Salve,

 

I mentioned the Vatican and the Knights of Malta because they are examples of unusual status, not necessarily because we can be *exactly* like them. Other examples of small states that have gained a sort of special status are Sealand, Seborga, and the Hutt River Province... but we can't do exactly what they have done either, lol!

 

What we're doing is pretty unique. We're bringing a dead Republic back to life. We are reestablishing a government and a religion, and working to rebuild a culture that we were not born into. That doesn't automatically make us a "real nation" but it sure as hell makes us more than a special interest group or organization, or a corporation.  I say we have an opportunity to make this into *anything* we want to, provided we're willing to believe new things are possible, and work toward our goals long term.

 

If we establish an administrative capital (much like corporations build headquarters) maintain that it is the  capital of Rome reborn and that we hold it to have a limited sort of special sovereignty... people will laugh at us and call us cranks. However, if ignore the laughter and just keep on going for a few decades, the laughter will cease. All we have to do is keep working to make things real.

 

Eventually, people will have to agree that it is effectively the capital of our community. Will that get us a place on the UN Security Council? Hell no. Could it lead to some special official consideration and status? Possible, and more likely as time goes on.

 

-Marcus Cassius julianus

 

 

 

In a message dated 9/13/2015 11:25:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com writes:

Salvete,

 

I quite agree with Gaia Maria Caeca here. I'm not "pretending" to be Roman... I have incorporated large amounts of Roman religion, culture and thought into my everyday life, and have followed it as a part of my daily existence for years now.

 

The SCA calls its brand of reenacting "Playing at who we really are."  In Nova Roma, I'm not playing at all. Roman-ness is a fact of my everyday world.

 

People join the SCA and other history organizations to enjoy a passtime and the community of others interested in history. I helped found this place, and am HERE, to do everything in my power to make Rome live again as much as possible. For real. It's not a hobby or an interest - it's a life's work that I've undertaken.

 

Not that there isn't fun and community here... but the object is to restore a living Religio Romana, and a real Roman state. It's a goal that is larger than myself and my personal life.

 

-Marcus Cassius Julianus

 

 

 

In a message dated 9/13/2015 11:55:41 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com writes:

Salve,

Salvete,

 

To be fair, the Declaration does NOT say "limited sovereignty"... it just says sovereignty. I'm pretty sure I've used the term limited sovereignty elsewhere in some of the original documents, but honestly I can't remember where right at the moment.

 

Also, Nova Roma was founded as a micronation. While that term has been removed, I fully believe that a micronation (a miniature "created" nation)  can come to be a "real nation", if only a tiny one. Sealand is a Micronation, and it also has legal international status.  I personally consider it to be as "real" as any other nation... even though I recognize it's resources, and capabilities are infinitely smaller than any established state. 

 

If we build a symbolic administrative world capital (much like the Vatican is for Catholicism) and declare it to be the capital of the Roman Republic who can honestly say it wouldn't be, so long as it was honestly conducting Roman business?  The longer such a thing exists and continues to function the more real it will become.

 

If even 10% of the world were to agree it was a functioning Roman capital overseeing the business of Roman culture, religion and civilization throughout the world, I'd consider that total victory. It wouldn't matter to me one bit if the US, USSR, China, the Eurozone, etc. considered us to have no sovereignty at all... so long as they understand the fact that we're totally harmless.

 

The truth is, no one can say what is or is not ultimately achievable. If we last it out for several decades, we have no idea how far it could go. Hell, some country could invite us to do as we please on a few miles of unwanted land somewhere, and it could all become very real.

 

There are PLENTY of "real" nations out there who are too small to matter. No reason our heirs couldn't be counted among them, lol.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In a message dated 9/13/2015 5:34:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com writes:

Salve,

Something like Pandora's Kharis sounds like the best option to me personally. Perhaps it could be combined with designated days of service to the community. I am a bit concerned about going to a lot of trouble to duplicate other organizations' efforts. Maybe we could also form a long-term partnership with an existing non-profit, particularly one with a Pagan focus, maybe a Pagan rights and education organization like Our Freedom Coalition, which is US-based.

http://www.ourfreedomcoalition.org

Mark A. Holmes


--------------------------------------------

 
Ave




Something like Pandora's Kharis sounds like the
best option to me personally. Perhaps it could be combined
with designated days of service to the community. I am a bit
concerned about going to a lot of trouble to duplicate other
organizations' efforts. Maybe we could also form a
long-term partnership with an existing non-profit,
particularly one with a Pagan focus, maybe a Pagan rights
and education organization like Our Freedom Coalition, which
is US-based.



http://www.ourfreedomcoalition.org



Noctua

(sorry)


--------------------------------------------

On Mon, 9/14/15, Arthur Waite arthur.f.waite@...
[Nova-Roma] <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com


Subject: Re: [Nova-Roma] Taxes and Marketing - What are we
Marketing?

To: Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Date: Monday, September 14, 2015, 4:26 AM





 



















Salve Noctua salveteque

omnes,   This is a good idea, but we should

decide exactly what approach to take.   The

simplest route would be something along the lines of
Pandora's

Kharis, where we simply vote on a worthy charity each

month and encourage people to make a voluntary
contribution.

Another way would be to organize a particular day of the

year on which we encourage citizens to

volunteer.   Yet another method which would

require more of a centralized effort would be to create
a

medium- to long-term partnership with a single existing

non-profit in which Nova Roma would provide continuing

volunteer hours and money in exchange for being

acknowledged as a sponsor. This would require
significant

dedicated donations and committed volunteers beforehand -
I

think it would be a mistake to take money from NR's

overall budget for this purpose, as it isn't really
the

purpose for  which most people donated it. It might be

easier to initiate such a partnership on a local

level.   The last possibility would be to

create a charitable arm of our own, but I think this
would

probably be a waste of resources, since we would be

duplicating the efforts of other groups while having
less

experience or focus than they have.   Which of

these options sounds best to you, Noctua, or did you
have

something else in mind? What do other people think of
these

possibilities?      Vale et

valete,        Paterculus

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at

10:43 AM, mahtezcatpoc@...

[Nova-Roma] <Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com
wrote:































 



















There's a Greek Pagan organization, Hellenion
(

http://www.hellenion.org

), mostly US-based but with some members in other
countries,

where there has been talk recently about working with
other

Pagan organizations on charity work like donations to
such

organizations as the Malala

Fund (to increase women's and girls' literacy),

the National Coalition Against

Domestic Violence, disaster response, and local things

like homeless shelters, food drives, and winter coat

collections.



Or, we could

do it by ourselves, along with other organizations. And

maybe publicize it a bit. Not to be real loud about it.
But

that would let people know about things that we do that
are

positive.



Maybe that's

something else we could do.



Noctua







---In Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com,

<vedius@...


Salve,

(And, please don't take this as

being personally directed at you, amice, despite it
coming

as a reply to your post. I'm more bouncing off your

topic to hopefully continue a larger discussion which I
feel

is related.)



I'd feel much better about a

marketing fund if there was something we were actually

marketing.

What do we

really have to offer right now? A website (which anyone
can

read for free) and a couple of websites. And the right
to

vote on who's in charge of those assets (or who just

fill a slot in the org chart) for a year. And
occasionally

someone will get together on their own initiative

somewhere.

Yay.

There's so much free content on

the web already, including a lot of free Roman-themed

content, that I submit that what we have to offer must
go

beyond the merely digital. We must have something real,

something substantive, something that people will find

valuable enough that they will be willing to plunk down

their hard-earned money and join. 

I suggest a full-frontal effort to

put together real-world gatherings. Let's give those

regional governors a reason for being beyond just
sending

welcome emails to new members (if we're lucky), and

sending them reminders to pay their taxes. Let's
pour

some of those taxes into the effort. It doesn't have
to

be much to really make a difference. 

This year I paid US$57. A

not-insubstantial sum. And what do I get for that money?
I

can run for office, and I can vote.

There are no other benefits of being

a taxpayer that I can think of off the top of my head. I
can

be a non-taxpaying Citizen and still fully participate
here.

(That should change, by the way, but that's a whole

other discussion.)

I

say that the thing we can market is not just our love of

Rome, nor just our interest in all things Roman, but our

real, visceral, *CONNECTION* to Rome. We *ARE* the
spiritual

descendant of the Roman Republic. *THAT* is what sets us

apart from all the others out there. 

We should have, first and foremost,

real-world rituals being performed by our priests on
behalf

of our cives, subsidized by the State. That's why
there

*IS* a State. Not to give a handful of people an
opportunity

to play power politics on a small scale. There are plenty
of

online games where one can do that. 

(As an aside, some have mentioned

that that's a turn-off for some scholars. You know
what

I say to that? Nova Roma isn't for them. Go join one
of

the dozens of other Roman reenactment, or Roman interest

groups that are out there. Nova Roma is for people who
value

the fact that there are priests making offerings for
their

well-being to the Gods, even if they are not themselves

practitioners of the Religio.)

We should also sponsor a robust

reenactment community. Costuming, crafts, arts and
letters,

gladiator contests, legionnaire demonstrations, etc. We

should have people reaching out to local schools to do

demos. If it's just some guy with a toga, he's
going

to look a lot less impressive than someone who's got

three or four people who can come over as part of the
Nova

Roman Cultural Education Program.

We should embrace Latin as a living

language. I'm one of the first and worst offenders
on

this, and I admit it, unhappily. We should actively

encourage people to learn Latin and use it in all our
fora,

virtual and material. Could we get a member discount for

some online or CD course in Latin? Have we even

tried?

And finally,

there are purely cultural and social events. Book
studies.

Poetry readings. Drama clubs. Cooking get-togethers.
Just

simple hanging out. Even these things cost money. The

provinces were originally supposed to keep half the taxes
to

finance exactly these sorts of events. I say we should
see

that become reality. 

Let's worry about marketing Nova

Roma once we have something real to market. Something
that

gives people real value for your money. I guarantee you,
if

there are events like those I describe above happening
all

over the world, on a monthly or weekly basis, people
will

flock to us. 

Vale,

Flavius Vedius

GermanicusPater Patriae



 































































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Salve,

Greetings,

 

I've been working crazy hours and have lost the thread of conversation a bit. Could someone kindly remind me what NRO stands for? 

 

-Cassius

 

In a message dated 9/14/2015 12:23:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com writes:

Ave

Cassius have you gotten my emails?  I've been trying to get in touch with you for the past 2 weeks if not longer.

Vale,

Sulla

---

Questa e-mail è stata controllata per individuare virus con Avast antivirus. www.avast.com

Salvete,

Salvete;

Ave,

Because that is something I've said I have been working on.  Of course these conversations happened here on the main list...a couple of times. 

Caesar knows exactly what I'm working on.

Vale,

Sulla

Ave,

Instead of trying to highlight an area that is not discussed.  All you did, Severus, is highlight the continued issue of your disappearance.  Since these issues have been discussed multiple times.  I hate to say it but our newer citizens have more knowledge of nr's current events then you, a candidate for governor.  That is quite striking.

Perhaps if you spent time catching up on the archive you wouldn't have made this faux pas.

Vale,

Sulla

Salve,

Ave,

Of course you don't agree with me.  Yet you are still wrong.

You are the one who deviated the topic to an area not discussed in NRO.  To plant a seed that it's not exhaustive only to be shown that if you were actually informed of what has been discussed here on the ml, multiple times thusly highlighting your ignorance.

Vale,

Sulla

Caninus Caesari sal.

 

Nova Roma should not expect anything more than limited sovereignty. And Nova Roma should expect a huge challenge to gain any status remotely approaching limited sovereignty. For any international recognition of limited sovereignty, Nova Roma will almost certainly need to demonstrate a multigenerational culture. Recognition is highly unlikely for a landless people if they are simply random individuals around the world who subscribe to a certain vision or favor a certain form of government or religion. International NGO status would be the best we could get.

 

Optime vale.

 

Marcus Pompeius Caninus

 

 

 

 

1. Mithradates the Great and Hannibal.

2. The Battle of the Teutoburg Forest resulted in the annihilation of the Roman commander Publius Quintilius Varus and his forces by the Germanic tribesmen of  Arminius in 9 AD. Three legions were annihilated and Germania remained independent from Roman rule

3. A corvus was a Roman device they used to board enemy ships and fight in infantry combat vs. Naval warfare. It was used during the First Punic War against Carthage

4. Eryx was an ancient city and mountain in Sicily that was contested during the First Punic War. In 244 BCE the Carthaginaian Hamilcar Barca recaptured the town from Roman forces by moving his forces at night to the slopes of the mountain and aiding the besieged Carthaginaian garrison in Drepanum. Combined they overwhelmed the Roman forces in Eryx and then positioned themselves between the Roman forces at the summit of the mountain and Roman camp at its base. He then moved the population of the city to the nearby town of Drepanum and continued in that position for two more years.

5. To be put under the yoke was an ancient practice of forcing defeated soldiers to stoop under a "yoke" of spears whilst being derided by the victors. Now it commonly means a way of humiliating the losers in a conflict. In 321 BCE, the two Roman consuls, Spurius Postumius Albinus and Titus Veturius Calvinus, leading an invading force into Samnium, and were trapped in Caudium and couldn't escape and after a desperate struggle, they were forced to submit to the humiliating terms imposed by the Samnites. The romans passed under the yokr and the captured consuls pledged themselves to a 5 year treaty which was dictated on yhe Samnite's terms.

Salve,

Tiberius Ulpius Pulcher

Aaaaaannndd that's why having to use my phone is the devil. Replied to the wrong person accidently. Sorry everyone, maybe next time for me, good luck.

Salve,

Ti. Ulpius Pulcher


------------------------------

Lol!!! Is this entertainment free? ;)

Lol well we don't need to tax everything lol.  I was just wondering if I needed to bring more cash beyond what I was going to bet on. ;)

All right, the thread is started in the Egressus sub-forum, although
it may be moved - I wasn't quite sure whether it belonged there or in
the "off topic" section.



On 9/17/15, mahtezcatpoc@... [Nova-Roma]
<Nova-Roma@yahoogroups.com

Hello,


This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Nova-Roma
group.


File : /NovaRomaOnward.pdf
Uploaded by : reenbru <reenbru@... Description : Caesar and Sulla proposal for the separation between Nova Roma not for profit part and incorporated company for legal reason. It follows Nova Roma Reborn.


You can access this file at the URL:
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/Nova-Roma/files/NovaRomaOnward.pdf


To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398


Regards,


reenbru <reenbru@...

Still wait answer.