Ave,

Yes, that is what he has said.  That BN should be listed as a competing organization.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Ave,

Also keep in mind we still do not have board of directors insurance.  Thus our liability, as members of this board of directors is even more vital.  And for our European board members who think the laws of the eu will immunize your liability think again.  As I have been researching that little fact.  Ya'll are just as fiduciary liable as us Americans and Canadians.

Vale,

Sulla

Ave,

As reading this I have a quote swirling in my head.  Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

Vale,

Sulla

Salvete omnes!

Firstly, let me say that I know this is a highly contentious issue. There are arguments to be made for and against having an online forum for Nova Roma, but let me make an argument in favor of this, from a new citizen's perspective.

The Yahoo Groups/Mailing list model has clearly been fine for NR over the years, and I'm sure that a lot of the more senior members are fine with the way things work. However, for someone who is new to the Yahoo thing, this can be an insurmountable obstacle to getting involved and figuring everything out. I have heard from more than one new cives how this model is old and confusing, and they have a point. A web forum is so much more clean and polished, and much much more user-friendly. Everything is laid out in front of you on a forum, all organized in their own categories with an explanation of what is there right on the screen. Moving forward, this is a problem with the current model that will only get worse with time, as we try to acquire younger members who absolutely will not understand the way this works.

The special interest groups currently require hoops to be jumped through to join, and you can't access them right from your inbox. This is another barrier for new members and for activity within the groups. A forum on the other hand will display all the available groups on the forum home screen, again with a description of what it is about. 

My fellow citizens, this is all about removing the aforementioned barriers, plus some that I have not mentioned. Voting will be plain and simple either with polls that are easy to set up or with threads where people can simply post their vote. The governmental structure will be plainly explained. All current events will be in one easy to access place. No longer will senatorial debates of importance be clustered along with threads which do not pertain to them, freeing those involved of any clutter or off topic discussion, as well as keeping political debate out of the other topics and in one condensed location. The tribunes and aediles will have a space to address the plebs, the censors will have a place to conduct the census that is dedicated to that purpose. There is newsletter functionality in place, a private messaging system that is ready to go. I could go on and on, but you are intelligent people, and you get the idea.

Also do not fear for the wiki! Having a forum does not mean the end or obsolescence of the wiki site. It can be used to great affect in conjunction with the forum, such as links to each magistrate's wiki page in their forum profile, so that citizens can see their climb up the cursus honourum, links to the album cives and the provincial pages, which I think a wiki does better than a forum. Each plays on the other's strengths, all to the glory of Nova Roma. 

With all of this in mind, I humbly submit this labor which I have undertaken. 

http://novaroma.freeforums.org/

Please keep in mind that this is only a proof of concept. A framework if you will to give a visual representation of all of the things I have mentioned above. It is totally customizable, upgradeable, and can be fully controlled through the use of administrators or webmasters. Literally anything can be changed to suit our needs both now and moving into the future.

This is precisely the model that younger and new prospective citizens will be looking for, and it will hook them instantly. 

To the senior members of our res publica; I know you have concerns. Time constraints I know are a worry for you. But worry not! You can bookmark this page and remain logged in at all times. No fumbling with passwords. One click and you're in, always. I respectfully request that you peruse this labor, and see if you won't believe it to actually save you time in the end. 

I have done this because I believe in Nova Roma and it's goals. I badly want to see Nova Roma succeed and grow and become even more amazing than it already is. I am not forecasting an apocalypse for NR if we do not do this, however, I can guarantee you that this will help tremendously in the obtainment and keeping of new citizens, as well as an increase in activity for many of the areas currently laying dormant.

I know this is a long post, but I am passionate about this. I truly appreciate you all taking the time to read over my plea, and considering the idea even if you are in disagreement with it. I am totally open to any and all ideas or suggestions from the senate and people. I would offer my services to help build it should it be decided to implement this, or I would alternatively and gladly hand over the reigns of the site to whomever the senate and people see fit to build and run it.

Thank you again, my fellow citizens.

Vale et valete bene!
Gaius Cornelius Macer 

Ave,

In the senate I will be voting against the proposed sc.  The reason is simple I have long advocated for multiple communication platforms as long as the medium has a way of seamlessly cross communication.   In an effort to keep everyone informed.  For example, if a post is made on a message board that message must be transmitted not just to the board, but to the email list.  This way the widest reach is made to keep our citizens informed via the official fora of the organization.

If we can have a platform that does that, ill be all for adopting it to work in concert with our email lists. This way everyone can decide what communication platform works best for the citizen.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Ave,

I don't think that if the Senate doesn't adopt an official one that they will die....immediately. I hope that some of the constructive concerns that have been discussed will enable greater research to determine if there are fixes, if the adjustments need some kind of programming creation, or if the platform just does not meet our needs.

We should keep some perspective in an making drastic changes because it would be worse to make a poor decision that negatively impacts nr society.  I am reminded of a quote from Augustus, "hasten, slowly."

Vale,

Sulla

Avete omes,

If we could find a platform that meets the requirements that caeca mentioned below...and if that platform had a cost attached to it....I would absolutely consider that a worthwhile investment and would immediately seek to research the platform and work towards getting the costs allocated with approval by the senate.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Cassius do you remember back in 1998 and 1999 when nr had a message board and a chatroom. :)

The chatroom was a huge injection of life in early nr.  Quite frankly that would be a much stronger asset for nr.  To have real time conversations with multiple members live and basically face to face.

We should have a chatroom and restart our market day events.

Respectfully,

Sulla

Ave,

First, yes there are ways to back up and save our archived messages.  I paid Marcus octavius to back up the back alley about 5 years ago.  He also backed up the ml as well.  That can totally be done.  The follow up question is where to host that ever growing resource and creating a usable method of accessing the information based on many parameters such as author, subject, date, keywords and other options.  I think that can be done as well...though our it guys would be able to answer the specifics.

The old chatroom I was speaking of was a very simple web based chatroom.  I remember at first it only handled just text and when it was upgraded to accept HTML and action statements like Sulla is reading we were all giddy lol!

Vale,

Sulla

Good catch fabius I missed that part or i would have said much the same you said. :)

Vale,

Sulla

P. Porcius Licinus trib. quiritibus in foro s.p.d.

Yesterday, in my call for candidates for the Plebian Aedile and Tribune of the Plebs, I incorrectly reported that the auspices for this election were favorable.

In fact, no auspices have been taken.  My apologies to you all.

Since that announcement, two citizens have submitted their names to me, both wishing to stand for Tribune of the Plebs.

Optime vale!

P. Porcius Licinus, trib.

Ave Tribune:

I stand to be corrected, I have been out of the loop for a bit regarding comitia calls; but do you need auspices as a tribune,given your sacrosanctity?

Vale

Pompeia

CURATIO

Ave Roman Reenactors,

On Saturday, November 21, 2015, a religious docudrama on the life of the Christian Saint Thaddeus (1^st Century AD), is filming at Capernaum Village in Weatherford, Texas.  There is a need for Roman soldiers in particular, and perhaps others, as extras.  There is no pay, but it is an opportunity to appear in your Roman regalia on film.  If your regalia is Byzantine, you may also be needed.

As an aside, I cannot be there due to prior commitments in Houston.

If you are interested, please contact Josiah Missick at Josiah.missick@...

Vale optime,

Publius Quinctius Petrus Augustinus

Legatus pro Praetore, NR Province of Texia

Legatus Legionis, Legio XIII Gemina

Ave Pompeia,

The Lex Cornelia de ratione comitiorum centuriatorum and the Lex Cornelia de ratione comitiorum populi tributorum recommend, but do not require, that auspices be taken prior to an assembly of the Comitia Centuriata or the Comitia Populi Tributa, respectively.

The Lex Pompeia de ratione comitiorum plebis tributorum does not contain even a recommendation that auspices be sought prior to convening the Comitia Plebis Tributa.  Had I more experience in such matters, I would have sought the advice of the Augurs in a timely fashion.

Optime vale!

P. Porcius Licinus

P. Porcius Licinus trib. omibus in foro s.p.d.

The Senate of Nova Roma has issued two Senatus Consulta against which I must pronounce INTERCESSIO.  I will begin by presenting them to you:


1. SENATUS CONSULTUM ON THE APPLICATION PROCESS FOR CITIZENSHIP AND A COMPETING ORGANIZATION

I. The censors (acting in a collegiate manner or singly) shall not approve the grant of Nova Roman citizenship to a person, if that person at any time while not holding, Nova Roman citizenship was/is a member and/or participant, or is suspected and/or listed as being a member and/or participant within the records of the Senate of Nova Roma, of any organization that the Senate has deemed by any Senatus consultum to be a competing organization.

II. If the censors acting in a collegiate manner believe that mitigating circumstances exist to justify accepting such an application at I, then they shall request the consuls to include on the agenda of the next formal meeting of the Senate in session, and item concerning this application. The presiding magistrate of that session may include this matter on the agenda, and may put the item to the vote. In the event the matter is put to the vote a draft Senatus consultum shall be presented requesting the Senate to approve the application of the person at I.

III. In the event that the person at I making the application was, in addition to being a member and/or participant, or is suspected and/or listed as being a member and/or participant within the records of the Senate of Nova Roma, also a member of any Board of Directors, Senate, or any organizational body that serves the same or similar purpose of control and/or direction as a Board of Directors or Senate, then the Senatus consultum at II shall require an extraordinary majority in order to be successful. All other cases the Senatus consultum at II shall require a simple majority in order to be successful.

IV. Any failure on the part of the censors (acting in a collegiate manner or singly), whether accidental, negligent or deliberate to abide by the terms of this Senatus consultum, shall invalidate the process of application and regardless of whether the person at I was subsequently classified as a citizen, shall invalidate his/her citizenship, as that person shall not be a citizen of Nova Roma as a result of that failure.

V. Upon discovery of such a failure at IV, the censors (acting in a collegiate manner or singly) and/or consuls must immediately inform the person that he/she is not a citizen. Should that citizen have subsequently stood for election for any position within Nova Roma and been successful, or been appointed to any position, or reclaimed any position, such a position shall be automatically deemed vacant. The censors (acting in a collegiate manner or singly) must also immediately correct all censorial records to indicate that the person is not a citizen.

VI. In the event of such a failure as at IV, then the censors (acting in a collegiate manner or singly) may be deemed to be in contempt of the Senate if in the opinion of the princeps senatus such a failure was due to negligence or was deliberate. If the princeps senatus deems it to be contempt of the Senate, then he/she shall proceed to deal with the matter according to the process at section IX of the SENATUS CONSULTUM DE RATIONE SENATUS MMDCCLXV.

VII. The definitions provided at section I DEFINITIONS of the Senatus consultum de ratione senatus MMDCCLXV shall be applicable to deriving meaning of a word or phrase included in this Senatus consultum that also appears in that list of definitions.

VIII. The princeps senatus shall be the final authority on determining the meaning of any part of this Senatus consultum where such meaning is unclear to any member of the Senate, and/or to arbitrate in any dispute between members of the Senate over such meaning.

2. SENATUS CONSULTUM ON WARNINGS TO NEW OR RETURNING APPLICANTS FOR CITIZENSHIP

The Senate of Nova Roma establishes the following process for ensuring that new or returning applicants for Nova Roman citizenship are provided warnings prior to the grant of citizenship, concerning any organization that has been deemed by the Senate to be a “competing organization”.

I.           The censors shall create, and then subsequently maintain, a page on Nova Roma’s wiki / web page that lists the details of any organization that has been deemed to be a “competing organization”. The details shall include at a minimum the identification term for the organization used in the Senatus consultum that declared them competing. This typically, but not exclusively, is often the website URL for the organization. The censors shall include any other details that they feel are necessary to assist an applicant in correctly identifying the organization.

II.          Upon the enactment of this Senatus consultum, the Chief Information Officer of Nova Roma shall take steps to ensure that as soon as possible and practicable the Application for NOVA ROMAN Citizenship form is amended, and subsequently maintained, to include a check box, and immediately after that box the following text:

“I hereby affirm that I am not currently, nor have ever been, a member and/or participant of any competing organization that is listed on the page accessed through this hyperlink.”

Immediately following the text above the hyperlink referred to be included. This shall link to the page specified at I above. After the hyperlink the following text shall be included:

“IMPORTANT! Prior to affirming in the box provided above applicants MUST ensure they have accessed the hyperlink and read the contents of the page(s) it links to. Membership and/or participation in any of the competing organizations that are listed there MUST be disclosed.

Any failure on your part to disclose membership and/or participation (past or present) in these organizations will automatically invalidate your grant of citizenship and therefore regardless of how much time has elapsed between such a failure and its discovery, your Nova Roman citizenship will be automatically revoked, with no possibility of appeal.

Any applicant that is or has been a member and/or participant of one or more of the organizations listed, and who still wishes to apply for Nova Roman citizenship, after transmitting the application form WITHOUT checking the above box, should contact the censors by use of the email tool found here http://www.novaroma.org/bin/ contact . Applicants so doing should be prepared to answer questions that the censors may have for them regarding their membership and/or participation in any such organization. Please note that the censors may or may not support such an application, and even should they do so the matter must then be referred to the Senate of Nova Roma to make the final decision on your citizenship application.”

III.       The censors and censorial staff must ensure that any applicant who appears not to understand the text specified at II above has that text further explained in email. The emails of any applicant who contacts the censors or censorial staff with any issue pertaining to membership and/or participation in a competing organization must be copied and pasted into the applicant’s non-public censorial record that is generated by his/her application.

IV.        Any citizen who resigned his/her citizenship, or had that citizenship revoked by an appropriate Nova Roman authority, and who wishes to apply again MUST complete a fresh application form. That must be completed fully, as though the person had never held citizenship before, and must be completed using the full Nova Roman name citizenship was formerly held under immediately prior to resigning that citizenship, or having it revoked. Upon receipt of this new application the censors / censorial staff shall mark it as a duplicate and cross reference it to his/her former record, which shall continue to serve as the master censorial record.


I shall abbreviate these as follows:  The first as SC Citizenship Application, the second as SC Application Warning.

It seems to me that the author intended these SCs to go into effect at the time they were approved, and to not apply retroactively.  However, if one looks at SC Citizenship Application IV, there is no time limit on this.  Two Censores may diligently determine that a prospective citizen has no conflict of interest, and many years later, two more Censores may determine that they were in error.  A person may be a citizen in good standing, vote in our Comitia, hold office, then suddenly be cast out because the current Censores decide, rightly or wrongly, that he or she had previously been a member of a competing organization.

I searched indication that this could not be applied retroactively.  I could not find it.  I take my own case, that of a citizen who joined mere months after the Civil War concluded.  Although I can truthfully state that I am not nor have ever been a member of a competing organization, I can find nothing in this SC that would prevent a Censor from claiming falsely that I was or still am a member of a competing organization, and invalidating my citizenship.  And should I be the subject of such a false claim, I would have no rights to defend myself.  I would no longer be a citizen of Nova Roma, entitled to a proper defense.

I was contacted by a citizen who felt troubled by this law.  That person begged me to not use their name in this pronouncement, lest they be the target of ostracism in these forums.  I also considered that no action had been taken against this person, or against any other person, which would give me grounds to offer auxilium on their behalf.

But if this SC was to be used improperly to purge Nova Roma of a political faction, I may very well be the first to be designated improperly as a current or former member of a competing group, along with any other Tribune who would provide auxilium.  For that reason, it is my opinion that I cannot wait for the first abuse of this SC to take action, since that first abuse may well remove my ability to respond.

For these reasons, I designate myself, PUBLIUS PORCIUS LICINUS, as the citizen on behalf of whom I am interceding.  I will leave to the legal experts whether this consists of my acting ex-officio, or whether I am providing auxilium to myself.  This is an unusual situation prompted by an unusual act of the Senate.

6.  The right of provocatio; to appeal a decision of a magistrate that has a direct negative impact upon that citizen to the comitia populi tributa;

Here, there is no right of provocatio, since someone who is falsely found by a Censor to have been a member of a competing organization has their citizenship invalidated, with no right to appeal that decision.  As I have mentioned earlier, this determination is beyond even the power of a Tribune to provide assistance, as the citizenship of that person is immediately invalidated (SC Citizenship Application, IV and V).  Further, it may be abused to purge Nova Roma of any Tribune who is not in league with the Censores.

III.B.  The Comitia Centuriata (Assembly of Centuries) shall be made up of all of the citizens, grouped into their respective centuries. While it shall be called to order by either a consul or a praetor, only the comitia centuriata shall pass laws governing the rules by which it shall operate internally. It shall have the following powers:
3.  To try legal cases in which the defendant is subject to permanent removal of citizenship.

Here, the SC violates this article, as the citizenship is immediately invalidated, not removed according to law.  If a person is no longer a citizen, under what authority could the Comitia Centuriata be summoned to judge whether his citizenship should be removed?

The LEX DIDIA GEMINA DE POTESTATE TRIBUNICIA, II.A.1.c requires that I name the articles of the Constitution that have been violated.  There may be more, but I have named 5 separate articles, and surely that should be sufficient.

I am aware this pronouncement will generate much contention on our forums.  I humbly request that our Tribunes uphold this INTERCESSIO, and argue for it thus:

Many say that these SCs are necessary in order to protect the non-profit status of Nova Roma, and have invoked the specter of the IRS revoking that status.  I respectfully disagree, as here is what the IRS has to say about such matters:

All may read the entire IRS document at this URL:  https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-tege/governance_practices.pdf   Nowhere in it will you find references to rank and file membership.  The IRS is concerned with whether or not directors and officers, specifically those with control over the agency's finances, have conflicts of interest.  For Nova Roma, this is our Senate, our CFO, and possibly some of our magistrates.  One could argue that the IRS has no interest even in magistrates who have no power over financial matters, and no power to spend money, let alone the membership.

Also note that the IRS is not merely concerned with "competing organizations", but with any relationship that threatens a director's loyalty.  For example, Nova Roma has a SENATUS CONSULTUM ON CONFICTS OF INTEREST that finds a Senator to be in contempt if he or she is found to be on the Board of Directors or Senate of a competing organization, but no Lex or Senatus Consultum requiring a Senator to declare whether he is part owner of the printing business he suggests to the Senate for printing Nova Roma T-shirts.  This is a greater loophole, one that the IRS really cares about, rather than whether any member ever was a member of a competing organization.  These two SCs apply yet another layer of boards to the a small door in the barn that a horse couldn't possibly fit through, while the back door of the barn is wide open and the horse is planning his escape.

Another argument in favor of these SCs is that it would be unfair to allow someone to become a member, only for that member to find that he was ineligible to serve as a magistrate or Senator.  Yet this is not the case, either.  The IRS is not concerned with past relationships so long as they are truly in the past.  If a change to our laws is needed, it is a change to the LEX CORNELIA DE CURSU HONORUM and to the LEX POMPEIA DE CURSU HONORUM, declaring that the absence of conflicts of interest are a requirement for our magistracies, and leaving to the candidate the decision of whether to resign from any competing organizations before declaring his candidacy or suffering the ignominy of being declared ineligible to run by those magistrates conducting the election.  Neither of those changes would violate our Constitution as these SCs have, and would do a better job of getting Nova Roma's ethical house in order.

These SCs are unnecessary.  These SCs do not correct any problem that has not already been addressed in a different Lex or SC.  These SCs violate at least 4 provisions of our Constitution and probably violate a fifth.  They give a ready tool to a future Nova Roman tyrant, a sword to dangle over all our heads, the ability to swing a blow that no Tribune may block and that the Comitia Centuriata may not undo.

I urge my fellow Tribunes to uphold this INTERCESSIO.

Di vos incolumes custodiant!

Di Novam Romam incolumem custodiant!

PUBLIUS PORCIUS LICINUS, TIBUNUS PLEBIS