Salve amice!

I will go a step further. How about the state granting 5 or 10 Census
Points in each of the first three years of citizenship plus a one time
grant of either 10 for patricians or 5 for plebeians when they join.
Granting points during the first three years will provide time to meet
the requirements for office if they choose to pursue the cursus honorum.

Optime vale.

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!





-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and
discussion
From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@... Date: Thu, July 11, 2013 5:35 pm
To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Salve amice

How about this as a compromise. We cut it off after one year after
joining. That way it is aimed at new citizens only. A jump start from
the "state" on CP and thereafter it is up to them.

Vale bene
Caesar

________________________________
From: M. Pompeius Caninus <caninus@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 6:12 PM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and
discussion



Caninus Fabio sal.

Based on what you, Caesar and Caeca have said, I can see there is some
value in granting Census Points for Patrician or Plebeian status as
well
as granting points for time as a citizen. These small awards of Census
Points allow for a bit of Century Class mobility for those citizens who
have no desire to pursue the Cursus Honorum. I would rather the Census
Points reflect a purer measure of activity and contribution of effort
but I can live with including points for these items in the final lex.

Fac valeas!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Lex Cornelia de Centuriata - Text and
discussion
From: QFabiusMaxmi@...
Date: Thu, July 11, 2013 3:45 pm
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

In a message dated 7/11/2013 2:18:30 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
caninus@... writes:

Does
being a Patrician or a Plebeian really reflect any activity worthy of a
reward? Of course not. So drop the points for this social status and
make things a bit more simple and straightforward.

QFM: And what do we Patricians think of this?

You realize there would be no Nova Roma without the famous Patrician
Gentes
that ensured its survival.
So in answer to your question, YES IT DOES!

Q. Fabius Maximus

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve Triari!



Oh! I didn't know you were a stringer for the Tiber Tattler! How .nice
.for you! Actually, we don't need secret weapons. One doesn't, when one
has the fastest horses and the best drivers!



Vale Bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Albata Victoria Semper Albata!



(advice to citizens: Place your wagers wisely! White is such a nice color,
don't you think?)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

GO BLUE!

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: c.mariacaeca@...
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2013 22:26:14 -0400
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Veneta uncovers Albata's Secret Weapon


























Salve Triari!



Oh! I didn't know you were a stringer for the Tiber Tattler! How .nice

.for you! Actually, we don't need secret weapons. One doesn't, when one

has the fastest horses and the best drivers!



Vale Bene!



C. Maria Caeca



Albata Victoria Semper Albata!



(advice to citizens: Place your wagers wisely! White is such a nice color,

don't you think?)



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete!

Yes, GO BLUE! I've heard that ... Parthia is lovely this time of year ;).
Just leave the race to Albata, we'll be just fine!

Albata Victoria! Semper Albata!
Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca

Ti. Galerius Paulinus censor Cn. Iulius Caesar censor sal.

CENSORIAL EDICT - REMOVAL OF NOTA

I. The censorial nota placed upon Quintus Fabius Maximus is cancelled due to his having satisfied the censors by way of a public apology to Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.

II. Quintus Fabius Maximus's rights to vote within Nova Roma are fully restored and he is re-admitted to the Senate of Nova Roma under the provisions of section IV.A of the lex Popillia senatoria. 

Optime valete

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

on
were
aediles
were
wrote:
of the
citizens to
magistrates
it.
years.
Consul for
year.
twins
years.
Tribune of
Governor
many
we
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years.
positions
Latin:
years.
positions
substitute
The
may
years.
should
should
but
all.
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Apparitore
puberty
immature
encourage
Roma and
the
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approval of
from the
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replacement
right
Full
d.
vote
in the
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

for
(going
be
maximum
than
at
the
studied
a
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Nova
not
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had
eligibility
V of the
citizens to
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on it.
howler
singular;
years.
Consul for
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Tribune
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How
do we
be
Provincial
years.
Latin:
years.
here. The
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you
the
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at
must met
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magistrate,
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for a vote
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unless
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes!

It is a cooler afternoon here in Rome, and the quiz competitors are enjoying a break from their research.

There were four questions to be answered, and the answers follow below. I must applaud all five competitors on the high quality of their research, and the way they have presented their answers. Here are the official answers:-

4. How many wars were there against this Roman enemy?

No one had any trouble with this one. There were three Punic Wars between Rome and Carthage.

5. Name the chief commander, on each side, at the end of the first of these wars?

This one saw a division between competitors.
The chief commander on the Roman side was clearly Gaius Lutatius Catulus, the Roman Consul and force commander. Everyone agreed on this part.

However, there was a different view on the second part. The majority named Hamilcar Barca, but one named Hanno the Great (the second of the three Hanno personalities). Hanno was indeed appointed to command the Carthaginian fleet, which was defeated at the final battle of the war, the Battle of the Aegates Islands. In the context of this decisive battle, Hanno was indeed a commander. But he was not the supreme overall Carthaginian commander. The Carthaginians, on hearing of the naval defeat, at once gave gave Hamilcar the authority to negotiate peace with the Romans.  So,Hamilcar Barca was the chief commander of all the Carthaginian forces at the end of the First Punic War.


6. Where were the instructions for setting up these games found?

All agreed on this one. The instructions for the Ludi Appolinares were found in the Carmina Marciana, the two books of the oracle Marcius. The Sibylline Books were also consulted to confirm that the prophecy was correct.

7. Where in Rome were these games first held?

And yes, indeed, the Ludi Apollinares were first held in the Circus Maximus. All five were again correct.

I shall post the remaining three questions very shortly. Please note that these next three will need to be answered by this time tomorrow (Saturday)

Valete omnes!

Crispus

Salvete omnes!

Just as the contestants were enjoying their break, here come the final set of three questions.

And we're going for a sprint finish, because these three need to be answered by this time tomorrow.

8. Name two ancient sites, both beginning with the letter D, where Apollo was honoured.

9. What sea creature is particularly associated with the god?

10. In what year (written as a Roman year) were these Ludi first held in Nova Roma?


Please send your answers only to this address:-
****************************************************
jbshr1pwa@...
****************************************************

Please do NOT reply to this message.

Good luck to you all, and I hope to see you all here tomorrow.

Valete omnes!

Crispus

Salvete omnes,
 
I, L. Vitellius Triarius, Dominus praefectus venetus, hereby appoint L. Ulpius Alletus as Procurator factionis for Factio Veneta to serve for both the Stables and the Ludus.  As Procurator factionis, he will be responsible for maintaining the historical records databases and assisting the Dominus factionis with any questions by Factio members concerning the operations of the Factio in the various Ludi games. 
 
This appointment falls within the private company sector.  Procuratores essentially are the private company equivalent of the Governmental Scribae, but do not earn CPs.
 
At this time, if anyone has questions about records updating/modifying/deleting on the various Factio Veneta pages, please contact Alletus or myself, and please DO NOT update the pages yourself.  This will prevent any mistakes or controversies in the historical record, and keep us from losing our minds amdst the confusion. 
 
If anyone would like to help with page coding, contact Alletus or myself.
 
Valete optime,
Triarius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,
 
We are beginning the updates of the Factio and Ludus pages on the wiki per the Curator. 
 
We are trying to update the historical records of each and bring everything up to date before the end of the year.
 
I need to know the following for the four Factiones:
 
1) Name of Dominus praefectus/a - The person in charge of the Stables (Circenses) and factio leader.
 
2) Name of Procurator (private company scriba) - who will be willing to assist with maintaining and updating the wiki pages for their Factio and Ludus.
 
3) Name of Lanista - The person who will be in charge of the Munera Gladiatoria (gladiators) and Venationes (animals).
 
4) Any historical records that Factio members may have on their Factio already.
 
5) Any content that you would like to have added to your Factio's page - We are going to standardize the pages, so Cives can navigate them better, however, there will be some parts that will customizable for the different companies, per the approval of the Factio Doms.
 
You may contact me on the Main List or email lvtriarius@...
 
Valete optime,
Triarius

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Scholastica,

I stand by every single word I typed.

Let me repeat it again.

I think we need to keep in mind that this "instructor" is the same one that
I stand by every single word.

Have a good day.

Vale,

Sulla


On Fri, Jul 12, 2013 at 12:23 AM, A. Tullia Scholastica <
fororom@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

I am very pleased that this is removed and we can put this episode in the
past and move froward.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 8:48 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
gn_iulius_caesar@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Avete Omnes,

It is my sincere pleasure to announce that one of our esteemed citizens has
had a wonderful and amazing achievement.

My friend, Senator Decius Iunius Palladius Invictus has published his first
book! It is currently available on Kindle and soon to be on paper.

Here is the link:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Emperors-American-ebook/dp/B00DSDPRMM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1373116212&sr=8-1&keywords=Emperor%27s+American+Art+McGrath

I wish him the best success and I am looking forward to reading his books!

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Dexter L. Cornelio Sullae consuli sine collega salutem,

Why the sudden need to limit the number of apparitors, when the number of magistrates is lower each year? The lack of citizens wanting to stand for magistracies makes you a consul without colleague, Crassus a praetor without colleague, many positions not fulfilled. 3 tribunes of the Plebs on 5 provided. 1 curul aedil, 1 edil plebeian instead of 2 for each magistracy, etc. I prefer to stop there than to develop all the disaster of this year about the number of magistrates.

You see and recognize that the magistrate positions are not yet, after 6 months, fulfilled but you propose a law for limiting the number of the apparitors? Where, in which sky are you living?

Reading the beginning of the proposal I see that you wrote: "creating bureaucratic nepotism is highly discouraged."
First that is absolutely contrary to the roman way of life, where a son was the mirror and the living continuation of his father. Young son and nephew of Cicero, for example, followed him in his province to learn their future job. A young legate generally followed his father or his patronus to learn how becoming a magistrate. It was the Roman custom.

Secondly this phrase seems only a wish, "highly discouraged" by which penalties?

Finally, your proposals of law, as usual, want to repeal the Roman virtues or customs by laying down your morals. And perhaps do you prefer the "gangism" or the mafia to the "nepotism"?

In this law, say you, you want to "prevent abuse of the century points" but in the lex Cornelia Centuriata you propose the top of this abuse in converting them into cash! How may we trust you?

A lictor curiatus is not an apparitor, you have to retire them from this law. Lictores curiati are the representents of the curiae, as the curiae were 30, they cannot exceed the number of 30. They are not apparitors.

Why do you persist in making infamous the gens Cornelia with those kinds of perverted laws?

The best we have to do, citizens, is to vote: "No".

And you, Consul without colleague, please, convene the Comitia to elect your colleague.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. III Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

C. Petronius Dexter L. Cornelio Sullae consuli sine collega salutem,

This law improperly named "de cursu honorum" brings changes with at least an unfair requirement.

In ancient Rome you became senator after making the evidences of your skills during the holding of magistracies, in this perverted law, one may become censor, consul... after 1 year or 6 months as senator! This law is together unfair and perverted because it gives to an hubby of you, became senator by your wish, to apply and to be elected censor, consul with all the powers of these positions. It is a partisan law not a law proposed for the common good.

The Censor position indeed must be given after a long experience within the magistracies, after being passed and elected, after having official recognition by the votes of the people, and run the complete cursus of magistracies.

Idem with the consul position, a position which need candidates known and judged by the people in lower magistracies. A cursus needs a marked path, step by step.

By a law properly proposed on the Cursus Honorum, we all exspect the condition to candidate for each magistracy (age, time of citizenship...), each magistracy being an ordering step with the top of them in the censorship, we exspect a break more or less long between 2 magistracies' holding (in order to permit accusation by the dissastified and discontented citizens after an immunity year, by your law you give a sempiternal or forever immunity for the magistrates, we exspect too a time given (10 years for example) so that a magistrate may not run the same magistracy he yet hold, etc. Not those proposals are expected. Finally, as usual, your proposal of law repeals the current laws de cursu honorum not toward the best but toward the worst.

The best the citizens have to do is to vote: "NO".

I remind you that instead of proposing a pervert law, you have to convene the Comitia in order to make elected a colleague for you, consul without colleague.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. III Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

C. Petronius Dexter L. Cornelio Sullae consuli sine collega salutem,

Lol.
This kind of law is absolutely a game rule. Sulla consul, do you want to join the famous name of the Cornelii to a such shame? More you pay more you are distinguished. Money is your obsession, may we accept this obsession as our Nova Roman identity?

You permitt by a such law all what the philosophers, the wises and the good standing examples of Roman virtues showed us throught its republican history are denied and scorned.

I knew that Cn. Caesar with his project of "Reborn" Nova Roma wanted to make Nova Roma a game, but now I see that it is also your pattern, Sulla.

Why do you dare to convene the Comitia for making Nova Roma a play game? Do not we need more virtues than more virtual playgame? Nova Roma is not a money pump. It is not Las Vegas. I know that less citizens taxpayers each year may you bring to this shameful law, but I beg you to keep control and honor. By your law you look like a merchant, or as could say proud Romans a Carthaginian. Certainly the Romans too had the sense of the business, but not put in their identity. The prefaces of Sallust claim all the falling of the Roman virtues because of the money and the cupidity. I do not want to defend the poor against the rich, but I think that Nova Roma must have the project to reenact the Roman virtues not the American vices.

Unic consul, by Jove, your task indeed is to convene the Comitia for the election of your colleague. I believe that 6 months without colleague for you and for the praetor have to be ended. It is even unconstitutional.

Why this desir to distract the people from its duty in order to make him voting a rule of a play game? Century points as they are provided by the lex Vedia Centuriata are good enough and that sort of things does not need a new law.

So, my fellow citizens, the best you have to do is to vote: NO.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. III Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

C. Petronius Dexter L. Cornelio Sullae consuli sine collega salutem,

I recognize there your Carthaginian sense of business, but why do you look only on the Latinists and not also on the Virgin Vestals who are too exempt of the annual tax according to the lex Curiatia Iulia de tributo virginum Vestalium?

If as you say no one is exempt from the tax, why do you look only on the Latinists when they are not the only one to be exempted from tax? Because of Scholastica's Latinist status? You are perverted by your hate, the Comitia must not follow you in your hates.

As usual, your proposals of law discredit the fame of the gens Cornelia.

The best you have to do citizens, if you want to be fair about the Latinists and the virgins Vestal status, is to demonstrate that you are great and generous for scopes as the encouragement for the Latin or for some venerable religious positions as virgin Vestal, show your lack of cupidity and your intelligence in seeing behind the excuse of a virtuous "no one is exempt from tax" what Sulla really wants to do. This "no one is exempt from tax" seems virtuous because seeming equal for all, but is actually vicious because of the Sulla's cupidity, which brings him to exempt some individuals judged worthy of this exemption by the leges Arminia and Curiatia Julia, and if you want to be generous and comprehensive and make Nova Roma more attractive you have, my fellow citizens, to vote: NO.

In other hand, if no one may be exempt from tax, I remind you that a consul is not exempt from a colleague. Do not forget to convene the Comitia for the election of a colleague, o consul without colleague.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. III Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

Salvete omnes!

Welcome to Rome!

You're tuned to Nova Roma Radio, and your reporters today are C. Marcius Crispus and Caeso Tarquinius Scipio, bringing you all the latest news and reports from the grand horse race that will be taking place here in the city, at the Circus Maximus.

Now, normally we are there to watch the chariot races, but today we have a horse race between seven riders, representing between them all four of the race factions.

I'm walking down through the streets leading to the circus, and the crowds are already beginning to gather, especially around the stalls that have been set up to sell a fantastic range of merchandise to the spectators as they make their way to the race. I think all the merchants of Rome are here – I've just seen old Vindex with one of his wine stalls, and I just caught sight of some of his dray wagons carrying their load of amphorae and serving girls. He will make another fortune today as he has all the best locations around the stands.

And here are the baker and his girls with the honey cakes. I must just stop here for a moment and get some of these. They really are the best honey cakes in Rome, and that surely means the best ones in the world. Yes, just some of those please, and, no, settle down, I'm on radio – I'll catch up with you later on. (A chorus of giggles follows Crispus down the street.)

Oh look! Here are the stalls of the four factiones, the reds, blues, greens and whites, all packed with pompoms, streamers, hats, scarves, bunting, complete outfits for the most, or least discerning fans.

And here we are at last, the crowds gathering at the main gates waiting to get in and find the best seats. Well, they don't need to panic, because there is more than enough room in there for the biggest crowds you can imagine. Oh yes, when Rome wants to put on a show, she knows how to do it better than anywhere else.

But I've slipped round to the track and field entrance, and here I am in the stables, and there's my friend Scipio who has been here since early on finding out about the runners here today. "Salve Scipio!".

"Yes, salve amice! We've got 7 runners for the race today, and we can take a good close look at them as they are being made ready. This one is the first of the Albata stable, owned by Caeca, our Vestal. He's called Niger, and is a powerful black stallion with a white blaze on his forehead that shines out from his coat like a shaft of lightning. And this is Owen, his jockey. He's Welsh, as you can probably tell from his small wiry build, just the right weight for a jockey. But he can have a fiery temper out on the track when he wants to carve a path through his rivals" Maria Caeca uses Arianrhod as her trainer, and she seems to have a magic touch with horses, knowing everything there is to know about their temperament and their management. Some say her skills are almost mystical, or perhaps magical, and perhaps she can bring some luck to Caeca today.

Okay, next in the line is Cn Iulius Caesar's horse Venetica Senex, running in Praesina colours. You can see this is an old horse now, long past her prime you might think, but Caesar thinks she might just surprise us today. Why? - well because of the combination of this horse and jockey. The jockey is Dumnorix, who is over there lounging against the wall. He is a surly individual, not very active, and irritable if you bother him. He gives the impression of being overconfident, but his experience is probably to blame. Some say he is only good for racing at beer festivals in the remoter parts of Gaul. But you were down at the gallops yesterday, weren't you, Scipio, so what did you think? "Well, this horse and rider really do seem to suit one another. Caesar has obviously got them well paired, because Dumnorix will be hanging back until he gets into a temper towards the end, and Senex will benefit from a slow race with just one push at the end. Most of the fans haven't seen the way this combination might just work today, so Caesar has got some very good odds from the bookies".

Next come Russata, the reds, and first its T Popillia Laenas's horse Salami, ridden by Farcas. This looks a very sleek and well turned out horse, beautifully decked out in red ribbons and strappings. This is another one that will find all its energy later on in the race, so there could be a fierce fight for the finish here today.

And right next in line is the other Russata entry, owned by Cn Cornelius Lentulus. This one is called Philologia, and is ridden by Dorca, a fit and strong young man who we have seen a few times before. If he keeps to his usual tactics he will hurry on the straights and try not to lose position on the bends. He could do well, but he hasn't excited the betting supporters.

And here is the first of the Blue Veneta entries, and its Maximus Oblivius owned by Ti Galerius Paulinus the Censor. We don't know very much about this horse, except that we expect to see a fast speed right from the start. That might not be the wisest tactic today, as the weather is hot and the going is certain to be hard and fast.

And another Veneta entry, this time its Neptune's Wrath, which sounds like a good name for a lively horse. This is ridden by Artorius Britannicus – its amazing what a lot of Brits are here today. The owner is Lucius Ulpius Atellus, who is quite a new citizen but with a military interest, so he will get a lot of support today. Artorius will keep him fairly well back until the last minute, and then summon up every ounce of his strength and speed for a sprint finish. We think he should do quite well.

And now another Albata mare, a beautiful white young horse called Snowflake. She is ridden by Maleos of Alexandria, and owned by C. Decius Laterensis. She does not look as strong as some of the others here today, so we think Maleos will try to keep her back with the pack for most of the race and try for a last minute quick spurt.

And now all the riders are checking that their coloured outfits are straight and tidy, the grooms are putting the final touches to the horses, and the factio supporters are giving a last pat and hug to their teams. We need to get out of the way and make our way up to the stands, with just time to stock up on some tasty snacks to keep us fortified during the afternoon's excitement.

And as we make our way through the crowds, we can see the whole of Nova Roma is here, all dressed in their best outfits, wearing their factio colours and waving flags and pompoms. Goodness, what a lively and colourful sight, and what a noise too as the team songs start to be sung. At the moment the singing is rather melodious, but just wait until the race begins – then it can get quite rowdy.

Just time to remind you that there is just the one grand race today, and it will be three laps. We'll be back to cover it, and the other events of the Ludi, later on. Come on, Scipio, lets get up to our commentary box. But first lets just grab some refreshing drinks from the Vindex girls. You like a sweet fizz, I'll have a sour, just the job for a hot afternoon . Stay tuned for more of the broadcast later.

Valete omnes!

Crispus

Caesar Crispo sal.

Just for the record, the name of my horse is VENEFICA SENEX. The English translation of that is "Old Witch". 

Optime vale

________________________________
From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS <jbshr1pwa@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 5:52 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] LUDI APOLLINARES 2766 - HORSE RACE - PART 1


Salvete omnes!

<snipped
Okay, next in the line is Cn Iulius Caesar's horse Venetica Senex, running in Praesina colours. You can see this is an old horse now, long past her prime you might think, but Caesar thinks she might just surprise us today. Why? - well because of the combination of this horse and jockey. The jockey is Dumnorix, who is over there lounging against the wall. He is a surly individual, not very active, and irritable if you bother him. He gives the impression of being overconfident, but his experience is probably to blame. Some say he is only good for racing at beer festivals in the remoter parts of Gaul. But you were down at the gallops yesterday, weren't you, Scipio, so what did you think? "Well, this horse and rider really do seem to suit one another. Caesar has obviously got them well paired, because Dumnorix will be hanging back until he gets into a temper towards the end, and Senex will benefit from a slow race with just one push at the end. Most of the
fans haven't seen the way this combination might just work today, so Caesar has got some very good odds from the bookies".

<snipped
Valete omnes!

Crispus

Ave Dexter,

I have read your post 3 times. Each time looking for an actual complaint
and I cannot find it.

I can understand that you are going to vote no on all of law proposals, as
you have done, when you actually turn out to vote. But, Dexter, I said
this on the "To Dexter and Scholastica" thread if you remember, I am
interested in actually hearing constructive criticism and ways to improve
the law - and my point is that - that is entirely lacking here. And, for
that I am disappointed.

As for the suffect elections - that was also asked and answered in the "To
Dexter and Scholastica" thread.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Ave Dexter,

I used the same name as the previously promulgated lex in the Tabularium
for consistency.

In Nova Roma we have had privatii who have held the rank of senator.

In order of oldest: Agricola was one. Venii was one and Crispus is also
classified as a Pravti

http://novaroma.org/nr/Senate_(Nova_Roma)#The_current_album_senatorium

I do not even understand part of your post, "This law is together unfair
and perverted because it gives to an hubby of you, became senator by your
wish, to apply and to be elected censor, consul with all the powers of
these positions. It is a partisan law not a law proposed for the common
good" What does this mean? Are you saying Caesar is gay?

Anyway, as for the Suffect answer again, as I stated in my previous
response: That was asked and answered in the "To Dexter and Scholastica"
thread.

Dexter, I hate to say this, but I honestly think that Scholastica
contributed far more constructive criticism than you, and I am surprised by
that.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Ave Dexter,

It isn't a Carthaginian sense of business, but a Jewish sense of fair play,
Dexter. If you are going to use a stereotype to try to defame me, as you
are trying to do. Why don't you put up a picture of one of those posters
that show a Jew with a big hook nose while you are at it - and go for the
full effect.

I can answer your question about the Vestal. - Because I have talked to
the Virgo Maxima and she assured me through her words and actions that she
intends on paying the tax - and every future Vestal she trains she will do
her best to instruct them to pay the tax as well. I trust our Virgo
Maxima. And, then ultimately, we only have 1 Vestal in Nova Roma
Currently. Whereas just a few short years ago we had up to 4 individuals
who were qualified to be exempt from the taxes as Latinists (all of them
were in the 1st class too - means that NR treasury would be severely
impacted by the loss of revenue). I choose to put my priority on the one
law that had the bigger impact on the Treasury.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Sulla: You know exactly what I mean. But, in case you do not know what I
am talking about let us pull up the dictionary and clear this issue up.

A *Bureaucracy* is "a body of nonelective government officials" and/or "an
administrative policy-making group.
*Nepotism* is favoritism <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favoritism in politics or business to relatives
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinship of merit <http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/merit
Let's combine them together and relate it back to Nova Roma shall we?

http://novaroma.org/nr/Officium_Consulare_MMDCCLXI
http://novaroma.org/nr/Officina_Praetrix_MMDCCLX
http://novaroma.org/nr/IT:Officina_Praetoris_MMDCCLXI


And, those were the first three links I actually clicked on.

No office is sufficiently busy that it requires a staff the size of a
football team. The point of the lex is that the person elected should be
the primary person doing the work! To paraphrase the words of Harry
Truman, the buck stops with the elected magistrate. Nova Roma did not
elect a staff of apparitores to do the work, but they elected the
magistrate!


Sulla: You know, I am glad you brought that up. I believe you have
forgotten this law:

http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Cornelia_de_linguis_publicis_(Nova_Roma)

I wrote it. As you can see that law covers the establishment of
interpreters appointed by the Senate of Nova Roma. Therefore no magistrate
would actually need to hire scribes to do the work for them. Nova Roma is
capable of appointing individuals to serve in that position and it would
not affect their Apparitore limit.


<SNIP
Sulla: Two words: The Ludi

Sulla: Again, see my response above. :)

Respectfully,

Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave Dexter

<SNIP
The Constitution of Nova Roma disagrees with you, Dexter:

*9*. *Apparitores* (Attendants). Collectively, the *apparitores* shall not
be considered magistrates, but rather shall be appointed into various *
decuriae* (corporations) to fulfill those necessary functions as shall be
assigned to them by law enacted by one of the *comitia*. They shall include
the *lictores*, *lictores curiati*, *scribae*, and *accensi*.

http://novaroma.org/nr/Current_constitution_(Nova_Roma)

<SNIP [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

"Next come Russata, the reds, and first its T Popillia Laenas's horse Salami, ridden by Farcas."
 
(Climbing atop a newsreader's podium for a better view, Triarius chokes, blows Falernian everywhere and bursts into laughter, saying, "THAT IS HILARIOUS!!!!  SALAMI!  WOOHOO!  GO BLUES - GIVE 'EM SOME BLUE CHEESE FOR THAT RED SANDWICH! LOL!!!) 

 

________________________________
From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS <jbshr1pwa@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 7:52 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] LUDI APOLLINARES 2766 - HORSE RACE - PART 1


 

Salvete omnes!

Welcome to Rome!

You're tuned to Nova Roma Radio, and your reporters today are C. Marcius Crispus and Caeso Tarquinius Scipio, bringing you all the latest news and reports from the grand horse race that will be taking place here in the city, at the Circus Maximus.

Now, normally we are there to watch the chariot races, but today we have a horse race between seven riders, representing between them all four of the race factions.

I'm walking down through the streets leading to the circus, and the crowds are already beginning to gather, especially around the stalls that have been set up to sell a fantastic range of merchandise to the spectators as they make their way to the race. I think all the merchants of Rome are here – I've just seen old Vindex with one of his wine stalls, and I just caught sight of some of his dray wagons carrying their load of amphorae and serving girls. He will make another fortune today as he has all the best locations around the stands.

And here are the baker and his girls with the honey cakes. I must just stop here for a moment and get some of these. They really are the best honey cakes in Rome, and that surely means the best ones in the world. Yes, just some of those please, and, no, settle down, I'm on radio – I'll catch up with you later on. (A chorus of giggles follows Crispus down the street.)

Oh look! Here are the stalls of the four factiones, the reds, blues, greens and whites, all packed with pompoms, streamers, hats, scarves, bunting, complete outfits for the most, or least discerning fans.

And here we are at last, the crowds gathering at the main gates waiting to get in and find the best seats. Well, they don't need to panic, because there is more than enough room in there for the biggest crowds you can imagine. Oh yes, when Rome wants to put on a show, she knows how to do it better than anywhere else.

But I've slipped round to the track and field entrance, and here I am in the stables, and there's my friend Scipio who has been here since early on finding out about the runners here today. "Salve Scipio!".

"Yes, salve amice! We've got 7 runners for the race today, and we can take a good close look at them as they are being made ready. This one is the first of the Albata stable, owned by Caeca, our Vestal. He's called Niger, and is a powerful black stallion with a white blaze on his forehead that shines out from his coat like a shaft of lightning. And this is Owen, his jockey. He's Welsh, as you can probably tell from his small wiry build, just the right weight for a jockey. But he can have a fiery temper out on the track when he wants to carve a path through his rivals" Maria Caeca uses Arianrhod as her trainer, and she seems to have a magic touch with horses, knowing everything there is to know about their temperament and their management. Some say her skills are almost mystical, or perhaps magical, and perhaps she can bring some luck to Caeca today.

Okay, next in the line is Cn Iulius Caesar's horse Venetica Senex, running in Praesina colours. You can see this is an old horse now, long past her prime you might think, but Caesar thinks she might just surprise us today. Why? - well because of the combination of this horse and jockey. The jockey is Dumnorix, who is over there lounging against the wall. He is a surly individual, not very active, and irritable if you bother him. He gives the impression of being overconfident, but his experience is probably to blame. Some say he is only good for racing at beer festivals in the remoter parts of Gaul. But you were down at the gallops yesterday, weren't you, Scipio, so what did you think? "Well, this horse and rider really do seem to suit one another. Caesar has obviously got them well paired, because Dumnorix will be hanging back until he gets into a temper towards the end, and Senex will benefit from a slow race with just one push at the end. Most of the
fans haven't seen the way this combination might just work today, so Caesar has got some very good odds from the bookies".

Next come Russata, the reds, and first its T Popillia Laenas's horse Salami, ridden by Farcas. This looks a very sleek and well turned out horse, beautifully decked out in red ribbons and strappings. This is another one that will find all its energy later on in the race, so there could be a fierce fight for the finish here today.

And right next in line is the other Russata entry, owned by Cn Cornelius Lentulus. This one is called Philologia, and is ridden by Dorca, a fit and strong young man who we have seen a few times before. If he keeps to his usual tactics he will hurry on the straights and try not to lose position on the bends. He could do well, but he hasn't excited the betting supporters.

And here is the first of the Blue Veneta entries, and its Maximus Oblivius owned by Ti Galerius Paulinus the Censor. We don't know very much about this horse, except that we expect to see a fast speed right from the start. That might not be the wisest tactic today, as the weather is hot and the going is certain to be hard and fast.

And another Veneta entry, this time its Neptune's Wrath, which sounds like a good name for a lively horse. This is ridden by Artorius Britannicus – its amazing what a lot of Brits are here today. The owner is Lucius Ulpius Atellus, who is quite a new citizen but with a military interest, so he will get a lot of support today. Artorius will keep him fairly well back until the last minute, and then summon up every ounce of his strength and speed for a sprint finish. We think he should do quite well.

And now another Albata mare, a beautiful white young horse called Snowflake. She is ridden by Maleos of Alexandria, and owned by C. Decius Laterensis. She does not look as strong as some of the others here today, so we think Maleos will try to keep her back with the pack for most of the race and try for a last minute quick spurt.

And now all the riders are checking that their coloured outfits are straight and tidy, the grooms are putting the final touches to the horses, and the factio supporters are giving a last pat and hug to their teams. We need to get out of the way and make our way up to the stands, with just time to stock up on some tasty snacks to keep us fortified during the afternoon's excitement.

And as we make our way through the crowds, we can see the whole of Nova Roma is here, all dressed in their best outfits, wearing their factio colours and waving flags and pompoms. Goodness, what a lively and colourful sight, and what a noise too as the team songs start to be sung. At the moment the singing is rather melodious, but just wait until the race begins – then it can get quite rowdy.

Just time to remind you that there is just the one grand race today, and it will be three laps. We'll be back to cover it, and the other events of the Ludi, later on. Come on, Scipio, lets get up to our commentary box. But first lets just grab some refreshing drinks from the Vindex girls. You like a sweet fizz, I'll have a sour, just the job for a hot afternoon . Stay tuned for more of the broadcast later.

Valete omnes!

Crispus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes!

Welcome back to our broadcast from the Circus Maximus, where I and my colleague Scipio are about to bring you coverage of the grand race held to mark the Ludi Apollinares.

Its an exciting afternoon here at the Circus, the sun is beating down from a cloudless blue sky, the stands are all packed with spectators, the factiones are out in force all wearing their colourful outfits and waving flags, ribbons and pompoms. And just listen to that singing! There's a huge wall of sound rolling down the stands, as one group after another take up their team song.

All the citizens of Nova Roma seem to have packed into the circus today, determined to cheer on their favourites as they battle it out in the dust of the track. Its hot and the race is going to be very fast today. The leaders of each faction are whipping up their groups, and there is some real rivalry breaking out now between the different teams.

And the horses and riders are just trotting round the track so that the crowds can see them and decide where to put their money. We have been following the betting, and it seems that Caesar's entry, Venefica Senex , has been getting a surprising amount of the backing. Caesar 's factio is really putting on a show down there – they've got posters showing an old woman in a witches' hat – ah, I see, that's Venefica Senex, or the old witch. And the next one is a fat old Gaul drowsing over a litre of beer, that's the rider Dumnorix. Certainly a mount that has seen far better days, but perhaps the lazy Gaul will summon up enough energy to achieve some action here today. He hasn't managed to do much more than sleep in the saddle in the past, but knowing Caesar and his domestic punishments, I'm sure this Gaul will get a good session with the riding crop if he doesn't improve.

And they're now coming back up to the start, and in his box below me in the stands I can see the Praetor, Caius Aemilius Crassus, surrounded by his cohors team, rising to start the race. He waits until the horses are all lined up ready, looks carefully around the track, raises the mappa, lets it fall, and they're off!

Maximus Oblivius, Paulinus's horse for Veneta, is off to a very fast start, and that's followed by Philologia owned by Lentulus for Russata. Then its Snowflake for Albata owned by Laterensis, with Venefica Senex ridden by Dumnorix for Praesina, and Salami owned by Laenas for Russata. Niger for Albata and Neptune's Wrath for Veneta bringing up the rear.

And as they go down the first straight its Maximus Oblivius going flat out, chased by Philologia, then Snowflake, then Venefica Senex, Niger, Salami and Neptune's Wrath. Now Philologia is being held back, falling alongside Snowflake and Venefica Senex, who are now joined by Salami, then a gap and at the rear its Niger and Neptune's Wrath.

And after Maximus Oblivius its Philologia, Snowflake and Venefica Senex, joined by Salami and Niger, Neptunes' Wrath still trailing as the leaders move towards the first bend.

And its Maximus Oblivius first into the bend, then a gap, Philologia coming through on the outside ahead of Venefica Senex, Snowflake and Salami. Then Niger and finally Neptune's Wrath.

And now Niger has put on a spurt, moving up to tackle Salami for firth place, Snowflake in third, Philologia in second and still Maximus Oblivius racing ahead in first place. Maximus must be going far too fast in this heat, this really is the wrong strategy.

And as they come out of the bend, its Maximus from Philologia, and Snowflake – yes Snowflake has overtaken Venefica Senex, then its Salami Fifth, then Niger sixth and Neptune's Wrath in the rear.

And now they come down the straight, and its going to be a fast run. The crowd begin to shout as they feel the race beginning to develop, here they all come now, Maximus Oblivius bathed in sweat, Philologia and Venefica Senex are neck and neck from Snowflake and Salami, Niger is challenging and Neptune's Wrath last out of the bend.

As they come through the stands its Maximus Oblivius still in the lead, but the pace seems too much for him, Venefica Senex has fallen back, - what's this? Dumnorix seems to be having trouble staying upright – yes he's clinging on but riding very unsteadily now, Philologia has put on speed and moved into second place. Then Snowflake and Salami, Niger moving up fast and Neptune's Wrath. And now Caesar is on his feet, yelling at Dumnorix to wake up and start racing, Dumnorix almost falls off but clings to Venefica's neck and pulls himself up, Venefica shakes him off her and tries to recover her poise, Dumnorix whips her on and they start to close up on Philologia.

In the main pack its Snowflake and Salami from Niger who is coming up very fast, then Neptune's Wrath struggling to keep up. And now Niger is coming through – yes the little Welshman, Owen, is pushing him onwards, and he's hurtling between Snowflake and Salami. Just listen to those crowds, they're shouting out for Caeca and the Whites. Niger is going flat out, Owen has his head hard down, he's got past Salami and is neck and neck with Snowflake for fourth place.

Down they go towards the second bend, and Maximus Oblivius is beginning to slow up, Philologia is starting to catch him, but Venefica Senex is hard on his tail, then Snowflake and Niger, the two for Albata are neck and neck, and Salami and Neptune's Wrath bringing up the rear.

At the bend, Maximus Oblivius is definitely slowing, with Philologia again running fast down this straight. Venefica Senex is holding on as they reach the bend, and there go Snowflake and Niger, the two Albata horses. Salami and Neptune's Wrath are both together now as they go into the bend.

And through the bend I can see that Owen on Niger is pushing into Snowflake, lashing out with the whip to unsettle her and she tries to make a tight turn. Niger is gaining as they come out into the third straight, and after them its Salami and Neptune's Wrath together as they open up into the straight.

And now Maximus Oblivius, Paulinus's horse, is beginning to lose pace, dropping back into second place behind Philologica. It looks as if the jockey is trying to pull him back, but Maximus is weakening fast. Philologia is now clear of Venefica Senex, but I think that Philologia is also suffering the strain of this race, yes- I would be expecting a spurt now from Philologia on this straight, but Lentulus's rider seems to be resting this horse now. So Venefica Senex now has a clear path through to the lead, and Dumnorix is giving his all as he hurtles up the straight.

Snowflake and Niger are out of the turn, and Salami is close on their tails, with Neptune's Wrath in final place.

And Maximus Oblivius is dropping out – yes, his rider is pulling him off the track and out of the race. That is a sad finish for Maximus and for Paulinus his owner, but the tactics chosen for today were not suited to the heat or the hard going.

And now there is a new move at the back, where Neptune's Wrath is making a fresh challenge. He's moved up close on Snowflake, and Salami, Snowflake and Neptune's Wrath are now speeding together up this straight. Niger has managed to stay just ahead of them, and the crowd bursts out into applause and wild chants and singing of team songs as they hurtle past the stands. For the first time the Blues are able to cheer their rider on Neptune's Wrath, and the old chant rolls across the stands. "Blue is the colour, racing is the game, we're here together, winning all the fame". Its the famous old song, and they are delighted to be able to sing it.

But at the front its Venefica Senex heading towards the turn, with Philologia continuing to slow, and now being challenged by the pack of Niger, Snowflake, Neptune's Wrath and Salami.

Round they go, and coming out in the lead is Venefica Senex still clear of the slowing Philologia, and Niger, Snowflake, Neptune's Wrath and Salami all ready for a real race now. And Salami is moving through – yes he's pushing ahead, but strongly challenged by Niger, with little Owen lashing out in all directions as he is determined to get past. And now they are passing Philologia, Niger and Salami still fighting it out, Snowflake coming through behind to overtake Philologia. So as they pass the stands its Venefica Senex going better than we have ever seen before, followed by Niger and Salami going neck and neck, with Snowflake and Neptune's Wrath together at the back.

As they tear past the stands its Venefica Senex from Salami and Niger, then Neptune's Wrath and Snowflake. Russata and Albata fans are going mad with delight, pompoms and streamers flying in all directions.

As they come up to the bend its Venefica Senex still in the lead, a very strange expression on Dumnorix's face as he realises that he is actually racing and leading for the first time in his life, Niger and Salami coming up close together to mount a fresh challenge, and Neptune's Wrath now moving ahead of Snowflake. Yes, Snowflake can't keep up this fierce pace in all this heat, she is beginning to tire and drop back to join Philologia at the rear.

So at the turn its now Venefica Senex keeping a clear lead from Niger and Salami, with Snowflake and Neptune's Wrath in fourth and fifth. But Now Neptune's Wrath is making his move, galloping fast on the straight, level with Niger and Salami, now moving to the outside to fight for second place. Yes, he's through, and Veneta are going wild again. "Blue is our colour" comes the old tune again. Niger and Salami wonder what's happened – they're fighting it out for third place all of a sudden. Up they go, and the speed is wild and amazing. Venefica Senex is flying like the wind – is that what witches are meant to do? The hooves of Neptune's Wrath are crashing out a fierce rhythm on the hard track as the dust and sand fly up to coat the entire scene. Snowflake is gamely trying to stay in the race, but that seems unlikely now that they are at the last bend.

Round they come, and Venefica Senex is well clear, just needing to keep up this pace for a comfortable win. Neptune's Wrath is in second place, then a gap, then Niger and Salami fighting it out for third place. And now the crowd on this side go wild as the hooves thunder down past the stands, pompoms and streamers going wild, songs and chants roaring out.

And at the line its Venefica Senex, well clear of Neptune's Wrath, and by a whisker its Salami in third place, from Niger in fourth, Snowflake limping in behind, and Philologia coming in sixth. Maximus Oblivius, Paulinus's horse, did not finish, but will live to race another day.

Well, Ladies and Gentlemen, the excitement for that race was amazing, but for now I will return you to the studio.

Valete omnes!

Crispus

Congrats to the Greenie Weenies! WOOHOO!
 
Party at the Veneta Stables anyway!
 
Blue is the colour, racing is the game, we're here together, winning all the fame!
Blue is the colour, racing is the game, we're here together, winning all the fame!
Blue is the colour, racing is the game, we're here together... (fades into the distance)


________________________________
From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS <jbshr1pwa@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 12:01 PM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] LUDI APOLLINARES 2766 - HORSERACE - THE RACE


 

Salvete omnes!

Welcome back to our broadcast from the Circus Maximus, where I and my colleague Scipio are about to bring you coverage of the grand race held to mark the Ludi Apollinares.

Its an exciting afternoon here at the Circus, the sun is beating down from a cloudless blue sky, the stands are all packed with spectators, the factiones are out in force all wearing their colourful outfits and waving flags, ribbons and pompoms. And just listen to that singing! There's a huge wall of sound rolling down the stands, as one group after another take up their team song.

All the citizens of Nova Roma seem to have packed into the circus today, determined to cheer on their favourites as they battle it out in the dust of the track. Its hot and the race is going to be very fast today. The leaders of each faction are whipping up their groups, and there is some real rivalry breaking out now between the different teams.

And the horses and riders are just trotting round the track so that the crowds can see them and decide where to put their money. We have been following the betting, and it seems that Caesar's entry, Venefica Senex , has been getting a surprising amount of the backing. Caesar 's factio is really putting on a show down there – they've got posters showing an old woman in a witches' hat – ah, I see, that's Venefica Senex, or the old witch. And the next one is a fat old Gaul drowsing over a litre of beer, that's the rider Dumnorix. Certainly a mount that has seen far better days, but perhaps the lazy Gaul will summon up enough energy to achieve some action here today. He hasn't managed to do much more than sleep in the saddle in the past, but knowing Caesar and his domestic punishments, I'm sure this Gaul will get a good session with the riding crop if he doesn't improve.

And they're now coming back up to the start, and in his box below me in the stands I can see the Praetor, Caius Aemilius Crassus, surrounded by his cohors team, rising to start the race. He waits until the horses are all lined up ready, looks carefully around the track, raises the mappa, lets it fall, and they're off!

Maximus Oblivius, Paulinus's horse for Veneta, is off to a very fast start, and that's followed by Philologia owned by Lentulus for Russata. Then its Snowflake for Albata owned by Laterensis, with Venefica Senex ridden by Dumnorix for Praesina, and Salami owned by Laenas for Russata. Niger for Albata and Neptune's Wrath for Veneta bringing up the rear.

And as they go down the first straight its Maximus Oblivius going flat out, chased by Philologia, then Snowflake, then Venefica Senex, Niger, Salami and Neptune's Wrath. Now Philologia is being held back, falling alongside Snowflake and Venefica Senex, who are now joined by Salami, then a gap and at the rear its Niger and Neptune's Wrath.

And after Maximus Oblivius its Philologia, Snowflake and Venefica Senex, joined by Salami and Niger, Neptunes' Wrath still trailing as the leaders move towards the first bend.

And its Maximus Oblivius first into the bend, then a gap, Philologia coming through on the outside ahead of Venefica Senex, Snowflake and Salami. Then Niger and finally Neptune's Wrath.

And now Niger has put on a spurt, moving up to tackle Salami for firth place, Snowflake in third, Philologia in second and still Maximus Oblivius racing ahead in first place. Maximus must be going far too fast in this heat, this really is the wrong strategy.

And as they come out of the bend, its Maximus from Philologia, and Snowflake – yes Snowflake has overtaken Venefica Senex, then its Salami Fifth, then Niger sixth and Neptune's Wrath in the rear.

And now they come down the straight, and its going to be a fast run. The crowd begin to shout as they feel the race beginning to develop, here they all come now, Maximus Oblivius bathed in sweat, Philologia and Venefica Senex are neck and neck from Snowflake and Salami, Niger is challenging and Neptune's Wrath last out of the bend.

As they come through the stands its Maximus Oblivius still in the lead, but the pace seems too much for him, Venefica Senex has fallen back, - what's this? Dumnorix seems to be having trouble staying upright – yes he's clinging on but riding very unsteadily now, Philologia has put on speed and moved into second place. Then Snowflake and Salami, Niger moving up fast and Neptune's Wrath. And now Caesar is on his feet, yelling at Dumnorix to wake up and start racing, Dumnorix almost falls off but clings to Venefica's neck and pulls himself up, Venefica shakes him off her and tries to recover her poise, Dumnorix whips her on and they start to close up on Philologia.

In the main pack its Snowflake and Salami from Niger who is coming up very fast, then Neptune's Wrath struggling to keep up. And now Niger is coming through – yes the little Welshman, Owen, is pushing him onwards, and he's hurtling between Snowflake and Salami. Just listen to those crowds, they're shouting out for Caeca and the Whites. Niger is going flat out, Owen has his head hard down, he's got past Salami and is neck and neck with Snowflake for fourth place.

Down they go towards the second bend, and Maximus Oblivius is beginning to slow up, Philologia is starting to catch him, but Venefica Senex is hard on his tail, then Snowflake and Niger, the two for Albata are neck and neck, and Salami and Neptune's Wrath bringing up the rear.

At the bend, Maximus Oblivius is definitely slowing, with Philologia again running fast down this straight. Venefica Senex is holding on as they reach the bend, and there go Snowflake and Niger, the two Albata horses. Salami and Neptune's Wrath are both together now as they go into the bend.

And through the bend I can see that Owen on Niger is pushing into Snowflake, lashing out with the whip to unsettle her and she tries to make a tight turn. Niger is gaining as they come out into the third straight, and after them its Salami and Neptune's Wrath together as they open up into the straight.

And now Maximus Oblivius, Paulinus's horse, is beginning to lose pace, dropping back into second place behind Philologica. It looks as if the jockey is trying to pull him back, but Maximus is weakening fast. Philologia is now clear of Venefica Senex, but I think that Philologia is also suffering the strain of this race, yes- I would be expecting a spurt now from Philologia on this straight, but Lentulus's rider seems to be resting this horse now. So Venefica Senex now has a clear path through to the lead, and Dumnorix is giving his all as he hurtles up the straight.

Snowflake and Niger are out of the turn, and Salami is close on their tails, with Neptune's Wrath in final place.

And Maximus Oblivius is dropping out – yes, his rider is pulling him off the track and out of the race. That is a sad finish for Maximus and for Paulinus his owner, but the tactics chosen for today were not suited to the heat or the hard going.

And now there is a new move at the back, where Neptune's Wrath is making a fresh challenge. He's moved up close on Snowflake, and Salami, Snowflake and Neptune's Wrath are now speeding together up this straight. Niger has managed to stay just ahead of them, and the crowd bursts out into applause and wild chants and singing of team songs as they hurtle past the stands. For the first time the Blues are able to cheer their rider on Neptune's Wrath, and the old chant rolls across the stands. "Blue is the colour, racing is the game, we're here together, winning all the fame". Its the famous old song, and they are delighted to be able to sing it.

But at the front its Venefica Senex heading towards the turn, with Philologia continuing to slow, and now being challenged by the pack of Niger, Snowflake, Neptune's Wrath and Salami.

Round they go, and coming out in the lead is Venefica Senex still clear of the slowing Philologia, and Niger, Snowflake, Neptune's Wrath and Salami all ready for a real race now. And Salami is moving through – yes he's pushing ahead, but strongly challenged by Niger, with little Owen lashing out in all directions as he is determined to get past. And now they are passing Philologia, Niger and Salami still fighting it out, Snowflake coming through behind to overtake Philologia. So as they pass the stands its Venefica Senex going better than we have ever seen before, followed by Niger and Salami going neck and neck, with Snowflake and Neptune's Wrath together at the back.

As they tear past the stands its Venefica Senex from Salami and Niger, then Neptune's Wrath and Snowflake. Russata and Albata fans are going mad with delight, pompoms and streamers flying in all directions.

As they come up to the bend its Venefica Senex still in the lead, a very strange expression on Dumnorix's face as he realises that he is actually racing and leading for the first time in his life, Niger and Salami coming up close together to mount a fresh challenge, and Neptune's Wrath now moving ahead of Snowflake. Yes, Snowflake can't keep up this fierce pace in all this heat, she is beginning to tire and drop back to join Philologia at the rear.

So at the turn its now Venefica Senex keeping a clear lead from Niger and Salami, with Snowflake and Neptune's Wrath in fourth and fifth. But Now Neptune's Wrath is making his move, galloping fast on the straight, level with Niger and Salami, now moving to the outside to fight for second place. Yes, he's through, and Veneta are going wild again. "Blue is our colour" comes the old tune again. Niger and Salami wonder what's happened – they're fighting it out for third place all of a sudden. Up they go, and the speed is wild and amazing. Venefica Senex is flying like the wind – is that what witches are meant to do? The hooves of Neptune's Wrath are crashing out a fierce rhythm on the hard track as the dust and sand fly up to coat the entire scene. Snowflake is gamely trying to stay in the race, but that seems unlikely now that they are at the last bend.

Round they come, and Venefica Senex is well clear, just needing to keep up this pace for a comfortable win. Neptune's Wrath is in second place, then a gap, then Niger and Salami fighting it out for third place. And now the crowd on this side go wild as the hooves thunder down past the stands, pompoms and streamers going wild, songs and chants roaring out.

And at the line its Venefica Senex, well clear of Neptune's Wrath, and by a whisker its Salami in third place, from Niger in fourth, Snowflake limping in behind, and Philologia coming in sixth. Maximus Oblivius, Paulinus's horse, did not finish, but will live to race another day.

Well, Ladies and Gentlemen, the excitement for that race was amazing, but for now I will return you to the studio.

Valete omnes!

Crispus




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes,

And my congratulations to Caesar and to Praesina, it was a good race.

The Russata will have to wait for other races to show its valor.

Go RUSSATA!!!!
Crassus

C. Maria Caeca Vestalis L. Cornelio Sullae COS. S. P. D.

The Collegium Pontificum has granted me the title of Virgo Vestalis, but not
Virgo Maxima. While it is true that, at present, I am our only Vestal, I
am, officially, a Virgo Vestalis. I'm not complaining about this; but
neither do I wish to be credited with something I don't possess. BTW, I
have always paid, and will always pay, the yearly tax, especially while we
in our current financial situation. Until we see a major increase in
citizens with Assidui status, I do not think it appropriate to be granting
tax dispensations. This isn't greed, it's simply sound resource management
practice.

Vale bene!
C. Maria Caeca

Salvete omnes!

Here are the final set of answers to the historical quiz questions:

8. Name two ancient sites, both beginning with the letter D, where Apollo was honoured.

All agreed on Delos and Delphi, which were the ones I had in mind. Marcus Prometheus also found Didyma, in Ionia.

9. What sea creature is particularly associated with the god?

All agreed on dolphin, which is correct.

10. In what year (written as a Roman year) were these Ludi first held in Nova Roma?

This question tested the ability of contestants to research the Nova Roma wiki and mailing lists, and also to write the year correctly in Roman numerals. The answers ranged from 2758 AUC (MMDCCLV111) to 2755 AUC (MMDCCLV). I give the winning point to Publius Porcius Licinus here, based on the quality and resourcefulness of his research.

Final scores.

The final scores are:-

P Porcius Licinus 11 points
Marcus Prometheus 10 points
Appia Gratia Avita 9 points
M Pompeius Caninus 9 points
M Martianius Lupus 7 points

My thanks to all the players for their efforts in completing the contest, and my congratulations to them all for the quality of their answers.

Valete omnes!

Crispus

Salvete Omnes!



Albata extends its congratulations to Praescena on their victory. As a side
note, a certain Welshman is going to have a .difficult ..year.



Party in the Albata enclosure .we've got the food and drink, which, when it
comes down to it, is all the excuse we need!



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Cn. Cornelius Lentulus pontifex Quiritibus s. p. d.


This is the Happy End of the ludi Apollinares of the 15th Anniversary Year of the founding of Nova Roma.

Apollo, the God of Healing, God of the Sun, God of Culture and Erudition was celebrated during the ludi Apollonares.

Apolllo! We need You in our Nova Roman life! Heal our wounds, as a community, heal our diseases, heal our illness! We love your Nova Roma, oh God of Culture, Arts, Academy and Education, our Apollo, because your Nova Roma lives in our hearts, and there is no other name, no other Roman republic to which we want to belong. Take care of Nova Roma, Citizens, because everyone has a mission in Nova Roma. Find yours, and do your best in your place. That's how we can honor Apollo the best way.

In the name of Nova Roma and its praetor, I have performed the following closing ceremony and I sacrificed incense and wine to Apollo for healing the sick cives, and healing the wounds of Nova Roma.

Please do a similar ceremony in your homes, Quirites, and pray for the sick citizens, and for Nova Roma!


This is the text of the closing ritual that I have offered to Apollo:




PRAEFATIO - PREFACE TO THE PRAYER


"Iane, Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva, Aesculapi,
hisce ludis Apollinaribus,
hoc anno anniversarii XV Novae Romae,
vos hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sitis volentes propitii
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
collegio pontificum et augurum,
mihi, domo, familiae!"

Ianus, Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva, Aesculapius,
at the time of these Apollonian Games,
in the year of the 15th Anniversary of Nova Roma,
by offering you this incense
I pray good prayers so
that you be benevolent and propitious
to the Quiritian People of Nova Roma,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the college of the pontiffs and the augurs,
to me, to my household and to my family.


(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)


"Apollo,
hisce ludis Apollinaribus,
hoc anno anniversarii XV Novae Romae,te hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sis volens propitius
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
collegio pontificum et augurum,
mihi, domo, familiae!"

Apollo,
at the time of these Apollonian Games,
in the year of the 15th Anniversary of Nova Roma,
by offering you this incense
I pray good prayers so
that you be benevolent and propitious
to the Quiritian People of Nova Roma,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the college of the pontiffs and the augurs,
to me, to my household and to my family.


(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)


"Iane, Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva, Aesculapi,
uti vos ture commovendo
bonas preces precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio estote!"

Ianus, Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva, Aesculapius,
as by offering incense
I have prayed good prayers,
for the very same reason
be thou blessed by this wine.


(Libation of wine is made.)


"Apollo,
uti te ture commovendo
bonas preces precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio esto!"

Apollo,
as by offering incense
I have prayed good prayers,
for the very same reason
be thou blessed by this wine.

(Libation of milk is made.)


PRECATIO - THE PRAYER


"Apollo,
hisce ludis Apollinaribus,
hoc anno anniversarii XV Novae Romae,te precor, quaeso, veneror, obtestor:
uti salutem Rei Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
confirmes, augeas, adiuves,
utique Rem Publicam Populi Novi Romani Quiritium
omnibus morbis et malis liberes;
utique morbos visos invisosque averrunces,
omnes aegros Novos Romanos
sanes, cures, medearis
ex omni aegritudene!”

Apollo,
at the time of these Apollonian Games,
in the year of the 15th Anniversary of Nova Roma,
we ask and beseech you, we beg and pray you so
that you may confirm, strengthen and increase
the well being of the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
so that you heal the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites
from all illness and wrongdoing;
so that you may keep away all illnesses visible and invisible;
so that you may heal, cure and recuperate
all sick Nova Romans
from all kinds of diseases.


SACRIFICIUM - THE SACRIFICE


"Harum rerum ergo macte
hoc vino libando,
hoc ture ommovendo
esto fito volens propitius
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
praetori et collegio pontificum et augurum,
mihi, domo, familiae!"

For these reasons, thou blessed
by offering this wine,
by offering this incense,
be benevolent and propitious
to the Quiritian People of Nova Roma,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
to the praetor, the college of the pontiffs and the augurs,
to me, to my household and to my family.


(Libation of wine is made, and incense is sacrificed.)


PIACULUM - THE EXPIATION OF MISTAKES DURING THE RITUAL

"Iane, Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva, Aesculapi,
Apollo,
Lares, Manes, Penates,
Omnes Di Immortales quocumque nomine:
si quidquam vobis in hac caerimonia displicuit,
hoc vino libando
veniam peto
et vitium meum expio."

Ianus, Iuppiter, Iuno, Minerva, Aesculapius,
Apollo,
Lares, Manes, Penates,
All Gods Immortal, by whichever name:
if something in this ceremony was unpleasant to you,
by this wine
I do apologize
and expiate my mistake.

(Wine is sacrificed.)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Thank you for the information.

Thanks

Thanks that was informational.

Thanks for the update. That is better.

Caesar Crispo sal.

Excellent race Crispe. My thanks to you. My thanks to all the other owners for participating. 

Letting the Gaul mount and ride the Old Witch was entertaining. I just hope the excitement of the race doesn't mean he will sleep through the rest of the events to come. 

He isn't used to all this .... activity.

Optime vale


________________________________
From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS <jbshr1pwa@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 10:01 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] LUDI APOLLINARES 2766 - HORSERACE - THE RACE



 
Salvete omnes!

Welcome back to our broadcast from the Circus Maximus, where I and my colleague Scipio are about to bring you coverage of the grand race held to mark the Ludi Apollinares.

Its an exciting afternoon here at the Circus, the sun is beating down from a cloudless blue sky, the stands are all packed with spectators, the factiones are out in force all wearing their colourful outfits and waving flags, ribbons and pompoms. And just listen to that singing! There's a huge wall of sound rolling down the stands, as one group after another take up their team song.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes!

This isn't traditional ancient music, but it is sung in Latin, the video is
very nice (from what I can tell), and the music satisfies something in our
modern expectations of what Roman music might have become, based, I admit on
a fairly long and extensive history of Roman themed movies. Listening to
it, I was reminded of every "sand and sandals" movie I've ever seen (and
loved, despite the obvious, um, artistic license). So ...hope you enjoy
this as I did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA4PnGGLkfU

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca

Please check out my new blog at jottingsofanomnivorousreader.blogspot.com!

This list is for everyone who loves to read, but especially those who use
special formats, such as Braille or audio. We enjoy books, talking about
them, and one another. Come join us!
ReadingOurWay-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

Salvete omnes!

And, for the purists among us, here is something far more traditional, and
absolutely lovely!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrwkPY3IMkQ

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca

Salvete!

A modern, but a reconstruction of ancient Roman music ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBHr6_Z6sTU

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca

Ave Caeca,

Thank you for the correction but one could reasonably state that as the
SOLE Vestal that would by default make you the Virgo Maxima? Just as if
there was one Pontiff it would by default make that individual the Pontifex
Maximus?

Respectfully,

Sulla

Ave Sulla Cos.

One could, I suppose, but I do not.

Vale bene!
CMC

Caesar Dextro sal

Just a small correction, Scholastica isn't a Latinist as defined by the Lex Arminia de fovenda lingua latina, which says "The title of Latinist must be reviewed annually by the Senate, and will be valid from the time of approval until the end of the year." That formal title ran out years ago as therefore did her tax exemption. In fact if she hasn't paid tax (I don't know if she has without trawling back through the records) based on that premise she actually would owe a number of years of back tax.

Optime vale




________________________________
From: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 4:01 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina



 
C. Petronius Dexter L. Cornelio Sullae consuli sine collega salutem,

I recognize there your Carthaginian sense of business, but why do you look only on the Latinists and not also on the Virgin Vestals who are too exempt of the annual tax according to the lex Curiatia Iulia de tributo virginum Vestalium?

If as you say no one is exempt from the tax, why do you look only on the Latinists when they are not the only one to be exempted from tax? Because of Scholastica's Latinist status? You are perverted by your hate, the Comitia must not follow you in your hates.

As usual, your proposals of law discredit the fame of the gens Cornelia.

The best you have to do citizens, if you want to be fair about the Latinists and the virgins Vestal status, is to demonstrate that you are great and generous for scopes as the encouragement for the Latin or for some venerable religious positions as virgin Vestal, show your lack of cupidity and your intelligence in seeing behind the excuse of a virtuous "no one is exempt from tax" what Sulla really wants to do. This "no one is exempt from tax" seems virtuous because seeming equal for all, but is actually vicious because of the Sulla's cupidity, which brings him to exempt some individuals judged worthy of this exemption by the leges Arminia and Curiatia Julia, and if you want to be generous and comprehensive and make Nova Roma more attractive you have, my fellow citizens, to vote: NO.

In other hand, if no one may be exempt from tax, I remind you that a consul is not exempt from a colleague. Do not forget to convene the Comitia for the election of a colleague, o consul without colleague.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. III Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

For the record, I would very much enjoy bringing this item to the Senate.
But, I cannot even consider bringing this item to the Senate as long as
Item III an active part of this law. There are a few individuals who
deserve this title. But, CFO of Nova Roma, I cannot in good conscious
recommend it given the impact on the central treasury of Nova Roma.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
gn_iulius_caesar@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

M. Pompeius Caninus civibus plebeianis salutem plurimam dicit:


The contio (discussion period) for the
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Pompeia_de_ratione_comitiorum_plebis_tributorum_(Nova_Roma)
is nearing the end of its appointed time. There are about 22 hours left
for discussion and debate. Voting will begin on July 17th. As a
reminder, here is the schedule for current session of the Comitia Plebis
Tributa:


11:00 AM ROME TIME 10-July-2013 : Call to order. Contio (debate period)
begins.

11:00 PM ROME TIME 14-July-2013 : Contio (debate period) ends.

09:01 AM ROME TIME 17-July-2013 : Call to vote. Voting period begins.

The Cista will be closed on July 19th and July 21st - no citizen shall
vote on those two days.

09:01 AM ROME TIME 22-July-2013 : Voting period ends.

11:59 PM ROME TIME 23-July-2013 : Call to close issued before this time.




Optime valete!


Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!

Salvete omnes!



I encourage citizens to support this Lex, because it regularizes the
procedures of all Comitia, and helps the machinery of our Government to run
more smoothly.



Valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete omnes!

I was wonder what the Plebeian pontifices thought about the provision in
paragraph VI of the proposed lex that requires a Pontifex or Priest to
conduct a ceremonia:

VI. Breaking of Ties
...
B. The presiding magistrate has the duty and responsibility to request a
member of the Collegium Pontificum or an appropriate Priest to conduct a
ceremonia, at the start of a vote, to express the State’s need for a
method of tie resolution that does not utilize chance and request a more
direct form of divine intervention due to the corruption and tampering
of men.

Is a ceremonia necessary? Is it desirable? Is it appropriate? If so,
should the presiding magistrate conduct the ceremonia or should a
Pontifex or other public priest conduct the ceremonia?

Bene valete!


Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!




-------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] 22 hours left for Contio in Comitia Plebis
Tributa
From: "cmc" <c.mariacaeca@... Date: Sat, July 13, 2013 3:12 pm
To: <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Salvete omnes!

I encourage citizens to support this Lex, because it regularizes the
procedures of all Comitia, and helps the machinery of our Government to
run
more smoothly.

Valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Aemilius Crassus omnibus SPD,

Today I'm sending the questions of the great Mythological Quiz prepared by
Aeternia.

Here are the questions to the last day's Mythology Quiz. Answers for this
and previous sets of questions will be accept till 24 hours after the Ludi
have ended.

Submit all answers to the following e-mail address:
Syrenslullaby@... Subject
Header: Mythology Quiz

DO NOT post answers to the list but private only.

Bona Fortuna (Good luck ) to all the participants. Please see the
questions below.

Valete bene,

*Mythology Quiz (Dies/Day3)*
7.Who in Roman Mythology was Apollo's Mother?
8. True or False? Mercury did not create the Lyre for Apollo?
9. Apollo is associated to what serpent?
10. True or False? Apollo Phoebus is another name


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvete Omnes!

I offer this special music to Apollo as a token of our devotion and to honor
him, with music from Greece, and played upon his own instrument. I hope
that the great god Apollo will find this offering of music favorable, and
look with kindness and care on Nova roma and her citizens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elERNFoEf3Y

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca

C. Aemilius Crassus Praetor Novae Romae Quiritibus SPD,

I hope you all have enjoyed the Ludi Apollinares and would like to thank
all citizens that have participated in these Ludi. I also would like to
express my gratitude to Statia Cornelia Valeriana Iuliana Aeternia, C.
Maria Caeca and C. Marcius Crispus for their tireless efforts in staging
these Ludi and also to Pontifex Lentulus for performing the Ludi rituals.

The Ludi Apollinares were first held only 2 years after the disaster of
Cannae and were instituted to expel the Carthaginians from Italy and to
defend the Res Publica from all dangers. Today more than 2000 years we are
celebrating and honoring this contract with Pater Apollo and although not
in such dire dangers we hope also to defend the Res Publica of Nova Roma
from all dangers.

Pater Apollo as Praetor Novae Romae and in name of the Senate and People of
Nova Roma I hope these Ludi have been pleasant to you and ask you to shine
your light and protection on our Res Publica and over all its citizens and
their families.

I declare the Ludi Apollinares of 2766 AVC closed.

Valete optime.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salvvete



I am sure that the Nova Roman treasury can absorb the non payment of taxes from 2 or 5 Latineist IF they actual do something for Nova Roma.



Valete



Ti. Galerius Paulinus









Sent from Windows Mail


From: Robert Woolwine
Sent: ‎July‎ ‎13‎, ‎2013 ‎2‎:‎49‎ ‎PM
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina



Ave,

For the record, I would very much enjoy bringing this item to the Senate.
But, I cannot even consider bringing this item to the Senate as long as
Item III an active part of this law. There are a few individuals who
deserve this title. But, CFO of Nova Roma, I cannot in good conscious
recommend it given the impact on the central treasury of Nova Roma.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 2:39 PM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
gn_iulius_caesar@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

Not at present no. As you saw in the Senate Finance Committee, which is in
session our expenditures still exceed our income. While we are decreasing
the pulling of income from the reserve we are not yet at that point.

So, no, we cannot. Espeically when those 5 members are all in the 1st
class that is $44.00 x 5= $220.00 and to put this in specific terms that is
nearly 25% of NR's current year revenue for this year!

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <
spqr753@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar sal.

Further, they did not get to the First Class as a result of holding the position of Latinist alone. Other offices I think have been held no? 

Given our current financial situation and given they are some of the "leading citizens" of Nova Roma (by general consent in some cases, and in their own minds in other cases), they should pay. Even if they disagree they should consider it a donation to help get us solvent again.

Optime valete


________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, July 13, 2013 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina


Ave,

Not at present no.  As you saw in the Senate Finance Committee, which is in
session our expenditures still exceed our income.  While we are decreasing
the pulling of income from the reserve we are not yet at that point.

So, no, we cannot.  Espeically when those 5 members are all in the 1st
class that is $44.00 x 5= $220.00 and to put this in specific terms that is
nearly 25% of NR's current year revenue for this year!

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Sat, Jul 13, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Timothy or Stephen Gallagher <
spqr753@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When's the next race?

Ave,

I think this Ludi has ended. There is an upcoming Ludi, I believe in
September, under the jurisdiction of the Curule Aedile. They will likely
have other events and happenings going on during that Ludi.

Respectfully,

Sulla

C. Petronius M. Pompeio Canino salutem,

I am astonished about a such point of law. Why is the agreement of the gods needed about breaking ties in which the presiding magistrate denies their intervention.

The 3 ways you chose to make a breaking tie brings to a result without intervention of the gods. Period.

I think that in proposing those ways of tie breaking, you may think to offend the gods who in the previous laws broke tie with the dice threw by the innocent hand of the presiding magistrate. But if you believe that the gods are jealous, vengeful or cruel and for that belief you ask their agreement so that they do not care the elections with a ceremony is odd and useless.

If I understand a ceremony for asking the gods agreement on a process, in other hand asking a ceremony to make the gods out is not necessary.

A ceremony is to make them peaceful and if you need their help, not if you want that they do not intercede.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

C. Petronius L. Cornelio Sullae consuli sine collega salutem,

Lol.
You show to everybody that you have the Carthaginian sense of the business. You are not a Roman. I like this reason: if the Latinists are in the first class Nova Roma cannot be great neither generous as it were last years when the previous laws were in force.
Nova Roma was it in deficit those last years? No.
Your cupidity is your problem.

Citizens vote: NO.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

C. Petronius Dexter L. Cornelio Sullae consuli sine collega salutem,

Effectively, if a vestal is sole vestal she is by default the virgo maxima. That is patently obvious.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

C. Petronius Dexter Cn. Iulio Caesari salutem,

Just a small correction, do you say?
The law Arminia de fovenda lingua latina speak about a Senate "yearly review". Why this review was not did the last year neither this year?
Had you repealed this law before the Comitia when you were consul and this year when Cornelius is?

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

C. Petronius Dexter C. Mariae Caecae virgini Vestali salutem,

If you are the one virgo Vestalis, you obviously are the virgo maxima. Virgo maxima is not a title, is the rank of priority given by the seniority between all the vestals. As you are the one vestal you are obviously the virgo maxima. Who else may be?

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

M. Pompeius Caninus C. Petronio SPD


That is what I thought when I re-read that paragraph today. I do not
believe the gods need to be placated and a ceremony should not be needed
for tie breakers based on citizenship record data. That paragraph will
be removed from the lex. Gratias tibi ago.


Fac valeas!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!





-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Pontifices and the Plebeian elections
From: "petronius_dexter" <jfarnoud94@... Date: Sat, July 13, 2013 9:57 pm
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

C. Petronius M. Pompeio Canino salutem,

I am astonished about a such point of law. Why is the agreement of the
gods needed about breaking ties in which the presiding magistrate denies
their intervention.

The 3 ways you chose to make a breaking tie brings to a result without
intervention of the gods. Period.

I think that in proposing those ways of tie breaking, you may think to
offend the gods who in the previous laws broke tie with the dice threw
by the innocent hand of the presiding magistrate. But if you believe
that the gods are jealous, vengeful or cruel and for that belief you ask
their agreement so that they do not care the elections with a ceremony
is odd and useless.

If I understand a ceremony for asking the gods agreement on a process,
in other hand asking a ceremony to make the gods out is not necessary.

A ceremony is to make them peaceful and if you need their help, not if
you want that they do not intercede.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

--- In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com, "M. Pompeius Caninus" <caninus@... wrote:
in
to
request a
conduct a
for a
more
tampering
to

Cn. Iulius Caesar censor sal.

Citizens, Nova Roma has gone through a lot of turmoil in the last few years. Much of the turmoil has its roots in imprecise laws, constitutional uncertainties, and more recently in 2010 the attempted coup which had as its stated reason spending $10,000 USD on a new censorial database system, electoral tools etc. Money has and always will be an issue, clearly since a serious effort was made to loot the treasury so that $10,000 USD could be handed over to a close associate/friend of the then consul leading the coup. 

Nova Roma has a budget, like any non-profit, like any association, like any nation, like any household. Nova Roma has expenses, like any non-profit, like any association, like any nation, like any household. Nova Roma has only ONE source of income, the tax. Associations would call it membership dues. Even that isn't mandatory, unlike many associations and non-profits, our citizens/members can still participate albeit they cannot stand for office without paying the tax. There is a choice citizens can all make - pay or not pay, but they can still participate. That is a pretty flexible and reasonable deal. 

Nova Roma has no line of credit available to it. It cannot borrow money because it has no tangible assets that a lender could secure against and seize were Nova Roma to default. The money it has saved is ALL it has.

Currently our expenses exceed our income, so our savings deplete yearly. Unless this is corrected ultimately Nova Roma would go bankrupt and be unable to pay for its web hosting, legal fees, accounting software etc. That is just the yearly expenses of existing. We need to do more than exist. We should be investing in real projects (not harebrained schemes built on sand), advertising and much more. To do that we need to save. to save we need to balance the budget.

Therefore at a time when the budget is not balanced we need to trim our expenses as much as possible. Sulla, who is also the Chief Financial Officer of Nova Roma, is constantly looking for ways to cut those costs. There is simply no way to justify giving tax exemptions for a service that should be voluntary. It is one thing to refund taxes legitimately or redress issues, but giving tax break for being a Latinist is not one of those justified reasons.

Let us face it, the (unofficial) Latinists aren't tied to a desk for 8 hours a day, in some Nova Roman sweat shop, translating feverishly. We currently have no official latinists. Now if the price they want for translating officially is a tax exemption that is a pretty high price when you look at our income and how much difference their taxes could make. 

So Dexter tries to insult the consul by saying he has a Carthaginian sense of business? Well I am glad we have someone at the helm of our business that does have that sense of finances. I also hope that reference to Carthaginians, a Semitic people, isn't a reference to Sulla's ethnic roots as a Jew, because that would be pretty despicable were it the case. We certainly do NOT need antisemitism here. I hope that reference to Sulla is therefore meant as a "classical insult". Assuming the best (who knows) that it is, then I say it is a good thing that he has this sense. Many Roman plutocrats had it. So what? 

Is it better to have Sulla with his "Carthaginian sense of business" guiding us to a balanced budget, or someone that doesn't see the value of preserving our Treasury, and instead lets costs rise and ultimately would see us ruined by this idiotic approach to finances. You try to balance your household budget, so must Nova Roma. It is very very simple, and very sad Dexter plays politics over such a serious issue as a balanced budget. Dexter's problem is he would argue it was night if I or Sulla said it was day, and even if we opened the blinds and showed him the bright sun, he would put his head in a bag and claim he couldn't see the sun so it must be night. Dexter is the one driven by negative motivations, not Sulla. 

Please support the consul and the ongoing efforts to correct the mistakes of the past and secure our future. Please vote yes to all the items the consul has put to the vote.

Optime valete


________________________________
From: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:09 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina



 
C. Petronius L. Cornelio Sullae consuli sine collega salutem,

Lol.
You show to everybody that you have the Carthaginian sense of the business. You are not a Roman. I like this reason: if the Latinists are in the first class Nova Roma cannot be great neither generous as it were last years when the previous laws were in force.
Nova Roma was it in deficit those last years? No.
Your cupidity is your problem.

Citizens vote: NO.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

Caesar Dexter sal.

Because no one applied to have their status reviewed. It in fact had lapsed years before, so there was no incumbent to review. 

Pretty simple really.

Optime vale


________________________________
From: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:37 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina



 
C. Petronius Dexter Cn. Iulio Caesari salutem,

Just a small correction, do you say?
The law Arminia de fovenda lingua latina speak about a Senate "yearly review". Why this review was not did the last year neither this year?
Had you repealed this law before the Comitia when you were consul and this year when Cornelius is?

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

C. Petronius Dexter L. Cornelio Sullae consuli sine collega salutem,

I re-read the lex Cornelia de quaestoribus, but the word "consul" is already not replaced by "consuls" or "one of the consuls"...

This correcting is apparently so minor than you forgot to make it.:o)

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

Caesar Dextro sal.

Apparently Virgo Vestalis Maxima was an office, by virtue of a decretum issued by your own Collegium Pontificum.

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Collegium_pontificum_decreta_Februariae_MMDCCLXI


This shows as passed. "Item passed with four Pontifices in favor of amended Decretum."

"3 Those member of the whole Collegium who hold any one or more of the offices of the Rex Sacrorum, Regina Sacrorum, the Flamines Maiores, Pontifex Maximus, Virgo Vestalis Maxima, Pontifices, and Flamines Minores may vote on a decretum (pl. decreta)."

If this decretum is still in force (it appears so) then the Virgo Vestalis Maxima is an office to which one assumes like the others someone has to be appointed to. I think Caeca's point was that the Collegium has not officially appointed her as such to that office. Therefore if the decretum is valid and in force, then she is correct, she isn't the Virgo Vestalis Maxima and you I suppose would be incorrect that it isn't a title, since it appears to be the title of an office.

Maybe not so obvious? Who knows? Apparently not you.... Who are you again? Ah yes pontifex maximus, in which case why am I doing your job for you and looking this up? Just curious..... This is basic stuff (isn't it?).

Maybe if you spent less time engaged in silly negative critical comments about finances and other leges and kept track of what your own Collegium has passed something might actually get done in there. You know Dexter when you are so critical of others, you really need to make sure your own house is in order. People in glass houses should not throw stones - know that English saying? Shouldn't you know this stuff inside and out? 

This is indicative of why things slip through the cracks in the CP, such as citizens wanting to apply for priesthoods and waiting and waiting, and you not fixing it with a simple suggestion and forcing the Senate to step in. Yes I know you will likely overturn that Senatus consultum - just to prove how independent you are, that would be independently ineffective. I suppose if you don't know your own decreta inside and out, and who should and should not be in the Collegium pontificum and what roles they hold, then it is no wonder the CP presents itself as disordered. 

Maybe you need to take a holiday from investigating Sulla's Carthaginian heritage, from your explosively funny (sarcasm alert) Gallic wit and other diversions you wander into, and instead do some research into your own primary role in Nova Roma, or is that too novel a concept - too much like a game where you need to learn rules - your own Collegium's rules?

Time to wake up and give your head a shake Dexter.

Optime vale



________________________________
From: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:51 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina



 
C. Petronius Dexter C. Mariae Caecae virgini Vestali salutem,

If you are the one virgo Vestalis, you obviously are the virgo maxima. Virgo maxima is not a title, is the rank of priority given by the seniority between all the vestals. As you are the one vestal you are obviously the virgo maxima. Who else may be?

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

Ave

Thanks for agreeing with me!

Vale

Sulla

Sent from my Kindle Fire



_____________________________________________
From: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@... Sent: Sat Jul 13 23:30:15 MST 2013
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina




C. Petronius Dexter L. Cornelio Sullae consuli sine collega salutem,

Effectively, if a vestal is sole vestal she is by default the virgo maxima. That is patently obvious.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

C. Maria Caeca C. Petronio Dextro Pontifici Maximo L. Cornelio Sullae
Consuli, GN. Iulio Caesari Censori, Omnibusque in foro Salutem Plurimam
dicit:



At the time of my appointment by the Collegium Pontificum as Virgo Vestalis,
there was a discussion as to whether I should also be appointed as Virgo
Maxima. The decision was that I should not be so appointed. Since I serve
at the pleasure of the Collegium Pontificum, and since the Collegium
prescribes the manner of my service, to use a title which they have not
given me, or to assume that I fill a position to which they have not
appointed me, would, whatever the practical parameters of my service may be,
be an act of defiance against those at whose pleasure I serve. I would
consider such an action dishonorable.



Valete!

C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave

Then maybe the cp should actually publish a decree to settle this issue? Oh but that would require some activity and heaven forbid Dexter do something akin to real work!

Vale

Sulla

Sent from my Kindle Fire



_____________________________________________
From: cmc <c.mariacaeca@... Sent: Sun Jul 14 07:49:18 MST 2013
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina




C. Maria Caeca C. Petronio Dextro Pontifici Maximo L. Cornelio Sullae
Consuli, GN. Iulio Caesari Censori, Omnibusque in foro Salutem Plurimam
dicit:

At the time of my appointment by the Collegium Pontificum as Virgo Vestalis,
there was a discussion as to whether I should also be appointed as Virgo
Maxima. The decision was that I should not be so appointed. Since I serve
at the pleasure of the Collegium Pontificum, and since the Collegium
prescribes the manner of my service, to use a title which they have not
given me, or to assume that I fill a position to which they have not
appointed me, would, whatever the practical parameters of my service may be,
be an act of defiance against those at whose pleasure I serve. I would
consider such an action dishonorable.

Valete!

C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caeca Sullae Cos Sal!



At this point, I don't see that a change of title is particularly
beneficial. Should other Vestals apply and be accepted, the situation would
change, because I would be responsible for training and supervising them.
At that point, no doubt, the Collegium will re-evaluate my official status.




Vale!

C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Cn. Caesari salutem,

I recognize there that you understand what you want to understand, as usual.
This decretum is about who may vote and Maria Caeca votes in the CP on a decretum. She is the virgo maxima. Nobody else may be virgo maxima.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

Cn. Iulius Caesar C. Mariae Caecae sal

Thank you for the clarification. I am still hazy as to whether this was a discussion, or a discussion with a vote. Either way however it is clear you were not appointed as Virgo Vestalis Maxima. So, from the decretum I posted  ( http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Collegium_pontificum_decreta_Februariae_MMDCCLXI%c2%a0) we know that the Virgo Vestalis Maxima is an office, that Virgo Vestalis Maxima is the title of the office, and that only she out of all the Vestals can participate in a vote on a decretum. 

So as an extra caution Caeca, until the Collegium Pontificum gets its act in order and sorts this out (adding it to the existing long list of things internally it needs to sort out) and holds an actual vote on the position, then you appear not to have the right to vote in the Collegium Pontificum under the terms of the decretum quoted. This needs to be sorted out if there was no other decretum passed that specifically gave you the vote. 

Even though not in the Collegium Pontificum, of course I would be delighted to see you Caeca put your name forward for the office and to be elected as Virgo Vestalis Maxima, but first someone needs to call the Collegium to vote on the matter. There is an urgency to this though since there is a significant (if not huge) question mark over your right to participate in a vote on a decretum. If for instance a decretum passed in the future by one vote and you had voted in favour of it, then in reality it would have failed since it seems you don't have the right to vote.

Why I think it needs to be fixed ASAP is we don't need decreta passed which can later be challenged as to their legal validity. Years later maybe. 

Optime vale


________________________________
From: cmc <c.mariacaeca@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 8:49 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina



 
C. Maria Caeca C. Petronio Dextro Pontifici Maximo L. Cornelio Sullae
Consuli, GN. Iulio Caesari Censori, Omnibusque in foro Salutem Plurimam
dicit:

At the time of my appointment by the Collegium Pontificum as Virgo Vestalis,
there was a discussion as to whether I should also be appointed as Virgo
Maxima. The decision was that I should not be so appointed. Since I serve
at the pleasure of the Collegium Pontificum, and since the Collegium
prescribes the manner of my service, to use a title which they have not
given me, or to assume that I fill a position to which they have not
appointed me, would, whatever the practical parameters of my service may be,
be an act of defiance against those at whose pleasure I serve. I would
consider such an action dishonorable.

Valete!

C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Ave,

What about the votes in the past in the CP that Caeca participated in? Are
they valid?

Tribunes? Can you offer your opinions?

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
gn_iulius_caesar@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Cn. Caesari salutem,

As usual you read the law as you want.

No one applied to have their status reviewed... the law does not says that the latinists have to apply their status being reviewed. It is the duty of the senate. The latinists apply once through the consuls and the senate reviews the title annually...

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

Cn. Caesar C. Petronio sal.

Ah, you have adopted your standard response when wrong, namely you have found a bag and stuck your head in it and are pretending not to see the decretum. Typical response.

It won't work Dexter, the decretum ( http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Collegium_pontificum_decreta_Februariae_MMDCCLXI%c2%a0) specifically creates the office. All the other positions are voted on. In fact the CP actually declined, according to Caeca, to appoint her as Virgo Maxima.

So to be clear you are going to allow her to vote in the Collegium pontificum despite the decretum, which sets out who can vote on decreta, and despite the fact that she was specifically not appointed after a discussion on whether she should be Virgo Maxima? You are going to keep insisting she despite no vote, despite a discussion where it was decided not to appoint her? In other words you are breaking the CP's own rules?

I hope you feel happy inside that bag. You will keep bumping into things wearing it.

Optime vale


________________________________
From: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 10:38 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The position of Virgo Vestalis Maxima



 
C. Petronius Cn. Caesari salutem,

I recognize there that you understand what you want to understand, as usual.
This decretum is about who may vote and Maria Caeca votes in the CP on a decretum. She is the virgo maxima. Nobody else may be virgo maxima.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

Ave Dexter,

Did you even READ the law?

2. The application of the citizen shall be sent to the Senate through the
consules. The Senate will vote on the proposal and a simple majority shall
be sufficient to approve the title.

http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_fovenda_lingua_latina_(Nova_Roma)

Please read the law before you answer.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Cn Caesar C. Petonio sal.

As usual you have a bag on your head and are pretending not to see reality.

The lex states that the position is only good for a year. After that if no review takes place they are NOT latinists. It does not place an obligation on the Senate to fill it. If persons want the job they apply, get voted on and then if successful become a Latinist. At the end of their first year they should be reviewed. That did not happen, years ago. The office therefore fell vacant. You can't review an empty spot Dexter. 

The Senate is not required to spoon feed people. If no one bothers to apply then the office is vacant. There is a responsibility on those that aspire to be a Latinist to apply to the Senate for the position. 

Optime vale


________________________________
From: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 10:54 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina



 
C. Petronius Cn. Caesari salutem,

As usual you read the law as you want.

No one applied to have their status reviewed... the law does not says that the latinists have to apply their status being reviewed. It is the duty of the senate. The latinists apply once through the consuls and the senate reviews the title annually...

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

C. Petronius L. Cornelio Sullae consuli sine collega salutem,

I read it, English is not my language, nevertheless apparently I understand it better than you.

If you read more than the first line you read:
4. The title of Latinist must be reviewed annually by the Senate, and will be valid from the time of approval until the end of the year. The tax release, however, will be valid only for the following year, even though it is renewed.

You want to repeal a law that you never read but only moved by your cupidity...

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

Ave,

Logic, Dexter Logic.....How can you have #4 before #2?

Vale,

Sulla

C. Petronius Cn. Caesari salutem,

Only good for a year and annually reviewed by the senate.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

Ave

If there is no application, per section 2, there is NOTHING to review, as
Caesar pointed out.

Vale,

Sulla

Caesar Dextro sal.

You can't read very well with a bag on your head, I appreciate that, so let me quote your own quote:

"and will be valid from the time of approval until the end of the year."

At the end of a year the Senate shoudl review. Even if the Senate the first year after appointment should have reviewed it, it didn't. Therefore the title falls vacant. It lasts only for one year. Period.

Optime vale


________________________________
From: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 11:03 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina



 
C. Petronius L. Cornelio Sullae consuli sine collega salutem,

I read it, English is not my language, nevertheless apparently I understand it better than you.

If you read more than the first line you read:
4. The title of Latinist must be reviewed annually by the Senate, and will be valid from the time of approval until the end of the year. The tax release, however, will be valid only for the following year, even though it is renewed.

You want to repeal a law that you never read but only moved by your cupidity...

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

Caesar Dextro sal.

Yes and after a year the Latinist would have to apply for a review, you know Dexter indicating they want to continue... When they do that the Senate reviews it. That didn't happen years ago - in fact it happened under the faction you used to support before you quit their camp. 

When the office fell vacant, there is no one in it to review. By the time I became consul it was long empty and no one applied. Therefore there was no one for me to review.

Take the bag off and read and think, and stop defending your own ego. Think logically (for a change).

Optime vale 


________________________________
From: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 11:06 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina



 
C. Petronius Cn. Caesari salutem,

Only good for a year and annually reviewed by the senate.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

M. Pompeius Caninus Tribunus Plebis L. Cornelio Sullae Felici Consuli
sal.


Since there is, at this point, no instrument we are aware of that
decrees either that C. Maria Caeca is the Virgo Vestalis Maxima or that
she is otherwise entitled to vote on matters before the Collegium
Pontificum, any previous votes she has cast are in doubt and may be
successfully challenged. A decretum is required from the Collegium
Pontificum stating C. Maria Caeca is entitled to vote - or that she is,
indeed, Virgo Vestalis Maxima - and that all previous votes cast by her
in previous sessions of the Collegium Pontificum are considered valid,
including any votes cast on decreta, as she was fully entitled to vote
at the time those previous votes were cast. Without this action, Caeca's
votes are almost certainly invalid.


On a separate note, based on previous discussions about applications for
, I found these items very interesting:


DECRETUM II: QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVMQVE SIT POPVLO ROMANO
QUIRITIBVS.


The Collegium Pontificum having met in order to consider his
application, hereby appoints Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus a sacerdos
Concordiae
Item passed with four Pontifices in favor




DECRETUM III: QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVMQVE SIT POPVLO ROMANO
QUIRITIBVS.


The Collegium Pontificum having met in order to consider his
application, hereby appoints Marcus Moravius Piscinus an Augur.
Item passed with three Pontifices in favor




DECRETUM IV: QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVMQVE SIT POPVLO ROMANO
QUIRITIBVS.


The Collegium Pontificum having met in order to consider his
application, hereby appoints of Titus Iulius Sabinus a sacerdos
Mercurialis
Item passed with four Pontifices in favor.




Fac valeas!


Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!





-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex
Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... Date: Sun, July 14, 2013 8:52 am
To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Ave,

What about the votes in the past in the CP that Caeca participated in?
Are
they valid?

Tribunes? Can you offer your opinions?

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
gn_iulius_caesar@...
was a
clear you
posted
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Collegium_pontificum_decreta_Februariae_MMDCCLXI
) we
Vestals
act
things
position,
Pontificum
if
vote.
to be
since
passed in
reality
Plurimam
Virgo
serve
not
may
would
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

Salvete omnes!



I would need to search the archives of the CP list to trace the results of
the discussion concerning me, (difficult for me, at best). However, I
*think* that the CP voted to appoint me as Virgo Vestalis. I am trying to
remember the conditions under which I was informed that I could vote in the
CP, and, to be honest, I can't. It is possible that the then CP (Sabinus)
informed me, and I simply accepted this as an administrative decision based
on the fact that I was the only Vestal in NR, and the CP wanted the
Collegium Vestalis to be represented in voting. In addition, and while this
may sound irrelevant, it isn't to me, the P.M. is and has, since ancient
Rome, been considered to be the Pater Familias of the Vestals. I am,
therefore under the manus of the Pontifex Maximus, and I am bound both by
the fact that I serve at the pleasure of the CP *and*, if only morally, by
my relationship to my Pater Familias. I will, of course, abide by any
decision the CP makes, and I will serve in whatever capacity they deem best,
to the best of my ability.



Valete!

CMC



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius Cn. Caesari salutem,

As the vestals normally are a college of 6, the first by seniority is called Maxima. When the college is reduced to 1, the vestal is automatically the Maxima Virgo, nobody else may be.
Is is difficult to understand that?

As our consul without colleague... is he less consul because he is sole consul? His votes are they not valid?

In the CP, on all the 6 vestals only the Virgo Maxima votes according to the decretum. But as the college is reduced to 1, not only the sole vestal is the Maxima Virgo but also she can vote.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

Salve Dexter,

I think what they are asking or trying to find out was there ever a
Official Decretum issued proclaiming this?

Or was this just simple assumption so therefore?

Vale bene,
Aeternia

Cn. Caesar censor M. Pompeio Canino tribuno plebis sal.

Thank you Tribune. We need to be clear though.

The pontifex maximus asserts Caeca is Virgo Maxima Vestalis. She says she isn't. He thinks she is by virtue of being the only vestal. If she is a vestal only she may have a vote. I just discovered a decretum which says it is active and which was passed after the earlier one I found.

Please review this: http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Decretum_pontificum_de_membris_collegiorum_(Nova_Roma)

So which ever hat Caeca actually wears, and I agree with her it isn't the Virgo Vestalis Maxima, the votes maybe safe. I say maybe because the CP's records are such a mess. However she still needs to be voted in as Virgo Vestalis Maxima it seems. If the pontifex maximus treats her as such, for the purposes of seeking advice, input etc. then this is unwise, and certainly against the spirit of both decreta. 

My question to you Tribune after reviewing both decreta, is it your considered opinion that the title of Virgo Maxima Vestalis is one that someone has to be appointed to, by vote or by assignement, through a specific process for such? Further do you consider that being the only vestal equates to being the Virgo Vestalis Maxima by default?

We wouldn't have to be going through this if Dexter would concentrate on his own job and sort out the mess that the CP is in, but it is clear he won't. 

Optime vale


________________________________
From: M. Pompeius Caninus <caninus@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 11:12 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina



 
M. Pompeius Caninus Tribunus Plebis L. Cornelio Sullae Felici Consuli
sal.

Since there is, at this point, no instrument we are aware of that
decrees either that C. Maria Caeca is the Virgo Vestalis Maxima or that
she is otherwise entitled to vote on matters before the Collegium
Pontificum, any previous votes she has cast are in doubt and may be
successfully challenged. A decretum is required from the Collegium
Pontificum stating C. Maria Caeca is entitled to vote - or that she is,
indeed, Virgo Vestalis Maxima - and that all previous votes cast by her
in previous sessions of the Collegium Pontificum are considered valid,
including any votes cast on decreta, as she was fully entitled to vote
at the time those previous votes were cast. Without this action, Caeca's
votes are almost certainly invalid.

On a separate note, based on previous discussions about applications for
, I found these items very interesting:

DECRETUM II: QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVMQVE SIT POPVLO ROMANO
QUIRITIBVS.

The Collegium Pontificum having met in order to consider his
application, hereby appoints Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus a sacerdos
Concordiae
Item passed with four Pontifices in favor

DECRETUM III: QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVMQVE SIT POPVLO ROMANO
QUIRITIBVS.

The Collegium Pontificum having met in order to consider his
application, hereby appoints Marcus Moravius Piscinus an Augur.
Item passed with three Pontifices in favor

DECRETUM IV: QVOD BONVM FAVSTVM FELIX FORTVNATVMQVE SIT POPVLO ROMANO
QUIRITIBVS.

The Collegium Pontificum having met in order to consider his
application, hereby appoints of Titus Iulius Sabinus a sacerdos
Mercurialis
Item passed with four Pontifices in favor.

Fac valeas!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex
Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... Date: Sun, July 14, 2013 8:52 am
To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Ave,

What about the votes in the past in the CP that Caeca participated in?
Are
they valid?

Tribunes? Can you offer your opinions?

Respectfully,

Sulla

On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 9:45 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
gn_iulius_caesar@...
was a
clear you
posted
http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Collegium_pontificum_decreta_Februariae_MMDCCLXI
) we
Vestals
act
things
position,
Pontificum
if
vote.
to be
since
passed in
reality
Plurimam
Virgo
serve
not
may
would
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius L. Cornelio Sullae consuli sine collega salutem

But there were applications. I remember a decretum giving the title of latinist to Scholastica. I was too. She was not the one concerned by this decree. But I presume, because at this time I was not senator, that this decree was voted by the senate.
The senate did not review her title nor the others the year after, neither the years following...
Apparently the consuls of 2764 and 2765 did not care the Latin language, at least did not search to favorise it, but worst the sole consul of 2766 thought about this law completely neglected and by cupidity wants to strike out the section III of the law...

People vote: NO.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

Caesar Dextro sal.

Stop playing politics for a moment and leave Sulla and the consulship out of this, just a moment, and think this through logically and review the latest decretum I found.

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Decretum_pontificum_de_membris_collegiorum_(Nova_Roma)


This delineates the Collegium pontificum. The office of Virgo Vestalis Maxima is spearate from the 5 other vestals. I don't see any provision that says that if there is only one vestal she must be the Virgo Vestalis Maxima.

The CP debated whether to appoint Caeca it seems, before you were pontifex maximus I think, and declined to do so. So she votes as a vestal, not as VVM. Since the whole issue of her APPOINTMENT to the role of VVM was debated, and it was decided not to, then she cannot, logically, be the VVM as a result of of your own collegium's discussion/debate.

The position of vestal and of VVM are two separate ones. You have to appoint her to VVM formally, not assume or state she is by default. The CP decided against appointment. 

Optime vale. 


________________________________
From: petronius_dexter <jfarnoud94@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 11:19 AM
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: The position of Virgo Vestalis Maxima



 
C. Petronius Cn. Caesari salutem,

As the vestals normally are a college of 6, the first by seniority is called Maxima. When the college is reduced to 1, the vestal is automatically the Maxima Virgo, nobody else may be.
Is is difficult to understand that?

As our consul without colleague... is he less consul because he is sole consul? His votes are they not valid?

In the CP, on all the 6 vestals only the Virgo Maxima votes according to the decretum. But as the college is reduced to 1, not only the sole vestal is the Maxima Virgo but also she can vote.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

Ave,

There applications? Really where?

I have not seen any applications for all of this year.

Caesar, when you and Val were consuls last year - did you receive any
applications?

Vale,

Sulla

C. Maria Caeca C. Petronio Dextro Pontifici Maximo S. P. D.



What you say makes perfect sense, Pater, except that the CP *specifically*,
at the time of my appointment discussed and decided *not* to give me the
appointment of the office of Virgo Maxima. I was, however, by virtue of
being the only Vestal, allowed to vote in the CP, despite the terms of my
appointment.



Vale et valete!

C. Maria Caeca



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Salve amice

Zero

Vale bene
Caesar


________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina


Ave,

There applications?  Really where?

I have not seen any applications for all of this year.

Caesar, when you and Val were consuls last year - did you receive any
applications?

Vale,

Sulla

Ave amice,

Thanks,

Venii when you and Cato were consuls - did you get any applications?

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Sun, Jul 14, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <
gn_iulius_caesar@...
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Caesar Sullae sal

Amice, I checked. The last time a Latinist was appointed I think was 2005-05-28. That was Scholastica. The term of her office is recorded as expiring on 2008-01-31. If that was by Senatus consultum then it is dubious whether it was legal since the lex (higher than a senatus consultum) specifically states the appointment can only be for a year.

At best therefore the last time there was a Latinist was 31st January 2008. At worst either 27th May 2006, or 31st December 2005 (depending on whether it a calendar year or actual year).

The office was vacant for years, and years, and years.....

Optime vale


________________________________
From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar <gn_iulius_caesar@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina



 
Salve amice

Zero

Vale bene
Caesar

________________________________
From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... To: "Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com" <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 11:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: Revision - Strike out Section III - Lex Arminia de Fovenda Lingua Latina


Ave,

There applications?  Really where?

I have not seen any applications for all of this year.

Caesar, when you and Val were consuls last year - did you receive any
applications?

Vale,

Sulla

Salve Caesar,


When you click on the link you have provided nothing is there...

........

Or is that the whole point intended?

Vale bene,
Aeternia

Salve amica

It is the feature of Yahoo that it always cuts off the bracketed (Nova Roma) from the hyperlink. Highlight and copy the whole link into your the address bar of your browser.

Vale bene
Caesar 


________________________________
From: Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@... To: nova-roma <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 12:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Re: The position of Virgo Vestalis Maxima


Salve Caesar,


When you click on the link you have provided nothing is there...

........

Or is that the whole point intended?

Vale bene,
Aeternia

Take the necessary steps to fix the CP? Since, it is damn clear that the
Pontifex Maximus thinks everything is peachy. And, it is proven again,
clearly that it is not.

So, will ANY Pontiff now step up to the plate and accept responsibility to
fix the CP?

Respectfully,

Sulla


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

C. Petronius L. Cornelio Sullae consuli sine collega salutem,

What is your problem?

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
pridie Idus Quintiles MMDCCLXVI

Ave,

Your ineffectual leadership in the CP, that is my problem. Dexter.

Vale,

Sulla

Caesar Caecae sal

I think this was the vote where it was decided not to appoint you as Virgo Vestalis Maxima? 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReligioRomana/message/13824


Initially item II:
2. The CP will analyze and if concluded, appoint C. Maria Caeca as Virgo
Vestalis Maxima.

Modified item II (announced with 24 hrs in advance of the vote session):
2. The CP will analyze and if concluded, appoint C. Maria Caeca as Vestal
Virgin.

This item modification follows the Collegium Pontificum members' advice as C.
Maria Caeca to take first the Vestal Virgin job steps.

TIS: Uti rogas. Based of the common sense she shows until now, she will be a
fine Vestal Virgin and an important candidate for the position of Virgo Vestalis
Maxima.

QFM: Uti rogas. I believe she will be a fine Vestal however; until we have more
then one, there should be no candidates for the position of Virgo Vestalis
Maxima.

---------------------

So it was changed from appointing you as VVM to vestal, but here it gets more hazy. What does "The CP will analyze and if concluded" mean? It also says "s C. Maria Caeca to take first the Vestal Virgin job steps". So forget about whether you are VVM by default, now the question is what does this decretum say? It says you were taking first steps of the job of vestal. Does that mean you were in training? Does it even mean you were appointed a vestal? First steps seems to indicate that in combination with the analysis and conclusion part of the decretum, they seem to have voted to let you train to be a vestal and review your performance, your probationary period, and at the conclusion appoint you, or vote to appoint you? When and what was the analysis? When was the analysis to be concluded? Is that the vote or a training period? Who knows?

I have no idea what was intended, and all that matters is what was actually voted on. This could be interpreted a number of ways. At this stage it seems unclear, from this vote, if you are even a Vestal, let alone VVM. 

Was there a training program envisaged? In the same session the CP (Friday 24 December 2010 to Wednesday 29 December 2010) discussed a training plan for new candidates for the priesthoods. That went nowhere, they are still discussing how to create one. If they did vote to put you into some sort of training position (who on earth knows) I assume the vestal training plan will be designed after the one for pontifex candidates? If so I'd settle in for a long wait if that is the case.  

Caeca, I think you really need to ask for:

A) A clarification vote on whether you are a Vestal and then
B) A clarification vote on whether you are Virgo Vestalis Maxima

Optime vale

   


________________________________
From: cmc <c.mariacaeca@... To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2013 11:42 AM
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Re: The position of Virgo Vestalis Maxima



 
C. Maria Caeca C. Petronio Dextro Pontifici Maximo S. P. D.

What you say makes perfect sense, Pater, except that the CP *specifically*,
at the time of my appointment discussed and decided *not* to give me the
appointment of the office of Virgo Maxima. I was, however, by virtue of
being the only Vestal, allowed to vote in the CP, despite the terms of my
appointment.

Vale et valete!

C. Maria Caeca

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]