Selected messages in Nova-Roma group. Dec 17-31, 2013

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92259 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92260 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92261 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92262 From: cn_corn_lent Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92263 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92264 From: Chad Axe Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Roman Virtue: Industria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92265 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92266 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92267 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Roman Virtue: Industria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92268 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Roman Virtue: Industria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92269 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Question for Praetor Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92270 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92271 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Roman Virtue: Industria
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92272 From: Ugo Coppola Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Question for Praetor Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92273 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Question for Praetor Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92274 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Question for Praetor Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92275 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Question for Praetor Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92276 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Question for Praetor Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92277 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Question for Praetor Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92278 From: Ugo Coppola Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Question for Praetor Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92279 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Final Draft - Proposed Constitutional Change
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92280 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92281 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Questions for the Censorial Candidate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92282 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Questions for the Praetorial Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92283 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Support for Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92284 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Questions for the Censorial Candidate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92285 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92286 From: Ugo Coppola Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Questions for the Praetorial Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92287 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92288 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Questions for the Praetorial Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92289 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Questions for consuls candidates.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92290 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92291 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Questions for the Praetorial Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92292 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Io Saturnalia!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92293 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92294 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92295 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92296 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92297 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92298 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92299 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92300 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92301 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92302 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92303 From: dalehamm Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Official Results - Consuales Ludi 2766 AUC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92304 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92305 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92306 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92307 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92308 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92309 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92310 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92311 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92312 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92313 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92314 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92315 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92316 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92317 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92318 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92319 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92320 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92321 From: Belle Morte Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92322 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92323 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92324 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92325 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92326 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92327 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92328 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Io Saturnalia!!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92329 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92330 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Questions for the Censorial Candidate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92331 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Questions for the Censorial Candidate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92332 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Questions for the Praetorial Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92333 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Questions for the Praetorial Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92334 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Questions for the Censorial Candidate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92335 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92336 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92337 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92338 From: gaius_pompeius_marcellus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Io Satunalia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92339 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92340 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92341 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92342 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Questions for the Censorial Candidate
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92343 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92344 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92345 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92346 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92347 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92348 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92349 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92350 From: Ugo Coppola Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Questions for the Praetorial Candidates
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92351 From: gaius_pompeius_marcellus Date: 2013-12-20
Subject: Yahoo groups
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92352 From: L. Livia Plauta Date: 2013-12-20
Subject: Resignation of citizenship
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92353 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-20
Subject: Re: Resignation of citizenship
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92354 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-20
Subject: Re: Resignation of citizenship
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92355 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-20
Subject: Report of the Senate session ended on 13 Dec 2013
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92356 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Decretum Pontificum de camilis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92357 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: Decretum Pontificum de camilis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92358 From: Arthur Waite Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Vote!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92359 From: James V Hooper Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: Vote!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92360 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: Vote!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92361 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: The vote
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92362 From: Quintus Caecilius Metellus Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: A Joyous Occasion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92363 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92364 From: Belle Morte Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92365 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92366 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92367 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: VOTE IS OPEN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92368 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: VOTE IS OPEN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92369 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: VOTE IS OPEN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92370 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: VOTE IS OPEN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92371 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92372 From: Nicole Panda Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Re: VOTE IS OPEN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92373 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Re: VOTE IS OPEN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92374 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Re: VOTE IS OPEN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92375 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Re: VOTE IS OPEN
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92376 From: Bruno Zani Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Aedilis plebis oath of office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92377 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Plebeian officials for 2767 AUC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92378 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Re: Plebeian officials for 2767 AUC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92379 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92380 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92381 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Re: Aedilis plebis oath of office
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92382 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92383 From: Arthur Waite Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Reminder to Vote: Comitia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92384 From: James V Hooper Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Re: Plebeian officials for 2767 AUC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92385 From: ti_cassius_atellus Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92386 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92387 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92388 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2013-12-24
Subject: The Senate of Nova Roma Is in Session
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92389 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-24
Subject: Merry, happy ...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92390 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-24
Subject: Re: [Nova_roma_] Merry, happy ...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92391 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-25
Subject: Re: [Nova_roma_] Merry, happy ...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92392 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-25
Subject: Re: [Nova_roma_] Merry, happy ...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92393 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-26
Subject: Voting Reminder
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92394 From: Tiberius Cassius Atellus Date: 2013-12-27
Subject: De Nominibus Provinciarum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92395 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-27
Subject: Re: De Nominibus Provinciarum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92396 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-27
Subject: Re: De Nominibus Provinciarum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92397 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-27
Subject: Vote closing
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92398 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: NR Pamphlet
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92399 From: Belle Morte Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: NR Pamphlet
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92400 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: NR Pamphlet
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92401 From: Belle Morte Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: NR Pamphlet
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92402 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: NR Pamphlet
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92403 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: NR Pamphlet
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92404 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: NR Pamphlet
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92405 From: Jiri Rys Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Edictum I - Appointment of Scribae
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92406 From: iulius_sabinus Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: The Collegium Pontificum December session report.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92407 From: Tiberius Cassius Atellus Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: De Nominibus Provinciarum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92408 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Edictum I - Revocation of AAe Edicts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92409 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: NR Pamphlet
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92410 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92411 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92412 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: De Nominibus Provinciarum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92413 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: De Nominibus Provinciarum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92414 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Edictum I - Revocation of AAe Edicts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92415 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: De Nominibus Provinciarum
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92416 From: Richard Dix Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Edictum I - Revocation of AAe Edicts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92417 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Edictum I - Revocation of AAe Edicts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92418 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Edictum I - Revocation of AAe Edicts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92419 From: Jiri Rys Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92420 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92421 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92422 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Edictum I - Revocation of AAe Edicts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92423 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Edictum I - Revocation of AAe Edicts
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92424 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: [Explorator] explorator 16.36-37
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92425 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92426 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-30
Subject: LUSTRUM of the CENSUS 2766 AUC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92427 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-30
Subject: Re: LUSTRUM of the CENSUS 2766 AUC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92428 From: iulius_sabinus Date: 2013-12-30
Subject: Convening the Comitia Curiata!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92429 From: iulius_sabinus Date: 2013-12-30
Subject: My thanks to Tullius Valerianus!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92430 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-31
Subject: Re: [Nova_roma_] LUSTRUM of the CENSUS 2766 AUC
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92431 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-31
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92432 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-31
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92433 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-31
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92434 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-31
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92259 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Salvete!

I like the idea of asking provincial officials to contact the unregistered.  Perhaps they should also contact those who have registered and urge them to become assiduus.

Valete!
Quadratus


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: jbshr1pwa@...
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:56:25 +0000
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

 
Salvete omnes!

I believe that there is also another mechanism to try to contact citizens who have not registered for the census. This is to instruct Provincial Governors to send an enquiry to a list of names provided by the Censors. This the Provincial Governor or their staff contacts the missing citizen in their own language and obtains that citizen's decision on whether to respond to the census or not.

The Provincial staff could use either the email address provided, or the Provincial mailing list, or directory enquiries to try to contact the missing citizen. In this way some could be found and encouraged to register. Some of course might be uncontactable.

Valete omnes!

Crispus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92260 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

Lentulus Claudio s. p. d.

Governors are expected to do it, I always conduct the census in my province and make sure people are kept in contact.

Perhaps this should be written in a law?

Vale!


Da: "charlesaronowitz@..." <charlesaronowitz@...
 
Salvete!

I like the idea of asking provincial officials to contact the unregistered.  Perhaps they should also contact those who have registered and urge them to become assiduus.

Valete!
Quadratus


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: jbshr1pwa@...
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2013 17:56:25 +0000
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

 
Salvete omnes!

I believe that there is also another mechanism to try to contact citizens who have not registered for the census. This is to instruct Provincial Governors to send an enquiry to a list of names provided by the Censors. This the Provincial Governor or their staff contacts the missing citizen in their own language and obtains that citizen's decision on whether to respond to the census or not.

The Provincial staff could use either the email address provided, or the Provincial mailing list, or directory enquiries to try to contact the missing citizen. In this way some could be found and encouraged to register. Some of course might be uncontactable.

Valete omnes!

Crispus




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92261 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Ave,

Governors should be involved in the Census already.  This is one of the reasons why there are Governors in the first place. 

Respectfully,
Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92262 From: cn_corn_lent Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
[This is a re-posting of my message which again did not appear to be sent by Yahoo to group members.]

Lentulus Sullae et Canino sal.


It was a Yahoo glitch, it happens sometimes that Yahoo does not send the message to the group, but only hours, sometimes days after. I waited hours, and my sent message has still not appeared. I re-sent, still nothing, I re-sent again, and they started to appear.

As to the discussed topic:

The fault is with the citizens who don't answer the census, that's clear. This is why their get inactivated. So, where is the discrepancy here? It's a correct thing. I did not suggest that failure to answer the census should come without serious consequences. I only suggested that the proposed law should use the correct terminology.

Valete!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92263 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Ave,

I understand that, and in the final draft of the law that will be posted today it will have a more correct terminology.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92264 From: Chad Axe Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Roman Virtue: Industria

Salvete omnes, and Io Saturnalia! I have come to define industry...true industry and free labor as: Meaningful activity that benefits others. Meaningful in that it comes from one's whole self..one's Iuno or Genius. It takes self examination and understanding to recognize exactly what this activity would be. Then that it benefit others helps me remember that I am a part of a larger endeavour ...we do not exist by ourselves. The Gods continually give breath, my Mother brought me thru, and my Father gave me a name. The aggregate sum of individual labors make a civilization.
Valete!
K. Axius Saxo

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android



From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus <gaius.tullius.valerianus@... To: Nova-Roma Main List <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Nova-Roma] Roman Virtue: Industria
Sent: Tue, Dec 17, 2013 6:02:07 PM

 

Gaius Tullius Valerianus Germanicus omnibus in his foris S.P.D.

      Salvete omnes, and IO SATURNALIA! I hope everyone is enjoying a wonderful holiday season on this Saturnalia, the day that the ancient Roman poet Catullus called "the best of days!" I'm a day late, but welcome back to the Roman Virtues Project - an ongoing exploration and discussion of the Roman virtues and what it means to be Roman, undertaken by the citizens and prospective citizens of Nova Roma! Today, however, the next virtue on the list for discussion is a virtue that is the opposite of the holiday we are now celebrating - as the Saturnalia are a rest from our labors, so today we will be discussing the Roman virtue of industria:

Roman Virtue: Industria 

Our website says of Industria: "Industriousness" Hard work.

The Oxford Latin Dictionary defines Industria as it relates to Roman virtue thus:

"1. Diligent activity directed to some purpose, application, industry, etc . . .
2. Purposefulness . . ."

So what does this mean for us as Nova Romans today?

     The Romans valued hard work. They considered industria a virtue, one without which Rome would never have achieved any measure of greatness. Purposeful work is necessary to meaningful human existence - we simply would not be human if we never needed to work for anything. Mythological golden ages almost always include the notion that the people themselves were different "in those days." So the capacity, the willingness, and the inclination towards purposeful work was much admired by the Romans. We should, as Romans, aspire to industry, to industria, even if we don't always succeed as much as we would like. But it is still an ideal for which we strive.

     What are your thoughts on industria? How to we practice industria in our public and private lives, as Romans? Who are the paragons and exemplars of industria from Roma Antiqua and Nova Roma? I can think of acknowledged masters of industria (at least in the political arena!) like the colleague of my consulship, Gnaeus Iulius Caesar, or this year's consul without a colleague, Lucius Cornelius Sulla. Who else comes to mind?  I look forward to hearing your ideas!

Data Phoenice Saturnalibus (a.d. XVI Kalendas Ianuarias anno A.U.C. MMDCCLXVI)

Sent from Phoenix on the Saturnalia (December 17th, 2013 C.E.)

 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92265 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda
Lentulus quaestor Sullae consuli sal.

Thank you for this Consul!

It is really appreciated!

Vale!
Lentulus


Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
 
Ave,

I understand that, and in the final draft of the law that will be posted today it will have a more correct terminology.

Respectfully,

Sulla




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92266 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Discussion on the Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda

Salve Crispe,

 

I think that is a good idea, and one that should be considered and administratively developed.

 

Vale Bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92267 From: Gaius Tullius Valerianus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Roman Virtue: Industria
Salve Saxo!
 
Thanks for your input! I love your definition of Industria as meaningful work, and your further definition of "meaningful" as coming from one's genius or iuno. Very Roman indeed is the concept of the obligation to contribute to the society that gives you your life.

Gaius Tullius Valerianus
 
Augur of Nova Roma
Lictor Curiatus of Nova Roma
Proconsul
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92268 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Roman Virtue: Industria

Salvete omnes!

 

When I think of Industria, I think not just in terms of hard work, but also in terms of dedication to excellence in what one does, and in the pride that come from doing whatever needs to be done as well as one possibly can.  In Nova Roma, I would add T. Iulius Sabinus’ name to those who demonstrate Industria.  It has been my observation that if he takes on a task, he performs that task with meticulous excellence, and stays with it until it is accomplished.

 

Valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92269 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Question for Praetor Candidates
Avete Omnes,

Gentlemen, can you please tell me your intent in regards to the current language edict on the ML?  Will you be re-issuing it?  Changing it?  Or letting it die?  Why?

Respectfully,

Sulla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92270 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Question for the Consul candidates
Avete Omnes,

I have a question, well actually two.

1.  Having been consul, I know that the position generally does operate with the knowledge of conflict that goes on between the two individuals who hold equal imperium.  How will you and your colleague deal with the inevitable conflict that will be generated over the course of the year?

2.  How will you and your colleague ensure that the laws passed and any new legislation is properly implemented in Nova Roma?

Respectfully,

Sulla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92271 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Roman Virtue: Industria
Ave,

Thank you for including me as an example, but with all due respect, I just did my duty as best as I could.  I would like to believe that anyone in my place would have taken similar actions.  The only thing I did differently was to include a staff that was diverse and open to challenge me to keep me on the straight and narrow.  This way any action taken would be clear, concise, transparent and good for all of Nova Roma regardless of political leanings.  

I have been sort of joking the past couple of weeks that I am looking forward to being able to lay down my Imperium and that is mostly true.  For the most part I have had a fun year.  This year has been the most enjoyable time I have had in Nova Roma and it will be the one I remember with fondness and enjoyment.

Thank you again.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92272 From: Ugo Coppola Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Question for Praetor Candidates

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92273 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Question for Praetor Candidates
Ave,

Thank you for the answer but what part do you think is outdated and needs improvement? :)

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92274 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Question for Praetor Candidates

Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

 

I also have a question for the candidates for Praetor.

 

As I am sure you have seen, the discussions on the ML can turn very quickly from spirited debate to senseless nonproductive argument.  I would like to know several things.

 

1.   Would you consider it advisable or necessary to intervene at any point in such discussions?

2.  If so, how do you draw the line between positive debate and negative verbal brawling? (and is it advisable to draw such a line?)

3.  What actions would you take (if any) to diffuse a situation?

 

Put another way, what are your views on list management, and how much “management” do you think the Praetors should use, especially here, on the main forum?

 

Valete!

C. Maria Caeca

 

 

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92275 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Question for Praetor Candidates
M. Pompeius Caninus L. Cornelio Sullae Felici omnibusque s.p.d.

I have not yet discussed this with my fellow candidate and potential colleague. However, if it becomes clear that the people want a change from current policy, I am willing to draft a new edict that would lift the language translation restriction on the Main List with the stipulation that the Praetorial staff may impose moderation or other restrictions on any member at any time if the use of languages other than English becomes excessive, spammy, subversive or threatening. I would be willing to do that as an experiment to see whether or not the inputs, as Caesar has labeled them, become a problem, burden or threat to Nova Roma. All oaths, edicta, leges and official business would still need to be done in English anyway. Opening the door a bit to allow people to post in languages without an English translation on the Main List might lead to a bit more participation and possibly a larger number of tax payers in the new year. So, I may be willing to allow some self-policing. Surely, Sullae, you of all people would agree that over regulation is not good for business.

I might be willing to do something similar on the Announcement and the FH lists. But I feel the translation restriction is truly appropriate in those fora. I could see a case being made to welcome newcomers to the FH in their own language without requiring the messages going back and forth to be translated. It could be good for our image. But that would require Praetorial staff with sufficient skills to read, understand and approve or reject messages in specific languages. There is simply no way to oversee the FH and Announcement lists if untranslated posts were allowed in any language - if the door is cracked open on those two lists it would only be open for a very small number of languages. 

Of course, if this change did take place, the door could be slammed shut at any time by reissuing the same edict currently in effect. I do not see the current edict as being oppressive. It is a tool that has served a good purpose for the past couple of years.

The bottom line is that I am open to making a change to the moderation edict but it is not a burning issue for me. If some of the citizens in Europe and elsewhere who would like to use languages other than English without translations can make a good case then I would be happy to give the matter some consideration. Edicta can be repealed or changed when needed. At the moment, though, I expect the moderation issue to be carried over to the new year.   

Bene vale et valete!
 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92276 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Question for Praetor Candidates
M. Pompeius Caninus C. Maria Caecae omnibusque salutem dicit:

1.   Would you consider it advisable or necessary to intervene at any point in such discussions?
I could see it may be necessary to warn the parties that enough is enough when the discussion turns into a flame war or delves into personal confrontation that has little or no value to the citizens as a whole. Then if one or both persist after a warning it may be necessary to moderate their posts. This is not something that would be done lightly but only after at least one warning and if the discussion is clearly not productive. Romans have quite clearly resorted to name calling, mud slinging and verbal abuse throughout history. But flame wars can interfere with conduct of business since virtually all of Nova Roma's business is conducted in just a few email lists. The point at which it becomes difficult for the conduct of normal business is where I feel it is most important to intervene.

2.  If so, how do you draw the line between positive debate and negative verbal brawling? (and is it advisable to draw such a line?)
That is the difficult part. I feel the line is crossed when there are substantial personal attacks and a distinct lack of content related to any issue of interest to an average citizen. This is where experience comes into play. As a new praetor who has never served in the office before I feel it is very important to have staff on hand who have spent more than a year on the job of watching over the fora. I would take the opinion of my staff into serious consideration before taking action unless something struck me as being a serious violation of good conduct that could not wait for consensus.

3.  What actions would you take (if any) to diffuse a situation?
In addition to a personal, private message stating my concerns I would also make attempts both public and private to rein the debate in and get the conversation back on topic. This may involve the use of humor and gentle reminders of Romanitas and the mos maiorum. 

Bene valete!

Respectfully,
 
 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Candidate for Praetor
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92277 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Question for Praetor Candidates

Salve Canine!

 

I think that is a considered and excellent answer, thank you! I will be voting for you in this election, as a demonstration of support, since you will be elected.

 

Vale Bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92278 From: Ugo Coppola Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Re: Question for Praetor Candidates


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92279 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Final Draft - Proposed Constitutional Change
Ave!

CONSTITUTIONAL CHANGE.

The change will affection Section IV A of the Constitution of Nova Roma, if passed by the People and ratified by the Senate of Nova Roma.

The current reading is this:

Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy. Should one of theordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections of the ordinarii shall take place no later than December 15th, and newly-elected officials shall assume their offices on January 1st. Exceptions to these provisions regarding elections may be found in section V of this Constitution. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:

The new change will be as follows:

Should an office in mid-term become vacant and suitable candidates be at hand, an election shall be held in the appropriate comitia to elect a successor to serve out the remainder of the term within thirty days of the vacancy. Should one of the ordinarii be found to be derelict in his duties, that magistrate may be removed by a law originating in the comitia that elected him. Elections of the ordinarii shall take place every civil year no later than November 20th for the plebeian offices and no later than December 15th for the curule magistracies and other elected officials. Newly elected Quaestores will assume office on December 5th, the tribuni plebis and aediles plebis shall enter their offices on December 10, all other officials shall enter their offices on the following Kalends of January. Anyone currently serving in an elected or appointed office may complete their term and enter their newly elected office on or after January 1. Exceptions to these provisions regarding elections may be found in section V of this Constitution. The ordinarii, in decreasing order of authority, are as follows:

Respectfully,

Sulla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92280 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-17
Subject: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Ave!

Here is the final draft of this proposed lex:

PROPOSED Lex:  Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda (Proposed name)

 

I.        For the purpose of section V of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda, the “prevailing legal procedures” shall be defined as those procedures contained within a Senatus consultum, which at the time of the enactment of this lex is the “Senatus consultum on the reapplication process for citizenship”, passed 2765 A.U.C. A senatus consultum issued after the enactment of this lex may amend, or enhance, the “prevailing legal procedures”. 

II.                  Section II.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“Citizenship from Nova Roma may be voluntarily relinquished by either:

1.     Notification of the Censors. Submission to the Censors by the citizen intending to resign of an intention to resign citizenship should be made in writing with the intention clearly stated, and may be transmitted in writing via any available means.

2.     A statement of intent to resign citizenship made in writing by the citizen intending to resign in a public communications forum, list, board or venue, electronic or otherwise, whether that forum is owned or controlled by Nova Roma or not, to which the censors or another magistrate (as described in section IV.A or section IV.B of the Nova Roman Constitution) or a provincial governor of Nova Roma has access. Such intent may also be made by email to a magistrate or provincial governor. The magistrate or governor shall forward verbatim the text of the resignation and provide any electronic hyperlink to such a statement or a forwarded copy of the email concerned.  The censors shall exercise collegiate judgment in whether to accept any such communication at section II.A.2 as intent to resign citizenship.”   

III.                Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an exsilius. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma may also be treated as a exsilius for the purposes of this lex. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a excensus after failing to register with one census. Any excensus or former Citizen in a excensus status who fails to register with a census or who fails to otherwise reestablish citizenship may, at the discretion of the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.”

IV.   Section IV of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a subsection C to read:

“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated as exsilius and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen, devoid of any and all legal rights within Nova Roma.”

V.                  Section VI.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“When a former Citizen applies for reinstatement of citizenship, a waiting period of ninety (90) days must precede the reestablishment of citizenship. A former Citizen whose citizenship was removed by the process of banishment is not entitled to a restoration of any titles, honors and/or effects of past public offices (including census points). In the case of any other Citizen who was exsilius or excensus the restoration of any titles, honors and/or effects of past public offices (excluding census points) shall be at the discretion of, the censors acting in a collegiate manner. The restoration of census points for a person who was exsilius or excensus shall be determined by the process in section XXXX of this lex.”

VI.                Section VI.C of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“Any census points that are due under the terms of this lex to a returning Citizen must be restored at the time that citizenship is legally re-established by the censors.”

VII.              Section VIII.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:

“All rights and privileges of citizenship are restored to a Citizen at the time his or her citizenship is re-established, subject to any legal prohibitions, cancellations, or any other such restriction, that may exist at the time of re-establishment of citizenship.”

VIII.        The Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a section IX. ((Census Point loss)) which shall have the following sub-sections:

“A. Voluntary resignations shall be classified as follows:

1.  Personal: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation of a non-Nova Roman nature

2.  NR dispute: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation where a conflict, conducted in public or private, has occurred over matters that relate to Nova Roman matters, between the Citizen resigning Citizenship and another Citizen(s), or a former Citizen(s) or another person(s)

3.       No reason: No reason is provided in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately

4.  No warning: The Citizen resigning, while holding office, whether elected or appointed, gave no prior notice of an intent to resign, thus preventing alternative solutions to resignation being discussed

5.  2nd resignation: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship twice.

6.  3rd plus resignations: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship three or more times.

B. A Citizen who has voluntarily resigned shall be classed as either “citizen” (not holding elected or appointed office at the time of resignation), “minor official” (holding an office at the time of resignation, whether that office was elected or by appointment, that was not censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor) or “major official” (held office at the time of resignation as censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor).

C. Upon restoration of Citizenship, except in cases where the returning Citizen is returning from a period of legal banishment that has now expired, the amount of Citizen Points (CP) that must be returned to the Citizen is based on the table below “at VIII.D”, Where the amount of loss is listed as a percentage, that percentage must be deducted from the CP held by the Citizen at the time of his/her resignation, or the fixed amount of actual CP that must be deducted. After calculation of a percentage loss, the result of CP if less than a whole number shall be rounded down. If after deduction of a fixed amount of CP this results in a negative number, that shall be recorded in the Citizen’s Album Civium. The censors shall administer the application of the CP deductions in the table below.

D. Census Point loss table

        Personal    NR Dispute    No reason    No warning    2nd resignation    3rd plus resignation

Citizen                  20% loss   35% loss           50% loss      N/A                   100% loss           Set CP to -100

Minor official    30% loss    60% loss          80% loss      +20% loss        2x % loss            Set CP to -250

Major official     50% loss   80% loss          100% loss    2x % loss          3x % loss           Set CP to -500

Notes:                                                                                                                                                                                  

1) 2nd resignation of a person deemed at the time of resignation does not require that he/she was also an official on 1st resignation.                                                                                                       

2) Results of CP loss may place the resigned citizen in negative balance, which he/she will have to work off balance before CP can be earned.                                                                                                           

3) Tax rates will be addressed through Senatus consultum (tax is the prerogative of the Senate) but persons who have resigned and returned will be required to pay the Nova Roman tax for the class they were in prior to CP loss. 

4) CP loss will be calculated at the time of resignation, not upon returning, and amount of loss noted on citizen's Album page together with the class and century they were in at time of resignation.

5) The table is read left to right, so the censors shall first determine which applies; Personal, NR dispute or No reason. Then they shall determine if warning was not given and apply the enhanced penalties indicated, and finally evaluate if the citizen has resigned two, or three (or more) times and apply those penalty enhancers.

6) +20% means that this 20% is added to either, 30%, 60% or 80% depending on which applies to the Citizen.

7) 2x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of two; 3x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of three.

 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92281 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Questions for the Censorial Candidate
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus S.P.D.

These are  questions for the Censorial Candidate:  L. Cornelius Sulla Felix.


What will be your guidelines regarding Roman Names.  Are you very conservative? Or a little more open-minded to having different names?

Example being will be accepting of names that aren't on the acceptable list of Roman Names?  Especially if they are not offensive or inappropriate?

My second question is rather more complex.

What is your stance towards Adoption?  As most are aware, that it is a difficulty for many to Adopt in Nova Roma due to the 18 year age gap restriction.  If someone wanted to adopt another citizen as a sibling/cousin would you be open to giving your approval on such a thing?


Thirdly, and my final question.

Your soon to be colleague is definitely a force-of-nature, the chance of conflict well could be probable.  What steps will you take to resolve such conflict if it were to take place?

Valete bene,
Aeternia 





--
"De mortuis nil nisi bonum"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92282 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Questions for the Praetorial Candidates
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

These questions are for the Praetorian Candidates.


Gentlemen, as you are both well aware that although Nova Roma is growing behind the scenes our main fora is a little slow to catch up on the modern times.

What plans and steps do you intend to take on encouraging and promoting "activity" on both the Main Forum and the Forum Hospitum lists?

My second question is.  

As you are probably aware there was some issues regarding the Ludi to be held on the FH list in the past.  A battle which I hard won during my time as Praetrix.  

Will you during your tenure as Praetors allow the Ludi to be also be held on the FH forum?


Valete bene,
Aeternia 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92283 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Support for Consul
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia  L. Deciae Florae Omnibus in foro S.P.D

Thank you amica!  Your continued support is always appreciated!  And more importantly welcome back to the Forum.

Valete bene,
Aeternia 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92284 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Questions for the Censorial Candidate
Ave,

Caesar and I have worked together throughout the year.  Caesar and I have been friends for over 10 years, we have a long standing friendship going back to when we were both actively Boni.  The very few times there have been slight bubbles of conflict are essentially differences of opinion not differences of policy.  Therefore the chance of any conflict is slim and if it does happen we talk it out.  On the whole I do believe that Caesar and I are both about equal when it comes to being a force of nature. :)

As for Roman names, I intend to follow the laws in regards to naming conventions that Nova Roma has adopted throughout its existence.  Though I would like to have some flexibility built into the system as much as it can be allowed.

Here is the thing regarding adoptions.  My one real regret this year was not being able to focus on Gentes/Familiae reform.  It is one area that I believe needs to be addressed since, I believe that until Nova Roma reaches at least 1000 assidui we are essentially in a Gentes state in terms of clans but trying to impose familial relationships, when that should be done when actual families have a chance to be created.  Nova Roma is doing itself a disservice by undercutting the relationships within the Gentes.  I do hope that next year's consuls consider doing an exhaustive Gentes/Familial reform that allows the current citizens a chance to reassess their relationship temporarily while allowing the Gentes to be more firmly established, recognized because there are clear advantages to having a Clan system when the organization is small, growing and needs more active ways to bind new citizens to its fellow clan mates.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92285 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda

C. Petronius L. Sullae salutem,


I do not see why you want to modify a such law? Is there in Nova Roma billions of resigned citizens who want to return that you suddenly need to modify a law about this subject? As Socrates did I like to ask basic questions, and as you took a while to modify a law about resignation and returning I presume that you certainly have your reasons for calling the Comitia for that. I would like to understand this sudden interest on that concern and what were the problems with the old law.

More I will prefer a clear presentation of the suggested changes with in a side the complete text of the current law and in other side the complete text of the suggested law.

Certainly any citizen may seek the current law in force, but he must replace and insert your proposals with possible mistakes.

I know that even in my country the deputees do not recall the old law nor rewrite all the law when they vote some changes, but we know that is the choice to make the laws a business of experts. But for us, in Nova Roma, I suggest to use more virtuous customs and to propose laws easy to understand.  

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XV Kalendas Ianuarias MMDCCLXVI

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92286 From: Ugo Coppola Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Questions for the Praetorial Candidates

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92287 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Ave,

Because there is a need to deal with this issue.

Just yesterday former citizen Rory Kirschner tried to rejoin the back alley.

Modianus, the consul of the sertorian group tried to rejoin nr.   So, there is an absolute need of this lex.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: jfarnoud94@...
Date:12/18/2013 1:15 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] RE: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda

 

C. Petronius L. Sullae salutem,


I do not see why you want to modify a such law? Is there in Nova Roma billions of resigned citizens who want to return that you suddenly need to modify a law about this subject? As Socrates did I like to ask basic questions, and as you took a while to modify a law about resignation and returning I presume that you certainly have your reasons for calling the Comitia for that. I would like to understand this sudden interest on that concern and what were the problems with the old law.

More I will prefer a clear presentation of the suggested changes with in a side the complete text of the current law and in other side the complete text of the suggested law.

Certainly any citizen may seek the current law in force, but he must replace and insert your proposals with possible mistakes.

I know that even in my country the deputees do not recall the old law nor rewrite all the law when they vote some changes, but we know that is the choice to make the laws a business of experts. But for us, in Nova Roma, I suggest to use more virtuous customs and to propose laws easy to understand.  

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XV Kalendas Ianuarias MMDCCLXVI

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92288 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Questions for the Praetorial Candidates
M. Pompeius Caninus Sta. Corneliae Aeterniae quiritibusque salutem dicit:

I will answer your second question, since that is easier, then answer your first question. Your second question was:
"Will you during your tenure as Praetors allow the Ludi to be also be held on the FH forum?"
If you recall, I took a stand in favor of ludi posts on the Forum Hospitum back in March 2012. See http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Nova-Roma/conversations/messages/88025
 in the Main List archives. I have made more than a few ludi related posts this month and dozens of posts over the past couple of years while participating in and help to produce various ludi. So, I hope there is no doubt about my views regarding the posting of ludi and other event information in the Forum Hospitum. I also support the Senatus Consultum regarding the meaning of 'internal affairs'. (See http://www.novaroma.org/nr/Senatus_consultum_on_the_meaning_of_%22internal_affairs%22_in_respect_of_Forum_Hospitum
 on the Nova Roma Wiki.) And I am keen on posting other activity and news items to the Forum Hospitum that do not touch on the organization's leadership and politics. I do not believe that posting things to the Forum Hospitum is bad but discussions there should be moderated so flame wars, political rhetoric and other noise do not drown out positive discussions and interactions that can draw prospective members into the organization as new citizens. The Forum Hospitum needs to be kept up-beat and positive to present a welcoming environment for people considering citizenship. Any messages or activity that helps foster that welcoming environment and reflects positively on Nova Roma should be allowed in the Forum Hospitum.   


Your first question was:
"What plans and steps do you intend to take on encouraging and promoting "activity" on both the Main Forum and the Forum Hospitum lists?"

The praetores have been traditionally responsible for management of the public fora. But all citizens are responsible for the promotion of activity and marketing of Nova Roma to the internet at large. As a Praetor, I will ensure events and important news items are pushed to the public through official and unofficial outlets, like creating posts on Nova Roma's Facebook page, posting to other Facebook accounts and groups that have a focus or interest in ancient Roman culture,and tweeting to a number followers that have a focus or interest in Roman history, culture and recreation, including your new Twitter feed, Aeternia. 

I have plans to integrate Nova Roma's website with Twitter and Facebook. I have some development sites for testing technologies for Nova Roma that have been open to the public. A few citizens have visited these sites and seen some of my ideas for improvements to our web presence using a layered approach to building our web server using multiple hosting technologies like Drupal, Elgg, WordPress and Joomla in addition to our current MediaWiki. 

A few citizens might be interested to know I am also planning to continue sponsoring some ludi myself on festival days that appeal to me - like the Consuales ludi we just had and the bireme race on Volturnalia. The appeal may be limited but the events add a small amount of discussion to the public fora. 

Optime vale et valete!
 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus

 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92289 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Questions for consuls candidates.
Salve Senator Iuli,

First of all my wishes for a happy Saturnalia to you and yours.

Also my apologies for taking so long to answer your questions but this end of semester has been professionally completely crazy.

I will give my answers within the original text.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92290 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Salve Sulla,

Concerning 1 I think mutual respect is the key as simplistic as it may sound. I know that Aeternia will both sincere and defending what she believes to be right so if we can not achieve a common ground we will have to accept there isn't a possible compromise and the other Consul has the right to veto so or it is not advanced or it is advanced knowing it will be veto.

Concerning 2 I'm a little confuse of what are you asking. As Consul that would mean to follow the obligations and duties of any law in force and to same degree see if the other magistrates are doing their obligations and duties.

Vale optime,
Crassus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92291 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Questions for the Praetorial Candidates

Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

 

Although I’m not a candidate for Praetor, I have been a moderator of the Forum Hospitum since its inception, so I think I have the credentials to address issues surrounding the FH.  This list was designed to provide an environment where guests and potential citizens could come to get a sense of us as an organization, to learn, in a general way, about the organization, and to share interests with others who, though they might not wish to become citizens, do wish to share information and ideas about Roma Antiqua.  In many ways, this is our atrium where we welcome visitors. However, if these visitors want to be invited to dinner, so to speak, they must become citizens.  The list was set up so that newcomers would not be immediately exposed to our often contentious debates or to the minutiae of our internal processes.

 

Moderating this list can become a bit tricky, because, yes, there are things potential citizens have the right, even the obligation to find out *before* they commit to citizenship.  While it is true that they can find all that information on the web site, they should be able to ask general questions on the FH (the gods know I peppered Newroman with questions when I first came to NR), and receive answers from our resident long term citizens (for whom, BTW, we have always been very grateful).  There is a fine line, here, because what we *don’t* want to do is let such questions act as springboards to debates involving political stances or policies.  It’s one thing to ask, for example, “how does the Senate work and what does it do?” than to start a discussion on the merits of a particular Senatus Consultum or the behavior of a specific Senator during a Senate Contio.  We have tried to be as informative and welcoming on the FH as we can while remaining within the confines of its governing Senatus Consultum.  Hopefully, this will result in knowledgeable new citizens entering our public life, where … they can watch us resolve our differences, with or without contention.

 

Valete Bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92292 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Io Saturnalia!!
Salvete omnes,

A little late this year but my best wishes for a happy and merry Saturnalia to all citizens and friends of Nova Roma and your families.

Io Saturnalia!
Crassus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92293 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Ave Amice,

As for Question 2.  Yes.  To ensure the proper implementation of all laws currently in force in NR.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92294 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates

C. Maria Caeca C. Aemilio Crasso Sta Corneliae Aeterniae Omnibusque S. P. D.

 

As I am sure many of us remember, a situation arose in 2010 during which each Consul disagreed so much with the other that if one summoned the Senate, the other automatically vetoed the Senate call.  The result was that the Senate couldn’t convene, and, eventually, the Government ground to a halt and was unable to function.

 

While it is true we have had 3 “sets” of Consuls since then, I think it fair to say that it looks as though this will be the first time since then that we will have 2 active Consuls.  Frankly, I look forward to this, but I do want to ask you something.  Even if you are in conflict over an issue, and even if you strongly disagree, would either of you ever consider vetoing a Senate call by the other, to prevent the Senate from doing its business?

 

Valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92295 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Salve amica,

I can say that for as much as I may disagree with anything being proposed to be debated and voted in the Senate or on any comitia I would never on only that ground veto a call for the Senate or for the Comitia. The only reason I see possible such a situation would be, in a completely general case, if such proposal was contrary to the constitution. I don't expect such thing to happen but that would be the only scenario I would consider for such action.

I know the Consulship is bound to stress the differences between both Consuls and although I believe we can overcome the differences and accept the limits of the not possible to overcome differences I also would like to say that although the veto should be sparsely used it is a Roman featured and the Roman political system only work with it. So it isn't the end of the world if an edictum is vetoed if the process follow our laws.

On other hand since I believe the Senate and the people in the comitia to be perfectly capable to decide the merits, or lack of them, of a legislation proposal I would never veto a call of those bodies unless completely contrary to constitution.

In the Senate it is more a hypothetical question since with the new rules the Princeps Senatus can summon the Senate and in that way at least the Senate will work.

Vale optime amica,
Crassus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92296 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates

Salve Crasse!

 

Thank you for your answer.  It is exactly what I hoped you would say.  I do understand the value and the use of a collegial veto, but, as you remember, we have also seen it misused.  While it is true that now the Princeps Senatus can call the Senate into session, if that happened under a situation similar to that which we faced in 2010, we could, technically, conduct State business, but we would be doing so under extreme stress which, I think, would prove counterproductive.

 

Again, thank you for responding.

 

Vale bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92297 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Salve amice,

I think I'm still missing the point Sulla, my answer is "As Consul that would mean to follow the obligations and duties of any law in force and to same degree see if the other magistrates are doing their obligations and duties."

So on the part of the Consul perform what is mandatory and communicate with other magistrates to see if their part is also done. In case of conflict with other magistrates the path is to try solve the problem even if that means using edicta, the Senate is also the correct body to solve differences between magistrates if everything also fails.

The last resort would be to call the comitia which elected the magistrate and make a proposal for the removal of office but this is the extreme case and only if there would be serious danger for NR.

Vale optime,
Crassus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92298 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Ave Amice,

I apologize I thought I was pretty clear.  Let me give you an example.  Nova Roma has a number of laws already passed.  Like the Gentes Registration lex, which technically is practically unenforceable at present.  How would you ensure the laws currently on the books are properly implemented?  

Respectfully,

Sulla




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92299 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Salve amice,

Probably the problem was in my end. Any way in this particularly case unless there will be a change in our laws this lex should be repealed since there aren't effectively paterfamilias for the Gens anymore. I haven't worked in the Censor office but my guess is following this lex all citizens should now be a very happy family of the gens nemo!

On other hand later constitution changes made, in my opinion, this lex implicitly repealed since the constitution now speaks of the families and not of the gentes.

So working leges fulfill their obligations, unworkable leges repealed when found since obviously they aren't necessary.

Vale optime,
Crassus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92300 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
SALVETE!

I think you both missed a point here.
It's normal as the consuls to veto each other. In fact is very Roman. That doesn't mean the Senate is blocked. The tribunes can pronounce intercessio to the consul veto.
In 2010 tribunes were corrupted and that resulted in Senate blockage.

Therefore, consuls candidates I wish you to veto each other. That is the essence of the Roman mos maiorum when you don't agree. Tribunes will watch!


VALETE,
Sabinus


"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--------------------------------------------
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92301 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Ave Amice,

I think the problem that most of us might be concerned with is what happens AFTER the veto.  We have had a tendency to not have things stop there or to take things personally and that is the intent of the question regarding conflict management between colleagues. 

It is all like game theory, both sides what what they want and how far is each side going to go to try to get it?  It is the whole compromise vs conflict approach.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92302 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Salve Sabine,

I believe the Tribunus can only pronounce intercessio to the consul veto if and only if it would be in violation of leges or constitution which I can't figure out how that can happen since the Consul veto is a power of the office.

I don't expect to be issuing any vetos next year but also just sad I consider it a normal tool of our Roman political organization. What I can't conceive is to veto a Senate or Comitia call because I don't agree with the proposal being made. I know it would be Roman but it is not how I understand the today relation between magistrates, Senate and Comitia.

Vale optime,
Crassus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92303 From: dalehamm Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Official Results - Consuales Ludi 2766 AUC

Salvete! Veneta Victrix!

 

Third in the chariot races and second in the mule races? Not bad for my first ludi.

My drivers are celebrating with unwatered wine. The horses and mules are celebrating with oats and beer.

I'm pleased to see the name "Veneta" so many times in the final standings--more than any other faction.

My humble thanks to Senator Caninus for his hospitality and for helping to make my first races so memorable.

 

Valete omnes!

 

Catus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92304 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Caninus Crasso et Sullae sal.

Amici, keep in mind that the tribuni plebis should be making sure the Senate is able to meet and that the consules do not bring the res publica to its knees because they hand out vetoes like business cards. It is OK to disagree and even to veto one another. If a consul action, including a consul veto, prevents the res publica from functioning the tribunes have some limited powers to get things working. 

Bene valete!
 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92305 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Salvete,

Ok I think we are starting to making too big issue with a hypothetical situation, so let me say how I think things would probably go. 

First please keep in mind I haven't discussed nothing of this with Aeternia but I think more than probable we both will talk with each other concerning our decisions and future actions.
If there is a difference first we will probably try to see how to solve it in content of both sides.
If that is not possible than most probably the action will be drooped.
Unless the Consul who advocates for that action feels the necessity of the action been presented publicly even knowing it will be vetoed.
The other Consul vetos and both sides have given their point of view.
Life goes on.

So let me state very clear I have absolutely certain Aeternia will be only guided by what she considers correct and in concordance with our laws so even if I don't see it under the same light I know it is not anything but Aeternia doing exactly what I will vote her to do.

The question Caeca placed it is in fact a particular case where I depart from our ancestors since I consider correct that even a proposal of which I disagree to be presented and eventually see Senate or Comitia approve it.

Vale optime,
Crassus



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92306 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Salve Canine,

I'm sorry to say but I don't see the Tribuni having such duty and to the best of my knowldge the only safeguard in our days is the power to call the Senate of the Princeps Senatus.

A tribunus can only veto an illegal action and a Consul veto is by definition a legal action.

Vale optime,
Crassus



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92307 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Ave,

Tribunes are empowered to summon the senate, but there are restrictions.  They cannot for example try to get a dictator appointed. 

Here is the Constitutional refernce:

IV.A.7.d.1.  

To be privy to the debates of the Senate, and keep the citizens informed as to the subjects and results thereof, in such manner and subject to such restrictions as may be defined by law;
1 To call the Senate to order;

Respectfully,

Sulla



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92308 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Caninus Crasso sal.

Intercessio may not be needed since the constitution states in paragraph IV.A.7.d. the tribunes can call the Senate to order - and unlike the praetores that is a flat statement - there is no stipulation like 'when the consules are unavailable'. I believe you are correct, that intercessio would be difficult in a situation like this since it is not clear that any law is being violated. But a tribune can summon the Senate and impose intercessio if anyone tries to stop the Senate call. Sabinus is right that the tribunes in 2010 were clearly corrupted and did not perform their duties to res publica but followed their own political ambitions instead.

Fac valeas!
 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92309 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Ave,

Well there are restrictions to the intercessio, by Tribunes, they must be done in compliance to the Lex Didia Gemina. :)  

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92310 From: Aemilius Crassus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Salvete,

Lol, at this moment any new citizen is probably embrace itself for a year with the two Consuls in fight and Tribuni in the middle too.

The Tribuni can call the Senate only to deal with matters directly under their competence and nothing else and can't veto a Consul veto. But the safeguard for halt of the state is already placed since at least the Senate can work even if both Consuls have the word "veto" in speed dial for emails.

On the other hand I'm ready to bet a considerable amount of my sparse money that will not happen next year.

Valete,
Crassus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92311 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
SALVETE!

I think Crassus is right. We need to stop here and to not transform that in a big issue.
Year 2010 was an exception, we know that.
Today the Senate business can't be stoped. That is important.

Crasse thank you for your answers to my questions.
I wish to both consuls candidates succes in elections!

VALETE,
Sabinus



"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--------------------------------------------
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92312 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Salve Sullae!

I knew there was a lex I forgot to repeal this year. LOL Just kidding. The lex Didia gemina states that a tribune may call the Senate but that the Senate will function according to its own rules. A lex cannot be passed that will override the Senate's power to define its own procedures and rules of operation unless the constitution is amended first. A tribune cannot change the procedures or impose his or her own rules on the Senate. Once called to order, the tribunes have no control of the Senate. 

Fac valeas!
 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92313 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Ave!

LOL man I hope that law is never touched.  It is a really good law. :)  that prevents tribunes from just running amuck and that's the last thing we need! LOL   ;)

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92314 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Ave!

Yeah, tribunes are potentially the most powerful players even though they do not have imperium. Limitations on their powers are a good thing.

 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92315 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Salve!

Actually, it may need some work since it refers to a lex you just repealed - lex Salicia Iudiciaria.

Bene vale!
 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92316 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Ave,

Ah crap....well the greater majority should be able to stand on its own :)  But the Leges Salicia had to be dead and buried.



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92317 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Agreed!

 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus
Senator             Alascae
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92318 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Cn. Lentulus quaestor C. Aemilio praetori, consuli canditado, omnibusque sal.


Praetor amplissime, et consul candidate, you wrote:


and only if it would be in violation of leges or constitution which I can't figure out how that can happen since the Consul veto is a power of the office. <<<


I have heard this argument from others as well, and I think it is very important to make it clear that this is an impossible interpretation of the law about the tribunes' intercessio. If the tribunes could veto only what is illegal, than they could veto nothing. Because if something is illegal, it is forbidden and prohibited by the very fact that it is *illegal*. So how can the law then be interpreted? There remain only two interpretations: either that the tribunes can not veto anything (which would render the office of tribune, which is basically the "office of vetos" a joke), or the other (the correct) interpretation is that the tribunes can veto what they judge to be illegal, by their own interpretation and reading of the laws.

So a tribune should use his veto rights whenever he feels appropriate. A more detailed argument is here:

The Constitution says that the tribuni may veto actions or laws only which violate the letter or spirit of the Constitution or any other law (lex, edictum, decretum, consultum etc). But if any action or law would violate the Constitution or other laws in force, that action or law would be illegal by the simple fact of them being "illegal", i.e. "in violation of the laws", i.e. INVALID. So if we take the letter of the Constitution too literally, it means that the tribuni may veto only something that is ALREADY null and void because pf being illegal and invalid. The Constitution could not mean that only invalid actions may be vetoed, since this would render the ius intercessionis meaningless, impossible and a joke. This is not what a veto means. The tribunician veto can not mean this. Even if we consider the historical basis of the tribunician veto, we can see that the Roman tribuni plebis could veto anything they did not want to happen: no reasoning or justification was required, only a simple statement "I veto this". It is clear that in Nova Roma the Constitution does not allow THIS. But it allows something. It must allow something in order to get a sensible meaning out of it. It is also clear that what it allows must be more than simply "invalidating the invalid".

Then how can it be interpreted?  It can only be interpreted in a meaningful way so that the Constitution allows a tribunus to veto something which in the INTERPRETATION of the tribunus is against the spirit or letter of the laws. And here emphasis must be on "interpretation of the tribunus". So the law or action vetoed does not have to be in actual violation of the laws (for example in the eye's of a macronational court), it does not have to be the consensus of any authorities, but it only has to be the opinion of the tribunus, supported by his logical argument where he demonstrates why he thinks so, based on what kind of laws.

So the key here is the interpretation of the tribunus, supported by a logical argument relying on the laws and the Constitution.

I wanted to point this out, and thanks to anyone who reads and thinks about this.


Valete!

Cn. Lentulus
quaestor




Da: Aemilius Crassus <c.aemilius.crassus@... [Nova-Roma] Question for the Consul candidates

 
Salve Canine,

I'm sorry to say but I don't see the Tribuni having such duty and to the best of my knowldge the only safeguard in our days is the power to call the Senate of the Princeps Senatus.

A tribunus can only veto an illegal action and a Consul veto is by definition a legal action.

Vale optime,
Crassus





Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92319 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Ave,

You are partly correct Lentulus,

The Tribunes can veto actions and if those actions exceed the law they would certainly be invalid.  

The tribunes also need to justify their veto per the Lex Didia Gemnia.  If they feel that the action violates the laws or constitution they must veto based on that parameter.  They dont get to make things up.  They HAVE to justify it.

If they believe the interpretation of the Magistrate trying to enforce the law in question is flawed there is their grounds.  But again, they must JUSTIFY it using the Constitution and the laws in question.  This is NOT an all or nothing situation.  This is the nuance shade of Grey that is what any legal interpretation revolves around from Judicial Review to Nova Roma's version of Judicial Review.  

The problem comes to those, who like you, Lentulus, are literalists.  You, Dexter and Scholastica both have been labelled as literalists in Nova Roma in that the text is it and unfortunately, the text is NOT always it, but one takes into account the intent of the author and anything that falls under the realm of the Spirit of the Constitution.  This does not necessarily mean an expansion into realms NOT considered by the authors - if that was the case we wouldnt need any additional law period.  But to take into account the varying shades of grey that do crop up.

But, again, always there must be justification for a veto/intercessio.  Without that it is a non-starter.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92320 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates

C. Maria Caeca L. Cornelio Sullae Felici Consuli S. P. D.

 

I’ve always been curious, Consul, how, exactly, does one demonstrate the intent of an author?  I can see using other legislation, perhaps, or something the author wrote on the subject, if that is available …but I well remember “intent” being used to justify some extremely … original … interpretations of our Leges in times past.  I suppose I, also, am somewhat literal in such things, but when it comes to legal issues, I admit to preferring very solid ground when it comes to interpretation …and I don’[t consider another’s opinion solid ground when demonstrating intent.

 

Vale bene!

CMC

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92321 From: Belle Morte Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Salvete,

Somehow this got completely off track into a hypothetical vortex.

Crassus put down the bucket fish and slowly walk away from the bears.

I will respond later to the direct questions.

Valete bene,
Aeternia

Sent from my iPhone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92322 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Cn. Iulius Caesar censor sal.
 
Agreed. There is indeed a need for this lex. A very pressing need.
 
Without it we could easily see the calm that has been established in Nova Roma since the attempted coup of 2010 disipate. Preventing those from rejoining who supported a scheme that had as its main objective looting the Nova Roman treasury of at least $10,000 USD to hand out to a non-citizen associate/friend, for uncessary and spurious work on the website, is imperative.
 
Optime valete

From: "robert.woolwine@..." <robert.woolwine@...

 
Ave,

Because there is a need to deal with this issue.

Just yesterday former citizen Rory Kirschner tried to rejoin the back alley.

Modianus, the consul of the sertorian group tried to rejoin nr.   So, there is an absolute need of this lex.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: jfarnoud94@...
Date:12/18/2013 1:15 AM (GMT-07:00)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] RE: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda

 
C. Petronius L. Sullae salutem,

I do not see why you want to modify a such law? Is there in Nova Roma billions of resigned citizens who want to return that you suddenly need to modify a law about this subject? As Socrates did I like to ask basic questions, and as you took a while to modify a law about resignation and returning I presume that you certainly have your reasons for calling the Comitia for that. I would like to understand this sudden interest on that concern and what were the problems with the old law.
More I will prefer a clear presentation of the suggested changes with in a side the complete text of the current law and in other side the complete text of the suggested law.
Certainly any citizen may seek the current law in force, but he must replace and insert your proposals with possible mistakes.
I know that even in my country the deputees do not recall the old law nor rewrite all the law when they vote some changes, but we know that is the choice to make the laws a business of experts. But for us, in Nova Roma, I suggest to use more virtuous customs and to propose laws easy to understand.  
Optime vale.
--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XV Kalendas Ianuarias MMDCCLXVI


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92323 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Cn. Caesar sal.
 
I agree with Crassus in so much as that the Tribunes cannot be relied upon to keep the ship of state functioning. Why? Because legally they cannot do anything withing the Senate when acting as a presiding magistrate except summon the Senate and only for very limited non-binding results.
 
In Nova Roma the Tribunes have very definite powers to summon the senate, BUT the lex Didia confines this power to that permitted under the Senate's own internal rules. During my consulship the Senate set restrictions on what the Tribunes can do within its walls. The Senate's right to decide this is absolute as per the Constitution - its internal rules. Now, the Tribunes can only call the Senate to order for the purposes of asking advice from the Senate in respect of a matter that concerns the constitutionally mandated responsibilities of the tribunes. They cannot preside over a session where an SCU is enacted. They can only generate non-binding SC's that are advice ONLY. This is to avoid the collusion that took place in 2010 by some Tribunes with the coup attempt, or tribunes attempting to hijack the normal processes of government within Nova Roma.
 
The job of the Tribunes is not to break a log jam between two consuls facing off against each other. Tribunes protect the Constitution and the law. That means they don't just go off on tangents of vetoing things just because they don't like them. They have to demonstrate that the law/Constitution has been violated OR their spirit has been. Equally they come to the Senate as permitted observers, and participants by permission of the presiding magistrate. They are not the Senatorial nanny whose job it is to protect the Senate from inactivity generated by two warring consuls. As Crassus points out, the princeps senatus fulfills that role now.
 
Two consuls vetoing each other is Roman. Two consuls vetoing each other and bringing Nova Roma to a grinding halt is idiotic, quite likely very Roman, but idiotic. There are legal obligations that the Senate (Board of Directors) of Nova Roma (Inc.) has to comply with, so clearly there must be the option for that stalemate between two consuls to be broken. So where two consuls are locked in a veto war, especially of Senate session calls, if the princeps senatus can be convinced to call the Senate to order (as per the Senate's rules) then the Senate can be given a chance to voice its opinion of two consuls behaving like this. In prior years the Senate might not be able to formally voice its opinion and direct the consuls to adopt a different approach, but now through the office of the princeps senatus it has its own independent voice, and has the opportunity to sanction and/or direct the consuls.
 
Optime valete

From: Aemilius Crassus <c.aemilius.crassus@...

 
Salve Canine,

I'm sorry to say but I don't see the Tribuni having such duty and to the best of my knowldge the only safeguard in our days is the power to call the Senate of the Princeps Senatus.

A tribunus can only veto an illegal action and a Consul veto is by definition a legal action.

Vale optime,
Crassus




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92324 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia L. Cornelio Sullae Omnibusque S.P.D.


In response to Sulla's original questions.

Avete Omnes,

I have a question, well actually two.

1.  Having been consul, I know that the position generally does operate with the knowledge of conflict that goes on between the two individuals who hold equal imperium.  How will you and your colleague deal with the inevitable conflict that will be generated over the course of the year?

SCJA:  In a perfect world we would simply say "Conflict?  What Conflict?  Friends don't have conflict!"  Or we could respond with the statement of "simply just hugging it out till one us of turns blue".   Which we all know that is a daydreamer's illusion.  

Of course there is going to be conflict.  Its the nature of the job.  However how far that conflict escalates is in the hands of myself and 
Crassus.  Keep in mind citizens that the conflicts between magistrates are oft not seen in public view.  Crasse and I have been good friends long enough to act like reasonable and mature adults if there is an issue that brings discord.  I feel this question asks in a not-so-indirect way "What will you do when your colleague decides to veto you?"

The process of intercessio (veto) is a very Roman thing.  And it is inevitable if my colleague and I cannot come to a resolution that is comparable to both parties.  A veto issued is probably evitable.  As I have always viewed vetoes, the Magistrate who receives the veto had better be prepared to accept the action and go back to the drawing board or be prepared to veto back.  Although you should question if you are vetoing for the right reason.  We have seen many Consuls in the past (They-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named) who vetoed for all the wrong reasons simply because they could. Crassus nor myself are these people.

2.  How will you and your colleague ensure that the laws passed and any new legislation is properly implemented in Nova Roma?

SCVJA: By working with other magistrates it is going to be an ongoing task, started by Sulla earlier this year to ensure that the current laws in force are properly implemented, reviewed for ongoing consideration or if necessary altered.  I know Sulla began this process earlier this year, but this is one of those ongoing processes that will never end and that is something that must be recognized for the responsibility this entails.

Valete bene,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92325 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-18
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia C. Mariae Caecae Omnibusque S.P.D.

In response to the questions C. Maria Caeca has asked in this thread.


C. Maria Caeca C. Aemilio Crasso Sta Corneliae Aeterniae Omnibusque S. P. D.

 

As I am sure many of us remember, a situation arose in 2010 during which each Consul disagreed so much with the other that if one summoned the Senate, the other automatically vetoed the Senate call.  The result was that the Senate couldn’t convene, and, eventually, the Government ground to a halt and was unable to function.

 

While it is true we have had 3 “sets” of Consuls since then, I think it fair to say that it looks as though this will be the first time since then that we will have 2 active Consuls.  Frankly, I look forward to this, but I do want to ask you something.  Even if you are in conflict over an issue, and even if you strongly disagree, would either of you ever consider vetoing a Senate call by the other, to prevent the Senate from doing its business?


SCJA:  To begin with even if two Consuls are fighting it out.  Thanks to Caesar there are now systems in place where the Senate can continue conducting its business as necessary.  Secondly, in the event that we find an issue that we both have developed into a extreme state of conflict with each other.   Which I believe is unlikely, I will not cease to attempt to find some middle ground in an effort to preserve our service to the Res Publica but more importantly to preserve our friendship.



Valete bene,

Aeternia 

 





Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92326 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Question for the Consul candidates

Salve Aeternia!

 

Thank you for your very sensible response, it was what I expected and hoped to hear.

 

Vale Bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92327 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda

C. Petronius L. Sullae salutem,


Ok. Is a law against some people... I wonder what a such law was suddenly necessary. A kind of privilegium. I presume that the back alley's sort is necessary for the Republic. Vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XIV Kalendas Ianuarias MMDCCLXVI


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92328 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Io Saturnalia!!
Salvete Omnes,

Io Saturnalia!  To all who are celebrating it around the world.

Valete bene,
Aeternia





--
"De mortuis nil nisi bonum"
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92329 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Ave,

Nice try Dexter, but no.  This law would be applied equally to you, me or anyone who falls within the parameters as dictated by the proposed lex.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92330 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Questions for the Censorial Candidate
Salve Sulla et Salvete Omnes,

Well I won't debate the personal views on what it takes to be a "Force Of Nature"..

But I will say this much.

If there are others who feel the same way you do regarding Gens Reform perhaps it is something that could viewed more closely in the upcoming year.

In any case thank you for your prompt response.

Valete bene,,
Aeternia


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92331 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Questions for the Censorial Candidate
Ave,

I believe completely that there are sufficient people who would absolutely welcome Gens reform.  Had I not gotten into the conflict with the College of Pontiffs earlier this year I would have absolutely worked on a comprehensive and sensible approach to gens and familiae reform that would have pushed the pendulum back closer to how Nova Roma functioned for the first 10 years when a slightly more focused emphasis on the gentes system as opposed to the familia system until a point when the familia were established via evolutionary progress as people get married and have kids or join in mass as already established families.   That would be far better than having families of just one person, which is predominately what we currently have with little to no gentes cohesion at all.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92332 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Questions for the Praetorial Candidates
Salve Placidus,

See my comments below. Some snipping for brevity sake.
Salve, Æternia. Below you will find my answers to your questions.They are short because, somewhat differently from my prospective colleague Caninus (sorry!), I am not really a person who talks a lot, and the essence of my job resides more in what I actually do than in what I say.

SCJA:  Understandable, no worries on that end. :-) 

The simplest and I think most effective step that I intend to take is to let EVERYTHING that comes out the Prætura be immedially known to both fora. And by "everything" I actually mean everything - edicts, announcements, news, reports on Ludi events, invitations, etc. The whole of Nova Roma shall immediately be aware of whatever is happening inside the Prætura. Also, I will strongly encourage all the subscribers to the FH to participate as much as they can to discussions and debates happening on the main list. Their voices do deserve to be heard as well. 

SCJA:  I agree their voices do deserve to be heard. But what of those on the FH who are not citizens.  How will you as Praetors keep them engaged and not become bored?


Of course I will!

SCJA:  Excellent!  Thank you for your prompt response!

Valete bene,
Aeternia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92333 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Questions for the Praetorial Candidates
Salve Caninus,

I am all about Social Media and incorporating more of it into Nova Roma.  Yes there is my new Twitter Feed but there is also the Official Nova Roma Pinterest Board.  
Updates usually take place on what I call "Pinterest Tuesdays".

Thank you for your prompt response.

Valete bene et Bonam Noctem,
Aeternia
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92334 From: Gnaeus Iulius Caesar Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Questions for the Censorial Candidate
Salve amica

With Sulla and I it is diamond cut diamond. Where there have been minor differences it hasn't affected our friendship or ability to work together. There will be no junior or senior censor with he and I. In fact given that he has held the office at least a couple of times before I would regard his experience as senior. Bottom line is if there are any disagreements it won't end with the oft seen pants-on-head magisterial public hissy-fit that NR has witnessed before.

Our friendship was forged in the days when the Boni were cast as the "villains" of Nova Roma. Yet it was Sulla and I who faced down the coup attempt with the absolute promise to personally sue Marinus into oblivion if he, as an illegally appointed dictator, touched one dollar of the Treasury. Given that was the only reason he consulted a lawyer Nova Roma's funds were not looted, I find it mildly amusing that those Tom Fools who called Sulla a dictator this year probably either wouldn't have been here and been proscribed, or have been standing in the wreckage of a Nova Roma with an emptied Treasury. 

I guess those two ole villains, the (ex) Boni, didn't do too badly after all in defending the res publica now did they ;) Not only that, Sulla and I had sketched out what needed to be done in each of our consular years to repair Nova Roma. It was planned and put to the vote, in my year in the Senate for senate repair matters and in Sulla's year to the people. I therefore have absolute faith in our ability to work together.

Vale bene
Caesar


From: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@... <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com  
Ave,

I believe completely that there are sufficient people who would absolutely welcome Gens reform.  Had I not gotten into the conflict with the College of Pontiffs earlier this year I would have absolutely worked on a comprehensive and sensible approach to gens and familiae reform that would have pushed the pendulum back closer to how Nova Roma functioned for the first 10 years when a slightly more focused emphasis on the gentes system as opposed to the familia system until a point when the familia were established via evolutionary progress as people get married and have kids or join in mass as already established families.   That would be far better than having families of just one person, which is predominately what we currently have with little to no gentes cohesion at all.

Respectfully,

Sulla


On Wed, Dec 18, 2013 at 10:23 PM, Belle Morte Statia <syrenslullaby@...



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92335 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Lentulus Sullae cos. sal.

Problems:

1) There is no Latin word like "exilius". The Latin word is "exsul", but it means "exiled, banished person". So, when the proposal writes  "A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an exsilius." it is meaningless, contradictory and a nonsense. Resigned citizens aren't banished or exiled! Disappeared citizen aren't banshed or exiled either.

2) There is also no Latin word like "excensus". Why do we have to torture the Latin tongue, when there are absolutely clear English word like "unregistered", "suspended", "inactive" and others we offered?

3) The section III which modifies Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda creates a chaos:

3.a) First, it establsihes that:

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an exsilius."

and

"A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma may also be treated as a exsilius"

So a citizen who doesn't respond a Census is an "exsilius" (exiled), and a citizen who renounces citizenship is also an "exsilius". Confusing.


3.b) Then goes on to establish that:

"Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a excensus after failing to register with one census."

Now what is it then?! A person who does not register on the Census is an "exsilius" (exiled) OR "excensus" (uncensused)?? Now which is the term?


3.c) Next, which deepens the confusion and trouble:

"Any excensus or former Citizen in a excensus status"

So now a former Citizen is also in the excensus status? First it is stated that a census-unregistered (disappeared) citizen is an "exsilius". Then it is stated that a census-unregistered citizen is an "excensus". Then now it is stated that a former citizen is also an excensus? Has that any meaning at all? Or if it has, why the need for this convoluted confusion?

3.d) Next:

"Any excensus or former Citizen in a excensus status who fails to register with a census"

How can an excensus, who is excensus because failed to register with the census, now fail AGAIN to register with the census. It was above established that a person who fails to register is an excensus. Now how could an excensus fail to answer to something which he has already failed to answer?

4) And finally, in section IV, another confusion:

“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated as exsilius and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen,"

A banished citizen is also a former citizen (correctly so). Okay. But above we read that a former citizen can be in excensus status. So a banished citizen may also be an excensus? In the same category as a person who missed a census?

With this text one hardly can decipher what are the definitions, and it just gets more confusing because the Latin words mean a different thing than their English intended meaning. "Exsilius" (wrong Latin "exiled, banished", instead of "exsul") applied for census-unregistered cives, also applied for former citizens, while the only category where it would be appropriate, banished citizens, aren't defined in the text with this word (or correctly with "exsul").


I respectfully request this section be corrected to a more understandable and consistent wording and terms.

Here is what I propose (the same result, just correct terms) for section III (
modifying Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda):

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an unregistered citizen. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship or by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma is defined as a former citizen. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes unregistered, and temporarily suspended, after failing to register with one census. Any unregistered or former Citizen who fails to reestablish citizenship may, at the discretion of the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.”

And for section IV:

“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated an unregistered citizen and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen, devoid of any and all legal rights within Nova Roma.”


VALE!

Lentulus



Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
 
Ave!

Here is the final draft of this proposed lex:

PROPOSED Lex:  Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda (Proposed name)
 
I.        For the purpose of section V of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda, the “prevailing legal procedures” shall be defined as those procedures contained within a Senatus consultum, which at the time of the enactment of this lex is the “Senatus consultum on the reapplication process for citizenship”, passed 2765 A.U.C. A senatus consultum issued after the enactment of this lex may amend, or enhance, the “prevailing legal procedures”. 
II.                  Section II.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“Citizenship from Nova Roma may be voluntarily relinquished by either:
1.     Notification of the Censors. Submission to the Censors by the citizen intending to resign of an intention to resign citizenship should be made in writing with the intention clearly stated, and may be transmitted in writing via any available means.
2.     A statement of intent to resign citizenship made in writing by the citizen intending to resign in a public communications forum, list, board or venue, electronic or otherwise, whether that forum is owned or controlled by Nova Roma or not, to which the censors or another magistrate (as described in section IV.A or section IV.B of the Nova Roman Constitution) or a provincial governor of Nova Roma has access. Such intent may also be made by email to a magistrate or provincial governor. The magistrate or governor shall forward verbatim the text of the resignation and provide any electronic hyperlink to such a statement or a forwarded copy of the email concerned.  The censors shall exercise collegiate judgment in whether to accept any such communication at section II.A.2 as intent to resign citizenship.”   
III.                Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an exsilius. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma may also be treated as a exsilius for the purposes of this lex. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a excensus after failing to register with one census. Any excensus or former Citizen in a excensus status who fails to register with a census or who fails to otherwise reestablish citizenship may, at the discretion of the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.”
IV.   Section IV of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a subsection C to read:
“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated as exsilius and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen, devoid of any and all legal rights within Nova Roma.”
V.                  Section VI.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“When a former Citizen applies for reinstatement of citizenship, a waiting period of ninety (90) days must precede the reestablishment of citizenship. A former Citizen whose citizenship was removed by the process of banishment is not entitled to a restoration of any titles, honors and/or effects of past public offices (including census points). In the case of any other Citizen who was exsilius or excensus the restoration of any titles, honors and/or effects of past public offices (excluding census points) shall be at the discretion of, the censors acting in a collegiate manner. The restoration of census points for a person who was exsilius or excensus shall be determined by the process in section XXXX of this lex.”
VI.                Section VI.C of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“Any census points that are due under the terms of this lex to a returning Citizen must be restored at the time that citizenship is legally re-established by the censors.”
VII.              Section VIII.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“All rights and privileges of citizenship are restored to a Citizen at the time his or her citizenship is re-established, subject to any legal prohibitions, cancellations, or any other such restriction, that may exist at the time of re-establishment of citizenship.”
VIII.        The Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a section IX. ((Census Point loss)) which shall have the following sub-sections:
“A. Voluntary resignations shall be classified as follows:
1.  Personal: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation of a non-Nova Roman nature
2.  NR dispute: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation where a conflict, conducted in public or private, has occurred over matters that relate to Nova Roman matters, between the Citizen resigning Citizenship and another Citizen(s), or a former Citizen(s) or another person(s)
3.       No reason: No reason is provided in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately
4.  No warning: The Citizen resigning, while holding office, whether elected or appointed, gave no prior notice of an intent to resign, thus preventing alternative solutions to resignation being discussed
5.  2nd resignation: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship twice.
6.  3rd plus resignations: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship three or more times.
B. A Citizen who has voluntarily resigned shall be classed as either “citizen” (not holding elected or appointed office at the time of resignation), “minor official” (holding an office at the time of resignation, whether that office was elected or by appointment, that was not censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor) or “major official” (held office at the time of resignation as censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor).
C. Upon restoration of Citizenship, except in cases where the returning Citizen is returning from a period of legal banishment that has now expired, the amount of Citizen Points (CP) that must be returned to the Citizen is based on the table below “at VIII.D”, Where the amount of loss is listed as a percentage, that percentage must be deducted from the CP held by the Citizen at the time of his/her resignation, or the fixed amount of actual CP that must be deducted. After calculation of a percentage loss, the result of CP if less than a whole number shall be rounded down. If after deduction of a fixed amount of CP this results in a negative number, that shall be recorded in the Citizen’s Album Civium. The censors shall administer the application of the CP deductions in the table below.
D. Census Point loss table
        Personal    NR Dispute    No reason    No warning    2nd resignation    3rd plus resignation
Citizen                  20% loss   35% loss           50% loss      N/A                   100% loss           Set CP to -100
Minor official    30% loss    60% loss          80% loss      +20% loss        2x % loss            Set CP to -250
Major official     50% loss   80% loss          100% loss    2x % loss          3x % loss           Set CP to -500
Notes:                                                                                                                                                                  & nbsp;               
1) 2nd resignation of a person deemed at the time of resignation does not require that he/she was also an official on 1st resignation.                                                                                                       
2) Results of CP loss may place the resigned citizen in negative balance, which he/she will have to work off balance before CP can be earned.                                                                                                           
3) Tax rates will be addressed through Senatus consultum (tax is the prerogative of the Senate) but persons who have resigned and returned will be required to pay the Nova Roman tax for the class they were in prior to CP loss. 
4) CP loss will be calculated at the time of resignation, not upon returning, and amount of loss noted on citizen's Album page together with the class and century they were in at time of resignation.
5) The table is read left to right, so the censors shall first determine which applies; Personal, NR dispute or No reason. Then they shall determine if warning was not given and apply the enhanced penalties indicated, and finally evaluate if the citizen has resigned two, or three (or more) times and apply those penalty enhancers.
6) +20% means that this 20% is added to either, 30%, 60% or 80% depending on which applies to the Citizen.
7) 2x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of two; 3x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of three.
 



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92336 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Salvete!

"Exsilius" and "Excensus" are made-up words, resembling similar Latin words used for related purposes, which were proposed to define, respectively, those who were banished and those (not banished) who for whatever reason are unregistered citizens.

There is nothing wrong with making up words and it is done in every language, living or dead.  It is not torture.  Now what about the word "uncensused?"

Valete!
Quadratus


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: cn_corn_lent@...
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 12:22:34 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda

 

Lentulus Sullae cos. sal.

Problems:

1) There is no Latin word like "exilius". The Latin word is "exsul", but it means "exiled, banished person". So, when the proposal writes  "A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an exsilius." it is meaningless, contradictory and a nonsense. Resigned citizens aren't banished or exiled! Disappeared citizen aren't banshed or exiled either.

2) There is also no Latin word like "excensus". Why do we have to torture the Latin tongue, when there are absolutely clear English word like "unregistered", "suspended", "inactive" and others we offered?

3) The section III which modifies Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda creates a chaos:

3.a) First, it establsihes that:

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an exsilius."

and

"A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma may also be treated as a exsilius"

So a citizen who doesn't respond a Census is an "exsilius" (exiled), and a citizen who renounces citizenship is also an "exsilius". Confusing.


3.b) Then goes on to establish that:

"Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a excensus after failing to register with one census."

Now what is it then?! A person who does not register on the Census is an "exsilius" (exiled) OR "excensus" (uncensused)?? Now which is the term?


3.c) Next, which deepens the confusion and trouble:

"Any excensus or former Citizen in a excensus status"

So now a former Citizen is also in the excensus status? First it is stated that a census-unregistered (disappeared) citizen is an "exsilius". Then it is stated that a census-unregistered citizen is an "excensus". Then now it is stated that a former citizen is also an excensus? Has that any meaning at all? Or if it has, why the need for this convoluted confusion?

3.d) Next:

"Any excensus or former Citizen in a excensus status who fails to register with a census"

How can an excensus, who is excensus because failed to register with the census, now fail AGAIN to register with the census. It was above established that a person who fails to register is an excensus. Now how could an excensus fail to answer to something which he has already failed to answer?

4) And finally, in section IV, another confusion:

“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated as exsilius and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen,"

A banished citizen is also a former citizen (correctly so). Okay. But above we read that a former citizen can be in excensus status. So a banished citizen may also be an excensus? In the same category as a person who missed a census?

With this text one hardly can decipher what are the definitions, and it just gets more confusing because the Latin words mean a different thing than their English intended meaning. "Exsilius" (wrong Latin "exiled, banished", instead of "exsul") applied for census-unregistered cives, also applied for former citizens, while the only category where it would be appropriate, banished citizens, aren't defined in the text with this word (or correctly with "exsul").


I respectfully request this section be corrected to a more understandable and consistent wording and terms.

Here is what I propose (the same result, just correct terms) for section III (
modifying Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda):

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an unregistered citizen. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship or by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma is defined as a former citizen. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes unregistered, and temporarily suspended, after failing to register with one census. Any unregistered or former Citizen who fails to reestablish citizenship may, at the discretion of the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.”

And for section IV:

“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated an unregistered citizen and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen, devoid of any and all legal rights within Nova Roma.”


VALE!

Lentulus



Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
 
Ave!

Here is the final draft of this proposed lex:

PROPOSED Lex:  Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda (Proposed name)
 
I.        For the purpose of section V of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda, the “prevailing legal procedures” shall be defined as those procedures contained within a Senatus consultum, which at the time of the enactment of this lex is the “Senatus consultum on the reapplication process for citizenship”, passed 2765 A.U.C. A senatus consultum issued after the enactment of this lex may amend, or enhance, the “prevailing legal procedures”. 
II.                  Section II.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“Citizenship from Nova Roma may be voluntarily relinquished by either:
1.     Notification of the Censors. Submission to the Censors by the citizen intending to resign of an intention to resign citizenship should be made in writing with the intention clearly stated, and may be transmitted in writing via any available means.
2.     A statement of intent to resign citizenship made in writing by the citizen intending to resign in a public communications forum, list, board or venue, electronic or otherwise, whether that forum is owned or controlled by Nova Roma or not, to which the censors or another magistrate (as described in section IV.A or section IV.B of the Nova Roman Constitution) or a provincial governor of Nova Roma has access. Such intent may also be made by email to a magistrate or provincial governor. The magistrate or governor shall forward verbatim the text of the resignation and provide any electronic hyperlink to such a statement or a forwarded copy of the email concerned.  The censors shall exercise collegiate judgment in whether to accept any such communication at section II.A.2 as intent to resign citizenship.”   
III.                Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an exsilius. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma may also be treated as a exsilius for the purposes of this lex. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a excensus after failing to register with one census. Any excensus or former Citizen in a excensus status who fails to register with a census or who fails to otherwise reestablish citizenship may, at the discretion of the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.”
IV.   Section IV of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a subsection C to read:
“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated as exsilius and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen, devoid of any and all legal rights within Nova Roma.”
V.                  Section VI.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“When a former Citizen applies for reinstatement of citizenship, a waiting period of ninety (90) days must precede the reestablishment of citizenship. A former Citizen whose citizenship was removed by the process of banishment is not entitled to a restoration of any titles, honors and/or effects of past public offices (including census points). In the case of any other Citizen who was exsilius or excensus the restoration of any titles, honors and/or effects of past public offices (excluding census points) shall be at the discretion of, the censors acting in a collegiate manner. The restoration of census points for a person who was exsilius or excensus shall be determined by the process in section XXXX of this lex.”
VI.                Section VI.C of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“Any census points that are due under the terms of this lex to a returning Citizen must be restored at the time that citizenship is legally re-established by the censors.”
VII.              Section VIII.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“All rights and privileges of citizenship are restored to a Citizen at the time his or her citizenship is re-established, subject to any legal prohibitions, cancellations, or any other such restriction, that may exist at the time of re-establishment of citizenship.”
VIII.        The Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a section IX. ((Census Point loss)) which shall have the following sub-sections:
“A. Voluntary resignations shall be classified as follows:
1.  Personal: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation of a non-Nova Roman nature
2.  NR dispute: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation where a conflict, conducted in public or private, has occurred over matters that relate to Nova Roman matters, between the Citizen resigning Citizenship and another Citizen(s), or a former Citizen(s) or another person(s)
3.       No reason: No reason is provided in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately
4.  No warning: The Citizen resigning, while holding office, whether elected or appointed, gave no prior notice of an intent to resign, thus preventing alternative solutions to resignation being discussed
5.  2nd resignation: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship twice.
6.  3rd plus resignations: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship three or more times.
B. A Citizen who has voluntarily resigned shall be classed as either “citizen” (not holding elected or appointed office at the time of resignation), “minor official” (holding an office at the time of resignation, whether that office was elected or by appointment, that was not censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor) or “major official” (held office at the time of resignation as censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor).
C. Upon restoration of Citizenship, except in cases where the returning Citizen is returning from a period of legal banishment that has now expired, the amount of Citizen Points (CP) that must be returned to the Citizen is based on the table below “at VIII.D”, Where the amount of loss is listed as a percentage, that percentage must be deducted from the CP held by the Citizen at the time of his/her resignation, or the fixed amount of actual CP that must be deducted. After calculation of a percentage loss, the result of CP if less than a whole number shall be rounded down. If after deduction of a fixed amount of CP this results in a negative number, that shall be recorded in the Citizen’s Album Civium. The censors shall administer the application of the CP deductions in the table below.
D. Census Point loss table
        Personal    NR Dispute    No reason    No warning    2nd resignation    3rd plus resignation
Citizen                  20% loss   35% loss           50% loss      N/A                   100% loss           Set CP to -100
Minor official    30% loss    60% loss          80% loss      +20% loss        2x % loss            Set CP to -250
Major official     50% loss   80% loss          100% loss    2x % loss          3x % loss           Set CP to -500
Notes:                                                                                                                                                                   nbsp;               
1) 2nd resignation of a person deemed at the time of resignation does not require that he/she was also an official on 1st resignation.                                                                                                       
2) Results of CP loss may place the resigned citizen in negative balance, which he/she will have to work off balance before CP can be earned.                                                                                                           
3) Tax rates will be addressed through Senatus consultum (tax is the prerogative of the Senate) but persons who have resigned and returned will be required to pay the Nova Roman tax for the class they were in prior to CP loss. 
4) CP loss will be calculated at the time of resignation, not upon returning, and amount of loss noted on citizen's Album page together with the class and century they were in at time of resignation.
5) The table is read left to right, so the censors shall first determine which applies; Personal, NR dispute or No reason. Then they shall determine if warning was not given and apply the enhanced penalties indicated, and finally evaluate if the citizen has resigned two, or three (or more) times and apply those penalty enhancers.
6) +20% means that this 20% is added to either, 30%, 60% or 80% depending on which applies to the Citizen.
7) 2x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of two; 3x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of three.
 




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92337 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Ave,

No one raised any objection when Quadratus came up with the term earlier in the Contio. 

I am half at mind to just declare them all Exilius for simplicity stake and leave it at that, but with less than 48 hours on the Contio no more changes.

Item IV that you raised is not valid, again being a literalist you obviously see an issue with it.  But as an native English speaker all it is saying is that as a former citizen they have that title until they rejoin, if they rejoin.  This is why Caesar had Socius as a blanket term in the first place that you didnt like.    Number 4 makes perfect sense and does not need to be changed.

Item III also points out the obvious.  There is nothing wrong with that sentence.  Again, being a literalist you take it exactly at face value.  All this sentence is saying is the obvious.  An exsilius did not answer the census and thus is a former citizen.  It works.

Vale,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92338 From: gaius_pompeius_marcellus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Io Satunalia

Seasons Greetings to all


Gaius Pompeius Marcellus, Lpp AMS

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92339 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Salvete!

It is important to be precise when defining citizenship status. 

I don't think that a failure to register for the census should be deemed an act of expatriation.  Removing oneself from the body politic should require intent, not mere negligence.  Thus, a citizen who fails to register should not, without more, be deemed a non-citizen. 

Be that as it may, the term "Socius" normally refers to a non-citizen ally or associate and it would be best to restrict the term to that use.

Valete!
Quadratus


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: robert.woolwine@...
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 07:32:32 -0700
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda

 

Ave,

No one raised any objection when Quadratus came up with the term earlier in the Contio. 

I am half at mind to just declare them all Exilius for simplicity stake and leave it at that, but with less than 48 hours on the Contio no more changes.

Item IV that you raised is not valid, again being a literalist you obviously see an issue with it.  But as an native English speaker all it is saying is that as a former citizen they have that title until they rejoin, if they rejoin.  This is why Caesar had Socius as a blanket term in the first place that you didnt like.    Number 4 makes perfect sense and does not need to be changed.

Item III also points out the obvious.  There is nothing wrong with that sentence.  Again, being a literalist you take it exactly at face value.  All this sentence is saying is the obvious.  An exsilius did not answer the census and thus is a former citizen.  It works.

Vale,

Sulla



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92340 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Ave,

I agree, this is why I chose to go with the wording changes you recommended.  They are more precise then using Socius.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92341 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda

Cn. Lentulus quaestor L. Sullae consuli sal.


ask a Latinist to do it for him. Latin is good, it is the best, but when we don't know the Latin word for something it is always better to use English.


IV that you raised is not valid, again being a literalist you obviously see an issue with it.  <<<


Literalist? I think it would take 3 minutes to search after my past public messages in this or other forums to see that I am almost always arguing on grounds like the "spirit of the law", "common sense", "Roman tradition", and I was said to depart from the literal texts of the law in my arguments. Just a day or so ago that I argued about the intercessio right of tribunes on the ground of the spirit of the law and of the intention of the constitution. I demonstrated, against the literal meaning of the lex Didia (!) how the tribunician intercessio could be understood based on common sense, logic and in coherence with the spirit and intention of the constitution, and based on the entirety of the body of our Roman based law system. So no, if anything, maybe I'm on the opposit side from a literalist. But when confusing terms are used in a law proposal (when the law is supposed to make the things clear!), then it is not about being a literalist or non-literalist, but it is about being precise or confusing.


saying is that as a former citizen they have that title until they rejoin, if they rejoin.  <<<


I can't understand why you are reluctant to simply include clear definitions. It can't hurt, it can only help. In the current text, all categories are cross-referenced. In one sentence the disappeared citizens are called "exsilius", in the next sentence "excensus", then, again, in another sentence resigned citizens are called "exsilius", then former citizens as "excensus". All types are called on all names, really. Maybe you could demonstrate to me that it is not illogical. Fine. Let's suppose I was lazy in my efforts to see the clear system in this, and in fact I just did not notice. But when I point out that it is confusing or at least hard to understand, why don't you change it to something that is less confusing and easier to see through (more transparent).


blanket term in the first place that you didnt like. <<<


The term Socius has been in this law for the past 12-13 years, it was not Caesar who had it. And it is not about that I "did not like" it. I don't care about what I like or not, when commenting on the law. I happen to like the term "Socius" a lot. But when used in its own place. The problem was that it did not mean what it was used for. We could use the term "Gladiator" for unregistered citizen just as well, and it would be wrong in the same way. Gladiator is the star fighter of the arena, not an unregistered citizen of Nova Roma, Socius is a citizen of an NR allied State, not an unregistered citizen of Nova Roma.

Vale!


Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
 
Ave,

No one raised any objection when Quadratus came up with the term earlier in the Contio. 

I am half at mind to just declare them all Exilius for simplicity stake and leave it at that, but with less than 48 hours on the Contio no more changes.

Item IV that you raised is not valid, again being a literalist you obviously see an issue with it.  But as an native English speaker all it is saying is that as a former citizen they have that title until they rejoin, if they rejoin.  This is why Caesar had Socius as a blanket term in the first place that you didnt like.    Number 4 makes perfect sense and does not need to be changed.

Item III also points out the obvious.  There is nothing wrong with that sentence.  Again, being a literalist you take it exactly at face value.  All this sentence is saying is the obvious.  An exsilius did not answer the census and thus is a former citizen.  It works.

Vale,

Sulla




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92342 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Questions for the Censorial Candidate
Cn. Lentulus L. Sullae censori candidato sal.


for Roman names, I intend to follow the laws in regards to naming conventions that Nova Roma has adopted throughout its existence.  Though I would like to have some flexibility built into the system as much as it can be allowed. <<<


I am glad to hear that you intend to respect the Roman traditions and naming customs. I would only add in connection with your second sentence about flexibility that it is a false belief that NR is currently not flexible with names. A reading of our "Choosing a Roman name" page will show you that we have almost unlimited flexibility as long as it keeps in line with the authentic Roman spirit. Every praenomen and nomen gentile that ever exsisted may be taken by the applicants, and all cognomina (except honorary like Augustus, Felix etc...) that ever existed can also be taken. In addition to this, applicants are allowed to take new names that never existed in Rome, the only criterion is that the words they choose be in line with the spirit of Roman cognomina. For example, he can not take the cognomen "Io Saturnalia", because it would be simply a nonsense, but he can take "Astronauta" if he (or his father, or grandfather) is an austronaut, even if the word and concept "austronauta" did not exist in Roman times. They can also take names like Thomas, Smithus (for Smith), Cynethus (Kenneth) and all sorts of modern names if this is their real name. So basically the only names that can't be taken are the words which can not have a Latin form, or the things and expressions that could not be a name.

And a last thought on flexibility: I remember M. Pompeius said some time ago that he dislike the fact that he could not give different cognomen than Caninus to his daughters. Citizens can do even that per censorial request! The law requires a uniform way in order to create a Roman norm of Roman tradition in our community. But who are dedicated enough to their idea and intention to have a uniquely former family name for their offspring, it is possible, as are possible many other things, via censorial petition.

Vale!
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92343 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Lentulus Quadrato s. p. d.


I did not remember that you suggested the terms exsilius and excensus. When I said "torturing Latin", I did not intend to blame or offend you, and if it came up as such, I truly apologize.
I think my choice of words were unfortunate.

Fact is, making up words is a valid thing and it has its place in Latin as well. You are quite right pointing out this. But two considerations enter here. First, when we create a new word, we must use the internal rules of Latin word formation, Latin suffixes etc. For example, "exsularis" is an extremely rare but valid word formation from "exsul", which is found in Latin, and "exsiliatus" (exiled) is a valid word formation from exsilium (the exile), which is not found in Latin, but it could exist, according to the principles of the language. The other thing to consider is that when there is already an accepted and well used word, used by the Romans themselves, creating a newly invented word is not sure that justified. In the current case, I took the liberty to raise objections against exsilius because it goes against both considerations. Because it is not formed by means allowed in Latin (from exsul you can't make exsilius, it would be exsularis, and from exsilium you can't make it either, but it would be exsiliatus or exsiliaris). The word "excensus" can be better defended, but since there is no urgent need for it (there are hundreds of terms in NR we use in English, including the very term "citizen", so I don't think we need to be more Latin when we say exiled, than when we say citizen), and since it is dubious, it is better not used. This is why I wrote what I wrote, which, I repeat, was an excessive statement especially when you created the word from good intention.

Vale!


Da: "charlesaronowitz@..." <charlesaronowitz@...
 
Salvete!

"Exsilius" and "Excensus" are made-up words, resembling similar Latin words used for related purposes, which were proposed to define, respectively, those who were banished and those (not banished) who for whatever reason are unregistered citizens.

There is nothing wrong with making up words and it is done in every language, living or dead.  It is not torture.  Now what about the word "uncensused?"

Valete!
Quadratus


To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: cn_corn_lent@...
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 12:22:34 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda

 

Lentulus Sullae cos. sal.

Problems:

1) There is no Latin word like "exilius". The Latin word is "exsul", but it means "exiled, banished person". So, when the proposal writes  "A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an exsilius." it is meaningless, contradictory and a nonsense. Resigned citizens aren't banished or exiled! Disappeared citizen aren't banshed or exiled either.

2) There is also no Latin word like "excensus". Why do we have to torture the Latin tongue, when there are absolutely clear English word like "unregistered", "suspended", "inactive" and others we offered?

3) The section III which modifies Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda creates a chaos:

3.a) First, it establsihes that:

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an exsilius."

and

"A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma may also be treated as a exsilius"

So a citizen who doesn't respond a Census is an "exsilius" (exiled), and a citizen who renounces citizenship is also an "exsilius". Confusing.


3.b) Then goes on to establish that:

"Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a excensus after failing to register with one census."

Now what is it then?! A person who does not register on the Census is an "exsilius" (exiled) OR "excensus" (uncensused)?? Now which is the term?


3.c) Next, which deepens the confusion and trouble:

"Any excensus or former Citizen in a excensus status"

So now a former Citizen is also in the excensus status? First it is stated that a census-unregistered (disappeared) citizen is an "exsilius". Then it is stated that a census-unregistered citizen is an "excensus". Then now it is stated that a former citizen is also an excensus? Has that any meaning at all? Or if it has, why the need for this convoluted confusion?

3.d) Next:

"Any excensus or former Citizen in a excensus status who fails to register with a census"

How can an excensus, who is excensus because failed to register with the census, now fail AGAIN to register with the census. It was above established that a person who fails to register is an excensus. Now how could an excensus fail to answer to something which he has already failed to answer?

4) And finally, in section IV, another confusion:

“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated as exsilius and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen,"

A banished citizen is also a former citizen (correctly so). Okay. But above we read that a former citizen can be in excensus status. So a banished citizen may also be an excensus? In the same category as a person who missed a census?

With this text one hardly can decipher what are the definitions, and it just gets more confusing because the Latin words mean a different thing than their English intended meaning. "Exsilius" (wrong Latin "exiled, banished", instead of "exsul") applied for census-unregistered cives, also applied for former citizens, while the only category where it would be appropriate, banished citizens, aren't defined in the text with this word (or correctly with "exsul").


I respectfully request this section be corrected to a more understandable and consistent wording and terms.

Here is what I propose (the same result, just correct terms) for section III (
modifying Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda):

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an unregistered citizen. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship or by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma is defined as a former citizen. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes unregistered, and temporarily suspended, after failing to register with one census. Any unregistered or former Citizen who fails to reestablish citizenship may, at the discretion of the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.”

And for section IV:

“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated an unregistered citizen and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen, devoid of any and all legal rights within Nova Roma.”


VALE!

Lentulus



Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
 
Ave!

Here is the final draft of this proposed lex:

PROPOSED Lex:  Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda (Proposed name)
 
I.        For the purpose of section V of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda, the “prevailing legal procedures” shall be defined as those procedures contained within a Senatus consultum, which at the time of the enactment of this lex is the “Senatus consultum on the reapplication process for citizenship”, passed 2765 A.U.C. A senatus consultum issued after the enactment of this lex may amend, or enhance, the “prevailing legal procedures”. 
II.                  Section II.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“Citizenship from Nova Roma may be voluntarily relinquished by either:
1.     Notification of the Censors. Submission to the Censors by the citizen intending to resign of an intention to resign citizenship should be made in writing with the intention clearly stated, and may be transmitted in writing via any available means.
2.     A statement of intent to resign citizenship made in writing by the citizen intending to resign in a public communications forum, list, board or venue, electronic or otherwise, whether that forum is owned or controlled by Nova Roma or not, to which the censors or another magistrate (as described in section IV.A or section IV.B of the Nova Roman Constitution) or a provincial governor of Nova Roma has access. Such intent may also be made by email to a magistrate or provincial governor. The magistrate or governor shall forward verbatim the text of the resignation and provide any electronic hyperlink to such a statement or a forwarded copy of the email concerned.  The censors shall exercise collegiate judgment in whether to accept any such communication at section II.A.2 as intent to resign citizenship.”   
III.                Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an exsilius. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma may also be treated as a exsilius for the purposes of this lex. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a excensus after failing to register with one census. Any excensus or former Citizen in a excensus status who fails to register with a census or who fails to otherwise reestablish citizenship may, at the discretion of the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.”
IV.   Section IV of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a subsection C to read:
“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated as exsilius and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen, devoid of any and all legal rights within Nova Roma.”
V.                  Section VI.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“When a former Citizen applies for reinstatement of citizenship, a waiting period of ninety (90) days must precede the reestablishment of citizenship. A former Citizen whose citizenship was removed by the process of banishment is not entitled to a restoration of any titles, honors and/or effects of past public offices (including census points). In the case of any other Citizen who was exsilius or excensus the restoration of any titles, honors and/or effects of past public offices (excluding census points) shall be at the discretion of, the censors acting in a collegiate manner. The restoration of census points for a person who was exsilius or excensus shall be determined by the process in section XXXX of this lex.”
VI.                Section VI.C of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“Any census points that are due under the terms of this lex to a returning Citizen must be restored at the time that citizenship is legally re-established by the censors.”
VII.              Section VIII.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“All rights and privileges of citizenship are restored to a Citizen at the time his or her citizenship is re-established, subject to any legal prohibitions, cancellations, or any other such restriction, that may exist at the time of re-establishment of citizenship.”
VIII.        The Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a section IX. ((Census Point loss)) which shall have the following sub-sections:
“A. Voluntary resignations shall be classified as follows:
1.  Personal: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation of a non-Nova Roman nature
2.  NR dispute: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation where a conflict, conducted in public or private, has occurred over matters that relate to Nova Roman matters, between the Citizen resigning Citizenship and another Citizen(s), or a former Citizen(s) or another person(s)
3.       No reason: No reason is provided in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately
4.  No warning: The Citizen resigning, while holding office, whether elected or appointed, gave no prior notice of an intent to resign, thus preventing alternative solutions to resignation being discussed
5.  2nd resignation: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship twice.
6.  3rd plus resignations: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship three or more times.
B. A Citizen who has voluntarily resigned shall be classed as either “citizen” (not holding elected or appointed office at the time of resignation), “minor official” (holding an office at the time of resignation, whether that office was elected or by appointment, that was not censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor) or “major official” (held office at the time of resignation as censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor).
C. Upon restoration of Citizenship, except in cases where the returning Citizen is returning from a period of legal banishment that has now expired, the amount of Citizen Points (CP) that must be returned to the Citizen is based on the table below “at VIII.D”, Where the amount of loss is listed as a percentage, that percentage must be deducted from the CP held by the Citizen at the time of his/her resignation, or the fixed amount of actual CP that must be deducted. After calculation of a percentage loss, the result of CP if less than a whole number shall be rounded down. If after deduction of a fixed amount of CP this results in a negative number, that shall be recorded in the Citizen’s Album Civium. The censors shall administer the application of the CP deductions in the table below.
D. Census Point loss table
        Personal    NR Dispute    No reason    No warning    2nd resignation    3rd plus resignation
Citizen                  20% loss   35% loss           50% loss      N/A                   100% loss           Set CP to -100
Minor official    30% loss    60% loss          80% loss      +20% loss        2x % loss            Set CP to -250
Major official     50% loss   80% loss          100% loss    2x % loss          3x % loss           Set CP to -500
Notes:                                                                                                                                                                   nbsp;               
1) 2nd resignation of a person deemed at the time of resignation does not require that he/she was also an official on 1st resignation.                                                                                                       
2) Results of CP loss may place the resigned citizen in negative balance, which he/she will have to work off balance before CP can be earned.                                                                                                           
3) Tax rates will be addressed through Senatus consultum (tax is the prerogative of the Senate) but persons who have resigned and returned will be required to pay the Nova Roman tax for the class they were in prior to CP loss. 
4) CP loss will be calculated at the time of resignation, not upon returning, and amount of loss noted on citizen's Album page together with the class and century they were in at time of resignation.
5) The table is read left to right, so the censors shall first determine which applies; Personal, NR dispute or No reason. Then they shall determine if warning was not given and apply the enhanced penalties indicated, and finally evaluate if the citizen has resigned two, or three (or more) times and apply those penalty enhancers.
6) +20% means that this 20% is added to either, 30%, 60% or 80% depending on which applies to the Citizen.
7) 2x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of two; 3x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of three.
 






Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92344 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Ave,

You want the honest reason why I don't consider your opinion?  

It's easy.  You won't vote for the law anyway.  Your probably campaigning against the law behind the scenes.  In other words, you have no credibility with me.  This is why I fired you.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "Cn. Cornelius Lentulus"
Date:12/19/2013 12:54 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda

 


Cn. Lentulus quaestor L. Sullae consuli sal.


ask a Latinist to do it for him. Latin is good, it is the best, but when we don't know the Latin word for something it is always better to use English.


IV that you raised is not valid, again being a literalist you obviously see an issue with it.  <<<


Literalist? I think it would take 3 minutes to search after my past public messages in this or other forums to see that I am almost always arguing on grounds like the "spirit of the law", "common sense", "Roman tradition", and I was said to depart from the literal texts of the law in my arguments. Just a day or so ago that I argued about the intercessio right of tribunes on the ground of the spirit of the law and of the intention of the constitution. I demonstrated, against the literal meaning of the lex Didia (!) how the tribunician intercessio could be understood based on common sense, logic and in coherence with the spirit and intention of the constitution, and based on the entirety of the body of our Roman based law system. So no, if anything, maybe I'm on the opposit side from a literalist. But when confusing terms are used in a law proposal (when the law is supposed to make the things clear!), then it is not about being a literalist or non-literalist, but it is about being precise or confusing.


saying is that as a former citizen they have that title until they rejoin, if they rejoin.  <<<


I can't understand why you are reluctant to simply include clear definitions. It can't hurt, it can only help. In the current text, all categories are cross-referenced. In one sentence the disappeared citizens are called "exsilius", in the next sentence "excensus", then, again, in another sentence resigned citizens are called "exsilius", then former citizens as "excensus". All types are called on all names, really. Maybe you could demonstrate to me that it is not illogical. Fine. Let's suppose I was lazy in my efforts to see the clear system in this, and in fact I just did not notice. But when I point out that it is confusing or at least hard to understand, why don't you change it to something that is less confusing and easier to see through (more transparent).


blanket term in the first place that you didnt like. <<<


The term Socius has been in this law for the past 12-13 years, it was not Caesar who had it. And it is not about that I "did not like" it. I don't care about what I like or not, when commenting on the law. I happen to like the term "Socius" a lot. But when used in its own place. The problem was that it did not mean what it was used for. We could use the term "Gladiator" for unregistered citizen just as well, and it would be wrong in the same way. Gladiator is the star fighter of the arena, not an unregistered citizen of Nova Roma, Socius is a citizen of an NR allied State, not an unregistered citizen of Nova Roma.

Vale!


Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
 
Ave,

No one raised any objection when Quadratus came up with the term earlier in the Contio. 

I am half at mind to just declare them all Exilius for simplicity stake and leave it at that, but with less than 48 hours on the Contio no more changes.

Item IV that you raised is not valid, again being a literalist you obviously see an issue with it.  But as an native English speaker all it is saying is that as a former citizen they have that title until they rejoin, if they rejoin.  This is why Caesar had Socius as a blanket term in the first place that you didnt like.    Number 4 makes perfect sense and does not need to be changed.

Item III also points out the obvious.  There is nothing wrong with that sentence.  Again, being a literalist you take it exactly at face value.  All this sentence is saying is the obvious.  An exsilius did not answer the census and thus is a former citizen.  It works.

Vale,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92345 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
SALVE ET SALVETE!

However the major interest, which in our case is to have well and clear writen laws, must exceed personal reasons.
What Lentulus will vote has not the same relevance in comparision with his opinion as experienced Latinist.

VALETE,
Sabinus

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--------------------------------------------
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92346 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
Lentulus Sabino et Sullae sal.

And what's more, I would vote "yes" on the proposal (just as I will on the constitutional modification), if it would be corrected, so it is not true that I "wouldn't vote for the law anyway."

Valete!
Lentulus


Da: iulius sabinus <iulius_sabinus@... font-weight:bold;">Oggetto: Re: [Nova-Roma] Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda

 
SALVE ET SALVETE!

However the major interest, which in our case is to have well and clear writen laws, must exceed personal reasons.
What Lentulus will vote has not the same relevance in comparision with his opinion as experienced Latinist.

VALETE,
Sabinus

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--------------------------------------------


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92347 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda

Ave

It does.  But I'm not going to bend over and expend extra effort on a lost cause either. 

Here's the thing I like the law as it is.  I stand by what Caesar wrote.  I took the suggestion to change the vocabulary.

So, no one can say that I didn't listen to the suggestions of others, I've done that all year long.  But, I'm not going to break my branch over a lost cause who has proven to work behind the scenes against my effort regardless of my effort to compromise. 

Respectfully,

Sulla

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92348 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
SALVE ET SALVETE!

And I know you are available for compromises. I really now. I know Lentulus too and in the same way, I can say he has good intentions.
Well, time solves all.

VALETE,
Sabinus


"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--------------------------------------------
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92349 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda
A. Tullia Scholastica C. Claudio Quadrato quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D. 

 

Salvete!

"Exsilius" and "Excensus" are made-up words, resembling similar Latin words used for related purposes, which were proposed to define, respectively, those who were banished and those (not banished) who for whatever reason are unregistered citizens.

There is nothing wrong with making up words and it is done in every language, living or dead.  It is not torture.  Now what about the word "uncensused?"

While neologism is nothing new (despite its name), it happens that there are rules for that sort of thing.  One does not invent Latin words out of Cheerios or Scrabble letter blocks.  Both Lentulus and I have learned the rules for Latin word creation at the hands of a master known for his expertise in such matters, and if for no other reason than to avoid being a laughingstock among the cognoscenti, we should follow those rules.  Too many people think they can do whatever they want, linguistically or otherwise.  We may need to divide the category now known as 'socii,' but let us do this correctly.  Now maybe Lentulus should not invent English words, but both of us can do that with Latin ones.  So can others who know how.   How is your computatrix (computer) doing today?  What about your mobile / gestabile (cell phone)?  Would you let one of us Latinists fix your plumbing or carve out your appendix?  No; then let us apply our expertise where it belongs:  classical languages, philology, etc.  Lentulus and I can evaluate Latin neologisms.  It would be wise to pay attention to us on these points.  




Valete!
Quadratus

Vale(te)!  



To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
From: cn_corn_lent@...
Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2013 12:22:34 +0000
Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Final Draft - Lex Cornelia de Civitate eiuranda

 

Lentulus Sullae cos. sal.

Problems:

1) There is no Latin word like "exilius". The Latin word is "exsul", but it means "exiled, banished person". So, when the proposal writes  "A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an exsilius." it is meaningless, contradictory and a nonsense. Resigned citizens aren't banished or exiled! Disappeared citizen aren't banshed or exiled either.

2) There is also no Latin word like "excensus". Why do we have to torture the Latin tongue, when there are absolutely clear English word like "unregistered", "suspended", "inactive" and others we offered?

3) The section III which modifies Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda creates a chaos:

3.a) First, it establsihes that:

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an exsilius."

and

"A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma may also be treated as a exsilius"

So a citizen who doesn't respond a Census is an "exsilius" (exiled), and a citizen who renounces citizenship is also an "exsilius". Confusing.


3.b) Then goes on to establish that:

"Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a excensus after failing to register with one census."

Now what is it then?! A person who does not register on the Census is an "exsilius" (exiled) OR "excensus" (uncensused)?? Now which is the term?


3.c) Next, which deepens the confusion and trouble:

"Any excensus or former Citizen in a excensus status"

So now a former Citizen is also in the excensus status? First it is stated that a census-unregistered (disappeared) citizen is an "exsilius". Then it is stated that a census-unregistered citizen is an "excensus". Then now it is stated that a former citizen is also an excensus? Has that any meaning at all? Or if it has, why the need for this convoluted confusion?

3.d) Next:

"Any excensus or former Citizen in a excensus status who fails to register with a census"

How can an excensus, who is excensus because failed to register with the census, now fail AGAIN to register with the census. It was above established that a person who fails to register is an excensus. Now how could an excensus fail to answer to something which he has already failed to answer?

4) And finally, in section IV, another confusion:

“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated as exsilius and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen,"

A banished citizen is also a former citizen (correctly so). Okay. But above we read that a former citizen can be in excensus status. So a banished citizen may also be an excensus? In the same category as a person who missed a census?

With this text one hardly can decipher what are the definitions, and it just gets more confusing because the Latin words mean a different thing than their English intended meaning. "Exsilius" (wrong Latin "exiled, banished", instead of "exsul") applied for census-unregistered cives, also applied for former citizens, while the only category where it would be appropriate, banished citizens, aren't defined in the text with this word (or correctly with "exsul").


I respectfully request this section be corrected to a more understandable and consistent wording and terms.

Here is what I propose (the same result, just correct terms) for section III (
modifying Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda):

“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an unregistered citizen. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship or by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma is defined as a former citizen. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes unregistered, and temporarily suspended, after failing to register with one census. Any unregistered or former Citizen who fails to reestablish citizenship may, at the discretion of the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.”

And for section IV:

“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated an unregistered citizen and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen, devoid of any and all legal rights within Nova Roma.”


VALE!

Lentulus



Da: Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
Ave!

Here is the final draft of this proposed lex:

PROPOSED Lex:  Lex Cornelia de civitate eiuranda (Proposed name)
 
I.        For the purpose of section V of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda, the “prevailing legal procedures” shall be defined as those procedures contained within a Senatus consultum, which at the time of the enactment of this lex is the “Senatus consultum on the reapplication process for citizenship”, passed 2765 A.U.C. A senatus consultum issued after the enactment of this lex may amend, or enhance, the “prevailing legal procedures”. 
II.                  Section II.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“Citizenship from Nova Roma may be voluntarily relinquished by either:
1.     Notification of the Censors. Submission to the Censors by the citizen intending to resign of anintention to resign citizenship should be made in writing with the intention clearly stated, and may be transmitted in writing via any available means.
2.     A statement of intent to resign citizenship made in writing by the citizen intending to resign in a public communications forum, list, board or venue, electronic or otherwise,whether that forum is owned or controlled by Nova Roma or not, to which thecensors or another magistrate (as described in section IV.A or section IV.B of the Nova Roman Constitution) or a provincial governor of Nova Roma has access. Such intent may also be made by email to a magistrate or provincial governor. The magistrate or governor shall forward verbatim the text of the resignation and provide any electronic hyperlink to such a statement or a forwarded copy of the email concerned.  The censors shall exercise collegiate judgment in whether to accept any such communication at section II.A.2 as intent to resign citizenship.”   
III.                Section IV.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“A Citizen whose citizenship is temporarily suspended under the Lex Fabia de Censu is known as an exsilius. A Citizen who voluntarily relinquishes citizenship by submitting a resignation from Nova Roma may also be treated as a exsilius for the purposes of this lex. Under the lex Fabia de Censu, a Citizen becomes a excensus after failing to register with one census. Any excensus or former Citizen in a excensus status who fails to register with a census or who fails to otherwise reestablish citizenship may, at the discretion of the Censors, have his or her status terminated, and thus be removed from the censorial Album Civium.”
IV.   Section IV of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a subsection C to read:
“A citizen subject to banishment imposed under the terms of any lex shall not be treated as exsilius and upon imposition of the banishment shall be treated as a former citizen, devoid of any and all legal rights within Nova Roma.”
V.                  Section VI.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“When a former Citizen applies for reinstatement of citizenship, a waiting period of ninety (90) days must precede the reestablishment of citizenship. A former Citizen whose citizenship was removed by the process of banishment is not entitled to a restoration of any titles, honors and/or effects of past public offices (including census points). In the case of any other Citizen who was exsilius or excensus the restoration of any titles, honors and/or effects of past public offices (excluding census points) shall be at the discretion of, the censors acting in a collegiate manner. The restoration of census points for a person who was exsilius or excensus shall be determined by the process in section XXXX of this lex.”
VI.                Section VI.C of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“Any census points that are due under the terms of this lex to a returning Citizen must be restored at the time that citizenship is legally re-established by the censors.”
VII.              Section VIII.A of the Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended to read:
“All rights and privileges of citizenship are restored to a Citizen at the time his or her citizenship is re-established, subject to any legal prohibitions, cancellations, or any other such restriction, that may exist at the time of re-establishment of citizenship.”
VIII.        The Lex Minucia Moravia de civitate eiuranda is amended by the insertion of a section IX. ((Census Point loss)) which shall have the following sub-sections:
“A. Voluntary resignations shall be classified as follows:
1.  Personal: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation of a non-Nova Roman nature
2.  NR dispute: The reason provided, in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately, clearly relates to a situation where a conflict, conducted in public or private, has occurred over matters that relate to Nova Roman matters, between the Citizen resigning Citizenship and another Citizen(s), or a former Citizen(s) or another person(s)
3.       No reason: No reason is provided in the judgment of the censors acting collegiately
4.  No warning: The Citizen resigning, while holding office, whether elected or appointed, gave no prior notice of an intent to resign, thus preventing alternative solutions to resignation being discussed
5.  2nd resignation: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship twice.
6.  3rd plus resignations: The Citizen has resigned his/her citizenship three or more times.
B. A Citizen who has voluntarily resigned shall be classed as either “citizen” (not holding elected or appointed office at the time of resignation), “minor official” (holding an office at the time of resignation, whether that office was elected or by appointment, that was not censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor) or “major official” (held office at the time of resignation as censor, consul, praetor or provincial governor).
C. Upon restoration of Citizenship, except in cases where the returning Citizen is returning from a period of legal banishment that has now expired, the amount of Citizen Points (CP) that must be returned to the Citizen is based on the table below “at VIII.D”, Where the amount of loss is listed as a percentage, that percentage must be deducted from the CP held by the Citizen at the time of his/her resignation, or the fixed amount of actual CP that must be deducted. After calculation of a percentage loss, the result of CP if less than a whole number shall be rounded down. If after deduction of a fixed amount of CP this results in a negative number, that shall be recorded in the Citizen’s Album Civium. The censors shall administer the application of the CP deductions in the table below.
D. Census Point loss table
        Personal    NR Dispute    No reason    No warning    2nd resignation    3rd plus resignation
Citizen                  20% loss   35% loss           50% loss      N/A                   100% loss           Set CP to -100
Minor official    30% loss    60% loss          80% loss      +20% loss        2x % loss            Set CP to -250
Major official     50% loss   80% loss          100% loss    2x % loss          3x % loss           Set CP to -500
Notes:                                                                                                                                                                   nbsp;               
1) 2nd resignation of a person deemed at the time of resignation does not require that he/she was also an official on 1st resignation.                                                                                                       
2) Results of CP loss may place the resigned citizen in negative balance, which he/she will have to work off balance before CP can be earned.                                                                                                           
3) Tax rates will be addressed through Senatus consultum (tax is the prerogative of the Senate) but persons who have resigned and returned will be required to pay the Nova Roman tax for the class they were in prior to CP loss. 
4) CP loss will be calculated at the time of resignation, not upon returning, and amount of loss noted on citizen's Album page together with the class and century they were in at time of resignation.
5) The table is read left to right, so the censors shall first determine which applies; Personal, NR dispute or Noreason. Then they shall determine if warning was not given and apply the enhanced penalties indicated, and finally evaluate if the citizen has resigned two, or three (or more) times and apply those penalty enhancers.
6) +20% means that this 20% is added to either, 30%, 60% or 80% depending on which applies to the Citizen.
7) 2x % loss means that the prior amount calculated is multiplied by a factor of two; 3x % loss means that the prioramount calculated is multiplied by a factor of three.
 




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92350 From: Ugo Coppola Date: 2013-12-19
Subject: Re: Questions for the Praetorial Candidates
Salve iterum, Æternia.

SCJA:  I agree their voices do deserve to be heard. But what of those on the FH who are not citizens.  How will you as Praetors keep them engaged and not become bored?

I think that a very nice form of engagement even for non-citizens would be, for example, to let them know about laws or law proposals being discussed on the main list. I am afraid this is not the case right now, because the law being discussed is one regarding ex-citizens (renounced or disappeared citizens), so I doubt that such a law could be of any interest at all to people who are not (yet) citizens. But it may surely happen in the near future that a law gets discussed in the main list which may be commented upon by everyone who is within Nova Roma, even by people who are just passing through - like the subscribers to the FH. So I think that letting people in the FH be AT LEAST aware that a law is being discussed on the main list (e.g. via a shortened, simplified summary, or a similar strategy) may be a really good step towards making them feel actually involved in the active life of our community, other than simply being here to "breathe the air".

Optime vale,
Placidus




Questa e-mail è priva di virus e malware perché è attiva la protezione avast! Antivirus .


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92351 From: gaius_pompeius_marcellus Date: 2013-12-20
Subject: Yahoo groups

Salve,

One of my citizens, Theresa, is having difficulty with the current Yahoo Groups forum, Is there anything anyone can do about this? Perhaps another forum?

Vale,

Gaius Pompeius Marcellus, Lpp AMS


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92352 From: L. Livia Plauta Date: 2013-12-20
Subject: Resignation of citizenship
L. Livia Plauta omnibus Sal.

Even though I have been too lazy to resign my citizenship before, when
almost all the people who seriously follow the Roman religion were driven
out, I find now is an appropriate moment to resign my citizenship, on the
verge of the approval of a new law that would label me with a made-up
macaroni-Latin word anyway for not responding to the census.
It has become simply too embarrassing to be associated with an organization
that promotes ignorance, in the first place ignorance of Latin.
If someone wants to keep in touch with me they can write to my email address
livia.plauta@... or they can find me on Facebook as Livia Plauta, as
many of you already did.
I do hope this message is enough to resign: if not please let me know to
whom I should write.
Valete,
L. Livia Plauta
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92353 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-20
Subject: Re: Resignation of citizenship

Lentulus Liviae et omnibus s. p. d. 

Nova Roma has lost one of the best citizens who ever existed in our ranks, who once gave more to this res publica than most of us, and a best friend among fellow citizens, and a hero of the work of making Pannonia the most active NR provincia! A truly sad day...

I hope to see you one day back, in a more successful Nova Roma.

Vale optime!


Da: L. Livia Plauta <livia.plauta@... my email address
livia.plauta@... or they can find me on Facebook as Livia Plauta, as
many of you already did.
I do hope this message is enough to resign: if not please let me know to
whom I should write.
Valete,
L. Livia Plauta



------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

<* email:
    Nova-Roma-digest@yahoogroups.com
    Nova-Roma-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com

<*
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92354 From: robert.woolwine@gmail.com Date: 2013-12-20
Subject: Re: Resignation of citizenship
Ave,

Here is a perfect example of precisely why this law is needed.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 3, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone


-------- Original message --------
From: "L. Livia Plauta"
Date:12/20/2013 2:07 PM (GMT-07:00)
To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Nova-Roma] Resignation of citizenship

L. Livia Plauta omnibus Sal.

Even though I have been too lazy to resign my citizenship before, when
almost all the people who seriously follow the Roman religion were driven
out, I find now is an appropriate moment to resign my citizenship, on the
verge of the approval of a new law that would label me with a made-up
macaroni-Latin word anyway for not responding to the census.
It has become simply too embarrassing to be associated with an organization
that promotes ignorance, in the first place ignorance of Latin.
If someone wants to keep in touch with me they can write to my email address
livia.plauta@... or they can find me on Facebook as Livia Plauta, as
many of you already did.
I do hope this message is enough to resign: if not please let me know to
whom I should write.
Valete,
L. Livia Plauta



------------------------------------

Yahoo Groups Links

<*
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92355 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-20
Subject: Report of the Senate session ended on 13 Dec 2013
Marcus Pompeius Caninus quiritibus salutem dicit:


Senate Voting Results published on 20 December 2013 - a.d. XIII Kal. Ian. MMDCCLXVI A.U.C.


Presiding Magistrate:
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix, Consul


Quorum:
Decius Iunius Palladius is on Leave - his Proxy is assigned to Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix


SCHEDULE:
09:00 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 25-Nov-2013 : Call to order. Debate period commences.
09:00 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 3-Dec-2013 : Debate period ends.
09:01 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 4-Dec-2013 : Call to vote. Voting period commences.
09:01 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 12-Dec-2013 : Voting period ends.
11:59 PM MOUNTAIN TIME 13-Dec-2013 : Call to close issued before this time.


VOTING AGENDA:
Item I - Renaming the Provinces Established from the previous senate session
Item II - Provincial Reform on America Medioccidentalis Superior
Item III - SENATUS CONSULTUM ON THE POSITION OF CFO – 2766 A.U.C.
Item IV - Request for use of Nova Roman Trademark - on behalf of Gn. Iulius Caesar
Item V - Book Compilation Issue (Multiple items)
A. Does the Senate Authorize the book in question to be republished and sold?
B. Does the Senate Direct L. Vitellius Triarius to make a good faith effort to contact all the contributors of the book to seek their approval before republishing? Also, that L. Vitellius Triarius to
notify the Senate of his results prior to the republishing of the book?
C. Does the Senate direct next year's consuls to draft procedures and all necessary agreements to meet and protect the organization?
D. Does Nova Roma retain the ownership of the content in all official public fora or Sodalitas?
E. Does Nova Roma adopt the following (This Notice was prepared and posted by M. Pompeius Caninus):
"I, NAME HERE, am a volunteer with Nova Roma, Inc. For consideration which I acknowledge, I agree to assign to Nova Roma, Inc., the copyright in any materials I create (the Works) within the course of my volunteer work. By assigning all right, title, and interest in the Works, Nova Roma, Inc. agrees to:

1. allow me to include the Works or a reproduction of the Works in my portfolio or other such compilation, to be shown to my prospective employers or clients. All such portfolio uses must include a notice of Nova Roma, Inc.' copyright ownership;

2. acknowledge my transfer of the Works to Nova Roma, Inc. as a charitable contribution;

3. make a good faith effort to provide me with attribution in all versions of the Works.

I warrant that any works I create pursuant to this agreement are original and do not infringe any intellectual property rights or violate any laws related to libel, privacy, or otherwise. I agree to indemnify Nova Roma, Inc. in any action arising out of, or relating to, these representations and warranties.

Volunteer Signature:

Volunteer Name:

Volunteer Address:

Date:"
F. Does Nova Roma adopt the following disclaimer (This notice I received from Q. Fabius Maximus):
"************CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE************

Information contained in this e-mail is confidential and is intended solely for its recipient. If you are not the intended recipient of this message and you have had access to such information by means of this e-mail, you are not authorized to copy this e-mail or forward it to any person other than the intended recipient. Please delete and destroy the original message.
Sending emails does not ensure that transmission is safe or error free. Any information is subject to alteration with no prior notice, and this will be sufficient grounds to release this  company upon the occurrence of any potential damages caused by the undue and incorrect use of the information. This communication is for the sole purpose of informing and it shall not be deemed as a proposal, acceptance or official declaration by NOVA ROMA INC in MAINE, USA, UNLESS otherwise stated. "

G. Compensation: PLEASE VOTE FOR ONLY ONE OPTION ON THIS QUESTION) Should the arrangement for compensation for the sale of the book(s) compiled by L. Vitellus Triarius be based on the following percentage:
1. 80% to Nova Roma vs 20% to Triarius
2. 50% to Nova Roma vs 50% to Triarius
3. 20% to Nova Roma vs 80% to Triarius
Item VI - Appointment of Governor - Lucius Ulpius Atellus
Item VII - Future Fund raising Authorization Senatus Consulta
Item VIII - Elevation to Patrician Status Recommendation to C. Decius
Laterensis


The Senate has finished its latest session and the votes have been tallied as shown below.


The following 15 senators or voting members of the Senate cast votes in time. They are referred to below by their initials and are listed in alphabetical order by nomen:
* CAC C. Aemilius Crassus, Praetor
* PACP P. Annaeus Constantinus Placidus
* MCGG M. Cornelius Gualterus Graecus
* LCSF L. Cornelius Sulla Felix, Acting Princeps Sen.
* SCVIA Sta. Cornelia Valeriana Iuliana Aeternia
* QFM Q. Fabius Maximus
* CnIC Cn. Iulius Caesar
* DeIPI De. Iunius Palladius Invictus, Princeps Sen.(on leave)
* TIS T. Iulius Sabinus
* CMC C. Marcius Crispus
* PoMS Po. Minucia Strabo
* MPC M. Pompeius Caninus
* QSP Q. Suetonius Paulinus
* CTVG C. Tullius Valerianus Germanicus
* LVT L. Vitellius Triarius


The following 7 senators or voting members of the Senate did not cast a vote or did not cast a vote on time:
* M. Cassius Julianus
* L. Equitius Cincinnatus Augur
* Ti. Galerius Paulinus
* M. Minucius Audens
* C. Petronius Dexter
* P. Ullerius Stephanus Venator
* C. Vipsanius Agrippa


In the voting results shown below "Uti Rogas" indicates a vote in favor of an item, "Antiquo" is a vote against, and "Abstineo" is an open abstention.


_______

==Item I - Renaming the Provinces Established from the previous senate session==


===Proposal===
This will be the new province names for the American Provinces:

I - Arizona, Nevada and Utah will be known as: Provincia America Deserta
II - New Mexico and Colorado will be known as: Provincia America Hispanica
III - Texas and Oklahoma will be known as: Provincia America Texia
IV - Arkansas and Louisiana will be known as: Provincia America Gallica
V - Mississippi and Alabama will be known as: Provincia America Mississippiensis
VI - Tennessee and Kentucky will be known as Provincia America Transappalachiana
VII - Florida and Georgia will be known as: Provincia Georgia Florida
VIII - North and South Carolina will be known as: Provincia Carolina
IX - Alaska and Hawaii will be known as: Provincia Alasca et Havaia
X - Idaho, Oregon and Washington State will be known as: Provincia America Oregonensis
XI - Northern California will be known as: Provincia California Franciscensis
XII - Southern California will be known as: Provincia California Angelensis
XIII - Wisconsin and Michigan will be known as Provincia Lacus Magni
XIV - Illinois and Indiana will be known as: Provincia America Cismississippiana
XV - Ohio will be known as: Provincia Ohio
XVI - New York and New Jersey will be known as: Provincia America Noveboracensis
XVII - Pennsylvania and Delaware will be known as: Provincia Mediatlantica
XVIII - Maryland and DC will be known as: Provincia Columbia
XIX - West Virginia and Virginia will be known as: Provincia Virginia

For the record this provinces were already established. This Senatus Consulta is just correcting the names to make them more Latin Compliant. I would also like to thank Gn. Cornelius Lentulus for providing the correct naming for these newly created provinces.


===Results===
Uti rogas: 13
Antiquo: 2
Abstineo: 0
PASSED


===Individual Votes===
* CAC Antiquo "I agree with Senator Fabius Maximus and think the
California Provinces need to be better named."
* PACP Uti rogas
* MCGG Uti rogas
* LCSF Uti rogas
* SCVIA Uti rogas
* QFM Antiquo "Lentulus translation of Latin is flawed. Superior
means higher. Inferior lower. In Proximity to Rome Mosia Inferior was
closer but so what? I want upper/lower California. I don't want Saints'
names in a non Christian religious province. You send the wrong
message."
* CnIC Uti rogas
* DeIPI Uti rogas
* TIS Uti rogas
* CMC Uti rogas
* PoMS Uti rogas
* MPC Uti rogas "However, the names for the two new provinces in
California need to be reconsidered so the provinces have names that are
neither generic nor associated with Christian saints."
* QSP Uti rogas
* CTVG Uti rogas "Though I feel that the issues with the names in
California still need to be fully resolved."
* LVT Uti rogas "I believe, however, the Consul and current Governor
of the California provincia should be allowed to finalize the names of
the two new California provinciae. I agree with Senator Fabius that the
proposed names should probably be changed."



==Item II - Provincial Reform on America Medioccidentalis Superior==


===Proposal===
When I drafted the Provincia Reform that was successfully passed last
session I left out one American Province - America Medioccidentalis
Superior by mistake. I respectfully request that the Senate approve
this reorganization of this province in line with the new province
makeup. With approval the following new provinces will be created:

I - Minnesota will be known as: Provincia Minnesota
II - Missouri and Iowa will be known as: Provincia America
Missuriensis
III - Kansas and Nebraska will be known as: Provincia America
Nebrascensis
IV - North and South Dakota will be known as: Provincia Dacota
V - Wyoming and Montana will be known as: Provincia America Montana

Again, I would like to thank Gn. Cornelius Lentulus for recommending the
new names of provinces, should the Senate approve this Senatus Consulta.


===Results===
Uti rogas: 15
Antiquo: 0
Abstineo: 0
PASSED


===Individual Votes===
* CAC Uti rogas
* PACP Uti rogas
* MCGG Uti rogas
* LCSF Uti rogas
* SCVIA Uti rogas
* QFM Uti rogas
* CnIC Uti rogas
* DeIPI Uti rogas
* TIS Uti rogas
* CMC Uti rogas
* PoMS Uti rogas
* MPC Uti rogas
* QSP Uti rogas
* CTVG Uti rogas
* LVT Uti rogas



==Item III - SENATUS CONSULTUM ON THE POSITION OF CFO – 2766 A.U.C==


===Proposal===
SENATUS CONSULTUM ON THE POSITION OF CFO – 2766 A.U.C.
1. By this Senatus consultum, the Senate hereby defines the position of
Chief Financial Officer (herein designated as " CFO"). An individual
shall be appointed to the position of CFO by Senatus consultum, passing
by simple majority.
2. An individual appointed to, and accepting of, the position of CFO,
shall be given access to all financial data and accounts, including but
not limited to the deposit, credit, and brokerage accounts of the
corporation and its associated entities, and all access methods thereto,
as well as the surface mail directed to Nova Roma, Inc.
3. The CFO shall report directly to the co-presidents of Nova Roma, or
in their absence, the co-vice presidents, and through them, to the Board
of Directors.
4. The CFO shall have the ability to appoint and dismiss assistants as
it sees fit, not to exceed four individuals, who shall be treated as
under direct appointment by the Board of Directors. For their service,
these individuals shall receive an amount of century points equal to
those of regularly appointed scribae.
5. The CFO, once appointed, shall serve until either he/she resigns the
position, or, until such time as the Senate revokes his/her appointment
by means of a Senatus consultum passed by an extraordinary majority, as
defined by the SENATUS CONSULTUM DE RATIONE SENATUS MMDCCLXV.
6. A incoming CFO shall be appointed to a term so as to overlap that of
an outgoing CFO by three months, during which time the incoming CFO
shall co-operate with the outgoing CFO to ensure smooth transition of
necessary access to records and operations as outlined elsewhere in this
and relevant consulta. An incoming CFO, during this three-month period,
shall also assess the financial status and performance of the
corporation and report the same to the Board of Directors, and complete
and analysis of the financial results of the corporation and develop
recommendations for future measures.
7. In the event of a vacancy in the position of CFO, the consuls shall
have the authority to appoint, from the appointed assistants to the
previous CFO, a CFO "pro tempore", for a term to last no longer than six
months from the date of appointment. By the end of that time, the Board
of Directors must appoint a new CFO, to serve the remainder of the
previous incomplete term, or if less than six months remain of that
term, to start a new term.
8. The CFO shall have overall responsibility for the financial data of
Nova Roma and its associated entities, and shall oversee all financial
operations of the organization, including, but not limited to: those
undertaken by those individuals elected by the comitia, those undertaken
by the provinciae and their subsidiaries, those undertaken by the
sodalitates, and those undertaken by the sacerdotes publici as appointed
by the Senate, Collegium Pontificum, or other body so empowered.
9. The CFO shall be responsible for the development and recommendation
of financial protocols to ensure proper compliance with laws and
regulations, both inside and outside Nova Roma, shall be responsible for
the monitoring of internal financial controls and procedures, and shall
produce financial reports to be provided to the Board of Directors at
such frequency as required by Nova Roman law.
10. The CFO shall maintain financial oversight of all accounting
practices, budget and cash management, oversight of debt financing, and
shall undertake those administrative tasks related to maintaining the
financial welfare of the corporation.
11. The CFO shall also oversee budgetary planning, make recommendations
for budgetary measures, represent the organization to the financial
community, work with the officers and other elected and appointed
individuals to ensure operational success and compliance, minimize
potential risks to the organization, and oversee business insurance
plans.
12. The CFO shall have sole responsibility for the maintenance of the
official post box for Nova Roma Inc. and shall locate it where is most
convenient to do so. The Senate approves the annual, or otherwise as
required periodic, expenditure of such funds as are necessary to keep
and maintain this post box. This post box shall be the only one
specified on the Nova Roma website / wiki as a direct mailing point of
contact for Nova Roma.
13. The Senate of Nova hereby re-appoints Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
as CFO of Nova Roma, Inc.
14. Upon enactment of this Senatus consultum:
A. The only lawful method of subsequently superseding, amending or
repealing this Senatus consultum must be by way of a Senatus consultum
that must achieve an extraordinary majority before it can be enacted.
Any other method or attempt shall be illegal and forbidden.
B. No other Senatus consultum shall be enacted where the proposed
content of which conflicts, negates, overrides, limits or otherwise
affects in a negative manner the contents and/or purposes of all or any
part of this Senatus consultum, whether directly or indirectly other
than by the method at specified at14.A of this Senatus consultum.



===Results===
Uti rogas: 13
Antiquo: 2
Abstineo: 0
PASSED


===Individual Votes===
* CAC Antiquo " can't see any reason whatever to the Senate need an
super majority to terminate the CFO term. More the position has no term
limit. I know Sulla has been, is and will be a good CFO but don't see
any reason to being creating almost perpetual positions besides Pontifex
Maximus and even that we don't have anymore."
* PACP Uti rogas
* MCGG Uti rogas
* LCSF Uti rogas
* SCVIA Uti rogas
* QFM Uti rogas "2010 we saw ruling magistrates attempt to 'give'
$10,000 dollars to a friend of one of Nova Roma's officers with the
excuse it was for NR's benefit. That was a blatant lie, the money was
actually to be divided among three people one being the ruling
magistrate. This cannot be allowed to happen again."
* CnIC Uti rogas
* DeIPI Uti rogas
* TIS Uti rogas
* CMC Uti rogas
* PoMS Uti rogas
* MPC Uti rogas "The current CFO has done an excellent job and
hopefully he will continue in this role for many years. This document
provides a thorough description of the CFO position. The Senate now has
the guidance required to find a suitable candidate for the position
should the need ever arise. But for the good of Nova Roma and the
citizens, the Senate should encourage Senator Sulla to continue serving
in this role for as long as he is willing and able to do so."
* QSP Uti rogas
* CTVG Antiquo "Although I agree with the majority of this measure,
I am voting against it because of the language requiring an
'extraordinary majority' to modify it."
* LVT Uti rogas



==Item IV - Request for use of Nova Roman Trademark - on behalf of Gn.
Iulius Caesar==


===Proposal===
SENATUS CONSULTUM ON PERMISSION TO USE NOVA ROMA TRADEMARKED ITEMS
1. By this Senatus consultum, the Senate hereby grants Gnaeus Iulius
Caesar the right to use the Nova Roman trademark item(s) in pursuit of
the opening of a CafePress store.
2. Gnaeus Iulius Caesar shall make an annual donation to the Nova Roman
Treasury, which shall be a percentage of any profits pursuant to items
that are sold bearing the Nova Roman trademarked logo(s).
3. The Percentage at section 2 above shall be a mutually negotiated
amount between the CFO of Nova Roma and Gnaeus Iulius Caesar.


===Results===
Uti rogas: 13
Antiquo: 0
Abstineo: 1
PASSED


===Individual Votes===
* CAC Uti rogas "Best luck for Senator Caesar endeavors."
* PACP Uti rogas
* MCGG Uti rogas
* LCSF Uti rogas
* SCVIA "Best of luck to Cn. Iulius Caesar on this venture."
* QFM Uti rogas
* CnIC Abstineo
* DeIPI Uti rogas
* TIS Uti rogas
* CMC Uti rogas
* PoMS Uti rogas
* MPC Uti rogas
* QSP Uti rogas
* CTVG Uti rogas
* LVT Uti rogas



==Item V - Book Compilation Issue (Multiple items)==


===Proposal===
In light of the seriousness and depth of the issue here, this item will
be broken down to individual parts that all together make up this
specific item. Each of those parts are independent but related to the
whole. Each part will stand on its own merit and a no vote on any
question will not negate any succeeding question. In other words,
please make sure to vote for EACH question.

V.A. - Does the Senate authorize the book in question to be republished
and sold?

===Results===
Uti rogas: 12
Antiquo: 0
Abstineo: 3
PASSED


===Individual Votes===
* CAC Abstineo "In my mind there is no question that anyone
contributing to the NR wiki is doing it volunteering and giving away any
personal material and texts place there. On other hand I don't know
exactly what the USA law would see it so I will abstain."
* PACP Uti rogas
* MCGG Uti rogas
* LCSF Uti rogas
* SCVIA Uti rogas "I vote 'Yes' to this item only because Item B
Directs L. Vitellius Triarius to make a good faith effort in contacting
all the contributors in seeking approval before republishing."
* QFM Uti rogas
* CnIC Uti rogas
* DeIPI Uti rogas
* TIS Uti rogas
* CMC Uti rogas
* PoMS Abstineo "I agree with the idea in principle, however I think
item B should be satisfied with regard to authors' respective approvals,
and any other legal issues carefully reviewed before we approve item A."
* MPC Uti rogas
* QSP Uti rogas
* CTVG Uti rogas
* LVT Abstineo





V.B. - Does the Senate direct L. Vitellius Triarius make a good faith
effort to contact all of the contributors of the book to see their
approval before republishing? And that he notify the Senate of his
results prior to republishing the book?


===Results===
Uti rogas: 14
Antiquo: 0
Abstineo: 1
PASSED


===Individual Votes===
* CAC Uti rogas "If Triarius managed to contact all contributors that
would be great and removed my apprension of possible future problems on
the matter."
* PACP Uti rogas "This is exactly what Triarius should do."
* MCGG Uti rogas
* LCSF Uti rogas
* SCVIA Uti rogas
* QFM Uti rogas
* CnIC Uti rogas
* DeIPI Uti rogas
* TIS Uti rogas
* CMC Uti rogas
* PoMS Uti rogas
* MPC Uti rogas
* QSP Uti rogas
* CTVG Uti rogas
* LVT Abstineo




V.C. - Does the Senate direct next year's consuls to draft procedures
and all necessary agreements to met and protect the Organization?


===Results===
Uti rogas: 14
Antiquo: 0
Abstineo: 1
PASSED


===Individual Votes===
* CAC Uti rogas "Taking this to meaning that next years Consuls should
figure if the disclaimers in the wiki are strong enough so NR can use
the wiki material as it seems fit I agree."
* PACP Uti rogas
* MCGG Uti rogas
* LCSF Uti rogas
* SCVIA Abstineo
* QFM Uti rogas
* CnIC Uti rogas
* DeIPI Uti rogas "If any additional procedures or documents need to be
drafted, reviewed and approved by the Senate."
* TIS Uti rogas
* CMC Uti rogas
* PoMS Uti rogas "with respect to the above"
* MPC Uti rogas
* QSP Uti rogas
* CTVG Uti rogas
* LVT Uti rogas




V.D. - Does Nova Roma retain the ownership of the content in all
official public fora or Sodalitas?


===Results===
Uti rogas: 12
Antiquo: 3
Abstineo: 0
PASSED


===Individual Votes===
* CAC Antiquo "No, one thing is the wiki where the authors should
know their work can be edit and in my mind no implicit copyright can be
claimed from them. The public fora and or Sodalitas don't have in my
opinion such forfeit of ownership of material."
* PACP Uti rogas
* MCGG Uti rogas
* LCSF Uti rogas
* SCVIA Antiquo "As a writer myself I hold the stance that if I write
the work then it is ultimately my work. That is non-negotiable."
* QFM Uti rogas
* CnIC Uti rogas
* DeIPI Uti rogas
* TIS Uti rogas
* CMC Uti rogas
* PoMS Antiquo "I share the concerns of G. Amelius Crassus and
Statia Cornelia"
* MPC Uti rogas "Nova Roma should retain as much control and
ownership of the archives as it can within any limits imposed by service
agreements and applicable law. However, Nova Roma should not attempt to
claim copyright for the content of email lists. Nova Roma should have a
disclaimer associated with each of the fora, possibly as part of the
group description, stating in part that the opinions expressed in the
fora do not necessarily reflect the official views of Nova Roma etc."
* QSP Uti rogas
* CTVG Uti rogas
* LVT Uti rogas




V.E. - Does Nova Roma adopt the following (This Notice was prepared and
posted by M. Pompeius Caninus)?


===Results===
Uti rogas: 13
Antiquo: 2
Abstineo: 0
PASSED


===Individual Votes===
* CAC Antiquo "First it is not clear to me that this notice means
only the wiki material. Secondly I considered it to be too much given to
NR. What I think it should say, and only for wiki material, is the
author

(Message over 64 KB, truncated)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92356 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Decretum Pontificum de camilis
Avete Dexter,

You are wishing to award century points for Camilius participants but we do not have Century points anymore.  They are called Census points.  Can you please correct the post you just did to the CP to reflect the correct terminology?

Respectfully,

Sulla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92357 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: Decretum Pontificum de camilis

Ave Sulla,


Ok, I will reflect the correct terminology.

Optime vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. XII Kalendas Ianuarias MMDCCLXVI


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92358 From: Arthur Waite Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Vote!
Salvete omnes,

This is just a reminder to everyone: it is the second day of voting in the Comitia Centuriata, so be sure cast your votes for or against the proposed legislation and for the candidates of your choice. Public participation is vital to the republican system.

Valete,

A. Paterculus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92359 From: James V Hooper Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: Vote!
Keep getting errors when I try to log in to vote

Gaius Pompeius Marcellus


On Sat, 21 Dec 2013 16:15:11 +0100
Arthur Waite <arthur.f.waite@...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92360 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: Vote!
Ave,

There are issues right now with voting.  It has not officially started yet.  Metellus is in communication with Votingplace.net to get it resolved.

As soon as it is resolved I will make an announcement opening the vote.  It goes without saying that the voting time will be extended to account for this unforseen development. 

Please bear with us while we work out the issue.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92361 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: The vote
Metellus is working on the vote now.  

It should begin in about 30 min.  The vote will be extended an extra 24 hours.

I will be getting an additional message once he is done.

Respectfully,

Sulla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92362 From: Quintus Caecilius Metellus Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: A Joyous Occasion
Q Caecilius Metellus to all sends greetings.

It is my great honour and privilege to announce the marriage of two
dear friends of mine, C Tullius Valerianus Germanicus and Ap Gratia
Auita, which took place today, 21 December 2013 CE. I am happy to
report that, despite cloudy skies this morning and some rain
yesterday, the auspices were favourable and the skies cleared before
the ceremony began, remaining clear (and sunny) throughout the wedding
and reception. I am also very happy to report that the offering of
incense and libations which were part of the ceremony were received
with no ill omens of any kind.

I give my best wishes to the newlyweds, and contine to pray the Gods
smile upon them.

With greatest regards,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92363 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
Ave,

Mazel Tov!  How wonderful!

What a wonderful event!  May there be many years of happiness :)

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92364 From: Belle Morte Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
Salvete,

Congratulations to the newlyweds!

Valete bene,
Aeternia  

Sent from my iPhone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92365 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
Salvete,

Congratulations!  I lit incense and offered a special prayer to Iuno in your honor. May both of you live long and have a very long an happy marriage! 

From our domus to yours, again, congrats!

Valete,
 
L VITELLIVS TRIARIVS


On Saturday, December 21, 2013 11:19 PM, Belle Morte <syrenslullaby@...  
Salvete,

Congratulations to the newlyweds!

Valete bene,
Aeternia  

Sent from my iPhone

On Dec 21, 2013, at 9:11 PM, Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@...


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92366 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion

C. Maria Caeca Q. Caecilius Metelle Omnibusque in foro S.P.D.

 

May the gods bless the marriage of C. Tullius Valerianus and Ap. Gratia Avita, and may the gods continue to protect and favor them, their families and their household.  May Vesta Mater always look with kind graciousness upon the fire of their hearth, and may its light keep this family safe and warm always.

 

Please pass along my very fond best wishes to both, and my hopes for their abundant joy.

 

Valete quam optime!

C. Maria Caeca Virgo Maxima Vestalis

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92367 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: VOTE IS OPEN
Avete Omnes,

The Voting phase for the Comitia Centurita has been re-opened.  Please cast your vote now.  The same voting code that was issued will work.

If you have any questions or concerns please email me privately.

Thank you for your patience.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92368 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: VOTE IS OPEN

Salvete!

 

Uh oh …I thought we’d be getting new codes, and I didn’t want to confuse myself, so I um …sigh.  Looks like a slog through my deleted messages folder.  At least I am *sure* it’s there .. somewhere.

 

Valete!

CMC reaching for her grungy clothes and hip boots.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92369 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: VOTE IS OPEN
Ave,

I will forward this to Metellus so he can resend the code to you Caeca. :)

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92370 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-21
Subject: Re: VOTE IS OPEN

Salve!

 

Thanks, but no need.  It was in an upper “layer” so I found it more quickly than I thought I would, and it now awaits my pleasure in my inbox, there I should have left it in the *first* place!

 

Vale bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92371 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion

 
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Ap. Gratiae Avitae et C. Tullio Valeriano Germanico et Q. Caecilio Metello Pio s. p. d.


Thalassio!!!

Please, dear Gratia and Valeriane, accept my sincere congratulations! I wish you a glad life with all blessings of joy!

Valete! Thalassio!
Cn. Lentulus pontifex


Da: Quintus Caecilius Metellus <q.caecilius.metellus@...
 
Q Caecilius Metellus to all sends greetings.

It is my great honour and privilege to announce the marriage of two
dear friends of mine, C Tullius Valerianus Germanicus and Ap Gratia
Auita, which took place today, 21 December 2013 CE. I am happy to
report that, despite cloudy skies this morning and some rain
yesterday, the auspices were favourable and the skies cleared before
the ceremony began, remaining clear (and sunny) throughout the wedding
and reception. I am also very happy to report that the offering of
incense and libations which were part of the ceremony were received
with no ill omens of any kind.

I give my best wishes to the newlyweds, and contine to pray the Gods
smile upon them.

With greatest regards,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92372 From: Nicole Panda Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Re: VOTE IS OPEN

Gaia Aemilia Rufa

Avete Omnes

I voted without problem. Thank you

Valete

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92373 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Re: VOTE IS OPEN
Salvete omnes!

May I please have a new vote code?

Thanks.

Valete omnes!

Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92374 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Re: VOTE IS OPEN
Ave,

Glad you were able to vote. :)

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92375 From: GAIUS MARCIUS CRISPUS Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Re: VOTE IS OPEN
Salvete omnes!

Thank you for the new code.

I have now voted.

Valete omnes!
Crispus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92376 From: Bruno Zani Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Aedilis plebis oath of office
Ego, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), hac re ipsa decus Novæ Romæ me defensurum, et semper pro populo senatuque Novæ Romæ acturum esse sollemniter IVRO.

Ego, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), officio Ædilis Plebis Novæ Romæ accepto, deos deasque Romæ in omnibus meæ vitæ publicæ temporibus culturam, et virtutes Romanas publica privataque vita me persecuturum esse IVRO.

Ego, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), Religioni Romanæ me fauturum et eam defensurum, et numquam contra eius statum publicum me acturum esse, ne quid detrimenti capiat IVRO.

Ego, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), officiis muneris ÆdiliS Plebis me quam optime functurum esse præterea IVRO.

Meo civis Novæ Romæ honore, coram deis deabusque populi Romani, et voluntate favoreque eorum, ego munus Ædilis Plebis una cum iuribus, privilegiis, muneribus et officiis comitantibus ACCIPIO.


I, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

I, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), accepting the office of Ædilis Plebis, swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Ædilis Plebis to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Ædilis Plebis and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92377 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Plebeian officials for 2767 AUC
M. Pompeius Caninus quiritibus salutem dicit:

We now have a complete set of plebeian officials sworn in and who have assumed their offices. Please join me in congratulating all of the new officers who will serve the plebeian interests of Nova Roma through December 2767 AUC.

Tribunus Plebis

Aedilis Plebis

Bene valete!

Marcus Pompeius Caninus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92378 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Re: Plebeian officials for 2767 AUC

Salvete!

 

My congratulations to our new Plebeian magistrates, and my very best wishes and prayers for your success during your tenure.  As a side note, we haven’t had a full complement of tribunes for several years, so I am very encouraged to see that this year, we will.

 

Valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92379 From: petronius_dexter Date: 2013-12-22
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion

C. Petronius Q. Metello salutem,

In France, rain is a good marriage omen, as our proverb says "Mariage pluvieux, mariage heureux." (Raining marriage, happy marriage.)

I give my best wishes to Valerianus and Avita.

Vale.

--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. X Kalendas Ianuarias MMDCCLXVI

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92380 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
TM.Quadra C. Petronius Q. Metello Salutem plurimam dicit,
Quasi. Gratulor!
nuptias in eum ne regnet.
Like. Congratulations! on your reigning marriage.
Tiberius Marcius Quadra

 
 


On Monday, December 23, 2013 2:43 PM, "jfarnoud94@..." <jfarnoud94@...  
C. Petronius Q. Metello salutem,
In France, rain is a good marriage omen, as our proverb says "Mariage pluvieux, mariage heureux." (Raining marriage, happy marriage.)
I give my best wishes to Valerianus and Avita.
Vale.
--
C. Petronius Dexter
Arcoiali scribebat
a. d. X Kalendas Ianuarias MMDCCLXVI


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92381 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Re: Aedilis plebis oath of office
TM.Quadra AL. Hadrianus Salutem plurimem dicet!
 
Quasi. Gratulor!
Like. Congratulations!
 
Faciat suggerere, in Latinum Anglis in directe supra cito relatio?
May I suggest, putting the Latin directly above the English for quick reference?
Gratulor rursus et Gratias tibi ago,
Congratulations again...
Tiberius Marcius Quadra


On Monday, December 23, 2013 11:20 AM, Bruno Zani <reenbru@...  
Ego, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), hac re ipsa decus Novæ Romæ me defensurum, et semper pro populo senatuque Novæ Romæ acturum esse sollemniter IVRO.

Ego, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), officio Ædilis Plebis Novæ Romæ accepto, deos deasque Romæ in omnibus meæ vitæ publicæ temporibus culturam, et virtutes Romanas publica privataque vita me persecuturum esse IVRO.

Ego, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), Religioni Romanæ me fauturum et eam defensurum, et numquam contra eius statum publicum me acturum esse, ne quid detrimenti capiat IVRO.

Ego, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), officiis muneris ÆdiliS Plebis me quam optime functurum esse præterea IVRO.

Meo civis Novæ Romæ honore, coram deis deabusque populi Romani, et voluntate favoreque eorum, ego munus Ædilis Plebis una cum iuribus, privilegiis, muneribus et officiis comitantibus ACCIPIO.


I, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), do hereby solemnly swear to uphold the honor of Nova Roma, and to act always in the best interests of the people and the Senate of Nova Roma.

I, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), accepting the office of Ædilis Plebis, swear to honor the Gods and Goddesses of Rome in my public dealings, and to pursue the Roman Virtues in my public and private life.

I, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), swear to uphold and defend the Religio Romana as the State Religion of Nova Roma and swear never to act in a way that would threaten its status as the State Religion.

I, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), swear to protect and defend the Constitution of Nova Roma.

I, Aulus Liburnius Hadrianus, (Bruno Zani), further swear to fulfill the obligations and responsibilities of the office of Ædilis Plebis to the best of my abilities.

On my honor as a Citizen of Nova Roma, and in the presence of the Gods and Goddesses of the Roman people and by their will and favor, do I accept the position of Ædilis Plebis and all the rights, privileges, obligations, and responsibilities attendant thereto.


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92382 From: iulius sabinus Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
SALVETE!

Congratulations to Valerianus and Avita! My best wishes to you.

VALETE,
Sabinus


"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--------------------------------------------
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92383 From: Arthur Waite Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Reminder to Vote: Comitia Centuriata

A. Iulius Paterculus omnibus in foro s.p.d.

Now that the election process is running again, everyone please take the time to cast your votes.  Your approval or lack thereof will provide the magistrates feedback which will help them to govern next year.

Valete.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92384 From: James V Hooper Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Re: Plebeian officials for 2767 AUC
Salve,
Yeas I stand with you to congratulate these people, and to wish you luck in
your own up coming vote.
C. Pomeius Marcellus




On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 19:16:53 -0700
"M. Pompeius Caninus" <caninus@...
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92385 From: ti_cassius_atellus Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion

Ti. Atellus Tullio Valeriano et Gratiae Avitae Salutem Plurimam Dicit.

This is wonderful news! I wish you both a wonderful union as you begin this new chapter of life; and that it be filled with golden memories. I hope to get to know you both better with time.

Gratulor maxime et valete optissime!

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92386 From: A. Tullia Scholastica Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
A. Tullia Scholastica Q. Caecilio Metello C. Tullio Valeriano Ap. Gratiae Avitae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D. 

Many thanks, Metelle, for informing us of this happy occasion.  My heartiest congratulations to Avita and to my cousin and colleague Valerianus.  Macte!  

Valete.  

 

Q Caecilius Metellus to all sends greetings.

It is my great honour and privilege to announce the marriage of two
dear friends of mine, C Tullius Valerianus Germanicus and Ap Gratia
Auita, which took place today, 21 December 2013 CE. I am happy to
report that, despite cloudy skies this morning and some rain
yesterday, the auspices were favourable and the skies cleared before
the ceremony began, remaining clear (and sunny) throughout the wedding
and reception. I am also very happy to report that the offering of
incense and libations which were part of the ceremony were received
with no ill omens of any kind.

I give my best wishes to the newlyweds, and contine to pray the Gods
smile upon them.

With greatest regards,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92387 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-23
Subject: Re: A Joyous Occasion
I want pictures! 


Vale,
 
L VITELLIVS TRIARIVS


On Monday, December 23, 2013 9:13 PM, A. Tullia Scholastica <fororom@...  
A. Tullia Scholastica Q. Caecilio Metello C. Tullio Valeriano Ap. Gratiae Avitae quiritibus bonae voluntatis S.P.D. 

Many thanks, Metelle, for informing us of this happy occasion.  My heartiest congratulations to Avita and to my cousin and colleague Valerianus.  Macte!  

Valete.  

 
Q Caecilius Metellus to all sends greetings.

It is my great honour and privilege to announce the marriage of two
dear friends of mine, C Tullius Valerianus Germanicus and Ap Gratia
Auita, which took place today, 21 December 2013 CE. I am happy to
report that, despite cloudy skies this morning and some rain
yesterday, the auspices were favourable and the skies cleared before
the ceremony began, remaining clear (and sunny) throughout the wedding
and reception. I am also very happy to report that the offering of
incense and libations which were part of the ceremony were received
with no ill omens of any kind.

I give my best wishes to the newlyweds, and contine to pray the Gods
smile upon them.

With greatest regards,

Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92388 From: Q Caecilius Metellus Date: 2013-12-24
Subject: The Senate of Nova Roma Is in Session
Q Caecilius Metellus, to the Citizens of Nova Roma, sends greetings.

In accordance with the laws of our community, this message is to serve
as notice that the Senate of Nova Roma has been convened by Consul
Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix.

The items to be considered are:

I. Establishment of policies for citizens under 18 years of age
II. Ratification of a pending constitutional amendment

[Both items are for debate and voting. The amendment referenced in Item
II is that currently before the Centuriate Assembly.]

The session has been convened and opened at 05:00 24 December 2766
AVC, at which time the discussion period began. The discussion period
shall end at 05:00 30 December 2766 AVC. The voting period is
designated to begin 05:01 31 December 2766 AVC, and to end at 05:01 05
January 2767 AVC. (All times expressed as time in Rome, GMT+1.)

At this point, final drafts of the items to be considered have not been
presented. Once presented, an additional message will be sent
containing those items.


Quintus Caecilius Metellus Postumianus
Tribune of the Plebs
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92389 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-24
Subject: Merry, happy ...
Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

I wish to all who celebrate it a merry/happy/joyous (you insert the
descriptive adjective) Christmas! To those who don't, I wish the very best
of the Holiday season, however you define it!

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92390 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-24
Subject: Re: [Nova_roma_] Merry, happy ...
Avete!

Merry Christmas to all those who celebrate it! Hope the fat guy in the red toga visits you all and leaves you mounds of post-Saturnalia gifts. And to our friends in the Sarmatian and nearby lands, may your New Year's Tree be soon heavily-laden with gifts as well!

Valete,
 
L VITELLIVS TRIARIVS


On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 10:52 PM, cmc <c.mariacaeca@...  
Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

I wish to all who celebrate it a merry/happy/joyous (you insert the
descriptive adjective) Christmas! To those who don't, I wish the very best
of the Holiday season, however you define it!

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92391 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-25
Subject: Re: [Nova_roma_] Merry, happy ...
Salute Saturnalia!
Hail Caesar!
Merry Christmas!

 
 


On Wednesday, December 25, 2013 2:24 PM, Lucius Vitellius <lvtriarius@...  
Avete!

Merry Christmas to all those who celebrate it! Hope the fat guy in the red toga visits you all and leaves you mounds of post-Saturnalia gifts. And to our friends in the Sarmatian and nearby lands, may your New Year's Tree be soon heavily-laden with gifts as well!

Valete,
 
L VITELLIVS TRIARIVS


On Tuesday, December 24, 2013 10:52 PM, cmc <c.mariacaeca@...  
Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

I wish to all who celebrate it a merry/happy/joyous (you insert the
descriptive adjective) Christmas! To those who don't, I wish the very best
of the Holiday season, however you define it!

Valete bene!
C. Maria Caeca





Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92392 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-25
Subject: Re: [Nova_roma_] Merry, happy ...
Salvete Omnes,

Merry Christmas/Dies Natalis Sol Invicti to all are who celebrating all over the world.   Especially to the Troops abroad who cannot be with their families at this time.

Enjoy the loot, great food, and  even better company during the Yuletide.

Valete bene,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92393 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-26
Subject: Voting Reminder
Avete Omnes,

There is about 24 hours left to vote.  Please take the time to cast your ballot.    If you need a voter code, please send an email to me and Q. Metellus and we will make sure you get it.

Respectfully,

Sulla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92394 From: Tiberius Cassius Atellus Date: 2013-12-27
Subject: De Nominibus Provinciarum
Salvete omnes,

Having reviewed the recent legislation reorganizing and renaming some provinces, I wonder: Will there be new magistrates appointed to those provinces whose boundaries have just been redefined? How will the matter be handled in general?

Curate bene.
Ti. Cassius Atellus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92395 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-27
Subject: Re: De Nominibus Provinciarum
Ave,

Elections are going on right now for new magistrates for next year.  They will be officially in office in Jan 5th.  Governors are a matter brought before the Senate in February.  I have already informed the incoming consuls about this so they have ample time to visit this subject matter once they are given Imperium by the Comitia Curiata.

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92396 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-27
Subject: Re: De Nominibus Provinciarum
Caninus Atello sal.

You can see how the Senate handles the appointments by looking at the results from the February 2766 meeting of the Senate at http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Nova-Roma/conversations/messages/90517

Basically the same process will be followed in February 2767 but the number of provinces and most the names of the provinces will change. Once the new consules are in office they should be asking for governors, including new governors to fill the new provinces. It is likely that most of the governors who were appointed last February will continue to serve in the coming year but there will be a lot of vacancies. So, everyone should read the requirements for governors and determine whether or not they or someone they know meets those requirements and would be willing to serve. Citizens who are interested can then contact the new consules when they issue their call for governors. I believe the consules and the Senate will be seeking citizens who are able to maintain contact with all of the other citizens in their province and citizens who can organize physical, face-to-face meetings in their province. 

The current requirements for provincial governors are:

3a. To be appointed Provincial Governor one must meet all of these requirements:
Must be at least 27 years old
Must be an Assiduus/Assidua (Tax Payer).
Must have been a citizen of Nova Roma for at least 2 years.
Must have previously held one or more of the following positions for at least six months: Tribune of the Plebs, Plebeian Aedile, Curule Aedile, Quaestor, or a Senator for 6 months. An applicant may substitute service in an apparitor position for at least one year for the previous requirements.
EXEMPTION: In the case of this position only, the senate may waive the previously held exemption if and only if no other candidate steps forward to serve as Governor/Provincial Praetor of a province.

as found in the lex Cornelia de cursu honorum   

Fac valeas! 

Marcus Pompeius Caninus
 
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92397 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-27
Subject: Vote closing
Avete Omnes,

In an hour and a half the vote for the Comitia Centuriata is closing.  Please cast your vote.  Unfortunately, I will be indisposed and will not be able to declare the closing.  I will have my cell phone with me at all times and will do my best to keep it charged.  

Respectfully,

Sulla
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92398 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: NR Pamphlet
Salvete Omnes,


Is this pamphlet still the approved Nova Roma publicity material? If so, I will begin distributing them within my province immediately. I would also add a link to a new provincia mailing list (with the appropriate approvals and disclaimers) to the pamphlet.

Is it possible to get (Northwest Florida Community) translated into latin from one of our esteem Latinist?

Valete Omnes,

L. Ulpius Atellus
Governor -  Provincia Georgia Florida
Tribunus Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92399 From: Belle Morte Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: NR Pamphlet
Salvete,

It's been a while since I have seen this myself.

Where did you find this?  In the Wiki?

Valete bene,
Aeternia 


Sent from my iPhone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92400 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: NR Pamphlet

Avete Omnes,


Yes, I just did a quick search on the wiki page before I attempted to build one from scratch. It was last updated in 2007.


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92401 From: Belle Morte Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: NR Pamphlet
Salvete,

This is now outdated it seems.  And we definitely need something a little different.   A couple alters here and there.

When do you want to start handing these pamphlets out?

Valete bene,
Aeternia 

Sent from my iPhone

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92402 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: NR Pamphlet

Salvete,


The sooner the better. What type of alterations are you thinking of?


Valete,


Atellus 

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92403 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: NR Pamphlet
Ave Atellus,

Here's some trifolds I did this past Fall, if you can get someone to approve it. These did not seem to be of any interest to anyone, so I shelved them. You are welcome to use them, modify them, whatever. I can send you the MS Publisher files, if you wish to edit them.


Vale,

L VITELLIVS TRIARIVS



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92404 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: NR Pamphlet

Ave Triarius,


That would be excellent if I could check it out and use them.


gratias tibi amice!


Vale,


L. Ulpius Atellus



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92405 From: Jiri Rys Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Edictum I - Appointment of Scribae
Ex hoc edicto, cives scribas meos una cum muneribus privilegiisque secundum omnes praescriptas leges Novae Romae designo:
- Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
- Sextus Lucilius Tutor
- Sextus Domitius Symmachus
scribae creatur. Nullum iusiurandum poscetur. Hoc edictum statim valet.

I hereby appoint the following citizens as my scribes, with all the obligations and privileges prescribed by the laws of Nova Roma:
- Gnaeus Cornelius Lentulus
- Sextus Lucilius Tutor
- Sextus Domitius Symmachus
are appointed scribes. No oath shall be required of them. This edict is effective immediately.

Given under my hand this a.d. V Kal. Ian. (28th of December 2013) in the consulship of L. Cornelius Sulla Felix (III) cos. sine collega.


Tiberius Iulius Nerva
Aedilis Plebis
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92406 From: iulius_sabinus Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: The Collegium Pontificum December session report.

SALVETE!

QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQUE SIT POPULO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS.

This is the Collegium Pontificum session report:

The Collegium Pontificum was called into session starting with 08.00 hr.(Rome time) on pr. Non. Dec 2766 a.U.c (Wednesday 04 December 2013) until 18.00 hr.(Rome time) on ad V Kal Ian 2766 a.U.c (Saturday, 28 December 2013).

The session schedule was:


Contio:

Starting with 08.00 hr.(Rome time) pr. Non. Dec 2766 a.U.c (Wednesday 04 December 2013) until 18.00 hr.(Rome time) on ad. XI Kal Ian 2766 a.U.c (Sunday 22 December 2013)

Vote:
Start on ad IX Kal Ian (Tuesday 24 December 2013) and ends at 18.00 hr.(Rome time) on ad V Kal Ian 2766 a.U.c (Saturday, 28 December 2013).


The following CP members participated in session:
- T. Iulius Sabinus (TIS).
- Q. Caecilius Metellus Pius Postumianus (QCMPP)
- Q. Fabius Maximus (QFM)
- Cn. Cornelius Lentulus (CnCL)
- C. Maria Caeca (CMC)

Proxy were not assigned during the contio.

The following CP member was absent:
- C. Petronius Dexter

The following CP member do not vote in sessions:
- M' Titinius Silvanus.

The results:

1. Decretum pontificum de scribis pontificiis.

Details:
TIS: Uti rogas.
QCMPP: De primo, "Decretum pontificum de scribis pontificiis", non satis mihi persuasum nomen "scriba pontificius" uerius mori maiorum nomine "pontifex minor".(recorded as NO)
QFM: Antiquo  If it ain't historical we can't do it.  The College should get a Quaestor, I suspect though Livy is silent about the matter, the College members who were magistrates likely used their supernumeries as secretary. 
CnCL: YES
CMC: Uti rogas.

ITEM I: PASS
--------------

2. Visum pontificum de comitiis curiatis.

Details:
TIS: Uti rogas.
QCMPP: De secundo, "Visum pontificum de comitiis curiatis", comitia omnia curiata -- certe, comitia omnia -- corrigenda. Non solum in ratione habendi, sed etiam in omne operandi modo Noua Roma errauit. Sint curiae nobis.(recorded as NO)
QFM: Uti Rogas.
CnCL: YES
CMC: Uti rogas.

ITEM II: PASS.
---------------

3. Decretum pontificum de camillis et de novis sacerdotibus instruendis.

Details:
TIS: Uti rogas. Indeed we need to make a distinction between a priest and a NR priest.
QCMPP: De tertio, "Decretum pontificum de camillis et de novis sacerdotibus
instruendis", nobis, ut institutum prudens fiat, plus aetatis addecernendum detur. Quod nobis praestat sub conlegii dignitatem sit. (recorded as NO)
QFM: Uti rogas.  We should make a written distinction between a priest and a NR.
CnCL: YES
CMC: Uti rogas.

ITEM III: PASS
---------------

4. Petition of Q. Iulius Nepos for Sodallis Colinus within Collegium Saliorum.

ITEM IV: POSTPONED
---------------------

5. Decretum pontificum de pontifice ab officiis.

Details:
TIS: Uti rogas. If something from the past doesn't work proper maybe is the time to reconsider.
QCMPP: De quinto, "Decretum pontificum de pontifice ab officiis", in hoc conlegio de 'pontificatui ab officiis' nullam necessitatem puto.(recorded as NO)
QFM: Antiquo.
CnCL: YES
CMC: Uti Rogas with reservations.

ITEM V: PASS.
--------------

6. Decretum pontificum de aeditumo colegii pontificum.

Details:
TIS: Antiquo. It doesn't cover all problems as item 5.
QCMPP: De sexto, "Decretum pontificum de aeditumo colegii pontificum", idem uelut de quinto scripsi.(recorded as NO)
QFM: Antiquo
CnCL: NO
CMC: Antiquo

ITEM VI: FAILED.
-----------------

7. Decretum Pontificum De Diebus.

Details:
TIS: Uti rogas.
QCMPP: De septimo, "Decretum pontificum de diebus", satis mihi uidetur responsum nostrum.(recorded as NO)
QFM: Uti Rogas.
CnCL: YES
CMC: Uti Rogas

ITEM VII: PASS.
----------------

8. Decretum Pontificum De Diebus - additional change.

Details:
TIS: Keep. The Senate needs all available time.
QCMPP: De octauo, addendum contra morem maiorum puto.(recorded as NO)
QFM: Uti Rogas.
CnCL: KEEP
CMC: Keep.

ITEM VIII: The change is not approved. (item 7 remains in the original form)
-------------------

QUOD BONUM FAUSTVM FELIX FORTUNATUMQUE SIT POPULO ROMANO QUIRITIBUS.

NOTE: Currently, it seems Yahoo don't allow very long messages. It was impossible to add the text of all items. For those interested I created the wiki page of that session. Anyone interested can find there the details of the items in full text:

VALETE,
Sabinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92407 From: Tiberius Cassius Atellus Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: De Nominibus Provinciarum
Atellus Sullae Consuli Caninoque S.P.D.

Thank you both for your the clarification and additional info.
I look forward to doing my part to make the opening chapter of my new province a great one.

On that note, I've been asking around and searching for some fellow-citizens here in Utah with whom to meet, but with no concrete results thus far. I found out there are several other registered cives in the state, but my inquiries have yielded no further information, so I'm throwing this out to the populace at large:
Can anyone give me the names of the other Nova Roman citizens in Utah?

Any names or additional info will be appreciated.

Valete optime.

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92408 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Edictum I - Revocation of AAe Edicts

EDICTUM I

a.d. IV Kal. Ian. 2766 a.u.c. (29th of December 2013)

Revocatio America Austrorientalis Edicta

I, Lucius Ulpius Atellus, Legatus Pro Praetor Georgia Florida, issue the following edictum to revoke any and all edicts from the now dismantled provincia America Austrorientalis.

1.     Whereas, America Austrorientalis (AAe) is reorganized into several new provinces and to avoid any possible legal confusions that may arise from previous edicts concerning former AAe territories under my jurisdictions. I hereby revoke all edicts concerning the governance of territories now held by the new Provincia Georgia Florida.

2.     Any citizen who held a position within the government of AAe may re-apply for said position under the new administration.

This edict is effective immediately.

Given under my hand this a.d. IV Kal. Ian. 2766 a.u.c. (29th of December 2013 CET) in the consulship of L. Cornelius Sulla Felix (III) cos. Sine college.

L. Ulpius Atellus

Legatus Pro Praetor Provincia Georgia Florida

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92409 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-28
Subject: Re: NR Pamphlet
Salvete,

Yes there are a t.couple things that need to be edited in that official pamplet.  It seems that Triarius has this well in hand.

But I'm going to definitely have the official pamplet worked on in the weeks to come.

Valete bene,
Aeternia



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92410 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Avete Omnes,

It is my sincere pleasure to post the results of the Comitia Centuriata.

Censor:  Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix Voted in by 35 Centuries.

Senior Consul:  Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia - Elected in the 1st round with 26 Centuries
Iunior Consul: Gaius Aemilius Crassus - Elected in the 2nd round with 33 Centuries.

Senior Praetor: Publius Annaeus Constantinus Placidus - Elected in the 1st round with 27 Centuries
Iunior Praetor: Marcus Pompeius Caninus - Elected in the 2nd round with 31 Centuries

The Lex Cornelia de Civitate Eiuranda - PASSED - 23 Centuries to 14 Centuries
The Proposed Constitutional Amendment - PASSED - 28 Centuries to 9 Centuries.

Congratulations to all incoming magistrates.

Long Live Nova Roma!

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92411 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata

Omnibus in foro S. P. D.

 

Congratulations to our new magistrates!  May you have a happy and productive year!

 

Valete Bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92412 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: De Nominibus Provinciarum
Ave,

Actually you would be governor of the former SE Provincia area, the agenda item was a spelling typo which has been fixed.  As Governor now of Florida and Georgia regions you have Imperium to seek the contact information of those who reside in your area of Imperium, which in this case is just those two states.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92413 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: De Nominibus Provinciarum

Ave,


Was that meant for me consul? I think might be replying to the wrong Atellus :)


Vale,

L. Ulpius Atellus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92414 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Edictum I - Revocation of AAe Edicts
Ave,

Technically, you didn't need to do this as Edicts automatically expire at the beginning of the new year when there is a new administration in place.  


Respectfully,

Sulla




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92415 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: De Nominibus Provinciarum
Ave,

Ah, so there are two Atellus's that might be my confusion.  I think I had him confused with you. :)  My error.

Respectfully,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92416 From: Richard Dix Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Edictum I - Revocation of AAe Edicts
Ave,

Just wanted to be on the safe side. But thank you for bring that lex to my attention.

Vale,

Atellus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92417 From: M. Pompeius Caninus Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Edictum I - Revocation of AAe Edicts
Caninus Atello sal.

Also, since there is no longer a provincia America Austrorientalis, revoking or repealing the edicta of that provincia should not be required. 

Fac valeas!
 
Marcus Pompeius Caninus
 
 


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92418 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Edictum I - Revocation of AAe Edicts

Salvete,


Pursuant to Lex Arminia de provincialibus


http://novaroma.org/nr/Lex_Arminia_de_ministris_provincialibus_(Nova_Roma)


Paragraph 2.  "Confirming lex Arminia de edictis, all provincial edicta are automatically revoked when there is a change of governor [1], and the new magistrate does not confirm them in his/her imperium."


I was simply NOT confirming the previous edicta under the last administration. To your point Caninus,  while you are right that it should not be required. The cives of my provincia may not realize that (myself included at the time) and I wanted no confusion on any future edicta I presented.


Valete Omnes,

Atellus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92419 From: Jiri Rys Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Congratulations to our new elected magistrates!

Tiberius Iulius Nerva
Aedilis Plebis
Prafectus Civitatis Boihaemi



Dne NedÄ›le, 29. Prosinec 2013 6:00 , Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...  
Avete Omnes,

It is my sincere pleasure to post the results of the Comitia Centuriata.

Censor:  Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix Voted in by 35 Centuries.

Senior Consul:  Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia - Elected in the 1st round with 26 Centuries
Iunior Consul: Gaius Aemilius Crassus - Elected in the 2nd round with 33 Centuries.

Senior Praetor: Publius Annaeus Constantinus Placidus - Elected in the 1st round with 27 Centuries
Iunior Praetor: Marcus Pompeius Caninus - Elected in the 2nd round with 31 Centuries

The Lex Cornelia de Civitate Eiuranda - PASSED - 23 Centuries to 14 Centuries
The Proposed Constitutional Amendment - PASSED - 28 Centuries to 9 Centuries.

Congratulations to all incoming magistrates.

Long Live Nova Roma!

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92420 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
TM.Quadra T.Nerva A.Plebis P.Boihaemi Salutem plurimam dici,
Vobis congratulor! Gratulor! Macte! - Congratulations & bravo!

Paenitet mea Latina est infans (1 to 3 y.o.) gradu; vero factus ego studio.
Sorry; my Latin is at infant level; but I am studying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG9T9FPxzLM&list=PLEE440D6A8DCBA478

Valete,
Tiberius Marcius Quadra


On Sunday, December 29, 2013 7:25 PM, Jiri Rys <jirirys@...  
Congratulations to our new elected magistrates!

Tiberius Iulius Nerva
Aedilis Plebis
Prafectus Civitatis Boihaemi



Dne Neděle, 29. Prosinec 2013 6:00 , Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
 
Avete Omnes,

It is my sincere pleasure to post the results of the Comitia Centuriata.

Censor:  Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix Voted in by 35 Centuries.

Senior Consul:  Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia - Elected in the 1st round with 26 Centuries
Iunior Consul: Gaius Aemilius Crassus - Elected in the 2nd round with 33 Centuries.

Senior Praetor: Publius Annaeus Constantinus Placidus - Elected in the 1st round with 27 Centuries
Iunior Praetor: Marcus Pompeius Caninus - Elected in the 2nd round with 31 Centuries

The Lex Cornelia de Civitate Eiuranda - PASSED - 23 Centuries to 14 Centuries
The Proposed Constitutional Amendment - PASSED - 28 Centuries to 9 Centuries.

Congratulations to all incoming magistrates.

Long Live Nova Roma!

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92421 From: Robin Marquardt Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
TM.Quadra T.Nerva A.Plebis P.Boihaemi Salutem plurimam dicit,
Vobis congratulor! Gratulor! Macte! - Congratulations & bravo!

Paenitet mea Latina est infans (1 to 3 y.o.) gradu; vero factus ego studio.
Sorry; my Latin is at infant level; but I am studying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG9T9FPxzLM&list=PLEE440D6A8DCBA478

Valete,
Tiberius Marcius Quadra
 
 


On Sunday, December 29, 2013 10:12 PM, Robin Marquardt <remarq777@...  
TM.Quadra T.Nerva A.Plebis P.Boihaemi Salutem plurimam dici,
Vobis congratulor! Gratulor! Macte! - Congratulations & bravo!

Paenitet mea Latina est infans (1 to 3 y.o.) gradu; vero factus ego studio.
Sorry; my Latin is at infant level; but I am studying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG9T9FPxzLM&list=PLEE440D6A8DCBA478

Valete,
Tiberius Marcius Quadra


On Sunday, December 29, 2013 7:25 PM, Jiri Rys <jirirys@...  
Congratulations to our new elected magistrates!

Tiberius Iulius Nerva
Aedilis Plebis
Prafectus Civitatis Boihaemi



Dne Neděle, 29. Prosinec 2013 6:00 , Robert Woolwine <robert.woolwine@...
 
Avete Omnes,

It is my sincere pleasure to post the results of the Comitia Centuriata.

Censor:  Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix Voted in by 35 Centuries.

Senior Consul:  Statia Cornelia Valeriana Juliana Aeternia - Elected in the 1st round with 26 Centuries
Iunior Consul: Gaius Aemilius Crassus - Elected in the 2nd round with 33 Centuries.

Senior Praetor: Publius Annaeus Constantinus Placidus - Elected in the 1st round with 27 Centuries
Iunior Praetor: Marcus Pompeius Caninus - Elected in the 2nd round with 31 Centuries

The Lex Cornelia de Civitate Eiuranda - PASSED - 23 Centuries to 14 Centuries
The Proposed Constitutional Amendment - PASSED - 28 Centuries to 9 Centuries.

Congratulations to all incoming magistrates.

Long Live Nova Roma!

Respectfully,

Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix
Consul of Nova Roma






Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92422 From: cmc Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Edictum I - Revocation of AAe Edicts

Salvete Atelli!

 

You know, since there are 2 Atelli, it might be less confusing for us if, when you post, you sign both you Nomina and cognomina.  That way, we’ll know who is writing what from where J.

 

Valete bene!

C. Maria Caeca

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92423 From: l_ulpius_atellus Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Edictum I - Revocation of AAe Edicts

Salvete,


Can do.


Valete,


Ulpius Atellus

Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92424 From: Timothy or Stephen Gallagher Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: [Explorator] explorator 16.36-37
FYI
 

From: rogueclassicist@...
To: Explorator@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2013 14:22:53 -0500
Subject: [Explorator] explorator 16.36-37

 
================================================================
explorator 16.36-37                            December 29, 2013
================================================================
Editor's note: Most urls should be active for at least eight
hours from the time of publication.

For your computer's protection, Explorator is sent in plain text
and NEVER has attachments (other than the odd youtube video).
Be suspicious of any Explorator which arrives otherwise!!!

n.b. It has come to my attention that several mail carriers are
now filtering mail with lots of links (like explorator) as spam.
You might want to add Explorator to your address book or whatever
to ensure it gets through.
================================================================
================================================================
Thanks to Arthur Shippee, Dave Sowdon, Edward Rockstein, Kurt Theis,
John McMahon, Barnea Selavan, Joseph Lauer, Mike Ruggeri,
Wilfried Zankl, A Landreau, Hernan Astudillo,  David Critchley,
Richard Campbell, Richard C. Griffiths,and Ross W. Sargent for
headses upses this  week (as always hoping I have left no one out).

n.b. The problem with dead links seems to be -- for the most part --
specific to yahoomail users (although some .edu addresses seem
also to be affected). If this doesn't apply to you, all I can
suggest is that you cut and paste the following link to read it
via yahoo's site:

http://www.yahoogroups.com/neo/groups/Explorator/conversations/topics

Apologies for no issue last week (wonky internet) and lateness
of today ... thanks for the messages of support and Happy New
Year to everyone!

================================================================
EARLY HOMINIDS
================================================================
Not sure why this was news, but Neanderthals buried their dead (some of these
spin the story as ‘caring for elders’):

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-12/nyu-nbt121213.php
http://phys.org/news/2013-12-neanderthals-dead.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131216154328.htm
http://feeds.sciencedaily.com/~r/sciencedaily/fossils_ruins/archaeology/~3/BqgQ8T-Tsw8/131216154328.htm
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/5328/20131217/neanderthals-buried-dead-researchers.htm
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2013/1216/Did-the-Neanderthals-bury-their-dead
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/17/science/neanderthals-and-the-dead.html
http://www.livescience.com/41982-neanderthals-buried-dead.html
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1113029615/neanderthals-buried-their-dead-121713/
http://www.scienceworldreport.com/articles/11633/20131217/ancient-neanderthals-buried-dead-modern-humans.htm
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/health-science/neanderthals-cared-for-elder-france-burial-site-shows/story-e6frg8y6-1226784733632
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/611537/?sc=c52
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/neanderthals-buried-their-dead-in-western-europe
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/12/131216-la-chapelle-neanderthal-burials-graves/


A possible 1.4 million years b.p. homo erectus hand bone find from Kenya:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-12/uom-do1121213.php
http://phys.org/news306428770.html
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131216154902.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-25398642
http://www.livescience.com/41986-human-hand-fossil-reveals-early-tool-use.html
http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/hand-fossil-turns-back-clock-on-complex-tool-use-1312161.htm
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/611700/?sc=c52
http://www.sci-news.com/othersciences/anthropology/science-homo-erectus-human-like-hand-bone-01620.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2308043/How-axe-gave-humans-hands-Researchers-weapons-key-evolution.html
http://news.yahoo.com/human-hand-fossil-turns-back-clock-500-000-201918358.html
http://research.missouri.edu/news/story.php?361
cf http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2013/12/12/1316014110.abstract?sid=ee072748-12f0-46ab-9d54-d6cce52833e5  (abstract)


Latest Neanderthal genome news focuses on inbreeding as well as other ‘lines’:

http://phys.org/news306593891.html
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-12/uoc--ngs121613.php
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131218133658.htm
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/19/science/toe-fossil-provides-complete-neanderthal-genome.html
https://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2013/12/18/neanderthal-genome-shows-evidence-of-early-human-interbreeding-inbreeding/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2525961/Neanderthal-DNA-dating-50-000-years-reveals-ancestors-highly-INBRED.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/12/131218-neanderthal-genome-incest-archaic-ancestor-science/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25423498 
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/dna-from-a-50000-year-old-toe-shows-neanderthals-were-highly-inbred-9014103.html
http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-neanderthal-interbreeding-20131218,0,3912625.story
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2013/1218/Neanderthal-genome-suggests-new-mysterious-human-lineage
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2013/1218/Neanderthal-genome-suggests-new-mysterious-human-lineage-video
http://www.livescience.com/42056-neanderthal-woman-genome-sequenced.html
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/5365/20131219/neanderthal-genome-reveals-incest-interbreeding-and-mystery.htm
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/interbreeding-inbreeding-early-populations

… although there is mention of sunlight adaptation genes as well:

http://phys.org/news/2013-12-sunlight-region-neanderthal-genome-percent.html
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-12/mbae-sar121613.php
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131218100229.htm

… and the genetics behind high diabetes risk in certain modern populations is traced back
to Neanderthals:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25506198
http://www.natureworldnews.com/articles/5423/20131226/gene-variant-explain-higher-diabetes-risk-mexicans-latin-americans.htm
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/25/researchers-high-diabetes-risk-in-latin-america-could-be-traced-back-centuries/
http://www.upi.com/blog/2013/12/26/Latin-Americans-inherited-diabetes-gene-risk-from-Neanderthals/6311388069585/

Hyoid bone analysis suggests Neanderthals could speak:

http://phys.org/news306681576.html
http://news.discovery.com/human/evolution/neanderthals-could-talk-like-humans-bone-reveals-131223.htm
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25465102
http://www.upi.com/Science_News/Blog/2013/12/20/Neanderthals-may-have-been-chatterboxes/8331387566478/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2528311/Did-Neanderthals-speak-like-US-Horseshoe-shed-neck-bone-suggests-ancestors-used-complex-speech.html

cf http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0082261

A homo erectus ochre handprint from Austria:

http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/ochre-hand-imprint-homo-erectus-revealed

Science folks have formally identified what separates modern humans from others:

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2013/dec/18/scientists-list-genes-make-us-human-neanderthals

More on the Denisovans:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25423498
================================================================
AFRICA
================================================================
China and Kenya are examining ancient trade links (still):

http://www.kbc.co.ke/kenya-china-partner-in-excavation-works/

Mummies from the Sudan:

http://www.livescience.com/42017-medieval-crypt-holds-7-male-mummies.html
http://news.discovery.com/history/ancient-egypt/medieval-crypt-holds-seven-male-mummies-131218.htm
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/12/18/magical-medieval-crypt-holds-7-male-mummies/
http://news.yahoo.com/inscriptions-everywhere-magical-medieval-crypt-holds-7-male-124226280.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2527014/The-ancient-crypt-protected-MAGIC-900-year-old-tomb-covered-mysterious-inscriptions-protect-bodies-against-evil.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
\
Suggestion that first Christian manuscript art may have come from Ethiopia:

http://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/Research-uncovers-lost-African-school-of-painting/31139

Trying to save artifacts in Mali:

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history-archaeology/The-Race-to-Save-Malis-Priceless-Artifacts-236271361.html

A bust in Tunisia:

http://www.businessnews.com.tn/arrestation-de-9-tunisiens-en-possession-de-pieces-archeologiques-dune-valeur-de-500-mille-dinars,520,42944,3  (French)
http://directinfo.webmanagercenter.com/2013/12/17/tunisie-arrestation-de-neuf-personnes-en-possession-de-monnaie-ancienne/  (French)

Protecting sites in Algeria’s Tassili N’Ajjer Region

http://www.elwatan.com/culture/illizi-protection-de-sites-archeologiques-15-12-2013-238573_113.php  (French)
================================================================
ANCIENT NEAR EAST AND EGYPT
================================================================
Recent finds from Hermonthis:

http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/statues-discovered-at-ancient-hermonthis-in-egypt

Spider (?) rock art from the Kharga Oasis is raising discussions:

http://www.livescience.com/42126-spider-rock-art-discovered-in-egypt.html
http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/ancient-spider-rock-art-sparks-archaeological-mystery-131222.htm#mkcpgn=rssnws1
http://www.nbcnews.com/science/hand-drawn-spiders-egypt-cave-art-poses-web-riddles-2D11792106
 
An unidentified New Kingdom royal head from Luxor:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/9/40/90118/Heritage/Ancient-Egypt/An-unidentified-royal-head-found-in-Luxor.aspx

The fallout from that ‘paint scraping’ in the Great Pyramid continues:

http://www.egyptindependent.com//news/antiquities-minister-denies-german-team-offer-reconciliation-over-stolen-cheops-cartouche


There’s a state of emergency at Egyptian archaeological sites:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/9/40/90121/Heritage/Ancient-Egypt/Security-to-be-tightened-at-Egypts-archaeological-.aspx

… this seems to be related:

http://www.sis.gov.eg/En/Templates/Articles/tmpArticleNews.aspx?ArtID=74959

Concerns for the St Mina cemetery:

http://www.egyptindependent.com//news/st-mina-cemetery-sinking-under-groundwater

Egypt was trying to halt an antiquities sale in the US:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/9/40/89383/Heritage/Ancient-Egypt/Egyptian-antiquities-ministry-tries-to-stop-sale-o.aspx

… but did receive five items from France:

http://www.egyptindependent.com/news/ministry-antiquities-receives-five-artifacts-repatriated-france
http://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/French-government-returns-Egyptian-antiquities-looted-after-Arab-Spring/31388


Those Islamic beams in Denmark that were in the news a year or so ago have been returned to Egypt:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/News/89526.aspx

They’re fixing up the Mallawi Museum:

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/9/44/89276/Heritage/Museums/Upper-Egypts-Malawi-Museum-is-under-restoration.aspx

… while Italy is coming to the aid of the Greco-Roman Museum in Alexandria:

http://www.theartnewspaper.com/articles/Italy-comes-to-the-aid-of-Alexandria/31090

A theory on how the pyramids were built is making the rounds again:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-25412540
http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/10887701.Newport_engineer_s_theory_on_how_pyramids_were_built/ 

Feature on the Shuni Fortress site:

http://www.sdjewishworld.com/2013/12/27/archaeology-art-history-await-at-shuni-fortress/

Questioning Masada:

http://www.algemeiner.com/2013/12/27/arab-media-outlet-says-masada-was-a-jewish-myth/
http://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium-1.563888
http://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium-1.559185
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4462171,00.html

On fashion in ancient Israel:

http://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium-1.565513

On Solomon’s silver sources:

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/archaeology-today/biblical-archaeology-topics/tarshish-hacksilber-hoards-pinpoint-solomons-silver-source/
http://intarch.ac.uk/journal/issue35/thompson_index.html
http://opencontext.org/projects/CF179695-1E6A-440F-1DDB-4FEA7B02A5B5

Latest issues on Temple Mount:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/175501
http://jewishvoiceny.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=6144

cf:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/Flash.aspx/283344#.UsAxpCeOemM

… while recent snows there have caused problems at the sifting site:

http://templemount.wordpress.com/2013/12/16/major-damage-to-the-sifting-site-from-the-snow-storm/

Feature on prehistoric activities in Jordan’s Black Desert:

http://asorblog.org/?p=6378

… and the Azraq Community Archaeology Project:

http://asorblog.org/?p=6333

UNESCO is concerned for Syria’s antiquities and sites:

http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/9527796/UNESCO-sounds-alarm-about-illicit-Syria-archaeology-digs
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/16/us-syria-crisis-un-archeology-idUSBRE9BF13320131216
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25407119

OpEd on saving Syria’s antiquities:

http://www.troyrecord.com/opinion/20131216/column-why-should-we-care-about-saving-syrias-antiquities

Interest in King Hekatomnos’ tomb:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/kings-tomb-becoming-center-of-attraction-in-western-turkey.aspx?pageID=238&nid=59653&NewsCatID=375

After reflecting on the Oded Golan trial:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/25/burial-box-earliest-reference-jesus

… it seems some folks are trying to keep the James Ossuary claims alive:

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/12/27/decade-long-debate-continues-over-authenticity-of-ancient-box-naming-james-as-the-brother-of-jesus/

In case you need a Noah’s Ark fix:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2524056/Noahs-Ark-coracle-reeds-bitumen-reveals-Babylonian-text.html

The annual (it seems) concern for the survival of Aramaic:

http://english.alarabiya.net/en/life-style/art-and-culture/2013/12/25/Will-Middle-East-s-Aramaic-language-survive-.html

Feature on Lawrence of Arabia’s archaeological side:

http://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/archaeology-today/archaeologists-biblical-scholars-works/lawrence-of-arabia-as-archaeologist/


Review of Bob Brier, *Egyptomania*:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/books/egyptomania-by-bob-brier-tells-of-the-mummys-lure.html?hpw&rref=books&_r=0

Review of Lapin, *Rabbis as Romans*:

http://blogs.yu.edu/cjl/2013/12/17/review-of-lapin-_rabbis-as-romans-the-rabbinic-movement-in-palestine-100-400-ce_/
================================================================
ANCIENT GREECE AND ROME (AND CLASSICS)
================================================================

Bronze Age cosmetics ‘factory’ from Limassol:

http://incyprus.philenews.com/en-gb/local-features/4409/38800/ancient-cosmetics-revealed

A Roman burial from El Asnam (Algeria):

http://www.depechedekabylie.com/evenement/132263-decouverte-dune-tombe-romaine-au-douar-el-asnam.html  (French)

A Roman kiln (and other items) from Rainham:

http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/roman_artefacts_discovered_at_rainham_housing_site_1_3143362

A Temple to the Thracian mother goddess from Zlatograd:

http://www.focus-fen.net/index.php?id=n322392

Remains of a pre-Roman settlement in Florence:

http://www.sotterraneidiroma.it/notizie-sdr/item/scavi-archeologici-sotto-palazzo-medici-resti-della-citta-pre-romana?category_id=20  (Italian)
http://www.lanazione.it/firenze/cultura/2013/12/23/1000960-palazzo-medici-resti-scavi.shtml   (Italian)
http://www.gonews.it/2013/sotto-palazzo-medici-riccardi-la-storia-della-citta-negli-scavi-scoperta-una-deviazione-del-mugnone-a-opera-dei-romani/#.UrrHvrQyHZk  (Italian)
http://www.unonotizie.it/21206-scoperte-archeologiche-a-firenze-importanti-ritrovamenti-archeologici-palazzo-medici-riccardi-sede-provincia-firenze.php  (Italian)
http://met.provincia.fi.it/news.aspx?n=162499  (Italian)


Latest from Oriens’ coffin:

http://www.hinckleytimes.net/news/local-news/oriens-coffin-find-unravel-riddles-6442134

The Vatican is opening an early Christian cemetery to the public:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25421841

Roman finds from the Stella river:

http://www.meteoweb.eu/2013/12/archeologia-ritrovato-un-tesoro-di-reperti-romani-nei-fondali-del-fiume-stella/246820/  (Italian)

Early results of a Roman skull examination:

http://www.teesdalemercury.co.uk/Articles/2013/teesdale-history-team-uncovers-mysteries-of-a-roman-skull

A Messapian baby bottle:

http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/pig-shaped-bottle-and-other-finds-from-ancient-grave-131213.htm

Nice feature on technology being used to read Herculaneum papyri:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-25106956

Interesting theory on the Ara Pacis’ alignment:

http://gizmodo.com/archaeologist-uses-2-000-year-old-sky-to-study-roman-ru-1486717120
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/significance-of-sun-alignment-with-two-roman-monuments
http://news.indiana.edu/releases/iu/2013/12/augustus-virtual-reality-project.shtml
https://www.idsnews.com/news/story.aspx?id=95450

They’re opening some archaeological diving parks in Greece:

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/12/15/greece-to-open-archaeological-diving-parks/

Antandros is looking for some sort of sponsor:

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/the-ancient-city-where-paris-gave-aphrodite-the-apple-in-greek-mythology-seeks-sponsor.aspx?pageID=238&nID=60240&NewsCatID=375

The Riace Bronzes are apparently on display again:

http://www.lagazzettadelmezzogiorno.it/notizia.php?IDNotizia=680297&IDCategoria=2694
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25468964

They’ve almost completed the restoration of S. Maria Antiqua:

http://www.wantedinrome.com/news/2002808/fifth-century-church-in-roman-forum-to-reopen-to-public.html

I think we’ve mentioned the restoration work on the Colosseum has started:

http://www.cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_12084.shtml
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/restoration-work-begins-on-romes-aging-colosseum/

A head from Austria has been reunited with its body in Naples:

http://corrieredelmezzogiorno.corriere.it/napoli/notizie/arte_e_cultura/2013/19-dicembre-2013/era-una-collezione-austriaca-sfingedel-dio-nilo-torna-napoli-suo-enigma-2223821399208.shtml  (Italian)
http://www.lastampa.it/2013/12/18/cultura/arte/napoli-mette-la-testa-a-posto-LwF974mkaX1e68qhCjemVN/pagina.html  (Italian)
http://www.agenparl.it/articoli/news/cultura/20131216-beni-culturali-domani-a-napoli-conferenza-recupero-testa-di-sfinge-della-statua-del-nilo   (Italian)

Concerns (and reassurances) at Ostia:

http://www.sotterraneidiroma.it/notizie-sdr/item/barbera-nel-sito-di-ostia-antica-nessun-rischio-crollo?category_id=20  (Italian)
http://www.liberoquotidiano.it/news/1372647/Archeologia-Barbera-nel-sito-di-Ostia-Antica-nessun-rischio-crollo.html  (Italian)
http://www.sotterraneidiroma.it/notizie-sdr/item/ostia-antica-mosaici-abbandonati-tra-i-rifiuti?category_id=20  (Italian)

… but there was another collapse at Pompeii (we may have mentioned this one):

http://www.sotterraneidiroma.it/notizie-sdr/item/pompei-ancora-un-crollo-negli-scavi-archelogici?category_id=20  (Italian)

Messene is getting heritage status:

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/12/19/greeces-ancient-messene-to-be-nominated-to-unescos-world-heritage-list/

A Roman quiz to keep you sharp:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/10535629/Terry-Dearys-Dangerous-Days-in-the-Roman-Empire-Quiz.html

What William V Harris is up to:

http://news.columbia.edu/research/3296
http://phys.org/news/2013-12-professor-probes-mental-disorders-ancient.html
http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/12/19/ancient-greece-and-mental-disorders/

What Guy Maclean Rogers is up to:

http://www.business-standard.com/article/news-ani/lessons-that-modern-leaders-can-learn-from-alexander-the-great-revealed-113122900209_1.html

Digital Classics at Stanford:

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2013/december/digital-age-classics-121313.html

Of course there where some pieces on Saturnalia/origins of Christmas with a Classical spin … some good:

http://phys.org/news/2013-12-roman-christmases-similar.html
http://www.reading.ac.uk/news-and-events/releases/PR556505.aspx
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/23/ancient-rome-saturnalia-festive-presents

… some not so much:

http://greece.greekreporter.com/2013/12/22/the-roots-of-christmas-in-ancient-greece/

On teaching the Odyssey at San Quentin:

http://www.salon.com/2013/12/21/teaching_the_odyssey_at_san_quentin/

More on Roman lead being used for scientific research:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=ancient-roman-lead-physics-archaeology-controversy
http://www.livescience.com/42196-physicists-and-archaeologists-tussle-over-long-lost-lead.html

Review of Mary Beard, *Confronting the Classics*:

http://www.csmonitor.com/Books/Book-Reviews/2013/1224/Confronting-the-Classics

-----
Latest reviews from BMCR:

http://bmcr.brynmawr.edu/recent.html

Visit our blog:

http://rogueclassicism.com/
================================================================
EUROPE AND THE UK (+ Ireland)
================================================================
Neolithic finds from Damerham:

http://www.culture24.org.uk/history-and-heritage/archaeology/megaliths-and-prehistoric-archaeology/art461786


Very interesting feature on that burial near Stonehenge:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/before-stonehenge--did-this-man-lord-it-over-wiltshires-sacred-landscape-9008683.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2525035/New-27million-Stonehenge-visitor-centre-opens-reconstruction-Neolithic-man.html

… in conjunction, of course, with the opening of the vistors centre:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-25402980
http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=11&int_new=66930
http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2013/dec/17/stonehenge-visitor-centre-opens-english-heritage
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/art/architecture/10521502/Stonehenge-Welcoming-a-new-dawn.html

… and the Druids aren’t happy:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/archaeology/druids-take-up-arms-over-display-of-bones-at-stonehenge-9018970.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-25432731
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/stonehenge-two-tribes-go-to-war--over-bones-9005425.html

… and here’s a nice ‘catching up’ piece with everything Stonehengical from the past year:

http://www.culture24.org.uk/history-and-heritage/archaeology/megaliths-and-prehistoric-archaeology/art462397

… and other assorted Stonehenge stuff:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/howaboutthat/10523016/Why-was-Stonehenge-built-The-eight-most-popular-theories.html
http://www.westerndailypress.co.uk/Stonehenge-Enigma-world-s-prehistoric-maps/story-20337009-detail/story.html
http://www.sourcewire.com/news/81018/the-world-s-first-detailed-prehistoric-maps-of-britain


Recent storms in Scotland might reveal some sites:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-25415577

Digging up the home of Charles I’s surgeon:

http://www.culture24.org.uk/history-and-heritage/archaeology/art461685

Human remains (etc.) from a Harlech Castle dig:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-north-west-wales-25349244

Digging in Yorkshire Dales National Park:

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/10902132.Volunteer_archaeologists_to_help_tackle___76k_excavation_project/?ref=rss

Some medieval strongholds from Poland:

http://www.naukawpolsce.pap.pl/en/news/news,398508,new-information-on-early-medieval-strongholds-in-central-poland.html
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/early-medieval-strongholds-in-central-poland

… and some medieval cremation mounds:

http://www.naukawpolsce.pap.pl/en/news/news,398423,early-medieval-finds-in-the-lublin-region.html

Remains -- in a well -- of a massacre in France some 1000 years b.p.:

http://www.inrap.fr/archeologie-preventive/Actualites/Communiques-de-presse/p-17318-Au-fond-du-puits-mysterieuse-decouverte-a-Entrains-sur-Nohain.htm
http://www.lemonde.fr/sciences/article/2013/12/17/le-mystere-du-puits-d-entrain-sur-nohain_4335245_1650684.html  (French)

Overview of Armenian finds this year:

http://armenpress.am/eng/news/745086/summing-up-armenias-archeological-finds-for-2013.html

Some shipwrecks in Venice’s lagoon:

http://www.venezia.net/13/12/2013/archeologia-navale-i-relitti-nelle-acque-della-laguna.html

Traces of a 1000 years b.p. vineyard in the Basque country:

http://news.discovery.com/history/archaeology/thousand-year-old-vineyard-found-in-spain-121228.htm
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/vintage-1-000-old-vineyards-discovered-spain-190623281.html
http://www.basqueresearch.com/berria_irakurri.asp?Berri_Kod=4857&hizk=I
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-12/ef-tvd122313.php
http://feeds.sciencedaily.com/~r/sciencedaily/fossils_ruins/archaeology/~3/j7piP6BMAPc/131223131040.htm
http://phys.org/news307026856.html

600 years b.p. mikvehs from Portugal:

http://www.jta.org/2013/12/27/news-opinion/world/portuguese-plumbers-discover-ancient-mikvahs
http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Portuguese-plumbers-discover-ancient-mikvas-336353
http://forward.com/articles/189972/portugal-plumbers-uncover--year-old-mikvah-comp/

I think we mentioned this ship graffiti in a medieval church thing before:

http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/signs-sailors-ship-graffiti-medieval-churches

Feature on Sweyn Forkbeard:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-25341754

The British Museum acquired the Lacock Cup:

http://www.theguardian.com/culture/2013/dec/23/british-museum-acquires-lacock-cup

Semi touristy thing on Jewish remains in Spain:

http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-Features/Routes-of-Spain-Rediscovering-a-lost-Jewish-kingdom-335371
 
A nice gold ring find from Newcastle by a metal detectorist:

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Gold-treasure-brambles-Newcastle-metal-detector/story-20330071-detail/story.html


Not sure the concept of an ‘archaeologist of the year’ is tasteful:

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Richard-III-Leader-bones-dig-nominated/story-20372861-detail/story.html
-----
Archaeology in Europe Blog:

http://archaeology-in-europe.blogspot.com/

================================================================
ASIA AND THE SOUTH PACIFIC
================================================================
The big news this week (especially for the internet it seems) is that the origins
of cat domestication have been traced to China:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/12/131216154858.htm
http://phys.org/news/2013-12-cat-domestication-chinese-farmers-years.html
http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2013-12/wuis-cdt121213.php
http://news.discovery.com/animals/pets/cat-domestication-traced-to-early-chinese-farms-131216.htm
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-brief/2013/12/16/cats-became-pets-much-earlier-than-thought-according-to-neolithic-fossils/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2524791/One-man-cat-Chinese-farmers-domesticated-felines-kill-rodents-5-300-years-ago.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2013/1216/Study-finds-evidence-of-domesticated-Chinese-cats-5-300-years-ago
http://www.upi.com/Science_News/2013/12/16/Study-Chinese-farmers-began-domesticating-cats-5300-years-ago/UPI-80421387243310/
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/cats-living-alongside-chinese-farmers-5300-years-ago

6000 years b.p. burials from northeast Vietnam:

http://www.thanhniennews.com/index/pages/20131220-6,000-year-old-tombs-unearthed-in-northeast-vietnam.aspx


Possible remains of Ketevan on Goa:

http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/search-relics-martyr-queen-ketevan
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/ancient-bone-relic-in-goa-church-might-be-of-queen-ketevan-of-georgia/article5490392.ece
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/search-relics-martyr-queen-ketevan

Suggestion that Qin’s soldiers had stone armour (!):

http://www.newkerala.com/news/story/103414/qin-dynastys-soldiers-had-sophisticated-stone-armor-for-protection.html
http://in.news.yahoo.com/qin-dynasty-39-soldiers-had-39-sophisticated-39-093527483.html
http://english.cntv.cn/program/cultureexpress/20131217/101923.shtml
http://www.china.org.cn/video/2013-12/17/content_30919845.htm

Some interesting Chinese medical texts:

http://www.china.org.cn/arts/2013-12/19/content_30942767.htm
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90882/8489263.html
http://www.shanghaidaily.com/article/article_xinhua.aspx?id=188348

I think we mentioned this 1400 years b.p. warrior in armour from Kanai Higashiura:

http://io9.com/5968201/archaeologists-at-pompeii-of-japan-site-find-a-1400-year+old-warrior-still-wearing-his-armour
http://japandailypress.com/first-bone-scales-found-in-japan-inside-suit-of-armor-2441417/
http://mainichi.jp/english/english/newsselect/news/20131223p2a00m0na005000c.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2250023/Pompeii-Japan-Scientists-unearth-body-6th-century-Japanese-warrior-buried-molten-ash.html

Hopes to reunite some Cambodian statuary:

http://phys.org/news/2013-12-momentum-gains-ancient-cambodian-statues.html

… while another disputed statue that was in the news a while ago is being returned:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/13/arts/design/disputed-statue-to-be-returned-to-cambodia.html?ref=design
http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=11&int_new=66918

Evidence of a tsunami hitting hawaii caused by an Alaskan earthquake:

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/20131226/hawaii-sinkhole-yields-evidence-giant-tsunami-alaska

Binary math in Polynesia?:

http://www.livescience.com/41985-binary-math-invented-before-leibniz.html

Feature on Nan Madol:

http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/nan-madol-the-coral-reef-city

Studying the collapse of the Indus Civilization:

http://asia.nikkei.com/magazine/20131219-Power-play/Culture/Japanese-researchers-help-unravel-mystery-of-the-Indus-civilization
http://www.pasthorizonspr.com/index.php/archives/12/2013/disease-and-trauma-within-collapsing-indus-civilisation

cf: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0084814  (full text)

Plans to restore (to some extent) the citadel at Bam:

http://www.artdaily.org/index.asp?int_sec=11&int_new=67100
http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/international/iran-citadel-restored-after-quake-will-never-regain-past-glory/

Some Buddha relics were stolen from a Cambodian shrine:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/12/15/buddha-relics-including-hair-teeth-and-bones-stolen-from-cambodian-shrine/

More on evidence of ancient tsunamis from an Indonesian cave:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/indonesia-cave-reveals-history-of-ancient-tsunamis/2013/12/24/42484ba8-6c67-11e3-a5d0-6f31cd74f760_story.html
http://news.discovery.com/earth/rocks-fossils/tsunami-record-discovered-in-indonesia-cave-131213.htm
http://phys.org/news/2013-12-stunning-tsunami-indonesia-cave.html
 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25269698

More on evidence of pre-Cook Europeans in NZ and Australia:

http://www.news.com.au/technology/science/shipwreck-timbers-add-to-mounting-evidence-that-explorers-visited-new-zealand-australia-much-earlier-than-generally-accepted/story-fnjwl1aw-1226788010037
-----
East Asian Archaeology:

http://eastasiablog.wordpress.com/

Southeast Asian Archaeology Newsblog:

http://www.southeastasianarchaeology.com/

New Zealand Archaeology eNews:

http://www.nzarchaeology.org/netsubnews.htm
===============================================================

(Message over 64 KB, truncated)
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92425 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-29
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Omnibus in foro S.P.D.

I'm still in awe of these results myself to be honest.  Indeed Fortuna smiles upon us with her favor.  

A big big big and infinitely big thank you to all those who voted not just for myself but also Crassus as well.  

I extend congratulations to all the newly elected Magistrates, may your terms be productive, prosperous, and peaceful.

There have been so many supporters across the world too numerous to name but know that I thank each of you.

A thank you goes out to our Electoral Officers and to all who were involved in making this Election happen.

The role of Consul is a big role to fill and our predecessor is one tough act to follow.  Thank you L. Cornelius Sulla Felix for your service and may your term as Censor be forever productive in the upcoming days.

But know this citizens of Nova Roma, that my soon to be colleague and myself will do what we can to make Nova Roma a brighter and richer place.

And lastly but not forgotten.  A BIG and HEARTY congratulations to my personal hero C. Aemilius Crassus for his win.

As always I am in service to Nova Roma and her future.

Thank you citizens as always I left humbled.

Valete bene,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92426 From: Cn. Cornelius Lentulus Date: 2013-12-30
Subject: LUSTRUM of the CENSUS 2766 AUC
Cn. Cornelius Lentulus pontifex, quaestor consularis, in nomine censorum Ti. Galeri Paulini et Cn. Iuli Caesaris consulibus, praetoribus, tribunis plebis, collegio pontificum senatui populoque Novo Romano, Quiritibus s. p. d.

[Cn. Cornelius Lentulus pontifex, consular quaestor, salutes the consuls, the praetors, the tribunes of the plebs, the college of the pontiffs, the senate and people of Nova Roma, the Quirites in the name of the censors Ti. Galerius Paulinus and Cn. Iulius Caesar]


Fellow citizens!

It is a great honor, an utmost joy and a privilege to announce you the good news: in the name of, and upon the request of the censores Ti. Galerius Paulinus and Cn. Iulius Caesar, communicated to me by Cn. Caesar censor, I have, with the assistance of T. Popillia Laenas, conducted and performed the most sacred 15th Anniversary LUSTRUM of Nova Roma in place of the censores, the periodic purification of Nova Roma required at the end of each census. In the name of the censores who have closed the census and in their place I have purified Nova Roma to be cleansed and renewed, clear and sacred, a pleasure in the eyes of the gods, so that we can start anew after this 15th Anniversary Celebration Year.

Now all what Nova Roma is asking from you, citizens, is that you purify your own homes, offer some incense to the gods, and ask them to help you to continue your Roman lives with a clean and fresh start, all mistakes and impurities removed, and with new strength and honor. Pray in your homes for this gift from the gods immortal, and the census will be completed not only in our citizen rolls and in our databases, not only in the fires of my lustrum altar that have been burning today, but in the hearts of the Nova Romans, in the heart of our commonwealth.

With this ceremony, the 15th Anniversary Sacred Year festivities and rituals are coming to an end. Tomorrow our Sacred 15th Year will be closed with the last day of the year. We are now clear and we can start a new campaign for the restoration of the Roman people and Roman traditions, for the revival of the Roman res publica.

Nova Roma is purified by the lustrum.

We have completed the census, we have completed 15 years and more.

We are seeing now into the future... What we see? What you see? Anything it is, you must do for it to make it a reality. Work, fight and sacrifice for Nova Roma, and it will become a reality. This is your mission, until the next lustrum.

And now, you can see the text and description of the lustrum which took place at this afternoon in my home, with the valuable and experienced assistance of T. Popillia Laenas:


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
LUSTRUM MMDCCLXVI - THE PURIFICATION OF NOVA ROMA
 
 
1. OPENING OF THE LUSTRUM
 
The lustrum begins with the salutation of the altar with adoratio, the celebrant Cn. Lentulus pontifex and quaestor having covered his head with the back of his pontifical toga. 

First, he requests the gods to accept him as a substitution and as a representative of the censores Ti. Paulinus and Cn. Caesar:

"Di immortales,  
vos censores et ego precamur,  
uti me Cn. Cornelium Lentulum pontificem et quaestorem lustrum facientem  
pro se ipsis censoribus Ti. Galerio Paulino et Cn. Iulio Caesare lustrum facientibus accipiatis!  
Huius rei ergo macte hoc ture estote fitote volentes propitii censoribus Ti. Galerio Paulino et Cn. Iulio Caesare,  
rei publicae Novae Romanae,  
mihi, domo, familiae."

"Gods Immortal,
the censores and I ask you
that you accept mes Cn. Cornelius Lentulus pontifex and quaestor, as the performer of the lustrum,
in place of the censores themselves, Ti. Galerius Paulinus and Cn. Iulius Caesar.
For the sake of this be you blessed benevolent and propitious by this incense
to the censores Ti. Galerius Paulinus and Cn. Iulius Caesar,
to the Nova Roman Republic,
to me, to my household and to my family."
 
[Incense is sacrificed]

Cn. Lentulus opens the lustrum for the censores with the exclamation:
 
"Favete linguis!"
 
"Whatch over your tongues."
 

2. SACRED PURIFICATIVE CIRCUITION
 
The celebrant Cn. Lentulus pronounces aloud the following call from the censors addressing the assistant T. Popillia Laenas, who is addressed as Manius, interestingly, a sacred tradition, a name on which all assistants are addressed during this ceremony:
 
"Cum divis volentibus
quodque bene eveniat,
censor mandat tibi, Mani,
uti illace
liba velut suovitaurilia 
hoc signum, Novam Romam, populum Novum Romanum Quirites,
remque publicam populi Novi Romani Quiritium 
quota ex parte sive circumagi sive circumferenda censeas,
uti cures lustrare."
 
"That with the good help of the gods
success may crown our work,
the Censor bids you, Manius,
to take care to purify
this symbol, Nova Roma, the Nova Roman people of Quirites,
and the republic of the Nova Roman people of Quirites
with these sacrificial cakes as a suovetaurilia,
in whatever part you think best for them to be driven or carried around."
 
[T. Popillia Laenas takes the pieces the sacrificial cakes symbolizing the pig, the sheep and the bull, and carries them around the the symbols and consecrated flag of Nova Roma, walking around it clockwise direction, three times.]
 
 
3. PRAEFATIO

When the circuition has ended, the celebrant pontifex Lentulus starts the following preface prayers, begging the blessing of the main gods of Nova Roma into the lustrum, invoking their presence and their allowance of the ceremony.

"Iane,
te hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitius
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
mihi, domo, familiae!"
 
"Ianus,
by offering this incense to you,
I pray good prayers so
that you may be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to me, to my household and to my family."
 
[Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.]

"Iuppiter Optime Maxime,
te hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitius
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
mihi, domo, familiae!"
 
"Iuppiter, the Best and Greatest,
by offering this incense to you,
I pray good prayers so
that you may be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to me, to my household and to my family."

[Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.]

"Mars,
te hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitius
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
mihi, domo, familiae!"
 
"Mars,
by offering this incense to you,
I pray good prayers so
that you may be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to me, to my household and to my family."

[Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.]

"Quirine,
te hoc ture commovendo
bonas preces precor,
uti sies volens propitius
Populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
mihi, domo, familiae!"
 
"Quirinus,
by offering this incense to you,
I pray good prayers so
that you may be benevolent and propitious
to the Nova Roman People of Quirites,
to me, to my household and to my family."

[Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.]

"Iane,
uti te ture commovendo
bonas preces precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio esto!"
 
"Ianus,
as by offering you the incense
I have prayed good prayers,
for the very same reason
be thou blessed by this sacrificial wine."

[Libation of wine is made.]

"Iuppiter Optime Maxime,
uti te ture commovendo
bonas preces precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio esto!"
 
"Iuppiter, the Best and Greatest,
as by offering you the incense
I have prayed good prayers,
for the very same reason
be thou blessed by this sacrificial wine."

[Libation of wine is made.]

"Mars,
uti te ture commovendo
bonas preces precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio esto!"

"Mars,
as by offering you the incense
I have prayed good prayers,
for the very same reason
be thou blessed by this sacrificial wine."

[Libation of wine is made.]

"Quirine,
uti te ture commovendo
bonas preces precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte vino inferio esto!"
 
"Quirinus,
as by offering you the incense
I have prayed good prayers,
for the very same reason
be thou blessed by this sacrificial wine."

[Libation of wine is made.]

4. PRECATIO LUSTRI
 
After the preface prayers, the celebrant Cn. Lentulus recites the main prayer of lustrum, asking Mars to purify Nova Roma. 

"Mars pater,
te precor quaesoque
uti censu Novae Romae rite acto,
hoc die festivissimo lustri faciendi,
hoc anno anniversarii XV Novae Romae conditae,
sies volens propitius
Novae Romae lustrandae,
populo Novo Romano Quiritibus lustrandis,
reique publicae populi Novi Romani Quiritium lustrandae,
mihi domo familiae lustrandae,
quoius rei ergo hoc signum, Novam Romam,
populum Novum Romanum Quirites,
remque publicam populi Novi Romani Quiritium
suovitaurilia circumagi censor iussit,
uti tu morbos visos invisosque,
viduertatem vastitudinemque,
calamitates intemperiasque
prohibessis defendas averruncesque;
utique tu omnes eventus semper
bonos fautosque esse siris, 
rem publicam Novam Romanam salvam servassis
duisque bonam salutem valetudinemque
Novae Romae,
populo Novo Romano Quiritibus,
reique publicae populi Novi Romani Quiritium,
mihi domo familiae,
harumce rerum ergo,
Novae Romae lustrandae,
populi Novi Romani Quiritium lustrandorum,
reique publicae populi Novi Romani Quiritium lustrandae,
lustrique faciendi ergo,
sicuti dixi,
macte hisce libis velut suovitaurilibus inmolandis esto!
Mars pater,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte hisce libis velut suovitaurilibus esto!"
 
"Father Mars,
now, upon having properly conducted the Census of Nova Roma,
on this most festive day of celebrating the Lustrum,
in the year of the 15th Anniversary of the founding of Nova Roma,
I pray and beseech you
that you be benevolent and propotious
to Nova Roma under lustration,
to the Nova Roman people of Quirites under lustration,
and to the republic of the Nova Roman people of Quirites under lustration,
to me, to my household and to my family under lustration;
to which intent the Censor has bidden these sacrificial cakes as a suovetaurilia
to be led around this symbol, Nova Roma,
the Nova Roman people of Quirites,
and the republic of the Nova Roman people of Quirites;
that you keep away, ward off, and remove
sickness, seen and unseen,
barrenness and destruction,
ruin and unseasonable influence;
that you allow all events
to be good and salutary always, 
preserve in health the Nova Roman Republic,
and give good health and strength to Nova Roma,
to the Nova Roman people of Quirites,
and to the republic of the Nova Roman people of Quirites,
to me, to my household and to my family, 
For these very reasons,
to the intent of purifying Nova Roma,
purifying the Nova Roman people of Quirites,
purifying the republic of the Nova Roman people of Quirites
and of making a Lustrum,
as I have said,
deign to accept the offering of these sacrificial cakes as a suovetaurilia.
Father Mars,
to the same intent
deign to accept the offering of these sacrificial cakes as a suovetaurilia."

 
5. SACRIFICIUM SUOVETAURILIUM
 
When the main prayer has finished, the celebrant quaestor and pontifex, Cn. Lentulus, in the name of the censors, places the suovetaurilia into the fire, and says the following for each item he offers (carefully, because pronouncing the name of Mars is forbidden here):
 
"Eiusque rei ergo
macte suovitaurilibus inmolandis esto."
 
"And to this intent
be blessed by the sacrifice of suovetaurilia."
 
[Placing sacrificial cake representing pig into the fire.]
 
"Eiusque rei ergo
macte suovitaurilibus inmolandis esto."
 
"And to this intent
be blessed by the sacrifice of suovetaurilia."
 
[Placing sacrificial cake representing sheep into the fire.]
 
"Eiusque rei ergo
macte suovitaurilibus inmolandis esto."
 
"And to this intent
be blessed by the sacrifice of suovetaurilia."
 
[Placing sacrificial cake representing bull into the fire.]
 
 
6. SACRIFICIUM STRUIS ET FERTI

Now the celebrant Lentulus standing in for the censors, has to sacrifice a strues and a fertum, too. The strues is a pile of small offering-cakes, a heap of cakes. The fertum is a particular type of cake.
 
"Mars pater,
uti te suovetaurilibus immolatis
bonis precibus bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte hac strue esto!"
 
"Father Mars,
as by sacrificing you the suovetaurilia
I have prayed well with good prayers,
for the very same reason
be thou blessed by this strues."
 
[Strues is placed into the fire.]
 
"Mars pater,
uti te suovetaurilibus immolatis
bonis precibus bene precatus sum,
eiusdem rei ergo
macte hoc ferto esto!"
 
"Father Mars,
as by sacrificing you the suovetaurilia
I have prayed well with good prayers,
for the very same reason
be thou blessed by this fertum."
 
[Fertum is placed into the fire.]

 
7. PIACULUM
 
At the end, a piaculum is to be done for the sake of safety, in case if the celebrant made a mistake in the ceremony. For the piaculum, pontifex Cn. Lentulus offers another suovetaurilia to Mars, as required, and incense for all gods invoked:
 
"Mars pater,
si quid tibi in illisce libis velut suovitaurilibus neque satisfactum est,
te hisce libis velut suovitaurilibus piaculo."
 
"Father Mars,
if something in those sacrificial cakes as a suovetaurilia was not pleasing to you,
I placate you with these sacrificial cakes as a suovetaurilia ."
 
[Another 3 cakes representing pig, sheep and bull are placed into the fire.]
 
"Iane, Iuppiter Optime Maxime, Mars, Quirine,
si quid vobis in hoc lustro displicuit,
vos hoc thure obmovendo piaculo."
 
"Ianus, Iuppiter, the Best and Greatest, Mars, Quirinus,
if anything in this Lustum was displeasing to you,
I placate you with this incense."
 
[Incense is placed in the focus of the altar.]
 
 
8. CLOSING OF THE LUSTRUM
 
The celebrant cries three times: 
 
"Nova Roma lustrata est!

"Nova Roma is purified by the Lustrum!

And closes:

Ilicet!"
 
"It's permitted to go!"
 
And the Lustrum of Nova Roma is solemnly closed by Cn. Lentulus pontifex and quaestor.


VALETE!

VIVAT NOVA ROMA ANNORUM XV!

LONG LIVE THE 15 YEARS OLD NOVA ROMA!




Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92427 From: gattarocanadese Date: 2013-12-30
Subject: Re: LUSTRUM of the CENSUS 2766 AUC
Salve, Lentule!

Thank you for your beautiful and inspirational lustral service.

Vale!
C. Cl. Quadratus


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92428 From: iulius_sabinus Date: 2013-12-30
Subject: Convening the Comitia Curiata!
SALVETE!


I, Titus Iulius Sabinus, Pontifex and former Pontifex Maximus of Nova Roma, receiving favorable auspices (Aves admittunt!) for both: to be allowed to call the Comitia Curiata to order and the Comitia Curiata to proceed witnessing the election of the Curule Magistrates for the year 2767 a.U.c announce:

The Comitia Curiata is hereby called to assemble starting with this day, pr. Kal Ian (31st of Dec 2013)  in order that the  Lictores and Lictrices of Nova Roma may:
- attest the election of Curule Magistrates for the year 2767 a.U.c.
- attest appointments of sacerdotes and an augur.
- attest the status elevation of a citizen.

Given under my hand this thirty day of December 2766 a.U.c (AD 2013) in the consulship of L. Sulla (III) cos. sine collega.

VALETE!
Sabinus
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92429 From: iulius_sabinus Date: 2013-12-30
Subject: My thanks to Tullius Valerianus!
SALVETE!


My thanks to augur Tullius Valerianus for his dedication and determination taking the auspices for calling the Comitia Curiata to order.

VALETE,
Sabinus 
Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92430 From: Belle Morte Statia Date: 2013-12-31
Subject: Re: [Nova_roma_] LUSTRUM of the CENSUS 2766 AUC
Sta. Cornelia Aeternia Cn. Lentulo Pontifici Omnibusque S.P.D.

Thank you Lentulus for a beautiful ceremony and to your assistant T. Popilia Laenas as well.  Much applause.

Valete bene,
Statia Cornelia Aeternia



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92431 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-31
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Salvete Consules Elect!
 
In honor of your election to office, I have attached a picture of the new designer decorating scheme for the atrium of the CA Office for next year. You can both hang a copy in your new offices!

Vale,

L VITELLIVS TRIARIVS



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92432 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-31
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Ave,

The pic was not attached. but I have to know was it a pic of Tink with a whip? LOL

Sorry I couldn't resist. ;)

Vale,

Sulla


Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92433 From: Lucius Vitellius Date: 2013-12-31
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
 Ave Sulla,

It should be attached now.


Vale,

L VITELLIVS TRIARIVS



Group: Nova-Roma Message: 92434 From: Robert Woolwine Date: 2013-12-31
Subject: Re: Results of the Comitia Centuriata
Ave, 

Nope its not there, I dont think attachments are allowed on the ML.

Respectfully,

Sulla