Ave,

We have just as much fighting...debating as ancient Rome did.  I would respectfully suggest you take some time to read up on nova roma's history.  It has been through quite a bit of conflict.  Keep in mind growth requires debate and conflict.  The Republican nature of government also is one of debate too.  Be prepared that when election time happens there will be debate and disagreement.

Nova roma has had 2 civil wars in 16 years.  This is a fact.  During that time we have had people come and go.  Sometimes they disappeared and sometimes they left with a splash.  It's better to know the history of the organization to not be surprised when conflict happens.

Also, this has been the most stable nova roma has been since nova roma was founded. 

Respectfully,

Sulla

SALVETE!

Correction:

" as time the SL ROMA sim admins are in holiday..."

VALETE,
Sabinus

"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--------------------------------------------

Ave,

Everything in a matter of degrees is politics. 

Vale,

Sulla

Ave,

I would say not much is different between ancient Rome view of politics.  Considering that one as a candidate or perspective candidate did what they could to increase their "q".  Whether that would be putting on games...hiring nomenclatures...etc etc.  If one "picked their nose" as you suggested that would be the equivalent of a faux pas...that would need to be fixed.

Some of us who have been in NR...have an extensive history that a newbie lacks.  Over time you will adapt to nr and if your lucky enough you can help change nr a little.

Well I'm off to sleep. :)  take care.

Vale,

Sulla

Ave,

Interesting response.  Thanks for the laugh.  Felix the cat...lol funny.

Vale,

Sulla

Cn. Iulius Caesar sal.

I am replying to all who commented on this thread via this last post.

Firstly, Nova Roma is a community - warts and all. If anyone was expected edification, without a single wart, let alone a collection of them, then you are no doubt, to put it mildly shocked. Well get over it, it happens here. If it isn't over Scholastica and what she did, a matter she was found responsible for by a jury of her peers, then it will be something else and someone else. It can get feisty in here. It can get very pointed. This community is not some hallowed institution where people mumble inanities and pleasantries. Occasionally it gets a bit rough and ready. Well what can I say? It has been that way since the doors opened, different people, different issues, it often ends up here. It ain't going to change. The names of the combatants may change, the issues, but it always ends up in the arena of the Main List.

Secondly, in respect of Scholastica, this is exactly how she works. It starts with a comment in public and then simply put indoctrination behind the scenes in responses to questions put in private to her. It is not just her "spin" on events, it is a factually wrong and warped series of distortions. Now having just processed 120 or 130 new citizens does anyone credibly believe that I am going to stand by and watch as she repeats the whole sorry exercise that led to her public disgrace? Well I am not. So suck it up.

Thirdly, this is directed to Scholastica. It doesn't take much to get you to reveal your true self now does it. Read that drivel in your reply to me. Parse it against the fact that the Senate found you responsible for a disgraceful episode in Nova Roma's history. An abuse of your office. Your explanations were not credible, they were not even incredible. They were ludicrous. I will deal with that entire version of events in your reply to me shortly, but you and I both know you have been up to this for years in the censura. You used your office as scribe and then as censor to indoctrinate new citizens with your bogus version of history.

Optime vale

--------------------------------------------

I'm going to try to be there...it depends on when the nurses will be done changing my wound vac...and their daily routine here.  I'm looking forward to seeing everyone on sl again. :)

Vale,

Sulla

Lol nope not yet rofl....I bribe them...Every 5th pain pill I give back to them....lol but seriously everything has gone rather well...it's just taken far longer than expected.

Actually I think I'm one of their favorites... I like to share my stuff...my cousin sent me some wonderful almonds...4 bags of almonds and I gave 1 bag to the nurses. :)  and last weekend my sister came here with a lebanese dinner and  we both shared with the on duty nurses.  

Vale

Sulla

Ave,

I've only lost my patience 3 times.  Each time it was a combination of pain spike...waiting for care longer than 40 min...and dislike of the meals...luckily I'm well past that now...I'm just not yet in a position to go home yet.  I miss being home....but I'm comfortable here for the most part...and waiting 2-3 weeks for next surgery....The last one! :)

Who told ya about that anime convention ;) he heh heh

Vale,

Sulla

Caninus sal.

 

Scholastica stated:

 

"Your take, and Sulla's, and that of others in the tribe to which you belong.  For the benefit of the new citizens, this 'gang' was a different political faction.  Do not confuse the moderate citizens with any 'gang.'  "

 

Every time this comes up Scholastica refers to the Libre as the 'moderate citizens.' How is it that a group of citizens who put in motion a plan to install a dictator can be labeled as 'moderate'. Let's be a bit more honest when we reminisce about the good ol' days, shall we? Moderate and freedom loving citizens do not resort to creating a dictator when they cannot spend funds from the treasury on their pet projects. Especially so when the project costs half of the entire sum of the treasury, the project is sole sourced and not offered out to bid in an RFP, the project work will be done by an individual within Nova Roma with close political ties to the consules at the time, the project price is outrageous, and the project is not defined with a clear statement of work and solid project plan.

Bene valete.

 

Marcus Pompeius Caninus

 

 

 

 

Ave,

I would argue that we are the moderates in our actions during the coup.  We certainly did not take anyone's speech away...which was done repeatedly to us.  We did not try to take a third of Nova roma's money for some vague template of a plan for website improvement.

Even when I was sole consul last year no one was deprived of their right of speech.  Compare that to nova roma under the control of the former powers that be....by that standard alone nr is 180 degrees better.

Absence might make the heart fonder; but those of us who fought against the attempted coup will not have nova roma go through that history again. 

Respectfully,

Sulla

Ave,

Yes it was.  However nova roma is bound by macronational-laws given that nova roma is registered as a not for profit corporation in the state of Maine and with the IRS.  As such we are bound to be compliant with those laws and regulations.  Those former powers that be tried to violate those laws by imposing a dictator in a way that would violate Maine law. 

There are other issues that we must contend with beyond the mos maiorum of the ancients.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Ave,

I think Lucius Cornelius Sulla Felix was an amazing Roman!  His triumph over adversity alone puts him in a standard very few other people have been able to reach.  He was an undefeated and very successful general.  He was conservative in his outlook.   Each of his reforms tended to look back to history to fix the modern ills of the republic.  Finally, I esteem and live to the axiom no better friend....no worse enemy.

Respectfully,

Sulla

M. Pompeius Caninus M. Cornelio Varroni spd.

Welcome, new citizen! I hope you will find enjoyment and value here in Nova Roma.

 

You asked, "How does this further the cause of New Rome?" Well, this is not a Latin Club - we hope Nova Roma will be much more than that, something closer to a true res publica. The fighting is not something that happens everyday, so do not be too worried about it. And, for the most part, the fighting is minor compared to what our ancient forefathers went through while they steered the course of the ship of state, as your gens brother Sulla has stated. On closer examination, you may find the fighting actually is educational and edifying. Nova Roma becomes stronger and wiser when the lessons of its past are kept in mind. When Nova Roma forgets its past, it is very likely to repeat mistakes. Some of the fights in the past, like the fight over the treasury in 2010, could have had far worst consequences had they been played out a different way. Even more so if people did not raise strenuous objections and fight for what is best for our res publica. Too many times in the past have citizens come up with ideas that, if fully executed, could have resulted in the loss of Nova Roma's charity status or would have enriched one or more members at the expense of the treasury. It is very important for all citizens to raise their voices and speak plainly and openly regarding the leadership, strategic goals and direction of this organization. Many of us are here because we have a passion for Rome and part of the passion is expressed through politics and debate in this forum. I appreciate your candor and your fresh perspective.

Fac valeas!

 

Marcus Pompeius Caninus

 

 

 

 

Caesar sal.

The issues were:

1. The propriety of sole sourcing a project that would strip just under half our funds

2. That no independent evaluation was done, they relied on the word of the original designer who had left NR and hadn't seen the state of the program for some time. Therefore commercially it could have cost more if the damage that had been done to it was worse.

3. That the intended recipient was a close associate of one of the principals in the coup attempt

4. That the method of convening the senate ignored a veto imposed by one of the consuls


Personally I don't have a problem with the office of dictator - as long as rules are followed, which they were not. In any case subsequently it was discovered that the office as structured is illegal under Maine State law, where we are incorporated.

Optime valete

--------------------------------------------

Caninus Figulo spd.

 

Oh, it definitely does have a direct relation on whether one is a moderate or not.

 

 Yes, the office of dictator has a sound and reasonable purpose. Appointing a dictator is a good thing when the circumstances call for such a measure. However, there was no clear and present danger to Nova Roma. The Senate was functioning and magistrates were working. There were simple ways to take care of the database and the server. The attempt to appoint a dictator in that particular case was a calculated move to force Nova Roma to proceed with a course of action that should and could readily be dealt with in the normal day-to-day operations of the Senate. No dictator was required --- except by those who were not satisfied with leaving the decision in the hands of the Senate. A moderate would allow such decisions to be made at the appropriate levels and accept the outcome rather than take the extreme action of appointing a dictator to force a particular outcome. Taking an extraordinary measure when ordinary means will do the job is not a moderate course of action. I find it ironic that a group that advocated freedom sought to place restrictions on the Senate in order to proceed with a crazy technology project.

 

Optime vale!

 

Marcus Pompeius Caninus

 

 

 

 

Ave caeca,

The Senate met previously in 2010.  It was one of the items I discussed and gave to the irs agent during the audit. 
Prior to May the consuls were able to work together.  That changed when quintilanus tried to push the IT fixes.  If I recall correctly Albucius veto the session and then the Tribunes (except to his credit, dexter) got involved which made a very ambiguous Senate session clearly illegal.

The conflict between magistrates is a feature!  It is an important check on possible abuses of power.  This is why we never had a problem with conflict even when we lost battles we never gave up the fight.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Salve amica!

I submit the Senate was functioning. But when the Senate was not meeting the needs and expectations of some of the magistrates steps were taken to ensure the Senate could not function. Again, this is not the type of activity someone who describes themselves as politically moderate would engage in. And it certainly isn't a tactic employed by someone who advocates political liberty.

Fac valeas amica!

 

Marcus Pompeius Caninus

 

 

 

 

Caninus Sullae sal.

 

Exactly! Each magistrate works with a colleague. Sometimes a colleague will object to a particular course of action or veto a project. That's how things work. It's the Roman way. As a magistrate, you accept the veto and you move on. You can't always have things go your own way. A magistrate who is unable to deal with a collegial veto and accept such gracefully is unfit for office.

Fac valeas!

 

Marcus Pompeius Caninus

 

 

 

 

Ave,

:)

Only 2 people in nr were able to govern in extraordinary ways.  Flavius Vedius, as nova roma's only dictator, about 10 or 11 years ago...and myself last year as sole consul without a colleague.   Ironically,  both actions were inspired by actions of our ancients and Gods willing we will never need a consul without a colleague again.

Even now I look back with fondness when I was consul without a colleague. ..I enjoyed being busy and productive.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Caesar sal.

The dictatorship had been an option that was being discussed since 2009. I found that out after an email discussing it was accidentally sent to me. What then happened was that some people were itching to find any old excuse to implement it. The goals were (1) purges (as confirmed in my conversations with the would-be dictator during the crisis where he didn't rule them out in specific cases - whatever that means - but assured me they wouldn't be widespread for whatever that was worth), and (2) loot the treasury.

The actual senate call was made by consuls AND almost all the tribunes. The reason they used the tribunes (except Dexter who opposed this ignoring of a veto) was to try to shield one consul from the veto of another, the tribunes not being able to be vetoed. The constitution didn't allow for that and therefore, correctly, Albucius consul and Sabinus censor refused to recognize that the Senate call was valid. Issues of legality never stopped the plotters of course, many having had a career in NR in prostituting the laws of NR to the highest bidder to meet their own ends, so the vote for a dictator proceeded.

What happened then was simple. Sulla and I threatened to use our own personal funds to sue the proposed dictator if he touched one cent of the treasury money. That forced the issue and he consulted a lawyer. The rest is history - the coup fizzled and died when the would-be dictator refused to accept the office based on legal advice.

Optime valete

--------------------------------------------

M. Pompeius Caninus quiritibus salutem.


Welcome to Nova Roma News Radio, broadcasting to you from the eternal
city.

Today is the Volturnalia and we have a special event taking place at the
river front. Our reporter, Titus Nautius Sura, has a report on the
bireme race!

Salvete omnes! The Governor of Alasca et Havaia has arranged a course on
the river to honor Volturnus with a bireme race. It is 6:00 pm with
clear skies and a warm breeze. There was plenty of action earlier but
the final race to determine today's winner is about to begin. The six
finalists are: Nicephorus, commanding the bireme "Mersatus", owned by
Aulus Iulius Paterculus for Factio Veneta; Tita Pompeia Canina, our
Praetor Minor's eldest daughter, commanding the bireme "Ops", owned by
Marcus Pompeius Caninus for Factio Veneta; Quintus Visellius, commanding
the bireme "Triton's Pride", owned by Gaius Decius Laterensis for Factio
Albata; Apollodoros of Crete, commanding the bireme "Wind Rider", owned
by Lucius Atellus Ulpius for Factio Veneta; Lucius Vitellius Triarius,
commanding his own bireme “Mortem Carthagenian” for Factio Veneta;
and, Midir, commanding the bireme "Dagda", owned by Publius Annæus
Constantinus for Factio Russata.

Banners for the factiones are displayed proudly everywhere along the
river banks. Several merchants are drawing crowds, eager to purchase
trinkets and food.

The biremes have lined up and stand ready. M. Pompeius Caninus drops the
mappa and they're underway. It’s a good clean start. The ships are
closing in on the first dolphin. Mortem Carthagenian is beginning to
pull away with Ops well ahead of the rest of the pack. Passing the first
dolphin Triton’s Pride is in third place, Mersatus in fourth, Wind
Rider is in fifth and Dagda is in sixth.

The boats are moving almost effortlessly on the river as they pass the
second dolphin with Mortem Carthagenian still in the lead. Triton’s
Pride has moved up second pulling a bit ahead of Mersatus. Ops seems to
have faded to the back of pack with Wind Rider and Dagda.

As they approach the third dolphin Mersatus has surged ahead to take the
lead. Ops has somehow managed to regain second place. The crowd is
cheering as Mortem Carthagenian passes the dolphin in third position
with Triton’s Pride close behind. Wind Rider and Dagda are pulling up
the rear.

The river is shimmering in the late afternoon sun with very little wave
action. The boats are just passing the fourth dolphin now. Only one more
to go! And Ops has a commanding lead. Mortem Carthagenian is well behind
in second position. Triton’s Pride is in third and Dagda appears to be
making a move, now in fourth position ahead of Mersatus and Wind Rider.
Mortem Carthagenian has just pushed Ops into the spina! That's a tough
break for the young Canina. It will take some time for the crew of Ops
to recover as Mortem Carthagenian seizes the lead.

And here they come! Mortem Carthagenian crosses first! Dagda follows
almost immediately in second place. Mersatus has come up to third place,
leaving Triton’s Pride a bit behind in fourth place. Wind Rider takes
fifth place. And Ops is limping in sixth place. The Veneta fans are
going wild. Cheers can be heard all along the banks of the Tiber. Our
Curule Aedile is pumping his fist as he guides his ship to the shore!
And his son has just come out of nowhere and covered Triarius in
Falnerian! Well, there will definitely be a party tonight! Russata and
Albata fans are joyful as well and the celebrations are bound to last
long into the night.

That's it from the Tiber River grandstands. Lucius Vitellius Triarius
has scored a win with his bireme Mortem Carthagenian. And the Blues have
taken the bireme trophy from last year’s winners, the Whites.
Congratulations to Triarius on his victory! Now back to the studio.


The final results and this report are on the NR Wiki at
http://novaroma.org/nr/Volturnalia_2767_AUC_(Nova_Roma)


Valete omnes!

M. Pompeius Caninus
Praetore Alascae et Havaiae

CENSORIAL EDICT ON APPOINTMENT OF SCRIBE:

Cn. Iulius Caesar censor sal.

Effective immediately, I appoint Titus Iulius Sabinus as my scribe within the censura.

Optime valete

Caesar Varroni sal.

Re your points:

1) No, the Senate has met since then.

2) Because the Constitution assigns control of financial matters to the Senate. The Senate is also the Board of Directors of the non-profit corporation Nova Roma Inc.

3) The Constitution does not say that a "dire emergency" is a pre-condition for an SCU.

Optime vale

--------------------------------------------

Ave,

Have you read the constitution?

Vale,

Sulla

Ave,

Except you have already called me a sociopath....so pardon if I kinda take that claim with a grain of salt.

Vale,

Sulla

A. Vergilius Figulus Varroni Sullaeque S.P.D.

I had skipped over a lot of the debate since the mud-slinging isn't my favorite part of NR (but at least ot hasn't scared me off, either!), but I couldn't resist going back throught that new cives thread to find where Sulla was called a sociopath. Forgive my lack of self control, ha ha!

Sulla, going through that thread, it looks to me like it was Lupus who called you a sociopath, not Varro. Am I missing something? If Varro did too, I'd sure enjoy reading it, if you'd be so kind as to point me in the direction of said post...

Valéte!

Caesar Varroni sal.

1) In the archives here in this list. The tribunes publish the agenda and results here.

2) The senate can only pass an SC as per the Constitution, so it doesn't have a preference. That is the way it is.

3) What seems to be so? SCUs have been used when the situation has demanded it in the view of the senate - people deserting posts and responsibilities (like calling the curia to invest imperium), where laws required an action that wasn't possible, etc etc.

Optime vale

--------------------------------------------

Salve Figule.

This is not Rome. This is Nova Roma. Underpinning our structure and finances is a non-profit corporation. Now, as to the issue of removing a pontifex maximus, the fact the ex-pontifex maximus had a spat over who won the consular elections indicates an un-Roman attitude. Instead of doing his duty and investing the new consuls with imperium, he put his pants on his head and went off into the corner to suck his thumb. As the law requires the consuls be invested he was removed. If you want to talk about an un-Roman attitude then point your gaze to wards the ex-PM. He was the one reduced to sulking like a baby and the Senate wasn't going to sit on its hands waiting for him to get over his tantrum. The other possibility was that he would simply have refused to invest them. That was unacceptable.

Vale bene
Caesar

--------------------------------------------

Caesar Varroni sal

Wrong thread

Optime vale
--------------------------------------------

A. Vergilius Figulus Cn. Julió Caesarí S.P.D.

You said: "This is not Rome. This is Nova Roma."

That is a tautology. Nevertheless it makes me sad that you feel the need to bring it up, because it makes me wonder if Scholastica is perhaps correct in her assertions that the current powers that be in NR really have abandoned NR's advertised mission...

As far as the former pontifex maximus, based on what you said, perhaps I was wrong about you all being uncomfortable with his removal as well. Sulla et. al. seemed to imply they didn't like that it had to be done, only that they considered it a necessity. I completely agree that his failure to convene the collegium was wrong. I'm inclined to think it was un-Roman, but that doesn't magically make the SCU used to oust him Roman. At best it was an unfortunate necessity. I thought my mention of the fact that he refused to grant imperium would have indicated that my "gaze" was indeed "cast" toward him as much as anyone else.

I can't imagine any way he could've convinced me that his actions (or lack thereof) were right, but I certainly would have liked to see him try. I'm not subscribed to BA or some of the other lists, however, so I probably missed part of the debate. I did notice he started to post some criticism of Sulla on this list and was hoping that this would begin an explanation of his actions for those of us not so close to the action. Nevertheless he appears to have been banned from the list shortly thereafter, which strikes me as odd coming from those complaining about the prior regime's alleged restraints on speech and plans to cast out dissenters... Did the SCU ban him completely from NR rather than simply removing him from office? Or am I mistaken and he is still welcome on this list, but has voluntarily withdrawn? I would indeed be happy to be corrected on this matter... (And if he has been exiled, someone might explain to Varro that this is why he can't contact his governor.)

Valé!

Ave,

My sincere apologizes.  I know someone did...and called me Felix the cat (same person). :)

I do apoloigze. 

Vale,

Sulla

Ave,

The problem is...that it's true.

Ironically Caesar and myself were members of the boni.  A conservative faction in Nova Roma.  Our goal was always to go back to the ancients and try ancient methods in NR first. 

Case in point when I was censor the first time in 2001 and we had the gender wars.  My response was simple.  Latin is a gender driven language.  If you are a man your name must be masculine.   If you are a woman your name must be feminine.   To account for those gender disorders and such if your macronational government recognizes your gender classification then so shall nr. 

That was not good enough for the liberal wing in Nova Roma and that created years of conflict that have never been fully resolved, even to this day though the specific issue is resolved.

My point for bringing this up is that if you are expecting a carbon copy...nr and any organization is not going to measure up to that expectation.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Salve Varro

Well then there must have been 94 times people were insisting this was Rome, flying in the face of the obious that this is Nova Roma, and no doubt suggesting 9as was the way) that we could safely ignore macronational laws.

If it sounds that strange, research building a time machine.

Vale bene
Caesar

--------------------------------------------

Salve Figule

Re. ex-PM: At last report he is still in his corner sucking his thumb. He can come, go, dance a jig on his head as far as am I concerned.

You may feel it is a tautology, but it isn't. People need reminding of that. Nova Roma is governed by the contents of its constitution. If you don't like it, invest a number of years in NR, get to be consul, promulgate changes and see if the senate and people will pass it. Oh, and ensure that you factor in the requirements of our incorporated status. Simply thinking this should be more Roman is all very well, but in its current form it cannot be. When in the past people have gone too far down the "this is Rome" path, we have ended up nearly or actually breaking macronational laws in respect of our incorporated status.

Read my paper in the archives of this list if you want to know how we could make it more Roman. Its title is "Nova Roma Reborn".

Vale
Caesar

--------------------------------------------

A. Vergilius Figulus Caesarí S.P.D.

I'm glad to hear that the ex-PM is only gone of his own accord, so that I don't mistakenly blame you or others for his absence.

I also hope that you are sincere in your assertion that you're making NR as Roman as practical and legal. I will happily do my part to help. I paid my taxes this year in good faith that you all want what's best for NR, and, in particular want it to fulfill its mission. (I noticed that I'm not listed as a taxpayer, though, so I'll contact Sulla at some point to see if we can figure out what happened there...)

Valé valéteque!

Salve Figule

No, I only spent 10 years arguing that we shouldn't simply assert we are independent and stumble into legal quagmires, and imperil our non-profit status as a result. for the fun of it. It's been a real hoot arguing with the demented, the delusional, and the devious - I never had any other things that could have occupied my time.

As for relying on anything Scholastica said, well her old buddies in RPR didn't want her in 2011, so if even that pack of inveterate losers returned her to sender that should tell you something.

Read my paper, if you haven't, since that will explain where Nova Roma has to go - in my opinion. We however needed to make repairs to the existing structure to ensure that 2010 did not occur again, as well as correct a number of issues through legislation. Sulla and myself have pursued that goal, and will continue to pursue it.

Vale bene
Caesar

--------------------------------------------

Avete omnes,

I just received a phone from Stephen, brother of Tiberius galerius Paulinus.  He informed me that Paulinus passed away from a possible blood clot.  I am shocked and very saddened over the loss of my friend and very important members of our community.   He was a consular and very successful censors who always worked for the success of nova roma.  I will greatly miss his calming words and insight...As much as I will miss his discussions such as on topic of the red wedding on game of thrones.

I was planning on visiting him once I've fully recovered and now I won't have the pleasure and privilege of meeting him and I'm so disappointed with that I've missed my chance.

May g-d grant him and his family peace and I hope his passing was painless.

Most respectfully,

Sulla

SALVETE!

Incredible sad news....

VALETE,
Sabinus


"Every individual is the architect of his own fortune" - Appius Claudius

--------------------------------------------

Salve Sulla et omnes,

Truly sad and chocking news, we have lost one of our best citizens.

Please convey my deepest condolences to his family.

Vale,
Crassus

Caesar sal.

This is awful and shocking news. I have lost a good friend, as did we all those of us who knew him. Nova Roma has lost a true stalwart. Paulinus was a tower of enthusiasm and moderate policy making, intelligent, witty and strong-minded.He and I shared a number of conversations on the phone where we were both always laughing and his advice was always sound. My condolences to his family.

Optime valete

--------------------------------------------