and date for my mental awareness, I am connected with NOVA ROMA,
> Latinitas, and Nuntii Latini. Are these the correct names and order of the
> three groups?
>

Aeternia- See my answer in the previous statement above, way above...

Vale Optime,
Aeternia

>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Ti. Quadrae salutem,

> How do I address the person who prefers to keep the spoken Latin by whatever means, written, dead?

You do not know me well. You address the person who speaks Latin in a Latin circle since four years now, and writes Latin everyday since thirty years. I am just working on my long seventh opus. I practice Latin since many years and I do not know you as a Latin speaker.

But, as I said, if you want learn it and meet Latin speakers of Nova Roma you must join the lists I gave you the links.

> I don't blame him, because if I wanted to keep a language among a privileged few, I too would prevent the slightest chance of the language to be practiced.

If you want to practice it, join the groups I said and search a Latin circle around you.

> Let me ask Dexter: if those of us who do want to practice writing Latin here, would that be a violation of any kind? Considering the numerous arguments I read that seem aimless, I'm sorry, I see no harm in Nova Romans reviving Latin in this forum.

This Forum is for everybody not for some with their own hobbies making others apart. If you write Latin in this Forum, you have to accompagn your Latin with a English translation because few people understand Latin, many people think to write latin something absolutely no Latin, and the goal of this main list is to have debate and discuss between citizens with the same chances to understand and participate.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XVII Kalendas Apriles Cn. Caesare C. Tullio coss.

Salve Dexter, Aeternia, et omnes,
I have read, understand, and agree to Praetorial Moderation Edict for the Forum Novae Romae.
Sincerely,
Tiberius Marcius Quadra

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gaius Petronius Dexter" <jfarnoud94@...> wrote:
>
> C. Petronius Dexter praetor Novis Romanis Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit:
>
> ----------------------
> Ex Officio Praetoris Novae Romae:
>
> PRAETORIAL EDICT CPD StCVIA 65-01:
> MODERATION EDICT FOR THE FORUM NOVAE ROMAE (AKA MAIN LIST OR ML)
>
> We, Gaius Petronius Dexter and Statia Cornelia Valeriana Iuliana Aeternia, praetores of Nova Roma for the year MMDCCLXV, in the hope of promoting a more free and lively, yet well-ordered, setting for the gathering and interaction of those who are citizens, including probationary citizens, of Nova Roma within our principal forum, Forum Novae Romae (also known as The Main List or The ML), http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma, promulgate the following edict for civil conduct within the Forum Novae Romae:
>
> 1. Citizens are reminded that the ML is a moderated list, and all posts sent to the ML must conform with the requirements and restrictions of the Yahoo Terms of Service (ToS) (available in summary form here: http://groups.yahoo.com/local/guidelines.html).
>
> 2. Citizens are reminded that the ML is not classified as an adult group and should govern their choice of language accordingly to comply with the restrictions imposed by the Yahoo ToS. Additionally citizens should be aware that posts that may be considered defamatory, libelous or otherwise injurious could give rise to a cause of action either within Nova Roma under any current relevant leges, or macronationally in courts of competent jurisdiction and should therefore govern themselves accordingly.
>
> 3. Prohibited, disruptive or offensive conduct/language, or a combination thereof, as defined by either Yahoo ToS and/or the Praetors, will be dealt with by warnings and/or imposed moderation. The Praetors are not bound by precedent in deciding these matters, which will be dealt with on a case-by-case basis.
>
> 4. Serious consideration will be taken of any apology or explanation in defense of a behavior for which a penalty may be or has been considered by the Praetura with the understanding that, ultimately, the decision of the Praetores, subject to all legal forms of redress and veto within the Res Publica, will be considered final.
>
> 5. All posts will be expected to be signed by the poster's Roman name. Latin openings and closings will be welcome but not mandatory. More information about the use of Latin in email is given here: http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Latin_for_e-mail
>
> 6. Except for the openings and closings, all Latin text posted on the ML must be accompanied by an English translation so that those less familiar with Latin will be able to understand it.
>
> This edict shall take effect immediately.
>
> DATVM A. D. VI IDVS IANVARIAS MMDCCLXV A.V.C.
> CN. IVLIO CAESARE C. TVLLIO VALERIANO CONSVLIBVS
> [8 January 2012]
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Ti. Quadra C. Petronius salutem,

I'm starting to get it. 

I'm starting to realize more people speak Latin fluently, that I've found - Finland and Austria; than I thought Latin only existed in the Vatican anymore.

What does Arcoiali scribebat mean?

Gratius tibi ago,
Ti. Marci Quadra


________________________________
From: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2012 2:57 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: SPEAK LATIN - March 15, 2012 Thursday


 
C. Petronius Ti. Quadrae salutem,

> How do I address the person who prefers to keep the spoken Latin by whatever means, written, dead?

You do not know me well. You address the person who speaks Latin in a Latin circle since four years now, and writes Latin everyday since thirty years. I am just working on my long seventh opus. I practice Latin since many years and I do not know you as a Latin speaker.

But, as I said, if you want learn it and meet Latin speakers of Nova Roma you must join the lists I gave you the links.

> I don't blame him, because if I wanted to keep a language among a privileged few, I too would prevent the slightest chance of the language to be practiced.

If you want to practice it, join the groups I said and search a Latin circle around you.

> Let me ask Dexter: if those of us who do want to practice writing Latin here, would that be a violation of any kind? Considering the numerous arguments I read that seem aimless, I'm sorry, I see no harm in Nova Romans reviving Latin in this forum.

This Forum is for everybody not for some with their own hobbies making others apart. If you write Latin in this Forum, you have to accompagn your Latin with a English translation because few people understand Latin, many people think to write latin something absolutely no Latin, and the goal of this main list is to have debate and discuss between citizens with the same chances to understand and participate.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XVII Kalendas Apriles Cn. Caesare C. Tullio coss.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Ti. Quadrae salutem,

> Ti. Quadra C. Petronius salutem,

You must use the dative "Petronio".

> What does Arcoiali scribebat mean?

Scribebat is the imperfect of scribo and means "he wrote".
Arcoiali is the locative of Arcoialum, the Galloroman name of the town in which I live.

So "Arcoiali scribebat" means "He wrote in Arcoialum/Arcueil."

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XVI Kalendas Apriles Cn. Caesare C. Tullio coss


----- Message d'origine -----
De : Robin Marquardt <remarq777@...>
À : "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com>
Envoyé le : Vendredi 16 mars 2012 17h07
Objet : SPEAKERS IN MONDO: [Nova-Roma] Re: SPEAK LATIN - March 15, 2012 Thursday

> Ti. Quadra C. Petronius salutem,
> I'm starting to get it.
> I'm starting to realize more people speak Latin fluently, that I've found - Finland and Austria; than I thought Latin only existed in the Vatican anymore.
> What does Arcoiali scribebat mean?
>Gratius tibi ago,
>Ti. Marci Quadra

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve, aedilis!

Thank you very much, and my warmest congratulations to Placidus!

Also to Liburnius for place 2 and Aelia for place 3!

VALETE!
Lentulus

--- Ven 16/3/12, C. Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...> ha scritto:

Da: C. Maria Caeca <c.mariacaeca@...>
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Re:] LUDI NOVI ROMANI: Certamen Latinum - FINAL RESULTS
A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Data: Venerdì 16 marzo 2012, 02:25








 









Salvete Omnes!



My congratulations to all who participated in this Certamen! You all have my absolute and humble admiration! In other words, you all are rock stars! I will be contacting our Plebeian Aedile very soon, with news that I think he will like!



I would also like to thank Lentulus for providing this certamen for our games. As always, he has outdone himself! And ...I'm going to brag, so be warned! I have the absolute best cohors in Nova Roma, and I appreciate each and every one of them more than I can say!



Again, congratulations to all!



Valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Porcius Licinus Marco Prometheo omnibusque SPD

Many thanks for posting the links to the videos of the extraordinary work done by the project Rome Reborn. The digital recreation of the ancient city gives an impression that is delightfully different from the way it is typically portrayed in film.

My attention was drawn to the recreation of the sculture of the Emperor Caligula, in these videos.

http://vimeo.com/30021107
http://vimeo.com/30020285

I presume the colors in the digital image are as close as can be approximated to the pigments used on the statuary. I realize that this shade would be slightly different from that of the actual garments the emperor would wear, as it would be wildly impractical to paint statuary with the most expensive dye in common use for dying the finest garments. However, I would expect the artist to match the color of the garments as best he could with the materials available to him.

On my monitor, the color of the toga comes across as plum. That was a little bit of a surprise to me, as I had been led to believe that Tyrian Purple was closer to a red, as described in Wikipedia and other places:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple

In older films, this was depicted as a brighter, more modern purple.

So, my question for the forum is, does anyone here have a more definitive reference for the Tyrian purple that was used by the senators and later the emperor? Pliny mentioned the dye as being the color of "clotted blood", but I presume it may have looked much different on a dyed garment. Have there been any modern recreations using dye extracted from snails, even as museum pieces?

My thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this mystery.

Vale et Valete!

P Poricus Licinus

 
A. Tullia Scholastica quiritibus tantum bonae voluntatis, praesertim T.
Marcio Quadrae, S.P.D.

Have been battling mail problems and other issues...these seemed to be
of interest on Latinitas, so perhaps may interest others here.

    The following are some fairly short videos of assorted Latinists
speaking Latin.  

        http://www.youtube.com/user/circuluslatinus#p/u/10/i_EQXPwpqG0

    This is of our Petronius Dexter and a much smaller kernel of the
Parisian Circulus Latinus, or Latin speaking group.  The first gentleman
uses the Italian pronunciation of Mento¹s favorite Latin word, and the rest
may have a little French accent.  The Latin is very simple and written on
the screen, so is easy to follow.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=KDg70dIbDUw

   This is a bit longer, featuring former NR citizen A. Gratius Avitus,
founder of the Sermo Latinus courses we teach.  He is a prominent European
Latinist from Spain who lives in London, and is well-known for his fluency
in spoken and written Latin.  Here he discusses his courses, which were then
at the Academia Thules.  The vocabulary may prove difficult, especially
since the text is not onsite, though part is available in the all-Latin
journal Melissa.  

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vggmssbaGKc&feature=channel

    This third one is of our Cn. Cornelius Lentulus reading the Declaration
of Nova Roma in Latin.  The text is also displayed on the screen, so should
be easy to follow, though this is much longer.  Lentulus also has some
related videos which might be of interest to some of you.  

And this last one is of a well-known professor from Germany or Monaco,
Valafridus Stroh; he has numerous videos, many quite long. I tried to pick
a short one especially as he is very histrionic (even in our class video of
a Latinists¹ convention), and that might not be to everyone¹s taste.

   :45
ew.youtube.com/watch?v=A9CFT_I3VLY

    This may not work as is and probably will have to be copied into your
browser.  The first two w¹s  of www. did not copy and the copied text did
not allow me to add them.  Will retype this:
<www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9CFT_I3VLY>  but in the original Arial one cannot
distinguish capital I from lower case L, so my retyping might not work,
either.  If you like this, you might want to Google his other videos.

Several other Latinists have videos online, and I believe one of
Valafridus¹ has a second European Latinist, Gaius Licoppe, the publisher of
the Latin journal Melissa, in it as well.

There are many Latin speakers throughout Europe and the United States,
as well as some in unexpected places, such as Hong Kong and Tokyo. Our
school video has Latinists from Norway, Finland, Germany, France, Italy,
Spain, Hungary, Russia, Bulgaria, and the United States, to mention only
some of the countries represented in this convention video. Italy even
provided some schoolgirls practicing their Latin with their teacher. Of
course if you want to see this (and hear the various pronunciations of Latin
therein represented), you must take our assimilation method courses and
persist until this is made available late in the course ... but there are
many videos online of Latinists reciting various texts which the interested
might find to their liking.


    Valete!  




.






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

1. Aelia Corva Cn. Cornelio Lentulo omnibusque in foro S P D



I just wanted to say "thank you" – or rather "gratias
tibi ago" for all the work you must have put in for the Certamen
Latinum. I particularly appreciated the time you must have spent on
correcting my mistakes! I don't think my brain has worked so hard
for many yearsÂ…..



It has given me confidence to continue with my Latin studies and I
really look forward to learning more.



So many thanks to you.



Di te incolumem custodiant.



Vale et valete bene!





L. Aelia Corva









--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
<cn_corn_lent@...> wrote:

>
> Salve, aedilis!
>
> Thank you very much, and my warmest congratulations to Placidus!
>
> Also to Liburnius for place 2 and Aelia for place 3!
>
> VALETE!
> Lentulus
>
> --- Ven 16/3/12, C. Maria Caeca c.mariacaeca@... ha scritto:
>
> Da: C. Maria Caeca c.mariacaeca@...
> Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Re: Re:] LUDI NOVI ROMANI: Certamen Latinum -

FINAL RESULTS

> A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Data: Venerdì 16 marzo 2012, 02:25
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Â
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Salvete Omnes!
>
>
>
> My congratulations to all who participated in this Certamen! You all

have my absolute and humble admiration! In other words, you all are rock
stars! I will be contacting our Plebeian Aedile very soon, with news
that I think he will like!

>
>
>
> I would also like to thank Lentulus for providing this certamen for

our games. As always, he has outdone himself! And ...I'm going to brag,
so be warned! I have the absolute best cohors in Nova Roma, and I
appreciate each and every one of them more than I can say!

>
>
>
> Again, congratulations to all!
>
>
>
> Valete bene!
>
> C. Maria Caeca
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>
> A. Tullia Scholastica P. Porcio Licino M. Prometheo quiritibus bonae
> voluntatis S.P.D.
>
>
>
> Porcius Licinus Marco Prometheo omnibusque SPD
>
> Many thanks for posting the links to the videos of the extraordinary work done
> by the project Rome Reborn. The digital recreation of the ancient city gives
> an impression that is delightfully different from the way it is typically
> portrayed in film.
>
> My attention was drawn to the recreation of the sculture of the Emperor
> Caligula, in these videos.
>
> http://vimeo.com/30021107
> http://vimeo.com/30020285
>
> I presume the colors in the digital image are as close as can be approximated
> to the pigments used on the statuary. I realize that this shade would be
> slightly different from that of the actual garments the emperor would wear, as
> it would be wildly impractical to paint statuary with the most expensive dye
> in common use for dying the finest garments. However, I would expect the
> artist to match the color of the garments as best he could with the materials
> available to him.
>
> ATS: Paint and dye are two different entities, and what might color wool
> very successfully might not touch marble. The artist would try to match the
> colors he or she saw, but perceptions differ, too.
>
> On my monitor, the color of the toga comes across as plum. That was a little
> bit of a surprise to me, as I had been led to believe that Tyrian Purple was
> closer to a red, as described in Wikipedia and other places:
>
> ATS: From what I have read in the past (when I was investigating ancient
> clothing), Tyrian purple was highly variable in color, ranging from about
> cranberry red through magenta (the color in the swatch on the wiki article)
> through something like our purple. Fabric was also double-dyed (as noted in
> the article), and then had a much darker color. In Latin, this was called
> dibaphus, and was highly prized. The basic dye could also be watered down to
> produce lilac and pinkish hues.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrian_purple
>
> In older films, this was depicted as a brighter, more modern purple.
>
> So, my question for the forum is, does anyone here have a more definitive
> reference for the Tyrian purple that was used by the senators and later the
> emperor? Pliny mentioned the dye as being the color of "clotted blood", but I
> presume it may have looked much different on a dyed garment. Have there been
> any modern recreations using dye extracted from snails, even as museum pieces?
>
> ATS: The article says that some modern attempts have been made; as you
> probably know, both the original source and the inferior substitute one were
> exterminated, though a gentler means could have provided the dye without
> killing the provider thereof. The passenger pigeons might have appreciated
> kinder treatment, too.
>
> People¹s color perceptions differ, just as their taste in colors does.
> Some have an extra set of cone cells, as I understand it, and in all of us
> perception will change over time as the lens and cornea develop darkening and
> cataracts, etc., etc. Some people can hear at dolphin and whale frequencies,
> and some cannot. There is a wide range of variation. Clotted blood doesn¹t
> do it for me, but maybe Pliny liked it; that color sounds more like dibaphus.
>
> My thanks to anyone who can shed some light on this mystery.
>
> Vale et Valete!
>
> P Poricus Licinus
>
> Vale et valete!
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete FYI https://circle.ubc.ca/handle/2429/39408 Valete Ti. Galerius Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Claudi et omnes,



This would give an very good debate although I think we both are more or
less on the same page.



Sadly IÂ’m with very little time at the moment.



Plato also stipulated the existence of the absolutes including the moral
ones without the need of a supreme creator, so it can be argued for the
existence of good without having religion in the mixture ;)



I agree with you on how social conducts are incorporated in the moral code
of the societies. I would also like to stress the fact that usually the
behaviors take a lot of time to be incorporated in the moral code of the
society but after they are there it is almost impossible to remove them even
if change to have a negative effect. More since in ancient times there
werenÂ’t that much competition between societies (they werenÂ’t much
difference from their immediate neighbors) not only the behaviors that
promote the competitively of the society were incorporated as also were
neutral or negative ones.



Is there a Good and an Evil? Absolutes equal to all mankind? I would say no
unless the ones that would lead to the survival or extinction of our specie.



Does this mean that I consider everything valid or all moral codes to be
equals? No, one thing is to say in the conceptual way how the moral codes
may have developed other thing is to accept that because they have the same
principle behind all are equally valid.



One of the reasons I have joined NR is because I consider us to be the heirs
of what was made in ancient Greece and Roma. And I feel we, in the so called
Western world, are losing our cultural identity and what makes us different
from the rest of the world and we do need to return to our cultural roots
and rediscover ourselves once more. That doesnÂ’t mean we need to convert and
impose our ways to the rest of the world but we should esteem and struggle
for our own ways. One of the aspects of the difference is the concept of
citizen with the inherit obligations and rights.



I love very much the books “The History of Government” by S. E. Finer that
describes the several ways of government of different societies from ancient
times to more recent, sadly he died before ending the books so the more
modern ones are lacking. But these books are somewhat boring because without
counting with the ancient Greece and Rome almost every society and type of
the government are slightly variations of the same absolute ruler (not so
absolute due to practical reasons) and subjects. When the concept of
citizenship appears it is a fresh innovation and that only happen around
page 300 of the first book! And sadly disappears soon enough. Nevertheless I
strongly recommend these books.



There are a lot more I would like to say on these and other matters but alas
time is lacking.



Valete optime,

Crassus



From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Yehya
Sent: quinta-feira, 15 de Março de 2012 15:02
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Morality, Virtue, & Mos Maiorum






Salve Crassus

"I would say a moral action is one which seems to contribute to the benefit
and/or social cohesion of the society within a long time span so it is fixed
in the moral custom. I mean moral custom isn't a casuistic matter and
usually it is absolute. It is wrong to rob someone no matter the
circumstances (at least from the same society if it from other society as
you have said in other post it is good and it is called plunder). For
something to become part of the moral custom it needs to be considered good
or bad for the most of the society for long time and gradually it is fixed
in the moral code. So I can't use the formula if it contributes for social
cohesion it is moral to decide the moral action."

I did want to answer this I just wanted to clear up the matter of motives
for discussing these issues first.

I think you make some good points about why things are adopted into a moral
code but are there moral absolutes? In other words is theft immoral across
all moral codes? I think it is and I think underlying the many different
moral codes are some basic universal moral principles. But what is the
source of these principles?

The most common source for many moral codes is in "divine" origin. The ten
commandments are just one example of a basic moral code masquerading as
being of such origins (hope I didn't just insult anyone's beliefs) as a
commandment from God. Yet to accept divine origin as a source, given the
commonality of many basic moral principles, would require either the
acceptance of a commonality of divine origins across multiple religious
disciplines and beliefs or point to some other origin. I tend to prefer the
latter interpretation.

So what is the correct origin? I believe basic moral principles developed
evolutionary using the criteria stated above, in that actions that resulted
in social cohesion were adopted by primitive man and the social groups that
adopted these basic moral principles survived, and that groups that failed
to adopted them did not survive. Later they were codified and given divine
sanction.

Does this matter if both you and I agree that theft is morally wrong? No
probably not for practical reasons, we both agree on the outcome, but I find
it interesting in the discussion of adoption of moral codes.

Is the internet community that mush different as a social dynamic from
primitive man? Although survival as a social group is not a matter of life
and death as it was to tribal societies internet communities do also grow or
perish in part based on the moral codes they adopt.

Vale
Gaius Axenrothus





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Aemilius Crassus C. Mariae Caecae Curuli Aedili omnibusque SPD,



A little late I know but I would like to give my sincere congratulations to
Caeca , all her team and everyone who have participated for these wonderful
Ludi. IÂ’m only sorry to not have been able to participate more.



Valete optime.



From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of C. Maria Caeca
Sent: quinta-feira, 15 de Março de 2012 12:11
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Close of the Ludi Novi Romani





EX OFFICIO

I, C. Maria Caeca Curulis Aedilis in Nova Roma, declare the Ludi Novi Romani
closed.

3/15 2765 A.U.C.
Cn. Iulius Caesar, C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus Cos.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XIV Kalendas Aprilis; hic dies nefastus publicus est.

"After a one day interval, the rites of Minerva are performed,
Which take their name from the sequence of five days.
The first day is bloodless, and sword fights are unlawful,
Because Minerva was born on that very day.
The next four are celebrated with gladiatorial shows,
The warlike goddess delights in naked swords.
Pray now you boys and tender girls to Pallas:
He who can truly please Pallas, is learned.
Pleasing Pallas let girls learn to card wool,
And how to unwind the full distaff.
She shows how to draw the shuttle through the firm
Warp, and close up loose threads with the comb.
Worship her, you who remove stains from damaged clothes,
Worship her, you who ready bronze cauldrons for fleeces.
If Pallas frowns, no one could make good shoes,
Even if he were more skilled than Tychius:
And even if he were cleverer with his hands
Than Epeus once was, he'll be useless if Pallas is angry.
You too who drive away ills with Apollo's art,
Bring a few gifts of your own for the goddess:
And don't scorn her, you schoolmasters, a tribe
So often cheated of its pay: she attracts new pupils:
Nor you engravers, and painters with encaustics,
Nor you who carve the stone with a skilful hand.
She's the goddess of a thousand things: and song for sure:
If I'm worthy may she be a friend to my endeavours.
Where the Caelian Hill slopes down to the plain,
At the point where the street's almost, but not quite, level,
You can see the little shrine of Minerva Capta,
Which the goddess first occupied on her birthday.
The source of the name is doubtful: we speak of
`Capital' ingenuity: the goddess is herself ingenious.
Or is it because, motherless, she leapt, with a shield
From the crown of her father's head (caput)?
Or because she came to us as a `captive' from the conquest
Of Falerii? This, an ancient inscription claims.
Or because her law ordains `capital' punishment
For receiving things stolen from that place?
By whatever logic your title's derived, Pallas,
Shield our leaders with your aegis forever." - Ovid, Fasti III

"I begin to sing of Pallas Athena, the glorious goddess, bright-eyed,
inventive, unbending of heart, pure virgin, saviour of cities,
courageous, Tritogeneia. From his awful head wise Zeus himself bare
her arrayed in warlike arms of flashing gold, and awe seized all the
gods as they gazed. But Athena sprang quickly from the immortal head
and stood before Zeus who holds the aegis, shaking a sharp spear:
great Olympos began to reel horribly at the might of the grey-eyed
goddess, and earth round about cried fearfully, and the sea was moved
and tossed with dark waves, while foam burst forth suddenly: the
bright Son of Hyperion [the Sun] stopped his swift-footed horses a
long while, until the maiden Pallas Athena had stripped the heavenly
armour from her immortal shoulders. And wise Zeus was glad. Hail to
you, daughter of Zeus who holds the aegis!" - Homeric Hymn 29 to
Athena

"Da, Diva, veniam si te non pecudum fibris, non sanguine fuso, quaero
nec arcanis numen coniecto sub extis. Dies admoniet et forti
sacrificare deae, quod est illa nata Minerva die. Pallada nunc oremus.
Qui bene placavit Pallada, doctus erit. Nec quisquam invita Pallade
faciet bene licet antiquo manibus conlatus Epeo sit prior, irata
Pallade mancus erit. Vos quoque, Phoeba morbos qui pellitis arte,
munera de vestris pauca referte deae. Nec vos, turba fere censu
fraudante, magistri, spernite; discipulos attrahit illa novos.
Mille dea est operum. Si mereramus, studiis adsit amica nostris.
Domina haec domii sodalitatisque patrona, te hoc sacrificio obmovendo
precamus uti sies volens propitius nobis domi familiaeque nostris;
harumce rerum ergo, macte hoc sacrificio. Sulis Minerva Belisama,
Medica, Sollertissima, Pallas, Athena, Propugnatrix, sive quo alio
nomine appelari volveris, aegida semper super nos extende." - Prayer
to Minerva, N. Moravius Vado

(Grant, Goddess, pardon, if I seek you not with the bodies of slain
beasts, nor with blood poured forth, nor divine heaven's will from the
secrets of their entrails. This day reminds us to sacrifice to the
strong goddess, for today is Minerva's birthday. Let us pray now to
Pallas, for whosoever wins Pallas' favour shall be learned. No one,
though more cunning in handiwork than old Epeus, can do well; he shall
be helpless, if Pallas be displeased with him. You too, who banish
sickness by Phoebus' art, bring from your earnings a few gifts to the
goddess. Schoolmasters, do not spurn her either, nor cheat her of
your earnings: she will bring you new students. She is the goddess of
a thousand works. May she be friendly to our pursuits, if we deserve
it. Lady, protectress of these households and this fellowship, in
making this offering to you we pray that you be propitious toward us
and our families; because of these things, be honoured by this
sacrifice).

Today we celebrate a festival of Minerva, the "Greater" Quinquatrus.
Ovid says that this festival was celebrated in commemoration of the
birthday of Minerva; but according to Festus it was sacred to Minerva
because her temple on the Aventine was consecrated on that day. The
temple stood outside the pomerium, and the exact year of its
construction is unknown, though it is first mentioned during the time
of the Second Punic War (218-202 B.C.). In keeping with the Roman
custom of temples serving purposes other than those specifically
religious, the Aventine temple was used as the headquarters of a
writer's and actor's guild.

Sacrifices were offered to Minerva, the goddess of war as well as
wisdom, arts and crafts, dyeing, science and trade, and patroness of
trumpet players. She was also the patroness of scholars and
pedagogues, who enjoyed a holiday at this time, with the pupils giving
their pedagogues gifts, dedicated to Minerva, at the close of the
festival. We see her depicted in art with Iuno and Iuppiter on the
Great Arch of Trajan, and she frequently appears on sarcophagi
offering a new life beyond the grave. The Roman goddess Minerva
probably derived from the Etruscan goddess Menrva, and was later
modelled on Greek Pallas Athena. Menrva was the Etruscan version of
Athena, and depicted similarly (with helm, spear, and shield). Like
Athena, Menrva was born from the head of a god, in her case Tinia, and
she is part of a triad with Tinia and Uni. Minerva sprang fully armed
from the head of Iuppiter, whose head had been split open with
Vulcan's axe.

Valete bene,

Cato

Ave Minerva!

Tiberius Marcius Quadra


________________________________
From: Cato <catoinnyc@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, March 19, 2012 11:23 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] a.d. XIV Kal. Apr.


 
Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XIV Kalendas Aprilis; hic dies nefastus publicus est.

"After a one day interval, the rites of Minerva are performed,
Which take their name from the sequence of five days.
The first day is bloodless, and sword fights are unlawful,
Because Minerva was born on that very day.
The next four are celebrated with gladiatorial shows,
The warlike goddess delights in naked swords.
Pray now you boys and tender girls to Pallas:
He who can truly please Pallas, is learned.
Pleasing Pallas let girls learn to card wool,
And how to unwind the full distaff.
She shows how to draw the shuttle through the firm
Warp, and close up loose threads with the comb.
Worship her, you who remove stains from damaged clothes,
Worship her, you who ready bronze cauldrons for fleeces.
If Pallas frowns, no one could make good shoes,
Even if he were more skilled than Tychius:
And even if he were cleverer with his hands
Than Epeus once was, he'll be useless if Pallas is angry.
You too who drive away ills with Apollo's art,
Bring a few gifts of your own for the goddess:
And don't scorn her, you schoolmasters, a tribe
So often cheated of its pay: she attracts new pupils:
Nor you engravers, and painters with encaustics,
Nor you who carve the stone with a skilful hand.
She's the goddess of a thousand things: and song for sure:
If I'm worthy may she be a friend to my endeavours.
Where the Caelian Hill slopes down to the plain,
At the point where the street's almost, but not quite, level,
You can see the little shrine of Minerva Capta,
Which the goddess first occupied on her birthday.
The source of the name is doubtful: we speak of
`Capital' ingenuity: the goddess is herself ingenious.
Or is it because, motherless, she leapt, with a shield
From the crown of her father's head (caput)?
Or because she came to us as a `captive' from the conquest
Of Falerii? This, an ancient inscription claims.
Or because her law ordains `capital' punishment
For receiving things stolen from that place?
By whatever logic your title's derived, Pallas,
Shield our leaders with your aegis forever." - Ovid, Fasti III

"I begin to sing of Pallas Athena, the glorious goddess, bright-eyed,
inventive, unbending of heart, pure virgin, saviour of cities,
courageous, Tritogeneia. From his awful head wise Zeus himself bare
her arrayed in warlike arms of flashing gold, and awe seized all the
gods as they gazed. But Athena sprang quickly from the immortal head
and stood before Zeus who holds the aegis, shaking a sharp spear:
great Olympos began to reel horribly at the might of the grey-eyed
goddess, and earth round about cried fearfully, and the sea was moved
and tossed with dark waves, while foam burst forth suddenly: the
bright Son of Hyperion [the Sun] stopped his swift-footed horses a
long while, until the maiden Pallas Athena had stripped the heavenly
armour from her immortal shoulders. And wise Zeus was glad. Hail to
you, daughter of Zeus who holds the aegis!" - Homeric Hymn 29 to
Athena

"Da, Diva, veniam si te non pecudum fibris, non sanguine fuso, quaero
nec arcanis numen coniecto sub extis. Dies admoniet et forti
sacrificare deae, quod est illa nata Minerva die. Pallada nunc oremus.
Qui bene placavit Pallada, doctus erit. Nec quisquam invita Pallade
faciet bene licet antiquo manibus conlatus Epeo sit prior, irata
Pallade mancus erit. Vos quoque, Phoeba morbos qui pellitis arte,
munera de vestris pauca referte deae. Nec vos, turba fere censu
fraudante, magistri, spernite; discipulos attrahit illa novos.
Mille dea est operum. Si mereramus, studiis adsit amica nostris.
Domina haec domii sodalitatisque patrona, te hoc sacrificio obmovendo
precamus uti sies volens propitius nobis domi familiaeque nostris;
harumce rerum ergo, macte hoc sacrificio. Sulis Minerva Belisama,
Medica, Sollertissima, Pallas, Athena, Propugnatrix, sive quo alio
nomine appelari volveris, aegida semper super nos extende." - Prayer
to Minerva, N. Moravius Vado

(Grant, Goddess, pardon, if I seek you not with the bodies of slain
beasts, nor with blood poured forth, nor divine heaven's will from the
secrets of their entrails. This day reminds us to sacrifice to the
strong goddess, for today is Minerva's birthday. Let us pray now to
Pallas, for whosoever wins Pallas' favour shall be learned. No one,
though more cunning in handiwork than old Epeus, can do well; he shall
be helpless, if Pallas be displeased with him. You too, who banish
sickness by Phoebus' art, bring from your earnings a few gifts to the
goddess. Schoolmasters, do not spurn her either, nor cheat her of
your earnings: she will bring you new students. She is the goddess of
a thousand works. May she be friendly to our pursuits, if we deserve
it. Lady, protectress of these households and this fellowship, in
making this offering to you we pray that you be propitious toward us
and our families; because of these things, be honoured by this
sacrifice).

Today we celebrate a festival of Minerva, the "Greater" Quinquatrus.
Ovid says that this festival was celebrated in commemoration of the
birthday of Minerva; but according to Festus it was sacred to Minerva
because her temple on the Aventine was consecrated on that day. The
temple stood outside the pomerium, and the exact year of its
construction is unknown, though it is first mentioned during the time
of the Second Punic War (218-202 B.C.). In keeping with the Roman
custom of temples serving purposes other than those specifically
religious, the Aventine temple was used as the headquarters of a
writer's and actor's guild.

Sacrifices were offered to Minerva, the goddess of war as well as
wisdom, arts and crafts, dyeing, science and trade, and patroness of
trumpet players. She was also the patroness of scholars and
pedagogues, who enjoyed a holiday at this time, with the pupils giving
their pedagogues gifts, dedicated to Minerva, at the close of the
festival. We see her depicted in art with Iuno and Iuppiter on the
Great Arch of Trajan, and she frequently appears on sarcophagi
offering a new life beyond the grave. The Roman goddess Minerva
probably derived from the Etruscan goddess Menrva, and was later
modelled on Greek Pallas Athena. Menrva was the Etruscan version of
Athena, and depicted similarly (with helm, spear, and shield). Like
Athena, Menrva was born from the head of a god, in her case Tinia, and
she is part of a triad with Tinia and Uni. Minerva sprang fully armed
from the head of Iuppiter, whose head had been split open with
Vulcan's axe.

Valete bene,

Cato




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

"Sadly I'm with very little time at the moment."

Sadly indeed as you make many good points

"Plato also stipulated the existence of the absolutes including the moral ones without the need of a supreme creator, so it can be argued for the existence of good without having religion in the mixture ;)"

I don't discount the existence of a Creator, although my religion is more deist then theist, but consider that moral absolutes can be established without recourse to religion. This would create a public morality that laves religion as a matter of individual conscience.

"I agree with you on how social conducts are incorporated in the moral code of the societies. I would also like to stress the fact that usually the behaviors take a lot of time to be incorporated in the moral code of the society but after they are there it is almost impossible to remove them even if change to have a negative effect. More since in ancient times there weren't that much competition between societies (they weren't much difference from their immediate neighbors) not only the behaviors that promote the competitively of the society were incorporated as also were neutral or negative ones."

Agreed, not all "moral" behaviors are necessarily "good". Some are a matter of long established custom without recourse to reason.

"Is there a Good and an Evil? Absolutes equal to all mankind? I would say no unless the ones that would lead to the survival or extinction of our specie."

Which leads back to my original point that moral actions lead to social cohesion and immoral ones to social anarchy on the assumption that social cohesion is (or was) required for species survival. Is there an individual morality independent of social morality? I would say no, with qualifications, in that our actions, moral or otherwise, are judged in relation to others and our effect on society.

"Does this mean that I consider everything valid or all moral codes to be equals? No, one thing is to say in the conceptual way how the moral codes may have developed other thing is to accept that because they have the same principle behind all are equally valid."

Agreed. I don't disparage any but neither do I hold them all the same in either cause or effect.

"One of the reasons I have joined NR is because I consider us to be the heirs of what was made in ancient Greece and Roma. And I feel we, in the so called Western world, are losing our cultural identity and what makes us different from the rest of the world and we do need to return to our cultural roots and rediscover ourselves once more. That doesn't mean we need to convert and impose our ways to the rest of the world but we should esteem and struggle for our own ways. One of the aspects of the difference is the concept of citizen with the inherit obligations and rights."

YES!!! I don't seek to impose ancient Roman virtues on anyone but to publicize them as an alternative to the current method of thinking that one is either religious or immoral. Rome had an underlying, unifying, system of public and private morality and virtue that worked across multiple belief systems and is sadly misunderstood and lacking today in the Western world. This more than any reason is why I joined as well.

"I love very much the books "The History of Government" by S. E. Finer that describes the several ways of government of different societies from ancient times to more recent, sadly he died before ending the books so the more modern ones are lacking. But these books are somewhat boring because without counting with the ancient Greece and Rome almost every society and type of the government are slightly variations of the same absolute ruler (not so absolute due to practical reasons) and subjects. When the concept of citizenship appears it is a fresh innovation and that only happen around page 300 of the first book! And sadly disappears soon enough. Nevertheless I strongly recommend these books."

Thank you I am always in search of intelligent reading matter

Vale

Gaius Claudius

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XIII Kalendas Aprilis; haec dies comitialis est.

"He abolished the common bath for both sexes. He reformed the morals
of the matrons and young nobles which were growing lax. He separated
the sacred rites of Serapis from the miscellaneous ceremonies of the
Pelusia." - Prudentius, writing of Marcus Aurelius AD 176

"Nam et sacris quibusdam per lauacrum initiantur, Isidis
alicuius aut Mithrae; ipsos etiam deos suos. Lauationibus efferunt.
ceterum uillas domos templa totasque urbes aspergine circumlatae aquae
expiant passim . Certe ludis Apollinaribus et Pelusiis tinguuntur
idque se in regenerationem et impunitatem periuriorum suorum agere
praesumunt. Item penes ueteres quisque se homicidio infecerat
purgatrices aquas explorabat." - Tertullian, "de Baptismo" ch. V

Today is the second day of the Quinquatrus in honor of Mars and
Minerva.

In Egypt, it was celebrated as the Pelusia, in honor of the goddesss
Isis, who caused the Nile River to begin its annual inundation.
Apparently (from Tertullian's writings) there was a ceremony very
similiar to baptism in which adherents of Isis dipped themselves in
the waters of the Nile.

Valete bene!

Cato

William James Dowie <http://www.facebook.com/wdowie>
Hmmm, I was not surprised to see the vast difference in the quality of
riveted mail over butted links, but I am a little surprised at how little
damage was caused by blows from the back of the blade.
Visualizza traduzione <http://www.facebook.com/#>
*Viking Weapon Test
Cuts<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juIw20z5p0c&feature=share>
*
www.youtube.com
We used sharp replica Viking-age weapons against an animal (pig) carcass to
judge the effects of these weapons on flesh and bone, and to assess the
protective ability of steel mail...
**




* Bene Valete
*Marcus Prometheus.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante dem XII Kalendas Aprilis; haec dies comitialis est.


"But when Zeus ordered Pluto to send up the Maid, Pluto gave her a
seed of a pomegranate to eat, in order that she might not tarry long
with her mother. Not foreseeing the consequence, she swallowed it;
and because Ascalaphus, son of Acheron and Gorgyra, bore witness
against her, Demeter laid a heavy rock on him in Hades. But
Persephone was compelled to remain a third of every year with Pluto
and the rest of the time with the gods." - Apollodorus, Library and
Epitrome 1.5.3

"When the fighting was now taking place by sanctuaries and houses, and
in the narrow lanes, between detached bodies in different parts of the
town, Pyrrhus left by himself was wounded in the head. It is said that
his death was caused by a blow from a tile thrown by a woman. The
Argives however declare that it was not a woman who killed him but
Demeter in the likeness of a woman. This is what the Argives
themselves relate about his end, and Lyceas, the guide for the
neighborhood, has written a poem which confirms the story. They have a
sanctuary of Demeter, built at the command of the oracle, on the spot
where Pyrrhus died, and in it Pyrrhus is buried." - Pausanius,
Description of Greece 1.13.8

"I begin to sing of rich-haired Demeter, awful goddess --of her and
her trim-ankled daughter whom Aidoneus rapt away, given to him by
all-seeing Zeus the loud-thunderer. Apart from Demeter, lady of the
golden sword and glorious fruits, she was playing with the
deep-bosomed daughters of Oceanus and gathering flowers over a soft
meadow, roses and crocuses and beautiful violets, irises also and
hyacinths and the narcissus, which Earth made to grow at the will of
Zeus and to please the Host of Many, to be a snare for the bloom-like
girl --- a marvellous, radiant flower. It was a thing of awe whether
for deathless gods or mortal men to see: from its root grew a hundred
blooms and it smelled most sweetly, so that all wide heaven above and
the whole earth and the sea's salt swell laughed for joy. And the girl
was amazed and reached out with both hands to take the lovely toy; but
the wide-pathed earth yawned there in the plain of Nysa, and the lord,
Host of Many, with his immortal horses sprang out upon her --the Son
of Cronos, He who has many names.

He caught her up reluctant on his golden car and bare her away
lamenting. Then she cried out shrilly with her voice, calling upon her
father, the Son of Cronos, who is most high and excellent. But no one,
either of the deathless gods or of mortal men, heard her voice, nor
yet the olive-trees bearing rich fruit: only tender-hearted Hecate,
bright-coiffed, the daughter of Persaeus, heard the girl from her
cave, and the lord Helios, Hyperion's bright son, as she cried to her
father, the Son of Cronos. But he was sitting aloof, apart from the
gods, in his temple where many pray, and receiving sweet offerings
from mortal men. So he, that son of Cronos, of many names, who is
Ruler of Many and Host of Many, was bearing her away by leave of Zeus
on his immortal chariot --- his own brother's child and all unwilling.

And so long as she, the goddess, yet beheld earth and starry heaven
and the strong-flowing sea where fishes shoal, and the rays of the
sun, and still hoped to see her dear mother and the tribes of the
eternal gods, so long hope calmed her great heart for all her trouble
... and the heights of the mountains and the depths of the sea rang
with her immortal voice: and her queenly mother heard her." - Homer,
Hymn to Demeter 1-35

"O Hail to Haides' bright-crowned queen,
Maiden of Elysium.
Beloved daughter of the earth,
Mighty is your justice.
All the world will mourn your passing,
And cheer at your return.
Alalai, alalai, alalai, ie Kore!
Alalai, alalai, alalai, ie Kore!

Bringer of the season's change,
Demeter of growing grain,
Awful goddess, raging one,
All will know your sorrow.
Lady of the Mysteries,
Mother of fair Kore,
Alalai, alalai, alalai, ie Demeter!
Alalai, alalai, alalai, ie Demeter!" - Carey Oxler, Song of Eleusis
(A.D. 2003)


Today is the festival of Demeter, the Greek earth goddess par
excellence, who brings forth the fruits of the earth, particularly the
various grains. She taught mankind the art of sowing and ploughing so
they could end their nomadic existence. As such, Demeter was also the
goddess of planned society. She was very popular with the rural
population. As a fertility goddess she is sometimes identified with
Rhea and Gaia. Demeter is a daughter of Cronus and Rhea and sister of
Zeus by whom she became the mother of Persephone. When Persephone was
abducted by Hades, lord of the underworld, Demeter wandered the earth
in search of her lost child. During this time the earth brought forth
no grain. Finally Zeus sent Hermes to the underworld, ordering Hades
to restore Persephone to her mother. However, before she left, Hades
gave her a pomegranate (a common fertility symbol). When she ate from
it, she was bound to spend a third of the year with her husband in the
infernal regions. Only when her daughter is with her, Demeter lets
things grow (summer). The dying and blossoming of nature was thus
connected with Demeter.

In the Eleusinian mysteries, Demeter and Persephone were especially
venerated. When she was looking for her daughter, in the shape of an
old woman called Doso, she was welcomed by Celeus, the king of Eleusis
(in Attica). He requested her to nurse his sons Demophon and
Triptolemus '. To reward his hospitality she intended to make the boy
Demophon immortal by placing him each night in the hearth, to burn his
mortal nature away. The spell was broken one night because Metanira,
the wife of Celeus, walked in on her while she was performing this
ritual. Demeter taught the other son, Triptolemus, the principles of
agriculture, who, in turn, taught others this art. In Demeter's honor
as a goddess of marriage, women in Athens, and other centers in
Greece, celebrated the feast of Thesmophoria (from her epithet
Thesmophoros, "she of the regular customs"). Throughout Classical
times members of all social strata came from all parts of the
Mediterranean world to be initiated in and celebrate her Mysteries at
Eleusis.

In ancient art, Demeter was often portrayed (sitting) as a solemn
woman, often wearing a wreath of braided ears of corn. Well-known is
the statue made by Knidos (mid forth century BCE). Her usual symbolic
attributes are the fruits of the earth and the torch, the latter
presumably referring to her search for Persephone. Her sacred animals
were the snake (an earth-creature) and the pig (another symbol of
fertility). Some of her epithets include Auxesia, Deo, Chloe, and
Sito, and she was adopted by the Romans yunder the name Ceres. Ceres
had a temple on the Aventine Hill, were she was worshipped together
with Liber and Libera.

Valete bene!

Cato

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est ante diem XI Kalendas Aprilis; hic dies nefastus est.

"In 1820, while excavations were proceeding near the western corner
of the Palatine an altar was discovered, of archaic type, inscribed
with the following dedication: 'Sacred to a Divinity, whether male or
female. Caius Sextius Calvinus, son of Caius, praetor, has restored
this altar by decree of the Senate.' Nibby and Mommsen believe
Calvinus to be the magistrate mentioned twice by Cicero as a
candidate against Glaucias in the contest for the praetorship of 125
B.C. They also identify the altar as a restoration of the one raised
behind the Temple of Vesta, in the 'lower New Street,' in memory of
the mysterious voice announcing the invasion of the Gauls, in the
stillness of the night, and warning the citizens to strengthen the
walls of their city. The voice was attributed to a local Genius, whom
the people named Aius Loquens or Locutius. As a rule, the priests
refrained from mentioning in public prayers the name and sex of new
and slightly known divinities, especially of local Genii, to which
they objected for two reasons: first, because there was danger of
vitiating the ceremony by a false invocation; secondly, because it
was prudent not to reveal the true name of these tutelary gods to the
enemy of the commonwealth, lest in case of war or siege he could
force them to abandon the defence of that special place, by
mysterious and violent rites. The formula si deus si dea, 'whether
god or goddess,' is a consequence of this superstition; its use is
not uncommon on ancient altars; Servius describes a shield dedicated
on the Capitol to the Genius of Rome, with the inscription:GENIO
URBIS ROMAE SIVE MAS SIVE FEMINA, 'to the tutelary Genius of the city
of Rome, whether masculine or feminine.'

On the 20th of September, 1890, the workmen employed in the
construction of the main sewer on the left bank of the Tiber, between
the Ponte S. Angelo and the church of S. Giovanni dei Fiorentini,
found a mediaeval wall, built of materials collected at random from
the neighboring ruins. Among them were fragments of one or more
inscriptions which described the celebrations of the Ludi Saeculares
under the Empire. By the end of the day, seventeen pieces had been
recovered, seven of which belonged to the records of the games
celebrated under Augustus, in the year 17 B.C., the others to those
celebrated under Septimius Severus and Caracalla, in the year 204
A.D. Later researches led to the discovery of ninety-six other
fragments, making a total of one hundred and thirteen, of which eight
are of the time of Augustus, two of the time of Domitian, and the
rest date from Severus.

The fragments of the year 17 B.C., fitted together, make a block
three metres high, containing one hundred and sixty-eight minutely
inscribed lines. This monument, now exhibited in the Baths of
Diocletian, was in the form of a square pillar enclosed by a
projecting frame, with base and capital of the Tuscan order, and it
measured, when entire, four metres in height. I believe that there is
no inscription among the thirty thousand collected in volume vi. of
the "Corpus" which makes a more profound impression on the mind, or
appeals more to the imagination than this official report of a state
ceremony which took place over nineteen hundred years ago, and was
attended by the most illustrious men of the age.

The origin of the saecular games seems to be this: In the early days
of Rome the northwest section of the Campus Martius, bordering on the
Tiber, was conspicuous for traces of volcanic activity. There was a
pool here called Tarentum or Terentum, fed by hot sulphur springs,
the efficiency of which is attested by the cure of Volesus, the
Sabine, and his family, described by Valerius Maximus. Heavy vapors
hung over the springs, and tongues of flame were seen issuing from
the cracks of the earth. The locality became known by the name of the
fiery field (campus ignifer), and its relationship with the infernal
realms was soon an established fact in folk-lore. An altar to the
infernal gods was erected on the borders of the pool, and games were
held periodically in honor of Dis and Proserpina, the victims being a
black bull and a black cow. Tradition attributed this arrangement of
time and ceremony to Volesus himself, who, grateful for the recovery
of his three children, offered sacrifices to Dis and Proserpina,
spread lectisternia, or reclining couches, for the gods, with tables
and viands before them, and celebrated games for three nights, one
for each child which had been restored to health. In the republican
epoch they were called Ludi Tarentini, from the name of the pool, and
were celebrated for the purpose of averting from the state the
recurrence of some great calamity by which it had been afflicted.
These calamities being contingencies which no man could foresee, it
is evident that the celebration of the Ludi Tarentini was in no way
connected with definite cycles of time, such as the saeculum." -
Rodolfo Lanciani, "Pagan and Christian Rome" ch. II, pp. 72-75

Valete bene!

Cato

Cato omnibus in foro SPD

Hodiernus dies est a.d. XI Kalendas Aprilis; hic dies nefastus publicus est.

"The last day of the five exhorts us to purify
The tuneful trumpets, and sacrifice to the mighty god.
Now you can turn your face to the Sun and say:
`He touched the fleece of the Phrixian Ram yesterday'.
The seeds having been parched, by a wicked stepmother's
Guile, the corn did not sprout in the usual way.
They sent to the oracle, to find by sure prophecy,
What cure the Delphic god would prescribe for sterility.
But tarnished like the seed, the messenger brought news
That the oracle sought the death of Helle and young Phrixus:
And when citizens, season, and Ino herself compelled
The reluctant king to obey that evil order,
Phrixus and his sister, brows covered with sacred bands,
Stood together before the altar, bemoaning their mutual fate.
Their mother saw them, as she hovered by chance in the air,
And, stunned, she beat her naked breasts with her hand:
Then, with the clouds as her companions, she leapt down
Into serpent-born Thebes, and snatched away her children:
And so that they could flee a ram, shining and golden,
Was brought, and it carried them over the wide ocean.
They say the sister held too weakly to the left-hand horn,
And so gave her own name to the waters below.
Her brother almost died with her, trying to help her
As she fell, stretching out his hands as far as he could.
He wept at losing her, his friend in their twin danger,
Not knowing she was now wedded to a sea-green god.
Reaching the shore the Ram was raised as a constellation,
While his golden fleece was carried to the halls of Colchis." - Ovid,
Fasti III

Today is the celebration of the Tubilustrium. The month of March was
the traditional start of the campaign season, and the Tubilustrium was
a ceremony to make the army fit for war. It was held on March 23, the
last day of the Greater Quinquatrus (the festival of Mars and
Minerva), and it occurred again on May 23. The sacred trumpets (tubae)
were originally war trumpets, but later they were used for ceremonial
occasions. It is not clear if the army was involved, or if it was
merely a ceremony to purify the trumpets used in summoning the
assembly on the following day. The ceremony was held in Rome in a
building called the Hall of the Shoemakers (atrium sutorium) and
involved the sacrifice of a ewe lamb. Romans who did not attend the
ceremony would be reminded of the occasion by seeing the Salii dancing
through the streets of the city.

Here you can listen to David Lovrien's "TUBILUSTRIUM":

http://www.lovebirdmusic.com/audio/brass/tubilustrium.mp3

The day is also dedicated to the god Vulcan, god of fire, especially
destructive fire, and craftsmanship. His forge is located beneath
Mount Etna. It is here that he, together with his helpers, forges
weapons for gods and heroes. Vulcanus is closely associated with Bona
Dea with whom he shared the Volcanalia, observed on August 23. This
festival took place during the height of the Mediterranean drought and
the period of highest risk of fire. On the banks of the river Tiber,
fires were lighted on which living fish were sacrificed. His temples
were usually located outside the cities, due to the dangerous nature
of fire. In 215 B.C. his temple on the Circus Flaminius was
inaugurated. In Ostia he was the chief god as the protector against
fire in the grain storages. He is identified with the Greek
Hephaestus.

Ovid mentions the story of Phrixus, who was the prince who was saved
on the point of sacrifice by a magical flying ram. Phrixus escaped
together with his sister Helle on the animal's back. Helle became
dizzy and fell into the sea (giving her name to the Hellespont). But
Phrixus fetched up in Colchis on the mysterious periphery of the
heroic world. Here he sacrificed the ram to Zeus, and hung the ram's
golden fleece in the sacred grove of Ares, god of war. This became the
object of the famous quest by Jason and the Argonauts.



Valete bene!

Cato

http://www.lovebirdmusic.com/audio/brass/tubilustrium.mp3

Salve!

OK, I must admit to not liking taxes but they are a necessary evil at times. I looked over this here:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Tax_rate_MMDCCLXV

but admit to being still a little confused as to what my rate is. Can someone help me out here? Is the paypal account still valid? I don't want to send my money off to the wrong group.

Vale!

G. Claudius Axenrothus

Caninus Axenrotho omnibusque sal.

You are a new citizen and it appears that for some reason you have not yet been assigned to a tribe or a century. So, since you live in the USA and only have basic citizenship century points, your tax rate would be at the Class 5 rate of $9.00 for the current year. If you have any questions about taxes you can contact the CFO - Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Vale bene!
 
M. Pompeius Caninus
America Boreoccidentalis
Vivat Nova Roma!




________________________________
From: Yehya <yehya_61@...>
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 1:40 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Taxes


 
Salve!

OK, I must admit to not liking taxes but they are a necessary evil at times. I looked over this here:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Tax_rate_MMDCCLXV

but admit to being still a little confused as to what my rate is. Can someone help me out here? Is the paypal account still valid? I don't want to send my money off to the wrong group.

Vale!

G. Claudius Axenrothus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

I do know for a fact that Claudius is in Class V.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Sat, Mar 24, 2012 at 3:07 PM, M. Pompeius Caninus
<m.pompeius@...>wrote:

> **
>
>
> Caninus Axenrotho omnibusque sal.
>
> You are a new citizen and it appears that for some reason you have not yet
> been assigned to a tribe or a century. So, since you live in the USA and
> only have basic citizenship century points, your tax rate would be at the
> Class 5 rate of $9.00 for the current year. If you have any questions about
> taxes you can contact the CFO - Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
>
> Vale bene!
>
> M. Pompeius Caninus
> America Boreoccidentalis
> Vivat Nova Roma!
>
> ________________________________
> From: Yehya <yehya_61@...>
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2012 1:40 PM
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Taxes
>
>
>
>
> Salve!
>
> OK, I must admit to not liking taxes but they are a necessary evil at
> times. I looked over this here:
>
> http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Tax_rate_MMDCCLXV
>
> but admit to being still a little confused as to what my rate is. Can
> someone help me out here? Is the paypal account still valid? I don't want
> to send my money off to the wrong group.
>
> Vale!
>
> G. Claudius Axenrothus
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete!

CALL TO CONVENE A FORMAL MEETING OF THE SENATE IN SESSION – 25TH MAR. – 31ST MAR. 2012
 
 
SCHEDULE:
 
12:00 AM MOUNTAIN TIME 25-MAR-2012 : Call to order. Debate period commences.
11:59 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 30-MAR-2012 : Debate period ends.
12:00 AM MOUNTAIN TIME 31-MAR-2012 : Call to vote. Voting period commences.
11:59 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 03-APR-2012 : Voting period ends.
23:59 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 07-APR-2012 : Calculation of votes and call to close to be issued after end voting and before this time.
 
 
AGENDA:
 
I.  Method of converting citizens from capite censi status to assidui status. (Debate & vote)
 
II. Recent statements of Aula Tullia Scholastica. (Debate & vote)
 
III. Annual tax rate for a new citizen unassigned to a century. (Debate & vote)
 
IV. Amendment - Forum Hospitum re. permitting discussion and participation in the ludi. (Debate & vote)
 
 
ATTACHMENTS:
 
Nil currently. Proposed Senatus consulta required for both items to be put to the vote will be presented in final form no less than 24 hours before commencement of voting.
 
 
NOTES:
 
A. Current tribunes to have standing right to speak at any time during this session. No prior permission required.
B. Mountain time = GMT - 7 / CET - 8
C. Presiding magistrate: Cn. Iulius Caesar.
D. Publication of the voting results should not be on the 6th April, but between 12:00 AM on the 4th April and 11:59 PM on the 5th April. Tribunician session final report can continue after close of session.
E. Due to limited time period available for the session, optional voting hour timeframe around sunset/sunrise either on CET or Mountain time dispensed with.
 
--
V.A. Regilla

Tribuna Plebis
Legata Pro Praetore Provinciae Argentinae
Legata Pro Praetore Provinciae Brasiliae

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iulia s.d,

> IV. Amendment - Forum Hospitum re. permitting discussion and participation in the ludi. (Debate & vote)

This is the purview of the Praetores? What is going on here?

Valete optime

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Denise D." <aemilia.regilla@...> wrote:
>
> Salvete!
>
> CALL TO CONVENE A FORMAL MEETING OF THE SENATE IN SESSION â€" 25TH MAR. â€" 31ST MAR. 2012
>  
>  
> SCHEDULE:
>  
> 12:00 AM MOUNTAIN TIME 25-MAR-2012 : Call to order. Debate period commences.
> 11:59 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 30-MAR-2012 : Debate period ends.
> 12:00 AM MOUNTAIN TIME 31-MAR-2012 : Call to vote. Voting period commences.
> 11:59 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 03-APR-2012 : Voting period ends.
> 23:59 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 07-APR-2012 : Calculation of votes and call to close to be issued after end voting and before this time.
>  
>  
> AGENDA:
>  
> I.  Method of converting citizens from capite censi status to assidui status. (Debate & vote)
>  
> II. Recent statements of Aula Tullia Scholastica. (Debate & vote)
>  
> III. Annual tax rate for a new citizen unassigned to a century. (Debate & vote)
>  
> IV. Amendment - Forum Hospitum re. permitting discussion and participation in the ludi. (Debate & vote)
>  
>  
> ATTACHMENTS:
>  
> Nil currently. Proposed Senatus consulta required for both items to be put to the vote will be presented in final form no less than 24 hours before commencement of voting.
>  
>  
> NOTES:
>  
> A. Current tribunes to have standing right to speak at any time during this session. No prior permission required.
> B. Mountain time = GMT - 7 / CET - 8
> C. Presiding magistrate: Cn. Iulius Caesar.
> D. Publication of the voting results should not be on the 6th April, but between 12:00 AM on the 4th April and 11:59 PM on the 5th April. Tribunician session final report can continue after close of session.
> E. Due to limited time period available for the session, optional voting hour timeframe around sunset/sunrise either on CET or Mountain time dispensed with.
>  
> --
> V.A. Regilla
>
> Tribuna Plebis
> Legata Pro Praetore Provinciae Argentinae
> Legata Pro Praetore Provinciae Brasiliae
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Caesar Iulia sal.

The Senate established Forum Hospitum by Senatus consultum. I am giving the Senate the opportunity to amend that Senatus consultum if it wishes and clarify this matter. The day to day administration of Forum Hospitum is under the purview of the Praetors but the Senate decreed its creation and has oversight via Senatus consultum.

Optime vale

From: luciaiuliaaquila
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 7:58 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: CALL TO CONVENE THE SENATE - 25MAR12 - 31MAR12 (AMENDMENT #1)


Iulia s.d,

> IV. Amendment - Forum Hospitum re. permitting discussion and participation in the ludi. (Debate & vote)

This is the purview of the Praetores? What is going on here?

Valete optime

Julia




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iulia Caesari cos. salutem

> The Senate established Forum Hospitum by Senatus consultum. I am giving the Senate the opportunity to amend that Senatus consultum if it wishes and clarify this matter.

On such a matter as this? Our Praetores are both very capable of making the decisions the Senate entrusted then with. I have to say that somehow I feel that this would have never sat well with neither you or Marinus as Praetores and i hope it does not with our current Praetores. Theirs is an executive and legal magistrate and to entrust them with administration of the FH is to do just that - trust that they will administrate and apply law as defined by praetoria postesta, praetorium imperium and praetorium ius.

This, in my opinion, is micro-management and the senate has bigger fish to fry. This should be left in the hands of our very capable praetores.

>The day to day administration of Forum Hospitum is under the purview of the Praetors but the Senate decreed its creation and has oversight via Senatus consultum.

Then leave it in the hands of our Praetores because it is under their purview.
If the Senate so embraces the "the opportunity to amend that Senatus consultum if it wishes and clarify this matter" then they should administer and manage it themselves. What article IV indicates is a lack of trust in the Praetores to do their job. it appears as if saying, "yes, on paper this is under your purview but at anytime we can undermine you." It could very well be perceived like that. Maybe someone didn't like the way the Praetores were doing their job and asked for intercession rather than addressing the Praetores themselves.

Optime vale consobrine,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar" <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> Caesar Iulia sal.
>
> The Senate established Forum Hospitum by Senatus consultum. I am giving the Senate the opportunity to amend that Senatus consultum if it wishes and clarify this matter. The day to day administration of Forum Hospitum is under the purview of the Praetors but the Senate decreed its creation and has oversight via Senatus consultum.
>
> Optime vale
>
> From: luciaiuliaaquila
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 7:58 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: CALL TO CONVENE THE SENATE - 25MAR12 - 31MAR12 (AMENDMENT #1)
>
>
> Iulia s.d,
>
> > IV. Amendment - Forum Hospitum re. permitting discussion and participation in the ludi. (Debate & vote)
>
> This is the purview of the Praetores? What is going on here?
>
> Valete optime
>
> Julia
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Caesar Iuliae sal.

The original Senatus consultum clearly has a flaw in it. There is a difference of opinion over whether the phrase ‘internal affairs” includes the ludi or not. It isn’t clearly defined and it needs to be. This needs to be decided by clarifying the Senatus consultum by amendment. That way there won’t be time wasted on this issue in the future. That way there will be consistency of application, rather than relying on praetorial edictum year to year.

Day to day administration of FH is the responsibility of the praetors. Fixing an omission/error/oversight/doubt in the enabling Senatus consultum that created Forum Hospitum is the responsibility of the Senate. Once that is done the praetors can continue to administer the list on the day to day basis.

Section IV is included to ensure that future praetors do not accidentally or deliberately try to exploit a process of approval to delay messages. It makes sense to clarify such matters in order to prevent future problems.

Optime vale


From: luciaiuliaaquila
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:11 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: CALL TO CONVENE THE SENATE - 25MAR12 - 31MAR12 (AMENDMENT #1)


Iulia Caesari cos. salutem

> The Senate established Forum Hospitum by Senatus consultum. I am giving the Senate the opportunity to amend that Senatus consultum if it wishes and clarify this matter.

On such a matter as this? Our Praetores are both very capable of making the decisions the Senate entrusted then with. I have to say that somehow I feel that this would have never sat well with neither you or Marinus as Praetores and i hope it does not with our current Praetores. Theirs is an executive and legal magistrate and to entrust them with administration of the FH is to do just that - trust that they will administrate and apply law as defined by praetoria postesta, praetorium imperium and praetorium ius.

This, in my opinion, is micro-management and the senate has bigger fish to fry. This should be left in the hands of our very capable praetores.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Iulia Caesari sal,

Thank you so much for taking time out of your Sunday morning to field my questions, Consul.

> The original Senatus consultum clearly has a flaw in it. There is a difference of opinion over whether the phrase ‘internal affairs” includes the ludi or not. It isn’t clearly defined and it needs to be.

Just the fact that it needs to be defined clearly gives a hint that in the course of the Ludi information regarding internal affairs may very well leak. Inclusion of a little controversy would not only spice them up a bit but make them look more like Nova Roma. Blanket inclusion of the Ludi on the FH will make OUR Ludi susceptible to censorship and may very well stifle the creativity and veritas of our future Ludi.

I see no reason why selected excerpts and perhaps a version of a game or two be offered but those on the FH should not be allowed to compete with our citizens. Those competing as citizens have earned that opportunity and, personally, I would rather see a citizen win rather than a stranger from the FH who are unknown to most. It lacks fairness.

>That way there won’t be time wasted on this issue in the future...That way there will be consistency of application, rather than relying on praetorial edictum year to year.

The yearly praetorial edictum is a very valuable legal document. And because it is yearly it is flexible enough to be pertinent to the current state of the ML and so the praetores can manage it thusly. The people entrusted our praetores to do so. This is not a waste of time, it is the purview of the Praetores.

> Section IV is included to ensure that future praetors do not accidentally or deliberately try to exploit a process of approval to delay messages. It makes sense to clarify such matters in order to prevent future problems.

I think it might be a little paranoid to think someone could deliberately exploit the message approval process because there are so many of us in the praetura of varied degrees of differences in our politics and we watchdog each other.
I have been in the praetura for a few years now and I have never ever seen what you describe. Only one year was a travesty made of the praetura and that was an open attack against the people because of the lack of self discipline, logic and reason on the part of said praetrix, and yes she was someone's tool. But that was hardly private. And i resigned because of it, and also because I was about to attempt to moderate said praetrix so that last was self preservation *laughs*.

Otherwise i have been proud to be a part of the praetura and found those others serving with me considerate, prudent and fair. Had they not been I would have said something. If I saw something that concerned me, I spoke up, just as I do so today;)

What makes more sense to me, for this year, is to clarify the process for applicants for membership to the ML. Which our praetores did nicely. So now, simply, if they are not already a citizen ann applicant is denied. Period. No more waiting endlessly in the pending members section until the apply and get approved by the censura. Clear, concise and reasonable. I do hope the Senate listens to our praetores.

Again thank you for being available to discuss these issues.

Optime vale,

Julia

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Gnaeus Iulius Caesar" <gn_iulius_caesar@...> wrote:
>
> Caesar Iuliae sal.
>
> The original Senatus consultum clearly has a flaw in it. There is a difference of opinion over whether the phrase ‘internal affairs” includes the ludi or not. It isn’t clearly defined and it needs to be. This needs to be decided by clarifying the Senatus consultum by amendment. That way there won’t be time wasted on this issue in the future. That way there will be consistency of application, rather than relying on praetorial edictum year to year.
>
> Day to day administration of FH is the responsibility of the praetors. Fixing an omission/error/oversight/doubt in the enabling Senatus consultum that created Forum Hospitum is the responsibility of the Senate. Once that is done the praetors can continue to administer the list on the day to day basis.
>
> Section IV is included to ensure that future praetors do not accidentally or deliberately try to exploit a process of approval to delay messages. It makes sense to clarify such matters in order to prevent future problems.
>
> Optime vale
>
>
> From: luciaiuliaaquila
> Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 9:11 AM
> To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: CALL TO CONVENE THE SENATE - 25MAR12 - 31MAR12 (AMENDMENT #1)
>
>
> Iulia Caesari cos. salutem
>
> > The Senate established Forum Hospitum by Senatus consultum. I am giving the Senate the opportunity to amend that Senatus consultum if it wishes and clarify this matter.
>
> On such a matter as this? Our Praetores are both very capable of making the decisions the Senate entrusted then with. I have to say that somehow I feel that this would have never sat well with neither you or Marinus as Praetores and i hope it does not with our current Praetores. Theirs is an executive and legal magistrate and to entrust them with administration of the FH is to do just that - trust that they will administrate and apply law as defined by praetoria postesta, praetorium imperium and praetorium ius.
>
> This, in my opinion, is micro-management and the senate has bigger fish to fry. This should be left in the hands of our very capable praetores.
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Iulia Quiritibus S.P.D.

Updated pages on the wiki:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Flora
and
http://novaroma.org/nr/Floralia

There will be more as time permits, I have a lot of excellent subject matter to be posted. And when I figure out how to post images, since the instructions are vague (to me)I shall also post some lovely images.

I have closed Aedes Venus Genetrix (aka Temple of Venus) and the Mystic Sanctuary of Fortuna Primigenia on meetup because it was not meeting internet needs and our local Temple meets regularly and we have found a few excellent alternative methods to announce our rituals, workshops and meetings.
The new internet venue for the Temples are on facebook and so far they are well received and easily negotiated. I have already moved many interesting teaching aids and discussions (in documents).
Please read group descriptions as they have different (but compatible and sometimes crossover) objectives.
It is open to all.

Aedes Venus Genetrix:

https://www.facebook.com/aedesvenusgenetrix

Mystic Sanctuary of Fortunae Primigenia:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/MysticSanctuary/

Feel free to ask any questions.



L. Julia Aquila
Securum in tenebris me facit esse Venus
Sacerdos Veneris Genetricis
Pontifex Novæ Romæ
Sacerdos Prima A.Æ

Ave!

There seems to be a disagreement in the two Praetors opinion, so....the
Senate is going to issue their say to try to help reach an accommodation.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Sun, Mar 25, 2012 at 6:58 AM, luciaiuliaaquila <
luciaiuliaaquila@...> wrote:

> **
>
>
> Iulia s.d,
>
> > IV. Amendment - Forum Hospitum re. permitting discussion and
> participation in the ludi.� (Debate & vote)
>
> This is the purview of the Praetores? What is going on here?
>
> Valete optime
>
> Julia
>
>
> --- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "Denise D." <aemilia.regilla@...> wrote:
> >
> > Salvete!
> >
> > CALL TO CONVENE A FORMAL MEETING OF THE SENATE IN SESSION ��" 25TH MAR.
> ��" 31ST MAR. 2012
> > �
> > �
> > SCHEDULE:
> > �
>
> > 12:00 AM MOUNTAIN TIME 25-MAR-2012 : Call to order. Debate period
> commences.
> > 11:59 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 30-MAR-2012 : Debate period ends.
> > 12:00 AM MOUNTAIN TIME 31-MAR-2012 : Call to vote. Voting period
> commences.
> > 11:59 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 03-APR-2012 : Voting period ends.
> > 23:59 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 07-APR-2012 : Calculation of votes and call to
> close to be issued after end voting and before this time.
> > �
> > �
> > AGENDA:
> > �
> > I.� � Method of converting citizens from capite censi status to
> assidui� status.� (Debate & vote)
> > �
> > II.� Recent statements of Aula Tullia Scholastica.� (Debate & vote)
> > �
> > III. Annual tax rate for a new citizen� unassigned to a
> century.� (Debate & vote)
> > �
> > IV. Amendment - Forum Hospitum re. permitting discussion and
> participation in the ludi.� (Debate & vote)
> > �
> > �
> > ATTACHMENTS:
> > �
>
> > Nil currently. Proposed Senatus consulta required for both items to be
> put to the vote will be presented in final form no less than 24 hours
> before commencement of voting.
> > �
> > �
> > NOTES:
> > �
>
> > A. Current tribunes to have standing right to speak at any time during
> this session. No prior permission required.
> > B. Mountain time = GMT - 7 / CET - 8
> > C. Presiding magistrate: Cn. Iulius Caesar.
> > D. Publication of the voting results should not be on the 6th April, but
> between 12:00 AM on the 4th April and 11:59 PM on the 5th April.
> Tribunician session final report can continue after close of session.
> > E. Due to limited time period available for the session, optional voting
> hour timeframe around sunset/sunrise either on CET or Mountain time
> dispensed with.
> > �
>
> > --
> > V.A. Regilla
> >
> > Tribuna Plebis
> > Legata Pro Praetore� Provinciae� Argentinae
> > Legata Pro Praetore� Provinciae� Brasiliae
>
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Iuliae sal.

I think we have to be realistic here. Information will “leak” regardless. Nova Roma resembles a Swiss cheese in that respect. To try to prevent leaks is futile. The purpose of the prohibition on discussion of internal affairs was always intended to be negative internal affairs. As a Nova Roman list it has no obligation to turn itself into a self-flagellating list. Preventing outburst from ex-citizens, current citizens all with an axe to grind, regardless of whatever “political” persuasion is not conducive to the purpose of Forum Hospitum.

As to whether selected excerpts or not should be allowed, or the full program and participation, my preference is for full participation. If people are keen to do so, I don’t think keeping it to citizens only advances the goal of encouraging people to move to citizenship. It is not as though a deluge of non-citizens will drown out the citizen participation. That of course is my personal preference, and the Senate may opt for a different view.

The Forum was created by Senatus consultum, by the Senate, and the Senate can re-shape that if they wish. The purpose was to prevent negative discussion of internal affairs, but due to loose wording that has been seen to mean also including preventing discussion of the ludi. I don’t believe that was the intention of the Senate so we will ask them and see. As much as the praetorial edict is a useful function, so is consular referral to the Senate to decide an issue that the Senate created. I personally voted for the creation of Forum Hospitum and I never foresaw this as an issue, but it has become so. Therefore what the Senate created the Senate can decide if it wishes to fix.

As to paranoid, no. It simply recognizes in the past this has been a method of interdicting comments from reaching a list, to leave them sitting on hold. It just prevents a previous course of action being re-employed again in the future. Prevention is better than cure.

Optime vale

From: luciaiuliaaquila
Sent: Sunday, March 25, 2012 10:27 AM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: CALL TO CONVENE THE SENATE - 25MAR12 - 31MAR12 (AMENDMENT #1)


Iulia Caesari sal,

Thank you so much for taking time out of your Sunday morning to field my questions, Consul.

> The original Senatus consultum clearly has a flaw in it. There is a difference of opinion over whether the phrase ‘internal affairs” includes the ludi or not. It isn’t clearly defined and it needs to be.

Just the fact that it needs to be defined clearly gives a hint that in the course of the Ludi information regarding internal affairs may very well leak. Inclusion of a little controversy would not only spice them up a bit but make them look more like Nova Roma. Blanket inclusion of the Ludi on the FH will make OUR Ludi susceptible to censorship and may very well stifle the creativity and veritas of our future Ludi.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]