Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Jul 1-11, 2013

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90832 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2013-07-01
Subject: KALENDIS QVINTILIBVS - FELICITATI
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90833 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-07-01
Subject: Renaissance - Re: JC Quote - Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The world is just s
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90834 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-01
Subject: More improvements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90835 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-01
Subject: Re: More improvements
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90836 From: James Mathews Date: 2013-07-02
Subject: Roman Signal Station
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90837 From: SP Robinson Date: 2013-07-02
Subject: Re: Statistics
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90838 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Happy Birthday Sabine!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90839 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Sabine!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90840 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Sabine!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90841 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Sabine!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90842 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Join Factio Veneta Today
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90843 From: SP Robinson Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Sabine!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90844 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Sabine!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90845 From: Sabinus Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Gratias maximas!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90846 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Happy Fourth of July
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90847 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Ludi Apollinares
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90848 From: Robert Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Re: [Nova_roma_] Happy Fourth of July
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90849 From: Robert Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Re: Happy Fourth of July
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90850 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Edictum XXI of Cn. Lentulus leg. pr. pr. Pannoniae on the creation o
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90851 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Edictum XXII of Cn. Lentulus leg. pr. pr. Pannoniae on the appointme
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90852 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Edictum XXIII of Cn. Lentulus leg. pr. pr. Pannoniae on the creation
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90853 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Edictum XXIV of Cn. Lentulus leg. pr. pr. Pannoniae on the appointme
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90854 From: jirirys Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Oath of Office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90855 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Re: Oath of Office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90856 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-07-05
Subject: Re: To Dexter and Scholastica
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90857 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-05
Subject: Re: To Dexter and Scholastica
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90858 From: James Mathews Date: 2013-07-05
Subject: Battle Of Akragas - 406 BC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90859 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-05
Subject: Something from the new Roma Nova list
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90860 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Motto
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90861 From: Bruno Zani Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Motto
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90862 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Ludi Apollinares opening
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90863 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Welcome back Triari
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90864 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: LUDI APOLLINARES 2766 - HISTORICAL QUIZ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90865 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Pater Apollo
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90866 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: LUDI APOLLINARES: Sacrifice and ritual to Apollo
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90867 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Improv Poetry July 6th-7th Ludi Apollinares
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90868 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares opening
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90869 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Ludi Apollinares 2766 Poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90870 From: Chip Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Welcome back Triari
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90871 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Welcome back Triari
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90872 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Welcome back Triari
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90873 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Welcome back Triari
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90874 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Welcome back Triari
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90875 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Welcome back Triari
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90876 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Ludi Apolinares, musica!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90877 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Ludi Apollinares: poetry offering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90878 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: and one more ..
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90879 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: poetry offering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90880 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: poetry offering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90881 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: poetry offering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90882 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares 2766 Poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90883 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apolinares, musica!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90884 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Welcome back Triari
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90885 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: [Nova_roma_] and one more ..
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90886 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: poetry offering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90887 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: [Nova_roma_] Ludi Apollinares: poetry offering
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90888 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares 2766 Poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90889 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Ludi Apollinares 2766-Certamen Mythologicum "Mythology Quiz" (DIes 1
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90890 From: James Mathews Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: The Roman Bridge, Pont Julien
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90891 From: jirirys Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Nova Roma Pannonia - Regio Marcomannia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90892 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Nova Roma Pannonia - Regio Marcomannia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90893 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90894 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90895 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90896 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90897 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90898 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90899 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90900 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90901 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Classic gaming in Latin
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90902 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Classic gaming in Latin
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90903 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Hiatus (3 weeks)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90904 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Censorial Edict - Nova Roman census 2766 A.U.C.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90905 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: ATTN: Factio Albata!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90906 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Ludi Apollinares: another poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90907 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Re: ATTN: Factio Albata!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90908 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Re: ATTN: Factio Albata!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90909 From: desneau99 Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90910 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90911 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90912 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - Horse race
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90913 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Re: ATTN: Factio Albata!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90914 From: Elizabeth Legge Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90915 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: another gem from the Roma Nova list!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90916 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: LUDI APOLLINARES 2766 - HISTORICAL QUIZ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90917 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: LUDI APOLLINARES 2766 - HISTORICAL QUIZ
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90918 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90919 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90920 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90921 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Ludi Apollinares: musica!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90922 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90923 From: Elizabeth Legge Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: musica!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90924 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90925 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: musica!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90926 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Ludi Apolinares: more music!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90927 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90928 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90929 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90930 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90931 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90932 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90933 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Ludi Apolinares: more music!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90934 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Ludi Apolinares: more music!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90935 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Ludi Apolinares: more music!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90936 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90937 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90938 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Ludi: one of the promised surprises!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90939 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Ludi Apollinares 2766- Certamen Mythologicum "Mythology Quiz" (Dies
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90940 From: Elizabeth Legge Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Ludi: one of the promised surprises!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90941 From: Elizabeth Legge Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apolinares: more music!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90942 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Ludi Apollinares 2766: "A Game of Mottoes" (Parody/Play)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90943 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi: one of the promised surprises!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90944 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares 2766: "A Game of Mottoes" (Parody/Play)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90945 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares 2766: "A Game of Mottoes" (Parody/Play)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90946 From: Bruno Zani Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares 2766- Certamen Mythologicum "Mythology Quiz" (D
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90947 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Official Summons of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90948 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares 2766- Certamen Mythologicum "Mythology Quiz" (D
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90949 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata - VERY LONG
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90950 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Repeal: Lex Arminia de Ministris Provincialbus - Discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90951 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: II - Repeal - Lex Labiena de custodia perpetua fori
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90952 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua La
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90953 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Constitutional Change - Section II.C.2 - Ordo Equester/Equestrian Or
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90954 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Lex Cornelia de Apparitoribus - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90955 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90956 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90957 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Lex for summoning the Plebs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90958 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata - VERY LONG
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90959 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata - VERY LONG
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90960 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata - VERY LONG
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90961 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata - VERY LONG
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90962 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90963 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90964 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90965 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90966 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90967 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90968 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90969 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90970 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90971 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90972 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90973 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90974 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90975 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90976 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Technical question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90977 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Technical question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90978 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90979 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Technical question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90980 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Technical question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90981 From: Scipio Second Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90982 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Technical question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90983 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90984 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Technical question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90985 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90986 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Technical question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90987 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90988 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90989 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Provincial Governor Oath of Office of M. Pompeius Caninus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90990 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Technical question
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90991 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90992 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Lex Cornelia de Punctis Censualibus - was Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornel
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90993 From: Scipio Second Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90994 From: Scipio Second Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90995 From: Scipio Second Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90996 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90997 From: qfabiusmaximus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90998 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90999 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: For your evening's pleasure
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91000 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91001 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91002 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91003 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91004 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91005 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Veneta uncovers Albata's Secret Weapon
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91006 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91007 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90832 From: Gaius Petronius Dexter Date: 2013-07-01
Subject: KALENDIS QVINTILIBVS - FELICITATI
C. Petronius Dexter Pontifex Maximus omnibus Quiritibus salutem dicit
plurimam,



Today morning, capite velato,

I invoked Iuno Covella by saying the traditional formula:



"Die Septimi te kalo Iuno Covella"

"Die Septimi te kalo Iuno Covella"

"Die Septimi te kalo Iuno Covella"

"Die Septimi te kalo Iuno Covella"

"Die Septimi te kalo Iuno Covella"

"Die Septimi te kalo Iuno Covella"

"Die Septimi te kalo Iuno Covella"



I offered incense and saying prayers I asked the Goddess to be favorable
toward

us, the Quirites of Nova Roma.



The festivals to be celebrated in the month of July shall be:



-------------------------------



QVINTILIS



1 F Kal. Quint. N Nundina

2 G a.d.VI Non.Quint. N Ater

3 H a.d.V Non.Quint. N

4 A a.d.IV Non.Quint. N

5 B a.d.III Non.Quint. NP Poplifugium

6 C Pr Non.Quint. N Apollini

7 D Non. Quint. N L.
Apollinares, Ater

8 E a.d.VIII Id. Quint. N L. Apollinares

9 F a.d.VII Id. Quint. N L.
Apollinares, Nundina

10 G a.d.VI Id. Quint. C L. Apollinares

11 H a.d.V Id. Quint. C L. Apollinares

12 A a.d.IV Id. Quint. C L. Apollinares

13 B a.d.III Id. Quint. C L. Apollinares

14 C Pr Id. Quint. C

15 D Id. Quint. NP Feriae Iovi

16 E a.d.XVII Kal.Sex. F Ater

17 F a.d.XVI Kal.Sex. C Nundina

18 G a.d.XV Kal.Sex. C

19 H a.d.XIV Kal.Sex. NP Lucaria

20 A a.d.XIII Kal.Sex. C

21 B a.d.XII Kal.Sex. NP Lucaria,
Concordiae

22 C a.d.XI Kal.Sex. C

23 D a.d.X Kal.Sex. NP Neptunalia

24 E a.d.IX Kal.Sex. N

25 F a.d.VIII Kal.Sex. NP Furrinalia,
Nundina

26 G a.d.VII Kal.Sex. C

27 H a.d.VI Kal.Sex. C

28 A a.d.V Kal.Sex. C

29 B a.d.IV Kal.Sex. C

30 C a.d.III Kal.Sex. C

31 D Pr Kal.Sex. C



----------------------------



At the end I poured a libation of milk thanking to the Goddess for Her

benevolence.



Optime valete.



C. Petronius Dexter

Arcoiali scribebat

Kalendis Quintilibus MMDCCLXVI aVc.







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90833 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-07-01
Subject: Renaissance - Re: JC Quote - Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The world is just s
T M Quadrae P P Licinus Salutem plurmam dicit,
Dear Procius,

I get it; and its nuances.

If Justin was a person in bio-life (not e-life or online life), I'd be extremely concerned. But since it sounds like he's a online speaker, informing proper authorities might be that "waste of time."

If there's anyone that cares about Justin, it is advisable to tell him to be careful what he says, especially if it is of a violent nature. We have freedom of speech, but not freedom to threat. I think all us Romans have learned that for the better part of 2000 years, hence our renaissance.

Pax,

Tiberius Marcius Quadra


________________________________
From: publius_porcius_licinus <eljefe3126@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 1:14 PM
Subject: JC Quote - Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The world is just stupit!!! 56% stupit



 
P P Licinus T M Quadrae SPD

The quote was not on FB, but in the chat window of an online game he was playing. In response to another player's quip that Justin was mentally unstable (which was also meant in jest), he posted the following:

"Oh yeah, I'm real messed up in the head, I'm going to go shoot up a school full of kids and eat their still, beating hearts
lol
jk"

To me, it is so obvious that his reply, tasteless as it was, was also in jest, that it would be grounds to support an opposition candidate when the District Attorney for Justin's county came up for re-election. It was an utter waste of taxpayer resources to arrest, book, and jail this young man, to say nothing of the expense of the upcoming trial.

My apologies to anyone here who considers this entire subject off-topic (save for the parallel to the recent threat against one of our Consuls), but I am a citizen not only of America Austroccidentalis, but also of the US state in which this took place.

Optime Vale!

P Porcius Licinus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90834 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-01
Subject: More improvements
Avete Omnes,

I would like to inform you of further improvements to the infrastructure of
the NR website.

he contact on the Nova Roma website: http://www.novaroma.org/bin/contact

If you select Senate - it will go to the entire senate.
If you select Consuls - it will come to me
If you select Censors - it will go to both Censors.

That now works as well.

Respectfully,

Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90835 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-01
Subject: Re: More improvements
Ave,

I forgot to thank Caninus for fixing this part of the website and testing
it to ensure that it works.

My apology.

Vale,

Sula


On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 8:31 PM, Robert Woolwine
<robert.woolwine@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90836 From: James Mathews Date: 2013-07-02
Subject: Roman Signal Station
�British Roman Signal Stations�

One of the aspects of the Roman military that is often overlooked in
history are their constructions and use of signal stations to transmit
emergency information over long distances both quickly and
accurately. In the fourth century, the coastline of Britain was the
target for raids from the Saxon lands, and in order to combat this
threat Count Theodosius set up a line of these signal stations along
the North Yorkshire Coastline for the purpose of warning against such
raids. It is possible as many believe, that one of these stations
would have been placed on Flamborough Head although today there is no
trace of such a construction. The most likely point for such a
station, (on Beacon Hill) now is utilized as a stone quarry, and so
nothing of such a station remains. The reasoning behind such a belief
is that at this point on the Great headland, one can view Filey,
Scarborough Castle, as well as the Whitby headland. The Roman light
house remains at Dover Castle is a definite indication that the Romans
in Britain were on to this means of information transmission. It is
thought that the headquarters for such an array of signal stations
would be best settled at Bridlington Bay, since there has been the
suggestion put forward that perhaps there was an additional series of
these stations which were constructed in a southerly direction around
this great anchorage.

It is assumed from the findings at Bridlington Bay (some pottery and
coins) that there was a signal station here as well which may well
have been cited on Flamborough�s Head, as a small fortlet with a
beacon very similar in many ways to the Scarborough Station.

I have attempted to re-draw the plan of the Scarborough Signal Station
(1) from sketches of the station�s remains. The northeastern portion
of the station has been unfortionately reclaimed by the sea as
portions of the cliff have been worn away by the heavy coastal waves.
That small drawing will be posted on my blog in the next few days as
soon as my wife and I can get together and input the sketch into the
computer at:

http://RomanStudies.blogspot.com

I hope that you all will be able to enjoy such .

(1) Reference: Paul Elliot, �The Last Legionary, Life As A Roman
Soldier In Britain, AD400,� Spellmount, Gloucestershire, GB, 2007

Respectfully Submitted;

Marcus Audens



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90837 From: SP Robinson Date: 2013-07-02
Subject: Re: Statistics
Salve,

On Wed, Jun 26, 2013 at 12:18 AM, Robert Woolwine
<robert.woolwine@... A friend of my wife's asked a question about parsecs on her FB wall,
my answer caused one of her friends to ask if I were Sheldon. =)

Vale - Venator
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90838 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Happy Birthday Sabine!
Salve Sabine,

I wish you a happy birthday and a great year to come to you and yours.

Vale optime,
Crassus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90839 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Sabine!
Ave,

I noted it on your facebook amice, and now again here! Have a wonderful
and enjoyable Birthday Amice! :)

Vale,

Sulla


On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 5:19 AM, C. Aemilius Crassus <
c.aemilius.crassus@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90840 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Sabine!
Salve, Sabine!



I wish you a very happy birthday, and a wonderful year!



Vale quam optime!

C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90841 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Sabine!
Salvete,

Happy Birthday Sabine! May it be with filled with loot,chocolate, and even better company!

Valete bene,
Aeternia

Sent from my iPhone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90842 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Join Factio Veneta Today
Esteemed members of Factio Veneta and all fans of the Blues!

The stables are back up and running!

Come join us at: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/factioveneta/

And be sure to select Factio Veneta in your Album Civium profile whether
you are a charioteer, a chariot owner or a fan.

The Ludi Apollinares will begin soon!

Gratias!

M. Pompeius Caninus
Dominus Factionis Venetae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90843 From: SP Robinson Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Sabine!
Salve et salvete;

Bona natale!

--
Vale et valete
P Ullerius Stephanus Venator Piperbarbus Poetus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90844 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday Sabine!
Ave Sabine!

May you have a wonderful birthday and many more fine years ahead.

Fac valeas!


Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90845 From: Sabinus Date: 2013-07-03
Subject: Gratias maximas!
SALVETE!

I want to thank you for the best wishes. I am honored!

All the best from my part, too, with health, happiness and prosperity!

Gratias maximas! Thank you very much!

VALETE,
Sabinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90846 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Happy Fourth of July
To all my fellow Americans -


May you all have a very happy Independence Day!


Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis


Vivat Nova Roma!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90847 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Ludi Apollinares
C. Aemilius Crassus Praetor Novae Romae omnibus SPD,

The Ludi Apollinares will be celebrate from July 6th to July 13th with
activities on the 6th, 9th and 13th.

The Praetura would like to ask any citizen or member that wishes to
contribute to send his or her works to the email
cDOTaemiliusDOTcrassusATgmailDOTcom.

We are dividing the contributions in Images (photos, paintings, videos),
writing (stories, texts fictional or not, poems) and theater works.

There will be a horse race (rider and horse without chariot) in the
Circus Maximus on the closing day (13th of July). Since there will be
only one race we pretend to have two horses for each factio and I asked
the factiones heads to help with the process. So if any citizen wish to
enter a horse to the race it should contact the respective factiones heads:

Factio Albata - C. Maria Caeca
Factio Praesina - Since I didn't received any contact from the factio
the citizens should contact me directly.
Factio Russata - Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
Factio Veneta - M. Pompeius Caninus

Valete optime.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90848 From: Robert Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Re: [Nova_roma_] Happy Fourth of July
Ave,

Happy Independence Day! We should all reflect - as Egypt is falling apart - how blessed we our that our revolution was as unique and successful as it truly was! :)

Vale,

Sulla

Sent from my iPhone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90849 From: Robert Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Re: Happy Fourth of July
Ave,

Happy Independence Day! We should all reflect - as Egypt is falling apart - how blessed we our that our revolution was as unique and successful as it truly was! :)

Vale,

Sulla

Sent from my iPhone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90850 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Edictum XXI of Cn. Lentulus leg. pr. pr. Pannoniae on the creation o
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Quiritibus Pannoniis praesertim Marcomannis et Boiis et Quadis s. p. d.

This is a happy day for Czech and Slovakian Nova Romans. Thanks to activities started by Ti. Iulius Nerva, I shall gladly issue the following 4 edicts, 1st, on the creation of Regio Marcomannia, 2nd, on the appointment of its regional lieutenant governor, 3rd, on the creation of Civitas Boihaemum, and 4th, on the appointment of its deputy lieutenant governor.

Valete!



EDICTUM XXI. LEGATI PRO PRAETORE PANNONIAE


Edictum XXI. Legati Pro Praetore Cn. Cornelii Lentuli de Regione Marcomannia creanda
Edictum XXI. of Legatus Pro Praetore Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus on the creation of Regio Marcomannia
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Praetori Jogkörű Kormányzó XXI. Rendelete Regio Marcomannia létrehozásáról
ENGLISH VERSION
I. I hereby establish and create Regio Marcomannia as an
administrative subdivision of Provincia Pannonia, consisting the area
and of the Nova Roman citizens of Czechia and Slovakia.

II. The Regio shall be governed by the Legatus Regionis, appointed by the Governor.


III. This Edictum becomes effective immediately.


Given the 4th of July, 2766 AUC.


Datum a. d. IV. Non. Quin. L. Sulla (III) cos. sine collega anno MMDCCLXVI AUC.
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
LEGATUS PRO PRAETORE

PANNONIAE PROVINCIAE
MAGYAR VÁLTOZAT
I. Ezennel létrehozom és megalakítom Provincia Pannonia Regio
Marcomannia elnevezésű új adminisztratív kerületét, mely Csehország és
Szlovákia területéből és nova római polgáraiból áll.


II. A Regiót a Legatus Regionis kormányozza, akit a Kormányzó nevez ki.


III. Ez az Edictum azonnali hatállyal életbe lép.


Kelt, a. u. c. 2766. július 4-én.
Datum a. d. IV. Non. Quin. L. Sulla (III) cos. sine collega anno MMDCCLXVI AUC.
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
LEGATUS PRO PRAETORE

PANNONIAE PROVINCIAE

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90851 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Edictum XXII of Cn. Lentulus leg. pr. pr. Pannoniae on the appointme
EDICTUM XXII. LEGATI PRO PRAETORE PANNONIAE


Edictum XXII. Legati Pro Praetore Cn. Cornelii Lentuli de Legato Legati Pro Praetore nominando


Edictum XXII. of Legatus Pro Praetore Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus on the appointment of Legatus Leg. Pr. Pr.


Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Praetori Jogkörű Kormányzó XXII. Rendelete Regionális Alkormányzó (Legátus) kinevezéséről

ENGLISH VERSION
I. I hereby appoint Sextus Lucilius Tutor to the rank of Legatus Legati Pro Praetore to fulfill the following functions:

I.1. Personal Representative of the Governor in Regio Marcomannia (the area of Czechia and Slovakia);


I.2. Legatus Regionis Marcomanniae: Lieutenant-Governor assigned
to Regio Marcomannia as Superior of the administration of Regio
Marcomannia (the area of Czechia and Slovakia);


II. Special Obligations:


II.A. Personal Representative of the Governor in Regio Marcomannia (the area of Czechia and Slovakia);


II.A.1. Representation of the Legatus Pro Praetore in any case
when there is an occasion to promote the Nova Roman province of Pannonia in Regio Marcomannia (the area of Czechia and Slovakia). In this role,
he has right to act in the name of the Legatus Pro Praetore, but cannot
make any governmental decision without the authorization of the Legatus
Pro Praetore. For the sake of these duties quick accessibility on
internet, by phone, and if necessary, personal presence are a high
requirement.


II.A.2. Representation of the Legatus Pro Praetore in Regio
Marcomannia in special cases when it is ordered by the Legatus Pro
Praetore. In this role, he has the right to act in the name of the
Legatus Pro Praetore, and can make governmental decisions independently, but only in that special matter to which he has given this
authorization from the Legatus Pro Praetore.


II.B. Superior of the administration of Regio Marcomannia (Czechia and Slovakia)


II.B.1. Representation of the Legatus Pro Praetore in Regio Marcomannia;


II.B.2. Control of the Regio Marcomannia, representation and administration of the Nova Roman citizens of this Regio;

II.B.3. Supervision and coordination of the officers appointed in the territory of Regio Marcomannia;


II.B.4. Execution of any orders concerning the administration of Regio Marcomannia given by the Legatus Pro Praetore.


III. General Obligations:


III.A. Regular accessibility on internet, (or, if the situation
requires, by phone). For the sake of this cause, to answer the e-mails,
weekly at least.


III.B. In so far as the weekly accessibility cannot be warranted, to inform the Legatus Pro Praetore in a privat message or on the
Provincial Mailinglist about the date of the absence.


IV. This Edictum becomes effective immediately.


Given the 4th of July, 2766 AUC.


Datum a. d. IV. Non. Quin. L. Sulla (III) cos. sine collega anno MMDCCLXVI AUC.


Cn. Cornelius Lentulus

LEGATUS PRO PRAETORE

PANNONIAE PROVINCIAE

MAGYAR VÁLTOZAT
I. - Ezennel kinevezem Sextus Lucilius Tutort Legatus Legati Pro Praetore rangba, a következő funkciók ellátására:

I.1. A Kormányzó személyes képviselője Regio Marcomanniában (Csehország és Szlovákia területén);


I.2. Legatus Regionis Marcomanniae: Regio Marcomannia (Csehország és Szlovákia) adminisztrációjának felügyelete;
II. Különleges kötelezettségek:


II.A. A Legatus Pro Praetore Személyes Képviselője Regio Marcomanniában (Csehország és Szlovákia területén)


II.A.1. A Legatus Pro Praetore képviselete minden olyan esetben,
amikor Nova Roma Pannonia Provinciája ügyének előmozdítására Regio
Marcomanniában (Csehország és Szlovákia területén) lehetőség adódik.
Ilyen szerepkörben joga van a Legatus Pro Praetore nevében eljárni, de
nem hozhat semmilyen kormányzati döntést a Legatus Pro Praetore
felhatalmazása nélkül. Ezen feladat ellátasa érdekében fokozott
követelmény a gyors elérhetőség interneten és telefonon, és ha
szükséges, a személyes jelenlét biztosítása.


II.A.2. A Legatus Pro Praetore képviselete Regio Marcomanniában
olyan különleges esetekben, amikor a Legatus Pro Praetore külön így
rendelkezik. Ilyen szerepkörben joga van a Legatus Pro Praetore nevében
eljárni, és önállóan kormányzati döntéseket hozni, de csak és kizárólag
abban a külön kérdésben, amelyre a felhatalmazását kapta a Legatus Pro
Praetorétől.


II.B. Regio Marcomannia (Csehország és Szlovákia) adminisztrációjának felügyelete


II.B.1. A Legatus Pro Praetore képviselete Regio Marcomanniában;


II.B.2. Regio Marcomannia területének felügyelete, az odatartozó polgárok képviselete, ügyeinek intézése;


II.B.3. Regio Marcomannia területére kinevezett tisztviselõk ellenõrzése, koordinálása;


II.B.4. A Legatus Pro Praetore Regio Marcomannia adminisztrációjával kapcsolatban adott bármely utasításának végrehajtása.


III. Általános kötelezettségek:


III.A. Rendszeres elérhetõség interneten, (vagy ha a helyzet
megkívánja telefonon). Ennek érdekében legkevesebb hetente válaszolni az e-mailekre.


III.B. Amennyiben a heti elérhetõség nem biztosítható, elõre
tájékoztatni a Legatus Pro Praetorét magánlevélben vagy levelezõlistán
keresztül a távolmaradás idõpontjáról.


IV. Ez az Edictum azonnali hatállyal életbe lép.


Kelt, a. u. c. 2766. július 4-én.


Datum a. d. IV. Non. Quin. L. Sulla (III) cos. sine collega anno MMDCCLXVI AUC.



Cn. Cornelius Lentulus

LEGATUS PRO PRAETORE

PANNONIAE PROVINCIAE

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90852 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Edictum XXIII of Cn. Lentulus leg. pr. pr. Pannoniae on the creation
EDICTUM XXIII. LEGATI PRO PRAETORE PANNONIAE


Edictum XXIII. Legati Pro Praetore Cn. Cornelii Lentuli de Civitate Boihaemo creando

Edictum XXIII. of Legatus Pro Praetore Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus about creating Civitas Boihaemum

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Praetori Jogkörű Kormányzó XXIII. Rendelete Civitas Boihaemum létrehozásáról


ENGLISH VERSION

I. I hereby establish and create Civitas Boihaemum as an
administrative subdivision of Regio Marcomannia of Provincia Pannonia,
consisting the area and of the Nova Roman citizens of Czechia.


II. The Regio shall be governed by the Praefectus Civitatis Boihaemi, appointed by the Governor.


III. This Edictum becomes effective immediately.


Given the 4th of July, 2766 AUC.


Datum a. d. IV. Non. Quin. L. Sulla (III) cos. sine collega anno MMDCCLXVI AUC.


Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
LEGATUS PRO PRAETORE

PANNONIAE PROVINCIAE

MAGYAR VÁLTOZAT

I. Ezennel létrehozom és megalakítom a Provincia Pannonián belüli
Regio Marcomannia Civitas Boihaemum elnevezésű új adminisztratív
kerületét, mely Csehország területéből és nova római polgáraiból áll.


II. A Regiót a Praefectus Civitatis Boihaemi kormányozza, akit a Kormányzó nevez ki.


III. Ez az Edictum azonnali hatállyal életbe lép.


Kelt, a. u. c. 2766. július 4-én.


Datum a. d. IV. Non. Quin. L. Sulla (III) cos. sine collega anno MMDCCLXVI AUC.


Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
LEGATUS PRO PRAETORE

PANNONIAE PROVINCIAE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90853 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Edictum XXIV of Cn. Lentulus leg. pr. pr. Pannoniae on the appointme
EDICTUM XXIV. LEGATI PRO PRAETORE PANNONIAE


Edictum XXIV. Legati Pro Praetore Cn. Cornelii Lentuli de Praefecto Legati Pro Praetore nominando
Edictum XXIV. of Legatus Pro Praetore Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus about appointment of Praefectus Leg. Pr. Pr.
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Praetori Jogkörű Kormányzó XXIV. Rendelete Civitasi kormányzóhelyettes (Prefektus) kinevezéséről


ENGLISH VERSION

I. I hereby appoint Tiberius Iulius Nerva to the rank of Praefectus Legati Pro Praetore to fulfill the following functions:


I.1. Personal Representative of the Provincial Governor and the Regional Lieutenant-Governor in Civitas Boihaemum (the area of Czechia);

I.2. Praefectus Civitatis Boihaemi: Deputy Lieutenant-Governor
assigned to Civitas Boihaemum as Superior of the administration of
Civitas Boihaemum (the area of Czechia);


II. Special Obligations:


II.A. Personal Representative of the Provincial Governor and the
Regional Lieutenant-Governor in Civitas Boihaemum (the area of Czechia);


II.A.1. Representation of the Legatus Pro Praetore and the
Legatus Regionis Marcomanniae in any case when there is an occasion to
promote Nova Roma in Civitas Boihaemum (the area of Czechia). In this
role, he has right to act in the name of the Legatus Pro Praetore or the Legatus Regionis Marcomanniae, but cannot make any governmental
decision without the authorization of the Legatus Pro Praetore or the
Legatus Regionis Marcomanniae. For the sake of these duties quick
accessibility on internet, by phone, and if necessary, personal presence are a requirement.


II.A.2. Representation of the Legatus Pro Praetore or the Legatus Regionis Marcomanniae in Civitas Boihaemum in special cases when it is
ordered by the Legatus Pro Praetore or by the Legatus Regionis
Marcomanniae. In this role, he has the right to act in the name of the
Legatus Pro Praetore or the Legatus Regionis Marcomanniae, and can make
governmental decisions independently, but only in that special matter to which he has given this authorization from the Legatus Pro Praetore or
the Legatus Regionis Marcomanniae.


II.B. Superior of the administration of Civitas Boihaemum (the area of Czechia)


II.B.1. Representation of the Legatus Pro Praetore and Legatus Regionis Marcomanniae in Civitas Boihaemum;


II.B.2. Control of the Civitas Boihaemum, representation and administration of the Nova Roman citizens of this Civitas;


II.B.3. Supervision and coordination of the officers appointed in the territory of Civitas Boihaemum;


II.B.4. Execution of any orders concerning the administration of
Civitas Boihaemum given by the Legatus Pro Praetore and by the Legatus
Regionis Marcomanniae.


III. General Obligations:


III.A. Regular accessibility on internet, (or, if the situation
requires, by phone). For the sake of this cause, to answer the e-mails,
weekly at least.


III.B. In so far as the weekly accessibility cannot be warranted, to inform the Legatus Pro Praetore in a privat message or on the
Provincial Mailinglist about the date of the absence.


IV. Oath of office is required.


V. This Edictum becomes effective immediately.


Given the 4th of July, 2766 AUC.

Datum a. d. IV. Non. Quin. L. Sulla (III) cos. sine collega anno MMDCCLXVI AUC.
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus
LEGATUS PRO PRAETORE
PANNONIAE PROVINCIAE

MAGYAR VÁLTOZAT
I. - Ezennel kinevezem Tiberius Iulius Nervát Praefectus Legati Pro Praetore rangba, a következő funkciók ellátására:


I.1. A Kormányzó és a Regionális Alkormányzó személyes képviselője Civitas Boihaemumban (Csehország területén);


I.2. Praefectus Civitatis Boihaemi: Helyettes Alkormányzóként Civitas Boihaemum (Csehország) adminisztrációjának felügyelete;


II. Különleges kötelezettségek:


II.A. A Legatus Pro Praetore és a Legatus Regionis Személyes Képviselője Civitas Boihaemumban (Csehország területén)


II.A.1. A Legatus Pro Praetore és a Legatus Regionis Marcomanniae képviselete minden olyan esetben, amikor Nova Roma ügyének
előmozdítására Civitas Boihaemumban (Csehország területén) lehetőség
adódik. Ilyen szerepkörben joga van a Legatus Pro Praetore és a Legatus
Regionis nevében eljárni, de nem hozhat semmilyen kormányzati döntést a
Legatus Pro Praetore vagy a Legatus Regionis Marcomanniae felhatalmazása nélkül. Ezen feladat ellátasa érdekében fokozott követelmény a gyors
elérhetőség interneten és telefonon, és ha szükséges, a személyes
jelenlét biztosítása.


II.A.2. A Legatus Pro Praetore vagy a Legatus Regionis
Marcomanniae képviselete Civitas Boihaemumban olyan különleges
esetekben, amikor a Legatus Pro Praetore vagy a Legatus Regionis
Marcomanniae külön így rendelkezik. Ilyen szerepkörben joga van a
Legatus Pro Praetore vagy a Legatus Regionis Marcomanniae nevében
eljárni, és önállóan kormányzati döntéseket hozni, de csak és kizárólag
abban a külön kérdésben, amelyre a felhatalmazását kapta a Legatus Pro
Praetorétől vagy a Legatus Regionistól.


II.B. Civitas Boihaemum (Csehország) adminisztrációjának felügyelete


II.B.1. A Legatus Pro Praetore és a Legatus Regionis Marcomanniae képviselete Civitas Boihaemumban;


II.B.2. Civitas Boihaemum területének felügyelete, az odatartozó polgárok képviselete, ügyeinek intézése;


II.B.3. Civitas Boihaemum területére kinevezett tisztviselõk ellenõrzése, koordinálása;


II.B.4. A Legatus Pro Praetorének és a Legatus Regionis
Marcomanniaenak Civitas Boihaemum adminisztrációjával kapcsolatban adott bármely utasításának végrehajtása.


III. Általános kötelezettségek:


III.A. Rendszeres elérhetõség interneten, (vagy ha a helyzet
megkívánja telefonon). Ennek érdekében legkevesebb hetente válaszolni az e-mailekre.


III.B. Amennyiben a heti elérhetõség nem biztosítható, elõre
tájékoztatni a Legatus Pro Praetorét magánlevélben vagy levelezõlistán
keresztül a távolmaradás idõpontjáról.


IV. A praefectusnak hivatali esküt kell tennie.


V. Ez az Edictum azonnali hatállyal életbe lép.


Kelt, a. u. c. 2766. július 4-én.
Datum a. d. IV. Non. Quin. L. Sulla (III) cos. sine collega anno MMDCCLXVI AUC.



Cn. Cornelius Lentulus

LEGATUS PRO PRAETORE

PANNONIAE PROVINCIAE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90854 From: jirirys Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Oath of Office
CZECH VERSION

Já Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) tímto způsobem slavnostně přísahám, že budu podporovat
čest Nova Roma a budu vždy jednat v nejlepším zájmu lidu a senátu Nova
Roma.

Jako úředník Nova Roma, já Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys)přísahám, že budu
vzdávat poctu bohům a bohyním Řima v mém veřejném životě a budu sledovat římské cnosti v mém veřejném i soukromém životě.

Já
Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) přísahám, že budu podporovat a bránit Religio Romana jako
státní náboženství Nova Roma a přísahám, že nikdy nezpůsobím nic co by
ohrozilo stav státního náboženství.

Já Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) přísahám, že budu chránit a bránit ústavu Nova Roma.

Já Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) dále přísahám, že budu plnit závazky a povinnosti úřadu PRAEFECTUS CIVITATIS BOIHAEMI nejlepšími schopnostmi.

Na mou čest jako občana Nova Roma a v přítonmnosti bohů a bohyň římského
lidu a jejich vůli a laskovosti příjmám pozici PRAEFECTUS CIVITATIS BOIHAEMI se všemi
právy, výsadami, závazkami a povinnostmí, které jsou s tím spojeny.

ENGLISH VESRION


I, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of PRAEFECTUS CIVITATIS BOIHAEMI to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of (enter title of office here) and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.


LATIN VERSION


Ego, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) hac re ipsa decus Novae Romae me defensurum, et semper pro populo senatuque Novae Romae acturum esse sollemniter IVRO.

Ego, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys), officio praefecti civitatis Boihaemi Novae Romae accepto, deos deasque Romae in omnibus meae vitae publicae temporibus culturum, et virtutes Romanas publica privataque vita me persecuturum esse IVRO.

Ego, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys), Religioni Romanae me fauturum et eam defensurum, et numquam contra eius statum publicum me acturum esse, ne quid detrimenti capiat IVRO.

Ego, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) officiis muneris praefecti civitatis Boihaemi me quam optime functurum esse praeterea IVRO.

Meo civis Novae Romae honore, coram deis deabusque populi Romani, et voluntate favoreque eorum, ego munus praefecti civitatis Boihaemi una cum iuribus, privilegiis, muneribus et officiis comitantibus ACCIPIO.

Tiberius Iulius Nerva
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90855 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-04
Subject: Re: Oath of Office
Cn. Lentulus legatus pro praetore Pannoniae Ti. Iulio praefecto civitatis Boihaemi s. p. d.


My sincere congratulations, good luck with your office!

Vale!



________________________________
Da: jirirys <jirirys@... A: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Inviato: Giovedì 4 Luglio 2013 19:27
Oggetto: [Nova-Roma] Oath of Office


CZECH VERSION

Já Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) tímto způsobem slavnostně přísahám, e budu podporovat
čest Nova Roma a budu vdy jednat v nejlepím zájmu lidu a senátu Nova
Roma.

Jako úředník Nova Roma, já Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys)přísahám, e budu
vzdávat poctu bohům a bohyním Řima v mém veřejném ivotě a budu sledovat římské cnosti v mém veřejném i soukromém ivotě.

Já
Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) přísahám, e budu podporovat a bránit Religio Romana jako
státní náboenství Nova Roma a přísahám, e nikdy nezpůsobím nic co by
ohrozilo stav státního náboenství.

Já Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) přísahám, e budu chránit a bránit ústavu Nova Roma.

Já Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) dále přísahám, e budu plnit závazky a povinnosti úřadu PRAEFECTUS CIVITATIS BOIHAEMI nejlepími schopnostmi.

Na mou čest jako občana Nova Roma a v přítonmnosti bohů a bohyň římského
lidu a jejich vůli a laskovosti příjmám pozici PRAEFECTUS CIVITATIS BOIHAEMI se vemi
právy, výsadami, závazkami a povinnostmí, které jsou s tím spojeny.

ENGLISH VESRION


I, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys)  do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys)  swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys)  swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys)  further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of PRAEFECTUS CIVITATIS BOIHAEMI to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of (enter title of office here) and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.


LATIN VERSION


Ego, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys) hac re ipsa decus Novae Romae me defensurum, et semper pro populo senatuque Novae Romae acturum esse sollemniter IVRO.

Ego, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys), officio praefecti civitatis Boihaemi Novae Romae accepto, deos deasque Romae in omnibus meae vitae publicae temporibus culturum, et virtutes Romanas publica privataque vita me persecuturum esse IVRO.

Ego, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys), Religioni Romanae me fauturum et eam defensurum, et numquam contra eius statum publicum me acturum esse, ne quid detrimenti capiat IVRO.

Ego, Ti. Iulius Nerva (Jiří Rys)  officiis muneris praefecti civitatis Boihaemi me quam optime functurum esse praeterea IVRO.

Meo civis Novae Romae honore, coram deis deabusque populi Romani, et voluntate favoreque eorum, ego munus praefecti civitatis Boihaemi una cum iuribus, privilegiis, muneribus et officiis comitantibus ACCIPIO. 

Tiberius Iulius Nerva



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90856 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-07-05
Subject: Re: To Dexter and Scholastica
Salve.

You are welcome.
Well, you could translate them into French. That is supposed to happen
anyway.

How do you arrive at that? One item = 80%? Two, maybe, given that I am
in a group which would benefit? Is this the new math? Suffect elections
would benefit me (and not the rest of the citizenry)? Really? How?

No, dear; it isn't.

Facts? Observations derived solely from two posts, one of which was
illegally obtained? With no consideration of intent or anything else? Are
we in the kangaroo court? Is no one capable of understanding such matters?

Consider the following so-called "facts:" Lately it has been observed
that I live in Massachusetts and am a bent old crone. The source of part of
this nonsense is available to certain parties (and should not be passed on
to others), but those individuals who come up with this incredible fiction
are operating solely on their expectations, not reality. They are assuming
because I am over X age, I am decrepit. Sorry to disappoint you; my family
is long-lived, and you may have to deal with me for another 30 or so years
even though some non-decrepit members of my graduating class have already
passed to the Great Beyond. Some were younger than you, Sulla. As for
Massachusetts, I've driven through it on the way to Roman Market Days and
other reenactments a couple or three times, and we vacationed there when I
was a child, but I have never lived there. So much for the truth of these
assumptions.

Similarly, or so it seems, if two sentences are different in two
different letters, one or both must be a lie--in the "considered" opinion of
someone who hates me. Balderdash.

I don't have any of that type of beam in my eye.

Of course you do. Fabius threatened you; if he had threatened Caeca or
Julia Aquila or Marinus or the Vestal Maxima or me or anyone from the
opposite side, there might have been snickers, but quite possibly no action.
Since I am from the other side, you (plural) are more than delighted to cook
up nonsense to make me look bad--not that appearances have much to do with
reality once we get past La-La Land.

In his case, possibly. In mine, no.

That would require admitting that I lied. Now, in civilized society, as
you may be aware, however dimly, lies are deliberate untruths. Inadvertent
errors or discrepancies are not lies, nor are statements that X appears to
be true about Y entity, while X is not true about the framework in which Y
entity exists. I would also point out that while lying is extremely common
in certain quarters, notably politics and business, in my part of academia
it does not exist. In other parts, sadly it does.

Did Homer lie when he erred in parts of his works? Do the Gregales lie
when they make mistakes in Latin, and later correct them? That happens
quite often in the GLL. Almost every post is followed by one or more of
them correcting errors--and these guys (yes, mostly guys) for the most part
are top Latinists.

What course of action did I choose? Joining NR and not signing on with
your faction? Being intelligent and educated and female? Speaking in the
manner of an educated woman? Recognizing that there is room for
improvement?

No, but perceived "facts" are not necessarily genuine facts. Consider
what "facts" have been stated about me lately. To reiterate: I am a
decrepit, bent old crone with a tinfoil hat, and live in Massachusetts.
Moreover, I think that anyplace outside of New England is unworthy. Wrong
again, Robin.
In other words, admit that I did something I didn't do, or at worst did
inadvertently while very ill in a way that mental operations were not
exactly at their best. Once more, with feeling: LIES ARE DELIBERATE.
Discrepancies between two documents do not necessarily constitute lies. If
someone from the government writes to you and says you owe the IRS ten
million dollars, is that a lie--or perhaps a typo?
What technological fear? I have no technological fear. Whatever gives
you that impression? Hard to have technological fear when one uses a
computer every day, and a fancy CMS virtually every day during the academic
year. Oh, yeah; I learned to program computers in BASIC before most people
had home computers...because I have BIG, BAD technological fear. Sure, an'
I think you broke your wicky-wacky woo.

It happens that I often get spam in Russian, Spanish, and French. I do
not read Russian at all, read only a little Spanish, and while I can read
French, I am not interested in spam written in that tongue. Or my own.

I doubt you will have to worry about Swahili in NR. Remember, you don't
have to read every post on every list. Do you read any in Hebrew, a
language you should know, but utterly absent from the ML?

Moreover, if you do not want what you call spam written in a language
you do not know, why did you join the multilingual Roma-Nova list? Do you
understand Italian / Latin / French? Spanish would seem more likely in your
geographic area, and for religious purposes you should know Hebrew. Why are
you even remotely interested in a list where English is in effect forbidden,
the reverse of the current incarnation of the ML? Hmmm; let me guess...

And why would you continue your fight against me there--in Hebrew, yet,
which is not among the Romance and Latin languages permitted there? Rules
don't apply to you? A non-political list has become political because you
choose to insult and threaten me on this new list--and in Hebrew? (wherever
you fished that up...)

Why do you persist in writing there in English without a translation,
when translation of non-approved languages (non-Italic ones) is a
requirement of the behavioral code? Again you posted in English with no
translation; the praetor is on the list, but you don't get chastised for
writing in English when a translation into Latin or a Romance language is
required.

There is no need to enshrine a moderation issue in a lex. I seem to
recall that someone tried to do something similar some years ago, and it
went over like a lead balloon.
Some of us disagree. I remember a situation in which one consul had to
run the show because both praetores were missing and the other consul had to
tend to macronational matters of great urgency. Of course said consul got
abused by your pals (not sure if you were around); he wasn't in your
faction, and got the usual treatment: insult after insult. Consider what
might happen if you became seriously ill and unable to fulfill the duties of
your office. Or if Crassus did. Or both of you. Redundancy is often a
good thing. I won't mention how strange it would seem to a Roman,
especially a conservative one, to have only one consul and one praetor...
and what, maybe two tribunes? Two quaestores?

a.k.a admit that I committed first-degree murder? Ah, but Your Honor, I
didn't! I am perfectly capable of recognizing that I make mistakes, and it
seems in retrospect that communicating with the party involved was a major
one. However, the charge is false.

And on the BA all is sweetness and light, where I am called a bent old
crone and a prima donna and you termed me a 'bitch?' I might add that such
remarks are based on nothing resembling facts, about the same as the "facts"
which produced the nota. Where these notions came from I don't know unless
they were fueled by alcohol or some less legal substance. Maybe, too, the
114+ degree heat in Phoenix and environs is getting to you. Has it
penetrated farther north, too?

I wouldn't know about your behavior on the Senate list of late... and
may not be able to verify the relevant post contents there as a result.
However, I have seen some pretty snippy comments versus Petronius--and
me--in more than one location. Lentulus has also not escaped the foul
mouths of the less mannered among us, either.
No. Does Dexter? Do you want to remain in that post? I seem to
recall, too, that you had promised that you would not run for office while
you were CFO. Shall we interpret this as lying, as promise breach, simple
memory lapse / inattention...or what?

Glad to hear it.
The rogatores are much more like censorial quaestores than censorial
scribae. Elected magistrates, intended to head a cohors, the second in
command, so to speak. Legally qualified to substitute for the censor, too.

The laws have had other routes, and that is a good thing. The first
true position on the ancient cursus is the quaestura, but there have been
other paths in NR for those with other abilities. That is why there are
vigintisexviri.

I suspect it was created earlier than that. Originally it was a post
for combined election officials, more recently divided into separate offices
whose occupants are called diribitores and custodes. The rogatura was given
to the censores as the equivalent of quaestores, as is more appropriate.
Probably that is why you did not hold it. A knowledge of Latin is also
highly desirable in the revised rogatura, and I suspect you do not possess
that skill. Moreover, one is not supposed to use the database for malicious
purposes, such as making false assumptions about someone's age and other
information present therein or conveying such private information to others.
This is much more serious than mentioning that schools have students (big
surprise, that).

There is good reason not to trust some to appoint qualified scribae.
That has happened recently enough. Censorial scribae and rogatores must be
trustworthy, not the type to pass around private information gleaned from
the database. Since my personal information is being bandied about, I would
doubt that some of the parties who have access to it are behaving in a
fashion worthy of their office.

And yours is the be-all and end-all? One must use both sides of the
brain rationally and in the absence of emotionalism in order to arrive at
proper assessments.

BTW, you seem to have missed some points mentioned below.
And 65 out of how many? 800+? If so, that seems rather low.

Inasmuch as I have much more important and worthy things to do than
respond to the distort and smear crowd, I shall tend to those honorable
matters and render the puerile responses I anticipate the consideration they
deserve.
Vale.

Philosophia Biou Kybernetes

A. Tullia Scholastica
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90857 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-05
Subject: Re: To Dexter and Scholastica
Ave, Scholastica,

I read your post and again you prove my point that nearly 80% of what you
talk about is about you. So, yeah, on the BA I called you a primadonna.

Let's follow the example that Caninus used and pull up a dictionary and see
why I think the saying is justified:

pri·ma don·na [pree-muh don-uh, prim-uh; Italian pree-mah dawn-nah]
<http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.html Show IPA
noun, plural pri·ma don·nas Italian , pri·me don·ne [pree-me dawn-ne]
<http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.html Show IPA .
1.
a first or principal female singer of an opera company.
2.
a temperamental person; a person who takes adulation and privileged
treatment as a right and reactswith petulance to criticism or inconvenience.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prima-donna

Now, obviously we are not talking about definition #1. ;)

In reviewing definition #2, yep I think it all fits. All a citizen needs
to do is to read your previous emails in just THIS THREAD to see clearly
just how definition #2 is applicable to you.

And the last part I want to respond to:

No. Does Dexter? Do you want to remain in that post? I seem to
recall, too, that you had promised that you would not run for office while
you were CFO. Shall we interpret this as lying, as promise breach, simple
memory lapse / inattention...or what?

Sulla: I didn't want to be Consul. I had no intention of running for
consul every again Scholastica. What changed that was the fact that Nova
Roma was referred to Audit by the IRS. Maybe you, with your superior math
and accounting skills should have stepped up to the plate and lead the
organization. Since it was in dire need. Where were you? Oh yeah,
sitting with your hands firmly between your buttcoks, as usual. Someone
had to get up, take accountability and resolve the IRS Audit - so I did. I
didn't want the responsibility the stress or taking on the risk that if
the Audit turned ugly that the cost for the organization could be the loss
of the 501c3 benefits that NR has had for nearly 15 years. So, since you
choose to let others handle it. Now you seem free and clear to criticize
the one person putting aside his own word to protect the organization from
an external threat? I see. Next time Scholastica, that there is an audit,
or some dire emergency that can affect the stability of the organization,
why don't you get out of the sidelines and join the game. Talk is cheap,
and unfortunately talk is all you have.

I do not regret for a moment that I went against my own word to stand for
Consul - that I got elected and am working to turn the organization around.
Someone had to do it. If we had to wait on you -we would still be waiting
to this very day.

Vale,

Sulla








On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 1:38 AM, A. Tullia Scholastica
<fororom@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90858 From: James Mathews Date: 2013-07-05
Subject: Battle Of Akragas - 406 BC
Greetings All;

Last year my wife bought me a battle game called, "Command & Colors:
Ancients". This is a board battle game an I have begun to set it up o
in my home to play. I will be playing both sides of each battle and
it is my intention to not only provide a history of the Battle, and a
Diagram of the battle area, but also to lay down the movement,
attacks, etc., on the board as the game is played. There are fifteen
games in this game box some will be familiar to some people her, some
not so familiar. This will be my contribution to Nova Roma for the
long period ahead. If nothing else happens. I will add this
information as I get it written up to the three above web lists. If
at any time, the Moderators of the first two lists do not want to
allow these information messages, just tell me and as I indicated
previously I will drop the web list. I do not wish to offend anyone.

The first of these battles is the , "Battle of Akragas - 46 BC." I
will provide a short paragraph about the battle here. A longer
discussion about the battle can be found at --

W http://en.wilkipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Akragas(406_BC)

I will redraw a map and post it on my blog when it is ready. I will
be pleased to give you notice that the drawing is posted.

Historical Background:

It is a time of violent competition between the Syracusan Tyrants
(military dictators) and Carthage for control of Sicily. The
Carthaginians under Himilco have besieged Akragas, a city allied with
Syracuse, prompting Daphnaeus and his army to march to its aid. The
Carthaginians split their army into an observation force in front of
Akragas and sent a blocking force to oppose Daphnaeus. The
Carthaginian was almost totally mercenary, while Daphnaeus's force
contained veteran heavy infantry that would prove virtually invincible
when committed to battle. The survivor's of Himilco's badly beaten
army fled to the coastal forts sheltering Mago's observation force.
There was no pursuit and no further battle, Daphnaeus's force was
spent and the forces in Akragas did not sortie. Before another
assault could be made on the Carthaginians, their navy managed to
interdict the Greek supply line, forcing Daphnaeus to withdraw.
Akragas fell eight months later without a fight.

The stage is set. The battle lines are drawn and I am in command.
Can I change history??

War Council:

Carthaginian Army
*Leader Himilco
*Five Command Cards

Syracusan Army
*Leader Daphnaeus
*Six Command Cards
*Move First

Victory
*five Banners

Special Rules
*None

Syracusan Army:
Leaders: Daphnaeus and Dionysius
4 Heavy Infantry, 2 Light Bowmen, 2 Auxila, 1 Light Cavalry, 1 Medium
Cavalry, 1 Light Infantry;

Carthaginian Army:
Leaders: Himilco and Mago
4 Auxila, 2 Medium Infantry, 1 Heavy Infantry, 2 Chariots, 1 Light
Bowmen, 1 light infantry, 1 Light Cavalry.

Note: See the above wikipedia item for a list of references and
article notes.

Respectfully Submitted;

Marcus Audens


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90859 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-05
Subject: Something from the new Roma Nova list
Omnibus in Foro S. P. D.

With the permission of the Roma Nova list owner, and of the original poster,
I am posting a translation of a post that appeared on that list a couple of
days ago. I think it would be interesting to all of us, so I thought I'd
share. I'd like to thank Hadrianus for his help in translation ...he
translated it for me :).

I hope that posts of interest here will be shared with the Roma Nova list,
and vice versa, so that we will always keep in mind that, wherever we may
live, and whatever our native languages may be, we are all Novi Romani, and
united by that.

Salvete Omnes
I send you with pleasure some info from the "Urbs" that I hope will be
acceptable:

Museum of the Imperial Forums in the Markets of Trajan, Rome Excavations at
Palazzo Valentini

From the basement of Palazzo Valentini emerge new archaeological finds that
enrich the artistic significance of an additional seat of the Province of
Rome.

The excavations, for which the administration has so far invested a million
Euros, gave results of exceptional historical and artistic importance,
especially for the importance of the area in Roman times and due to its
proximity with the Forum of Trajan.

The archaeological survey was launched in July last year and was performed
with stratigraphic method under the scientific direction of Professor
Eugenio La Rocca.

In particular, the work has brought to light a residential luxury building,
multi-storey, with floors covered with mosaics and walls decorated with
frescoes first, then from opus sectile. It is likely that the house belonged
to a magistrate.

The finds date back to the third century AD. C. Thanks to the excavations
have surfaced also two large sculptures, which represent two persons wearing
a toga structures for public use.

The statues must be put in context to the arrangement of the area
commissioned by the Emperor Domitian and finished by Trajan by the
beginning of the second century. A.D.

For later periods and until the construction of Palazzo Bonelli (this was
the name of Palazzo Valentini until 1827) the excavations have revealed
important evidence both in terms of building structures and road layouts, as
well as the presence of numerous ceramic finds.

http://www.palazzovalentini.it/scavi.php?lang

Valete Optime in Gratia Deorum
Gaius Aurelius Vindex

Valete optime!
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90860 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Motto
Salvete,


Mea Gloria Fides

This is the motto to my macro family name. I have seen a number of translations.
Some are close to being the same and other are not. How then does this translate it?

Thanks

valete

Paulinus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90861 From: Bruno Zani Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Motto
salve Pauline

I would trnaslate it as "Faith is my glory"

Vale optime,
ALH



________________________________
From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <spqr753@... To: BackAlley <backalley@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 5, 2013 11:08 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Motto



 
Salvete,


Mea Gloria Fides

This is the motto to my macro family name. I have seen a number of translations.
Some are close to being the same and other are not. How then does this translate it?

Thanks

valete

Paulinus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90862 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Ludi Apollinares opening
C. Aemilius Crassus Praetor Novae Romae Quiritibus SPD,



I�m honored to open the Ludi Apollinares of 2766 AVC in name of Nova Roma
and all its citizens.

The Ludi Apollinares had their beginning more than 2000 years ago in a time
Roma was facing one of her darker hours and only the perseverance and
determination of our ancestors allowed the survival of all what is Roman.

I would like to ask we all to think on those Romans facing those danger
times and all countless generations who connect us to them and remember we
are also Cives Romani, Roman citizens, cultural heirs of Roma Antiqua and
it is our duty to contribute to the strengthening of Nova Roma so she may
become the seed of a revival of the Roma culture and values. May that be
our legacy to our descendents and our tribute to our ancestors.

I hope all citizens and members enjoy the Ludi Apollinares and we through
these Ludi honor Pater Apollo.

Pater Apollo may these Ludi be pleasing to you and may you extend your
protection and guidance to Nova Roma.

I declare the Ludi Apollinares 2766 open!

Valete optime Quirites.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90863 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Welcome back Triari
Salve Triari,

I'm very happy to see you back amice. I hope everything is well with you
and your family.

Vale optime,
Crassus


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90864 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: LUDI APOLLINARES 2766 - HISTORICAL QUIZ
Salvete quirites!

It is the middle of the day in Rome, and the sun is high in the sky.

The Ludi are opened, and the first contest, the historical quiz, has begun.

These questions are all linked to Pater Apollo, so that you can tell us (if you already know) or find out (if you don't) about the history and the events surrounding these Ludi.

So join us now in the Roma sunshine as the quiz commences.

Here are the first of the questions.

1. In what year were the Ludi Apollinares first held in ancient Rome?

2. To protect against what different events were they held?

3. What dark days in Roman history were taking place at the time of the first Ludi Apollinares?

You can join in the quiz by sending your answers to the following address:-

***************************************************
SEND YOUR ANSWERS TO:

jbshr1pwa@...

***************************************************

You have until 12:00 Rome time on Tuesday 9 July to send these answers. A second set of questions will be asked on Tuesday.

DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE - otherwise you will tell all of Rome what the answers are!

Valete omnes!
Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90865 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Pater Apollo
C. Aemilius Crassus Praetor Novae Romae Quiritibus SPD,

The Ludi Apollinares are in honor of Pater Apollo a Greek deity with many
aspects or areas of influence. Not unusual, we only have to think on Pater
Jupiter and His many epithets, but I always thought awkward so different
aspects and aspects so separated in my mind but that is probably my modern
concepts that consider apart skills and aspects that were considered close
in our ancestors way of thinking.

Pater Apollo is the God of music and song, patron of the Arts, but also God
of prophecy being His oracle at Delphi probably the most famous of all
ancient oracles. The God of healing, father of Asclepius but also the God
who punishes and destroys having send a plague to the Greek camp in the
Iliad. The God of sun and light.

But also protecting the flocks and cattle and also a God that delights in
foundation of cities being His oracle always consulted by the Greeks before
the foundation of any new colony.

Looking to His many aspects and fields of action I think I can see why
Augustus felt connected to Pater Apollo, a God of civilization and light.

I hope Pater Apollo may be pleased by our Ludi Apollinares and may he shine
His light and protection on Nova Roma and all its citizens.

Valete optime Quirites.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90866 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: LUDI APOLLINARES: Sacrifice and ritual to Apollo
Cn. Lentulus pontifex in nomine C. Aemili praetoris Quiritibus s. p. d.

I salute you Quirites in the name of the sole praetor. This is a splendid day, the beginning of the Ludi Apollinares honoring the Sacred Year of Concordia, 15th Anniversary Year of our war-wounded Republic, Nova Roma.
Let's now unite ourselves in prayer with the praetor and with the College of the Pontiffs and let's pray for a better future of Nova Roma, a more Roman, more open, more successful society! Pray for Nova Roma!

The ritual I have perfomed today moring has been this:



PRAEFATIO - PREFACE TO THE PRAYER


"Iane, Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva, Aesculapi,
hoc anno Anniversarii XV Novae Romae,
hisce tuis ludis Apollinaribus,
vos hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sitis volentes propitii
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
praetori et collegio pontificum et augurum,
mihi, domo, familiae!"

Ianus, Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva, Aesculapius,
in this 15th Anniversary year of Nova Roma,
at this Apollonian Games of Yours,
by offering you this incense
I pray good prayers so
that you be benevolent and propitious
to the Quiritian People of Nova Roma,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the praetor, to the college of the pontiffs and the augurs,
to me, to my household and to my family.


(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)


"Apollo Medice,
hoc anno Anniversarii XV Novae Romae,
hisce tuis ludis Apollinaribus,te hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sis volens propitius
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
praetori et collegio pontificum et augurum,
mihi, domo, familiae!"

Healing Apollo,
in this 15th Anniversary year of Nova Roma,
at this Apollonian Games of Yours,by offering you this incense
I pray good prayers so
that you be benevolent and propitious
to the Quiritian People of Nova Roma,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the the praetor, to the college of the pontiffs and the augurs,
to me, to my household and to my family.


(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)


"Iane, Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva, Aesculapi,
uti vos ture commovendo
bonas preces precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio estote!"

Ianus, Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva, Aesculapius,
as by offering incense
I have prayed good prayers,
for the very same reason
be thou blessed by this wine.


(Libation of wine is made.)


"Apollo Medice,
uti te ture commovendo
bonas preces precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio esto!"

Healing Apollo,
as by offering incense
I have prayed good prayers,
for the very same reason
be thou blessed by this wine.

(Libation of milk is made.)


PRECATIO - THE PRAYER


"Apollo,
hoc anno Anniversarii XV Novae Romae,
hisce tuis ludis Apollinaribus,te precor, quaeso, veneror, obtestor:
uti salutem Rei Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
confirmes, augeas, adiuves,
utique Rem Publicam Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
omnibus morbis et malis hominibus liberes;
utique morbos visos invisosque 
consiliaque impia malaque averrunces,
omnes aegros Novos Romanos
sanes, cures, medearis
ex omni aegritudene!”

Apollo,
in this 15th Anniversary year of Nova Roma,
at this Apollonian Games of Yours,we ask and beseech you, we beg and pray you so
that you may confirm, strengthen and increase
the well being of the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
so that you heal the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites
from all illness and wrongdoing;
so that you may keep away all illnesses visible and invisible;
so that you may heal, cure and recuperate
all sick Nova Romans
from all kinds of diseases.


SACRIFICIUM - THE SACRIFICE


"Harum rerum ergo macte
hoc vino libando,
hoc ture ommovendo
esto fito volens propitius
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
praetori et collegio pontificum et augurum,
mihi, domo, familiae!"

For these reasons, thou blessed
by offering this wine,
by offering this incense,
be benevolent and propitious
to the Quiritian People of Nova Roma,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
to the praetor, to the college of the pontiffs and the augurs,
to me, to my household and to my family.


(Libation of wine is made, and incense is sacrificed.)


PIACULUM - THE EXPIATION OF MISTAKES DURING THE RITUAL

"Iane, Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva, Aesculapi,
Apollo Medice,
Lares, Manes, Penates,
Omnes Di Immortales quocumque nomine:
si quidquam vobis in hac caerimonia displicuit,
hoc vino libando
veniam peto
et vitium meum expio."

Ianus, Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva, Aesculapius,
Healing Apollo,
Lares, Manes, Penates,
All Gods Immortal, by whichever name:
if something in this ceremony was unpleasant to you,
by this wine
I do apologize
and expiate my mistake.

(Wine is sacrificed.)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90867 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Improv Poetry July 6th-7th Ludi Apollinares
Sta.Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.


Greetings! In honor of the Ludi Apollinares for today and tomorrow we will
be hosting Improv Poetry at the Muses List.

We welcome past participants and those that are new to grab their quill
along with their bottle of creativity and simply create create create.

This time around there is a central theme "Apollo & The Nine Muses"
anything that is in association with them. (Aeternia would love to see
some Latona & Diana themed poetry)

I will be posting details and a refresher course on how Improv Poetry is
done. If you are shy you can always contact me privately at the following
e-mail address: lorkhanysdrow@...

Also the Mistress of the Golden Quill our beloved C. Maria Caeca has
confirmed her attendance, so that in itself should bring in a crowd :-)

Here is the link to the Musarum List:

-- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ForTheMuses

I hope to see some cives join us over on Poets Row to celebrate the Ludi
Apollinares!

Valete bene,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia

"De mortuis nil nisi bonum"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90868 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares opening
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia C. Aemilio Crasso Praetoris Omnibusque S.P.D.

That was a lovely speech amice!

As a long standing citizen I can honestly say the best way for our newer
citizens to get involved more is by participating in our Ludi.

There will be a History quiz.

And...

There will also be a Mythology quiz presented by yours truly coming up
later this evening.

In the meanwhile the entire Praetura encourages citizens to post their
works of Apollo.

It can be a poem, a prayer/dedication, play, sonnet, parody, or even a song.

The god Apollo was a deity known for being the Patron god of the Arts and
creativity.

So lets try to be as creative as possible.

I shall be posting a new original poem momentarily. I don't want to be the
only one swimming these waters alone.

Happy Musings to all!

Valete bene,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia




On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 1:49 AM, Aemilius Crassus <
c.aemilius.crassus@...
--
"De mortuis nil nisi bonum"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90869 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Ludi Apollinares 2766 Poem
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

Momentarily became a few moments later.

The following selection is a new composition I composed specifically for
this years Ludi Apollinares.

If you have noticed I am quite fond of writing about Apollo in pairing with
his sibling. :-)

Please enjoy the following selection.

Valete bene,
Aeternia



*
*
*The Day the Sun Stood Still 07/04/2013*

Outside the look world looks frozen,
the sky along with the clouds suspended upon the aethers,
Together held frozen in place,
Sunbeams glow with ethereal radiance.

Its rays casts shadows upon the open ground,
As if for a moment indecisioned,
This was the day that the sun stood still,
Apollo beckons away the sun,
to welcome his sister the moon.

©2013 Sta.Cornelia Aeternia


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90870 From: Chip Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Welcome back Triari
Salvete,

Hello everyone! I am glad to be back. My love of all things Roman has overtaken me again. LOL! Not to mention I'm rusty on my Latin greetings and various affairs of State.

I look forward to being active again.

Thanks, Lentulus and Crassus, for your kind words of welcome once again.

Valete optime,

L. Vitellius Triarius
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90871 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Welcome back Triari
Salve Triari

Indeed, welcome back.

Optime vale
C. Iulius Caesar


________________________________
From: Chip <jfhatcher3@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 2:52 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Welcome back Triari



 
Salvete,

Hello everyone! I am glad to be back. My love of all things Roman has overtaken me again. LOL! Not to mention I'm rusty on my Latin greetings and various affairs of State.

I look forward to being active again.

Thanks, Lentulus and Crassus, for your kind words of welcome once again.

Valete optime,

L. Vitellius Triarius




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90872 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Welcome back Triari
SALVE TRIARI!

And welcome from my part, too, old friend!

VALE,
Sabinus
 
"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius


________________________________
From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 3:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Welcome back Triari



 
Salve Triari

Indeed, welcome back.

Optime vale
C. Iulius Caesar

________________________________
From: Chip <jfhatcher3@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 2:52 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Welcome back Triari


 
Salvete,

Hello everyone! I am glad to be back. My love of all things Roman has overtaken me again. LOL! Not to mention I'm rusty on my Latin greetings and various affairs of State.

I look forward to being active again.

Thanks, Lentulus and Crassus, for your kind words of welcome once again.

Valete optime,

L. Vitellius Triarius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90873 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Welcome back Triari
Salve Triari

That would be Cn. Iulius ;) Typing too fast... 

Have you got control still of Mons Aventinus and Romanspace? I think those were both yours?

Vale bene
Caesar
________________________________
From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Welcome back Triari




Salve Triari

Indeed, welcome back.

Optime vale
C. Iulius Caesar

________________________________
From: Chip <jfhatcher3@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 2:52 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Welcome back Triari



Salvete,

Hello everyone!  I am glad to be back.  My love of all things Roman has overtaken me again. LOL! Not to mention I'm rusty on my Latin greetings and various affairs of State.

I look forward to being active again.

Thanks, Lentulus and Crassus, for your kind words of welcome once again.

Valete optime,

L. Vitellius Triarius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


   
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90874 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Welcome back Triari
Yeah, if I can find the passwords...LOL!  I'll look and see what's up with them.



________________________________
From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 6:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Welcome back Triari


 

Salve Triari

That would be Cn. Iulius ;) Typing too fast... 

Have you got control still of Mons Aventinus and Romanspace? I think those were both yours?

Vale bene
Caesar
________________________________
From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <mailto:gn_iulius_caesar%40yahoo.com To: "mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 4:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Welcome back Triari

Salve Triari

Indeed, welcome back.

Optime vale
C. Iulius Caesar

________________________________
From: Chip <mailto:jfhatcher3%40yahoo.com To: mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 2:52 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Welcome back Triari

Salvete,

Hello everyone!  I am glad to be back.  My love of all things Roman has overtaken me again. LOL! Not to mention I'm rusty on my Latin greetings and various affairs of State.

I look forward to being active again.

Thanks, Lentulus and Crassus, for your kind words of welcome once again.

Valete optime,

L. Vitellius Triarius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

   



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90875 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Welcome back Triari
Ave!

Welcome back! Glad you have returned! :)

Vale,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90876 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Ludi Apolinares, musica!
Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

I will be posting links to appropriate music (mostly ancient Roman, but I
reserve the right to sneak in some surprises) and art to the list. Since
this list doesn't allow attachments, you'll have to follow the electronic
bread crumbs, but I think you find it worth your effort!

So, for your evening's (or mornings) enjoyment,

1.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rzTp_puKBw&list=PL7368668FF4CE7534&index=4

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZbW_b_gM6Rk&list=PL7368668FF4CE7534

More in a bit!

Valete quam optime!
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90877 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Ludi Apollinares: poetry offering
Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

As part of our Ludi celebrations, we encourage citizens to share their
artistic endeavors. This isn't a contest, just a chance to celebrate Apollo
through the written word, graphic art or music. Since the list doesn't
allow attachments, if you'd like to share artwork, photography or music,
please post a link we can follow to view it.

To get things started, I offer you this poem.

I am the tool; the sacrifice:
My essence flows from me
In every breath to be replaced
With his brilliant, divine essence.
I fall gently back into Golden arms,
A dream of adoration, of more beauty
Than the soul can hold. Words flow
Through me, my voice, but not my mind.
I do not know them, will not remember them,
They are not for me, but for one who comes
Seeking the wisdom of Great Apollo.
I am the tool; the sacrifice: each breath
Takes a bit of my life with it, and I know
How my usefulness will end. I will be replaced
But, while I serve, this is my life, my joy, my love.

C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90878 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: and one more ..
Salvete omnes!

One more for your delectation ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJLXyBzMci0

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90879 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: poetry offering
Salvete omnes,
 
I decided to post this poem, which was recently written by our 13-yr-old son, and which is now currently in the running as a national finalist in the American Library of Poetry 2013 Student Poetry Contest (Got the letter a few days ago!).  I think it is fairly good for a 13-yr-old.  We hope you enjoy it.
 
Valete,
 
L. Vitellius Triarius
 
**************************************************
 
WHISPERS OF THE TREES
 
As the trampled path gives way to the shadowed forest,
The illusion of reality fades to reveal the secrets of ancient lore.
Among the trees I walk, and I am embraced by their powers of old.
And lo, I, the mortal man, now hear the whispers of the trees.
 
Forgotten wisdom and mighty commandments hinted in the wind,
And I walk the path of the twisted root to now heed nature’s way of knowing.
Forever I shall walk from the Eastern Dawn to the Western Dusk to know the hidden truth.
And lo, I, the mortal man, now hear the whispers of the trees.
 
At the heart of this boundless forest, I now halt my unceasing march.
The wind is silenced here, and the whispers are no longer drowned.
Sounds are forming rhythms, rhythms are forming words, and now great knowledge and wisdom is becoming clear.
And lo, I, the mortal man, now hear the whispers of the trees.
 
Now I know the words of the trees, understand their eldest message.
They tell me of an ancient place, where the forces of old were formed;
Where the Earth and Sky once met, and the unknown became the known.
And lo, I, the mortal man, now hear the whispers of the trees.
 
The trees now turn their faces from me, and now their words have stolen away.
But now the wind is kind, and gifts to me a new curiosity.
I depart from the forest, once more upon the trampled path, and the wisdom of the trees has faded from my mind.
And lo, I, the mortal man, shall never again hear the whispers of the trees.

By: Triarius the Younger
 
(Copyright©2013 James F. Hatcher IV)
 

________________________________
From: cmc <c.mariacaeca@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com; Nova_roma_@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 6, 2013 7:14 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Ludi Apollinares: poetry offering


 

Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

As part of our Ludi celebrations, we encourage citizens to share their
artistic endeavors. This isn't a contest, just a chance to celebrate Apollo
through the written word, graphic art or music. Since the list doesn't
allow attachments, if you'd like to share artwork, photography or music,
please post a link we can follow to view it.

To get things started, I offer you this poem.

I am the tool; the sacrifice:
My essence flows from me
In every breath to be replaced
With his brilliant, divine essence.
I fall gently back into Golden arms,
A dream of adoration, of more beauty
Than the soul can hold. Words flow
Through me, my voice, but not my mind.
I do not know them, will not remember them,
They are not for me, but for one who comes
Seeking the wisdom of Great Apollo.
I am the tool; the sacrifice: each breath
Takes a bit of my life with it, and I know
How my usefulness will end. I will be replaced
But, while I serve, this is my life, my joy, my love.

C. Maria Caeca




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90880 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: poetry offering
Salve Triarius et Salvete Omnes,

That was stunning. When he is older standing invite to the Muses List for
your little one...

Wow.

Just wow.

Go Triarius Minor!


Valete bene,
Aeternia



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90881 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: poetry offering
Salve Triari!



That is lovely! It certainly deserves the recognition it is getting!
Thanks for sharing this with us.



Vale quam optime!

C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90882 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares 2766 Poem
Salve amica,

Very beautiful, I like very much the final with Apollo waiting to welcome
his sister.

Vale optime,
Crassus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90883 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apolinares, musica!
Salvete,

These were both rocking Caeca, especially the second one.

Thank you for sharing the links

Valete bene,
Aeternia


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90884 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Welcome back Triari
Caninus Triario sal.

Welcome back! Factio Veneta salutes you and thanks you for returning to
Nova Roma and Veneta.

I see you have two email accounts that seem to be active now. However,
your
former Yahoo account listed as owner for the factioveneta Yahoo group
appears to
have been terminated. The factioveneta group is thus operating without
an owner.
I will add you as a moderator - just let me know what account you want
to use. I
will add a few more moderators as well so we do not end up in the same
situation
again with no active moderators for the group.

I will also open a ticket with Yahoo to see if there is any way they can
transfer ownership of factioveneta from your old Yahoo account to your
new
account.

Once you are ready, you can take over as Dominus Factionis and we can
discuss
resurrecting the munera for Veneta. I have a new welcome file that will
need to
be edited and there is a new banner done in the traditional sea blue for
Veneta
in the files section as well.

I have been using m.pompeius@... for Factio Veneta but you will
see me
almost everywhere else as caninus@...

Fac valeas!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!





-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Welcome back Triari
From: Aemilius Crassus <c.aemilius.crassus@... Date: Sat, July 06, 2013 12:53 am
To: Nova-Roma <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Salve Triari,

I'm very happy to see you back amice. I hope everything is well with
you
and your family.

Vale optime,
Crassus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90885 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: [Nova_roma_] and one more ..
Salvete,

Synaulia. Excellent choice!

Valete bene,
Aeternia


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90886 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: poetry offering
Salve Triari,

Amazing amice, my congratulations to your son, it is a very powerful poem.
If he is writing like this at 13 I want very much to see what he will be
writing when he will be older.

Vale optime,
Crassus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90887 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: [Nova_roma_] Ludi Apollinares: poetry offering
Sta.Cornelia Aeternia C. Mariae Caecae Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

What Caeca did not mention is this piece is directly from our current round
of Improv Poetry.r

After reading this a third time I'm even more in love with this.

Powerful and Invocative.

Many kudos Caeca to you and your golden quill.

Valete bene,
Aeternia


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90888 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares 2766 Poem
Salve amice,

In gratitude in definite gratitude.

Vale quam Optime,
Aeternia


On Sat, Jul 6, 2013 at 4:46 PM, Aemilius Crassus <
c.aemilius.crassus@...
--
"De mortuis nil nisi bonum"


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90889 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-06
Subject: Ludi Apollinares 2766-Certamen Mythologicum "Mythology Quiz" (DIes 1
Sta.Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

Ah another fine opening to a great Ludi, and what better to pair it with
than a Mythology Quiz?

It's that time again Omnes.

Here are the questions to the first day's Mythology Quiz. All winners will
be announced after the Ludi has closed, so if you don't answer them today
you still have time.

Submit all answers to the following e-mail address:
Syrenslullaby@... Subject Header: Mythology Quiz

DO NOT post answers to the list but private only.

Bona Fortuna (Good luck ) to all the participants. Please see the
questions below.

Valete bene,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia (Scriba Praetoris)

*
*
*Mythology Quiz (Dies/Day1)*

1. What was the name of the Island that Apollo was born on?
2. Name the poet who wrote a Hymn about Apollo in post classical Literature.
3. The Greek counterpart of Apollo's Twin sister was?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90890 From: James Mathews Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: The Roman Bridge, Pont Julien
Greetings All;

Just a note to let you know that I have uploaded a drawing of the
subject bridge into my Roman Studies Blog:

http://RomanStudies.blogspot.com

Please enjoy!

Respectfully;

Marcus Audens
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90891 From: jirirys Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Nova Roma Pannonia - Regio Marcomannia
New Facebook page of Regio Marcomannia in Nova Roma Pannonia. It is territory of Czech Republic and Slovak Republic.
Please like this!

https://www.facebook.com/NovaRomaRegioMarcommania

Optime vale!

Tiberius Iulius Nerva
Praefectus Civitatis Boihaemi
Nova Roma Pannonia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90892 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Nova Roma Pannonia - Regio Marcomannia
C. Maria Caeca Ti. Julio Nervae S. P. D.



Please allow me to congratulate you on your new position, and all involved
on Nova Roma's newest Regio! I look forward to seeing it grow and flourish,
and in time, I hope we will gain a new Provincia. I will, of course, be
visiting your Facebook page, and "liking" it!



Vale quam optime!

C. Maria Caeca





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90893 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

I actually started this last night, so I thought I'd share it now. Hope you
enjoy!

Dawn Pompa

In darkness, the first flute sounds
Pure notes scything through the fleeing night
Gently the daughters of dawn come dancing,
Veiled in opalescent light, greeted by
Feathered musicians, each playing his own
Song: an undisciplined, exuberant, harmonious chorus
That draws the light and calls Aurelia
And her maidens, draped in rose, in mauve
In gold. They come, heralds of the great god
Who rises slowly, in resplendent majesty.
In a timeless moment of silence, Apollo takes
The sky, that the land may be filled with light.

Valete quam optime!
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90894 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Laterensis Caecae omnibusque sal.

I very much enjoyed reading that, thank you for sharing.  I wish I had something to share, but alas, the writing bug doesn't bite nearly so often as when I was younger.

Di vos incolumes custodiant!

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90895 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Salve Laterense!



Thank you .but, you know, we'd love to see artwork or photography, or
pictures of anything you've made, as well. Just send a link that will take
us to a site where we can view and enjoy such things! Apollo is, after, the
patron of *all* the muses, and therefore, all creative endeavors fall under
his domain, and should be celebrated at this time!



Vale et valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90896 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Salvete Omnes,

As I was stating on the Muses List, I somehow missed the transition of
Caeca's quill going from golden to straight platinum.

Such a beautiful tapestry of words. That you for sharing this lovely prose.

Laterensis, Caeca is absolutely correct. If writing may not be your
niche, there are others forms of inspiration to share with us as well.


Valete bene,
Aeternia



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90897 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
There's still some time, so I'll give it a little thought and see if I can come up with something.  No guarantees, though.  In my experience, inspiration can't be forced.

Laterensis

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90898 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Salve Laterense!



Well, you know, schedules and deadlines are relative, and could, given the
right circumstances, become rather flexible!



Vale bene!

C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90899 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90900 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Salve Scholastica!



Plurimam Gratias, Magistra! (many thanks, teacher).



Vale bene!

C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90901 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Classic gaming in Latin
C. Decius Laterensis omnibus S.P.D.

One of my other interests is classic gaming, mostly 80s and 90s.  Normally, that's a hobby that doesn't have much in common with my interest in Rome.  Today, though, I stumbled onto something that might be of interest here.  Sombody translated "The Legend of Zelda", "Zelda II - The Adventure of Link" and "Final Fantasy" for the NES into Latin.  There's also a partially completed (about 65%) translation of "Final Fantasy VI" for the SNES.  They're definately worth looking into if you like old video games and can read Latin.

Here's an article with screenshots of three of the games:

geekologie.com/2009/02/finally-zelda-ii-has-been-tran.php

And here's a page where you can download the patches.  That site should have instructions on what to do with the patches if you're new to console emulation.

www.romhacking.net/?page=translations&genre=&platform=&status=&languageid=20&perpage=20&title=&author=&transsearch=Go

Di vos incolumes custodiant!

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90902 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Classic gaming in Latin
Salve Laterensis et Salvete Omnes,

Someone translated ZELDA into Latin? Oh this is wonderful.

No possibility on Zelda: Ocarina of Time or Mask of Majora?

FF (Final Fantaasy series) isn't a bad either for those who are Latinists
and may be interested.

I must look at these links..

Thank you Laterensis!

Valete bene,
Aeternia



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90903 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2013-07-07
Subject: Re: Hiatus (3 weeks)
Salvete omnes,

I just wanted to let everyone know that I have returned safely from my
trip. and I am again available if anyone has need of me. I have entered my
votes for the current session of the Senate, and hope to be enjoying the
Ludi Apollinares as soon as I go through my backlog of messages and such .
. .

Valete optime!

On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:00 AM, Gaius Tullius Valerianus <
gaius.tullius.valerianus@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90904 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Censorial Edict - Nova Roman census 2766 A.U.C.
Ti. Galerius Paulinus censor Cn. Iulius Caesar censor sal.

CENSORIAL EDICT - NOVA ROMAN CENSUS 2766 A.U.C.

I. In accordance with the lex Fabia de censu ( http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Fabia_de_censu_(Nova_Roma) ) the Nova Roman census will be conducted between July 8th and October 27th 2766 A.U.C. in order to determine the number of active and inactive Nova Roman citizens. Failure to respond, where required to do so, will result in a citizen being recorded as inactive. Citizens are urged to respond promptly to census inquiries. 

II. Due to the automatic update function of the Album Civium, as per section III.A.1 Lex Fabia de censu, that was available on the "in-house" Nova Roman cista not being available on the "votingplace" system, citizens who voted in the elections of December 2765 A.U.C. MUST still respond to the census and not rely on the fact that they voted to update their census status.

III. Those citizens who in this current tax year have paid the Nova Roman tax and are certified as thereby assidui by the Chief Financial Officer, will not be contacted as their payment sets their census status to active. 

IV. Provincial governors, or legates in the absence of a governor, will be required to attempt to contact those inactive citizens that the censors notify them of, after efforts by the censors to establish contact with such persons have failed. Citizens are urged to log into their Nova Roman album civium account, (access your page in the album civium and log in through the log in boxes at the top right of your page) and check that the email address, street address and telephone number are correct. If not please contact the censors to update those details that are incorrect.

VI. . At the end of the Census, postage or telephone expenses incurred by the governor, or legate,  will be reimbursed. All such payments or credits shall be disbursed in exchange for receipts, receipt copies and bills (if it is not possible to obtain receipts) and must be approved by the Senate. In respect of surface mail costs, courier services, recorded delivery, expedited or special delivery mail should not be used as these costs will not be reimbursed. Standard surface mail only is to be employed for this purpose.

VII. Reimbursement shall be by either a monetary payment or a tax credit, and the censors shall choose which method, after consultation with, and upon the advice of, the Chief Financial Officer.

VIII. Details of the census will be recorded and updated on this page of the Nova Roman wiki: http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Census_MMDCCLXVI. Provision will be made for citizens to self-register on this page and citizens will be notified when this stage commences. Audits of entries on this page will be conducted to ensure that the registration of a named citizen has been performed on his/her own Nova Roman wiki account. Citizens must only register themselves on the aforementioned page. 

IX. Citizens who have legal and lawful potestas over another citizen, as per the lex Equitia familiaris ( http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Equitia_familiaris_(Nova_Roma) ), must email Cn. Iulius Caesar direct to register such a dependent.

X. All provincial governors, or legates in the absence of a governor, are required to post this notice to any provincial Yahoo list, or other form of Nova Roman communication in regular use by citizens within their province. 

Optime valete
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90905 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: ATTN: Factio Albata!
Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

This is to advise all Factio Albatae that we need your entries for the race
coming up very soon. We need 2 entries (well, 1, since I will be submitting
an entry), horse and jockey, with tactics. Please either submit your entry
to the Praetor with a copy to me or directly to me, so I can submit it to
the Praetor.

Let's show Nova Roma how races, *all* races, are won, shall we?

Albata Victoria! Semper Albata!

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90906 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Ludi Apollinares: another poem
Omnibus in Foro S. P. D.

I found this hiding in a folder I forgot even existed, and I posted it some
time ago, for another Ludi Apollinares, I think ...but I've always rather
liked this one, so I'm going to take the liberty of re-posting it.

In Praise of Apollo

When you, Glorious One, Beautiful One,
Lay your gleaming hands upon your golden lyre
The music that flows from it, from you,
Teaches birds their rightful songs .
Makes water droplets dance in joyous sparkles .
Strokes the meanest streets with loveliness .
Draws the hues of roses and of lilies
Into trembling, vibrant richness .

Fills the hearts of children with wondering laughter .
Brushes the faces of all men and all women with a shadow of your own
radiance .
Warms the stone of walls,
Where warm furred cats sleep, and lovers sit together .

Heals the hurts of dark loneliness
Replaces fear with hope,
Restlessness with rest,
Enmity with accord

For with your music, you bestow all living things
With the beneficence of your undying light.

C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90907 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Re: ATTN: Factio Albata!
Salvete Albatians!
 
Yes...The Albata Horse White-Washers (AHWW, as in "we lost again"...) should join the races, because VENETA needs some good easy practice opponents.
 
Oh, BTW, the Veneta Stables has some extra buckets of white-wash on sale at 5 denarii per pail.  You all will need to buy some to patch up your chariots for the next chariot races...you know...to cover the spina dents/scratches and dirt stains left from the track from following the Veneta Chariots (hehehe).
 
Also, be advised that Veneta horses DO run faster when not hooked to chariots...
 
Good racing...and remember to bring and wear belts, so you won't fall off...and bring a medicus who knows how to apply bandages...just in case...you know...
 
Valete,
 
L. Vitellius Triarius
Domins factionis veneta


________________________________
From: cmc <c.mariacaeca@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 1:30 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] ATTN: Factio Albata!


 

Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

This is to advise all Factio Albatae that we need your entries for the race
coming up very soon. We need 2 entries (well, 1, since I will be submitting
an entry), horse and jockey, with tactics. Please either submit your entry
to the Praetor with a copy to me or directly to me, so I can submit it to
the Praetor.

Let's show Nova Roma how races, *all* races, are won, shall we?

Albata Victoria! Semper Albata!

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90908 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Re: ATTN: Factio Albata!
Salvete Venetae!



Ah, fine words, Veneta .but you know how much words count .and, since your
jockeys will soon be eating Albata's dust, you might want to be sure they
have enough water for their parched throats! As to whitewash .well, now .I
thought *that* was for fences! But don't worry, Albata will show you the
way once we reach the track ..just follow along behind us, and you'll reach
the finish line . eventually!



Albata Victoria! Semper Albata!



C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90909 From: desneau99 Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Salve to all,

I'm a new Nova Roma citizen in Vancouver. I'm very pleased to meet you.

I'm very interested in the Ludi and the poetry and music sharing. Please excuse me for asking, and I should know this being a beginning archaeologist but are the Ludi only on July 6? I was very delighted to read some of the poetry. I'd have liked to have shared something but need to get used first to the style of the writing (and I've not written poetry for a little while!). I have written music before which sounds ancient, but perhaps I am a little late?

M. Julia Aquila

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90910 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
C. Decius Laterensis M. Juliae Aquliae omnibusque S.P.D.

The ludi run until the 13th, so you've got time.

Di vos incolumes custodiant!

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90911 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Salve Aquila,

Welcome to Nova Roma! You have time to participate in the Ludi activities.

We are currently running Improv Poetry on another list. It gives you time to brush up on your poetry writing :-)

Valete bene,
Aeternia

Sent from my iPhone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90912 From: C. Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Ludi Apollinares - Horse race
C. Aemilius Crassus Quiritibus SPD,

I hope everyone is enjoying the Ludi Apollinares so far. We are having
great poems and more will come for sure as also other type of works.

I would like to thank all who have participated in the Ludi so far.

Meanwhile I have updated the Ludi page with the rules for the horse
race. The page can be found at:

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Ludi_Apollinares_2766_AUC

Valete optime.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90913 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Re: ATTN: Factio Albata!
Oh...no water for the dust!  Falernian, my friend, Falernian!
 
LVT


________________________________
From: cmc <c.mariacaeca@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 6:15 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] ATTN: Factio Albata!


 

Salvete Venetae!

Ah, fine words, Veneta .but you know how much words count .and, since your
jockeys will soon be eating Albata's dust, you might want to be sure they
have enough water for their parched throats! As to whitewash .well, now .I
thought *that* was for fences! But don't worry, Albata will show you the
way once we reach the track ..just follow along behind us, and you'll reach
the finish line . eventually!

Albata Victoria! Semper Albata!

C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90914 From: Elizabeth Legge Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem
Salve, Aeternia!

Thank you for your message. I'm happy to be part of Nova Roma. I'll check out your improve poetry list as well!




M. Julia Aquila Agrippa

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: syrenslullaby@...
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 2013 15:57:09 -0700
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Ludi Apollinares: new poem


























Salve Aquila,



Welcome to Nova Roma! You have time to participate in the Ludi activities.



We are currently running Improv Poetry on another list. It gives you time to brush up on your poetry writing :-)



Valete bene,

Aeternia



Sent from my iPhone



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90915 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-08
Subject: another gem from the Roma Nova list!
Omnibus in Foro S. P. D.

When I asked Vindex if I could post a translation of one of his posts, not
only did he say yes, but told me I didn't need to ask each time, bless him!
This sounds really nice, and I think there are English translations on the
site for our convenience. Enjoy!

I remember a wonderful visit made long ago with friends of underground Rome
to Vicus Caprarius "water city" in front of the Trevi Fountain, I cannot
tell you that you will experience the same feelings browsing this site
http://www. imagoromae.com / trevi_it.ashx # 1 but surely, for the quality
of the photos and description for the accuracy of the archaeological
history, you seem to be there;-). You will also find other articles with
photographs and wonderful with English translation, good navigation.
Ahhhhh ... I forgot here you will find the contact details for a possible
your visit when you are in the City:
http://www.romeguide.it/FILES/romapoconota/vicuscaprarius.htm

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90916 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: LUDI APOLLINARES 2766 - HISTORICAL QUIZ
Salvete omnes!

Welcome back to Rome where the first bout of the Historical quiz has now ended.

We have five contestants:-

Appia Gratia Avita
M. Martianus Lupus
M. Pompeius Caninus
Publius Porcius Licinus
Marcus Prometheus

Greetings to those we know well, and a special welcome to our newer citizens taking part for their first time.

All are pretty much agreed on the answers, and there is little to choose between them at this first stage. But it is still early in the race, and who can tell what the next lap will throw up.

So far I think they are all fairly level, but there is a hint of a bonus for one player if one is needed at the end.

So here are the answers. I hope that all of you who read this list are playing along too, and will enjoy seeing a little of the history of these Ludi as revealed in the quiz.

1. In what year were the Ludi Apollinares first held in ancient Rome?

The Ludi Apollinares were first held in 542 auc (212 BC).

2. To protect against what different events were they held?

The games were first held to obtain the aid of Apollo in expelling the Carthaginians from Roman lands. But the question asks about different events, and during the history of the games their purpose broadened to include preserving the Republic from all dangers, to protect human life during the hottest days of summer, and to protect against plague. We see Apollo being honoured by the games so that he might bring his protection against a range of perils.

3. What dark days in Roman history were taking place at the time of the first Ludi Apollinares?

Hannibal's army was ravaging Italy during the Second Punic War.

Please stay tuned as the second set of questions will be posted here very shortly.

Valete omnes!
Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90917 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: LUDI APOLLINARES 2766 - HISTORICAL QUIZ
Salvete omnes!

It is the hottest part of the day here in Rome, and the quiz contestants are trying to keep cool. Is it the heat of the day or the heat of the challenge that they are contending against?

Well. here we go with the second bout of the quiz, and this time we have 4 questions, starting with number 4 in the overall series.

4. The contestants all correctly answered that these Ludi were first held at the time of the Second Punic War. How many wars were there against this Roman enemy?

5. Name the chief commander, on each side, at the end of the first of these wars?

6. Where were the instructions for setting up these games found?

7. Where in Rome were these games first held?

You all have until this time on Friday to send your answers to me at the following email address:-

************************************************
jbshr1pwa@...

************************************************

Please do NOT reply to this message or post your answers to any other address but this one.

Valete omnes!
Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90918 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Caninus Omnibus in Foro sal:

Please join me in wishing Tiberius Galerius Paulinus and Lucius Ulpius
Atellus the best of good luck and the blessings of Fortuna as they
prepare their horses and jockeys for the Ludi Apollinares race at the
end of the week.

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus enters his horse Maximus Oblivius with jockey
Crixius the Gaul

Lucius Ulpius Atellus enters his horse Neptunnus' Wrath with jockey
Artorius Britannicus

VENETI VINCENT

M. Pompeius Caninus
Factio Veneta
Vivat Nova Roma!



Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90919 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Avete!
 
Veneta and prospective fans:
 
The large blue balloon carts and pom-pom stands will be set up out side the Circus and Veneta Stables four hours before race time. We will also have the Falernian hospitality stands operating as well.  Go Blues!
 
Valete,
Triarius


________________________________
From: M. Pompeius Caninus <caninus@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 2:47 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race


 

Caninus Omnibus in Foro sal:

Please join me in wishing Tiberius Galerius Paulinus and Lucius Ulpius
Atellus the best of good luck and the blessings of Fortuna as they
prepare their horses and jockeys for the Ludi Apollinares race at the
end of the week.

Tiberius Galerius Paulinus enters his horse Maximus Oblivius with jockey
Crixius the Gaul

Lucius Ulpius Atellus enters his horse Neptunnus' Wrath with jockey
Artorius Britannicus

VENETI VINCENT

M. Pompeius Caninus
Factio Veneta
Vivat Nova Roma!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90920 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Salvete,

GO BLUES!!!!!

Valete bene,
Aeternia

Sent from my iPhone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90921 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Ludi Apollinares: musica!
Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

Here is some music for your pleasure, with even a bit of poetry at the
beginning. This is a long video, so pour yourselves a glass of Falernian
(or something equally appropriate) and kick back and enjoy this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB9ZZ5V1DX8

More later!
Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90922 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Salvete omnes!



Well, now, you will be charmed and amazed by the Albata entries! You'll
have to wait to *really* see them until they've won, of course, because on
the track, they will be a speeding blur .but they are *really* special, for
all sorts of reasons!



BTW, the Albata hospitality pavilion will be open for 4 hours prior to the
race, and we will be serving all sorts of goodies, including, of course, the
very finest Falernian, but also some lovely beverages imported from Gaul,
and even from Britania and we are negotiating, even as I speak, for a drink
from Parthia that is supposed to be like flower flavored lightning!



Oh, and, of course, there *will* be a victory party to celebrate Albata's
victory. All are invited, even Veneta! J.



Valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90923 From: Elizabeth Legge Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: musica!
Mirabilis!

I only heard a part so far, I have to rush to meet a client, but it is beautiful. I will listen to the rest while studying, when I return.

Thank you very much!




Aquila

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com; Nova_roma_@yahoogroups.com
From: c.mariacaeca@...
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 18:18:52 -0400
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Ludi Apollinares: musica!


























Omnibus in foro S. P. D.



Here is some music for your pleasure, with even a bit of poetry at the

beginning. This is a long video, so pour yourselves a glass of Falernian

(or something equally appropriate) and kick back and enjoy this!



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB9ZZ5V1DX8



More later!

Valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90924 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Salvete omnes!

I do believe she speaks of that famous Parthian brew, made by Popcornius Suttonus, called Albatus Lighteningus!  I've had plenty of it, and Veneta will definitely be there!
 
Triarius

________________________________
From: cmc <c.mariacaeca@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 6:32 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race


 

Salvete omnes!

Well, now, you will be charmed and amazed by the Albata entries! You'll
have to wait to *really* see them until they've won, of course, because on
the track, they will be a speeding blur .but they are *really* special, for
all sorts of reasons!

BTW, the Albata hospitality pavilion will be open for 4 hours prior to the
race, and we will be serving all sorts of goodies, including, of course, the
very finest Falernian, but also some lovely beverages imported from Gaul,
and even from Britania and we are negotiating, even as I speak, for a drink
from Parthia that is supposed to be like flower flavored lightning!

Oh, and, of course, there *will* be a victory party to celebrate Albata's
victory. All are invited, even Veneta! J.

Valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90925 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares: musica!
Salve Aquila!

And, by the time you return, there will probably be even more for you! In
fact ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COpe-Nq6QaY

Vale et valete!
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90926 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Ludi Apolinares: more music!
Salvete!

As an accompiment to whatever you happened to be doing ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbobyIEt9Rc

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90927 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Salvete,

Thanks for the support.

When the Albata finally cross the finish they'll be Factio Fusca from eating our dust.

Go Blues!!!

Valete Omnes,

Atellus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90928 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Salvete Omnes!



If so ..it will be because our jockeys got so bored waiting for Veneta that
they ran around the track again, just to have something to do, and *still*
made it back before anyone else crossed the finish line the *first* time!



Albata Victoria! Semper Albata!



C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90929 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
My, what an active imagination you've got!  Everybody knows that Albata is going to win.  After it's over, I'll have someone bring you an amphora of Falernian so we can toast the victory of the Whites.

Laterensis

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90930 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Salvete,

You mean to tell me that Praeturan Scribes can participate in the race?

I didn't know this....

In any case Go Blues!!!

Valete bene,
Aeternia

Sent from my iPhone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90931 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Salve Aeternia!



Yes, the Praetor announced that we could participate some time ago on the
Praetores list.



C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90932 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
Salve Caeca,

Now that I am thinking about he did make that announcement.

Sorry 12 hr workshift on four hours of sleep will cause brain to fog.

Valete bene,
Aeternia




Sent from my iPhone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90933 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Ludi Apolinares: more music!
Laterensis Caecae omnibusque sal.

I rather enjoyed that, thank you for sharing.  Is that an accurate rendition of how Roman music sounded, or is it just the artist's best guess?

Optime valete!

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90934 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Ludi Apolinares: more music!
Salve Laterense!



I think the intent was as successful a recreation as possible, but I have no
idea how accurate it actually is. Vale bene!



C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90935 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Ludi Apolinares: more music!
Now, I'm wondering if the Romans had any form of musical notation and if they left anything for us.  Now I've got to look into it.

Laterensis

Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90936 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
How can you count 2nd place as a victory? I'll not turn down Falernian though. So, come over to our winner circle and we'll have that drink.

Atellus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90937 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race
So will too much Falernina...LOL!



________________________________
From: Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 9:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Factio Veneta Entries for the Horse Race


 

Salve Caeca,

Now that I am thinking about he did make that announcement.

Sorry 12 hr workshift on four hours of sleep will cause brain to fog.

Valete bene,
Aeternia

Sent from my iPhone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90938 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Ludi: one of the promised surprises!
Salvete Omnes!

For a change of ... pace,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD3VsesSBsw

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca, looking most mischievous!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90939 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Ludi Apollinares 2766- Certamen Mythologicum "Mythology Quiz" (Dies
Sta.Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.


It's that time again Omnes.

Here are the questions to the first day's Mythology Quiz. All winners will
be announced after the Ludi has closed, so if you don't answer them today
you still have time.

Submit all answers to the following e-mail address:
Syrenslullaby@... Subject
Header: Mythology Quiz

DO NOT post answers to the list but private only.

Bona Fortuna (Good luck ) to all the participants. Please see the
questions below.

Valete bene,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia (Scriba Praetoris)

*Mythology Quiz (Dies/Day2)*
4.Which mythical bird was sacred to Apollo?
5.How many muses did Apollo have offspring with? Name which Muses.
6. In Celtic Mythology which animal is associated with Apollo?


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90940 From: Elizabeth Legge Date: 2013-07-09
Subject: Re: Ludi: one of the promised surprises!
Pulcherrimam!




Aquila

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com; Nova_roma_@yahoogroups.com
From: c.mariacaeca@...
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 23:05:22 -0400
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Ludi: one of the promised surprises!


























Salvete Omnes!



For a change of ... pace,



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GD3VsesSBsw



Valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca, looking most mischievous!



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90941 From: Elizabeth Legge Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apolinares: more music!
They did, but according to what I've read, there is only one piece remaining and that was is of dubious authenticity. I really hope I am mistaken about this... There are at least 60 ancient Greek pieces (with musical notes) remaining though, and other pieces of similar periods (e.g. Very early medieval? The periods blur in fact, so it is hard to say where Rome ends and the so-called Dark Ages begin) that help with reconstructions. I remember that my favourite composer, Miklos Rosza, did some ancient Roman musical reconstructions from pieces of similar eras and copying ancient instruments from tombstone engravings.




Julia Aquila

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: rajuc47@...
Date: Tue, 9 Jul 2013 19:40:00 -0700
Subject: Re: RE: [Nova-Roma] Ludi Apolinares: more music!


























Now, I'm wondering if the Romans had any form of musical notation and if they left anything for us. Now I've got to look into it.



Laterensis



Sent from Yahoo! Mail on Android



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90942 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Ludi Apollinares 2766: "A Game of Mottoes" (Parody/Play)
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

On the Praetores List our wonderful and most awesome Praetor asked for
plays to be submitted for this years Ludi Apollinares. Now I haven't
written a play for quite some time, but after one night of discussing my
favorite book series and now television show "A Game of Thrones". The idea
of mixing of AGOT and Nova Roma intrigued me and hence my muse gave birth
to this play.

Since "A Game of Thrones" is fast becoming a worldwide cultural phenomenon
quite a few of you will catch references from the book. Those of you who
are not familiar with the series, I strongly suggest you google info about
it.

I ask that you take this is what the play is supposed to be in HUMOR. A
parody is humor on a very high level, I know that there are those of you
who will not and will feel slighted. So I apologize deeply in advance,
maybe after this play people will think about what they say to each other.
I will simply leave it at that.

Right Disclaimers.

***Disclaimers***
1. This is to be taken in the context of HUMOR and Nothing but HUMOR so
gods help you
2. No there really isn't an Edict regarding Mottoes being mandatory for
every Gens in Nova Roma, That's completely fiction
3. I will respond to angry e-mails in the severity on which they are
received.

Otherwise enjoy the following Play:

Bonam Noctem,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia



*A GAME OF MOTTOES *

Prologue: In the spirit of the Ludi Apollinares and creatively keeping up
with the modern trends of �modernity�. The Consul of Nova Roma has issued
an Edict declaring that all Gentes must create their own mottoes. A
thoughtful gesture to be sure but would the rest of Nova Roma feel the
same? To test the waters so to speak, the Consul sends forth his newest
scribe to visit the Garden of the Matrons. Where no man is supposed to
enter, except who the Consul sends isn't really a man or is he?


*Act I: Scene I:*


Narrator: A nervous man steps in front of the sentry guards who supposedly
keep watch over the Garden of the Matrons. His bald head glistens with
sweat as he tries to adjust the overly long sleeves of his robe. The man's
voice comes out rather squeaky which causes the Sentry guards to laugh out
loud. Refusing him entry the bald headed man begs audience with Statia
Cornelia Aeternia. Hesitantly they agree and lead him inside the gates of
the beautiful garden and make him wait until Aeternia's arrival.


Aeternia who arrives but not alone with her is known constant companion
Tiberia Valeria Celeris and other young matrons.


Aeternia: (Taking on a look surprise at the bald headed man) Salve
stranger. May I ask who you are? And why are you here within the Garden of
Matrons? You can't be here I have a Vestal who is occupying these gardens.
If the Pontifex Maximus were to ever find out....


Celeris: He would actively try to do something. Why are you dressed like
that stranger?


Aeternia: Yes. Why are you dressed in that gown? Or is that a robe? Why
aren't you wearing normal men's clothing? Like a Toga?


The Stranger: Because I am a Eunuch Ma'am. I am neither man nor woman. In
between some would say. (As the stranger took a handkerchief from his long
sleeves to wipe the sweat off his forehead).



Narrator (pulls out a dictionary and reads out loud): *Definition of** **
EUNUCH-*

*1*

*:* a castrated man placed in charge of a harem or employed as a
chamberlain in a palace

*2*

*:* a man or boy deprived of the testes or external genitals

*3*

*:* one that lacks virility or
*power*<http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/eunuch#





Narrator: Aeternia & Celeris simply look at each other and shrug their
shoulders.



Aeternia: Why are you here Eunuch?


The Eunuch: I am here by request of my Employer, the Illustrious Lucius
Cornelius Sulla Felix, Consul of Nova Roma. I am to deliver this papyrus of
his latest Edict for you to read. (The Eunuch then gives the neatly wrapped
papyrus to Aeternia.)


Narrator: Very carefully both Aeternia and Celeris open the Papyrus.
Aeternia beckons the other matrons who have accompanied her to come closer
and read along.


Aeternia: (reads out loud so everyone can hear) Consular Edict On the
Mottoes of Gentes.. Hmm.. (Aeternia speedily reads through the complexity
of the legal jargons, paraphrases, and sub-articles.) It basically says
that every Gentes in Nova Roma must create their own Motto. I think this
was voted down in the Senate, so Sulla issues an Edict instead?


The Eunuch: Yes Ma'am.


Celeris: Is this the list?


The Eunuch: Yes Ma'am of Gens who have already created their mottoes.


Aeternia: Very well Eunuch you are hereby dismissed. You better leave
soon, the Magistra's Latin class for �Noble Ladies� is almost wrapping up.
If she were to see you things will become complicated, she will not
understand your appearance. No offense.


Narrator: The Eunuch makes no move to leave. Which causes irritation for
Aeternia.


Aeternia: Eunuch I said for you to leave. Else you will have angry Matrons
demanding whats left of your manhood.


The Eunuch: My employer the great Illustrious Consul Sulla has instructed
me not to leave until you have read the entire list. So therefore I must
remain until you do. (As the Eunuch gave a grim smile).


Celeris: Sulla is definitely paying this one well.


Aeternia: Indeed amica. Eunuch do you have a name?


The Eunuch: Alexious.


Aeternia: You're Sulla's minion alright. Very well Alexious I shall read
this silly list. Celeris would you like to start?


Narrator: Aeternia beckons the other matronly companions to stop giggling
at the Eunuch known as Alexious and to listen. Meanwhile what Aeternia and
her companions did not know that the Magistra's Latin class had wrapped up
their session. They were apparently enjoying tea with the Vestal C. Maria
Caeca and they could hear the exchange that was going on in the other part
of the garden.


Celeris: Gens Aemilia- �Ours will be the Fury�.


Aeternia: A good strong one, Go Crasse.


Celeris: Gens Iulia- �Hear Us Roar�


Aeternia: No words....


Narrator: A woman's voice interrupted Celeris who was going to continue.
The woman's voice was polished but rung very clear as she harshly shouted
the following word.


Matron #1: Misogynist!


Narrator: A second woman's voice spoke just as loud but it was warm and
almost musical.


Matron#2: Magistra! Keep calm and have some more tea.


Celeris: Class seems to be over.


Aeternia (looking at Alexious): We better try to speed this up. Let me see
the list.


Gens Fabia- �A Fabian always pays his debts�.


Matron #1 (snorts): Misogynist! And a rich one at that!


Matron #2 (exasperated): Magistra sede (sit)!


Narrator: One of Aeternia's female companions begins to giggle at the
mention of the name �Fabian�. All of Aeternia's party pause a moment to
look at her.


Aeternia: Gens Galeria- �What is dead shall never die�.


Celeris: Is that going to cause the �shall� war again?


Aeternia: Good question.

Gens Equitia- �Ride Hard�


Celeris: Oh my.


Aeternia: Cato likes horses.

Gens Tullia- �Vivat Lingua Latina� (Latin Language Lives)


Matron #1: Mact�! For we are the cultured gens and we can all speak Latin
perfectly. We are the heirs of Avitus!


Narrator: The students of the class known as �Latin for Noble Ladies� take
on a cheerleader stance as they chant Avitus' name.


The Latin class for �Noble Ladies� (do a cheerleader chant): A-v-itus
A-v-itus A-v-itus!!


Matron #2: Keep chanting and I shall put you all in a corner along with
your Magistra.


Narrator: Aeternia decides to continue with the list so that she can get
the Eunuch known as Alexious away from the Garden of Matrons.


Aeternia: Gens Pompeia- �The Night was dark and full of terrors�. Spooky.

Gens Maria-�Unbent and Unbroken.�


Matron #2 (who is secretly C. Maria Caeca) interrupts: Yeah!!


Gens Marcia- �Io Britannia!�


Celeris: Now that's very fitting.


Aeternia: Gens Caecilia Metella- ??? (I have purposely left out a motto,
so that you would all have to purposely figure out what Motto I would use.
If I were to think of a motto if at all. � Signed Q.)


Narrator: Aeternia & Celeris simply look at each other baffled.


Celeris (smiles): Gens Valeria- �Growing Strong�



Aeternia: Gens Petronia- �Winter came�


Matron#1 (shouts): Oh my poor Petroni! Mistreated by the Xenophobes on a
daily basis!!


Matron #2: What did I say?!?


Aeternia: Okay Gens Cornelia has got to be down here somewhere. We have to
get you out of here Alexious and rather quickly.


Narrator: Aeternia and her companions frantically scroll down the list.


Celeris: Found it!

Gens Cornelia- �Consistency�


Aeternia: Consistency? Wait that's it? Nothing more?


Alexious: No Ma'am that is all that Sulla chose for ya'll.


Narrator: Alexious not knowing the past history associated with the word
�consistency� causes Aeternia's irritation levels to rise rather quickly.



Aeternia: Get out. (walks away from the Eunuch by summoning the guards to
escort Alexious away)


Narrator: As Aeternia and Celeris along with their other companions walk
towards the tea party. You can hear the first Matron say very clearly.


Matron #1: You know nothing about consistency Sulla, you know nothing...


*~Finis~ (The End)*


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90943 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi: one of the promised surprises!
Salvete,

Oh this was a awesome version of the known song!

Valete bene,
Aeternia


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90944 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares 2766: "A Game of Mottoes" (Parody/Play)
Salve Aeternia!

OK, I laughed just as hard this time as I did when you first read it to me!
It's not *fair* to make me read things this funny this late! Now, I won't
be able to get to sleep. Or I'll keep waking up and laughing. Or
something!

Vale bene!
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90945 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares 2766: "A Game of Mottoes" (Parody/Play)
it was Hilarious!!!!! :) just hilarious! It rivals Cato's parodies and
satire!


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90946 From: Bruno Zani Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares 2766- Certamen Mythologicum "Mythology Quiz" (D
*Mythology Quiz (Dies/Day2)*

4.Which mythical bird was sacred to Apollo?   Wolf, Raven, Dolphin


5.How many muses did Apollo have offspring with? Name which Muses. Three Musae,  Urania (astronomy), mother of Linus -  Calliope (epic poetry) , mother of Orpheus and Hymeneus. - Talia (commedy), mother of the seven Korybantes, later guardians and followers of Dionysius/Bacchus 


6. In Celtic Mythology which animal is associated with Apollo? Raven, Horse, Hunting Hounds



________________________________
From: Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@... To: nova-roma <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 8:30 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Ludi Apollinares 2766- Certamen Mythologicum "Mythology Quiz" (Dies 2/Day2)



 
Sta.Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

It's that time again Omnes.

Here are the questions to the first day's Mythology Quiz. All winners will
be announced after the Ludi has closed, so if you don't answer them today
you still have time.

Submit all answers to the following e-mail address:
Syrenslullaby@... Subject
Header: Mythology Quiz

DO NOT post answers to the list but private only.

Bona Fortuna (Good luck ) to all the participants. Please see the
questions below.

Valete bene,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia (Scriba Praetoris)

*Mythology Quiz (Dies/Day2)*
4.Which mythical bird was sacred to Apollo?
5.How many muses did Apollo have offspring with? Name which Muses.
6. In Celtic Mythology which animal is associated with Apollo?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90947 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Official Summons of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
OFFICIAL SUMMONS OF THE COMITIA PLEBIS TRIBUTA
10 July to 23 July 2013 (2766 AUC)





M. Pompeius Caninus civibus plebeianis salutem plurimam dicit:





I call the Comitia Plebis Tributa to order. This Official and Formal
Meeting of the Comitia Plebis Tributa is now commenced under the
authority of, and in compliance with, the Senatus Consultum Ultimum
passed in January 2766 and under the authority of the powers granted to
the Senate by the Constitution of Nova Roma in Paragraph V.E.






Special Instructions:
Plebeian citizens shall access the Cista and cast their vote on the Nova
Roma website through their Album Civium page. The Cista will be closed
on 19 July and 21 July 2013 (2766 AUC) but citizens will be able to vote
on 17 July, 18 July, 20 July and 22 July 2013 (2766 AUC). A draft of the
proposed law is included in this notice and is posted on the Nova Roma
website. The finalized text of the proposed law will be posted to the
website, Main List and Nova Roma Announce List at least 24 hours prior
to the close of the Contio. This Comitia summons will not include
suffect elections. The only agenda item is a proposed law that will
allow the Tribunes to summon the Plebeian citizens for elections,
approval of laws and conducting legal proceedings as needed without an
emergency decree (Senatus Consultum Ultimum) from the Senate.






CALL TO ORDER OF THE COMITIA PLEBIS TRIBUTA
10 July 2013 (2766 AUC)





PRESIDING MAGISTRATE: Marcus Pompeius Caninus, Tribunus Plebis




SCHEDULE:


11:00 AM ROME TIME 10-July-2013 : Call to order. Contio (debate
period) begins.


11:00 PM ROME TIME 14-July-2013 : Contio (debate period) ends.


09:01 AM ROME TIME 17-July-2013 : Call to vote. Voting period begins.


09:01 AM ROME TIME 22-July-2013 : Voting period ends.


11:59 PM ROME TIME 23-July-2013 : Call to close issued before this
time.






AGENDA:


I. Lex Pompeia de ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum
The full text of the proposed law can be found on the Nova Roma website
at:
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Pompeia_de_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_tributorum_(Nova_Roma)




=========DRAFT=========


Lex Pompeia de ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum


Resolved, in order to establish ongoing, simple and easily understood
procedures to summon the Comitia Plebis Tributa and avoid the need for
emergency decrees (Senatus consulta ultima - SCUs) by the Senate to
effectively summon the Comitia Plebis Tributa, we, the Plebeian citizens
of Nova Roma, enact the following:


DRAFT - Proposed lex for approval by Comitia Plebis Tributa
I. Status of Previous Leges Governing the Comitia Plebis Tributa


All previous laws relating to the Comitia Plebis Tributa (hereinafter
referred to as the Comitia) are hereby rescinded as they apply to the
election of magistrates and the promulgation of legislation by the
Comitia.
A. The Lex Moravia de suffragiis in comitiis plebis tributis et ratione
comitiorum plebis tributorum
(http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Moravia_de_Suffragiis_in_Comitiis_Plebis_Tributis_et_Ratione_Comitiorum_Plebis_Tributorum_(Nova_Roma))
is hereby repealed.
B. The Lex Arminia de suffragiis in comitiis tributis
(http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_suffragiis_in_comitiis_tributis_(Nova_Roma))
is hereby repealed.
C. The Lex Grylla de magistratibus plebis creandis
(http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Grylla_de_magistratibus_plebis_creandis_(Nova_Roma))
is hereby repealed.


II. Calling to Order the Comitia Plebis Tributa


A. A Tribunus Plebis may, as described by the Constitution, call the
Comitia to order to hold a vote on one or more of the following:
1. an election for office;
2. a Lex (law); or,
3. an appropriate legal proceeding.
B. The Comitia may be summoned by the presiding magistrate by making a
public declaration announcing the summons in the official public fora.
C. The Summons must contain the following information:
1. The subject heading shall be: “Official Summons of the Comitia
Plebis Tributa”
2. The text of the summons must include:
a) If the summons is to conduct an election then the full Roman name of
the candidates, dates of citizenship, an indication of whether or not
they met the Constitutional and legal requirements of the office they
are seeking, and the name of office they are seeking.
b) If the summons is to vote on a lex or leges then the full text of the
lex or leges or links to web pages containing the full text of the lex
or leges which are being voted on; however, a draft version of the full
text is acceptable at this point.
c) If the summons is to convene a trial or other legal proceeding then
the presiding magistrate will include all necessary information
including but not limited to: the full Roman name of the petitioner; the
full Roman name of the defendant; and, the charges or nature of the
proceeding.
d) The dates and times when the members of the Comitia shall begin and
end the Contio and the start and end dates and times of the voting
period.
3. Also, the presiding magistrate shall include any additional special
instructions necessary that pertain to the mechanics of the vote.
III. The Timing of the Vote


A. The Official Summons of the Comitia Plebis Tributa is identified as
an edictum. A copy of the Official Summons will be posted on the website
with the corresponding designation.
B. The edictum containing the call to vote must be issued at least 72
hours (3 days) prior to the start of the voting session. This period
shall be known as the Contio and during this time formal discussion of
the agenda (leges and legal proceeding) and/or candidates shall take
place.
C. In the event that, in an effort to fill a Plebian office, there are
not enough candidates at the time of the opening of the Contio, the
presiding magistrate may accept additional candidates up to 48 hours
remaining in the Contio. In other words, there are five vacant offices
for office of Tribuni Plebis and if, at the time the presiding
magistrate summons the Comitia, only one candidate has stepped forward
leaving 4 vacancies and 24 hours after the Contio has started two other
citizens step forward (and have met the Constitutional requirements for
the office of Tribunus Plebis) the presiding magistrate has the
discretion to include those two additional individuals in the Comitia
summons and add them to the ballot so a new election or a delay in the
Contio does not need to take place. When accepting additional candidates
during this 48 hour grace period following the start of the Contio, the
presiding magistrate must not disregard any Constitutional requirements
for the office which is the subject of the election. Candidates who put
their names forward during the 48 hour grace period following the start
of the Contio must meet the Constitutional requirements for the office
they seek. Any votes cast for a candidate who does not meet the
Constitutional requirements for the office that is the subject of the
election will be considered null and will not be counted.
D. A final draft of all legislation being voted on must be presented to
the Comitia at least 48 hours prior to the close of the Contio.
E. During the Contio all constitutional powers remain in effect.
Tribunes can issue intercessio, magistrates who share imperium or
outrank in imperium may exercise their constitutionally derived powers.
F. Intercessio may be exercised against the following: The entire
election, vote, one specific item on the agenda, or multiple items on
the agenda. The removal of an item or items is effective for the length
of the then current Comitia summons only. It does not prevent the item
from being listed in a future Comitia summons.
G. In voting for a Lex, the minimum Contio period must last no fewer
than 120 hours (5 days).
H. In a legal proceeding the minimum Contio period must last no fewer
than 192 hours (8 days).
I. The ability to vote during the voting period may be impacted due to
calendar issues as enacted by decreta of the Collegium Pontificum. Any
impact must be announced by the presiding magistrate.
J. Election officials shall tally the vote and deliver the results to
both the presiding magistrate and the Censores (Secretaries of the
Corporation) within 48 hours of the close of voting period. The
presiding magistrate cannot announce the result until the certification
process is fulfilled.
K. The Censores have 24 hours to certify the results given by the
election officials. They have the ability to review all actions taken by
the election officials to ensure accuracy and impartiality. Once the
Censores certify the vote and/or election the Censores or the presiding
magistrate shall announce the result(s) in the appropriate official
public fora. Once completed the presiding magistrate shall bring the
Comitia to a close.


IV. Voting Procedures


A. Each citizen will receive a unique voter identification code. This
code shall be used to maintain anonymity in the voting process, and to
minimize the possibility of voter fraud. The voter identification code
can be issued via automatic process by the web based secured form used
or by the 3rd party alternative. If an automated process is impractical,
or non-existent the Censores shall in a timely manner, prior to vote,
issue the voter codes, delivered to the citizens and supply the
electoral officers with the list of valid voter codes within each tribe
in a way that assures the anonymity of the citizens’ vote. The
election officials shall not have access to the names of the citizens
associated with the particular voter identification codes, nor shall the
election officials have access to the Censor tools or censor database.
B. The election officials, Censores, Web Master, or any authorized or
appointed official shall make available a Cista (a secure web-based form
– internal voting platform) or a secured 3rd party alternative
(currently Nova Roma uses votingplace.net) that will allow citizens to
vote. It is highly recommended that a link is posted on the Nova Roma
website, and a link posted in the official public fora before the voting
period is open. The election officials will keep a record of each ballot
cast including the ballot number and and the desired vote of the
individual. The information thus collected will be either forwarded to
the election officials as it is gathered or at the end of the process,
at their discretion. Alternative methods of voting may be enacted by
other legislation as required.
C. Procedures for Elections
1. The ballot shall include:
a) The name of the office.
b) The number of vacancies.
c) A listing of the candidates for office listed in alphabetical order
based on the candidates' nomina, praenomina, and, where applicable,
cognomina and agnomina. The list shall be placed on the ballot in a
single column.
2. Each voter shall have the option to mark each candidate “uti
rogas” (or Yes) or leave the candidate unmarked. Each ballot shall
carry the following direction: “You may vote for 1 candidate per
office vacancy, please select the magistrate you most strongly
support.” Thus, beside the name of each candidate the voter shall be
able to mark his or her approval of the candidate.
3. A voter may vote for the number of candidates equal to the number of
vacant positions. A voter shall not be required to cast votes for all
vacancies. A voter may choose to vote for only some of the candidates or
none of the candidates.
4. There shall be an area on the ballot for a write-in candidate should
the voter wish to cast a vote for a candidate not listed on the ballot.
5. There shall be an area on the ballot for an abstention, should the
voter wish to waive their right to cast any votes for a given
magistracy.
D. Procedures for Legislation
1. The full text of each proposed law or plebiscite shall appear on the
ballot.
2. Each voter shall have the option to mark each proposal “uti
rogas” (or Yes), “antiquo” (or No), or “abstineo” (or
Abstain). Thus, for each proposed law the voter shall be able to mark
his or her approval of the plebiscite.
E. Procedures for Trials
1. The ballot shall include the name of the accused, the name of the
accuser or party bringing the charges, and the charges and
specifications brought against the accused.
2. There shall be an area on the ballot where each voter shall have the
option to vote "absolvo" (or Innocent), "condemno" (or Guilty), or
“abstineo” (or Abstain - should the voter wish to waive his or her
right to vote on the accused's guilt or innocence). Thus, beside the
name of the accused, the voter shall be able to mark his or her
determination of innocence or guilt.
F. Once cast, no vote may be altered, even with the correct voter
identification code. Should multiple votes be registered with the same
voter identification code, only the first recorded vote shall be used in
counting the vote and any subsequent ballots registered with the same
voter identification code shall be considered null and void.


V. Procedures for Counting Votes


A. Votes shall be counted by tribes.
B. The Voting period for the Comitia, shall be no fewer than 168 hours
(7 days). All tribes are allowed to vote at the commencement of the
voting period. The presiding magistrate will notify the Comitia of the
opening of the voting period via the official public fora and a notice
will be posted on the website.
C. If the Comitia was summoned to vote in an election, the results are
calculated as follows:
1. Each tribe will rank the candidates based on the voting results of
that tribe with the candidate receiving the highest number of votes
ranked first and other candidates ranked similarly based on the number
of votes received in the tribe from highest to lowest.
2. The candidate that wins the most votes is declared the winner of that
tribe.
3. If there is a tie in deciding who won the tribe, a winner will be
determined using the procedure established in Paragraph VI (Breaking of
Ties) of this Lex (by resolving the tie between the candidates who are
tied). Depending on the number of vacancies there could be more than one
winner. If there is more than one vacancy, each tribe should have more
than one winner, those being the highest and second highest vote totals
per tribe, etc until all vacancies are filled.
4. This process will be done for each tribe that voted. The winner then
is determined by which candidate won the most tribes, until all office
vacancies are filled.
D. If the Comitia was summoned to approve a Lex or Leges, a simple
majority of those tribes casting votes must vote in favor for the Lex to
be adopted. A simple majority is defined for this purpose as one half of
the number of tribes casting votes plus one, with any fractions being
rounded down. If a tribe is tied, the tribe will be counted as a
‘No’ vote and there will be no tie breaking procedure. A tribe in
which no voter cast votes is declared vacant and shall not be counted or
used to determine the outcome of the vote.
E. If the Comitia was summoned to conduct a legal proceeding, a majority
of the tribes must vote in favor of conviction in order for the accused
to be condemned. In the case of a trial before the Comitia Plebis
Tributa, a majority is defined as one half of the total number of
tribes, plus one, fractions being rounded down. Even those tribes in
which no voters cast votes shall be counted, as implicit votes for
acquittal, toward the total. If a tribe has no members enrolled the
election officials are instructed to remove those tribes from
consideration during the vote counting process. Thus, only tribes with
at least one citizen enrolled shall be counted to determine the outcome
of a legal proceeding – any tribe without at least one enrolled
citizen (vacant tribes) shall not be counted.
F. Votes may be tallied by automated means should the election officials
determine such is preferable to, and at least as accurate as, a manual
count.
G. Results shall be tabulated by tribe.
H. Only the aggregate votes of the tribes shall be delivered to the
presiding magistrate; the votes of individual citizens shall be secret.


VI. Breaking of Ties


A. The following are the only three methods to be utilized to determine
the results of ties. The process to be used will be exactly, and only,
in order shown – in other words no choosing. If a victor is not
determined by Tie Breaker #1, then Tie Breaker #2 will be used, and if a
clear winner is not determined by Tie Breaker #2, then Tie Breaker #3
will be used to determine a winner. The tie breaking method outlined
here will be utilized to resolve ties within individual tribes as well
as in the sum total of the Comitia.
1. Tie Breaker #1: If a tie between candidates occurs, the candidate who
has been a citizen of Nova Roma the longest, as determined by the
Censores based on the date of citizenship recorded in the Album Civium,
shall prevail.
2. Tie Breaker #2: If the candidates remain tied because they have the
same length of time as citizens of Nova Roma then the candidate with the
largest number of Century Points, as determined by the Censores based on
the Century Point totals recorded in the Album Civium, shall prevail.
3. Tie Breaker #3: If the candidates remain tied because they have the
length of citizenship and the same number of Century Points recorded in
the Album Civium then the oldest candidate, as determined by the
Censores based date of birth, shall be prevail.
4. Tie Breaker #4: In the highly unlikely event that the candidates have
the same length of citizenship, same number of Century Points and the
same date of birth then the tie shall be resolved by the Censores using
a random lot to determine the winner. The casting of random lot must be
witnessed by at least three Senators and one Pontifex. Neither of the
Censores may act as witnesses. The casting of random lot may be
conducted and witnessed online using appropriate video conferencing
technology.
B. The presiding magistrate has the duty and responsibility to request a
member of the Collegium Pontificum or an appropriate Priest to conduct a
ceremonia, at the start of a vote, to express the State’s need for a
method of tie resolution that does not utilize chance and request a more
direct form of divine intervention due to the corruption and tampering
of men.


VII. Certification of the Vote


A. The Censores have the responsibility and powers to investigate any
verifiable concern regarding the voting in the Comitia at any time
during the voting period and up to 24 hours after the presiding
magistrate has announced the close of the voting period.
B. If the Censores need additional time, one or both Censores may seek
an extension of time from the presiding magistrate. The presiding
magistrate has the discretion to approve an extension or not.
C. The Censores formally certify the election by sending a written
notification to the presiding magistrate that they, “Approve and
certify the Comitia results.”
D. If the Censores fail to approve and certify the Comitia results:
1. The Censores are required to explain their rationale to the presiding
magistrate.
2. With this notification the presiding magistrate notifies the Senate.
Within 48 hours, the presiding magistrate issues an emergency summons of
the Senate for the sole purpose of addressing this issue and to
promulgate a Senatus Consulta based on the Comitia situation.
a) If the Senate decides to override the decision of the Censores, the
Censores can either (1) certify the election or (2) refuse to sign. If
the Censores choose to refuse to sign, the Senate certifies the election
in place of the Censores.
b) If the Senate determines that the Censores issues are valid and agree
with the Censores the results of the Comitia are null and void.
3. The presiding magistrate notifies the People and closes the Comitia
and the Comitia will need to be completely restarted.
E. If the Censores fail to respond within the 24 hour timeframe, the
Censores are deemed to have consented and the Comitia results can then
be posted by the presiding magistrate.


======END OF DRAFT======






Optime valete!


Respectfully submitted:


Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
10 July 2766 AUC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90948 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Ludi Apollinares 2766- Certamen Mythologicum "Mythology Quiz" (D
Salvete,

Oh my......

It is okay everyone it happens to us all.

I hope no one has copied Hadrianus' answers however.

I'm looking for one answer for each question.

I will allow re-submits for Day 2.

Valete bene,
Aeternia



Sent from my iPhone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90949 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata - VERY LONG
Avete Omnes,

It is my pleasure to summon for the 2nd time this year the Comitia
Centuriata of Nova Roma.

Presiding Magistrate: Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Schedule:

1:00 pm AZ time July 10th 2013: Contio (Debate Period begins)
1:00 pm AZ time July 19th 2013: Contio (Debate Period Ends)
1:00 pm AZ time July 20th 2013: Voting Period Begins
1:01 pm AZ time July 29th 2013: Voting Period Ends
1:00 pm AZ Time July 30th 2013: Call to Close

We will be bound by the restrictions of the Religious calendar when it
comes to voting:
No Voting on the 21st, 23rd and 25th of July. Any further scheduling will
be announced 24 hours before the end of the Contio.




Agenda:

I - Repeal: Lex Arminia de Ministris Provincialbus -
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_ministris_provincialibus_(Nova_Roma)

II - Repeal - Lex Labiena de custodia perpetua fori -
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Labiena_de_custodia_perpetua_fori_(Nova_Roma)

III - Strike out and repeal section III of the Lex Arminia de Fovenda
Lingua Latina -
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_fovenda_lingua_latina_(Nova_Roma)

IV - CONSTITUTIONAL REVISION: Revise Section II.C.2 of the Constitution of
Nova Roma to state the following:

Ordo Equester (Equestrian Order) the Equestrian Order shall consist of
high standing citizens who excel in their service to the Res Publica.
Equestrians shallbe enrolled into the Ordo Equester as specified by laws
approved by the Comitia.

V Lex Cornelia de Apparitoribus

Introduction: In order to prevent abuse of the Century/Census Point
(hereinafter referred to as CPs) system, to protect the electoral integrity
of the Comitia Centuriata and promote the proper exercise of the voice of
the People of Nova Roma, to insure that only an appropriate number of
apparitores be appointed by magistrates, to discourage duplicative and
inefficient bureaucracy, and to treat CPs as bona fide compensation for
services rendered, this lex places reasonable limits on the number of
apparitores, including scribae and accensi, that may be appointed.

DEFINITION: Apparitores (Attendents). Collectively, the apparitories
shall not be considered magistrates but rather shall be appointed into
various decuriae (corporations/cohors/Staffs) to fulfill those necessary
functions as shall be assigned to them by law enacted by one of the
comitia. They shall include lictores, lictores curiati, scribae and
accensi. (Taken from the Constitution of Nova Roma IV.A.9)

Pursuant to Section IV. A. 9. Upon passage of this lex it is the policy of
Nova Roma to impose limits on magistrates who employ apparitories, to keep
the amount of apparitories consistent to the size of the organization.

I. Apparitores perform important functions in Nova
Roma. This lex recommends that all citizens, especially new citizens gain
necessary experience concerning the inner workings of Nova Roma. It is
equally important that individuals who volunteer their time and effort in
Nova Roma are best utilized for the organization; creating bureaucratic
nepotism is highly discouraged.

II. This lex limits the number of apparitores that
magistrates may utilize in the scope of their duties:

a. Censor: May employ a total of 5 individuals who
will earn CPs.

b. Consul: May employ a total of 5 individuals who
will earn CPs.

c. Praetor: May employ a total of 5 individuals who
will earn CPs.

d. Curule Aedile: May employ a total of 12 individuals who will earn
CPs.

e. Plebian Aedile May employ a total of 4 individuals who will earn
CPs.

f. Tribune of the Plebs: May employ a total of 2 individuals
who will earn CPs

g.

III. It is the policy of Nova Roma that magistrates who are
elected and are bound by their oath of office should do the preponderance
of their work and not delegate all or most of their tasks to subordinates
and assistants (who are not bound by the Oath of office).

IV. If Magistrates choose to exceed the number of *
Apparitores* in excess of section II of this lex those apparitories in
excess will not receive payment for services in the form of CPs. This will
be determined by Section V of this lex.

V. Magistrates must disclose in the form of an
appropriately published edict, the names of those apparitores who will
receive CPs by June 1st. If the Magistrate is a suffectus magistrate that
magistrate must disclose, in the form of an appropriately published edict
the names of those apparitories who will receive CPs within 60 days of
assuming office.

VI. If a magistrate does not publish the edict no apparitore
will receive CPs for that position. They will, for all intent and purposes
have volunteered their time and effort for no payment; nor will such time
investment be used to comply with any requirement for future position(s).
This is also applicable for those apparitories who continue service for a
magistrate and do not receive CPs.

VII. A Citizen may serve in as many apparitore positions as he
or she wishes; however, the citizen will receive CPs for service in no more
than 3 cohors (staff) during 1 calendar year.

VIII. When Nova Roma reaches an Assidui tax base of more than
300 Assidui citizens the presiding magistrate may petition the senate of
Nova Roma to adjust the staff sizes of magistrates. The Senate may at that
time raise the staff members of individual magistrates or the entire
spectrum based on their discretion. However, the Senate must take into
consideration the overall number of tax paying citizens as their primary
factor.

IX. If a Magistrate is serving without a colleague that
magistrate is entitled to employ double the legal staff limit specified in
Section II of this lex. However, if a suffectus magistrate is elected,
appointed or assumes the position the Magistrate must reduce his staff
within 30 days or publish an edict confirming which apparitores will be
given compensation of Century Points.


VI Lex Cornelia de Centuriata

Introduction: Nova Roma�s primary means of compensating its citizens for
service and citizenship has been through the utilization of Census Points
(hereinafter referred to as CPs). The accumulation of CPs must be
carefully monitored to insure that all citizens receive neither more nor
less than the appropriate credit for their service. There are also areas in
Nova Roma life that have been ignored and hopefully this comprehensive law
will address some of those areas.

In accordance with Section II. E. 2 of the Constitution of Nova Roma, the
Lex Cornelia Centuriata is hereby enacted.





I. With the passage of this law all previous conflicting legislation is
hereby repealed. This includes but is not limited to: Lex Vedia Centuriata (
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_centuriata_(Nova_Roma) ) and the Lex Fabia
Centuriata: http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Fabia_centuriata_(Nova_Roma)





II. Points will be awarded for all relevant events in each citizen�s record
based on the values established in this Lex. For elected positions,
citizens are awarded points for each term served. For example, if one was
Consul three times then that individual earns three times the CPs �
reflecting each term served.





III. It is the responsibility of each citizen to review their CPs details
and ensure that all of their previous service is represented. The Censors,
strive to be as accurate as they can be, but it is only with the active
cooperation and involvement of citizens that we can ensure the records are
as close to perfection as possible.





IV. If an individual resigns and later on � rejoins Nova Roma � they do not
receive the benefit of being awarded CPs for prior service when they rejoin
Nova Roma. They must start as if they are a brand new citizen, just as they
are. However, if a returning citizen wishes to appeal this clause they
must appeal to the Censors who must both agree and then the appeal must be
approved by the Senate of Nova Roma. If both the Censors and the Senate
approve the appeal the returning citizen will then be awarded back all
their previous earned Census Points.



A. Magistrates:

Censor: 30 CP

Consul: 30 CP

Praetor: 25 CP

Tribune of the Plebs: 25 CP

Curule Aedile: 20 CP

Plebian Aedile: 20 CP

Quaestor: 15 CP

Dictator: 30 CP

Interrex: 10 CP

Diribitors: 7 CP



B. Apparitores: Citizens may hold more than one position in a magistrate�s
staff but only get awarded points for one position within that staff. A
citizen may not receive century points for more than three such
simultaneously-held positions.

Accensus: 5 CP

Scribe: 5 CP



C. Provincial Positions: Citizens may hold more than one position within a
province � but only get points awarded for one � the highest ranked
position. If individuals are governor of more than 1 province they only get
points awarded for one province as they are stake-holders for the Senate.

Governor 25 CP

Accensus: 5 CP

Scribe: 5 CP

Provincial Sacerdos/Priest: 5 CP



D. Sacerdotes: Citizens may hold more than one position listed in this
subparagraph but only get points awarded for one � the highest ranked
position. Citizens who serve Nova Roma in one of the positions listed below
but also serve in a provincial sacerdos role may receive the points for
Provincial Sacerdos/Priest as stated in subparagraph C above in addition to
the points awarded for service in a position listed in this subparagraph.



Rex Sacrorum 20
Regina Sacrorum 20
Flamen Maior 20
Pontifex Maximus 20
Flamen Minor 15
Augur 15
Vestal 15
Other Sacerdos/Priest 5

For Provincial Sacerdotes see sub-paragraph C above.



E. Other Positions:

Senator: 20 CP

Pater Patriae: 10 CP (in addition to the CP awarded for Senator)

Princeps Senatus: 5 CP (in addition to the CP awarded for Senator)

The Senate shall have the authority to issue points for special appointed
positions, as well as rewards for special services performed on behalf of
the State. Such rewards must be announced at the time of the appointment,
and may not be awarded retroactively.



F. Sodalitates (officially sanctioned sodalitates only): Citizens may hold
more than one sodalitas position, but get points for the highest one only.
The positions and titles of officials included in each rank are defined by
each Head. A report must be filed to the Censores to determine the validity
of issuing CPs ensuring that the charter approved by the Senate is being
properly maintained and elections are held in timely manner. It is the
responsibility of the Head of the Sodalitas to provide this information.



Head of a Sodalitas 10 CP

Person of High Authority: 6 CP

Person of Minor Authority: 3 CP

Member of Sodalitas: 1 CP



G. Orders, Citizenship and Candidates:

The Orders:

Ordo Equester - 10 CP

Length of citizenship:

Less than 6 months: 2 CP

Between 6 and 12 months: 5 CP

Between 1 year and 5 years: 10 CP

Between 5 years and 10 years: 20 CP

Between 10 years and 20 years: 40 CP

Unsuccesssfully run for office: 2 CP

It is not possible to accumulate CPs by unsuccessfully running for more
than one office per year.



H. Public Events: In an effort to recognize the time, effort, costs of
putting on public events the following is stipulated: A public event is one
that is identified as a gathering of more than 4 citizens (minors not
counted) for the purposes of facilitating an event in which Nova Roma plays
an important part this includes but not limited to: Religious rituals
occurring, discussion of Nova Roma events, Legionnaire reenactments, dining
and camaraderie. After Action reports (hereinafter referred to as AAR) are
required to be posted at the public fora as well as a copy is to be given
to the Censors. In the AAR, there needs to be the following: The organizer
of the event, participants, overview of the event. Some photographic
evidence and/or video documentation is to be provided to ensure that those
who participated are awarded the points. Each year a citizen may earn
points in this category for no more than 3 events.

Organizer of the Event: 5 CP

Participant: 2 CP





V. It is now also official policy in Nova Roma that we recognize the need
to raise additional revenue. In order to accomplish this Nova Roma
establishes the ability of citizens to purchase their way to increase the
power of the Vote. Citizens who pay the established fee, which will be
confirmed by the CFO of Nova Roma will be able to move up a class of
centuries to the next class level. In other words, if a citizen is
currently in a Class V level of centuries by paying the fee they will move
to the 4th class. This is available to all the classes except for citizens
already enrolled in the 1st and 2nd classes. This fee is a yearly recurring
fee.

A. The fee for the remainder of the year for 2013 will be
$10.00 US

B. The fee for the full year for 2014 will be: $30.00 US

C. The fee for every year after that will be set by the Senate
via Senatus Consultum.





VII Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum

As a means of consolidating the laws regarding the eligibility of
individuals to serve in magisterial positions (Section V of the
Constitution), this law seeks to make it easier for citizens to know the
requirements to run and hold office as well as aid magistrates in cross
checking the eligibility of candidates who wish to run for office.



This lex repeals the following:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Iunia_de_Magistratuum_aetate_(Nova_Roma)

http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_cursu_honorum_(Nova_Roma)

I. To run for and assume the office of Censor one must
met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 30 years old.

Must be an Assidui (tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 4 years.

Must have previously held the position of Praetor or Consul for at least 6
months OR held the position of Senator of Nova Roma for a year.

2. To run for and assume the office of Consul one must
met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 30 years old

Must be an Assidui (tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 4 years.

Must have previously held the position of Praetor, or Tribune of the Plebs
for at least 6 months ; or have served as a Provincial Governor for at
least 3 years; or Senator for a year.

3. To run for and assume the office of Praetor (NOT Provincial
Praetor) one must met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 27 years old.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 3 years.

Must have previously held one or more of the following positions for at
least six months: Tribune of the Plebs, Plebian Aedile, Curule Aedile,
Quaestor, or Senator for 6 months.

3a. To be appointed Provincial Governor one must met all of these
requirements:

Must be at least 27 years old

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 2 years.

Must have previously held one or more of the following positions for at
least six months: Tribune of the Plebs, Plebian Aedile, Curule Aedile,
Quaestor, or a Senator for 6 months. An applicant may substitute service
in an apparitore position for at least one year for the previous
requirements.

EXEMPTION: In the case of this position only, the senate may waive the
previously held exemption if and only if no other candidate steps forward
to serve as Governor/Provincial Praetor of a province.



4. To run for and assume the office of Curule Aedile one
must met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 25 years old

Must be an Assidui (Tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 2 years.

Must have previously held the position of Plebian Aedile, Provincial
Governor, Quaestor or a Senator for at least 6 months.

5. To run for and assume the office of Quaestor one must met all
of these requirements:

Must be at least 21 years old.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least a year.

Must have previously have held the position of an Apparitore for at least
6 months of service.

6. To be appointed as an election official, minor magistrate, or
Apparitore of Nova Roma as defined by IV.A.8 or IV.A.9 of the Constitution
of Nova Roma one must met all of these requirements*:

Must be at least 18 years of age.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must be a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 6 months.

*Serving in the positions that compose of item 6 are generally described to
be our entry level positions within Nova Roma and we encourage any and all
citizens to being their process of learning about Nova Roma and
volunteering their time in one of the many scribe/accensus positions that
are available both within one�s province and within the positions that
serve Nova Roma in its entirety (consul, censor, praetor.).



II. Age Exemption Procedure

An age Exemption can be granted to a person by the approval of both Censors
and receiving an age dispensation via Senatus Consultum from the Senate of
Nova Roma via 2/3s approval of the Senate of Nova Roma

Citizens who wish to run for office must present the Consuls with their
petition for exemption to the age restriction.

In the case of the annual December magisterial elections, such petitions
must be presented to the Consuls no later than the 15th of October.

In the case of mid-year elections, such petitions must be presented to the
Consuls as soon as possible, but the presentation of such petitions shall
not be regarded as sufficient reason to postpone replacement elections more
than thirty days as required by the Constitution, and the right of underage
cives to run for office shall not override the Constitutional requirement
to fill vacant magistracies in a timely manner.

The petition will include the following information: a. Full Roman name b.
Length of Citizenship c. Prior experience within Nova Roma d. The office
for which the applicant intends to run

The Consuls shall present the petition to the Senate for a vote in such
manner as to allow due consideration of the petition.

III. There shall be no exemption for citizens who are not in the
Assidui status or any other magisterial requirement unless directly
specified in this lex.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90950 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Repeal: Lex Arminia de Ministris Provincialbus - Discussion
Avete Omnes,


I - Repeal: Lex Arminia de Ministris Provincialbus -
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_ministris_provincialibus_(Nova_Roma)

I have included the link for review. I believe this lex is unneeded and as
such we should remove laws that serve little to no constructive purpose.
It also cleans up the Tabularium.

Respectfully,

Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90951 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: II - Repeal - Lex Labiena de custodia perpetua fori
Avete Omnes,

II - Repeal - Lex Labiena de custodia perpetua fori -
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Labiena_de_custodia_perpetua_fori_(Nova_Roma)


Similiar to item I - I have included the link for review. I believe this
lex is unneeded and as such we should remove laws that serve little to no
constructive purpose. It also cleans up the Tabularium.

Respectfully,

Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90952 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua La
Avete Omnes,

III - Strike out and repeal section III of the Lex Arminia de Fovenda
Lingua Latina -
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_fovenda_lingua_latina_(Nova_Roma)


This clause relates to the tax exemption of this position. It should be
the accepted policy of Nova Roma that no one is exempt from the tax. We
are all equally buderneed with due care to ensure that the expenditures of
Nova Roma are met by everyone who voluntarily pays the tax. Exemptions
should not be built in for anyone - regardless of contribution to the
Organization.

Respectfully,

Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90953 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Constitutional Change - Section II.C.2 - Ordo Equester/Equestrian Or
Avete Omnes,

IV - CONSTITUTIONAL REVISION: Revise Section II.C.2 of the Constitution of
Nova Roma to state the following:

Ordo Equester (Equestrian Order) the Equestrian Order shall consist of
high standing citizens who excel in their service to the Res Publica.
Equestrians shallbe enrolled into the Ordo Equester as specified by laws
approved by the Comitia.

Once approved this will be presented to the Senate for ratification. Upon
the change of the Constitution - in August, I am hoping, my staff and I
will present a comprehensive reform of the Ordo Equester and expand it to
just beyond the merchants as it currently exists.

Respectfully,

Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90954 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Lex Cornelia de Apparitoribus - Text and discussion
V Lex Cornelia de Apparitoribus

Introduction: In order to prevent abuse of the Century/Census Point
(hereinafter referred to as CPs) system, to protect the electoral integrity
of the Comitia Centuriata and promote the proper exercise of the voice of
the People of Nova Roma, to insure that only an appropriate number of
apparitores be appointed by magistrates, to discourage duplicative and
inefficient bureaucracy, and to treat CPs as bona fide compensation for
services rendered, this lex places reasonable limits on the number of
apparitores, including scribae and accensi, that may be appointed.

DEFINITION: Apparitores (Attendents). Collectively, the apparitories
shall not be considered magistrates but rather shall be appointed into
various decuriae (corporations/cohors/Staffs) to fulfill those necessary
functions as shall be assigned to them by law enacted by one of the
comitia. They shall include lictores, lictores curiati, scribae and
accensi. (Taken from the Constitution of Nova Roma IV.A.9)

Pursuant to Section IV. A. 9. Upon passage of this lex it is the policy of
Nova Roma to impose limits on magistrates who employ apparitories, to keep
the amount of apparitories consistent to the size of the organization.

I. Apparitores perform important functions in Nova
Roma. This lex recommends that all citizens, especially new citizens gain
necessary experience concerning the inner workings of Nova Roma. It is
equally important that individuals who volunteer their time and effort in
Nova Roma are best utilized for the organization; creating bureaucratic
nepotism is highly discouraged.

II. This lex limits the number of apparitores that
magistrates may utilize in the scope of their duties:

a. Censor: May employ a total of 5 individuals who
will earn CPs.

b. Consul: May employ a total of 5 individuals who
will earn CPs.

c. Praetor: May employ a total of 5 individuals who
will earn CPs.

d. Curule Aedile: May employ a total of 12 individuals who will earn
CPs.

e. Plebian Aedile May employ a total of 4 individuals who will earn
CPs.

f. Tribune of the Plebs: May employ a total of 2 individuals
who will earn CPs

g.

III. It is the policy of Nova Roma that magistrates who are
elected and are bound by their oath of office should do the preponderance
of their work and not delegate all or most of their tasks to subordinates
and assistants (who are not bound by the Oath of office).

IV. If Magistrates choose to exceed the number of *
Apparitores* in excess of section II of this lex those apparitories in
excess will not receive payment for services in the form of CPs. This will
be determined by Section V of this lex.

V. Magistrates must disclose in the form of an
appropriately published edict, the names of those apparitores who will
receive CPs by June 1st. If the Magistrate is a suffectus magistrate that
magistrate must disclose, in the form of an appropriately published edict
the names of those apparitories who will receive CPs within 60 days of
assuming office.

VI. If a magistrate does not publish the edict no apparitore
will receive CPs for that position. They will, for all intent and purposes
have volunteered their time and effort for no payment; nor will such time
investment be used to comply with any requirement for future
position(s). This is also applicable for those apparitories who continue
service for a magistrate and do not receive CPs.

VII. A Citizen may serve in as many apparitore positions as he
or she wishes; however, the citizen will receive CPs for service in no more
than 3 cohors (staff) during 1 calendar year.

VIII. When Nova Roma reaches an Assidui tax base of more than
300 Assidui citizens the presiding magistrate may petition the senate of
Nova Roma to adjust the staff sizes of magistrates. The Senate may at that
time raise the staff members of individual magistrates or the entire
spectrum based on their discretion. However, the Senate must take into
consideration the overall number of tax paying citizens as their primary
factor.

IX. If a Magistrate is serving without a colleague that
magistrate is entitled to employ double the legal staff limit specified in
Section II of this lex. However, if a suffectus magistrate is elected,
appointed or assumes the position the Magistrate must reduce his staff
within 30 days or publish an edict confirming which apparitores will be
given compensation of Century Points.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90955 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
VI Lex Cornelia de Centuriata

Introduction: Nova Roma�s primary means of compensating its citizens for
service and citizenship has been through the utilization of Census Points
(hereinafter referred to as CPs). The accumulation of CPs must be
carefully monitored to insure that all citizens receive neither more nor
less than the appropriate credit for their service. There are also areas in
Nova Roma life that have been ignored and hopefully this comprehensive law
will address some of those areas.

In accordance with Section II. E. 2 of the Constitution of Nova Roma, the
Lex Cornelia Centuriata is hereby enacted.





I. With the passage of this law all previous conflicting legislation is
hereby repealed. This includes but is not limited to: Lex Vedia Centuriata (
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_centuriata_(Nova_Roma) ) and the Lex Fabia
Centuriata: http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Fabia_centuriata_(Nova_Roma)





II. Points will be awarded for all relevant events in each citizen�s record
based on the values established in this Lex. For elected positions,
citizens are awarded points for each term served. For example, if one was
Consul three times then that individual earns three times the CPs �
reflecting each term served.





III. It is the responsibility of each citizen to review their CPs details
and ensure that all of their previous service is represented. The Censors,
strive to be as accurate as they can be, but it is only with the active
cooperation and involvement of citizens that we can ensure the records are
as close to perfection as possible.





IV. If an individual resigns and later on � rejoins Nova Roma � they do not
receive the benefit of being awarded CPs for prior service when they rejoin
Nova Roma. They must start as if they are a brand new citizen, just as they
are. However, if a returning citizen wishes to appeal this clause they
must appeal to the Censors who must both agree and then the appeal must be
approved by the Senate of Nova Roma. If both the Censors and the Senate
approve the appeal the returning citizen will then be awarded back all
their previous earned Census Points.



A. Magistrates:

Censor: 30 CP

Consul: 30 CP

Praetor: 25 CP

Tribune of the Plebs: 25 CP

Curule Aedile: 20 CP

Plebian Aedile: 20 CP

Quaestor: 15 CP

Dictator: 30 CP

Interrex: 10 CP

Diribitors: 7 CP



B. Apparitores: Citizens may hold more than one position in a magistrate�s
staff but only get awarded points for one position within that staff. A
citizen may not receive century points for more than three such
simultaneously-held positions.

Accensus: 5 CP

Scribe: 5 CP



C. Provincial Positions: Citizens may hold more than one position within a
province � but only get points awarded for one � the highest ranked
position. If individuals are governor of more than 1 province they only get
points awarded for one province as they are stake-holders for the Senate.

Governor 25 CP

Accensus: 5 CP

Scribe: 5 CP

Provincial Sacerdos/Priest: 5 CP



D. Sacerdotes: Citizens may hold more than one position listed in this
subparagraph but only get points awarded for one � the highest ranked
position. Citizens who serve Nova Roma in one of the positions listed below
but also serve in a provincial sacerdos role may receive the points for
Provincial Sacerdos/Priest as stated in subparagraph C above in addition to
the points awarded for service in a position listed in this subparagraph.



Rex Sacrorum 20
Regina Sacrorum 20
Flamen Maior 20
Pontifex Maximus 20
Flamen Minor 15
Augur 15
Vestal 15
Other Sacerdos/Priest 5

For Provincial Sacerdotes see sub-paragraph C above.



E. Other Positions:

Senator: 20 CP

Pater Patriae: 10 CP (in addition to the CP awarded for Senator)

Princeps Senatus: 5 CP (in addition to the CP awarded for Senator)

The Senate shall have the authority to issue points for special appointed
positions, as well as rewards for special services performed on behalf of
the State. Such rewards must be announced at the time of the appointment,
and may not be awarded retroactively.



F. Sodalitates (officially sanctioned sodalitates only): Citizens may hold
more than one sodalitas position, but get points for the highest one only.
The positions and titles of officials included in each rank are defined by
each Head. A report must be filed to the Censores to determine the validity
of issuing CPs ensuring that the charter approved by the Senate is being
properly maintained and elections are held in timely manner. It is the
responsibility of the Head of the Sodalitas to provide this information.



Head of a Sodalitas 10 CP

Person of High Authority: 6 CP

Person of Minor Authority: 3 CP

Member of Sodalitas: 1 CP



G. Orders, Citizenship and Candidates:

The Orders:

Ordo Equester - 10 CP

Length of citizenship:

Less than 6 months: 2 CP

Between 6 and 12 months: 5 CP

Between 1 year and 5 years: 10 CP

Between 5 years and 10 years: 20 CP

Between 10 years and 20 years: 40 CP

Unsuccesssfully run for office: 2 CP

It is not possible to accumulate CPs by unsuccessfully running for more
than one office per year.



H. Public Events: In an effort to recognize the time, effort, costs of
putting on public events the following is stipulated: A public event is one
that is identified as a gathering of more than 4 citizens (minors not
counted) for the purposes of facilitating an event in which Nova Roma plays
an important part this includes but not limited to: Religious rituals
occurring, discussion of Nova Roma events, Legionnaire reenactments, dining
and camaraderie. After Action reports (hereinafter referred to as AAR) are
required to be posted at the public fora as well as a copy is to be given
to the Censors. In the AAR, there needs to be the following: The organizer
of the event, participants, overview of the event. Some photographic
evidence and/or video documentation is to be provided to ensure that those
who participated are awarded the points. Each year a citizen may earn
points in this category for no more than 3 events.

Organizer of the Event: 5 CP

Participant: 2 CP





V. It is now also official policy in Nova Roma that we recognize the need
to raise additional revenue. In order to accomplish this Nova Roma
establishes the ability of citizens to purchase their way to increase the
power of the Vote. Citizens who pay the established fee, which will be
confirmed by the CFO of Nova Roma will be able to move up a class of
centuries to the next class level. In other words, if a citizen is
currently in a Class V level of centuries by paying the fee they will move
to the 4th class. This is available to all the classes except for citizens
already enrolled in the 1st and 2nd classes. This fee is a yearly recurring
fee.

A. The fee for the remainder of the year for 2013 will be
$10.00 US

B. The fee for the full year for 2014 will be: $30.00 US

C. The fee for every year after that will be set by the Senate
via Senatus Consultum.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90956 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
VII Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum

As a means of consolidating the laws regarding the eligibility of
individuals to serve in magisterial positions (Section V of the
Constitution), this law seeks to make it easier for citizens to know the
requirements to run and hold office as well as aid magistrates in cross
checking the eligibility of candidates who wish to run for office.



This lex repeals the following:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Iunia_de_Magistratuum_aetate_(Nova_Roma)

http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_cursu_honorum_(Nova_Roma)

I. To run for and assume the office of Censor one must
met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 30 years old.

Must be an Assidui (tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 4 years.

Must have previously held the position of Praetor or Consul for at least 6
months OR held the position of Senator of Nova Roma for a year.

2. To run for and assume the office of Consul one must
met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 30 years old

Must be an Assidui (tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 4 years.

Must have previously held the position of Praetor, or Tribune of the Plebs
for at least 6 months ; or have served as a Provincial Governor for at
least 3 years; or Senator for a year.

3. To run for and assume the office of Praetor (NOT Provincial
Praetor) one must met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 27 years old.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 3 years.

Must have previously held one or more of the following positions for at
least six months: Tribune of the Plebs, Plebian Aedile, Curule Aedile,
Quaestor, or Senator for 6 months.

3a. To be appointed Provincial Governor one must met all of these
requirements:

Must be at least 27 years old

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 2 years.

Must have previously held one or more of the following positions for at
least six months: Tribune of the Plebs, Plebian Aedile, Curule Aedile,
Quaestor, or a Senator for 6 months. An applicant may substitute service
in an apparitore position for at least one year for the previous
requirements.

EXEMPTION: In the case of this position only, the senate may waive the
previously held exemption if and only if no other candidate steps forward
to serve as Governor/Provincial Praetor of a province.



4. To run for and assume the office of Curule Aedile one
must met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 25 years old

Must be an Assidui (Tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 2 years.

Must have previously held the position of Plebian Aedile, Provincial
Governor, Quaestor or a Senator for at least 6 months.

5. To run for and assume the office of Quaestor one must met all
of these requirements:

Must be at least 21 years old.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least a year.

Must have previously have held the position of an Apparitore for at least
6 months of service.

6. To be appointed as an election official, minor magistrate, or
Apparitore of Nova Roma as defined by IV.A.8 or IV.A.9 of the Constitution
of Nova Roma one must met all of these requirements*:

Must be at least 18 years of age.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must be a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 6 months.

*Serving in the positions that compose of item 6 are generally described to
be our entry level positions within Nova Roma and we encourage any and all
citizens to being their process of learning about Nova Roma and
volunteering their time in one of the many scribe/accensus positions that
are available both within one�s province and within the positions that
serve Nova Roma in its entirety (consul, censor, praetor.).



II. Age Exemption Procedure

An age Exemption can be granted to a person by the approval of both Censors
and receiving an age dispensation via Senatus Consultum from the Senate of
Nova Roma via 2/3s approval of the Senate of Nova Roma

Citizens who wish to run for office must present the Consuls with their
petition for exemption to the age restriction.

In the case of the annual December magisterial elections, such petitions
must be presented to the Consuls no later than the 15th of October.

In the case of mid-year elections, such petitions must be presented to the
Consuls as soon as possible, but the presentation of such petitions shall
not be regarded as sufficient reason to postpone replacement elections more
than thirty days as required by the Constitution, and the right of underage
cives to run for office shall not override the Constitutional requirement
to fill vacant magistracies in a timely manner.

The petition will include the following information: a. Full Roman name b.
Length of Citizenship c. Prior experience within Nova Roma d. The office
for which the applicant intends to run

The Consuls shall present the petition to the Senate for a vote in such
manner as to allow due consideration of the petition.

III. There shall be no exemption for citizens who are not in the
Assidui status or any other magisterial requirement unless directly
specified in this lex.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90957 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Lex for summoning the Plebs
M. Pompeius Caninus civibus plebeianis sal.

The Contio is open for reasoned debate, thoughtful comments (like you
just posted) or even snarky remarks.


This lex for the Plebs is based on the new leges that Sulla developed
for the Centuries and the Tribes with some good input from Crassus,
Sulla and other members of the Consul's staff.


The main reason for submitting this new lex is it gives us, the Plebs,
the ability to conduct Comitia business without relying on an SCU or the
Senate. And we can use the NR website or a third party website to
collect the ballots so there is some flexibility that was missing from
the lex currently in force. This new lex also creates more reliable tie
breakers that are objective and not easily manipulated.


Fac valeas!



Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90958 From: Glenn Thacker Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata - VERY LONG
C. Decius Laterensis L. Cornelio Sullae Consuli omnibusque S.P.D.


May I ask the reason behind the first two points in the agenda repealing Lex Arminia de Ministris Provincialbus and Lex Labiena de custodia perpetua fori?  Neither one seems particularly undesirable to me.


Also, in Lex Cornelia de Centuriata, Section V, you outline a way for people to pay to move into a higher century.  I find myself divided on that part.  On one hand, I'm not sure that it's desirable to base such a thing on someone's ability and/or desire to shell out more money.  On the other hand, paying to improve one's standing -is- very Roman, and I'm sure we could use the money.  I'm really going to have to think about it before I can decide whether I can support that one or not.

Di vos incolumes custodiant!


________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <nova-roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 3:58 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata - VERY LONG


Avete Omnes,

It is my pleasure to summon for the 2nd time this year the Comitia
Centuriata of Nova Roma.

Presiding Magistrate:  Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Schedule:

1:00 pm AZ time July 10th 2013:  Contio (Debate Period begins)
1:00 pm AZ time July 19th 2013:  Contio (Debate Period Ends)
1:00 pm AZ time July  20th 2013:  Voting Period Begins
1:01 pm AZ time July 29th 2013:  Voting Period Ends
1:00 pm AZ Time July 30th 2013:  Call to Close

We will be bound by the restrictions of the Religious calendar when it
comes to voting:
No Voting on the 21st, 23rd and 25th of July.  Any further scheduling will
be announced 24 hours before the end of the Contio.




Agenda:

I - Repeal:  Lex Arminia de Ministris Provincialbus  -
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_ministris_provincialibus_(Nova_Roma)

II - Repeal - Lex Labiena de custodia perpetua fori -
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Labiena_de_custodia_perpetua_fori_(Nova_Roma)

III - Strike out and repeal section III of the Lex Arminia de Fovenda
Lingua Latina -
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_fovenda_lingua_latina_(Nova_Roma)

IV - CONSTITUTIONAL REVISION:  Revise Section II.C.2 of the Constitution of
Nova Roma to state the following:

Ordo Equester (Equestrian Order)  the Equestrian Order shall consist of
high standing citizens who excel in their service to the Res Publica.
Equestrians shallbe enrolled into the Ordo Equester as specified by laws
approved by the Comitia.

V Lex Cornelia de Apparitoribus

Introduction:  In order to prevent abuse of the Century/Census Point
(hereinafter referred to as CPs) system, to protect the electoral integrity
of the Comitia Centuriata and promote the proper exercise of the voice of
the People of Nova Roma, to insure that only an appropriate number of
apparitores be appointed by magistrates, to discourage duplicative and
inefficient bureaucracy, and to treat CPs as bona fide compensation for
services rendered, this lex places reasonable limits on the number of
apparitores, including scribae and accensi, that may be appointed.

DEFINITION:  Apparitores (Attendents).  Collectively, the apparitories
shall not be considered magistrates but rather shall be appointed into
various decuriae (corporations/cohors/Staffs) to fulfill those necessary
functions as shall be assigned to them by law enacted by one of the
comitia.  They shall include lictores, lictores curiati, scribae and
accensi. (Taken from the Constitution of Nova Roma IV.A.9)

Pursuant to Section IV. A. 9. Upon passage of this lex it is the policy of
Nova Roma to impose limits on magistrates who employ apparitories, to keep
the amount of apparitories consistent to the size of the organization.

I.                    Apparitores perform important functions in Nova
Roma.  This lex recommends that all citizens, especially new citizens gain
necessary experience concerning the inner workings of Nova Roma.  It is
equally important that individuals who volunteer their time and effort in
Nova Roma are best utilized for the organization; creating bureaucratic
nepotism is highly discouraged.

II.                  This lex limits the number of apparitores that
magistrates may utilize in the scope of their duties:

a.      Censor:                May employ a total of 5 individuals who
will earn CPs.

b.      Consul:                May employ a total of 5 individuals who
will earn CPs.

c.      Praetor:              May employ a total of 5 individuals who
will earn CPs.

d.      Curule Aedile:  May employ a total of 12 individuals who will earn
CPs.

e.      Plebian Aedile  May employ a total of 4 individuals who will earn
CPs.

f.        Tribune of the Plebs:      May employ a total of 2 individuals
who will earn CPs

g.

III.                It is the policy of Nova Roma that magistrates who are
elected and are bound by their oath of office should do the preponderance
of their work and not delegate all or most of their tasks to subordinates
and assistants (who are not bound by the Oath of office).

IV.                If Magistrates choose to exceed the number of *
Apparitores* in excess of section II of this lex those apparitories in
excess will not receive payment for services in the form of CPs.  This will
be determined by Section V of this lex.

V.                  Magistrates must disclose in the form of an
appropriately published edict, the names of those apparitores who will
receive CPs by June 1st.  If the Magistrate is a suffectus magistrate that
magistrate must disclose, in the form of an appropriately published edict
the names of those apparitories who will receive CPs within 60 days of
assuming office.

VI.                If a magistrate does not publish the edict no apparitore
will receive CPs for that position.  They will, for all intent and purposes
have volunteered their time and effort for no payment; nor will such time
investment be used to comply with any requirement for future position(s).
This is also applicable for those apparitories who continue service for a
magistrate and do not receive CPs.

VII.              A Citizen may serve in as many apparitore positions as he
or she wishes; however, the citizen will receive CPs for service in no more
than 3 cohors (staff) during 1 calendar year.

VIII.            When Nova Roma reaches an Assidui tax base of more than
300 Assidui citizens the presiding magistrate may petition the senate of
Nova Roma to adjust the staff sizes of magistrates.  The Senate may at that
time raise the staff members of individual magistrates or the entire
spectrum based on their discretion.  However, the Senate must take into
consideration the overall number of tax paying citizens as their primary
factor.

IX.                If a Magistrate is serving without a colleague that
magistrate is entitled to employ double the legal staff limit specified in
Section II of this lex.  However, if a suffectus magistrate is elected,
appointed or assumes the position the Magistrate must reduce his staff
within 30 days or publish an edict confirming which apparitores will be
given compensation of Century Points.


VI Lex Cornelia de Centuriata

Introduction: Nova Roma’s primary means of compensating its citizens for
service and citizenship has been through the utilization of Census Points
(hereinafter referred to as CPs).  The accumulation of CPs must be
carefully monitored to insure that all citizens receive neither more nor
less than the appropriate credit for their service. There are also areas in
Nova Roma life that have been ignored and hopefully this comprehensive law
will address some of those areas.

In accordance with Section II. E. 2 of the Constitution of Nova Roma, the
Lex Cornelia Centuriata is hereby enacted.





I. With the passage of this law all previous conflicting legislation is
hereby repealed. This includes but is not limited to: Lex Vedia Centuriata (
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_centuriata_(Nova_Roma) ) and the Lex Fabia
Centuriata: http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Fabia_centuriata_(Nova_Roma)





II. Points will be awarded for all relevant events in each citizen’s record
based on the values established in this Lex. For elected positions,
citizens are awarded points for each term served. For example, if one was
Consul three times then that individual earns three times the CPs –
reflecting each term served.





III. It is the responsibility of each citizen to review their CPs details
and ensure that all of their previous service is represented. The Censors,
strive to be as accurate as they can be, but it is only with the active
cooperation and involvement of citizens that we can ensure the records are
as close to perfection as possible.





IV. If an individual resigns and later on – rejoins Nova Roma – they do not
receive the benefit of being awarded CPs for prior service when they rejoin
Nova Roma. They must start as if they are a brand new citizen, just as they
are.  However, if a returning citizen wishes to appeal this clause they
must appeal to the Censors who must both agree and then the appeal must be
approved by the Senate of Nova Roma.  If both the Censors and the Senate
approve the appeal the returning citizen will then be awarded back all
their previous earned Census Points.



A. Magistrates:

Censor: 30 CP

Consul: 30 CP

Praetor: 25 CP

Tribune of the Plebs: 25 CP

Curule Aedile: 20 CP

Plebian Aedile: 20 CP

Quaestor: 15 CP

Dictator: 30 CP

Interrex: 10 CP

Diribitors:  7 CP



B. Apparitores: Citizens may hold more than one position in a magistrate’s
staff but only get awarded points for one position within that staff. A
citizen may not receive century points for more than three such
simultaneously-held positions.

Accensus: 5 CP

Scribe: 5 CP



C. Provincial Positions: Citizens may hold more than one position within a
province – but only get points awarded for one – the highest ranked
position. If individuals are governor of more than 1 province they only get
points awarded for one province as they are stake-holders for the Senate.

Governor 25 CP

Accensus: 5 CP

Scribe: 5 CP

Provincial Sacerdos/Priest: 5 CP



D. Sacerdotes: Citizens may hold more than one position listed in this
subparagraph but only get points awarded for one – the highest ranked
position. Citizens who serve Nova Roma in one of the positions listed below
but also serve in a provincial sacerdos role may receive the points for
Provincial Sacerdos/Priest as stated in subparagraph C above in addition to
the points awarded for service in a position listed in this subparagraph.



Rex Sacrorum 20
Regina Sacrorum 20
Flamen Maior 20
Pontifex Maximus 20
Flamen Minor 15
Augur 15
Vestal 15
Other Sacerdos/Priest 5

For Provincial Sacerdotes see sub-paragraph C above.



E. Other Positions:

Senator: 20 CP

Pater Patriae: 10 CP (in addition to the CP awarded for Senator)

Princeps Senatus: 5 CP (in addition to the CP awarded for Senator)

The Senate shall have the authority to issue points for special appointed
positions, as well as rewards for special services performed on behalf of
the State. Such rewards must be announced at the time of the appointment,
and may not be awarded retroactively.



F. Sodalitates (officially sanctioned sodalitates only): Citizens may hold
more than one sodalitas position, but get points for the highest one only.
The positions and titles of officials included in each rank are defined by
each Head. A report must be filed to the Censores to determine the validity
of issuing CPs ensuring that the charter approved by the Senate is being
properly maintained and elections are held in  timely manner. It is the
responsibility of the Head of the Sodalitas to provide this information.



Head of a Sodalitas 10 CP

Person of High Authority: 6 CP

Person of Minor Authority: 3 CP

Member of Sodalitas: 1 CP



G. Orders, Citizenship and Candidates:

The Orders:

Ordo Equester - 10 CP

Length of citizenship:

Less than 6 months: 2 CP

Between 6 and 12 months: 5 CP

Between 1 year and 5 years: 10 CP

Between 5 years and 10 years: 20 CP

Between 10 years and 20 years: 40 CP

Unsuccesssfully run for office: 2 CP

It is not possible to accumulate CPs by unsuccessfully running for more
than one office per year.



H. Public Events: In an effort to recognize the time, effort, costs of
putting on public events the following is stipulated: A public event is one
that is identified as a gathering of more than 4 citizens (minors not
counted) for the purposes of facilitating an event in which Nova Roma plays
an important part this includes but not limited to: Religious rituals
occurring, discussion of Nova Roma events, Legionnaire reenactments, dining
and camaraderie. After Action reports (hereinafter referred to as AAR) are
required to be posted at the public fora as well as a copy is to be given
to the Censors. In the AAR, there needs to be the following: The organizer
of the event, participants, overview of the event. Some photographic
evidence and/or video documentation is to be provided to ensure that those
who participated are awarded the points. Each year a citizen may earn
points in this category for no more than 3 events.

Organizer of the Event: 5 CP

Participant: 2 CP





V. It is now also official policy in Nova Roma that we recognize the need
to raise additional revenue. In order to accomplish this Nova Roma
establishes the ability of citizens to purchase their way to increase the
power of the Vote. Citizens who pay the established fee, which will be
confirmed by the CFO of Nova Roma will be able to move up a class of
centuries to the next class level. In other words, if a citizen is
currently in a Class V level of centuries by paying the fee they will move
to the 4th class. This is available to all the classes except for citizens
already enrolled in the 1st and 2nd classes. This fee is a yearly recurring
fee.

            A.  The fee for the remainder of the year for 2013 will be
$10.00 US

            B.  The fee for the full year for 2014 will be:  $30.00 US

            C.  The fee for every year after that will be set by the Senate
via Senatus Consultum.





VII Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum

As a means of consolidating the laws regarding the eligibility of
individuals to serve in magisterial positions (Section V of the
Constitution), this law seeks to make it easier for citizens to know the
requirements to run and hold office as well as aid magistrates in cross
checking the eligibility of candidates who wish to run for office.



This lex repeals the following:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Iunia_de_Magistratuum_aetate_(Nova_Roma)

http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_cursu_honorum_(Nova_Roma)

I.                    To run for and assume the office of Censor one must
met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 30 years old.

Must be an Assidui (tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 4 years.

Must have previously held the position of Praetor or Consul for at least 6
months OR held the position of Senator of Nova Roma for a year.

      2.            To run for and assume the office of Consul one must
met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 30 years old

Must be an Assidui (tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 4 years.

Must have previously held the position of Praetor, or Tribune of the Plebs
for at least 6 months ; or have served as a Provincial Governor for at
least 3 years; or Senator for a year.

3.            To run for and assume the office of Praetor (NOT Provincial
Praetor) one must met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 27 years old.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 3 years.

Must have previously held one or more of the following positions for at
least six months:  Tribune of the Plebs, Plebian Aedile, Curule Aedile,
Quaestor, or Senator for 6 months.

3a.          To be appointed Provincial Governor one must met all of these
requirements:

Must be at least 27 years old

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 2 years.

Must have previously held one or more of the following positions for at
least six months:  Tribune of the Plebs, Plebian Aedile, Curule Aedile,
Quaestor, or a Senator for 6 months.  An applicant may substitute service
in an apparitore position for at least one year for the previous
requirements.

EXEMPTION:  In the case of this position only, the senate may waive the
previously held exemption if and only if no other candidate steps forward
to serve as Governor/Provincial Praetor of a province.



4.                  To run for and assume the office of Curule Aedile one
must met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 25 years old

Must be an Assidui (Tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 2 years.

Must have previously held the position of Plebian Aedile, Provincial
Governor, Quaestor or a Senator for at least 6 months.

5.            To run for and assume the office of Quaestor one must met all
of these requirements:

Must be at least 21 years old.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least a year.

Must have previously  have held the position of an Apparitore for at least
6 months of service.

6.            To be appointed as an election official, minor magistrate, or
Apparitore of Nova Roma as defined by IV.A.8 or IV.A.9 of the Constitution
of Nova Roma one must met all of these requirements*:

Must be at least 18 years of age.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must be a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 6 months.

*Serving in the positions that compose of item 6 are generally described to
be our entry level positions within Nova Roma and we encourage any and all
citizens to being their process of learning about Nova Roma and
volunteering their time in one of the many scribe/accensus positions that
are available both within one’s province and within the positions that
serve Nova Roma in its entirety (consul, censor, praetor.).



II.  Age Exemption Procedure

An age Exemption can be granted to a person by the approval of both Censors
and receiving an age dispensation via Senatus Consultum from the Senate of
Nova Roma via 2/3s approval of the Senate of Nova Roma

Citizens who wish to run for office must present the Consuls with their
petition for exemption to the age restriction.

In the case of the annual December magisterial elections, such petitions
must be presented to the Consuls no later than the 15th of October.

In the case of mid-year elections, such petitions must be presented to the
Consuls as soon as possible, but the presentation of such petitions shall
not be regarded as sufficient reason to postpone replacement elections more
than thirty days as required by the Constitution, and the right of underage
cives to run for office shall not override the Constitutional requirement
to fill vacant magistracies in a timely manner.

The petition will include the following information: a. Full Roman name b.
Length of Citizenship c. Prior experience within Nova Roma d. The office
for which the applicant intends to run

The Consuls shall present the petition to the Senate for a vote in such
manner as to allow due consideration of the petition.

III.            There shall be no exemption for citizens who are not in the
Assidui status or any other magisterial requirement unless directly
specified in this lex.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90959 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-10
Subject: Re: Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata - VERY LONG
Ave,

Both of those laws serve no purpose. Lex Arminia de Ministris
Provincialbus and Lex Labiena de custodia perpetua fori

If a Governor/Propraetor/Proconsul etc is prorogued he/she does not lose
imperium thus they don't need to reissue edicts in the first place. If a
new Governor/Propraetor/Proconsul takes over - of course they have to
reissue edicts just like every Imperium bearing magistrate in Nova Roma. It
is redundant.

As for the second law it creates issues of proroguing magistrates - we
certainly did not prorogue magistrates this year. It is unnecessary and if
there is one position open but two Praestors who and how is it decided who
gets the open position? Again, it simply is not needed. Better to get rid
of un-needed laws than to have them remain in the books and then if someone
in the future try to use them - there is no proper procedure in place to
actually resolving those issues. It is a crises waiting to happen, in
other words.

As for the Lex Cornelia de Centuriata, keep in mind only individuals in the
5h, 4th and 3rd class are eligible to voluntarily participate. I do not
anticipate many people actually exercising the option to do so, but it
would be one additional possible revenue stream for Nova Roma - that is in
essence, as you point out - very Roman. This is the key, Voluntary, clear
benefit, and Roman all at the same time.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90960 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata - VERY LONG
Avete!
 
I'll be blunt and respond the same way I do the Cub Scout parents in my Pack when it comes to fundraising...
 
Everybody get out your checkbooks and write us a check for $200 and we won't worry about fundraising again until next year!
 
IF NOT...
 
If you earn Century Points for the job you do, return the favor monetarily so we can have money for events, advertising, marketing, promotions, travel reimbursement to set up new local groups, charity, restoration projects, resources, awards, research assistance, scholarships, etc., on the local, provincial and international levels. 
 
If you don't earn Century Points yet, elections are in December.
 
If you are a New Civis or and old one, prepare to roll up your tunic sleeves (in the Northern provinciae) and let's jump in there and get things done. 
 
If you have lots of money, throw at us.  We'll be kind and not throw it back, we'll use it for good works.
 
In fact, if you deal, or want to deal, in Roman goods (like small amphorae of gladiator sweat or custom tailored togas or anything else people might buy as a Roman novelty) that you can make, get your home industry in production and apply to the Macellum as a vendor. I remember several years ago, a young man was making Portable Altars that burned incense and represented the various Gods (6 or 8 of them if I remember).  They were very simple and made of clay with hand-etched designs. Absolutely, one of a kind gifts. I never bought one, but I wish I had...they were pretty cool and at least a good conversation piece.
 
If you are a poet (and you know it), write a collection and put in the Macellum for sale.
 
We can do anything we want to...as long as we can pay for it. Sadly, it is about the money.  We are not broke, but we could do so much more with a little extra cash.  We are blessed to be part of an organization, who strives to remember and preserve.  Years ago, there used to be a motto on the old NR homepage athat said something like "Our mission is to recreate the Roman Republic as a means of preserving the past for future generations" or something like that.  It hasn't changed.  The was for the 10th Anniversary, the Magna Mater Project to raise funds to build a monument or something (I forgot) on the Forum Romanum in Rome.  Where are those type projects now? Waiting funding...
 
Remember, in the Roman Army unit, a private made 1 DN, a corporal made 1.5 DN, a segeant made 2 DN, a Centurio made 5 DN...and the Officer made 50 DN. Yep, 50:1.  Buying your way to the top of the heap is very Roman. Higher rank means higher "income and expenses." It's just naturally Roman...and, it's fun if you can afford it.  As Seneca said so well, "It is not how long you live, but how well you live."
 
As for me, I'll pay extra...cause we need the money and my wife says, "You've got that damned Roman disease again..."
 
Valete optime,
Triarius 

________________________________
From: Glenn Thacker <rajuc47@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata - VERY LONG


 

C. Decius Laterensis L. Cornelio Sullae Consuli omnibusque S.P.D.

May I ask the reason behind the first two points in the agenda repealing Lex Arminia de Ministris Provincialbus and Lex Labiena de custodia perpetua fori?  Neither one seems particularly undesirable to me.

Also, in Lex Cornelia de Centuriata, Section V, you outline a way for people to pay to move into a higher century.  I find myself divided on that part.  On one hand, I'm not sure that it's desirable to base such a thing on someone's ability and/or desire to shell out more money.  On the other hand, paying to improve one's standing -is- very Roman, and I'm sure we could use the money.  I'm really going to have to think about it before I can decide whether I can support that one or not.

Di vos incolumes custodiant!

________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <mailto:robert.woolwine%40gmail.com To: "mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:nova-roma%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 3:58 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata - VERY LONG


Avete Omnes,

It is my pleasure to summon for the 2nd time this year the Comitia
Centuriata of Nova Roma.

Presiding Magistrate:  Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix

Schedule:

1:00 pm AZ time July 10th 2013:  Contio (Debate Period begins)
1:00 pm AZ time July 19th 2013:  Contio (Debate Period Ends)
1:00 pm AZ time July  20th 2013:  Voting Period Begins
1:01 pm AZ time July 29th 2013:  Voting Period Ends
1:00 pm AZ Time July 30th 2013:  Call to Close

We will be bound by the restrictions of the Religious calendar when it
comes to voting:
No Voting on the 21st, 23rd and 25th of July.  Any further scheduling will
be announced 24 hours before the end of the Contio.

Agenda:

I - Repeal:  Lex Arminia de Ministris Provincialbus  -
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_ministris_provincialibus_(Nova_Roma)

II - Repeal - Lex Labiena de custodia perpetua fori -
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Labiena_de_custodia_perpetua_fori_(Nova_Roma)

III - Strike out and repeal section III of the Lex Arminia de Fovenda
Lingua Latina -
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_fovenda_lingua_latina_(Nova_Roma)

IV - CONSTITUTIONAL REVISION:  Revise Section II.C.2 of the Constitution of
Nova Roma to state the following:

Ordo Equester (Equestrian Order)  the Equestrian Order shall consist of
high standing citizens who excel in their service to the Res Publica.
Equestrians shallbe enrolled into the Ordo Equester as specified by laws
approved by the Comitia.

V Lex Cornelia de Apparitoribus

Introduction:  In order to prevent abuse of the Century/Census Point
(hereinafter referred to as CPs) system, to protect the electoral integrity
of the Comitia Centuriata and promote the proper exercise of the voice of
the People of Nova Roma, to insure that only an appropriate number of
apparitores be appointed by magistrates, to discourage duplicative and
inefficient bureaucracy, and to treat CPs as bona fide compensation for
services rendered, this lex places reasonable limits on the number of
apparitores, including scribae and accensi, that may be appointed.

DEFINITION:  Apparitores (Attendents).  Collectively, the apparitories
shall not be considered magistrates but rather shall be appointed into
various decuriae (corporations/cohors/Staffs) to fulfill those necessary
functions as shall be assigned to them by law enacted by one of the
comitia.  They shall include lictores, lictores curiati, scribae and
accensi. (Taken from the Constitution of Nova Roma IV.A.9)

Pursuant to Section IV. A. 9. Upon passage of this lex it is the policy of
Nova Roma to impose limits on magistrates who employ apparitories, to keep
the amount of apparitories consistent to the size of the organization.

I.                    Apparitores perform important functions in Nova
Roma.  This lex recommends that all citizens, especially new citizens gain
necessary experience concerning the inner workings of Nova Roma.  It is
equally important that individuals who volunteer their time and effort in
Nova Roma are best utilized for the organization; creating bureaucratic
nepotism is highly discouraged.

II.                  This lex limits the number of apparitores that
magistrates may utilize in the scope of their duties:

a.      Censor:                May employ a total of 5 individuals who
will earn CPs.

b.      Consul:                May employ a total of 5 individuals who
will earn CPs.

c.      Praetor:              May employ a total of 5 individuals who
will earn CPs.

d.      Curule Aedile:  May employ a total of 12 individuals who will earn
CPs.

e.      Plebian Aedile  May employ a total of 4 individuals who will earn
CPs.

f.        Tribune of the Plebs:      May employ a total of 2 individuals
who will earn CPs

g.

III.                It is the policy of Nova Roma that magistrates who are
elected and are bound by their oath of office should do the preponderance
of their work and not delegate all or most of their tasks to subordinates
and assistants (who are not bound by the Oath of office).

IV.                If Magistrates choose to exceed the number of *
Apparitores* in excess of section II of this lex those apparitories in
excess will not receive payment for services in the form of CPs.  This will
be determined by Section V of this lex.

V.                  Magistrates must disclose in the form of an
appropriately published edict, the names of those apparitores who will
receive CPs by June 1st.  If the Magistrate is a suffectus magistrate that
magistrate must disclose, in the form of an appropriately published edict
the names of those apparitories who will receive CPs within 60 days of
assuming office.

VI.                If a magistrate does not publish the edict no apparitore
will receive CPs for that position.  They will, for all intent and purposes
have volunteered their time and effort for no payment; nor will such time
investment be used to comply with any requirement for future position(s).
This is also applicable for those apparitories who continue service for a
magistrate and do not receive CPs.

VII.              A Citizen may serve in as many apparitore positions as he
or she wishes; however, the citizen will receive CPs for service in no more
than 3 cohors (staff) during 1 calendar year.

VIII.            When Nova Roma reaches an Assidui tax base of more than
300 Assidui citizens the presiding magistrate may petition the senate of
Nova Roma to adjust the staff sizes of magistrates.  The Senate may at that
time raise the staff members of individual magistrates or the entire
spectrum based on their discretion.  However, the Senate must take into
consideration the overall number of tax paying citizens as their primary
factor.

IX.                If a Magistrate is serving without a colleague that
magistrate is entitled to employ double the legal staff limit specified in
Section II of this lex.  However, if a suffectus magistrate is elected,
appointed or assumes the position the Magistrate must reduce his staff
within 30 days or publish an edict confirming which apparitores will be
given compensation of Century Points.

VI Lex Cornelia de Centuriata

Introduction: Nova Roma’s primary means of compensating its citizens for
service and citizenship has been through the utilization of Census Points
(hereinafter referred to as CPs).  The accumulation of CPs must be
carefully monitored to insure that all citizens receive neither more nor
less than the appropriate credit for their service. There are also areas in
Nova Roma life that have been ignored and hopefully this comprehensive law
will address some of those areas.

In accordance with Section II. E. 2 of the Constitution of Nova Roma, the
Lex Cornelia Centuriata is hereby enacted.

I. With the passage of this law all previous conflicting legislation is
hereby repealed. This includes but is not limited to: Lex Vedia Centuriata (
http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_centuriata_(Nova_Roma) ) and the Lex Fabia
Centuriata: http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Fabia_centuriata_(Nova_Roma)

II. Points will be awarded for all relevant events in each citizen’s record
based on the values established in this Lex. For elected positions,
citizens are awarded points for each term served. For example, if one was
Consul three times then that individual earns three times the CPs –
reflecting each term served.

III. It is the responsibility of each citizen to review their CPs details
and ensure that all of their previous service is represented. The Censors,
strive to be as accurate as they can be, but it is only with the active
cooperation and involvement of citizens that we can ensure the records are
as close to perfection as possible.

IV. If an individual resigns and later on – rejoins Nova Roma – they do not
receive the benefit of being awarded CPs for prior service when they rejoin
Nova Roma. They must start as if they are a brand new citizen, just as they
are.  However, if a returning citizen wishes to appeal this clause they
must appeal to the Censors who must both agree and then the appeal must be
approved by the Senate of Nova Roma.  If both the Censors and the Senate
approve the appeal the returning citizen will then be awarded back all
their previous earned Census Points.

A. Magistrates:

Censor: 30 CP

Consul: 30 CP

Praetor: 25 CP

Tribune of the Plebs: 25 CP

Curule Aedile: 20 CP

Plebian Aedile: 20 CP

Quaestor: 15 CP

Dictator: 30 CP

Interrex: 10 CP

Diribitors:  7 CP

B. Apparitores: Citizens may hold more than one position in a magistrate’s
staff but only get awarded points for one position within that staff. A
citizen may not receive century points for more than three such
simultaneously-held positions.

Accensus: 5 CP

Scribe: 5 CP

C. Provincial Positions: Citizens may hold more than one position within a
province – but only get points awarded for one – the highest ranked
position. If individuals are governor of more than 1 province they only get
points awarded for one province as they are stake-holders for the Senate.

Governor 25 CP

Accensus: 5 CP

Scribe: 5 CP

Provincial Sacerdos/Priest: 5 CP

D. Sacerdotes: Citizens may hold more than one position listed in this
subparagraph but only get points awarded for one – the highest ranked
position. Citizens who serve Nova Roma in one of the positions listed below
but also serve in a provincial sacerdos role may receive the points for
Provincial Sacerdos/Priest as stated in subparagraph C above in addition to
the points awarded for service in a position listed in this subparagraph.

Rex Sacrorum 20
Regina Sacrorum 20
Flamen Maior 20
Pontifex Maximus 20
Flamen Minor 15
Augur 15
Vestal 15
Other Sacerdos/Priest 5

For Provincial Sacerdotes see sub-paragraph C above.

E. Other Positions:

Senator: 20 CP

Pater Patriae: 10 CP (in addition to the CP awarded for Senator)

Princeps Senatus: 5 CP (in addition to the CP awarded for Senator)

The Senate shall have the authority to issue points for special appointed
positions, as well as rewards for special services performed on behalf of
the State. Such rewards must be announced at the time of the appointment,
and may not be awarded retroactively.

F. Sodalitates (officially sanctioned sodalitates only): Citizens may hold
more than one sodalitas position, but get points for the highest one only.
The positions and titles of officials included in each rank are defined by
each Head. A report must be filed to the Censores to determine the validity
of issuing CPs ensuring that the charter approved by the Senate is being
properly maintained and elections are held in  timely manner. It is the
responsibility of the Head of the Sodalitas to provide this information.

Head of a Sodalitas 10 CP

Person of High Authority: 6 CP

Person of Minor Authority: 3 CP

Member of Sodalitas: 1 CP

G. Orders, Citizenship and Candidates:

The Orders:

Ordo Equester - 10 CP

Length of citizenship:

Less than 6 months: 2 CP

Between 6 and 12 months: 5 CP

Between 1 year and 5 years: 10 CP

Between 5 years and 10 years: 20 CP

Between 10 years and 20 years: 40 CP

Unsuccesssfully run for office: 2 CP

It is not possible to accumulate CPs by unsuccessfully running for more
than one office per year.

H. Public Events: In an effort to recognize the time, effort, costs of
putting on public events the following is stipulated: A public event is one
that is identified as a gathering of more than 4 citizens (minors not
counted) for the purposes of facilitating an event in which Nova Roma plays
an important part this includes but not limited to: Religious rituals
occurring, discussion of Nova Roma events, Legionnaire reenactments, dining
and camaraderie. After Action reports (hereinafter referred to as AAR) are
required to be posted at the public fora as well as a copy is to be given
to the Censors. In the AAR, there needs to be the following: The organizer
of the event, participants, overview of the event. Some photographic
evidence and/or video documentation is to be provided to ensure that those
who participated are awarded the points. Each year a citizen may earn
points in this category for no more than 3 events.

Organizer of the Event: 5 CP

Participant: 2 CP

V. It is now also official policy in Nova Roma that we recognize the need
to raise additional revenue. In order to accomplish this Nova Roma
establishes the ability of citizens to purchase their way to increase the
power of the Vote. Citizens who pay the established fee, which will be
confirmed by the CFO of Nova Roma will be able to move up a class of
centuries to the next class level. In other words, if a citizen is
currently in a Class V level of centuries by paying the fee they will move
to the 4th class. This is available to all the classes except for citizens
already enrolled in the 1st and 2nd classes. This fee is a yearly recurring
fee.

            A.  The fee for the remainder of the year for 2013 will be
$10.00 US

            B.  The fee for the full year for 2014 will be:  $30.00 US

            C.  The fee for every year after that will be set by the Senate
via Senatus Consultum.

VII Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum

As a means of consolidating the laws regarding the eligibility of
individuals to serve in magisterial positions (Section V of the
Constitution), this law seeks to make it easier for citizens to know the
requirements to run and hold office as well as aid magistrates in cross
checking the eligibility of candidates who wish to run for office.

This lex repeals the following:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Iunia_de_Magistratuum_aetate_(Nova_Roma)

http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_cursu_honorum_(Nova_Roma)

I.                    To run for and assume the office of Censor one must
met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 30 years old.

Must be an Assidui (tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 4 years.

Must have previously held the position of Praetor or Consul for at least 6
months OR held the position of Senator of Nova Roma for a year.

      2.            To run for and assume the office of Consul one must
met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 30 years old

Must be an Assidui (tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 4 years.

Must have previously held the position of Praetor, or Tribune of the Plebs
for at least 6 months ; or have served as a Provincial Governor for at
least 3 years; or Senator for a year.

3.            To run for and assume the office of Praetor (NOT Provincial
Praetor) one must met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 27 years old.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 3 years.

Must have previously held one or more of the following positions for at
least six months:  Tribune of the Plebs, Plebian Aedile, Curule Aedile,
Quaestor, or Senator for 6 months.

3a.          To be appointed Provincial Governor one must met all of these
requirements:

Must be at least 27 years old

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 2 years.

Must have previously held one or more of the following positions for at
least six months:  Tribune of the Plebs, Plebian Aedile, Curule Aedile,
Quaestor, or a Senator for 6 months.  An applicant may substitute service
in an apparitore position for at least one year for the previous
requirements.

EXEMPTION:  In the case of this position only, the senate may waive the
previously held exemption if and only if no other candidate steps forward
to serve as Governor/Provincial Praetor of a province.

4.                  To run for and assume the office of Curule Aedile one
must met all of these requirements:

Must be at least 25 years old

Must be an Assidui (Tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 2 years.

Must have previously held the position of Plebian Aedile, Provincial
Governor, Quaestor or a Senator for at least 6 months.

5.            To run for and assume the office of Quaestor one must met all
of these requirements:

Must be at least 21 years old.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least a year.

Must have previously  have held the position of an Apparitore for at least
6 months of service.

6.            To be appointed as an election official, minor magistrate, or
Apparitore of Nova Roma as defined by IV.A.8 or IV.A.9 of the Constitution
of Nova Roma one must met all of these requirements*:

Must be at least 18 years of age.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must be a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 6 months.

*Serving in the positions that compose of item 6 are generally described to
be our entry level positions within Nova Roma and we encourage any and all
citizens to being their process of learning about Nova Roma and
volunteering their time in one of the many scribe/accensus positions that
are available both within one’s province and within the positions that
serve Nova Roma in its entirety (consul, censor, praetor.).

II.  Age Exemption Procedure

An age Exemption can be granted to a person by the approval of both Censors
and receiving an age dispensation via Senatus Consultum from the Senate of
Nova Roma via 2/3s approval of the Senate of Nova Roma

Citizens who wish to run for office must present the Consuls with their
petition for exemption to the age restriction.

In the case of the annual December magisterial elections, such petitions
must be presented to the Consuls no later than the 15th of October.

In the case of mid-year elections, such petitions must be presented to the
Consuls as soon as possible, but the presentation of such petitions shall
not be regarded as sufficient reason to postpone replacement elections more
than thirty days as required by the Constitution, and the right of underage
cives to run for office shall not override the Constitutional requirement
to fill vacant magistracies in a timely manner.

The petition will include the following information: a. Full Roman name b.
Length of Citizenship c. Prior experience within Nova Roma d. The office
for which the applicant intends to run

The Consuls shall present the petition to the Senate for a vote in such
manner as to allow due consideration of the petition.

III.            There shall be no exemption for citizens who are not in the
Assidui status or any other magisterial requirement unless directly
specified in this lex.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90961 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata - VERY LONG
Ave,

I appreciate the enthusasim. :) I really do. But, there are other parts
of the law that are innovative for NR.

1st, CPs earned for public events - this has never been offered before in
NR.
2nd - CPs for being member of a sodalitas - this will hopefully aid in
getting some of those organizations more active.

This is probably the most exhaustive CP law proposed in Nova Roma's history
that covers just about every aspect of NR life.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90962 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Salve(te).

There is no need to repeal this one at least. Simply build on it. That
is the Roman way.
meet, present tense

I take it that Lentulus did not see this; otherwise this howler would
have been corrected. Must be an assiduus / assidua, singular; assidui are
plural.
...meet...

assiduus / assidua; I don't think we have had any conjoined twins
running for office.
Some of these requirements here and below are a bit steep. How many
willing candidates did we find last year? How many citizens do we have who
are eligible? How many are willing to pay the extra tax to be allowed to
work harder?
...meet...
assiduus / assidua...
Plebeian...and of course these terms should be written in Latin:
aedilis plebis.

...meet...


assiduus (to be nice: assiduus / assidua)
Plebeian

Apparitor; we are speaking Latin, not Spanish or Italian here. The
singular is apparitor; the plural is apparitores.


must meet...
assiduus / assidua
Plebeian...

Um...Sulla dear; patricians cannot be plebeian aediles. Do you intend
to restrict offices solely to plebeians? The aedilis curulis should be a
patrician.

If one is merely a plebeian aedilis, how does one get into the Senate?
By swearing fealty to the TEA party? This is something which should attend
the praetura, not, say, the quaestura. In my early citizen days, the
curule aediles were allowed in the back benches of the Senate, but could not
vote; I very much doubt that the aediles plebis were allowed at all.
...meet, present tense, not preterite.

Assiduus / assidua
apparitor...


apparitor...


Why lower the existing age requirement of 21? Males complete puberty
around age 25, and females around 21/22; 18 year olds often are still in
high school. At best they are freshmen in college, and too immature for
that sort of thing. I remember the complaints when 20 year olds (going on
21) got exemptions for governorships and other posts.
assiduus / assidua
What? That compose Item 6 / which are included in Item 6...


Did you forget the (admittedly rare) positions of viatores to the
tribunes?

And when we have one censor, or one available and one incapacitated,
what then? Remember that Sabinus was alone...


Insert: are underage and...

Are these elections to be relegated to December, when only the last week
is free of calendar issues? November is much safer. I might add that the
turnout might not be very high, given the winter holidays and end of
semester activities.

When you set these requirements, did you omit the overlap previously
included, in that one does not have to have completed the minimum term by
the time of candidacy, only by the time of entering into office?
This seems to be in near-reverse order. First the name of the office,
then the Roman name, then the experience, then the length of citizenship.
Vale(te).

A. Tullia Scholastica
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90963 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Ave,

Lentulus saw every single draft. :)

Plebians can be Curule Aediles it has been that way throughout Nova Roman
history and in ancient Rome too. It is perfectly historically accurate.
Only the Plebian positions had the check that Patricians could not hold
them. It did not work the other way around.

Let's take elementary level Wikipedia:

*Aedile* (Latin <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latin_language from *aedes<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_ancient_Roman_religion#aedes ,* "temple building") was an office of the Roman
Republic<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Republic Based in Rome <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rome responsible for maintenance of public buildings and regulation of public
festivals <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festival enforce public order. There were two pairs of aediles. Two aediles were
from the ranks of plebeians <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plebeian the other were called *curule aediles* (*aediles curules*). The office of
the curule aedile was open to plebeians and patricians, and they were
considered curule magistrates<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magistratus_Curulis .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aedile

So, if you have some other evidence I would love to hear it.

And, our own current Curule Aedile is a Plebian!

Publius Annaeus Constantinus Placidus
http://www.novaroma.org/civitas/album?id=5934

So, dear, that was a near miss, please try again.

Vale,

Sulla





On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 11:41 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <
fororom@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90964 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Ave,

I will quote this:


Why lower the existing age requirement of 21? Males complete puberty
around age 25, and females around 21/22; 18 year olds often are still in
high school. At best they are freshmen in college, and too immature for
that sort of thing. I remember the complaints when 20 year olds (going on
21) got exemptions for governorships and other posts.


Sulla: But you were saying how Rogoators were entry level postions ;)
Look these are the entry level positions in Nova Roma and if we have
individuals who met this age requirement they should be encouraged to
stand. Quite frankly, there are some older folks who might be too
seasoned/opinionated to hold offices anymore, but I did not add maximum age
limits. I could have though.

Vale,

Sulla


On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 11:47 PM, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90965 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Ave Scholastica,

You quoted:


Are these elections to be relegated to December, when only the last week
is free of calendar issues? November is much safer. I might add that the
turnout might not be very high, given the winter holidays and end of
semester activities.

When you set these requirements, did you omit the overlap previously
included, in that one does not have to have completed the minimum term by
the time of candidacy, only by the time of entering into office?


Sulla: You are not taking into account individuals who want to run for
Plebian Aedile or Tribune of the Plebs. This gives ample time to deal with
those possible candidates as well.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 11:51 PM, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90966 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Here is the newest draft taken from my autosaved draft, though I did have
to fix the Plebeian since spellchecker did not catch it.

_______

As a means of consolidating the laws regarding the eligibility of
individuals to serve in magisterial positions (Section V of the
Constitution), this law seeks to make it easier for citizens to know the
requirements to run and hold office as well as aid magistrates in cross
checking the eligibility of candidates who wish to run for office.



This lex repeals the following:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Iunia_de_Magistratuum_aetate_(Nova_Roma)

http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Vedia_de_cursu_honorum_(Nova_Roma)

I. To run for and assume the office of Censor one must
meet all of these requirements:

Must be at least 30 years old.

Must be an Assidui (tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 4 years.

Must have previously held the position of Praetor or Consul for at least 6
months OR held the position of Senator of Nova Roma for a year.

2. To run for and assume the office of Consul one must
meet all of these requirements:

Must be at least 30 years old

Must be an Assidui (tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 4 years.

Must have previously held the position of Praetor, or Tribune of the Plebs
for at least 6 months ; or have served as a Provincial Governor for at
least 3 years; or Senator for a year.

3. To run for and assume the office of Praetor (NOT Provincial
Praetor) one must meet all of these requirements:

Must be at least 27 years old.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 3 years.

Must have previously held one or more of the following positions for at
least six months: Tribune of the Plebs, Plebeian Aedile, Curule Aedile,
Quaestor, or Senator for 6 months.

3a. To be appointed Provincial Governor one must meet all of these
requirements:

Must be at least 27 years old

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 2 years.

Must have previously held one or more of the following positions for at
least six months: Tribune of the Plebs, Plebeian Aedile, Curule Aedile,
Quaestor, or a Senator for 6 months. An applicant may substitute service
in an apparitore position for at least one year for the previous
requirements.

EXEMPTION: In the case of this position only, the senate may waive the
previously held exemption if and only if no other candidate steps forward
to serve as Governor/Provincial Praetor of a province.



4. To run for and assume the office of Curule Aedile one
must meet all of these requirements:

Must be at least 25 years old

Must be an Assidui (Tax payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 2 years.

Must have previously held the position of Plebeian Aedile, Provincial
Governor, Quaestor or a Senator for at least 6 months.

5. To run for and assume the office of Quaestor one must meet
all of these requirements:

Must be at least 21 years old.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least a year.

Must have previously have held the position of an Apparitore for at least
6 months of service.

6. To be appointed as an election official, minor magistrate, or
Apparitore of Nova Roma as defined by IV.A.8 or IV.A.9 of the Constitution
of Nova Roma one must meet all of these requirements*:

Must be at least 18 years of age.

Must be an Assidui (Tax Payer).

Must be a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 6 months.

*Serving in the positions that compose of item 6 are generally described to
be our entry level positions within Nova Roma and we encourage any and all
citizens to being their process of learning about Nova Roma and
volunteering their time in one of the many scribe/accensus positions that
are available both within one�s province and within the positions that
serve Nova Roma in its entirety (consul, censor, praetor.).



II. Age Exemption Procedure

An age Exemption can be granted to a person by the approval of both Censors
and receiving an age dispensation via Senatus Consultum from the Senate of
Nova Roma via 2/3s approval of the Senate of Nova Roma

Citizens who wish to run for office must present the Consuls with their
petition for exemption to the age restriction.

In the case of the annual December magisterial elections, such petitions
must be presented to the Consuls no later than the 15th of October.

In the case of mid-year elections, such petitions must be presented to the
Consuls as soon as possible, but the presentation of such petitions shall
not be regarded as sufficient reason to postpone replacement elections more
than thirty days as required by the Constitution, and the right of underage
cives to run for office shall not override the Constitutional requirement
to fill vacant magistracies in a timely manner.

The petition will include the following information: a. Full Roman name b.
Length of Citizenship c. Prior experience within Nova Roma d. The office
for which the applicant intends to run

The Consuls shall present the petition to the Senate for a vote in such
manner as to allow due consideration of the petition.

III. There shall be no exemption for citizens who are not in the
Assidui status or any other magisterial requirement unless directly
specified in this lex.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90967 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Quiritibus bonae voluntatis (si sint) S.P.D. A.Tullia Scholastica

This title is a bit odd...de centuriatá? Quid?
We call those Century Points.


Later on, you spell this as 'ensure,' which is more normal in this
sense. Consistency...

And no reduction after the term of service, as has long been the case?
previously earned...
Plebeian; who, however, does a lot less than the curules aediles, and
should perhaps get fewer century points.
And Maine is now allowing this?
And that, too?
And viator?
Getting people to run even for these sinecures is a difficult
proposition. Many in the sodalitates are not citizens.
This is poorly outlined.
What about the other orders: patrician and plebeian? Why should only
equestrian status be rewarded?
This should be broken down in the interest of retention.
Ditto here.
Ditto.
How does this fit in with citizenship duration?
legionary; legionnaires are guys with the likes of VFW hats.

This is a great way for people like you to get CPs: have a dinner with
a couple of your pals in Phoenix and have someone take some pix. Those who
live in more scattered conditions, or who live in places such as NYC and DC,
where there used to be a lot of citizens who did not appear at such events,
however, are being punished for their geographic and other isolation. That
does not seem fair.



And this is just plain outrageous. Let people earn their CPs, as they
always have done. It is quite bad enough that the economic situations of
the various countries are no longer taken into account when the taxes are
assessed, and that anyone who invests time in the NR government is punished
financially for that; now we allow wealth to determine what work should do.
This may be Roman, but it is not appropriate. The Romans lived in a very
different situation from ours. They also did things which we don't consider
very good: they had slaves, they had gladiatorial battles even to the
death, they disenfranchised women (of course some of you think that that is
just fine)...their sanitation was not the best despite frequent bathing...
formal education was comparatively rare, home construction seems to have
been rather shoddy, at least in the insulae, and there were many other
things many of us would find quite undesirable.
Vale(te).
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90968 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Ave,

My response below:

It will be bolded and say SULLA:


On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 12:39 AM, A. Tullia Scholastica <
fororom@...
*SULLA: This is what the previous versions were all called. So,
consistency, dear. :) *

*
*
*SULLA: Lentulus asked for this to be called CENSUS POINTS as they are
basically under the pervue of the Censors office. I saw the logic in his
request and changed it. If you have an issue, convince him. :)*


*
*
*SULLA: This was a recommendation of Caninus, and it simplifies the
process when it comes to the programming of the formula. One gets the
points and they never go away, as explained. Easier and simplier - also
mottos of my Consulship.*


*Sulla: They are both equally ranked essentially so, the points are
evenly. *
'

*Sulla: Yes, if it is executed right, it can be absolutely legal. Is your
memory failing? Caesar did say he has the legal method in order to have
the Dictatorship legally Maine Compliant he has said it both in the ML and
in the Senate. This is why it has not been removed from the Constitution
nor from this or previous leges that relate to it.*
* *

*SULLA: I can just change it to apparitore and be done with it.. State 5
points for any position that meets the apparitore position.*


*SULLA: I was undediced about having points for Patricians and Plebians -
so this draft omitted it pending feedback by the People.*


*SULLA: This is broken down sufficiently Under the current law it is
broken down even LESS: Length of citizenship: Less than 6 months - 2 CP
More than 6 months - 5 CP More than 12 months - 10 CP Each year after 1
year - + 10 CP (up to 50)*


*SULLA: I think it is clear you run unsuccessfully for an office you get 2
pts. How many offices do you think people can run for in a magisterial
election in a year? *


*Sulla: I am sure Lentulus would appreciate your comment as well,
considering I think Europe has more gatherings than just about anyone else
in Nova Roma. So are you accusing Lentulus of collusion and corruption
like you are trying to accuse me? Lentulus how do you feel about this
libel?*

'

*SULLA: WOW what part of voluntary do you not understand? If no one takes
up the offer so be it, but it is there in case someone wants it. *
*
*
*Whew...Done*
*
*
*Vale,*
*
*
*Sulla*
* *

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90969 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
A. Tullia Scholastica L. Cornelio Sullae quiritibus S.D.

You also have to fix assidui, which is plural. One candidate cannot be
plural. Assiduus is the masculine singular, and assidui is the masculine
plural. To be polite we may add the feminine, assidua and assiduae.

Now, I do not know Hebrew, but in linguistics we learned a few things
about Semitic languages, including the fact that there is what we call a
bound morpheme, -im, which indicates plurality in Hebrew. Apparently the
Arabic equivalent is '-in.' In any case, there are a few words I know which
might be able to indicate this difference: cherub, singular; cherubim,
plural; seraph, singular; seraphim, plural...and in Latin we have -i for
second declension masculine nouns and substantives, such as assiduus. The
final -us is dropped and replaced by a final -i. Assidui are plural, so you
cannot be an assidui, and Metellus cannot be an assidui, but both of you
together can be assidui. Aeternia can be an assidua, and both of you can be
assidui.

On another point, I am well aware that curule aediles can be plebeian,
but the way you worded this in the law, it looked as though one would have
to be a plebeian aedile before becoming a curule aedile, and that is not
possible for a patrician (as I see you understand). Some of the other
prerequisites simply do not work, either.

If Lentulus did not catch your Latin errors, it may be because he is
still rather preoccupied with school and other matters. Ain't no sech thing
as 'an assidui.' Ditto 'apparitore.' That is the ablative of apparitor,
and often is the object of a preposition, such as 'sine' or 'ab,' which
govern the ablative case. It also looks suspiciously Italian or Spanish,
but is not a Latin nominative case.

The English word 'met' is simple past tense, whereas we need 'meet,' the
present tense, in several occurrences in this text. Any of these errors
which made it to a final text would provoke great mirth among any normal
native English speaker...and among some who are *not* native English
speakers.

Valete.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90970 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Ave,

Thank you for this response. I will be pleased to take it to my staff for
their input. I trust their judgement in this matter.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 1:14 AM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90971 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
*aedes<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_ancient_Roman_religion#aedes the
cross
at
at
Senate
name
office
such
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90972 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Ave,

HOLDS UP SARCASM SIGN!!!!

I never realized how much you and Dexter have in common. But, I forget you
and Dexter are Literalists.

Vale,

Sulla


On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 1:36 AM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90973 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
M. Pompeius A. Tulliae Omnibusque SPD:

ATS = A. Tullia Scholastica
MPC = M. Pompeius Caninus


ATS: We call those Century Points.

MPC: Century Points is a rather odd term while the term Census Points
more accurately reflects the purpose of this points system. Changing the
name is a small part of the overall reform. The name change idea came
from Lentulus and I fully supported it.


ATS: And no reduction after the term of service, as has long been the
case?

MPC: Exactly. Simple. No guess work. No date calculations. No playing
with numbers. You do the service, you get the points and they are yours
to keep with no reductions and no manipulation. My idea but I believe
Lentulus also had the same thought.

ATS: This is poorly outlined.

MCP: Perhaps it should just be called 'Miscellaneous'?


ATS: What about the other orders: patrician and plebeian? Why should
only equestrian status be rewarded?

MPC: My idea. I purposely removed Patrician and Plebeian Census Points
in my draft revision and it seems to have stayed out of the draft
submitted for Contio. I can see no reason to grant points for either
Patrician or Plebeian status. Patricians are for the most part those who
joined early in Nova Roman history. It may seem fitting to grant them
some points for their forethought and providence in joining early and
selecting a Patrician gens but does it really deserve any reward? Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward.

ATS: This should be broken down in the interest of retention.

MCP: Actually, this is another thing I purposely left out of my draft
revision when I took a shot at simplifying the lex a bit during Consul
staff discussions. While granting some Census Points for time as a
citizen seems admirable on the surface, I see no need for it. It is a
reward for sticking around but there are dozens of citizens with 55 and
60 CPs who are Plebeians (55) or Patricians (60) who have earned 5 CP
(Plebeian) or 10 CP (Patrician) and got 50 CP for being a citizen for
five or more years. They have no CP for any activity. Now, if their is a
large number of folks who think we should continue with this tradition
of granting CP for social class and tine as a citizen, that's OK with
me. But to simplify things and to make Census Points better reflect
service and activity, I would like to see this tradition dropped.
Getting from 5th Class to 4th Class should require some actual effort
and making some contributions that benefit Nova Roma. The way things are
now pretty much anyone can move from 5th Class to 4th Class without
doing anything except pay the annual tax to keep assiduus status.


ATS: And this is just plain outrageous. Let people earn their CPs, as
the always have done. It is quite bad enough that the economic
situations of the various countries are no longer taken into account
when the taxes are assessed, and that anyone who invests time in the NR
government is punished financially for that; now we allow wealth to
determine what work should do. This may be Roman, but it is not
appropriate. The Romans lived in a very different situation from ours.
They also did things which we don't consider very good: they had slaves,
they had gladiatorial battles even to the death, they disenfranchised
women (of course some of you think that that is just fine)...their
sanitation was not the best despite frequent bathing... formal education
was comparatively rare, home construction seems to have been rather
shoddy, at least in the insulae, and there were many other things many
of us would find quite undesirable.

MPC: I am flexible on this even though I shared some credit for the
idea. This, my dear Magistra, is called 'change' - a necessary component
of reform. And one man's (or woman's) "Outrageous!" is another's "Right
on!". However, throwing slavery, misogyny and sanitation into the
discussion is an invalid argument, a non sequitur. If you don't like the
idea of allowing folks with some disposable income to contribute to the
treasury and receive a small reward in the form of moving up one Class
for a year then let's just leave it at that. That all this really is: a
person can buy their way from the 5th Class to the 4th Class or from the
4th Class to the 3rd Class for a period of one year. They can only buy
their way up one class: they cannot buy their way into the 2nd Class or
1st Class and they cannot buy their way from the 5th Class to the 3rd
Class. I fail to see how this is outrageous or even a bad idea. And as
far as the economic situations in various countries - we are all in a
global economic lull and the taxes are quite low, unless one is a
long-time citizen who has done a fair amount of service and thus worked
one's way into the 1st or 2nd Class. But that is a choice. The more one
contributes through service, the more one is expected to contribute to
the treasury as an example and as a benefactor. If this is the true
source of your outrage then that is another fundamental reform that will
need to be discussed and it is quite separate from the current
discussion regarding Census Points. But if you are genuinely concerned
about the relative value of the taxes paid based on national economic
conditions then we could do like the RPR did with their taxes this year
and adjust the rates for various countries based on the GDP per capita
from the CIA Fact Book but data from many countries is from 2008 or
earlier - before the recession - and many countries do not have 2012
data available for making good comparisons. However, I think you are
looking for something even more closely linked to relative buying power
and disposable income than GDP per capita. Anyway, that is something to
discuss with the CFO in the Senate since tax rates are set there. It's
not something directly related to the discuss of this lex.

Optime vale et valete!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90974 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Cn. Lentulus quaestor Quiritibus et praesertim A. Scholasticae viragini censoriae atque M. Pompeio tribuno plebis s. p. d.

It has been a while, Quirites, that I wrote a letter here in a political argument, but as this rogatio Cornelia of consul L. Sulla includes some of my ideas, I see it important to explain the reasons behind some of the proposed changes. Bur remember, Quirites, that this is just a rogatio at this point, which means "proposal" or "draft", and I am still in the middle of conversations with the consul and other accensi in the cohors of the consular office, so some minor changes can be expected.

First of all, I start my letter with an answer to Tullia Scholastica, virago censoria, about the Latin errors left in the draft. I am very sorry that I did not point out the errors to the consul while I was aware of them. Why this could happen is very simple. The consular cohors is so busy with various debates and discussions and I have so many things to argue about, that linguistical questions became a secondary thing. I intended to inform the consul about Latin mistakes only when everything about the content of the law is agreed upon. But rest assured, clarissima Tullia Scholastica, femina illustrissima, that I will do my best to avoid the Latin errors may remain in the final drafts. Some of the laws don't even have their final name. For example, this law about the CP points, will of course not be named "lex Cornelia centuriata", even less "lex Cornelia de centuriata", but something like "lex Cornelia de punctis censualibus". Or "lex Cornelia
censualis", or some other. I will talk about this with the consul.

And now, let's see the rest of the questions:



more accurately reflects the purpose of this points system. Changing the
name is a small part of the overall reform. The name change idea came
from Lentulus and I fully supported it. <<<


Yes, it is a very educational and academic improvement and progress from the previous terminology. The Roman phrase that referred to a citizen's status in the classes and centuries system was this: "censum primae classis /secundae classis / tertiae classis etc. habere". In English: "to have the census of the first class, second class, third class etc". The Romans called their wealth and other factors that determined class allocation as "census", too, using the same word as for the conscription and registration of citizens. So if we want to use points as determining factors of class allocation, we have to call these points CENSUS POINTS, instead of century points. To some it seems just a play with the words, but actually we are EDUCATING people with using such words. Education is one of the primary missions of Nova Roma, and as a non-profit organization, it IS our primary mission. If a "muggle" outside of Nova Roma reads in a letter of Cicero that C.
Varius's census is 300.000 sestertii, he just looks confused and starts searching in the Wikipedia what the heck Cicero was talking about. But if a Nova Roman reads the same passage, he just smiles and confidently says, "Oh yes, my census is 46 points, I am in this and this class,  I know Cicero speaks about the class allocation factor of C. Varius... This has to be the focus of Nova Roma: to make people understand Rome like nothing else makes them. This should be the difference between "muggles" and Nova Romans, we breath the same air that Cicero, while the others just read and talk about the Romans, we live the life of the Romans. So I recommend this change into your support, Tullia clarissima.



ATS: And no reduction after the term of service, as has long been the
case?

MPC: Exactly. Simple. No guess work. No date calculations. No playing
with numbers. You do the service, you get the points and they are yours
to keep with no reductions and no manipulation. My idea but I believe
Lentulus also had the same thought. <<<


It was funny, because I had this idea from the very first month that I entered Nova Roma, and M. Pompeius suggested the very same. It is much more reasonable to keep the same amount of CP while in office and even after the office expired, because we get the points as recognition for our servive. Now why would our service be worth less AFTER our term expired, or more BEFORE our term expired? It's not only reasonable but also simpler. We don't need a complicate calculation where a simpler one works just well.



ATS: This is poorly outlined.

MCP: Perhaps it should just be called 'Miscellaneous'? <<<


Well, here I have a problem, but since there are so many debates about so many things in the consular cohors that one can not easily keep the pace even in the most important issues, I haven't yet brought it up. Patricianship and plebeianship aren't in fact "orders". Rome had originally one order the equestrian order, and the plebeian and patrician status was considered an "ethnicity" or, in lack of better word, "nationality". Romans talk about patrician and plebeian "genus", or "natio" or
"stirps" or "gens". All terms essentially mean "genre", "clan",
"nationality", "ethnicity". As to how we should term them in Nova Roma, I'm still thinking, but if I have a solid idea, I'll communicate it to the consular office; currently "genus" is my favourite (an example for this terminology is in Livy, Book VI. 34.).

The term "plebeian/patrician order" is in the Consitution unfortunately, but if we just used here in this Census Point law the words "patricians" and "plebeians", and later we changed the Consitution to read as "genus patricium" and "genus plebeium", everything would be "in order" :)



ATS: What about the other orders: patrician and plebeian? Why should
only equestrian status be rewarded?

MPC: My idea. I purposely removed Patrician and Plebeian Census Points
in my draft revision and it seems to have stayed out of the draft
submitted for Contio. I can see no reason to grant points for either
Patrician or Plebeian status. Patricians are for the most part those who
joined early in Nova Roman history. It may seem fitting to grant them
some points for their forethought and providence in joining early and
selecting a Patrician gens but does it really deserve any reward? Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward. <<<


I agree with Pompeius, although I could accept a little symbolical compensation for patricians, since they have limited rights in our Roman republican system. Patricians are slightly "oppressed" by the plebeians (and as a matter of historical accuracy, very
well so), because plebeians have an additional fully-fledged comitia, they have the powerful
plebeian tribunes, almost second consuls, who can veto and legislate, they have the plebeian aediles etc.. so being a plebeian is a HUGE advantage. Maybe
the patricians could get a symbolic compensation of 1 CP or 10 CP at
maximum.

In the next paragraph, M. Pompeius, in agreement with Tullia Scholastica, discussed that Census Points should not be granted for length of citizenship:



citizen seems admirable on the surface, I see no need for it. It is a
reward for sticking around but there are dozens of citizens with 55 and
60 CPs who are Plebeians (55) or Patricians (60) who have earned 5 CP
(Plebeian) or 10 CP (Patrician) and got 50 CP for being a citizen for
five or more years. They have no CP for any activity. Now, if their is a
large number of folks who think we should continue with this tradition
of granting CP for social class and tine as a citizen, that's OK with
me. But to simplify things and to make Census Points better reflect
service and activity, I would like to see this tradition dropped. <<<


I can agree with that. Yet I think it is beneficial to let regular citizens advance a little over the time as they spend here years and years. Because, while I admit that it is indeed good scribae or magistrates are primarily rewarded for their hard work, I don't want that only bureacrats and politicians could advance upwards in the classes. This is where the time factor becomes beneficial. A regular citizen, who votes, who pays taxes, who participate in discussions or gets active in provincial events, should also be allowed to progress in the classes, since it is not the bureaucrats that should be given all power, voting weight, and control over the membership, but it's primarily the regular, apolitical membership that should have the control and power over the bureaucrats and political class. Politicians are crazy, Nova Roman politicians are doubleplus crazy, so I think it is important to give some points for regular members who do not serve in
offices. And an easy and tried way to give them some CP is to give a small limited amount of CP for time spent in NR.



and making some contributions that benefit Nova Roma. The way things are
now pretty much anyone can move from 5th Class to 4th Class without
doing anything except pay the annual tax to keep assiduus status. <<<


I have personally no problem with that. To me, from Roman point of view, there is nothing special in the classes from 5th to 2nd. Where I think hard work should be needed as a requirement, it's the entrance to the 1st class. And where the really splendid achievements should be needed it's the ordo equester. To get, for example, into the 3rd class from 4th class, in my view, there should not be any kind of special effort other than regular taxpayment, and holding 1-2 minor positions.

Below you can see, Quirites, what Tullia wrote about the new idea of allowing citizens to advance one class by an extra payment:



the always have done. It is quite bad enough that the economic
situations of the various countries are no longer taken into account
when the taxes are assessed, and that anyone who invests time in the NR
government is punished financially for that; now we allow wealth to
determine what work should do. This may be Roman, but it is not
appropriate. The Romans lived in a very different situation from ours.
They also did things which we don't consider very good: they had slaves,
they had gladiatorial battles even to the death, they disenfranchised
women (of course some of you think that that is just fine)...their
sanitation was not the best despite frequent bathing... formal education
was comparatively rare, home construction seems to have been rather
shoddy, at least in the insulae, and there were many other things many
of us would find quite undesirable. <<<


M. Pompeius tribunus plebis has answered these concerns, I just want to add three things.

First, I agree with Pomeius that this is a very modest change from the current system, and only allows people to move to the 4th class from the 5th, or to the 3rd class from the 4th. Not really a change, and the elevation of rank is mostly ceremonial, since the voting power of these classes do not differ greatly. It's harmless, and if some people are motovated by this to contribute a little more to the treasury, then why not?

Second, I agree with the most respected Tullia that the previous tax system was more sympathetic, friendly, international and amiable when it was based on GDP. A lowest limit and highest limit should have been set up (with a not bigger difference in the two limits than 3 times of the lowest amount), and between the two limits the taxes could vary from country to country. But this is not the current trend, and it's not the greatest problem with NR either. But it's not in the scope of this law.

Third, I also agree that we should not have higher taxes for each single class. Do we really need to ask a different amount of money from each class? One's class allocation depends on the number
of CP one has. But why do
you have to pay more and more, as you have worked more and more? I
recognize that the highest ranking citizens, the 1st class, should be
required to contribute financially more. But why to ask more money from a
3rd class citizen than from a 4th class citizen? What if he was content
with being a 4th class citizen, and never wanted to climb up to the 3rd
class? What if he does not want to pay more (for admittance to the 3rd
class), but he really wants to pay the tax for the 4th class. I think it would be enough to have 3 levels of taxes, one for the 5th class, a higher tax rate for classes 4-2, and a highest rate for the 1st class. I have mentioned this in the Consular Office, too, so there is not much more that I can do.

With this, I have finished my answers. If some of the refinements under discussions, including Latin corrections, will be included in the law, I think it will make a great improvement on the current system, and I will definitely encourage people to support this rogatio with their votes.

Curate, uti valeatis!

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, pontifex;
QUAESTOR CONSULARIS
L. COR. SULLAE FELICIS COS
MAGISTER ARANEARIUS ETC...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90975 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Cn. Lentulus quaestor Quiritibus et praesertim A. Scholasticae viragini censoriae atque M. Pompeio tribuno plebis s. p. d.

It
has been a while, Quirites, that I wrote a letter here in a political
argument, but as this rogatio Cornelia of consul L. Sulla includes some
of my ideas, I see it important to explain the reasons behind some of
the proposed changes. Bur remember, Quirites, that this is just a
rogatio at this point, which means "proposal" or "draft", and I am still
in the middle of conversations with the consul and other accensi in the
cohors of the consular office, so some minor changes can be expected.

First
of all, I start my letter with an answer to Tullia Scholastica, virago
censoria, about the Latin errors left in the draft. I am very sorry that
I did not point out the errors to the consul while I was
aware of them. Why this could happen is very simple. The consular
cohors is so busy with various debates and discussions and I have so
many things to argue about, that linguistical questions became a
secondary thing. I intended to inform the consul about Latin mistakes
only when everything about the content of the law is agreed upon. But
rest assured, clarissima Tullia Scholastica, femina illustrissima, that I
will do my best to avoid the Latin errors may remain in the final
drafts. Some of the laws don't even have their final name. For example,
this law about the CP points, will of course not be named "lex Cornelia
centuriata", even less "lex Cornelia de centuriata", but something like
"lex Cornelia de punctis censualibus". Or "lex Cornelia censualis", or
some other. I will talk about this with the consul.

And now, let's see the rest of the questions:



more accurately reflects the purpose of this points system. Changing the
name is a small part of the overall reform. The name change idea came
from Lentulus and I fully supported it. <<<


Yes,
it is a very educational and academic improvement and progress from the
previous terminology. The Roman phrase that referred to a citizen's
status in the classes and centuries system was this: "censum primae
classis /secundae classis / tertiae classis etc. habere". In English:
"to have the census of the first class, second class, third class etc".
The Romans called their wealth and other factors that determined class
allocation as "census", too, using the same word as for the conscription
and registration of citizens. So if we want to use points as
determining factors of class allocation, we have to call these points
CENSUS POINTS, instead of century points. To some it seems just a play
with the words, but actually we are EDUCATING people with using such
words. Education is one of the primary missions of Nova Roma, and as a
non-profit organization, it IS our primary mission. If a "muggle"
outside of Nova Roma reads in a letter of Cicero that C. Varius's census
is 300.000 sestertii, he just looks confused and starts searching in
the Wikipedia what the heck Cicero was talking about. But if a Nova
Roman reads the same passage, he just smiles and confidently says, "Oh
yes, my census is 46 points, I am in this and this class,  I know Cicero
speaks about the class allocation factor of C. Varius... This has to be
the focus of Nova Roma: to make people understand Rome like nothing
else makes them. This should be the difference between "muggles" and
Nova Romans, we breath the same air that Cicero, while the others just
read and talk about the Romans, we live the life of the Romans. So I
recommend this change into your support, Tullia clarissima.



ATS: And no reduction after the term of service, as has long been the
case?

MPC: Exactly. Simple. No guess work. No date calculations. No playing
with numbers. You do the service, you get the points and they are yours
to keep with no reductions and no manipulation. My idea but I believe
Lentulus also had the same thought. <<<


It was funny, because I had this idea from the very first month that I
entered Nova Roma, and M. Pompeius suggested the very same. It is much
more reasonable to keep the same amount of CP while in office and even
after the office expired, because we get the points as recognition for
our servive. Now why would our service be worth less AFTER our term
expired, or more BEFORE our term expired? It's not only reasonable but
also simpler. We don't need a complicate calculation where a simpler one works just well.



ATS: This is poorly outlined.

MCP: Perhaps it should just be called 'Miscellaneous'? <<<


Well,
here I have a problem, but since there are so many debates about so
many things in the consular cohors that one can not easily keep the pace
even in the most important issues, I haven't yet brought it up.
Patricianship and plebeianship aren't in fact "orders". Rome had
originally one order the equestrian order, and the plebeian and
patrician status was considered an "ethnicity" or, in lack of better
word, "nationality". Romans talk about patrician and plebeian "genus",
or "natio" or
"stirps" or "gens". All terms essentially mean "genre", "clan",
"nationality", "ethnicity". As to how we should term them in Nova Roma,
I'm still thinking, but if I have a solid idea, I'll communicate it to
the consular office; currently "genus" is my favourite (an example for
this terminology is in Livy, Book VI. 34.).

The term
"plebeian/patrician order" is in the Consitution unfortunately, but if
we just used here in this Census Point law the words "patricians" and
"plebeians", and later we changed the Consitution to read as "genus
patricium" and "genus plebeium", everything would be "in order" :)



ATS: What about the other orders: patrician and plebeian? Why should
only equestrian status be rewarded?

MPC: My idea. I purposely removed Patrician and Plebeian Census Points
in my draft revision and it seems to have stayed out of the draft
submitted for Contio. I can see no reason to grant points for either
Patrician or Plebeian status. Patricians are for the most part those who
joined early in Nova Roman history. It may seem fitting to grant them
some points for their forethought and providence in joining early and
selecting a Patrician gens but does it really deserve any reward? Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward. <<<


I
agree with Pompeius, although I could accept a little symbolical
compensation for patricians, since they have limited rights in our Roman
republican system. Patricians are slightly "oppressed" by the plebeians (and as a matter of historical accuracy, very
well so), because plebeians have an additional fully-fledged comitia, they have the powerful
plebeian tribunes, almost second consuls, who can veto and legislate, they have the plebeian aediles etc.. so being a plebeian is a HUGE advantage. Maybe
the patricians could get a symbolic compensation of 1 CP or 10 CP at
maximum.

In the next paragraph, M. Pompeius, in agreement with Tullia Scholastica, discussed that Census Points should not be
granted for length of citizenship:



citizen seems admirable on the surface, I see no need for it. It is a
reward for sticking around but there are dozens of citizens with 55 and
60 CPs who are Plebeians (55) or Patricians (60) who have earned 5 CP
(Plebeian) or 10 CP (Patrician) and got 50 CP for being a citizen for
five or more years. They have no CP for any activity. Now, if their is a
large number of folks who think we should continue with this tradition
of granting CP for social class and tine as a citizen, that's OK with
me. But to simplify things and to make Census Points better reflect
service and activity, I would like to see this tradition dropped. <<<


I
can agree with that. Yet I think it is beneficial to let regular
citizens advance a little over the time as they spend here years and
years. Because, while I admit that it is indeed good scribae or
magistrates are primarily rewarded for their hard work, I don't want
that only bureacrats and politicians could advance upwards in the
classes. This is where the time factor becomes beneficial. A regular
citizen, who votes, who pays taxes, who participate in discussions or
gets active in provincial events, should also be allowed to progress in
the classes, since it is not the bureaucrats that should be given all
power, voting weight, and control over the membership, but it's
primarily the regular, apolitical membership that should have the
control and power over the bureaucrats and political class. Politicians
are crazy, Nova Roman politicians are
doubleplus crazy, so I think it is important to give some points for
regular members who do not serve in offices. And an easy and tried way
to give them some CP is to give a small limited amount of CP for time
spent in NR.



and making some contributions that benefit Nova Roma. The way things are
now pretty much anyone can move from 5th Class to 4th Class without
doing anything except pay the annual tax to keep assiduus status. <<<


I
have personally no problem with that. To me, from Roman point of view,
there is nothing special in the classes from 5th to 2nd. Where I think
hard work should be needed as a requirement, it's the entrance to the
1st class. And where the really splendid achievements should be needed
it's the ordo equester. To get, for example, into the 3rd class from 4th
class, in my view, there should not be any kind of special effort other
than regular taxpayment, and holding 1-2 minor positions.

Below you can see, Quirites, what Tullia wrote about the new idea of allowing citizens to advance one class by an extra payment:



the always have done. It is quite bad enough that the economic
situations of the various countries are no longer taken into account
when the taxes are assessed, and that anyone who invests time in the NR
government is punished financially for that; now we allow wealth to
determine what work should do. This may be Roman, but it is not
appropriate. The Romans lived in a very different situation from ours.
They also did things which we don't consider very good: they had slaves,
they had gladiatorial battles even to the death, they disenfranchised
women (of course some of you think that that is just fine)...their
sanitation was not the best despite frequent bathing... formal education
was comparatively rare, home construction seems to have been rather
shoddy, at least in the insulae, and there were many other things many
of us would find quite undesirable. <<<


M. Pompeius tribunus plebis has answered these concerns, I just want to add three things.

First,
I agree with Pomeius that this is a very modest change from the current
system, and only allows people to move to the 4th class from the 5th,
or to the 3rd class from the 4th. Not really a change, and the elevation
of rank is mostly ceremonial, since the voting power of these classes
do not differ greatly. It's harmless, and if some people are motovated
by this to contribute a little more to the treasury, then why not?

Second,
I agree with the most respected Tullia that the previous tax system was
more sympathetic, friendly, international and amiable when it was based
on GDP. A lowest limit and highest limit should have been set up (with a
not bigger difference in the two limits than 3 times of the lowest
amount), and between the two limits the taxes could vary from country to
country. But this is not the current trend, and it's not the greatest
problem with NR either. But it's not in the scope of this law.

Third,
I also agree that we should not have higher taxes for each single
class. Do we really need to ask a different amount of money from each
class? One's class allocation depends on the number
of CP one has. But why do
you have to pay more and more, as you have worked more and more? I
recognize that the highest ranking citizens, the 1st class, should be
required to contribute financially more. But why to ask more money from a
3rd class citizen than from a 4th class citizen? What if he was content
with being a 4th class citizen, and never wanted to climb up to the 3rd
class? What if he does not want to pay more (for admittance to the 3rd
class), but he really wants to pay the tax for the 4th class. I think it
would be enough to have 3 levels of taxes, one for the 5th class, a
higher tax rate for classes 4-2, and a highest rate for the 1st class. I
have mentioned this in the Consular Office, too, so there is not much
more that I can do.

With this, I have finished my answers. If
some of the refinements under discussions, including Latin corrections,
will be included in the law, I think it will make a great improvement on
the current system, and I will definitely encourage people to support
this rogatio with their votes.

Curate, uti valeatis!

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, pontifex;
QUAESTOR CONSULARIS
L. COR. SULLAE FELICIS COS
MAGISTER ARANEARIUS ETC...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90976 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Technical question
Salvete, qui has res sciunt!

Greetings to those who know such things.

My question is the following: how can I send an email to this Yahoo Group so that it does not ruin my edited text? I observed that other mailing lists don't do that just this mailing list. Is there perhaps a setting on the Yahoo page that enables edited texts?

If you see my post below, you see that, for example, the word "It" is scrambled to the top of the section, like every first word in every section. How can I avoid such kind of problems?

VALETE!
Lentulus





________________________________
Da: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@... A: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Inviato: Giovedì 11 Luglio 2013 13:28
Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion



 
Cn. Lentulus quaestor Quiritibus et praesertim A. Scholasticae viragini censoriae atque M. Pompeio tribuno plebis s. p. d.

It
has been a while, Quirites, that I wrote a letter here in a political
argument, but as this rogatio Cornelia of consul L. Sulla includes some
of my ideas, I see it important to explain the reasons behind some of
the proposed changes. Bur remember, Quirites, that this is just a
rogatio at this point, which means "proposal" or "draft", and I am still
in the middle of conversations with the consul and other accensi in the
cohors of the consular office, so some minor changes can be expected.

First
of all, I start my letter with an answer to Tullia Scholastica, virago
censoria, about the Latin errors left in the draft. I am very sorry that
I did not point out the errors to the consul while I was
aware of them. Why this could happen is very simple. The consular
cohors is so busy with various debates and discussions and I have so
many things to argue about, that linguistical questions became a
secondary thing. I intended to inform the consul about Latin mistakes
only when everything about the content of the law is agreed upon. But
rest assured, clarissima Tullia Scholastica, femina illustrissima, that I
will do my best to avoid the Latin errors may remain in the final
drafts. Some of the laws don't even have their final name. For example,
this law about the CP points, will of course not be named "lex Cornelia
centuriata", even less "lex Cornelia de centuriata", but something like
"lex Cornelia de punctis censualibus". Or "lex Cornelia censualis", or
some other. I will talk about this with the consul.

And now, let's see the rest of the questions:

more accurately reflects the purpose of this points system. Changing the
name is a small part of the overall reform. The name change idea came
from Lentulus and I fully supported it. <<<

Yes,
it is a very educational and academic improvement and progress from the
previous terminology. The Roman phrase that referred to a citizen's
status in the classes and centuries system was this: "censum primae
classis /secundae classis / tertiae classis etc. habere". In English:
"to have the census of the first class, second class, third class etc".
The Romans called their wealth and other factors that determined class
allocation as "census", too, using the same word as for the conscription
and registration of citizens. So if we want to use points as
determining factors of class allocation, we have to call these points
CENSUS POINTS, instead of century points. To some it seems just a play
with the words, but actually we are EDUCATING people with using such
words. Education is one of the primary missions of Nova Roma, and as a
non-profit organization, it IS our primary mission. If a "muggle"
outside of Nova Roma reads in a letter of Cicero that C. Varius's census
is 300.000 sestertii, he just looks confused and starts searching in
the Wikipedia what the heck Cicero was talking about. But if a Nova
Roman reads the same passage, he just smiles and confidently says, "Oh
yes, my census is 46 points, I am in this and this class,  I know Cicero
speaks about the class allocation factor of C. Varius... This has to be
the focus of Nova Roma: to make people understand Rome like nothing
else makes them. This should be the difference between "muggles" and
Nova Romans, we breath the same air that Cicero, while the others just
read and talk about the Romans, we live the life of the Romans. So I
recommend this change into your support, Tullia clarissima.

ATS: And no reduction after the term of service, as has long been the
case?

MPC: Exactly. Simple. No guess work. No date calculations. No playing
with numbers. You do the service, you get the points and they are yours
to keep with no reductions and no manipulation. My idea but I believe
Lentulus also had the same thought. <<<

It was funny, because I had this idea from the very first month that I
entered Nova Roma, and M. Pompeius suggested the very same. It is much
more reasonable to keep the same amount of CP while in office and even
after the office expired, because we get the points as recognition for
our servive. Now why would our service be worth less AFTER our term
expired, or more BEFORE our term expired? It's not only reasonable but
also simpler. We don't need a complicate calculation where a simpler one works just well.

ATS: This is poorly outlined.

MCP: Perhaps it should just be called 'Miscellaneous'? <<<

Well,
here I have a problem, but since there are so many debates about so
many things in the consular cohors that one can not easily keep the pace
even in the most important issues, I haven't yet brought it up.
Patricianship and plebeianship aren't in fact "orders". Rome had
originally one order the equestrian order, and the plebeian and
patrician status was considered an "ethnicity" or, in lack of better
word, "nationality". Romans talk about patrician and plebeian "genus",
or "natio" or
"stirps" or "gens". All terms essentially mean "genre", "clan",
"nationality", "ethnicity". As to how we should term them in Nova Roma,
I'm still thinking, but if I have a solid idea, I'll communicate it to
the consular office; currently "genus" is my favourite (an example for
this terminology is in Livy, Book VI. 34.).

The term
"plebeian/patrician order" is in the Consitution unfortunately, but if
we just used here in this Census Point law the words "patricians" and
"plebeians", and later we changed the Consitution to read as "genus
patricium" and "genus plebeium", everything would be "in order" :)

ATS: What about the other orders: patrician and plebeian? Why should
only equestrian status be rewarded?

MPC: My idea. I purposely removed Patrician and Plebeian Census Points
in my draft revision and it seems to have stayed out of the draft
submitted for Contio. I can see no reason to grant points for either
Patrician or Plebeian status. Patricians are for the most part those who
joined early in Nova Roman history. It may seem fitting to grant them
some points for their forethought and providence in joining early and
selecting a Patrician gens but does it really deserve any reward? Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward. <<<

I
agree with Pompeius, although I could accept a little symbolical
compensation for patricians, since they have limited rights in our Roman
republican system. Patricians are slightly "oppressed" by the plebeians (and as a matter of historical accuracy, very
well so), because plebeians have an additional fully-fledged comitia, they have the powerful
plebeian tribunes, almost second consuls, who can veto and legislate, they have the plebeian aediles etc.. so being a plebeian is a HUGE advantage. Maybe
the patricians could get a symbolic compensation of 1 CP or 10 CP at
maximum.

In the next paragraph, M. Pompeius, in agreement with Tullia Scholastica, discussed that Census Points should not be
granted for length of citizenship:

citizen seems admirable on the surface, I see no need for it. It is a
reward for sticking around but there are dozens of citizens with 55 and
60 CPs who are Plebeians (55) or Patricians (60) who have earned 5 CP
(Plebeian) or 10 CP (Patrician) and got 50 CP for being a citizen for
five or more years. They have no CP for any activity. Now, if their is a
large number of folks who think we should continue with this tradition
of granting CP for social class and tine as a citizen, that's OK with
me. But to simplify things and to make Census Points better reflect
service and activity, I would like to see this tradition dropped. <<<

I
can agree with that. Yet I think it is beneficial to let regular
citizens advance a little over the time as they spend here years and
years. Because, while I admit that it is indeed good scribae or
magistrates are primarily rewarded for their hard work, I don't want
that only bureacrats and politicians could advance upwards in the
classes. This is where the time factor becomes beneficial. A regular
citizen, who votes, who pays taxes, who participate in discussions or
gets active in provincial events, should also be allowed to progress in
the classes, since it is not the bureaucrats that should be given all
power, voting weight, and control over the membership, but it's
primarily the regular, apolitical membership that should have the
control and power over the bureaucrats and political class. Politicians
are crazy, Nova Roman politicians are
doubleplus crazy, so I think it is important to give some points for
regular members who do not serve in offices. And an easy and tried way
to give them some CP is to give a small limited amount of CP for time
spent in NR.

and making some contributions that benefit Nova Roma. The way things are
now pretty much anyone can move from 5th Class to 4th Class without
doing anything except pay the annual tax to keep assiduus status. <<<

I
have personally no problem with that. To me, from Roman point of view,
there is nothing special in the classes from 5th to 2nd. Where I think
hard work should be needed as a requirement, it's the entrance to the
1st class. And where the really splendid achievements should be needed
it's the ordo equester. To get, for example, into the 3rd class from 4th
class, in my view, there should not be any kind of special effort other
than regular taxpayment, and holding 1-2 minor positions.

Below you can see, Quirites, what Tullia wrote about the new idea of allowing citizens to advance one class by an extra payment:

the always have done. It is quite bad enough that the economic
situations of the various countries are no longer taken into account
when the taxes are assessed, and that anyone who invests time in the NR
government is punished financially for that; now we allow wealth to
determine what work should do. This may be Roman, but it is not
appropriate. The Romans lived in a very different situation from ours.
They also did things which we don't consider very good: they had slaves,
they had gladiatorial battles even to the death, they disenfranchised
women (of course some of you think that that is just fine)...their
sanitation was not the best despite frequent bathing... formal education
was comparatively rare, home construction seems to have been rather
shoddy, at least in the insulae, and there were many other things many
of us would find quite undesirable. <<<

M. Pompeius tribunus plebis has answered these concerns, I just want to add three things.

First,
I agree with Pomeius that this is a very modest change from the current
system, and only allows people to move to the 4th class from the 5th,
or to the 3rd class from the 4th. Not really a change, and the elevation
of rank is mostly ceremonial, since the voting power of these classes
do not differ greatly. It's harmless, and if some people are motovated
by this to contribute a little more to the treasury, then why not?

Second,
I agree with the most respected Tullia that the previous tax system was
more sympathetic, friendly, international and amiable when it was based
on GDP. A lowest limit and highest limit should have been set up (with a
not bigger difference in the two limits than 3 times of the lowest
amount), and between the two limits the taxes could vary from country to
country. But this is not the current trend, and it's not the greatest
problem with NR either. But it's not in the scope of this law.

Third,
I also agree that we should not have higher taxes for each single
class. Do we really need to ask a different amount of money from each
class? One's class allocation depends on the number
of CP one has. But why do
you have to pay more and more, as you have worked more and more? I
recognize that the highest ranking citizens, the 1st class, should be
required to contribute financially more. But why to ask more money from a
3rd class citizen than from a 4th class citizen? What if he was content
with being a 4th class citizen, and never wanted to climb up to the 3rd
class? What if he does not want to pay more (for admittance to the 3rd
class), but he really wants to pay the tax for the 4th class. I think it
would be enough to have 3 levels of taxes, one for the 5th class, a
higher tax rate for classes 4-2, and a highest rate for the 1st class. I
have mentioned this in the Consular Office, too, so there is not much
more that I can do.

With this, I have finished my answers. If
some of the refinements under discussions, including Latin corrections,
will be included in the law, I think it will make a great improvement on
the current system, and I will definitely encourage people to support
this rogatio with their votes.

Curate, uti valeatis!

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, pontifex;
QUAESTOR CONSULARIS
L. COR. SULLAE FELICIS COS
MAGISTER ARANEARIUS ETC...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90977 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Technical question
Ya see, there in lies the technical problem..."IT"...LOL



________________________________
From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 7:33 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Technical question


 

Salvete, qui has res sciunt!

Greetings to those who know such things.

My question is the following: how can I send an email to this Yahoo Group so that it does not ruin my edited text? I observed that other mailing lists don't do that just this mailing list. Is there perhaps a setting on the Yahoo page that enables edited texts?

If you see my post below, you see that, for example, the word "It" is scrambled to the top of the section, like every first word in every section. How can I avoid such kind of problems?

VALETE!
Lentulus

________________________________
Da: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <mailto:cn_corn_lent%40yahoo.it A: "mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com Inviato: Giovedì 11 Luglio 2013 13:28
Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion


 
Cn. Lentulus quaestor Quiritibus et praesertim A. Scholasticae viragini censoriae atque M. Pompeio tribuno plebis s. p. d.

It
has been a while, Quirites, that I wrote a letter here in a political
argument, but as this rogatio Cornelia of consul L. Sulla includes some
of my ideas, I see it important to explain the reasons behind some of
the proposed changes. Bur remember, Quirites, that this is just a
rogatio at this point, which means "proposal" or "draft", and I am still
in the middle of conversations with the consul and other accensi in the
cohors of the consular office, so some minor changes can be expected.

First
of all, I start my letter with an answer to Tullia Scholastica, virago
censoria, about the Latin errors left in the draft. I am very sorry that
I did not point out the errors to the consul while I was
aware of them. Why this could happen is very simple. The consular
cohors is so busy with various debates and discussions and I have so
many things to argue about, that linguistical questions became a
secondary thing. I intended to inform the consul about Latin mistakes
only when everything about the content of the law is agreed upon. But
rest assured, clarissima Tullia Scholastica, femina illustrissima, that I
will do my best to avoid the Latin errors may remain in the final
drafts. Some of the laws don't even have their final name. For example,
this law about the CP points, will of course not be named "lex Cornelia
centuriata", even less "lex Cornelia de centuriata", but something like
"lex Cornelia de punctis censualibus". Or "lex Cornelia censualis", or
some other. I will talk about this with the consul.

And now, let's see the rest of the questions:

more accurately reflects the purpose of this points system. Changing the
name is a small part of the overall reform. The name change idea came
from Lentulus and I fully supported it. <<<

Yes,
it is a very educational and academic improvement and progress from the
previous terminology. The Roman phrase that referred to a citizen's
status in the classes and centuries system was this: "censum primae
classis /secundae classis / tertiae classis etc. habere". In English:
"to have the census of the first class, second class, third class etc".
The Romans called their wealth and other factors that determined class
allocation as "census", too, using the same word as for the conscription
and registration of citizens. So if we want to use points as
determining factors of class allocation, we have to call these points
CENSUS POINTS, instead of century points. To some it seems just a play
with the words, but actually we are EDUCATING people with using such
words. Education is one of the primary missions of Nova Roma, and as a
non-profit organization, it IS our primary mission. If a "muggle"
outside of Nova Roma reads in a letter of Cicero that C. Varius's census
is 300.000 sestertii, he just looks confused and starts searching in
the Wikipedia what the heck Cicero was talking about. But if a Nova
Roman reads the same passage, he just smiles and confidently says, "Oh
yes, my census is 46 points, I am in this and this class,  I know Cicero
speaks about the class allocation factor of C. Varius... This has to be
the focus of Nova Roma: to make people understand Rome like nothing
else makes them. This should be the difference between "muggles" and
Nova Romans, we breath the same air that Cicero, while the others just
read and talk about the Romans, we live the life of the Romans. So I
recommend this change into your support, Tullia clarissima.

ATS: And no reduction after the term of service, as has long been the
case?

MPC: Exactly. Simple. No guess work. No date calculations. No playing
with numbers. You do the service, you get the points and they are yours
to keep with no reductions and no manipulation. My idea but I believe
Lentulus also had the same thought. <<<

It was funny, because I had this idea from the very first month that I
entered Nova Roma, and M. Pompeius suggested the very same. It is much
more reasonable to keep the same amount of CP while in office and even
after the office expired, because we get the points as recognition for
our servive. Now why would our service be worth less AFTER our term
expired, or more BEFORE our term expired? It's not only reasonable but
also simpler. We don't need a complicate calculation where a simpler one works just well.

ATS: This is poorly outlined.

MCP: Perhaps it should just be called 'Miscellaneous'? <<<

Well,
here I have a problem, but since there are so many debates about so
many things in the consular cohors that one can not easily keep the pace
even in the most important issues, I haven't yet brought it up.
Patricianship and plebeianship aren't in fact "orders". Rome had
originally one order the equestrian order, and the plebeian and
patrician status was considered an "ethnicity" or, in lack of better
word, "nationality". Romans talk about patrician and plebeian "genus",
or "natio" or
"stirps" or "gens". All terms essentially mean "genre", "clan",
"nationality", "ethnicity". As to how we should term them in Nova Roma,
I'm still thinking, but if I have a solid idea, I'll communicate it to
the consular office; currently "genus" is my favourite (an example for
this terminology is in Livy, Book VI. 34.).

The term
"plebeian/patrician order" is in the Consitution unfortunately, but if
we just used here in this Census Point law the words "patricians" and
"plebeians", and later we changed the Consitution to read as "genus
patricium" and "genus plebeium", everything would be "in order" :)

ATS: What about the other orders: patrician and plebeian? Why should
only equestrian status be rewarded?

MPC: My idea. I purposely removed Patrician and Plebeian Census Points
in my draft revision and it seems to have stayed out of the draft
submitted for Contio. I can see no reason to grant points for either
Patrician or Plebeian status. Patricians are for the most part those who
joined early in Nova Roman history. It may seem fitting to grant them
some points for their forethought and providence in joining early and
selecting a Patrician gens but does it really deserve any reward? Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward. <<<

I
agree with Pompeius, although I could accept a little symbolical
compensation for patricians, since they have limited rights in our Roman
republican system. Patricians are slightly "oppressed" by the plebeians (and as a matter of historical accuracy, very
well so), because plebeians have an additional fully-fledged comitia, they have the powerful
plebeian tribunes, almost second consuls, who can veto and legislate, they have the plebeian aediles etc.. so being a plebeian is a HUGE advantage. Maybe
the patricians could get a symbolic compensation of 1 CP or 10 CP at
maximum.

In the next paragraph, M. Pompeius, in agreement with Tullia Scholastica, discussed that Census Points should not be
granted for length of citizenship:

citizen seems admirable on the surface, I see no need for it. It is a
reward for sticking around but there are dozens of citizens with 55 and
60 CPs who are Plebeians (55) or Patricians (60) who have earned 5 CP
(Plebeian) or 10 CP (Patrician) and got 50 CP for being a citizen for
five or more years. They have no CP for any activity. Now, if their is a
large number of folks who think we should continue with this tradition
of granting CP for social class and tine as a citizen, that's OK with
me. But to simplify things and to make Census Points better reflect
service and activity, I would like to see this tradition dropped. <<<

I
can agree with that. Yet I think it is beneficial to let regular
citizens advance a little over the time as they spend here years and
years. Because, while I admit that it is indeed good scribae or
magistrates are primarily rewarded for their hard work, I don't want
that only bureacrats and politicians could advance upwards in the
classes. This is where the time factor becomes beneficial. A regular
citizen, who votes, who pays taxes, who participate in discussions or
gets active in provincial events, should also be allowed to progress in
the classes, since it is not the bureaucrats that should be given all
power, voting weight, and control over the membership, but it's
primarily the regular, apolitical membership that should have the
control and power over the bureaucrats and political class. Politicians
are crazy, Nova Roman politicians are
doubleplus crazy, so I think it is important to give some points for
regular members who do not serve in offices. And an easy and tried way
to give them some CP is to give a small limited amount of CP for time
spent in NR.

and making some contributions that benefit Nova Roma. The way things are
now pretty much anyone can move from 5th Class to 4th Class without
doing anything except pay the annual tax to keep assiduus status. <<<

I
have personally no problem with that. To me, from Roman point of view,
there is nothing special in the classes from 5th to 2nd. Where I think
hard work should be needed as a requirement, it's the entrance to the
1st class. And where the really splendid achievements should be needed
it's the ordo equester. To get, for example, into the 3rd class from 4th
class, in my view, there should not be any kind of special effort other
than regular taxpayment, and holding 1-2 minor positions.

Below you can see, Quirites, what Tullia wrote about the new idea of allowing citizens to advance one class by an extra payment:

the always have done. It is quite bad enough that the economic
situations of the various countries are no longer taken into account
when the taxes are assessed, and that anyone who invests time in the NR
government is punished financially for that; now we allow wealth to
determine what work should do. This may be Roman, but it is not
appropriate. The Romans lived in a very different situation from ours.
They also did things which we don't consider very good: they had slaves,
they had gladiatorial battles even to the death, they disenfranchised
women (of course some of you think that that is just fine)...their
sanitation was not the best despite frequent bathing... formal education
was comparatively rare, home construction seems to have been rather
shoddy, at least in the insulae, and there were many other things many
of us would find quite undesirable. <<<

M. Pompeius tribunus plebis has answered these concerns, I just want to add three things.

First,
I agree with Pomeius that this is a very modest change from the current
system, and only allows people to move to the 4th class from the 5th,
or to the 3rd class from the 4th. Not really a change, and the elevation
of rank is mostly ceremonial, since the voting power of these classes
do not differ greatly. It's harmless, and if some people are motovated
by this to contribute a little more to the treasury, then why not?

Second,
I agree with the most respected Tullia that the previous tax system was
more sympathetic, friendly, international and amiable when it was based
on GDP. A lowest limit and highest limit should have been set up (with a
not bigger difference in the two limits than 3 times of the lowest
amount), and between the two limits the taxes could vary from country to
country. But this is not the current trend, and it's not the greatest
problem with NR either. But it's not in the scope of this law.

Third,
I also agree that we should not have higher taxes for each single
class. Do we really need to ask a different amount of money from each
class? One's class allocation depends on the number
of CP one has. But why do
you have to pay more and more, as you have worked more and more? I
recognize that the highest ranking citizens, the 1st class, should be
required to contribute financially more. But why to ask more money from a
3rd class citizen than from a 4th class citizen? What if he was content
with being a 4th class citizen, and never wanted to climb up to the 3rd
class? What if he does not want to pay more (for admittance to the 3rd
class), but he really wants to pay the tax for the 4th class. I think it
would be enough to have 3 levels of taxes, one for the 5th class, a
higher tax rate for classes 4-2, and a highest rate for the 1st class. I
have mentioned this in the Consular Office, too, so there is not much
more that I can do.

With this, I have finished my answers. If
some of the refinements under discussions, including Latin corrections,
will be included in the law, I think it will make a great improvement on
the current system, and I will definitely encourage people to support
this rogatio with their votes.

Curate, uti valeatis!

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, pontifex;
QUAESTOR CONSULARIS
L. COR. SULLAE FELICIS COS
MAGISTER ARANEARIUS ETC...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90978 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
C. Maria Caeca Omnibus in foro S. P. D.



There a few provisions of this proposed Lex on which I would like to
comment.



1. Length of service census points. While I agree that it is optimal for
all citizens to contribute to the Res Publica through as much activity and
service as their inclination and life circumstances permit, and certainly
think it should be recognized and rewarded, there are contributions that are
less tangible as, for example, serving as a scriba in a cohors, or standing
for office. There are, and as we grow, there will be many more, citizens
who participate in our fora, or even just read our discussions, but for
whatever reason do not want to take much part in public life. However, they
stay with us for years, and, yes, pay their taxes, and so display their
loyalty to what we are doing. In our very technical world, intangible
things, like loyalty, are hard to measure, and are often dismissed because
of that as meaningless and irrelevant. I think that awarding length of
citizenship points acknowledges and rewards that loyalty. Yes, a citizen
can rise, to a certain point, without "doing" anything specific, but that
rise will be slower. I also agree with Lentulus that we should not become a
Nation of bureaucrats, and if we reward *only* those whose service is
measurable and tangible, that is what we would be in danger of becoming.
The long standing citizens who choose to stay with us during our best times
*and* our worst times provide a kind of unspoken stability, and their
somewhat higher voting power, received from our acknowledgement of their
loyalty, will help to "leaven" the power of our more active officials and
politicians.

2. One of the things that has generated an enormous amount of rhetoric
since I've been a citizen is the idea that face to face events should be
encouraged, and, having participated in a few, I wholeheartedly agree. The
part of this Lex that rewards such efforts seems beneficial to me, though it
is true not everyone will be able to benefit from it. But those who do
organize face to face events (and the number of attendees was set as high
as it was precisely to preclude things like a couple of citizens having
lunch and calling it an event) are rewarded because organizing and
coordinating an event is a *lot* of behind the scenes work. At the most, a
really active organizer will accrue 15 points in 1 year, which is equivalent
to some of the lower offices, and they will have worked very hard for those
15 points. Attendees will, at most, gain 6 points per year, which is only 1
point more than a scribe can acquire, and it is likely that they will have
some expenses, possibly fairly significant expenses. As far as I am
concerned, this is a positive step that offers tangible organization support
for something we all want to see, and I would far rather see this than have
to read diatribes about how unfortunate it is that no face to face events
occur.

It is certainly true that we are very scattered, and it is likely that most
citizens won't be able to avail themselves of this means of gaining census
points. I supported it, though, because, at least with our current
demographics, our European citizens can benefit most, I think from this
provision, and I think it's high time we recognized their efforts and hard
work in a tangible way. It may provide an incentive for those who are
considering organizing an event, but it is not so great a reward that any
citizen can use it to shape public or political policy. What it does do is
broaden the scope of our definition of service to the Res Publica, and
allows people who don't want to hold office another way to enhance their
voting power, even if only by 2 census points.



3. I support the provision that allows a citizen to "buy up" from one
class to the next higher, because, again, it offers a way to increase one's
census points that does not involve participating in politics or Government.
For someone with a very busy life, one that precludes giving the time that
even being a scribe can take, but wants a way to support the organization
and can afford to do so, this offers an easy way, and allows that citizen to
increase his/her voting power. However, the highest a citizen can rise
using this method is to the 3rd class, and he can only (as I understand the
wording of the Lex) rise 1 class per year, so again, a citizen can't buy
his/her way into a position where his/her increased voting power can do much
to change our policies. No, it isn't for everyone, but since it is
completely voluntary, and since there are other ways of increasing one
voting power through the acquisition of census points, I don't see that it
punishes anyone, either. I have seen this sort of thing before. In
business it would be called "sweat equity". Which means that someone who
can't afford to buy into a business could become a full partner by
additional work, just as those who can't, or wish not to, pay to rise into a
higher class can acquire census pints through service in cohors or in other
ways. There is an organization called Bookshare which uses scanned print
books to produce audio files using synthesized speech for the print
impaired. (an accurate, but fairly ridiculous term). If one becomes a
member, one can either pay a yearly fee (and it is fairly significant) or
one can contribute by scanning and submitting a certain number of books to
the organization for its use. There are other ways of obtaining membership
without paying the membership fee, but for some, for whatever reason, paying
the fee is the easiest and most convenient option, and, I think, that is
what we are doing. We are providing options that citizens may chose to use
or not, as is best suited to their preferences or needs.

Valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90979 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Technical question
Lentulus Vitellio sal.



 


Err..., what do you mean?

Vale!


________________________________
From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 7:33 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Technical question


 

Salvete, qui has res sciunt!

Greetings to those who know such things.

My question is the following: how can I send an email to this Yahoo Group so that it does not ruin my edited text? I observed that other mailing lists don't do that just this mailing list. Is there perhaps a setting on the Yahoo page that enables edited texts?

If you see my post below, you see that, for example, the word "It" is scrambled to the top of the section, like every first word in every section. How can I avoid such kind of problems?

VALETE!
Lentulus

________________________________
Da: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <mailto:cn_corn_lent%40yahoo.it A: "mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com Inviato: Giovedì 11 Luglio 2013 13:28
Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion

 
Cn. Lentulus quaestor Quiritibus et praesertim A. Scholasticae viragini censoriae atque M. Pompeio tribuno plebis s. p. d.

It
has been a while, Quirites, that I wrote a letter here in a political
argument, but as this rogatio Cornelia of consul L. Sulla includes some
of my ideas, I see it important to explain the reasons behind some of
the proposed changes. Bur remember, Quirites, that this is just a
rogatio at this point, which means "proposal" or "draft", and I am still
in the middle of conversations with the consul and other accensi in the
cohors of the consular office, so some minor changes can be expected.

First
of all, I start my letter with an answer to Tullia Scholastica, virago
censoria, about the Latin errors left in the draft. I am very sorry that
I did not point out the errors to the consul while I was
aware of them. Why this could happen is very simple. The consular
cohors is so busy with various debates and discussions and I have so
many things to argue about, that linguistical questions became a
secondary thing. I intended to inform the consul about Latin mistakes
only when everything about the content of the law is agreed upon. But
rest assured, clarissima Tullia Scholastica, femina illustrissima, that I
will do my best to avoid the Latin errors may remain in the final
drafts. Some of the laws don't even have their final name. For example,
this law about the CP points, will of course not be named "lex Cornelia
centuriata", even less "lex Cornelia de centuriata", but something like
"lex Cornelia de punctis censualibus". Or "lex Cornelia censualis", or
some other. I will talk about this with the consul.

And now, let's see the rest of the questions:

more accurately reflects the purpose of this points system. Changing the
name is a small part of the overall reform. The name change idea came
from Lentulus and I fully supported it. <<<

Yes,
it is a very educational and academic improvement and progress from the
previous terminology. The Roman phrase that referred to a citizen's
status in the classes and centuries system was this: "censum primae
classis /secundae classis / tertiae classis etc. habere". In English:
"to have the census of the first class, second class, third class etc".
The Romans called their wealth and other factors that determined class
allocation as "census", too, using the same word as for the conscription
and registration of citizens. So if we want to use points as
determining factors of class allocation, we have to call these points
CENSUS POINTS, instead of century points. To some it seems just a play
with the words, but actually we are EDUCATING people with using such
words. Education is one of the primary missions of Nova Roma, and as a
non-profit organization, it IS our primary mission. If a "muggle"
outside of Nova Roma reads in a letter of Cicero that C. Varius's census
is 300.000 sestertii, he just looks confused and starts searching in
the Wikipedia what the heck Cicero was talking about. But if a Nova
Roman reads the same passage, he just smiles and confidently says, "Oh
yes, my census is 46 points, I am in this and this class,  I know Cicero
speaks about the class allocation factor of C. Varius... This has to be
the focus of Nova Roma: to make people understand Rome like nothing
else makes them. This should be the difference between "muggles" and
Nova Romans, we breath the same air that Cicero, while the others just
read and talk about the Romans, we live the life of the Romans. So I
recommend this change into your support, Tullia clarissima.

ATS: And no reduction after the term of service, as has long been the
case?

MPC: Exactly. Simple. No guess work. No date calculations. No playing
with numbers. You do the service, you get the points and they are yours
to keep with no reductions and no manipulation. My idea but I believe
Lentulus also had the same thought. <<<

It was funny, because I had this idea from the very first month that I
entered Nova Roma, and M. Pompeius suggested the very same. It is much
more reasonable to keep the same amount of CP while in office and even
after the office expired, because we get the points as recognition for
our servive. Now why would our service be worth less AFTER our term
expired, or more BEFORE our term expired? It's not only reasonable but
also simpler. We don't need a complicate calculation where a simpler one works just well.

ATS: This is poorly outlined.

MCP: Perhaps it should just be called 'Miscellaneous'? <<<

Well,
here I have a problem, but since there are so many debates about so
many things in the consular cohors that one can not easily keep the pace
even in the most important issues, I haven't yet brought it up.
Patricianship and plebeianship aren't in fact "orders". Rome had
originally one order the equestrian order, and the plebeian and
patrician status was considered an "ethnicity" or, in lack of better
word, "nationality". Romans talk about patrician and plebeian "genus",
or "natio" or
"stirps" or "gens". All terms essentially mean "genre", "clan",
"nationality", "ethnicity". As to how we should term them in Nova Roma,
I'm still thinking, but if I have a solid idea, I'll communicate it to
the consular office; currently "genus" is my favourite (an example for
this terminology is in Livy, Book VI. 34.).

The term
"plebeian/patrician order" is in the Consitution unfortunately, but if
we just used here in this Census Point law the words "patricians" and
"plebeians", and later we changed the Consitution to read as "genus
patricium" and "genus plebeium", everything would be "in order" :)

ATS: What about the other orders: patrician and plebeian? Why should
only equestrian status be rewarded?

MPC: My idea. I purposely removed Patrician and Plebeian Census Points
in my draft revision and it seems to have stayed out of the draft
submitted for Contio. I can see no reason to grant points for either
Patrician or Plebeian status. Patricians are for the most part those who
joined early in Nova Roman history. It may seem fitting to grant them
some points for their forethought and providence in joining early and
selecting a Patrician gens but does it really deserve any reward? Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward. <<<

I
agree with Pompeius, although I could accept a little symbolical
compensation for patricians, since they have limited rights in our Roman
republican system. Patricians are slightly "oppressed" by the plebeians (and as a matter of historical accuracy, very
well so), because plebeians have an additional fully-fledged comitia, they have the powerful
plebeian tribunes, almost second consuls, who can veto and legislate, they have the plebeian aediles etc.. so being a plebeian is a HUGE advantage. Maybe
the patricians could get a symbolic compensation of 1 CP or 10 CP at
maximum.

In the next paragraph, M. Pompeius, in agreement with Tullia Scholastica, discussed that Census Points should not be
granted for length of citizenship:

citizen seems admirable on the surface, I see no need for it. It is a
reward for sticking around but there are dozens of citizens with 55 and
60 CPs who are Plebeians (55) or Patricians (60) who have earned 5 CP
(Plebeian) or 10 CP (Patrician) and got 50 CP for being a citizen for
five or more years. They have no CP for any activity. Now, if their is a
large number of folks who think we should continue with this tradition
of granting CP for social class and tine as a citizen, that's OK with
me. But to simplify things and to make Census Points better reflect
service and activity, I would like to see this tradition dropped. <<<

I
can agree with that. Yet I think it is beneficial to let regular
citizens advance a little over the time as they spend here years and
years. Because, while I admit that it is indeed good scribae or
magistrates are primarily rewarded for their hard work, I don't want
that only bureacrats and politicians could advance upwards in the
classes. This is where the time factor becomes beneficial. A regular
citizen, who votes, who pays taxes, who participate in discussions or
gets active in provincial events, should also be allowed to progress in
the classes, since it is not the bureaucrats that should be given all
power, voting weight, and control over the membership, but it's
primarily the regular, apolitical membership that should have the
control and power over the bureaucrats and political class. Politicians
are crazy, Nova Roman politicians are
doubleplus crazy, so I think it is important to give some points for
regular members who do not serve in offices. And an easy and tried way
to give them some CP is to give a small limited amount of CP for time
spent in NR.

and making some contributions that benefit Nova Roma. The way things are
now pretty much anyone can move from 5th Class to 4th Class without
doing anything except pay the annual tax to keep assiduus status. <<<

I
have personally no problem with that. To me, from Roman point of view,
there is nothing special in the classes from 5th to 2nd. Where I think
hard work should be needed as a requirement, it's the entrance to the
1st class. And where the really splendid achievements should be needed
it's the ordo equester. To get, for example, into the 3rd class from 4th
class, in my view, there should not be any kind of special effort other
than regular taxpayment, and holding 1-2 minor positions.

Below you can see, Quirites, what Tullia wrote about the new idea of allowing citizens to advance one class by an extra payment:

the always have done. It is quite bad enough that the economic
situations of the various countries are no longer taken into account
when the taxes are assessed, and that anyone who invests time in the NR
government is punished financially for that; now we allow wealth to
determine what work should do. This may be Roman, but it is not
appropriate. The Romans lived in a very different situation from ours.
They also did things which we don't consider very good: they had slaves,
they had gladiatorial battles even to the death, they disenfranchised
women (of course some of you think that that is just fine)...their
sanitation was not the best despite frequent bathing... formal education
was comparatively rare, home construction seems to have been rather
shoddy, at least in the insulae, and there were many other things many
of us would find quite undesirable. <<<

M. Pompeius tribunus plebis has answered these concerns, I just want to add three things.

First,
I agree with Pomeius that this is a very modest change from the current
system, and only allows people to move to the 4th class from the 5th,
or to the 3rd class from the 4th. Not really a change, and the elevation
of rank is mostly ceremonial, since the voting power of these classes
do not differ greatly. It's harmless, and if some people are motovated
by this to contribute a little more to the treasury, then why not?

Second,
I agree with the most respected Tullia that the previous tax system was
more sympathetic, friendly, international and amiable when it was based
on GDP. A lowest limit and highest limit should have been set up (with a
not bigger difference in the two limits than 3 times of the lowest
amount), and between the two limits the taxes could vary from country to
country. But this is not the current trend, and it's not the greatest
problem with NR either. But it's not in the scope of this law.

Third,
I also agree that we should not have higher taxes for each single
class. Do we really need to ask a different amount of money from each
class? One's class allocation depends on the number
of CP one has. But why do
you have to pay more and more, as you have worked more and more? I
recognize that the highest ranking citizens, the 1st class, should be
required to contribute financially more. But why to ask more money from a
3rd class citizen than from a 4th class citizen? What if he was content
with being a 4th class citizen, and never wanted to climb up to the 3rd
class? What if he does not want to pay more (for admittance to the 3rd
class), but he really wants to pay the tax for the 4th class. I think it
would be enough to have 3 levels of taxes, one for the 5th class, a
higher tax rate for classes 4-2, and a highest rate for the 1st class. I
have mentioned this in the Consular Office, too, so there is not much
more that I can do.

With this, I have finished my answers. If
some of the refinements under discussions, including Latin corrections,
will be included in the law, I think it will make a great improvement on
the current system, and I will definitely encourage people to support
this rogatio with their votes.

Curate, uti valeatis!

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, pontifex;
QUAESTOR CONSULARIS
L. COR. SULLAE FELICIS COS
MAGISTER ARANEARIUS ETC...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90980 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Technical question
Ave,

I think he meant it as a joke that it was your word, "IT" hanging all by
itself so to speak.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90981 From: Scipio Second Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Ave,
 
Of course, I am but a simple soldier.   No doubt unqualified to join in this erudite conversation.   But is amazing that one would contend that an 18 year old man or woman was still in puberty and immature.   Perhaps the argument was tongue in cheek.   If so, entirely too subtle for me.
 
May I remind all that we send 18 year old men and women into battle armed with deadly weapons.   Historically much younger men have gone to war.    One of my grandsons began Army basic training this week.   He will come out a stronger man.  
 
I'm an old soldier.    But I take offense at such drivel.   So I stand up to defend the honor and maturity of our young men and women.  God bless them for now protecting me.
 
Vale,
 
Publius Quinctius Petrus Augustinus
 
 


________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 3:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum

 

Ave,

HOLDS UP SARCASM SIGN!!!!

I never realized how much you and Dexter have in common. But, I forget you
and Dexter are Literalists.

Vale,

Sulla

On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 1:36 AM, A. Tullia Scholastica <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90982 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Technical question
Salve, Sulla;
I still don't get it... You mean IT as Information Technology?



________________________________
Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... A: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Inviato: Giovedì 11 Luglio 2013 19:08
Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Technical question


Ave,

I think he meant it as a joke that it was your word, "IT" hanging all by
itself so to speak.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:04 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90983 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Ave!

I am in total agreement. This is why I had no problem lowering the age
requirement.

I think we need to keep in mind that this "instructor" is the same one that
has no problem disclosing the faults of her students and maybe that has
clouded her judgement? Given this long standing trend that this instructor
has done throughout the years. It is to her disadvantage that she has, in
all likelihood, not met anyone of that age and caliber as you so nobly
described. Bravo Petrus!

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90984 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Technical question
Ave,

I don't think so. It was because the word "it" was the word that was
hanging in a line all by itself. Though, I admit I could be mistaken and
you might be right he referred to IT as Information Technology, but I took
it as relating just to the word "it."

Vale,

Sulla


On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:12 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90985 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Salve Petre Augustine!



You make an excellent and pertinent point, Sir, and I wholeheartedly share
your sentiments in this.



Vale quam optime!

C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90986 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Technical question
Salve Lentule Amice!



OK . text formatting is a totally foreign country for me (JAWS reads the
text and doesn't care how it's formatted), but . I wonder if it makes a
difference whether you set your mail client options to send posts in plain
text or HTML? I know when I was told I had some formatting issues, changing
my send mail settings from plain text to HTML seemed to help.



Vale quam optime!

Maria



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90987 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Cn. Lentulus P. Quinctio s. p. d.

Optime Petre Augustine, I don't think this is what Scholastica referred to as maturity or immaturity. There are different kinds of maturity, and that very noble sense of maturity which is about relizing that it's my sacred duty to defend the fatherland, our homes and families, comes earlier than other kinds of maturities. For example, a younger man is often hotheaded, but as he matures more and more, he learns to be patient, and acquires a certain wisdom that comes with age. This is not happening when one is 18, but rather around age 30 or sometimes even later, 50-60. And as a magistrate, one needs THIS kind of patient and wise, "elderly" maturity, and less so the maturity which is associated with bravery, patriotism and responsibility towards country and family.

This is how I read Tullia Scholastica's words.

Additionally, it's interesting that there are several countries which even acknowledge that younger adults are still a bit more zelous that it would be optimal, and these countries grant voting rights only to people above age 21, and there were some countries a few years ago where viting age was 25 or 30.

Vale!




________________________________
Da: Scipio Second <scipiosecond@... A: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Inviato: Giovedì 11 Luglio 2013 19:09
Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum



 
Ave,
 
Of course, I am but a simple soldier.   No doubt unqualified to join in this erudite conversation.   But is amazing that one would contend that an 18 year old man or woman was still in puberty and immature.   Perhaps the argument was tongue in cheek.   If so, entirely too subtle for me.
 
May I remind all that we send 18 year old men and women into battle armed with deadly weapons.   Historically much younger men have gone to war.    One of my grandsons began Army basic training this week.   He will come out a stronger man.  
 
I'm an old soldier.    But I take offense at such drivel.   So I stand up to defend the honor and maturity of our young men and women.  God bless them for now protecting me.
 
Vale,
 
Publius Quinctius Petrus Augustinus
 
 


________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 3:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum

 

Ave,

HOLDS UP SARCASM SIGN!!!!

I never realized how much you and Dexter have in common. But, I forget you
and Dexter are Literalists.

Vale,

Sulla

On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 1:36 AM, A. Tullia Scholastica <mailto:fororom%40localnet.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90988 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Ave Lentulus,

But the problem is that is entirely subjective - One could say she is not
patient, wise or mature. One could say that about me as well. There is
no way to quantifiable measure one's maturity, wisdom. So, we form an
objective manner from which to base that upon.

For entry level based positions we open it up to 18 years old. If the
People feel confident enough to vote them in - they can either rise to the
occasion and be successful or not. This is the way it is for every
magistracy from Censor on down to Apparitore. We give the office holder an
chance to be as successful as they can - or achieve their Peter Principle.

Respectfully,

Sulla



On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
cn_corn_lent@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90989 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Provincial Governor Oath of Office of M. Pompeius Caninus
Marcus Pompeius Caninus Quiritibus Omnibusque SPD.


Earlier this year the Senate appointed me as Provincial Governor of
America Boreoccidentalis. However, I have not formally taken the oath of
office required of magistrates. I come before you now to correct that
omission and record my oath of office.


I, Rodney Mark Jones, Marcus Pompeius Caninus, do hereby solemnly swear
to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.


As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Marcus Pompeius Caninus, swear to honor
the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the
Roman Virtues in my public and private life.


I, Marcus Pompeius Caninus, swear to uphold and defend the Religio
Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a
way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.


I, Marcus Pompeius Caninus, swear to protect and defend the Constitution
of Nova Roma.


I, Marcus Pompeius Caninus, further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of Legatus Pro Praetore Americae
Boreoccidentalis to the best of my abilities.


On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods
and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the position of Legatus Pro Praetore Americae Boreoccidentalis
and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities
attendant thereto.


Facite valeatis!




Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90990 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Technical question
Internet Technology...It's great when it works right!

Vale,
 
LVT


________________________________
From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 1:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Technical question


 

Lentulus Vitellio sal.

 

Err..., what do you mean?

Vale!

________________________________
From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <mailto:cn_corn_lent%40yahoo.it To: "mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 7:33 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Technical question

 

Salvete, qui has res sciunt!

Greetings to those who know such things.

My question is the following: how can I send an email to this Yahoo Group so that it does not ruin my edited text? I observed that other mailing lists don't do that just this mailing list. Is there perhaps a setting on the Yahoo page that enables edited texts?

If you see my post below, you see that, for example, the word "It" is scrambled to the top of the section, like every first word in every section. How can I avoid such kind of problems?

VALETE!
Lentulus

________________________________
Da: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <mailto:cn_corn_lent%40yahoo.it A: "mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com Inviato: Giovedì 11 Luglio 2013 13:28
Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion

 
Cn. Lentulus quaestor Quiritibus et praesertim A. Scholasticae viragini censoriae atque M. Pompeio tribuno plebis s. p. d.

It
has been a while, Quirites, that I wrote a letter here in a political
argument, but as this rogatio Cornelia of consul L. Sulla includes some
of my ideas, I see it important to explain the reasons behind some of
the proposed changes. Bur remember, Quirites, that this is just a
rogatio at this point, which means "proposal" or "draft", and I am still
in the middle of conversations with the consul and other accensi in the
cohors of the consular office, so some minor changes can be expected.

First
of all, I start my letter with an answer to Tullia Scholastica, virago
censoria, about the Latin errors left in the draft. I am very sorry that
I did not point out the errors to the consul while I was
aware of them. Why this could happen is very simple. The consular
cohors is so busy with various debates and discussions and I have so
many things to argue about, that linguistical questions became a
secondary thing. I intended to inform the consul about Latin mistakes
only when everything about the content of the law is agreed upon. But
rest assured, clarissima Tullia Scholastica, femina illustrissima, that I
will do my best to avoid the Latin errors may remain in the final
drafts. Some of the laws don't even have their final name. For example,
this law about the CP points, will of course not be named "lex Cornelia
centuriata", even less "lex Cornelia de centuriata", but something like
"lex Cornelia de punctis censualibus". Or "lex Cornelia censualis", or
some other. I will talk about this with the consul.

And now, let's see the rest of the questions:

more accurately reflects the purpose of this points system. Changing the
name is a small part of the overall reform. The name change idea came
from Lentulus and I fully supported it. <<<

Yes,
it is a very educational and academic improvement and progress from the
previous terminology. The Roman phrase that referred to a citizen's
status in the classes and centuries system was this: "censum primae
classis /secundae classis / tertiae classis etc. habere". In English:
"to have the census of the first class, second class, third class etc".
The Romans called their wealth and other factors that determined class
allocation as "census", too, using the same word as for the conscription
and registration of citizens. So if we want to use points as
determining factors of class allocation, we have to call these points
CENSUS POINTS, instead of century points. To some it seems just a play
with the words, but actually we are EDUCATING people with using such
words. Education is one of the primary missions of Nova Roma, and as a
non-profit organization, it IS our primary mission. If a "muggle"
outside of Nova Roma reads in a letter of Cicero that C. Varius's census
is 300.000 sestertii, he just looks confused and starts searching in
the Wikipedia what the heck Cicero was talking about. But if a Nova
Roman reads the same passage, he just smiles and confidently says, "Oh
yes, my census is 46 points, I am in this and this class,  I know Cicero
speaks about the class allocation factor of C. Varius... This has to be
the focus of Nova Roma: to make people understand Rome like nothing
else makes them. This should be the difference between "muggles" and
Nova Romans, we breath the same air that Cicero, while the others just
read and talk about the Romans, we live the life of the Romans. So I
recommend this change into your support, Tullia clarissima.

ATS: And no reduction after the term of service, as has long been the
case?

MPC: Exactly. Simple. No guess work. No date calculations. No playing
with numbers. You do the service, you get the points and they are yours
to keep with no reductions and no manipulation. My idea but I believe
Lentulus also had the same thought. <<<

It was funny, because I had this idea from the very first month that I
entered Nova Roma, and M. Pompeius suggested the very same. It is much
more reasonable to keep the same amount of CP while in office and even
after the office expired, because we get the points as recognition for
our servive. Now why would our service be worth less AFTER our term
expired, or more BEFORE our term expired? It's not only reasonable but
also simpler. We don't need a complicate calculation where a simpler one works just well.

ATS: This is poorly outlined.

MCP: Perhaps it should just be called 'Miscellaneous'? <<<

Well,
here I have a problem, but since there are so many debates about so
many things in the consular cohors that one can not easily keep the pace
even in the most important issues, I haven't yet brought it up.
Patricianship and plebeianship aren't in fact "orders". Rome had
originally one order the equestrian order, and the plebeian and
patrician status was considered an "ethnicity" or, in lack of better
word, "nationality". Romans talk about patrician and plebeian "genus",
or "natio" or
"stirps" or "gens". All terms essentially mean "genre", "clan",
"nationality", "ethnicity". As to how we should term them in Nova Roma,
I'm still thinking, but if I have a solid idea, I'll communicate it to
the consular office; currently "genus" is my favourite (an example for
this terminology is in Livy, Book VI. 34.).

The term
"plebeian/patrician order" is in the Consitution unfortunately, but if
we just used here in this Census Point law the words "patricians" and
"plebeians", and later we changed the Consitution to read as "genus
patricium" and "genus plebeium", everything would be "in order" :)

ATS: What about the other orders: patrician and plebeian? Why should
only equestrian status be rewarded?

MPC: My idea. I purposely removed Patrician and Plebeian Census Points
in my draft revision and it seems to have stayed out of the draft
submitted for Contio. I can see no reason to grant points for either
Patrician or Plebeian status. Patricians are for the most part those who
joined early in Nova Roman history. It may seem fitting to grant them
some points for their forethought and providence in joining early and
selecting a Patrician gens but does it really deserve any reward? Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward. <<<

I
agree with Pompeius, although I could accept a little symbolical
compensation for patricians, since they have limited rights in our Roman
republican system. Patricians are slightly "oppressed" by the plebeians (and as a matter of historical accuracy, very
well so), because plebeians have an additional fully-fledged comitia, they have the powerful
plebeian tribunes, almost second consuls, who can veto and legislate, they have the plebeian aediles etc.. so being a plebeian is a HUGE advantage. Maybe
the patricians could get a symbolic compensation of 1 CP or 10 CP at
maximum.

In the next paragraph, M. Pompeius, in agreement with Tullia Scholastica, discussed that Census Points should not be
granted for length of citizenship:

citizen seems admirable on the surface, I see no need for it. It is a
reward for sticking around but there are dozens of citizens with 55 and
60 CPs who are Plebeians (55) or Patricians (60) who have earned 5 CP
(Plebeian) or 10 CP (Patrician) and got 50 CP for being a citizen for
five or more years. They have no CP for any activity. Now, if their is a
large number of folks who think we should continue with this tradition
of granting CP for social class and tine as a citizen, that's OK with
me. But to simplify things and to make Census Points better reflect
service and activity, I would like to see this tradition dropped. <<<

I
can agree with that. Yet I think it is beneficial to let regular
citizens advance a little over the time as they spend here years and
years. Because, while I admit that it is indeed good scribae or
magistrates are primarily rewarded for their hard work, I don't want
that only bureacrats and politicians could advance upwards in the
classes. This is where the time factor becomes beneficial. A regular
citizen, who votes, who pays taxes, who participate in discussions or
gets active in provincial events, should also be allowed to progress in
the classes, since it is not the bureaucrats that should be given all
power, voting weight, and control over the membership, but it's
primarily the regular, apolitical membership that should have the
control and power over the bureaucrats and political class. Politicians
are crazy, Nova Roman politicians are
doubleplus crazy, so I think it is important to give some points for
regular members who do not serve in offices. And an easy and tried way
to give them some CP is to give a small limited amount of CP for time
spent in NR.

and making some contributions that benefit Nova Roma. The way things are
now pretty much anyone can move from 5th Class to 4th Class without
doing anything except pay the annual tax to keep assiduus status. <<<

I
have personally no problem with that. To me, from Roman point of view,
there is nothing special in the classes from 5th to 2nd. Where I think
hard work should be needed as a requirement, it's the entrance to the
1st class. And where the really splendid achievements should be needed
it's the ordo equester. To get, for example, into the 3rd class from 4th
class, in my view, there should not be any kind of special effort other
than regular taxpayment, and holding 1-2 minor positions.

Below you can see, Quirites, what Tullia wrote about the new idea of allowing citizens to advance one class by an extra payment:

the always have done. It is quite bad enough that the economic
situations of the various countries are no longer taken into account
when the taxes are assessed, and that anyone who invests time in the NR
government is punished financially for that; now we allow wealth to
determine what work should do. This may be Roman, but it is not
appropriate. The Romans lived in a very different situation from ours.
They also did things which we don't consider very good: they had slaves,
they had gladiatorial battles even to the death, they disenfranchised
women (of course some of you think that that is just fine)...their
sanitation was not the best despite frequent bathing... formal education
was comparatively rare, home construction seems to have been rather
shoddy, at least in the insulae, and there were many other things many
of us would find quite undesirable. <<<

M. Pompeius tribunus plebis has answered these concerns, I just want to add three things.

First,
I agree with Pomeius that this is a very modest change from the current
system, and only allows people to move to the 4th class from the 5th,
or to the 3rd class from the 4th. Not really a change, and the elevation
of rank is mostly ceremonial, since the voting power of these classes
do not differ greatly. It's harmless, and if some people are motovated
by this to contribute a little more to the treasury, then why not?

Second,
I agree with the most respected Tullia that the previous tax system was
more sympathetic, friendly, international and amiable when it was based
on GDP. A lowest limit and highest limit should have been set up (with a
not bigger difference in the two limits than 3 times of the lowest
amount), and between the two limits the taxes could vary from country to
country. But this is not the current trend, and it's not the greatest
problem with NR either. But it's not in the scope of this law.

Third,
I also agree that we should not have higher taxes for each single
class. Do we really need to ask a different amount of money from each
class? One's class allocation depends on the number
of CP one has. But why do
you have to pay more and more, as you have worked more and more? I
recognize that the highest ranking citizens, the 1st class, should be
required to contribute financially more. But why to ask more money from a
3rd class citizen than from a 4th class citizen? What if he was content
with being a 4th class citizen, and never wanted to climb up to the 3rd
class? What if he does not want to pay more (for admittance to the 3rd
class), but he really wants to pay the tax for the 4th class. I think it
would be enough to have 3 levels of taxes, one for the 5th class, a
higher tax rate for classes 4-2, and a highest rate for the 1st class. I
have mentioned this in the Consular Office, too, so there is not much
more that I can do.

With this, I have finished my answers. If
some of the refinements under discussions, including Latin corrections,
will be included in the law, I think it will make a great improvement on
the current system, and I will definitely encourage people to support
this rogatio with their votes.

Curate, uti valeatis!

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, pontifex;
QUAESTOR CONSULARIS
L. COR. SULLAE FELICIS COS
MAGISTER ARANEARIUS ETC...

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90991 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Caninus Lentulo omnibusque s.p.d.

I believe the name Lex Cornelia de Centuriata follows the same title
pattern as pretty much all previous leges regarding Century Points, with
the exception of inappropriate 'de' inserted.

Lex Fabia centuriata (Nova Roma)
Lex Iunia centuriata secunda (Nova Roma)
Lex Vedia centuriata (Nova Roma)

I prefer this new lex being titled "lex Cornelia de punctis censualibus"
as that seems to best describe its subject and scope.


Bene valete!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!





-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and
discussion
From: "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus" <cn_corn_lent@... Date: Thu, July 11, 2013 3:28 am
To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Cn. Lentulus quaestor Quiritibus et praesertim
A. Scholasticae viragini censoriae atque M. Pompeio tribuno plebis s.
p. d.

...

<snip
Some of the laws don't even have their final name. For example,
this law about the CP points, will of course not be named "lex Cornelia
centuriata", even less "lex Cornelia de centuriata", but something like
"lex Cornelia de punctis censualibus". Or "lex Cornelia censualis", or
some other. I will talk about this with the consul.

</snip
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90992 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Lex Cornelia de Punctis Censualibus - was Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornel
Avete Omnes,

I have no problem renaming the law to reflect a more accurate subject
matter. I have changed the Subject line to reflect the new name.

Lex Cornelia de Punctis Censualibus

As Yul Brenner said, so let it be written so let it be done. :)

Vale,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90993 From: Scipio Second Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
Ave,
 
Sulla has made the point better than me.   One hopes that with age comes wisdom.   Unfortunately common experience proves that too often untrue.   My point was simply that maturity does not necessarily equate with age.    Further, maturity and wisdom are not the same thing.    Societies oft use age as an indicator of wisdom.   While an inaccurate gauge, in a free society it must do.   Thus, it is not infrequent that minimum ages are set for elective offices, a practice to which I do not object.   But it remains incumbent upon the electors to determine the fitness of the individual to hold the desired office.   It remains important, however, to distinguish between maturity and wisdom - these are not the same. 
 
Vale,
 
Petrus Augustinus            


________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine robert.woolwine@...,
To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 12:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum

 

Ave Lentulus,

But the problem is that is entirely subjective - One could say she is not
patient, wise or mature. One could say that about me as well. There is
no way to quantifiable measure one's maturity, wisdom. So, we form an
objective manner from which to base that upon.

For entry level based positions we open it up to 18 years old. If the
People feel confident enough to vote them in - they can either rise to the
occasion and be successful or not. This is the way it is for every
magistracy from Censor on down to Apparitore. We give the office holder an
chance to be as successful as they can - or achieve their Peter Principle.

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 10:38 AM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <
mailto:cn_corn_lent%40yahoo.it
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90994 From: Scipio Second Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
As we say down here in Texas: Muchas Gracias!


________________________________
From: cmc <c.mariacaeca@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 12:17 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum

 

Salve Petre Augustine!

You make an excellent and pertinent point, Sir, and I wholeheartedly share
your sentiments in this.

Vale quam optime!

C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90995 From: Scipio Second Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum
I must confess that as a college professor, I have had the opportunity to question the maturity of students.   But then I remember those too young soldiers going off into the jaws of hell.  My faith is restored. 


________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Cursu Honorum

 

Ave!

I am in total agreement. This is why I had no problem lowering the age
requirement.

I think we need to keep in mind that this "instructor" is the same one that
has no problem disclosing the faults of her students and maybe that has
clouded her judgement? Given this long standing trend that this instructor
has done throughout the years. It is to her disadvantage that she has, in
all likelihood, not met anyone of that age and caliber as you so nobly
described. Bravo Petrus!

Respectfully,

Sulla

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90996 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90997 From: qfabiusmaximus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
In a message dated 7/11/2013 2:18:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
caninus@... writes:

Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward.

QFM: And what do we Patricians think of this?

You realize there would be no Nova Roma without the famous Patrician Gentes
that ensured its survival.
So in answer to your question, YES IT DOES!

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90998 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Caninus Fabio sal.

Based on what you, Caesar and Caeca have said, I can see there is some
value in granting Census Points for Patrician or Plebeian status as well
as granting points for time as a citizen. These small awards of Census
Points allow for a bit of Century Class mobility for those citizens who
have no desire to pursue the Cursus Honorum. I would rather the Census
Points reflect a purer measure of activity and contribution of effort
but I can live with including points for these items in the final lex.

Fac valeas!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!





-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and
discussion
From: QFabiusMaxmi@...
Date: Thu, July 11, 2013 3:45 pm
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com



In a message dated 7/11/2013 2:18:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
caninus@... writes:

Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward.

QFM: And what do we Patricians think of this?

You realize there would be no Nova Roma without the famous Patrician
Gentes
that ensured its survival.
So in answer to your question, YES IT DOES!

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 90999 From: cmc Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: For your evening's pleasure
Salvete Omnes!

Since we are honoring Apollo, I think it only appropriate that we include
some ancient Greek music, and this is lovely!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8yWpQfN-V8

Hope you enjoy!
Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91000 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Salve amice

How about this as a compromise. We cut it off after one year after joining. That way it is aimed at new citizens only. A jump start from the "state" on CP and thereafter it is up to them.

Vale bene
Caesar


________________________________
From: M. Pompeius Caninus <caninus@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 6:12 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion



 
Caninus Fabio sal.

Based on what you, Caesar and Caeca have said, I can see there is some
value in granting Census Points for Patrician or Plebeian status as well
as granting points for time as a citizen. These small awards of Census
Points allow for a bit of Century Class mobility for those citizens who
have no desire to pursue the Cursus Honorum. I would rather the Census
Points reflect a purer measure of activity and contribution of effort
but I can live with including points for these items in the final lex.

Fac valeas!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and
discussion
From: QFabiusMaxmi@...
Date: Thu, July 11, 2013 3:45 pm
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

In a message dated 7/11/2013 2:18:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
caninus@... writes:

Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward.

QFM: And what do we Patricians think of this?

You realize there would be no Nova Roma without the famous Patrician
Gentes
that ensured its survival.
So in answer to your question, YES IT DOES!

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91001 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
YO Caesar I need to talk to you :)


On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
gn_iulius_caesar@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91002 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Oh man sorry I thought this was on the consul list...my mistake.

Vale,

Sulla


On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 6:43 PM, Robert Woolwine
<robert.woolwine@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91003 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Ave!
 
How about:
 
A) 2 CPs for Patricians and 1 CP for Plebeii the first year, then 
B) 3 CPs for Patrician and 2 CPs for Plebeii if Assidui each year thereafter, and 
C) 1 CP for both if Capite censi each year there after.
 
This is basically Scribe's pay.
 
Valete,
Triarius


________________________________
From: M. Pompeius Caninus <caninus@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:12 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion


 

Caninus Fabio sal.

Based on what you, Caesar and Caeca have said, I can see there is some
value in granting Census Points for Patrician or Plebeian status as well
as granting points for time as a citizen. These small awards of Census
Points allow for a bit of Century Class mobility for those citizens who
have no desire to pursue the Cursus Honorum. I would rather the Census
Points reflect a purer measure of activity and contribution of effort
but I can live with including points for these items in the final lex.

Fac valeas!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and
discussion
From: mailto:QFabiusMaxmi%40aol.com
Date: Thu, July 11, 2013 3:45 pm
To: mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com

In a message dated 7/11/2013 2:18:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
mailto:caninus%40caninus.co writes:

Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward.

QFM: And what do we Patricians think of this?

You realize there would be no Nova Roma without the famous Patrician
Gentes
that ensured its survival.
So in answer to your question, YES IT DOES!

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91004 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Salve Triare

Speaking personally, I would like it to remain at what it is for the patricians and plebeians - 10 points and 7 on joining then 10 points for the first year. It could take a year for someone to get grounded and be offered a scribal position or more. After a year the CP for continued membership could be eradicated. Its a little thing for NR to kickstart someone's cursus, and on a purely optical level seeing a few CP points accrue isn't a bad thing for a new citizen. 

Vale bene
Caesar


________________________________
From: Lucius Vitellius <lvtriarius@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion



 
Ave!
 
How about:
 
A) 2 CPs for Patricians and 1 CP for Plebeii the first year, then 
B) 3 CPs for Patrician and 2 CPs for Plebeii if Assidui each year thereafter, and 
C) 1 CP for both if Capite censi each year there after.
 
This is basically Scribe's pay.
 
Valete,
Triarius


________________________________
From: M. Pompeius Caninus <caninus@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:12 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion


 

Caninus Fabio sal.

Based on what you, Caesar and Caeca have said, I can see there is some
value in granting Census Points for Patrician or Plebeian status as well
as granting points for time as a citizen. These small awards of Census
Points allow for a bit of Century Class mobility for those citizens who
have no desire to pursue the Cursus Honorum. I would rather the Census
Points reflect a purer measure of activity and contribution of effort
but I can live with including points for these items in the final lex.

Fac valeas!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and
discussion
From: mailto:QFabiusMaxmi%40aol.com
Date: Thu, July 11, 2013 3:45 pm
To: mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com

In a message dated 7/11/2013 2:18:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
mailto:caninus%40caninus.co writes:

Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward.

QFM: And what do we Patricians think of this?

You realize there would be no Nova Roma without the famous Patrician
Gentes
that ensured its survival.
So in answer to your question, YES IT DOES!

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91005 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Veneta uncovers Albata's Secret Weapon
Salvete omnes,
 
Sources close to the Veneta Sables have disclosed a new Secret Weapon that Factio Albata plans to launch during the next Ludi circenses.  Factio Veneta has obtained a photograph of this new weapon of the track and is allowing the evidence to be presented to the general public for their own protection:
 
Those with weak constitutions should be warned before viewing!
 
(ROFLMAO!!! It ain't evern right...not even for me!)
 
http://www.thehumorsource.com/system/items/73771.jpg
 
Valete optime,
 
L Vitellius Triarius
Dominus factionis venetus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91006 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Makes sense to me...I'll support that.
 
LVT


________________________________
From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion


 

Salve Triare

Speaking personally, I would like it to remain at what it is for the patricians and plebeians - 10 points and 7 on joining then 10 points for the first year. It could take a year for someone to get grounded and be offered a scribal position or more. After a year the CP for continued membership could be eradicated. Its a little thing for NR to kickstart someone's cursus, and on a purely optical level seeing a few CP points accrue isn't a bad thing for a new citizen. 

Vale bene
Caesar

________________________________
From: Lucius Vitellius <mailto:lvtriarius%40yahoo.com To: "mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com" <mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion


 
Ave!
 
How about:
 
A) 2 CPs for Patricians and 1 CP for Plebeii the first year, then 
B) 3 CPs for Patrician and 2 CPs for Plebeii if Assidui each year thereafter, and 
C) 1 CP for both if Capite censi each year there after.
 
This is basically Scribe's pay.
 
Valete,
Triarius

________________________________
From: M. Pompeius Caninus <mailto:caninus%40caninus.co To: mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 8:12 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion

 

Caninus Fabio sal.

Based on what you, Caesar and Caeca have said, I can see there is some
value in granting Census Points for Patrician or Plebeian status as well
as granting points for time as a citizen. These small awards of Census
Points allow for a bit of Century Class mobility for those citizens who
have no desire to pursue the Cursus Honorum. I would rather the Census
Points reflect a purer measure of activity and contribution of effort
but I can live with including points for these items in the final lex.

Fac valeas!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and
discussion
From: mailto:QFabiusMaxmi%40aol.com
Date: Thu, July 11, 2013 3:45 pm
To: mailto:Nova-Roma%40yahoogroups.com

In a message dated 7/11/2013 2:18:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
mailto:caninus%40caninus.co writes:

Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward.

QFM: And what do we Patricians think of this?

You realize there would be no Nova Roma without the famous Patrician
Gentes
that ensured its survival.
So in answer to your question, YES IT DOES!

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 91007 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-07-11
Subject: Re: Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and discussion
Salve amice!

I will go a step further. How about the state granting 5 or 10 Census
Points in each of the first three years of citizenship plus a one time
grant of either 10 for patricians or 5 for plebeians when they join.
Granting points during the first three years will provide time to meet
the requirements for office if they choose to pursue the cursus honorum.

Optime vale.

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!





-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and
discussion
From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@... Date: Thu, July 11, 2013 5:35 pm
To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Salve amice

How about this as a compromise. We cut it off after one year after
joining. That way it is aimed at new citizens only. A jump start from
the "state" on CP and thereafter it is up to them.

Vale bene
Caesar

________________________________
From: M. Pompeius Caninus <caninus@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 6:12 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and
discussion



Caninus Fabio sal.

Based on what you, Caesar and Caeca have said, I can see there is some
value in granting Census Points for Patrician or Plebeian status as
well
as granting points for time as a citizen. These small awards of Census
Points allow for a bit of Century Class mobility for those citizens who
have no desire to pursue the Cursus Honorum. I would rather the Census
Points reflect a purer measure of activity and contribution of effort
but I can live with including points for these items in the final lex.

Fac valeas!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and
discussion
From: QFabiusMaxmi@...
Date: Thu, July 11, 2013 3:45 pm
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

In a message dated 7/11/2013 2:18:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
caninus@... writes:

Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward.

QFM: And what do we Patricians think of this?

You realize there would be no Nova Roma without the famous Patrician
Gentes
that ensured its survival.
So in answer to your question, YES IT DOES!

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]