C. Petronius Dexter Pontifex Maximus omnibus Quiritibus salutem dicit
plurimam,



Today morning, capite velato, I invoked Iuno Covella by saying the
traditional

formula:



"Die Septimi te kalo Iuno Covella"

"Die Septimi te kalo Iuno Covella"

"Die Septimi te kalo Iuno Covella"

"Die Septimi te kalo Iuno Covella"

"Die Septimi te kalo Iuno Covella"

"Die Septimi te kalo Iuno Covella"

"Die Septimi te kalo Iuno Covella"



I offered incense and saying prayers I asked the Goddess to be favorable
toward us, the Quirites of Nova Roma.

This month the nundinal letter is "F".

The festivals to be celebrated in the month of May shall be:



MAIVS


1 A Kal. Mai. F Ludi
Florales

2 B a.d. VI Non.Mai. F Ater, Ludi
Florales

3 C a.d. V Non.Mai. C Ludi
Florales

4 D a.d. IV Non.Mai. C

5 E a.d. III Non.Mai. C

6 F Pr Non. Mai. C Nundina

7 G Non. Mai. N
Religiosus

8 H a.d. VIII Id. Mai. F Ater

9 A a.d. VII Id. Mai. N
Religiosus, Lemuria

10 B a.d. VI Id. Mai. C

11 C a.d. V Id. Mai. N
Religiosus, Lemuria

12 D a.d. IV Id. Mai. C Ludi
Martiales

13 E a.d. III Id. Mai. NP
Religiosus, Lemuria

14 F Pr Id. Mai. C
Nundina

15 G Id. Mai. NP
Religiosus

16 H a.d. XVII Kal.Iun. F Ater

17 A a.d. XVI Kal.Iun. C

18 B a.d. XV Kal.Iun. C

19 C a.d. XIV Kal.Iun. C

20 D a.d. XIII Kal.Iun. C

21 E a.d. XII Kal.Iun. NP Agonium

22 F a.d. XI Kal.Iun. N Nundina

23 G a.d. X Kal.Iun. NP Tubilustrium

24 H a.d. IX Kal.Iun. Q.R.C.F.

25 A a.d. VIII Kal.Iun. C

26 B a.d. VII Kal.Iun. C

27 C a.d. VI Kal.Iun. C

28 D a.d. V Kal.Iun. C

29 E a.d. IV Kal.Iun. C

30 F a.d. III Kal.Iun. C Nundina

31 G Pr Kal.Iun. C





At the end I poured a libation of milk thanking to the Goddess for Her

benevolence.



Optime valete.



--

C. Petronius Dexter

Arcoiali scribebat

Kalendis Maiis MMDCCLXVI





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve,

I think it's good that this discussion is happening, as the disappearance of the College of Pontiffs has been something I've noticed during my time in Nova Roma. I don't mean to jump in out of turn, but I'm pretty sure that the application to the priesthood being discussed here is mine, and I'd just like to say a few words here in the hopes that it might clarify things.

I originally submitted the application over a year ago, and received no word, and my attempts to receive updates went unanswered. Then Cornelius Lentullus, who has been nothing but delightful, e-mailed me towards the end of last year and apologized for my slipping through the cracks and asked if I was still interested. I said that I was, and he told me he would forward the application. Around about February I got tired of waiting, and asked him about the status of the application. He told me it was under consideration, and asked me to be patient as the organization operated rather sluggishly. I haven't heard anything since and have more or less given up hope.

I was hoping that even if not deemed qualified, and I wasn't expecting to be simply ushered into a priestly position, I would receive guidance on how I might increase my proficiency in order to become qualified, which is certainly the procedure spelled out on the old Camellia program page. The fact is even if I am unqualified I doubt somehow that I'm woefully unqualified; I did write my MA thesis on the cult in question.

Again, I do apologize if anyone feels I don't belong in this conversation, but I felt like to remain silent was to withhold relevant information.

Vale,

A. Apollonius Antullus

Ave Antullus et Pontiffs et Omnes,

I believe the applicant was a female, but I can double check it to be
certain.

After double checking it is unclear, Dexter just mentioned something
regarding an elderly woman which I saw.

Back to the topic at hand. We now have two citizens who verify through
their own experiences the institutional failing that currently exists and
one Pontiff who thinks that doing the bare minimum is sufficient, when it
clearly is not.

I am not an unreasonable person,I want the CP to recognize that the issue I
have brought up is relevant, is apparent and that they have a plan to fix
it. If they do, WE ALL WIN. Nova Roma WINS.

Pontiffs, It is May 1st. Out of my respect for your office and your
mission I am going to give you one last shot to fix this situation to
remedy the institutional failings that have been pointed out on the ML. I
will give you til May 8th to come up with a plan of action to fix this. I
want you to take the initiative and do what is right for your mission, your
position and for Nova Roma. May 8th. This plan of action must be posted
publicly on the official Fora of Nova Roma.

If there is no plan presented by May 8th this matter will be discussed in
the Senate - and I will get involved more in this more than just sending
emails on the ML, that much I can assure you.

Pontiffs, Recognize the problem, address the problem, resolve the problem.
3 steps. Thats all I have been asking. No more excuses no more
rationalizations.

And, Fabius, I saw your email to me this morning. YOU WILL NOT THREATEN ME
AT ALL. The next time you threaten me will be your last. You are not
speaking to Robert Woolwine, or Sulla but you are speaking to the Consul of
Nova Roma and the next time you threaten me will be your last in Nova Roma.


Respectfully,

Sulla

http://bloggingpompeii.blogspot.ca/2013/04/iphone-and-ipad-app-life-and-death-in.html

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus pontifex, sacerdos Concordiae: consulibus, praetoribus, tribunis plebis, senatui populoque Novo Romano: salutem plurimam dicit:

Salvete, Quirites!

I continue fulfilling my vow that was to sacrifice on each Kalends to Concordia for our unity, strength and growth. in the Sacred Year of our 15th Anniversary. Today I have performed the Kalends Ritual to Concordia for our Sacred Year of Concordia, Quindecennalia (15th Anniversary year).

May Dea Concordia bless our community with peace, growth and unity! May Concordia help us in our ways to restore the Roman culture, society and virtues! It is only through unity and comradeship that we can reach great and hole goals; the goals we life for, the restoration classical Roman religion, culture and virtues.

People and Magistartes of Nova Roma: Pray to Concordia to create unity and growth, to help us to fulfill our final goal.

I have performed the following ritual today:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SACRIFICIVM CONCORDIAE KALENDIS MAIIS ANNO XV NOVAE ROMAE CONDITAE

Favete linguis!

(Beginning of the sacrifice.)

1. PRAEFATIO

Dea Concordia,
hisce Kalendis Maiis anni quinti decimi Novae Romae conditae
te hoc ture commovendo bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitia Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
novis magistratis, nobis quaestoribus,
Collegio Pontificum,
mihi, domo, familiae!

[Goddess Concordia,
on these Kalends of May of the Fifteenth Anniversary Year of the founding of Nova Roma,
by offering you this incense, I pray good prayers so
that you may be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
to the College of Pontiffs,
to me, to my household and to my family.]

(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)

Dea Concordia,
Dea pacis et fortitudinis Senatus Populique Novi Romani Quiritium,
uti te ture commovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte lacte inferio esto!"

[Goddess Concordia,
Goddess of peace and strength of the Nova Roman Senate and People of the Quirites,
as by offering you the incense I have well prayed good prayers,
for the very same reason be thou blessed by this sacrificial milk.]

(Libation of milk is made.)

2. PRECATIO

Dea Concordia,
hisce Kalendis Maiis anni quinti decimi Novae Romae conditae
te precor, veneror, quaesoque obtestorque:
uti pacem concordiamque et iustitiam constantem societati Novae Romae tribuas;
utique Rem Publicam Populi Novi Romani Quiritium confirmes, augeas, adiuves,
omnibusque discordiis liberes;
utique Res Publica Populi Novi Romani Quiritium semper floreat;
atque hoc anno anniversarii quinti decimi Novae Romae conditae convalescat;
atque pax et concordia, salus et gloria Novae Romae omni tempore crescat,
utique omnes qui se Romanos nominant unifices,
unum populum unamque gentem omnes qui se Romanos nominant facias,
unum populum in Nova Roma omnes Romanos hodiernos colligas;
utique Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae
omnes in hoc anno sexto decimo Novae Romae conditae eventus bonos faustosque esse siris;
utique sies volens propitia
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus, quaestoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebis Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
Collegio Pontificum,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulieribus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!

[Goddess Concordia,
on these Kalends of May of the Fifteenth Anniversary Year of the founding of Nova Roma,
I pray, worship, ask and beseech you so
that you may grant peace and steadfast concord to the society of Nova Roma;
so that you may confirm, strengthen and help
the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
and save it from all discord;
so that the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites
may always flourish and prosper,
and in this year of the 15th Anniversary may get even stronger;
that peace and concord, the welfare and glory of Nova Roma may increase all the time;
and that you may unite all people who call themselves Roman,
make them who call themselves Roman one people and one nation,
collect together all modern Romans as one nation united into Nova Roma;
and that you allow all events in this 16th Year of Nova Roma to be good and salutary
to the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to me, to my household and to my family;
and so that you may be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the magistrates, consuls, the praetors, the quaestors of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the tribunes of the Nova Roman Plebs,
to the Nova Roman Senate,
to the College of Pontiffs,
to all Nova Roman citizens, men and women, boys and girls,
to me, to my household and to my family.]

3. SACRIFICIUM

Sicut verba nuncupavi,
quaeque ita faxis,
uti ego me sentio dicere:
harum rerum ergo macte,
hoc lacte melle mixto libando,
hoc ture ommovendo
esto fito volens propitia
et hoc anno anniversarii quinti decimi Novae Romae conditae et semper
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus, quaestoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebis Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
Collegio Pontificum,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulierbus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!

[As I have these words pronounced,
you shall do exactly
what I mean I am saying:
for all these reasons, thou blessedby offering this milk with honey,
by offering this incense
be benevolent and propitious
both in this year of the 15th Anniversary of the founding of Nova Roma and always,
to the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the magistrates, the consuls, the praetors, the quaestors of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the tribunes of the Nova Roman Plebs,
to the Nova Roman Senate,
to the College of Pontiffs,
to all Nova Roman citizens, men and women, boys and girls,
to me, to my household and to my family.]


(Libation of milk with honey is made and incense is
sacrificed.)

Ilicet!

(End of the sacrifice.)

5. PIACULUM

Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Omnes Di Immortales quocumque nomine:
si quidquam vobis in hac caerimonia displicet,
hoc lacte inferio veniam peto et vitium meum expio.

[Concordia of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
All Gods Immortal by whathever name I may call you:
if anything in this ceremony was displeasing to you,
with this sacrificial milk I ask forgiveness and expiate my fault.]

(I offered incense on the altar and poured a libation of wine on the altar.)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus pontifex L. Sullae consuli s. d.

Although I'm not the pontifex maximus to speak in the name of the whole Sacred College without specific authorization, I think it is important to answer this issue brought up by the consul as it is of vital and extreme importance, especially since, very sadly, most of those people who were the most dedicated to the Roman religion left or had to leave Nova Roma, leaving us in a very difficult situation when it comes to our manpower of workers in the fields of cultus deorum, which maskes the question of priesthood applications even more crucial than it would be normally.

First of all, and just very briefly, I want to clarify that my conscience is crystal clear in that matter because I did always and everything up to my best abilities to answer private and public questions regarding our Roman religion, I helped all citizens and non-citizens who turned to me with their prayer requests or questions, and, in fact, I was the person who contacted applicants for priesthoods and registered their applications with the Collegium Pontificum. So I don't think there is anything more I could do as a single pontifex. On the other hand, I recognize L. Sulla's criticism of the working of the Collegium as valid criticism, and I agree with him that steps to correct this situation are necessary and urgent. Please allow me only one remark, alone. It would have been both much more productive, constructive, and pointing us to the right direction, if this criticism had been first sent directly to the College, secondly, again to the College, but
with an alert that in case of unresponsiveness the cause will be brought publicly into the forum. And only after having failure with the second try should the College have been accused the way it is accused now. This is what I wanted to say in defense of my collegae.

Now to the matter.

L. Sulla consul, you ask that certain problematic things within the college be addressed and an action plan be proposed no later than 8th May. I hope what I write below will satisfy what you request.

1. APPLICATIONS

There are 4 applications pending for priesthoods. I present the following proposal regarding them:

1.1. All applicants shall be included into a training program with the title camillus/camilla (plural: camilli) of the deity they wish to serve. As camilli they will be allowed to perform basic religious activity for their chosen deity, under the supervision of the College.

1.2. The camilli will have to go through a provisional training program. This training program will be later a matter of modification, refinement, redesign, and lots of changes, but since we have to start somewhere, and we have nothing better yet, we shall start it now with what we have. I am personally willing to do this training program with these camilli, but I am glad to use the assistance and cooperation of other pontifices as well; but I want to stress that this program, now, has to be started right now, and quickly. I see no place for lengthy planning and theoretical discussions. These can be continued in parallel as the course proceed, and they may be built in into the next training program. What I want to say, let's do it, start it, and reforms or improvements will be done later. Don't take my training program as something forced on the College for a long time. It's an adhoc measure. 

1.3. I will offer them 3 short training courses:

1.3.1. Introduction to the theory and reconstruction of Roman religion;

1.3.2. Basic reconstructive prayer composition;

1.3.3. The basics of performing Roman rituals.

1.4. My traing program and courses will be basic, and will be constructed during they will be done. It does not mean I will make it up as I go. Of course, not. But the material I want to share with my trainees is not yet written (in fact, some of them are already written), but will be written before each lesson. In fact, I thought a lot about creating such courses and training program for many years, so I'm pretty sure about what I want to do, and it will be a quite useful - and not overwhelming - thing for these camilli.

1.5. After the program is finished, the camilli write a test, and if they absolve it, the College appoints them as sacerdos of the gived deity they want to serve. If someone fails the test, he can repeat it as many time as he wishes. If someone wants to be a high priest, say flamen or pontifex, he shall spend a year or at least 6 months as plain sacerdos before being promoted to flaminate or pontificate, and during that period he shall demonstrate he is able to perform rituals, advise others on sacred matters, available to work, responsive, dedicated and dutiful.

That is my action plan regarding the applications.

2. GENERAL MANAGEMENT OF THE COLLEGIUM

Regarding the smooth management of the Collegium Pontificum, I have a short proposal.

2.1. I suggest that the Collegium Pontificum elects a secretary among the pontifices every sixth month to assure that all important matters of religious decisions keep on going. This is a very important thing, because the position of the pontifex maximus is a life long appointment, but it may happen that he, even perhaps against his will, because of life issues, can not maintain his duty. To assure that the religious politics is always taken care of, all Nova Roman pontifices have been empowered to exercise the same rights as the pontifex maximus. So, in the current system, we have pontifices who can act as pontifex maximus, and 1 actual pontifex maximus, who, besides bearing this title, has no other powers than the other pontifices (except a few formality). This system is a quite good solution for NR, but it is well known that if the responsibility is divided among too many people it may happen that nobody acts at the end. Therefore, my suggestion is
that in addition to the current system, we intoduce an internal office within the collegium pontificum, the secretary of the collegium. The job of this pontifex should be to check the pontifex maximus whether he can maintain his duties satisfactorily, and to ensure that the collegium is convened at least once per month. The current system would remain, i.e. all pontifices would be able to convene the collegium, but now we would have one (the secretary), who would be obliged to do it if the PM or the other pontifices don't do it. The secretary's job would be to remind the PM to convene the collegium and to help the PM to prepare its agenda, or, if the PM is unavailable or unwilling to convene the collegium, the secretary should urge the other pontifices to volunteer to do it, or he can do it himself, if others are likewise busy or unwiling.

2.2. In my proposed system, the pontifex maximus should be a figure head. He could by any time be substitited by the Secretary of the CP. The Secretary (with the Latin title "pontifex ab officiis" or other similar denominations) would be responsible for the management, the pontifex maximus would be a sybolic head for life. This would be a bit similar to the situation of the Queen of UK (symbolic figure head) and the Prime Minister of UK (actual leader). In this system, however, the pontifex maximus COULD take an active leadership if he wanted, but would NOT be forced to be an active manager. It basically would be the same as it is now, but now we do not have one single person whom we could call into account. If we had a "duty pontiff" (similar to the duty tribune system that the plebeian tribunes use in NR), this would change. Let's be Roman, and let's keep the title PM sacred and filled by the same person, and let's assign the busy work to entrusted
pontifices, every 3 or 6 months, with the possibility of re-election with or without limit.

2.3. The secretary of the College will be obliged to call the College into session every month (or 2nd month), and he will be called into account by the senate after his 6 months term ended whether he managed the College dutifully or not. No more obscurity as to who has to do what.

I hope, consul L. Sulla, that this action plan satisfies you and gives what you wanted.


Vale!
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
pontifex

Ave Lentulus,

It is my understanding that all the Pontiffs are essentially equal, and I
am glad you and hopefully more pontiffs will be responding.

Lentulus, I will be honest, this was not an issue I had on any agenda that
I wanted to focus on this year. That had changed when I started hearing
from more than one citizen that they are going to the Sertorian
organization to get their questions answered. That is unacceptable. They
should be coming to us.

Also, I want to express to you, personally, that I have not said anything
critical of you, your actions both past, present and future within the
religious sphere. I also very much appreciate your attempt to address the
concerns that have been brought to the open. I understand your
appreciation that you would have preferred to keep this private matter.
Normally I would have agreed with you except for the fact that I gave my
word that I would respond to this post. And, it was a golden opportunity
to address some concerns I heard. I take effort not to blame anyone I just
wanted the issue to be aired, recognized and addressed. Thank you Lentulus
for doing precisely that.

I have read your entire email and I would again like to thank you for your
effort in this regard. I think its WONDERFUL. I am glad the Camilia
program still exists. I think having the Secretary position is important -
it is no different than what we had in the Senate years ago when Senator
Audens was the point of contact. I do have a suggestion for you, at least
with regard to the applicants - can you have some kind of database to
ensure that they cannot go more than 2 weeks without a contact from the
Secretary or someone in the CP to make sure that each applicant is touched
and the feeling of being in a state of limbo goes away entirely?

Again, thank you very much for your time and effort.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Iulius Caesar censor sal.
 
This looks ok on paper - it is a start at least. However it all rests on the willingness of the pontifices to (a) pass it and (b) make it work. I'll be honest - I see Lentulus doing everything, or trying to. We can't rely on the willingness of only one of the CP. Addtionally this deals with some of the presing issues but not the core issue.
 
Motivation. 
 
Is the CP of Nova Roma as a collective body, motivated enough to be totally proactive and foward thinking in the rebuilding the religio romana? All we have heard for years is that it takes time, research is continuing, Rome wasn't built in a day etc etc. The last few years before those involbved in the coup left, the CP had become an instrument of politics. Those of us here in 2008 - 2010 well remember its role in trying to surpress dissent and twist religious theories into weapons of prosecution. Sadly that was the most productive that I can see the CP has EVER been.
 
No one is expecting the CP of Nova Roma to become evangalistic - or modern with  Facebook pages - no one with any grip on reality anyway - but we are no further foward in reality in re-creating the state religion than say a year after Nova Roma's founding. There is an institutional dislike of answering questions (is this because none of you actually know enough to engage in philisophical debate on religious issues - or you don't care enough?) and a general aloofness. This was continual regardless of what period and political faction held the CP in its thrall.
 
So, yes looks good on paper but if the consituent parts of the CP sniff privately at this, it will be the kiss of death. There will be no real movement. We need more than just applications processed. Everyone who wants to go on the CP thinks they can kickstart it it into life and yet it seems without fail the CP swallows each one of them into the treacle pool of inactivity. 
 
This is a very tiny sticking plaster being applied to a huge gaping wound. It won't cover all the wound and even then it will likely fall off into abeyance and be forgotten about. Why? Because it has happened to every single reformist idea.
 
I therefore have to say this isn't enough and before anyone says we have to start somehwre, no. We will just become a party to the great con that the CP is actually doing something. It isn't. It is stagnant. Dying - if not already dead. Lentulus' proposals are doomed to failure because the individual members of the CP must tolerate the current situation in order to allow it to continue, therefore that tells me they have collectively the wrong mindset to make this work. I suspect those on the CP are like a lot of those in the Senate - tired and worn out. Fair enough, it has been a tough few years for NR, but this situation is unacceptable.
 
I want to see the individual pontifices speak up here to this matter. only then will we guage if change is possible.
 
Optime valete.
 
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Role of the College of Pontiffs


Ave Lentulus,

It is my understanding that all the Pontiffs are essentially equal, and I
am glad you and hopefully more pontiffs will be responding.

Lentulus, I will be honest, this was not an issue I had on any agenda that
I wanted to focus on this year.  That had changed when I started hearing
from more than one citizen that they are going to the Sertorian
organization to get their questions answered.  That is unacceptable. They
should be coming to us.

Also, I want to express to you, personally, that I have not said anything
critical of you, your actions both past, present and future within the
religious sphere.  I also very much appreciate your attempt to address the
concerns that have been brought to the open.  I understand your
appreciation that you would have preferred to keep this private matter.
Normally I would have agreed with you except for the fact that I gave my
word that I would respond to this post.  And, it was a golden opportunity
to address some concerns I heard.  I take effort not to blame anyone I just
wanted the issue to be aired, recognized and addressed.  Thank you Lentulus
for doing precisely that.

I have read your entire email and I would again like to thank you for your
effort in this regard.  I think its WONDERFUL. I am glad the Camilia
program still exists.  I think having the Secretary position is important -
it is no different than what we had in the Senate years ago when Senator
Audens was the point of contact.  I do have a suggestion for you, at least
with regard to the applicants - can you have some kind of database to
ensure that they cannot go more than 2 weeks without a contact from the
Secretary or someone in the CP to make sure that each applicant is touched
and the feeling of being in a state of limbo goes away entirely?

Again, thank you very much for your time and effort.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Avita Sullae Consuli S.P.D.

I think this is a fantastic idea.  I would imagine it wouldn't be too difficult to do using the basic wiki formatting (but  I'm a beginner when it comes to that so I'm not sure).

As a newcomer to Nova Roma I find it frustrating and difficult to look up laws and know exactly how it relates to the Constitution (which I have read more than once).  I also like the idea that it would all be updated regularly - but this would require absolute diligence on the part of whoever would handle this task.

Vale.


________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2013 7:55 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Idea??



 
Avete Omnes,

I have an idea....but I am not sure how to do it or well even how to start
it. But maybe discussing it would be a way of fleshing it out..so bear
with me.

As ya'll know we have a Constitution...and a series of leges
that emanate from it. Like a Tree with branches.

What I would like to do is to create a copy of the Constitution that is
linked....hyperlinked to each law that relates to it....the links can pop
up and when they pop up they list the law that stems from that part of the
Constitution with a link that someone could go to that link as well.

Thusly if a lex emanates from two different sections of the Constitution,
it would, of course have two links.

Each Lex would have at least one link listed in the Constitution, since all
leges are inspired and thusly emanate from one or more parts of the
Constitution.

This document or Map if you will will only be updated with Current laws and
past laws would of course be removed.

How could something like this be done?

Would this be helpful?

Respectfully,

Sulla

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Avita Omnibus S.P.D.

I am ever so tentatively going to weigh in on this topic as I had meant to reply to Metellus' original question and never had time.  

I think that both of you are correct.  How? Regular, every day people (like me) who know some basics about the ancient religion are hungry for more.  In this regard the Consul is correct.  I don't even know what questions to ask in order to seek guidance.  Personally I am very fortunate to live with someone with a ton of knowledge in this area so I have an alternative source for information.  But not everyone has this. And even then I have ideas but I'm slightly afraid to say them ( I still have someone else check my greetings at the top of my messages to make sure I don't say something wrong).  People are uncomfortable going to someone first with their questions without being specifically asked to do so.  I think this is even more true in Nova Roma where so many of the people regarded as authorities can rightly be considered experts due to their love of whatever thing is their specialty.  It can be very intimidating when you are starting out
(and remains that way evidently for months and months!)

And that is the crux of the problem.  Of course the ancient Repulic's Pontifices did not get involved in the daily religious practices of the people.  The people learned these practices from family and friends.  It was as second nature to them as turning the TV on or ordering a pizza is to us today.  In a most traditional sense the position argued by the Pontifices is absolutely correct.  It isn't the business of the state how someone worships at home.   But help is needed.  There isn't a mother or father to turn to for guidance in these things.  How do we reconcile that?  As I mentioned I wouldn't even know where to start to ask these questions and I read a ton on this subject. 

In having these discussions with others previously I have said that what would be most helpful to me would be a sort guide to what daily worship might look like.  You could even include tons and tons of disclaimers about this not being the official position of Nova Roma. that a pontifex does not make decisions regarding individual practice, and that a person can adapt as needed. Or that this is simply one person's version of what they do and maybe have several different examples of each ritual.   I do know that I have found more information about how to be a religious person in the Roman sense not from any competitors of Nova Roma but from a pagan forum that has a board dedicated to discussing this subject.  

I bring this up to provide an "oustider's" viewpoint.  I understand the different arguments and think both positions are valid.   But, even with all the reading I have done, I still don't know what to do.  This is an area in which I wish the Pontifices would take a more active role. I am not criticizing in any way - I am simply trying to provide the perspective of someone who is trying to learn as much as I can.

Valete!


________________________________
From: "QFabiusMaxmi@..." <QFabiusMaxmi@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Role of the College of Pontiffs



 


In a message dated 4/30/2013 7:35:29 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
robert.woolwine@... writes:

Fabius, I am not trying to pick on you in particular, my first response was
a wide brush that can be applied to basically everyone in the CP, but in
your response I felt it so utterly insufficient and displaying such degree
of cognitive dissonance that I had to direct this post primarily at you.
Whereas, I do really like Caeca, I have met her....she is an amazing
person and I know she takes her vows seriously, but the response she gave
echoing Fabius is also a perfect example of the complacency that I
mentioned in my response. And, it is these very traits that are part of
the infected and permeated the body of citizens - which again Fabius
recognized in his own post. I have met both of you! I know the caliber of
knowledge that both of you have, and this response, with all due respect is
beneath both of you.

Consul.

I am confused by your reply. Since you were confused by mine, I believe
we both row the same boat...

If I understand you correctly you need statistics about involvement. I do
not have such statistics at hand. I can only report on what I has
observed. My last private request was the Confarreatio ritual that I translated
into English, and I sent it to him. I never heard back from him, but the
fact was he did contact me.

The College in the Republic determined the dates of festivals, dies fasti,
dies nefasti, which the last two are hard to reconcile in the modern age
of communication here in Nova Roma. Yet we did set them.

The other duties were to keep the records of events of the year, and then
store the information in the temple Saturn. In the Republic the Pontiffs
were not responsible for the private worship of the citizens. I don't
believe we should be either. I believe that citizens who ask for guidance in
the religion should be given the information, but what they do with it is up
to them. Other Pontiffs as you know have not been as flexible.
Hence my comment about the Catholic Church. While many of the current
institutions including the College of Cardinals are based on Roman
counterparts the mindset is completely different.

About the State Cult the duties are spelled out, and Cornelius Lentullus is
doing them. I wish our Flamen Martialis would come out of retirement but
its a lifetime appointment, and I hope eventually he rejoins us.
The Aediles continue to hold the Ludi.

Vesta is important to Roma and I think we are well served by our current
Virgo Maxima. Remember, she has no 4 assistants so she is on her own. Her
fortitude and determination is remarkable.

The college is functioning, we are fortunate to have a Pontifix Maximus who
is knowledgeable and who is a leader. We haven't issued many Decretia
but that does not mean we are not interested, It just means they are not
needed.

I hope this better answers your questions from my personal observances of
the College.

Q. Fabius Maximus

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/1/2013 5:04:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
gn_iulius_caesar@... writes:

I want to see the individual pontifices speak up here to this matter. only
then will we gauge if change is possible.

Change?
Sacedotes operate with the family paterfamilias-, He performs rites to
maintain good relations with the gods on behalf of his family, while Sacedos
perform the rites to keep good relations with the Gods on behalf of the
state.

So we have two religions intertwined.
The problem is with the Gens system dead, we have no extended families to
do rituals on the behalf of the Genius and so the basic framework of the
Roman religion is stunted. If the Gens were restored, the PFs of each Gens
would have to learn ritual and in turn they would pass on that knowledge to
their successors.
So. Do we see the Gens Potestas being restored anytime soon?

And I'm really puzzled by the Consul's comments.
It sounds like he believes that we the college need to show a syllabi of
works that we have all produced so the average Roman citizen can read them
and hey presto, we understand the Roman Cultus. To produce such works
would take years of study and translations. I'm amazed at the knowledge we
have accomplished in 14 years. But it is not like we have 300 years of ritual
to fall back on.

That's not the colleges' job. The pontifices had overall control of the
state religion.
In the monarchy we read in Livy they formed the religious council of the
king, assisting him in the duties of the state cult. During the republic
they were responsible for the organization of the state religion.

Originally the pontiffs were all patricians, but after 300 BC half had to
be plebeians.
Pontiffs determined the dates of festivals, of dies fasti, those days when
it was permitted to conduct legal business and of dies nefasti days when
it was not permitted to conduct legal business. They also kept a record of
the main events that occurred each year. Pontiffs were allowed to
participate in public affairs, i.e. as Senators. They were not formally responsible
for private worship.

As I said before the state cult is alive. We saw the ritual to Floria
yesterday. Vesta is honored. The Ludi are carried out. If the Senate has
religious concerns we have a knowledgeable PM to answer those questions.
That is what the colleges' job is.

We have no Temples to oversee. So we need no hierarchical staff headed by
sacerdos. And they were full-time paid officials.

Temples also had a range of servants such as gatekeepers for security,
slaves and menials for general maintenance, clerks, assistants for processions
and ceremonies, and in some cases guides and interpreters to look after
the Temple visitors. We do not over see them either.

I'm not trying to dumb here, just I feel that people seem to think that
unless we are meeting daily, and issuing papal bulls like Moravius did, (and
those who lived through those times remember how well that worked out) we
are doing nothing. And they would be wrong. But we are a State Cult. So
if the State insists on changing our mission statement to please the Gods,
so be it.

And that consul Caesar is my statement.

Q. Fabius Maximus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve consul,
 
I think that the CP time is not the political time.
As you have one year to make something the CP has the eternity.
What problem you want to be resolved?
 
The applications?
We have 4 applications  for the moment but 2 of them are problematic. We have to discuss about.
As you know the position of Flamen Quirinalis and Dialis, 2 applications, may be hold only by patricians and more confarreati, id est sons of parents married by confarreatio and themselves married by confarreatio.
Nova Roma knows its first generation. So the problem of the parents confarreati may be forgotten.
But we have to discuss about.
And it is a great problem not easy to be resolved in 8 days. :o)
Because the problem calls the status of patricians, of confarreati. May be a patrician not cultor deorum? If yes, why this status may be obligatory for some religious positions? It perhaps becomes a nonsense... etc. Many questions are to be resolved.
 
For the moment the CP makes its job.

If you want to make a comparison with another organization, please, give us some proof. I never heard some religious trembling from RPR and the CP is not a competitive business, its role is to be present for religious askings when the state needs, and we are.

Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. VI Nonas Maias MMDCCLXVI  aVc 

________________________________
De : Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... À : "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Mercredi 1 mai 2013 15h42
Objet : Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Role of the College of Pontiffs


Ave Antullus et Pontiffs et Omnes,

I believe the applicant was a female, but I can double check it to be
certain.

After double checking it is unclear, Dexter just mentioned something
regarding an elderly woman which I saw.

Back to the topic at hand.  We now have two citizens who verify through
their own experiences the institutional failing that currently exists and
one Pontiff who thinks that doing the bare minimum is sufficient, when it
clearly is not.

I am not an unreasonable person,I want the CP to recognize that the issue I
have brought up is relevant, is apparent and that they have a plan to fix
it.  If they do, WE ALL WIN.  Nova Roma WINS.

Pontiffs, It is May 1st.  Out of my respect for your office and your
mission I am going to give you one last shot to fix this situation to
remedy the institutional failings that have been pointed out on the ML.  I
will give you til May 8th to come up with a plan of action to fix this.  I
want you to take the initiative and do what is right for your mission, your
position and for Nova Roma.  May 8th.  This plan of action must be posted
publicly on the official Fora of Nova Roma.

If there is no plan presented by May 8th this matter will be discussed in
the Senate - and I will get involved more in this more than just sending
emails on the ML, that much I can assure you.

Pontiffs, Recognize the problem, address the problem, resolve the problem.
3 steps.  Thats all I have been asking.  No more excuses no more
rationalizations.

And, Fabius, I saw your email to me this morning.  YOU WILL NOT THREATEN ME
AT ALL.  The next time you threaten me will be your last.  You are not
speaking to Robert Woolwine, or Sulla but you are speaking to the Consul of
Nova Roma and the next time you threaten me will be your last in Nova Roma.


Respectfully,

Sulla

Caesar Fabio sal.

Yes change Fabi - a change from what appears to be zero activity and advancement in the goal of restoration of the religio publica. Don't start confusing the issue of the gens system with the religio publica. The CP as you have said need not concern itself with the private affairs of citizens. That is a crutch you have been hobbling around on for years, ever since 2005 when the old gens system was eradicated. The religio publica was hardly flourishing even then. 

What I want to know is how you propose to re-create a state religion when all you do is throw up road blocks and state that X condition or Y condition has to exist before Z can be done. It doesn't matter what it is, the answer always seems to be the same. Nothing can be done. Rubbish. Of course nothing can be done, because you aren't facilitating X or Y. You are just nesting in the CP list waiting...and waiting and waiting some more. For what?

The pax deorum died a long time ago. How do we know it has been re-established? What rituals were performed? Whats signs seen? What claim do we have that it exists now? As far as I can see the general assumption was made that the Gods would be grateful enough that Nova Roma had been created that automatically they would bestow their favour on us. Where is the evidence the pax deorum has been re-established? I can see no record of deliberations by the nascent CP that lends credibility to that claim. So until we can see that the pax deorum exists now, between the Gods and Nova Roma, we better start asking does it? If we can't show it does shouldn't we be working on that rather than making assumptions based on no evidence and just, as it seems, wishful thinking? 

Let us however assume the pax deorum does exist, though I see no sign of that fact having been demonstrated. Your attempt to blame the lack of a gens system is indicative of the fact that something more than sitting around needs to happen. So even if we had the gens system, what responsibility is the CP going to take for educating the heads of family in ritual? Some, all or none? We are starting from a blank slate Fabi, so the conditions that existed for the CP of antiquity do not exists for the CP of Nova Roma. That will require restoration. restoration requires work and involvement and research..where is it? The CP of Nova Roma can't even successful process candidates for the priesthood. you can't even remember when you had a meeting. You do what you normally do, make stuff up on the fly and try to pass it off as fact. 

The challenge is Fabi, how do we re-create a vibrant living state religion for an organization that owns no land, has no temples and has a scattered population (the active element small enough to fit in a city bus)? Just telling us what we don't have isn't a great step forward. I think we can figure that out without the CP. So instead of waiting Fabi, how about you determine how all those offices that can't be created because X or Y doesn't exist can be? Maybe before you do all that though we return to the fundamental question of the CP being able to demonstrate that the pax deorum actually exists. You se ei have always wondered how the immortal Gods whose worship once extended across the known world would be so satisfied with a blob like Nova Roma that the pax deorum would be re-established? It is incumbent to show some research Fabi, some facts, some analysis, otherwise what can we use that is credible to advance that claim? All you are doing is
the same you always have done, waiting, and waiting and waiting and telling us what you cannot do, and blaming someone or something else for that inability.

Enough. Unacceptable. You chaps need to start paying serious heed to restoration and recreation and working around the obvious lack of X or Y condition. Times have moved on since the removal of the Altar of Victory. If you want to rebirth the religio you need to provide new rituals and to do that you need first to prove we live under the pax deorum then consult the Gods on each proposed new change necessary to rebuild the religio publica. Currently there is fat chance of that as you are all to busy trying to find applications you misplaced months ago and forgetting when you all last met. Get your act together Fabius. Currently the CP is a repository on inactive goo all your feet are stuck in.

Optime vale.  



________________________________
From: "QFabiusMaxmi@..." <QFabiusMaxmi@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, May 1, 2013 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Role of the College of Pontiffs



 


In a message dated 5/1/2013 5:04:03 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
gn_iulius_caesar@... writes:

I want to see the individual pontifices speak up here to this matter. only
then will we gauge if change is possible.

Change?
Sacedotes operate with the family paterfamilias-, He performs rites to
maintain good relations with the gods on behalf of his family, while Sacedos
perform the rites to keep good relations with the Gods on behalf of the
state.

So we have two religions intertwined.
The problem is with the Gens system dead, we have no extended families to
do rituals on the behalf of the Genius and so the basic framework of the
Roman religion is stunted. If the Gens were restored, the PFs of each Gens
would have to learn ritual and in turn they would pass on that knowledge to
their successors.
So. Do we see the Gens Potestas being restored anytime soon?

And I'm really puzzled by the Consul's comments.
It sounds like he believes that we the college need to show a syllabi of
works that we have all produced so the average Roman citizen can read them
and hey presto, we understand the Roman Cultus. To produce such works
would take years of study and translations. I'm amazed at the knowledge we
have accomplished in 14 years. But it is not like we have 300 years of ritual
to fall back on.

That's not the colleges' job. The pontifices had overall control of the
state religion.
In the monarchy we read in Livy they formed the religious council of the
king, assisting him in the duties of the state cult. During the republic
they were responsible for the organization of the state religion.

Originally the pontiffs were all patricians, but after 300 BC half had to
be plebeians.
Pontiffs determined the dates of festivals, of dies fasti, those days when
it was permitted to conduct legal business and of dies nefasti days when
it was not permitted to conduct legal business. They also kept a record of
the main events that occurred each year. Pontiffs were allowed to
participate in public affairs, i.e. as Senators. They were not formally responsible
for private worship.

As I said before the state cult is alive. We saw the ritual to Floria
yesterday. Vesta is honored. The Ludi are carried out. If the Senate has
religious concerns we have a knowledgeable PM to answer those questions.
That is what the colleges' job is.

We have no Temples to oversee. So we need no hierarchical staff headed by
sacerdos. And they were full-time paid officials.

Temples also had a range of servants such as gatekeepers for security,
slaves and menials for general maintenance, clerks, assistants for processions
and ceremonies, and in some cases guides and interpreters to look after
the Temple visitors. We do not over see them either.

I'm not trying to dumb here, just I feel that people seem to think that
unless we are meeting daily, and issuing papal bulls like Moravius did, (and
those who lived through those times remember how well that worked out) we
are doing nothing. And they would be wrong. But we are a State Cult. So
if the State insists on changing our mission statement to please the Gods,
so be it.

And that consul Caesar is my statement.

Q. Fabius Maximus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes!
Hello everyone, and a special greeting to our new members.

I would like to welcome all new members of this group, who are also new citizens of the Republic of Nova Roma. We are very pleased to see you here, and we hope that you will enjoy your time among us. We hope you will be here for a long time, and that you will grow your interest and love of Rome the longer you stay.

So far we don't know very much about you, other than your email address, so please tell us your Roman name, where in the world you live, and what brings you to Rome. Was it a book, a film, a play, something you did at school or college, or something you hope to do in life?

Why not tell us what you want to learn by joining Nova Roma? What questions are burning away inside your mind that you would like answers to?

You will find lots of helpful and knowledgeable people here who are eager to guide you in your path for greater knowledge. We can help you find your way around our website and point out where to look for exactly the information you want.

So, don't be shy, we don't bite! Tell us a bit about yourself and let us all greet you as new citizens among friends.

Valete omnes!
Hope to see you soon!
Crispus

Ave Pontifex Maximus,

FIrst, thank you for your response. I appreciate your the time you have
taken to address this matter.

Secondly, Pontifex Maximus, have you read the thread? Did you read the
messages posted of newer citizens who confirmed everything I said? If so,
you know the problem I want to be addressed. If you have not, please take
the time to read the entire thread, and it will become apparent the issues
I would like to see resolved.

As for your information that you provided, again thank you. I have some
additional questions, please bear with me.

On all 4 of those applications - when were those 4 applicants contacted by
a member of the CP? Do those 2 applicants that have problems - are they
aware of the problems in their application?

Amice, the problems that I would like to be addressed can be solved in 1
day. I wrote a Senatus Consulta specifically addressing the issue I
spelled out in this thread in 40 minutes. I have sent a draft to a couple
of individuals for review right now. Would you like me to post the draft
here for your review?

Respectfully,

Sulla

Cn. Lentulus pontifex L. Sullae consuli s. d.

I have transformed my ideas to written pontifical decree proposals, and I'm sending this to the collegium pontificum, and I will request that a senior pontiff convenes the collegium pontificum for a discussion and vote on these two items.

Before the vote would start, I will contact the 4 individuals who applied for priesthood for a confirmation if they are still interested and if their chosen deity is the same.

My proposals below:




PROPOSAL I - Decretum pontificum de camillis et de novis sacerdotibus intruendis

I. Appointment of camilli

I.A. The collegium pontificum hereby appoints:

I.A.1. A. Apollonius Antullus as camillus Magnae Matris;
I.A.2. C. Veturia Sacerdos as camilla Fortunae Populi Novi Romani Primigeniae;
I.A.3. M. Aemilius Agricola as camillus Quirini;
I.A.4. C. Decius Laterensis as camillus Martis;

I.B. The camilli shall have the right to perform basic religious activity and rituals on behalf of the Nova Roman Republic, but any ritual they intend to offer may be performed only after revision and approval by at least one pontifex.

II. Training program

II.A. The camilli shall go through a priestly training program conducted and led by pontifex Cn. Cornelius Lentulus. Other citizens (not necessariliy priests) he appoints as assistant teachers may also be involved.

II.B. Other pontifices may observe but not interfer during the lessons, but notifications must be sent to the teacher privately; only the collegium pontificum as a body shall be entitled to compel the program leader to change or terminate parts or the entirety of his training program.

II.C. The training program shall have the following courses:

II.C.1. Introduction to the theory and reconstruction of Roman religion;
II.C.2. Basic reconstructive prayer composition;
II.C.3. The basics of performing Roman rituals.

II.D. The way of conducting these courses, their content, the requirements to pass the courses shall be at the discretion of the program leader until a more developed and detailed system is worked out.

II.E. The camilli shall pass examinations on all three subjects. If a camillus does not pass an examination, he has the right to repeat it three times, after which the collegium pontificum shall reconsider his inclusion among the camilli.

II.F. Those camilli who passed the examination successfully, may be appointed sacerdotes, with the simple title "sacerdos".

II.G. Any higher priesthood, such as flamonium, pontificatus etc., shall only be granted to them after they have spent an undefined period of time in service as sacredos of their deity, and have demonstrated they are able to perform correct rituals, advise others on sacred matters, available to work, responsive, dedicated and dutiful. This higher appointment is dependent on a new application of theirs to the specific higher priesthood.

III. Conclusion and further instructions

This decree shall be an instruction dealing with the current for priesthood applicants, but may be used as a legal basis to handle future cases, depending on the availability of pontifex Cn. Cornelius Letulus to teach new individuals.




PROPOSAL II - Decretum pontificum de pontifice ab officiis

I. Election of a secretary of the collegium pontificum

I.A. The collegium pontificum shall elect a secretary of the collegium pontificum, with the Latin title "pontifex ab officiis", among the pontifices to assist the pontifex maximus in his capacity as a president and spokesman of the collegium pontificum.

I.B. The term of office of the secretary of the collegium pontificum is for 6 months, and he can be re-elected to this position with no limit.

I.C. Any pontifex may declare himself a candidate to the secretary position, and the collegium pontificum is obliged to elect the next secretary among the candidates before the day when the term of office of the previous secretary expires, or within 30 days if the office of the secretary becomes vacant by resignation, death, or by the disappearing of the sitting secretary in concordance with a similar measure regarding magistrates of the lex Minucia Moravia eiuratione magistratum II.A., if the censores make a public statement that the secretary "is unreachable after an absence of 45 or more days."

I.D. The secretary of the collegium pontificum may be revoked from his position by a voting of the collegium pontificum for any reason and at any given time.

II. Division of tasks within the collegium pontificum

II.A. All pontifices, including the pontifex maximus, aside from his specific rights and duties, have the same powers and rights and are entitled to lead the collegium pontificum.

II.B. The pontifex maximus, besides the same powers and rights that all pontifices have, has some special rights, powers and duties assigned to him by leges, senatus consulta, by edicts and by pontifical decrees.

II.C. The pontifex ab officiis, secretary of the collegium pontificum, has exactly the same rights and powers than all pontifices, but in addition to these rights and powers, the pontifex ab officiis has the duty and responsibility to manage the collegium pontificum. The duties of the pontifex ab officiis are listed under IIIIIIIIIIIII

II.D. To advance the internal working of the collegium pontificum, specific rights, powers, tasks and duties, belonging to the collegium pontificum, may be assigned to any pontifex, including the pontifex ab officiis, by a decree of the collegium pontificum. In such cases, the appointed pontifex shall be responsible for the actions taken within that specific area.

II.E. To help the work of the pontifex maximus, specific rights, powers, tasks and duties, belonging to the pontifex maximus, may be assigned to any pontifex, including the pontifex ab officiis, by a public declaration of the pontifex maximus. In such cases, the appointed pontifex shall be responsible for the actions taken within that specific area.

III. Powers and rights of the secretary of the collegium pontificum

The secetery pontifex shall not have any more rights or powers than a regular pontifex, but the collegium pontificum or the pontifex maximus may authorize the pontifex ab officiis to act with special powers and perform tasks in specified cases. Apart of such authorizations, the secretary of the collegium pontificum has no more power or rights than a regular pontifex, but, while the other pontifices, including the pontifex maximus, aside from his specific rights and duties, have only the powers and rights to lead the collegium pontificum, the secretary has also the duty and responsibility to do it, and is required to manage the collegium, and may be called into account regarding the performance of these duties.

IV. Duties of the secretary of the collegium pontificum

The main duty of the secretary of the collegium pontificum is to ensure that important matters of religious business keep on going. While all pontifices are empowered to convene the collegium pontificum, and the pontifex maximus is the president and symbolic head of the collegium, it shall be the duty and responsibility of the pontifex ab officiis to manage all activities of the collegium pontificum.

IV.A. The pontifex ab officiis may not usurp any of the rights and powers that are specially assigned to the pontifex maximus by any lex, senatus consultum, edict or pontifical decree, unless the pontifex maximus explicitly delegates that specific duty or power to the pontifex ab officiis. Even if such a power or duty is delegated to the pontifex ab officiis, the pontifex maximus may revoke it at any time.

IV.B. If there is a conflict between the pontifex maximus and the pontifex ab officiis, it's always the pontifex maximus whose will and intention must prevail. The pontifex ab officiis acts and works always with the tacit or expressed approval of the pontifex maximus, and once the pontifex maximus expresses his dissent publicly against the action of the pontifex ab officiis, the pontifex ab officiis may act in that specific issue but only in his capacity as regular pontifex, and can not be called into account for having not acted on that specific issue.

IV.C. If the pontifex maximus is incapacitated or kept away from his sacred duties for any reason, or if he chooses not to attend his duties or assume his leading role, the pontifex ab officiis shall take care that all business and duties of the collegium pontificum are carried out. The secretary pontifex ab officiis of the collegium pontificum shall:

IV.C.1. be the contact person and the spokesman of the collegium pontificum, informing the collegium about any official requests, mandates, priesthood applications, any tasks to attend, and answering to other authorities or individuals in the name of the collegium pontificum, such communications made with a reaction time of no later than within 10 days;

IV.C.2. prepare and publish (except in case of a closed session) the agenda of the collegium pontificum, and convene the collegium at least once per month. If the collegium pontificum has not been convened for more than 30 days, and no other pontifex has publicly declared his intention to convene the collegium, the secretary of the collegium pontificum shall be obliged to call the collegium into session, and if there is no other proposal to vote on, the pontifex ab officiis shall submit to vote a decree on the reasons of inactivity of the collegium pontificum.

IV.D. If the pontifex paximus is active in his role of leading the collegium pontificum, the secretary pontifex ab officiis shall:

IV.D.1. serve and be permanently available as a primary assistant to the pontifex maximus, helping him in any areas or activities in which the pontifex maximus needs assistance;

IV.D.2. check the pontifex maximus whether he maintains and performs his specific duties satisfactorily, and whether he fills his role as president of the collegium acceptably, and, if there are deficiencies, to ensure that the pontifex maximus performs his specific duties and that he can manage the collegium pontificum, first, by reminding the pontifex maximus about the things to do, and by helping to prepare the agenda of the collegium, secondly, by intervening and making the necessary steps to perform the current tasks of the collegium pontificum if the pontifex maximus, for any reason, can not do it.

IV.E. The question whether a pontifex maximus is available-active, or not available-inactive, and whether the secretary pontifex shall act as an assistant to the pontifex maximus or as an active deputy leader, is decided from time to time by the reactions and communicatins of the pontifex maximus:

IV.E.1. Whenever the pontifex maximus declares publicly he is in charge of an issue, that specific issue shall be considered to be done actively by the pontifex maximus, and the secretary pontifex can not be called into account for that specific issue.

IV.E.2. Whenever and until the pontifex maximus is silent on a specific issue, he shall be supposed to be inactive and tacitly in agreement of whatever action the secretary pontifex is making.

Ave Lentulus,

Thank you for posting this.

I'm very pleased to see progress in this area, I am. Lentulus, I do not
want to see you stuck with shouldering more of the burden of the CP. the
Secretary position (I refer to the Secretary Pontifix ab officiis position
when I say secretary) should be s shared burden by the entire members of
the CP. It should be rotated so that each individual of the CP does their
time serving the needs of the population. Personally I think Fabius should
be the first appointee to field the questions of the populace, though I
admit I think that would be more of a punishment. I will support these,
if you can assure me that you will not stand for this. You already do alot
and someone else in the CP should bear this task for at least the first 6
months.

Section II C seems incomplete? Can you please double check that?

Again, thank you for being proactive and assisting me to find an amicable
solution.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus L. Sullae sal.

Yes, section II.C. had a minor mistake, I forgot to update the text where you read IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII, there was intended to be written "under section IV."

As for the person of the pontifex ab officiis, i.e. secretary pontiff, I did not indend to run for the position, so that is not an issue here. My first nominee for the post would be Q. Metellus, whom I would be glad to see as our first duty-pontiff.

Vale!


--- Gio 2/5/13, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The Role of the College of Pontiffs
A: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Data: Giovedì 2 maggio 2013, 16:35

Ave Lentulus,

Thank you for posting this.

I'm very pleased to see progress in this area, I am.  Lentulus, I do not
want to see you stuck with shouldering more of the burden of the CP.  the
Secretary position (I refer to the Secretary Pontifix ab officiis position
when I say secretary) should be s shared burden by the entire members of
the CP.  It should be rotated so that each individual of the CP does their
time serving the needs of the population.  Personally I think Fabius should
be the first appointee to field the questions of the populace, though I
admit I think that would be more of a punishment.   I will support these,
if you can assure me that you will not stand for this.  You already do alot
and someone else in the CP should bear this task for at least the first 6
months.

Section II C seems incomplete?  Can you please double check that?

Again, thank you for being proactive and assisting me to find an amicable
solution.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 7:06 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

Thank you for the clarification. Sounds great to me. I will be glad to see
Metellus as Secretary as well.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Thu, May 2, 2013 at 9:28 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave!

I am so going to try this too..is there a brand or maker that you
recommend? :)

As im on page 5 of the comitia procedures I can use a drink! ;)

Vale,

Sulla

Ave,

Thank you! I am a novice too. :) I am working with ugh I know his real
name, but uh...Laternsis (sp), I apologize for forgetting his roman
name...my mistake. He already started a new page for the constitution and
once im done I am going to start helping him identifying each law
origination so it can be hyperlinked to the appropriate section of the
Constitution. Though with the upcoming senate and comitia summons I think
my time is going to be booked solid until June. But, I wont forget to
follow through.

Personally I think the hardest part is starting it as it requires the most
effort, but then just remembering to update as needed. I agree with you
that it will require absolute diligence to clean out old links and update
new ones. We don't want a version that has some old laws and missing new
laws that would just create more confusion.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 7:56 PM, Tanya Bergstein <
appia_gratia_avita@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave, Sulla.

I tend to  favor the "Grappa Piave", (regional variant from my old stomping grounds). You may also consider the  alcohol content, which may vary from 35% to 60%, since, as the alcohol increases, the grape flavour may dry out.

I understand that there may also be a kosher version called "Grappa di Segal" but I never tried it myself.  

As for drinking Grappa (without coffee), it is normal served in shot glasses... 8-)

Vale optime,

ALH



________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2013 10:36 AM
Subject: Re: Coffee - Re: [Nova-Roma] The Role of the College of Pontiffs


Ave!

I am so going to try this too..is there a brand or maker that you
recommend? :)

As im on page 5 of the comitia procedures I can use a drink!  ;)

Vale,

Sulla

Ave!

Thank you for the suggestions, I will have to put that on the shopping
list! :) Oh if there is a kosher version I know just where to look. Thank
you very much.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Avete Omnes,

I have a question, as I have been working in the Tabularum getting the
source material for the laws so they can be hyperlinked....something struck
me and well, maybe someone here knows the answer.

I am lookaing at this law:
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_cursu_honorum_(Nova_Roma)

It states it is in force and active. If that is the case, uh did we have
candidates run for these offices that did not met these thresholds? I
remember a Cornelian ran for I think consul last year?

Thank you for your time.

Respectfully,

Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Decius Laterensis Consuli L. Cornelio Sullae omnibusque S.P.D.

With Sulla's help, I've actually made a fair bit of progress on this so far.  You can find it here.

www.novaroma.org/nr/Current_Constitution_(Annotated)

Please keep in mind that it's a work in progress, so not everything is in place yet.  Also, if anyone finds any errors, please let me know.

Di vos incolumes custiodiant!

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix;


I am trying to get ahold of Gaius Caesar. I have sent him an E-Mail
and have received no response. At last I knew, we were still friends,
so I am wondering if he has gone into a retreat to write his doctor's
thesis, on an extended trip to another exotic part of the world, ill,
or his computer is broken. Can you provide any information that would
assist me in this?

Respectfully;

Marcus Audens

Ave Amice,

He is around I will forward this to him and get to get into contact with
you.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Greetings to all citizens,

First, I thank those who took the time to respond to the matter for
their doing precisely that, as I placed my inquiry not simply to make
an inquiry, but because I believe it is a matter that needs great
discussion, both here and elsewhere. Despite my extreme disinclination
to post to this mailing list, I would like, in this message, to discuss
my inquiry, to clarify it by adding to it, and to provide some insight
to the nature of the inquiry, why I am making it, and what my
intentions are in making the inquiry.

To reference, let me restate the inquiry: "I am interested to know the
thoughts citizens have on the role of the College of Pontiffs. I am
not so much asking what it is: inasmuch as it is instituted by our
constitution, the law provides some answer there. I am asking more
what it should be." The responses which have been given indicate that,
by no fault but my own, this inquiry proves insufficient to provide
what information I was looking to gather. To wit, two additional
things should have been added to that, in order to fully address the
matter in my mind. These two things are: (generally) the means by
which it is to fulfill any role felt to be incumbent upon our College
of Pontiffs, and (more specifically) at whose initiation it is to
fulfill that role.

For some time, I have had concerns about the state of our public cult
and its future, being intimately, as others have rightly said,
intertwined in and an integral part of the state and future of our
nation. For some time, those concerns have continued to grow. For
some time, I have tried to come to a plan for the resolution of those
concerns, which resolution I have since determined, with the
outstanding assistance of an outstanding friend.

I began the work of developing a proposal for that resolution, when the
question occurred to me of the appropriate body to which the proposal
should first be directed. Not unexpectedly, two obvious choices came
to mind: our Senate, and our College of Pontiffs. This question, and
the resolution as I envision it, has led me to make the present
inquiries, for although in Ancient Rome there was no distinction
between the state cult and the state, while in Ancient Rome the one was
part and parcel of the other, yet in our nation, the one is legislated
into and continues to be perceived as a part of the state as vital to
the other as a single hair atop any human.

As I have considered the resolution I envision over the past couple
years, it further came to mind that this resolution I envision depends
most heavily on a number of factors that could be summarised as simply
"involvement", but a single word summary certainly is not, while
succinct, sufficient. While the bodies to be involved could be listed
here, we surely know them all; more important to the matter is not just
being involved, by voting and proposing and continuing onward.
Instead, there is a certain level of what may be called "active"
involvement, because one of the things involved, as is clear to me
based on the responses made, is a change in perspective of how the
state cult, and therefore the state, may operate.

Therefore, I make my inquiries for several reasons. In total, however,
this is all being done toward one goal: rectification. I make my
inquiries with both eyes toward rectifying what I see as an issue, and
which the responses presently posted confirm is an issue. The
responses presently made, though, also demonstrate clear differences on
the nature of the issue, which I next discuss.

Signed,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus

--
In accordance with the edict governing posts in this forum
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/89259), especially its
Articles 5 and 6, I have tried to ensure that this post is entirely in
English, with the exception of the signing of the name of the poster,
which necessarily is in Latin, as the same edict requires.

Greetings again to all citizens,

To respond to my original inquiry, our College of Pontiffs should be a
body of individuals who are experts on matters of the state cult of our
nation and of Ancient Rome -- to wit, the relations between our nation
and the gods -- which advises our Senate, our magistrates, and,
ultimately, the People on such matters. This, however, and gives a
very incomplete view. As amended to include consideration of the
additional inquiry I made, I would say that it should be the role of
our College of Pontiffs to be a body of experts on matters of the state
cult of our nation, which advises our Senate, our magistrates, and the
People, as well as individual citizens, on matters referred to it in
relation to the state cult of our nation, in light and under the model
of Ancient Rome.

In overwhelming part, however, this runs very contrary to the views
expressed (except, perhaps, that of Q Fabius Maximus) on the role our
College of Pontiffs should play. I note that, with the stated possible
exception, the desire here is for our College of Pontiffs to take a
leading role in our state cult. However, a handful of hours before I
originally began this response, I was discussing this all, and stated a
conclusion I have drawn over the many years I have been a citizen.
This conclusion is of two parts.

In the first part, there is what I have written at least twice over the
years, and said otherwise many, many more times: neither is our College
of Pontiffs giving information, nor are the other bodies of the state
asking for information. This is not said as a line from cause to
effect, or effect to cause: they are two separate issues. That is, to
be explicit, neither are being proactive. This, I believe, comes from
the other conclusion I see. While there is an expectation of guidance
from our College of Pontiffs, which is not unreasonable, this is only
part of the situation.

I want to thank Ap Gratia for her post, which I use to put particular
light on things now, where she says, in part, "People are uncomfortable
going to someone first ...". (To this, though, I have to say: while
some are uncomfortable, others may simply be unwilling.) Thus, my
other conclusion: it is expected that our College of Pontiffs will not
only provide guidance on all matters of cult on all levels, but even
more especially, and thoroughly left unstated, that questions would not
need to be asked to acquire that guidance. This has been shown time
and time again, in the various criticisms of the amount of information
published by our College of Pontiffs and its members. While I wish not
to be unduly critical, surely there is nothing reasonable in an
expectation that information need not be sought to be obtained.

As I address my next point, I want to again reiterate these two facts:
my focus throughout this is rectification, and it is my firm desire to
not be unduly critical. I am not unaware of the sensitive nature of
the topic, nor personal sentiments between individuals; neither,
though, merit avoiding discussion, and both require that parties ensure
proper focus in handling matters.

There is, what has been said many times in the past, by myself and
numerous others, scholars and amateurs alike, the fact that the state
cult was an inseperable, indistinguishable part of the state. Yet this
leaves a crucial piece unsaid. Care for the state cult -- care for the
relationship between the state and the gods -- was not the sole
province of any one part of the state. It was the responsibility of
the state, as a complete whole, and of every part thereof, to ensure
that that relationship was maintained. To this end was involved, in
Ancient Rome, the Senate. To this end, magistrates were involved. To
this end, the People were also involved. Lest there be any doubt on
the matter, there are no shortage of examples of the Senate of Ancient
Rome requesting that matters be referred to the College of Pontiffs,
and there exist occasions on which it was advised that the People
supplicate the gods. In general, even, it could be said that the
standard order of things was that a magistrate asked the Senate for its
advice which, desiring the opinion of experts, advised that the matter
be referred to one of the Sacred Colleges, on whose advice the Senate
then issued its advice to the requesting magistrate, who then proceeded
accordingly. Lest there be any doubt on the matter, in no small part
at all, offerings, sacrifices, and rituals were performed by
magistrates, the chosen representatives of the People, with the
assistance of members of the College of Pontiffs, or the College of
Augurs, or such experts as were appropriate. Yet we have organised our
nation in total abandonment of this, instead making it the
responsibility of our Sacred Colleges -- and our Sacred Colleges alone
-- to care for the state cult, which I say from personal experience.
We have organised ourselves to such an extent that, when I propsed the
consideration that perhaps it ought not be our College of Pontiffs that
performs a ritual, but that perhaps a magistrate should do so, this was
unpleasantly received.

I also must address the matter of private worship. For a lot of
obvious reasons, this is an even more sensitive topic, but equally, it
obviously must not go unaddressed. The nature of private worship as
viewed in Roman practise makes it necessarily difficult to provide many
of the answers sought. Indeed, it is rightly noted that Roman practise
is not like many religions practised in our time: the concept of
religion as is widely held in the present includes more aspects than
what could to any extent be called Roman religion. The former includes
not just beliefs on the divine and the relationship of humanity with
it, but also beliefs on the proper way to live and conduct life, which
the Romans would have identified as philosophy. I make this
distinction only to give proper perspective, because there have been
requests in the past for opinions from our College of Pontiffs on
things that I will summarise as "spirituality", which things would, to
a Roman, be determined by the philosophy to which a given individual
subscribed. Barring the adoption of a state philosophy, this makes it
not simply outside the competence of our College of Pontiffs to
formally answer, it is outright impossible to do so save referring it
back to the philosophy of the individual.

None of this is to say that the members of our College of Pontiffs
should not be willing to assist individuals in their private worship:
indeed they should. But what of this? I come back to something said
by a dear friend on answering precisely those questions, in stating
that it is no different than when a child asks, for example, why two
plus two equals four: it is the responsibility of any person aware of
the question and who knows the answer to present two fingers, then two
more, then count them for the child. Again, with intent to not be
unduly critical, and certainly intending not to say others are entirely
ignorant, but things have been as though only the members of our Sacred
Colleges, and our College of Pontiffs especially, have any knowledge on
religion, and that all others have not even the most miniscule shred.
Surely that can not be true!

To that point, then, I consider the members of our College of Pontiffs
have a responsibility to answer questions on private worship, but not
by virtue of being a member of that body; rather, by virtue of being
knowledgable on the matter they have the responsibility, and by which,
optimally, they were chosen to be members of that body. Others,
however, know the material just as well.

I can not but be inclined to believe that this expectation stems from
the development ane expectations of modern religion, and the vast
difference between it and Roman practise. I also can not but be
inclined to believe that, as does not escape recent memory, the
frequent throwing about of titles and offices to lend credit to the
beliefs and views one wants to impart on others and/or to discredit the
same of others has not helped to reinforce the error, and I want to at
least acknowledge as much, lest it go overlooked. (To that, I can
proudly say that the greater part of my answers, especially over the
past several months, have been issued not by virtue of having been a
pontiff at the time, but simply as a person who knows the material, for
which reason I have left, and continue to leave, titles out of such
answers.)

Regarding the applications before our College of Pontiffs, of which I
am aware of only three (and remain puzzled on whose this fourth is), I
note two things: first, that I have mentioned the matter at least three
times this year in the chamber of that body, each time with notably
little response, if any; and second, as also noted in the chamber of
that body, it was and remains my desire to see the applicants
interviewed publicly, and to allow citizens to inquire of the
applicants as well, before decision is made on them. While I
requested, at the beginning of this year, the use of a mailing list for
precisely that purpose, which could also serve to allow, for example,
the Senate to hold hearings as it may need (as, for example, when its
members had questions while deliberating on the use of
votingplace.net), that request was expressly denied.

But now, I want to address a final matter, in return to the inquiries I
pose, and more specifically, progress from them. As I said previously,
my eyes are directed toward rectification, and continue to remain so.
As I also said, my intention is to not lay undue criticism, and to
that, I hope that what criticisms I lay remain firmly and solely
constructive.


Signed,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus

--
In accordance with the edict governing posts in this forum
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/89259), especially its
Articles 5 and 6, I have tried to ensure that this post is entirely in
English, with the exception of the signing of the name of the poster,
which necessarily is in Latin, as the same edict requires.

Greetings again to all citizens,

To this point, I have not addressed a particular message in this
thread, which came from Senator Cn Iulius Caesar. I wish to address a
number of the things noted in that message now, as they relate directly
to the origin of the inquiries I make.

Specifically, Senator Caesar criticises our College of Pontiffs for its
inactivity, for the fact that, ostensibly, the public cult is not
flourishing, and that, ostensibly, the relationship between our nation
and the gods can not be seen to exist, let alone be in good standing.
It is specifically this third which is at the heart of the concerns
that have developed in me over the years, and for which reason I make
my inquiries.

There are several things which were on my mind nearly a month ago when
my original inquiry was posted, and what I state here is as best I can
recall them. Among my concerns then was the fact that, as far as can
be seen, the only relationships with the gods that our nation has
created are with Ceres, by the Arminian law requiring that the games be
held in her honour, and a very generic relationship (though presumably
with Iuppiter), in the various laws that require the taking of auspices.

Another primary concern at the time was the issue of inheritance.
Namely, our nation styles itself as the ancestor of Ancient Rome, but I
can not glean anything of the acts taken by our nation to affect that
in relation to the gods. That is to say, I do not see anything that we
have done to tell the gods as much. This leads to another set of
concerns. First, that the gods accept our nation as that ancestor.
Second, and more difficult to handle, is exactly what that inheritance
means. Let me address this latter concern in more detail.

Much though I feel analogy to businesses is overused, I find it very
appropriate here; our situation is not much different than that of a
successor company. The questions which come to my mind are several,
but first I feel that one thing must be clearly defined for
understanding. When I use this phrase "state cult", what is meant is
the agreement -- pact, covenant, or contract, if you will -- between
the state and the gods, the state being our nation. Additionally, I
use the singular here, but it is collective: it is not simply one
agreement, but a number of agreements with various deities and groups
of deities, under which the state agrees to do certain things (that is,
give sacrifices, make offerings, hold games, and so on) for or in the
honour of such deities or groups thereof, in return for their good-will
toward it.

The first question which came to my mind is this: Do we wish to take on
all the contracts of our predecessor in whole, or only some of them?
Additionally: Do we take those contracts as they were, or do we
negotiate our own contracts? If we take only some of them, or
negotiate new contracts, do we do so with all the gods with whom our
predecessor had contracts? Last, but not of least importance: How do
we do all this?

These were just a number of the questions which came to mind at that
time. I know there were more, and I certainly hope there will be
others. But at any rate, the item that remains is the instatement, or
restoration, of our state cult. That is the ultimate matter.

As I considered it, the resolution of my concerns comes in the form of
something our ancestors regularly did, and which we can prepare now.
What I believe would instate, if that is the path, or restore, if
chosen, I can only translate as a cleansing of our nation, of any ills
felt on either side between our nation and the gods, and by that, a
restart of our state cult. The latter concept -- cleansing -- was done
by our ancestors in five year cycles, along with the registration of
citizens, determination of taxes due, registration of soldiers, and so
on (some will in fact know the proper name for this, which is not
permitted to be named on this list without translation).

There is no doubt that our nation has conducted itself often without
the consent, or even consultation, of the gods; the abolition of the
Fifteen Keepers of the Sacred Books, and the Seven for the supervision
of Feasts are but two examples. Herein lies the concern which first
started the avalanche of concerns. Some will recall that I refused to
accept a seat in the College of Pontiffs until I had been properly
inaugurated, and have, over the years, called for the continued
inauguration of new members of that body. I believe that this remains
a necessary aspect of building or restoring any relationship we are to
have with the gods: ensuring their consent. In as much as that is
concerned, I believe that inauguration (or re-inauguration, as the case
may be) should be a requirement for all members of what were
historically the Four Sacred Colleges. I believe that there needs to
be significant change in the way we organise ourselves, in the way we
organise our nation, so that care for the state cult is where it was in
Ancient Rome and ought to be now: a matter for all bodies of our
nation. Naturally enough, I finally believe that there must be a great
change in the way we view our state cult, and the bodies public of our
nation, and the role our state cult is to play in our state. Only in
this last can the change we need truly take place.

I do not pretend that these missives answer everything, or lay any
specific proposal. They certainly are not intended to do so: as I note
at the start of all this, my inquiries are the beginning of my
developing a proposal. But I sincerely hope that I have explained my
inquiries clearly and sufficiently, that I have demonstrated my
intentions toward helping our nation, and that I have brought some to
consider matters which they did not previosuly.

Again, which I can not strongly enough impart, my intentions are to not
unduly criticise anyone or anything, and I make my inquiries and have
given my responses with a desire solely toward rectification and
correction. I hope that my words, however many, are taken as such.

Signed,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus

--
In accordance with the edict governing posts in this forum
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/89259), especially its
Articles 5 and 6, I have tried to ensure that this post is entirely in
English, with the exception of the signing of the name of the poster,
which necessarily is in Latin, as the same edict requires.

FYI

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus magister aranearius Quiritibus SPD

This invitation was sent to the webmaster of Nova Roma to be published, and in my view it is worth publishing. The proconsul of the Canadae and our magistrates shall see to it that it is considered duly.
Valete!Lentulus
-------------------------------------------------------------
FWD MESSAGE FOLLOWS BELOW

Hello!
My
name is Christina Reid and I am the collections manager at the MSA
Museum Society at historic Trethewey House in Abbotsford, BC. We host an
event here at the house every June 15th where we invite a
variety of living history groups to participate. The event, which is
sponsored by the local Optimist club, is set up as an opportunity for
these groups to showcase themselves here in the Fraser Valley. The focus
targeted audience is students from k-12, but we get visitors from all
walks of life for this event. This year, the event runs from noon to 4
on Saturday, June 15th, and we are wondering if this I an
event that you might be interested in participating in. Trethewey House
is located in Mill Lake park, and we have a large amount of outdoor
space that can be used for demos, tents etc. and, of course, Trethewey
House is available for indoor activities. Signed up so far this year are
The Reik Felag Norse Culture Recreation Society, the Langley Medieval
dancers and a number of smaller organizations as well as some groups
from other museums and Parks Canada.
Please let me know of you are interested (despite the short notice!) in participating or I you have any questions whatsoever.

Kind regards,
Christina  Christina ReidCollections ManagerMSA Museum Society2313 Ware StreetAbbotsford BC V2S 3C6phone: 604 853 0313fax: 604 853 0326Collectionsmanager@... 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Lentulus legatus pro praetore Pannoniae: Quiritibus: sal.



I am glad to announce the 6th Nova Roman Floralia Carnival in Pannonia
(Hungary), in Budapest, ancient city of Aquincum.



DATE of the event: 11-12 May.



All Nova Romans are invited, accommodation will be free, provided at the homes of Pannonian Nova Romans. Meal will be free! ATTENTION: only the first 5 citizens will be given free accommodation who register themselves at my email address.



Please send me a *private note* if you are interested!



The event is planned to be international, it depends on your
participation from other provinces.



The Floralia of Aquincum is a great carnival organized by the Aquincum
Museum, the 24th time this time, with which the Pannonian province of
Nova Roma collaborates in organizing the programs. This is the 6th time
when Nova Roma is a co-organizer of the event.



There will be various activities and programs, spectacles, gladiators,
legions, civilians, religious celebrations, Roman fashion show, plays,
and much more.


- Reports and photos of last years Floralia:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Floralia_Aquincensia_Nova_Romana


- Photos about Floralia (2009) in Aquincum:



http://floralia2009 .ap-claudia- alba.fotoalbum. hu/



- You can watch some reports about last years' Aquincum Floralia Carnival, made by Hungarian televisions:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrojdQDpMCo&feature=related





- Here you can see some photos about the Museum area and ruins of the historical Aquincum where the event takes place:



http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=b5YNmL- qXRc&feature= related



- Here is the website of the Aquincum Museum (featuring the flag of Nova Roma) about the program:



http://www.aquincum.hu/programajanlo/floralia-roman-spring-festival-in-aquincum



ATTENTION:



Please *send me* a *private* note if you are interested.



VALETE!



CN CORNELIVS LENTVLVS

LEGATVS PRO PRAETORE PANNONIAE
















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Metellus et Omnes,

I have one question. What happened to "Your friendly neighborhood
pontiff?" That was your motto on the Religio Romana list right? Ok that's
two questions.

I have lots more to say about this...but seriously, inquring minds would
like to know. Considering everything I have asked for, every matter that
has been sent in the thread by our citizens would fall under that paradigm
of services provided for by your friendly neighrbood pontiff, would it not?
(Ok 3 questions). Or was that motto just a bunch of words more
feelgoodism with no substance beyond the 5 seconds it took to actually
write up that motto? (4 questions)

This is for everyone on the list. Is it me or do the members in the CP
seem to want to blame everyone else than actually deal with the problem
presented to them? I honestly want to know, from everyone. Email me
publicly or privately.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:33 AM, Q Caecilius Metellus <
q.caecilius.metellus@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

I have read all 3 long...LONG posts.

First, I want to thank you for your time in responding. I can see you put
alot of effort in your responses.

In reading the posts you do not seem to address the 2 issues brought up in
the thread. Not once, that I can recall did you address the problem
presented. You made excuses, justifications, and rationalizations. I read
that. You complimented one of the thread posters, but ignored the two
citizens who have specifically taken the time and effort to seek religious
offices.

Frankly, in each of the responses you made, you did not address the
problems nor state in any way shape or form that you would help fix the CP
become a more responsive body to the Needs of the Citizens and thusly,
by extension the needs of the state.

Lentulus is the only one who has taken the time to recognize the problem,
address the problem and try to take steps to resolve the problem.

What do we need to do? Do we need to dissolve the CP and just tell
everyone in Nova Roma that if they have religious questions and concerns
that they should go to the Sertorian Organization to get their answers? If
the answer is Yes, then why are you guys pontiffs in the first place? If
no, then what concrete steps are you guys going to do to be more responsive
to the needs of the community? Yes or No, there is no other answer.

Metellus you told me to cool my jets while you took the time to respond. I
did. I waited. Frankly your response was inadequate. Exhuastive but
inadequate. So, now as Consul of Nova Roma when I convene the Senate you
gentlemen of the CP have left me with no choice but to have the Senate
discuss this matter and compel the CP to address the issues. I want the
Senate to focus on solutions and NOT placing blame. No one has been blamed
to date. And, I want to keep it that way. But making excuses and
rationalizations to justify the way things have always been done is
unacceptable. Problems have been voiced and now those problems need to be
addressed and remedied.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma


On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:32 AM, Q Caecilius Metellus <
q.caecilius.metellus@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete

http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/03/18037962-ancient-roman-cemetery-unearthed-remains-of-13-found?lite&lite=obnetwork
Valete
Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

In order for the sake of brevity I am responding in just one post instead
of many. This may get a bit long apologies given in advance. Pontifex
Metellus gave us quite a bit to read today. In a nutshell it was riveting.
Now lets *attempt* to delve further.

I must admit I feel slightly uneasy responding to this thread for I am not
a practitioner of the Cultus Deorum. So does this apply to me and my ilk?
Yes and No. On a private front certainly not, as a civis of Nova Roma yes
to an extent. As a voting member within the Senate of Nova Roma, most
definitely yes. Does part of me want to point out that this situation
would not occur within my own faith without immediate rectification? Yes.
Will it really benefit the current discussion? Most likely not so I will
refrain.


It seems good citizens we have a problem....

Now the beginning of this tempest began with Pontifex Metellus whose
intentions were most noble in his view. When he posted his query "The Role
of our College of Pontiffs" he was trying to conduct some form of a test.
At least that is what I gathered from Metellus' lengthy posts today. That
it was a test, an attempt to fish put some "feelers" out to the masses.
On how the populace felt regarding what roles the College of Pontiffs
should play in Nova Roma or in their view what roles the CP does play
currently. (Pick one)

Somehow I believe Metellus' test failed.. He received a much more
different response one unexpected. He received the response of the Consul,
and a disgruntled Consul at that. The Consul around this same time had
been contacted privately by citizens who had waiting for over a year to
hear back from the CP regarding the status of their applications so forth
and so on. I believe this was a last ditch effort on behalf of the
citizens who contacted Sulla for something to get done. I do not believe
this to be a "Political Diversion" or something on a "To-Do checklist" as
others have stated on another list.

Sulla is the type person if you ask for help, he will do what he can to
help. This for once is actually just coincidentally enough a coincidence.
It sounds odd just thinking about it.

Now Metellus I thank you for responding these posts one can tell you put a
lot of effort into them. From what I read (And I read all three twice btw)
you explained your reason why you originally posted the question. However I
could find nothing in response to the questions the Consul asked. Not all
are as loquacious as you are Metellus, I saw a great example of word play
but no explanation. Perhaps a bit of dissection? Especially as to how you
were denied to publicly interview applicants for Sacredotal positions. Did
anyone stop you from creating a list that the would be under the
adminstering hands of the CP solely? I thought the CP was a Collegia of
Equals, I can't picture you above of all others being afraid of what the
current Pontifex Maximus may think or say.

I'm not trying to cast direct blame on you Metellus or your Pontifical
colleagues. Just take this as an outsiders perspective if you will.. Some
food for the thought..

There is a problem ...People have been waiting over a year for a response.
They don't feel comfortable coming to the CP for Religious advice, they
feel ignored. What steps are going to be taken to fix said reputation? Or
is the College of Pontiffs simply just an advisory body where maybe once a
year you may get an answer on something after waiting for an even longer
time for a response? The ball is in the court of the College Pontiffs..

If you and your colleagues could explain this once and for all.. Would
give some great perspective.

Again I apologize for the long-windedness of my post..

Valete bene et bonam noctem,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia






--
"De mortuis nil nisi bonum"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

To the Consul of our nation, Greetings.

You have asked for a number of things. My response is not terribly
complicated. You and I, and others, agree that the state is in pain.
But anything beyond this is where we seem to differ.

In the requests you have made, and in the proposal given by one pontiff,
I see what I can only call a prescription for pain management; perhaps
that is what is desired. In the path that I intend to take, the
desire is to investigate, determine, and resolve what is causing the
pain, and minimise its chances of return.

While I acknowledge the issue you state as an issue, it seems to me a
secondary issue: a symptom of a greater underlying problem. My aim is
to resolve that greater underlying problem. Simply, I want the pain
not to return in the future.

Signed,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus

--
In accordance with the edict governing posts in this forum
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/89259), especially its
Articles 5 and 6, I have tried to ensure that this post is entirely in
English, with the exception of the signing of the name of the poster,
which necessarily is in Latin, as the same edict requires.

Salvete omnes!

I think this post really hits the nail on the head, and I appreciate its direct and plain-spoken character. I feel that sometimes discussion on this forum can veer into bizarre and irrelevant rhetorical flourishes, and it's nice to be called back to the real problem at hand.

Thanks for that.

- A. Apollonius Antullus

Ave,

In this, more simplified explanation, I actually agree with you, totally, I
think we used to have these discussions years ago. I agree that my Senatus
Consula, which is drafted and ready to go, as well as Lentulus's draft
proposals are, as you put it, pain management that will not cure the major
disorder that must be treated. Agreed. But, since the only people in the
CP capable of saying you know, we have a disease that must treated does not
prevent a physician to start dispensing meds to deal with
the immediate pain while researching and finding a cure for the disease
that is raging over the body. Do you agree with that summation as well?

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 1:45 AM, Q Caecilius Metellus <
q.caecilius.metellus@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Paulinus.
 
Thank you.  The article is fascinating.
 
Vale,
 
Petrus Augustinus


________________________________
From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@... To: "nova-roma@yahoogroups.com" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 10:48 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Roman cemetery found

 

Salvete

http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/03/18037962-ancient-roman-cemetery-unearthed-remains-of-13-found?lite&lite=obnetwork
Valete
Paulinus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Fabio Maximo sal.

I am posting this to you here in response to your thread on the CP list - the post where you think my comments and Sulla's are just about politics. They are not. They are about what one part of Nova Roma is or isn't doing.
 
It doesn't require one to be a religious expert to recognize that the CP appears to have its feet nailed to the floor as the entire structure is inexorably drawn into the black hole of irrelevance. Metellus' concerns regarding the assumption that we inherited the pax deorum are valid. How do we know we did? If we are to look at our history over the last few years it isn't a convincing bag of evidence. Unless some basic questions are addressed, then the role of the CP will be diminished further.

Maybe it is time the CP went back to basics and started with ensuring we do have a re-established or even new pax deorum? Simply saying "we do" is not enough. Any attempt to "woolly" up these issues up by essentially looking down your nose at genuine issues and concerns and dismissing them as a "check mark" isn't going to work anymore. Obfuscation and mumbling about how its very complex won't cut it either. Is there evidence that we successful consulted the Gods over the issue of NR's claim to be the inheritors of the pax deorum? Yes or no? Where is the evidence if yes? Those are simple questions which are easily reduced to a check mark if you wish but valid regardless. What I am hearing instead is essentially "well, I am sure we must have done" or "its a very complicated business" or "we were all over the map (code for know one knows what the hell they are doing?)" or "{insert latest excuse}".

The "government" is not growling, people are concerned.  This has been going on for years, and years. People have voiced their concerns for years and years, and Sulla and I both hoped you would all get ya poop in a group and start a co-ordinated plan for movement forward. Defending those embalmed is a tough job lad. Because you did not demonstrate activity or even a willingness to recognize valid and real concerns we all ended up with Piscinus and his twisted version of the religio. Why did he appeal? Well frankly many citizens at the time felt he spelled momentum as opposed to the mummified decaying corpses seated in the CP, where the most enervating sound of activity that occurred year to year was the faint "plink" as another body part detached and fell on the floor. It was thanks in part to YOU Fabi and others in the CP over the years that have done precisely squat that we were "gifted" with Piscinus. Some have tried hard, Lentulus, Metellus,
but collectively one could imagine opening the door to the CP and being assailed by the whiff of gangrene and death.

Sulla and I are ringing the alarm bell. Time to heed it Fabi because this CANNOT be allowed to continue.   

Optime vale. 


From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Role of Our College of Pontiffs -- Third (and Final) Part


Ave Metellus et Omnes,

I have one question.  What happened to "Your friendly neighborhood
pontiff?"  That was your motto on the Religio Romana list right?  Ok that's
two questions.

I have lots more to say about this...but seriously, inquring minds would
like to know.  Considering everything I have asked for, every matter that
has been sent in the thread by our citizens would fall under that paradigm
of services provided for by your friendly neighrbood pontiff, would it not?
(Ok 3 questions).  Or was that motto just a bunch of words more
feelgoodism with no substance beyond the 5 seconds it took to actually
write up that motto? (4 questions)

This is for everyone on the list.  Is it me or do the members in the CP
seem to want to blame everyone else than actually deal with the problem
presented to them?  I honestly want to know, from everyone.  Email me
publicly or privately.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:33 AM, Q Caecilius Metellus <
q.caecilius.metellus@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Omnes,

I wanted this to be posted on the CP list in direct response to Fabius's
post. I even asked to have this posted on that list. But, after most of
the day has passed I have waited long enough. So, I am going to piggy back
Caesar's post as he responded to the same post I want to. Please bear
with this post:

Respectfully,

Sulla
___________BEGIN RESPONSE_________
Ave Pontiffs and Vestal Caeca

As most of you know I read the CP list. Rarely do I feel compelled to make
a response to a post but after reading Fabius's missive I am compelled.

While my response is primarily directed at him - but is applicable to
everyone here. (in the CP)

First, Fabius, everything is political. As it has been noted the state is
intertwined with the religion so much that they are inseparable. Thank you
for pointing the obvious.

Secondly, Fabius, have you forgotten all of our conversations over the past
14 years when we complained about how slow the CP does what it does? How
we complained over the lack of leadership when Pontifex Maximus Marcus
Cassius was when he headed the CP? Do you rmember when we both said the
leadership on the CP should be active and met the needs of the citizenry
Why have you gone off the rails? You need to become more consistent
Fabius, or else your character suffers! When did you become Modianus?


I am being consistent.
I have to say, given the leadership that is being shown in the CP currently
vs the Cassian Pontificate - Cassius wins hands down. There was more
activity and certainly more responiveness compared to the present
administration. I long for the days when Marcus Cassius was Pontifex
Maximus of Nova Roma.

I long for the days of the Cassian Pontificate when the CP was summoned
about quarterly.
I long for the days of the Cassian Pontificate when the CP filled most if
not all of the Sacerdos positions and certainly more than are filled at
present
I long for the days of the Cassian Pontificate when the CP filled some of
the Flamen positions.
I long for the days of the Cassian Pontificate when the CP actually
responded to citizens and complaints revolved around Cassius wanting a big
huge tent of religion that basically represented the rainbow of colors and
beliefs.
Oh how I long for the days of Cassius as Pontifex Maximus.


I still want those very same things YOU and I discussed from the time of
Cassius Pontifiex Maximus. I am very disappointed that you have changed,
very disappointed in you. I want Fabius back and NOT Modianus.

I will make it my mission for the rest of my consulship to dog the CP into
taking measures to care about the community as much as you guys supposedly
say you care about the Gods. Because the Contract with the gods have two
parties. The Gods and the State. What is the state? The State is the
Community of people. Therefore by ignoring the Community you are not
keeping, in my opinion, up with the Contract that the State has with the
Gods, for if you were, you would take as much interest with the community
as you do with the Gods.

This will change. You can either help yourselves by helping me. Or be
dragged kicking and screaming, but it will be done.

Respectfully submitted,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma


On Wed, May 8, 2013 at 4:31 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
gn_iulius_caesar@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Avete Omnes,

Since I am again unable to reply on the CP list. Whereas you copied 1
paragraph of caesar's post. Let me respond to you.

1. You guys have created this issue.
2. This issue was brought to your attention publicly.
3. You, Dexter and Metellus basically chose to act like an ostrich and put
your heads in the sand saying oh no...we don't really have a problem.
4. You did this despite a number of citizens posting this problem exists.

You have created this crises.

You had every chance to recognize the reality that a problem exists, that
you take it in the good faith it was given, and worked to resolve it. But
instead you chose to dig in and be obstinate about it.

No one is talking of purging the CP - except you, Fabius.

You and Dexter and Metellus could solve this problem tomorrow if you wanted
to and it would go away and Nova Roma would be all the better because of
it. But, you choose not to! That stubbornness is your own rope wrapping
around your own neck. Seriously, this issue, this tempest in a teacup, is
becoming hyper-inflated because of you gentlemen.

Fix the problem and it goes away.
Fix the problem and NR gains.
Fix the problem because it is the right thing to do.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/8/2013 5:27:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
robert.woolwine@... writes:

Fix the problem and it goes away.
Fix the problem and NR gains.
Fix the problem because it is the right thing to do.
Consul...
How do we fix the problem? Tell me. You are now honorary PM of the
College of Pontiffs. I say there is no problem you say there is. So how is
there a problem? Here is my checklist:

A. Is the State Cult being honored?

1. Are the Feast days set?
Good and bad days for business announced.
2. Are the Ludi being carried out?
3. Are the state rituals to our Gods honored?

B. Temples. We have no Temples to oversee. Is it part of the "plan"
to start building a Temple? If so we need to start accepting
subscriptions for construction money.
Maybe we should start using Kickstarter to get money?

C. Giving the Senate advice. (Anytime, Conscript Fathers)

D. Oversee the other Colleges.

Now apparently you want to add to the College's job description: the Rabbis
so we can counsel the People about matters religious. Perhaps we should
form something like the Fetiales but task them to deal with the People's
religious problems rather than a Foreign government. But you realize that
you are changing the Constitution if you demand this.

Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus

.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

There are two parts of that contract, Pontiff, the Gods and the State. No
one has criticized you dealing with the God portion of the contract. But,
you are being called out for your complete ignorance of the State. The
State that is an association of indviduals into a community of shared
beliefs. You have been derelict in that aspect of the Contract, Pontiff.
You seem to focus solely on one part of that contract ignoring the other.
Why is that?

You know the problem - it has been voiced by a number of citizens.
Since you members of the CP have failed to take any measure to rectify the
problem.
The senate will be presented with my suggestions to give you guys the
kickstart you need to address the lack of common decency and respect that
you should have for your fellow citizens.
*
*
*OVERSEE THE OTHER COLLEGES? What's to oversee when you guys don't even
met to appoint or reject individual applications that have been sitting
there for over a year. In this you are absolutely failing. Care to
respond? I would love to hear a rationalization about this?*

Wait, so what you are saying is that Metellus's "Friendly Neighborhood
Pontiff" motto was a scam? Good to know. Interesting.

Respectfully,

Sulla

C. Petronius P. M. Cn. Iulio Caesari censori salutem,
 
About the pax deorum.
I know by your last year messages within the Senate what you thought about the pax deorum matter. Now you change your mind and suddenly you care this subject. But for now, the pax deorum is working. What bad signs from gods someone saw? What bad signs was publicly shared in the Forum? None.
Then we must declare that the pax deorum is ok. 
 
I recall you that the CP is not a teacher about private cults, the private cult to the Lares and Penates is not a matter to discuss by the CP. Everyone is free with his private worship.
The CP administrates the public state ceremonies and answers to the askings which come from the Senate or magistrates about religious concerns.
 
The alarm bell rang, because kids moved the button on.
There is no problem between the CP and Nova Roma and gods are in peace with Nova Roma.
 
Vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. VII Idus Maias MMDCCLXVI  

________________________________
De : Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@... À : "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Jeudi 9 mai 2013 1h31
Objet : [Nova-Roma] The Role of Our College of Pontiffs - gangrene and death


 

Caesar Fabio Maximo sal.

I am posting this to you here in response to your thread on the CP list - the post where you think my comments and Sulla's are just about politics. They are not. They are about what one part of Nova Roma is or isn't doing.
 
It doesn't require one to be a religious expert to recognize that the CP appears to have its feet nailed to the floor as the entire structure is inexorably drawn into the black hole of irrelevance. Metellus' concerns regarding the assumption that we inherited the pax deorum are valid. How do we know we did? If we are to look at our history over the last few years it isn't a convincing bag of evidence. Unless some basic questions are addressed, then the role of the CP will be diminished further.

Maybe it is time the CP went back to basics and started with ensuring we do have a re-established or even new pax deorum? Simply saying "we do" is not enough. Any attempt to "woolly" up these issues up by essentially looking down your nose at genuine issues and concerns and dismissing them as a "check mark" isn't going to work anymore. Obfuscation and mumbling about how its very complex won't cut it either. Is there evidence that we successful consulted the Gods over the issue of NR's claim to be the inheritors of the pax deorum? Yes or no? Where is the evidence if yes? Those are simple questions which are easily reduced to a check mark if you wish but valid regardless. What I am hearing instead is essentially "well, I am sure we must have done" or "its a very complicated business" or "we were all over the map (code for know one knows what the hell they are doing?)" or "{insert latest excuse}".

The "government" is not growling, people are concerned.  This has been going on for years, and years. People have voiced their concerns for years and years, and Sulla and I both hoped you would all get ya poop in a group and start a co-ordinated plan for movement forward. Defending those embalmed is a tough job lad. Because you did not demonstrate activity or even a willingness to recognize valid and real concerns we all ended up with Piscinus and his twisted version of the religio. Why did he appeal? Well frankly many citizens at the time felt he spelled momentum as opposed to the mummified decaying corpses seated in the CP, where the most enervating sound of activity that occurred year to year was the faint "plink" as another body part detached and fell on the floor. It was thanks in part to YOU Fabi and others in the CP over the years that have done precisely squat that we were "gifted" with Piscinus. Some have tried hard, Lentulus, Metellus,
but collectively one could imagine opening the door to the CP and being assailed by the whiff of gangrene and death.

Sulla and I are ringing the alarm bell. Time to heed it Fabi because this CANNOT be allowed to continue.   

Optime vale. 

From: Robert Woolwine <mailto:robert.woolwine%40gmail.com To: "mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Role of Our College of Pontiffs -- Third (and Final) Part

Ave Metellus et Omnes,

I have one question.  What happened to "Your friendly neighborhood
pontiff?"  That was your motto on the Religio Romana list right?  Ok that's
two questions.

I have lots more to say about this...but seriously, inquring minds would
like to know.  Considering everything I have asked for, every matter that
has been sent in the thread by our citizens would fall under that paradigm
of services provided for by your friendly neighrbood pontiff, would it not?
(Ok 3 questions).  Or was that motto just a bunch of words more
feelgoodism with no substance beyond the 5 seconds it took to actually
write up that motto? (4 questions)

This is for everyone on the list.  Is it me or do the members in the CP
seem to want to blame everyone else than actually deal with the problem
presented to them?  I honestly want to know, from everyone.  Email me
publicly or privately.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:33 AM, Q Caecilius Metellus <
mailto:q.caecilius.metellus%40gmail.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Dexter,

If there were no problems between the CP and Nova Roma - then there would
be no complaints. The very fact that there are complaints, the very fact
that there are applications that slip through the cracks, shows there are
problems. They are administrative problems, problems with the lack of
division of authority. Problems that could actually get fixed very very
easily, if you guys cared. But, you (the collective you) do not.

This will change. You can either help the process or I will make sure you
guys are dragged kicking and screaming until it's done.

One would think we are having dogmatic argument over some detail of belief!
But no, its simply about you guys answering messages and keeping a record
of the messages and dealing with applicants in a timely manner. Such a
huge inconvenience for those of you who keep your heads in the sky, yet
hardly do anything. One would think you are so overworked in coming up
with some esoteric philosophic thesis like Lucretius, on the nature of
things, If you were at least that would be something, something that could
be seen, observed and debated upon.

Vale,

Sulla

Caesar Dextro sal

All things in order old chap. Last year we had pressing problems in the secular realm, and there was always the chance that you as Pontifex Maximus might take time out of your busy schedule in performing in your self-scripted role as the senatorial Javert, hunting plots here there. Maybe I thought you might actually plan to re-establish many of the undone rituals, look to those cults that lie vacant (or did I miss that you found all these applications people sent in?), and generally engage in the level of reconstruction one assumes we all want. Guess not huh?

I am not asking the CP take us down a road on interfering in people's private beliefs. We had quite enough of that under the ghastly Piscinus. You remember him? You were allied with his faction for a long time. No, all Sulla, I and others are asking is that out of sheer common decency you might poke your head up from the arduous business of watching the paint dry inside the CP and answer some inquires to the best of your ability. Maybe not lose applications. Send Fabius on a memory retention course? Ideally the CP might confirm your assertion that all is well between Nova Roma and the Gods. Evidence, not belief, evidence is required. This question of the pax deorum pre-dates you. It has often raised itself, and has never been answered other than by the mumbling about it being obvious it exists, or that all is well (ha! whoever thought that one up clearly wasn't awake in NR for the last 10 years or so - maybe longer) or just silence. 

Come on Dexter just admit it, this is beyond you to get this done. 

Optime vale 


________________________________
From: Jean-François Arnoud <jfarnoud94@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 8, 2013 10:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Role of Our College of Pontiffs - gangrene and death



 
C. Petronius P. M. Cn. Iulio Caesari censori salutem,
 
About the pax deorum.
I know by your last year messages within the Senate what you thought about the pax deorum matter. Now you change your mind and suddenly you care this subject. But for now, the pax deorum is working. What bad signs from gods someone saw? What bad signs was publicly shared in the Forum? None.
Then we must declare that the pax deorum is ok. 
 
I recall you that the CP is not a teacher about private cults, the private cult to the Lares and Penates is not a matter to discuss by the CP. Everyone is free with his private worship.
The CP administrates the public state ceremonies and answers to the askings which come from the Senate or magistrates about religious concerns.
 
The alarm bell rang, because kids moved the button on.
There is no problem between the CP and Nova Roma and gods are in peace with Nova Roma.
 
Vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. VII Idus Maias MMDCCLXVI  

________________________________
De : Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@... À : "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Jeudi 9 mai 2013 1h31
Objet : [Nova-Roma] The Role of Our College of Pontiffs - gangrene and death


 

Caesar Fabio Maximo sal.

I am posting this to you here in response to your thread on the CP list - the post where you think my comments and Sulla's are just about politics. They are not. They are about what one part of Nova Roma is or isn't doing.
 
It doesn't require one to be a religious expert to recognize that the CP appears to have its feet nailed to the floor as the entire structure is inexorably drawn into the black hole of irrelevance. Metellus' concerns regarding the assumption that we inherited the pax deorum are valid. How do we know we did? If we are to look at our history over the last few years it isn't a convincing bag of evidence. Unless some basic questions are addressed, then the role of the CP will be diminished further.

Maybe it is time the CP went back to basics and started with ensuring we do have a re-established or even new pax deorum? Simply saying "we do" is not enough. Any attempt to "woolly" up these issues up by essentially looking down your nose at genuine issues and concerns and dismissing them as a "check mark" isn't going to work anymore. Obfuscation and mumbling about how its very complex won't cut it either. Is there evidence that we successful consulted the Gods over the issue of NR's claim to be the inheritors of the pax deorum? Yes or no? Where is the evidence if yes? Those are simple questions which are easily reduced to a check mark if you wish but valid regardless. What I am hearing instead is essentially "well, I am sure we must have done" or "its a very complicated business" or "we were all over the map (code for know one knows what the hell they are doing?)" or "{insert latest excuse}".

The "government" is not growling, people are concerned.  This has been going on for years, and years. People have voiced their concerns for years and years, and Sulla and I both hoped you would all get ya poop in a group and start a co-ordinated plan for movement forward. Defending those embalmed is a tough job lad. Because you did not demonstrate activity or even a willingness to recognize valid and real concerns we all ended up with Piscinus and his twisted version of the religio. Why did he appeal? Well frankly many citizens at the time felt he spelled momentum as opposed to the mummified decaying corpses seated in the CP, where the most enervating sound of activity that occurred year to year was the faint "plink" as another body part detached and fell on the floor. It was thanks in part to YOU Fabi and others in the CP over the years that have done precisely squat that we were "gifted" with Piscinus. Some have tried hard, Lentulus, Metellus,
but collectively one could imagine opening the door to the CP and being assailed by the whiff of gangrene and death.

Sulla and I are ringing the alarm bell. Time to heed it Fabi because this CANNOT be allowed to continue.   

Optime vale. 

From: Robert Woolwine <mailto:robert.woolwine%40gmail.com To: "mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 7, 2013 8:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] The Role of Our College of Pontiffs -- Third (and Final) Part

Ave Metellus et Omnes,

I have one question.  What happened to "Your friendly neighborhood
pontiff?"  That was your motto on the Religio Romana list right?  Ok that's
two questions.

I have lots more to say about this...but seriously, inquring minds would
like to know.  Considering everything I have asked for, every matter that
has been sent in the thread by our citizens would fall under that paradigm
of services provided for by your friendly neighrbood pontiff, would it not?
(Ok 3 questions).  Or was that motto just a bunch of words more
feelgoodism with no substance beyond the 5 seconds it took to actually
write up that motto? (4 questions)

This is for everyone on the list.  Is it me or do the members in the CP
seem to want to blame everyone else than actually deal with the problem
presented to them?  I honestly want to know, from everyone.  Email me
publicly or privately.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Tue, May 7, 2013 at 4:33 AM, Q Caecilius Metellus <
mailto:q.caecilius.metellus%40gmail.com
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------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

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http://www.aquincum.hu/programajanlo/floralia-roman-spring-festival-in-aquincu m
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Salve Lentule, et Salvete omnes!



If the gods ever decide to be *really* kind to me, I will attend this event
sometime . but not, unfortunately, this year. Still, I know it will be
wonderful, and I hope for excellent weather, a huge attendance, and few
production challenges!



Vale et valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca



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Salvete omnes,

I am very happy to become a roman citizen

I would like to introduce me ; I am Gaia Emilia Rufa,

A temporary illness but also a bad quality of internet did not
allow me to make this earlier. I apologize for this.

I live in the great
part of the year in Gallia (near Lutetia), but also in Magna Graecia (Southern Italy) for 3 months where I live actually. I am 62 years old, I have two children (37 and 33 years) and two grandsons.

Due to my origins, I am connected with  Rome (my father's family is Southern Italian). Since my birth and thanks to my father, I showed very early a very great interest for the Roman civilization. Unfortunately Gallia did'nt allowed me to study Latin because dueto the French' school system, it is not useful, being considered a dead
language. I consider that they made a serious mistakebecause Latin is the source of French Language and is present
in great majority in most of the modern languages spoken in Europe and a precious help for the spelling (at the present time, we notice big gaps on this subject).

I would like to know if there is possibility, among Nova Roma,  to
study Latin.

Rome gave
the foundations of the western civilization and I am happy that she was able
to survive and that she is reborn even more beautiful than never after
all these centuries of obscurantism in the course of which the humanity
didn't really found the happiness.

To become Roman a citizen is an happy return to my origins. I have to respect the laws of the country where I live, I have a French passport but my real homeland in the heart is Rome and I am proud of this.

I come among you to learn and to serve Rome as best I can

Please, forgive me but I don't speak English very well and I try to help me by the translator.

Valete omnes

Gaia Aemilia Rufa




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C. Maria Caeca C. Aemiliae Rufae S. P. D.



Welcome, Citizen, to Nova Roma! You may wonder about the salutation I used,
and the changes I made to your name. Let's start by translating (loosely)
what I'm saying. C. (the initial used for the prenomen Gaia or Gaius) Maria
Caeca sends many greetings to C. (Gaia) Aemilia Rufa. But .because I am
sending greeting *to* you, I must use the dative case of your name, so
Aemilia becomes Aemiliae and Rufa becomes Rufae. Also, instead of writing
out Salutem plurimam dicit, I take advantage of a long standing (I think)
Latin tradition and use the abbreviation of the phrase, which consists of
the first letters of each word.



As to learning Latin, oh yes, that is very possible, and I trust our
Magistra will post with much more information, as soon as she can.
Meanwhile, if I can ever be of assistance to you in any way, please don't
hesitate to contact me privately at the above email address, and, once
again, welcome to Nova Roma!



Vale bene! (Be well)



C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

A. Tullia Scholastica C. Aemiliae Rufae S.P.D.

Yahoo decided that it should send this message to one of its favorite haunts, Cygnus X-1, the Andromeda Galaxy, Pluto...but my mailbox was off limits. I did receive Caeca's greeting to you, and wondered why I was being summoned.

Salve Rufa,

And welcome to Nova Roma. I hope you find what you are looking in Nova Roma.

It is always good to welcome a new citizen but even more a new member of
the Aemilia gens.

Vale optime,
Crassus

Salve Gaia Emilia
Rufa!
 
Welcome to Nova Roma.
Enjoy practicing Latin.
 
Tiberius Marcius Quadra

________________________________
From: C. Aemilius Crassus <c.aemilius.crassus@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 8:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Welcome to new members



 
Salve Rufa,

And welcome to Nova Roma. I hope you find what you are looking in Nova Roma.

It is always good to welcome a new citizen but even more a new member of
the Aemilia gens.

Vale optime,
Crassus

Salvate Omnes!

Apologies for my delay in replying to your email.  I'm afraid work has kept me away from the keyboard long enough to reply.  My name is Tiberius Marcius Ramazinus, I reside in Louisiana, U.S.A..  My family originates from Northern Italy, specifically our family hails from Padova and Bologna.  My ancestors migrated to the new world in the late 1800's establishing themselves in Central America.  From there my immediate family migrated to the U.S. for better opportunities.  Our close nit family attempts to keep Italian roots and traditions alive here in our little corner of Louisiana.  My portion of the world has traces of French Acadian language known as Cajun, a variation of French.  (It is actually a dialect).  

Specifically I have always been an admirer of the Roman history, it's language, and all of the variations that flourished after Rome.  I am an Engineer and I learned to speak five languages, mainly romantic languages.  I am currently attempting to learn Russian.  I have always loved latin and recently I started practicing Rosetta Stone in Latin.   Any time hollywood makes a new Roman-era movie, whether good or bad, I watch it. Spartacus was the last Roman series I watched.  I adorn my home with Roman armours and weapons in one of the living rooms that I use to display my small collections that I couldn't control myself from purchasing.  

I heard about Roma Nova based on internet searches, I happened upon the constitution on you tube and immediately signed up.  It is exciting to be a part of an institution that is trying to rebuild the ancient roman culture.  I hope to meet people who represent this organization one day and continue to learn about the culture.   I also hope to learn Latin, learn the architecture, and the culinary arts of the Romans.  And I am curious about the Roman religions.  I would like to learn more about them. Also I loved playing all Roman themed games, my last obsession was Rome Total War and the expansion.  And the various mods I could find.  It was my favorite.  

I read all the emails that get sent but I have not had time to participate in discussions, however many of them are interesting and paint a candid picture of this group.  I'm glad to meet you all informally.

Valete omnes!

Tiberius


________________________________
From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS <jbshr1pwa@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2013 2:01 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Welcome to new members



 
Salvete omnes!
Hello everyone, and a special greeting to our new members.

I would like to welcome all new members of this group, who are also new citizens of the Republic of Nova Roma. We are very pleased to see you here, and we hope that you will enjoy your time among us. We hope you will be here for a long time, and that you will grow your interest and love of Rome the longer you stay.

So far we don't know very much about you, other than your email address, so please tell us your Roman name, where in the world you live, and what brings you to Rome. Was it a book, a film, a play, something you did at school or college, or something you hope to do in life?

Why not tell us what you want to learn by joining Nova Roma? What questions are burning away inside your mind that you would like answers to?

You will find lots of helpful and knowledgeable people here who are eager to guide you in your path for greater knowledge. We can help you find your way around our website and point out where to look for exactly the information you want.

So, don't be shy, we don't bite! Tell us a bit about yourself and let us all greet you as new citizens among friends.

Valete omnes!
Hope to see you soon!
Crispus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Dexter Cn. Cornelio Lentulo salutem dicit,
 
I warmly remember the Floralia in Aquincum on May 2009 !
But this year I cannot meet you because of an important meeting of our Latin circle in Paris tomorrow.
 
I wish great Floralia to you and to all the partners of its success!
 
Have good sun and fun!
 
Optime vale.
 
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. V Idus Maias MMDCCLXVI 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Tiberius,
 
Let me add my welcome as well.    If memory serves, I believe there is a Roman reenactment group in New Orleans which is affiliated with Nova Roma (NR).   Check on the NR main site.
 
Additionally, we have recently organized a Roman reenactment society here in the Houston area: Romanorum Legio Tredecim Gemina Congressus, Inc., a Texas nonprofit corporation.   It will use the name Legio XIII Gemina.    Our application for recognition by NR is pending.     We are in the preliminary stages now, but hope to have a website up and running very soon.     If you are interested, please let me know.
 
In the meantime, welcome!
 
Vale,
 
Publius Quinctius Petrus Augustinus
 
 

________________________________
From: Tevye Cruz <tevyecruzconstruction@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, May 10, 2013 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Welcome to new members

 

Salvate Omnes!

Apologies for my delay in replying to your email.  I'm afraid work has kept me away from the keyboard long enough to reply.  My name is Tiberius Marcius Ramazinus, I reside in Louisiana, U.S.A..  My family originates from Northern Italy, specifically our family hails from Padova and Bologna.  My ancestors migrated to the new world in the late 1800's establishing themselves in Central America.  From there my immediate family migrated to the U.S. for better opportunities.  Our close nit family attempts to keep Italian roots and traditions alive here in our little corner of Louisiana.  My portion of the world has traces of French Acadian language known as Cajun, a variation of French.  (It is actually a dialect).  

Specifically I have always been an admirer of the Roman history, it's language, and all of the variations that flourished after Rome.  I am an Engineer and I learned to speak five languages, mainly romantic languages.  I am currently attempting to learn Russian.  I have always loved latin and recently I started practicing Rosetta Stone in Latin.   Any time hollywood makes a new Roman-era movie, whether good or bad, I watch it. Spartacus was the last Roman series I watched.  I adorn my home with Roman armours and weapons in one of the living rooms that I use to display my small collections that I couldn't control myself from purchasing.  

I heard about Roma Nova based on internet searches, I happened upon the constitution on you tube and immediately signed up.  It is exciting to be a part of an institution that is trying to rebuild the ancient roman culture.  I hope to meet people who represent this organization one day and continue to learn about the culture.   I also hope to learn Latin, learn the architecture, and the culinary arts of the Romans.  And I am curious about the Roman religions.  I would like to learn more about them. Also I loved playing all Roman themed games, my last obsession was Rome Total War and the expansion.  And the various mods I could find.  It was my favorite.  

I read all the emails that get sent but I have not had time to participate in discussions, however many of them are interesting and paint a candid picture of this group.  I'm glad to meet you all informally.

Valete omnes!

Tiberius

________________________________
From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS <mailto:jbshr1pwa%40btinternet.com To: mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2013 2:01 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Welcome to new members


 
Salvete omnes!
Hello everyone, and a special greeting to our new members.

I would like to welcome all new members of this group, who are also new citizens of the Republic of Nova Roma. We are very pleased to see you here, and we hope that you will enjoy your time among us. We hope you will be here for a long time, and that you will grow your interest and love of Rome the longer you stay.

So far we don't know very much about you, other than your email address, so please tell us your Roman name, where in the world you live, and what brings you to Rome. Was it a book, a film, a play, something you did at school or college, or something you hope to do in life?

Why not tell us what you want to learn by joining Nova Roma? What questions are burning away inside your mind that you would like answers to?

You will find lots of helpful and knowledgeable people here who are eager to guide you in your path for greater knowledge. We can help you find your way around our website and point out where to look for exactly the information you want.

So, don't be shy, we don't bite! Tell us a bit about yourself and let us all greet you as new citizens among friends.

Valete omnes!
Hope to see you soon!
Crispus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

I can confirm the sponsorship petition is before the Senate as we we speak.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Welcome Tiberius Marcius Ramazinus!

From,
Tiberius Marcius Quadra


________________________________
From: Tevye Cruz <tevyecruzconstruction@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Welcome to new members



 
Salvate Omnes!

Apologies for my delay in replying to your email.  I'm afraid work has kept me away from the keyboard long enough to reply.  My name is Tiberius Marcius Ramazinus, I reside in Louisiana, U.S.A..  My family originates from Northern Italy, specifically our family hails from Padova and Bologna.  My ancestors migrated to the new world in the late 1800's establishing themselves in Central America.  From there my immediate family migrated to the U.S. for better opportunities.  Our close nit family attempts to keep Italian roots and traditions alive here in our little corner of Louisiana.  My portion of the world has traces of French Acadian language known as Cajun, a variation of French.  (It is actually a dialect).  

Specifically I have always been an admirer of the Roman history, it's language, and all of the variations that flourished after Rome.  I am an Engineer and I learned to speak five languages, mainly romantic languages.  I am currently attempting to learn Russian.  I have always loved latin and recently I started practicing Rosetta Stone in Latin.   Any time hollywood makes a new Roman-era movie, whether good or bad, I watch it. Spartacus was the last Roman series I watched.  I adorn my home with Roman armours and weapons in one of the living rooms that I use to display my small collections that I couldn't control myself from purchasing.  

I heard about Roma Nova based on internet searches, I happened upon the constitution on you tube and immediately signed up.  It is exciting to be a part of an institution that is trying to rebuild the ancient roman culture.  I hope to meet people who represent this organization one day and continue to learn about the culture.   I also hope to learn Latin, learn the architecture, and the culinary arts of the Romans.  And I am curious about the Roman religions.  I would like to learn more about them. Also I loved playing all Roman themed games, my last obsession was Rome Total War and the expansion.  And the various mods I could find.  It was my favorite.  

I read all the emails that get sent but I have not had time to participate in discussions, however many of them are interesting and paint a candid picture of this group.  I'm glad to meet you all informally.

Valete omnes!

Tiberius

________________________________
From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS <jbshr1pwa@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 2, 2013 2:01 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Welcome to new members


 
Salvete omnes!
Hello everyone, and a special greeting to our new members.

I would like to welcome all new members of this group, who are also new citizens of the Republic of Nova Roma. We are very pleased to see you here, and we hope that you will enjoy your time among us. We hope you will be here for a long time, and that you will grow your interest and love of Rome the longer you stay.

So far we don't know very much about you, other than your email address, so please tell us your Roman name, where in the world you live, and what brings you to Rome. Was it a book, a film, a play, something you did at school or college, or something you hope to do in life?

Why not tell us what you want to learn by joining Nova Roma? What questions are burning away inside your mind that you would like answers to?

You will find lots of helpful and knowledgeable people here who are eager to guide you in your path for greater knowledge. We can help you find your way around our website and point out where to look for exactly the information you want.

So, don't be shy, we don't bite! Tell us a bit about yourself and let us all greet you as new citizens among friends.

Valete omnes!
Hope to see you soon!
Crispus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

A couple of months ago, one of our citizens, Caninus, put together some
cyber magic, and we now have a site that has elements of Facebook, Twitter
and traditional message forums. It's great fun, and an excellent way for
our newer citizens to interact with, and get to know, other citizens in an
informal atmosphere. Check it out ...you'll find all sorts of interesting
places and things!

You'll have to register and join, but this link will take you to the main
page, and, although I don't remember exactly what to do, there should be
prompts to help you.

http://nrdev.co/social/activity

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca

Salve Sulla,
 
Thank you.
 
Vale,
 
Petrus Augustinus
 
 
 


________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2013 5:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Welcome to new members


Ave,

I can confirm the sponsorship petition is before the Senate as we we speak.

Respectfully,

Sulla

fyi

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tribunus Plebis M. Pompeius Caninus Quiritibus SPD
　
Salvete citizens of Nova Roma!

Consul Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix has called the Senate to order.



CALL TO ORDER
FORMAL MEETING OF THE SENATE IN SESSION
10 - 18 March 2766 A.U.C

PRESIDING MAGISTRATE:
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, Consul

QUORUM:
No absences posted to the Senate list. No proxy votes assigned. All
Senators are therefore present for this session and the quorum is
achieved.


SCHEDULE:
09:00 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 10-May-2013 : Call to order. Debate period
commences.
09:00 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 14-May-2013 : Debate period ends.
09:01 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 15-May-2013 : Call to vote. Voting period
commences.
09:01 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 17-May-2013 : Voting period ends.
11:59 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 18-May-2013 : Call to close issued before this
time.


AGENDA:
I. Legion Sponsorship (Debate + Vote)
II. Sodalitas Geographia - Requested by Senator Audens (Debate +
Vote)
III. Discussion and approval of Service Mark (Debate + Vote)
IV. Update on IRS Audit and Website migration – Previous Business
carryover (Debate)
V. Discussion – Close of the Tax period.
VI. Senatus Consulta on the Collegium Pontificum








Optime valete!


Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Tribunus Plebis M. Pompeius Caninus Quiritibus SPD
　
Salvete citizens of Nova Roma!

Consul Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix has called the Senate to order.



CALL TO ORDER
FORMAL MEETING OF THE SENATE IN SESSION
10 - 18 May 2766 A.U.C

PRESIDING MAGISTRATE:
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, Consul

QUORUM:
No absences posted to the Senate list. No proxy votes assigned. All
Senators are therefore present for this session and the quorum is
achieved.


SCHEDULE:
09:00 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 10-May-2013 : Call to order. Debate period
commences.
09:00 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 14-May-2013 : Debate period ends.
09:01 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 15-May-2013 : Call to vote. Voting period
commences.
09:01 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 17-May-2013 : Voting period ends.
11:59 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 18-May-2013 : Call to close issued before this
time.


AGENDA:
I. Legion Sponsorship (Debate + Vote)
II. Sodalitas Geographia - Requested by Senator Audens (Debate +
Vote)
III. Discussion and approval of Service Mark (Debate + Vote)
IV. Update on IRS Audit and Website migration – Previous Business
carryover (Debate)
V. Discussion – Close of the Tax period.
VI. Senatus Consulta on the Collegium Pontificum








Optime valete!


Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

FYI

http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/05/10/18172042-plague-may-have-helped-end-roman-empire?lite&lite=obnetwork

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Greetings again to all citizens,

I had originally wanted to address some of the statements made in this
forum on the role of our College of Pontiffs, particularly those of L
Cornelius Sulla (whose name, as such, is not reasonably able to be
translated into English) and of Statia Cornelia Valeriana Iuliana
Aeternia (whose name also, as such, is not reasonably able to be
translated into English) in response to my prior postings on the
matter. I note, however, that there is something before our Senate on
that matter, so for now, I will hold on addressing those statements.

Instead, noting that it has been announced that our Senate will be
issuing some advice, or perhaps simply endorsing one thing or another,
on the matter, I will go only so far as to address the matter of our
State cult. To wit, while I have no shortage of further inquiries that
I feel ought be made of the People, of our magistrates and Senate, and
of our Sacred Colleges, whatever peripheral information those inquiries
may also provide, those inquiries would be directed toward one thing,
easy to say but not a small matter at all, and it is this one thing
which, before any real progress may be made, I feel we must determine
lest we find ourselves returning to undo things done: we -- we as a
whole: the People, our elected magistrates, our Senate, and so on --
must come to a clear vision of what we want our state cult to be and how
we want it to operate. Failing that, in my opinion, I feel we may be
laying foundations only to condemn ourselves to revisit matters time
and time again.

Signed,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus

--
In accordance with the edict governing posts in this forum
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/89259), especially its
Articles 5 and 6, I have tried to ensure that this post is entirely in
English, with two exceptions: a) references by name to other
citizens, which have been noted herein; and, b) the signing of the name
of the poster, which necessarily is in Latin, as the same edict
requires.

In a message dated 5/12/2013 10:22:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
q.caecilius.metellus@... writes:

L Cornelius Sulla (whose name, as such, is not reasonably able to be
translated into English)

Oh nonsense. Of course it can. Lucius of Family Long Horn who is red as
a berry.

Mine is fifth son of the Family Green Bean who is great.

But why the English translation of Roman family names? Hmm Family of
Companion of _Aeneas_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeneas) , Paid Soldier?
Why bother? Its our Gens and cognomen that make us Roman.

Q. Fabius Maximus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Decius Laterensis omnibus S.P.D.

I've been looking into how the tunic and toga are made since I'm planning on having a set made.  The toga virilis is pretty straightforward.  However, one thing I haven't been able to figure out is how the purple stripes are placed on a toga praetexta and the matching tunica.  Finding pictures of people wearing the toga praetexta isn't hard, but I've never seen a picture of the garments laid out to show how the color is placed.  I'm sure someone here knows and can help me out, though.

Di vos incolumes custiodiant!

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Q. Fabio salutem,
 
You ask:
"But why the English translation of Roman family names?"
 
It is perhaps a joke with a last year praetorian edict on Latin for the forum policy...
Is he Q. Metellus one year behind the times?
We have a new praetor for this year.
 
Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. III Idus Maias MMDCCLXVI  

________________________________
De : "QFabiusMaxmi@..." <QFabiusMaxmi@... À : Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Envoyé le : Lundi 13 mai 2013 13h21
Objet : Re: [Nova-Roma] Our State Cult


 



In a message dated 5/12/2013 10:22:32 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
mailto:q.caecilius.metellus%40gmail.com writes:

L Cornelius Sulla (whose name, as such, is not reasonably able to be
translated into English)

Oh nonsense. Of course it can. Lucius of Family Long Horn who is red as
a berry.

Mine is fifth son of the Family Green Bean who is great.

But why the English translation of Roman family names? Hmm Family of
Companion of _Aeneas_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeneas) , Paid Soldier?
Why bother? Its our Gens and cognomen that make us Roman.

Q. Fabius Maximus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

In a message dated 5/13/2013 11:22:43 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
rajuc47@... writes:

I've been looking into how the tunic and toga are made since I'm planning
on having a set made. The toga virilis is pretty straightforward.
However, one thing I haven't been able to figure out is how the purple stripes are
placed on a toga praetexta and the matching tunica. Finding pictures of
people wearing the toga praetexta isn't hard, but I've never seen a picture
of the garments laid out to show how the color is placed. I'm sure someone
here knows and can help me out, though.

Salve,
Oh you are right. But, you must be an Equite or a Senator to wear those
markings until third century AD during the Dominate. Since I don't believe
you are either here in NR (the Republic) you can't have them. For that
Illegal tunic that you just have to have, the stripes (clavus) run vertically
on the tunic, one from each shoulder to the hem. Varro says they run down
the back as well. They were not true purple, but more dusky rose according
to Pliny. True that purple was available but expensive (Pliny said 100
denarii for a talent (pound) of the stuff. Ovid says that you would be insane
to pay that.)

The toga is shaped oddly. A sort of rectangle with a broad inverted "V"
placed on top. The edging was placed along the "V" but not the rectangle.
The stripe's width designated ranking was two inches for a Equite and
three inches for Senators. An inch = 25mm

Ordinary citizens just wore white, whitened with clay. By mid Principate
imperial decrees allowed leading citizens 1" clavi to show distinction.
(History of the Emperors: Alex. Sev.)

Both my Tunic and Toga was used this weekend for a TV pilot. I was
working somewhere else.

Vale
Q. Fabius Maximus

Sent from my Verizon BlackBerry.




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Q. Metello salutem plurimam dicit,
 
We may be proud that the Senate wants to give the CP and advice, but unfortunately the Senate has no authority on religious matters neither on the C.P. working. :-)
I refer you to the NR Constitution where are specified the provinces of both the Senate and the Collegium Pontificum.
 
I think more important for Nova Roma and for our Quirites that the Senate follows its duty in creating a second consul, a second praetor and makes filled the missing magistracies.
The CP Item on the Senate meeting is totally irrelevant, but we have none item for fullfilling the greatest public magistracies when this is the duty of the Senate.
 
Optime vale.
 
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. III Idus Maias MMDCCLXVI
  

________________________________
De : Q Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@... À : nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Envoyé le : Lundi 13 mai 2013 7h24
Objet : [Nova-Roma] Our State Cult


 

Greetings again to all citizens,

I had originally wanted to address some of the statements made in this
forum on the role of our College of Pontiffs, particularly those of L
Cornelius Sulla (whose name, as such, is not reasonably able to be
translated into English) and of Statia Cornelia Valeriana Iuliana
Aeternia (whose name also, as such, is not reasonably able to be
translated into English) in response to my prior postings on the
matter. I note, however, that there is something before our Senate on
that matter, so for now, I will hold on addressing those statements.

Instead, noting that it has been announced that our Senate will be
issuing some advice, or perhaps simply endorsing one thing or another,
on the matter, I will go only so far as to address the matter of our
State cult. To wit, while I have no shortage of further inquiries that
I feel ought be made of the People, of our magistrates and Senate, and
of our Sacred Colleges, whatever peripheral information those inquiries
may also provide, those inquiries would be directed toward one thing,
easy to say but not a small matter at all, and it is this one thing
which, before any real progress may be made, I feel we must determine
lest we find ourselves returning to undo things done: we -- we as a
whole: the People, our elected magistrates, our Senate, and so on --
must come to a clear vision of what we want our state cult to be and how
we want it to operate. Failing that, in my opinion, I feel we may be
laying foundations only to condemn ourselves to revisit matters time
and time again.

Signed,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus

--
In accordance with the edict governing posts in this forum
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Nova-Roma/message/89259), especially its
Articles 5 and 6, I have tried to ensure that this post is entirely in
English, with two exceptions: a) references by name to other
citizens, which have been noted herein; and, b) the signing of the name
of the poster, which necessarily is in Latin, as the same edict
requires.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius C. Laterensi salutem,
 
About the purple stripes, you need to make a difference between laticlavius and angusticlavius.
Laticlavius is a large (latus) stripe (clavus) down all the tunica, it was on the middle.
It is a sign of the senators, with a little golden crescent at lace-up red shoes, and of course a golden ring.
 
Angusticlavius was two thin (angustus) stripes one at left and one at right of the tunica.
Those tunicas were for the members of the equester ordo.
 
You may read that in the dictionary of Anthony Rich under the word clavus.
 
Optime vale.
 
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. III Idus Maias MMDCCLXVI  

________________________________
De : Glenn Thacker <rajuc47@... À : NR Main List <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Lundi 13 mai 2013 20h22
Objet : [Nova-Roma] Color placement on a tunica/toga


 

C. Decius Laterensis omnibus S.P.D.

I've been looking into how the tunic and toga are made since I'm planning on having a set made.  The toga virilis is pretty straightforward.  However, one thing I haven't been able to figure out is how the purple stripes are placed on a toga praetexta and the matching tunica.  Finding pictures of people wearing the toga praetexta isn't hard, but I've never seen a picture of the garments laid out to show how the color is placed.  I'm sure someone here knows and can help me out, though.

Di vos incolumes custiodiant!

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

Thank you for your advice.

The Comitia will be summoned to enact new rules and procedures this week.

As I explained 2 weeks ago this is going to be a very busy month, but I
appreciate your concern.

Again, you are wrong that the Senate has no authority on religious matters
since in the absence of procedures the Senate as supreme policy making body
of Nova Roma has the authority.

Respectfully,

Sulla



On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Jean-Fran�ois Arnoud
<jfarnoud94@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Placidus Lateranensi omnibusque S.P.D.

As I'm a magistrate (Ædilis Curulis), I'm entitled to wear a
purple-striped toga prætexta and a tunica anguisticlavia. I held the
same office 2 years ago, when I had a tunica + toga set made especially
for me by a very nice guy in Spain who owns the Armillum online shop
[I'm not sure whether I can post his URL here, but it's easy to find:
just Google "Armillum Shop"...]. At the same time I received a document
from a fellow Italian citizen. I'm not allowed to upload anything on the
Yahoo group page, so I'm uploading the whole (Word) document on 4Shared,
for all of you to download:

http://www.4shared.com/office/ImhM2B0h/La_tunica_e_la_toga.html

The text is in Italian (if you wish I shall post a translation as well)
but the illustrations are extremely clear. Essentially, my tunica looks
like the second picture in the top row - each of the strips is supposed
to be 2,5 cm wide - and my toga looks like the picture on the second
page, except that the strip is purple rather than red [I'm a magistrate,
not a senator!] and it's 3 cm wide. I admit that it's not easy to
understand from the pic what the exact shape of a toga is, but luckily I
also found this:

http://www.fashion-era.com/images/all_greeks_romans/roman_toga_pattern-3.jpg

According to the page where I found this pic, A to B should be 18 feet
and C to D should be 7 feet. This may look exaggerated but it isn't,
considering that the toga was supposed to be wrapped around your whole
body one and a half times.

I hope these are useful. If anyone is interested in a translation of the
document I uploaded on 4Shared, I shall re-upload a translated version
of it.

Optime vale, et valete.
- P. Annæus Constantinus Placidus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

...Whoops! I forgot what was meant to be the main point of my reply...
the colored strip! :-) Well, if you take into account the
semicircle-shaped diagram I've posted in my previous message, the strip
has to be placed around the full length of the circular edge, and it's
meant to be from 3 cm to 3.5 cm wide. As I said, senators have it in red
and magistrates have it in (dark) purple.

- P. Ann. Con. Placidus

C. Petronius L. Sullae salutem,
 
Senate by SC may summon the CP to enact decrees on the applications matter, but the senate cannot make itself PC process by an SC. 
 
Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Maias MMDCCLXVI  

________________________________
De : Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... À : "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Lundi 13 mai 2013 23h47
Objet : Re: [Nova-Roma] Our State Cult


Ave,

Thank you for your advice.

The Comitia will be summoned to enact new rules and procedures this week.

As I explained 2 weeks ago this is going to be a very busy month, but I
appreciate your concern.

Again, you are wrong that the Senate has no authority on religious matters
since in the absence of procedures the Senate as supreme policy making body
of Nova Roma has the authority.

Respectfully,

Sulla



On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Jean-François Arnoud
<jfarnoud94@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

We agree to disagree, The Constitution gives the Senate Supreme Policy
making powers and since there is no decreta in conflict the Senate can
address issues where there nothing! And, CURRENTLY there is nothing
answering the wide void that has been pointed out. So, you can either Pass
Lentulus proposal or better yet, if the Senate passes my Consulta pass it
again in the CP.

Again, you could have fixed this when you summoned the CP by including
Lentulus's proposal You ignored his sensible proposal. Now, I have
brought the matter to the Senate.

Lentulus was the only one to take positive steps to address this issue.

Nova Roma deserves a responsive and responsible College. The People
deserve it. This tired obstructionism is simply not going to work,
Pontifex Maximus. Fix the problem and it goes away. Prove to the citizens
of Nova Roma that you actually care about them!

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 9:11 PM, Jean-Fran�ois Arnoud
<jfarnoud94@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Dextro sal.

Incorrect in this case. The CP has a void - it has not spoken. In this case concerning the subject of the proposed SC, the Senate can legally issue a Senatus consultum. If you can't organize the CP to regulate a simple administrative proposal that will increase its efficiency, and hopefully end lost applications etc, then the Senate will.

The words of the Constitution are clear and simple. A senatus consultum cannot overrule a decretum. In this case there is NO decretum and no sign you will address the proposal internally in the CP. Therefore as there is no decretum to overrule the senatus consultum, if passed, will be Constitutional.

If you don't want a simple proposal to pass to increase efficiency, then overturn it by decretum if and when the senatus consultum passes. I warrant you will have a hard time convincing a lot of people that such an act is anything but pedantic pique.

Optime vale


________________________________
From: Jean-François Arnoud <jfarnoud94@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, May 13, 2013 10:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Our State Cult



 
C. Petronius L. Sullae salutem,
 
Senate by SC may summon the CP to enact decrees on the applications matter, but the senate cannot make itself PC process by an SC. 
 
Optime vale.

C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Maias MMDCCLXVI  

________________________________
De : Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... À : "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Envoyé le : Lundi 13 mai 2013 23h47
Objet : Re: [Nova-Roma] Our State Cult


Ave,

Thank you for your advice.

The Comitia will be summoned to enact new rules and procedures this week.

As I explained 2 weeks ago this is going to be a very busy month, but I
appreciate your concern.

Again, you are wrong that the Senate has no authority on religious matters
since in the absence of procedures the Senate as supreme policy making body
of Nova Roma has the authority.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Mon, May 13, 2013 at 12:59 PM, Jean-François Arnoud
<jfarnoud94@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Aemilius C. Petronio Q. Fabio omnibusque SPD,

Well since this year moderation edictum keeps a lot of last year edictum
Metellus isn't frozen in time.

Valete optime.