Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Dec 1-17, 2013

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92084 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-01
Subject: Regarding my Edict earlier today
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92085 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-01
Subject: Re: Regarding my Edict earlier today
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92086 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-01
Subject: some personal observations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92087 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-01
Subject: 15th Anniversary - Sacred Year of Concordia - Last Kalends Ritual
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92088 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-01
Subject: Re: some personal observations
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92089 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-02
Subject: This session of the Comitia Plebis Tributa is now closed.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92090 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-02
Subject: Initial Results of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92091 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2013-12-02
Subject: Re: Initial Results of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92092 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-02
Subject: Updated agenda for the current Senate session
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92093 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-02
Subject: Re: Initial Results of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92094 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-02
Subject: Re: Initial Results of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92095 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-02
Subject: Re: Initial Results of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92096 From: jirirys Date: 2013-12-03
Subject: Oath of Office - Aedilis Plebis T. Iulius Nerva
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92097 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Collegium Pontificum Discussion on Dies Nefasti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92098 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Collegium Pontificum Discussion on Dies Nefasti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92099 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Collegium Pontificum Discussion on Dies Nefasti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92100 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Collegium Pontificum Discussion on Dies Nefasti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92101 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Collegium Pontificum Discussion on Dies Nefasti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92102 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Collegium Pontificum Discussion on Dies Nefasti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92103 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Collegium Pontificum Discussion on Dies Nefasti
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92104 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Still trying to track down the second aedilis plebis !
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92105 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Still trying to track down the second aedilis plebis !
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92106 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Still trying to track down the second aedilis plebis !
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92107 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Still trying to track down the second aedilis plebis !
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92108 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Still trying to track down the second aedilis plebis !
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92109 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-05
Subject: Nova Roman Saturnalia in Pannonia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92110 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-05
Subject: FINAL DAY TO VOTE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92111 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-05
Subject: Re: FINAL DAY TO VOTE
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92112 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-05
Subject: Welcome to our new members
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92113 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-06
Subject: Voting is Closed
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92114 From: Tiberius Cassius Date: 2013-12-06
Subject: Re: Welcome to our new members
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92115 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-06
Subject: Re: Welcome to our new members
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92116 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-06
Subject: Results of the Comitia Populi Tributa.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92117 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Test message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92118 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Test message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92119 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Re: Test message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92120 From: Michael Kelly Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Re: Test message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92121 From: Tiberius Cassius Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Re: Welcome to our new members
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92122 From: shoshana hathaway Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Re: Welcome to our new members
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92123 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Re: Welcome to our new members - some Latin tips
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92124 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Re: Welcome to our new members
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92125 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2013-12-08
Subject: Roman Virtues: Humanitas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92126 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-08
Subject: Chariot races for Consualia 2766 auc
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92127 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2013-12-08
Subject: FW: [Explorator] explorator 16.34
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92128 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-09
Subject: Plebeian Oaths of Office Reminder
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92129 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-09
Subject: Re: Plebeian Oaths of Office Reminder
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92130 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-09
Subject: Oath of Office - C. Claudius Quadratus - Tribunus Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92131 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-09
Subject: Oath of Office - L. Ulpius Atellus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92132 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-10
Subject: Re: Roman Virtues: Humanitas
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92133 From: Jiri Rys Date: 2013-12-10
Subject: Oath of Office - Aedilis Plebis T. Iulius Nerva
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92134 From: Quintus Caecilius Metellus Date: 2013-12-10
Subject: Iusiurandum Tribuni Plebis (Oath of Tribune of the Plebs)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92135 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-10
Subject: Thank you
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92136 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-11
Subject: Re: Thank you
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92137 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-11
Subject: Kindle news!!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92138 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-11
Subject: Re: Kindle news!!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92139 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-11
Subject: Re: Kindle news!!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92140 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-11
Subject: Digging History - The First 5 Episodes on Rome
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92141 From: qfabiusmaximus Date: 2013-12-11
Subject: Re: Kindle news!!!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92142 From: shoshana hathaway Date: 2013-12-11
Subject: OT: heads up about Facebook chat issue
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92143 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-12
Subject: Re: Chariot races for Consualia 2766 auc
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92144 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-12
Subject: Updated election results for comitia populi tributa and comitia pleb
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92145 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-12
Subject: Chariot race ...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92146 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-12
Subject: Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92147 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-12
Subject: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92148 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-12
Subject: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92149 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Change of schedule date for the Comitia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92150 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Candidacy to Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92151 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Candidacy to Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92152 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92153 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Chariot race ...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92154 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Chariot race ...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92155 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92156 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92157 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Candidacy to Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92158 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92159 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92160 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92161 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92162 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92163 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: A 2nd NR Saturnalia in Pannonia, Regio Rostallonensis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92164 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92165 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92166 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92167 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92168 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92169 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92170 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92171 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92172 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92173 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92174 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92175 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92176 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: SPEAKING LATIN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92177 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92178 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92179 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92180 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92181 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92182 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92183 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92184 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92185 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92186 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Spelling
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92187 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92188 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92189 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92190 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92191 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92192 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92193 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92194 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92195 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92196 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92197 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92198 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92199 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92200 From: iulius_sabinus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Official call of the Pontifex Maximus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92201 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92202 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Official call of the Pontifex Maximus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92203 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92204 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Candidacy to Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92205 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Official call of the Pontifex Maximus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92206 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Official call of the Pontifex Maximus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92207 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Official call of the Pontifex Maximus.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92208 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92209 From: iulius_sabinus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Questions for consuls candidates.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92210 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92211 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92212 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92213 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: OT message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92214 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: OT message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92215 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: OT message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92216 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Questions for consuls candidates.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92217 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Questions for consuls candidates.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92218 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Consualia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92219 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Modern mule race for those who might be interested
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92220 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92221 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Consualia 2766 mule race finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92222 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92223 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 mule race finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92224 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92225 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 mule race finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92226 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 mule race finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92227 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 mule race finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92228 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 mule race finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92229 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: OT message
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92230 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92231 From: dhcocoa3 Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Support for Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92232 From: cn_corn_lent Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92233 From: cn_corn_lent Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92234 From: cn_corn_lent Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92235 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92236 From: Belle Morte Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92237 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92238 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92239 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Official Results - Consuales Ludi 2766 AUC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92240 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Test Post
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92241 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Test Post
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92242 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92243 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Test Post
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92244 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92245 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92246 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92247 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: SATVRNALIA, 12/17/2013, 12:00 am
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92248 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92249 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92250 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92251 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92252 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92253 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92254 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92255 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92256 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92257 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Roman Virtue: Industria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92258 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92259 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92084 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-01
Subject: Regarding my Edict earlier today
Avete Omnes,

It is clear to me that I need to make a more substantive comment on this matter, the termination of Gn, Cornelius Lentulus from my staff.

I want to make it clear to everyone, that I took that action I did NOT because he opposed my proposed leges, but because he undertook an active behind the scenes campaign to campaign against my proposed legislation.  

He was a member of my staff, if he felt the need to take such action he should have done it the proper way, resign his position and then act as a private citizen.  Instead, his actions created in inherent conflict of interest, which due to his abject failure to resolve, I, as Consul of Nova Roma had to resolve it- and I did so.

There is nothing wrong with a private citizen emailing citizens seeking their vote, voicing their opinion whether on public or private.  There is a clear conflict of interest when an apparitore who works for a magistrate actively works against that same magistrate behind the scenes, essentially skulking around the back alleys lying in wait.

This is why I terminated the service of Gn. Cornelius Lentulus, with prejudice.

With respect,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92085 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-01
Subject: Re: Regarding my Edict earlier today
Cn. Lentulus qu. L. Sullae cos. sal.


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I am not an apparitor, consul, but the elected Quaestor of the Republic of Nova Roma, assigned to the consul. This is a different thing, with different standing (I was not your employee!)

Nevertheless, I am accept your sad decision that you no longer want to rely on my advice as a person in your office.

Vale!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92086 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-01
Subject: some personal observations
Omnibus in Foro S. P. D.

I had started to write this last night, but decided not to save or post it.
However, considering that we have many new citizens, and some citizens
beginning their public life, perhaps my thoughts on a few issues would not
be entirely inappropriate.

When a citizen accepts a position of any kind on the staff of a Magistrate,
there are certain responsibilities and expectations one also accepts. Some
are obvious .to either do, or assist with, the tasks of running the
magistracy. Some of the responsibilities any staff member accepts when
accepting the appointment are not obvious, and they are not written down
anywhere that I've ever seen, but they are just as real as a tangible work
product, and in some ways more important. Appointment by a magistrate to
his/her staff is a trust, and the higher and more crucial the magistracy,
the more this is so. The magistrate must be confident that his/her
assistants, whether they be appointed or elected, will be discrete, and will
not use his/her position to benefit him/herself politically, at least not
while serving in the position. In some cases, assistants have access to
sensitive information that must remain "in house" for any number of reasons.
In some cases, sensitive issues are discussed, strategies developed, and
documents examined, revised, edited and developed for presentation to the
People. For that process to proceed in a constructive way, there must be a
high level of trust between the members of the staff, including the
magistrate, and the magistrate should have the confidence that, even if
staff members disagree with some points of a document or strategy, they do
so because they believe the things they want to change will be in the best
interests of the organization, which, in the long run, will also benefit the
magistrate.

While it is true that all citizens have certain political rights in NR, and
while it is true that, technically, a citizen can make an excellent case for
campaigning, publicly or privately, for his or her opposing positions or
personal and/or political agenda, at any time, regardless of his/her
position in a magisterial cohors, taking such actions is likely, I think, to
cause a conflict of interest. There are things which are technically
permissible, but are ethically, and even morally, problematic.

In what I consider to be the best cohors, magistrates *want* honest
reactions to their proposals, for several reasons. First, the cohors can
act as "devil's advocates" to look for, and sometimes find, those aspects of
the proposal that may cause problems later and deal with them. Next, the
cohors is the first "test filter" and their reactions may well reflect the
larger public reactions to something, and this can be important for
strategic reasons. A good magistrate doesn't need or want slavish
acquiescence from his/her staff. However, there is a time and a place for
everything, and ultimately, once the magistrate has obtained and considered
the advice of his/her staff, the final decision lies with the magistrate,
and once that decision has been made, the debate ends.

I think that, if one is working in a cohors, and a magistrate tasks one with
doing something that the staff member considers unethical or possibly
illegal n NR, that staff member should deny the task and immediately resign.
I think that, if a magistrate chooses to do something so unacceptable to a
staff member that that assistant feels it necessary to strongly protest and
actively oppose the action, the staff member should resign, thus freeing
himself from a possible conflict of interest, and *then* take those actions
he or she believes to be appropriate and/or necessary.

If a staff member finds what may be a serious problem with any of our legal
instruments, and this would include laws or edicta, then those problems
should come to light not during the Contio on a public forum, but in the
cohors, where they can be discussed and/or resolved, if necessary.
Presenting them publicly *first* may be legal, but I question the ethical
nature of such an action.

Does the acceptance of a position in a cohors restrict the behavior of a
staff member? I believe it does, to some extent, because the assistant
should consider the interests of the magistrate with whom he/she is serving
as well as the assistant's rights and prerogatives as a citizen. For me,
these temporary restrictions are an unspecified but understood part of the
responsibility I accept when I accept a position in a magistrate's cohors.

Naturally, these are only my personal opinions and beliefs, so I expect them
to be considered as such, and given the weight that personal beliefs and
opinions have, here.

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92087 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-01
Subject: 15th Anniversary - Sacred Year of Concordia - Last Kalends Ritual
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus pontifex, sacerdos Concordiae: consuli, praetori, tribunis plebis, collegio pontificum, senatui populoque Novo Romano: salutem plurimam dicit:

Salvete, Quirites!

The last Kalends of our 15th Anniversary, the Sacred Year of Concord, has come with today. On these Kalends of December, I have offered the Kalends ritual to Concordia according to my vow for this Sacred Year of Concord and 15th Anniversary of the founding of Nova Roma. At the beginning of the Sacred 15th Anniversary Year, I vowed to honor Concordia on each Kalends for our successful future. 

But the festive events and commemorations don't stop until the last day of the year. On the Saturnalia, I will be conducting a great public ceremony in honor of the 15th Anniversary of Nova Roma, as part of the programs of the Aquincum Museum. There program is here:


The Rome:Total War Championship as part of the Ludi Quindecennales will resume soon to crown the year, listen to the announcements!

I have also prepared a surprise in commemoration of this important milestone of our Res Publica, before the end of the year it will be revealed!

There is still time for you, citizens, to commemorate with prayers, events or by just your thoughts about the importance of our mission, where we are in this 15th year, and where we are going.

Please, magistrates and citizens, join in my prayer, repeat it in your homes and pray for the New Roman nation, for the Nova Romans. Let's strive for the most genuine and authentic reconstruction of Roman customs, society, religion and law: completing the goals of our founders.

People and Magistrates of Nova Roma: Pray to Concordia to create unity and growth, to help us to fulfill our final goal: the Roman resurrection.

This has been the Kalends Ritual to Concordia for our Sacred Year of Concordia, Quindecennalia (15th Anniversary year), performed at my home:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

SACRIFICIVM CONCORDIAE KALENDIS DECEMBRIBUS ANNO XV NOVAE ROMAE CONDITAE

Favete linguis!

(Beginning of the sacrifice.)

1. PRAEFATIO

Dea Concordia, 
hisce Kalendis Decembribus anni quinti decimi Novae Romae conditae
te hoc ture commovendo bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitia Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, nobis quaestoribus,
Collegio Pontificum,
mihi, domo, familiae!

[Goddess Concordia,
on these Kalends of December of the Fifteenth Anniversary Year of the founding of Nova Roma,
by offering you this incense, I pray good prayers so
that you may be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of the Quirites,
to the magistrates, tu us, quaestors,
to the College of Pontiffs,
to me, to my household and to my family.]

(Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.)

Dea Concordia, 
Dea pacis et fortitudinis Senatus Populique Novi Romani Quiritium, 
uti te ture commovendo bonas preces bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo macte lacte inferio esto!"

[Goddess Concordia,
Goddess of peace and strength of the Nova Roman Senate and People of the Quirites,
as by offering you the incense I have well prayed good prayers,
for the very same reason be thou blessed by this sacrificial milk.]


(Libation of milk is made.)

2. PRECATIO

Dea Concordia, 
hisce Kalendis Decembribus 
anni quinti decimi Novae Romae conditae
te precor, veneror, quaesoque obtestorque:
uti pacem concordiamque et iustitiam constantem societati Novae Romae tribuas;
utique Rem Publicam Populi Novi Romani Quiritium confirmes, augeas, adiuves,
omnibusque discordiis liberes;
utique Res Publica Populi Novi Romani Quiritium semper floreat;
atque hoc anno anniversarii quinti decimi Novae Romae conditae convalescat;
atque pax et concordia, salus et gloria Novae Romae omni tempore crescat,
utique omnes qui se Romanos nominant unifices,
unum populum unamque gentem omnes qui se Romanos nominant facias,
unum populum in Nova Roma omnes Romanos hodiernos colligas;
utique Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi, domo, familiae
omnes in hoc anno sexto decimo Novae Romae conditae eventus bonos faustosque esse siris;
utique sies volens propitia
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus, quaestoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebis Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
Collegio Pontificum,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulieribus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!

[Goddess Concordia,
on these Kalends of December 
of the Fifteenth Anniversary Year of the founding of Nova Roma,
I pray, worship, ask and beseech you so
that you may grant peace and steadfast concord to the society of Nova Roma;
so that you may confirm, strengthen and help
the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
and save it from all discord;
so that the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites
may always flourish and prosper,
and in this year of the 15th Anniversary may get even stronger;
that peace and concord, the welfare and glory of Nova Roma may increase all the time;
and that you may unite all people who call themselves Roman,
make them who call themselves Roman one people and one nation,
collect together all modern Romans as one nation united into Nova Roma;
and that you allow all events in this 16th Year of Nova Roma to be good and salutary
to the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to me, to my household and to my family;
and so that you may be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the magistrates, consuls, the praetors, the quaestors of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the tribunes of the Nova Roman Plebs,
to the Nova Roman Senate,
to the College of Pontiffs,
to all Nova Roman citizens, men and women, boys and girls,
to me, to my household and to my family.]

3. SACRIFICIUM 

Sicut verba nuncupavi,
quaeque ita faxis,
uti ego me sentio dicere:
harum rerum ergo macte,
hoc lacte melle mixto libando,
hoc ture ommovendo
esto fito volens propitia
et hoc anno anniversarii quinti decimi Novae Romae conditae et semper
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
Reique Publicae Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
magistratibus, consulibus, praetoribus, quaestoribus Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
tribunis Plebis Novae Romanae,
Senatui Novo Romano,
Collegio Pontificum,
omnibus civibus, viris et mulierbus, pueris et puellabus Novis Romanis,
mihi, domo, familiae!

[As I have these words pronounced,
you shall do exactly
what I mean I am saying:
for all these reasons, thou blessed
by offering this milk with honey,
by offering this incense
be benevolent and propitious
both in this year of the 15th Anniversary of the founding of Nova Roma and always,
to the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the Republic of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the magistrates, the consuls, the praetors, the quaestors of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to the tribunes of the Nova Roman Plebs,
to the Nova Roman Senate,
to the College of Pontiffs,
to all Nova Roman citizens, men and women, boys and girls,
to me, to my household and to my family.]


(Libation of milk with honey is made and incense is
sacrificed.)

Ilicet!

(End of the sacrifice.)

5. PIACULUM

Concordia Populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
Omnes Di Immortales quocumque nomine:
si quidquam vobis in hac caerimonia displicet,
hoc lacte inferio veniam peto et vitium meum expio.

[Concordia of the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
All Gods Immortal by whathever name I may call you:
if anything in this ceremony was displeasing to you,
with this sacrificial milk I ask forgiveness and expiate my fault.]

(I offered incense on the altar and poured a libation of wine on the altar.)


Valete!

Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus,
Q U A E S T O R
P O N T I F E X
SACERDOS CONCORDIAE
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Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92088 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-01
Subject: Re: some personal observations
Aeternia Caecae Omnibusque S.P.D.

This was a very well written and also a very well stated post.  This can be applied to anyone who find themselves in such positions.

Valete bene,
Aeternia



--
"De mortuis nil nisi bonum"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92089 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-02
Subject: This session of the Comitia Plebis Tributa is now closed.
M. Pompeius Caninus plebibus spd:

This session of the Comitia Plebis Tributa is now closed. I thank all of you who took time to vote in this election. Nova Roma saw about a 6% turn out of eligible plebeian voters for this election. I hope Nova Roma will see greater numbers of plebeians taking time to vote in the coming year. There is no more important duty or more fundamental right than a citizen's vote. If you did not have an opportunity to vote in the comitia this time then I hope you will do so the next time the comitia plebis tributa is summoned.

Facite valeatis!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
America Boreoccidentalis

Vivat Nova Roma!

Very little is needed to make a happy life.
- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, Meditations, Book VII, 67. 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92090 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-02
Subject: Initial Results of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
M. Pompeius Caninus Quiritibus salutem dicit:

The election results for the Tribuni Plebis and the plebiscite are final. However, the results for the second Aedilis Plebis seat are not yet official as there were several write-in candidates. The official results for Aedilis Plebis will be announced once the second seat has been filled. I expect all of the newly elected officials, with the exception of the senior Censor, Ti. Galerius Paulinus, will take their oath of office and begin their terms on December 10, 2013. 

Election Results:

Tribunus Plebis (5)
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Gaius Claudius Quadratus
Lucius Ulpius Atellus
Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus
Aulus Apollonius Antullus

Aedilis Plebis (2)
Tiberius Iulius Nerva
The election results included several write-ins for Aedilis Plebis. I expect one of the write-ins to accept the office and begin his or her term on December 10th along with Ti. Iulius Nerva. I will publish final official results for the elections once this second seat is filled. 


Plebiscite Results:

The lex Pompeia de cursu honorum was pass with 23 tribes in favor of the lex and 4 tribes against the lex. There were 8 tribes voided without a vote. The lex is now in force. It can be viewed at http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Pompeia_de_cursu_honorum_(Nova_Roma) in the Nova Roma Wiki.



Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92091 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2013-12-02
Subject: Re: Initial Results of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
Salve Tribune  Pompeius Caninus 
 
I wanted to thank you for your year of service and for presiding over our Plebeian elections.
Yours will be a tough act to follow.
 
I would like to congratulate our newly elected Tribunes and Aedilis Plebis and look forward to working with all of you.
 
As indicated I will serve my full term as censor and will assume the office of Tribune on January 1st.
My sincere thanks to the voters for their support and participation .
 
Vale
 
Ti. Galerius Paulinus
Censor et Senator
 

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com; NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com; BackAlley@yahoogroups.com
From: caninus@...
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2013 18:15:06 -0700
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Initial Results of the Comitia Plebis Tributa

 
M. Pompeius Caninus Quiritibus salutem dicit:

The election results for the Tribuni Plebis and the plebiscite are final. However, the results for the second Aedilis Plebis seat are not yet official as there were several write-in candidates. The official results for Aedilis Plebis will be announced once the second seat has been filled. I expect all of the newly elected officials, with the exception of the senior Censor, Ti. Galerius Paulinus, will take their oath of office and begin their terms on December 10, 2013. 

Election Results:

Tribunus Plebis (5)
Tiberius Galerius Paulinus
Gaius Claudius Quadratus
Lucius Ulpius Atellus
Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus
Aulus Apollonius Antullus

Aedilis Plebis (2)
Tiberius Iulius Nerva
The election results included several write-ins for Aedilis Plebis. I expect one of the write-ins to accept the office and begin his or her term on December 10th along with Ti. Iulius Nerva. I will publish final official results for the elections once this second seat is filled. 


Plebiscite Results:

The lex Pompeia de cursu honorum was pass with 23 tribes in favor of the lex and 4 tribes against the lex. There were 8 tribes voided without a vote. The lex is now in force. It can be viewed at http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Pompeia_de_cursu_honorum_(Nova_Roma) in the Nova Roma Wiki.



Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92092 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-02
Subject: Updated agenda for the current Senate session
CALL TO CONVENE A FORMAL MEETING OF THE SENATE - Nov 25th to Dec 13th


Presiding Magistrate:
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, Consul

Quorum:
Decius Iunius Palladius is on Leave - his Proxy is assigned to Lucius
Cornelius Sulla Felix


SCHEDULE:

09:00 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 25-Nov-2013 : Call to order. Debate period
commences.

09:00 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 3-Dec-2013 : Debate period ends.

09:01 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 4-Dec-2013 : Call to vote. Voting period
commences.

09:01 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 12-Dec-2013 : Voting period ends.

11:59 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 13-Dec-2013 : Call to close issued before this
time.



AGENDA:

I - Website Migration Update
II - Renaming the Provinces established from the previous Senate
session
III - Provincial reform on American Medioccidentalis Superior
IV - CFO Matter
V - Request for use of Nova Roman Trademark
VI - Book Compilation issue (This could be multiple issues depending
on how the discussion goes)
VII - Appointment of Governor
VIII - Future Fundraising Authorization
IX - Welcome to the New/Returning Senators - Make sure all of them
are on the list.
X - Census Update
XI - Elevation to Patrician Status - C. Decius Laterensis



Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Tribunus Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92093 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-02
Subject: Re: Initial Results of the Comitia Plebis Tributa

Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

 

First, congratulations to all our new magistrates, and my best wishes for a productive year ahead for you.  As an aside, I believe that it has been quite a while since we had a full complement of Tribunes, and I am delighted to see that, this year, we do.  I hope that this is an indication of things to come in our electoral process.

 

Valete Bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92094 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-02
Subject: Re: Initial Results of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
Salvete omnes,


I concur with Caeca! It is exciting and great to see so many elected to office! This is truly indeed a sign of good times to come!

Congrats to all of you, and may you serve the Respublica well!


Optime valete,

L VITELLIVS TRIARIVS

Citizen of Nova Roma
Dominus praefectus of Factio Veneta
Senator of Nova Roma
Governor of New Province to be Renamed (LOL)
Wikiworker extraordinaire 

"Quam bene vivas refert, non quam diu." 

(The important thing isn't how long you live, but how well you live) 

~ L. Annaeus Seneca


On Monday, December 2, 2013 8:58 PM, cmc <c.mariacaeca@...  
Omnibus in foro S. P. D.
 
First, congratulations to all our new magistrates, and my best wishes for a productive year ahead for you.  As an aside, I believe that it has been quite a while since we had a full complement of Tribunes, and I am delighted to see that, this year, we do.  I hope that this is an indication of things to come in our electoral process.
 
Valete Bene!
C. Maria Caeca


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92095 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-02
Subject: Re: Initial Results of the Comitia Plebis Tributa
Salvete Omnes,

Yes not a Plebian but still sending congratulations to all who were elected.

Good job Caninus, you did great work running this election, and your entire tenure as Tribune.

Valete bene,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia 


"De mortuis nil nisi bonum"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92096 From: jirirys Date: 2013-12-03
Subject: Oath of Office - Aedilis Plebis T. Iulius Nerva
Tiberius Iulius Nerva Quiritibus et Omnibus SPD.

I, Jiří Rys, Tiberius Iulius Nerva, do hereby solemnly swear
to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Tiberius Iulius Nerva, swear to honor
the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the
Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Tiberius Iulius Nerva, swear to uphold and defend the Religio
Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a
way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Tiberius Iulius Nerva, swear to protect and defend the Constitution
of Nova Roma.

I, Tiberius Iulius Nerva, further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of Aedilis Plebis to the best of my
abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods
and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the position of Aedilis Plebis and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Optime valete!

Tiberius Iulius Nerva
Pannonia

Vivat Nova Roma!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92097 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Collegium Pontificum Discussion on Dies Nefasti
Avete Omnes,

Gentlemen, I want to state something for the record in case there is any attempt to change the procedures regarding Dies Nefasti.

On the Nova Roman Cista, there is a way to temporarily suspend the vote if it falls on those days.

However, using votingplace.net there is NO WAY to suspend even temporarily voting that falls on those days.  It would be tantamount to ending the vote early.

Look we have to be practical.  In ancient Rome, voting took place in one single day, ending before nightfall.  We have altered our voting to space it out over days.  As presiding magistrates we seek out auguries to get good signs to summon the Comitia or Senate into session.  We try to work within the guidelines of the parameters.  That is really about all we can do, unless we want to shorten the voting time by law to 1 or 2 days..

Respectfully,

Sulla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92098 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Collegium Pontificum Discussion on Dies Nefasti
SALVE!


Good to know. Thank you.
I think the CP don't need to change what was the usually way. Maybe to make this way clearer in our records.

VALE,
Sabinus


"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--------------------------------------------
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92099 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Collegium Pontificum Discussion on Dies Nefasti
Ave Amice,

No problem glad to be of assistance.  This is going to be one of those issues that since we do not follow the ancient method of actual voting there is almost no way that we can replicate that process.  The best we can do is to be practical and do our best to keep to the calendar but we cannot pigeon-hole magistrates because it would place an undue burden on presiding magistrates when there might be issues that need to be immediately addressed by either the Senate or the People.  Moderation not Suffocation please. :)

Respectfully,

Sulla




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92100 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Collegium Pontificum Discussion on Dies Nefasti

Salvete!

 

I had thought we would be discontinuing Votingplace at the end of this year, now that we have a working Cista.  Am I incorrect?  Also, it seems to me that if we don’t begin a Comitia on a Nefasti day, or perhaps begin a voting period on such a day, we’d be fine.

 

Valete!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92101 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Collegium Pontificum Discussion on Dies Nefasti
Ave,

We have paid for it til the end of Next year.  If everything goes right, next year will be the last year we will need votingplace.net.  I agree both of those suggestions are both reasonable and practical.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92102 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Collegium Pontificum Discussion on Dies Nefasti

Salvete!

 

Ah, I see.  However, if we either continue as we have, or if the CP determines that so long as a Comitia or a voting period do not begin on a die Nefasti, then there should be no issues on any level, and such adjustments can be made quite easily, without deferring consideration of crucial issues.

 

Valete!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92103 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Collegium Pontificum Discussion on Dies Nefasti
Ave,

Yes. :)

Agreed.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92104 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Still trying to track down the second aedilis plebis !
M. Pompeius Caninus Quiritibus spd:

The results of the Comitia Plebis Tributa elections and plebiscite are posted at http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Election_MMDCCLXVI_(Nova_Roma)#Comitia_Plebis_Tributa in the Nova Roma Wiki. 

The second Aedilis Plebis seat has still not been claimed as I have not yet heard from Senator Quintus Suetonius Paulinus. I need to find out if he accepts the office or declines before I can finalize the result for Aedilis Plebis. --- Senator, please contact me as soon as possible. ---

Bene valete!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92105 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Still trying to track down the second aedilis plebis !
ave,

Did you email him privately?  He is also on Facebook too.  Want me to send him a message on FB?

Sulla



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92106 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Still trying to track down the second aedilis plebis !
I have emailed him directly. I haven't tried Facebook. But, yeah, if you can get his attention and send him my way I would appreciate it. Thanks!

 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92107 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Still trying to track down the second aedilis plebis !
Ave,

Ok I will message him as soon as im home.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92108 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-12-04
Subject: Re: Still trying to track down the second aedilis plebis !
Caesar Canino sal.
 
Paulinus works as a geologist - straying often in mining camps. He often has infrequent and liimited net time as a result.
 
Optime vale

From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...

 
Ave,

Ok I will message him as soon as im home.

Respectfully,

Sulla




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92109 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-05
Subject: Nova Roman Saturnalia in Pannonia
Cn. Lentulus quaestor, pontifex, praefectus Italiae, legatus pr. pr. Pannoniae et Venediae Quiritibus SPD

Citizens, please read the following invitation to a living celebration and party of the Saturnalia of Nova Roma, organized by my province Pannonia:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

SATURNALIA NOVA ROMANA IN PANNONIA
(8th December, Budapest, Hungary)

"We reached for the roots of our culture, European civilization. "
"We wanted to understand who we really are in the Western world."
"We saw our mirror images on the faces of ancient Roman statues."

Saturnalia is an ancient Roman festival which, according to the mythical tradition, preserves the memory of the prehistoric golden age which
existed in the world under the rule of the god Saturn. The beginning of the festival is December 17, and as the winter solstice approaches and
light, life and joy overcome darkness, until December 24 Saturn's golden age returns for one week, and the world turns upside down. In Roman times Saturnalia meant a total holiday from work, the rich invited the poor, slaves shed their chains and were served by their masters. People wore red Phryigian caps, the symbol of freed slaves. Like at Christmas, a holiday which was later based upon Saturnalia, friends and family members gave each other gifts.

In the name of the international organization Nova Roma we invite you to our Saturnalia party, when we can find the source of our civilization, ancient Roman culture as a mystical and communal experience, by the means of live (and canned) ancient Roman music, a Roman ceremony to Saturn, readings and discussions, and Roman snacks.

8TH DECEMBER - PROGRAMS

http://www.aquincum.hu/programajanlo/saturnalia

ADMISSION IS FREE!


ACCOMMODATION AND MEAL ARE FREE TO OUR NOVA ROMAN GUESTS!

ATTENTION: Send a private mail asking about the details!

For those who want to come, contact the organizer Governor and Pontiff Cn. Cornelius Lentulus at:

cn_corn_lent@...


Io Saturnalia!

Cn. Lentulus, pontifex
QVAESTOR
PRAEFECTVS ITALIAE
LEG PR PR PANNONIAE ET VENEDIAE















     
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92110 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-05
Subject: FINAL DAY TO VOTE
Avete Omnes,

It is the final day to vote for the Comitia Populi Tributa.

Voting ends at 9 pm Arizona time this evening.

Respectfully,

Sulla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92111 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-05
Subject: Re: FINAL DAY TO VOTE

Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

 

Ah, my favorite soap box!  Wait a minute while I climb up … OK.  Among the rights, responsibilities and privileges of Nova Roman citizenship, exercising your vote is, perhaps the most important.  Voting is how we, the citizens express our will, and doing so carries far more weight than, for example, posting in the forum.  It is, in the final analysis, not the magistrates, nor the Senate, but the citizens who will determine the directions our Government takes, and even the roads they will travel.  We can support legislation or magisterial candidates, or we can withdraw our support from either, and defeat them.  Not voting is simply choosing not to fulfill the responsibility of a citizen, and it expresses in a way that nothing else can, that the non-voter does not wish to participate in the life of our community.  How you vote is beside the point, but *that* you vote is essential, if we want this to remain a Republic.

 

OK, jumping down, now, hauling soap box off until I need it again, but VOTE all ya’all!

 

Vale bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92112 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-05
Subject: Welcome to our new members
Salvete omnes!

Hello everyone, and a special greeting to our new members.

We have a number of new members who have succeeded in finding their way here, and to all of you I would like to say welcome to Rome, and welcome to our forum.

You join us at an exciting and important time as there has just been an election. Nova Roma is a recreation of the Roman Republic, and it is bound by a constitution and laws that reflect the will of the people. Therefore we, the people, vote to approve new laws and to elect new magistrates who are responsible for the running of the Republic in the coming year. Please read about the way our state operates, and the various magistracies, in our wiki pages.

We would all like to hear who you are, what drew you to Rome, and what books, poems, plays and films might have stirred your interest. We are interested to know whereabouts in the world you live, and what Roman sites you have seen or hope to see one day. And we have a wide range of special interest groups that might appeal to you, so tell us about your Roman interests and we will direct you to the particular group that specialises in that topic.

As newcomers each of you will no doubt have questions to ask, so please let us know how we can help you find your way. And if you would like to have a go at helping those who run the Republic or your local Province, please ask for an opportunity to take part.

Above all please join in with our discussions, - or indeed start a topic yourself that others will no doubt respond to. So welcome again, and we hope to hear from you soon.

Valete omnes!

Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92113 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-06
Subject: Voting is Closed
Avete Omnes,

The Voting period of the Comitia Populi Tributa has closed.  

Thank you everyone for participating.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92114 From: Tiberius Cassius Date: 2013-12-06
Subject: Re: Welcome to our new members
Salve!

Tiberius Cassius Saturninus here, i believe i already sent you an email but i am having trouble finding any record of it, and as such its making me think it did not send. it was not sent like this mail, but on the album civium, and so i suppose this message is twofold. Im wondering if you received the original message i sent you regarding what more i can do for Nova Roma? And also where any record of sending that mail might be kept? 
Sorry to trouble you with such menial matters!

Vale.

Saturninus


On Thursday, December 5, 2013 10:18 PM, GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS <jbshr1pwa@...  
Salvete omnes!

Hello everyone, and a special greeting to our new members.

We have a number of new members who have succeeded in finding their way here, and to all of you I would like to say welcome to Rome, and welcome to our forum.

You join us at an exciting and important time as there has just been an election. Nova Roma is a recreation of the Roman Republic, and it is bound by a constitution and laws that reflect the will of the people. Therefore we, the people, vote to approve new laws and to elect new magistrates who are responsible for the running of the Republic in the coming year. Please read about the way our state operates, and the various magistracies, in our wiki pages.

We would all like to hear who you are, what drew you to Rome, and what books, poems, plays and films might have stirred your interest. We are interested to know whereabouts in the world you live, and what Roman sites you have seen or hope to see one day. And we have a wide range of special interest groups that might appeal to you, so tell us about your Roman interests and we will direct you to the particular group that specialises in that topic.

As newcomers each of you will no doubt have questions to ask, so please let us know how we can help you find your way. And if you would like to have a go at helping those who run the Republic or your local Province, please ask for an opportunity to take part.

Above all please join in with our discussions, - or indeed start a topic yourself that others will no doubt respond to. So welcome again, and we hope to hear from you soon.

Valete omnes!

Crispus



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92115 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-06
Subject: Re: Welcome to our new members
Salve Saturnine, et salvete omnes!

Thanks for your reply, and welcome to the Main List, the Forum Romanum.

You originally sent me a personal email, and I invited you to join the Britannia list and this Main List and start taking part in both those fora. So don't worry - nothing has gone astray.

My earlier response to you was to encourage you to tell us more about yourself, what attracted you to Rome and to Nova Roma, and ask what your interests and aspirations are. If you have skills and time to spare we can certainly make very good use of those. We have recently been voting for magistrates to serve next year, and they will all be glad of some help. As a newcomer we cannot expect you to be an expert, but fresh ideas and a new mind are always very useful in any of the teams that run our Republic. So have a look at the various magistrate positions described in our website, and see if there is an opportunity in one of them where you would like to offer your talents. Just being part of a team as a "scribe" and helping out will be very much appreciated.

On the Britannia site I could use a "newshound" to help me spot news items, TV and radio programmes, archaeological news and film releases that will interest our own members, and if you could chat to me on the provincial site about that I'm sure you can make an easy start there. Just apply here:-

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Britannia-Provincia/

And I have sent you an invitation to join.

So, please start by telling us your background, and lets take it from there.

Vale, et valete omnes!

Crispus



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92116 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-06
Subject: Results of the Comitia Populi Tributa.
Avete Omnes,

It is my sincere pleasure to post the results of the recent Comitia Populi results.  We begin with the incoming magistrates and then move to the two laws that were being considered.

Quaestor:

First round is won by C. Decius Laterensis with 24 tribes. G. Quinctius Petrus Augustinus is elected in the second round with 24 tribes.

Curule Aedile:  L. Vitellius Triarius is elected with 25 tribes.

Lex Cornelia Poenalis: This law passed with 15 tribes in favor and 12 against, including ties.

Lex Cornelia de Classibus: This law passed with 21 tribes in favor and 6 against including ties.

Thank you to everyone who took the time to participate and vote.

Most Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92117 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Test message
Salvete omnes!

This is a test message being sent to check service operation.

Valete omnes!

Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92118 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Test message
Salvete omnes!

This is a test message.

Valete omnes!

Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92119 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Re: Test message
Ave,

Got it.

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92120 From: Michael Kelly Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Re: Test message
Got it!
 
QSP
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92121 From: Tiberius Cassius Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Re: Welcome to our new members
Salve,

Ah okay, sorry i cannot find any such message but i must admit im still having a little trouble learning my way around yahoo (i have never used it before and for some reason just seem to be having difficulty with it!). I believe i already posted a message with a quick summary about myself some months ago, would this be required again? In the interests of advertising my services so to speak?
I should also very much like to hear more about this newshound job you have for me.
(On a lesser and slightly embarrassing note, i have a rudimentary knowledge of the Latin language, but in what context is Saturnine used? Ive not heard it before, should i ever refer to myself in this way is more my question)

Vale.




On Friday, December 6, 2013 8:49 PM, GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS <jbshr1pwa@...  
Salve Saturnine, et salvete omnes!

Thanks for your reply, and welcome to the Main List, the Forum Romanum.

You originally sent me a personal email, and I invited you to join the Britannia list and this Main List and start taking part in both those fora. So don't worry - nothing has gone astray.

My earlier response to you was to encourage you to tell us more about yourself, what attracted you to Rome and to Nova Roma, and ask what your interests and aspirations are. If you have skills and time to spare we can certainly make very good use of those. We have recently been voting for magistrates to serve next year, and they will all be glad of some help. As a newcomer we cannot expect you to be an expert, but fresh ideas and a new mind are always very useful in any of the teams that run our Republic. So have a look at the various magistrate positions described in our website, and see if there is an opportunity in one of them where you would like to offer your talents. Just being part of a team as a "scribe" and helping out will be very much appreciated.

On the Britannia site I could use a "newshound" to help me spot news items, TV and radio programmes, archaeological news and film releases that will interest our own members, and if you could chat to me on the provincial site about that I'm sure you can make an easy start there. Just apply here:-

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Britannia-Provincia/

And I have sent you an invitation to join.

So, please start by telling us your background, and lets take it from there.

Vale, et valete omnes!

Crispus



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92122 From: shoshana hathaway Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Re: Welcome to our new members

Salve Saturnine et Salvete omnes!

 

Ok, let me see if I can answer a few of your questions.  Saturnine is the vocative case of Saturninus, your cognomen (3rd name).  It is only used by other people when addressing you directly as in, for example in an email.  A rough English equivalent would be “dear (insert name).  So, no, you would never refer to yourself using that form.

 

As to working as a scribe, well, it is best for citizens to wait for a few months to get an idea of how we do things, and I think there used to be a requirement that one had to be a citizen for 6 months before he/she could be appointed to a Scribe position.  However, it so happens that you have received your citizenship at a time when magistrates will soon be looking for help, so this is what I suggest.  Spend the next month observing us and researching the duties of the different magistrates who have cohors (working groups of scribes and other assistants).  In January, contact the new magistrates who have authority over the things that interest you, and offer your help.  You might not get appointed, but some magistrates are willing to help new citizens get their feet wet, so to speak, by allowing them to volunteer with the cohors in an unofficial capacity.  You might not get Century (Census?) points, but you will get good experience, and there is no better way to get to know fellow citizens by working beside them in a small working group.

 

As to the job Crispus has for you, well, he will need to explain that … but I’m sure he wouldn’t mind if you shared whatever goodies you find with the members of this list, and, especially if you have information of interest to anyone fascinated by subjects touching on ancient Rome, from new books to archaeological news to reenactments to …well, just about anything, these can also be shared on the Forum Hospitum, of which you are also a member.

 

Sorry, can’t help with Yahoo .. that’s a mystery and usually a plague to me.

 

Hope some of this helps you a bit!

 

Vale et valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92123 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Re: Welcome to our new members - some Latin tips
Salve Saturnine, et salvete omnes!
Hello Saturninus, and hello everyone.

I've translated my opening greeting into English to help you understand what I have done with your name. Your full Roman name is in three parts. This system is called the "tria nomina", which means the "three names" The three parts to your name are as follows:-

1. The "praenomen" or first part. This is Tiberius.
2. The "nomen" which indicates the gens or family to which you belong. This is Cassius, so you are a member of the gens Cassia.
3. The third part, the cognomen, which is the name by which you are known to all of us. This is Saturninus, which means a follower of Saturnus.

You can read more about Roman names here:-

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Choosing_a_Roman_name

So, you refer to yourself, perfectly correctly as Saturninus. "Hello, this is me, Saturninus"

But when I reply to you, I say "Salve Saturnine" - or in Ehglish "Hello Saturninus".

Latin changes the endings of words in order to convey the meaning of sentences.Saturnine is the vocative word form, and by changing the ending we have changed the meaning of the word.

In Nova Roma we usually only use Latin as the opening and closing of our messages. You do not have to do this, but you will notice that most of us try to do this. If you would like to find out more, have a look in our Wiki page called Latin for email - you can find it here:-

http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Latin_for_e-mail

You mentioned that you find Yahoo difficult. Well, we all run into problems with it occasionally - just keep persevering.

I am pleased that you would like to get more involved in our civic life. I shall reply to you on the Britannia site with more information about being my "newshound", and we can start you off on that.

But the magistrates of Nova Roma for the coming year will all be looking for helpers, so just post a message here telling us all about yourself, what interests you, what skills you have, how you would like to develop, and wait and see what responses you get. Meanwhile, Magistrates - here is a keen young man seeking a job - please invite him to help in your teams.

Vale Saturnine, et valete omnes!
Goodbye for now Saturninus, and goodbye everybody.

Crispus




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92124 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-12-07
Subject: Re: Welcome to our new members
A. Tullia Scholastica Ti. Cassio Saturnino S.P.D. 

[This is the formal salutation used in letters; it employs the Latin dative case for the person addressed, and the nominative for the name of the sender.  You may find more about such matters on the NR website.  Most of the veteran citizens are well aware that I am among the senior Latinists in NR, and teach that subject]. 

 

Salve,

Ah okay, sorry i cannot find any such message but i must admit im still having a little trouble learning my way around yahoo (i have never used it before and for some reason just seem to be having difficulty with it!).


Welcome to Nova Roma, and to the new godawful form of Yahoo!  They recently changed everything and have effectively ruined a decent system.  You will have to deal with them less often if you set your mail for individual e-mails or digests from Yahoo lists.  Sometimes they lose the mail, too, but lately that seems to occur less often than in the past.  Now if they would just lose the ugly new format…one rarely sees the actual image the list owner has prepared for a given list, and even then it is often distorted, as is the NR flag on the main list Yahoo page.  


I believe i already posted a message with a quick summary about myself some months ago, would this be required again? In the interests of advertising my services so to speak?

You might wish to repeat any information; people are busy and have been distracted by discussions on legislation and other matters for elections.  There are also these holidays approaching…and if you sent a private message via the Album Civium, it would not reach more than one addressee (we hope…).  

I should also very much like to hear more about this newshound job you have for me.

That sounds suspiciously like a job for an aedilician scriba…But Crispus, a wonderful writer, may have something else in mind for you.  

(On a lesser and slightly embarrassing note, i have a rudimentary knowledge of the Latin language, but in what context is Saturnine used? Ive not heard it before,

'Saturnine' is the vocative singular of your cognomen, or third name.  The third name alone is used in semi-formal contexts; the praenomen, or first name, is never used alone in such a way, and is restricted to very familiar situations, as in the family or among very close friends.  The abbreviated praenomen and other two names are used in formal situations, as I have used my name above.  The vocative is used when called or directly addressing someone, as Caeca has pointed out.  

should i ever refer to myself in this way is more my question)

In poetry, you might refer to yourself in the vocative, but that would be unlikely in prose--unless you like to talk to yourself!  

If you would like to learn more Latin, there are some resources on the NR wikipedia, and we offer Latin courses to Roman citizens (and others) via an online schola (school) independent of NR.  Currently all classes are in session, and some are in first-semester examinations, so cannot be entered, but those with sufficient background may enter the traditional-method Grammatica Latina courses based on the popular Wheelock text when we resume on Epiphany (January 6th). One has to have completed at least a year or two of HS Latin, or one semester to one year of college Latin, however, before one can enter even at that point.  Next August / September, one may enter either the traditional method Wheelock courses or the assimilation method Desessard ones as a rank beginner.  Work is involved, however.  It is not easy to learn a language as an adult, and English speakers often find highly-inflected languages such as Latin even more challenging.  Please contact me privately if you would like more information; at the bottom of the Yahoo message, you should be able to find something along the lines of 'reply to sender' which will allow you do do that.  

Vale.

Vale! 




On Friday, December 6, 2013 8:49 PM, GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS <jbshr1pwa@...
Salve Saturnine, et salvete omnes!

Thanks for your reply, and welcome to the Main List, the Forum Romanum.

You originally sent me a personal email, and I invited you to join the Britannia list and this Main List and start taking part in both those fora. So don't worry - nothing has gone astray.

My earlier response to you was to encourage you to tell us more about yourself, what attracted you to Rome and to Nova Roma, and ask what your interests and aspirations are. If you have skills and time to spare we can certainly make very good use of those. We have recently been voting for magistrates to serve next year, and they will all be glad of some help. As a newcomer we cannot expect you to be an expert, but fresh ideas and a new mind are always very useful in any of the teams that run our Republic. So have a look at the various magistrate positions described in our website, and see if there is an opportunity in one of them where you would like to offer your talents. Just being part of a team as a "scribe" and helping out will be very much appreciated.

On the Britannia site I could use a "newshound" to help me spot news items, TV and radio programmes, archaeological news and film releases that will interest our own members, and if you could chat to me on the provincial site about that I'm sure you can make an easy start there. Just apply here:-

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Britannia-Provincia/

And I have sent you an invitation to join.

So, please start by telling us your background, and lets take it from there.

Vale, et valete omnes!

Crispus



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92125 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2013-12-08
Subject: Roman Virtues: Humanitas

Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus omnibus in his foris S.P.D.

 

     Salvete omnes! Good morning and welcome back to the Roman Virtues Project - an ongoing exploration and discussion of the Roman virtues and what it means to be Roman, undertaken by the citizens and prospective citizens of Nova Roma! I intend to post a new topic in the Roman Virtue Project on or around the market day once every nundinal period (check the fasti at http://novaroma.org/nr/Fasti_MMDCCLXVI if you're not sure when the next nundina is). I've been away for a while, partly due to work, partly due to unexpected illness, but I'm resuming the project where I left off. This virtue for this nundinal period is humanitas.

Roman Virtue: Humanitas

Our website says of Humanitas: "Humanity" Refinement, civilization, learning, and being cultured.

The Oxford Latin Dictionary defines Humanitas as it relates to Roman virtue thus:

"1. Human nature or character
2. The quality distinguishing civilized man from savages or beasts, civilization, culture
3. Humane character, kindness, human feeling"
 

So what does this mean for us as Nova Romans today?

     "Humanitas" gives us the English word "humanity," of course, but how is being human a virtue? The key here is in the OLD's 2nd definition - "the quality distinguishing civilized man from savages or beasts" - humanity as opposed to savagery, the condition of wild beasts. So humanitas for the Romans contains a sense of what makes communal living and community possible - kindness, respect for fellow human beings, willingness to sacrifice for others and put the res publica, the common interest, ahead of personal interest. It is easy to lose sight of this as an essential Roman virtue if one focuses too much on the towering figures of the late Republic who put themselves ahead of the res publica - thus ensuring the end of the Republic and, ultimately, the longer slumber of Romanitas from which we in Nova Roma hope to awaken it. A true Roman Republic, and true Romanitas, can only tolerate a lack of humanitas so far before all is lost

     What are your thoughts on humanitas? Who are the paragons and exemplars of humanitas from Roma Antiqua and Nova Roma? We had some great suggestions the last time I ran the Roman Virtues, like the emperor Marcus Aurelius from Roma Antiqua, and our very own Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus in Nova Roma. I look forward to hearing your ideas!

Data Phoenice a.d. XII Kalendas Quintiles a.d. VI Idus Decembres anno A.U.C. MMDCCLXVI (L. Sulla [III] cos. sine collega)

Sent from Phoenix December 8th in the year from the founding of the city 2766 (in the 3rd consulship of L. Sulla, without a colleague)

Gaius Tullius Valerianus
 
Augur of Nova Roma
Lictor Curiatus of Nova Roma
Tribunus Plebis of Nova Roma
Proconsul
 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92126 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-08
Subject: Chariot races for Consualia 2766 auc
Caninus omnibus in foro SPD.

Sunday, December 15, is Consualia. I will be sonsoring ludi events will
be held to celebrate this festival. This will be a traditional chariot
race and a mule-pulled chariot race.

Anyone who wishes to participate in the Chariot Race must send an entry
request to M. Pompeius Caninus at caninus@... before 3:00 PM Rome
time on Saturday, December 14, 2013. Multiple entries are permitted - up
to three per person - for the traditional chariot race. Only one entry
person is permitted for the mule chariot race. Each entry should bear
the subject header "Chariot Race" for the traditional race or "Mule
Race" for the mule race and include the following information:
1. Your name in Nova Roma
2. The name of your chariot
3. The name of your driver
4. The tactic you intend to use for the Quarterfinals and Semifinals
races
5. The tactic you intend to use for the Final race.
6. The name of your FACTIO or team: Russata, Albata, Veneta, Præsina

Six (6) race tactics are possible:
A. To hurry in the last laps
B. To pass the curves closely the "spina" of the circus.
C. To support a constant pace
D. To lash the rivals
E. To push the rivals to the wall of the circus
F. To hurry in the straight lines

Send your entries to caninus@... and not to the public fora.

Please feel free to add all the details you can about the background and
description of your entries, especially the driver and the chariot
itself - the more details I have, the better will the race accounts turn
out to be. Dirty actions are NOT allowed.

The winner of the final will receive a prize.

Bene valete!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator

Vivat Nova Roma!

Very little is needed to make a happy life.
- Marcus Aurelius Antoninus, Meditations, Book VII, 67.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92127 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2013-12-08
Subject: FW: [Explorator] explorator 16.34

 

From: rogueclassicist@...
To: Explorator@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2013 11:11:47 -0500
Subject: [Explorator] explorator 16.34

 
================================================================
explorator 16.34                               December 8, 2013
================================================================
Editor's note: Most urls should be active for at least eight
hours from the time of publication.

For your computer's protection, Explorator is sent in plain text
and NEVER has attachments (other than the odd youtube video).
Be suspicious of any Explorator which arrives otherwise!!!

n.b. It has come to my attention that several mail carriers are
now filtering mail with lots of links (like explorator) as spam.
You might want to add Explorator to your address book or whatever
to ensure it gets through.
================================================================
================================================================
Thanks to Arthur Shippee, Dave Sowdon, Edward Rockstein, Kurt Theis,
John McMahon, Barnea Selavan, Joseph Lauer, Mike Ruggeri,
Wilfried Zankl. Hernan Astudillo, Rochelle Altman, Bob Heuman,
Don Buck, Jennifer Cosham,  Wendy van Duivenvoorde, Richard Campbell,
Richard C. Griffiths,and Ross W. Sargent for headses upses this
week (as always hoping I have left no one out).

n.b. The problem with dead links seems to be -- for the most part --
specific to yahoomail users (although some .edu addresses seem
also to be affected). If this doesn't apply to you, all I can
suggest is that you cut and paste the following link to read it
via yahoo's site:

http://www.yahoogroups.com/neo/groups/Explorator/conversations/topics

================================================================
EARLY HOMINIDS
================================================================
Neanderthals in Italy apparently liked to keep the cave tidy and organized:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-12/uocd-nes120213.php
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131203091616.htm
http://phys.org/news/2013-12-evidence-neanderthals-spaces.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/archaeology/10492170/Neanderthals-were-pioneers-of-domestic-bliss.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/well-organized-neanderthals-tidied-around-cave-2D11699332
http://www.sciencecodex.com/new_evidence_suggests_neanderthals_organized_their_living_spaces-124030
http://natmonitor.com/2013/12/03/new-evidence-reveals-neanderthals-organized-their-living-spaces-like-modern-humans/
http://www.scienceworldreport.com/articles/11333/20131203/ancient-neanderthals-organized-homes-modern-humans.htm
http://www.newser.com/story/178590/surprise-neanderthals-were-fine-housekeepers.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2517501/Neanderthal-homes-tidy-organised-Ancient-shelter-reveals-living-spaces-carefully-divided-kitchen-bedroom.html
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1113018291/neanderthals-organized-their-homes-120313/
http://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium-1.562100
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/05/neanderthal-shelters-organized-activity-excavations_n_4390398.html
http://science.time.com/2013/12/04/neanderthals-were-neat-freaks-inside-the-original-man-caves/?xid=rss-topstories
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/neanderthal-homes-neat-and-tidy.22857856
http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Blog/2013/12/03/Neanderthals-organized-their-living-spaces-like-modern-humans/3611386101144/
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/rock-shelter-evidence-shows-neanderthals-organised-living-spaces
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/neanderthals-kept-homes-39-organised-39-135400158.html

A 400 000 years b.p. femur from Spain is causing excitement because of DNA links with
the Denisovans:

http://www.nature.com/news/hominin-dna-baffles-experts-1.14294
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nature12788.html  (abstract)
http://phys.org/news/2013-12-oldest-hominin-dna-sequenced.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131204132018.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25193442
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/science/at-400000-years-oldest-human-dna-yet-found-raises-new-mysteries.html?ref=science
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/dna-from-400000-year-old-hominin-a-great-leap-forward
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2013/1204/Why-scientists-are-baffled-by-a-half-million-year-old-human-thigh-bone-video
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2013/1204/Oldest-human-DNA-discovered-complicating-models-of-our-origin
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029462.600-oldest-human-genome-dug-up-in-spains-pit-of-bones.html#.UqRq9CcQQ_U
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/archaeology/10495222/Oldest-DNA-obtained-from-human-ancestor.html
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303722104579238193023240718
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/04/discovery-of-400000-year-old-dna-raises-questions-about-human-evolution/
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/12/131204-human-fossil-dna-spain-denisovan-cave/
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=earliest-human-dna-shows-unforeseen-mixing-with-mystery-population
http://www.universityherald.com/articles/5998/20131204/400-000-year-old-dna-is-the-oldest-known-human-sample-and-has-scientists-questioning-evolution-of-man.htm
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/12/05/ancient_human_dna/
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2013/12/04/fossils-yield-oldest-known-human-dna/

Paranthropus bosei apparently was a great tree climber:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131205185609.htm
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-12/uocd-dop120513.php
http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/12/prweb11398540.htm
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2519467/1-34-million-year-old-human-ancestor-massive-arm-bones-climbing-trees.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

… while inbreeding seems to have been ‘common’ among early hominids:

http://www.livescience.com/41610-ancient-human-sex.html
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22029453.500-inbreeding-shaped-the-course-of-human-evolution.html

Feature on Neanderthal curiosities:

http://discovermagazine.com/2013/dec/22-20-things-you-didnt-know-aboutneanderthals

More on earlier-than-human stone-tipped spears:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11166135&ref=rss
================================================================
AFRICA
================================================================
Again we’re hearing of Libya ‘getting serious’ about fighting antiquities smuggling:

http://allafrica.com/stories/201312021213.html
http://northafricapost.com/4649-libya-to-fight-antiquities-smuggling.html

================================================================
ANCIENT NEAR EAST AND EGYPT
================================================================
GPR has revealed the existence of multiple tombs in the Valley of the Kings:

http://www.livescience.com/41675-tombs-hidden-in-valley-of-kings.html
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/12/05/mummy-mystery-multiple-tombs-hidden-in-egypt-valley-kings/
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/mummy-mystery-multiple-tombs-hidden-egypt-39-valley-123910086.html

3000 years b.p. ‘potted puppies’ from Abydos:

http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/dog-pots-found-in-egypt-131205.htm

Events are contributing to a funding shortage at the Egyptian Museum:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/9/44/88237/Heritage/Museums/Egypt-museum-hurt-by-political-turmoil.aspx
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/dec/08/egypts-continued-unrest-leaves-museum-short-of/
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/383067-home-of-king-tuts-treasures-taking-a-hammering/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/egypts-antiquities-fall-victim-to-political-chaos/2013/12/04/70a646e0-5cb7-11e3-8d24-31c016b976b2_print.html
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/12/04/pieces-that-belonged-to-egypt-ancient-celebrities-like-cleopatra-now-victims/

Plans to poke around the tomb of Min:

http://www.sotterraneidiroma.it/notizie-sdr/item/missione-italo-spagnola-per-tomba-maestro-del-re?category_id=20  (Italian)
http://ansamed.ansa.it/ansamed/it/notizie/rubriche/cultura/2013/12/02/Archeologia-missione-italo-spagnola-tomba-maestro-re_9716603.html  (Italian)

A purloined ushabti figure is returning to Egypt from Brussels:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/9/40/88491/Heritage/Ancient-Egypt/th-Dynasty-ushabti-figure-coming-home-from-Brussel.aspx

… as are five Ptolemaic items from France:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/9/40/88315/Heritage/Ancient-Egypt/Egypt-recovers-five-Ptolemaic-objects-from-France.aspx
http://www.english.rfi.fr/africa/20131204-france-returns-stolen-antiques-egypt
http://allafrica.com/stories/201312041509.html
http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=63019

Fallout from the actions of those German ‘archaeologists’ scraping paint from the
Great Pyramid:

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/six-officials-punished-theft-archaeological-site
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/News/4757/47/Playing-with-Egypt%E2%80%99s-heritage.aspx
http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/News/4865/17/Ancient-thievery.aspx

… while some Russian tourists were detained for filming around the pyramids:

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/two-russian-tourists-detained-filming-pyramids-area

Feature on copper mining in Southern Jordan:

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/TheAsorBlog/~3/91f9nl7oP1g/

Evidence of 13 000 years bp funeral banquets in the Carmel Mountains near Haifa:

http://www.newkerala.com/news/story/97103/happy-birth-day-rekha.html#.UqRzgicQQ_U
http://en-maktoob.news.yahoo.com/remains-prehistoric-funerary-banquets-discovered-israel-211820664.html

First ruins of a Hasmonean building from Jerusalem:

http://www.livescience.com/41640-archaeologists-find-hasmonean-building-jerusalem.html
http://www.antiquities.org.il/article_Item_eng.asp?sec_id=25&subj_id=240&id=2033&module_id=#as
http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/IsraelExperience/History/Pages/Hasmonean-period-building-uncovered-in-Jerusalem-3-Dec-2013.aspx
http://www.jewishpress.com/news/breaking-news/first-hasmonean-building-uncovered-in-the-city-of-david/2013/12/03/
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/12/03/city-david-discovery-fills-gap-in-jerusalem-history/
http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=11&int_new=66637
http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Archaeologists-discover-remains-of-building-from-Hasmonean-period-in-Jerusalem-333812
http://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium-1.561526
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/174744
http://www.israelhayom.com/site/newsletter_article.php?id=13747
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/city-david-discovery-fills-gap-jerusalem-history-163926541.html

Yet another political side to archaeology in Israel:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/11/israeli-land-claims-archaeology-ideology-2013111113012956687.html

In the wake of the James Ossuary decision, Robert Deutsch is suing Israel:

http://bibleinterp.com/articles/2013/12/kal378001.shtml
http://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/1.561410
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/12/03/antiques-dealer-sues-israeli-government-for-3-million-after-acquitted-forgery/
http://www.appeal-democrat.com/news/regional_news/middle-east/article_70f8a1ae-c881-55db-af1e-c659f78c2378.html
http://www.afanews.com/home/item/2278-antiques-dealer-sues-israel#.UqDi5OIyHZk
http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/news/robert-deutsch-files-suit-against-the-iaa/
http://www.canada.com/technology/Israel+antiquities+dealer+acquitted+forgery+sues+Israel+slander/9241785/story.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2516092/10-000-year-old-house-unearthed-archaeologists-Judean-Shephelah-near-Jerusalem.html
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/12/03/antiques-dealer-sues-israeli-government-for-3-million-after-acquitted-forgery/

The National Museum of Iraq remains closed:

http://www.aina.org/news/20131206195359.htm

A tower dating to Cyrus the Great:

http://www.sotterraneidiroma.it/notizie-sdr/item/a-persepoli-scoperta-antica-torre-costruita-da-ciro-il-grande?category_id=20
http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/News/Spettacolo/Archeologia-a-Persepoli-scoperta-antica-torre-costruita-da-Ciro-il-Grande_32943046652.html

A 900 years b.p. fountain from Old Ramle:

http://www.jewishpress.com/news/highway-work-uncovers-900-year-0ld-fountain-in-garden/2013/12/08/

Feature on Byzantium’s gates and walls:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/the-gates-of-istanbul.aspx?pageID=238&nID=59146&NewsCatID=438

Overview of finds made during megaconstruction projects in Istanbul:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/marmaray-and-metro-excavations-yielded-major-discoveries-about-istanbuls-past.aspx?PageID=238&NID=58813&NewsCatID=375

More rumblings about turning Hagia Sophia into a mosque again:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/on-faith/turkish-leaders-want-to-convert-the-hagia-sophia-back-into-a-mosque/2013/12/04/0d84411e-5d27-11e3-8d24-31c016b976b2_story.html

… while an Istanbul monastery will be a mosque by next year:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=11&int_new=66594
http://www.france24.com/en/20131127-istanbul-monastery-mosque-turkey-hurriyet

cf: http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/12/03/248355379/some-turkish-churches-get-makeovers-as-mosques

More on Tel Kabri:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/22/archeologists_dig_up_3700_year_old_psychedelic_plonk/
http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2013/11/archeologists-discovered-a-stash-of-3700-year-old-psychotropic-wine/

================================================================
ANCIENT GREECE AND ROME (AND CLASSICS)
================================================================
Bronze Age Thracian chariot find from Serbia:

http://inserbia.info/news/2013/12/serbian-archaeologist-finds-4000-year-old-chariot/

A possible Roman burial from a North Yorkshire sewage trench:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-25223852
http://www.independent.co.uk/incoming/ancient-skeleton-found-during-north-yorkshire-sewer-improvements-8986840.html
http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/10854517._/
http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10854517.Body_found_during_sewer_work/
http://www.thescarboroughnews.co.uk/news/local/ancient-skeleton-found-during-norton-sewer-works-1-6294866
http://www.gazetteherald.co.uk/news/10854002._/

Latest wall collapse from Pompeii:

http://www.livescience.com/41692-crumbling-walls-in-pompeii-prompt-outrage.html
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/02/us-italy-pompeii-idUSBRE9B10PI20131202
http://www.timeslive.co.za/lifestyle/travel/2013/12/03/wall-crumbles-in-italy-s-pompeii-ruins-after-heavy-rains
 
Project mapping quarrying tunnels beneath Rome:

http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/secret-labyrinth-of-roman-tunnels-mapped-131202.htm
http://www.livescience.com/41559-rome-quarry-collapse.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/04/tunnels-under-rome-mapped-labyrinth_n_4383146.html
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=secret-labyrinth-of-tunnels-under-rome-mapped
http://www.csmonitor.com/The-Culture/Family/Modern-Parenthood/2013/1203/Tunnels-under-Rome-inspire-thumbs-up-to-Minecraft-video
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2518042/Labyrinth-ancient-Roman-tunnels-mapped-stop-Italys-capital-collapsing-underground-void.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/53716324/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/secret-labyrinth-tunnels-under-rome-mapped/
http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Blog/2013/12/03/Secret-maze-of-tunnels-under-Rome-mapped/5501386093529/

Not quite sure where to put this one … a Greco-Roman tomb with a Greek limestone
relief discovered at al-Qantra while in pursuit of antiquities smugglers:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/9/41/88083/Heritage/GrecoRoman/A-limestone-relief-found-beneath-a-residential-are.aspx

The Riace bronzes apparently have returned home and will be back on display in a couple
of weeks:

http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/english/2013/12/06/Calabria-ancient-Riace-bronzes-return-home_9738899.html
http://www.ansa.it/web/notizie/rubriche/english/2013/12/06/Riace-Bronzes-back-home_9736801.html
http://www.repubblica.it/cultura/2013/12/06/foto/reggio_c_i_bronzi_di_riace_tornano_al_museo_archeologico-72840936/1/?ref=search#1    (Italian)
http://www.lastampa.it/2013/12/06/cultura/arte/i-bronzi-di-riace-finalmente-a-casa-3qhQyyL45PyixIIwzHElBK/pagina.html  (Italian)
http://www.iltempo.it/cultura-spettacoli/2013/12/06/i-bronzi-di-riace-tornano-al-museo-1.1195697  (Italian)

Feature on scorpions in antiquity:

http://www.wondersandmarvels.com/2013/12/scorpions-in-antiquity.html

A new management plan for the Antonine Wall:

http://www.culture24.org.uk//history-and-heritage/archaeology/art460487
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/five-year-plan-for-future-of-antonine-wall-launched
cf http://www.historic-scotland.gov.uk/antonine-wall-management-plan-2014-19-sea-statement.pdf

… while Hadrian’s wall seems to have a funding crisis:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-25230576

Funding the Colosseum restoration:

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303914304579193891982221478?mod=WeekendHeader_Right

Latest from the Paphos Archaeological Project:

http://www.moi.gov.cy/moi/pio/pio.nsf/All/56EB0428B259D9BBC2257C3700302D62?Opendocument
http://incyprus.philenews.com/en-gb/Top-Stories-News/4342/38407/new-findings-at-paphos-agora

The Cambridge Museum has been given a sculpture of Jupiter:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-25234717
http://www.culture24.org.uk/history-and-heritage/archaeology/art460364

Some Roman coins from a Cumbrian farm have been declared treasure:

http://www.timesandstar.co.uk/roman-coins-found-on-cumbrian-farm-declared-treasure-1.1103226

What Robert Hannah is up to:

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/CU1312/S00006/royal-fellowship-for-classics-expert.htm

Latest3d reconstruction of the Acropolis:

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/12/05/the-reconstruction-of-acropolis-in-a-3d-video/
http://vimeo.com/81080725

Review of Barry Powell’s Iliad translation:

http://www.kansas.com/2013/12/08/3166690/new-translation-of-iliad-showcases.html

More on alternate uses for Roman lead ingots:

http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/1113016712/dark-matter-studies-shipwrecks-rome-lead-ingots-120213/
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/11/131129101905.htm

More on Rosia Montana:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2013/12/02/romania-stalls-plans-to-dig-up-ancient-roman-gold-mine/
-----
Latest reviews from BMCR:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/recent.html

Visit our blog:

http://rogueclassicism.com/
================================================================
EUROPE AND THE UK (+ Ireland)
================================================================
Bronze Age quarry from Spain:

http://www.euroweeklynews.com/news/axarquia-malaga-east/item/117516

Some interesting Neolithic wooden tridents are on display in Carlisle:

http://www.thewestmorlandgazette.co.uk/news/10851211.Cumbrian_museum_puts_Neolithic_wooden_tridents_on_display/?ref=rss
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/neolithic-wooden-tridents-mystery-artefacts

Remains of a 13th century Dominican church from West Pomerania:

http://www.naukawpolsce.pap.pl/en/news/news,398230,fragments-of-13th-century-church-discovered-in-kamien-pomorski.html

15th century wall paintings from a Welsh church:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25214557

What the East Oxford Project has found of late:

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/10850190.Archaeology_dig_unearths_city_s_past/?ref=mmsp
http://www.thisisoxfordshire.co.uk/news/10850190.Archaeology_dig_unearths_city_s_past/?ref=rss

I’m sure many an archaeologist has expressed a similar sentiment on occasion:

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Huntingdon-St-Ives-St-Neots/Frustrated-St-Neots-archaeologists-message-from-1961-I-hate-bones-20131205130446.htm

Rethinking the spot where Harold met his demise:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-25191208
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/10486441/Battle-of-Hastings-fought-at-site-of-mini-roundabout.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2516141/Battle-Hastings-King-Harolds-stand--A2100-roundabout.html
http://www.hastingsobserver.co.uk/news/local/time-team-s-new-theory-on-1066-battle-site-1-5722166
http://metro.co.uk/2013/12/01/battle-of-hastings-could-have-taken-place-on-site-now-occupied-by-roundabout-4209230/

Pricey rescue dig in Ireland:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-25197874
http://www.u.tv/News/Archaeological-finds-cost-taxpayer-17m/9424b153-e0aa-4ea4-9caa-f5e33888cd8c
http://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/regional/archaeological-finds-cost-17m-1-5723941
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/archaeological-finds-cost-17m-29803323.html
http://www.tyronetimes.co.uk/news/tyrone-news/archaeological-finds-on-dungannon-to-ballygawley-road-upgrade-cost-taxpayer-1-5723870

Not sure where to put this one … the oldest reference to a Bohemian king on a coin from
Acre:

http://www.timesofisrael.com/oldest-reference-to-bohemian-king-found-in-acre/

I think we hear of the sonic properties of Stonehenge every five years or so:

http://www.sci-news.com/archaeology/science-sonic-properties-stonehenge-bluestones-01589.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2515159/Why-Stonehenge-prehistoric-centre-rock-music-Stones-sound-like-bells-drums-gongs-played.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
http://www.express.co.uk/news/weird/446535/Stonehenge-was-the-prehistoric-centre-for-rock-music
cf http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/1751696X.2013.860278#.UqDYN-IyHZl (full text)

Recreating the seige of Heidelberg Castle:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/legendary-ruins-of-heidelberg-castle-reanimated-in-museum-film-a-936111.html

Plans to recreate an Iron Age settlement:

http://www.northwalespioneer.co.uk/news/128680/plans-for-iron-age-roundhouses-outside-rowen.aspx

A Victorian (Scotland) ordinance survey name database is online:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-25238563

Nice APOD of comet lovejoy and the Morby ruins:

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap131204.html

Theft of a 16th century Bible:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-25186438

Climate change is threatening sites in Wales:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/climate-change-threat-to-heritage-6363779

Nominees for some UK archaeology awards:

http://www.archaeology.co.uk/awards/archaeology-awards-2014/research-project-of-the-year-2014-nominees.htm
http://www.archaeology.co.uk/awards/archaeology-awards-2014/rescue-dig-of-the-year-2014-nominees.htm

More on technology and reading 15th century ‘unreadable’ scrolls:

http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/12/03/3d-x-ray-technology-to-reveal-secrets-unreadable-15th-century-scroll/

More on the mass grave at Durham Cathedral:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/breakingnews/offbeat/mass-grave-found-near-cathedral-29795255.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-25166771
http://www.culture24.org.uk/history-and-heritage/archaeology/art459916

-----
Archaeology in Europe Blog:

http://archaeology-in-europe.blogspot.com/

================================================================
ASIA AND THE SOUTH PACIFIC
================================================================
Interesting conclusions from cave digs in Viet Nam:

http://www.asianewsnet.net/news-54577.html

9000 years b.p. bone flutes from Jiahu:

http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/9000-year-old-music-alcohol-powerful-mix

A 4500 years b.p. city from China’s Anhui province:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2013-12/04/c_125808670.htm
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/4-500-year-old-city-discovered-in-china-454598
http://www.menafn.com/1093735334/A-4500YearOld-City-Found-in-East-China?src=RSS

A 4000 years b.p. mass grave from Shaanxi with evidence of female human sacrifice:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-25187247
http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/skulls-in-china-reveal-mass-female-sacrifice-131203.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/12/02/skulls-found-in-mass-grave-in-china-reveal-ancient-female-sacrifice/
http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=11&int_new=66638
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2516756/Victims-ancient-sacrifice-4-000-year-old-mass-grave-containing-skulls-80-young-women-discovered-China.html?ITO=bookmark-chromeext&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=bookmark-chromeext
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/20119793/skull-find-shows-women-were-sacrificed-in-ancient-china/
http://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking_news_detail.asp?id=43849&icid=a&d_str=
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/526746/20131202/female-skulls-discovered-neolithic-city-china-human.htm

Remains of a 1400 years b.p. Buddhist temple from Shaanxi:

http://news.oneindia.in/international/1400-year-old-buddhist-temple-discovered-in-china-1355275.html
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/1400-year-old-buddhist-temple-discovered-in-china-456043

Feature on China’s Jingxing road:

http://english.cri.cn/11354/2013/11/27/2743s800716.htm

Interesting feature on the terracotta warriors:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2516445/Terracotta-Army-awesome-fighting-machine-weapons-powerful-kill-enemy-single-arrow.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490

Pondering how to preserve what’s left of a Lembah Bujang temple site:

http://www.themalaymailonline.com/malaysia/article/after-uproar-kedah-scrambles-bid-to-salvage-lembah-bujang-ruins

… and possible similar cases:

http://my.news.yahoo.com/guar-kepah-last-country-stone-age-sites-225600494.html

Here’s the backstory:

http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2013/12/03/Lembah-Bujang-Kedah-MB-gazette-heritage.aspx
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2013/12/04/Candi-destruction-shocks-former-Kedah-MB-Osman-How-did-state-land-end-up-in-private-hands.aspx
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2013/12/03/Work-at-ancient-site-halted-Invoke-National-Heritage-Act-to-save-the-temple-says-Nazri.aspx
http://www.thestar.com.my/News/Nation/2013/12/01/bujang-valley-candi-demolished.aspx

Wondering about the fate of some Gupta era gold coins:

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/gupta-era-gold-coins-found-in-bengal-6-months-on-asi-yet-to-act/1202039/
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/-/1202087/
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/-/1202039/

Feature on the tomb that inspired the Taj Mahal:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/12/01/247678279/restoring-the-mausoleum-that-helped-inspire-the-taj-majal

Plans to start digging at Talakkaddu:

http://www.deccanchronicle.com/131204/news-current-affairs/article/talakkadu-gears-excavation-ancient-temple

Inscription from a cave roof in Sri Lanka:

http://www.dailynews.lk/features/inscribed-story-katugahagalge-vihara

Security concerns for monuments in India:

http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Hyderabad/poor-security-imperils-monuments/article5422552.ece
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-preservation-of-heritage-a-national-responsibility-omar-abdullah-1930753

… and preservation concerns for temples in Bangladesh:

http://www.thedailystar.net/beta2/news/kalashkathi-temples-falling-apart-for-want-of-attention/

OpEd on archaeology and Philippine-Chinese territorial disputes:

http://opinion.inquirer.net/66795/archaeology-and-our-territorial-dispute-with-china?ModPagespeed=noscript

cf (and see the Nanhai 1 thing below too): http://www.malaya.com.ph/business-news/opinion/wsj-china%E2%80%99s-archeological-ambitions

China wants the UK to return some looted boxer rebellion relics:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2518111/China-demand-David-Cameron-return-Boxer-Rebellion-artefacts.html

More on archaeological evidence for Buddha’s birth:

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/smartnews/2013/11/archeologists-think-theyve-unearthed-the-buddhas-nativity-site/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/11/26/boffins_uncover_buddhisms_oldest_shrine/
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/01/buddha-birth-archaeology-nepal-durham
http://www.world-science.net/othernews/131125_lumbini.htm
http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/oldest-buddhist-shrine-found-at-buddha-s-birthplace-1.2445620
http://world.time.com/2013/11/26/archaeologists-discover-earliest-buddhist-shrine/

More on the Nanhai 1:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=11&int_new=66640

-----
East Asian Archaeology:

http://eastasiablog.wordpress.com/

Southeast Asian Archaeology Newsblog:

http://www.southeastasianarchaeology.com/

New Zealand Archaeology eNews:

http://www.nzarchaeology.org/netsubnews.htm
================================================================
NORTH AMERICA
================================================================
Very interesting  Plains site from Oklahoma with evidence of a moat and ‘underground
apartments’:

http://westerndigs.org/plains-indian-fortress-with-moat-underground-apartments-unearthed-in-oklahoma/

Looking for ‘prehistoric’ sites from North Carolina:

http://phys.org/news/2013-12-prehistoric-rural.html
http://news.wfu.edu/2013/12/02/life-in-prehistoric-rural-communities/

Archaeologists may have found the oldest Spanish mission in San Antonio:

http://www.hispanicallyspeakingnews.com/latino-daily-news/details/archaeologist-may-have-discovered-earliest-spanish-mission-alamos-original-/28207/

Interesting finds from Dutch Gap:

http://phys.org/news/2013-12-evolution-civil-war-history-entwine.html

A Native American site found during pipeline construction in Kentucky has been
looted:

http://www.kentucky.com/2013/12/04/2969091/burial-site-uncovered-by-pipeline.html
http://www.courierpress.com/news/2013/dec/04/burial-site-uncovered-by-kentucky-pipeline/

On the sex trade in Civil War Nashville:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/the-nashville-experiment/

The ‘prehistory’ of the US dollar:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25119865

Slave artifacts from a Georgia highway construction site:

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2013/dec/02/slave-artifacts-found-at-georgia-highway-site/
http://www.tribtown.com/view/story/a59e975219104c9489181dfd5022b033/GA--Slave-Relics-Unearthed
http://newsok.com/slave-artifacts-found-at-ga.-highway-project-site/article/feed/623178
http://www.postandcourier.com/article/20131201/PC16/131209934/1005/slave-relics-and-other-artifacts-discovered-on-site-of-future-georgia-highway-project
http://www.tribtown.com/view/story/a59e975219104c9489181dfd5022b033/GA--Slave-Relics-Unearthed

Interesting feature on photographing Lincoln(s):

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/02/the-interminable-everlasting-lincolns-part-1/?hp&rref=opinion

… related:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/04/the-interminable-everlasting-lincolns-part-3/?hp&rref=opinion

Pondering what makes a building ‘historic’:

http://www.metropulse.com/news/2013/jan/16/whats-historicand-who-says-nine-practical-reasons/?cid=Facebook

================================================================
CENTRAL AND SOUTH AMERICA
================================================================
Chili pepper residue in preClassic Maya pots:

http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/chilli-pepper-residue-detected-in-maya-preclassic-pots

The US returned a Mayan relief panel from Guatemala:

http://www.hispanicallyspeakingnews.com/latino-daily-news/details/guatemala-recovers-mayan-artifact-dating-from-250-b.c.-from-u.s/28198/
http://latino.foxnews.com/2013/11/29/mayan-panel-more-than-thousand-years-old-repatriated-by-guatemala/
http://www.laht.com/article.asp?ArticleId=1242200&CategoryId=23558
http://www.lostiempos.com/diario/actualidad/vida-y-futuro/20131129/guatemala-recupera-pane

(Message over 64 KB, truncated)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92128 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-09
Subject: Plebeian Oaths of Office Reminder
Caninus plebibus salutem dicit:

It is now December 10, 2766 AUC in Rome. The following citizens may offer their oaths and assume their new offices at any time:

Tribunus Plebis

Aedilis Plebis

The second Aedilis Plebis seat still needs to be determined. I expect either Titus Domitius Draco or Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus will assume the second seat by the end of the week. 

Facite valeatis!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92129 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-09
Subject: Re: Plebeian Oaths of Office Reminder
Salve Canine!

Thank you for the reminder.  In a separate communication, I am submitting my oath of office.  I believe it is in the proper form.  Please verify that all is in order.

Vale!
C. Claudius Quadratus


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com; NovaRoma-Announce@yahoogroups.com; BackAlley@yahoogroups.com
From: caninus@...
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 18:22:50 -0700
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Plebeian Oaths of Office Reminder

 

Caninus plebibus salutem dicit:

It is now December 10, 2766 AUC in Rome. The following citizens may offer their oaths and assume their new offices at any time:

Tribunus Plebis

Aedilis Plebis

The second Aedilis Plebis seat still needs to be determined. I expect either Titus Domitius Draco or Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus will assume the second seat by the end of the week. 

Facite valeatis!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92130 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-09
Subject: Oath of Office - C. Claudius Quadratus - Tribunus Plebis
Salvete!

Pursuant to the Lex Iunia de jusiurando, on this date, December 10, 2013 (2766 AUC), I hereby take the following oath of office:

I, Charles Aronowitz, Gaius Claudius Quadratus, do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Charles Aronowitz, Gaius Claudius Quadratus, swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Charles Aronowitz, Gaius Claudius Quadratus, swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Charles Aronowitz, Gaius Claudius Quadratus, swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Charles Aronowitz, Gaius Claudius Quadratus, further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Tribune of the Plebs to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Tribune of the Plebs and all the right, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Charles Aronowitz, Gaius Claudius Quadratus
Provincia Canada Citerior

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92131 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-09
Subject: Oath of Office - L. Ulpius Atellus
Salvete Omnes,

Pursuant to the Lex Iunia de jusiurando, on this date, December 10, 2013 (2766 AUC), I hereby take the following oath of office:

I, Richard Dix, Lucius Ulpius Atellus, do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Richard Dix, Lucius Ulpius Atellus, swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Richard Dix, Lucius Ulpius Atellus, swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Richard Dix, Lucius Ulpius Atellus, swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Richard Dix, Lucius Ulpius Atellus, further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Tribune of the Plebs to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Tribune of the Plebs and all the right, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.


Valete
L. Ulpius Atellus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92132 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-10
Subject: Re: Roman Virtues: Humanitas
Salvete Omnes,

I apologize for the short post.  

When I think of Humanitas, one person who always comes up in my mind. Our very own  Pompeia Minucia Strabo. Newer citizens such as Quadratus and of course Senator Crispus as well...

Cornelia mother of the Gracchi could also be placed in said category.  Again Marcus Aurelius ...  And that is just off the top of my head.

Valete bene,
Aeternia






Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92133 From: Jiri Rys Date: 2013-12-10
Subject: Oath of Office - Aedilis Plebis T. Iulius Nerva
Tiberius Iulius Nerva Quiritibus et Omnibus SPD.

I, Jiří Rys, Tiberius Iulius Nerva, do hereby solemnly swear
to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best
interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Tiberius Iulius Nerva, swear to honor
the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the
Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Tiberius Iulius Nerva, swear to uphold and defend the Religio
Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a
way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Tiberius Iulius Nerva, swear to protect and defend the Constitution
of Nova Roma.

I, Tiberius Iulius Nerva, further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of Aedilis Plebis to the best of my
abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods
and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the position of Aedilis Plebis and all the rights, privileges,
obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

Optime valete!

Tiberius Iulius Nerva
Pannonia

Vivat Nova Roma!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92134 From: Quintus Caecilius Metellus Date: 2013-12-10
Subject: Iusiurandum Tribuni Plebis (Oath of Tribune of the Plebs)
Quintus Caecilius Metellus to the Citizens of Nova Roma sends greetings.

As required by law, what follows is my oath of office as tribunus
plebis [tribune of the plebs].

Ego, Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus (Sean Aleksandr
Normandy), hac re ipsa decus Nouae Romae me defensurum, et semper pro
populo senatuque Nouae Romae acturum esse sollemniter iuro.

Ego, Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus (Sean Aleksandr
Normandy), officio tribuni plebis Nouae Romae accepto, deos deasque
Romae in omnibus meae uitae publicae temporibus culturum, et uirtutes
Romanas publica priuataque uita me persecuturum esse iuro.

Ego, Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus (Sean Aleksandr
Normandy), cultui Nouae Romae publico me fauturum et eam defensurum,
et numquam contra eius statum publicum me acturum esse, ne quid
detrimenti capiat iuro.

Ego, Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus (Sean Aleksandr
Normandy) officiis muneris tribuni plebis me quam optime functurum
esse praeterea iuro.

Meo ciuis Nouae Romae honore, coram deis deabusque populi Romani, et
uoluntate fauoreque eorum, ego munus tribuni plebis una cum iuribus,
priuilegiis, muneribus et officiis comitantibus accipio.

[Translation]

I, Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus (Sean Aleksandr
Normandy), do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma,
and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate
of Nova Roma.

As a magistrate of Nova Roma, I, Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius
Postumianus (Sean Aleksandr Normandy), swear to honor the Gods and
Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman
Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus (Sean Aleksandr
Normandy), swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State
Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would
threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus (Sean Aleksandr
Normandy), swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus (Sean Aleksandr
Normandy), further swear to fulfill the obligations and
responsibilities of the office of tribune of the plebs to the best of
my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods
and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I
accept the position of tribune of the plebs and all the rights,
privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.

May the Gods forever smile upon Rome!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92135 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-10
Subject: Thank you
M. Pompeius Caninus Quiritibus salutem plurimam dicit:

It has been my great and sincere pleasure to serve the res publica through the office of tribunus plebis over the past year. The consul gave me the opportunity to work on his staff and to speak freely in the Senate, which allowed me to represent plebeian interests in some of the reforms made in 2766 AUC. I hope that our new tribuni plebis will have similar opportunities in 2767 AUC. I thank you all for the trust you placed in me and I look forward to serving Nova Roma again in the coming year. 

Facite valeatis!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92136 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-11
Subject: Re: Thank you
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia M. Caninio Quiritibusque S.P.D.

Thank you Caninus for your service this year as Tribune and to your colleagues as well.

Good luck on future endeavors amice.

Valete Optime,
Aeternia



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92137 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-11
Subject: Kindle news!!!!
First man in Rome series is on kindle!!!  Finally!!

They will be released on 12/17.

First man in Rome $5.82
Grass crown $5.82
Fortunes favorite 5.82
Caesars women 5.82
Caesar 5.82
October horse 10.99
Anthony and cleopatra 11.93

Vale,

Sulla


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92138 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-11
Subject: Re: Kindle news!!!!
Salvete!

"The First Man in Rome" was the book that sparked my interest in Roman history.

It should be possible to get used hard-cover print copies for less than these kindle prices.  Particularly valuable is the almost 100-page glossary at the back of the book, which is probably easier to use in a print copy.

Valete!
Quadratus


To: backalley@yahoogroups.com; nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
From: robert.woolwine@...
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 10:48:04 -0700
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Kindle news!!!!

 

First man in Rome series is on kindle!!!  Finally!!

They will be released on 12/17.

First man in Rome $5.82
Grass crown $5.82
Fortunes favorite 5.82
Caesars women 5.82
Caesar 5.82
October horse 10.99
Anthony and cleopatra 11.93

Vale,

Sulla


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92139 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-11
Subject: Re: Kindle news!!!!
I have them on hard copy.  I'm converting most of my books to Kindle for convenience.   


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: charlesaronowitz@...
Date:12/11/2013 11:01 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Kindle news!!!!

 

Salvete!

"The First Man in Rome" was the book that sparked my interest in Roman history.

It should be possible to get used hard-cover print copies for less than these kindle prices.  Particularly valuable is the almost 100-page glossary at the back of the book, which is probably easier to use in a print copy.

Valete!
Quadratus


To: backalley@yahoogroups.com; nova-roma@yahoogroups.com
From: robert.woolwine@...
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2013 10:48:04 -0700
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Kindle news!!!!

 

First man in Rome series is on kindle!!!  Finally!!

They will be released on 12/17.

First man in Rome $5.82
Grass crown $5.82
Fortunes favorite 5.82
Caesars women 5.82
Caesar 5.82
October horse 10.99
Anthony and cleopatra 11.93

Vale,

Sulla


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92140 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-11
Subject: Digging History - The First 5 Episodes on Rome
Caninus omnibus sal.

New five part series on Rome from the American Institute for Roman Culture available on YouTube:

Bene valete!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92141 From: qfabiusmaximus Date: 2013-12-11
Subject: Re: Kindle news!!!!
I bought the entire series for 1.00 each the S&H was more.  You have to remember however, that a lot of her info in early novels is based on sheer guesswork.  Educated guesses to be sure, but still speculation.  That is not true on her later novels.  She was using Caesar and Suetonius as references.
 
Q. Fabius Maximus   
 
In a message dated 12/11/2013 10:01:33 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, charlesaronowitz@... writes:
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92142 From: shoshana hathaway Date: 2013-12-11
Subject: OT: heads up about Facebook chat issue
Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

I know this is OT, so if you don't use Facebook, please just delete now. I
do know that many of us do, so I wanted to alert you to something that
happened to me very recently. I got a chat request from a person using the
name of one of my FB friends, so, naturally, I replied. However, the
conversation was *very* strange, and the individual kept trying to tell me
that we had both "won" a Federal grant of some sort and that UPS would be
bringing me a check. It never got to sinking the hook, though, because the
idiot who tried this chose to pretend to be my college roommate, who has
remained a friend. First mistake; and 2nd, what this person was telling me
was blatantly absurd. The Federal Government does *not* hand deliver checks
via UPS, nor, to my knowledge are there grants to "support the community".
When I started questioning the person rather sharply, the chat magically
ended, so I reported it as SPAM, and that was that.

Just be aware that games are being played, so if you get a chat request from
a friend that doesn't sound like the person you know, it probably isn't, and
if it sounds like that "friend" is trying to sell you something, they
probably are.

Now, back to your regular Roman programming!

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca (who is, as usual, probably the last one to know, but, just
in case ...

Please check out my new blog at jottingsofanomnivorousreader.blogspot.com!

This list is for everyone who loves to read, but especially those who use
special formats, such as Braille or audio. We enjoy books, talking about
them, and one another. Come join us!
ReadingOurWay-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92143 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-12
Subject: Re: Chariot races for Consualia 2766 auc
Caninus omnibus in foro SPD.

Your chances of winning a t-shirt are excellent!

I have received a handful of entries for the Consuales ludi races on Sunday. I still need many more entries so please consider sending a few entries to me. The winner of each race will win a t-shirt. 

Chariot race:
Publius Annaeus Constantinus Placidus
Gaia Maria Caeca
Statia Cornelia Aeternia


Mule race:
Gaia Maria Caeca
Aulus Iulius Paterculus


Sunday, December 15, is Consualia. I will be sponsoring ludi events to celebrate this festival. This will be a traditional chariot race and a mule-pulled chariot race.

Anyone who wishes to participate in the Chariot Race must send an entry
request to M. Pompeius Caninus at caninus@... before 3:00 PM Rome
time on Saturday, December 14, 2013. Multiple entries are permitted - up
to three per person - for the traditional chariot race. Only one entry
person is permitted for the mule chariot race. Each entry should bear
the subject header "Chariot Race" for the traditional race or "Mule
Race" for the mule race and include the following information:
1. Your name in Nova Roma
2. The name of your chariot
3. The name of your driver
4. The tactic you intend to use for the Quarterfinals and Semifinals
races
5. The tactic you intend to use for the Final race.
6. The name of your FACTIO or team: Russata, Albata, Veneta, Præsina

Six (6) race tactics are possible:
A. To hurry in the last laps
B. To pass the curves closely the "spina" of the circus.
C. To support a constant pace
D. To lash the rivals
E. To push the rivals to the wall of the circus
F. To hurry in the straight lines

Send your entries to caninus@... and not to the public fora.

Please feel free to add all the details you can about the background and
description of your entries, especially the driver and the chariot
itself - the more details I have, the better will the race accounts turn
out to be. Dirty actions are NOT allowed.

The winner of the final will receive a prize.



Bene valete!
 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92144 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-12
Subject: Updated election results for comitia populi tributa and comitia pleb
Caninus quiritibus in foro SPD.

You can see how the tribes have voted in both the Comitia Populi Tributa and the Comitia Plebis Tributa by visiting http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Election_MMDCCLXVI_(Nova_Roma) 

Bene valete!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92145 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-12
Subject: Chariot race ...
Salvete Omnes!

You know Albata is going to win both races! Perhaps I should just .send my
tee shirt size to Caninus now, don't ya'll think?

Valete bene
Caeca, just wondering *which* of her star chariots is going to win, and
whether Albata will take 1st *and* 2nd place. Semper Albata! Albata
Victoria!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92146 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-12
Subject: Official Summons of the Comitia Centuriata
Avete Omnes,

It is my sincere pleasure to summon the Comitia Centuriata, for the last time of my Consulship.  This summons will see the election of next year's magistrates and the consideration of 1 Constitutional Change and 1 Lex.

I would like to take the moment and thank you all for your consideration and participation in advance.

Presiding Magistrate:  Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, Consul

Schedule:  

9 pm AZ Time - December 12th - Contio Opens (Debate period opens)
9 pm AZ Time - December 18th - Contio Closes (Debate Period Ends)
9 pm AZ Time - December 19th - Voting Period begins
9:01 pm AZ Time - December 26th - Voting Period Closes
9 pm AZ Time - December 27th - Contio Closes

Agenda:

For Censor:

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, Date of Citizenship:  March 1st 1998.  This candidate meets the requirements for the office of Censorship.  This candidate is running for Censor.

For Consul:

Caius Aemilius Crassus - Date of Citizenship:  2/15/2007.  This candidate meets the requirements for the office of Consul.  This candidate is running for Consul.

Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia, Date of Citizenship:  1/15/2000.  This candidate meets the requirements for the office of Consul.  This candidate is running for Consul.

For Praetor:

Marcus Pompeius Caninus - Date of Citizenship:  11/24/2010.  This candidate meets the requirements for the Office of Praetor.  This candidate is running for Praetor.

Publius Annaeus Constantinus Placidus - Date of Citizenship:  6/1/2003.  This candidate meets the requirements for the office of Praetor.  This candidate is running for Praetor.

CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE.

The change will affection Section IV A of the Constitution of Nova Roma, if passed by the People and ratified by the Senate of Nova Roma.

The current reading is this:

Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy. Should one of theordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections of the ordinarii shall take place no later than December 15th, and newly-elected officials shall assume their offices on January 1st. Exceptions to these provisions regarding elections may be found in section V of this Constitution. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:

The new change will be as follows:

Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy. Should one of theordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections of the ordinarii shall take place every civil year no later than November 20th for the plebeian offices and no later than December 15th for the curule magistracies and other elected officials. Newly elected tribuni plebis and aediles plebis shall enter their offices on December 10, all other officials shall enter their offices on the following Kalends of January. Anyone currently serving in an elected or appointed office may complete their term and enter their newly elected office on or after January 1. Exceptions to these provisions regarding elections may be found in section V of this Constitution. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:

PROPOSED Lex:  Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda (Proposed name)

I.        For the purpose of section V of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda, the “prevailing legal procedures” shall be defined as those procedures contained within a Senatus consultum, which at the time of the enactment of this lex is the “Senatus consultum on the reapplication process for citizenship”, passed 2765 A.U.C. A senatus consultum issued after the enactment of this lex may amend, or enhance, the “prevailing legal procedures”. 

II.                  Section II.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“Citizenship from Nova Roma may be voluntarily relinquished by either:

1.     Notification of the Censors. Submission to the Censors by the citizen intending to resign of an intention to resign citizenship should be made in writing with the intention clearly stated, and may be transmitted in writing via any available means.

2.     A statement of intent to resign citizenship made in writing by the citizen intending to resign in a public communications forum, list, board or venue, electronic or otherwise, whether that forum is owned or controlled by Nova Roma or not, to which the censors or another magistrate (as described in section IV.A or section IV.B of the Nova Roman Constitution) or a provincial governor of Nova Roma has access. Such intent may also be made by email to a magistrate or provincial governor. The magistrate or governor shall forward verbatim the text of the resignation and provide any electronic hyperlink to such a statement or a forwarded copy of the email concerned.  The censors shall exercise collegiate judgment in whether to accept any such communication at section II.A.2 as intent to resign citizenship.”   

III.                Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as a Socius. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma may also be treated as a Socius for the purposes of this lex. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a Socius after failing to register with one census. Any Socius or former Citizen in a Socius status who fails to register with a census or who fails to otherwise reestablish citizenship may, at the discretion of the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.”

IV.   Section IV of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a subsection C to read:

“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated as Socius and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen, devoid of any and all legal rights within Nova Roma.”

V.                  Section VI.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“When a former Citizen applies for reinstatement of citizenship, a waiting period of ninety (90) days must precede the reestablishment of citizenship. A former Citizen whose citizenship was removed by the process of banishment is not entitled to a restoration of any titles, honors and/or effects of past public offices (including census points). In the case of any other Citizen who was Socius the restoration of any titles, honors and/or effects of past public offices (excluding census points) shall be at the discretion of, the censors acting in a collegiate manner. The restoration of census points for a person who was Socius shall be determined by the process in section XXXX of this lex.”

VI.                Section VI.C of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“Any census points that are due under the terms of this lex to a returning Citizen must be restored at the time that citizenship is legally re-established by the censors.”

VII.              Section VIII.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“All rights and privileges of citizenship are restored to a Citizen at the time his or her citizenship is re-established, subject to any legal prohibitions, cancellations, or any other such restriction, that may exist at the time of re-establishment of citizenship.”

VIII.        The Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a section IX. ((Census Point loss)) which shall have the following sub-sections:

“A. Voluntary resignations shall be classified as follows:

1.  Personal: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation of a non-Nova Roman nature

2.  NR dispute: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation where a conflict, conducted in public or private, has occurred over matters that relate to Nova Roman matters, between the Citizen resigning Citizenship and another Citizen(s), or a former Citizen(s) or another person(s)

3.       No reason: No reason is provided in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately

4.  No warning: The Citizen resigning, while holding office, whether elected or appointed, gave no prior notice of an intent to resign, thus preventing alternative solutions to resignation being discussed

5.  2nd resignation: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship twice.

6.  3rd plus resignations: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship three or more times.

B. A Citizen who has voluntarily resigned shall be classed as either “citizen” (not holding elected or appointed office at the time of resignation), “minor official” (holding an office at the time of resignation, whether that office was elected or by appointment, that was not censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor) or “major official” (held office at the time of resignation as censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor).

C. Upon restoration of Citizenship, except in cases where the returning Citizen is returning from a period of legal banishment that has now expired, the amount of Citizen Points (CP) that must be returned to the Citizen is based on the table below “at VIII.D”, Where the amount of loss is listed as a percentage, that percentage must be deducted from the CP held by the Citizen at the time of his/her resignation, or the fixed amount of actual CP that must be deducted. After calculation of a percentage loss, the result of CP if less than a whole number shall be rounded down. If after deduction of a fixed amount of CP this results in a negative number, that shall be recorded in the Citizen’s Album Civium. The censors shall administer the application of the CP deductions in the table below.

D. Census Point loss table

        Personal    NR Dispute    No reason    No warning    2nd resignation    3rd plus resignation

Citizen                  20% loss   35% loss           50% loss      N/A                   100% loss           Set CP to -100

Minor official    30% loss    60% loss          80% loss      +20% loss        2x % loss            Set CP to -250

Major official     50% loss   80% loss          100% loss    2x % loss          3x % loss           Set CP to -500

Notes:                                                                                                                                                                                  

1) 2nd resignation of a person deemed at the time of resignation does not require that he/she was also an official on 1st resignation.                                                                                                       

2) Results of CP loss may place the resigned citizen in negative balance, which he/she will have to work off balance before CP can be earned.                                                                                                           

3) Tax rates will be addressed through Senatus consultum (tax is the prerogative of the Senate) but persons who have resigned and returned will be required to pay the Nova Roman tax for the class they were in prior to CP loss. 

4) CP loss will be calculated at the time of resignation, not upon returning, and amount of loss noted on citizen's Album page together with the class and century they were in at time of resignation.

5) The table is read left to right, so the censors shall first determine which applies; Personal, NR dispute or No reason. Then they shall determine if warning was not given and apply the enhanced penalties indicated, and finally evaluate if the citizen has resigned two, or three (or more) times and apply those penalty enhancers.

6) +20% means that this 20% is added to either, 30%, 60% or 80% depending on which applies to the Citizen.

7) 2x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of two; 3x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of three.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92147 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-12
Subject: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Avete Omnes,

The purpose of this lex is pretty straight forward.  While Nova Roma might desire former citizens to return to Nova Roma.  There are consequences for those citizens who might return, in particular when those who have left Nova Roma were in a position of authority and leaders of the community, holding offices when they chose to make their exit.  From Nova Roma's very first year Nova Roma has suffered from this recurring issue and hopefully realizing that there are consequences from using this tactic, our citizens might find a more moderate means than just up and leaving.  This action, especially by the leaders of the organization literally puts the organization in jeopardy given our legal requirements, financial requirements and our obligations to serve you, the citizens of Nova Roma.  Please review the proposed law and if you have any questions or comments I would very much like to hear them.

______

PROPOSED Lex:  Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda (Proposed name)

I.        For the purpose of section V of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda, the “prevailing legal procedures” shall be defined as those procedures contained within a Senatus consultum, which at the time of the enactment of this lex is the “Senatus consultum on the reapplication process for citizenship”, passed 2765 A.U.C. A senatus consultum issued after the enactment of this lex may amend, or enhance, the “prevailing legal procedures”. 

II.                  Section II.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“Citizenship from Nova Roma may be voluntarily relinquished by either:

1.     Notification of the Censors. Submission to the Censors by the citizen intending to resign of an intention to resign citizenship should be made in writing with the intention clearly stated, and may be transmitted in writing via any available means.

2.     A statement of intent to resign citizenship made in writing by the citizen intending to resign in a public communications forum, list, board or venue, electronic or otherwise, whether that forum is owned or controlled by Nova Roma or not, to which the censors or another magistrate (as described in section IV.A or section IV.B of the Nova Roman Constitution) or a provincial governor of Nova Roma has access. Such intent may also be made by email to a magistrate or provincial governor. The magistrate or governor shall forward verbatim the text of the resignation and provide any electronic hyperlink to such a statement or a forwarded copy of the email concerned.  The censors shall exercise collegiate judgment in whether to accept any such communication at section II.A.2 as intent to resign citizenship.”   

III.                Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as a Socius. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma may also be treated as a Socius for the purposes of this lex. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a Socius after failing to register with one census. Any Socius or former Citizen in a Socius status who fails to register with a census or who fails to otherwise reestablish citizenship may, at the discretion of the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.”

IV.   Section IV of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a subsection C to read:

“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated as Socius and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen, devoid of any and all legal rights within Nova Roma.”

V.                  Section VI.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“When a former Citizen applies for reinstatement of citizenship, a waiting period of ninety (90) days must precede the reestablishment of citizenship. A former Citizen whose citizenship was removed by the process of banishment is not entitled to a restoration of any titles, honors and/or effects of past public offices (including census points). In the case of any other Citizen who was Socius the restoration of any titles, honors and/or effects of past public offices (excluding census points) shall be at the discretion of, the censors acting in a collegiate manner. The restoration of census points for a person who was Socius shall be determined by the process in section XXXX of this lex.”

VI.                Section VI.C of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“Any census points that are due under the terms of this lex to a returning Citizen must be restored at the time that citizenship is legally re-established by the censors.”

VII.              Section VIII.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“All rights and privileges of citizenship are restored to a Citizen at the time his or her citizenship is re-established, subject to any legal prohibitions, cancellations, or any other such restriction, that may exist at the time of re-establishment of citizenship.”

VIII.        The Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a section IX. ((Census Point loss)) which shall have the following sub-sections:

“A. Voluntary resignations shall be classified as follows:

1.  Personal: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation of a non-Nova Roman nature

2.  NR dispute: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation where a conflict, conducted in public or private, has occurred over matters that relate to Nova Roman matters, between the Citizen resigning Citizenship and another Citizen(s), or a former Citizen(s) or another person(s)

3.       No reason: No reason is provided in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately

4.  No warning: The Citizen resigning, while holding office, whether elected or appointed, gave no prior notice of an intent to resign, thus preventing alternative solutions to resignation being discussed

5.  2nd resignation: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship twice.

6.  3rd plus resignations: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship three or more times.

B. A Citizen who has voluntarily resigned shall be classed as either “citizen” (not holding elected or appointed office at the time of resignation), “minor official” (holding an office at the time of resignation, whether that office was elected or by appointment, that was not censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor) or “major official” (held office at the time of resignation as censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor).

C. Upon restoration of Citizenship, except in cases where the returning Citizen is returning from a period of legal banishment that has now expired, the amount of Citizen Points (CP) that must be returned to the Citizen is based on the table below “at VIII.D”, Where the amount of loss is listed as a percentage, that percentage must be deducted from the CP held by the Citizen at the time of his/her resignation, or the fixed amount of actual CP that must be deducted. After calculation of a percentage loss, the result of CP if less than a whole number shall be rounded down. If after deduction of a fixed amount of CP this results in a negative number, that shall be recorded in the Citizen’s Album Civium. The censors shall administer the application of the CP deductions in the table below.

D. Census Point loss table

        Personal    NR Dispute    No reason    No warning    2nd resignation    3rd plus resignation

Citizen                  20% loss   35% loss           50% loss      N/A                   100% loss           Set CP to -100

Minor official    30% loss    60% loss          80% loss      +20% loss        2x % loss            Set CP to -250

Major official     50% loss   80% loss          100% loss    2x % loss          3x % loss           Set CP to -500

Notes:                                                                                                                                                                                  

1) 2nd resignation of a person deemed at the time of resignation does not require that he/she was also an official on 1st resignation.                                                                                                       

2) Results of CP loss may place the resigned citizen in negative balance, which he/she will have to work off balance before CP can be earned.                                                                                                           

3) Tax rates will be addressed through Senatus consultum (tax is the prerogative of the Senate) but persons who have resigned and returned will be required to pay the Nova Roman tax for the class they were in prior to CP loss. 

4) CP loss will be calculated at the time of resignation, not upon returning, and amount of loss noted on citizen's Album page together with the class and century they were in at time of resignation.

5) The table is read left to right, so the censors shall first determine which applies; Personal, NR dispute or No reason. Then they shall determine if warning was not given and apply the enhanced penalties indicated, and finally evaluate if the citizen has resigned two, or three (or more) times and apply those penalty enhancers.

6) +20% means that this 20% is added to either, 30%, 60% or 80% depending on which applies to the Citizen.

7) 2x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of two; 3x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of three.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92148 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-12
Subject: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
Avete Omnes,

This recommendation was put forth by former Tribune of the Plebs. M. Pompeius Caninus.  The reason, upon its mention is clear.  The Plebeian magistrates have always assumed office in December while the remaining Ordinarii magistrates assume office in January.  All this change does is to solidify this into the Constitution and spells out with complete clarity the latest time outgoing magistrates must start the election process (though of course there is nothing to prevent them from starting the elections sooner if they so wish).  

Below is the proposed change:

CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE.

The change will affection Section IV A of the Constitution of Nova Roma, if passed by the People and ratified by the Senate of Nova Roma.

The current reading is this:

Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy. Should one of theordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections of the ordinarii shall take place no later than December 15th, and newly-elected officials shall assume their offices on January 1st. Exceptions to these provisions regarding elections may be found in section V of this Constitution. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:

The new change will be as follows:

Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy. Should one of theordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections of the ordinarii shall take place every civil year no later than November 20th for the plebeian offices and no later than December 15th for the curule magistracies and other elected officials. Newly elected tribuni plebis and aediles plebis shall enter their offices on December 10, all other officials shall enter their offices on the following Kalends of January. Anyone currently serving in an elected or appointed office may complete their term and enter their newly elected office on or after January 1. Exceptions to these provisions regarding elections may be found in section V of this Constitution. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92149 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Change of schedule date for the Comitia Centuriata
Ave!

I have been asked to adjust the beginning of the Vote from Dec. 19th to Dec. 20th.  With this post I hereby adjust the schedule for the Contio.  Please see below:

Avete Omnes,

It is my sincere pleasure to summon the Comitia Centuriata, for the last time of my Consulship.  This summons will see the election of next year's magistrates and the consideration of 1 Constitutional Change and 1 Lex.

I would like to take the moment and thank you all for your consideration and participation in advance.

Presiding Magistrate:  Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, Consul

Schedule:  

9 pm AZ Time - December 12th - Contio Opens (Debate period opens)
9 pm AZ Time - December 18th - Contio Closes (Debate Period Ends)
9 pm AZ Time - December 20th - Voting Period begins
9:01 pm AZ Time - December 26th - Voting Period Closes
9 pm AZ Time - December 27th - Contio Closes

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92150 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Candidacy to Consul
C. Aemilius Crassus quiritibus SPD,

As you all know I am running for the office of Consul of Nova Roma so I would like to state first of all that I'm ready to answer any questions any citizen may want to place me.

I think this year very important steps were made to return the normality to our Res Publica, namely and above all in my opinion, the leges governing the several comitia making possible to the people participate regularly and without the need of special SC.

I don't intend to make special reforms or legislation and think to focus my efforts in promoting and helping activity at central level but also and maybe more importantly at local level and among the sodalitates.

At the moment there is only one point I consider it should be addressed next year with a lex proposal, the provocatio procedures so that appeal instrument is available even if we can all hope it will never be necessary.

I'm very sad to see we have only enough candidates to fill the higher offices, even considering it is an improvement from recent past. I hope next year more citizens would want and present themselves for serving in the several offices of Nova Roma.

Being so my election is certain but even so I would like to ask all citizens that think I will be a good Consul for Nova Roma to take the time and vote.

I will being serve Nova Roma with Aeternia. I know Aeternia for sometime now and I have both the highest respect and consideration, and also friendship, for her and know she will be an excellent Consul. I would like also to ask all citizens to vote in Aeternia for the office of Consul.

As I have started I end stating that I will do my best to answer any question any citizen may want to ask me, both publicly or privately.

Valete optime.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92151 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Candidacy to Consul

C. Maria Caeca C. Aemilio Crasso, Sta. Corneliae Aeterniae Omnibusque S. P. D.

 

As I have said before, it gives me great pleasure, both personally and as a citizen to wholeheartedly and enthusiastically support the candidacies of both Crassus and Aeternia for the position of Consul.  I have come to know both of them rather well, and have had the honor and pleasure of working for and with them.  They have displayed qualities that I think will benefit the Republic in many ways, and I know both to be intelligent, creative, decisive enough to deal with emergency situations yet flexible enough to listen to, and honestly consider alternative methods of dealing with problems and hard working.  I am confident that both candidates care deeply about Nova Roma and have her best interests at heart, and that their contributions to the well being of the entire community will prove to be beneficial and lasting in its good effects.

 

Therefore, I encourage all citizens to give serious thought to showing them support with their votes.  It is true that there are no opposing candidates, but I know that a strong support by our voters will help them to start their tenure with increased assurance and confidence, and while this might not be essential for them to do an excellent job, it would be an excellent way to begin what I trust will be a year of continued growth in all areas.

 

Valete Bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92152 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change

Cn. Lentulus quaestor L. Sullae consuli s. d.


I think this modification of the constitution has its merit. And if we are about legislating on this issue, by which we would make some good steps into the authentic Roman direction, we should take a closer look on whether we do everything we can do in this direction.

In light of this, there are two things to adjust.

Firstly, the Roman aedilis plebis did not enter office together with the tribuni plebis on December 10, but the aediles plebis entered their office together with the aediles curules, on January 1 (W. W. Ramsay: A Manual of Roman Antiquities, p. 157, London 1863). Our constitution should reflect this.

Secondly, the Roman quaestores were tasked with the duty to make sure all other magistrates swear their oaths of office, and this was the reason why the ancient Roman quaestores entered office on December 5, before all other magistrates (G. W. Botsford: The Roman Assemblies, p. 195. reprinted
by The Lawbook Exchange, Ltd in 2001). Our constitution should reflect the date December 5 as well. (It would be good at some point in the near future to add this "oath of office pusher" task to the duties of the quaestores, but it has not necessarily be included in the constitution.)

Thus the authentic Roman republican scheme of the magistrates' entering office would look like this:

Dec. 5. - quaestores
Dec. 10. - tribuni plebis
Jan. 1. - everybody else

Vale!


Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...

 
Avete Omnes,

This recommendation was put forth by former Tribune of the Plebs. M. Pompeius Caninus.  The reason, upon its mention is clear.  The Plebeian magistrates have always assumed office in December while the remaining Ordinarii magistrates assume office in January.  All this change does is to solidify this into the Constitution and spells out with complete clarity the latest time outgoing magistrates must start the election process (though of course there is nothing to prevent them from starting the elections sooner if they so wish).  

Below is the proposed change:

CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE.

The change will affection Section IV A of the Constitution of Nova Roma, if passed by the People and ratified by the Senate of Nova Roma.

The current reading is this:

Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy. Should one of theordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections of the ordinarii shall take place no later than December 15th, and newly-elected officials shall assume their offices on January 1st. Exceptions to these provisions regarding elections may be found in section V of this Constitution. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:

The new change will be as follows:

Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy. Should one of theordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections of the ordinarii shall take place every civil year no later than November 20th for the plebeian offices and no later than December 15th for the curule magistracies and other elected officials. Newly elected tribuni plebis and aediles plebis shall enter their offices on December 10, all other officials shall enter their offices on the following Kalends of January. Anyone currently serving in an elected or appointed office may complete their term and enter their newly elected office on or after January 1. Exceptions to these provisions regarding elections may be found in section V of this Constitution. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92153 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Chariot race ...
Caninus omnibus sal.

There are few things in this world more satisfying than hearing a Vestal talking smack about the races....

LOL

 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92154 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Chariot race ...

Salve Canine!

 

Ah, but with dignity and decorum …always!  CMC

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92155 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
M. Caninus Cn. Lentulo quaestori salutem dicit:

So, the order of the elections would be:

comitia populi tributa
comitia plebis tributa
comitia centuriata

But the elections could actually be held simultaneously. The important thing is the newly elected officials take their oaths and assume their offices on the correct dates. As I mentioned in a discussion with the consular staff, November has plenty of dies comitiales. The calendar for December is not very good for comitia. The only concern I see with this suggestion to make things more like the ancient Republic would be making sure the presiding magistrates for the comitia do proper planning so the elections for the first two comitia are completed in November. 

Fac valeas!
 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus

 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92156 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
Ave,

Thank you for the suggestion.  Let me discuss this with the staff and see if the timing is reasonable.  The main concern is having to re summon the comitia populi once to elect quaestors. Then again for the curule aedile.  That is very inefficient when our voting and contio takes weeks to get done.  

Respectfully,

Sulla


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
Date:12/13/2013 10:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change

 


Cn. Lentulus quaestor L. Sullae consuli s. d.


I think this modification of the constitution has its merit. And if we are about legislating on this issue, by which we would make some good steps into the authentic Roman direction, we should take a closer look on whether we do everything we can do in this direction.

In light of this, there are two things to adjust.

Firstly, the Roman aedilis plebis did not enter office together with the tribuni plebis on December 10, but the aediles plebis entered their office together with the aediles curules, on January 1 (W. W. Ramsay: A Manual of Roman Antiquities, p. 157, London 1863). Our constitution should reflect this.

Secondly, the Roman quaestores were tasked with the duty to make sure all other magistrates swear their oaths of office, and this was the reason why the ancient Roman quaestores entered office on December 5, before all other magistrates (G. W. Botsford: The Roman Assemblies, p. 195. reprinted
by The Lawbook Exchange, Ltd in 2001). Our constitution should reflect the date December 5 as well. (It would be good at some point in the near future to add this "oath of office pusher" task to the duties of the quaestores, but it has not necessarily be included in the constitution.)

Thus the authentic Roman republican scheme of the magistrates' entering office would look like this:

Dec. 5. - quaestores
Dec. 10. - tribuni plebis
Jan. 1. - everybody else

Vale!


Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...

 
Avete Omnes,

This recommendation was put forth by former Tribune of the Plebs. M. Pompeius Caninus.  The reason, upon its mention is clear.  The Plebeian magistrates have always assumed office in December while the remaining Ordinarii magistrates assume office in January.  All this change does is to solidify this into the Constitution and spells out with complete clarity the latest time outgoing magistrates must start the election process (though of course there is nothing to prevent them from starting the elections sooner if they so wish).  

Below is the proposed change:

CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE.

The change will affection Section IV A of the Constitution of Nova Roma, if passed by the People and ratified by the Senate of Nova Roma.

The current reading is this:

Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy. Should one of theordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections of the ordinarii shall take place no later than December 15th, and newly-elected officials shall assume their offices on January 1st. Exceptions to these provisions regarding elections may be found in section V of this Constitution. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:

The new change will be as follows:

Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy. Should one of theordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections of the ordinarii shall take place every civil year no later than November 20th for the plebeian offices and no later than December 15th for the curule magistracies and other elected officials. Newly elected tribuni plebis and aediles plebis shall enter their offices on December 10, all other officials shall enter their offices on the following Kalends of January. Anyone currently serving in an elected or appointed office may complete their term and enter their newly elected office on or after January 1. Exceptions to these provisions regarding elections may be found in section V of this Constitution. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92157 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Candidacy to Consul
M. Pompeius Caninus C. Aemilio Crasso Sta. Corneliae Aeterniae omnibusque sal.

I strongly support the two candidates for the office of consul. Crassus and Aeternia, although friends, do have somewhat differing views. They will provide a balance to the office as colleagues should. The last thing we need in any office is colleagues who think alike pursuing the same agenda. 

The fact that neither of these candidates are set on making more reforms is also very good. We have just completed a year of substantial reform. What we need now is a focus on increasing activity and participation in the Nova Roma. Doing so at the local level is great but problematic. These consules can provide support and resources to promote Nova Roma on the local level as well as to the larger online community. Both Crassus and Aeternia are strong promoters of Nova Roma. They have experience in both the law and in running activities. Together they can make 2767 AUC a year for uniting and strengthening our ties to each other. 

Join me at votingplace.net next week and cast your ballot for both C. Aemilio Crassus and Sta. Cornelia Aeternia. 

Facite valeatis!
 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92158 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Cn. Lentulus quaestor L. Sullae consuli salutem iterum d.


I have comments/suggestions on the following points:


the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.” <<<


I think we should discontinue this usage of the term "Socius". It's misleading as Socius suggests an entirely different thing, and this term has never become well known among our citizens anyway. The term used for such citizens who have forgotten or missed to answer the census has for a decade now been "disappeared citizen".  The term "Socius" was misleading because it means "ally", a person who is a supporter of Nova Roma and engages in activities that promote our cause. When somebody is unavailable to answer the census that person can hardly be considered "engaging in activities that advances the cause of Nova Roma". But there is a bigger problem with the term "Socius": it suggests as if the citizen in question had never been a citizen. A "Socius" in Roman law is an alien, foreigner, who has never been a citizen, but is a citizen of an allied state. If we had a contract of alliance with another organization, this is the term we could use for the members of that organization. But when we use this term for our own inactive citizens, it's a "non sequitur". So, I suggest we simply call a citizen who did not register on the census a "disappeared citizen". And, consequently, we should simply call a resigned citizen as "former citizen". This would make things not only clearer, but more Roman. The text I suggest is this:

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as a Disappeared Citizen. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma is hereafter referred as a Former Citizen. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a Disappeared Citizen after failing to register with one census."

The last sentence should
("Any Socius or former Citizen in a Socius status ...., and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.") should be removed from the new law because it contradicts to both our practices from in use since Day 1 and contradicts to our interests. We never "remove" a citizen from the censorial Album Civium, only from the public open Album Civium, because the censorial database keeps record of past citizens, too, in order to know if a newcomer is really a newcomer or an old citizen returning, or some kind of troublemaker with a history, for example like the American Nazi Claudius who was a citizen but resigned citizenship, and I'm sure we need his name kept in the database in order to make future censores remember him in case he wanted to return. So the phrasing of the text is ambiguous, and it's better if we don't speak about removal from the Album Civium: it's clear that former citizens aren't citizens, and disappeared citizens are temporarily inactive citizens.

In all sections below, the word "Socius" thus should also replaced by "Disappeared Citizen" or "Former Citizen", or simply removed.

I have a comment on the various census point removal punishments, as well, but I don't go into details as I have already expanded on this topic earlier this year. I think that the census point loss table is unnecessarily complicated and makes no justice, because a person who resigns as a protest mustn't be punished for such an action of protest. His punishment IS that he loses citizenship as a result of such a protest!

This law would also not keep back anybody from resignation, since such a thing is often emotional, sudden, and, more frequently, the resigning citizens does not even know that there is a law about punishing him in case he would want to return. Sometimes people resign their citizenship simply because they believe that they are required to participate in forum discussions or public events, and they can't, and they believe it is the honorable thing to do to resign if you can't be an activist. But Nova Roma is a symbolic state and republic: we don't require our citizens to be activists -- they are citizens, and all they must do is to confess this identity and uphold our name. When such a person in his misunderstanding resigns for this unnecessary reason, he should not be punished by reducing his census point, but instead should be convinced not to resign.

I believe that a flat rate of census point loss (say -100 CP for magistrates, -50 CP for simple citizens) would be fair enough and satisfactory for the purpose of condemning the idea of resignations, if this is the purpose of the census point loss table.

Another problem with his proposed system discourages criticism and protest -- which are very often a sign for the leadership or for the citizenry that things aren't going well and changes are needed. If we deprive ourselves of such indicators, we might easily find our res publica in a monolith, stagnating, "North Koreanesque" situation.

It would be more straightforward and simpler to list the names of those people in the law whom you don't want to see back in Nova Roma, and then there wouldn't be a need for a census point loss table.


Thank you for the attention!

Vale!
Cn. Lentulus

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VIII.        The Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a section IX. ((Census Point loss)) which shall have the following sub-sections:
“A. Voluntary resignations shall be classified as follows:
1.  Personal: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation of a non-Nova Roman nature
2.  NR dispute: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation where a conflict, conducted in public or private, has occurred over matters that relate to Nova Roman matters, between the Citizen resigning Citizenship and another Citizen(s), or a former Citizen(s) or another person(s)
3.       No reason: No reason is provided in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately
4.  No warning: The Citizen resigning, while holding office, whether elected or appointed, gave no prior notice of an intent to resign, thus preventing alternative solutions to resignation being discussed
5.  2nd resignation: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship twice.
6.  3rd plus resignations: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship three or more times.
B. A Citizen who has voluntarily resigned shall be classed as either “citizen” (not holding elected or appointed office at the time of resignation), “minor official” (holding an office at the time of resignation, whether that office was elected or by appointment, that was not censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor) or “major official” (held office at the time of resignation as censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor).
C. Upon restoration of Citizenship, except in cases where the returning Citizen is returning from a period of legal banishment that has now expired, the amount of Citizen Points (CP) that must be returned to the Citizen is based on the table below “at VIII.D”, Where the amount of loss is listed as a percentage, that percentage must be deducted from the CP held by the Citizen at the time of his/her resignation, or the fixed amount of actual CP that must be deducted. After calculation of a percentage loss, the result of CP if less than a whole number shall be rounded down. If after deduction of a fixed amount of CP this results in a negative number, that shall be recorded in the Citizen’s Album Civium. The censors shall administer the application of the CP deductions in the table below.
D. Census Point loss table
        Personal    NR Dispute    No reason    No warning    2nd resignation    3rd plus resignation
Citizen                  20% loss   35% loss           50% loss      N/A                   100% loss           Set CP to -100
Minor official    30% loss    60% loss          80% loss      +20% loss        2x % loss            Set CP to -250
Major official     50% loss   80% loss          100% loss    2x % loss          3x % loss           Set CP to -500
Notes:                                                                                                                                                                  & nbsp;               
1) 2nd resignation of a person deemed at the time of resignation does not require that he/she was also an official on 1st resignation.                                                                                                       
2) Results of CP loss may place the resigned citizen in negative balance, which he/she will have to work off balance before CP can be earned.                                                                                                           
3) Tax rates will be addressed through Senatus consultum (tax is the prerogative of the Senate) but persons who have resigned and returned will be required to pay the Nova Roman tax for the class they were in prior to CP loss. 
4) CP loss will be calculated at the time of resignation, not upon returning, and amount of loss noted on citizen's Album page together with the class and century they were in at time of resignation.
5) The table is read left to right, so the censors shall first determine which applies; Personal, NR dispute or No reason. Then they shall determine if warning was not given and apply the enhanced penalties indicated, and finally evaluate if the citizen has resigned two, or three (or more) times and apply those penalty enhancers.
6) +20% means that this 20% is added to either, 30%, 60% or 80% depending on which applies to the Citizen.
7) 2x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of two; 3x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of three.





Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92159 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
Salve, consul!

There would be no need to re-summon the comitia: they can be elected at the same time, only that they enter office on different dates. So basically it would affect the comitia in no way. One session of the plebeian comitia elects the tribunes and the plebeian aediles, one session of the tribal comitia elects the quaestores and aediles curules, one session of the centuriate comitia elects the praetores and consules. Just like it's done now. But the quaestores shall enter office first (Dec. 5.), next the tribunes (Dec. 10.), and the rest of the government on Jan. 1. But the date of the election by the comitia populi tributa should be a little earlier than now, it should be the first comitia to be held.

The quaestores could thus also be responsible for the smooth transfer of power, like in Rome, so there would be ALWAYS someone in office between the former and the new leadership (i.e. consules-praetores). Not a negligible consideration.

Vale!
Lentulus


Da: "robert.woolwine@..." <robert.woolwine@...
 
Ave,

Thank you for the suggestion.  Let me discuss this with the staff and see if the timing is reasonable.  The main concern is having to re summon the comitia populi once to elect quaestors. Then again for the curule aedile.  That is very inefficient when our voting and contio takes weeks to get done.  

Respectfully,

Sulla


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
Date:12/13/2013 10:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change

 

Cn. Lentulus quaestor L. Sullae consuli s. d.


I think this modification of the constitution has its merit. And if we are about legislating on this issue, by which we would make some good steps into the authentic Roman direction, we should take a closer look on whether we do everything we can do in this direction.

In light of this, there are two things to adjust.

Firstly, the Roman aedilis plebis did not enter office together with the tribuni plebis on December 10, but the aediles plebis entered their office together with the aediles curules, on January 1 (W. W. Ramsay: A Manual of Roman Antiquities, p. 157, London 1863). Our constitution should reflect this.

Secondly, the Roman quaestores were tasked with the duty to make sure all other magistrates swear their oaths of office, and this was the reason why the ancient Roman quaestores entered office on December 5, before all other magistrates (G. W. Botsford: The Roman Assemblies, p. 195. reprinted
by The Lawbook Exchange, Ltd in 2001). Our constitution should reflect the date December 5 as well. (It would be good at some point in the near future to add this "oath of office pusher" task to the duties of the quaestores, but it has not necessarily be included in the constitution.)

Thus the authentic Roman republican scheme of the magistrates' entering office would look like this:

Dec. 5. - quaestores
Dec. 10. - tribuni plebis
Jan. 1. - everybody else

Vale!


Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...

 
Avete Omnes,

This recommendation was put forth by former Tribune of the Plebs. M. Pompeius Caninus.  The reason, upon its mention is clear.  The Plebeian magistrates have always assumed office in December while the remaining Ordinarii magistrates assume office in January.  All this change does is to solidify this into the Constitution and spells out with complete clarity the latest time outgoing magistrates must start the election process (though of course there is nothing to prevent them from starting the elections sooner if they so wish).  

Below is the proposed change:

CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE.

The change will affection Section IV A of the Constitution of Nova Roma, if passed by the People and ratified by the Senate of Nova Roma.

The current reading is this:

Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy. Should one of theordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections of the ordinarii shall take place no later than December 15th, and newly-elected officials shall assume their offices on January 1st. Exceptions to these provisions regarding elections may be found in section V of this Constitution. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:

The new change will be as follows:

Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy. Should one of theordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections of the ordinarii shall take place every civil year no later than November 20th for the plebeian offices and no later than December 15th for the curule magistracies and other elected officials. Newly elected tribuni plebis and aediles plebis shall enter their offices on December 10, all other officials shall enter their offices on the following Kalends of January. Anyone currently serving in an elected or appointed office may complete their term and enter their newly elected office on or after January 1. Exceptions to these provisions regarding elections may be found in section V of this Constitution. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92160 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Caesar Lentulo sal.
 
"It would be more straightforward and simpler to list the names of those people in the law whom you don't want to see back in Nova Roma, and then there wouldn't be a need for a census point loss table."
 
Incorrect. Asa general principle a law should not be so specific. We create laws to elimante problems in the future. The departures of 2010 for a competiting organization were not the first, nor will they be the last. Therefore the law must have future relevance as well as current.
 
Names should not be included because we don't know that that would be a comprehensive list. We create due process, which is then applied to situations and the individuals concerned may differ from occasion to occasion. Generally applicable law rather than situation specific law is the goal.
 
The law as written will work well.
 
Optime vale
 

From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...

 
Cn. Lentulus quaestor L. Sullae consuli salutem iterum d.


I have comments/suggestions on the following points:


the discretion of the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.” <<<


I think we should discontinue this usage of the term "Socius". It's misleading as Socius suggests an entirely different thing, and this term has never become well known among our citizens anyway. The term used for such citizens who have forgotten or missed to answer the census has for a decade now been "disappeared citizen".  The term "Socius" was misleading because it means "ally", a person who is a supporter of Nova Roma and engages in activities that promote our cause. When somebody is unavailable to answer the census that person can hardly be considered "engaging in activities that advances the cause of Nova Roma". But there is a bigger problem with the term "Socius": it suggests as if the citizen in question had never been a citizen. A "Socius" in Roman law is an alien, foreigner, who has never been a citizen, but is a citizen of an allied state. If we had a contract of alliance with another organization, this is the term we could use for the members of that organization. But when we use this term for our own inactive citizens, it's a "non sequitur". So, I suggest we simply call a citizen who did not register on the census a "disappeared citizen". And, consequently, we should simply call a resigned citizen as "former citizen". This would make things not only clearer, but more Roman. The text I suggest is this:

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as a Disappeared Citizen. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma is hereafter referred as a Former Citizen. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a Disappeared Citizen after failing to register with one census."

The last sentence should
("Any Socius or former Citizen in a Socius status ...., and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.") should be removed from the new law because it contradicts to both our practices from in use since Day 1 and contradicts to our interests. We never "remove" a citizen from the censorial Album Civium, only from the public open Album Civium, because the censorial database keeps record of past citizens, too, in order to know if a newcomer is really a newcomer or an old citizen returning, or some kind of troublemaker with a history, for example like the American Nazi Claudius who was a citizen but resigned citizenship, and I'm sure we need his name kept in the database in order to make future censores remember him in case he wanted to return. So the phrasing of the text is ambiguous, and it's better if we don't speak about removal from the Album Civium: it's clear that former citizens aren't citizens, and disappeared citizens are temporarily inactive citizens.

In all sections below, the word "Socius" thus should also replaced by "Disappeared Citizen" or "Former Citizen", or simply removed.

I have a comment on the various census point removal punishments, as well, but I don't go into details as I have already expanded on this topic earlier this year. I think that the census point loss table is unnecessarily complicated and makes no justice, because a person who resigns as a protest mustn't be punished for such an action of protest. His punishment IS that he loses citizenship as a result of such a protest!

This law would also not keep back anybody from resignation, since such a thing is often emotional, sudden, and, more frequently, the resigning citizens does not even know that there is a law about punishing him in case he would want to return. Sometimes people resign their citizenship simply because they believe that they are required to participate in forum discussions or public events, and they can't, and they believe it is the honorable thing to do to resign if you can't be an activist. But Nova Roma is a symbolic state and republic: we don't require our citizens to be activists -- they are citizens, and all they must do is to confess this identity and uphold our name. When such a person in his misunderstanding resigns for this unnecessary reason, he should not be punished by reducing his census point, but instead should be convinced not to resign.

I believe that a flat rate of census point loss (say -100 CP for magistrates, -50 CP for simple citizens) would be fair enough and satisfactory for the purpose of condemning the idea of resignations, if this is the purpose of the census point loss table.

Another problem with his proposed system discourages criticism and protest -- which are very often a sign for the leadership or for the citizenry that things aren't going well and changes are needed. If we deprive ourselves of such indicators, we might easily find our res publica in a monolith, stagnating, "North Koreanesque" situation.

It would be more straightforward and simpler to list the names of those people in the law whom you don't want to see back in Nova Roma, and then there wouldn't be a need for a census point loss table.


Thank you for the attention!

Vale!
Cn. Lentulus

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VIII.        The Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a section IX. ((Census Point loss)) which shall have the following sub-sections:
“A. Voluntary resignations shall be classified as follows:
1.  Personal: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation of a non-Nova Roman nature
2.  NR dispute: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation where a conflict, conducted in public or private, has occurred over matters that relate to Nova Roman matters, between the Citizen resigning Citizenship and another Citizen(s), or a former Citizen(s) or another person(s)
3.       No reason: No reason is provided in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately
4.  No warning: The Citizen resigning, while holding office, whether elected or appointed, gave no prior notice of an intent to resign, thus preventing alternative solutions to resignation being discussed
5.  2nd resignation: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship twice.
6.  3rd plus resignations: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship three or more times.
B. A Citizen who has voluntarily resigned shall be classed as either “citizen” (not holding elected or appointed office at the time of resignation), “minor official” (holding an office at the time of resignation, whether that office was elected or by appointment, that was not censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor) or “major official” (held office at the time of resignation as censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor).
C. Upon restoration of Citizenship, except in cases where the returning Citizen is returning from a period of legal banishment that has now expired, the amount of Citizen Points (CP) that must be returned to the Citizen is based on the table below “at VIII.D”, Where the amount of loss is listed as a percentage, that percentage must be deducted from the CP held by the Citizen at the time of his/her resignation, or the fixed amount of actual CP that must be deducted. After calculation of a percentage loss, the result of CP if less than a whole number shall be rounded down. If after deduction of a fixed amount of CP this results in a negative number, that shall be recorded in the Citizen’s Album Civium. The censors shall administer the application of the CP deductions in the table below.
D. Census Point loss table
        Personal    NR Dispute    No reason    No warning    2nd resignation    3rd plus resignation
Citizen                  20% loss   35% loss           50% loss      N/A                   100% loss           Set CP to -100
Minor official    30% loss    60% loss          80% loss      +20% loss        2x % loss            Set CP to -250
Major official     50% loss   80% loss          100% loss    2x % loss          3x % loss           Set CP to -500
Notes:                                                                                                                                                                   nbsp;               
1) 2nd resignation of a person deemed at the time of resignation does not require that he/she was also an official on 1st resignation.                                                                                                       
2) Results of CP loss may place the resigned citizen in negative balance, which he/she will have to work off balance before CP can be earned.                                                                                                           
3) Tax rates will be addressed through Senatus consultum (tax is the prerogative of the Senate) but persons who have resigned and returned will be required to pay the Nova Roman tax for the class they were in prior to CP loss. 
4) CP loss will be calculated at the time of resignation, not upon returning, and amount of loss noted on citizen's Album page together with the class and century they were in at time of resignation.
5) The table is read left to right, so the censors shall first determine which applies; Personal, NR dispute or No reason. Then they shall determine if warning was not given and apply the enhanced penalties indicated, and finally evaluate if the citizen has resigned two, or three (or more) times and apply those penalty enhancers.
6) +20% means that this 20% is added to either, 30%, 60% or 80% depending on which applies to the Citizen.
7) 2x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of two; 3x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of three.







Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92161 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
Salvete!

I agree with Lentulus that there is no reason not to have simultaneous elections even though various officials take office at different times.  It would also be better to have the elections a little earlier so as to avoid the calendar problems inherent with December.

Valete!
Quadratus


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: cn_corn_lent@...
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 19:24:45 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change

 

Salve, consul!

There would be no need to re-summon the comitia: they can be elected at the same time, only that they enter office on different dates. So basically it would affect the comitia in no way. One session of the plebeian comitia elects the tribunes and the plebeian aediles, one session of the tribal comitia elects the quaestores and aediles curules, one session of the centuriate comitia elects the praetores and consules. Just like it's done now. But the quaestores shall enter office first (Dec. 5.), next the tribunes (Dec. 10.), and the rest of the government on Jan. 1. But the date of the election by the comitia populi tributa should be a little earlier than now, it should be the first comitia to be held.

The quaestores could thus also be responsible for the smooth transfer of power, like in Rome, so there would be ALWAYS someone in office between the former and the new leadership (i.e. consules-praetores). Not a negligible consideration.

Vale!
Lentulus


Da: "robert.woolwine@..." <robert.woolwine@...
 
Ave,

Thank you for the suggestion.  Let me discuss this with the staff and see if the timing is reasonable.  The main concern is having to re summon the comitia populi once to elect quaestors. Then again for the curule aedile.  That is very inefficient when our voting and contio takes weeks to get done.  

Respectfully,

Sulla


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
Date:12/13/2013 10:54 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change

 

Cn. Lentulus quaestor L. Sullae consuli s. d.


I think this modification of the constitution has its merit. And if we are about legislating on this issue, by which we would make some good steps into the authentic Roman direction, we should take a closer look on whether we do everything we can do in this direction.

In light of this, there are two things to adjust.

Firstly, the Roman aedilis plebis did not enter office together with the tribuni plebis on December 10, but the aediles plebis entered their office together with the aediles curules, on January 1 (W. W. Ramsay: A Manual of Roman Antiquities, p. 157, London 1863). Our constitution should reflect this.

Secondly, the Roman quaestores were tasked with the duty to make sure all other magistrates swear their oaths of office, and this was the reason why the ancient Roman quaestores entered office on December 5, before all other magistrates (G. W. Botsford: The Roman Assemblies, p. 195. reprinted
by The Lawbook Exchange, Ltd in 2001). Our constitution should reflect the date December 5 as well. (It would be good at some point in the near future to add this "oath of office pusher" task to the duties of the quaestores, but it has not necessarily be included in the constitution.)

Thus the authentic Roman republican scheme of the magistrates' entering office would look like this:

Dec. 5. - quaestores
Dec. 10. - tribuni plebis
Jan. 1. - everybody else

Vale!


Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...

 
Avete Omnes,

This recommendation was put forth by former Tribune of the Plebs. M. Pompeius Caninus.  The reason, upon its mention is clear.  The Plebeian magistrates have always assumed office in December while the remaining Ordinarii magistrates assume office in January.  All this change does is to solidify this into the Constitution and spells out with complete clarity the latest time outgoing magistrates must start the election process (though of course there is nothing to prevent them from starting the elections sooner if they so wish).  

Below is the proposed change:

CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE.

The change will affection Section IV A of the Constitution of Nova Roma, if passed by the People and ratified by the Senate of Nova Roma.

The current reading is this:

Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy. Should one of theordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections of the ordinarii shall take place no later than December 15th, and newly-elected officials shall assume their offices on January 1st. Exceptions to these provisions regarding elections may be found in section V of this Constitution. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:

The new change will be as follows:

Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy. Should one of theordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections of the ordinarii shall take place every civil year no later than November 20th for the plebeian offices and no later than December 15th for the curule magistracies and other elected officials. Newly elected tribuni plebis and aediles plebis shall enter their offices on December 10, all other officials shall enter their offices on the following Kalends of January. Anyone currently serving in an elected or appointed office may complete their term and enter their newly elected office on or after January 1. Exceptions to these provisions regarding elections may be found in section V of this Constitution. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:





Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92162 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Salvete!

I do not believe we should have a public list of undesirables as it could conceivably lead to litigation.  I think it sufficient that the Censors maintain such records.

If the term "Socius" is replaced, consider the expressions "inactive citizens" or "lapsed citizens" - "disappeared citizen" sounds a bit awkward to me.  It has negative connotations that don't appear appropriate.

Valete!
Quadratus


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: cn_corn_lent@...
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 19:01:14 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

 

Cn. Lentulus quaestor L. Sullae consuli salutem iterum d.


I have comments/suggestions on the following points:



“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as a Socius. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma may also be treated as a Socius for the purposes of this lex. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a Socius after failing to register with one census. Any Socius or former Citizen in a Socius status who fails to register with a census or who fails to otherwise reestablish citizenship may, at the discretion of the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.” <<<


I think we should discontinue this usage of the term "Socius". It's misleading as Socius suggests an entirely different thing, and this term has never become well known among our citizens anyway. The term used for such citizens who have forgotten or missed to answer the census has for a decade now been "disappeared citizen".  The term "Socius" was misleading because it means "ally", a person who is a supporter of Nova Roma and engages in activities that promote our cause. When somebody is unavailable to answer the census that person can hardly be considered "engaging in activities that advances the cause of Nova Roma". But there is a bigger problem with the term "Socius": it suggests as if the citizen in question had never been a citizen. A "Socius" in Roman law is an alien, foreigner, who has never been a citizen, but is a citizen of an allied state. If we had a contract of alliance with another organization, this is the term we could use for the members of that organization. But when we use this term for our own inactive citizens, it's a "non sequitur". So, I suggest we simply call a citizen who did not register on the census a "disappeared citizen". And, consequently, we should simply call a resigned citizen as "former citizen". This would make things not only clearer, but more Roman. The text I suggest is this:

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as a Disappeared Citizen. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma is hereafter referred as a Former Citizen. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a Disappeared Citizen after failing to register with one census."

The last sentence should
("Any Socius or former Citizen in a Socius status ...., and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.") should be removed from the new law because it contradicts to both our practices from in use since Day 1 and contradicts to our interests. We never "remove" a citizen from the censorial Album Civium, only from the public open Album Civium, because the censorial database keeps record of past citizens, too, in order to know if a newcomer is really a newcomer or an old citizen returning, or some kind of troublemaker with a history, for example like the American Nazi Claudius who was a citizen but resigned citizenship, and I'm sure we need his name kept in the database in order to make future censores remember him in case he wanted to return. So the phrasing of the text is ambiguous, and it's better if we don't speak about removal from the Album Civium: it's clear that former citizens aren't citizens, and disappeared citizens are temporarily inactive citizens.

In all sections below, the word "Socius" thus should also replaced by "Disappeared Citizen" or "Former Citizen", or simply removed.

I have a comment on the various census point removal punishments, as well, but I don't go into details as I have already expanded on this topic earlier this year. I think that the census point loss table is unnecessarily complicated and makes no justice, because a person who resigns as a protest mustn't be punished for such an action of protest. His punishment IS that he loses citizenship as a result of such a protest!

This law would also not keep back anybody from resignation, since such a thing is often emotional, sudden, and, more frequently, the resigning citizens does not even know that there is a law about punishing him in case he would want to return. Sometimes people resign their citizenship simply because they believe that they are required to participate in forum discussions or public events, and they can't, and they believe it is the honorable thing to do to resign if you can't be an activist. But Nova Roma is a symbolic state and republic: we don't require our citizens to be activists -- they are citizens, and all they must do is to confess this identity and uphold our name. When such a person in his misunderstanding resigns for this unnecessary reason, he should not be punished by reducing his census point, but instead should be convinced not to resign.

I believe that a flat rate of census point loss (say -100 CP for magistrates, -50 CP for simple citizens) would be fair enough and satisfactory for the purpose of condemning the idea of resignations, if this is the purpose of the census point loss table.

Another problem with his proposed system discourages criticism and protest -- which are very often a sign for the leadership or for the citizenry that things aren't going well and changes are needed. If we deprive ourselves of such indicators, we might easily find our res publica in a monolith, stagnating, "North Koreanesque" situation.

It would be more straightforward and simpler to list the names of those people in the law whom you don't want to see back in Nova Roma, and then there wouldn't be a need for a census point loss table.


Thank you for the attention!

Vale!
Cn. Lentulus

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VIII.        The Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a section IX. ((Census Point loss)) which shall have the following sub-sections:
“A. Voluntary resignations shall be classified as follows:
1.  Personal: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation of a non-Nova Roman nature
2.  NR dispute: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation where a conflict, conducted in public or private, has occurred over matters that relate to Nova Roman matters, between the Citizen resigning Citizenship and another Citizen(s), or a former Citizen(s) or another person(s)
3.       No reason: No reason is provided in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately
4.  No warning: The Citizen resigning, while holding office, whether elected or appointed, gave no prior notice of an intent to resign, thus preventing alternative solutions to resignation being discussed
5.  2nd resignation: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship twice.
6.  3rd plus resignations: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship three or more times.
B. A Citizen who has voluntarily resigned shall be classed as either “citizen” (not holding elected or appointed office at the time of resignation), “minor official” (holding an office at the time of resignation, whether that office was elected or by appointment, that was not censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor) or “major official” (held office at the time of resignation as censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor).
C. Upon restoration of Citizenship, except in cases where the returning Citizen is returning from a period of legal banishment that has now expired, the amount of Citizen Points (CP) that must be returned to the Citizen is based on the table below “at VIII.D”, Where the amount of loss is listed as a percentage, that percentage must be deducted from the CP held by the Citizen at the time of his/her resignation, or the fixed amount of actual CP that must be deducted. After calculation of a percentage loss, the result of CP if less than a whole number shall be rounded down. If after deduction of a fixed amount of CP this results in a negative number, that shall be recorded in the Citizen’s Album Civium. The censors shall administer the application of the CP deductions in the table below.
D. Census Point loss table
        Personal    NR Dispute    No reason    No warning    2nd resignation    3rd plus resignation
Citizen                  20% loss   35% loss           50% loss      N/A                   100% loss           Set CP to -100
Minor official    30% loss    60% loss          80% loss      +20% loss        2x % loss            Set CP to -250
Major official     50% loss   80% loss          100% loss    2x % loss          3x % loss           Set CP to -500
Notes:                                                                                                                                                                   nbsp;               
1) 2nd resignation of a person deemed at the time of resignation does not require that he/she was also an official on 1st resignation.                                                                                                       
2) Results of CP loss may place the resigned citizen in negative balance, which he/she will have to work off balance before CP can be earned.                                                                                                           
3) Tax rates will be addressed through Senatus consultum (tax is the prerogative of the Senate) but persons who have resigned and returned will be required to pay the Nova Roman tax for the class they were in prior to CP loss. 
4) CP loss will be calculated at the time of resignation, not upon returning, and amount of loss noted on citizen's Album page together with the class and century they were in at time of resignation.
5) The table is read left to right, so the censors shall first determine which applies; Personal, NR dispute or No reason. Then they shall determine if warning was not given and apply the enhanced penalties indicated, and finally evaluate if the citizen has resigned two, or three (or more) times and apply those penalty enhancers.
6) +20% means that this 20% is added to either, 30%, 60% or 80% depending on which applies to the Citizen.
7) 2x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of two; 3x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of three.






Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92163 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: A 2nd NR Saturnalia in Pannonia, Regio Rostallonensis
Cn. Lentulus pontifex et leg. pr. pr. Pannoniae Quiritibus sal.


I am proud to report that the Saturnalia held in honor and glory of Nova Roma was successfully completed on 8th December.

Some initial photos can be seen in the Aquincum Museum Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.565941023485500.1073741847.123170567762550&type=1

Later I'll post better and more relevant photos to our NR website.

But I'm even more glad to announce you, Quirites, that tomorrow morning I travel to Regio Rostallonensis of Pannonia NR, (to the Hungarian city Sátoraljaújhely (pronounce: "sha-tor-al-ya-ooy-hey") where together with the citizens of this NR regio, we celebrate a second Saturnalia party/festival in the city's library, to which we have invited the city's Mayor, and he will be there with us at this public event.

In contrast to the first Saturnalia event held on 8th December, which was fully organized for Nova Roma and open to all Nova Romans who could visit us, on this 2nd Saturnalia we will focus on Pannonia, and more precisely, on NR Regio Rostallonensis of Pannonia, but at the heart of the event there will be a Saturnus ritual which will be offered for the Republic of Nova Roma, for the magistrates, senate and citizens, and this part will serve as a central NR ceremony conducted in my capacity as pontifex and quaestor of the res publica. In my capacity as praefectus Italiae and legatus pro praetore Venediae (governor), I will offer sacrifice to Saturnus on behalf of Italia and Provincia Venedia as well.

As usual, there will be Roman fashion show,  lecture on the Roman Saturnalia and calendar, Roman games, competitions and activities for kids, legionary equipment demonstration, drinking wine and eating Roman food - and so on... We will have fun for you!


Valete!
Cn. Lentulus, pontifex
QVAESTOR
leg. pr. pr. Pannoniae et Venediae
praefectus Italiae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92164 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

Lentulus Quadrato sal.

I suggested the term "Disappeared Citizen" because it's a term in used since ages in the NR Censorial Album Civium. So it would put the "theory" (the law) in line with the practice. But if it is awkward in English, I think the second best term is "Inactive Citizen" (and since some other legal documents use the term "Active Citizen" for census registered citizens, it has some ground to call citizens who failed to register as "Inactive Citizens". For reasons explained, I prefer the term disappeared.

Vale!


Da: "charlesaronowitz@..." <charlesaronowitz@...
 
Salvete!

I do not believe we should have a public list of undesirables as it could conceivably lead to litigation.  I think it sufficient that the Censors maintain such records.

If the term "Socius" is replaced, consider the expressions "inactive citizens" or "lapsed citizens" - "disappeared citizen" sounds a bit awkward to me.  It has negative connotations that don't appear appropriate.

Valete!
Quadratus


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: cn_corn_lent@...
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 19:01:14 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

 

Cn. Lentulus quaestor L. Sullae consuli salutem iterum d.


I have comments/suggestions on the following points:


may, at the discretion of the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.” <<<


I think we should discontinue this usage of the term "Socius". It's misleading as Socius suggests an entirely different thing, and this term has never become well known among our citizens anyway. The term used for such citizens who have forgotten or missed to answer the census has for a decade now been "disappeared citizen".  The term "Socius" was misleading because it means "ally", a person who is a supporter of Nova Roma and engages in activities that promote our cause. When somebody is unavailable to answer the census that person can hardly be considered "engaging in activities that advances the cause of Nova Roma". But there is a bigger problem with the term "Socius": it suggests as if the citizen in question had never been a citizen. A "Socius" in Roman law is an alien, foreigner, who has never been a citizen, but is a citizen of an allied state. If we had a contract of alliance with another organization, this is the term we could use for the members of that organization. But when we use this term for our own inactive citizens, it's a "non sequitur". So, I suggest we simply call a citizen who did not register on the census a "disappeared citizen". And, consequently, we should simply call a resigned citizen as "former citizen". This would make things not only clearer, but more Roman. The text I suggest is this:

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as a Disappeared Citizen. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma is hereafter referred as a Former Citizen. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a Disappeared Citizen after failing to register with one census."

The last sentence should
("Any Socius or former Citizen in a Socius status ...., and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.") should be removed from the new law because it contradicts to both our practices from in use since Day 1 and contradicts to our interests. We never "remove" a citizen from the censorial Album Civium, only from the public open Album Civium, because the censorial database keeps record of past citizens, too, in order to know if a newcomer is really a newcomer or an old citizen returning, or some kind of troublemaker with a history, for example like the American Nazi Claudius who was a citizen but resigned citizenship, and I'm sure we need his name kept in the database in order to make future censores remember him in case he wanted to return. So the phrasing of the text is ambiguous, and it's better if we don't speak about removal from the Album Civium: it's clear that former citizens aren't citizens, and disappeared citizens are temporarily inactive citizens.

In all sections below, the word "Socius" thus should also replaced by "Disappeared Citizen" or "Former Citizen", or simply removed.

I have a comment on the various census point removal punishments, as well, but I don't go into details as I have already expanded on this topic earlier this year. I think that the census point loss table is unnecessarily complicated and makes no justice, because a person who resigns as a protest mustn't be punished for such an action of protest. His punishment IS that he loses citizenship as a result of such a protest!

This law would also not keep back anybody from resignation, since such a thing is often emotional, sudden, and, more frequently, the resigning citizens does not even know that there is a law about punishing him in case he would want to return. Sometimes people resign their citizenship simply because they believe that they are required to participate in forum discussions or public events, and they can't, and they believe it is the honorable thing to do to resign if you can't be an activist. But Nova Roma is a symbolic state and republic: we don't require our citizens to be activists -- they are citizens, and all they must do is to confess this identity and uphold our name. When such a person in his misunderstanding resigns for this unnecessary reason, he should not be punished by reducing his census point, but instead should be convinced not to resign.

I believe that a flat rate of census point loss (say -100 CP for magistrates, -50 CP for simple citizens) would be fair enough and satisfactory for the purpose of condemning the idea of resignations, if this is the purpose of the census point loss table.

Another problem with his proposed system discourages criticism and protest -- which are very often a sign for the leadership or for the citizenry that things aren't going well and changes are needed. If we deprive ourselves of such indicators, we might easily find our res publica in a monolith, stagnating, "North Koreanesque" situation.

It would be more straightforward and simpler to list the names of those people in the law whom you don't want to see back in Nova Roma, and then there wouldn't be a need for a census point loss table.


Thank you for the attention!

Vale!
Cn. Lentulus

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

VIII.        The Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a section IX. ((Census Point loss)) which shall have the following sub-sections:
“A. Voluntary resignations shall be classified as follows:
1.  Personal: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation of a non-Nova Roman nature
2.  NR dispute: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation where a conflict, conducted in public or private, has occurred over matters that relate to Nova Roman matters, between the Citizen resigning Citizenship and another Citizen(s), or a former Citizen(s) or another person(s)
3.       No reason: No reason is provided in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately
4.  No warning: The Citizen resigning, while holding office, whether elected or appointed, gave no prior notice of an intent to resign, thus preventing alternative solutions to resignation being discussed
5.  2nd resignation: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship twice.
6.  3rd plus resignations: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship three or more times.
B. A Citizen who has voluntarily resigned shall be classed as either “citizen” (not holding elected or appointed office at the time of resignation), “minor official” (holding an office at the time of resignation, whether that office was elected or by appointment, that was not censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor) or “major official” (held office at the time of resignation as censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor).
C. Upon restoration of Citizenship, except in cases where the returning Citizen is returning from a period of legal banishment that has now expired, the amount of Citizen Points (CP) that must be returned to the Citizen is based on the table below “at VIII.D”, Where the amount of loss is listed as a percentage, that percentage must be deducted from the CP held by the Citizen at the time of his/her resignation, or the fixed amount of actual CP that must be deducted. After calculation of a percentage loss, the result of CP if less than a whole number shall be rounded down. If after deduction of a fixed amount of CP this results in a negative number, that shall be recorded in the Citizen’s Album Civium. The censors shall administer the application of the CP deductions in the table below.
D. Census Point loss table
        Personal    NR Dispute    No reason    No warning    2nd resignation    3rd plus resignation
Citizen                  20% loss   35% loss           50% loss      N/A                   100% loss           Set CP to -100
Minor official    30% loss    60% loss          80% loss      +20% loss        2x % loss            Set CP to -250
Major official     50% loss   80% loss          100% loss    2x % loss          3x % loss           Set CP to -500
Notes:                                                                                                                                                                   nbsp;               
1) 2nd resignation of a person deemed at the time of resignation does not require that he/she was also an official on 1st resignation.                                                                                                       
2) Results of CP loss may place the resigned citizen in negative balance, which he/she will have to work off balance before CP can be earned.                                                                                                           
3) Tax rates will be addressed through Senatus consultum (tax is the prerogative of the Senate) but persons who have resigned and returned will be required to pay the Nova Roman tax for the class they were in prior to CP loss. 
4) CP loss will be calculated at the time of resignation, not upon returning, and amount of loss noted on citizen's Album page together with the class and century they were in at time of resignation.
5) The table is read left to right, so the censors shall first determine which applies; Personal, NR dispute or No reason. Then they shall determine if warning was not given and apply the enhanced penalties indicated, and finally evaluate if the citizen has resigned two, or three (or more) times and apply those penalty enhancers.
6) +20% means that this 20% is added to either, 30%, 60% or 80% depending on which applies to the Citizen.
7) 2x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of two; 3x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of three.








Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92165 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

C. Maria Caeca Cn. Cornelio Lentulo Quaestori, Pontifici Omnibusque S. P. D.

 

Before I begin my comments, I should explain that I take the concept of citizenship in NR very seriously, and I know that others take it less so, as is their prerogative.  What I say, therefore, is from my own perspective, and may well say more about me than about the issues I wish to address.

First, let me deal with what I call resignation by tantrum.  A citizen gets very angry about something or someone, and, very publicly, says essentially “I’ve had enough of all of you” and flounces out, without thought.  Call me old fashioned, but I see no reason whatsoever to either tolerate or support this kind of personal dramatic moment.  We are, supposedly, mature adults, and I think it reasonable to expect any mature adult to act, not on the spur of the moment while emotions are running high, but to take the time to consider the ramifications of such actions, and the inconvenience (or worse) such actions may well cause other citizens, or the Res Publica.  Especially since, all too frequently (often less than an hour later) the infuriated former citizen comes back and says, essentially, “oops, I wasn’t thinking.  Can we just ignore this and pretend it never happened?” My answer to that is, no, we can’t, or won’t.  If people take actions, then they should take the responsibility for those actions, and accept their consequences.

 

I feel much the same about resigning in protest of some policy.  I have no problem with protesting a policy or anything else.  I have no problem with expressing disagreement with something, in very plain and specific terms.  But, if I disagree with something, I do not see how “leaving the building” is going to do anything productive.  Certainly my presence or absence from any organization (or anywhere else) is not so significant that my absence will make anyone even consider changing a policy, not even for the flicker of an eyelash.  No, if I dislike something strongly, I will stay, and make my feelings known where they have even a slight chance of doing some good in the public for a, or, if appropriate in the cohors in which I am currently serving.  Yes, there are things that could happen that would require me to resign my citizenship, but if that ever happened, there would be no public manifestos, no flouncing away, and emphatically no coming back.  I would simply follow the procedures and leave.

 

We in NR have had too much experience of magistrates leaving in the middle of their terms, and we have had entirely too much experience with angry citizens resigning in a fit of pique, only to express their anger in places where we, the citizens and magistrates who are the focus of that anger can’t respond or defend our actions.  If a citizen wants to raise issues with the way things are being done, that must be done openly, where there can be a response, or not at all.

 

Valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92166 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
M. Caninus Cn. Lentulo omnibusque SPD.

Amice, your concerns regarding the use of the term 'socius' seem to be well founded and should be easily fixed, as you suggested. 

As for the point loss penalties, yes, this is a fairly complex law. The law attempts to provide very clear guidelines to prevent the current revolving door situation. It is also intended, as you mentioned, to cause people to think a bit more before they renounce their citizenship. It is very true that such actions are done most often in sudden, emotional outbursts rather than through well reasoned consideration. But even if the law is complex and, perhaps even harsh in its penalties, as you seem to suggest, we should not oversimplify the law. Having the censores impose a flat -100 CP or -50 CP is too simple. Do you have a suggestion that is less complex than what is proposed in this law but addresses some of the concerns regarding abandonment/abdication of office as well as 'repeat offenders' - people who resign three or more times over the course of their association with Nova Roma? We had plenty of time to discuss this law over the last several weeks in the consular staff list. Now that every citizen can read the text perhaps we will have a new perspective through this contio. But let us not make this too simple.  

Taking another look at the law the only thing that strikes me as too harsh is in paragraph VIII.D. -
"3) Tax rates will be addressed through Senatus consultum (tax is the prerogative of the Senate) but persons who have resigned and returned will be required to pay the Nova Roman tax for the class they were in prior to CP loss."
Imposing the loss of century points and then making the citizen pay taxes at the previously held class level might be a bit too strong.

Finally, I believe this statement you made, Lentule, has a lot of merit and should be discussed further:
"It would be more straightforward and simpler to list the names of those people in the law whom you don't want to see back in Nova Roma, and then there wouldn't be a need for a census point loss table."

It would be fairly simple to have the censores issue an edict for personae non gratae and apply a special status code in the Album Civium for anyone who leaves voluntarily - not through a trial or banishment - who is not welcome back to Nova Roma. The edict would only need to be issued once and it must be done so collegially. The edict would need to be ratified by the Senate before it would go into effect. Once approved, a special status code would be entered in the Album Civium. This status code would allow the computer system to present a special album of banned citizens. Once a citizen is named in an approved edict as persona non grata he or she would no longer be able to reapply for citizenship through the normal means. Such a person could regain citizenship only if the censores in office at the time of reapplication issue an edict collegially supporting reinstatement of citizenship and the Senate approves. But this seems to be fairly complicated, too.  

Facite valeatis!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92167 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

Caeca Quadrato Sal!

 

You make a good point about using inactive or lapsed citizens …”disappeared” does have some unfortunate associations, and a new citizen may well wonder just what happens to former citizens!

 

Valete!

CMC

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92168 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

Salve Lentule!

 

But …the problem is that in English, “disappeared” is used to describe what happens to undesirable citizens in certain military dictatorship who, without arrest or trial, simply disappear, never to be seen or heard from again.  This has become one of those idioms that has taken on a very specific meaning, and, even though it had a specific meaning for us, we might, since we are making other changes, change this as well, for linguistically cosmetic reasons, if nothing else. I can tell you that the first time I heard that word while working in Sabinus’ Censura, it was a bit disconcerting, even though I understood how it was being used.

 

Vale quam optime!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92169 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Caninus Caecae sal.

Yeah, I could see some public relations problems in places like Argentina if word gets out that Nova Roma has a lot of disappeared citizens. 

LOL!

 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92170 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
SALVE ET SALVETE!


--------------------------------------------
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92171 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Caninus Sabino omnibusque sal.

True, the censorial edict would automatically expire unless renewed by the senior censor beginning his second year and the incoming junior censor. However, in the Senate the matter could be put in a senatus consultum as part of the Senate's approval. 

The question is: Would a personae non gratae process be easier or more efficient than the processes laid out in the proposed law? I am not sure. But I thought we might discuss Lentulus' idea to see if it made sense. And if it made sense, could Lentulus' idea be incorporated to make the lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda a little less complex. 
 
Bene vale et valete!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92172 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
M. Pompeius Caninus quiritibus SPD.

Let me add that Nova Roma needs this lex. If we citizens can make it better through our discussions before contio closes then we will have done a great service to Nova Roma. I ask everyone to please express any concerns, doubts, statements of support, and to please voice any questions you may have so we can make the most informed decision possible when it is time to vote. 

And - please, please, please vote when the polls open next week.

I hope you will vote in favor of the lex. But the important thing is that you vote.

Bene valete!
 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92173 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

C. Maria Caeca M. Pompeio S. P. D.

 

You know, I’ve been thinking about your idea, and while I can see the logic behind it, I wonder if there aren’t a few pitfalls we should seriously consider.  First, I agree that a list of names is problematic for a whole bunch of reasons, most of them covered by the Censor.  Your idea of edicta declaring certain people persona no grata sounds workable on the surface, but, besides the fact that the previous edicta would need to either be reissued each year, or new edicta issued, using the law itself as the determinant as to whether a citizen can return, and if so, under what conditions, does remove the potential for, for lack of better words, personal preferences on the part of anyone.  The law, though complicated, is very specific, and I think, in the long run, that precision and specificity will serve us best, despite its complexity.  If one reads it carefully, it is understandable, and the tables provide the tools any sitting magistrate can use, and use to defend or justify his actions, in just about any eventuality.

 

Vale et valete!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92174 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Ave, 

I'm sure any citizen of Argentina would not appreciate the term of a disappeared citizen.  Just call them what they are.  Simple and straightforward. 

Vale,

Sulla


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: cmc
Date:12/13/2013 1:17 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

 

Salve Lentule!

 

But …the problem is that in English, “disappeared” is used to describe what happens to undesirable citizens in certain military dictatorship who, without arrest or trial, simply disappear, never to be seen or heard from again.  This has become one of those idioms that has taken on a very specific meaning, and, even though it had a specific meaning for us, we might, since we are making other changes, change this as well, for linguistically cosmetic reasons, if nothing else. I can tell you that the first time I heard that word while working in Sabinus’ Censura, it was a bit disconcerting, even though I understood how it was being used.

 

Vale quam optime!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92175 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Lol great minds... lol


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "M. Pompeius Caninus"
Date:12/13/2013 1:18 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

 

Caninus Caecae sal.

Yeah, I could see some public relations problems in places like Argentina if word gets out that Nova Roma has a lot of disappeared citizens. 

LOL!

 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92176 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: SPEAKING LATIN
Tiberius Marcius Quadra salutem pluriman dicit,
I've been getting regular emails from this email address: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com which is fine but I'm not very interested in its politics, horse races, and English preference.

Is it possible; or how can I get regular emails from them: http://novaroma.org/nr/LA:Main_Page

Specifically, I am interested in receiving regular (daily/weekly) emails from Nova Roma Latina.

My main objective is to practice & speak Latin fluently with other Latin speakers.
Gratias tibi ago,
Tiberius Marcius Quadra
 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92177 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Avete Omnes,

Now that I am home from seeing the Hobbit:  Desolation of Smaug...I now have some time to address the request by Lentulus to just come up with a list of names of former citizens who we flat out do not want to come back to Nova Roma.

First, coming up with an edicta is not sufficient.  That is, at the barest essential, a 1 year temporary exile, if one can come up with a pair of magistrates willing to issue such an edict.  Even the SCU Edicta which was used to banish former citizens Piscinus (John Raeli) and Agricola (I dont remember his macro name) are permanent banishments.  They will never be allowed to come back to Nova Roma ever.

Now, Nova Roma has not had a dictator in over 13 years.  But, if the Senate of Nova Roma choose to appoint me a dictator for the sole purpose of coming up with a process of creating a proscription list, since let's face it, That is exactly what you are calling for, Lentulus.  I will prepare one.  But, it will NOT be one that just relys on one's name.  That is just an easy loophole one could change.  Case in point at least two or three of the individuals in the Sertorian organization changed their Roman names the moment they joined the competing organization.   Just relying on that factor alone is not only not sufficient but against precedent in Nova Roma.  Since I have 3 to 4 factors that we now use to break ties in the Comitia procedures.  There should likewise be 3-4 key elements to ensure that those whose name falls under the "proscription list" are not able to sneak their way back on their bellies back to Nova Roma.   I sincerely doubt the Senate would want to use this avenue.  

Baring the use of a dictator to establish the parameters and list of individuals....it becomes incumbent on the People of Nova Roma to vote on a process that though more complicated can be applied fairly, transparently and consistently to any former member of Nova Roma, regardless of the standing of the individual when they choose that they wish to try to return to the organization.

The proposed law seeks just that.  As an individual who has at one time failed in his duty to Nova Roma and resigned once.  This law would be applicable to me, if I ever failed the organization by resigning a second time.  This law would also apply to those individuals who were my adversaries equally.  There is no double standard, there is consistency and after 15 years of existence there is a CLEAR need for this lex.

Respectfully,

Sulla




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92178 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
Ave.

You could join the Latinitas list if it is still active.  Or the Roma Nova list.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92179 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Avete Omnes,
I agree with Lentulus, except I offer these Latin words:
Translatum (or Disparuit) Civis  - "Disappeared Citizen"
Exsilium Civis - Expatriate or Exile "Former Citizen"
Gratias tibi ago,
Tiberius Marcius Quadra


On Saturday, December 14, 2013 10:30 AM, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...  
Avete Omnes,

Now that I am home from seeing the Hobbit:  Desolation of Smaug...I now have some time to address the request by Lentulus to just come up with a list of names of former citizens who we flat out do not want to come back to Nova Roma.

First, coming up with an edicta is not sufficient.  That is, at the barest essential, a 1 year temporary exile, if one can come up with a pair of magistrates willing to issue such an edict.  Even the SCU Edicta which was used to banish former citizens Piscinus (John Raeli) and Agricola (I dont remember his macro name) are permanent banishments.  They will never be allowed to come back to Nova Roma ever.

Now, Nova Roma has not had a dictator in over 13 years.  But, if the Senate of Nova Roma choose to appoint me a dictator for the sole purpose of coming up with a process of creating a proscription list, since let's face it, That is exactly what you are calling for, Lentulus.  I will prepare one.  But, it will NOT be one that just relys on one's name.  That is just an easy loophole one could change.  Case in point at least two or three of the individuals in the Sertorian organization changed their Roman names the moment they joined the competing organization.   Just relying on that factor alone is not only not sufficient but against precedent in Nova Roma.  Since I have 3 to 4 factors that we now use to break ties in the Comitia procedures.  There should likewise be 3-4 key elements to ensure that those whose name falls under the "proscription list" are not able to sneak their way back on their bellies back to Nova Roma.   I sincerely doubt the Senate would want to use this avenue.  

Baring the use of a dictator to establish the parameters and list of individuals....it becomes incumbent on the People of Nova Roma to vote on a process that though more complicated can be applied fairly, transparently and consistently to any former member of Nova Roma, regardless of the standing of the individual when they choose that they wish to try to return to the organization.

The proposed law seeks just that.  As an individual who has at one time failed in his duty to Nova Roma and resigned once.  This law would be applicable to me, if I ever failed the organization by resigning a second time.  This law would also apply to those individuals who were my adversaries equally.  There is no double standard, there is consistency and after 15 years of existence there is a CLEAR need for this lex.

Respectfully,

Sulla




On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 3:52 PM, cmc <c.mariacaeca@...



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92180 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
Ave Sulla,
Can you tell me how?
Grati,
M.Quadra
 
 


On Saturday, December 14, 2013 10:34 AM, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...  
Ave.

You could join the Latinitas list if it is still active.  Or the Roma Nova list.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92181 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
Ave,

I am about to leave the house again....but I do believe there are links on the Wiki.  Let me try to find them for you.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92182 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
http://novaroma.org/nr/Mailing_lists_(Nova_Roma) - it is listed there about mid way through the page.

On the Roma Nova List...It is not on the Wiki from my brief check...but I know Hadrianus is on the ml he or someone else might have that.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92183 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
Caninus Quadrae salutem dicit:

You should to go here - http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Latinitas/info - and start some conversations.

The Nova Roma Latina Yahoo group states their web page is the Latin translation of the main page of the Nova Roma Wiki. But the group appears to be basically dead. There have only been 45 messages in 2013 and most of those seem to be announcements rather than conversational threads. The only advice I can give you if you are dead set on joining that group is click the Join button and wait for the moderator, Marcus Iulius Severus, a senator of the Sertorian organization, to approve your membership. I find it ironic that the group moderator is in RPR by the group still includes the Nova Roma Wiki in its profile. This group should be Nova Roma property and returned to Nova Roma control. If that is not possible then the group needs to remove the Nova Roma trademark from their page. Seriously, though, Quadra, even though the group page shows 53 members you are very unlikely to gain much from joining. The group page states there are 53 members but there are only about a dozen posts in the past year that have any real content and that content does not appear to be useful for beginners or for instruction in the language. The Sodalitas Latinitatis is the active Nova Roma group for people interested in learning and using the Latin language. 

You might also benefit from several resources outside of Nova Roma. I will dig up the old post about these resources. 

Fac valeas!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92184 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
A. Tullia Scholastica M. Pompejo Canino quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D. 

 

Caninus Quadrae salutem dicit:

You should to go here - http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Latinitas/info - and start some conversations.

The Nova Roma Latina Yahoo group states their web page is the Latin translation of the main page of the Nova Roma Wiki. But the group appears to be basically dead. There have only been 45 messages in 2013 and most of those seem to be announcements rather than conversational threads. The only advice I can give you if you are dead set on joining that group is click the Join button and wait for the moderator, Marcus Iulius Severus, a senator of the Sertorian organization, to approve your membership.

Um, Canine, there seems to be some confusion here.  There may well be more than one group with the same name (though I don't think so…), but in any case, so far as I am aware, the Nova Roma Latina group is headed by Cn. Cornelius Lentulus, not M. Julius Severus. The latter knows some Latin, but is nowhere close to the level of some others here present, including Lentulus.  I don't seem to find the means of joining the NR Latina group, which has only my old address, but the list of my groups seems to indicate that I have managed to join it under my new one. Without the ability to see the membership list, I cannot verify whether or not Severus is even in the group, let alone a moderator thereof, but know that Lentulus founded this.  

The link you gave above is to the Sodalitas Latinitatis, which is indeed quite quiet, especially since Avitus left.  The Nova Roma all-Latin group is even quieter, and has always been quiet.  Some of the members are not competent to write in Latin (a requirement), and others don't have the time.  It takes a lot longer to write in Latin than it does in one's native tongue, although that process is much easier, and faster, after graduating from the Sermo Latinus courses we offer.  We have tried to get people to post to the list, but seem to have had little success.  This sort of thing is voluntary, not mandatory, as certain parties wish to make everything in our lives.  

I find it ironic that the group moderator is in RPR by the group still includes the Nova Roma Wiki in its profile. This group should be Nova Roma property and returned to Nova Roma control.

Chances are very good that it already is, although it, like Latinitas, has several non-citizens among its members.  Perhaps that is deemed a no-no in certain quarters.  

If that is not possible then the group needs to remove the Nova Roma trademark from their page. Seriously, though, Quadra, even though the group page shows 53 members you are very unlikely to gain much from joining. The group page states there are 53 members but there are only about a dozen posts in the past year that have any real content and that content does not appear to be useful for beginners or for instruction in the language.

Neither the Nova Roma Latina group nor the Sodalitas Latinitatis offers instruction in Latin.  The latter ceased to perform that function after the foundation of the Academia Thules, which as you probably know is no longer in existence.   When its course server broke and was not repaired, Avitus and I betook ourselves to another server, and continue to offer courses there.  We still have about a hundred students in our courses despite many departures.  Illness, work changes, and lack of time for intensive courses take many away.  Nova-Roma-Latina never offered such instruction, but it seems from the message history that Quadra is already a member.  We offer instruction via the schola, but as you should be aware, work is involved.  


The Sodalitas Latinitatis is the active Nova Roma group for people interested in learning and using the Latin language. 

You might also benefit from several resources outside of Nova Roma. I will dig up the old post about these resources. 

Fac valeas!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae
 
Valete. 



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92185 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
M. Pompeius Caninus A. Toulouse Scholasticae communique sal.

I don't believe there is any confusion on my part, Magistra.

The Yahoo group with Severus moderator is 

Not 

Been vale et valete!


Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92186 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-13
Subject: Spelling
Caninus sal.

My Kindle desperately needs a Latin word list for auto correction. Bene comes out Been, sal comes out Sal. LOL


Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92187 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Salvete,

Sulla writes:

Seneca


On Friday, December 13, 2013 7:30 PM, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...  
Avete Omnes,

Now that I am home from seeing the Hobbit:  Desolation of Smaug...I now have some time to address the request by Lentulus to just come up with a list of names of former citizens who we flat out do not want to come back to Nova Roma.

First, coming up with an edicta is not sufficient.  That is, at the barest essential, a 1 year temporary exile, if one can come up with a pair of magistrates willing to issue such an edict.  Even the SCU Edicta which was used to banish former citizens Piscinus (John Raeli) and Agricola (I dont remember his macro name) are permanent banishments.  They will never be allowed to come back to Nova Roma ever.

Now, Nova Roma has not had a dictator in over 13 years.  But, if the Senate of Nova Roma choose to appoint me a dictator for the sole purpose of coming up with a process of creating a proscription list, since let's face it, That is exactly what you are calling for, Lentulus.  I will prepare one.  But, it will NOT be one that just relys on one's name.  That is just an easy loophole one could change.  Case in point at least two or three of the individuals in the Sertorian organization changed their Roman names the moment they joined the competing organization.   Just relying on that factor alone is not only not sufficient but against precedent in Nova Roma.  Since I have 3 to 4 factors that we now use to break ties in the Comitia procedures.  There should likewise be 3-4 key elements to ensure that those whose name falls under the "proscription list" are not able to sneak their way back on their bellies back to Nova Roma.   I sincerely doubt the Senate would want to use this avenue.  

Baring the use of a dictator to establish the parameters and list of individuals....it becomes incumbent on the People of Nova Roma to vote on a process that though more complicated can be applied fairly, transparently and consistently to any former member of Nova Roma, regardless of the standing of the individual when they choose that they wish to try to return to the organization.

The proposed law seeks just that.  As an individual who has at one time failed in his duty to Nova Roma and resigned once.  This law would be applicable to me, if I ever failed the organization by resigning a second time.  This law would also apply to those individuals who were my adversaries equally.  There is no double standard, there is consistency and after 15 years of existence there is a CLEAR need for this lex.

Respectfully,

Sulla




On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 3:52 PM, cmc <c.mariacaeca@...



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92188 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Ave,

We just crucify Pirates. ;) Proscription lists are a different animal....and dare I say much more satisfying.  I can totally see why my namesake probably thoroughly enjoyed writing those lists. ;)

Vale,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92189 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN

Cn. Lentulus M. Pompeio s. p. d.

Dear Caninus, Tullia is right, I am the owner and founder and sole moderator of the Nova-Roma-Latina group and it has been inactive for a long time. 

I hope with new list members joining the group can be brought to life.

Severus is not even in the group (AFAIK).

You can check the members list.

Vale!


Da: M. Pompeius Caninus <caninus@...
 
M. Pompeius Caninus A. Toulouse Scholasticae communique sal.

I don't believe there is any confusion on my part, Magistra.

The Yahoo group with Severus moderator is 

Not 

Been vale et valete!


Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae
 




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92190 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Lentulus Sullae cos. sal.


disappeared citizen.  Just call them what they are.  Simple and straightforward. <<<


But they ARE disappeared citizens, so with this sentence you seem to suggest we call them "disappeared", simple and straightforward, since they are citizens who disappeared during census. If not this, then what is your preferred term? Because Socius is clearly not a valid word for this concept. A Socius is a member of an ALLIED organization, not of ours.

If something else, perhaps "Inactive Citizen" is the best fitting word to describe them. Or if we want a *very clear* and official term, they should be called "Unregistered Citizens".

Vale!




Da: "robert.woolwine@..." <robert.woolwine@...
 
Ave, 

I'm sure any citizen of Argentina would not appreciate the term of a disappeared citizen.  Just call them what they are.  Simple and straightforward. 

Vale,

Sulla


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: cmc
Date:12/13/2013 1:17 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Nova-Roma] Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

 
Salve Lentule!
 
But …the problem is that in English, “disappeared” is used to describe what happens to undesirable citizens in certain military dictatorship who, without arrest or trial, simply disappear, never to be seen or heard from again.  This has become one of those idioms that has taken on a very specific meaning, and, even though it had a specific meaning for us, we might, since we are making other changes, change this as well, for linguistically cosmetic reasons, if nothing else. I can tell you that the first time I heard that word while working in Sabinus’ Censura, it was a bit disconcerting, even though I understood how it was being used.
 
Vale quam optime!
C. Maria Caeca


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92191 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Ave,

You seriously do not seem to understand the point that Caninus and I are making.  In certain countries disappearing citizens = citizens killed by the state.  This is not going to be the term we are going to use.  Lentulus you try to be political and fail because you do not understand nuance.  This is not going to be the term we use.  

I can just see it now, on the Nova Roma revealed blog site..Nova Roma now sanctions "disappearing citizens."  

Publicity and marketing are important, Lentulus.  This is NOT going to be the term we use in regards to this classification of former citizen.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92192 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

Cn. Lentulus M. Pompeio, Mariae Caecae, L. Sullae omnibusque sal.

I think I should note that I was speaking ironically when I suggested a list of names of undesirable citizens, and I thought it was clear: if you can remember I was against the practice and against the very idea of rejecting and excluding people from Nova Roma every time it was brought up here during this year's legislations. I am most clearly against any kind of proscriptions or listing of names...
The very fact that this sarcastic suggestion was taken seriously suggests that there is an unhealthy atmosphere of "cold war" here in Nova Roma, even 3 years after the things transpired. Can't we just one day move on, and forget about encoding the fear from our former citizens or from others and the fearing of the pitiful RPR? I hate to see that parts of our recent laws are inspired by these things. This is why I said it's better if the proscriptions are flat out and open, and they are there in ONE law, instead of infecting all.

Valete!


Da: cmc <c.mariacaeca@...
 
C. Maria Caeca M. Pompeio S. P. D.
 
You know, I’ve been thinking about your idea, and while I can see the logic behind it, I wonder if there aren’t a few pitfalls we should seriously consider.  First, I agree that a list of names is problematic for a whole bunch of reasons, most of them covered by the Censor.  Your idea of edicta declaring certain people persona no grata sounds workable on the surface, but, besides the fact that the previous edicta would need to either be reissued each year, or new edicta issued, using the law itself as the determinant as to whether a citizen can return, and if so, under what conditions, does remove the potential for, for lack of better words, personal preferences on the part of anyone.  The law, though complicated, is very specific, and I think, in the long run, that precision and specificity will serve us best, despite its complexity.  If one reads it carefully, it is understandable, and the tables provide the tools any sitting magistrate can use, and use to defend or justify his actions, in just about any eventuality.
 
Vale et valete!
C. Maria Caeca


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92193 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Salvete,

What is the Latin phrase for "unregistered" ...like INCENSUS or something like that.

Valete 
 
L VITELLIVS TRIARIVS

Citizen of Nova Roma
Dominus praefectus of Factio Veneta
Senator of Nova Roma
Governor of New Province to be Renamed (LOL)
Wikiworker extraordinaire 

"Quam bene vivas refert, non quam diu." 

(The important thing isn't how long you live, but how well you live) 

~ L. Annaeus Seneca


On Saturday, December 14, 2013 1:12 AM, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...  
Ave,

You seriously do not seem to understand the point that Caninus and I are making.  In certain countries disappearing citizens = citizens killed by the state.  This is not going to be the term we are going to use.  Lentulus you try to be political and fail because you do not understand nuance.  This is not going to be the term we use.  

I can just see it now, on the Nova Roma revealed blog site..Nova Roma now sanctions "disappearing citizens."  

Publicity and marketing are important, Lentulus.  This is NOT going to be the term we use in regards to this classification of former citizen.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:08 PM, Cn. Cornelius Lentulus <cn_corn_lent@...



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92194 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Ave,

The simple answer to that is that it would be absolutely insane to not forget the past.  Nova Roma has spent the past 3 years learning FROM the past to ensure that our future will not be plagued by repeating the lessons of the past.

Nova Roma has gone through 2 civil wars.  
Nova Roma has gone through 1 dictatorship.
Nova Roma has gone through former magistrates and senators trying to defaud the organization.
Nova Roma has gone through an IRS audit referred specifically by individual(s) who are apart of the competing organization.

When you have to deal with the IRS to ensure Nova Roma's not for profit status is protected - then you can have some foundation to tell me it is time to forgive.  Until then, you need to accept the present and the future of Nova Roma in which those folks who tried to loot our treasury are out...and not allowed back in to sow discord!

Vale,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92195 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

S.

I understand what they say in 100% but your words contradicted to this because you wrote that we should call them what they are (they disappeared). So you were speaking in a way that could be understood in two ways.

And, again: I did not insist they be called disappeared. I suggested it was the clearest term, but I have also specifically stated that I have other suggestions to call them: I said "Inactive Citizen" is the best fitting word to describe them. Or if we want a *very clear* and official term, they should be called "Unregistered Citizens".

So Inactive Citizen or Unregistered Citizen. But not Socius, which is an *entirely* different thing. A Socius is a member of an ALLIED organization, not of ours.

Vale!
Lentulus


Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
 
Ave,

You seriously do not seem to understand the point that Caninus and I are making.  In certain countries disappearing citizens = citizens killed by the state.  This is not going to be the term we are going to use.  Lentulus you try to be political and fail because you do not understand nuance.  This is not going to be the term we use.  

I can just see it now, on the Nova Roma revealed blog site..Nova Roma now sanctions "disappearing citizens."  

Publicity and marketing are important, Lentulus.  This is NOT going to be the term we use in regards to this classification of former citizen.

Respectfully,

Sulla




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92196 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Ave,

Do you not see that your third sentence just negated your first sentence? 

I swear at times I think I am talking to a child.  I know its probably the language issue, but come one.  I know why Caesar used the word Socius, because it is clear that using the term is a complete distinction from a Non-Citizen.  One is either a Socius or a Citizen.  You could not be both a Socius and a citizen.  I am perfectly fine with that term or a term for foreigner, but then one could be a Foreigner and a citizen, so that really doesnt work. 

Vale,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92197 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
SALVE!

However "socius" is latin term and it really means "allied", "associate", "partner".

VALE,
Sabinus


"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--------------------------------------------
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92198 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Ave,

I do understand that - I am very proficient in the knowledge my namesake had during the Social War that basically made his career.  But, I cannot think of a better term that would fit better.  Disappeared does not.

Foreigner does not, because one can be a foreigner and a citizen.  We need a word that clearly differentiates between the two.  One cannot be BOTH a Socius and a Citizen.  I am open to suggestions that makes this distinction clear.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92199 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Assidui - Citizens; registered in last census, taxpayer
Capite censi - Citizens; registered in last census, but non-taxpayer (Active Citizen)
Capite incensi - Citizens; not registered in last census (Inactive Citizen)
Socii - Former Citizens; resigned, removed, suspended, expelled, etc.
Prohibeo - Those deemed a threat to NR by the Senate by vote or nota or something
Probati - New Citizens; under probationary period
Perigrini - Non-Citizens; have applied for citizenship 

L VITELLIVS TRIARIVS

Citizen of Nova Roma
Dominus praefectus of Factio Veneta
Senator of Nova Roma
Governor of New Province to be Renamed (LOL)
Wikiworker extraordinaire 

"Quam bene vivas refert, non quam diu." 

(The important thing isn't how long you live, but how well you live) 

~ L. Annaeus Seneca


On Saturday, December 14, 2013 1:55 AM, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...  
Ave,

I do understand that - I am very proficient in the knowledge my namesake had during the Social War that basically made his career.  But, I cannot think of a better term that would fit better.  Disappeared does not.

Foreigner does not, because one can be a foreigner and a citizen.  We need a word that clearly differentiates between the two.  One cannot be BOTH a Socius and a Citizen.  I am open to suggestions that makes this distinction clear.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:41 PM, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92200 From: iulius_sabinus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Official call of the Pontifex Maximus.
SALVETE!


Based on the fact that Nova Roma need a Pontifex Maximus to handle his specific duties (example: convene and preside the Comitia Curiata), I, T. Iulius Sabinus pontifex, official call the current Pontifex Maximus, C. Petronius Dexter, to clarify his active or inactive status.
My official call starts now and ends on December 17th, 09.00 Rome time.
After that, if the Pontifex Maximus is unreponsive and taking in consideration there are more than 90 days from when the Pontifex Maximus posted for the last time, I will declare vacant the position of Pontifex Maximus.
In this case, in conformity with "Decretum pro qui in collegium pontificum et collegium augurum" point II, the Collegium Pontificum shall elect from among the pontifices a Pontifex Maximus.

VALETE,
T. Iulius Sabinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92201 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: SPEAKING LATIN
M. Caninus Cn. Lentulo s.p.d.

Then, of course, I stand corrected. My apologies. A scan of the list showed Severus and moderator together. Severus has a few posts this year in the nova-roma-latina list but those may have simply been sent to the moderator, which may have caused the scan to turn up his name as the moderator. Like most Yahoo lists in the Neo format, the member list is not available. The member list setting would need to be changed to allow non-members to view the member list of nova-roma-latina. 

Quadra has sent messages to the list earlier in the year. Given the lack of activity and rather small number of members I am not sure why he would be interested in the list unless the activity picked up substantially. The sodalitas list would be a better place for someone learning the language.


Robin Marquardt
Apr 28
View Source
Immo, ut omnes salutem!

Cognita lingua mea primo, memini, risum, canentes atque iterare verba denique et dulcis.

Nos igitur, qui fortunati sunt, ut moderatores et scibes in amicabiliter interventus.

Et suadere, ut ipse mihi bonum privatum, quod pertinet ad sermonem Latinum quis.

Ita scribo.

Possumusne CXXV annis vivere!
 
Habent a bonus diem,
Tiberius Marcius Quadra
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92202 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Official call of the Pontifex Maximus.
Avete omnes,
Pontifex Maximus? Is that the title of CAESAR? If yes, I graciously accept; not only as my divine & natural call, but also as a descendant of Rome's fourth king, Rex A. Marcius IV d'Romae circa 640.

1) I promise to uphold the office of Pontifex Maximus to fulfill my ancestor's title "The Good."

Here is my definition of good: Moral perfection in thought, word, and deed, obeying the vox ex Dei ob eius populum (voice of God through his people) with equality, so I can lead with maximum efficiency for a more magnificent Roman life, and as Mars is my father, if in error that I can be forgiven to save me from death and its justice.

2) And I promise to uphold the office of Pontifex Maximus with care, skill, strategy, and passion for all that is ROMA by Fortitudine et Fidelitate (Strength and Loyalty).

Gratias tibi ago,
Tiberius Marcius Quadra


 
 


On Saturday, December 14, 2013 5:23 PM, "iulius_sabinus@..." <iulius_sabinus@...  
SALVETE!

Based on the fact that Nova Roma need a Pontifex Maximus to handle his specific duties (example: convene and preside the Comitia Curiata), I, T. Iulius Sabinus pontifex, official call the current Pontifex Maximus, C. Petronius Dexter, to clarify his active or inactive status.
My official call starts now and ends on December 17th, 09.00 Rome time.
After that, if the Pontifex Maximus is unreponsive and taking in consideration there are more than 90 days from when the Pontifex Maximus posted for the last time, I will declare vacant the position of Pontifex Maximus.
In this case, in conformity with "Decretum pro qui in collegium pontificum et collegium augurum" point II, the Collegium Pontificum shall elect from among the pontifices a Pontifex Maximus.

VALETE,
T. Iulius Sabinus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92203 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Salvete!

Since "Socius" meant someone in a form of alliance with Rome, it does not appear appropriate for use to describe a person who is basically a hostile deportee.

How about "excensus" as a description for a citizen who simply withdraws or fails to register, and "exsilius" for someone temporarily or permanently ejected from our citizenry?

Valete!
Quadratus




To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: lvtriarius@...
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2013 23:12:43 -0800
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

 

Assidui - Citizens; registered in last census, taxpayer
Capite censi - Citizens; registered in last census, but non-taxpayer (Active Citizen)
Capite incensi - Citizens; not registered in last census (Inactive Citizen)
Socii - Former Citizens; resigned, removed, suspended, expelled, etc.
Prohibeo - Those deemed a threat to NR by the Senate by vote or nota or something
Probati - New Citizens; under probationary period
Perigrini - Non-Citizens; have applied for citizenship 

L VITELLIVS TRIARIVS

Citizen of Nova Roma
Dominus praefectus of Factio Veneta
Senator of Nova Roma
Governor of New Province to be Renamed (LOL)
Wikiworker extraordinaire 

"Quam bene vivas refert, non quam diu." 

(The important thing isn't how long you live, but how well you live) 

~ L. Annaeus Seneca


On Saturday, December 14, 2013 1:55 AM, Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...  
Ave,

I do understand that - I am very proficient in the knowledge my namesake had during the Social War that basically made his career.  But, I cannot think of a better term that would fit better.  Disappeared does not.

Foreigner does not, because one can be a foreigner and a citizen.  We need a word that clearly differentiates between the two.  One cannot be BOTH a Socius and a Citizen.  I am open to suggestions that makes this distinction clear.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 11:41 PM, iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@...




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92204 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Candidacy to Consul
Salvete Omnes,

I thank everyone who has responded in support of my Candidacy running for Consul.

I want to encourage everyone to vote C. Aemilius Crassus, who I have known a very long time.  And I am honored to call him a friend.  Over the years I have come to find Crassus dependable, honest, and a genuinely caring individual.  Yes we differ in some views but you know what this is  also okay.  Because we respect each other's views enough to talk out differences with one another (if the need were to arise) and also be able to see different things the other may not see.  

I support C. Aemilius Crassus 150% for Consul and I encourage others to do same. 

As also the other Consular Candidate, I am also willing to answer questions for those who have them.  

Valete bene,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia 



--
"De mortuis nil nisi bonum"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92205 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Official call of the Pontifex Maximus.

C. Petronius T. Sabino salutem,


I am always assiduus but I took a while far from Internet and Nova Roma. I will convene the Comitia Curiata when the new magistrates will be elected. I have many mails to read and the new format of Yahoo does not help nor for mails neither for groups... I hope one day Nova Roma will have its proper and easier communications setting. Optime vale.


--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XIX Kalendas Ianuarias MMDCCLXVI 

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92206 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Official call of the Pontifex Maximus.
SALVE ET SALVETE!

Thank you very much for answer.

VALE ET VALETE,
Sabinus

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--------------------------------------------
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92207 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Official call of the Pontifex Maximus.
Ave,

No Quadra,

You really need to broaden your vision beyond just Latin.  Check out the website.  You will see Nova Roma has a Pontifex Maximus who has basically gone Missing.  Sabinus is trying to track the man down since it has been about 2-3 months since any of us has heard from him.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92208 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Ave,

Those terms work under the constraints that I mentioned above.   Since one cannot be both an exsilius and a citizen at the same time.  

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92209 From: iulius_sabinus Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Questions for consuls candidates.
SALVETE!

Consuls candidates, based of your availability, as was stated in your candidacy messages, I have a set of three questions for you. Here they are:

1. Which are the ideas you have to increase the level of citizens participation in the daily life of Nova Roma?
2. Describe what you mean by and how you will use imperium once you will be invested with it?
3. What do you mean by "the growth of the Roman Religion in Nova Roma"?

VALETE,
Sabinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92210 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change

C. Petronius Cn. Lentulo salutem dicit,


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92211 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change
Ave Dexter,

Glad you returned.  Just wanted to point out that there is nothing preventing magistrates from conducting elections in July.  All the proposed Constitutional change does is state when the elections MUST begin.  But it places no restrictions on conducting elections earlier in the calendar.

I know you mentioned this in the Senate Policy Committee, but I think it was during that debate that you went silent so it never got discussed further beyond the preliminary discussion.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92212 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: Discussion of the Proposed Constitutional Change

Ave Sulla,


Glad to read you again. I know that nothing in the Constitution prevents a magistrate to call consuls election in July, but we may see this Roman republican custom is not in use or in practice in Nova Roma since its beginning.


Vale.


--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XIX Kalendas Ianuarias MMDCCLXVI

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92213 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: OT message

C. Maria Caeca C. Petronio Dextero Pontifici Maximo S. P. D.

 

I am happy to see that you have returned, Pontifex.  As I mentioned in my private note to you, I was concerned, but I’m glad to see that you seem to be in good health.

Vale quam optime!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92214 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: OT message
Wecome back Pontifici Maximo!
HAIL CAESAR
Tiberius Marcius Quadra


On Sunday, December 15, 2013 3:53 AM, cmc <c.mariacaeca@...  
C. Maria Caeca C. Petronio Dextero Pontifici Maximo S. P. D.
 
I am happy to see that you have returned, Pontifex.  As I mentioned in my private note to you, I was concerned, but I’m glad to see that you seem to be in good health.
Vale quam optime!
C. Maria Caeca


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92215 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-14
Subject: Re: OT message

C. Petronius Mariae Caecae et Ti. Quadrae salutem,


Thank you for your greetings. I am in good health and I am happy in my life. More, next year I will be 55 old year and I will get my "old-age" pension. After 32 working and contribution years I will get the right to be more free. So next year I plan to come once more to the USA visiting my friends and going round some States. Valete optime.


--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XVIII Kalendas Ianuarias MMDCCLXVI

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92216 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Questions for consuls candidates.
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia T. Iulio Sabino Omnibusque S.P.D.

These were good questions Sabine and thank you for asking them.  See my responses for each question.




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92217 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Questions for consuls candidates.
SALVE!

Thank you for answers.

VALE,
Sabinus

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--------------------------------------------
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92218 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Consualia
M. Pompeius Caninus quiritibus salutem.

A brief introduction on Consus from Nova Roma's Wiki:

Consus was the protector of grains and (subterranean) storage bins (silos), and as such was represented by a corn seed.
His altar was placed beneath the ground (or, according to other sources, simply covered with earth, which was swept off at His festival) near the Circus Maximus in Rome. The altar was unearthed only during the Consualia, His festival which took place on August 21 (and another one on December 15). Mule or horse races were the main event of the festival because the mule and the horse were Consus' sacred animals. Horses and mules were crowned with chaplets of flowers, and forbidden to work.

Consus' name has no certain etymology down to the present time. This name seems to be Etruscan or Sabine in origin. It seems that Consus' name is really related to the one of Ops as Consivia (or Consiva), itself related to "crops, seeding" (Latin conserere ("to sow"). According to Varro "the Consualia are so named after Consus." Shortly after His own festivals the ones for Ops, the Opiconsivia or Opalia, were held every August 25 and December 19, these being the periods respectively of the reaping and the seeding of crops.

Consus also became a god associated with secret conferences, perhaps due to a common misinterpretation of his name. The Latins (Romans) associated Consus' name with consilium ("councils, synagogues, assemblies; place where councils assemble"). This word should not be confused with "counsel" ("advice"). It in fact expresses the idea of "sitting together" (consentes), "being together" (con-sum) or perhaps "called together, conclaimed" (con-calare). The connection of Consus with these secret councils is attested by Servius "Consus is however the god of councils." As such, it seems that Consus was a member of the council of the Di Consentes ("Council of the Gods") formed by six gods and six goddesses which assembled in order to assist Iuppiter in making great decisions such as destroying Troy or Atlantis with a flood. This tradition is due to the Etruscans, but is also widely attested in Greece as well, for instance, in Homer.

A brief introduction for today's festival, Consualia, which is celebrated on 21 August and 15 December:

Consualia, a festival, with games, celebrated by the Romans, according to Festus, Ovid (Fast. III.199), and others, in honour of Consus, the god of secret deliberations, or, according to Livy (I.9), of Neptunus Equestris. Plutarch (Quaest. Rom. 45), Dionysius of Halicarnassus (II.31), and the Pseudo Asconius, however (ad Cic. in Verr. p142, ed. Orelli), say that Neptunus Equestris and Consus were only different names for one and the same deity. It was solemnised every year in the circus, by the symbolical ceremony of uncovering an altar dedicated to the god, which was buried in the earth. For Romulus, who was considered as the founder of the festival, was said to have discovered an altar in the earth on that spot (cf. Niebuhr, Hist. Rom. vol. I notes 629 and 630). The solemnity took place on the 21st of Augusta with horse and chariot races, and libations were poured into the flames which consumed the sacrifices. During these festive games, horses and mules were not allowed to do any work, and were adorned with garlands of flowers. It was at their first celebration that, according to the ancient legend, the Sabine maidens were carried off (Varro, De Ling. Lat. VI.20; Dionys. I.33.2; Cic. De Rep. II.7). Virgil (Aen. VIII.636), in speaking of the rape of the Sabines, describes it as having occurred during the celebration of the Circensian games, which can only be accounted for by supposing that the great Circensian games, in subsequent times, superseded the ancient Consualia; and that thus the poet substituted games of his own time for ancient ones " a favourite practice with Virgil; or that he only meant to say the rape took place at the well-known festival in the circus (the Consualia), without thinking of the ludi Circenses, properly so called. - Smith's Dictionary





Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92219 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Modern mule race for those who might be interested
Marcus Pompeius Caninus quiritibus sal.

This video shows a modern day mule race in California:


More information about modern day mule racing can be found at:





Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92220 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia

Salve Canine!

 

Thank you for posting this!  You might want to consider also sharing it with the Forum Hospitum and the Religio Romana lists.

 

 

Vale bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92221 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Consualia 2766 mule race finals
M. Pompeius Caninus quiritibus sal.

We have a report from the Circus Maximus on the mule race finals....



It has been a crisp December day so far in Rome. Here at the Circus Maximus the temperature is 11 degrees Celsius with a clear sky and light wind. The stands are packed and the merchants seem to be doing a fair amount of business just a couple of days before Saturnalia begins. The festivities began at just before 8:00am this morning with a pompa followed by the ritual uncovering of the altar. Now, it's just a few minutes after 1:00pm and we have the finals for the mule race.

The drivers and trainers were busy this morning but the teams are ready now. Each team will consist of two mules pulling a chariot and driver. As you can see at the gates, there are four teams in the final, which will be three circuits of the track.

In the VIP box at the finish line is Gaia Maria Caeca, who heads up the Albata factio. She has her chariot Reliable in this race driven by Ivan of Sarmatia. Our Vestal is looking fine today and seems to be in very good spirits. We've seen her not only cheering on Albata in the earlier races today but also extending her legendary hospitality to some member so the other factiones. Win or lose, you know she will be ready to throw a party with the finest food and drink tonight. Praesina and Russata are not represented in the mule final today. But we have three teams from Veneta to follow. Decimus Hortensius Catus is represented by his driver Torvus and chariot Caelestis. Tiberius Vitellius Triarius, the son of Senator Lucius Vitellius Triarius, will be driving The Midnight Flyer himself. And the sponsor of these games, Marcus Pompeius Caninus has caused a bit of scandal with his chariot Currus Bibonis driven by Coruncanius Asellio. Senator Caninus is in the VIP box with his daughter Tita Pompeia Canina close at his side. It looks like he may be in a rather animated discussion with the Vestal.

The chariots are poised at the starting gate. All of the drivers and handlers have indicated they are ready. The trumpets sound, the gates burst open and they're off. It is a very fast start with Currus Bibonis and Reliable completing the lap neck and neck. The Midnight Flyer is running a few lengths behind the leaders with Caelestis another length and half back. Coming around the second turn in the second lap The Midnight Flyer has slipped past Reliable and looks to be heading into the lead. But his tactics are rather agressive and as he.... oh, no... The Midnight Flyer has push Currus Bibonis into the wall and it looks like Senator Caninus will not have a chariot finishing the race today. The axle has been broken but Asellio has managed to rein his team in and none of the other chariots have been involved in the accident. The Midnight Flyer has managed to recover and crosses the line of the second lap in the lead, followed by Reliable and Caelestis. Senator Triarius can be seen speaking with Senator Caninus in the VIP box but Caninus appears to be smiling and in good spirits. On the track, Reliable seems to have lost a bit of confidence and The Midnight Flyer seems to have lost a bit of power. The chariots are rounding the final turn. And Reliable has slipped in under The Midnight Flyer to take the lead! Caelestis has also squeezed in and passed The Midnight Flyer.

There you have it citizens! Albata is victorious! Senators Triarius and Caninus are congratulating Gaia Maria Caeca for her win. And, what's this? Little Tita Pompeia Canina is standing on a chair behind the Vestal and she is emptying a bottle of falnerian over the Vestals' head! Yes, ladies and gentlemen, I believe there will be a fine party held this evening. That's all for mule races today. A little later we will have the finals for the chariot races so stay tuned.
 


Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92222 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia
Caninus Caecae sal.

Hopefully next year I can do this again in a bit more timely manner. We should have a priest for Mars then so, I would like to include some ritual and/or devotional material with you, as our Vestal, and him in a opening ceremony and pompa.

Bene vale!
 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92223 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 mule race finals

Salvete!

 

Albata Victoria!  Semper Albata!

 

Um … have I just been … baptized???  BTW, I’ve got a great career choice for you, dear little girl!  Lots of benefits, but you have to sign up for 30 years, and there are a few other requirements.  Why don’t you just come with me, now? J

 

Congratulations to the other participants, and oh yes, there will be a party tonight!  Young Ivan is probably the happiest among us, because he looks to get a promotion and has mucked ut his last stable, I think.

 

Valete Bene!

C. Maria Caeca, all *wet*!

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92224 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia

Salve Canine!

 

That sounds awesome, Canine …but the material you posted on Consus is eminently worth sharing!

 

Vale bene!

CMC, her really prefers her wine …in a wine cup!

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92225 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 mule race finals

Yes...It is nice to see Albata win something occasionally...LOL!  (As he whaps young Tiberius up side the head).

Congrats to Caeca and her team!  May the falernian ever flow!  (...oh wait, this is Consus' day, not Bacchus...hmmm)

Oh well...here's to Consus! (Downs a cup of falernian).

Valete optime,

 
L VITELLIVS TRIARIVS

Citizen of Nova Roma
Dominus praefectus of Factio Veneta
Senator of Nova Roma
Governor of New Province to be Renamed (LOL)
Wikiworker extraordinaire 

"Quam bene vivas refert, non quam diu." 

(The important thing isn't how long you live, but how well you live) 

~ L. Annaeus Seneca


On Sunday, December 15, 2013 8:37 PM, cmc <c.mariacaeca@...  
Salvete!
 
Albata Victoria!  Semper Albata!
 
Um … have I just been … baptized???  BTW, I’ve got a great career choice for you, dear little girl!  Lots of benefits, but you have to sign up for 30 years, and there are a few other requirements.  Why don’t you just come with me, now? J
 
Congratulations to the other participants, and oh yes, there will be a party tonight!  Young Ivan is probably the happiest among us, because he looks to get a promotion and has mucked ut his last stable, I think.
 
Valete Bene!
C. Maria Caeca, all *wet*!


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92226 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 mule race finals
Ave!

Oh please, once the wine starts flowing, thats all she wrote! LOL   I think that is our motto at the Back Alley....



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92227 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 mule race finals

Well, now.  Let’s see …1 Albata entry against *3* (count them!) Veneta entries …and who won?  Who?  I didn’t hear you!  Ah, yes …Albata! ALBATA!

 

At least you get to *drink* your Falernian!

 

Valete!

CMC

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92228 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-15
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 mule race finals
LOL!
 
L VITELLIVS TRIARIVS

Citizen of Nova Roma
Dominus praefectus of Factio Veneta
Senator of Nova Roma
Governor of New Province to be Renamed (LOL)
Wikiworker extraordinaire 

"Quam bene vivas refert, non quam diu." 

(The important thing isn't how long you live, but how well you live) 

~ L. Annaeus Seneca


On Sunday, December 15, 2013 11:51 PM, cmc <c.mariacaeca@...  
Well, now.  Let’s see …1 Albata entry against *3* (count them!) Veneta entries …and who won?  Who?  I didn’t hear you!  Ah, yes …Albata! ALBATA!
 
At least you get to *drink* your Falernian!
 
Valete!
CMC


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92229 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: OT message

(Senator Triarius assembles his personal guard and looks strangely at Quadra, as his entourage moves cautiously through the Forum...)

 
L VITELLIVS TRIARIVS

Citizen of Nova Roma
Dominus praefectus of Factio Veneta
Senator of Nova Roma
Governor of New Province to be Renamed (LOL)
Wikiworker extraordinaire 

"Quam bene vivas refert, non quam diu." 

(The important thing isn't how long you live, but how well you live) 

~ L. Annaeus Seneca


On Saturday, December 14, 2013 10:54 PM, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@...  
Wecome back Pontifici Maximo!
HAIL CAESAR
Tiberius Marcius Quadra


On Sunday, December 15, 2013 3:53 AM, cmc <c.mariacaeca@...
 
C. Maria Caeca C. Petronio Dextero Pontifici Maximo S. P. D.
 
I am happy to see that you have returned, Pontifex.  As I mentioned in my private note to you, I was concerned, but I’m glad to see that you seem to be in good health.
Vale quam optime!
C. Maria Caeca




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92230 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals
M. Pompeius Caninus quiritibus sal.

We have a report from the Circus Maximus on the final chariot race....



Salvete! The course has been cleared and the track is ready for the main event of these Consuales Ludi. Eight chariots, seven laps, one champion.

The chariots are lined up at the gates from left to right: Orodes of Parthia, driving Bellator for Veneta, Amadian on Russata's Taurus III, Salaco on Veneta's Coccyx, Sirenia on Veneta's Stella Diurna, Titus Iulius Sabinus Crassus on Aprilis for Russata, on Albus Ventrus for Albata, Charmion on Veneta's Murmur, and Volusus of Ostia on Velox puteolanus sors II for Veneta. Praesina is notably absent from today's finals! A few of the owners had multiple chariots running today but in the finals but none of the owners have more than one chariot in the finals today.

The handlers are signalling ready. The crowd has quieted for a moment. The mappa drops and off they go! Right at the start Senator Placidus's charioteer Amadian rushes ahead to lead the pack through the first lap. In the second lap, coming out of the second turn Velox takes the lead! The chariot Velox is followed by Taurus III, Bellator, Stella Diurna, Albus Ventrus, Murmur, Aprilis, and Coccyx. As they run through their third lap it is Aprilis in the lead followed closely by Murmur. Now in the fourth lap, several chariots are close to the spina and there may be some difficulty completing the turn. Bellator pulls out of the turn in the lead, Velox is two lengths behind, Stella Diurna and Albus Ventrus are neck and neck in third place with Aprilis only a head behind them. They are running quickly through the fifth lap and Albus Ventrus has surged into the lead after cutting off Bellator and leaving Velox in second place. Halfway through the sixth lap Bellator reclaims the lead! Velox keeps second position as Murmur, Coccyx and Taurus III fight for third position. And now we are in the final lap and Taurus III, Coccyx, Bellator and Stella Diurna are pouring on the speed and fighting for position. And Murmur hits Velox! Velox has a cracked wheel and is visibly running slower now. At the finish it is Stella Diurna! Bellator takes second place, Coccyx takes third place, Taurus III is just a nose behind in fourth place. Albus Ventrus takes fifth place, Murmur is finishes in sixth place, Aprilis is seventh and Velox limps across the line to finish in eighth place.

Senator Aeternia is jumping up and screaming something in the VIP box as Senator Triarius and our Vestal Caeca appear to be issuing orders to their staff with rather stern expressions! Senator Caninus is shaking hands with Titus Iulius Sabinus Crassus and Decimus Hortensius Catus, who he invited to the VIP box to watch the final race.

So, ladies and gentlemen, in this edition of the Consuales Ludi Sirenia wins on Stella Diurna. Congratulations to Senator Aeternia and to Factio Veneta! That's all we have for the ludi today. Thank you for joining us!
 


Marcus Pompeius Caninus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92231 From: dhcocoa3 Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Support for Consul
Salvete et onmes,

I wanted to state a position of support for Aeternia for Consul as I have had the pleasure of interacting with her over the course of the past few years, and find her to be an incredibly trusting, responsible, dedicated, and sincere person. I can honestly say that she says what she means, and means what she says, which is refreshing in todays day and age.

Valete,

Lucia Decia Flora
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92232 From: cn_corn_lent Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

Salve, consul!

Here is what you did not understand, consul: a disappeared citizen (or say "inactive citizen" or "unregistered citizen") IS a citizen, it's just that we could not locate him or her during the census. While a resigned citizen is not a citizen but a former citizen. So distinction must be made, and I can't see your problem with this. And it was not Caesar who used this word because this term has been in the law for about 13 years, and a decade of experience tells us that we should change the word because it does not reflect the reality and practice.

The realistic terminology should look like this:

1. Active or Census Registered Citizens:
- these are the full right current citizens of NR

2. Inactive or Unregistered Citizens (this is what is usually called "disappeared"):
- these are currently not in possession of their citizen rights but are automatically full right citizens once they register themselves. So they have rights in theory, but don't have in practice until they satisfy the registration criteria.

3. Former Citizens: this includes everyone who was but is not a citizen anymore because lost his rights, either by resignation or by banishment:
- these are not citizens, neither in theory, nor in practice, in no way.

There is no other possibility besides these 3 categories, unless we make a contract with another community to which we grant Ally (Socius) status.

I hope now you see my point which is nothing else than the description of how the things worked in the last 10+ years. The term socius was in the law but it was never used, exactly because it was an impossible concept from day one.


Vale!
Cn. Lentulus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92233 From: cn_corn_lent Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

Salve iterum, consul!


I have provided a couple of suggestions, but the term Socius needs to be broken down to two different things: 1) resigned/banished citizens and 2) citizens who missed to answer the census (currently called disappeared in the censorial jargon). These two categories in the current law are called both Socius, which is insane, and if there is something that really needed to be changed then it is this.

So the word Socius was used in two function, therefore I give the more correct terms for each of the two functions.

Firstly, in place of the term Socius when referring to resigned/banished citizens I suggested: "Former Citizen". Nothing can be clearer.

Secondly, in place of "Socius" when referring to citizens who missed the census, I suggested: "Inactive Citizen" or "Unregistered Citizen", and I could add "Suspended Citizen", "Unavailable Citizen". If you still need more suggestions, I'm glad to think and come up with others which all will be better than Socius.

Vale!

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92234 From: cn_corn_lent Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

Salve, consul!

Here is what you did not understand, consul: a disappeared citizen (or say "inactive citizen" or "unregistered citizen") IS a citizen, it's just that we could not locate him or her during the census. While a resigned citizen is not a citizen but a former citizen. So distinction must be made, and I can't see your problem with this. And it was not Caesar who used this word because this term has been in the law for about 13 years, and a decade of experience tells us that we should change the word because it does not reflect the reality and practice.

The realistic terminology should look like this:

1. Active or Census Registered Citizens:
- these are the full right current citizens of NR

2. Inactive or Unregistered Citizens (this is what is usually called "disappeared"):
- these are currently not in possession of their citizen rights but are automatically full right citizens once they register themselves. So they have rights in theory, but don't have in practice until they satisfy the registration criteria.

3. Former Citizens: this includes everyone who was but is not a citizen anymore because lost his rights, either by resignation or by banishment:
- these are not citizens, neither in theory, nor in practice, in no way.

There is no other possibility besides these 3 categories, unless we make a contract with another community to which we grant Ally (Socius) status.

I hope now you see my point which is nothing else than the description of how the things worked in the last 10+ years. The term socius was in the law but it was never used, exactly because it was an impossible concept from day one.


Vale!
Cn. Lentulus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92235 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
SALVE ET SALVETE!

In my opinion this works fine: Active - Inactive - Former.

VALETE,
Sabinus

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--------------------------------------------
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92236 From: Belle Morte Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals
Salvete,

Wait I actually won?!?

Valete bene,
Aeternia 

Sent from my iPhone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92237 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals

Salve Aeternia!

 

Yes, Dear, you won!  It would seem that the ladies rule this festival, so I think we should do a cooperative party, to which, of course, all are invited, including the drivers who took part in the races!

 

Vale et valete!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92238 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals
Caninus Aeterniae sal.

Yes, you can see the official results at http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Consuales_Ludi_2766_AUC_(Nova_Roma) in the Wiki. I am not at all sure how it happened but somehow you and Caeca beat out some of the toughest competitors, including Triarius. Obviously, Fortuna was favoring the women in these ludi. But results like this may call my honesty into question since I have worked as a scribe for both of you in the past. I hope I can have a lot more entries in the next ludi I sponsor. Anyway, congratulations on your victory! You definitely deserve it! 

Fac valeas! 

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92239 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Official Results - Consuales Ludi 2766 AUC
M. Pompeius Caninus quiritibus sal.

You can see the official results of the Consuales Ludi 2766 AUC at http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Consuales_Ludi_2766_AUC_(Nova_Roma) in the Wiki. 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92240 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Test Post
Testing, testing, ....
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92241 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Test Post
Just sending a test message :)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92242 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals
That is because the Honey Badger wasn't in the race. :)  


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92243 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Test Post

IT WORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Oh, thank you Quadratus and Consul for helping me!  I have spent 9 months trying to figure this out, and now, finally, I get 1 copy of each ML message!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Plurimas Gratias

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92244 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals

Salvete!

 

Honey Badger …great served with BBQ sauce over rice!

 

Valete!

CMC

 

And it was because we ladies get the job *done*, LOL!

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92245 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals
LOL if he doesnt eat you first lol :)


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92246 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Consualia 2766 chariot race finals

Salve Sulla!

 

 

Well, certain challenges make cooking … interesting!

 

Vale bene!

CMC

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92247 From: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: SATVRNALIA, 12/17/2013, 12:00 am
Reminder from:   Nova-Roma Yahoo Group
 
Title:   SATVRNALIA
 
Date:   Tuesday December 17, 2013
Time:   12:00 am - 12:00 am (GMT) Greenwich Mean Time - Dublin / Edinburgh / Lisbon / London
Notes:   Io Saturnalia!!

"...but suddenly shouted with one accord the well-known cry, 'Io Saturnalia'... " Cassius Dio LX.19.3

Today is the first day of Saturnalia!
 
Copyright © 2013  Yahoo Inc. All Rights Reserved | Terms of Service | Privacy Policy
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92248 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-16
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

Salve, consul!

Here is what you did not understand, consul: a disappeared citizen (or say "inactive citizen" or "unregistered citizen") IS a citizen, it's just that we could not locate him or her during the census. While a resigned citizen is not a citizen but a former citizen. So distinction must be made, and I can't see your problem with this. And it was not Caesar who used this word because this term has been in the law for about 13 years, and a decade of experience tells us that we should change the word because it does not reflect the reality and practice.

The realistic terminology should look like this:

1. Active or Census Registered Citizens:
- these are the full right current citizens of NR

2. Inactive or Unregistered Citizens (this is what is usually called "disappeared"):
- these are currently not in possession of their citizen rights but are automatically full right citizens once they register themselves. So they have rights in theory, but don't have in practice until they satisfy the registration criteria.

3. Former Citizens: this includes everyone who was but is not a citizen anymore because lost his rights, either by resignation or by banishment:
- these are not citizens, neither in theory, nor in practice, in no way.

There is no other possibility besides these 3 categories, unless we make a contract with another community to which we grant Ally (Socius) status.

I hope now you see my point which is nothing else than the description of how the things worked in the last 10+ years. The term socius was in the law but it was never used, exactly because it was an impossible concept from day one.


Vale!
Cn. Lentulus



Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
 
Ave,

Do you not see that your third sentence just negated your first sentence? 

I swear at times I think I am talking to a child.  I know its probably the language issue, but come one.  I know why Caesar used the word Socius, because it is clear that using the term is a complete distinction from a Non-Citizen.  One is either a Socius or a Citizen.  You could not be both a Socius and a citizen.  I am perfectly fine with that term or a term for foreigner, but then one could be a Foreigner and a citizen, so that really doesnt work. 

Vale,

Sulla




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92249 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Ave,

I understand perfectly clear,  I daresay more clear than the 3 times you have had to send this same message.

Our citizenship records are extensive, we do not rely on just one mode of contact.  We have at least 3 and potentially 6 (when you add in all the IMs).  We have postal addresses, phone numbers, cell phone numbers, email addresses with alternates.

If we cannot FIND them, it is because they do not want to be found.  

Vale,

Sulla



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92250 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Caninus Sullae Lentulo omnibusque sal.

More than half of the 'inactive citizens' are very likely to have either abandoned Nova Roma and moved on to focus on some other aspect of their lives or have forgotten Nova Roma because it was never a significant part of their lives. Less than half - probably less than 20% - are likely to have a continuing interest in Nova Roma citizenship. They do not want to be found, as Sulla said. If the 'inactive citizens' cared about their citizenship then they would contact one of magistrates to update their contact information at least once every couple of years. I do not like to see someone who may be inactive or busy with other matters to lose their citizenship or be moved into a category like 'former citizen' but each citizen has a duty to maintain some level of contact so their citizenship status is clearly understood and to keep the censores aware of their contact information.

We could do more to make sure citizens are aware of the need to maintain up to date contact information. The use of English may cause some problems for citizens who cannot read or write English well but just about everything that we do on an international level is done using English. Other languages are used at the local or maybe even provincial level but full participation in Nova Roma is difficult for anyone without some understanding of English. We can certainly discuss this issue in a separate thread in the Main List.

Most of the inactive citizens have lost their desire to be citizens and have not bothered to let the censores know they have left Nova Roma.

Facite valeatis!
 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92251 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Ave Caninus,

I agree with most everything you say in your post, but I do take issue with your second paragraph.  Assuming that issue is valid they would have had the same issues in filling out the application in the first place.

That issue aside, I do agree with you.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92252 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

Salvete Omnes!

 

I haven’t looked at these recently, but I know that at one time, our main page had been translated into several languages.  Did that continue after we moved from the old site to the WIKI?  If so, then wouldn’t the application for citizenship have also been translated into several languages?  Also, as I remember, when possible, the Censura used to contact citizens in languages other than English when appropriate. 

 

If anything, this care would tend, I think, to reinforce Caninus’ point.  While we did, occasionally hear from a citizen who had let his/her citizenship lapse due to neglect and asked that it be reinstated upon contact by the Censura, most who did not respond or whose contact information had not been updated seem to have done so voluntarily.

 

Valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92253 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

Ave,

Assuming that has happened, which I'm not sure that it did beyond the first year or two. This has been one of the long standing issues that I've encountered this year. People assume that oh yay we passed a law and that's it.  That is only the first step.  Once passed it must be implemented and we, the organization has not been the most diligent in following through, with all respect.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92254 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

Ave Consul,

 

I’m sorry, Sir, but this post confused me.  What law?  I’m not sure if you are referring to the WIKI which, I think, was an administrative initiative, (though I could be wrong about that) or a policy.  I know that English is and has always been the “working” language of NR, but I also know that it has been my observation that most magistrates make every attempt to communicate with citizens or noncitizens in a way that makes communication as easy as possible, either by using another language when possible, or even resorting to Google translate.  My point was that anyone who wants to communicate with us *can*, and that such things as not updating contact information are voluntary choices on the part of the individual.

 

Valete!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92255 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Ave,

I am talking about really any law. :)

It was an example of the problem I have encountered continously this year.  I find a problem like the Viginstixeri issue for example that Nova Roma has passed a law to "solve a problem."  Only it never really gets implmented because if it had the magistrates would have realized OOPS it creates other problems.  This is the overlying problem that Nova Roma has experienced.  It goes like this:

Step 1.  Nova Roma magistrates see a problem.
Step 2.  Nova Roma magistrates write and the People pass a law
Step 3.  ?????
Step 4.  Everyone gets Rich! (Just kidding)  

Step 3 is the missing step...the actual implementation.  Occasionally we have some laws that get implemented, but generally there are various shades of Grey between NON-Implementation vs the in the beginning the law gets to be implemented until people realize it takes actual work to implement in which case some of those people decide to lose interest because implementation isn't flashy and its time to move on to a new more flashy thing.

The language thing, is something that I have no real confidence was genuinely implemented beyond the first year it was passed, way back during the time when I was Consul a decade ago.  There might be some languages that have some information, but it would be spotty, inconsistent, and just plain safer to assume that most languages are not represented on the NR Wiki.  Even the multi-language email lists start off with a flurry of activity and then fade into the background, its not a criticism it just is a statement of fact.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92256 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Salvete omnes!

I believe that there is also another mechanism to try to contact citizens who have not registered for the census. This is to instruct Provincial Governors to send an enquiry to a list of names provided by the Censors. This the Provincial Governor or their staff contacts the missing citizen in their own language and obtains that citizen's decision on whether to respond to the census or not.

The Provincial staff could use either the email address provided, or the Provincial mailing list, or directory enquiries to try to contact the missing citizen. In this way some could be found and encouraged to register. Some of course might be uncontactable.

Valete omnes!

Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92257 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Roman Virtue: Industria

Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus omnibus in his foris S.P.D.

      Salvete omnes, and IO SATURNALIA! I hope everyone is enjoying a wonderful holiday season on this Saturnalia, the day that the ancient Roman poet Catullus called "the best of days!" I'm a day late, but welcome back to the Roman Virtues Project - an ongoing exploration and discussion of the Roman virtues and what it means to be Roman, undertaken by the citizens and prospective citizens of Nova Roma! Today, however, the next virtue on the list for discussion is a virtue that is the opposite of the holiday we are now celebrating - as the Saturnalia are a rest from our labors, so today we will be discussing the Roman virtue of industria:

Roman Virtue: Industria 

Our website says of Industria: "Industriousness" Hard work.

The Oxford Latin Dictionary defines Industria as it relates to Roman virtue thus:

"1. Diligent activity directed to some purpose, application, industry, etc . . .
2. Purposefulness . . ."

So what does this mean for us as Nova Romans today?

     The Romans valued hard work. They considered industria a virtue, one without which Rome would never have achieved any measure of greatness. Purposeful work is necessary to meaningful human existence - we simply would not be human if we never needed to work for anything. Mythological golden ages almost always include the notion that the people themselves were different "in those days." So the capacity, the willingness, and the inclination towards purposeful work was much admired by the Romans. We should, as Romans, aspire to industry, to industria, even if we don't always succeed as much as we would like. But it is still an ideal for which we strive.

     What are your thoughts on industria? How to we practice industria in our public and private lives, as Romans? Who are the paragons and exemplars of industria from Roma Antiqua and Nova Roma? I can think of acknowledged masters of industria (at least in the political arena!) like the colleague of my consulship, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar, or this year's consul without a colleague, Lucius Cornelius Sulla. Who else comes to mind?  I look forward to hearing your ideas!

Data Phoenice Saturnalibus (a.d. XVI Kalendas Ianuarias anno A.U.C. MMDCCLXVI)

Sent from Phoenix on the Saturnalia (December 17th, 2013 C.E.)

 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92258 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

Lentulus Sullae et Canino sal.


It was a Yahoo glitch, it happens sometimes that Yahoo does not send the message to the group, but only hours, sometimes days after. I waited hours, and my sent message has still not appeared. I re-sent, still nothing, I re-sent again, and they started to appear.

As to the discussed topic:

The fault is with the citizens who don't answer the census, that's clear. This is why their get inactivated. So, where is the discrepancy here? It's a correct thing. I did not suggest that failure to answer the census should come without serious consequences. I only suggested that the proposed law should use the correct terminology.

Valete!




Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
 
Ave,

I understand perfectly clear,  I daresay more clear than the 3 times you have had to send this same message.

Our citizenship records are extensive, we do not rely on just one mode of contact.  We have at least 3 and potentially 6 (when you add in all the IMs).  We have postal addresses, phone numbers, cell phone numbers, email addresses with alternates.

If we cannot FIND them, it is because they do not want to be found.  

Vale,

Sulla





Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92259 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Salvete!

I like the idea of asking provincial officials to contact the unregistered.  Perhaps they should also contact those who have registered and urge them to become assiduus.

Valete!
Quadratus


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: jbshr1pwa@...
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:56:25 +0000
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

 
Salvete omnes!

I believe that there is also another mechanism to try to contact citizens who have not registered for the census. This is to instruct Provincial Governors to send an enquiry to a list of names provided by the Censors. This the Provincial Governor or their staff contacts the missing citizen in their own language and obtains that citizen's decision on whether to respond to the census or not.

The Provincial staff could use either the email address provided, or the Provincial mailing list, or directory enquiries to try to contact the missing citizen. In this way some could be found and encouraged to register. Some of course might be uncontactable.

Valete omnes!

Crispus